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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brading. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer

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Speaker 1: Paul Mission Controlled Decado. Most importantly, you are you. You

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Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. We're going to talk about something

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Speaker 1: that is sometimes a third rail in conversation for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people. It's something that makes a lot of

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Speaker 1: Americans uncomfortable. It's something a lot of people I'd like

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Speaker 1: to ignore. It's the interaction between cops and gay hangs,

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Speaker 1: and it's something that might surprise a lot of people

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Speaker 1: in the audience today. But before we get into any

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Speaker 1: of that, quick correction corner and a thank you for

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Speaker 1: our long time conspiracy realist who helped keep us on

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Speaker 1: the true path here uh. In our Eggspiracy episode, we

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Speaker 1: were talking about m R in a misspoke that should

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Speaker 1: be messenger RNA, not modified RNA. It's important distinction. But

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Speaker 1: thankfully with the conspiracy theories we mentioned in relation to

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Speaker 1: eggs are exactly as we described. Also thanks to everybody

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Speaker 1: who wrote in with follow ups on this winter v

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Speaker 1: and flu epidemic. I think we'll get to it uh

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Speaker 1: in a listener mail segment in the future, but please

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Speaker 1: stay tuned. Uh. If you haven't listened yet, check out

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Speaker 1: the expiracy episode. I think we all had a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun on that one. Did you see the record

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Speaker 1: egg profits? Yes, the art, the petroleum industry, yeah, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: excel mobiles cleaning up everything, but the environment. You know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Uh, you know, it kind of makes me.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me of this old Tim and Eric sketch

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Speaker 1: with Steve Shirippa from The Sopranos, where it's like an

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Speaker 1: infomercial for like this kit that you can get where

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Speaker 1: it will allow you to lay eggs, And the line

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Speaker 1: is with the price of eggs going through the f

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Speaker 1: and roof, He's like, now I can pass a dozen

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Speaker 1: eggs through my rhea and you know, and I can't.

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Speaker 1: I think we may have mentioned this from me we

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Speaker 1: were talking on fair but um in other parts of

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Speaker 1: the world, egg shortage, egg price scouching totally not a thing,

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I got some eggs right here. Um,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna film a video about it. I think

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Speaker 1: I think you guys got to it first. Check that

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Speaker 1: out on Instagram and social media. Yeah, and we got

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Speaker 1: to talk to a real life egg farmer or a

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Speaker 1: chicken chicken dad. I think it's what you refer to

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Speaker 1: him as Matt. He's well like power in the background.

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Speaker 1: I am genuinely we all know that I'm scared of chickens,

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Speaker 1: but I've faced my fear to a degree. Um. But

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Speaker 1: he said there was a period where the hens weren't

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Speaker 1: laying eggs like they used to, but once they were

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Speaker 1: done molting, they said the egg yield was was better

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Speaker 1: than ever. So I think we kind of nailed it

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Speaker 1: at least in terms of our guess. Is that definitely

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Speaker 1: some conditions, whether it be environmental or just natural processes

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Speaker 1: that animals go through that could account for some of

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Speaker 1: this and not nearly what you know, some folks are

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Speaker 1: making it out to be in terms of some sort

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Speaker 1: of you know, nefarious dealings. So that is our correction corner,

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Speaker 1: and please check out the episode. Always feel free to

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Speaker 1: send us clarifications, your takes, your responses, because you know honestly, folks,

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Speaker 1: A lot of other podcasts might not welcome that stuff,

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Speaker 1: but we very much do because we prefer we prefer

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Speaker 1: the truth, unvarnished end. You know, you could say we're

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Speaker 1: all one big family here, maybe even a gang. Hey,

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Speaker 1: that's what you call a segue. Uh. We talked about

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Speaker 1: gangs before. Was the most recent gang episode? We talked about?

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Speaker 1: Was it um? Was it MS thirteen? That's what I

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Speaker 1: was thinking. I was. I was gonna say, was it

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Speaker 1: M I five? No, that's not the same thing. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good point, man. You could argue that a

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Speaker 1: lot of government agencies are in and of themselves somewhat

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Speaker 1: clandestine gang like entities or within them have groups that

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Speaker 1: function as a separate unit, right, Yeah, the Special Boys,

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Speaker 1: the Special Class. Uh, and which, as it turns out,

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Speaker 1: is the name of a gang, the Special Boys. Those

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Speaker 1: are there and then uh yeah, gang names can get

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Speaker 1: kind of silly if you don't think about what they do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but there there's also this thing with gangs. Saying something

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Speaker 1: as a gang is like saying an organization is a cult.

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Speaker 1: In some ways, they come in all shapes and sizes.

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Speaker 1: It can be an umbrella term their gangs all across

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Speaker 1: the planet. It doesn't matter where you live, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter how big or how small your community is. There

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Speaker 1: are clicks, you know, and some of those clicks do

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Speaker 1: gang like things like fascism. You could almost, I would

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Speaker 1: posit defining gangs by their tactics applied rather than their

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Speaker 1: specific ideology, right, because if you look at ideology, there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of gangs who have absolutely nothing in

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Speaker 1: common their gangs who are founded just to kill other gangs.

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Speaker 1: It's wild out there. And there is a list I

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Speaker 1: believe that's maintained by a government agency of known gangs.

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Speaker 1: Remember that more think the FBI, remember that moment when

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Speaker 1: the Juggalos got on that list, because the real uproar

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Speaker 1: within the I c P community, well, because there were

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Speaker 1: gang like activities occurring within that larger group, right, which

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Speaker 1: is it's true, it's tough to make the distinction, but

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Speaker 1: that's something we kind of have to do. The entirety

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Speaker 1: of a group generally, when it's an organized system like

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Speaker 1: that isn't a full gang, but then inside there you

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Speaker 1: got pockets, right, Yeah, And I want to give I

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Speaker 1: never thought I would end up saying this on air. Younger, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: younger me would be so baffled. But props to I

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Speaker 1: c P. I saw a recent interview where I think

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Speaker 1: it was UM, I think was Shaggy too Dope was

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Speaker 1: saying UH. I was saying that he felt terrible about

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Speaker 1: using UM like homophobic slang in past I c P songs,

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Speaker 1: and he said that goes against everything about the inclusiveness

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Speaker 1: that we have tried to build in the global Juggalo community.

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Speaker 1: And it hit me, you know, I was like, what

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Speaker 1: a what a nice guy, and was like touching, there's

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Speaker 1: a global Juggalo community. Yeah, then I found I know,

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Speaker 1: I know, and there's they're also in the train kid

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Speaker 1: community too. So oh and speaking of train kids and

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Speaker 1: off the grid cultures, check out City of the Rails.

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Speaker 1: I believe it's called UH, produced by our pal Julian Weller.

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Speaker 1: Moving moving on, though, you know, we've got I think

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Speaker 1: all all of us have some pretty pretty intense opinions

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Speaker 1: and perspectives about this idea of gangs. We've just outlined

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Speaker 1: some of the tricky things there. But for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, there's one there's one entity that would probably

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Speaker 1: not be a gang, or probably not be affiliated in

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Speaker 1: a friendly way with gangs, at least in the public mind,

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Speaker 1: and that is law enforcement. The natural enemy of the

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Speaker 1: gang is law enforcement, just like the mongoose is the

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Speaker 1: natural enemy of the cobra. So it would see, here

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Speaker 1: are the facts. Nobody knows when gangs got to the US.

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Speaker 1: Nobody knows because you can't really define what makes a

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Speaker 1: gang ideologically, It's got to be the tactics. So we're

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Speaker 1: the people at the Boston Tea Party. Were they a gang?

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Speaker 1: They were doing some gangland stuff, you know, And like,

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Speaker 1: what's the distinction between a gang and a mob or

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Speaker 1: or a terrorist organization. It's almost like it's a hierarchy,

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Speaker 1: because a mob is something that kind of just springs

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Speaker 1: up with maybe minor amounts of planning, but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: have like by laws and like you know, meets regularly.

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Speaker 1: It's only more of like a temporary gang kind of right,

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Speaker 1: So I would argue, But but but Boston Tea Party

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Speaker 1: definitely had some serious planning that went into it. It's that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, to your point, Matt, it is a distinction

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Speaker 1: that's important to make, but one that can often be

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Speaker 1: a little blurry. I think, well, you guys correct me

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Speaker 1: if I'm wrong here. I think generally a gang is

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Speaker 1: a group of people that conspire to profit from some

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Speaker 1: illegal activity. Right, so like, there's generally a profit mode

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Speaker 1: of associated with a gang, well ultimately right when it evolves.

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Speaker 1: But we have to remember in the early days of uh, Like,

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Speaker 1: we have to remember this is stomic structures that force

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Speaker 1: people into gangs, Like with the MS thirteen example, they

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Speaker 1: were banding together so that they did not get victimized themselves.

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Speaker 1: So I would say survival first and then profit. But

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Speaker 1: you know, profit and survival they're very closely linked, uh

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Speaker 1: because people want to survive, but obviously, given the choice,

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Speaker 1: you would prefer not to survive poor. Uh So, still,

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to be going back and forth

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Speaker 1: over this definition of gangs for a while. You can

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Speaker 1: see all kinds of official documentation about it in the

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Speaker 1: world of criminal justice, academic world of criminology, and so on.

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Speaker 1: But they don't, I think a lot of them, if

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Speaker 1: they're being honest, acknowledge the oh my gosh, acknowledge the

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Speaker 1: liminal space of the definition whatever. Uh Look, the it's

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Speaker 1: tough to nail down when gangs actually emerged in the US,

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Speaker 1: but we do know this to your earlier pointnal. The

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Speaker 1: b I does try to keep track and currently estimates

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Speaker 1: that in the US and US territories and all that jazz,

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Speaker 1: there are around thirty three thousand active violent street gangs

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Speaker 1: or motorcycle gangs and prison gangs in the US. And

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Speaker 1: when we see gangs here, we're not talking about like

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Speaker 1: the Apple Dumpling gang. These are kids knocking Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: not knocking down mailboxes throwing toilet paper and Halloween or eggs.

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Speaker 1: That's like a brand really expensive crime. Bull Frog races. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is like it's like a felon need to throw

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Speaker 1: eggs now? Right, So, uh, law enforcement and gangs have

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Speaker 1: always officially been nemesses. But as we talked about previously,

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Speaker 1: anybody who's seen the wire, right, you know that you

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Speaker 1: you become familiar with your regulars, right. Think of you

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Speaker 1: could almost think of like some cops with a beat

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Speaker 1: as bartenders who have regular customers. It's just their customers

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Speaker 1: are people who regularly commit street level crime. So they

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Speaker 1: start to know, you know, shaky oats or whatever, the

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Speaker 1: guys going by. And we know that that familiarity can

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Speaker 1: be a kind of leverage. Even the FEDS have cooperated

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Speaker 1: with the mob before to try to like kill Castro

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Speaker 1: or talked about this on Ridiculous History wage a campaign

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Speaker 1: in Italy in World War Two. But I don't know, man,

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Speaker 1: that's the question. Okay, So Miles and Jack over at

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Speaker 1: Daily See Guys taught me a great word, copaganda. So propaganda,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what is it just the idea of like

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Speaker 1: creating an image for the police that is not necessarily

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Speaker 1: based on reality, like Law and Order. Yeah, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: and no, that's cop I've heard that though, that the

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Speaker 1: police love Law and Order because it it portrays them

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Speaker 1: in such a positive light as as truly being the

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Speaker 1: good guys. And then also the creators are like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we based this on the real stories and this is

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Speaker 1: really how it's done. But they don't really show any

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Speaker 1: of the you know, kind of more CD underbelly. They

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Speaker 1: don't really show defense attorneys, agents of the people. They're

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Speaker 1: always kind of depicted as smarmie jerks. And someone's like

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Speaker 1: and you know, there's uh, there's a detective who's trying

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Speaker 1: really harder d A. And they're saying, look, we've got

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Speaker 1: your guy dead to rights. We have all the evidence.

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Speaker 1: And they're like, oh man, we didn't seem if you

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Speaker 1: can prove it. Copaganda means, you know exactly what we're describing,

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Speaker 1: trying to trying to make the police look good, brushing

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Speaker 1: over serious issues. But even in that stuff you see

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Speaker 1: things that are pa in fact, like the idea of informants. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: and there are also television shows like the recent We

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Speaker 1: Own This City that show the opposite side. Right, So

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Speaker 1: it does exist. But the capaganda, as you put it,

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Speaker 1: is there too. It's interesting how the uh, popular media

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Speaker 1: kind of like tries to I guess, tries to have

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Speaker 1: all of it together at once. But I guess it's

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Speaker 1: what you choose to put into your head maybe forms

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Speaker 1: your opinion on the subject. True. Yeah, as in all

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Speaker 1: things right, and so we know that if you put

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Speaker 1: aside all the Hollywood stuff, there are a couple of

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Speaker 1: different paths where the mongoose and the cobra meat here. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'll put down that comparison later. I don't know it's working. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So you know you've got the official c I right,

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Speaker 1: confidential informant not necessarily a criminal. It's anybody who provides useful,

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Speaker 1: credible information. But then you've got that off the books

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Speaker 1: kind of transactional thing. Hey, shaky oats or whatever. You know, Um,

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Speaker 1: I could take into the station, or you could just

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Speaker 1: tell me where you got the blow, you know, or

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Speaker 1: the heroin or whatever. Um. That kind of stuff happens,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it's just people doing favors for each other,

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Speaker 1: you know, despite their official positions, people can and do

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Speaker 1: build familiarity. You can get involved in quid pro quoes,

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Speaker 1: but everybody still knows gangs are a problem. And that's

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Speaker 1: where we lead to some of the stuff that you

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Speaker 1: foreshadow just a few minutes ago, Matt. The idea of

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Speaker 1: these kind of specific units like the Special Boys, Um,

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Speaker 1: one of the big ones are anti gang units. The

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Speaker 1: more dressed up term for them is gang intelligence units

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Speaker 1: or g I use because you add intelligence to something

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Speaker 1: to make it sound smarter. Just like a lot of

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Speaker 1: criminals where glasses when they go into court. He couldn't

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Speaker 1: have done that. Look at those spectacles kind of picturing

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Speaker 1: this being to some degree what's portrayed in the movie

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Speaker 1: Training Day, where um Denzel Washington's characters. Obviously he's like

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Speaker 1: a crooked cop, but his cover story is that he

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Speaker 1: is essentially, you know, in with these gangs as a

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Speaker 1: means of you know, getting information and being embedded and

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Speaker 1: kind of having you know, the word on the street

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Speaker 1: and all of that. Well, I mean, there are undercover

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Speaker 1: office officers in most major cities and in some small towns,

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Speaker 1: there are undercover officers right now on the street, operating

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Speaker 1: and gaining intelligence right on what's happening on the street level.

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Speaker 1: But there are also these anti gang units, which are

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Speaker 1: specialty units of police officers that cracked down on uh

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Speaker 1: often often gang activity, sometimes just it's like drug enforcement

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Speaker 1: kind of thing, which those two go together often handed hand.

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Speaker 1: And there's other stuff like violent crime units that are

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Speaker 1: just specialty units that are supposed to respond maybe more

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Speaker 1: aggressively and swiftly than other units within a police department.

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Speaker 1: M M. Yeah, that there would be UM specifically trained

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Speaker 1: or tasked with doing the doing the police work in

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Speaker 1: known high crime areas. So someone would have probably a

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Speaker 1: table as stats for a few years or a few

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Speaker 1: months and say this is where we put our response unit.

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Speaker 1: And they might not call them headcrackers, but this is

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Speaker 1: where we put people who are going to have UM

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Speaker 1: more training or more familiarity with escalation tactics and with

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Speaker 1: responding to violence from civilians. The this happens when fear

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Speaker 1: of gangs rises at different points in history, and it's

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Speaker 1: be cyclical. Uh. The National Gang Intelligence Center wasn't created

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Speaker 1: by the FBI until two thousand and five. But these

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Speaker 1: task forces something like them have been around for a

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Speaker 1: long long time. They were used to break strikes right

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Speaker 1: in the in the days of the Depression, in the

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Speaker 1: in the days of Joe Hill, and other times, you know,

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Speaker 1: the times that your history textbooks ignore these days. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The very first anti gang unit, specifically anti gang as

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven in Chicago. It is specifically to target

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Speaker 1: people of color. It start getting black street gangs. More

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Speaker 1: and more of these units or some derivation of them

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Speaker 1: come up in the nine nineties, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: it happens, you know. During the Clinton administration, there was

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Speaker 1: this huge um acceleration in the militarization of police, and

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Speaker 1: part of it was based on studies, like there was

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Speaker 1: this federal study that said, Okay, we got three thousand,

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Speaker 1: four hundred and forty different law enforcement agencies to report

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Speaker 1: to us, and of them, more than half say that

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Speaker 1: a lot of their criminal issues are coming from youth gangs.

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Speaker 1: So everybody said gangs are a problem, and they just

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Speaker 1: didn't know exactly how to deal with it, so they

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Speaker 1: decided to respond with lots of money and lots of violence.

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Speaker 1: And that's how you get things like um, I think

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Speaker 1: that's how you get a lot of those specialized units, right,

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Speaker 1: because we have to remember that in the sixties, some

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Speaker 1: of those things Chicago was calling gangs were just activist

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Speaker 1: groups who are not committing terrorism. You know. They weren't

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Speaker 1: shaken down the moms and pops or dealing drugs. They

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Speaker 1: were fighting for more equality in the United States, and

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Speaker 1: Chicago p D said some of them were that, but

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Speaker 1: then there were also violent, dangerous street gangs. So it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it all existed, but you can't. You can't

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Speaker 1: hit every problem with a hammer, right, And that's kind

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Speaker 1: of what these groups were, at least in my mind.

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Speaker 1: It makes me think about Goody Mob's Dirty South, and

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Speaker 1: I know you guys are familiar with that song. One

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Speaker 1: of the first lines in there is about how Clinton

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Speaker 1: is supplying keylows of drugs to one of the guys

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Speaker 1: so that he can turn a profit. So Clinton can

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Speaker 1: turn a profit, you know, but via this guy's work. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it's also when they mentioned red Dogs the the

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Speaker 1: Union in Atlanta, the specialty anti gang unit. They were

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Speaker 1: in the news recently, right, just for like highly aggressive tactics.

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Speaker 1: Well they they're in the news as a comparison, and

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Speaker 1: that we're gonna get to in this episode in a

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Speaker 1: little bit. But they they stood for run every drug

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Speaker 1: dealer out of Georgia, and it's something that got shut

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Speaker 1: down in two thousand eleven. So yeah, it was in

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Speaker 1: the news, but only as a comparison, and they were

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Speaker 1: they were also just I love that you're pointing out

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Speaker 1: good game up there, because they were also deploying, deployed

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Speaker 1: the same tactics gangs use when they hit when they

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Speaker 1: hit a rival drug spot, like the same thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this this isn't pretty. Of course, if you're being objective,

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Speaker 1: why are those tactics deployed by gangs and uh folks

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Speaker 1: who are supposed to be watching gangs. Because those tactics

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Speaker 1: work just like assassination. That's the reason no government is

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Speaker 1: gonna ever take assassination or targeted killing off the table

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Speaker 1: until you bust open the door of the wrong house

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Speaker 1: and you shoot a ninety two year old woman five

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Speaker 1: times and she dies, and then your unit gets disbanded. Right,

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Speaker 1: your unit gets gets disbanded, and then other people in

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Speaker 1: the world of law enforcement who are not going extremist,

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Speaker 1: other people who are just trying to do their jobs,

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Speaker 1: they're the ones who deal with the consequences there and

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Speaker 1: the like in the case of Red Dog, which we're

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Speaker 1: quite close to living in Atlanta at the time. In

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Speaker 1: the case of Red Dog, there aren't a lot of consequences.

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Speaker 1: That's another difference. Anyway. We see that, we see that

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Speaker 1: the lines get um blurred in a very uncomfortable Robin

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Speaker 1: Thick way. For die hard supporters of conventional policing, you know,

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Speaker 1: you'll hear hear everybody again agreeing there's a problem. There's

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Speaker 1: a problem with gangs, right, and then there's a problem

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Speaker 1: with um the power and lack of oversight given to

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Speaker 1: law enforcement that's supposed to fight back about against these gangs.

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Speaker 1: For a lot of die hard supporters of conventional police

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Speaker 1: work in the US, the answer is stuff like more funding,

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Speaker 1: more oversight, and more gang intelligence units, more task force initiatives,

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Speaker 1: and so on. But these are still incredibly controversial, and

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Speaker 1: history has proven that innocent people inevitably get caught up

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Speaker 1: in the process and corruption inevitably seems to come into play.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about the ongoing case regarding the murder of

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Speaker 1: an activist in Atlanta, in Cops City, right in the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta Forest. And to add all this together, there's another problem,

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Speaker 1: a noxious conspiratorial cherry on top of this extraordinarily dangerous

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Speaker 1: Sunday Series real life conspiracies. What happens when the law says, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's start a gang of arrow Well, we'll tell you

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Speaker 1: after a quick word from our sponsor. Here's where it

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Speaker 1: gets crazy. We don't always get to say this, but

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Speaker 1: guess the conspiracy is true. The conspiracies are true. Your

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Speaker 1: local law enforcement. I don't want to paint with the broadbrush.

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Speaker 1: We can't speak on them specifically, but it's a local

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Speaker 1: law enforcement in the United States is riddled with gangs

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Speaker 1: on the inside. Yeah, and and well, let's make the

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Speaker 1: distinction right now, Ben, are we saying, um, like there's

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Speaker 1: a unit of the Bloods that infiltrated a police department

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Speaker 1: or that the police department or sheriff's office formed a

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Speaker 1: gang within it. Uh, kind of both. Let's let's focus

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Speaker 1: on the ladder because and we can you know what, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's go ahead and get that out of the way.

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Speaker 1: That's an important distinction. So we know that. Uh, they're like,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about infiltration versus what we could call maybe

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Speaker 1: home grown. So exist gangs infiltrating aspects of law enforcement

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Speaker 1: the legal system. Usually what they're going to be doing

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Speaker 1: is trying to get into related parts of legal system.

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Speaker 1: You want to control prison guards, right, that's a way

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Speaker 1: you can get contraband into the system. That's how you

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Speaker 1: can help cover up crimes like retribution murders are different rackets.

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Speaker 1: You could get somebody in the courtroom aspects of it too.

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Speaker 1: I could get you some favors. But yeah, law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: if you could get them, that would be great. And

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Speaker 1: you know, there's so many fictional crime dramas about just that, right,

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Speaker 1: Like that's a big spoiler alert. That's a big plot

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Speaker 1: point of The Departed, isn't it that we've got we've

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Speaker 1: got our boy on the inside. Who wouldn't want that?

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Speaker 1: Um Now, I don't know how often that really happens though, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and minor spoilers for a like fifteen year old movie.

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Speaker 1: It turns out that the big bad of the movie,

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Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson's character is also an informant on the payroll, um,

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Speaker 1: and essentially acting in his own best interest while also

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Speaker 1: reporting to higher ups like I think it's to the FBI.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's very it's very complicated because you've got

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Speaker 1: folks that are trying to infiltrate his organization to get

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Speaker 1: to him, but all the while he's actually reporting to

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Speaker 1: somebody even further up the chain. It's it's the spider

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Speaker 1: Man meme again. Right, you're an informant. Wait uh okay,

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Speaker 1: So if we're saying, we've already probably ruffled some feathers

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Speaker 1: here right by saying, yes, the conspiracies are true, there

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Speaker 1: are gangs in law enforcement. They are home grown and

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Speaker 1: they're doing gang stuff. Um, and you know, okay, let's

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Speaker 1: take the let's you know, let's take the opposite. Let's

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Speaker 1: devil's advocate, like we talked about in our skepticism episodes. Okay,

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Speaker 1: how why are we saying that? Um, couldn't you just say, hey,

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Speaker 1: what if it's a club of coworkers hanging out, right,

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Speaker 1: if they're not doing anything illegal, is that their business?

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Speaker 1: Right there? Their public servants. But if they're not at

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Speaker 1: work and just their private lives, well there's a very

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Speaker 1: big difference I think between hanging out at a local

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Speaker 1: dive bar after work and getting a drink or something

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Speaker 1: you know, with your friends from your work, versus carrying

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Speaker 1: out a legal activities after work. You know, um where

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Speaker 1: you're all in the know, you all know what you're doing,

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Speaker 1: and you've got each other's backs to prevent anyone from

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Speaker 1: getting in trouble, and you know that if there's something

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Speaker 1: that goes sideways, you can probably count on your bosses

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Speaker 1: to help, you know, to help smooth things over right,

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Speaker 1: and pretty soon there won't even be a crack in

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Speaker 1: the wall where you were exposed. That's a really at

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Speaker 1: point the the thin blue line, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: a thing that some people debate but I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: It feels like loyalty is so highly important in law

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Speaker 1: enforcement that you know, that kind of protection is often

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Speaker 1: likely going to be offered to someone within the organization right,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily to cover up major illegal things, because we've

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Speaker 1: seen examples where those major illegal things get out it

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Speaker 1: at some point the question is is is it outed,

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Speaker 1: is it talked about? Is it prosecuted only at when

425
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: some thresholds met where it doesn't benefit the entire force anymore.

426
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, why does everybody hate internal affairs? Right?

427
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: And like what if you're not doing anything wrong? This

428
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: these are these are important questions. I mean, if we're

429
00:27:54,840 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: waxing poetic a bit, then there's almost something like heart

430
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: of Darkness Colonel Kurtz about it, about the worst extremes,

431
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: the idea that in hunting monsters, some members of the

432
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: law adopted too many of the same tactics, they drink

433
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: too deeply from the same cup and became monsters themselves,

434
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, there we go. And and some of

435
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: the same groups that are meant to combat gang activity

436
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: have for gangs of their own. Honestly, we're talking about

437
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: this just a little bit off air. There are too

438
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: many examples to cover in a single episode here, which

439
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: shows you the scope of the problem. There's too much

440
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: stuff going on, right, So we can look maybe at

441
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: some specific examples, knowing this is just the surface of

442
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: some very deep water, and then we can extrapolate from

443
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: there some very troubling things about other conspiracies that we

444
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: may not know about today. Uh let's start in los

445
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: ange lists, you know. Uh, let's specifically start with some

446
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: fantastic work by a journalist named series Castle Over at

447
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: Knock l a. So as we look into all of

448
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: this together, we want to make sure that everyone thinks

449
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: about the kinds of tactics that you may see deployed

450
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: where you live, including stuff like the officers of Scorpion

451
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: sending photos via text after beating Tyrene Nichols to death. Uh. Castle,

452
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, Men in knock l a UM did

453
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: a fifteen part series that dives into gangs existing within

454
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: the l A County Sheriff's Department UM, which is the

455
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: largest department of its kind in the entire United States.

456
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: You know, Los Angeles is a massive metro area and

457
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: what Castle found was beyond brutal. Yeah. Yeah, so at

458
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: least and so Castle's investigation, like you said, no it is,

459
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: it's a long read. Uh. This comes out in March,

460
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: so it's a couple of years old, now almost two

461
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: years old. But it's fantastic reporting and it's incredibly disturbing.

462
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: Castle finds that at least nineteen people have died at

463
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: the hands of these gangs, and all these gang members

464
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: are employed by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. And

465
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: despite all those deaths, there have been there at that

466
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: point been no real internal investigation, no policy changes, nothing.

467
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: Thankfully this has changed a little bit. Maybe we'll get

468
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: to it. Also, by the way, all of these nineteen

469
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: murder victims were non white males. And if you go

470
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: into Castle points this out in the reporting too. If

471
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: you go into the history of the Sheriff's department there,

472
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: even on their own website, they say, Okay, things were

473
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: kind of crazy in the beginning when we first started out.

474
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: You know, we might not have had uniforms, not everybody

475
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: knew what was going on, but we tried our best

476
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: and now we're way better. Um. They also knew about

477
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: gangs inside the Sheriff's department way before they told the public.

478
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: They knew about it more than fifty years ago. Is

479
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: beat me here, Paul, it's being crazy. Yeah, Um, it

480
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: doesn't sound real to me. It sounds this sounds like

481
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: a fiction story you'd watch on HBO. So in Vy

482
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: there's a journalist that gets killed. Person's name is Ruben Salazar.

483
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: It's like a video game. This is that's why this

484
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: is what it is. It's a video game and you

485
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: find this clue or whatever that leads you to the

486
00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: next thing. Um, there's a memo from three years later,

487
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: and on this memo we see a printed description of

488
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: this group called it's a weird name quote Little Devils,

489
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: which is kind of apple dumpling gang. Right. Um, if

490
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: a member of the Little Devils hadn't been the person

491
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: who through the tear gas can that killed Ruben Salazar

492
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: when he and his folks were inside this store cafe

493
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: area drinking and beer during this massive public protest um,

494
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: but yeah, they targeted him. They specifically went in there.

495
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: You can say detained, but I would say they went

496
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: in there to kill him. So the question is who

497
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: are these Little Devils? Right? Who are these Little Devils?

498
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: Is that just is that just a weird phrase that

499
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: the the author of this memorandum writes, No, it's the

500
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: name of a gang and they've revealed it. The captain

501
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: at that's time R. D. Campbell drew up a list

502
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: of known members of this gang. Little Devils listed forty

503
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: seven people, almost fifty deep this gang, and each of

504
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: these people had a specific red devil tattoo. And right now,

505
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: in three more than fifty years later, we don't know

506
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: whether anybody was disciplined at all. We know no one

507
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: was charged, including the guy who killed Salazar Z. But

508
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: we do know it was brought to the public's attention,

509
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: right theory. I mean, it was at least printed somewhere. Hey,

510
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: uh there's a gang. I don't know. I didn't see

511
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: that it was like actually printed in a newspaper or something.

512
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: I think, Well, the problem is that a lot of

513
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: these stories of um of abuse from these gangs using

514
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: the using the protection of the legal system, a lot

515
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: of this abuse never or makes it to the news

516
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: then or today, you know. So it's something that it's

517
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: kind of like a street knowledge, right, Like if you

518
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: live in the wrong neighborhood, you know very well who

519
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: these people are, and you know that they are organized,

520
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: But you also know a reporter or another cop isn't

521
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: going to pay attention to you, right, And if it

522
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: gets back to those guys, then they also know where

523
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: you live, right, They know where your kids go to school,

524
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: you know what time your mom comes home or your spouse. Uh.

525
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: So it's it gets dangerous really quickly, which again, these

526
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: are some of the same tactics that out and criminal

527
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: gangs use. The public exposure of the devil's then doesn't

528
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: do a lot to stop the development of these in

529
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: the system, others keep developing, and members of these gangs

530
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 1: rise through the ranks. They find themselves in positions of power,

531
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And you start you start

532
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 1: having to ask yourself, well, if somebody is the deputy

533
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: and they used to be you know, uh, the leader

534
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: of the three Thousand Boys, which is a real L

535
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: S L A S D gang name. Um, we'll get

536
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: to the gang names in a second. Then are they

537
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: going to crack down on their own people? It's very

538
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: rare for folks to do that, uh, which is why

539
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: whistleblowers become a genre all of their own. You know,

540
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: them boys do get up to some trouble, but dad gumming,

541
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: they're effective at their jobs exactly. You know, if he

542
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: was that bad, why wouldes barbecues be so much fun?

543
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: Or why would a rest rate you know, be so

544
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: good or whatever? The department m Yeah, exactly. You know

545
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: why Some have described him as a violent man, But

546
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 1: I think of him as a I think of him

547
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: as an artists. He's a little devil. Is is a scamp,

548
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: isn't he? I think we've all I think we're channeling

549
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: True Detective Season one, pretty hard right here, you know. Um,

550
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: but we should talk about whistleblowers because that's how a

551
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: lot of this news comes out. It comes out through

552
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: former employees. One in particular, a guy in Art Gonzalez,

553
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: who gives a firsthand look at gang culture in the

554
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Sheriff's Department and it's not good. Yeah. Gonzalis

555
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: essentially says that gang culture is deeply ingrained within law enforcement,

556
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: specifically in Los Angeles and in that area, the greater

557
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: area of Los Angeles. And and he's saying what we're

558
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: basically saying here. It's actively maybe not assisted, maybe just

559
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: enabled is a good word to use by the higher

560
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: up because it's it's almost like a known thing. The

561
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: closer knit my officers are, if you're somebody at the

562
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: top levels of one of these law enforcement agencies, the

563
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: closer knit my my folks are, the more effective they're

564
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 1: going to be at their jobs, the more they're gonna

565
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: have each other's backs. Uh. It's kind of disturbing to

566
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: think about. Yeah, yeah, it's like, well, I mean you're

567
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: also really really heavy psychological situation. You have to trust

568
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: someone that you're not related to biologically with your life,

569
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: and um that that has a huge impact on the

570
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 1: human mind. You know, Gonzalez talks about how these folks

571
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: have all the hallmarks of the stuff you imagine gangs doing.

572
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: We mentioned tattoos, their initiation rights, you know what I mean,

573
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: get beat in, get beat out, maybe you have to

574
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: kill someone, maybe you have to do us specific sort

575
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: of a thing. And then you know, they also have

576
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: a lot of behind the scenes like consigliari influence on

577
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: the day to day activities of the department. The leaders

578
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: of the higher ups in the in the gang system,

579
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: which is like a shadow command structure, right, the higher

580
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: ups are called shot callers, and there are shot keepers

581
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: excuse me, and they're the ones who are um able

582
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: to decide things like who gets assigned where, right, or

583
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, who is up for promotion, things like that. Yeah,

584
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: it really does make me think back to to that

585
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: David Simon series, you know, We Own the City. Um,

586
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: I haven't finished yet, but you know the idea of

587
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: like it's almost like a rip and run kind of

588
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: drug raids that are you know, disguised as kind of

589
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: like you know, on a seizure, but it ultimately is

590
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 1: just kind of like one gang robbing from another. Yeah,

591
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: and then think like okay, So here's another example of

592
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: just how corrupt the situation became. Gonzalez as a crisis

593
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: of faith, right and decides to do the right thing,

594
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: even though it means he knows it means to some

595
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 1: of his colleagues, crossing that thin blue line, and he

596
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: calls a secret whistle blower hotline. These have gone, These

597
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: have become very popular in a lot of large organizations.

598
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 1: You know, to be candid, our parent company has a

599
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: secret whistle blower hotline. Uh that I suppose is for

600
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: people who make a lot more money than we do.

601
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: But there's a So he calls this whistle lower hotline

602
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: and his identity is leaked in less than twenty four

603
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: hours to the entirety of his of his co workers.

604
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: Someone scrawls a rat on his locker. The retaliation begin ends.

605
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: But so he made a heavy sacrifice and because of

606
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:09,919
Speaker 1: his because this one guy decided to do the right thing,

607
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: he got punished, but he brought other people down the

608
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: right path, and somewhere like a little less than a

609
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: dozen or so folks followed in his footsteps. Law enforcement

610
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 1: coming out and saying, yeah, we can confirm this gang

611
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: activity and it includes criminal activity. Uh there there are

612
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: thousands of people in the l S. L A s

613
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:40,439
Speaker 1: D and other police departments have suffered from corruption. Other

614
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: police gangs have existed in other places. Obviously New Orleans,

615
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: right had some going pretty deep, but Los Angeles Sheriff's

616
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: departments seems to be the most riddled. And we're not

617
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: basing this on just one piece of admittedly amazing reporting.

618
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: There are other reporters who have talked about this as

619
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: as well as academics. This conspiracy is confirmed. Oh yes,

620
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: yes it is. I just want to mention something I

621
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 1: think is tangential to this, but it is also important. Uh.

622
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: In the ninet nineties, Los Angeles Police Department, so not

623
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 1: the Sheriff's department, but the police department had one of

624
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 1: these red dog like units that was functioning out there

625
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. It was the L A p D

626
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:34,919
Speaker 1: Rampart Divisions Crash Unit so c R a s H,

627
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: which by the way stood for Community Resources against Street Hoodlums.

628
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: Isn't that nice? Uh? So this was one of these

629
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: anti gang, anti drug, anti violence units that was functioning

630
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: pretty much in the way we're describing here as a gang.

631
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily a gang in the same way with

632
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: specific tattoos, with specific you know, science gangs lines and

633
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: other things like that. But that unit itself, the majority

634
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: of its members ended up getting caught up in an

635
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: internal investigation that got most of them in big trouble. Uh,

636
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: you could read all about this. You should read about it.

637
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: And I think we should do a whole episode on

638
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: the Crash Unit because they did everything from guys. They

639
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: were robbing banks. They at least robbed one bank to

640
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: aid get in situations. Sure, but they robbed one bank

641
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: to aid their criminal their other criminal activities. It's not

642
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: It was nuts, I've got it. That My My favorite

643
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: response for a while Albert's high, because I know him

644
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: over using it, is to just say, oh, you're getting

645
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 1: situations to many things. It's true, but that's not the

646
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: same thing as saying police should rob banks. Well, exactly,

647
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: very clear on that way. But I will say, at

648
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: least to my understanding, and maybe I'm way off based

649
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: on this, the reason why this group start doing so

650
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: many legal activities I think stems from their directive. Uh,

651
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: that's not really their directive. Maybe it's their internal directive

652
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: or they believe their mission was and that was literally

653
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 1: quote arrest gang members by any means necessary, which led,

654
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 1: you know, a slippery slope to like, oh, well we

655
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: we can you know, maybe we if we have to

656
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: perjure ourselves on the stand just to make sure this

657
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: person that we know did bad things goes away, maybe

658
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 1: we'll do it. Well, if we have to plant evidence

659
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: on somebody, maybe we'll do it, you know, down the line,

660
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: greater good argument all every way, like every step of

661
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: the way. Yeah, and this is this is dangerous. Um

662
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: and this this again is important ongoing conspiracy. Uh. And

663
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: the ongoing part is the part that should bother you

664
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: the most, folks. I suggest we pause for words from

665
00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: our sponsor and then we return with something from the

666
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: present day. All right, we've returned. We mentioned some of

667
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: the reporting here. In addition to Castle's work, Uh, there's

668
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: a great piece by Andrew Buncomb writing for The Guardian

669
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: in one and uh this Uh. In this piece we

670
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: see confirmation about the extent of gang activity within the

671
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department, as well as learning a little bit more

672
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: about the culture of these things, of these organizations. You

673
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: can see there an example of the individual tattoos. Um. Well,

674
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: there's one that kind of looks like a skeleton with

675
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: a machine gun and something that's either a pith helmet

676
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: or a maybe a German World War two era helmet.

677
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: It's not a cutting look, but it but it does

678
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 1: identify this person as a member of a gang called

679
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,439
Speaker 1: the Executioners. And yet you know it ranges these kinds

680
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 1: of tattoos and symbols ranged like skeletons is very popular

681
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: and bones, it's very popular. A lot of the pirate

682
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 1: symbols are popular. But you know, you've also got things

683
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: like numbers you just see like a random number. Oh

684
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: wait that those numbers together just mean you're gang. Okay,

685
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: mm hmmm mm hmmm. Yeah. Oh and it's specifically collision

686
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: and cough. Sorry. Yeah, So the when they do have

687
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 1: the twenty eight written there these these are the Compton Executioners. Uh,

688
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: and a lot of their activities mirror prison gangs. I don't.

689
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: I still think we haven't done the We haven't done

690
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: an episode on the South Africa him prison gangs. We

691
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: might have to, but it needs a disclaimer for sure. Anyway. Uh.

692
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: These journalists, their work is also supported by academics like

693
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: Sean Kennedy at the Loyola Law School Center for Juvenile

694
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: Law and Policy. Uh, he was able to trace the

695
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: existence of at least eighteen police gangs in l A

696
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: alone back to the seventies. And they've got names that

697
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: we should probably round robin. Um. They've got names like

698
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 1: the band Yeah, the Bandidos, the Buffalo Soldiers, the Caveman,

699
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, the Grim Reapers, the jump Out Boys my favorite. Yeah,

700
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: it's like I got you, hey, spook. Yeah, that's a

701
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: really scary thing. I was. I was watching videos on

702
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: the Red Dog Unit here in Atlanta, and just the

703
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: tactic of being in cars waiting for something happened. Then

704
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: all of these police jump out of cars at one time,

705
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: like unmarked cars and just chase people down the street.

706
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: It's terrifying. Uh. We've also got the Pirates, the Posse

707
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: and the Rattlesnakes, the Regulators, the Spartans, that Tasmanian Devils,

708
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 1: the three thousand Boys, the two thousand, not quite as always,

709
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: the three thousand and the two thousand boys. We're saying,

710
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: let's be reasonable, three thousands a lot. That's like a block, right,

711
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: of course, that's exactly I'm sure that's exactly right. Um,

712
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: let's see the vikings, the wayside whities and and how

713
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: and how can we forget about our pals, the executioners

714
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: who have definitely been you know in the news of late. Yeah,

715
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: there's a real connotation there with that name, uh rattlesnake, dangerous, fomous. Well,

716
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: and they only do one thing right, right, And and

717
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: we also know the providence of some of these names.

718
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: For example, the caveman gay comes from their awesome beards.

719
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: It comes from a place I think they're more mustache crowd,

720
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: you know, call of facial air, right, but they law

721
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: enforcement loves mustaches. It's weird anyway. But the it comes

722
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: from a room where uh, male law enforcement guys would

723
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: rest before they had to go testify in court, and

724
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 1: people start calling it the cave and then they start

725
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: calling the cave men. And then of course, if you

726
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: are called the court a lot of pretty often because

727
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: you push in the line, then you become a caveman.

728
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: And now we're a gang and we know each other. Um.

729
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 1: So that's one. That's one example of how the stuff evolves.

730
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: The big, the big difference between these groups and out

731
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: and out criminal gangs is that law enforcement gangs have

732
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: a much more a robust ability to cover their tracks

733
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: to avoid accountability. Right. In short, it is tough to

734
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: arrest the people who themselves arrest people who watches the

735
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: Watchman and so on, and without accountability, these issues continue

736
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: to metasta size, like the cancer that they truly are.

737
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: The public knows about this. You see politicians in Los

738
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 1: Angeles saying, hey, before they found out I was in politics,

739
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: I was terrified because, you know, like nine sheriff cars

740
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: rolled up on me insisting I had run a red

741
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: light and I know I didn't. Uh Like it's it's terrifying,

742
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And there are also some pretty solid

743
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: accusations about how they're profiling and targeting certain people based

744
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: on what they present like right, what their race looks like,

745
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: what their gender looks like, and so on. And as

746
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: a result, gangs became a huge focal point in the

747
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: t shareff election in Los Angeles because sheriff's are elected. Uh,

748
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: this is where we got to look at the incumbent sheriff,

749
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: alex Via Nueva, who was very much part of the problem. Yeah,

750
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 1: because Alex said, guys, gangs aren't a problem, and the

751
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: police force, come on, we solve that that's done. That's

752
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: not even an issue anymore. And you're gonna call groups

753
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: of these officers gangs. That is racist. Shame on you.

754
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, calling them gangs is racist. And they would

755
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 1: say stuff like, hey, I'm the first sheriff and over

756
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: a hundred years who speaks fluent Spanish. You guys are racist.

757
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,919
Speaker 1: You're racist against my people, his people being, of course,

758
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 1: the employees of the Sheriff's department. Anyway, he lost the

759
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: election to a guy named Robert Luna. Robert Luna has

760
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: vowed to tackle the ongoing internal gang issue with this conspiracy.

761
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: We'll see, um. But as of last month January, as

762
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: we're recording this, Los Angeles decided that Via Nueva could

763
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: not be compelled to cooperate in the new probe of

764
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: deputy gangs l A. So good news, l A is

765
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: doing an investigation. Bad news, they're not requiring the people

766
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,439
Speaker 1: who could be the most helpful in it to help.

767
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: And to be fair, of the person who could have

768
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: been the most helpful is the one who said this

769
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: isn't a problem. Oh yeah, right, right exactly. So we'll

770
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: see how it goes. I mean, as we said at

771
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: the top, defining a gang can be murky. They are

772
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: shadow organizations. Uh, the ones that we're talking about today

773
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: certainly don't like the term, but various parts of law

774
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 1: enforcement have been called gangs by the public, and in

775
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 1: this case, the court of public opinion is basing that

776
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: definition on the actions that they see in the street

777
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: by these individuals in these groups, things like Scorpions and

778
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: Memphis recently demanded, uh disbanded, Red Dogs in Atlanta disbanded.

779
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: But there's an interesting little red string we have to

780
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: connect these two. The strings name is c J. Yeah,

781
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: Sarah Lynn c J. Davis. And if this name sounds familiar,

782
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,320
Speaker 1: we had mentioned earlier in the show how there was

783
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: a news hook about the Red Dogs, and Matt you

784
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: had mentioned it was kind of as part of another

785
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: news story that really was sort of the focus, and

786
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 1: that was the murder of Tyree Nichols. The same police

787
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: chief that headed up the Red Dogs in Atlanta, which

788
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 1: was disbanded, went on to head up the very similar

789
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: type of unit in Memphis during the time where Tyree

790
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: Davis was murdered. So, Cyrilan c J. Davis, is that string,

791
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: that red thread that you're talking about, Matt, Yeah, it's

792
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: very upsetting. I want to point out here that ap D,

793
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: while Red Dogs or Red Dog was disbanded, there is

794
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: a new unit of a similar style group I guess

795
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,879
Speaker 1: that's happening right now in Atlanta called the Titan Unit,

796
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: and there's very little reporting on this unit what it's doing.

797
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 1: We haven't seen anybody, you know, on the ground level

798
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: of reporter learning about what the Titan Unit is doing

799
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 1: in Atlanta right now. They've been in operation since. If

800
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: you have information on that, we'd love to hear from you. Yes, absolutely,

801
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 1: because again, you know, without sounding too cynical, it's almost like, oh,

802
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: the Burger King has closed and the Sandwich Emperor has opened.

803
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 1: It's brand new, it's totally different. Never mind that it's

804
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: in the same building and the same people work there,

805
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it's it's the name

806
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: shifting stuff, very black Rock, Very Academi or x C

807
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: or whatever they're calling themselves this week. And if the

808
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 1: public doesn't hold these organizations accountable to the best of

809
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: their ability, then there will be no impetus to change

810
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: because people like power with this. We want to hear

811
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 1: your thoughts, you know, is this I mean for a

812
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: lot of people listening today, These active, ongoing conspiracies indicate

813
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 1: a need for course correction. Right, maybe better policies can

814
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: address the problem, can save innocent lives for others. This

815
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 1: is only shining a light on a long running, terrifying

816
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: aspect of life in America, known all too well by

817
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: many of our fellow listeners today. I mean, look, since

818
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 1: we put a good mob at the top, why don't

819
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: we end with TUPAC. Not for nothing? Did TUPAC su

820
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: cor say police are the biggest gang in America? What

821
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: do you think about that statement? You know, we we

822
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: we're being objective here. We're just giving giving the facts

823
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: and tracing the evolution of this conspiracy. But how would

824
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: you recommend fixing the problem? What's something that more people

825
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: need to know. We're asking both our conspiracy realist in

826
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: the crowd who are civilians, and our conspiracy realist in

827
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: the crowd who work in law enforcement themselves. We'd love

828
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: to hear from you. We try to be easy to

829
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: find on uh the Internet, I was doing so well, stumbled, Well,

830
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: if you're an officer, you can just look up our

831
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: names probably and find our address. As you said, ben so,

832
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: just over the bridge that's right. You can find us

833
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: all over the internet. We are a conspiracy stuff on Twitter,

834
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: YouTube and Facebook. Conspiracy stuff show on Instagram and TikTok.

835
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: But there's more. Yes, we have a phone number. It

836
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: is one eight three three st d w y t K.

837
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 1: Put that number in your phone as a contact. Trust us.

838
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,760
Speaker 1: Just do it and then you can call it whenever

839
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: you feel like it, especially if you're listening to an

840
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: episode or if you have an epiphany. At three or

841
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: four am. You got three minutes to leave a message.

842
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know in

843
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: the message if we can use your name and voice

844
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: on the air. If you don't want to do that stuff,

845
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

846
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff

847
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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know is a production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.