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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the Bell Cast. Hey Caitlin, Hey Jamie,

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Speaker 1: can you meet me in the playroom in fifteen minutes. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I would love to meet you and your Neil at

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Speaker 1: the door. Don't make eye contact with me, so sorry.

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Speaker 1: I'm in charge. It's an expensive looking room. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of gizmos and gadgets are plenty serious. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the I think that was a good opening. That was

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Speaker 1: a good opening. We've got a lot to sort through today.

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Speaker 1: And I would say that I'm for sure underqualified to

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Speaker 1: talk about today's movie. To talk about today's movie, I

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Speaker 1: also feel that way. We've been talking about doing this

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Speaker 1: movie for a couple of months. It's been a fan

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Speaker 1: a popular fan request. I've been dreading this episod. Really

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Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to it, but also knowing that

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Speaker 1: every other word ought to be like but I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I the only I've I mounted a drummer.

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Speaker 1: The most I'll do in sex is all of the

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Speaker 1: work to make it end sooner. Um, okay, this is

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel Cast. This is our our My name is

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Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin, our podcast about how

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Speaker 1: women are portrayed in movies. It sure is. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to get a Mike's Hard because it's like

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Speaker 1: kind of early. But then I thought about how much

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Speaker 1: we have to get through, and I was like, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get a Mike Hart. I can't actually need

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Speaker 1: to do it that hiss, Mike's hard. Uh, the ball

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Speaker 1: still in our court. The ball is in our court.

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Speaker 1: They literally they owe us the ball is in our

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Speaker 1: red room if we have to do something about it.

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Speaker 1: In your mouth every time someone vendom ozes me, it's

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Speaker 1: in like you do it every single time. It's the

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Speaker 1: number of Mike's hards it is, which is just you know,

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Speaker 1: it's two dollars. I owe you. I m ow you

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Speaker 1: for right right that I'll get you through the week. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we use the Bechdel test as a just

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Speaker 1: sort of jumping off point for a larger conversation. The

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Speaker 1: Bechdel test for us is two female characters in the

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Speaker 1: movie who have names have to speak to each other

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Speaker 1: in the story, and their conversation has to be about

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Speaker 1: anything besides a man. So we'll see how this movie affairs.

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Speaker 1: But first, let's introduce our guests. Oh my gosh, she's

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Speaker 1: a hilarious comedian. She's the host of a new podcast

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Speaker 1: called Loner at coy Wolf Creek. Sarah Schaeffer, Hi, thanks

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Speaker 1: for having being here so passionate about this topic. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to our Thank you tell us why you chose this movie. Um,

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Speaker 1: while the new fifty Shades is out now, so it's

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Speaker 1: timely the closing chapter, right, the last well of the

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Speaker 1: I think she continue E. L. James continued to write

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Speaker 1: other things like, oh, it's now from Christian point of view,

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Speaker 1: like there's all these spinoffs interesting, but I don't know

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Speaker 1: if they're gonna make movies of those. But anyway, so

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Speaker 1: it's a franchise and the third one is out. I

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Speaker 1: had never seen the second or third one. I have

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Speaker 1: now in the past twenty four hours seen everything. Congratulations,

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Speaker 1: been real turned on for good twelve hours, just totally sittillated.

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Speaker 1: I just came straight from the movie theater and um,

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Speaker 1: I have a lot to say, Okay, but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do this movie because I think it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I just think there's so many things to talk about,

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Speaker 1: a lot to unpack, a lot and and sorry, were

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Speaker 1: you into the books at all as their Um? I

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Speaker 1: was not. I read like one paragraph and was like,

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Speaker 1: this is truly the worst writing. I mean, it's really bad.

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Speaker 1: I mean the woman, I don't know how old she was,

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Speaker 1: maybe in her four thirties or forties when she wrote it.

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Speaker 1: I think, um, it was the first time she'd ever

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Speaker 1: written anything, and it was like on a whim, you know,

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Speaker 1: Star Twilight fan fiction, and so our standards probably should

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Speaker 1: be a little lofer. But the fact that I got

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Speaker 1: so popular A little backstory on me. There was a

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Speaker 1: short time a couple of years in New York I

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Speaker 1: was actually working. This is really a little insight onto

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Speaker 1: how if any young comedians out there, people pursuing an

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Speaker 1: entertainment career, how fucked up it is. I was the

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Speaker 1: head blogger for Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, biggest break

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Speaker 1: of my career, but I wasn't making enough money to

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Speaker 1: make ends meet. So I had all these side jobs,

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Speaker 1: which was crazy because I was working like fourteen hours

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Speaker 1: a day, and one of my side jobs was to

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Speaker 1: go to my friend Rachel Kramer Bustle. She's a big

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Speaker 1: writer in the erotic fiction world and erotic nonfiction erotic

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Speaker 1: writing in general. And she hosted a monthly erotic reading

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Speaker 1: series in New York and she hired me to come

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Speaker 1: and film it and then put the videos up online.

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Speaker 1: And then I also made book trailers for her anthologies,

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Speaker 1: which one was about spanking, and so I literally made

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Speaker 1: a little short film of people getting spanked with clothes on,

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Speaker 1: because like she wanted it to be you know, PG,

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Speaker 1: so that more people could see it. Um. But it

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Speaker 1: was one of the weirdest things I've ever all these

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Speaker 1: weird side jobs. So anyway I heard during that time.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I read a lot of erotic because

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Speaker 1: I just I'm not a big book reader. I love reading.

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Speaker 1: I go through phases of reading books. But um, I

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Speaker 1: was an English major, you know whatever, I can read, guys.

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Speaker 1: Um speaking of what we majored. And I do have

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Speaker 1: a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston, Okaya qualified on

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Speaker 1: so you are qualified to talk about this. Um. I

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Speaker 1: got into a screaming match with uh debt collector. So

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Speaker 1: I too went to college? Yes you did, so anyway

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Speaker 1: I heard during this time, I heard a lot of

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Speaker 1: erotic writing. So then when fifty Shades became popular, I

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Speaker 1: was shocked at how vanilla it was, and like how

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Speaker 1: the stuff I heard was way more advanced and complex. Um, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll go into So I watched the movie a couple

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Speaker 1: of times, as I always do to prep for every episode,

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Speaker 1: and then I did some extra work where I talked

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Speaker 1: to a lot of people who have been in B

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Speaker 1: D s M relationships before just to gain a better understanding.

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Speaker 1: I did a deep dive. So I have a lot

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Speaker 1: to say in regards to that specifically, like how those

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Speaker 1: people experience those relationships and also how they perceive this

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Speaker 1: movie to be and how well or poorly they feel

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Speaker 1: it represents being in a dom sub relationship. But we'll

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Speaker 1: get into that. But yeah, we've all we've all got

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Speaker 1: interesting angles on this sight. My little ankle I'm bringing

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Speaker 1: to the table. I entered this God entered does not

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Speaker 1: work in this particular episode I learned of fifty Shades

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Speaker 1: of gray. I think, well, I mean because this was

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Speaker 1: like such a huge cultural moment where I remember my

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Speaker 1: friends and I when I was in college, we would

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Speaker 1: look to see how many people we could see reading

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Speaker 1: it on the train, because that was like a thing

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Speaker 1: that people were doing it, Like, oh, it's so funny

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Speaker 1: that people are reading this like kinky book in public,

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Speaker 1: and what an interesting horny move to be like a

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Speaker 1: you know, horny alpha move. But then I actually interacted

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Speaker 1: with it for the first time. When my mom was like, Jenny,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to believe this thing. I found she

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Speaker 1: did the same thing with the Twilight series, which makes

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Speaker 1: sense because so much of the top half of this

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Speaker 1: movie you could just be like, oh, yeah, it's pretty

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Speaker 1: much Twilight but with no vampires and Kinky aged up

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Speaker 1: five years but whatever. So my mom was really like

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Speaker 1: she had the box set this is prior to the movies,

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Speaker 1: very into it. She was like trying to get me

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Speaker 1: to read the first book. And so all my early

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Speaker 1: experience with this franchise was all moms. And that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of like what the audience for this is, It

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Speaker 1: is moms, And I know a lot when the movie

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Speaker 1: started coming out, like friends of mine would go with

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Speaker 1: their moms and it was like this can key bonding thing.

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Speaker 1: But I do think it's like a thing, and and

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Speaker 1: you know, there's five million pieces written about fifty shades

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Speaker 1: of great. Every single take has been taken at this point,

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Speaker 1: but just we're going to come in with a new one.

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Speaker 1: Someone heard me say that, They're like, actually just going

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Speaker 1: to shut it off there. But but it is interesting

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Speaker 1: to me where like that this is like obviously a

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Speaker 1: franchise with a primary female audience. And how with with

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Speaker 1: Twilight too. It's like people are so shamed for like

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Speaker 1: going to see these movies and enjoying them, even even

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Speaker 1: if it is like, you know, it's a campy and

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Speaker 1: it's a little silly and and to your point, is

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Speaker 1: not an accurate representation of the B D s M community.

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Speaker 1: But I mean I know I for sure participated and

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Speaker 1: being like this is so stupid, this is so silly

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Speaker 1: and dumb. And now I'm just like who cares? You know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's people enjoy it. If this is how moms

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Speaker 1: learn about kink, let them. Let them. Mom's flipping to

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Speaker 1: come to that. After watching it today, I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's nine. I mean, there's issues we can get into

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Speaker 1: the theater I was in today because it was early,

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Speaker 1: it was like noon, if there weren't many people in

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Speaker 1: the audience, um at that showing, but everyone was kind

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Speaker 1: of like chuckling and laughing and they're to kind of

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Speaker 1: sort of go with it. I mean, ultimately, if it's

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Speaker 1: a fantasy, you know, and there's there's there's stuff that

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Speaker 1: appeals to me, and it like, how can you not

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Speaker 1: get caught up in the fantasy of like an extremely

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Speaker 1: attractive rich man like whiskying you away with you? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that is like, you know, and obviously not

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Speaker 1: everybody is into that, but like there is something beautiful

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Speaker 1: about it where it's just I candy or like, my god, lush. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I just want to say that at the top

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Speaker 1: because there is so much to unpack, but I don't

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Speaker 1: I I feel badly when it's like I don't want

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Speaker 1: people to feel bad for enjoying a movie like this,

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Speaker 1: especially if it's their first exposure to something like this,

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Speaker 1: because it is that in a lot of ways, it

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Speaker 1: is fun. There's a former guest of the cast, Lindsay Ellis,

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Speaker 1: recently made a really interesting video essay I would direct

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Speaker 1: everyone to will put it in the notes of this episode.

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Speaker 1: We always say that, but we've never had literally never

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Speaker 1: had not check out the notes maybe anyways, but she

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Speaker 1: made this great video essay about the Twilight franchise and

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Speaker 1: about all the vitriol and basically how society has a

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Speaker 1: way of really unloading on anything that teenage girls really

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Speaker 1: like and and equally stupid things that teenage boys like,

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Speaker 1: like transformers and ship like that don't get the same

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Speaker 1: kind of vitriol. Um And I would argue that fifty

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Speaker 1: Shades of Gray for for a slightly older audience kind

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Speaker 1: of falls under the same umbrella. So if you enjoy

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Speaker 1: these movies and you went to see them, I don't

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Speaker 1: want you to feel bad about yourself. That said, and

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Speaker 1: now the rest of the podcast. First, I want to

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Speaker 1: say that I saw the movie the first one in

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Speaker 1: the theater two thousand fifteen. It was the first movie

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Speaker 1: I saw in the theater when I moved to Los Angeles. Ever,

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Speaker 1: but if the first movie I ever saw in a

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Speaker 1: movie theater was no Um, I moved to l A

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Speaker 1: and then that was the first movie I saw after

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Speaker 1: moving here. Interesting that I saw in the theater. I

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Speaker 1: went with a few gal pals. I did not really

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Speaker 1: know what the movie was, or I hadn't read any

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Speaker 1: of the books. I still haven't. I have now seen

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Speaker 1: the first two movies at this point, I have not

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Speaker 1: seen the third one, but I do have plans to

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Speaker 1: go see it on Valentine's Day brag Um, I know,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I um, well, I'll get into that later.

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Speaker 1: I can't. I would be remiss not to bring up

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Speaker 1: the Bengo board. One of our fans made a Bengo board,

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Speaker 1: And now every time we talked about something we've talked

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Speaker 1: about previously, I'm thinking about the Bingo board. And I

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Speaker 1: came into this episode thinking about the Bingo board. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: where anytime we mentioned one of our motifs, if you will,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Did you do you have a

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Speaker 1: master's degree in screen writing or something like that? I

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Speaker 1: don't like to bring it up. So I mean I

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Speaker 1: might just have some ban on board moments, okay, which

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Speaker 1: is okay. So the recap of fifty Shades of Gray. Um,

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Speaker 1: we meet Anastasia Steele. She is about to graduate from

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Speaker 1: college played by Dakota Johnson, who is Melanie Griffis daughter

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Speaker 1: slash Tippy Hedren's granddaughter. She's a legacy. She fills in

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Speaker 1: for her roommate, who is a journalism student, to do

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Speaker 1: this interview or interviewing someone named Christian Gray for the

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Speaker 1: school newspaper. So she goes and interviews him. He is

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Speaker 1: a twenty seven year old billionaire. He's already he's built

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Speaker 1: this huge business empire. Okay, there's so much vagueness in

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Speaker 1: this movie, and I really love where they choose what

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Speaker 1: does he do? What is his job? It seems like

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Speaker 1: he does telecommunications. I thought it was green energy, literally,

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Speaker 1: because there was a mention she was like a Mudge

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Speaker 1: fund that mentioned at one point. Mother right, they're starving

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Speaker 1: children in Africa, agricultural projects in Africa. He's like a

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Speaker 1: Richard Branson type. He's got his hands in everything. Sometimes face,

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Speaker 1: sometimes learning. Sometimes he just has to go well in

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Speaker 1: the second most So also you can have it all. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So the scene where he and Anna meet and she's

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Speaker 1: interviewing him, and he's kind of like, I mean, immediately

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Speaker 1: he's pretty condescending of just like what is this question?

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Speaker 1: Was this question? And at first I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: he's being mean to her, But then I listened to

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Speaker 1: her questions. I'm like, oh, she's off, she's doing a

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Speaker 1: really bad job. She was just like what she's an

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Speaker 1: English lip major. She's the girl who wrote the babe

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Speaker 1: dot net article about Za. Sorry, She's like, she's like,

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Speaker 1: she's like twenty one years old, like doing a really

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Speaker 1: high profile red. I'm just like she she's like, do

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Speaker 1: you have a hobby? And he's like what, I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm on his side, Like you're taking up

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Speaker 1: his time? Do you have a hobby? I wrote the

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Speaker 1: questions questions, Well, they're not even her questions or her

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Speaker 1: roommates ques anyway, the whole her roommate could not look

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Speaker 1: less twenty one if she tried. Anyways, So she, you know,

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Speaker 1: they have this sort of awkward encounter where she doesn't

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Speaker 1: do a very good job interviewing him. But he's mysterious,

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Speaker 1: he's brooding, he's hot, and there's just the immediate spark.

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Speaker 1: Well in the script there was written that they had

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Speaker 1: an immediate spark. Do you all think that Jamie Dornan

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Speaker 1: is hot? I can't. I can't. I'm not sure. For me.

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Speaker 1: It's his eyes. They're dead, they're dead, which makes him very,

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Speaker 1: very good in the show The Fall because chiller, because

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Speaker 1: he plays a serial killer and I'm actually, and this

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Speaker 1: is super fucked up to say, but I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: attracted to him in the Fall and he's literally a

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Speaker 1: serial killer and a rapist. There's a lot of going

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Speaker 1: back there. That's a separate podcast I would do with

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Speaker 1: my therapist. The Fall is excellent, It's so good, and

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Speaker 1: Julian Anderson is so good. Nice Anyway, I wish I

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Speaker 1: hadn't said that, but I can. People who have seen

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Speaker 1: The Fall will understand you've seen it, haven't well. And

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Speaker 1: there's also just like the whole serial killer thing, We've

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Speaker 1: all been there. For me, it's Durst. I'm a Durst

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Speaker 1: goal myself. The leads I want to dog killed him,

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Speaker 1: all like that. Of course, yeah, you're attracted to him.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I am at swaddle him like

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Speaker 1: a baby and carry him around. There's it's okay to

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Speaker 1: be titillated by things that are taboo. Exactly. So wise

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Speaker 1: shows about murder and serial killers wouldn't not be on

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Speaker 1: the air. Apparently Jamie Dornan has corner at that market.

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Speaker 1: But for Christian great. Yeah, there's just something every time,

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Speaker 1: there's moments where it's like he's registering with me as

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Speaker 1: a person who's hot, but I'm not like attracted him anyways,

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Speaker 1: Everyone's going to feel different, sure, exactly, so, um, they

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Speaker 1: are played by all from Molina for your consideration. Visi's great,

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Speaker 1: We're Alfred willing to plays Christian Gray. We all have

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Speaker 1: our own Christian Gray. Jamie Dornan, I there, it's it

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Speaker 1: is the eyes. He's dead in the eyes. Yeah, not

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Speaker 1: to bring down a fellow, Jamie, Jamie and Jamie violence

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Speaker 1: really rampant, and then Jamie community not good. I'm so

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Speaker 1: sorry to hear that. So these two characters, Anastasia Steal

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Speaker 1: and Christian Gray are meant to be having a spark.

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Speaker 1: So they have this kind of awkward interview and she's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I was still about Anasta. Christian She's like all hot

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Speaker 1: and yeah. There's a moment at the elevator and then

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Speaker 1: she walks outside and it's like pouring rain and then

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Speaker 1: she like horn tips her head back and she's like,

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Speaker 1: holy go the horny rain is I really liked the

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Speaker 1: horny rain. So she's about to carry on with her

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Speaker 1: life until Christian Grave shows up again at her work

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Speaker 1: in the hardware store and he's like, I need a

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Speaker 1: bunch of rope and tape and all the cable ties,

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Speaker 1: and she's what's happening? Why are you here? Because at

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Speaker 1: this point she's living in Portland and he's in Seattle,

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Speaker 1: so he like traveled all this way to stalk her,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, which is one of the many Twilight parallels

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Speaker 1: early in this movie that it's like, okay, we know

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Speaker 1: where the first act is completely mapped in Twilight. So

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Speaker 1: he's like, let's go get coffee. And then they're like

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Speaker 1: chatting and she's like, yeah, I'm an English lit major.

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Speaker 1: I like romance. And he's like, oh, never mind, I'm

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Speaker 1: not into romance. But then like they're still switched about

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Speaker 1: it because I when he said that, I thought he

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Speaker 1: was gonna be like, oh, never mind, I'm not into

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Speaker 1: college students. But that is not a problem for him,

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Speaker 1: not a problem. Well, she was about to graduate, so

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Speaker 1: she's probably probably yeah, so that he's drawn to her,

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Speaker 1: she's drawn to him. But there's something. There's just a

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Speaker 1: little something that seems to be keeping them apart, and

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Speaker 1: we don't know what it is. Is he a vampire?

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Speaker 1: Isn't the distance between Portland and Seattle unclear? He's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a bad idea for you to hang out

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Speaker 1: with me, but I can't stay away from you. Then

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Speaker 1: one night, she gets really drunk and he like shows up,

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Speaker 1: but where she is She did not tell him where

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Speaker 1: she was, but he somehow did she not tell him.

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Speaker 1: He uses, no, this is my main I'll save it.

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Speaker 1: But I guess he uses his telecommunications empire to figure

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Speaker 1: out where she is. And then he shows up and

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Speaker 1: then they spend the night together because he kind of

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Speaker 1: like takes care of her and like, and every detail

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Speaker 1: of that is dark. Where she wakes up the next

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Speaker 1: morning and she's just like, did you undress me? And

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Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, I had I had no choice. You

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Speaker 1: were covered in vomit. Very shame he was shaming here.

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Speaker 1: He was barfi and then and also she didn't ask

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Speaker 1: him to do anything, and also she wasn't even like

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Speaker 1: if every time I threw up as a twenty two

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Speaker 1: year old at a bar, It's just it was all

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Speaker 1: just such a weird overreaction. And then he was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: obviously I slept next to you. I mean, realistically, I

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Speaker 1: think we should really apply the Steve Bushey test here,

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Speaker 1: where you replace the Hount male lead with Steve Bushey

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Speaker 1: and see if it's serial killer behavior. And that absolutely

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Speaker 1: is every almost every single thing he does is and

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Speaker 1: and it's called the cops. So they start to sort

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Speaker 1: of develop this romance. But he's like, I have to

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Speaker 1: tell you something. And then he shows her his room,

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Speaker 1: his playroom. He calls it it's dark, expensive room. It's

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Speaker 1: revealed that he is into B D s M. Now

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Speaker 1: she is still a virgin at this point. She's never

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Speaker 1: had sex. She's never really had any sort of sexual encounter.

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Speaker 1: Very important thing to remember. That's another Yeah, that's another

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Speaker 1: thing that really bugs me about whatever. Yes, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we'll get into it. Really about He's like, if you're

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Speaker 1: going to do this, and you can leave at any time,

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Speaker 1: but if you consent to entering into this type of relationship.

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Speaker 1: Here the sort of conditions. He sort of like, you're

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Speaker 1: going to move in for the weekends. There's literally yeah there'

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Speaker 1: he draws up this whole. He makes her sign a

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Speaker 1: nondisclosure agreement first, and then he I want to start

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Speaker 1: doing just like drowning in red flags at this point.

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Speaker 1: That's why she speaks so softly. And then yeah, so

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Speaker 1: then he shows her the room and she was like, WHOA,

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Speaker 1: I don't know about this. This is all new to me,

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Speaker 1: a whole new world. And then let's see how many

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Speaker 1: Disney songs I can sing um and then he's like,

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Speaker 1: we will agree to everything that might happen ahead of time.

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Speaker 1: There's gonna be like I need you written consent to

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Speaker 1: so they he draws up his contract, and then there's

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Speaker 1: this actually what I think is a pretty fun scene

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Speaker 1: where they negotiate the terms of the contract. I liked

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Speaker 1: that scene, saying like what she's will willing and not

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Speaker 1: willing to do? In the meantime, they're like, she has

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Speaker 1: sex with him for the first time in a non

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Speaker 1: there's no bondage or there's no so manipulative the way

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Speaker 1: they he does. I mean, like the whole central relationship

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Speaker 1: issue here that I feel like probably misrepresents b DSM

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Speaker 1: relationships in general, is like one is kinky, the other

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Speaker 1: just wants a regular relationship. Can they make it work?

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Speaker 1: And at every point in the movie it kind of

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Speaker 1: seems like, no, they can't. She really does just want

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Speaker 1: a normal relationship and he really doesn't. So, but we

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Speaker 1: do see her consenting for the part to the things

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Speaker 1: that he does. So then the movie, it's sort of

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Speaker 1: the big climactic moment is when she's like, I don't

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Speaker 1: really understand why this needs to be part of our relationship,

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Speaker 1: like why do you want to punish me? This isn't

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Speaker 1: really what I want because part of like sort of

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Speaker 1: the terms of the contract is that, like, there are

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Speaker 1: these rules. Um, if she obeys them, she will be rewarded.

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Speaker 1: If she disobeys them, she will be punished. Really unsexy

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Speaker 1: climactic scene to this movie, well yeah, because then so

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Speaker 1: she she's still trying to gain an understanding of why

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Speaker 1: he needs this or what what about this is fil

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Speaker 1: filling to him and because she's not really feeling the

401
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: same way, and then she says something like I need

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Speaker 1: to see how far this can go, like I need

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Speaker 1: to see what the limits of this are. And then

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Speaker 1: there's a scene where he strikes her with a flogging

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Speaker 1: device I don't know the terms, six times and she's

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Speaker 1: going and it's a full on whip in that part,

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Speaker 1: and this greatly upsets her and she is basically just like,

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Speaker 1: don't touch me. This is over. I gotta go. I'm out,

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Speaker 1: And that is pretty much the end of the movie.

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Speaker 1: Wait you left, I probably left some left out where

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Speaker 1: the elevator door start to poz and another emotional dey

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Speaker 1: of names end of the movie it to black you

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Speaker 1: really do have to see all three Okay to understand

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Speaker 1: this story. Okay, I will poorly constructed story. So I've

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Speaker 1: seen one cait scene to Saracene three. Al Right, well

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Speaker 1: it so for me. I was telling Caitlin this on

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Speaker 1: the way over. I mean before we get into the

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Speaker 1: sub sub subcategories. Wait when you said sububs, did you

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Speaker 1: mean subcategory about subs? Oh my god, no, go on there,

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Speaker 1: but but another term that we'll have to Okay for

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Speaker 1: me if the franchise ends at the end of movie one,

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Speaker 1: I almost think it's like, for all of its problems,

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Speaker 1: kind of an interesting story because what I was expecting

424
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 1: going into this because I didn't really I know what

425
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: happens up until the scene in the hardware store, because

426
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: that's where the writing got too bad and I had

427
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: to stop reading my mom's book. And also I was like,

428
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: I'm reading my mom's Krusty Comb book like I don't

429
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: want to anymore, so I stopped reading it. So after

430
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: that I didn't know what happened. And as a protagonist,

431
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: Anastasia does undergo a pretty like significant arc. I thought,

432
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: where you know, she's whatever three, like she's a verge

433
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,479
Speaker 1: in at the beginning of the story and gets into

434
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: this pretty sus relationship. I think we're talking the fourth

435
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: time she has sex. She's being whipped exactly like I

436
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: can't imagine the third time. I mean, like it's so

437
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: very unbelievable. It's a steep curve. And I don't want

438
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: to spoil anything. And I don't think I am because

439
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: like I think everyone knows the third one, they get married,

440
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: because like at the end of the second one there, yeah, yeah,

441
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: Mrs Gray. Okay, so I am not joking when I

442
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,719
Speaker 1: tell you that the entire trilogy is maybe eight weeks

443
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: of time. I am hidden, they even say. And there's

444
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: a point in the third movie where they go, well

445
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: that happened three weeks ago, and it was like something

446
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: from the second movie, and I was like, oh my god,

447
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: this one. This character goes from college student virgin to

448
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to give away dungeon. It's

449
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: unable from the point that they meet in the first

450
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: movie and book to the end. Maybe I don't know

451
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 1: about the book, but in the movies it's like eight

452
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: weeks of time. It is so crazy, like from her

453
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: graduation till like the next September it's really weird, and

454
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: it's the specific Northwest you can't tell seasons training. I

455
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: kept projecting like Horny Fraser into all the Seattle scenes.

456
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 1: But but in terms of like if the franchise ends

457
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: at the end of the first movie, for me, she

458
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: gets into this relationship, it escalates very quickly. She is

459
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: in many ways sort of empowered by B D s

460
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: M and learning how to say no and set boundaries

461
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: where she's very meek at the beginning and uses that

462
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: new knowledge to break off this harmful relationship end of movie.

463
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: If it ends right there, I'm almost like, that's kind

464
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: of an interesting story and not you know, artfully told,

465
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: but an interesting story. But every one knows the date

466
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: does not stop there. So but if it in the

467
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: you know devil, if it ends at the first movie

468
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 1: and she just moves on with her life and with like, wow,

469
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: what a weird time. Anyways, moving on, I'm twenty two,

470
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,719
Speaker 1: you know, like I thought, kind of interesting. Well, okay,

471
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: let me start by saying, one of the reasons I'm

472
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: dreading this episode is because I feel like I'm a virgin.

473
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: I only saw a movie in the theater for the

474
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: first time three years ago and I have never had sex. No.

475
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: The reason I'm dreading this is I think I'm going

476
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: to accidentally misspeak or just say some things that sound

477
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: kind of kink shaming, and I don't want to do that.

478
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: I'm coming at this topic of b D s M

479
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: from an outsider. I don't have any experience in a

480
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: relationship of that nature, and I'm having issues digesting it

481
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: as a relationship dynamic. Since I've spoken to some people,

482
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: I've gained a better understanding of it, and I feel

483
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: a little bit differently. But to me, at first, before

484
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: I spoke to anyone about it, and especially pretty much

485
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: my entry into this type of thing, aside from going

486
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: to the Museum of Sex, New York City several times

487
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: and like reading some stuff there, I didn't know that

488
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: much about b D s M. So to me, from

489
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: an outsider's perspective, I was looking at a dom sub relationship,

490
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: especially one that is a male dom and a female sub,

491
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: and to me that just looked like sort of a

492
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: very heightened version of what society's expectations are of men

493
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: and women, and how men are expected to be the dominant,

494
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: powerful ones and women are expected to be submissive, obedient people.

495
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: And I was having a just a difficult time accepting

496
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: that as a things. I was like, well, how could

497
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: that be empowering to anyone? And what like it Just

498
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: I was, you know, just really struggling with that. And also,

499
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: this is me. I'm coming from a place where my

500
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: tastes and sex, not to get too graphic, are extremely vanilla. Um,

501
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: I'm so boring. I like very boring sex. I don't

502
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: sex shame yourself. Boring sex works. My kink is extremely

503
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: boring sex. Um. So there's not really anything about b

504
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: D s M that appeals to me. And I think

505
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: that's okay, just as people who are into b D

506
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: s M that's okay too. But I'm I was still

507
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: just like, well, what about how like this is like

508
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: submissive women and I want women to be empowered, Like

509
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 1: a lot of what we talked about on this podcast

510
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: is like women who have agency and women who make

511
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: choices and are strong and empowered and all this stuff,

512
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: and like that's what I really enjoy. And then to

513
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: see a relationship dynamic where the woman is submissive and

514
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: the male is dominant, I was just like, ah, but

515
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: I've spoken to some people who have experienced b D

516
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: s M relationships and they have cleared some things up

517
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: from me if you would like to hear about it, okay.

518
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: So I spoke to four people total. Three of them

519
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: were women who were the sub and a hetero relationship

520
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: where they had a male dom. One of them was

521
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: a guy and I wasn't sure if he was a

522
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: sub in this relationship, but he said that he was

523
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: in a relationship with a DOM, So I don't know

524
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: if that dynamic played out where he was the sub,

525
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: but he was able to he answered some questions I had,

526
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: so um. The first question I basically asked everyone was

527
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: what is it about b D s M that people

528
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: who are into it find appealing or fulfilling? What do

529
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: you get out of that type of relationship? I think

530
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: that's a very complicated question that differs for every person,

531
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: and it's going to be different for everyone. But it

532
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: seems as though some of the common trends that I

533
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: discovered where it can help people cope with a past

534
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: traumatic sexual event or an assault. For subs, it can

535
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: be enjoyable because they like to feel as though they're

536
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: taken care of. Um. It also allows them an outlet

537
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,239
Speaker 1: where they don't have to be in control because they

538
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: might have a lot of power and responsibility and other

539
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: aspects of type stuff life. So it's like, I like

540
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: to not have to be in control of this situation. Similarly, um,

541
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: they just like to feel It's like it's freeing to

542
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: just sort of surrender control and not to have to

543
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: worry about what to do to like please someone sexually.

544
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: Like it's like you just tell me what to do

545
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: and I'll do it, and like I don't want to

546
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: have to worry about what to do next or if

547
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: you're enjoying yourself or whatever. So I'm sure this doesn't

548
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: even begin to like this is like the tippitty Iceberg.

549
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: There's also like pain stuff. You know that, like pain

550
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: is a releasing sexual pleasure pleasure. Yeah, right, so this

551
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: is again I only spoke to four people, so basically

552
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, so it actually can be empowering to

553
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: these A lot of people would say the sub actually

554
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: has more power, yes, and that's another thing I learned.

555
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: I think that's different. But in movie three there's a

556
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: moment where you wonder who really is in control here? Well,

557
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: also I learned that subs set all the limits, and

558
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: well we see that kind of in the negotiations scene.

559
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: So I did some inadvertent research for this episode a

560
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago in this very building, because comedians

561
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: Eli Olsberg and Alison Stevenson hosted this show called SSFW

562
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: where they invited a DOM in a sub who worked

563
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: professionally in a dungeon, a Los Angeles area dungeon check

564
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: it out in the Metropolitans met our dungeon, and uh,

565
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: there was like a panel of comedians and then we

566
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: were just I mean, it was basically just an open

567
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: dialogue with with a DOM and a sub who have

568
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: that relationship personally but also work in that sector professionally,

569
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: and it was really enlightening and I super encourage people

570
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: who have never learned anything about it because this was

571
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: my first experience just like listening to someone in front

572
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: of me talk about it openly for an hour, which

573
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: is kind of a cool thing to have happened. And

574
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: based on that, you know, quote unquote research as it were,

575
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: it seems like fifty Shades tries to get it right

576
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: and is not quite get it right. Like there's elements

577
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: of it and again this is I mean the same

578
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: same as you. Like, I've never been in a b

579
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: D s M relationship. I pretty much exclusively fuck magicians

580
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: and drummers, as I've said before, and I have no

581
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: intention of changing or improving myself, so uh, and they're

582
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: notoriously lazy in bed so uh not a B D

583
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: s M gal But from my understanding of it, like

584
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: there was a lot of talk about how contracts work

585
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: and how in b DSM relationships, uh, in particular, like

586
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: communication and like clear and positive communication is so important

587
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: because like the relationship, I mean, every relationship relies on communication,

588
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: but this one extends to physical safety. And I feel like,

589
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: and again we'll feel free to disagree because I don't

590
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: have the context for it, but I feel like this

591
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: movie and franchise kind of conflates like a kinky b

592
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: D s M style relationship with an abusive relationship and

593
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: says like one equals the other, when all the research

594
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: I've read indicates that that is not at all the case.

595
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean that's like she's being introduced to

596
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: this world that she doesn't know anything about, and she's

597
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: confused by it and doesn't feel the way he feels,

598
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: which is this is supposed to be awesome, and this

599
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: is what I want. It's like someone who is I

600
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: don't know the labels they give themselves, so I apologize

601
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: if I'm getting it wrong. But like someone who's into

602
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: B D s M and then someone who's not king

603
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: first non kink or something, um kink versus virgin, she

604
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: doesn't know what she is yet. I mean she might

605
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: be later, you know, but she doesn't know, and so

606
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: she's being introduced to it. Some of it she really likes,

607
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: she's are excited by it that some of it scares her,

608
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: and she's getting an education, like she's like getting a

609
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: PhD when she's like just learned how to read. Like

610
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: it's just too much. Um. So I can see that.

611
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: But what they do with the abuse thing, I think

612
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: is they give him this backstory that it like for him,

613
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: comes from a place of where he was abused, So

614
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: that's why this type of thing gets him off and

615
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 1: makes him feel good and in control. They get more

616
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: into that in the later movies, but like I think

617
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: for that point, it's like, that's okay if that's why

618
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: you're into B D s M. But I just think

619
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: she's so like, but I want to know why why

620
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: won't you let me touch you? Like and like, you know,

621
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: she just wants to know why, why are you into this?

622
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: And so there's a lot of like darkness put on it,

623
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: like it's this bad, shameful thing. So in that way,

624
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: it shames it a little. But then the other the

625
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: part that really bugs me the most about this movie,

626
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: other than the timeline part of it, when is just

627
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: like when I think about what I was like at

628
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: that age, and like, I I lost my virginity when

629
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: I was twenty one, so I was a little a

630
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: little later than other most of my friends, So I

631
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: know what it's like to be like a late bloomer

632
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: in some ways. I mean that's not the latest, but

633
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: like it was late for me, felt late and I

634
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: can't imagine going to that level that quickly. But one

635
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: of my biggest issues with it was that while the

636
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 1: sexual relationship was actually a pretty straightforward lesson and consent,

637
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: like I actually think that was correct consent in the

638
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: later and I don't know if it was two or

639
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: three because I just watched all of them in the

640
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: past one form, but there's like a moment where she

641
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: said actually uses her safe word, she says red and

642
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: he immediately stops and like unshackles her or whatever, and like,

643
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: you know, he like fully respects her sexually in that way,

644
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: even though he does try to wear her down and

645
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: he does some course of things. Um the part that

646
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 1: I can't get over, which is the the stalking behavior

647
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: like and that and the abusive like keeps playing out

648
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: where he doesn't want her hanging out with her friends.

649
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: He's isolating. These are things that abusers do, like they

650
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: don't want you talking to your friends or family. He

651
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: like knows her bank account numbers. He's like stalking her

652
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: and tracing her phone and like it's so inappropriate. And

653
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: I actually disagree with the Steve bishemything only in that

654
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: I don't care how attractive a guy was. I do

655
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: think if he was behaving that way, rich or anything,

656
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: there would be enough red flags where I would just

657
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: be like, you're fucking creepy, like even showing up my work.

658
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: I don't care who you are. If Brad Pitt did

659
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 1: that to me, I would be like, shut up, creeping

660
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: me out, And the illusion is gone because I mean,

661
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: I just don't find that attractive and so like, and

662
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: I always careful to like, even though it is hilarious

663
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: to think of like a gross, like shlubby guy from

664
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: accounting doing this stuff like that's hilarious, and of course

665
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: women are you know, the power dynamic. It wouldn't even matter,

666
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: like like how do you think Donald Trump gets women?

667
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: Like like he managed to do it? You know, like

668
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like it doesn't matter what

669
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 1: they look like. And I so I'm remiss to like

670
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: because an argument you see, like from men's rights activists

671
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: online all the time, is like, uh, well, if it

672
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: was attractive, I could do whatever I wanted, Like if

673
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: a hot guy did this, I could, you know, And

674
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: it's like, no, that's actually not true. But no one

675
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: wants to be like that does happened though, But she

676
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: does right in the movie. That's what the main thing

677
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 1: that I just can't do it. I can't handle that

678
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: part of it. It's like it's just and I understand

679
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: it's a fantasy, but that's not like what I would

680
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: fantasize about. The Virginia thing bothers me and it's not

681
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: even I mean, you know, she is a consenting adult.

682
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: I think the consent I mean, and I've only seen

683
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: the first movie, but consent seems to be something that

684
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: really was considered very carefully in the way it's represented

685
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: in this franchise, because it I mean it, it is

686
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: so easy to get it wrong. Movies get it wrong

687
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,959
Speaker 1: all the fucking time, and therefore why in the movies

688
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 1: we've covered on this podcast, there's a weird surprise kiss

689
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: that's presented as very roman so as far as consent goes, like,

690
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: I recognize that although she as a version, she is

691
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: a consenting adult as well. But in the scene where

692
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: she says she's a virgin, when she says that, that

693
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: like visibly increases her value to that where you know,

694
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: it's like right, and I'm like, no, this is where

695
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: you pump the brakes and make sure she knows what

696
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: she's getting into. That's the responsible way to deal with

697
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: the situation, not being like, oh, I have to you know,

698
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: because that is manipulative behavior. He already knows at this

699
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: point that she does not know anything about B D

700
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: s M and is interested in a traditional relationship, like

701
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: he knows that, and so what he does to get

702
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: her into this B D s M relationship is give

703
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: her taste of what a traditional relationship might be like

704
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: and takes her virginity. And I just that really bothered me.

705
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 1: That felt like especially big like trespassing of like someone

706
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: who just doesn't know yet. It's values. It sucks, and

707
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: especially because that scene where like he's about to take

708
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: her virginity if you will, He's like, we need to

709
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: change this situation. She's like, oh, it's on a situation,

710
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: am I But like because they had already talked about

711
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: consent and how important that is. But then he isn't like,

712
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: well can I have sex with you? Like I don't know,

713
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: it's this weird. He's like, I'm going to take you

714
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 1: into the room, and what's going to happen. He buries

715
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: the lead in a lot of ways. I think where

716
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: he starts he says, I've done this with five other

717
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 1: women or whatever, like he I think he's just fifteen

718
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: in this exact same situation, so he knows what he's

719
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: doing and he's an adult, and and he knows what

720
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: she doesn't know. And I just the way that she

721
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 1: enters this relationship seems it just puts her in such

722
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 1: a big disadvantage. And well, I mean, and then the

723
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: total control he has by buying in the movie too,

724
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: he buys the company she works for, and it's like,

725
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: you know, like I think there's just so much control.

726
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: It actually makes me not buy him as a dom.

727
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like he's in so much control in

728
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: his life. You would think that in his private life

729
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: he'd be a sub, But he was a sub. He

730
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: says he was a sub in his first b DS relationship,

731
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: which was rape because it was an adult woman with

732
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old boy, which an Asstasia calls out

733
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: multiple times, and she's like a predator that comes out. Yeah.

734
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 1: So when I first saw it was like, I fucking

735
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: hated that movie. It was just like watching someone being

736
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: raped and beaten, you know. And then by the third one,

737
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: I was kind of like I understand what they're trying

738
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: to do here, and it is a fantasy, and there

739
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: were parts of it that I was like kind of

740
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: caught up in. I mean, you know, the sex scenes

741
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,959
Speaker 1: to me, weren't that titillating, although there were a couple

742
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: of moments where I was like damn, oh my god,

743
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: like when the one where he first of all, he

744
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: breaks it, enters into her apartment and shows like so

745
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: Twilight moment, unacceptable. I don't care who you are, Um no,

746
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: not okay. I don't even if you were Brad Pitt

747
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: would be like, Brad Pitt, get the funk out of

748
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 1: my part out. So he shows up in her apartment

749
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 1: and he like fox her on the bed, and that

750
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: part I did. I was like, damn, I might have

751
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: to pause the movie, um like because he like pulls

752
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: up her shirt and uses it as a black and

753
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, that is that's good.

754
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: I mean, you can tell he's good at fucking, like

755
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: there's no question him and his dead eyes are. Yeah,

756
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: he's mechanical about it, like he's a robot, like you

757
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: will come, which is kind of hot multiple times, although

758
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: in the first movie she doesn't come. She does not come.

759
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: We don't see her come, yeah, which I found I

760
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: was waiting. There were also so much pubes in these movies,

761
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: like a lot of people, they go so close to

762
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: seeing Dick and Madge like they really and I appreciated

763
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: that I wrote I wrote down nice pubes, dorn and

764
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: and genuinely when I felt she's got pubs too well,

765
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: to the point that it was brought up earlier that

766
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: it has the same problem that we see in Twilight,

767
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: where like he is stalking her, he's being like a predator,

768
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: he's showing up at work, he's being very cootable. Okay,

769
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: So before I say that, I asked the people who

770
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 1: I was talking to. I said, does the dom sub

771
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: component of your relationship carry over into other parts of

772
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: your relationship not just like in the bedroom for sexual encounters,

773
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: And different people had different answers, so I think it

774
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: probably varies widely. So I was curious, Okay, is him

775
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: being controlling of her just an extension of him being

776
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: a dom right? But then I was like, I just

777
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: I simply can't accept that because he's being very predatory

778
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: and it's but it's framed as being romantic. She's like, Oh,

779
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: he's showing up at my work and he's traveled all

780
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: this way to see me. My thing is that it's

781
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: one thing if she agrees to all of that, but

782
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: she never signs. So if she signs the contract and

783
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: that behavior is happening, and that behaviors in the contract,

784
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: then Okay, you need to schedule a follow up meeting

785
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: with this guy. But I think there's a reason for

786
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: that after seeing all three. I think the reason is

787
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: is because he is changing to they're meeting in the

788
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 1: middle somehow, and you find you find that they're trying

789
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: to find a way to do the sex the way

790
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: he wants to do it, in a way that she's

791
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: comfortable with, and then in exchange and you see that

792
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: even happen in the contract negotiation where she gets a

793
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: little bit of the girlfriend experience in exchange, and so

794
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: you see him breaking his own rules because he's ill

795
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: I think we can do. I think that's the reason

796
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 1: the contract never got signed. Um, don't bite your lip.

797
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: I can't see it all right, Dar's like, don't bite

798
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: the lip by that lip. I don't want to come yet.

799
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: I don't want to Also, they he's behaving that way

800
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: long before it's ever agreed upon that they're going to

801
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: enter a D s M. So that's I think what's

802
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: the big problem is for me, one moment that I

803
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 1: was like, now this is just crazy is where he's

804
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,399
Speaker 1: buckling her into the helicopter, so sort of like him

805
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: buckling her up. But I was like, the way it's

806
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: done is very much like, um, the similar mechanism of

807
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: a baby of a car seat where you have to

808
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: pull it tight. And that made me once again like

809
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: underscore or something else that I kind of found interesting

810
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: about the movie is that it's so childlike in the telling,

811
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: and I'm so curious about b. L. James's sex life,

812
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: like the writer of the Book of Life that she's

813
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: never done anything other than missionary stunted, and like I

814
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 1: would even there were moments where I was like, this

815
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: movie reminds me of the Room where Tommy was so

816
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 1: in the room clearly had this childlike perception of relationship

817
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: of sex of like movies, and like this is I'm

818
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: going to portray it. And I felt this felt the

819
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: same thing about fifty Shades of Great, which is like

820
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 1: very childish, like a lot of real world problems just

821
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: sort of melted away. I don't know, just maybe it's

822
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: from having heard a lot of erotic writing that was

823
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: just more grown up and more mature and more really

824
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: about the characters and in the moment what it means,

825
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: and like this just felt sort of like an immature

826
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: view of what b DSM and kink would be. Someone

827
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 1: like al James, in my mind, probably had never done

828
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: any of this sex stuff and just fantasized about it,

829
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: imagined it. I don't think she, but I could be

830
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: wrong for me. The movie Secretary if you've ever seen.

831
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: That movie is an incredible portrayal of a B DSM

832
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 1: relationship and like and it's disturbed. It was my first

833
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: real introduction to that type of relationship and portrayed on

834
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: screen for sure, and I was really like, it's way

835
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: more complicated than I thought. It actually to me was

836
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 1: a beautiful love story. So I highly recommend watching that

837
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: movie because it's portraying this type of subdom relationship in

838
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: a way that is really raw and real and like

839
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 1: in the end, very touching. Like it's very it goes

840
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: to really fun places, but you you you understand the

841
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: commitment and the bond between them, and that this is

842
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: what these two people love and enjoy about each other.

843
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: Their dynamic is everything. Now it's there's some weirdness in that,

844
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,280
Speaker 1: the fact that he's her boss, but but he finds

845
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: his match, she finds her match, and it's kind of

846
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: like incredible, which I think another problem might have with

847
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: this movie is that the power dynamic, and I'm sort

848
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: of speculating here, but I would imagine that in a

849
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: healthy b DSM relationship, the power dynamic it's still pretty equal,

850
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: and even though it might seem as though one is

851
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: more dominant, and one is more submissive because the sub

852
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: is setting the limits and calling the shots and and

853
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: feeling liberated and all this stuff, and the dom is

854
00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: basically doing only what the submissive will allow. I would

855
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: imagine that there's still a pretty equal power balance. Struck.

856
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: One thing that the professional dom subs that I heard

857
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: speak really made a big emphasis on, something that I

858
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: noticed was not done in this movie, was like after

859
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: the playroom stuff is done, that it's like very important

860
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: to have like together time and like cool down time

861
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: and like i mean spooning basically after sex and and

862
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: just you know, it's like you've had this cathartic experience

863
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 1: and you've come to it in whatever way you've come

864
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: to it consentually. But afterwards it's like, Okay, now we're

865
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: just people and we're together and we care about each other,

866
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: and we don't see that here. And and there's one

867
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: scene in particular where they don't go full I mean,

868
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: but he he spanks her the night of her graduation

869
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: and then bails and she's upset, and it's like, yeah,

870
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 1: of course she's upset. She's you know, she's like still

871
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: not fully understanding what's happening, and then and then he

872
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: disappear years before there's any Actually, it's just like shitty,

873
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: I would have I would have got I'm like, I

874
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: was trying to imagine what that conversation with my mom

875
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: would have been, Like I would think, I don't know,

876
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: and I went back to work. I don't understand. That's

877
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, I think, there's he's exerting much

878
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: more power over her, and there is a very big

879
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: power imbalance in their relationship, whereas he seems like here's

880
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: a lot of its own spoken it's like a threat.

881
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: There's she's literally there's a point in the third movie

882
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: where she has to like sneak out of her own

883
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: home because he has security on her. And it's just

884
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: like and there's a reason for it, that isn't his fault,

885
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 1: but like it's just there's constant reminders throughout that this

886
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: man has total control over your life, and even if

887
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: you tried to get away from him, he would find you.

888
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: That's abuse. I mean, that's like, you know, that's the

889
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: worst nightmare for any woman to not feel that she

890
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: could come and go she pleases. Now, the whole time

891
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: she's in Astasia is like constantly bucking his attempts to

892
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: control her completely. You don't know me, I'll do what

893
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: I want and he's like, well, then I'll punish you,

894
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: and she's like okay. Um, So there's this weird dynamic

895
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: they're figuring out, I guess, but the fact that it

896
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: all happened so quickly is just bizarre. Yeah. There there's

897
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: like a I think that a very easy story fix,

898
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: I mean, of the million story fix is available through

899
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 1: this franchise. Is the only example of someone very into

900
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: b D s M that we see in the first

901
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: movie anyways, is Christian Gray. So everything we see about

902
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: b D s M is through his experience specifically, and

903
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: that's all we have. So even if he comes to

904
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: b D s M in a specific way that could

905
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: happen in real life, which is that he has a

906
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: past history of abuse, he is, outside of being into

907
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:59,879
Speaker 1: b D s M a manipulative and controlling person. That's one,

908
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: but we there's no counter example to show the audience

909
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: that that's not necessarily what a b D s M

910
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 1: relationship is or even what is normal. And so where

911
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: everything like, we only see one person who represents this

912
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: entire community, and it is directly connected to like, oh yeah,

913
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: fucked up behavior kind of does tie into b DSM

914
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: the way this movie presents it, like that's the bummer

915
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: that yeah, so many regular Americans this is their introduction

916
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: and then walk away from it going right, because that's

917
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: what that is. It's just it's just a couple. You

918
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: just tire up and your spanker a little bit. And

919
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: that that's because they never actually that was actually was disappointed.

920
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: They never actually did some hardcore b d s M

921
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: type like yes, master like that. It's pretty down, like

922
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, oh god. The contract negotiations scene is the

923
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: only time that you really get a glimpse into like

924
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: what could really be going on? What's but black? Although

925
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: Movie three Weight in Movie three Day to Do do

926
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: some more advanced stuff. I remember that now he gets

927
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 1: more advanced, he's letting him do some some more tools

928
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: are added to the situation. Back to the point that

929
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,240
Speaker 1: was made a little bit earlier that like, so he

930
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: was abused as a very young child, and I think

931
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: we're meant to believe that that maybe informs part of

932
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: why he is now into b d s M. But

933
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: the movie frames this is like something that he needs

934
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: to be cured of. Or fixed or that like his

935
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: his fetish for this. Yeah, as a result, but like,

936
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,879
Speaker 1: but as we discuss, like the several people I talked

937
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: about were like, yes, b D s M can actually

938
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: be a great way to cope with an assault or

939
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 1: pass abuse or something like that. But the fact that

940
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: the movie frames are like he needs to be cured

941
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: of this fetish that he has and there's other ways

942
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: for him to So like that's problem yeah, right, yeah,

943
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: because like the subtext there is like, oh, a functioning

944
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: person in society would not have this intrat because he's

945
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: the only person that we have to go on. Can

946
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 1: I say though, that this movie is directed by a woman,

947
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 1: The screenplays adapted by a woman, adapted from a book

948
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 1: written by a woman. It's based on a book written

949
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: by a different woman. Oh yeah, right, exactly, the Stephanie Meyer.

950
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: So I think that because so many women are involved

951
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: in the main sort of storytelling components, I think we

952
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: saw a different movie than we would have seen if

953
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,959
Speaker 1: he First of all, how many times does he eat

954
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: her out? That would never if men were involved. There's

955
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: a lot of emphasis on her, like her face, her pleasure,

956
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: And I understand that sometimes people have a problem with

957
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: that more than when they're like, you know, well now

958
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: it's men, or now we're all the male gaze upon

959
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: her body and out that there's a little bit of

960
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: that going on. But there was definitely, like I mean

961
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 1: there in the third movie he uses a vibrator on her,

962
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: and it occurred to me, this is truly the first

963
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: time I've ever seen a vibrator depicted in a movie

964
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: that wasn't an opportunity to shame a woman. Can you

965
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 1: think of any scene with a vibrator that wasn't where

966
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: the woman was being made fun of because she was

967
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 1: using a vibrator because she was old, or a mom

968
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 1: or getting caught with it. It's almost always like a

969
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:26,280
Speaker 1: joke like yeah, yeah, you loser. You know. It's always

970
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: depicted in a way that's meant to make the woman

971
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: feel bad for having having to use it. Right, it

972
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: is to me, as a vibrator enthusiast, it is to

973
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 1: me a godsend. Aliens sent it to us. They look

974
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: like they look like a little alien designs, like little spaceships,

975
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,720
Speaker 1: and they take it to space and they're they're the best,

976
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 1: I mean, like, and they should be used. I love

977
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 1: that he used it it's part of his playroom. Like

978
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 1: I liked that they were showing things that had to

979
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: do with female pleasure and not in a shameful way

980
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: that we're like, you know, this is like these are

981
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: tools you know, that you can all use to like

982
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: make each other feel good that aren't just about the

983
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: man coming. Like in that part, I was like, Okay,

984
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 1: that's to me evidence of women are behind this story

985
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:16,879
Speaker 1: in this movie because there's this, I think there's much

986
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: of an emphasis on her pleasure experiencing pleasure from this

987
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 1: type of relationship as there is for him experience. You

988
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,760
Speaker 1: don't even see him really yeah, he it's all about

989
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 1: him making her feel good, and like you know, now

990
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: the question is like what makes her feel good makes

991
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 1: him feel good? And then those lines you know, pushing

992
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: boundaries and all those things shades great you know there.

993
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, this is this Like this movie like

994
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: opened such an intense, like polarizing dialect. But I think, yeah,

995
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: I can't imagine the subject of consent being dealt with,

996
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: I think pretty universally well without this many women involved,

997
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,359
Speaker 1: like involved in high roles. Well, to me, there are

998
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: three ma takeaways from this movie that are very positive.

999
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: One is the emphasis on female pleasure and it being

1000
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,240
Speaker 1: framed is a thing that not only exists because most

1001
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: media ignores it all together, but it's also something that

1002
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: is important and it should be strived for. The second

1003
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: thing is female nudity and it making sense for the

1004
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: context of the story, because so many movies will have

1005
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: a naked woman or you see a woman's breast and

1006
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with the story. Like an

1007
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 1: example that comes to mind is like in die Hard,

1008
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: there's this like a topless woman who had been having

1009
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,439
Speaker 1: sex in a room during the Christmas party and then

1010
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 1: like the terrorists coming and paying her out. But it's like,

1011
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: why is that in the movie? Has nothing to do

1012
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: with the story? Is just it was an excuse to

1013
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: put it right? At least in this movie, we do

1014
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: see a lot of female nudity, but it makes sense

1015
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,439
Speaker 1: because this is what the story is about. It's about sex. Yeah,

1016
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,280
Speaker 1: you would be really, it would just make no sense

1017
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,240
Speaker 1: to not show it or to try to Dakota Johnson,

1018
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,720
Speaker 1: I mean give it up for her for like truly

1019
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: being so naked for so long in all three of

1020
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,240
Speaker 1: those movies. I mean, it's a choice she made, and

1021
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: I think she comes out on top in my opinion. Like,

1022
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: think about all the different ways women are naked in movies,

1023
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: and at least, at least in these movies, it's because

1024
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: she's like getting hers you know, right, Well, yeah, most

1025
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: movies it's just absolutely no reason, and it's through a

1026
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: very male gaze and very objectifying. You know, that's not

1027
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 1: the way we want to see things. The third thing

1028
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 1: that I think is a great takeaway from this movie,

1029
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: which we've already talked about, is the emphasis on consent.

1030
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 1: It gets talked about a lot in most movies. Don't

1031
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: even mention the word or even acknowledge it as it

1032
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: being a concept. Um as we Yeah, like Jamie, you

1033
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: said there's a surprise kiss, and every other movie that

1034
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: we talked about's no surprise kiss in this movie. Kiss

1035
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 1: is a few lines that I wrote down him saying,

1036
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:56,720
Speaker 1: it's important to know that you can leave in any time.

1037
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: I do this with women, women who want me to. Um. Yeah,

1038
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: we have to be honest with each other for this

1039
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: to work. I won't do anything until I have your

1040
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:09,839
Speaker 1: written consent. Like it, and it doesn't, I don't come.

1041
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 1: I was worried when it first came out that it

1042
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: was going to be all about people are gonna think

1043
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: this is what women, like an everyday woman who's you know,

1044
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: dudes are going to think that they can just but

1045
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: it wasn't portrayed that way at all. You know, I've

1046
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: had my own experiences of like dudes doing things without

1047
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: even asking first, and it's just like, oh, my dear god,

1048
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: why did you think that that was acceptable, like in

1049
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: any universe, you know, And there's all this, you know,

1050
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: the z S story I think is interesting and that

1051
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: it brought up all these questions about consent and like

1052
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: that twofold one is like what is porn doing that

1053
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: people are watching this porn that's really really pretty borderline

1054
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: violent and like a lot of choking and like I

1055
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: would call it skull fucking. Like we're like a guy

1056
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 1: is just literally fucking a girl's head and you know,

1057
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: she looks like she's dying in it, and you're and

1058
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: that's what people are watching, and like they're becoming desensitized

1059
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 1: to more vanilla stuff and wanting this more taboo stuff

1060
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 1: and they go and hook up with somebody and there's

1061
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: a different perhaps perception, like I don't watch porn. I

1062
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: can't watch it because I can't stop thinking about the

1063
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: production and I can't get into it because I'm just like,

1064
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 1: where's the Like, God, who's I even do that a

1065
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: little with like even with fifty shades, I'd be like,

1066
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 1: oh man, how many times do they have to take

1067
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: that part? Like like good, how awkward was that? Like

1068
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: let's just talk about there. That could just be a

1069
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: symptom of being in the business and thinking about shoots

1070
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: and things like, but porn just doesn't do it for me.

1071
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: I also think there should be like a disclaimer on

1072
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: every porn video that's just like, please do not try

1073
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: this at home, truly, but like unless you have your partners.

1074
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: It's like Jackassida and I've seen a little bit of porn,

1075
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: and I've seen stuff that like more recent stuff like

1076
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: I watched a couple of James videos and I was

1077
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: really disturbed. And people are like, oh, he's the feminist one.

1078
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: This is before he had his like outing as a

1079
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: g and I was like kind of shocked. I was like, Oh,

1080
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: this is what people are into. And you know, I've

1081
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: seen it. I mean I've worked on shows where they

1082
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: like pull up porn on you know, for some for

1083
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 1: reasire for something that's questionable, m and you know you

1084
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: have seen stuff, and I thought, oh my god, like

1085
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 1: my perception of what is acceptable is so far off

1086
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: of like, so when when you enter into a hook

1087
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: up with somebody, even if you think you know that person,

1088
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: like you don't know what they've been watching. And I

1089
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: just wondered, like, what is porn doing to young men?

1090
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: And then the second piece of the disease thing that,

1091
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 1: like I thought about while watching fifty Shades all the

1092
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: way through again was Christian Greg like you said, clearly

1093
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 1: cares about her feelings at every step of the way.

1094
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: Now we can argue there's points where it's like, oh,

1095
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 1: he completely just dismissed her signal of like hey, I

1096
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 1: don't want you showing up at my work, um, and

1097
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: he's like I will, Um. There's those kinds of things,

1098
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: But sexually, he is very concerned about her feelings and

1099
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: that was my thing of like, no matter how you

1100
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 1: read these story, you can't deny the fact that he

1101
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: did not care about her feelings in that. And at

1102
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: what point people when people go, oh, technically, I didn't

1103
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: see any laws broken, And it's like that every time

1104
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: sex do not at one point do you give a

1105
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: shit about the other person and like check in with them, Hey,

1106
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: is this here's the whole I saw a tweet that

1107
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: was like the whole Like she was just like it

1108
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: was just like sucking a dead body, Like she just

1109
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: laid there. And it's like maybe she didn't like it

1110
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 1: and ignored that. And he's like saying, anything, Yeah, I

1111
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: my one thing that I mean, we've we've touched on it,

1112
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: this whole, this whole thing that the main thing for

1113
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 1: me is just like making sure and this probably this

1114
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: probably doesn't happen for like someone who is like a

1115
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: mom who's coming into this all of us for the

1116
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: first time. Is making sure that it's it's okay to

1117
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: have an abusive relationship depicted on screen. Right. But but

1118
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: they do not do a good job of separating what

1119
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: is a b D s M behavior from what is

1120
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 1: an abusive behavior. It's lumped in as all the same thing.

1121
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: So the things that we see over and over are

1122
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: the stalking behaviors that's not kinky. Stalking someone isn't kinky.

1123
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: Showing up at their mom's place is not kink unless

1124
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: that's something they've previously agreed upon, which which controlling someone's

1125
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: actions without their consent is not kinky. Baiting someone with

1126
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 1: sort of genuine but mostly not genuine intimacy just because

1127
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: you know that that will keep them coming back without

1128
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: their consent is not kinky. And that is it's also

1129
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 1: globbed up into the one character who's interested in b

1130
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: d S. I'm in the entire movie that those lines

1131
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 1: aren't drawn, and I like it sucks because it's like

1132
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: there are They're way more positive takeaways from this movie

1133
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: than I ever would have imagined. And I really and

1134
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 1: and for all, and I have like a shortlist of

1135
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: all the ways that this movie is exactly like Twilight,

1136
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 1: down to like girl interested in books, never sex before

1137
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: like which is And she trips sometimes because she's clumsy,

1138
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 1: but I but I like, I like and staged up

1139
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: and saved. Yeah, but I like Anastasia. She's like she's

1140
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 1: like her better than Bella Swan. Yeah, I just I mean,

1141
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: but she's like, I've older, less of an annoying teenager.

1142
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: I understand, Like, you know, she she's like, you know, whatever,

1143
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 1: woman in her early twenties who doesn't know that much.

1144
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: But she is a more active character than I thought

1145
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 1: she was going to be advocates for herself more than

1146
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 1: I thought she would, calls him out more than I

1147
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: thought she would, and ultimately sets the boundary is like,

1148
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 1: you know, off for now. So I just I wish

1149
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 1: that this movie, for all the good stuff it does

1150
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: with like consent and bringing a relationship like this into

1151
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 1: the mainstream, it doesn't do a good job with saying like, Okay,

1152
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 1: this is how this B D s M relationship works,

1153
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: but don't think that in the second and third. By

1154
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: the third they've kind of moved away from is it

1155
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:22,919
Speaker 1: a B D s M relationship? Is it not? They've

1156
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: kind of moved away from that, and they're into there's

1157
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: other like very maladramatic stuff happening. Um, that's like more

1158
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: outside factors are now affecting their lives, like you know,

1159
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: like stalkers and the voltri real enemies. Yeah, definitely, like

1160
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: there's Yeah, I found myself at moments during the third

1161
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: movie being like, oh man, I really rich a rich man,

1162
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 1: which just come take me away. Well, that's the other

1163
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: thing is portraying B D s M. Is this very

1164
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 1: cosmopolitan rich boy thing too. Yeah, which I thought was

1165
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: kind of funny. Is just like I'm into kinky stuff

1166
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 1: and me have a helicopter and now you get a car,

1167
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: and I wrote down, I want a sex laptop. Where

1168
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: is my sex laptop? Get me my free sex laptop.

1169
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 1: At one point during the third movie, they get into

1170
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: a private jet and she's like, you own this, and

1171
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, bitch, have you not paid a vehicles ever?

1172
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: It's only been eight weeks, so just like, yeah, we're

1173
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:24,919
Speaker 1: seeing there like Halo period. But as someone who grew

1174
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 1: up secretly watching Real Sex on HBO late at night

1175
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: as quiet as I could while still hearing it, I

1176
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: already knew going into this movie that kink has nothing

1177
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 1: to do with class or attractiveness, because Real Sex featured

1178
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 1: some very everyday, average looking people doing very kinky stuff

1179
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 1: and to the point where it was like kind of hilarious. Anyway,

1180
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: I love real sex and that's where I got my

1181
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 1: education about sex. Can I run down the ways in

1182
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 1: which E. L. James lifts directly from Twilight? In the

1183
01:04:55,920 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: first movie Alan Okay, so protagonist girl who read rigin,

1184
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: there is a character who's like the boy who's around

1185
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: who has a crush on her, who is like, wait,

1186
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: you don't have a crush on me? Back I'm furious,

1187
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: and then he gets hit shitty mom who doesn't show

1188
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 1: up to important life events because of her most recent husband,

1189
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 1: which we see in Twilight with Bella's mom and her

1190
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 1: baseball boyfriend that she's like, sorry, Hun, can't make your

1191
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,960
Speaker 1: high school graduation. My boyfriend's in the batting cage, and

1192
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to seem unsupportive. And then yeah, mom,

1193
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 1: mom being such a romantic that she's basically handicapped at

1194
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: being a good parent. Oh even though the very hot,

1195
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: intelligent female protagonist, she's a little bit quiet, but somehow

1196
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: every man that comes into contact with her, in love

1197
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 1: with her, obsessed with her, can't get over it. It's

1198
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: just something special, right, There's just something about you. And

1199
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 1: it's like she has not said she's read a book.

1200
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: The piano scene, literally the pianos scene, same exact thing

1201
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: as Twilight, wait till the third movie scene. That's like

1202
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 1: what the funk? Like we didn't know the whole time. Oh,

1203
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: and then the weirdly close wealthy family dynamic that who

1204
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 1: with the family It was like, oh, this is kind

1205
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: of like Edward Collins very close, creepy, so close, it's

1206
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 1: creepy family where Marcia gay Harden's like this, what's this?

1207
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: Also shout out Marcia Gyard really enjoyed her presence in this,

1208
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: and she knows exactly what movie she's in. It's so

1209
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: good and Pacific Northwest. They're like, let's not relocate it.

1210
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, if there was any doubt that you were

1211
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 1: shut out to your favorite movie, don't. If there are

1212
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: any doubt two thousand and eight and actor's film John

1213
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 1: Patrick Shanley that this was based on Twilight originally. I

1214
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: mean the flags are everywhere. Replace vampires with kink because

1215
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 1: Edward Callings a fucking stalker to exactly the only other

1216
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 1: we haven't. We've mentioned her once, but I don't even

1217
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 1: know if we measure my name. The other female character

1218
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: in her roommate, Kate Takes Yeah, Kate. Weird Kate. There's

1219
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 1: a very uncanny Valley quality about Kate because she's there

1220
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 1: to ask questions. Very weird b story about Kate and

1221
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: the third movie that's like this wasn't necessary at all.

1222
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 1: Kate hangs out, she sticks around well because she's she's

1223
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 1: sucking his brother. The brother is like, ye, just a

1224
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 1: du fist, Like he's like like Combaine Mountain, like in

1225
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 1: the first movie, like where they're like the brunette couple

1226
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,160
Speaker 1: is like the smart ones, and then the blonde ones

1227
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: are like they just walk in on them fucking and

1228
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, put your pants on, blonde people. The

1229
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: brunette It's like, what is happening. This is another example

1230
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 1: of a movie that where the romantic relationship it's not

1231
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: necessarily ever really clear why the two characters like each

1232
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 1: other or why I setting the whole the b DA

1233
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 1: something completely aside the person of the shape of water

1234
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 1: that yeah, she gives them an egg and now they're

1235
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:19,680
Speaker 1: in love, carrying around any given time making people fall

1236
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 1: in love with me. But yeah, I mean so many

1237
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 1: movies do not handle this well where we actually see

1238
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 1: what the two characters are compatible over and why. I'm

1239
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 1: so so sorry that was a debt collector. Yeah, so,

1240
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 1: I just I just don't know why it's so hard

1241
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:39,360
Speaker 1: for movies about romance to actually depict romance well in

1242
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: a way we're like, oh, we understand why Anastasia would

1243
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:44,639
Speaker 1: like Christian, and why Christian The only reason that's given

1244
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 1: is like Christians just like I can't stay away from you,

1245
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 1: and I guess she likes him because he's rich, like

1246
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. There was one line where he and

1247
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 1: this is at the very beginning where he was just

1248
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: like he knew what like the name of three books,

1249
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 1: and you could tell she was impressed by that. I'm like, oh,

1250
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: this is hag but I get there. She's like bare minimum.

1251
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 1: Oh no, I totally agree. I just I'm like, they

1252
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 1: tried exactly one time, but I noticed that just like,

1253
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:18,799
Speaker 1: oh yeah, also I can read and she's likesten Bronte. Yeah. Anyway,

1254
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: I will say that I'm pretty sure this movie passes

1255
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:25,600
Speaker 1: the back to test and its first spoken words. In

1256
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 1: the very first scene of the first movie, they're talking

1257
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:31,600
Speaker 1: in a way. They're talking about Christian Greg because it

1258
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 1: has to do with the fact that she's leaving to

1259
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: go interview him. He has not explicitly stated. So the

1260
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 1: very first scene they're just talking about, like, you know,

1261
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 1: good luck. Is that what you're wearing? Are you take

1262
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 1: my car? I have a GPS, like, yeah, they don't.

1263
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 1: They're talking about like her. But I think that the

1264
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 1: interview with him, but that he does not actually get stated,

1265
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,679
Speaker 1: so I would guess that it. I think that scene

1266
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,679
Speaker 1: passes even though the context of the conversation is about

1267
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 1: interviewing a man. However, yeah, I would Most of the

1268
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 1: scenes after of that are either Annestatian Kate or Anastasia

1269
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 1: talks to his mom very briefly a few times, but

1270
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 1: usually most of the conversations are about Christian Gray. I

1271
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 1: was genuinely, I like, I yelped. I was like, did

1272
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:17,639
Speaker 1: this movie just pass a minute? One can't believe it there,

1273
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 1: but yeah, Kate quickly just becomes a little like how

1274
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: do you feel? Listening to the way that Kate addresses

1275
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 1: her not being a virgin anymore is very bizarre, where

1276
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 1: she was like, how do you feel? And I goes,

1277
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 1: I feel different and she's like, yeah you do. I

1278
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 1: was like, oh, that's the end of the conversation. Great, cool,

1279
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:39,880
Speaker 1: and then analogs into her sex laptop and answers sex

1280
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 1: emails that her sex boyfriend is sex harassing her with

1281
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 1: lots of harassing emails in this movie. Yeah, shall we

1282
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 1: rate the movie on our nipple scale? Let's do it

1283
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 1: all right, based on the portrayals Lemon, we have a

1284
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 1: nipple scale of zero to five, nipples five being the best. Okay,

1285
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to just sort of talk through this

1286
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 1: one because, like I said, there are a few major

1287
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 1: things that I think the movie does really well, and

1288
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 1: that it promotes consent as being a very important thing.

1289
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 1: Female nudity is not gratuitous and actually makes sense in

1290
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:13,799
Speaker 1: the context of the story for once, and female pleasure

1291
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 1: is framed as something that is good and that that's

1292
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:22,480
Speaker 1: something that you should strive for. However, the romantic relationship,

1293
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 1: if you can um call it that, because he's so

1294
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 1: reluctant to say that he need I don't do romance.

1295
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 1: I fuck hard, I don't make love. I fuck hard.

1296
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:42,519
Speaker 1: That was a big moment in Miami. For all intents

1297
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: of persons, We'll call it a romantic relationship because it is,

1298
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 1: like you said, Jamie, him being abusive and predatory is

1299
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 1: lumped in with the B D s M aspect of

1300
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 1: their relationship and not separated as those two things should be,

1301
01:11:56,760 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 1: and his predatory behavior not being framed as something thing

1302
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 1: that's problematic in the movie. It almost kind of cancels

1303
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:06,719
Speaker 1: out the good things of it. It's weird. It's weird

1304
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 1: because and then also it's like, Okay, they don't separate

1305
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:12,879
Speaker 1: those behaviors, and then so as a result, the audience

1306
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 1: takeaway is that b DSM proclivity is a thing to

1307
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,600
Speaker 1: be cured and not just a part of someone that

1308
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 1: can be accepted, because it looks so dangerous the way

1309
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 1: it's presented in the movie. Right, So with that in mind,

1310
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:30,759
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to give it one nipple, okay,

1311
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 1: because for all of its positive things, I think those

1312
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 1: are immediately canceled out by the negative parts of the movie. So, um,

1313
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 1: one nipple. I will give it to Anastasia's bare nipple

1314
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,760
Speaker 1: that you've seen many many times. I'm going to give

1315
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:48,720
Speaker 1: it to. Okay. I thought maybe one was too low,

1316
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:52,120
Speaker 1: but I'm sticking with one follower. I'm gonna give it to.

1317
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 1: And I do feel like if I saw three movies,

1318
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 1: I might feel a little bit different, but based on

1319
01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 1: the first movie alone, I'm going to give it too.

1320
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:01,720
Speaker 1: I wish just in general, I mean, it's a movie

1321
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 1: a better relationship between two people. I wish that the

1322
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 1: female be characters were given more to do and more

1323
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 1: to contribute other than just asking Anastasia how she's feeling.

1324
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:16,080
Speaker 1: Because it's bad writing and also because we don't know

1325
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:19,120
Speaker 1: anything about them. So the way that b characters are treated,

1326
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 1: especially with the women was like pretty lazy, and I

1327
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:24,639
Speaker 1: feel like we could have gotten a lot more by

1328
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:28,559
Speaker 1: using them more. But Anna as a character, I do

1329
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 1: like her and I feel for her, and I think

1330
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:35,120
Speaker 1: she is disserviced in a lot of ways, primarily by

1331
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 1: how her partner represents all things kink and how consent

1332
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: is dealt with well. So much is not dealt with well.

1333
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 1: But based on our central female protagonist, I like her.

1334
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 1: I feel for her. I was like excited and like

1335
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 1: rooted for her when she got horrors, recognized where her

1336
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:58,880
Speaker 1: boundary was and was like, I'm out. But then I

1337
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: mean there's again. Whenever we do a story that's like,

1338
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:04,879
Speaker 1: this story is badly written, it's a it's a challenge

1339
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 1: from moment one, but I'll get I will give this too.

1340
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 1: I'll give one to Anna, and I'm gonna give one

1341
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 1: to Marcia gay Harden because she's a woman in stem

1342
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:16,679
Speaker 1: she's a doctor. She's a doctor. I'll give it too.

1343
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:20,759
Speaker 1: I wish I could give it less because I wish

1344
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:25,480
Speaker 1: the bar was higher, right, but we're just so desperate

1345
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 1: for like anything that's not created by a man, written

1346
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: by men. You know, like this does feel different and

1347
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 1: it's like I can see a little bit of the

1348
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:40,840
Speaker 1: light cracking through the you know the brock. Yeah, on

1349
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:44,200
Speaker 1: the right track, a good start. Let's get a better

1350
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:53,360
Speaker 1: written story, let's better acting, more complex story. Show is

1351
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 1: more kinky Seattle stories. Fraser like movies that celebrate women's sexuality,

1352
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 1: like Magic Mike and like, you know, they're just it's

1353
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,640
Speaker 1: fun to go see those movies. And I agree that,

1354
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 1: like women should be able to go see movies like this, Twilight,

1355
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:08,759
Speaker 1: you know whatever. I mean, the most fun I've ever

1356
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:11,559
Speaker 1: had in movie theaters are those types of movies. Like

1357
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 1: I went to Twilight the first one, tears were streaming

1358
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 1: down my face. I was laughing so fucking hard because

1359
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:21,519
Speaker 1: the women in the audience were going nuts teen girls.

1360
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: I mean every time when like um, Taylor Lawtner came

1361
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 1: on the screen, they were like like and I was

1362
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god. It was like women were

1363
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 1: just like in their in their element. Like it was

1364
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: like we were having like a witch, you know, gathering

1365
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 1: the wood. So great. Yeah. And then the other one was, um,

1366
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: I went to see a Magic Mike screening that was

1367
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:43,280
Speaker 1: so fun that like it was Magic Mike too, and

1368
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,040
Speaker 1: it was just like everyone was dying laughing throughout the

1369
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 1: whole movie. It was so fun. And then the other one,

1370
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,759
Speaker 1: which I'll never forget, was I went to the opening

1371
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:53,840
Speaker 1: night in New York of He's Just Not That Into You,

1372
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 1: and it was almost all women in the audience and

1373
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 1: like everyone had brought wine, like snuck in wine. I mean,

1374
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,840
Speaker 1: who were like wasted, And it was like so fucking

1375
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:05,160
Speaker 1: funny because there was one moment where that would be

1376
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 1: a good one for you all to do, if you

1377
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:08,800
Speaker 1: haven't already haven't. No, I remember I saw that after

1378
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 1: my first He's Just It's I loved the movie, but

1379
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 1: I've never hated another book more in my entire life.

1380
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 1: I think I hate, Yeah, I hate the idea of it.

1381
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:22,600
Speaker 1: But the movie was very entertaining, It was very and

1382
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:24,080
Speaker 1: it was really fun to be in a movie theater.

1383
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 1: But but there's a moment in a movie that's like

1384
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 1: the big dramatic, like proposal moment, and no joke, you

1385
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 1: could hear this ripple across the theater where it was

1386
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 1: dead quiet and then just a sort of wave of

1387
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 1: laugher because every woman was crying, and then it was

1388
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,639
Speaker 1: like you're crying, No, you're crying, and everyone started sucking

1389
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 1: laughing and it was so funny. It was just like

1390
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,559
Speaker 1: it's like there's just not that many movies where it's

1391
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,400
Speaker 1: like women, where centers women in a way that like

1392
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: and we are like a force like Twilight. These are juggernauts.

1393
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: They made so much money, but they were treated like

1394
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 1: a second fiddle to be a fair horrible superhero movies

1395
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 1: that are just absolute ship. What do you mean? Justice

1396
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 1: League was great? There's there, Yeah, there's so there are

1397
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 1: so few places where like groups of women from all

1398
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 1: different all different walks of life you can just like

1399
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 1: get into the same room and have like a weird,

1400
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 1: silly good time. And so I never want to be

1401
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,040
Speaker 1: like fifty Shades of Grade shouldn't exist, Like it's got

1402
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:26,639
Speaker 1: a ton of problems, but I'm thrilled it exist because

1403
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 1: it gives you, like that good cathartic experience that it's

1404
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 1: super hard to find anywhere except the movie. Worth mentioning,

1405
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 1: this is a very white movie. This is a very

1406
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 1: hetero movie. Yes, a lot of straight these a lot

1407
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 1: of white people, as with most movies, which is no excuse,

1408
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 1: but you know follows the trend absolutely well. Sarah is

1409
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:55,880
Speaker 1: so much for being here right with us. Where can

1410
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:58,160
Speaker 1: people follow you? What would you like to play? Follow

1411
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 1: me on Twitter, Instagram, Sara Shape for one across the board.

1412
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: And I have this new podcast which I'm really excited about,

1413
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:06,040
Speaker 1: which is sort of weird and it's like Me and

1414
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 1: the Future commenting on right now. It's got like a

1415
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 1: fictional element to it of fantasy dystopian thing going on,

1416
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 1: plus real topical discussion. Um and what's the name of

1417
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:20,320
Speaker 1: your podcasting It's called Loner at coy Wolf Creek being

1418
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 1: like a combination of species of already exists. There's a

1419
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:28,639
Speaker 1: new species of animal where some cut kyotes and wolves

1420
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 1: and dogs a little bit of dog in their dogs. Yes,

1421
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 1: Christian gray wolf. Okay, oh, there's already a wolf thing.

1422
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:43,839
Speaker 1: It's Twilight Taylor Lautner. Hey. You can follow the backtel

1423
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:48,120
Speaker 1: Cast on all the social media platforms Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.

1424
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 1: You can write and review us on iTunes. You can

1425
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:53,599
Speaker 1: buy our merch online what oh my gosh. You can

1426
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 1: also subscribe to our Patreon give us five dollars a

1427
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,680
Speaker 1: month and then you get to bonus episodes of the

1428
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 1: backtel Cast every month. It's a win win win, win

1429
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:04,200
Speaker 1: win win. And other than that, I just want everyone

1430
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:08,120
Speaker 1: to know that I fuck hard. I fu hard to

1431
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 1: see you in the playroom. That was like you might

1432
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: not if you have to say it, I actually fuck

1433
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 1: very soft. Sounds good. Thank you, but a T shirt. Okay,

1434
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 1: bye bye