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Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather

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Speaker 1: Friends Media. Today's episode for Great Art we grateful. Obviously

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Speaker 1: we have this podcast right and it's about black storytelling,

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Speaker 1: so that means that we care about black storytelling.

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Speaker 2: Yes, one would assume. Do you agree?

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Speaker 1: You're on a stand right now. So all of this

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Speaker 1: that we do on this podcast is based on gratitude,

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Speaker 1: I would say, because we wouldn't be talking about black

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Speaker 1: storytelling and wanted to share it in the ways that

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Speaker 1: we do and learn about it in the ways that

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Speaker 1: we do, and think critically about it in the ways

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Speaker 1: that we do unless we were thankful for it. Today

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Speaker 1: we are specifically talking about gratitude. So how do you

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Speaker 1: feel about gratitude in general?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 1: Is it as an emotion in a state of being?

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Speaker 1: Is it something that you're connected to?

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Speaker 2: I say, I would probably need to lean into it more.

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Speaker 2: But it's like sometimes you're definitely grateful for what you have,

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Speaker 2: but you also take it for granted and you only

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Speaker 2: realize you're grateful for it when it's not there.

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Speaker 4: I guess I never know what you got, So let's

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Speaker 4: go that's me. I know I got it. Oh no,

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Speaker 4: what y'all?

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Speaker 1: Long?

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Speaker 2: I don't know I got it. I've e bulshin, But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's definitely a practice that I need to lean into more.

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Speaker 2: I'd say, how about you.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm pretty good at it, and I'm better

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Speaker 1: at it now. It's been easier for me to get

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Speaker 1: better at it over time because with life comes experience,

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Speaker 1: and with experience comes a lot of loss over time.

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Speaker 1: So I'm grateful for everything that I've gone through. You know,

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's easier to step back now at

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Speaker 1: this point in my life and look at.

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Speaker 4: Like, oh, like I'm here, that's what's up.

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Speaker 1: Like I could have really not been here right now,

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Speaker 1: because not all of life is easy, like many parts

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Speaker 1: of it, our struggle not just by virtue of all

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Speaker 1: the identities that we show up in but like in

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Speaker 1: our own individual lives. So long answer, but the short

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Speaker 1: answer is I think I'm decent at it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, humble, humble gal.

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Speaker 1: But we got to give it up to all the

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Speaker 1: black storytellers and the black stories that we learn from

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Speaker 1: and we love from because the gratitude. I know, I

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Speaker 1: just made that really serious, But gratitude doesn't always have

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Speaker 1: to be such a serious thing. Sometimes it's serious, yes,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes the black stories are life changing, they're world changing,

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Speaker 1: they're about really serious parts of people's lives. People want

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Speaker 1: to share them for really big and bold reasons. And

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Speaker 1: then sometimes it's just like the stories that we're grateful

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Speaker 1: for are just like it made me feel better that day. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm grateful this exists exactly, it.

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Speaker 4: Exists in the world.

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Speaker 1: So today we like to shout out a few stories

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Speaker 1: that we're thankful exist in this world, Like we are

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Speaker 1: so lucky they didn't just remain a thought in their

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Speaker 1: creator's mind, shared it with us, and are we better

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Speaker 1: for it? Stories big and small are worthy of our flowers.

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Speaker 1: So this episode is just a little reminder to reflect

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Speaker 1: on the stories that we appreciate.

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Speaker 2: So, Eaves, what story are you grateful for that has

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Speaker 2: been told?

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Speaker 1: The black story that I brought today is Carrie May

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Speaker 1: Wiams's Kitchen Table series. So I picked this because it

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Speaker 1: had a real emotional effect on me when I first

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Speaker 1: saw it, and I think that is a very important

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Speaker 1: part of the things that we value. You know, of course,

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Speaker 1: there are always the ways that it's impactful and maybe

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Speaker 1: political or social ways, and of course all of those

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Speaker 1: are valid, but there is an unexplainable emotion that came

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Speaker 1: up in me when I first saw the Kitchen Table series,

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Speaker 1: and I react that way to a lot of Carrie

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Speaker 1: May Wims's work. I think the first time that I

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Speaker 1: saw her work in person was at Spellman at their

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Speaker 1: art museum many years ago, and I just could not

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Speaker 1: stop staring at it. But with the Kitchen Table series,

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Speaker 1: just so everyone who hasn't seen it, it is photographs

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Speaker 1: and then it has accompanying text. So she started taking

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Speaker 1: the photographs in nineteen eighty nine and then finished the

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Speaker 1: series in nineteen ninety, and she took the photographs before

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Speaker 1: she came up with a text. I think her story

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Speaker 1: is that she went on a long drive, took her

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Speaker 1: recorder with her as she always did, and then came

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Speaker 1: up with the text for it afterwards. So if you

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Speaker 1: look at the photographs, there are all black and white photographs,

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Speaker 1: is twenty of them, and she's the main character. But

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Speaker 1: then she has a cast of other people around her.

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Speaker 1: So there's like her lover, there are her daughters, there

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Speaker 1: are her friends that are in the photographs with her,

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Speaker 1: and she presents herself in a variety of scenes. So

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Speaker 1: every single scene is set around this table, this butcher

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Speaker 1: block table. There is a single light of pendant light

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Speaker 1: with the like triangular lampshade hanging over it, so it's

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Speaker 1: black and white, but you can tell that the light

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Speaker 1: is lit. So you're looking down on this table as

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Speaker 1: if you're on one side of the table, and you

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Speaker 1: have these long lines leading on either side of the

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Speaker 1: table to the end of what seems like a pretty

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Speaker 1: small room or small small area of the room, and

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Speaker 1: the people who are in it are usually they're on

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Speaker 1: that side of the table, closer to the opposite walls,

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Speaker 1: and so every one of the photographs is taken from

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Speaker 1: that perspective. Some of her doing things like putting lipstick

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Speaker 1: on with her daughter. Another one of her interacting with

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Speaker 1: a bird in a bird cage. There's another one of

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Speaker 1: her comforting her lover who's in the picture. There is

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Speaker 1: another one of her laughing with her friends, playing cards, smoking,

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Speaker 1: They are half empty alcohol bottles in the pictures and

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Speaker 1: things like that. So they are domestic scenes. There are

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Speaker 1: scenes of camaraderie and kinship. There are scenes of family life.

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Speaker 1: There are scenes that feel like things are unsaid, like

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Speaker 1: you can tell something's going on because one person's in

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Speaker 1: the background with their arms crossed looking at another person

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Speaker 1: while they seem to be in some sort of distress,

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Speaker 1: So you can tell there's conflict. Just by looking at

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Speaker 1: the pictures, you can feel the tension that happens between people,

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Speaker 1: and to me, it feels like there's so much tenderness

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Speaker 1: and warmth in the photos because even though they're black

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Speaker 1: and white, the lighting that she uses and the postures

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Speaker 1: that she uses give it that feeling. And they are

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Speaker 1: staged photos, they're not candid photos. So all of the

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Speaker 1: choices that were made were choices for sure. So as

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Speaker 1: part of the series, there were also fourteen text sheets

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Speaker 1: and that had its own narrative, and I am so

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Speaker 1: grateful that she ended up adding those to it because

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Speaker 1: I really like the balance between the photos and the text.

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Speaker 1: The text essentially tells this story of her and her

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Speaker 1: lover and how she felt about it, how she was

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Speaker 1: reflecting on things like marriage and monogamy and partnership with people, relationships, motherhood,

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Speaker 1: all of these huge topics that she boiled down into

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Speaker 1: these fourteen slides of text to further illustrate the story

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Speaker 1: that was happening throughout the course of these photos. Because

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Speaker 1: you can from the story. The photos alone, see this

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Speaker 1: story of a woman moving through life, and that there

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Speaker 1: is a larger world outside of the world that was

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Speaker 1: taking place in this kitchen right, which in itself is

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Speaker 1: already a such a rich storytelling place, you know, like

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Speaker 1: it's a kitchen, Like you know, there's so much about

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Speaker 1: patriarchy and patriarchy and so many other things that are

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Speaker 1: centered around the kitchen around in storytelling, things that happen

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Speaker 1: around dinner tables, like often important conversations, really hard conversations

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Speaker 1: happen around kitchen tables. They are rich places for family life.

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Speaker 1: All of those things that are elements of storytelling come

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Speaker 1: up in just one photo. When I first saw it,

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Speaker 1: I didn't have the language for that. I was younger,

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Speaker 1: I hadn't gone through the things I'm going through now.

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Speaker 1: It's like when you're a kid and you singing the

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Speaker 1: R and B song, You're like, yeah, I lost my.

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Speaker 2: Man, I'm too damn full of and he won't come back.

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Speaker 1: But you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I really received that work.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I don't really know much about it

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Speaker 1: from a live experienced perspective yet. But the thing is,

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Speaker 1: it's like, that's what work. That affects you. Does It's

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Speaker 1: like it brings this thing out of you before you

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Speaker 1: even know it's in you. Yeah, And I feel like

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Speaker 1: now at this point in my life, I've been able

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Speaker 1: to evolve with it, like and I see it in

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Speaker 1: different ways now that I go back and read the text.

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Speaker 4: In her work.

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Speaker 1: So, for instance, at one point, she's talking about how

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Speaker 1: she goes to her mom for advice because she's struggling

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Speaker 1: in her relationship. So throughout this narrative, she's talking about

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Speaker 1: the ups and downs with this man. She's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he didn't want kids, but she wanted kids, and she

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Speaker 1: was working and he wasn't working, and he was feeling

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Speaker 1: a way about the way she was out and about

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Speaker 1: and he wasn't out and about. And there's a point

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Speaker 1: where she goes to her mom for advice about her relationship.

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Speaker 1: This is what her mom says to her, quote, you

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Speaker 1: got to give a little to get a little. That's

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Speaker 1: the story of life. So there's another part where she

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Speaker 1: talks about children. So she's using the third person when

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Speaker 1: she's talking about the woman who's present in these photos.

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Speaker 1: So they're not autobiographical photos. I should say, OK, it's

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Speaker 1: not an autobiographical story, but she uses herself as a

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Speaker 1: stand in to be this character that people are following,

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Speaker 1: this muse in order to represent universal themes. She says, quote,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, she loved the kids, she was responsible, but

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Speaker 1: took no deep pleasure in motherhood. It caused deflection from

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Speaker 1: her own immediate desires, which pissed her off. And then

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Speaker 1: there is another part where one of my favorite parts

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Speaker 1: of the text narrative of the series is a big

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Speaker 1: chunk paragraph where she's calling back to black songs to

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Speaker 1: illustrate her struggle with her man, like go tell it

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Speaker 1: on the mountain, like going down by the river, and

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Speaker 1: all these things. From a storytelling perspective, I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: that all her call back that, even if I don't

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Speaker 1: know intimately it didn't grow up with, those songs are works.

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Speaker 1: They're part of the of the language, of the shared language.

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Speaker 1: But all of that said, now that the scene has

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Speaker 1: been set for everyone. I chose this one and gratitude

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Speaker 1: for it just because I felt like it was an

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Speaker 1: entry point for me in terms of how I viewed

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Speaker 1: art about black women who was in the photographs and

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Speaker 1: in art, how I could express myself in my own

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Speaker 1: art so I felt like everything was so delicate. I

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Speaker 1: had an immediate response to looking at it that made

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Speaker 1: me feel like there was a knowing before I even

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Speaker 1: knew for myself. So there was an interview that she

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Speaker 1: did in Bomb many years ago with dog Bay, and

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Speaker 1: she said in that interview quote another thing that's interesting

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Speaker 1: about the early work is that even though I've been

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Speaker 1: engaged in the idea of autobiography, other ideas have been

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Speaker 1: more important. The role of narrative, the social levels of humor,

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Speaker 1: the deconstruction of documentary, the construction of history, the use

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Speaker 1: of text, storytelling, performance, and the role of memory have

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Speaker 1: all been more es central to my thinking than autobiography. So,

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Speaker 1: knowing that she says that, also knowing about her background

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Speaker 1: in folklore, I really appreciate all of the story within

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Speaker 1: a story and the nodding to larger stories in the

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Speaker 1: work that she did.

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Speaker 4: All of the myths.

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Speaker 1: That came together in one and all of the archetypes

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Speaker 1: that she had in there that she represented through the

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Speaker 1: narratives that she was telling in that work really served

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Speaker 1: as an inspiration to me for being able to so

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Speaker 1: elegantly and authentically mesh all of those things together and

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Speaker 1: tell a story that was impactful and beautiful but like

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Speaker 1: still real.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if it was like you're because you

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Speaker 2: said you saw when you were younger and hadn't had

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Speaker 2: these life experiences that she was you know, alluding to

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Speaker 2: and portraying. And I wonder if it was like your

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Speaker 2: future self acknowledging that you know, like you're going to

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Speaker 2: get it, but like your spirit got it already when

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Speaker 2: you first saw it.

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Speaker 1: I do think that's what happened. It felt like a

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Speaker 1: kind of mysticism or like a fortune telling in a way.

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Speaker 1: But that's probably because she's so astutely or critically like

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Speaker 1: thinks about the way we move through life and aims

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Speaker 1: to do that through her work, like to be able

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Speaker 1: to touch that deeper thing that you don't even know

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Speaker 1: that you've touched it or have been able to access.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I can even fully explain it,

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Speaker 1: but I think that's okay. And our experience of art

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Speaker 1: is not always about or life in general, like understanding

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Speaker 1: immediately why something makes sense to you in a certain way.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I definitely think that's part of it.

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Speaker 2: On that same train of thought, I'm wondering how you

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Speaker 2: will experience the work when you're ninety and like looking

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Speaker 2: back at all the things that it's portraying that you

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Speaker 2: most likely won't be going through because he wasn't a

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Speaker 2: ninety year old woman making these photos, and she hadn't

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Speaker 2: really experienced life beyond where she was in that time.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: That's a good question that I'm kind of like stumped

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Speaker 1: by because I couldn't have even imagined the ways and

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Speaker 1: that I connect to it now. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: how to imagine the ways that I'll connect it to

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Speaker 1: it in the future. But I appreciate the longevity of

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Speaker 1: being able to carry it through so many parts of

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Speaker 1: my life.

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Speaker 2: Do you think you will connect to it so far

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Speaker 2: into the future, Because there's pieces of art that we like,

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Speaker 2: really like at certain parts of our life and then

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Speaker 2: it's like, oh, this really doesn't resonate anymore.

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Speaker 1: I think this one will be a long lasting gratitude,

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Speaker 1: but you know, short lived gratitude has its place too,

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Speaker 1: because it's like, oh, clear that what we needed in

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Speaker 1: that moment. So I definitely I don't want to say

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Speaker 1: one is better than the other either, that's fair. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I'll also say that this was part this is

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Speaker 1: a body of work that really helped propel her to

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Speaker 1: wider acclaim and audiences, and so there's an impact that

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Speaker 1: it had outside of me as well. She was able

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Speaker 1: to be an inspiration to others in the art world.

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Speaker 1: So through this work and all of her other work

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Speaker 1: created a legacy that I'm grateful for.

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Speaker 2: I also think it's important to point out that because

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Speaker 2: you mentioned like a lot of people liking her work,

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Speaker 2: and I think sometimes we have this tendency to only

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Speaker 2: want to say we like very obscure things and not

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Speaker 2: everybody likes Yeah, but it's like everyone likes it for

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Speaker 2: a reason, you know. It's like it's nice and made

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Speaker 2: a lot of people feel that way. And just because

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Speaker 2: something is popular or a lot of people like it

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Speaker 2: or have seen it or have commented on it, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: make it like less cool to like some Glad you

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Speaker 2: pointed this one out. And for the people that haven't

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Speaker 2: seen it, I think once they do look at it

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Speaker 2: and fall in love with it too. It's like it's

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Speaker 2: more speaking to Carrie may Weed's ability to capture the

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Speaker 2: human experience for all types of people. Yeah, across time,

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Speaker 2: across time too. Yeah, because there's probably other parts of

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Speaker 2: the series that other people really resonate with, whether it's

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Speaker 2: just like laughing with friends, like oh, yeah, I really

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Speaker 2: remember when I did that and how fun that was,

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Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, and like it really like

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Speaker 2: sits with them in different ways too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 2: And I'll share which story I'm grateful for after the break.

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Speaker 4: It's O Katie, what work are you grateful for?

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Speaker 2: I'm grateful for Fanny lou Hamer's nineteen sixty four speech

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Speaker 2: at the Democratic National Convention. So Fanny lou Hammer ran

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Speaker 2: for Congress in nineteen sixty four with the Mississippi Freedom

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Speaker 2: Democratic Party. SO that was a party formed by SNICK,

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Speaker 2: the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee to expand black voter registration

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Speaker 2: and challenge the legitimacy of Mississippi's all white Democratic Party.

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Speaker 2: So in nineteen sixty four, the Mississippi Freedom Party came

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Speaker 2: to the DNC intent on unseating the official Mississippi delegation, or,

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Speaker 2: if they failed to unseat them, to gain a seat

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Speaker 2: beside them. So on August twenty second, Missus Vannie lou

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Speaker 2: Hammer appeared before the Convention's Credentials Committee and told her

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Speaker 2: story about trying to register to vote in Mississippi. And

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Speaker 2: one thing that's interesting about this, and I think broadly

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Speaker 2: about black stories, especially in this time when we're talking

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Speaker 2: about like book banning. President Lyndon Johnson was so afraid

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Speaker 2: of what Fanny lou Hamer was going to say, he

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Speaker 2: called an impromptu press conference. And so, of course, with

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Speaker 2: the President's on TV, no matter what's on TV, like

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Speaker 2: it's going to go to him, and he did that

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Speaker 2: on purpose so people would not hear her. But she

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Speaker 2: still said the speech and it was still recorded, so

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Speaker 2: it aired later that night and it aired on all

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Speaker 2: the major net work, so it didn't work, but it

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Speaker 2: just showed how scared he was of like truth telling

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Speaker 2: and how scared America is of like black people telling

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Speaker 2: the truth. And so she starts to speech by talking

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Speaker 2: about who she is. She gives her a whole address,

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Speaker 2: which I just love because I'm like, this is a

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Speaker 2: rich test, Like she's like, I'm You're going to know

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Speaker 2: who I am. And she states where she lives, which

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Speaker 2: is Ruleville, Mississippi, and.

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Speaker 3: East streets they only Mississippi, Sunflower County, and who her

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Speaker 3: representatives are, so James O.

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Speaker 2: Eastland and Senator Stinnis. So she sat in the stage

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Speaker 2: right for where she is in the country, what's the

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Speaker 2: atmosphere of where she's living and who's representing her. So

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Speaker 2: she has James O. Eastland, who stated that the Civil

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Speaker 2: Rights Act of nineteen sixty four was the most monstrous

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Speaker 2: and heinous piece of legislation that has ever been proposed

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Speaker 2: in the entire history of the AS Congress. So that's

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Speaker 2: what she's coming up against, that's where she's trying to vote.

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Speaker 2: So she sets the stage in that way, which I

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Speaker 2: think is really important. And also what I loved about

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Speaker 2: Miss Vanny Louhamer is how plain spoken she is, and

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Speaker 2: she's like not putting on airs right, because you know,

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Speaker 2: sometimes you're like in front of Congress, you feel like

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Speaker 2: you have to, you know, speak the way they speak.

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Speaker 2: But she didn't do that. She spoke the way she spoke,

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Speaker 2: and it was powerful because it's like every subject and

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Speaker 2: verb don't have to agree, you know what the fuck

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, and it's like very powerful. So she talks

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Speaker 2: about how they went to register to vote.

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Speaker 3: It was the thirty first of all this in nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty two that eighteen of us travels twenty six miles.

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Speaker 2: And they it was like so much hypocrisy and unfairness

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Speaker 2: that was going on. They got fined for the bus

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Speaker 2: they were riding in being the wrong color, Like what

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Speaker 2: does that even mean? You know, they were giving poll taxes.

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Speaker 3: And they only allowed two of us in to take

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Speaker 3: the literaty tests.

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Speaker 2: At the time, they're turned away. And she's a sharecropper

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Speaker 2: and when she gets back to the plantation that she

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Speaker 2: works on, the landowner says that if you don't go down.

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Speaker 3: And withdraw your registration, you will have to leave.

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Speaker 2: She needs to go withdraw her registration or she can't

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Speaker 2: live there anymore. And even if she does, she still

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Speaker 2: might get kicked out because Mississippi isn't ready for that.

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Speaker 2: But she stood up and was like, I am register

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Speaker 2: for you. I registered for me. And I think that

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Speaker 2: takes a lot of courage because like where do you go?

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Speaker 2: And I do think at that time, you know, she

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Speaker 2: was in community, she was an activists, so she had

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Speaker 2: people who had her back. But at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, it is like you your husband and your kids,

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Speaker 2: and this is kind of all you known. And it

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Speaker 2: took a lot of courage to lose your livelihood no

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Speaker 2: matter how unfair being a sharecropper is. But lose your

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Speaker 2: livelihood and where you live for this possible ability to

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Speaker 2: be able to vote. So she talks about that, and

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Speaker 2: then she talks about how you know, people were shooting

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Speaker 2: sixteen bullets at the home of mister and missus Robert Tucker,

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Speaker 2: and that were meant for her. People were after her

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Speaker 2: because of this, and when do you think about even

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Speaker 2: like the book banning, It's like, what are you so

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Speaker 2: afraid of? You know, like you're doing all this so

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Speaker 2: I don't vote, Like you're doing all this so people

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Speaker 2: don't read the words I have to say. So I

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Speaker 2: feel like when people like in this case, like white

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Speaker 2: people of the state are doing these things to stop

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Speaker 2: us from voting, stop us from reading, I think they

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Speaker 2: don't understand how emboldening it is. Like it's scary, but

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Speaker 2: it's like, if you're getting this mad, I must be

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Speaker 2: onto something.

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Speaker 3: And this is an account of we want to register.

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Speaker 2: And I get that from her speech. So she talked

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Speaker 2: about attending the voter workshop and getting pulled over and

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Speaker 2: being booked into jail and like being beat and it's

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Speaker 2: a very you know, graphic description she tells about like

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Speaker 2: state sanctioned violence, like she's getting beat by different cops

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Speaker 2: in the in the jail, it's a stream.

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Speaker 3: And one white man got up and began to beat

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Speaker 3: me in my head and talent at.

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Speaker 2: The hook being called a nigger and her dress being

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Speaker 2: hiked up while she's getting beat and then she ends

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Speaker 2: her speech with a very powerful rhetorical question.

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Speaker 3: It's just Amratha, the line of the Free and the

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Speaker 3: home of the brain. Wow, we have to sleep with

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Speaker 3: our telephones out for the hook because our lives be

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Speaker 3: threatened daily because we want to live. It did some

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Speaker 3: human beings.

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Speaker 2: In America, and she really forced America to look at itself.

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Speaker 2: And I think there's a long history of black Americans

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Speaker 2: forcing America to look at itself in America really refusing

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Speaker 2: to do so, because when you truly look at what

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Speaker 2: America is versus what it claims to be, it doesn't square.

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Speaker 2: It's very hypocritical. And I'm glad that she told this story.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's first person. Like a lot of speeches

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Speaker 2: are like hypotheticals, like if we don't do this, then

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Speaker 2: this will happen. But she's like, no, this is what

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Speaker 2: happened to me last week. Type shit so I think

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Speaker 2: that's very powerful, and you know, being in Mississippi at

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Speaker 2: that time, like you know, my grandparents were in Mississippi

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Speaker 2: around that time, and it was just hectic being there.

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Speaker 2: But you get on you know, the world stage and

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Speaker 2: tell what happened to you, you don't know what's gonna

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Speaker 2: happen when you go back Mimsissippi. So I'm glad that she,

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Speaker 2: you know, had the courage to stand up and say that.

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Speaker 2: I think it's very interesting that the president was so

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Speaker 2: threatened by her, because other people spoke that day too.

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Speaker 2: Martin Luther King spoke. President did not interrupt Martin Luther

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Speaker 2: King speaking, but it was something about Fanny lou Hamer speaking,

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Speaker 2: someone who had you know, a six rade education. It

427
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Speaker 2: was a share who learned about voting from young activists

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Speaker 2: and was like, I want to do that. That frightened

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Speaker 2: them so much. And I think it's just really a

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Speaker 2: lesson and you don't have to be, you know, that

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Speaker 2: great man. You don't have to be the main person,

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Speaker 2: the leader, the you know, most educated or whatever superlative

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Speaker 2: that's out there to really shake some shit up. Because

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Speaker 2: she shook some shit up because they didn't get the

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Speaker 2: Mississippi Freedom Party did not get you know, the seats

436
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 2: that year, but four years later they did, and I

437
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 2: just love that for Fanni Hammer and for all the

438
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: people who came behind her. Like, you know, people love

439
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 2: to shit on Mississippi, but I'm like, you could never

440
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 2: shit on Mississippi because you know, like so many people

441
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 2: came up out of that tradition, you know what I mean.

442
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 2: So that's the one that I think about about gratitude,

443
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 2: Like really just like speaking truth to power, no matter

444
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 2: the consequences.

445
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more great attitude after the break.

446
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: Speeches are such a powerful part of black storytelling and

447
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,479
Speaker 1: Black history. But this specific speech that you brought, I

448
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: like that you brought it because it's not this one

449
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: that's like I'm speaking at you, as so many speeches

450
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 1: often are, because that's the role, that's the job that

451
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: you're given, you know. This one it feels like more

452
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: of like a testimony, which is a Black Southern tradition.

453
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 4: So I really.

454
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:46,239
Speaker 1: Appreciate it that you brought that as a form of

455
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: storytelling because it's such a deeply important form of storytelling

456
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: for black people, and this is something that could have

457
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: happened in a small interior space and to call back

458
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,719
Speaker 1: to like this kitchen table from earlier for carrying may

459
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: Ween that happened so much for black people in home

460
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: spaces and interior spaces like that. But this was such

461
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: such an exterior space. It's being televised, it's being recorded,

462
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: and it's in front of people who you know don't

463
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 1: have your best interest at heart, and you laying it

464
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: all on the line. Like, yes, the work that she

465
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: was doing, like as an activist, was her laying it

466
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 1: all on the line. But like, telling your story in

467
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: front of people who don't want you alive alone is

468
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: already like you laying your life on the line. You're

469
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 1: already giving something up. You know, when we choose to

470
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 1: share our stories with people in such a public and

471
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 1: vulnerable way, we're already choosing to give something up. So

472
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it that you brought this kind of

473
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: story to the table, and I can tell that it

474
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: really meant a lot to you, and I know it

475
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 1: meant a lot to so many other people too.

476
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I grew up learning about Fanny lou Hammer,

477
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 2: but the first time I heard this particular speech when

478
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: she's describing being beat by the Negro officer and being

479
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 2: held down by the Negro officer and being beat till

480
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: the first one was too tired to beat her and

481
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: so they get another person to beat her. And just

482
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 2: thinking about like all that she personally went through, but

483
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 2: like all black people have gone through. I feel like

484
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 2: kind of like how you felt about the Kitchen Table series.

485
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 2: I feel like my future self was like, girl, you

486
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: need to hear this. Yeah, so you're ready, you know

487
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: when she it go down to know like what your

488
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 2: ancestors went through, and you know, like recent ancestors. You know,

489
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: Fanny Louhammer was not that old when she died, like

490
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 2: she could still be alive today, but because of all

491
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 2: the racism, all the beatings she endured, she had a

492
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 2: lot of health problems. But having that knowledge of like,

493
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: this is what they went through, and you need to

494
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: hear these words. And they tried to make it so

495
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 2: you couldn't hear these words, and I think that makes

496
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 2: it even like more of an imperative that we hear

497
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: it and then we also share it too.

498
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: For people who are thinking about creating works, you know,

499
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: and who don't know if their voices are quote unquote

500
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: important enough to be heard or if they're maybe fearful

501
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: around sharing what they have to say, Like it's just

502
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: so important because you never know how somebody might be

503
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: affected by it. So I think that's another thing that

504
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: I think about in gratitude, Like it's recognizing and acknowledging

505
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: and honoring like what we do have. We know that

506
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: when it comes to black story specifically, so many more

507
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: that are out there that are waiting.

508
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 4: To be told too.

509
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: So it's like I have this like future of gratitude

510
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 1: for like the fact that we still exist and we

511
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: have the capability of like creating and sharing so many

512
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: more stories.

513
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 2: And now it's time for role credits. Eves, who are

514
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: what are you giving credit to?

515
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: I want to give credit to the South because you

516
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: talked to about Mississippi and how people be banging on Mississippi.

517
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: But people bang on the South in general, and people

518
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: bang on the South who be from the South. People

519
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: bang on the South from international locations, and I ain't

520
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: never been to the South. There is a construction and

521
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: conception of the South that is inaccurate in so many ways.

522
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm biased because I'm from the South,

523
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: So I mean I see it fully though, and I

524
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: am also proud of my southernness. I respect my southernness.

525
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: I'm grateful speaking of gratitude for my southernness and for

526
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: the South and.

527
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 4: The South has.

528
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: It's obviously a complex place like so many others are,

529
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: but so many people who have done amazing things have

530
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: come from the South, just like FAMILYE.

531
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 4: Hamer. That's what I want to give credit TOUE. Today

532
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 4: the South shout out the South.

533
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,719
Speaker 2: So for my raw credits, I want to start by

534
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: saying that we started on theme for it to be

535
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: a dialogue not between just us, but between our listeners

536
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: and people who love black stories. And so I want

537
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: to give credit to one of our listeners, Andy Davis eighteen.

538
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: That's Andy an Die Davis eighteen. They created a Instagram

539
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 2: reel in response to one of our episodes, to our

540
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: first episodes, talking about beginnings, and they not only just

541
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: talked about liking the episode, but I feel like they

542
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: really added to it. They mentioned the first line of

543
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 2: the Autobiography of My Mother by Jamaica Kincaid. So yeah,

544
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: I really love the conversations that we have with each other,

545
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: with our guests and with our listeners. So I encourage

546
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: folks that if you want to add to the conversation,

547
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: go ahead. There's many ways to do that, you know,

548
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: there's social media, there's the reviews, there's our email. So

549
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: I'm grateful for folks who are doing it.

550
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 4: So I think that's oh, we have this week, right, Katie.

551
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 2: We'll see you next week. Bye, Hi, y'all.

552
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.

553
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: This episode was written by Eves Jeffco and Katie Mitchell.

554
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison.

555
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 4: Follow us on.

556
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also send us an

557
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: email at hello at ontheme dot show. For more podcasts

558
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

559
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.