WEBVTT - Earth, Wind & Fire's Verdine White with Rick Rubin 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:26.956 Pushkin, Earthwin and Fire are the Black Beatles. Their influence 0:00:27.036 --> 0:00:30.316 can't be overstated. You'd be hard pressed to find a 0:00:30.356 --> 0:00:34.356 wedding or graduation party in the last fifty years where 0:00:34.396 --> 0:00:37.796 their music didn't bring generations together to dance and sing 0:00:37.836 --> 0:00:52.916 their hearts out. Do you remember love is changing? Earth 0:00:52.916 --> 0:00:57.356 Winn and Fires music is intricate, combining melody with mysticism 0:00:57.356 --> 0:01:00.636 and jazz to create some of the most instantly recognizable 0:01:00.676 --> 0:01:04.916 and profound music of the seventies. Earthwin and Fire's groove 0:01:05.196 --> 0:01:08.756 is emmets, and that's not an accident. Verice White you 0:01:08.876 --> 0:01:11.876 start to Earthwin and Fire in nineteen sixty nine, spent 0:01:12.036 --> 0:01:15.316 years as a jazz drummer around Chicago before becoming a 0:01:15.396 --> 0:01:18.356 front man, and the group's rhythm section was held down 0:01:18.356 --> 0:01:22.996 by his brothers, including Verdine White on bass. Earthwin and 0:01:22.996 --> 0:01:25.996 Fire might have been Maurice's musical vision, but the band's 0:01:26.036 --> 0:01:29.876 spirit always came from his younger brother Verdeen. His sheer 0:01:30.036 --> 0:01:33.356 joy for music can't be contained on stage with the 0:01:33.436 --> 0:01:37.036 sequined outfits and long pressed hair, Verdein dances with as 0:01:37.116 --> 0:01:40.756 much dexterity as he plays bass. Ferdine has been leading 0:01:40.756 --> 0:01:43.756 the group along with Philip Bailey since the nineties, when 0:01:43.796 --> 0:01:46.396 Maurice stepped back from the band due to Parkinson's disease, 0:01:46.676 --> 0:01:50.756 which he ultimately passed from. In twenty sixteen, Rick Rubin 0:01:50.796 --> 0:01:52.996 connected with the Verdeen to talk about the early days 0:01:52.996 --> 0:01:56.116 of Earthwin and Fire and about their producer Charles Stepney, 0:01:56.436 --> 0:02:00.516 who Verdeine calls They're George Mark. Also, Rick reads to 0:02:00.596 --> 0:02:03.116 Verdeine a poignant note from the Red Hot Chili Peppers 0:02:03.156 --> 0:02:11.116 Flee about what makes Verdein's bass playing so special. This 0:02:11.196 --> 0:02:14.076 is broken record liner notes for the digital age. I'm 0:02:14.116 --> 0:02:23.116 justin Mitch Wind. Here's Rick Rubin and Verdine White. What's 0:02:23.116 --> 0:02:25.836 happened in Good to see you? Good to see you too. 0:02:25.876 --> 0:02:28.236 How are you? My friend? Very well? How are you? 0:02:28.516 --> 0:02:31.396 I'm fantastic so good to see you. Yeah, I wanted 0:02:31.436 --> 0:02:35.836 to I was just talking to Flee about that we 0:02:35.836 --> 0:02:38.036 were going to be speaking. I want to read to 0:02:38.076 --> 0:02:41.036 you what he says. He said Verdein was the guy 0:02:41.076 --> 0:02:45.476 who who played massive pop hits where he rocked virtuoso 0:02:45.556 --> 0:02:49.156 bass playing in the context of memorable grooves that doesn't 0:02:49.196 --> 0:02:53.116 exist anymore, and how Earthwind and Fires music appealed more 0:02:53.156 --> 0:02:58.516 than any other band of all time to all all ages, 0:02:58.676 --> 0:03:02.036 all ethnicities. And when I was a kid in middle school, 0:03:02.036 --> 0:03:04.796 this is Flee talking. The black kids like p Funk, 0:03:04.956 --> 0:03:07.956 the white kids like Kiss and led Zeppelin. Everybody loved 0:03:07.996 --> 0:03:12.516 earth Wind and Fire. Old, young, black, white, Mexican, Asian. Amazing, 0:03:12.676 --> 0:03:15.476 And I think I've always strived for based on earth 0:03:15.516 --> 0:03:18.956 Wind and Fire. Oh wow, and then beautiful it's heavy. 0:03:19.596 --> 0:03:21.876 I love. I've known three for a long time, A 0:03:21.916 --> 0:03:24.396 long long time, you know, yeah, yeah. How how much 0:03:24.436 --> 0:03:27.636 do you guys practice historically? When we do it? We 0:03:27.716 --> 0:03:31.036 do soundchecks every day. I never miss a soundcheck. When 0:03:31.036 --> 0:03:34.796 we do big production rehearsals, it's big. It's a lot. 0:03:35.396 --> 0:03:37.356 If rehearsals start at ten o'clock in the morning, I 0:03:37.356 --> 0:03:39.676 am there at nine. If it starts at eleven, I'm 0:03:39.716 --> 0:03:41.956 there at ten. If it starts at four o'clock in 0:03:41.996 --> 0:03:43.996 the morning, I'm at three o'clock in the morning. I 0:03:43.996 --> 0:03:47.596 still do the same things. Those same rituals don't have 0:03:47.756 --> 0:03:51.476 never changed for me. Amazing. It brings up were there 0:03:51.516 --> 0:03:56.236 any rituals that your band would do before you would 0:03:56.276 --> 0:04:00.156 go on stage? Was there any any practices what we 0:04:00.236 --> 0:04:04.796 still do. We call it the circle. We get into 0:04:04.836 --> 0:04:09.876 the circle. You know, we throw everything out of the day. 0:04:10.276 --> 0:04:12.716 You know, for us, it's the start of another day, 0:04:13.676 --> 0:04:16.036 you know. You know how you meditate in the morning 0:04:16.476 --> 0:04:18.516 and then you meditate in the evening, it's really at 0:04:18.516 --> 0:04:21.756 the beginning of another day. So we throw everything out 0:04:22.316 --> 0:04:24.676 and we tune in as to what we need to do. 0:04:24.756 --> 0:04:27.156 And we have honorary members sometimes that have come to 0:04:27.196 --> 0:04:30.596 our circle, you know. You know Russell Wilson, you know, 0:04:30.636 --> 0:04:32.836 he was in our circle one evening. Dion World was 0:04:32.876 --> 0:04:35.596 in our circle. And we invite people in sometimes to 0:04:35.676 --> 0:04:39.076 the circle because it's a sacred circle, beautiful, and we say, 0:04:39.116 --> 0:04:40.756 for that night, you are in the band, you are 0:04:40.796 --> 0:04:42.916 part of the music tonight. And a lot of people 0:04:42.956 --> 0:04:44.516 want to get into the circle because they want to 0:04:44.516 --> 0:04:48.316 feel what we are feeling. And although we are in 0:04:48.996 --> 0:04:52.476 all individuals, we all have different things, different lifestyles. When 0:04:52.516 --> 0:04:55.356 we get into that circle, we get into that the 0:04:55.436 --> 0:04:59.316 earth when the ebf or the fire vibration, you know, 0:04:59.356 --> 0:05:02.156 which we tune back into. You know, my late brother Maurice, 0:05:02.236 --> 0:05:04.076 we tune in all the work he did, all the 0:05:04.116 --> 0:05:07.396 records we did. The late Charles stepped me, our arranger, producer, 0:05:07.996 --> 0:05:10.436 you know, thing like that. So we tune right back 0:05:10.436 --> 0:05:14.156 into earth wind and fire, all those qualities, you know, 0:05:14.156 --> 0:05:16.956 as we talk about we buy into it. Have you 0:05:16.996 --> 0:05:22.596 always been doing this forever? Wow? Since the seventies, forever beautiful. 0:05:22.636 --> 0:05:25.476 We have programmed books of back in the day when 0:05:25.516 --> 0:05:28.276 we were in the circle, our choreographers, when we had dancers, 0:05:28.276 --> 0:05:30.796 the dancers were in the circle. We've always done that. 0:05:30.996 --> 0:05:33.636 So when we go on stage, we are you know, 0:05:34.196 --> 0:05:37.556 Umfordane White, we have Philip Bailey, we have Ralph Johnson. 0:05:37.876 --> 0:05:39.516 You know, the three of us are the leaders now 0:05:39.836 --> 0:05:41.756 you know what I mean, Philip and I. But we 0:05:41.796 --> 0:05:43.796 get into the things that we created. Don't forget that 0:05:43.876 --> 0:05:46.156 we created earthwin and fire. So we go right back 0:05:46.196 --> 0:05:49.876 to that place, you know, that sacred space of that thing, 0:05:49.916 --> 0:05:52.956 you know, beautiful beautiful. I'm so glad you do it. 0:05:52.956 --> 0:05:55.516 It's it's just such a beautiful thing. So you really 0:05:55.956 --> 0:06:00.956 unifies the players into being not themselves anymore, but into 0:06:00.996 --> 0:06:03.956 this thing, this thing earth wind and Fire. Is that 0:06:04.036 --> 0:06:06.716 would that be accurate? That's right of what that is 0:06:06.796 --> 0:06:10.796 or what we created and what we stand for, what 0:06:10.916 --> 0:06:13.756 our intentions have been. You know, because we've been around, 0:06:13.836 --> 0:06:17.796 I mean, we've had a record out every generation, right, 0:06:17.876 --> 0:06:19.396 you know, you know, right now we have this song. 0:06:19.436 --> 0:06:21.356 I would make a train of a Christmas but we've 0:06:21.356 --> 0:06:23.916 had records out. But now what happens with us? The 0:06:23.956 --> 0:06:26.996 older people turned the younger people on to us, and 0:06:27.076 --> 0:06:30.916 they go back and start listening, you know. And what 0:06:30.996 --> 0:06:35.036 I find now that the other generations and other musicians 0:06:35.036 --> 0:06:37.556 like Flee knows our work, but the younger musicians want 0:06:37.556 --> 0:06:40.356 to know what it's like being us and how do 0:06:40.396 --> 0:06:44.236 you get there? You know? Yes, And I think what's 0:06:44.236 --> 0:06:47.436 going on with the younger people. I don't think they're concerned. 0:06:47.516 --> 0:06:49.436 I think it used to be I want to be successful. 0:06:50.396 --> 0:06:54.036 Now I think they want to be immortal and leave 0:06:54.036 --> 0:06:56.316 a legacy. And they look at us as guys that 0:06:56.396 --> 0:06:57.836 have done that, so they want to know how do 0:06:57.876 --> 0:07:01.196 we get that? Because success comes and goes, you know, 0:07:01.236 --> 0:07:04.596 depending on the culture, depending on what the wind, like 0:07:04.636 --> 0:07:07.036 a tennis ball or golf ball. The cross winds could 0:07:07.076 --> 0:07:09.996 throw you off, right, you know, but when you're when 0:07:10.036 --> 0:07:12.636 you're when you turn out to be a legend or immortality, 0:07:12.636 --> 0:07:16.916 it stays forever. And so so few of your contemporaries 0:07:17.796 --> 0:07:20.876 have managed to keep going, Like who were the bands? 0:07:20.876 --> 0:07:24.396 Who would you say were the competition in the early 0:07:24.476 --> 0:07:27.476 days when in the early days there was people like 0:07:28.196 --> 0:07:35.796 Ohio players right, war Man Rule, right, you know, groups 0:07:35.836 --> 0:07:38.836 like that Commodore's right Linel on them, you know. And 0:07:38.876 --> 0:07:40.276 I do see Lionel and I spect a line of 0:07:40.356 --> 0:07:43.676 quite a lot. And so those who are contemporaries at 0:07:43.676 --> 0:07:45.556 that time, and at that particular time, we were just 0:07:45.636 --> 0:07:48.556 kind of starting out and we were growing up. But 0:07:48.356 --> 0:07:50.516 the but Maurice, because he was older than us, ten 0:07:50.596 --> 0:07:53.356 years older, he was more mature, so he knew kind 0:07:53.356 --> 0:07:56.836 of like where we were headed, you know, where we 0:07:56.916 --> 0:07:59.316 ended up being. He was already there. You know, he 0:07:59.356 --> 0:08:01.036 was I think kind of when I look back at it, 0:08:01.076 --> 0:08:04.236 he was kind of waiting for us to catch up. Wow, 0:08:04.356 --> 0:08:06.716 and and and and Reese. Although he was you know, 0:08:06.956 --> 0:08:08.596 he was a great leader. He was a tough leader. 0:08:08.636 --> 0:08:11.676 He was really actually patient with us too, you know, 0:08:11.716 --> 0:08:12.956 and a lot of the stuff that we would do 0:08:12.996 --> 0:08:14.676 he'd laugh at because he said, Okay, when they get 0:08:14.676 --> 0:08:16.436 past that, then we'll have a good talk, you know. 0:08:16.796 --> 0:08:20.836 And Maurice didn't really write his book until he saw 0:08:20.876 --> 0:08:23.716 us at the Hollywood Bowl. Maurice came out that brought 0:08:23.796 --> 0:08:26.556 him out walked him out to the fans and people 0:08:26.596 --> 0:08:29.436 gave him a standing ovation. That's when he decided to 0:08:29.436 --> 0:08:31.556 write the book because he said he knew that it 0:08:31.596 --> 0:08:34.396 was in good hands. And that was our first time 0:08:34.476 --> 0:08:38.196 playing with an orchestra and you know, ninety pieces, and 0:08:38.236 --> 0:08:40.156 when we played the Hollywoo Bowl last year was beautiful 0:08:40.196 --> 0:08:43.356 Brooke Box Office Records again Thomas Wilkins. And then we 0:08:43.516 --> 0:08:45.076 kind of got out of you know, we're sort of 0:08:45.156 --> 0:08:47.956 more into the like, you know, the Earth Winning Fire 0:08:48.836 --> 0:08:51.116 what it means, not into the successful part of it, 0:08:51.156 --> 0:08:53.316 because we kind of did that, you know, because success 0:08:53.436 --> 0:08:56.836 kind of dictates you or me. But our thing is 0:08:57.036 --> 0:09:00.356 you and me, so that's where we are amazing. It's 0:09:00.396 --> 0:09:02.276 one of the things. It's like if I listened to 0:09:02.356 --> 0:09:06.316 any other and I'm not limiting Earth Wind and Fire 0:09:06.356 --> 0:09:08.476 to funk, but let's talk about funk just because it's 0:09:08.476 --> 0:09:13.556 such a it's one of the pillars of Earth Winning 0:09:13.636 --> 0:09:16.076 Fire as funk. And if I look at the other 0:09:16.116 --> 0:09:20.236 funk music that I've listened to, there's always almost always 0:09:20.396 --> 0:09:23.636 a looseness about it that you guys never you guys 0:09:23.636 --> 0:09:28.796 always had a precision beyond any other band, making any 0:09:28.916 --> 0:09:34.076 music related, it always seemed much tighter, much more precise, 0:09:34.756 --> 0:09:39.476 much more like fanatical in a way, like just like perfect. 0:09:39.716 --> 0:09:43.356 It was always perfect absolutely with us. We were never 0:09:43.396 --> 0:09:46.356 what you call a jam jam band, you know, don't 0:09:46.396 --> 0:09:49.476 forget number Reese's background was, you know, jazz, you know 0:09:49.476 --> 0:09:51.676 what I mean. We come out of Chicago, you know, 0:09:52.156 --> 0:09:54.916 Chess Records, you know things Maurice did you know, But 0:09:54.956 --> 0:09:56.756 there was a precision to the music, you know, with 0:09:56.796 --> 0:10:00.236 the late child Stepney with the horns, which people like 0:10:00.516 --> 0:10:03.156 Quincy respected, you know, because Quincy's work was very precise. 0:10:03.196 --> 0:10:05.276 With Michael Jackson, you know what I mean. So you 0:10:05.276 --> 0:10:07.796 know it was always precision everything. You know, everything's on 0:10:07.836 --> 0:10:09.716 the dot as we are now, as we are now. 0:10:09.796 --> 0:10:10.996 You know, if we're get a little loose, we talk 0:10:11.036 --> 0:10:12.636 about it, you know, we say, listen, we gott to 0:10:12.636 --> 0:10:14.476 tighten this up here, because you can get a little loose. 0:10:14.556 --> 0:10:15.956 You know, you can get a little loose. You can 0:10:16.036 --> 0:10:19.596 forget where those bars are, you know, you know, on 0:10:19.756 --> 0:10:21.516 maybe on the fourth night, when you're a little tired, 0:10:21.556 --> 0:10:23.676 you might forget, you know, done about you know, you 0:10:23.676 --> 0:10:25.636 have to remind yourself to be just a little bit 0:10:25.676 --> 0:10:29.476 more on the dot you know. Yeah, as it relates 0:10:29.476 --> 0:10:32.876 to bass playing, from the time that a song would 0:10:33.156 --> 0:10:37.516 come into existence, how would the bass evolve into what 0:10:37.556 --> 0:10:41.436 we hear on the record version? Like how close would 0:10:41.436 --> 0:10:43.396 it be from the first time you play it? Let's say, 0:10:43.796 --> 0:10:47.236 tell me about the process of developing the bass. But 0:10:47.436 --> 0:10:49.916 the process would because Maurice is a drummer, so I 0:10:49.916 --> 0:10:52.236 would hear all the songs, and he'd played me a 0:10:52.236 --> 0:10:54.596 lot of the tune, so our groove was pretty natural. 0:10:55.236 --> 0:10:57.196 But I would always go back and we'd go back 0:10:57.196 --> 0:10:59.796 and listen again before we record, and then he said, 0:10:59.796 --> 0:11:01.076 what you want to do right here? What do you 0:11:01.076 --> 0:11:03.236 want to do? And then I kind of learned in 0:11:03.276 --> 0:11:07.756 a very unorthodox style from classical to you know, R 0:11:07.836 --> 0:11:10.556 and B and might And the best teacher I ever 0:11:10.596 --> 0:11:12.836 had was the late Louis Saddafield, who was a trumpbone 0:11:12.836 --> 0:11:15.196 player in the Phoenix Horns, who went to college with Maurice, 0:11:15.476 --> 0:11:16.996 and so I had a chance to kind of do both, 0:11:17.036 --> 0:11:19.116 you know, look at the paper, throw the paper away, 0:11:19.116 --> 0:11:21.276 and then create my own style. So a lot of 0:11:21.276 --> 0:11:22.876 times I would just listen to see what I was 0:11:22.916 --> 0:11:25.556 gonna do. Would it be a demo, would he be 0:11:25.596 --> 0:11:28.836 a recorded demo. Sometimes it could be a demo. Sometimes 0:11:28.916 --> 0:11:30.396 it could be when we were sitting in the room 0:11:30.636 --> 0:11:32.636 and he would just start playing. Then I would just 0:11:32.636 --> 0:11:36.036 start playing, and then while I'm playing, I would imagine, 0:11:36.116 --> 0:11:38.676 you know, I'm gonna try this when I listened to 0:11:38.716 --> 0:11:41.396 it back. So I would just spend time just listening. 0:11:41.836 --> 0:11:44.796 And sometimes if Maurice was writing with somebody, I'd lay 0:11:44.796 --> 0:11:46.356 on the couch and just listen while he was doing 0:11:46.396 --> 0:11:47.876 and I said, wait till I get that, wait till 0:11:47.876 --> 0:11:49.676 I get to my part. I knew what kind of 0:11:49.676 --> 0:11:51.996 like what I was gonna do, you know, but I 0:11:52.036 --> 0:11:54.236 had room to do it in, you know. And some 0:11:54.316 --> 0:11:56.796 of the songwriters they said, I never intended the base 0:11:56.836 --> 0:11:58.196 to sound like that, you know what I mean, because 0:11:58.196 --> 0:12:00.956 they sort of had a preconceived idea of what basios 0:12:00.956 --> 0:12:03.036 sound like. And I kind of broke a lot of rules. 0:12:03.196 --> 0:12:06.716 You know. I was not your normal guy, you know, 0:12:07.116 --> 0:12:09.236 you know, I wasn't. I wasn't the perfect guy for 0:12:09.276 --> 0:12:12.876 a guy who was stuck in their ways. That's part 0:12:12.876 --> 0:12:15.436 of why the band sounds so original. Love that's like 0:12:15.516 --> 0:12:18.276 that's one of the keys. It's like they are several, 0:12:18.356 --> 0:12:21.156 but that's certainly one of them absolutely, and you know, 0:12:21.156 --> 0:12:23.756 and what's really interesting about it, Rick is that you know, 0:12:23.956 --> 0:12:26.636 there's an Earthlin and Fire song being played somewhere in 0:12:26.636 --> 0:12:30.556 the world every minute and fifteen seconds every day, every 0:12:30.556 --> 0:12:33.316 hour of the day. Beautiful was the majority of the 0:12:34.036 --> 0:12:37.596 basic tracks cut live as a band. Yeah, so everybody's 0:12:37.596 --> 0:12:40.276 playing together about and people thought that, you know, we 0:12:40.276 --> 0:12:44.156 were playing with a click track. Never did wow. Never. Wow. 0:12:44.356 --> 0:12:47.436 It's amazing just because again because of the precision, they 0:12:47.516 --> 0:12:51.196 almost sound inhuman, you know, like it's so perfect. It's 0:12:51.236 --> 0:12:55.516 like it's just beyond perfect in how tight everything is 0:12:55.916 --> 0:12:58.796 and the horns, you know, being that's another part of it, 0:12:58.836 --> 0:13:02.236 is like the horns are so fast and tight and 0:13:03.316 --> 0:13:08.156 it's unbelievable. It's just unbelievable to hear that kind of precision. Yeah, well, 0:13:08.196 --> 0:13:11.436 you know, Maurice was a stickler for that. Maurice was like, uh, 0:13:12.036 --> 0:13:14.236 you know, we think we worked hard, but nobody worked 0:13:14.236 --> 0:13:16.156 as hard as Maurice. You know, he wrote it, he 0:13:16.276 --> 0:13:18.396 produced it, he performed, and he was a hell of 0:13:18.396 --> 0:13:20.916 a performer too, and a great drummer, which he does 0:13:20.916 --> 0:13:23.116 in blot Up. The younger generation don't know how great 0:13:23.156 --> 0:13:25.636 of a drummer he really was. He played on Rescue Me, 0:13:27.156 --> 0:13:31.116 he played on Billy Stewart Summertime, This Maurice, you know, 0:13:31.516 --> 0:13:33.356 and he played on those great records with Ramsey Lewis. 0:13:33.396 --> 0:13:35.756 So he had she had. He had a very extensive background. 0:13:35.796 --> 0:13:37.276 By the time he got to Earth and Fire, he 0:13:37.356 --> 0:13:39.636 knew who he was. You know, this was he had 0:13:39.676 --> 0:13:42.356 no doubt who he was as a person and as 0:13:42.356 --> 0:13:44.796 an artist. This was not like something he was, you know, 0:13:44.836 --> 0:13:46.556 trying to find his way. He knew exactly what he 0:13:46.596 --> 0:13:48.596 wanted and he dragged me along with him. So I'm 0:13:48.596 --> 0:13:52.036 happy for that. You know, no, absolutely beautiful and that 0:13:52.116 --> 0:13:54.636 you had a beautiful life getting to play music. It's 0:13:54.636 --> 0:13:58.956 like what better, what better contribution can you make then 0:13:59.076 --> 0:14:03.836 making something that enlivens you and the people that get 0:14:03.836 --> 0:14:06.236 to share it. And with my older brother Idol what 0:14:06.636 --> 0:14:07.836 you know what I'm saying, You know what I mean? 0:14:07.956 --> 0:14:10.396 Sometimes when I do interview, you know, people said, Jenner, 0:14:10.396 --> 0:14:13.876 what would the older Verdeen tell the younger Verdeen? And always, 0:14:13.916 --> 0:14:14.916 you know, you know how they do, you know, they 0:14:14.916 --> 0:14:16.356 get those questions, you know what I mean. You know 0:14:16.356 --> 0:14:18.196 it's not you know, it's not a sprint but a 0:14:18.276 --> 0:14:21.716 journey kind of thing. You know, right, I said that 0:14:21.716 --> 0:14:24.116 didn't apply to me because I was the younger guy, 0:14:24.196 --> 0:14:26.476 was already doing what he was doing. You thought about 0:14:26.916 --> 0:14:29.436 and being with Maurice, you know, it kind of broke 0:14:29.436 --> 0:14:31.276 a lot of rules being a young person too. You know, 0:14:31.596 --> 0:14:33.636 let me know that I could do it, and you know, 0:14:33.676 --> 0:14:36.276 if you stay on it, this is what you're gonna do. 0:14:36.676 --> 0:14:39.636 Hard being in a group with so many people. Yeah, 0:14:39.676 --> 0:14:41.796 but you know, we got a lot of love of 0:14:41.836 --> 0:14:43.716 respect for each other, you know, And don't forget now, 0:14:44.116 --> 0:14:46.236 you know. You know Philip Ralph myself, you know, we 0:14:46.316 --> 0:14:49.996 became adults together, so you know, that's a different point 0:14:49.996 --> 0:14:52.156 of view. You know, what year to Philip join? Do 0:14:52.156 --> 0:14:57.356 you remember, like seventy see from seventy one? Yeah, really 0:14:57.716 --> 0:15:02.116 I didn't. I didn't realize that for almost fifty five years. Wow. 0:15:02.276 --> 0:15:04.476 And what happened when the first Earth and the fire 0:15:04.516 --> 0:15:07.636 broke up and on the Warner brothers, Philip used to 0:15:07.716 --> 0:15:09.956 come and hang out and I I spent the afternoon 0:15:09.956 --> 0:15:12.436 with them, you know, and we got along so well. 0:15:12.516 --> 0:15:15.316 But I had saw him play in Denver with the band, 0:15:15.556 --> 0:15:17.436 but he had moved to California and then he spent 0:15:17.436 --> 0:15:19.076 the whole afternoon and it was just so great that 0:15:19.196 --> 0:15:21.916 liked them so much, you know, And and I called 0:15:21.916 --> 0:15:24.796 my mother, I said, so he even plays harmonica, you 0:15:24.836 --> 0:15:26.716 know what I mean? And never saw anybody play harmonica, right, 0:15:27.076 --> 0:15:29.916 And then when Reese was formulating and things like that, 0:15:29.916 --> 0:15:33.356 that it was down to two other people, and Marie said, 0:15:33.356 --> 0:15:35.476 who should we get? Said we should get Philip because 0:15:35.476 --> 0:15:37.756 that's because he's a really good guy, you know what 0:15:37.796 --> 0:15:39.636 I mean, the spirit of it, you know what I mean. 0:15:39.956 --> 0:15:42.156 And it would only take a good person to go 0:15:42.196 --> 0:15:44.556 to journey that we ended up going. You know. In 0:15:44.636 --> 0:15:47.876 the last week, I had a conversation with two different artists, 0:15:47.916 --> 0:15:51.156 one with Farrell and one with Q Tip, two great 0:15:51.276 --> 0:15:55.556 artists referenced this week Earthwinn and Fire being the reason 0:15:55.636 --> 0:15:57.996 they make music again again. It's just like it's it's 0:15:58.036 --> 0:16:02.836 beautiful to see it from different people, different ages, in 0:16:02.916 --> 0:16:07.556 different genres, how inspirational it was and continues to be. 0:16:07.716 --> 0:16:11.076 It's just it's beautiful, beautiful to be part of something 0:16:11.316 --> 0:16:16.756 so that has informed people's lives in such an important way. Yeah, yeah, 0:16:16.756 --> 0:16:19.676 I think what's going on with this this uh, with 0:16:19.716 --> 0:16:22.076 the quarantine that we all are in, and it's a 0:16:22.116 --> 0:16:24.836 collective experience that we're all having. You know, as we know, 0:16:25.476 --> 0:16:29.676 people are going back you know to really great works, 0:16:29.716 --> 0:16:31.836 great books, they're going back to great movies, they're going 0:16:31.836 --> 0:16:34.236 back to great records. And I think, of course our 0:16:34.276 --> 0:16:36.356 work is part of what they want to go back to, 0:16:36.556 --> 0:16:38.436 you know, and that and their ears are actually open 0:16:38.516 --> 0:16:42.156 more now they're having the opportunity to listen better. You know, 0:16:42.196 --> 0:16:44.516 we've had in the great society and the politics right 0:16:44.516 --> 0:16:46.796 and things like that. We're headed for a great awakening. 0:16:46.836 --> 0:16:49.476 I would call this next phase the great awakening for us. 0:16:50.036 --> 0:16:52.796 We'll be back with Rick Rubin and Verding White after 0:16:52.836 --> 0:17:00.396 the break. We're back with more from Verding White of Earth, 0:17:00.396 --> 0:17:04.236 Winn and Fire. Tell me about Charles Stepney. What was 0:17:04.356 --> 0:17:08.316 his involvement as producer? What did he do, because you know, 0:17:08.356 --> 0:17:11.876 producers do differ things. Tell me about him and his 0:17:11.956 --> 0:17:14.716 involvement in the process. Well, Charles, first of all, was 0:17:14.716 --> 0:17:17.596 a great friend of Maurice's and they worked together at 0:17:17.636 --> 0:17:21.156 Chess Records. And then Charles had done a lot of 0:17:21.196 --> 0:17:25.676 arrangements for Ramsey Lewis with Maurice, and Charles was the 0:17:25.716 --> 0:17:28.116 one that brought Many Riverton on the scene. You know, 0:17:28.476 --> 0:17:31.356 The first album was called Come to My Garden, which 0:17:31.436 --> 0:17:34.316 was a great, great, great great record, and they just 0:17:34.356 --> 0:17:38.116 stayed in touch. And then Charles had done the Last 0:17:38.156 --> 0:17:41.276 Days and Times record for us, the first record we 0:17:41.316 --> 0:17:43.836 did for Clive Davis on Columbia Records. Charles did that. 0:17:44.356 --> 0:17:46.316 Then Charles came back again and worked with us on 0:17:46.516 --> 0:17:48.636 Open Our Eyes That's the Way of the World, the 0:17:48.676 --> 0:17:52.116 breakthrough record for us and the Spirit Record, which he 0:17:52.156 --> 0:17:54.916 passed away on the Spirit Record. And Charles was our 0:17:55.636 --> 0:17:59.196 father figure, big brother. He was the one that Maurice 0:17:59.196 --> 0:18:01.636 would listen to the most. Charles will said, we're gonna 0:18:01.636 --> 0:18:03.716 do it like this, and Reese would do it. And 0:18:03.836 --> 0:18:06.556 Charles was great for myself and Philip and all of us, 0:18:06.716 --> 0:18:09.916 all of us together, and he was actually took our 0:18:09.956 --> 0:18:12.836 George Martin, even though you guys are from Chicago, you 0:18:12.876 --> 0:18:16.116 consider yourself a Chicago bandy. You can side yourself California band. 0:18:17.036 --> 0:18:19.836 I say California now, you know, because I became an 0:18:19.836 --> 0:18:22.436 adult here. You know. We came from Chicago, which brought 0:18:22.476 --> 0:18:26.076 a certain sensibility, you know to it, you know, yeah, 0:18:26.236 --> 0:18:28.836 and a good foundation, you know, because I came from 0:18:28.836 --> 0:18:31.236 a good family background. My mom and dad. My dad 0:18:31.316 --> 0:18:33.516 was a doctor, my mom was a school teacher, and 0:18:33.516 --> 0:18:34.836 we had a lot of music around the house. So 0:18:34.876 --> 0:18:37.036 that was good. That's what I brought to California. And 0:18:37.076 --> 0:18:39.396 then when I got with Maurice, you know what I mean, 0:18:39.476 --> 0:18:41.636 you know, working with him closely and living with him, 0:18:41.676 --> 0:18:43.996 I had a chance to figure out where he was 0:18:43.996 --> 0:18:45.636 coming from. And he would talk to me about music 0:18:45.676 --> 0:18:48.876 a lot, you know, and so that so and then 0:18:48.916 --> 0:18:52.076 we became Californians. He did too, you know what I mean, 0:18:52.076 --> 0:18:54.356 because we got into yoga, we got into meditation, we 0:18:54.396 --> 0:18:57.116 got into eating good, we got into you know, uh, 0:18:57.596 --> 0:18:59.996 going to seminars at the booty Tree, you know, things 0:19:00.036 --> 0:19:01.356 like that, you know what I mean. So we became 0:19:01.396 --> 0:19:05.996 actually California, you know, the Californias started eating yogurt. So yeah, 0:19:06.156 --> 0:19:11.196 how how important was the spiritual aspect in addition to 0:19:11.236 --> 0:19:13.516 the music? Like what Riese was sort of always open, 0:19:13.596 --> 0:19:15.196 you know what I mean. You know, he was always open, 0:19:15.276 --> 0:19:17.236 you know, and it was always loose. It was never 0:19:17.316 --> 0:19:19.156 like heavy. It was not like a dogma, you know 0:19:19.196 --> 0:19:21.876 what I'm talking about. It was loose. We didn't get 0:19:21.876 --> 0:19:24.396 in each other's way spiritually, things like that. It was 0:19:24.436 --> 0:19:26.516 just a progression, you know what I mean. And then 0:19:26.676 --> 0:19:28.636 you know, we adopted you know a lot of the 0:19:28.676 --> 0:19:31.916 California stuff, which was actually kind of natural. Of course 0:19:31.916 --> 0:19:33.516 we didn't do that. You couldn't do that in Chicago. 0:19:33.516 --> 0:19:35.436 That would be too weird, lighting incense, you know it be. 0:19:35.836 --> 0:19:39.196 And but it was we got into the California thing, 0:19:39.396 --> 0:19:42.556 you know, which was wide open. I don't think we 0:19:42.636 --> 0:19:45.076 ever would have made it as big had we not 0:19:45.156 --> 0:19:48.356 come to California. It opened your mind to new things 0:19:48.396 --> 0:19:52.156 being in California, you think, right, and new creativity because 0:19:52.156 --> 0:19:54.396 don't forget now this is where everybody came you know, 0:19:54.476 --> 0:19:56.236 this is where everybody's still. This is where eybody is 0:19:56.236 --> 0:19:58.396 coming back to now, you know what I mean, because 0:19:58.436 --> 0:20:02.796 of the just the openness of thought, of possibilities. You know, 0:20:03.276 --> 0:20:05.516 there was You came from a musical household. Tell me 0:20:05.556 --> 0:20:07.756 about the actual music that would be playing in the house. 0:20:07.756 --> 0:20:10.436 What do you remember, first member as a kid, what 0:20:10.716 --> 0:20:13.556 might be playing in the house. Anything. It was nine 0:20:13.596 --> 0:20:15.796 of us, so it was noisy. So you get it. 0:20:15.836 --> 0:20:19.676 You get in where you fit in. And so in 0:20:19.716 --> 0:20:21.916 one room, my sister would be listening to the radio 0:20:21.956 --> 0:20:25.436 station w v O M of Chicago, she used to 0:20:25.436 --> 0:20:28.796 listen to Pervous band The Blues Man. My dad would 0:20:28.836 --> 0:20:31.836 be listening to Maheley Jackson because he loved Mahley Jackson, 0:20:31.876 --> 0:20:34.996 you know, things like that. My mom loved Little Roles, 0:20:35.156 --> 0:20:38.796 uh live at the Copa, you know. And then and 0:20:38.836 --> 0:20:41.516