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Speaker 2: match for details. Very difficult to keep the line between

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Speaker 2: the past and press.

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Speaker 3: You believe that someone out of the past can enter

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Speaker 3: to take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 4: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 4: is not through with us. Welcome back to the next

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Speaker 4: Picture Show a movie the Week podcast to a classic

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Speaker 4: film the way it shaped our thoughts on a recent release.

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Speaker 4: I'm Scott to buyas Here again.

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Speaker 1: With Keith Pepps and Tasha Robinson.

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Speaker 4: In our last episode, we discussed a History of Violence,

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Speaker 4: David Cronenberg's unconventional thriller about a Midwestern marriage that's thrown

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Speaker 4: into turmoil when the husband's dark past suddenly resurfaces. There's

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Speaker 4: a similar form of upheaval at play in Christopher Borgley's

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Speaker 4: provocative new movie, The Drama, but the violence is more

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Speaker 4: theoretical and the turmoil happens before the central characters are

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Speaker 4: even married. Now, at this point, I will be revealing

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Speaker 4: the premise of the drama, which the distributor A twenty

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Speaker 4: four tried very hard to keep under wraps, resulting in

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Speaker 4: a lot of creative reviews that talked around the most

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Speaker 4: basic aspects of the film. We are a spoiler podcast anyway,

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Speaker 4: but if you really want to go into the film blind,

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Speaker 4: as A twenty four intended, then I'd peace out now

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Speaker 4: and listen later. I will now pause for three seconds

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Speaker 4: for you to do that one, two, three, Oh, welcome

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Speaker 4: everyone who's decided to stay okay.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 4: In this film, Zendeia and Robert Patsons star as Emma

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Speaker 4: and Charlie, a happy couple making a round of last

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Speaker 4: minute choices before their wedding. One night, when they're at

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Speaker 4: a wine soaked tasting with their friends Mike played by

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Speaker 4: mamadu Atcha and Rachel played by Alanahim, who are also

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Speaker 4: serving as their best man and maid of honor, they

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Speaker 4: play an ill advised game of what's the worst thing

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Speaker 4: You've ever done? When the prompt finally comes around to Emma,

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Speaker 4: she on corks a doozy of an answer. As a

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Speaker 4: teenager she wants planned and nearly carried out a school shooting.

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Speaker 4: That revelation immediately angers Rachel, who's related to a shooting survivor,

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Speaker 4: and it doesn't sit well with Charlie either. He wonders

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Speaker 4: if he's missed some fundamental truth about his fiance and

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Speaker 4: if some part of that troubled, dangerous girl still exists

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Speaker 4: within her. Borgley plays it for unsettling domestic drama and

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Speaker 4: edgy black comedy. We'll see how much the movie bothered

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Speaker 4: us after the.

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Speaker 5: Break this summer, serve up the cookout classics, oscar Meyer

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Speaker 5: hot dogs and Hines mustard. Grill up a dog, add

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Speaker 5: classic yellow mustard or loaded Chicago style. We all know

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Speaker 5: it's not a cookout without oscar Meyer and Hines.

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Speaker 4: All right, So before we got married, we did this

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Speaker 4: thing where we said the worst thing we've ever done?

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Speaker 3: I'll tell mine if we all do it.

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Speaker 1: Promise, what did you do?

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Speaker 3: This dog?

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Speaker 6: Beer bottles and porn left.

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Speaker 1: An arab and eye? Yeah, what's the worst thing I've

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Speaker 1: ever dog?

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Speaker 6: Okay, I.

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Speaker 1: Are you serious?

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry?

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry?

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Speaker 6: I order what the am? I sentence of nerves?

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Speaker 1: Remember you know each other really well.

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Speaker 6: You have to stop thinking about it, So you are thinking, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Thinking about it now?

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Speaker 6: How can you even trust her?

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Speaker 4: Credible?

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Speaker 6: I never said he was mentally diseased?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Did you said he was slow?

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Speaker 3: He said he was slow?

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Speaker 4: So I am dying to know what you think of

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Speaker 4: the drama. And I think I had a little bit

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Speaker 4: of chatter with Keith about this already, So I wanted

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Speaker 4: to throw this to Tasha first. Tasha, hit us with

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Speaker 4: your thoughts on the drama?

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Speaker 3: What'd you think I liked?

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Speaker 6: It a fair bit. It was definitely Had Me and

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Speaker 6: Lost Me, Had Me and Lost Me a kind of

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Speaker 6: movie in some ways, Uh huh. Some of the things

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Speaker 6: that happen maybe kind of roll my eyes or say,

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Speaker 6: I don't even know what this is pretending to be

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Speaker 6: saying about about people or reality or relationships. But I

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Speaker 6: really like the acting here. Some of the beats did

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Speaker 6: really land with me, and I can't say that I

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Speaker 6: was unmoved. One of the things I really like is

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Speaker 6: a movie that makes me feel something, and this is

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Speaker 6: one of the movies. I said afterwards to my husband,

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Speaker 6: the non recycler of toilet paper, cardboard roles, that I

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Speaker 6: was just really glad that he was there, that we

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Speaker 6: saw it together, because it's a kind of movie that

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Speaker 6: you maybe feel a little weird about recommending to people,

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Speaker 6: but you really want to discuss it with them afterwards.

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Speaker 6: I really loved the final scene, so I felt like

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Speaker 6: I went out on kind of a high point of

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Speaker 6: like empathy for and attraction to the movie. I do

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Speaker 6: wonder how it's going to kind of settle for me

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Speaker 6: long term, but I definitely walked out of the movie

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Speaker 6: with a strong set of emotions and a desire to

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Speaker 6: discuss it, and like so did everybody else in the theater.

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Speaker 6: It's been a while since at any setting other than

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Speaker 6: a film festival, I've seen like a theater for the

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Speaker 6: people just pour out into the lobby, immediately stand together

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Speaker 6: in groups and just start like energetically discussing their big

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Speaker 6: emotions about what they just experienced. And I loved that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the movie too. Even a term highware

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Speaker 1: act in the previous episode to refer to a scene

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Speaker 1: in History of Files. I think this whole movie is

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Speaker 1: kind of a highware act. I don't think it necessarily

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Speaker 1: successfully gets all the way to the other side. I

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Speaker 1: think that the acting and the humor are really help

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Speaker 1: a lot, and I do love that that final scene

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Speaker 1: and just Sindia and Pattinson together are really good. A

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Speaker 1: lot of the criticism misgivings I was feeling that are

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Speaker 1: a little like half formed. I think I think have

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Speaker 1: kind of come to light when others criticize the film,

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Speaker 1: which I don't think it's insensitive about school shootings, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's really prepared to interrogate them all

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Speaker 1: that much. It is ultimately kind of a device in

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Speaker 1: some ways, and the criticism I know that our friend

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Speaker 1: Angelica Jade Bastian has talked about how you know, Castings

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Speaker 1: and Dayah as a black woman who might have been

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Speaker 1: a school shooter without really getting deep at all into

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Speaker 1: gender and like not really mentioning race at all, if

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Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, feels a little a little shallow. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's there's a lot to talk

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Speaker 1: about here. I've been looking forward to talking about this

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Speaker 1: film since then. I think ultimately that's a sign of

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Speaker 1: it being a fairly successful film overall.

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Speaker 6: Even if what we most want to discuss is ways

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Speaker 6: in which it's it's shallow or vapid about like a

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Speaker 6: very important thing.

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Speaker 1: I guess I could talk about like a lot of

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Speaker 1: things I liked about it too. I mean, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, the actual revelation team has played really well.

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Speaker 1: The fact sequence there's there's whole kinds of complications here,

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Speaker 1: like the fact that that Alana Heim's character Emma what

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Speaker 1: she actually did do. I think it's probably far worse

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Speaker 1: than you know, anything that's never that is contemplated but

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Speaker 1: not but not done, and like never really has taking

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Speaker 1: responsibility for that, And even Pattinson's character Charlie, his confession

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Speaker 1: of cyberbullying someone so much so badly they had to

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Speaker 1: move is almost kind of like, oh, kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like that's a really bad thing to have done,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, if you were just a teenager

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Speaker 1: at the time, that at.

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Speaker 6: Least is very deliberate, I think on Borgley's part, because

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Speaker 6: one of the things we get is the other couple

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Speaker 6: saying like you were fifteen, like your brain wasn't fully formed,

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Speaker 6: like you're not really an adult, Like when you make

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Speaker 6: decisions that they that age, it's no big deal, and

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Speaker 6: then they will not extend any of the same like

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Speaker 6: justification to Zindia's character, who was also fifteen, and I like,

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Speaker 6: the movie doesn't have to say to me, this is

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Speaker 6: different because you are a woman and black for me

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Speaker 6: to see, like the symbolism of handing a white guy

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Speaker 6: who did something abominable an instant comforting out while just

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Speaker 6: completely coming down on the head of a black woman

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Speaker 6: who didn't actually do the thing. I think that that

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Speaker 6: I don't know. I mean, yes, this movie needed to

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Speaker 6: interrogate a lot of these ideas a lot better in

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Speaker 6: a lot of ways, But when it comes to not

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Speaker 6: like openly spelling out and explaining the discrepancy between men

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Speaker 6: and women and how they're treated, and black people and

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Speaker 6: white people and how they're treated. I think it's very

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Speaker 6: very much there and very obvious without being spelled out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's fair. And

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Speaker 1: then there's a lotso a lot. I think the more

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Speaker 1: you talk about it, the more you think about it,

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Speaker 1: the more the more complexities. There are things like the

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Speaker 1: fact that that Emma is completely ready to fire their

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Speaker 1: DJ because she thinks she saw her smoking heroin. And

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Speaker 1: my thought was like, well, even if she was, that's

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Speaker 1: not going to interfere with your DJ gig. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of like her problem to deal with, not yours. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: nothing thing that means you brought up in this way,

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Speaker 1: but everyone this character is very messy and very thorny

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Speaker 1: in a way that I think I wouldn't mind see

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Speaker 1: you again to kind of revisit some of this this stuff.

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Speaker 3: I think the.

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Speaker 4: School shooting part of it is a little bit wonky,

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Speaker 4: and it was something it was really one of the

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Speaker 4: things that I had trouble getting around, which is hard

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Speaker 4: because that is, you know, the premise of the movie.

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Speaker 4: But I think that it's treated as an issue as

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Speaker 4: an abstraction, right, you know that in just like a

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Speaker 4: thought exercise that that we then have to that we

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Speaker 4: spend then the rest of the movie going through. And

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Speaker 4: of course it's just not but of course you know,

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Speaker 4: in order to get us that thought exercise, you have

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Speaker 4: to justify it through the drama and through I think

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Speaker 4: flashbacks that are really unpersuasive in trying to account for

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Speaker 4: her state of mind at this point in time, and

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Speaker 4: all that stuff felt really contrived, and and I just

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Speaker 4: I didn't not believe. I don't know if it's this

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Speaker 4: is Zenda as an actress or they're writing of this character,

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Speaker 4: but I simply just did not believe that this person

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Speaker 4: was in such a state. The film just didn't sell

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Speaker 4: me on that at all. But at the same time,

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Speaker 4: one of the things I really liked about the movie

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Speaker 4: is that it just stayed in the mud and it

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Speaker 4: takes this premise and it works it in every which

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Speaker 4: possible way and from every angle. And you do have

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Speaker 4: like that DJ angle that you mentioned, I mean, there's

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Speaker 4: just so many. It squeezes all the all the all

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Speaker 4: the juice out of the lemon I think here, and

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Speaker 4: it keeps you on edge the whole time. You know,

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Speaker 4: you say it's it's a high wire act, and I

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Speaker 4: guess there's like the netting at the bottom of the

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Speaker 4: high wire where you where you fall and then maybe

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Speaker 4: you bounce, you bounce back up onto the high wire

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Speaker 4: that you fall again. It's a little unsteady, but just

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Speaker 4: like that metaphor, very unsteady, but it's effective and it's

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Speaker 4: a it's a real experience. It is kind of a

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Speaker 4: fun it's you know, I may talk about it as

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Speaker 4: a as a abstract sort of thought exercise of a movie,

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Speaker 4: but that is a lot of someone makes it kind

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Speaker 4: of lively.

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Speaker 3: And I think also the fact that the film is

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Speaker 3: as funny as it is.

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Speaker 4: That helps a lot to kind of bring this whole

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Speaker 4: thing across into because I think if we're just ruminating

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Speaker 4: on the you know, if we're just staying in the

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Speaker 4: darkness here and not really seeing, you know, the humor

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Speaker 4: and absurdity of this situation, I think this would been

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Speaker 4: would have been a much lesser film.

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Speaker 1: But the school shotting stuff too. I think filmmakers from

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Speaker 1: other countries are so baffled by America's relationship with guns

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Speaker 1: that they kind of have a hard time figuring out

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Speaker 1: ways to dramatize it or explore it. There's this movie,

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Speaker 1: one of Thomas Vidderberg's movies he made after the celebration

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Speaker 1: is this movie called Dear Wendy, which is written by

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Speaker 1: Large von Trier, and it's just sort of like the

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Speaker 1: most baffling, uninformed take on on on guns in America

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Speaker 1: that you can imagine. This isn't that, but I do

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Speaker 1: really think that that like we're just swimming in this

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Speaker 1: in this gun culture all the time, which is I

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Speaker 1: think that's a bad thing. But I think there's a

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Speaker 1: way that like from the out, looking at it from

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Speaker 1: the outside, that it's just kind of a baffling situation

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Speaker 1: to even start to talk about if you're if you're

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Speaker 1: not an American filmmaker. With all all due respect to

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Speaker 1: to Bortley, who I think made a good film, but

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Speaker 1: is there is an odd element to it.

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Speaker 6: Scott, you mentioned that you didn't find the flashbacks convincing,

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Speaker 6: and maybe it's Zundiaz an actor, but the actor portraying

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Speaker 6: the younger version of her is a different person. Was

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Speaker 6: the tripping point for you. I mean you you sort

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Speaker 6: of theorize that it might be performance or it might

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Speaker 6: be something else. Can you pin down what it is

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Speaker 6: about those flashbacks?

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Speaker 3: I guess it wasn't clear, because you're right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, when you're talking about the flashbacks, you're you're

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Speaker 4: talking about a different actress. And I think, I guess

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Speaker 4: maybe what I was trying to say is that, you know,

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Speaker 4: as we see Emma now, it's thoroughly unsuggestive on persuasive

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Speaker 4: of somebody who could have once been this teenager. And

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Speaker 4: I guess, and I don't feel like the flashbacks are

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Speaker 4: enough to really.

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Speaker 3: Convince us that she was once this person. It feels,

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Speaker 3: like I said, contrived.

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Speaker 1: I do really like the scenes Patson's character kind of

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Speaker 1: imagining and walking around Boston with the teenage version of

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Speaker 1: his fiance. I think that's a really well executed device.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. I wanted to talk about the style specifically of

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Speaker 6: sort of the rhetorical mental device that this movie uses,

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Speaker 6: which both taps into you know, the flashbacks and the

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Speaker 6: other actress and into the humor, so kind of like

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Speaker 6: bridging two different aspects here. One of the things Borgy

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Speaker 6: does from time to time, and not a lot it's

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Speaker 6: very lightly sprinkled through, is show us somebody's imagination of

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Speaker 6: kind of an emotional response to something and then snap

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Speaker 6: back to you know, in a but that was all

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Speaker 6: a dream kind of way. My favorite of those is

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Speaker 6: Zandia's character Emma imagining her fiance say like going to

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Speaker 6: his best friend Mike after what was the worst thing

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Speaker 6: you ever did? Conversation and saying like, obviously I've got

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Speaker 6: to go, and Mike saying, yes, just get on a plane,

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Speaker 6: go back to London, don't even pack. I will take

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Speaker 6: care of this. Whatever you need. I will go over

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Speaker 6: to her place and beat her up if you need me,

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Speaker 6: if that's what you need. And it's just kind of

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Speaker 6: like a moment that starts off alarming and turns completely absurd,

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Speaker 6: and then we snap back to her to realize this

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Speaker 6: is her catastrophizing in very silly ways. We get a

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Speaker 6: lot of those little moments of somebody having a weird

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Speaker 6: flight of fancy that's meant to express an emotional state.

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Speaker 6: And the escorting the teenage girl a version of her

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Speaker 6: around instead of the version he knows is another expression

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Speaker 6: of that that I really like, But at other times

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Speaker 6: I did kind of feel like that device was a

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Speaker 6: little cheesy in a horror movie, it was all a

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Speaker 6: dream kind of way. I don't know, what did you

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Speaker 6: What did you guys think of that gimmick?

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Speaker 1: I guess I think it mostly worked. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: also kind of confined to the middle part of the movie,

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Speaker 1: unless I'm misremembering, so it kind of like has its

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Speaker 1: moment and then it's.

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Speaker 4: A little like the whole the film overall, it feels

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Speaker 4: very choppy, you know, and again in a way that's

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Speaker 4: not necessarily it's almost content with being as imperfect as

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Speaker 4: it is.

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Speaker 3: It's like part of it.

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Speaker 4: It's just like this film full of jagged edges that

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Speaker 4: don't quite fit together, and you just kind of have

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Speaker 4: to live with it, live within it. So what I

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Speaker 4: end up what I end up doing when I is

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Speaker 4: almost taking the sum of all the things I liked

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Speaker 4: and the things I didn't like about the movie and

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Speaker 4: weighing them against each other, and then that that ended

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Speaker 4: up and with me, mostly it's like listening of having

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Speaker 4: a pros and cons list and then ultimately coming up

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Speaker 4: pro on it because I think the scenes, there's just

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Speaker 4: individual scenes and moments in the film that I really

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Speaker 4: liked a lot and would not want to have thrown away.

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Speaker 4: And I'm actually kind of curious if you had that

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Speaker 4: same reaction if you did, if there was any one

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Speaker 4: scene that stood out to you as being like, man,

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Speaker 4: that was a great scene that really kind of just

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Speaker 4: hummed and made this movie work.

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Speaker 6: I mean that the final scene. For me, As I

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Speaker 6: said earlier, I do think I took it exactly the

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Speaker 6: same way you did in terms of kind of like

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Speaker 6: averaging a bunch of highs and lows and ending up

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Speaker 6: above the line. Unliked it. But I think if one

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Speaker 6: of the scenes that I liked most in the movie

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Speaker 6: had been buried in the middle somewhere instead of the

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Speaker 6: final scene, I might have walked out at the end

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Speaker 6: with a less positive view than I actually did.

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Speaker 4: The scene that really stood out for me is the

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Speaker 4: scene between Charlie and his coworker when he asks her,

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Speaker 4: really poses a hypothetical to her and puts her at

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Speaker 4: a pretty awkward spot, and then they have this very

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Speaker 4: messed up, you know, so of encounter in the office

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Speaker 4: that kind of comes comes back later. But I found

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Speaker 4: that initial scene of him posing that question to her

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Speaker 4: and her response to it to be fantastic scene because

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Speaker 4: it's just him trying to sort out his feelings about

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Speaker 4: everything and then just making an absolute mess of the

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Speaker 4: situation to doing so. I thought that was really surprising

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Speaker 4: and fun.

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Speaker 1: But it also kind of started to lose me. The

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Speaker 1: next scene, like the sort of the awkward pass whatever

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Speaker 1: like be thwarted. Yeah, that kind of to me that

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Speaker 1: played as like an attempt to like bring Charlie down

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Speaker 1: to Emma's level or like, you know, give him a

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Speaker 1: flaw to deal with too, you know, And that kind

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Speaker 1: of that kind of lost me for a while. And

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Speaker 1: and and and as I inventually I appreciate the awkwardness

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Speaker 1: of the wedding scene, the way that kind of played out,

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Speaker 1: just it just felt like a little too contrived for me.

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Speaker 1: But again, you know.

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Speaker 4: Which wedding scene just went back when she's back, when

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Speaker 4: they're back in the office together where he.

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Speaker 1: Is dealing with the possible exposure of his putting the

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Speaker 1: moves on his coworker Misha played played by Haley.

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Speaker 6: Gates, which he expresses in just the worst way possible.

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Speaker 6: I mean, there's there is a lot that happens in

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Speaker 6: this movie that makes me like deeply, deeply dislike Charlie

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Speaker 6: and kind of how he handles every single bit of

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Speaker 6: his sort of conversation slash pass slash follow up at

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Speaker 6: the wedding with Misha is kind of the top layer

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Speaker 6: on that cake. He's just awful. He's awful in a

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Speaker 6: lot of ways. But I think one of the things

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Speaker 6: they're trying to portray is is just how confused he

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Speaker 6: is and how bad he is at dealing with his

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Speaker 6: own emotions. It seems like or maybe other people's, but

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Speaker 6: that moment at the wedding where he's like, I you know,

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Speaker 6: I didn't mean to do it, and certainly now with

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Speaker 6: her in just the most you know, insulting way imaginable.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there's a thing where it's like, I mean,

388
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Speaker 4: I is this really something you can't get past?

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Speaker 3: I mean, like, because you know this is this is

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Speaker 3: we're talking.

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Speaker 4: About something she didn't do in the past, and not

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Speaker 4: only didn't do, but then but then turned into an

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Speaker 4: anti violence, anti gun activist and then became and then

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Speaker 4: continue to evolve into somebody that he obviously found appealing

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Speaker 4: enough to be a life partner. It just feels like

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Speaker 4: there is sort of this could have been an email

397
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Speaker 4: aspect aspect to the thing where it's like, if you

398
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Speaker 4: could just have a conversation like adults, you know this

399
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Speaker 4: all could be sorted out, because you know, the notion

400
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Speaker 4: that that because maybe sometimes she walks around the house

401
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Speaker 4: with a kitchen knife, that she's some kind of threat.

402
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 4: I again, it feels a little contrived. It's just this

403
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 4: movie is all over the map. But then I think

404
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Speaker 4: about that, I think, but think about a little grace

405
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Speaker 4: note like the second dj I.

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Speaker 3: Note that.

407
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Speaker 4: It's like it's like that's a wonderful touch, you know,

408
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Speaker 4: I just I it's really some kind of experience this movie,

409
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Speaker 4: and and part of it you kind of resent Borgley

410
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Speaker 4: for being kind of a button pusher, you know, this

411
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Speaker 4: is this is a movie that does that just kind

412
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Speaker 4: of pushes buttons. But but some of those soul so

413
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Speaker 4: of those buttons are pretty cool. I like those buttons.

414
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Speaker 4: So I don't even know. I don't know what. I

415
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Speaker 4: don't know. Again, it's it's a sum.

416
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Speaker 3: It's this.

417
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Speaker 4: You know, the best stuff is better than the combined,

418
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Speaker 4: is better than the worst stuff combined.

419
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Speaker 3: And there's that's the movie. I think.

420
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Speaker 1: Ultimately, Zinda really makes a character that I think is

421
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Speaker 1: a little underwritten, convincing as a as a flesh and

422
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Speaker 1: blood person too. I mean, the acting really does I

423
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Speaker 1: elevate every everything here.

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Speaker 6: I think to some degree, Emma is supposed to give

425
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Speaker 6: us a little bit of that same opacity that I

426
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Speaker 6: called out in the History of Violence for Tom, like

427
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Speaker 6: we're not necessarily supposed to know one hundred percent of

428
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Speaker 6: what's going on behind her eyes, whereas Charlie gets it

429
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Speaker 6: all out there at all times. I mean, the deep

430
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Speaker 6: awkwardness of the what would you do if your current

431
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Speaker 6: boyfriend had planned a school shooting conversation, the fact that

432
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Speaker 6: you can't resist dumping that everything he says at the

433
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Speaker 6: wedding when we're talking about the comedy of this movie,

434
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Speaker 6: the translation of the speech we see him delivering to

435
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Speaker 6: Mike at the beginning into the version of it, like

436
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Speaker 6: the drunken, nervous version he gives at the end, where

437
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 6: you can see a one to one relationship between everything

438
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Speaker 6: he meant to say and the garbage falling out of

439
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Speaker 6: his mouth. I think that's hilarious.

440
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Speaker 3: But he just.

441
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 6: Can't seem to constrain himself. The conversation that he has

442
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 6: with Mike and Rachel in her office, where all he

443
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 6: needed to say was we've had a lot of conversations

444
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 6: about this. I now understand better where she was coming

445
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 6: from and I came to terms with it. And then

446
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 6: when Rachel starts asking specific questions, what he should be

447
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 6: saying at that point is that's private. It was stuff

448
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 6: told to me in confidence, and you know, maybe you

449
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 6: shouldn't have started this all in the first place. Maybe

450
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 6: he shouldn't have said that second part. But instead he

451
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 6: just he gets, you know, overflow of the mouth and

452
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 6: starts telling them stuff that isn't true, stuff that he's

453
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 6: making up, stuff that they don't have any right to

454
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 6: know in the first place. Charlie's a mess and a

455
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 6: bit of a monster, and I did kind of hope

456
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 6: that this movie would not end up with them together.

457
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 6: But I mean, kind of, much like History of Violence,

458
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 6: it does sort of end in a place where we

459
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 6: were not one hundred percent sure what is next now

460
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 6: that all of these these buried sequence of them.

461
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 3: I completely don't agree with you at the end of again,

462
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 3: really okay, So I think it's kind of I think

463
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,479
Speaker 3: it's just a happy ending. Well, they figure, I think

464
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 3: they've they've come. I think they've come.

465
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 4: I think they've come to a place where they've they've

466
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 4: figured things out and they want they've decided to be

467
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 4: together and they've gotten past this little hiccup of the relationship.

468
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 6: Oh Scott, my god, Scott.

469
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true. It's true. That's where I stand on

470
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 4: the end the end of the movie. So yeah, we're

471
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 4: not on the same page.

472
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 6: So draw as given that this is not a video podcast,

473
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 6: people cannot see the fact that we were having some

474
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 6: technical glitches and we had you turn your camera off

475
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 6: and your avatar is what's the name of the character

476
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 6: from audition.

477
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 4: The character from I don't remember, but yet she at

478
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 4: this moment is has revealed herself to be somewhat of

479
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 4: a threat to.

480
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 6: The She's holding up a needlework. I'm just saying, one

481
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 6: of your favorite movies of all time is horrifically gauntlet

482
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 6: like horror movie involving lengthy scenes of torture and mutilation.

483
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 6: The idea that you can love horrifically violence movies as

484
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 6: much as you do and yet still be like such

485
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 6: a cute, soft cream puff of a naive person is

486
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 6: amazing to me.

487
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: I mean, this is about this whole thing is about

488
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 3: working through their issues. Here, Tasha and they.

489
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 4: Arrive quite literally at a place, at a place where

490
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 4: they can bury the hatchet. They can resolve their differences

491
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 4: where they can move forward.

492
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: Can be the.

493
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 6: Tiebreaker only if I get to ask a rhetorical question afterwards.

494
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 3: I think it's happen.

495
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: I don't think it's relationship without difficulties going forward, but

496
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: I think that this is them getting past that moment

497
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: and starting over.

498
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 6: Okay, so then my question is not just for Scott,

499
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 6: for both of you. Is the ending of eternal sunshine

500
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 6: of the Spotless mind? Is the point of that ending

501
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 6: to the two of you? They've gotten past all of

502
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 6: their issues and this time the relationship is going to

503
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 6: be perfect and they're going to live happily ever after

504
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 6: because they've been given a new chance, a new opportunity.

505
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 4: Oh no, but these are Apple, These are different agendas though.

506
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 4: These movies, like Internal Sunshine is a movie about how

507
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 4: the accumulation of experiences we have, even even the relationships

508
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 4: that don't work, have value. I don't feel like that's

509
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 4: really what's what's happening at all.

510
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 3: The drama.

511
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 4: The drama is really, you know, about some turmoil in

512
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 4: the lead up to a marriage that is ultimately confronted

513
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 4: and resolved resolved.

514
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 6: Okay, No, just absolutely no, no, Charlie is still the

515
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 6: same guy he was like twelve hours earlier. I mean,

516
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 6: Emma has been trying to get him to move on

517
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 6: for most of the movie, and he's he's just he's incapable.

518
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 6: He's he's still the same guy he was, and they're

519
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,239
Speaker 6: going to try again, and she's giving him grace and

520
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 6: she's she's saying, like, no matter how badly you screwed

521
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 6: this up, which is immensely, let's try again. But he's

522
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 6: he's still going to be the same person later that day,

523
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 6: He's still going to be the same person that obsessed

524
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 6: about all of these things and wouldn't let it go

525
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 6: and act it out in these horrible ways. Like I

526
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 6: don't know. They may have a chance and they may not, But.

527
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 4: You don't think this is a movie about people with

528
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 4: a capacity for change. Tasha, she was she was going

529
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 4: to kill all her classmates, and now she's now, she's

530
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 4: perfectly Now she seems like.

531
00:26:58,600 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 3: A normal person.

532
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, change, they can learn, they can learn from they

533
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 4: can learn from their mistakes.

534
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 6: But he can't accept that she's changed. He can't accept

535
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 6: that the vision of her that he has is not

536
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 6: as complex as the actual person. I mean, what is

537
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 6: it then?

538
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 3: What does he just walk out at the end. Why

539
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 3: does he stay with her? Then?

540
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 6: I mean he he made tomorrow. But at no point

541
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 6: during all this this whole process, did he try to

542
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 6: did he did he try to walk away? I mean

543
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 6: he maybe tries to sabotage the relationship and in half

544
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 6: a dozen different ways. But Charlie is a wuss, like

545
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 6: that's That's something that we see over and over and over.

546
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 6: He's he's non confrontational, you know. He when when they

547
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 6: go in to confront the DJ with we saw you

548
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 6: smoking heroin Emma's just talking to her, he curls up

549
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 6: in a chair and won't make eye contact, like he

550
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 6: just very clearly doesn't want to be there. When Rachel

551
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 6: is going after her during that conversation for come out

552
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 6: and admitting something that Rachel goaded her into and wouldn't

553
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 6: let her back down from. He's not defending her, you

554
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 6: know it. Just so many things happened through this movie

555
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 6: that show he's non confrontational and doesn't know what to

556
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 6: do in a crisis and doesn't have his fiances back

557
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 6: in so many ways. I don't know. I think she's

558
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 6: being very generous to offer to start over, but I

559
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 6: think at the end of the day, he's still the

560
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 6: same person.

561
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: It'll be fine.

562
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 3: I love I Love Taja.

563
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 4: That we've we've come across these two movies that we

564
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 4: basically are on the same page on in terms of

565
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 4: in terms of how much we like them. But then

566
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 4: we've found all these extreme, extreme points of disagreement. But

567
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 4: now that I have mentioned the other film, I think

568
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 4: maybe actually it's time to take a pause here and

569
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 4: bring history of violence back in the discussion when we

570
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 4: get to connections.

571
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 3: So let's do that.

572
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: The Next Picture Show is presented by Regal Unlimited. The

573
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: all you can watch movie subscription pass pays for itself

574
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: in just two visits. You know, at some point we

575
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576
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577
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578
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579
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580
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582
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583
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584
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587
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588
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Speaker 1: alcoholic concessions. Again, that pace for itself with just two

589
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Speaker 1: trips to the movies at least. When it comes to

590
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591
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592
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593
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594
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595
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: What's better than that? And I'm being serious? Is no funny? No,

596
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: I agree with you. This is not funny at all.

597
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 6: It's very serious.

598
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,719
Speaker 4: Now it's time for connections when we bring these two

599
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 4: films together and talk about all the things they have

600
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 4: in common. History of violence and the drama. Tasha, what's

601
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 4: the first thing that comes to your mind here?

602
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 6: Well, the thing in the drama that I feel like. Honestly,

603
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 6: we could do a commentary track on the drama when

604
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 6: it comes out, because just beat for seen, for seeing,

605
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 6: there's so much to unpack and the scene we maybe

606
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 6: unpacked least that feels like it needs the most unpacking,

607
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 6: And also one of the best scenes in the movie,

608
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 6: I would say, in kind of very Dogma ninety five way,

609
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 6: is the scene where Rachel goades everybody into explaining the

610
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 6: worst thing they've ever done, and just kind of moment

611
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 6: for a moment, that scene is about her just refusing

612
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 6: to let it go. She outs Mike for something. He's like,

613
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 6: we promised we would never tell anybody else these things,

614
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 6: and she bullies him into into giving it away anyway.

615
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 6: She tries to bully people out of the worst thing

616
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 6: she ever did. She then, you know, bullies Charlie and

617
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 6: into participating in these things they don't want to participate in.

618
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 6: And then she won't let it go. She and Charlie

619
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 6: both won't let it go. And so much of the

620
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 6: action is Emma saying, can we focus on the wedding?

621
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 6: Can we move past this? It's all in the past,

622
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 6: it's all done, and just these two people harping and

623
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,479
Speaker 6: harping and harping because they can't get over it. What

624
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 6: I see in History of Violence is maybe within the

625
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 6: course of the movie, because things have and so quickly,

626
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 6: we don't really get an opportunity to see Edie and

627
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 6: Jack process much. But what we do see is them

628
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 6: beating Tom over the head with this thing they've discovered

629
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 6: about him and using it in just a very assaultive way,

630
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 6: not asking him questions, not wanting to hear his side

631
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 6: of it, not wanting to take a moment to process,

632
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 6: but kind of that same drama inducing feeling. And to

633
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 6: some degree, maybe the most contrived part of both of

634
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 6: these movies is the way a buried secret comes to

635
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 6: light and then you have a group of people whose

636
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 6: immediate reaction is to just attack the person with a secret,

637
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 6: over and over and over and not let it go.

638
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

639
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, no, I go, I've got to, like, I

640
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 4: gotta combat this a little bit, do it?

641
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, Because I.

642
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 4: Think when you're talking about the secret that's being revealed

643
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 4: in the drama, this is something that did not happen

644
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 4: by someone who is much older. You know, she's talking

645
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 4: about something that she did not do and that you know,

646
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 4: and she's talking from the perspective of someone who's a

647
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 4: different person. Now, what is happening in the history of

648
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 4: violence is like a complete betrayal. It is it is

649
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 4: somebody who has presented himself as one person and has

650
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 4: hidden this entirely different past which is now pushed its

651
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 4: way into the present and completely disrupted, you know, the

652
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 4: very idea of who.

653
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: This man is.

654
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 4: I mean, I think, I just think there's a massive

655
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 4: difference in terms of, you know, the destabilization of that.

656
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 4: And I think in the case of History of Violence,

657
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 4: Tom's family absolutely has every right to not let it

658
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 4: go and to be highly suspicious and frightened of this

659
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 4: person that.

660
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 3: Is that they've.

661
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 4: Discovered it is not who they thought he was, and

662
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 4: it's a much different situation to me.

663
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 6: I absolutely agree, it's a radically different situation, and as

664
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 6: you said earlier, these movies have very different agenda. But

665
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 6: I do still see a connection in the way the

666
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 6: person with the secret, who did not want it to

667
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 6: come to light becomes kind of like just buried under this,

668
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 6: under this like the weight of all these accusations. I'm

669
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 6: certainly not saying that the situations are equal or the same,

670
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 6: or that the partner's investment in them is equal or

671
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 6: the same. I'm just saying, like, structurally and emotionally, to

672
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 6: some degree, I see a similarity in the way people

673
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 6: coping with the buried secret kind of like turn it

674
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 6: into an emotional assault barrage on the person at the

675
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 6: center of the film.

676
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, But I think, at least from what

677
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 4: where I'm sitting, one deserves a level of interrogation.

678
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: That the other one does not.

679
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 4: You know that the treatment that Emma receives in the

680
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 4: drama is out of whack in a way that the

681
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 4: reception that Tom gets when we learn more, when family

682
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 4: learns more about him, that that's entirely I think warranted

683
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 4: and justified. And I think in terms of, you know,

684
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 4: the level of fear that that that the family is

685
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 4: feeling about their president and future with his span is

686
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 4: much more real than kind of the strange fantasies and

687
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 4: hang ups that are going through Charlie's head and going

688
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 4: through Rachel's head and everybody else, you know, you know,

689
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 4: other of Emma's acquaintances who do know.

690
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: I think one of the white the situation is different too,

691
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: is that Charlie could walk away not either wouldn't be

692
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what the whole film hinges on, right,

693
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 1: But but it wouldn't be easy to disentangle himself from Emma.

694
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: But you know, engages get broken all the time, weddings don't,

695
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,439
Speaker 1: don't happen, but with the history of violence, it would

696
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: involve actually shattering this family that's been together and functional

697
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: and to this moment loving. To me, that's that's just

698
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 1: just the way that they're quite different situations, and in

699
00:35:58,840 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: that sense.

700
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 6: I think that is very true. I think Borgley does

701
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 6: try to kind of put a thumb on the scales

702
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 6: with Charlie, telling Emma that he couldn't live without her,

703
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 6: that he can't imagine life without her. Still nowhere near

704
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 6: the same as like owning a house together, having children together,

705
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 6: having this you know, at least fifteen year probably more

706
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 6: history together. But I think he does sort of try

707
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 6: to like push us in the direction of this isn't

708
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 6: an option for Charlie. He needs to stay in this relationship,

709
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 6: or at least he believes he needs to. He just

710
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 6: is like suddenly scratching, desperately, like all around the surfaces

711
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 6: of it, trying to figure out what he's trapped in.

712
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 4: I want to ask you all about this connection. I

713
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 4: was sort of thinking out between the movies, which is

714
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 4: how these secrets come to light, because that's kind of

715
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 4: a point of contrast in the sense that you know

716
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 4: Tom's past is Joey Cusack is something that he would

717
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 4: love to never come up ever in that and he

718
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 4: sort of designed his life around keeping that secret buried forever,

719
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 4: whereas in the drama, Emma discloses this secret willingly. I

720
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 4: mean maybe through you know, a lot of drinks and

721
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 4: through an escalating series of responses from her her friends

722
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 4: that you almost give her the space to be able

723
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 4: to make a confession like that. But I'm kind of

724
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 4: curious about what her motives for even bringing this up, Like,

725
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 4: what did you make of them finding out about this

726
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 4: at all? Because I mean, you certainly wouldn't you wouldn't

727
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 4: normally want to reveal something this dark about yourself. I mean,

728
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 4: is it just simply a social miscue on her partner.

729
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 4: Is it is an actual desire to, you know, disclose

730
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 4: something personal about herself.

731
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: I mean I read it as her not anticipating this

732
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: reaction at all.

733
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, and responding to both the level of like discomfort

734
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 6: and disclosure from the other three at the table, who

735
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 6: all squirm a lot about revealing the things they reveal.

736
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 6: I think that the combination of alcohol, peer pressure, and

737
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 6: seeing three other people just say over and over like,

738
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 6: I don't want to talk about this, I don't want

739
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 6: to reveal this, I don't want to give you any

740
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 6: more details than that. Maybe pushed her to a place

741
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 6: where she felt like to be equal, she had to

742
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 6: be honest. Maybe it was just an honesty response to

743
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 6: being asked that question. Maybe she's just an honest enough

744
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 6: person that it didn't occur to her to either make

745
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 6: something up or offer something more palatable.

746
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 4: She can't follow all of those things up by saying,

747
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 4: I put the toilet paper on in the under orientation, I.

748
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 6: Shoplifted the candy bar doing.

749
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 4: It, I keep doing it, and I'm sorry. I'm sorry

750
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 4: that that the toilet paper just continues to just roll

751
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 4: onto the floor, like just the chaos that I've brought

752
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 4: to everyone's life for making that happen.

753
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 3: But I don't know.

754
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 4: I think I agree. I mean, I think that's a

755
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 4: really nicely written scene. Because she's the last to go.

756
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 4: The others have really stepped up their game in terms

757
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 4: of revealing some pretty disturbing things about themselves, and so

758
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 4: that really does give her that opening to be able

759
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 4: to talk about this, and then also lends some meaning

760
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 4: to the idea that she felt like she could bring

761
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 4: this up without it being as much of a problem

762
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 4: as it turns out out to be, because.

763
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 3: You know, everyone is talking about things that they did.

764
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 3: You know, this is dout. She's talking about the thing

765
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 3: that she did not.

766
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 4: Do, and so they can maybe say, maybe be a

767
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 4: little shocked by it and say, oh wow, that must

768
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 4: have been, what a dark time in your life. What

769
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 4: she doesn't expect is the response that she gets, which is,

770
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 4: you know, fury from her maid of honor and then

771
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 4: a movie's worth of consternation from her husband to be.

772
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 3: And so the movie works all that stuff out.

773
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 4: So I mean, I think the movie sets us up

774
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 4: really really well for her to deliver this confession. And

775
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 4: maybe there is some part of her that has wanted

776
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 4: to say it, has wanted to be completely honest about

777
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,879
Speaker 4: who she is and what her past is with her

778
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 4: with people that she's closest to, and it just ended

779
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 4: up not going the way she planned or hoped.

780
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 6: Well, that brings me to something that I want to

781
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 6: ask you guys, which is one of the things I

782
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 6: see as linking these two films in my eyes, but

783
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 6: maybe not in other people's, because I don't know if

784
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 6: this is just my interpretation. I am one hundred percent

785
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 6: team Tom and Emma. Like I know that their pasts

786
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 6: are complicated, and they've both well, Okay, one of them

787
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 6: has done terrible things, and one of them totally thought

788
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 6: about it and is being treated as though that's the

789
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 6: worst thing anything has ever done. But to my mind,

790
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 6: one of them is forced out of a life that

791
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 6: he's built himself very carefully and with a lot of

792
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 6: what seems to be hard emotional work, and he's forced

793
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 6: out of it by an opportunity where he acts to

794
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 6: save people's lives. I think it's very clear that he's

795
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 6: moving to protect his employee rather than just he doesn't

796
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 6: wait until it's his life on the line. Put it

797
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 6: that way. But he doesn't want to be in the

798
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 6: situation he's in, and he doesn't want to do any

799
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 6: of the things he's forced to do. In this film, Emma,

800
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 6: it seems to me, has a moment of vulnerability where

801
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 6: she thinks she can trust her fiance and her friends

802
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 6: and spends the rest of the movie regretting it. So

803
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 6: while both of these films do sort of complicate sympathies

804
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 6: for them in some ways, I spend both of these

805
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 6: movies just really empathizing with the with the raw deal

806
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 6: they both get and some of the really unfair things

807
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 6: that get lobbed their way. Is this something else that

808
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 6: we differ on? Do you think it's more complicated than that?

809
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 6: Did you find places where you didn't have any sympathy

810
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 6: for Tom or Emma?

811
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering now if Tom and Emma might not

812
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: be better couple.

813
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 3: Young for Tom, We're gonna get it. We're gonna get

814
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 3: in an age gap discourse.

815
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: Key one thing that the drama does not invite, and

816
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: yet to hear, we bring it on ourselves.

817
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 4: I think we've kind of been over our differing feelings

818
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 4: on this touch because I think the reaction that Tom's

819
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 4: family has to, you know, learning that true things about

820
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 4: things that he about who he is, these true things

821
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 4: about what he's done, is more justified than the reaction

822
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 4: that Emma gets from something she actually did not. Do

823
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: you know I'm not necessarily I mean, you know, I

824
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 4: I'm not unsympathetic with Tom necessarily because I you know,

825
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 4: I mean, there is there is that ambition not just

826
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 4: to hide out, but to be someone else, to be

827
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 4: someone better, to lead, you know, a more wholesome life

828
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 4: that he was I think clearly quite successful at leading

829
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 4: and tell things. You know that the past came back

830
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 4: and brought this out of him again. But the fact

831
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 4: that he did all of these things and then he

832
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 4: is capable of all this violence and that he does

833
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 4: have that killer instinct that's authentic makes him a much

834
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 4: different creature, I think than Emma.

835
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 6: I mean, I agree with you, but I feel like

836
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 6: you keep sort of swerving into the ways in which

837
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 6: these stories of these characters are different. And it's not

838
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 6: the things that I'm trying to communicate. Maybe I'm communicating

839
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 6: them poorly, but they're not related to that in this case,

840
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 6: if you could, if you could leave you know, the

841
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 6: fairness of Jack and Edia's people and the room that

842
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 6: they should have to like process their emotions, and the

843
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 6: degree to which they should feel betraying all that out

844
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 6: of it for a second. Were there points in a

845
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 6: history of violence where you thought, yeah, he deserves that

846
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 6: because of what he did, he deserves to have like

847
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,439
Speaker 6: this level of you know, everything thrown at him.

848
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: It's tough with the history of violence, cause I feel

849
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: like we don't get a lot of information about what

850
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: exactly he did apart from being a gangster, and the

851
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: only violence we hear about him committing is toward other gangsters,

852
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: which seems like either kind of a cheat because you're

853
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: not going to feel too bad about him beating up

854
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 1: the you know, Ed Harris character types of the world.

855
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, you know, maybe that is enough.

856
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 1: Maybe that's just having been that guy is frightening enough.

857
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 6: I mean, certainly the detail of the barbed wire is

858
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 6: meant to communicate what kind of person he was, like

859
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 6: the fact that he even appalled his gangster brother with

860
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 6: a degree of his brutality, and the fact that he

861
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 6: admits in the hospital that he did kill four fun

862
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 6: I think we very much gloss over that in the movie,

863
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 6: specifically because, as you say, like it might shift sympathy

864
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 6: too much. But yes, the stuff that is being alighted

865
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 6: over here is very deliberate. I would say, I feel

866
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 6: like one of the biggest things, so Scott, you've brought

867
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 6: up several times, these movies aren't doing the same thing,

868
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 6: not you know, aimed in the same direction, telling the

869
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 6: same story. One way that I think they are is

870
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 6: that they're both in some degree interrogating kind of the

871
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 6: question that I brought up in the first half of

872
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 6: this conversation, which is, are we are pasts? How much

873
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 6: can a person change? How much? You know, how much

874
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 6: punishment do people deserve for things they thought or did

875
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 6: a long time ago when they were different people? And

876
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 6: I think you're a right to call out that they're

877
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 6: dealing with different levels of this question and in different ways.

878
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 6: But I do think that's sort of core to both

879
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 6: of them, is just sort of the question of, like,

880
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 6: if you were a different person earlier in your life,

881
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 6: to what degree are you still that person, whether you

882
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 6: want to be or not.

883
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think that you can see it's

884
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 4: just tricky in both cases. You see evidence of real

885
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 4: change in Emma, I mean, you know, the flashbacks count

886
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 4: for that change of that of ultimately not only just

887
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 4: opting against committing this act of violence, but also you know,

888
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 4: turning against guns, becoming an activist, you know, really changing herself,

889
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 4: you know, looking within and becoming a different person in

890
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 4: a way Tom doesn't get. You know, it's a little

891
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 4: ambiguous with Tom.

892
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: You don't know about the transformation. Yeah, we we just

893
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,479
Speaker 1: kind of get like very very few details about what that.

894
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 3: Was or what Yeah.

895
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 4: I mean, I think we can imagine that he was

896
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 4: that he needed to hide out and so and so

897
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 4: this is a way for him to do that. But

898
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 4: we can also imagine that there's something very you know,

899
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 4: intentional about the choices that he made in terms of

900
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 4: hiding out in the life he the new life that

901
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 4: I think he was he's trying to, you know, build

902
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 4: for himself, like there's something there's intentionality to that too.

903
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 4: Potentially though though obviously that's something that we don't see.

904
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 4: You know that he wants to be this guy that

905
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 4: he's every effort and he's succeeded to the point that

906
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 4: fate has allowed him to succeed.

907
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 6: I will say that another thing that links these two

908
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 6: movies for me is I think we would know a

909
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 6: lot more about Tom's history and what predicated the change,

910
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 6: and how authentic it is and what it means if

911
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 6: either Edie or Jack thought to ask him questions, and

912
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 6: the fact that they don't that their responses are to

913
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 6: my mind, pretty selfish and pretty cruel. Now, again, we're

914
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 6: seeing a very small segment of time, and they may

915
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 6: come around to this later, and the way they do

916
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 6: specifically respond is meant to gin up the drama as

917
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 6: it were, But I saw the same thing, particularly in

918
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 6: the wine tasting scene in the drama is just it

919
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 6: takes a while for Charlie to get to the point

920
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 6: where he actually starts asking the right questions and actually

921
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 6: listening to what Emma says. And in both of these movies,

922
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 6: I just I found that response that, you know, repulsion

923
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 6: and I don't want to know anymore. And I have

924
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 6: no interest in why any of this happened to be

925
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 6: just very selfish and hateful coming from people who supposedly

926
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 6: love the people at the center at these stories, Like

927
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 6: that's just me. I guess my first response in almost

928
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 6: any circumstance when somebody tells me something new is to

929
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 6: ask about it. Why did you do that, what did

930
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 6: it mean for you? How do you feel about it now?

931
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 6: And the fact that I mean especially Rachel doesn't think

932
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 6: to ask any questions, and Charlie and Mike don't either.

933
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 6: They just immediately start like unloading their own emotions in

934
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 6: the circumstances. And I don't know that that's a flaw

935
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 6: in either of these movies. Again, I think it's a

936
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 6: construction meant to drive drama, and it's maybe to some

937
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 6: degree a construction meant to drive like our own emotional responses,

938
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 6: because to me, it's it's kind of like a needling injustice,

939
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 6: like why wouldn't you talk to your partner about any

940
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 6: of this? So, you know, maybe it's just kind of

941
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 6: a brilliant cruelty on the part of both of these

942
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,720
Speaker 6: filmmakers that they put you in a really squirmy place

943
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 6: where you just want somebody to say, well, why or

944
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 6: what did this mean? And because they don't, you don't

945
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 6: find out some things you kind of want to need

946
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 6: to know.

947
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think it becomes more of a

948
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 4: problem in terms of the film working in the drama,

949
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 4: because you are you know, I'm pretty baffled by the

950
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 4: behavior of all of the characters that aren't Emma, in

951
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 4: terms of for the reasons you say, I mean, in

952
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 4: terms of the lack of that lack of curiosity, the

953
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 4: lack of asking questions of really, you know, talking through

954
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 4: that has happened, and and and actually kind of trying

955
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 4: to confront it head on and and do it in

956
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 4: a non gen judgmental way. I mean, Rachel's unreachable immediately,

957
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,479
Speaker 4: which in a way kind of flattens that character out.

958
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 4: You know, there's no not a whole lot of depth

959
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 4: of that character. She's I think behaves quite awfully with

960
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 4: a History of Violence. I think that the that the

961
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 4: narrative itself, because it's this sort of pulpy thriller, there

962
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 4: immediately becomes business that has to be taken care of,

963
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 4: and so so the amount of time there's there's endless

964
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 4: time in the for futzing about in the drama because

965
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 4: because what are they going to do?

966
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,280
Speaker 3: They're just there's this this period.

967
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 4: Before the wedding, and Charlie can kind of be in

968
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 4: his feelings and the two of them can sort out

969
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 4: their domestic issues during that stretch of time. The History

970
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 4: of Violence has actual unfinished business in the way that

971
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 4: genre films do, and so they really don't have that

972
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 4: much of a time to kind of settle in with

973
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 4: this new person who is you know, who is not

974
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 4: the time that they thought they understood. So but you know,

975
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 4: but to the extent that they do, the film is

976
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 4: so effective because you get you know, you get some confrontations,

977
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 4: you get the sex scene on the you know, on

978
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 4: the stairs. You know, they're not necessarily questions exactly, but

979
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 4: they are you know, at least confronting. What they've learned

980
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 4: about Tom is that they just do it in more

981
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 4: of a genre E way.

982
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think what you're saying is there

983
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: is an expectation in a drama like the drama, although

984
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: I guess it's really such calmly as drama that these

985
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: characters would be talking to each other and they really

986
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: had nothing to do except talk to each other, whereas

987
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,479
Speaker 1: the characters in the history of violence had to worry

988
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: about being wiped out by their enemies. I guess it

989
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: is a different situation.

990
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 6: Here's a weird question for you, guys. Is the sequence

991
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 6: where Jack fights back against the bully the equivalent in

992
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 6: the drama of the scene where Charlie fails to fight

993
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 6: back against Nish's boyfriend. I feel like in both cases,

994
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 6: in both cases, hear me out, we have a uh,

995
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,959
Speaker 6: a guy who's kind of like coded as as non

996
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 6: confrontational and awkward and not wanting to fight, not wanting

997
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 6: to stand up for himself, maybe not wanting to stand

998
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,280
Speaker 6: up for others, who is later forced with a physical confrontation,

999
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 6: and Jack, kind of drawing from the example of his father,

1000
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 6: fights back in a really almost frighteningly physical, dominant way,

1001
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 6: whereas Charlie, you know, continuing what he's done throughout the

1002
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 6: entire movie, cowers and gets the crap kicked out of him.

1003
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 6: Are these are these two scenes equivalent?

1004
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 3: Anyway?

1005
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,240
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about it that way, but but you know, yeah,

1006
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 1: I don't go ahead. I was going to say, but

1007
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 1: maybe yeah, yeah, I thought I thought to make Yeah, I.

1008
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 4: Just I don't think Charlie even has a chance. I mean,

1009
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 4: dude is dude is overwhelmed, you know, just overwhelm him

1010
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 4: and beats the hell out of him instantly.

1011
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 3: I think there's really a whole lot that he can

1012
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 3: do in that.

1013
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 1: If he did fight him back, it might have ruined

1014
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: the wedding.

1015
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, might I might have. It might have. I mean

1016
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 3: the other one is I mean it is interesting because.

1017
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 4: It's almost it's it's like, uh, it's like Jack kind

1018
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 4: of coming into touch with this inherited power in a

1019
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:28,959
Speaker 4: way that he didn't think he had.

1020
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 3: That that that that just you.

1021
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 4: Know, acting in a way that's this masculine I suppose

1022
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 4: is not really in his nature.

1023
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 3: But then maybe it is. Maybe that maybe as maybe.

1024
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 4: What he is understanding about his father showing him that

1025
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 4: that is what is, that that is not only within him,

1026
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 4: but that that whatever moral boundaries that he might have

1027
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 4: that might have led him to show restraint in any

1028
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 4: comfort in such a confrontation as that's gone. And so

1029
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 4: so he now has this permission to harness all of

1030
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 4: this fury that he's been feeling towards this kid who

1031
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 4: this guy has been bullying him and really kind of

1032
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 4: let it come out in the form of this, you know,

1033
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 4: physical fight. Yeah, it's really really it's really some kind

1034
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 4: of from some kind of scene. And you know, at

1035
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 4: that point, he's feeling filled with confidence. He caught that

1036
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 4: fly ball. He's like Timmy Loopis and the bad news

1037
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 4: Bear is all right, am I right? Timmy Loopis? Remember

1038
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 4: the booger eating Spas as they call her, catching catching

1039
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 4: that ball at the at the in the final game,

1040
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,760
Speaker 4: and everyone's thrilledd.

1041
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 6: I think Jack's a little cooler than that.

1042
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 4: He's a little cooler, but he's not that much cooler.

1043
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 4: He's a he's a bit of a he's a bit

1044
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 4: of of a woss. So it's good to see him

1045
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 4: find his I'm.

1046
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 6: Not sure that I think he's a woos. Certainly as

1047
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,280
Speaker 6: much as I think Charlie is a worus, I strongly

1048
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 6: suspect that he has been. Like we just we see

1049
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,360
Speaker 6: that he really admires his father several times over, and

1050
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 6: I wonder if just Tom's kind of soft spokenness and

1051
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 6: his habit of gently turning away conflict is something Jack

1052
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 6: has seen and kind of unconsciously modeled himself on. Like

1053
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 6: I don't know that, I sense like actual terror of

1054
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 6: the bully in the earlier scenes. He doesn't want to fight,

1055
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,879
Speaker 6: especially over something stupid, and then he sees his father

1056
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 6: model something else and he immediately copies that as well.

1057
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 6: So now if only there was a decent role model

1058
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,439
Speaker 6: somewhere in the drama that people could model themselves after

1059
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 6: and grow the heck up. Oh wait, there is. It's Mike.

1060
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 6: You mentioned that all of Emma's friends are terrible, But

1061
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,720
Speaker 6: I actually really like Mike as the guy who is

1062
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 6: so obviously caught between warring elements in people he really

1063
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 6: cares about. He may be the truest thing in this movie,

1064
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 6: just the guy who's just trying to make peace, and

1065
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 6: not in a woozy way, but in can we be

1066
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 6: adults about this kind of way? The entire movie. I

1067
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 6: really like that character.

1068
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 1: He did use his girlfriend as a human shield though

1069
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: when when they were when that when that dog was

1070
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: after them.

1071
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 6: He was younger and his brain wasn't fully formed, but

1072
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 6: none of that should count. It's fine. Also, are we

1073
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 6: really our past, Keith?

1074
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: I mean, Mike is anting. I think you're right. I

1075
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: think he has fully evolved into a better and a

1076
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 1: better person. Uh. You know, I don't think he would currently,

1077
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: he would not put alta him in front of front

1078
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: of an angry dog.

1079
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 6: Well maybe he should, because you know, getting the heck

1080
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 6: bet out of her as the least she deserves. She's

1081
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 6: kind of awful. I want better things for Edie. I

1082
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 6: want her to carry on having a good sex life

1083
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 6: full of cheerlead costumes or whatever. I don't need to

1084
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 6: need for her to get bitten by a dog. But yeah,

1085
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 6: Rachel can go fall off talk Cliff.

1086
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, she sure can. Yeah. I think she's very unsympathetic.

1087
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 3: Uh anyway.

1088
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 4: A History of Violence is available for digital rental and

1089
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 4: all the usual places. It's also available and a really

1090
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 4: cool Criterion edition, and the drama is still simmering in

1091
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 4: theaters and culture pages. We'll be right back with your

1092
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 4: Next Picture Show. Finally, it's time to recommend a film

1093
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 4: or film related item that compliments this set of episodes.

1094
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 4: We call it your Next Picture Show in the hopes

1095
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 4: that'll put some interesting choices on your radar. I'm gonna

1096
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 4: do it this time me because one of the films

1097
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 4: that I immediately thought about pairing the drama with is

1098
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 4: bobcat Goldthwaite's two thousand and six dark comedy Sleeping dogs Lie,

1099
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 4: which has got a bit of a cult following it

1100
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 4: is it is a favorite film of John Waters, and

1101
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 4: I think when you see the movie you will understand why.

1102
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 4: But as we were talking about how the drama is

1103
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 4: about a guy who was sort of you know where

1104
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 4: the school shooting angle is sort of a hang up

1105
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 4: that Charlie has to get and Sleeping dogs Lie we

1106
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 4: have a character who has to get past the revelation

1107
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 4: that the woman he's seeing, his perception of her is

1108
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 4: damaged when she reveals to him that she committed an

1109
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 4: act of beastiality with her dog while she was in college.

1110
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 4: And so which is again, you know, I mean, a

1111
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 4: very dark but also extremely funny way of just like

1112
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 4: messing with which is kind of a common trope in

1113
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 4: a movie, which is, you know, male sexual jealousy and

1114
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 4: how it kind of becomes this obstacle that prevents them

1115
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 4: from happiness. And here it's it's quite a large and

1116
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 4: absurd obstacle that I think, you know, and again it's

1117
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 4: been a while since I've seen it, but that that

1118
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 4: Gulf White handles with you know, a lot of very

1119
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 4: you know, low fi, low key, you know, darkly comic flare.

1120
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 4: It's a film that I found quite memorable and provocative

1121
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 4: and enjoyable at the time, and I think it would

1122
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 4: be probably worth returning to because you know, I think

1123
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 4: he's got a certain amount of talent as a as

1124
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 4: as a filmmaker. So I'd recommend checking out Sleeping Dogs.

1125
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 3: Lie. Am I the only here who's seen it's also

1126
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 3: called the original title. I like you even more. It's

1127
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 3: just called Stay, which is just brilliant. That's a brilliant title.

1128
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: I mean to watch it because I know you're really

1129
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: big on it, but I guess it's one of those

1130
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: things where like I'll get to it one of these days,

1131
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: like twenty two years past or whatever. Since when you

1132
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: first recommended it to be Scott, when you said that

1133
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 1: it deals with a common trope that you see in

1134
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 1: a lot of movies.

1135
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 3: I was wondering what you.

1136
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: Were referring to, if you're referring to the premise of

1137
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: the film, I had to I was my fellow question

1138
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 1: would be like, what kind of a piece are you watching.

1139
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 3: Movies?

1140
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 4: Like I think I'm more talking about I'm talking about

1141
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 4: just hang ups, like I was thinking like another movie

1142
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 4: I was.

1143
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 3: Thinking about, not the dog stuff, all right, I was.

1144
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 4: I was kind of thinking about Who's that knocking at

1145
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 4: my door as a as a potential pairing for this

1146
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 4: as well, because that whole movie is about Harvey Harvey

1147
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 4: kai Tell's character falling for somebody and just not getting

1148
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 4: past the fact that she's, you know, not a virgin.

1149
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 3: So it's an interesting movie. Tasha, was there something you

1150
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 3: were kind of thinking about with this with this picture

1151
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 3: as well?

1152
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, I haven't seen Sleeping Dogs Lie. But the one

1153
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 6: of the movies that came up for me, I guess

1154
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 6: most when I was watching the drama is Thomas Ventterberg's

1155
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 6: The Celebration or Festin. It's one of the early Dogma

1156
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 6: ninety five movies, and it's about a man who at

1157
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 6: his father's sixtieth birthday celebration with the whole family gathered around,

1158
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 6: stands up and says that his father molested him. And

1159
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 6: it's another you know, buried secret comes to life movie,

1160
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 6: and very much a like It's kind of the wedding

1161
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 6: in the Drama at feature length, just who sides with who,

1162
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 6: who reacts how to the drama. If everybody at that

1163
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 6: wedding was like an actual participatory character, that's what the

1164
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 6: celebration would feel like to some degree. There's certainly some

1165
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 6: dark humor in it. There's a lot of family drama.

1166
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 6: It does remind me of to some degree how how

1167
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 6: the drama balances humor and fraught emotional content, and I

1168
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 6: would be a little surprised if it wasn't a model

1169
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 6: to some degree. Thomas Vinterberg also the director of Another Round,

1170
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 6: which we did do on the podcast. The Celebration, I

1171
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 6: believe is one of our first movies of the week

1172
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 6: back at the Dissolve, but we've actually never done it

1173
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 6: for the show, So I would recommend The Celebration. It's

1174
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 6: on Movie and the Criterion Channel both, and that alone

1175
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 6: maybe tells you something about what a good movie it is.

1176
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 3: A celebration is dog May number one.

1177
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 6: Oh wow.

1178
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:45,919
Speaker 3: It is the very first dog Man.

1179
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 4: And it is the best one that I've seen by

1180
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 4: a good, good margin, So right out of the gate,

1181
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 4: good work from Thomas Vinterberg.

1182
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: I feel standard feeling left out because we're going to

1183
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: throw back to and we all do recommendations and the

1184
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 1: and we stretches the running time out even longer than

1185
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: it usually is. But so just real quickly, I missed

1186
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: Stephen mcady in the previous episode. He's the star of

1187
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 1: a film called Pontypool. I always recommend to people looking

1188
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 1: for some a little off the beaten track. It's a

1189
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: Bruce McDonald directed Canadian director Bruce McDonald. It's a zombie

1190
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: film in which the zombie ism kind of spreads Sue language,

1191
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: which I think is a really interesting, uh concept. And

1192
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: Steve Mcaty plays a shock jock in a small in

1193
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: the small Ontario town of Pontypool. And I that is

1194
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 1: my recommendation for your next picture show I get the

1195
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 1: last word on this one.

1196
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 6: Wait, wait, are there any deep, dark hidden secrets in

1197
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 6: this movie?

1198
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 1: I'm not in the sense of the other two movies,

1199
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 1: but I was again, I was just feeling ali like

1200
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: I need to say something nice, You're welcome just.

1201
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 3: Looking at it.

1202
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 4: It's like up he finds an angle. He's got the

1203
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 4: pontypool angle. You can bring it in.

1204
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 3: There, pontypool. Uh. Well.

1205
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 4: For now, we welcome your feedback on a history of

1206
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 4: violence of the Drum and anything else film related you

1207
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 4: like to talk about. Email us at comments at Next

1208
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 4: Picture Show Net, or leave us a voicemail at seven

1209
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:11,959
Speaker 4: seven three two three four ninety seven three zero. That's

1210
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 4: it for this edition of the Next Picture Show, Keith,

1211
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 4: can you talk about our next pairing?

1212
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 1: In the nutriller Normal, Bob Odenkirk plays the inner shriff

1213
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: of Normal, a remote Minnesota town filled with seemingly nice

1214
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 1: people who have no secrets. Here's the moudest of all

1215
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: possible spoilers. Not all is as it seems. Normal reminded

1216
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 1: us of another Minnesota set crime story, Joel and Ethan

1217
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 1: Cohen's Fargo, a film that's in some ways Normal's polar opposite.

1218
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 1: In spite of their surface similarities. We'll talk over all

1219
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: they have in common and all that divides them on

1220
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 1: our next episodes.

1221
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 4: For now, we welcome your feedback on a history of

1222
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 4: violence The drama and anything else forumulated that you like

1223
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 4: to talk about. Email us at comments at next Picture

1224
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 4: Show dot net, or leaves a voicemail at seven seven

1225
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 4: three two three four nine seven three zero Before we

1226
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 4: close out this week's episode, we find everyone these days,

1227
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 4: Tasha Robinson.

1228
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 6: I am the entertainment editor at poly on dot com.

1229
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 6: You can find my writing there, and you can find

1230
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 6: me on and off at Blue Sky at Tasha Robinson Keith,

1231
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 6: what about you.

1232
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm a freelance writer. I write for publications like Vulture

1233
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: and TV Guide, sometimes sometimes The Ringer every once in

1234
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 1: a while, but mostly mostly you can find me at

1235
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 1: the Reveal. That's the Reveal dot film, which is the

1236
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: movies newsletter that I co write with one Scott Tobias,

1237
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: who is also on this podcast. If in case you

1238
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: didn't notice one more time, that's the Reveal dot Film.

1239
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 1: I'm also on socials at KFIPS three thousand, mostly on

1240
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: Blue Sky these days, Scott, how about you?

1241
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Revealed dot Film. Were just did a big

1242
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 4: conversation about Barry Lyndon, which is we're really getting into

1243
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 4: the meat of our site and sound project on there.

1244
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 4: Just the top fifty of the poll is just one

1245
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 4: banger after another, as the kids would say. And then

1246
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 4: you can also find my work in your times of Vulture, Guardian,

1247
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 4: another Fine Publications.

1248
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 3: You can find me on.

1249
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 4: Blue Sky at Scott Tobias. You can find our abbsent

1250
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 4: co host Jovikoski at Vulture, where she is the senior

1251
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,919
Speaker 4: TV editor. She mostly just lurks on social media under

1252
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 4: her full name, A little bit on Blue Sky, a

1253
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 4: little bit on Instagram. Stay updated on the Next Picture

1254
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 4: Show at Next Picture Show dot net and on Blue

1255
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 4: Sky at the Next Picture Show. Get bonus content and

1256
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 4: open discussion at Patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show.

1257
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 4: And as always, we appreciate your ratings and reviews on

1258
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to the show.

1259
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 4: Smash that subscribe button, give the you know, hit us

1260
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 4: with those five stars at Reviews Let's do It. Thanks

1261
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 4: to Dan the Big Jakes for his assistants producing this podcast.

1262
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 4: The Next Picture Show is proudly part of the Film

1263
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 4: Spotting family of podcasts. Please tune in next time.

1264
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 6: It was a good movie.

1265
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, seen here before once