WEBVTT - Marc Geiger 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.160 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:16.200 My guest today is Mark Garger, formally head of Music 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.040 of w m E. All Around Music Here Mark, good 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:25.000 to have hi, Bob Okay. Drive in concerts gimmick, A 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:29.000 real gimmick. Tell me a little bit more. Why is 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:36.120 it a gimmick? Do I have to? I mean, um, 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.639 why is it a gimmick? Capacity is very small by 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:44.080 the time you actually put the cars in. Um pricing 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:50.840 with a disconnected experience is high. The audio I don't 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.600 think it can be very good yet in the car, 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:59.040 but hey, um, these are temporary stockcapt solutions. So for me, economically, 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.120 they're scale garth. That a very interesting thing, basically the 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.080 pay per view right to other drive ins. I think 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.880 there's a feeling that what I called during the what 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.240 I call the germophobia economy, that almost anything will sell 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:14.160 because they're saying it is dying to get out of 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:18.240 the house. So for me, it's not really a great experience. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:23.280 Well that begs the question, uh, when the economics are broken, 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.360 so let's you know, let's get real. People are doing 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:27.800 things to do them, not to make a living, right, 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:32.240 So when do you think concerts returned. My guess is 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.479 late twenty one, more likely twenty two. I think that 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:39.520 this is going to be Look, the whole thing is 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.160 a ship show. You write about it, everybody knows whether 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:46.360 it's testing organ as a government that let's not. It's 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.920 too infinite of a well to go down. But in 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.360 my humble opinion, it's gonna be twenty two. It's gonna 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:57.040 take that long for what I call the germophobia economy 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:00.120 to be slowly killed off and be replaced by what 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.600 I call the claustrophobia economy, which is it really wants 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:04.000 to get out and go back to dinner and have 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:06.520 their life and go to festivals, go to shows. And 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.040 my instinct is that's just going to take a while 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:14.760 because as you can see, these super spreader events, sports shows, 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:21.360 anything classroom ain't gonna do too well. And while the 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.160 while the viruses this present. So my my instinct is 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:29.120 the world has a very long forced time out. A 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.760 lot of people see the positives in it, um, whether 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:37.200 it's climate, whether it's pollution, whether it's traffic, whether it's nature, 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.480 whether it's animals, whether it's our own beings, and taking 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:44.440 a pause, um, and I know it's frustrating, maddening and 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:53.000 um economically you know, destructive, but ah, you know this 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.560 is bigger than us. And if you study history, things 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.240 like this have happened in history and been super disruptive 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.560 to normal society. So here's a biggie for our lifetime. 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:04.520 Let's go drill down for those people are not experts 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:09.040 like you, to what degree is insurance and liability of 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:14.720 factor and restarting? Well, there is no insurance against COVID 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:19.680 currently offered, and even normal insurance policies are pretty scarce 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:21.400 and hard to come by. The insurers are sitting on 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.200 the sideline because there's infinite liability. I don't know what's 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.160 tested not tested. Luss Hey, I got COVID at this event, 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.959 how do you approve it? Etcetera. I think the biggest 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.840 companies can maybe self insure UM and they can start. 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.839 Everybody else has to wait till the insure industry feels good. 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.480 So that's one of many many roadblocks in the way 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:46.640 of restarting this vibrant economy that got put down right. 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:49.880 So there's probably twenty of them when you drill into 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.839 why can't you the virus and the illness being one, 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.720 you know, all the spacing. The density insurance is a 0:03:55.760 --> 0:04:00.839 biggie and I don't know when that comes back either. Now, 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:05.080 needless to say you're no longer with wm ME, but uh, 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.880 certainly there's no live business. Mean, there's no income for 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:13.400 agents and agencies they work for. What we've learned over 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.200 the past week is a lot of these touring entities 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.120 got money, The Eagles got money for the road business, 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:24.080 ETCETERA question I'm asking is to what degree will sitting 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:28.360 on the sidelines for two years affect the economics of 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.400 the industry. Can these companies survived? Michael Rapino says he 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:33.680 can borrow money, there's no not an issue. But being 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.800 in the heart of an agency, can these agencies and 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:43.479 these other support elements survived two years off? Look um, 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:47.680 no matter what anybody says, it's economically devastating, Okay, So 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:53.279 I recognize that, and I don't think any excuse um 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.359 can be made. And there will be a huge amount 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.440 if I'm right on the timetable right, there's gonna be 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:01.680 a massive amount of blood shed and ankruptcies and it 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.080 will not be good for the majority industry. I think 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.480 Michael or Pino is right. You know, he's he's big, 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:11.000 he is great backing, people want to buy his stock, um, 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:15.880 he's got liberty, he has a great business. When it 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.440 comes back, so you can borrow against that and it's 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.719 not a great outcome. But your question is can they survive? 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.560 I think people who have access to really good financing 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.600 credit facilities can definitely survive. Right, I know, the costs 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.400 of carrying over some of these businesses agencies are actually 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.160 relatively cheap. Michael Orpine has got a much bigger issue 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.160 and a much bigger staff. The biggest agencies are again 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:43.040 the cheapest relative word. Right. But if something's gonna cost 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.080 fifty or a hundred million dollars to bridge for a 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:51.320 moment um, again, that sounds huge. But in today's world, 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.640 when you have access to capital, you can borrow against 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.040 that for a year or two, and the businesses were 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.400 quite profitable and they can pay down the debt service. 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:02.400 It's a short term mortgage, okay. And when it does 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:08.960 come back, how does the landscape change? Sure billion dollar question? 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.960 I mean, I guess, let me be specific. I think, Bob, 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.520 that's a really tough question to answer. I think if 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.320 the if we're in the second or third inning of 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:23.640 the ball game of destruction. UM, I don't know what 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.040 the game looks like at the end. I think the 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.839 next six months maybe more painful than the last batch, 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.120 and maybe the next six months after that might be 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.120 even more so. So I think one of the things 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.440 that happened for me after leaving was, UM, I was 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.200 able to look at the pandemic two ways. I was 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.400 overseeing or part of a team of industry people who oversee, 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:52.719 oversaw this destruction, this cancelation, postponement, etcetera, etcetera, tried to 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.840 have order out of it, but was sort of trapped 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.600 in that viewpoint. Um, now I get to look at 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.200 COVID is a bit of an opportunity. But the question 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.040 of where to exactly look and who's not gonna make 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:08.000 it and who's going to be under distress. You start 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.960 bottom up, small people with no access to capital, people 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.480 have high overheads, people who have staff that they can't 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.640 easily go into shutdown mode and they're gonna get the 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.000 viscerated and they're gonna need help. So in any event, 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.560 recapping here, Mark, you said, Uh, when we look at 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.680 the future, we're talking from the bottom up. People at 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.480 the bottom or squeeze for capital please continue. I think 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:35.320 that again, people with infrastructure and more overhead and lack 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:40.120 of access to capital, it's a perfect storm for them. Um. 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.640 When you start talking about the big companies of Live Nation, 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:48.000 eight g CTS, Ossessa and others, they have access to 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:53.920 facilities and credit and debt facilities. They're public companies. The investors. 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.600 A lot of investors look at them as value because 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.880 they think, oh, when the claustrophobia economy kicks in and 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:05.920 world restarts, everybody's gonna want to we participate in. These 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.360 companies will be in a good position to take advantage 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:12.040 of it. So I believe that is going to rule 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:16.320 the day and people will make smart investments into business 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:17.960 as they think they'll come back. But the bigger the 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.760 better there if you're small, if you're medium sized, it's 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.640 going to be tricky. If you know, like NIVA, the 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.640 organization who represents is a trade organization for the clubs 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.920 is trying to appeal to the government for money for 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.920 obviously a loan or a grant to the clubs. So 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.360 I think at the end of the day, Um, the 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.360 economic devastation is going to be bigger than people think 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.640 they Reshaping is going to be bigger than people think, 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.360 and we all have to watch and conserve our capital 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.440 and just take a pause and try obviously not spend 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:53.000 just to get to the other side. I know that 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.720 sounds very basic, but I think it's true. Question becomes 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:58.880 when we come out the other side, do the big 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.640 get bigger? It depends how they act. They can. I 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.760 mean they have to get small. Larder worries is overhead. 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:10.000 But you know, people with real access to capital. Again, 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.080 if you think about it, like a bigger version of 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.080 two thousand eight in the real estate crash, if you 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.599 owned a bunch of office buildings or apartment buildings or 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.160 hotels or houses and you had to sell them, or 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.120 you had a cash crunch, you were screwed, right, you 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.560 were on the bad side. If you were a real 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.160 estate funder private equity a hundred billion in cash or 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:32.040 ten billion in cash, and you waited till all the 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.040 foreclosures showed up on your street, which we all saw 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:39.120 and you could swoop in. It was an unprecedented opportunity. 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.080 Um certain banks and others made a fortune during that time. 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:45.120 So I think it's how you look at the world 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.840 and if you have access to capital. But I do. 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:49.960 I do think there'll be a lot of different owners 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.120 uh and people who have equity in the music business 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.559 infrastructure when you come out of this, well, liberty is 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.520 capped in terms of how much they can own of 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.520 Live name. But if you look historically in two thousand 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.559 and eight, uh, they invested in Serious and ended up 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:10.760 with control of that company. So staying on this same tip, 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.800 we grew up in the pre internet era where you 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.079 were a band, you started in clubs, you worked your 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:21.760 way up, and in addition, the record company supported the clubs. 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:30.320 Let's talk about what that was like prior to this crisis. Um, okay, 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.920 which part to you omans? The question is is that 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.480 paradigm broken? It's more important than ever. I think that 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:41.720 there's just because the world switched to streaming and there's 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:45.320 a different distribution system. Artist developments not that different. You 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.480 have more tools, all right, You have more connectivity, you 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:52.079 have more ability to be globally, use multiple platforms to 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:55.200 communicate with your audience, and your music can get distributed better. 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:57.000 You're not held out of a record store. But the 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.080 development process the same the touring press. Yeah, but it 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:01.680 But but as I say, if we go back to 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.600 the club are critical, they're more They're more packed today 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:07.920 than they were back in our club era by a lot. 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:12.680 But are there as many Yeah, there's more, many more clubs. 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:18.280 Music has infinitely more genres than the period you're talking about, 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.839 a right, popular genres. Kids have much more access kids, 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.680 everybody has much more access to music, and so music 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.120 is thriving. Um. You know, you can argue long tail, 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.960 but from a genre standpoint, you have much more access. 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:36.520 They're much deeper. I mean, the electronic nightclubs alone outnumbered 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:40.160 the amount of rock clubs than in total when we 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:46.079 were growing up. So I think it's a um and globally, um, 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:50.199 there's a ton more. So I think the supplies up 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:54.480 and the demand is up. Um, which ones last, how 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.760 they get transformed, that's all a big question. But yeah, 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.720 I think the development process is healthier than ever and 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.120 bigger than ever. And by the way, the upside is 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.280 bigger than ever. It's just there's more noise. It's a 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.199 signal noise, right, there's there's how many new releases, remember 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.959 what was back in the era you're talking about. There 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.959 is only x amount of music that could come out 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.720 that's dwarfed in a week Okay, let's let's go to 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:23.320 this specific issue. Hey, when you're working at William Morris, 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:28.120 would you sign an act, Let's assume the right act 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:32.360 had no record recording representation of any significance. Would you 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:37.840 sign an act that did not have a live head? Uh, 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:42.360 you know, could not sell tickets by themselves already, So 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.200 how would you break an act like that? Okay? You 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.920 breaking an act would imply that we were that powerful. 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.640 You know, we're just team member, subcontractor on the team 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:54.400 of building a house. That's the way I look at 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:58.560 it all right, from any position. So part of it 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:00.679 is how well is the team and the work together. 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:02.920 How great is the manager obviously? How great is the artist? 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:07.840 How greatest in music? Um, Listen, when you sign an artist, 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.319 if you really love them and you believe in them, 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.800 it's not about breaking them in a record. It's about 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.240 laying a base so they grow, they happen to break, 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:20.880 they break. The industry wants. It's you know, immediacy, and 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.199 it's stadium this and so and so that, and it's 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.760 pop metaphor. I typically, you know, my taste is outside 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.440 pop metaphor. So you don't have a choice. You're five 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:34.000 ten years to grow and break artists over time, especially 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.280 depending on how they how they record, and how frequently. 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:39.920 So part of it is packed tour packaging. Part of 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.000 it is festivals, part of his getting great publicist. Part 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.280 of it is calling favors if you can to whoever 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.360 it might be that can promote stream etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.280 If you have that kind of leverage and and hope 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.600 that others are making the same calls. From our standpoint 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.000 when you were on the agency and by the way, 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:58.719 you work well with the manager and the manager had 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.600 how how's their social media? How are they on? Are 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.000 they are they frequent posters? Are they infrequent posters? Is it? 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.000 Are they creating content more frequently than the other There's 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.040 a lot of What changed was the ability to post 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.320 content in different places and different types. So if you 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.320 were not an artist that generates a lot of content, 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.000 you were a significant disadvantage in the digital area. If 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:22.960 you're somebody who could post a lot of content, assuming 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.120 you didn't turn into a commodity, you had a big advantage. 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.600 So you know, it's all different, and you have to 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:34.560 look at every artist, genre, level of interest, critical acclaim, uh, 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.640 all of it and create a custom strategy, just like 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:42.040 you know a good UM tutor or teacher does for 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:46.600 a student. Their all individuals, so part of his can 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:48.920 you get other artists to love them and recognize what 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.040 you love about him and and champion them. There's a 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:56.640 lady I signed before before I left, called Jensen McCrae, 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.760 and she is my favorite. She's Joni Mitchell meets Tracy Chapman, 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.680 and I think she's absolutely spectacular. A couple of songs 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.520 on Spotify, the albums should be Best New Album, Best 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:09.880 Artist on the Grammys. Um, she's a social media monster 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:14.720 and she's hyper genius. So she's very different than some 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.120 of the other people who don't post. They're not political, 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.960 they're not trying to build an audience that way, and 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.400 her music is more viral than others. So I think 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.520 there's a lot to all of this, and it's very 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.800 custom and there is no one. What we have now 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.560 as an open system like technology where everything getting an 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.720 app can be made for any platform because there are 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.560 open systems. Now leave Apple out of this for a minute. UM, 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:39.800 generally open systems. I think music is the same, and 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.400 so people who create more content know how to communicate 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:44.840 with their audience to do a little better. But that 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.040 was part of the job, was giving them opportunities, getting 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.400 the right slot on Coachella, lallapaos at this festival, that festival, 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.480 this opening slot, this so and so, this right night. 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.920 It's all of it. And if you do it all right, 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:02.400 you know, people think you do but that's okay. So, 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.120 speaking of the signal to noise, it also applies on 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.320 the agency level. There are more people making music, more 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.840 people looking for your time and your abilities to work 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:16.440 with them too. How does someone reach you or w 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.600 when you worked at or an agent at W M 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:22.040 E or do they have to be involved with someone 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:27.560 who knows you because there's just too much product? You know, 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.800 it's an interesting thing. First of all, everybody's reachable because 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.240 I'm pretty easy to get too, as there are most 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.800 people out there if you try, if you don't know 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.320 anybody and don't can't figure an email address or to 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:44.280 post or what to do. I understand that, but I 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.960 do think when you look at things that are income 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:48.560 and you have a lower hit rate than when you 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.080 look at things when you're proactive, so let's call them reactive. 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:55.480 I get twenty million artists coming at whether it's Wan 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.680 in the old you know, in my past, or any 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:06.119 other agency or any other label, or I'm trolling blogs, criticalist, 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.320 all music Guide, Consequences, sounds, stereogum, whatever it might be. 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.920 Other filters that I trust, and I proactively go after 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.760 the records, all right, or the the artists. That's the 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:25.560 difference between success rate and a ten percent success rate. 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.520 So a lot of times you don't want the incoming, 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.760 even though that story sounds good. Hey, somebody got to me, 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:38.120 they were fantastic, whatever, And I think that the bottom 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:44.440 line is to try to prioritize your trusted filters over 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.840 just incoming noise. Would be how I'd answered that question, 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:53.040 so I didn't care that much about that. It's kind 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.600 of like you, by the way, you're the one who writes, hey, 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:57.639 if you pitch me on a record, I'll never play it, 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.000 and then I have to read every way every three 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.639 letters and some random rant on a record you discovered, 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.080 and you wouldn't write it. If I told you to 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:10.040 listen to it, you wouldn't, absolutely, man, But there's so 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:14.080 much incoming. It affects the business so on so many levels. 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:16.560 Since you were in a different vertical than I am. 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.040 That's why I asked question. You know what the truth is, 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:21.160 we had to process more than you did. You could 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:22.639 be more selective because of what you did. We had 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.159 to process hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.399 artists and try and make intelligent decisions whoever you are 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:33.440 in any business thousands and what can I say? You 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.280 try to make you try to narrow down your decisions 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:41.960 over time and get more fine in your filtering. Well generally, 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.240 you know, I would say this is ninety nine percent. 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:49.560 I don't respond to email from people I do not 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:54.040 know unless they're famous, because ten percent of the public 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.359 is literally insane and you don't know what ten percent 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.560 it is. Have you had that issue where there are 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.440 people who relentless and coose problem for you to get 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:07.520 rid of what? Yes, but that's a few people. You know, 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:09.320 you didn't lose my music. You don't know what are 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:14.879 you're talking about it? So you get judged on ultimately, 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.080 get judged on the artists you work with, not the 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.600 failed attempts and the who wanted to get into the 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.439 party and you didn't sign them. It's did you find 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.560 were you able to identify good artists. Could you grow 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:29.119 them and develop them? Did others on your team do 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:31.280 the same? Could you be collaborative? Could you figure out 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.000 more intelligent filtering systems? Could you figure out more intelligent 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.240 marketing promotion systems or whatever it is or artists development 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.639 systems in our case, So you know that's what it is. 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.280 By the way, Debra Newman Hart South Side did a 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.640 great one and it was great for New Jersey. They're 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.520 just one off. But even though they're successful. Sorry, I'm 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.639 reading the chat high kids. Okay. Now, in the old days, 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.840 pre internet days, the developing act would essentially borrow money 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.520 from the record company to stay alive until hopefully they broke. 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:01.800 How do you how do you do it today if 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.720 there's no record company involvement. Well, here's the good news. 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.320 In the old days you needed a record company. Today 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.280 you don't, right, I mean you know that you write 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:12.840 about it all the time, of course. Okay, So there's now. 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:14.879 In the old days, there were two ways to get 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:19.840 on the freeway, right, record company or you had to 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.520 be allowed INDI right, and even the indies developed over time, 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.680 but they had them right back on the pop days. 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:27.240 You can a VJ. You could have this, you could 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.560 have that Concorde rounder, subpop, etcetera. And not it or 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:33.560 is There are many many of them. Those were your 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.280 two on ramps and the rest of the time you 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:39.400 were kind in the demo in Nowadays, there are multiple 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.640 platforms for all the way up to Spotify and artist 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:46.040 program from sound that that that, and you can break 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:51.199 on TikTok or something all right, so you have options 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:55.720 didn't happen before. You also have scale options, global scale options. 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.840 You also have CRM see rum technical term for identifying 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:02.359 your audience and figuring out how to keep them right 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.680 and keep them interested. And that is what record companies 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:11.520 tried to do without the actual communication directly with an individual. 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.000 So you can be a record company and there's a 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:19.440 billion indies. So the options are dramatically different. It's back 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.000 to how great is your art? How does it cut through? 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.120 You know? Is it Jensen McCrae one listen, holy shit? 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:30.080 Or is it something else? Right? Um? And I think 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:34.040 it's how intelligent how can you act given the new 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:39.880 tool set? Well, I'm plugging specifically about cash frequently it's 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:43.600 a it's make a bunch of videos, you get some traffic, 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:45.840 you get viral and you get some ad sense from YouTube, 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:48.119 and you know if people are if you read about it, 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.440 you can make money that way, you could. You need 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.119 a lot of you sift. What I understand. My point 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:58.400 is that there is ad revenue. There didn't used to be, Okay, ever, 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:00.919 there is ad revenue across a bunch of platforms if 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.840 you can generate traffic. If you were look, Bob, I 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:06.920 cannot answer you to tell you that all the two 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:09.800 trillion artists who want to make it in this world 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.960 are gonna make money. They're not. That's not how the 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:15.640 system works. Okay. No matter what system, and no matter 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:18.880 how open it is, there's a bunch that get through, 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:23.399 have traffic, listeners and fans that make money from the 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.480 bottom of the pyramids. Let me let me be very specific. 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.960 In all these days, you put a band on the road, 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:33.879 they need a van, they might need hotel rooms and usually, 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:37.960 and usually there was short full. In the old days, 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:40.639 it was the label, assuming there was a label, or 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:43.760 the manager. If there is not a label, is it 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:51.159 still the manager's taking care of that shortfall? Necessity is 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.040 the mother of invention. I know a lot of artists 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:57.000 to sleep on couches who make phone calls to work 0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:59.600 the networks. I was talking to Jim Casey who came 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:02.159 out of defying his so far sounds. They do shows 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:07.760 in people's living rooms. People just scale down. They released records, 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:10.880 they put it on band camp. They sell twenty records 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:16.879 at ten dollars each and they make they make do, 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:19.359 and they make do with the costs they have. Like 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:22.280 everybody else, you can create a home to which you 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.199 couldn't use to. Yeah, they find a way. If you 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:29.040 talk to people who sell clubs, and of course clubs 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:32.280