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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, and welcome back to Coast to Coast Doctor

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Speaker 1: Sarah wept with us, and we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about his work on RFK. Robert F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King,

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Speaker 1: Elvis Presley. But Sarah, we've got your partner, Charles Bosworth

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Speaker 1: Junior on the phone, who co wrote the book with you,

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Speaker 1: who killed John Bee Ramsey, And let's talk about that

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Speaker 1: right now. Charlie, welcome, my friend. Have you been terrific George.

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Speaker 1: I've been listening in how are you doing in? Hello

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Speaker 1: to Cyril. Charlie. Hello, so a long time my friend.

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Speaker 1: I hook you're well. I'm well and I hope you

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Speaker 1: are too, Sarah. When you two wrote this book, I

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Speaker 1: was doing a local show in Saint Louis called the Nighthawk,

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Speaker 1: and Charlie was my guest. He was at the Saint

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Speaker 1: Louis Post Dispatch at the time and he was my guest.

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Speaker 1: And he has spent hours on the program raving about

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Speaker 1: your work as well. And Charlie, how did that team

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Speaker 1: work begin between you and Cyril on this case? Well?

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Speaker 1: Are we had a mutual publisher from works we had

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Speaker 1: done before, and she asked me if I would be

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Speaker 1: willing to co author another book. I had done a

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Speaker 1: few co author books to be in the beginning, and

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Speaker 1: I said I'd consider it, but you know what was

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Speaker 1: the case? And she said, well, it's it's a case

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Speaker 1: involving a fabulous forensic pathologist from Pittsburgh who's the corner

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Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh. And I said, well, what's what's the case?

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Speaker 1: Is that a local Pittsburgh case or what She said, No,

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Speaker 1: it's it's this case from Colorado, this John Boney Ramsey case.

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Speaker 1: And I said, so you're asking me if if I'd

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Speaker 1: like to work with a world renowned forensic pathologist on

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Speaker 1: the number one murder mystery in the world right now? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I'd be interested in that. And so then

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Speaker 1: Cyril and I got together and spent a few days

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Speaker 1: at the beginning getting to know each other and working

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Speaker 1: together on the on the case and h and it

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Speaker 1: took off from there. It was. It was a terrific experience.

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Speaker 1: I had a chance to see the outside of the

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Speaker 1: Jean Bennet Ramsey House in Boulder, Colorado. I go there

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Speaker 1: every month to tape some television programs and just just

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Speaker 1: looking at it from the outside. You two, it was

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Speaker 1: just you could feel the emotion just by looking at

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Speaker 1: the house that the tragic day on Christmas of nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety six was was horrible and still it's still the

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Speaker 1: cases open. I walked the grounds at great length. I

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Speaker 1: did not get inside the house, but I did walk

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Speaker 1: the grounds. It was empty at the time, and so

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Speaker 1: I was able to look in the windows and get

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Speaker 1: a get a good feeling for the layout of the house,

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Speaker 1: and go back to the to the window of basement

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Speaker 1: window that that we believe probably was the access was

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Speaker 1: said to be access to the to the house. All

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Speaker 1: of those kind of bits of evidence that piled up

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Speaker 1: during that investigation. Cheryl, it's unbelievable. The little girl would

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Speaker 1: be about thirty years old right now. Yes, a great tragedy.

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Speaker 1: I want to say it was a wonderful experience working

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Speaker 1: with Charlie Rose. He's an excellent journalist and a true gentleman,

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Speaker 1: and we got along fabulously, and I'm very proud of

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Speaker 1: the book to Charlie and I wrote Who Killed John

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Speaker 1: Van A Ramsey and revised edition which has a complete

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Speaker 1: autopsy report and a judicial decision on an important matter.

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Speaker 1: This case remains, as you say, unsolved, and that's because

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Speaker 1: it was never properly handled from the beginning. Instead of

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Speaker 1: interrogating immediately separately the father and the mother, which should

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Speaker 1: have been done, that was never done, and it was

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Speaker 1: the investigation was handled by copst and Boulder. I think

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Speaker 1: they had one other homicide that year and one homicide

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Speaker 1: the year before, no experience. They did not call him

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Speaker 1: the FBI Colorado of investigation. Then you had a district attorney,

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Speaker 1: Alex Hunter, who should have been a criminal defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: He had a pre bargain rate of about ninety eight

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Speaker 1: to nine. He just suggesting that he wasn't intelligent or

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Speaker 1: that he was an evil man. He just wasn't interested

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Speaker 1: in pursuing and prosecuting cases. And that is how it happened.

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Speaker 1: It's a third case, as Charlie and I point out,

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Speaker 1: had to go along with a foreign interloper. There was

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Speaker 1: no or outside intruder. I should say there's no outside intruder.

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Speaker 1: He said story the mother is since dead, the father's

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Speaker 1: still alive, the brothers still out there. He sued CBS

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Speaker 1: for what and apparently they settled out of court for

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Speaker 1: something on that and we probably will never find out

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Speaker 1: what happened. I mean, there was there was a drifter

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Speaker 1: Charlie was there not who claimed he might have been

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Speaker 1: involved in that. Well, there was a very odd fellow

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Speaker 1: who was actually living in Thailand at the time, who

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Speaker 1: claimed that he was present when she was killed. And

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Speaker 1: Cyril and I talked and said that that was one

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Speaker 1: of the most absurd things we'd ever heard. And they

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Speaker 1: actually brought him back to the States from Thailand and

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Speaker 1: did an investigation. Of course, it didn't pan out at all,

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Speaker 1: and his DNA didn't match, and it was a complete

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Speaker 1: waste of time. But that was as close as they

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Speaker 1: had ever come to the thinking that they may have

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Speaker 1: had a break in the case. Well again, and now

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Speaker 1: immediately there was no way that that could have happened

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Speaker 1: by that man. Well they ever solved this case, Earle,

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Speaker 1: I do not believe so I would love to be optimistic,

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Speaker 1: but as you say, the mother is dead, the major

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Speaker 1: figures are dead. I guess father is still around, but

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Speaker 1: it's too late. The evidences now become tainted. It's not

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Speaker 1: that the session of limitations has a run. I think

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Speaker 1: that technically speaking, it was a homicide, although I do

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Speaker 1: not believe that it was intended to be a homicide.

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Speaker 1: It was a sex game of a perverted nature that

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Speaker 1: I believe John Ramsey played with the little girl. His

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Speaker 1: wife was out of the sex business. Stage four ovarian cancer.

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Speaker 1: The surgery, chemo radiation, therapy, and the autopsy finding showed

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Speaker 1: chronic inflammation of the vaginal lining tocal erosion at the

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Speaker 1: seven o'clock position. Picture a woman on the guindy table

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Speaker 1: being examined by a guynecologist, the index figure going in

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Speaker 1: at a seven o'clock position and then under polarized light

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Speaker 1: by refringent material, the most common source of which in

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Speaker 1: our households is talking Potter. This is a game that

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Speaker 1: had been played before tragic. Indeed, Charles, we're going to

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Speaker 1: take calls with Cyril next hour, and we would invite

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Speaker 1: you to come back if you want to join him.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to. Okay, great, I'll have Tom call you

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Speaker 1: back in about twenty minutes or so. Okay, excellent, All right,

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Speaker 1: thanks Charles Bosworth Junior used to write for the Saint

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Speaker 1: Louis Post Dispatch. Thomas Nagucci hired you as a consultant

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Speaker 1: on the Robert F. Kennedy tragedy back in nineteen sixty eight.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about that situation. I've got some doubts about

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Speaker 1: Sir Hand, Sir Hand acting alone, if he did it

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Speaker 1: at all. You're absolutely right. Tom Nagucci and I had

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Speaker 1: become friends a young man, by the way, today's birthday.

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Speaker 1: By the way, sirl he's ninety four today today. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I did chocolate Tom last week. Thank you all to

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Speaker 1: give him a call. He's He was a wonderful friends

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Speaker 1: of apologist, long retired, and he did call me in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night telling me that Roberah Kennedy

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Speaker 1: had been shot. He didn't need any advice for me

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Speaker 1: about the autopsy, but he wanted to try to see

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Speaker 1: if I had any suggestions about how we keeping the

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Speaker 1: government officials from taking the senator's body out of la

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Speaker 1: as they had done with John F. Kennedy out of Dallas.

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Speaker 1: I suggested to Tom that he invite immediately the proactive

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Speaker 1: military forensic apologists to come there and be his observers.

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Speaker 1: He did that, and it worked out, and there's complete

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Speaker 1: unanimity unity of opinion about his case by all of

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Speaker 1: the consultants. I was one of the three civilians, three military,

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Speaker 1: some professors there that this case was not handled properly,

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Speaker 1: and you got a small foreign faction referred to in

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Speaker 1: the ransom note demanding one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars,

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Speaker 1: a nice rhyme sum, which was the amount of the

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Speaker 1: bonus that the father had received from his company of

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Speaker 1: the year before. And then, after having done all of

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Speaker 1: these things in such an incredibly manipulative, further successful fashion,

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Speaker 1: he forgets one thing. He had found paper and pencil

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night to write a ransom note.

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Speaker 1: In fact, he did not like the beginning couple to paper,

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Speaker 1: started to write again, we represent a small foreign faction,

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Speaker 1: blah blah, blah blah. And then he leaves the house.

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Speaker 1: And what did he forget? What was the one mistake

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Speaker 1: he made? He left the body the forty five time package.

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Speaker 1: You've just written the ransom note. Why not take the body,

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Speaker 1: And you've got to take the body right, just kidnapping

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Speaker 1: to it and the seur into a river, whatever you're

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Speaker 1: going to do with it. He leaves the body. And

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Speaker 1: that is the outside instruder theory that the family and

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Speaker 1: their supporters have set forth over all these years. We're

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Speaker 1: going to know outside intruder. We're going to take calls

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Speaker 1: next hour with Sarah Wacked. His website, of course, is

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Speaker 1: linked up at Coast to coastam dot com. His book,

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Speaker 1: the latest book that he's written, is called The Life

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Speaker 1: and Deaths of Sarah Wacked. He's it's an amazing book.

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Speaker 1: The one he wrote with Charlie Bosworth Junior is called

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Speaker 1: Who Killed John but a Ramsey? When you were called

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Speaker 1: in on the RFK situations, what did you see anything

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Speaker 1: unusual about that? Okay, yes, indeed, well I always ask people, George,

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Speaker 1: how far was Sarhand Sarhand? Robert Kennedy just won the

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Speaker 1: Democratic nomination for president and la he was at the

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Speaker 1: Ambassador Hotel. They knew if they took him out to

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Speaker 1: the front he'd never make it for hours with all

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Speaker 1: of his admirers. So they said, let's walk out through

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Speaker 1: the back way. And there was sar Hand, Sarhan and

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Speaker 1: Sarhand in front of him, and as a connomy proceeded,

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Speaker 1: Sarhand shot and what was the distance of the fatal shot?

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Speaker 1: The distance of the fatal shot that killed Robert Kennedy,

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Speaker 1: fired slightly above and behind the radio, was one to

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Speaker 1: one and a half inches with a slightly forward trajectory.

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Speaker 1: At no time in the world was Sarhand anywhere near

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Speaker 1: one to one and a half inches with his gun.

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Speaker 1: Sarhand was a shooter, and there was a second shooter.

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Speaker 1: There were thirteen fourteen shots fired. He had an eight caliber.

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Speaker 1: He had an eight loaded gun which was knocked out

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Speaker 1: of his hand immediately by Carlo Yuker, the big major

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Speaker 1: d sure as hell, never though, did that gun? Absolutely

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Speaker 1: incredible how they've gotten away with it, and how that

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Speaker 1: finding was never introduced at the trial. If anybody's wondering,

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Speaker 1: how is it possible? What is work telling me that

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Speaker 1: I'm explaining to you, why? Because the prosecution never asked

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Speaker 1: that question of doctor Rgucci, and the defense attorney, who

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Speaker 1: wasn't experienced defense attorney interestingly never bothered to ask doctor Nrgucci,

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Speaker 1: what was the trajectory of the shot that killed Robert

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Speaker 1: Academy one to one and a half inches? Wow. Now

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Speaker 1: to this day, Sirhan Sirhan now says that he has

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Speaker 1: no recollection of what happened that night. Is that possible?

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Speaker 1: Is that conceivable? Well? Yes, he claimed that he was

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Speaker 1: probably hypnotized, whether unwittingly or not, But he claims to

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Speaker 1: have no information or recollection of that case, and despite

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Speaker 1: efforts by Attorney Bill et Pepper and others, he remains

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Speaker 1: in jail and credibly, with this hard forensic scientific evidence

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Speaker 1: of an in controvertibal indisputable nature, he remains in jail

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Speaker 1: and nobody has ever been able to get a second

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Speaker 1: trial a hearing. And it's just just unbelievable. How many

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Speaker 1: other shooters do you think we're in their total? One

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Speaker 1: other one other shooter. Directly behind and to the right,

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Speaker 1: there was a private security guard, Eugene thing Caesar, Caesar

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Speaker 1: and his gun. He had a gun, was never taken,

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Speaker 1: was never tested. When they finally got around to looking

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Speaker 1: for it, he had sold it to somebody else. That

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Speaker 1: person sold another individual. They attracted down to a guy

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Speaker 1: in Arkansas and he said, yeah, he had the gun,

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Speaker 1: but it had been stolen from him. So that weapon

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Speaker 1: in the hands of Eugene thing Caesar, the private security

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Speaker 1: guard who was a big right winger, by the way,

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Speaker 1: directly behind Robert Kennedy, he was never tested. Nineteen seventy seven,

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest rock stars and stars in general

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Speaker 1: found dead in his house, Elvis Presley, you were called

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Speaker 1: in on that Yes, I was Jerry Francisco. The medical

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Speaker 1: examiner ruled that it was not his case, and the

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Speaker 1: autopsy was going to be done by a private autopsy,

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Speaker 1: and they knew they could get away without having it done,

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Speaker 1: so it was done at Memphis Baptist Hospital by doctor

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Speaker 1: Muir mui R. Francisco, having given up jurisdiction, nevertheless went

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Speaker 1: to the hospital and before the autopsy was even completed,

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Speaker 1: and obviously before he could study microscopic slides, before any

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Speaker 1: toxicological results came back, he was already proclaiming very improperly

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Speaker 1: that Elvis Presley had died from heart disease. Elvis Presley

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Speaker 1: did not have heart disease as slightly in large heart,

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Speaker 1: not that much. Elvis Presley died from a eleven central

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Speaker 1: nervous system drugs that had been prescribed for him by

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Speaker 1: his in house position, doctor Nicopolis, good old doctor nick

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Speaker 1: Whatever Elvis wandered the drug did the body can't take that.

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Speaker 1: His heart his heart stopped, there's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 1: But because of all these drugs. Yeah, he spent three

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Speaker 1: or four hours a day in the bathroom because of

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Speaker 1: the constipation. His colon. They said it was almost the

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Speaker 1: girth of the average man's fig and the poor guy

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Speaker 1: and yeah, eleven centstel Ovous systems drugs. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: done hundreds and hundreds thousands of drug abuse cases. Is

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Speaker 1: classical and there was no malevolence. I don't believe for

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Speaker 1: one moment. But that is what happened, and that is

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Speaker 1: what killed Elvis Presley. Why didn't anybody who was close

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Speaker 1: to him, Sirles say stop this right now? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who was that doctor viewer to his credit,

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Speaker 1: the photologist who did the autopsy, he disagreed with Francisco

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Speaker 1: and bade the public. Why the family did not pursue it?

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Speaker 1: And you know, you can ask the same question about

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Speaker 1: Robert Kennedy and John Kennedy. Why did the family not

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Speaker 1: pursue it? You know, I've got four kids, and I

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Speaker 1: think I know of it pretty well that if anything

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Speaker 1: like that happened to me, I know that they would

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Speaker 1: never give up the fights. I know I know that,

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Speaker 1: but I you know, I'm not here to criticize families.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what went through their thoughts, who spoke

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Speaker 1: to them, what it was all about, But nobody pursued

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Speaker 1: the case. Were you called in at all on the

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Speaker 1: Michael Jackson the situation or not. Yes, Yes, I was

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Speaker 1: consulted by many of those media people and I resumed.

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Speaker 1: I reviewed those fine news. There's no question he died

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Speaker 1: from a drug overdose. Propofol and another drug which very

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Speaker 1: extremely powerful. One of those drugs is used when you

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Speaker 1: have a barrier examination of your cold and you don't

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Speaker 1: even know that it's being done and you're talking to

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Speaker 1: the doctor. Next thing you know, he's selling everything's fine

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Speaker 1: to see in five years. That's how powerful that drug was.

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Speaker 1: And the doctor, I think his name was Murray, Charles Murray,

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Speaker 1: a certified internist who was being paid a very handsome

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Speaker 1: sum for watching over Michael Jackson, did a terrible job,

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Speaker 1: and some Miael Jackson got the drugs and took them

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Speaker 1: and he died clearly clearly a drug overdose death. Tragic.

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Speaker 1: Whitney Houston same kind of thing, but yeah, Whitney was

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Speaker 1: the same kind of thing. Found in the bathtub or

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Speaker 1: some question about whether she has drowned or accidentally or homicidally, No,

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Speaker 1: she did not drowned, as she had drugs and that's

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Speaker 1: what killed Whitney Houston a great tragedy of another major talent.

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Speaker 1: How does this happen to these great people, Syl. I mean, well,

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Speaker 1: that's a good question, and you probably want to ask

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Speaker 1: a forensic psychiatrist, although I've always been interested in psychiatry,

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Speaker 1: especially as it relates to these kinds of deaths. And

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Speaker 1: when you think of the incredible talents that we have lost,

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Speaker 1: Oh my gods from drugs. Philip Symore Hoffman here, and

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Speaker 1: they were Blushi and a couple of Hollywood people, and

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Speaker 1: so it's incredible. I guess the pressure is so great,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, and then they get started and then

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Speaker 1: that's it. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every

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Speaker 1: weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast am dot com for more