1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:26,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin, Earthwin and Fire are the Black Beatles. Their influence 2 00:00:27,036 --> 00:00:30,316 Speaker 1: can't be overstated. You'd be hard pressed to find a 3 00:00:30,356 --> 00:00:34,356 Speaker 1: wedding or graduation party in the last fifty years where 4 00:00:34,396 --> 00:00:37,796 Speaker 1: their music didn't bring generations together to dance and sing 5 00:00:37,836 --> 00:00:52,916 Speaker 1: their hearts out. Do you remember love is changing? Earth 6 00:00:52,916 --> 00:00:57,356 Speaker 1: Winn and Fires music is intricate, combining melody with mysticism 7 00:00:57,356 --> 00:01:00,636 Speaker 1: and jazz to create some of the most instantly recognizable 8 00:01:00,676 --> 00:01:04,916 Speaker 1: and profound music of the seventies. Earthwin and Fire's groove 9 00:01:05,196 --> 00:01:08,756 Speaker 1: is emmets, and that's not an accident. Verice White you 10 00:01:08,876 --> 00:01:11,876 Speaker 1: start to Earthwin and Fire in nineteen sixty nine, spent 11 00:01:12,036 --> 00:01:15,316 Speaker 1: years as a jazz drummer around Chicago before becoming a 12 00:01:15,396 --> 00:01:18,356 Speaker 1: front man, and the group's rhythm section was held down 13 00:01:18,356 --> 00:01:22,996 Speaker 1: by his brothers, including Verdine White on bass. Earthwin and 14 00:01:22,996 --> 00:01:25,996 Speaker 1: Fire might have been Maurice's musical vision, but the band's 15 00:01:26,036 --> 00:01:29,876 Speaker 1: spirit always came from his younger brother Verdeen. His sheer 16 00:01:30,036 --> 00:01:33,356 Speaker 1: joy for music can't be contained on stage with the 17 00:01:33,436 --> 00:01:37,036 Speaker 1: sequined outfits and long pressed hair, Verdein dances with as 18 00:01:37,116 --> 00:01:40,756 Speaker 1: much dexterity as he plays bass. Ferdine has been leading 19 00:01:40,756 --> 00:01:43,756 Speaker 1: the group along with Philip Bailey since the nineties, when 20 00:01:43,796 --> 00:01:46,396 Speaker 1: Maurice stepped back from the band due to Parkinson's disease, 21 00:01:46,676 --> 00:01:50,756 Speaker 1: which he ultimately passed from. In twenty sixteen, Rick Rubin 22 00:01:50,796 --> 00:01:52,996 Speaker 1: connected with the Verdeen to talk about the early days 23 00:01:52,996 --> 00:01:56,116 Speaker 1: of Earthwin and Fire and about their producer Charles Stepney, 24 00:01:56,436 --> 00:02:00,516 Speaker 1: who Verdeine calls They're George Mark. Also, Rick reads to 25 00:02:00,596 --> 00:02:03,116 Speaker 1: Verdeine a poignant note from the Red Hot Chili Peppers 26 00:02:03,156 --> 00:02:11,116 Speaker 1: Flee about what makes Verdein's bass playing so special. This 27 00:02:11,196 --> 00:02:14,076 Speaker 1: is broken record liner notes for the digital age. I'm 28 00:02:14,116 --> 00:02:23,116 Speaker 1: justin Mitch Wind. Here's Rick Rubin and Verdine White. What's 29 00:02:23,116 --> 00:02:25,836 Speaker 1: happened in Good to see you? Good to see you too. 30 00:02:25,876 --> 00:02:28,236 Speaker 1: How are you? My friend? Very well? How are you? 31 00:02:28,516 --> 00:02:31,396 Speaker 1: I'm fantastic so good to see you. Yeah, I wanted 32 00:02:31,436 --> 00:02:35,836 Speaker 1: to I was just talking to Flee about that we 33 00:02:35,836 --> 00:02:38,036 Speaker 1: were going to be speaking. I want to read to 34 00:02:38,076 --> 00:02:41,036 Speaker 1: you what he says. He said Verdein was the guy 35 00:02:41,076 --> 00:02:45,476 Speaker 1: who who played massive pop hits where he rocked virtuoso 36 00:02:45,556 --> 00:02:49,156 Speaker 1: bass playing in the context of memorable grooves that doesn't 37 00:02:49,196 --> 00:02:53,116 Speaker 1: exist anymore, and how Earthwind and Fires music appealed more 38 00:02:53,156 --> 00:02:58,516 Speaker 1: than any other band of all time to all all ages, 39 00:02:58,676 --> 00:03:02,036 Speaker 1: all ethnicities. And when I was a kid in middle school, 40 00:03:02,036 --> 00:03:04,796 Speaker 1: this is Flee talking. The black kids like p Funk, 41 00:03:04,956 --> 00:03:07,956 Speaker 1: the white kids like Kiss and led Zeppelin. Everybody loved 42 00:03:07,996 --> 00:03:12,516 Speaker 1: earth Wind and Fire. Old, young, black, white, Mexican, Asian. Amazing, 43 00:03:12,676 --> 00:03:15,476 Speaker 1: And I think I've always strived for based on earth 44 00:03:15,516 --> 00:03:18,956 Speaker 1: Wind and Fire. Oh wow, and then beautiful it's heavy. 45 00:03:19,596 --> 00:03:21,876 Speaker 1: I love. I've known three for a long time, A 46 00:03:21,916 --> 00:03:24,396 Speaker 1: long long time, you know, yeah, yeah. How how much 47 00:03:24,436 --> 00:03:27,636 Speaker 1: do you guys practice historically? When we do it? We 48 00:03:27,716 --> 00:03:31,036 Speaker 1: do soundchecks every day. I never miss a soundcheck. When 49 00:03:31,036 --> 00:03:34,796 Speaker 1: we do big production rehearsals, it's big. It's a lot. 50 00:03:35,396 --> 00:03:37,356 Speaker 1: If rehearsals start at ten o'clock in the morning, I 51 00:03:37,356 --> 00:03:39,676 Speaker 1: am there at nine. If it starts at eleven, I'm 52 00:03:39,716 --> 00:03:41,956 Speaker 1: there at ten. If it starts at four o'clock in 53 00:03:41,996 --> 00:03:43,996 Speaker 1: the morning, I'm at three o'clock in the morning. I 54 00:03:43,996 --> 00:03:47,596 Speaker 1: still do the same things. Those same rituals don't have 55 00:03:47,756 --> 00:03:51,476 Speaker 1: never changed for me. Amazing. It brings up were there 56 00:03:51,516 --> 00:03:56,236 Speaker 1: any rituals that your band would do before you would 57 00:03:56,276 --> 00:04:00,156 Speaker 1: go on stage? Was there any any practices what we 58 00:04:00,236 --> 00:04:04,796 Speaker 1: still do. We call it the circle. We get into 59 00:04:04,836 --> 00:04:09,876 Speaker 1: the circle. You know, we throw everything out of the day. 60 00:04:10,276 --> 00:04:12,716 Speaker 1: You know, for us, it's the start of another day, 61 00:04:13,676 --> 00:04:16,036 Speaker 1: you know. You know how you meditate in the morning 62 00:04:16,476 --> 00:04:18,516 Speaker 1: and then you meditate in the evening, it's really at 63 00:04:18,516 --> 00:04:21,756 Speaker 1: the beginning of another day. So we throw everything out 64 00:04:22,316 --> 00:04:24,676 Speaker 1: and we tune in as to what we need to do. 65 00:04:24,756 --> 00:04:27,156 Speaker 1: And we have honorary members sometimes that have come to 66 00:04:27,196 --> 00:04:30,596 Speaker 1: our circle, you know. You know Russell Wilson, you know, 67 00:04:30,636 --> 00:04:32,836 Speaker 1: he was in our circle one evening. Dion World was 68 00:04:32,876 --> 00:04:35,596 Speaker 1: in our circle. And we invite people in sometimes to 69 00:04:35,676 --> 00:04:39,076 Speaker 1: the circle because it's a sacred circle, beautiful, and we say, 70 00:04:39,116 --> 00:04:40,756 Speaker 1: for that night, you are in the band, you are 71 00:04:40,796 --> 00:04:42,916 Speaker 1: part of the music tonight. And a lot of people 72 00:04:42,956 --> 00:04:44,516 Speaker 1: want to get into the circle because they want to 73 00:04:44,516 --> 00:04:48,316 Speaker 1: feel what we are feeling. And although we are in 74 00:04:48,996 --> 00:04:52,476 Speaker 1: all individuals, we all have different things, different lifestyles. When 75 00:04:52,516 --> 00:04:55,356 Speaker 1: we get into that circle, we get into that the 76 00:04:55,436 --> 00:04:59,316 Speaker 1: earth when the ebf or the fire vibration, you know, 77 00:04:59,356 --> 00:05:02,156 Speaker 1: which we tune back into. You know, my late brother Maurice, 78 00:05:02,236 --> 00:05:04,076 Speaker 1: we tune in all the work he did, all the 79 00:05:04,116 --> 00:05:07,396 Speaker 1: records we did. The late Charles stepped me, our arranger, producer, 80 00:05:07,996 --> 00:05:10,436 Speaker 1: you know, thing like that. So we tune right back 81 00:05:10,436 --> 00:05:14,156 Speaker 1: into earth wind and fire, all those qualities, you know, 82 00:05:14,156 --> 00:05:16,956 Speaker 1: as we talk about we buy into it. Have you 83 00:05:16,996 --> 00:05:22,596 Speaker 1: always been doing this forever? Wow? Since the seventies, forever beautiful. 84 00:05:22,636 --> 00:05:25,476 Speaker 1: We have programmed books of back in the day when 85 00:05:25,516 --> 00:05:28,276 Speaker 1: we were in the circle, our choreographers, when we had dancers, 86 00:05:28,276 --> 00:05:30,796 Speaker 1: the dancers were in the circle. We've always done that. 87 00:05:30,996 --> 00:05:33,636 Speaker 1: So when we go on stage, we are you know, 88 00:05:34,196 --> 00:05:37,556 Speaker 1: Umfordane White, we have Philip Bailey, we have Ralph Johnson. 89 00:05:37,876 --> 00:05:39,516 Speaker 1: You know, the three of us are the leaders now 90 00:05:39,836 --> 00:05:41,756 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Philip and I. But we 91 00:05:41,796 --> 00:05:43,796 Speaker 1: get into the things that we created. Don't forget that 92 00:05:43,876 --> 00:05:46,156 Speaker 1: we created earthwin and fire. So we go right back 93 00:05:46,196 --> 00:05:49,876 Speaker 1: to that place, you know, that sacred space of that thing, 94 00:05:49,916 --> 00:05:52,956 Speaker 1: you know, beautiful beautiful. I'm so glad you do it. 95 00:05:52,956 --> 00:05:55,516 Speaker 1: It's it's just such a beautiful thing. So you really 96 00:05:55,956 --> 00:06:00,956 Speaker 1: unifies the players into being not themselves anymore, but into 97 00:06:00,996 --> 00:06:03,956 Speaker 1: this thing, this thing earth wind and Fire. Is that 98 00:06:04,036 --> 00:06:06,716 Speaker 1: would that be accurate? That's right of what that is 99 00:06:06,796 --> 00:06:10,796 Speaker 1: or what we created and what we stand for, what 100 00:06:10,916 --> 00:06:13,756 Speaker 1: our intentions have been. You know, because we've been around, 101 00:06:13,836 --> 00:06:17,796 Speaker 1: I mean, we've had a record out every generation, right, 102 00:06:17,876 --> 00:06:19,396 Speaker 1: you know, you know, right now we have this song. 103 00:06:19,436 --> 00:06:21,356 Speaker 1: I would make a train of a Christmas but we've 104 00:06:21,356 --> 00:06:23,916 Speaker 1: had records out. But now what happens with us? The 105 00:06:23,956 --> 00:06:26,996 Speaker 1: older people turned the younger people on to us, and 106 00:06:27,076 --> 00:06:30,916 Speaker 1: they go back and start listening, you know. And what 107 00:06:30,996 --> 00:06:35,036 Speaker 1: I find now that the other generations and other musicians 108 00:06:35,036 --> 00:06:37,556 Speaker 1: like Flee knows our work, but the younger musicians want 109 00:06:37,556 --> 00:06:40,356 Speaker 1: to know what it's like being us and how do 110 00:06:40,396 --> 00:06:44,236 Speaker 1: you get there? You know? Yes, And I think what's 111 00:06:44,236 --> 00:06:47,436 Speaker 1: going on with the younger people. I don't think they're concerned. 112 00:06:47,516 --> 00:06:49,436 Speaker 1: I think it used to be I want to be successful. 113 00:06:50,396 --> 00:06:54,036 Speaker 1: Now I think they want to be immortal and leave 114 00:06:54,036 --> 00:06:56,316 Speaker 1: a legacy. And they look at us as guys that 115 00:06:56,396 --> 00:06:57,836 Speaker 1: have done that, so they want to know how do 116 00:06:57,876 --> 00:07:01,196 Speaker 1: we get that? Because success comes and goes, you know, 117 00:07:01,236 --> 00:07:04,596 Speaker 1: depending on the culture, depending on what the wind, like 118 00:07:04,636 --> 00:07:07,036 Speaker 1: a tennis ball or golf ball. The cross winds could 119 00:07:07,076 --> 00:07:09,996 Speaker 1: throw you off, right, you know, but when you're when 120 00:07:10,036 --> 00:07:12,636 Speaker 1: you're when you turn out to be a legend or immortality, 121 00:07:12,636 --> 00:07:16,916 Speaker 1: it stays forever. And so so few of your contemporaries 122 00:07:17,796 --> 00:07:20,876 Speaker 1: have managed to keep going, Like who were the bands? 123 00:07:20,876 --> 00:07:24,396 Speaker 1: Who would you say were the competition in the early 124 00:07:24,476 --> 00:07:27,476 Speaker 1: days when in the early days there was people like 125 00:07:28,196 --> 00:07:35,796 Speaker 1: Ohio players right, war Man Rule, right, you know, groups 126 00:07:35,836 --> 00:07:38,836 Speaker 1: like that Commodore's right Linel on them, you know. And 127 00:07:38,876 --> 00:07:40,276 Speaker 1: I do see Lionel and I spect a line of 128 00:07:40,356 --> 00:07:43,676 Speaker 1: quite a lot. And so those who are contemporaries at 129 00:07:43,676 --> 00:07:45,556 Speaker 1: that time, and at that particular time, we were just 130 00:07:45,636 --> 00:07:48,556 Speaker 1: kind of starting out and we were growing up. But 131 00:07:48,356 --> 00:07:50,516 Speaker 1: the but Maurice, because he was older than us, ten 132 00:07:50,596 --> 00:07:53,356 Speaker 1: years older, he was more mature, so he knew kind 133 00:07:53,356 --> 00:07:56,836 Speaker 1: of like where we were headed, you know, where we 134 00:07:56,916 --> 00:07:59,316 Speaker 1: ended up being. He was already there. You know, he 135 00:07:59,356 --> 00:08:01,036 Speaker 1: was I think kind of when I look back at it, 136 00:08:01,076 --> 00:08:04,236 Speaker 1: he was kind of waiting for us to catch up. Wow, 137 00:08:04,356 --> 00:08:06,716 Speaker 1: and and and and Reese. Although he was you know, 138 00:08:06,956 --> 00:08:08,596 Speaker 1: he was a great leader. He was a tough leader. 139 00:08:08,636 --> 00:08:11,676 Speaker 1: He was really actually patient with us too, you know, 140 00:08:11,716 --> 00:08:12,956 Speaker 1: and a lot of the stuff that we would do 141 00:08:12,996 --> 00:08:14,676 Speaker 1: he'd laugh at because he said, Okay, when they get 142 00:08:14,676 --> 00:08:16,436 Speaker 1: past that, then we'll have a good talk, you know. 143 00:08:16,796 --> 00:08:20,836 Speaker 1: And Maurice didn't really write his book until he saw 144 00:08:20,876 --> 00:08:23,716 Speaker 1: us at the Hollywood Bowl. Maurice came out that brought 145 00:08:23,796 --> 00:08:26,556 Speaker 1: him out walked him out to the fans and people 146 00:08:26,596 --> 00:08:29,436 Speaker 1: gave him a standing ovation. That's when he decided to 147 00:08:29,436 --> 00:08:31,556 Speaker 1: write the book because he said he knew that it 148 00:08:31,596 --> 00:08:34,396 Speaker 1: was in good hands. And that was our first time 149 00:08:34,476 --> 00:08:38,196 Speaker 1: playing with an orchestra and you know, ninety pieces, and 150 00:08:38,236 --> 00:08:40,156 Speaker 1: when we played the Hollywoo Bowl last year was beautiful 151 00:08:40,196 --> 00:08:43,356 Speaker 1: Brooke Box Office Records again Thomas Wilkins. And then we 152 00:08:43,516 --> 00:08:45,076 Speaker 1: kind of got out of you know, we're sort of 153 00:08:45,156 --> 00:08:47,956 Speaker 1: more into the like, you know, the Earth Winning Fire 154 00:08:48,836 --> 00:08:51,116 Speaker 1: what it means, not into the successful part of it, 155 00:08:51,156 --> 00:08:53,316 Speaker 1: because we kind of did that, you know, because success 156 00:08:53,436 --> 00:08:56,836 Speaker 1: kind of dictates you or me. But our thing is 157 00:08:57,036 --> 00:09:00,356 Speaker 1: you and me, so that's where we are amazing. It's 158 00:09:00,396 --> 00:09:02,276 Speaker 1: one of the things. It's like if I listened to 159 00:09:02,356 --> 00:09:06,316 Speaker 1: any other and I'm not limiting Earth Wind and Fire 160 00:09:06,356 --> 00:09:08,476 Speaker 1: to funk, but let's talk about funk just because it's 161 00:09:08,476 --> 00:09:13,556 Speaker 1: such a it's one of the pillars of Earth Winning 162 00:09:13,636 --> 00:09:16,076 Speaker 1: Fire as funk. And if I look at the other 163 00:09:16,116 --> 00:09:20,236 Speaker 1: funk music that I've listened to, there's always almost always 164 00:09:20,396 --> 00:09:23,636 Speaker 1: a looseness about it that you guys never you guys 165 00:09:23,636 --> 00:09:28,796 Speaker 1: always had a precision beyond any other band, making any 166 00:09:28,916 --> 00:09:34,076 Speaker 1: music related, it always seemed much tighter, much more precise, 167 00:09:34,756 --> 00:09:39,476 Speaker 1: much more like fanatical in a way, like just like perfect. 168 00:09:39,716 --> 00:09:43,356 Speaker 1: It was always perfect absolutely with us. We were never 169 00:09:43,396 --> 00:09:46,356 Speaker 1: what you call a jam jam band, you know, don't 170 00:09:46,396 --> 00:09:49,476 Speaker 1: forget number Reese's background was, you know, jazz, you know 171 00:09:49,476 --> 00:09:51,676 Speaker 1: what I mean. We come out of Chicago, you know, 172 00:09:52,156 --> 00:09:54,916 Speaker 1: Chess Records, you know things Maurice did you know, But 173 00:09:54,956 --> 00:09:56,756 Speaker 1: there was a precision to the music, you know, with 174 00:09:56,796 --> 00:10:00,236 Speaker 1: the late child Stepney with the horns, which people like 175 00:10:00,516 --> 00:10:03,156 Speaker 1: Quincy respected, you know, because Quincy's work was very precise. 176 00:10:03,196 --> 00:10:05,276 Speaker 1: With Michael Jackson, you know what I mean. So you 177 00:10:05,276 --> 00:10:07,796 Speaker 1: know it was always precision everything. You know, everything's on 178 00:10:07,836 --> 00:10:09,716 Speaker 1: the dot as we are now, as we are now. 179 00:10:09,796 --> 00:10:10,996 Speaker 1: You know, if we're get a little loose, we talk 180 00:10:11,036 --> 00:10:12,636 Speaker 1: about it, you know, we say, listen, we gott to 181 00:10:12,636 --> 00:10:14,476 Speaker 1: tighten this up here, because you can get a little loose. 182 00:10:14,556 --> 00:10:15,956 Speaker 1: You know, you can get a little loose. You can 183 00:10:16,036 --> 00:10:19,596 Speaker 1: forget where those bars are, you know, you know, on 184 00:10:19,756 --> 00:10:21,516 Speaker 1: maybe on the fourth night, when you're a little tired, 185 00:10:21,556 --> 00:10:23,676 Speaker 1: you might forget, you know, done about you know, you 186 00:10:23,676 --> 00:10:25,636 Speaker 1: have to remind yourself to be just a little bit 187 00:10:25,676 --> 00:10:29,476 Speaker 1: more on the dot you know. Yeah, as it relates 188 00:10:29,476 --> 00:10:32,876 Speaker 1: to bass playing, from the time that a song would 189 00:10:33,156 --> 00:10:37,516 Speaker 1: come into existence, how would the bass evolve into what 190 00:10:37,556 --> 00:10:41,436 Speaker 1: we hear on the record version? Like how close would 191 00:10:41,436 --> 00:10:43,396 Speaker 1: it be from the first time you play it? Let's say, 192 00:10:43,796 --> 00:10:47,236 Speaker 1: tell me about the process of developing the bass. But 193 00:10:47,436 --> 00:10:49,916 Speaker 1: the process would because Maurice is a drummer, so I 194 00:10:49,916 --> 00:10:52,236 Speaker 1: would hear all the songs, and he'd played me a 195 00:10:52,236 --> 00:10:54,596 Speaker 1: lot of the tune, so our groove was pretty natural. 196 00:10:55,236 --> 00:10:57,196 Speaker 1: But I would always go back and we'd go back 197 00:10:57,196 --> 00:10:59,796 Speaker 1: and listen again before we record, and then he said, 198 00:10:59,796 --> 00:11:01,076 Speaker 1: what you want to do right here? What do you 199 00:11:01,076 --> 00:11:03,236 Speaker 1: want to do? And then I kind of learned in 200 00:11:03,276 --> 00:11:07,756 Speaker 1: a very unorthodox style from classical to you know, R 201 00:11:07,836 --> 00:11:10,556 Speaker 1: and B and might And the best teacher I ever 202 00:11:10,596 --> 00:11:12,836 Speaker 1: had was the late Louis Saddafield, who was a trumpbone 203 00:11:12,836 --> 00:11:15,196 Speaker 1: player in the Phoenix Horns, who went to college with Maurice, 204 00:11:15,476 --> 00:11:16,996 Speaker 1: and so I had a chance to kind of do both, 205 00:11:17,036 --> 00:11:19,116 Speaker 1: you know, look at the paper, throw the paper away, 206 00:11:19,116 --> 00:11:21,276 Speaker 1: and then create my own style. So a lot of 207 00:11:21,276 --> 00:11:22,876 Speaker 1: times I would just listen to see what I was 208 00:11:22,916 --> 00:11:25,556 Speaker 1: gonna do. Would it be a demo, would he be 209 00:11:25,596 --> 00:11:28,836 Speaker 1: a recorded demo. Sometimes it could be a demo. Sometimes 210 00:11:28,916 --> 00:11:30,396 Speaker 1: it could be when we were sitting in the room 211 00:11:30,636 --> 00:11:32,636 Speaker 1: and he would just start playing. Then I would just 212 00:11:32,636 --> 00:11:36,036 Speaker 1: start playing, and then while I'm playing, I would imagine, 213 00:11:36,116 --> 00:11:38,676 Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna try this when I listened to 214 00:11:38,716 --> 00:11:41,396 Speaker 1: it back. So I would just spend time just listening. 215 00:11:41,836 --> 00:11:44,796 Speaker 1: And sometimes if Maurice was writing with somebody, I'd lay 216 00:11:44,796 --> 00:11:46,356 Speaker 1: on the couch and just listen while he was doing 217 00:11:46,396 --> 00:11:47,876 Speaker 1: and I said, wait till I get that, wait till 218 00:11:47,876 --> 00:11:49,676 Speaker 1: I get to my part. I knew what kind of 219 00:11:49,676 --> 00:11:51,996 Speaker 1: like what I was gonna do, you know, but I 220 00:11:52,036 --> 00:11:54,236 Speaker 1: had room to do it in, you know. And some 221 00:11:54,316 --> 00:11:56,796 Speaker 1: of the songwriters they said, I never intended the base 222 00:11:56,836 --> 00:11:58,196 Speaker 1: to sound like that, you know what I mean, because 223 00:11:58,196 --> 00:12:00,956 Speaker 1: they sort of had a preconceived idea of what basios 224 00:12:00,956 --> 00:12:03,036 Speaker 1: sound like. And I kind of broke a lot of rules. 225 00:12:03,196 --> 00:12:06,716 Speaker 1: You know. I was not your normal guy, you know, 226 00:12:07,116 --> 00:12:09,236 Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't. I wasn't the perfect guy for 227 00:12:09,276 --> 00:12:12,876 Speaker 1: a guy who was stuck in their ways. That's part 228 00:12:12,876 --> 00:12:15,436 Speaker 1: of why the band sounds so original. Love that's like 229 00:12:15,516 --> 00:12:18,276 Speaker 1: that's one of the keys. It's like they are several, 230 00:12:18,356 --> 00:12:21,156 Speaker 1: but that's certainly one of them absolutely, and you know, 231 00:12:21,156 --> 00:12:23,756 Speaker 1: and what's really interesting about it, Rick is that you know, 232 00:12:23,956 --> 00:12:26,636 Speaker 1: there's an Earthlin and Fire song being played somewhere in 233 00:12:26,636 --> 00:12:30,556 Speaker 1: the world every minute and fifteen seconds every day, every 234 00:12:30,556 --> 00:12:33,316 Speaker 1: hour of the day. Beautiful was the majority of the 235 00:12:34,036 --> 00:12:37,596 Speaker 1: basic tracks cut live as a band. Yeah, so everybody's 236 00:12:37,596 --> 00:12:40,276 Speaker 1: playing together about and people thought that, you know, we 237 00:12:40,276 --> 00:12:44,156 Speaker 1: were playing with a click track. Never did wow. Never. Wow. 238 00:12:44,356 --> 00:12:47,436 Speaker 1: It's amazing just because again because of the precision, they 239 00:12:47,516 --> 00:12:51,196 Speaker 1: almost sound inhuman, you know, like it's so perfect. It's 240 00:12:51,236 --> 00:12:55,516 Speaker 1: like it's just beyond perfect in how tight everything is 241 00:12:55,916 --> 00:12:58,796 Speaker 1: and the horns, you know, being that's another part of it, 242 00:12:58,836 --> 00:13:02,236 Speaker 1: is like the horns are so fast and tight and 243 00:13:03,316 --> 00:13:08,156 Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. It's just unbelievable to hear that kind of precision. Yeah, well, 244 00:13:08,196 --> 00:13:11,436 Speaker 1: you know, Maurice was a stickler for that. Maurice was like, uh, 245 00:13:12,036 --> 00:13:14,236 Speaker 1: you know, we think we worked hard, but nobody worked 246 00:13:14,236 --> 00:13:16,156 Speaker 1: as hard as Maurice. You know, he wrote it, he 247 00:13:16,276 --> 00:13:18,396 Speaker 1: produced it, he performed, and he was a hell of 248 00:13:18,396 --> 00:13:20,916 Speaker 1: a performer too, and a great drummer, which he does 249 00:13:20,916 --> 00:13:23,116 Speaker 1: in blot Up. The younger generation don't know how great 250 00:13:23,156 --> 00:13:25,636 Speaker 1: of a drummer he really was. He played on Rescue Me, 251 00:13:27,156 --> 00:13:31,116 Speaker 1: he played on Billy Stewart Summertime, This Maurice, you know, 252 00:13:31,516 --> 00:13:33,356 Speaker 1: and he played on those great records with Ramsey Lewis. 253 00:13:33,396 --> 00:13:35,756 Speaker 1: So he had she had. He had a very extensive background. 254 00:13:35,796 --> 00:13:37,276 Speaker 1: By the time he got to Earth and Fire, he 255 00:13:37,356 --> 00:13:39,636 Speaker 1: knew who he was. You know, this was he had 256 00:13:39,676 --> 00:13:42,356 Speaker 1: no doubt who he was as a person and as 257 00:13:42,356 --> 00:13:44,796 Speaker 1: an artist. This was not like something he was, you know, 258 00:13:44,836 --> 00:13:46,556 Speaker 1: trying to find his way. He knew exactly what he 259 00:13:46,596 --> 00:13:48,596 Speaker 1: wanted and he dragged me along with him. So I'm 260 00:13:48,596 --> 00:13:52,036 Speaker 1: happy for that. You know, no, absolutely beautiful and that 261 00:13:52,116 --> 00:13:54,636 Speaker 1: you had a beautiful life getting to play music. It's 262 00:13:54,636 --> 00:13:58,956 Speaker 1: like what better, what better contribution can you make then 263 00:13:59,076 --> 00:14:03,836 Speaker 1: making something that enlivens you and the people that get 264 00:14:03,836 --> 00:14:06,236 Speaker 1: to share it. And with my older brother Idol what 265 00:14:06,636 --> 00:14:07,836 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, You know what I mean? 266 00:14:07,956 --> 00:14:10,396 Speaker 1: Sometimes when I do interview, you know, people said, Jenner, 267 00:14:10,396 --> 00:14:13,876 Speaker 1: what would the older Verdeen tell the younger Verdeen? And always, 268 00:14:13,916 --> 00:14:14,916 Speaker 1: you know, you know how they do, you know, they 269 00:14:14,916 --> 00:14:16,356 Speaker 1: get those questions, you know what I mean. You know 270 00:14:16,356 --> 00:14:18,196 Speaker 1: it's not you know, it's not a sprint but a 271 00:14:18,276 --> 00:14:21,716 Speaker 1: journey kind of thing. You know, right, I said that 272 00:14:21,716 --> 00:14:24,116 Speaker 1: didn't apply to me because I was the younger guy, 273 00:14:24,196 --> 00:14:26,476 Speaker 1: was already doing what he was doing. You thought about 274 00:14:26,916 --> 00:14:29,436 Speaker 1: and being with Maurice, you know, it kind of broke 275 00:14:29,436 --> 00:14:31,276 Speaker 1: a lot of rules being a young person too. You know, 276 00:14:31,596 --> 00:14:33,636 Speaker 1: let me know that I could do it, and you know, 277 00:14:33,676 --> 00:14:36,276 Speaker 1: if you stay on it, this is what you're gonna do. 278 00:14:36,676 --> 00:14:39,636 Speaker 1: Hard being in a group with so many people. Yeah, 279 00:14:39,676 --> 00:14:41,796 Speaker 1: but you know, we got a lot of love of 280 00:14:41,836 --> 00:14:43,716 Speaker 1: respect for each other, you know, And don't forget now, 281 00:14:44,116 --> 00:14:46,236 Speaker 1: you know. You know Philip Ralph myself, you know, we 282 00:14:46,316 --> 00:14:49,996 Speaker 1: became adults together, so you know, that's a different point 283 00:14:49,996 --> 00:14:52,156 Speaker 1: of view. You know, what year to Philip join? Do 284 00:14:52,156 --> 00:14:57,356 Speaker 1: you remember, like seventy see from seventy one? Yeah, really 285 00:14:57,716 --> 00:15:02,116 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't realize that for almost fifty five years. Wow. 286 00:15:02,276 --> 00:15:04,476 Speaker 1: And what happened when the first Earth and the fire 287 00:15:04,516 --> 00:15:07,636 Speaker 1: broke up and on the Warner brothers, Philip used to 288 00:15:07,716 --> 00:15:09,956 Speaker 1: come and hang out and I I spent the afternoon 289 00:15:09,956 --> 00:15:12,436 Speaker 1: with them, you know, and we got along so well. 290 00:15:12,516 --> 00:15:15,316 Speaker 1: But I had saw him play in Denver with the band, 291 00:15:15,556 --> 00:15:17,436 Speaker 1: but he had moved to California and then he spent 292 00:15:17,436 --> 00:15:19,076 Speaker 1: the whole afternoon and it was just so great that 293 00:15:19,196 --> 00:15:21,916 Speaker 1: liked them so much, you know, And and I called 294 00:15:21,916 --> 00:15:24,796 Speaker 1: my mother, I said, so he even plays harmonica, you 295 00:15:24,836 --> 00:15:26,716 Speaker 1: know what I mean? And never saw anybody play harmonica, right, 296 00:15:27,076 --> 00:15:29,916 Speaker 1: And then when Reese was formulating and things like that, 297 00:15:29,916 --> 00:15:33,356 Speaker 1: that it was down to two other people, and Marie said, 298 00:15:33,356 --> 00:15:35,476 Speaker 1: who should we get? Said we should get Philip because 299 00:15:35,476 --> 00:15:37,756 Speaker 1: that's because he's a really good guy, you know what 300 00:15:37,796 --> 00:15:39,636 Speaker 1: I mean, the spirit of it, you know what I mean. 301 00:15:39,956 --> 00:15:42,156 Speaker 1: And it would only take a good person to go 302 00:15:42,196 --> 00:15:44,556 Speaker 1: to journey that we ended up going. You know. In 303 00:15:44,636 --> 00:15:47,876 Speaker 1: the last week, I had a conversation with two different artists, 304 00:15:47,916 --> 00:15:51,156 Speaker 1: one with Farrell and one with Q Tip, two great 305 00:15:51,276 --> 00:15:55,556 Speaker 1: artists referenced this week Earthwinn and Fire being the reason 306 00:15:55,636 --> 00:15:57,996 Speaker 1: they make music again again. It's just like it's it's 307 00:15:58,036 --> 00:16:02,836 Speaker 1: beautiful to see it from different people, different ages, in 308 00:16:02,916 --> 00:16:07,556 Speaker 1: different genres, how inspirational it was and continues to be. 309 00:16:07,716 --> 00:16:11,076 Speaker 1: It's just it's beautiful, beautiful to be part of something 310 00:16:11,316 --> 00:16:16,756 Speaker 1: so that has informed people's lives in such an important way. Yeah, yeah, 311 00:16:16,756 --> 00:16:19,676 Speaker 1: I think what's going on with this this uh, with 312 00:16:19,716 --> 00:16:22,076 Speaker 1: the quarantine that we all are in, and it's a 313 00:16:22,116 --> 00:16:24,836 Speaker 1: collective experience that we're all having. You know, as we know, 314 00:16:25,476 --> 00:16:29,676 Speaker 1: people are going back you know to really great works, 315 00:16:29,716 --> 00:16:31,836 Speaker 1: great books, they're going back to great movies, they're going 316 00:16:31,836 --> 00:16:34,236 Speaker 1: back to great records. And I think, of course our 317 00:16:34,276 --> 00:16:36,356 Speaker 1: work is part of what they want to go back to, 318 00:16:36,556 --> 00:16:38,436 Speaker 1: you know, and that and their ears are actually open 319 00:16:38,516 --> 00:16:42,156 Speaker 1: more now they're having the opportunity to listen better. You know, 320 00:16:42,196 --> 00:16:44,516 Speaker 1: we've had in the great society and the politics right 321 00:16:44,516 --> 00:16:46,796 Speaker 1: and things like that. We're headed for a great awakening. 322 00:16:46,836 --> 00:16:49,476 Speaker 1: I would call this next phase the great awakening for us. 323 00:16:50,036 --> 00:16:52,796 Speaker 1: We'll be back with Rick Rubin and Verding White after 324 00:16:52,836 --> 00:17:00,396 Speaker 1: the break. We're back with more from Verding White of Earth, 325 00:17:00,396 --> 00:17:04,236 Speaker 1: Winn and Fire. Tell me about Charles Stepney. What was 326 00:17:04,356 --> 00:17:08,316 Speaker 1: his involvement as producer? What did he do, because you know, 327 00:17:08,356 --> 00:17:11,876 Speaker 1: producers do differ things. Tell me about him and his 328 00:17:11,956 --> 00:17:14,716 Speaker 1: involvement in the process. Well, Charles, first of all, was 329 00:17:14,716 --> 00:17:17,596 Speaker 1: a great friend of Maurice's and they worked together at 330 00:17:17,636 --> 00:17:21,156 Speaker 1: Chess Records. And then Charles had done a lot of 331 00:17:21,196 --> 00:17:25,676 Speaker 1: arrangements for Ramsey Lewis with Maurice, and Charles was the 332 00:17:25,716 --> 00:17:28,116 Speaker 1: one that brought Many Riverton on the scene. You know, 333 00:17:28,476 --> 00:17:31,356 Speaker 1: The first album was called Come to My Garden, which 334 00:17:31,436 --> 00:17:34,316 Speaker 1: was a great, great, great great record, and they just 335 00:17:34,356 --> 00:17:38,116 Speaker 1: stayed in touch. And then Charles had done the Last 336 00:17:38,156 --> 00:17:41,276 Speaker 1: Days and Times record for us, the first record we 337 00:17:41,316 --> 00:17:43,836 Speaker 1: did for Clive Davis on Columbia Records. Charles did that. 338 00:17:44,356 --> 00:17:46,316 Speaker 1: Then Charles came back again and worked with us on 339 00:17:46,516 --> 00:17:48,636 Speaker 1: Open Our Eyes That's the Way of the World, the 340 00:17:48,676 --> 00:17:52,116 Speaker 1: breakthrough record for us and the Spirit Record, which he 341 00:17:52,156 --> 00:17:54,916 Speaker 1: passed away on the Spirit Record. And Charles was our 342 00:17:55,636 --> 00:17:59,196 Speaker 1: father figure, big brother. He was the one that Maurice 343 00:17:59,196 --> 00:18:01,636 Speaker 1: would listen to the most. Charles will said, we're gonna 344 00:18:01,636 --> 00:18:03,716 Speaker 1: do it like this, and Reese would do it. And 345 00:18:03,836 --> 00:18:06,556 Speaker 1: Charles was great for myself and Philip and all of us, 346 00:18:06,716 --> 00:18:09,916 Speaker 1: all of us together, and he was actually took our 347 00:18:09,956 --> 00:18:12,836 Speaker 1: George Martin, even though you guys are from Chicago, you 348 00:18:12,876 --> 00:18:16,116 Speaker 1: consider yourself a Chicago bandy. You can side yourself California band. 349 00:18:17,036 --> 00:18:19,836 Speaker 1: I say California now, you know, because I became an 350 00:18:19,836 --> 00:18:22,436 Speaker 1: adult here. You know. We came from Chicago, which brought 351 00:18:22,476 --> 00:18:26,076 Speaker 1: a certain sensibility, you know to it, you know, yeah, 352 00:18:26,236 --> 00:18:28,836 Speaker 1: and a good foundation, you know, because I came from 353 00:18:28,836 --> 00:18:31,236 Speaker 1: a good family background. My mom and dad. My dad 354 00:18:31,316 --> 00:18:33,516 Speaker 1: was a doctor, my mom was a school teacher, and 355 00:18:33,516 --> 00:18:34,836 Speaker 1: we had a lot of music around the house. So 356 00:18:34,876 --> 00:18:37,036 Speaker 1: that was good. That's what I brought to California. And 357 00:18:37,076 --> 00:18:39,396 Speaker 1: then when I got with Maurice, you know what I mean, 358 00:18:39,476 --> 00:18:41,636 Speaker 1: you know, working with him closely and living with him, 359 00:18:41,676 --> 00:18:43,996 Speaker 1: I had a chance to figure out where he was 360 00:18:43,996 --> 00:18:45,636 Speaker 1: coming from. And he would talk to me about music 361 00:18:45,676 --> 00:18:48,876 Speaker 1: a lot, you know, and so that so and then 362 00:18:48,916 --> 00:18:52,076 Speaker 1: we became Californians. He did too, you know what I mean, 363 00:18:52,076 --> 00:18:54,356 Speaker 1: because we got into yoga, we got into meditation, we 364 00:18:54,396 --> 00:18:57,116 Speaker 1: got into eating good, we got into you know, uh, 365 00:18:57,596 --> 00:18:59,996 Speaker 1: going to seminars at the booty Tree, you know, things 366 00:19:00,036 --> 00:19:01,356 Speaker 1: like that, you know what I mean. So we became 367 00:19:01,396 --> 00:19:05,996 Speaker 1: actually California, you know, the Californias started eating yogurt. So yeah, 368 00:19:06,156 --> 00:19:11,196 Speaker 1: how how important was the spiritual aspect in addition to 369 00:19:11,236 --> 00:19:13,516 Speaker 1: the music? Like what Riese was sort of always open, 370 00:19:13,596 --> 00:19:15,196 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You know, he was always open, 371 00:19:15,276 --> 00:19:17,236 Speaker 1: you know, and it was always loose. It was never 372 00:19:17,316 --> 00:19:19,156 Speaker 1: like heavy. It was not like a dogma, you know 373 00:19:19,196 --> 00:19:21,876 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. It was loose. We didn't get 374 00:19:21,876 --> 00:19:24,396 Speaker 1: in each other's way spiritually, things like that. It was 375 00:19:24,436 --> 00:19:26,516 Speaker 1: just a progression, you know what I mean. And then 376 00:19:26,676 --> 00:19:28,636 Speaker 1: you know, we adopted you know a lot of the 377 00:19:28,676 --> 00:19:31,916 Speaker 1: California stuff, which was actually kind of natural. Of course 378 00:19:31,916 --> 00:19:33,516 Speaker 1: we didn't do that. You couldn't do that in Chicago. 379 00:19:33,516 --> 00:19:35,436 Speaker 1: That would be too weird, lighting incense, you know it be. 380 00:19:35,836 --> 00:19:39,196 Speaker 1: And but it was we got into the California thing, 381 00:19:39,396 --> 00:19:42,556 Speaker 1: you know, which was wide open. I don't think we 382 00:19:42,636 --> 00:19:45,076 Speaker 1: ever would have made it as big had we not 383 00:19:45,156 --> 00:19:48,356 Speaker 1: come to California. It opened your mind to new things 384 00:19:48,396 --> 00:19:52,156 Speaker 1: being in California, you think, right, and new creativity because 385 00:19:52,156 --> 00:19:54,396 Speaker 1: don't forget now this is where everybody came you know, 386 00:19:54,476 --> 00:19:56,236 Speaker 1: this is where everybody's still. This is where eybody is 387 00:19:56,236 --> 00:19:58,396 Speaker 1: coming back to now, you know what I mean, because 388 00:19:58,436 --> 00:20:02,796 Speaker 1: of the just the openness of thought, of possibilities. You know, 389 00:20:03,276 --> 00:20:05,516 Speaker 1: there was You came from a musical household. Tell me 390 00:20:05,556 --> 00:20:07,756 Speaker 1: about the actual music that would be playing in the house. 391 00:20:07,756 --> 00:20:10,436 Speaker 1: What do you remember, first member as a kid, what 392 00:20:10,716 --> 00:20:13,556 Speaker 1: might be playing in the house. Anything. It was nine 393 00:20:13,596 --> 00:20:15,796 Speaker 1: of us, so it was noisy. So you get it. 394 00:20:15,836 --> 00:20:19,676 Speaker 1: You get in where you fit in. And so in 395 00:20:19,716 --> 00:20:21,916 Speaker 1: one room, my sister would be listening to the radio 396 00:20:21,956 --> 00:20:25,436 Speaker 1: station w v O M of Chicago, she used to 397 00:20:25,436 --> 00:20:28,796 Speaker 1: listen to Pervous band The Blues Man. My dad would 398 00:20:28,836 --> 00:20:31,836 Speaker 1: be listening to Maheley Jackson because he loved Mahley Jackson, 399 00:20:31,876 --> 00:20:34,996 Speaker 1: you know, things like that. My mom loved Little Roles, 400 00:20:35,156 --> 00:20:38,796 Speaker 1: uh live at the Copa, you know. And then and 401 00:20:38,836 --> 00:20:41,516 Speaker 1: then me and my brother Monte and my brother Freddie. 402 00:20:41,556 --> 00:20:43,996 Speaker 1: You know, we thought we were cool. So we we 403 00:20:43,996 --> 00:20:46,756 Speaker 1: would be listening to you know, you know, Miles Davis 404 00:20:46,796 --> 00:20:51,036 Speaker 1: four and More and uh and Miles in the Sky. 405 00:20:51,316 --> 00:20:53,516 Speaker 1: We love that record. You know, we were teenagers. So 406 00:20:53,556 --> 00:20:55,676 Speaker 1: if you if you didn't, if you told people you 407 00:20:55,676 --> 00:20:57,516 Speaker 1: listened to Miles Davis, you were cool even if you 408 00:20:57,516 --> 00:21:00,836 Speaker 1: didn't listen to it. The fact that you're doing so. 409 00:21:00,876 --> 00:21:03,356 Speaker 1: We so we were. We were the hip guys. We 410 00:21:03,436 --> 00:21:05,956 Speaker 1: wanted to be. We were cool lighting incense in our bedroom. 411 00:21:05,996 --> 00:21:08,876 Speaker 1: So that's kind of like what was going on. And uh, 412 00:21:09,156 --> 00:21:11,596 Speaker 1: my baby sisters were just babies at the time. But 413 00:21:12,476 --> 00:21:14,436 Speaker 1: but it was it was a lot of hot, very 414 00:21:14,476 --> 00:21:19,316 Speaker 1: free farm household, very free form. Was never uh it 415 00:21:19,356 --> 00:21:21,236 Speaker 1: was not that strict. It was actually for that era, 416 00:21:21,276 --> 00:21:23,436 Speaker 1: it was quite loose, you know what I mean. You know, 417 00:21:23,796 --> 00:21:25,756 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't like spankings I'm gonna get you 418 00:21:25,796 --> 00:21:27,996 Speaker 1: when I'm spankings, you know, things like that. You know. 419 00:21:28,676 --> 00:21:33,036 Speaker 1: Also interesting for the how eclectic the band was. To 420 00:21:33,076 --> 00:21:35,036 Speaker 1: grow up in an eclectic household makes sense. It's like, 421 00:21:35,076 --> 00:21:38,356 Speaker 1: it makes sense because it was never Earthwind and Fire 422 00:21:38,476 --> 00:21:41,636 Speaker 1: was never one thing. You know, it always felt bigger 423 00:21:41,676 --> 00:21:45,516 Speaker 1: than one thing. We may talk about funk being a backbone, 424 00:21:45,796 --> 00:21:48,596 Speaker 1: but it was not just that at all. Were so 425 00:21:48,636 --> 00:21:51,156 Speaker 1: many funk bands were just that. I would have to 426 00:21:51,156 --> 00:21:52,636 Speaker 1: say a lot of those funk bands, A lot of 427 00:21:52,636 --> 00:21:55,876 Speaker 1: those guys grew up together, you know, probably buddies in 428 00:21:55,876 --> 00:21:58,356 Speaker 1: schools and things like that. But in our in our world, 429 00:21:58,396 --> 00:22:01,156 Speaker 1: you know, Maurice was the leader, so he had traveled 430 00:22:01,796 --> 00:22:03,516 Speaker 1: around the hole. We hadn't been anywhere. So a lot 431 00:22:03,556 --> 00:22:05,996 Speaker 1: of the things that he knew he turned us on 432 00:22:06,076 --> 00:22:07,996 Speaker 1: to him. You mean, so he turned us on a 433 00:22:08,036 --> 00:22:10,436 Speaker 1: lot of different philosophy that he was into and things 434 00:22:10,436 --> 00:22:12,716 Speaker 1: like that. We went to Egypt, you know what I mean, 435 00:22:12,836 --> 00:22:15,716 Speaker 1: And recent I went to Egypt and Israel and things 436 00:22:15,756 --> 00:22:17,636 Speaker 1: like that. So you know, he was a world guy. 437 00:22:17,796 --> 00:22:19,836 Speaker 1: You know, he was a very different type of person, 438 00:22:19,916 --> 00:22:22,076 Speaker 1: you know. And and then don't forget now, you know, 439 00:22:22,476 --> 00:22:26,796 Speaker 1: Fire was formulated. He formulated it in the in the sixties, 440 00:22:27,276 --> 00:22:31,756 Speaker 1: which was at the first wave of cosmic consciousness. Obviously, 441 00:22:31,756 --> 00:22:34,036 Speaker 1: you know things like that. It was like the precursor 442 00:22:34,076 --> 00:22:36,436 Speaker 1: to what everybody now has a yoga bat now, And 443 00:22:36,436 --> 00:22:38,156 Speaker 1: now everybody has a yoga bat. They didn't used to. 444 00:22:38,516 --> 00:22:40,556 Speaker 1: They didn't they didn't you know, they didn't even know 445 00:22:40,556 --> 00:22:43,356 Speaker 1: what it was. Now everybody has what you know, I 446 00:22:43,436 --> 00:22:45,236 Speaker 1: was going to ask about you talking about Miles Davis, 447 00:22:45,276 --> 00:22:48,276 Speaker 1: So I's going to ask you about the influence of 448 00:22:48,476 --> 00:22:52,196 Speaker 1: jazz in the band, right, How did jazz work itself 449 00:22:52,356 --> 00:22:55,276 Speaker 1: into or the fact that that you guys listened to 450 00:22:55,356 --> 00:23:00,116 Speaker 1: jazz growing up, did that influence Earth Winning Fire? Well, 451 00:23:00,156 --> 00:23:03,276 Speaker 1: you know, Maurice was the ultimate jazzer of the band, 452 00:23:03,316 --> 00:23:07,476 Speaker 1: you know, and uh and Charles Stepney played jazz too, 453 00:23:08,116 --> 00:23:09,876 Speaker 1: great jazz, So it was really good for us to 454 00:23:09,956 --> 00:23:13,556 Speaker 1: kind of turn us on and Philip and myself and 455 00:23:13,676 --> 00:23:17,596 Speaker 1: Ralph and and uh, we rouse a really big jazz 456 00:23:17,636 --> 00:23:21,436 Speaker 1: are really excellent, you know about the history of jazz. Really, 457 00:23:21,556 --> 00:23:23,436 Speaker 1: he's really the expert in the band of jazz. And 458 00:23:23,436 --> 00:23:25,956 Speaker 1: Philip is too, and uh and what was great about 459 00:23:25,956 --> 00:23:28,676 Speaker 1: it for me being around Maurice but then I had 460 00:23:28,676 --> 00:23:30,156 Speaker 1: a chance to hang out with a Philip a lot. 461 00:23:30,716 --> 00:23:33,956 Speaker 1: He would play me music and us being the same age, 462 00:23:33,996 --> 00:23:36,276 Speaker 1: you know, he could maybe explain it to me what 463 00:23:36,356 --> 00:23:38,596 Speaker 1: was going on, which Maurice just threw us in there. 464 00:23:38,996 --> 00:23:40,676 Speaker 1: You gotta jump in and fit in, you know, okay 465 00:23:40,676 --> 00:23:43,436 Speaker 1: because the music is taken off, and so I could say, hey, man, 466 00:23:43,476 --> 00:23:46,236 Speaker 1: so what did he just say? You know? So it 467 00:23:46,276 --> 00:23:47,636 Speaker 1: was it was good that I had a chance to 468 00:23:47,716 --> 00:23:50,316 Speaker 1: you know, grow in this band listening to jazz, you know, 469 00:23:50,476 --> 00:23:52,516 Speaker 1: because I sort of kind of caught the tip end 470 00:23:52,556 --> 00:23:56,636 Speaker 1: of jazz playing upright to bass guitar. So when you 471 00:23:56,636 --> 00:24:01,036 Speaker 1: were playing upright, did you learn playing jazz and classical? Yeah? 472 00:24:01,076 --> 00:24:03,516 Speaker 1: And it was good for technique. But then right right 473 00:24:03,716 --> 00:24:07,916 Speaker 1: at the doorstep was bass guitar, Fender bass that you 474 00:24:07,916 --> 00:24:12,156 Speaker 1: know that you guys like myself, and then Stanley Clark 475 00:24:12,316 --> 00:24:16,916 Speaker 1: and Marcus Miller, Nathan Eaves, uh, Michael Henderson. You know 476 00:24:16,996 --> 00:24:19,556 Speaker 1: that that wave started. So so that's when I kind 477 00:24:19,556 --> 00:24:22,156 Speaker 1: of like started when it kind of was like jazz 478 00:24:22,516 --> 00:24:26,676 Speaker 1: funk jazz pop influence. You know, did you ever have 479 00:24:26,676 --> 00:24:29,116 Speaker 1: an opportunity to play upright bass on any earth Wind 480 00:24:29,116 --> 00:24:32,396 Speaker 1: and Fire records. Only one. It was only one and 481 00:24:32,436 --> 00:24:34,396 Speaker 1: that and I did it on a on one of 482 00:24:34,396 --> 00:24:36,396 Speaker 1: our shows. I write a song when I did it 483 00:24:36,436 --> 00:24:38,676 Speaker 1: on that section. But I actually sounded better on bass 484 00:24:38,676 --> 00:24:41,076 Speaker 1: guitar really actually, you know what I mean. You know 485 00:24:41,196 --> 00:24:42,996 Speaker 1: it's I'm glad I played it because it was good 486 00:24:42,996 --> 00:24:47,036 Speaker 1: for technique. It fights back when I practice. Uh, the 487 00:24:47,116 --> 00:24:50,036 Speaker 1: practice is on upright, are horrible. The ones on bass 488 00:24:50,036 --> 00:24:53,676 Speaker 1: guitar fun. I took a lesson from Ron Carter and 489 00:24:54,076 --> 00:24:57,436 Speaker 1: Uh at his house and the and it was a 490 00:24:57,476 --> 00:24:59,316 Speaker 1: horrible lesson. He said, man, this this was not good. 491 00:24:59,836 --> 00:25:02,076 Speaker 1: And this is not good, just not good. I said, Serranti, 492 00:25:02,116 --> 00:25:04,196 Speaker 1: I said, I'm practicing. I said, but tonight you'll see 493 00:25:04,236 --> 00:25:06,116 Speaker 1: what I really do. You're done about it. So he 494 00:25:06,156 --> 00:25:08,156 Speaker 1: came to Matt at the Swift Garden and he thought 495 00:25:08,196 --> 00:25:10,036 Speaker 1: he was in the wrong. He thought of a basketball game. 496 00:25:10,076 --> 00:25:11,876 Speaker 1: There were so many people you're talking about, you know 497 00:25:11,916 --> 00:25:14,196 Speaker 1: what I mean? So I said, I said, Ronnie, this 498 00:25:14,236 --> 00:25:15,796 Speaker 1: is what I this is what I really do. You've 499 00:25:15,796 --> 00:25:17,676 Speaker 1: done about you know, But I said, I love to 500 00:25:17,716 --> 00:25:19,876 Speaker 1: practice anyway, and I wanted to have the opportunity of 501 00:25:19,956 --> 00:25:21,916 Speaker 1: hanging out with Ron Card and taking a lesson even 502 00:25:21,956 --> 00:25:25,556 Speaker 1: if it was horrible. So cool, so cool. So you've 503 00:25:25,636 --> 00:25:29,316 Speaker 1: you've gotten to make albums consistently since I guess first 504 00:25:29,316 --> 00:25:32,156 Speaker 1: album in nineteen seventy seventy one, is that about, right? Yes? 505 00:25:32,276 --> 00:25:36,236 Speaker 1: Seventy right those yea seventy seventy one right right, it's 506 00:25:36,276 --> 00:25:42,876 Speaker 1: like fifty years unbelievable. And the technology keeps changing, right, 507 00:25:43,116 --> 00:25:47,076 Speaker 1: popular music keeps changing. Tell me about your experience in 508 00:25:48,116 --> 00:25:53,196 Speaker 1: watching the changes and and reacting to the changes, either 509 00:25:53,276 --> 00:25:57,676 Speaker 1: by swinging with what's going on or by not, you know, 510 00:25:57,876 --> 00:26:00,236 Speaker 1: like just choosing, well, we're not this is what they're 511 00:26:00,236 --> 00:26:02,756 Speaker 1: doing now, we're just gonna do this instead. Talk to 512 00:26:02,756 --> 00:26:06,636 Speaker 1: me about just what you saw the changes in the 513 00:26:06,676 --> 00:26:10,676 Speaker 1: way music has been recorded. Let's say where we've watched 514 00:26:10,676 --> 00:26:14,236 Speaker 1: the changes you know, from four track, the eight track, right, 515 00:26:14,356 --> 00:26:16,876 Speaker 1: twenty four track, right, we went through that phase, right, 516 00:26:16,996 --> 00:26:20,156 Speaker 1: which we watched and we were part of that. Of 517 00:26:20,316 --> 00:26:25,876 Speaker 1: then we watched of course you know, CDs right, DVDs, 518 00:26:26,316 --> 00:26:28,436 Speaker 1: all of those things pro tools, you know what I mean. 519 00:26:28,516 --> 00:26:31,676 Speaker 1: So it's just part of just the evolution. And I 520 00:26:31,716 --> 00:26:34,676 Speaker 1: think that if you have a pretty much of a foundation, 521 00:26:35,476 --> 00:26:37,956 Speaker 1: you can swing with it, you know. I think if 522 00:26:37,956 --> 00:26:41,076 Speaker 1: you don't have a foundation, You run to the technology 523 00:26:41,156 --> 00:26:44,396 Speaker 1: without and forget the music. Yeah, you know we had 524 00:26:44,436 --> 00:26:47,116 Speaker 1: we had a strong musical background, so we could say, well, 525 00:26:47,116 --> 00:26:50,596 Speaker 1: how did this fit into our music? Beautiful? Let's talk 526 00:26:50,596 --> 00:26:53,356 Speaker 1: about James Brown for a minute. What was James Brown 527 00:26:53,396 --> 00:26:58,596 Speaker 1: an important figure musically? First? When the fire? Would you say? 528 00:26:59,156 --> 00:27:02,436 Speaker 1: Sort of like he wasn't like first as funky as 529 00:27:02,436 --> 00:27:04,476 Speaker 1: he was. And I know I'm going to get some pushback. 530 00:27:04,556 --> 00:27:06,436 Speaker 1: No, no no, no, it's fine. It's interesting. I really wanted 531 00:27:06,436 --> 00:27:10,796 Speaker 1: to understand the inspiration is a big part of how 532 00:27:10,796 --> 00:27:13,076 Speaker 1: we get where we're going. We still bring ourselves to it, 533 00:27:13,116 --> 00:27:16,996 Speaker 1: but it's interesting, like what's coming through that gets us 534 00:27:16,996 --> 00:27:19,236 Speaker 1: where we're going. What I loved about him was his 535 00:27:19,316 --> 00:27:23,356 Speaker 1: live performances. That's what I loved. That's the one, you know, 536 00:27:23,436 --> 00:27:25,556 Speaker 1: the one. If you wanted to see some James Brown stuff, 537 00:27:25,556 --> 00:27:28,676 Speaker 1: watch the Tammy Show. Yeah you know what I'm saying. 538 00:27:29,076 --> 00:27:32,196 Speaker 1: And somebody told me it took ninety minutes for those 539 00:27:32,196 --> 00:27:34,756 Speaker 1: girls to stop screaming after you guy, after he did 540 00:27:34,796 --> 00:27:36,516 Speaker 1: what he did, you know, you know what I mean. 541 00:27:36,916 --> 00:27:40,076 Speaker 1: And he was just one of them, you know, it 542 00:27:40,156 --> 00:27:42,476 Speaker 1: was James Brown, it was Miles babys. It was John 543 00:27:42,516 --> 00:27:44,916 Speaker 1: Coltrane for us, you know what I mean, and things 544 00:27:44,956 --> 00:27:47,676 Speaker 1: like that, you know, but also the Beatles and the 545 00:27:47,676 --> 00:27:50,356 Speaker 1: Beatles that those guys, I think what they did they 546 00:27:50,356 --> 00:27:53,076 Speaker 1: were sort of like I think they were the ones 547 00:27:53,116 --> 00:27:57,436 Speaker 1: that that busted the door wide open if you go 548 00:27:57,516 --> 00:28:01,156 Speaker 1: back and listen to like when they would mop tops 549 00:28:01,156 --> 00:28:02,596 Speaker 1: and I want to hold your hand and all the 550 00:28:02,596 --> 00:28:05,276 Speaker 1: way down the Abbey Road. The work they did was 551 00:28:05,316 --> 00:28:08,316 Speaker 1: really incredible and what they did was really good. What 552 00:28:08,556 --> 00:28:11,676 Speaker 1: the record that showed how hip there was was Rubber Soul. 553 00:28:11,876 --> 00:28:15,316 Speaker 1: That was the one. Rubber Soul was the record. And 554 00:28:16,516 --> 00:28:18,356 Speaker 1: it was almost like the joke was on us because 555 00:28:19,036 --> 00:28:21,316 Speaker 1: they knew so much about what they were doing, and 556 00:28:21,356 --> 00:28:24,276 Speaker 1: it just kept I mean different, different, different, and you 557 00:28:24,276 --> 00:28:26,356 Speaker 1: could and you could really think that Sergeant Prepper really 558 00:28:26,356 --> 00:28:28,716 Speaker 1: actually was the record of samples really when you really 559 00:28:28,716 --> 00:28:31,796 Speaker 1: look back at it, with the machine going backwards and 560 00:28:31,796 --> 00:28:34,316 Speaker 1: things like that. And then they had somebody like George 561 00:28:34,316 --> 00:28:36,876 Speaker 1: Martin to make musical sense of what was in their 562 00:28:36,876 --> 00:28:40,116 Speaker 1: ears but they were listening to. They did something in 563 00:28:40,116 --> 00:28:43,596 Speaker 1: one group that everybody has bitten off of, you know. 564 00:28:43,716 --> 00:28:46,116 Speaker 1: The first of all a group that got massively big 565 00:28:46,156 --> 00:28:51,196 Speaker 1: which everybody dreams about. Right, hit records, right, important records, right, 566 00:28:51,596 --> 00:28:56,276 Speaker 1: cultural icons forever right, spirituality with transldental meditation of mahaichi 567 00:28:56,316 --> 00:28:58,996 Speaker 1: ya yogi. Right. So they're like sort of like more 568 00:28:59,036 --> 00:29:01,156 Speaker 1: of a than a group, that's sort of like an entity. 569 00:29:01,476 --> 00:29:03,636 Speaker 1: That's how they look at their work. I think, I 570 00:29:03,676 --> 00:29:06,156 Speaker 1: think of the Beatles is proof of God. It's like that. 571 00:29:06,316 --> 00:29:08,116 Speaker 1: It's do you know, it's like it's too much, it's 572 00:29:08,116 --> 00:29:11,596 Speaker 1: too much. This is not this is not the work 573 00:29:11,756 --> 00:29:15,116 Speaker 1: of for boys from a little country town you know 574 00:29:15,836 --> 00:29:19,396 Speaker 1: in the north of England's right, it's much bigger than that. 575 00:29:20,036 --> 00:29:23,436 Speaker 1: It's much, it's much bigger. It really it changed the 576 00:29:23,436 --> 00:29:26,876 Speaker 1: world that everybody has bitten off of in one way 577 00:29:26,916 --> 00:29:28,876 Speaker 1: or another. You know, when I talk about Miles in 578 00:29:28,916 --> 00:29:31,916 Speaker 1: the Sky, that's when Miles started going towards the rock thing, 579 00:29:32,076 --> 00:29:33,836 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's when Miles got hit, 580 00:29:34,036 --> 00:29:36,356 Speaker 1: you know, in the sixties, you know, things like that, 581 00:29:36,436 --> 00:29:39,596 Speaker 1: and that's when a lot of music changed, you know, 582 00:29:39,636 --> 00:29:42,556 Speaker 1: because of the chord changes and the songwriting. You know, 583 00:29:42,676 --> 00:29:44,756 Speaker 1: that was the first time artists wrote their own songs 584 00:29:44,996 --> 00:29:48,796 Speaker 1: in a band. So great work by them, really great work. 585 00:29:48,836 --> 00:29:50,996 Speaker 1: They were the first ones that you know, did movies, 586 00:29:51,156 --> 00:29:54,636 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. So Actually another piece that makes sense 587 00:29:54,796 --> 00:29:57,716 Speaker 1: is if I think of if I compare Earthwind and 588 00:29:57,716 --> 00:30:01,476 Speaker 1: Fire to other funk bands, earth Wind and Fire always 589 00:30:01,636 --> 00:30:05,516 Speaker 1: had songs, where funk bands often had great grooves that 590 00:30:05,516 --> 00:30:10,236 Speaker 1: weren't necessarily songs. Right so, and same whole truth if 591 00:30:10,236 --> 00:30:12,836 Speaker 1: we look at James Brown versus the Beatles. James Brown 592 00:30:12,956 --> 00:30:15,716 Speaker 1: always had the groove, but it wasn't always about the song. 593 00:30:16,116 --> 00:30:18,636 Speaker 1: It might just be about the pocket. But the Beatles 594 00:30:18,676 --> 00:30:20,716 Speaker 1: had the songs. And don't forget number Race was a 595 00:30:20,796 --> 00:30:23,556 Speaker 1: song person before he got to Ramsey. He was a 596 00:30:25,036 --> 00:30:29,076 Speaker 1: session drummer, so he did commercials, so he did understand 597 00:30:29,156 --> 00:30:32,876 Speaker 1: probably the intro, the chorus, diverse, the hook, what is 598 00:30:32,876 --> 00:30:35,876 Speaker 1: it saying? You know? Actually we did the cover the 599 00:30:35,876 --> 00:30:38,196 Speaker 1: Beatles Got to Get You My Life in the Sargent 600 00:30:38,236 --> 00:30:41,636 Speaker 1: Pepper movie. And what happened was that George Martin had 601 00:30:41,676 --> 00:30:45,436 Speaker 1: had unch Maurice and myself about the movie, but he 602 00:30:45,476 --> 00:30:47,076 Speaker 1: didn't have time to work with us because he was 603 00:30:47,116 --> 00:30:50,516 Speaker 1: working with Aerosmith and the BGS and Billy Preston, you know, 604 00:30:50,916 --> 00:30:53,356 Speaker 1: and he said, why don't you guys just do your 605 00:30:53,396 --> 00:30:55,596 Speaker 1: own thing and that's what we did, and it was 606 00:30:55,636 --> 00:30:58,676 Speaker 1: the number. It was the biggest song on that movie, 607 00:30:59,156 --> 00:31:01,236 Speaker 1: Beautiful because the movie was it was a huge flock. 608 00:31:01,316 --> 00:31:02,676 Speaker 1: I mean, you know when you go back, people don't 609 00:31:02,676 --> 00:31:04,116 Speaker 1: know that now, but it was not as big as 610 00:31:04,116 --> 00:31:05,876 Speaker 1: they thought it was going to be. But we had 611 00:31:05,876 --> 00:31:08,316 Speaker 1: the record and we still play the song today. I 612 00:31:08,316 --> 00:31:09,996 Speaker 1: remember going to see in the theater as a kid. 613 00:31:10,316 --> 00:31:12,516 Speaker 1: I've may have been one of a few people in 614 00:31:12,516 --> 00:31:15,116 Speaker 1: that theater, but I was in the theater watching that. Yeah. 615 00:31:15,396 --> 00:31:17,916 Speaker 1: And we shot in Cobra City and we were in 616 00:31:17,956 --> 00:31:20,476 Speaker 1: the middle of we had just got back, had a 617 00:31:20,556 --> 00:31:23,436 Speaker 1: day off from one of our tours, and we had 618 00:31:23,476 --> 00:31:26,676 Speaker 1: to shoot everything, like, you know, in one day. You know, 619 00:31:26,716 --> 00:31:28,676 Speaker 1: that's how fast it was going. You know, Robert Stigwood, 620 00:31:28,716 --> 00:31:30,996 Speaker 1: you know, back back then, you know, more and more 621 00:31:30,996 --> 00:31:33,396 Speaker 1: and more, let's go, let's go, let's go. You know. Yeah. 622 00:31:33,596 --> 00:31:36,716 Speaker 1: Did you meet Stigwood? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, interesting character. 623 00:31:37,036 --> 00:31:39,036 Speaker 1: I've only heard about him. I've never met him. Yeah, 624 00:31:39,036 --> 00:31:40,516 Speaker 1: he was. He's very nice to us. You know, we 625 00:31:40,516 --> 00:31:42,556 Speaker 1: were kids at the time, so everybody was nice, you know. 626 00:31:42,956 --> 00:31:44,956 Speaker 1: And but what one of the significant thing is it 627 00:31:44,996 --> 00:31:50,036 Speaker 1: was Michael Schultz of the African American director. He was 628 00:31:50,036 --> 00:31:51,716 Speaker 1: one of the first to do a big budget movie. 629 00:31:51,756 --> 00:31:54,516 Speaker 1: That was a big budget movie, you know, but it 630 00:31:54,556 --> 00:31:56,156 Speaker 1: was a great time to be part of a movie 631 00:31:56,196 --> 00:31:59,156 Speaker 1: and and things like that. You know, we'll be back 632 00:31:59,196 --> 00:32:08,116 Speaker 1: with Rick Rubin and Verdine White after the break. We're 633 00:32:08,156 --> 00:32:10,276 Speaker 1: back with more from vert in White of Earth When 634 00:32:10,356 --> 00:32:13,476 Speaker 1: in Fire, just picturing the world that you were in then, 635 00:32:13,636 --> 00:32:17,156 Speaker 1: you know, right, did it feel different than the other 636 00:32:17,196 --> 00:32:18,956 Speaker 1: things that were going on? Could you tell that your 637 00:32:18,956 --> 00:32:22,796 Speaker 1: band was different? Well, when we definitely were in the 638 00:32:22,836 --> 00:32:24,556 Speaker 1: Earth when and Fire bubble, you know what I mean, 639 00:32:24,556 --> 00:32:26,556 Speaker 1: because don't forget now, we were doing something that had 640 00:32:26,596 --> 00:32:29,636 Speaker 1: never ever been done before, you know, you know, no 641 00:32:29,756 --> 00:32:33,116 Speaker 1: group had ever tried the things you know that we tried, 642 00:32:33,156 --> 00:32:35,516 Speaker 1: you know. And and at that time, you know, we 643 00:32:35,516 --> 00:32:37,476 Speaker 1: were getting ready to go to Columbia Records when Clive 644 00:32:37,796 --> 00:32:40,796 Speaker 1: was president of Columbia Records, and Clive gave was everything 645 00:32:40,796 --> 00:32:42,876 Speaker 1: we needed to do it, you know what I mean. 646 00:32:42,956 --> 00:32:44,956 Speaker 1: So we felt really secure, you know, and we knew 647 00:32:44,996 --> 00:32:46,996 Speaker 1: we could do it. We knew we were gonna do 648 00:32:47,116 --> 00:32:49,276 Speaker 1: really good if we just keep at it. We didn't 649 00:32:49,276 --> 00:32:51,756 Speaker 1: really know what was going on with everybody else actually 650 00:32:51,796 --> 00:32:54,276 Speaker 1: we knew, but we didn't, you know, we weren't part 651 00:32:54,316 --> 00:32:58,156 Speaker 1: of it, you know. And in today's world, if an 652 00:32:58,236 --> 00:33:01,796 Speaker 1: artist doesn't break really on their first project, they tend 653 00:33:01,836 --> 00:33:04,316 Speaker 1: to go away, and you guys got to really build 654 00:33:04,316 --> 00:33:07,676 Speaker 1: over a period of time. It was really was it 655 00:33:07,756 --> 00:33:09,876 Speaker 1: like the fourth or fifth album that really broke through. 656 00:33:10,196 --> 00:33:12,996 Speaker 1: It was the That's the Way the World record with 657 00:33:13,236 --> 00:33:16,476 Speaker 1: Shining Star on it, and that about about fifth would 658 00:33:16,476 --> 00:33:18,876 Speaker 1: you say that about fifth? Way we had last certain 659 00:33:18,916 --> 00:33:23,796 Speaker 1: times right head to the sky, open our eyes right then, 660 00:33:23,876 --> 00:33:26,476 Speaker 1: that's the way to what that was? What four right for? 661 00:33:26,836 --> 00:33:29,676 Speaker 1: So for those first three albums, you guys already had 662 00:33:29,676 --> 00:33:34,876 Speaker 1: been touring playing like clubs. We were playing not clubs 663 00:33:34,876 --> 00:33:38,636 Speaker 1: a lot, but stillent unions, you know, gymnasiums and and 664 00:33:39,236 --> 00:33:42,476 Speaker 1: on with like I said, groups like Ohio Players and Mandrel, 665 00:33:42,636 --> 00:33:45,676 Speaker 1: you know, those kind of things. And then the show 666 00:33:45,716 --> 00:33:48,436 Speaker 1: that broke us big was a show called Soul in 667 00:33:48,596 --> 00:33:52,596 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one seventy two out of New York City, 668 00:33:52,796 --> 00:33:56,436 Speaker 1: and they played the show about nineteen times. It was 669 00:33:56,436 --> 00:33:59,516 Speaker 1: a TV show, a television show called Soul. Wow, I'd 670 00:33:59,556 --> 00:34:02,116 Speaker 1: never heard of it, Yeah, right, it's an obscure show now, 671 00:34:02,156 --> 00:34:03,996 Speaker 1: but back it was a very important show. It was 672 00:34:04,156 --> 00:34:06,436 Speaker 1: before shoul trained. Not a lot of dancing, but it 673 00:34:06,476 --> 00:34:08,196 Speaker 1: was a show that had a lot of artists on it, 674 00:34:08,556 --> 00:34:10,556 Speaker 1: and it was show had politicians on it like Jesse 675 00:34:10,716 --> 00:34:13,756 Speaker 1: Jackson and the Last Poets right at that time, you know. 676 00:34:13,796 --> 00:34:16,356 Speaker 1: So we were kind of in that thing at that time. 677 00:34:16,636 --> 00:34:18,876 Speaker 1: That sounds great. I want to I'm gonna try to 678 00:34:18,916 --> 00:34:21,076 Speaker 1: find old episodes. I've never I've never even heard of 679 00:34:21,116 --> 00:34:22,876 Speaker 1: it before that time. Yeah. Man. Then and the show 680 00:34:22,916 --> 00:34:27,316 Speaker 1: opens up with Maurice playing Colombo. Wow, yeah, so cool. 681 00:34:27,916 --> 00:34:29,796 Speaker 1: You know. It was it was like, you know, an intro. 682 00:34:29,876 --> 00:34:31,996 Speaker 1: It was like brothers and sisters, you know what, we're here, 683 00:34:31,996 --> 00:34:34,436 Speaker 1: Earth and Fire and I the blah blah blah blah blah, right, 684 00:34:34,476 --> 00:34:38,916 Speaker 1: you know, and uh, and it was. It was eclectic show, 685 00:34:38,916 --> 00:34:40,836 Speaker 1: but it was very powerful show. And we fit right 686 00:34:40,876 --> 00:34:43,796 Speaker 1: in at that particular time, I understood. And that's really 687 00:34:43,836 --> 00:34:45,996 Speaker 1: what broke things open, you think. Yeah, you know. And 688 00:34:46,036 --> 00:34:47,676 Speaker 1: then we were playing a lot of colleges. We want 689 00:34:47,676 --> 00:34:50,436 Speaker 1: to road a lot. So those records were selling like, 690 00:34:50,516 --> 00:34:52,916 Speaker 1: you know, two to three hundred thousand and half a million, 691 00:34:52,956 --> 00:34:54,356 Speaker 1: so we were on our way that that's the way 692 00:34:54,356 --> 00:34:56,836 Speaker 1: of the world. It just didn't. It just wasn't a unicorn. 693 00:34:56,956 --> 00:34:59,036 Speaker 1: It came out of nowhere. It was a build up 694 00:34:59,076 --> 00:35:01,676 Speaker 1: to that. Did it feel like you were it was 695 00:35:01,716 --> 00:35:04,516 Speaker 1: a constant build or was it kind of a plateau 696 00:35:05,156 --> 00:35:08,356 Speaker 1: at a good level until it exploded? Now it was 697 00:35:08,396 --> 00:35:10,916 Speaker 1: a constant build. It just kept going, and we kept 698 00:35:11,276 --> 00:35:13,996 Speaker 1: healing it out and feeling it and it kept getting better. 699 00:35:14,996 --> 00:35:16,596 Speaker 1: But it wasn't like a thing like you oh man, 700 00:35:16,596 --> 00:35:18,196 Speaker 1: we got a big hit record. We just kept going, 701 00:35:18,236 --> 00:35:21,316 Speaker 1: you know. It was like we just kept growing, kept 702 00:35:21,556 --> 00:35:23,836 Speaker 1: you know, kept going. You know, so then when things 703 00:35:23,876 --> 00:35:26,516 Speaker 1: did explode, it seems like you'd be able to handle 704 00:35:26,556 --> 00:35:29,756 Speaker 1: it better based on doing all the work leading up 705 00:35:29,796 --> 00:35:31,916 Speaker 1: to it. You know, some artists, when good things happened 706 00:35:31,996 --> 00:35:36,036 Speaker 1: really fast, they kind of flame out. Right. It was 707 00:35:36,036 --> 00:35:38,116 Speaker 1: a little overwhelming, you know, because it was big. You know, 708 00:35:38,156 --> 00:35:39,956 Speaker 1: when it gets big, it kind of bounces back off 709 00:35:39,996 --> 00:35:42,236 Speaker 1: of you, you know. But we were I think the 710 00:35:42,236 --> 00:35:45,036 Speaker 1: fact that we had done records before, you know, we 711 00:35:45,076 --> 00:35:48,356 Speaker 1: had enough. We had enough with ourselves not to like 712 00:35:48,756 --> 00:35:51,676 Speaker 1: go crazy crazy cool. Do you remember the first experience 713 00:35:51,716 --> 00:35:55,076 Speaker 1: of thinking, Wow, this is really getting big. Yeah, I mean, 714 00:35:55,116 --> 00:35:58,276 Speaker 1: for me. It was like when I heard That's the 715 00:35:58,316 --> 00:36:00,876 Speaker 1: way of the World. You know, we recorded it Cariboo 716 00:36:00,916 --> 00:36:03,356 Speaker 1: Ranch back and then remember Cariboo you know Jim Vercio's 717 00:36:03,356 --> 00:36:06,876 Speaker 1: plays right and uh. And after Maurice mixed the record 718 00:36:06,876 --> 00:36:09,116 Speaker 1: and edited and everything, he let me hear the record. 719 00:36:09,556 --> 00:36:12,036 Speaker 1: I said, man, goose pimples. It was like, I mean, 720 00:36:12,276 --> 00:36:15,796 Speaker 1: is that us right? You know? Is that us? Is it? Like? 721 00:36:15,996 --> 00:36:18,876 Speaker 1: Is it that? Is it that good? And and actually 722 00:36:18,916 --> 00:36:21,156 Speaker 1: it was great for Maurice because after step had passed, 723 00:36:21,436 --> 00:36:23,436 Speaker 1: Maurice had to take over, you know, as a producer, 724 00:36:23,916 --> 00:36:25,516 Speaker 1: so you know, so he had to you know, he 725 00:36:25,516 --> 00:36:26,996 Speaker 1: had to wear like three or four hats, you know 726 00:36:26,996 --> 00:36:29,276 Speaker 1: what I'm done about. And one of the things that 727 00:36:29,676 --> 00:36:32,596 Speaker 1: I'd have to say, nobody who ever played drums came 728 00:36:32,636 --> 00:36:34,796 Speaker 1: off the drums and ever did what Maurice end up 729 00:36:34,836 --> 00:36:38,236 Speaker 1: doing and and became an icon and became a you know, 730 00:36:38,316 --> 00:36:40,956 Speaker 1: musical leader and things like that, and helped the industry too. 731 00:36:40,996 --> 00:36:42,636 Speaker 1: If it hadn't been from Maurice, that would never would 732 00:36:42,636 --> 00:36:45,716 Speaker 1: have been African Americans doing concerts. And and we actually 733 00:36:45,756 --> 00:36:48,316 Speaker 1: had to keep up with him, you know, you know, 734 00:36:48,356 --> 00:36:50,236 Speaker 1: he was just one of those rare people that really 735 00:36:50,316 --> 00:36:54,076 Speaker 1: kind of knew exactly what he wanted. Even in the 736 00:36:54,116 --> 00:36:56,156 Speaker 1: beginning of those records that we did, they were not hits. 737 00:36:56,396 --> 00:36:58,276 Speaker 1: The genesis of the sound was there, you know, you 738 00:36:58,316 --> 00:37:00,396 Speaker 1: could still you can still hear it. You know it 739 00:37:00,436 --> 00:37:02,716 Speaker 1: was there, you know, the foundation of the sound. You know, 740 00:37:03,316 --> 00:37:07,716 Speaker 1: the transition from playing in gymnasiums to what was the 741 00:37:07,756 --> 00:37:12,796 Speaker 1: next step after gymnasium as things got bigger, theaters than arenas, 742 00:37:13,796 --> 00:37:21,196 Speaker 1: than stadiums, and so when we play theaters and arenas 743 00:37:21,236 --> 00:37:24,716 Speaker 1: and stadiums now there for different reasons, Like we did 744 00:37:24,796 --> 00:37:27,476 Speaker 1: the Classics with the Eagles and everybody a couple of 745 00:37:27,516 --> 00:37:29,556 Speaker 1: years ago, so that was great, a lot of fun. 746 00:37:30,076 --> 00:37:32,756 Speaker 1: A lot of that audience probably had never seen us before, 747 00:37:32,916 --> 00:37:36,236 Speaker 1: you know, on the stage with the Eagles. The arenas 748 00:37:36,316 --> 00:37:39,396 Speaker 1: are are good because they put our big production in there, 749 00:37:39,436 --> 00:37:41,436 Speaker 1: you know, so a lot of the people can see 750 00:37:41,516 --> 00:37:44,596 Speaker 1: us on the big screens. Theaters are great because we 751 00:37:44,636 --> 00:37:46,676 Speaker 1: get a chance to play longer, and we can play 752 00:37:47,116 --> 00:37:49,436 Speaker 1: songs from some of the jazzy things in the theater 753 00:37:49,476 --> 00:37:51,956 Speaker 1: because it fits the environment. You know. It's like if 754 00:37:51,956 --> 00:37:54,796 Speaker 1: you're gonna watch, you know, a great movie, it's better 755 00:37:54,796 --> 00:37:57,196 Speaker 1: in the theater. Absolutely. I call it like in the theater, 756 00:37:57,196 --> 00:37:59,516 Speaker 1: it's great. A lot of ghosts in those theaters, you know. Yeah, 757 00:38:00,036 --> 00:38:02,076 Speaker 1: I think I think you can hear the music better 758 00:38:02,076 --> 00:38:03,916 Speaker 1: in the theater than in arena as well. It's just 759 00:38:03,956 --> 00:38:07,676 Speaker 1: like it's a more musical experience. Yeah. Well, that arena 760 00:38:07,716 --> 00:38:10,036 Speaker 1: stuff is all show business. Yeah, you know, it's some 761 00:38:10,156 --> 00:38:11,916 Speaker 1: show business. You know. It's big. That means you're big, 762 00:38:11,956 --> 00:38:14,556 Speaker 1: and that means the box office is great. That means 763 00:38:14,556 --> 00:38:17,316 Speaker 1: you're successful, and it means you're hot. You know, that's 764 00:38:17,316 --> 00:38:20,636 Speaker 1: what you know. You know, that means you're happening. Yeah, 765 00:38:20,796 --> 00:38:24,396 Speaker 1: as much fun playing big show, small show, just playing 766 00:38:24,476 --> 00:38:26,916 Speaker 1: And do you know it when you're in it? Or 767 00:38:27,676 --> 00:38:29,676 Speaker 1: does the music kind of take over in a way 768 00:38:29,716 --> 00:38:33,436 Speaker 1: where once the show starts you could be anywhere? Yeah? 769 00:38:33,476 --> 00:38:35,436 Speaker 1: Well I think for us now, we all know each 770 00:38:35,476 --> 00:38:38,876 Speaker 1: other so well, we kind of know what that thing is, 771 00:38:39,316 --> 00:38:42,116 Speaker 1: you know. We know, Okay, it's an arena, so we 772 00:38:42,236 --> 00:38:44,276 Speaker 1: got to strap in and find out where the space 773 00:38:44,436 --> 00:38:47,796 Speaker 1: is so to feel good. It's like greatest hits. It's 774 00:38:47,836 --> 00:38:51,716 Speaker 1: greatest hits, yeah yeah, and it's it's star time. Yeah, yeah, 775 00:38:51,916 --> 00:38:54,036 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And when you do a stadium, 776 00:38:54,276 --> 00:38:56,756 Speaker 1: it's like you're on the moon. They can't catch you. You 777 00:38:56,676 --> 00:38:58,476 Speaker 1: You know how people say, so what you guys play 778 00:38:58,556 --> 00:39:01,196 Speaker 1: that tonight Dodger Stadium and people don't say anything to 779 00:39:01,236 --> 00:39:03,796 Speaker 1: you because it's bigger than them, you know. Yeah, And 780 00:39:04,196 --> 00:39:07,276 Speaker 1: in place like Dodger Stadium, it's more like it's the event. 781 00:39:07,996 --> 00:39:10,516 Speaker 1: You get to say you were there, but it's rarely 782 00:39:10,556 --> 00:39:14,396 Speaker 1: about like the intricacies of the performance because you're too 783 00:39:14,436 --> 00:39:17,076 Speaker 1: far away and the sound just dissipates. But if you 784 00:39:17,156 --> 00:39:19,956 Speaker 1: find a space, you can really nail them, like you know, 785 00:39:19,996 --> 00:39:22,076 Speaker 1: we found at Arena space. And then when Philip at 786 00:39:22,116 --> 00:39:23,756 Speaker 1: the end told audience, wave your hands in the air, 787 00:39:23,836 --> 00:39:26,756 Speaker 1: we had sixty thousand people waving their hands in the air. 788 00:39:27,276 --> 00:39:30,036 Speaker 1: And because what's great about social media and things like that, 789 00:39:30,116 --> 00:39:32,596 Speaker 1: they get a chance to tell their friend what they 790 00:39:32,636 --> 00:39:35,836 Speaker 1: just saw. Whereas before in the seventies, if you did it, 791 00:39:35,956 --> 00:39:38,476 Speaker 1: nobody knew except the people that came. Yeah, so now 792 00:39:38,476 --> 00:39:42,036 Speaker 1: word spreads. And when you talk about playing, like doing 793 00:39:42,076 --> 00:39:46,356 Speaker 1: shows with bands like the Eagles, in this recent round, 794 00:39:46,956 --> 00:39:50,316 Speaker 1: that probably was more like in the very early days, 795 00:39:50,716 --> 00:39:53,916 Speaker 1: you probably got to play with bands much more, a 796 00:39:53,996 --> 00:39:57,436 Speaker 1: much more eclectic group of bands like I think, didn't 797 00:39:57,436 --> 00:39:59,996 Speaker 1: you guys played with like The Loving Spoonful and right 798 00:40:00,036 --> 00:40:03,436 Speaker 1: we opened up for John Sebastian. Remember John was in 799 00:40:03,436 --> 00:40:07,796 Speaker 1: The Loving Spoonful. Yes, and John let us do a 800 00:40:07,876 --> 00:40:11,476 Speaker 1: tour with him, credible and we played Lincoln Center with him, 801 00:40:11,756 --> 00:40:14,916 Speaker 1: and Clive Davis came to see John. Yeah, but he 802 00:40:14,956 --> 00:40:16,596 Speaker 1: came to see He saw us and said, listen, I 803 00:40:16,796 --> 00:40:18,556 Speaker 1: like those guys. I want to get together with those guys. 804 00:40:18,556 --> 00:40:20,716 Speaker 1: That's how that happened. And to this day John and 805 00:40:20,756 --> 00:40:23,956 Speaker 1: I are great friends. Just wonderful person, just really great, 806 00:40:24,116 --> 00:40:27,756 Speaker 1: just really good. Always sweetheart, always sweetheart, you know beautiful. 807 00:40:28,676 --> 00:40:31,596 Speaker 1: Tell me about signing with Clive and he said that 808 00:40:31,636 --> 00:40:33,356 Speaker 1: he gave you what you needed to do, you needed 809 00:40:33,396 --> 00:40:36,716 Speaker 1: to do, right. It just sounds like it really worked out. 810 00:40:36,836 --> 00:40:39,956 Speaker 1: Your experience with Warner Brothers before that wasn't it didn't 811 00:40:39,996 --> 00:40:42,876 Speaker 1: work as well. But how was the relationship with the people, Well, 812 00:40:42,916 --> 00:40:45,436 Speaker 1: what warners At the time, Joe Smith was at the 813 00:40:45,516 --> 00:40:50,196 Speaker 1: running the label. Joe was you know, Moe was there, 814 00:40:50,236 --> 00:40:53,396 Speaker 1: but Mo was actually doing reprise, you know, you know, 815 00:40:53,436 --> 00:40:56,356 Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra's label, and that's when Moe came later, you know, 816 00:40:56,716 --> 00:41:01,396 Speaker 1: but we only did two records for Joe. And then 817 00:41:01,676 --> 00:41:04,916 Speaker 1: Clive had heard about us. But Warners they weren't really ready. 818 00:41:04,996 --> 00:41:06,836 Speaker 1: They weren't really ready for a group of color, you 819 00:41:06,876 --> 00:41:08,756 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And Joe was cool. We got 820 00:41:08,756 --> 00:41:09,956 Speaker 1: out of there, you know what I mean. And then 821 00:41:09,996 --> 00:41:13,556 Speaker 1: Clive saw us, you know, Clive bought the contract from Warners. 822 00:41:13,636 --> 00:41:16,476 Speaker 1: But Clive, you know, he was you know, running CBS records, 823 00:41:16,516 --> 00:41:18,676 Speaker 1: and CBS Records was on fire, you know what I mean, 824 00:41:18,716 --> 00:41:22,036 Speaker 1: you sliding the family stone. You had all those great groups, 825 00:41:22,076 --> 00:41:23,716 Speaker 1: you know what I mean that that Clive had, you 826 00:41:23,716 --> 00:41:25,876 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And and he was the one 827 00:41:25,916 --> 00:41:27,836 Speaker 1: that opened up that door for us, brought us to 828 00:41:27,836 --> 00:41:29,916 Speaker 1: the groves in the house, you know, in London, so 829 00:41:29,996 --> 00:41:32,436 Speaker 1: everybody could take a look at us. And it was expensive, 830 00:41:32,476 --> 00:41:34,996 Speaker 1: so really earthly. The fire was like the great American 831 00:41:35,076 --> 00:41:38,116 Speaker 1: experiment that worked because it hadn't happened. Don't forget now, 832 00:41:38,156 --> 00:41:40,356 Speaker 1: the only game in town was Motown right when you 833 00:41:40,396 --> 00:41:42,636 Speaker 1: look at it, you know, for where the African Americans 834 00:41:42,636 --> 00:41:45,996 Speaker 1: could go to be successful at that nature, to be 835 00:41:46,036 --> 00:41:48,756 Speaker 1: that big hadn't happened yet. It hadn't happened yet. What 836 00:41:48,796 --> 00:41:51,276 Speaker 1: we did hadn't happened. You know. So after we happened, 837 00:41:51,276 --> 00:41:53,316 Speaker 1: then that's when you saw Funkadelas. That's when you saw 838 00:41:53,356 --> 00:41:56,476 Speaker 1: Bootsy Collins, That's when you saw probably James Brown was 839 00:41:56,476 --> 00:41:59,236 Speaker 1: the only one in the sixties that got big. But 840 00:41:59,476 --> 00:42:01,156 Speaker 1: he was by himself though he was the only game 841 00:42:01,196 --> 00:42:03,516 Speaker 1: in town. And as we said, it wasn't it wasn't 842 00:42:03,556 --> 00:42:06,396 Speaker 1: based on in my opinion, it wasn't based on the songs. 843 00:42:06,756 --> 00:42:09,676 Speaker 1: It was just based on he had the sound nobody 844 00:42:09,716 --> 00:42:12,036 Speaker 1: had at that time, that's right. And then he was 845 00:42:12,116 --> 00:42:14,116 Speaker 1: so great live that when they put him on a 846 00:42:14,156 --> 00:42:18,316 Speaker 1: Tammy show and Ed Sullivan lights out. So after you 847 00:42:18,356 --> 00:42:20,476 Speaker 1: know that, when we came along, it was a whole 848 00:42:20,476 --> 00:42:23,516 Speaker 1: different generation of artists. And then don't forget now, African 849 00:42:23,556 --> 00:42:25,916 Speaker 1: American radio had gotten big, you know what I mean, 850 00:42:26,076 --> 00:42:28,916 Speaker 1: went from AM to FM stereo. So ye had great 851 00:42:28,956 --> 00:42:31,036 Speaker 1: disc jockey's planned records, like you know the late Frankie 852 00:42:31,036 --> 00:42:34,316 Speaker 1: Crocker that was breaking all those great records. But in 853 00:42:34,356 --> 00:42:37,836 Speaker 1: different genres though, absolutely, But you guys played. You guys 854 00:42:37,876 --> 00:42:40,916 Speaker 1: played on all radio. Wasn't just urban radio. You guys 855 00:42:40,956 --> 00:42:43,076 Speaker 1: played on everything. I mean, right, I heard you on 856 00:42:43,196 --> 00:42:45,996 Speaker 1: every station. But Clive was always great and even to 857 00:42:46,156 --> 00:42:49,356 Speaker 1: this day, we always get a big hug from Clive. 858 00:42:49,436 --> 00:42:52,076 Speaker 1: We've done this his you know, the Clide Party all 859 00:42:52,396 --> 00:42:55,236 Speaker 1: a lot, and we've done his documentaries and things like that, 860 00:42:56,036 --> 00:42:58,716 Speaker 1: but always always would be for Evan debt it because 861 00:42:58,756 --> 00:43:01,236 Speaker 1: he gave us the big break that opened the door 862 00:43:01,276 --> 00:43:05,276 Speaker 1: for us that stayed open. He's historically known for having 863 00:43:05,316 --> 00:43:08,116 Speaker 1: a lot to say about songs. Would he get involved 864 00:43:08,156 --> 00:43:10,676 Speaker 1: in that way or would he just be supportive at 865 00:43:10,716 --> 00:43:12,676 Speaker 1: that time? Of supportive, I think when he went to Rasta, 866 00:43:12,796 --> 00:43:14,876 Speaker 1: that's when he got into it, you know, because Clumbia 867 00:43:14,996 --> 00:43:18,636 Speaker 1: was Clumbie was. It was so big, you know, it 868 00:43:18,716 --> 00:43:22,636 Speaker 1: was so monolithic, you know, big, big, big corporation. But 869 00:43:22,716 --> 00:43:24,436 Speaker 1: he was there for us anyway, you know what I mean, 870 00:43:24,916 --> 00:43:26,556 Speaker 1: whatever we want to do, we could do it. And 871 00:43:26,956 --> 00:43:28,956 Speaker 1: Claude love Maurice, so you know it was it was 872 00:43:29,836 --> 00:43:32,796 Speaker 1: he always trusted Reese, beautiful. Tell me a little bit 873 00:43:32,836 --> 00:43:36,316 Speaker 1: about your music listening habits now. I listened to everything. 874 00:43:36,836 --> 00:43:38,596 Speaker 1: Sometimes I go back to the past to see if 875 00:43:38,636 --> 00:43:40,316 Speaker 1: I still liked it when I liked it before, to 876 00:43:40,396 --> 00:43:43,476 Speaker 1: see if my years on one point I'm having a 877 00:43:43,556 --> 00:43:45,796 Speaker 1: chance to like really do some nice work. You know. 878 00:43:45,916 --> 00:43:47,356 Speaker 1: Of course, we will do an Earth on the Fire 879 00:43:47,396 --> 00:43:49,996 Speaker 1: album at some point. But recently I've had a chance 880 00:43:50,036 --> 00:43:53,076 Speaker 1: to work with my drummer, John Paris from the band 881 00:43:53,356 --> 00:43:57,916 Speaker 1: and Neil Pole. Great engineer, great producer, great writer. He 882 00:43:57,956 --> 00:44:00,196 Speaker 1: just got nominated for two Grammys. So we get a 883 00:44:00,236 --> 00:44:02,916 Speaker 1: chance to talk about music, chop it up, work on tracks. 884 00:44:03,396 --> 00:44:05,276 Speaker 1: You know, it keeps me active and things like that, 885 00:44:05,436 --> 00:44:08,716 Speaker 1: and I still practice. I still you know what I 886 00:44:08,716 --> 00:44:10,956 Speaker 1: like about the quarantine Actually, it's really you know, it's 887 00:44:10,996 --> 00:44:12,276 Speaker 1: been kind of cool because I've had a chance to 888 00:44:12,316 --> 00:44:15,156 Speaker 1: really be creative, you know, absolutely, you know, with no 889 00:44:15,276 --> 00:44:17,836 Speaker 1: judgment on it, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Have 890 00:44:17,916 --> 00:44:20,316 Speaker 1: you ever played on anyone else's records? Oh yeah, I 891 00:44:20,316 --> 00:44:25,196 Speaker 1: did a flow rider DJ Cassidy, a lot of yeah, man, 892 00:44:25,276 --> 00:44:26,996 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. And then what happens is when 893 00:44:27,036 --> 00:44:31,196 Speaker 1: I work with other people, the session is like three hours, 894 00:44:31,756 --> 00:44:33,956 Speaker 1: but they they asked me questions in the terms of 895 00:44:33,956 --> 00:44:38,556 Speaker 1: eleven hours. And what I saw for Rell about a 896 00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:41,756 Speaker 1: year ago, he was humming to me. When people meet me, 897 00:44:41,796 --> 00:44:45,596 Speaker 1: they hummed the songs he was humming, uh running, you know, 898 00:44:45,916 --> 00:44:48,156 Speaker 1: they hummed the songs. So it might start out as 899 00:44:48,196 --> 00:44:51,116 Speaker 1: a two hour session, but they want to know everything, 900 00:44:51,316 --> 00:44:53,516 Speaker 1: what was going on, what was you know, they want 901 00:44:53,556 --> 00:44:56,636 Speaker 1: to know what the world was like. Yeah, you know, 902 00:44:56,716 --> 00:44:59,836 Speaker 1: they want to know what it what it smelled like, 903 00:45:00,356 --> 00:45:03,516 Speaker 1: you know what it sounded like. So when I do sessions, 904 00:45:03,516 --> 00:45:05,476 Speaker 1: they're like eleven hours, not because we're playing. They just 905 00:45:05,476 --> 00:45:08,556 Speaker 1: want to you know, they you know what I'm saying 906 00:45:09,276 --> 00:45:12,156 Speaker 1: so funny. And then and then now I'm getting adopted now, 907 00:45:12,236 --> 00:45:14,236 Speaker 1: so if I work with an artist, you know, they said, 908 00:45:14,356 --> 00:45:16,876 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna make you my uncle, you 909 00:45:16,916 --> 00:45:21,396 Speaker 1: know what I mean? You know, and they said anything 910 00:45:21,436 --> 00:45:23,316 Speaker 1: I can bring you, you know what I I mean? Could 911 00:45:23,316 --> 00:45:25,236 Speaker 1: you want some coffee? You know? And but they want 912 00:45:25,236 --> 00:45:27,116 Speaker 1: to know, which I think is really great, you know 913 00:45:27,156 --> 00:45:30,516 Speaker 1: what I mean that obviously they they respect you enough 914 00:45:30,516 --> 00:45:33,076 Speaker 1: to want to know what happened. I worked with llokoj 915 00:45:33,636 --> 00:45:36,316 Speaker 1: and uh and you know, he's great, big muscles and everything. 916 00:45:36,356 --> 00:45:38,556 Speaker 1: He did the introduction for us at the Kennedy Center 917 00:45:38,596 --> 00:45:40,636 Speaker 1: Honors and he said, gentle man, I had a post 918 00:45:40,756 --> 00:45:45,116 Speaker 1: all y'all stuff, mad about my bedroom. And I'm saying, wow, 919 00:45:45,276 --> 00:45:47,436 Speaker 1: you're talking about And then and then I said, listen, 920 00:45:47,436 --> 00:45:52,716 Speaker 1: I gotta take a picture because I need some street cred. Amazing. 921 00:45:53,076 --> 00:45:54,956 Speaker 1: Thank you for talking to me about music and about 922 00:45:54,956 --> 00:45:59,036 Speaker 1: your life, and thank you for making the world a 923 00:45:59,036 --> 00:46:01,996 Speaker 1: better place. Thank you man, and thank you for letting 924 00:46:02,036 --> 00:46:05,076 Speaker 1: me on your show. Already a pleasure, sir, Love you. 925 00:46:08,436 --> 00:46:10,316 Speaker 1: Thanks to Verdie and White for bringing us into his 926 00:46:10,356 --> 00:46:13,196 Speaker 1: inner Earthwin and Fire circle. You can hear all of 927 00:46:13,236 --> 00:46:15,676 Speaker 1: our favorite Earthwin and Fire songs on our playlist at 928 00:46:15,676 --> 00:46:18,956 Speaker 1: broken Record podcast dot com, and be sure to subscribe 929 00:46:18,956 --> 00:46:21,716 Speaker 1: to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken 930 00:46:21,756 --> 00:46:24,636 Speaker 1: Record Podcast, where you can find extended cuts of new 931 00:46:24,676 --> 00:46:28,516 Speaker 1: and old episodes. Also follow us on Twitter at broken Record. 932 00:46:29,076 --> 00:46:32,156 Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, 933 00:46:32,396 --> 00:46:37,236 Speaker 1: Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from 934 00:46:37,276 --> 00:46:41,036 Speaker 1: Nick Chafee, and it's executive produced by me LaBelle We're 935 00:46:41,036 --> 00:46:43,756 Speaker 1: a production of Pushkin Industries and if you like Broken Record, 936 00:46:43,836 --> 00:46:46,836 Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast. 937 00:46:47,076 --> 00:46:50,196 Speaker 1: Our theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond Bass