Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, Hey, what's up? And welcome to Let's Red
Speaker 1: Table that I'm Tracy t Row and I'm Carl Pressley.
Speaker 1: How are you feeling the day, Tracy? You know I'm
Speaker 1: feeling every day amazing, and I know you're feeling successful, successful,
Speaker 1: any other way to be Ben Well, I'm telling you
Speaker 1: you know, this episode was also just absolutely amazingly successful.
Speaker 1: They had the opportunity to talk about toxic forgiveness. Now,
Speaker 1: first of all, I didn't even know that was a thing,
Speaker 1: did you come, didn't know de term at all. I
Speaker 1: had no idea what was going on. But after watching
Speaker 1: an episode, it made me start thinking about even toxic optimism.
Speaker 1: So I mean, clearly you can have too much anything minute.
Speaker 1: I am that friend who's like, oh you're sad, let's
Speaker 1: get over it. And I just I had to remember
Speaker 1: sometimes people need to just feel it. Me feel yea,
Speaker 1: and maybe I need to just sit in it and feel.
Speaker 1: So you know about that talking about that needing to
Speaker 1: just ner and sit in and work through your feeling.
Speaker 1: And whether it's grief or happiness or sadness, we like
Speaker 1: sitting in happiness and we're constantly looking for the happiness,
Speaker 1: right but when grief comes up, sometimes you gotta deal
Speaker 1: and sometimes you allow yourself to believe something that isn't
Speaker 1: true in pursuit of being happy. Hello, come on, I
Speaker 1: think that was part of what we saw in this episode, Karen.
Speaker 1: I have some scenarios of our own where we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about if we will forgive or not right,
Speaker 1: and we obviously want you to join in on the conversation.
Speaker 1: So send us an email at let's red table that's
Speaker 1: at red table talk dot com and let us know
Speaker 1: if you agree or disagree with us. All right, come on,
Speaker 1: let's get it, Tracy. Would you forgive a sibling that
Speaker 1: sleeps with a partner on your wedding day? Okay? So now,
Speaker 1: I just I can't wait to get this. This is
Speaker 1: the wait. What if my sibling sleeps with my partner
Speaker 1: on my wedding day? It's a big bat hell to
Speaker 1: the note. I'm not I'm not forgiving that. I'm not
Speaker 1: forgetting that. So now would you forgive? It's a no,
Speaker 1: it's a note for me. It was the wedding day
Speaker 1: for me because didn't we pay for this? I just
Speaker 1: I can't he's going on the honeymoon now, I mean
Speaker 1: all right. Now, the next question. Your child gets expelled
Speaker 1: from college, pretends to still be in school, and you
Speaker 1: find out on the day they're supposed to graduate. Okay,
Speaker 1: let me say something to you. It's the audacity for me, real,
Speaker 1: real clear. There are two parts of this, and it
Speaker 1: all depends on the funding. If I have been funding
Speaker 1: your education and you have been lying saying that you're
Speaker 1: in school and you are not, and then you have
Speaker 1: lied and say that you're graduating and you're not, that
Speaker 1: is going to be a major problem for me. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to ultimately be able to forgive it, but
Speaker 1: it would be see it for me to forgive it.
Speaker 1: If to you funded your own process and you dropped
Speaker 1: out on your own dime, then sure that's your life.
Speaker 1: You do you bo I definitely understand that perspective. You
Speaker 1: know on this one. I'm gonna forgive. I can forgive.
Speaker 1: I told my son when he graduated high school. Listen, well,
Speaker 1: I'm having a cookout in Juil, so you're gonna be
Speaker 1: a guest or a graduate. But I'm eating a hot
Speaker 1: dog and a Hamburger, So I can forgive, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna still celebrate and go out to eat because it's
Speaker 1: your journey. So create the life that you want. You're
Speaker 1: gonna have a hot operational plate. Whether he had high vibration,
Speaker 1: come on that right, because he got a low vibrational
Speaker 1: situation going on, and that's his business. And now the
Speaker 1: last one. Your parents has had a secret family. Oh
Speaker 1: this happens all the time. Your parent has had a
Speaker 1: secret family and you don't find out until you're an adult.
Speaker 1: It's a tough one. How many funerals are we talking about? Listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna put my whole family's business out there,
Speaker 1: but I definitely have experienced this, and I definitely would forgive.
Speaker 1: But I will say it is hard to look around
Speaker 1: that people at the reunion, like y'all had all this
Speaker 1: going on. I'm just gonna say that, Okay, in this case,
Speaker 1: the family is something that is truly a treasure and
Speaker 1: a gift, and I would forgive. Although I would have
Speaker 1: a lot of questions, I didn't have a lot of questions.
Speaker 1: I wanted all of them. I want the answers and
Speaker 1: I need all the information. Just sit at the table
Speaker 1: and just be ready, open yourself up, and just answer it. Now.
Speaker 1: The question I want to know from y'all is what
Speaker 1: would you do? And then this is real deal. So
Speaker 1: I know some of you all have just found your
Speaker 1: sister and brothers and uncles and cousin. So send us
Speaker 1: an email at Let's Red Table that a red Table
Speaker 1: talk dot com. We can't wait to hear the responses
Speaker 1: or listen. I think this would be great. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and put out there a good speak
Speaker 1: pipe send us a voice memo and tell us yes,
Speaker 1: ma'am or no, sir, I cannot do or I would
Speaker 1: definitely forgive you know what. That's right, okay? And so
Speaker 1: our speak pipe is speakpipe dot com slash Let's red
Speaker 1: Table that we're gonna get that. That's what we're gonna
Speaker 1: get that. We're going to take a quick break, but
Speaker 1: when we get back, we'll be joined by two incredible
Speaker 1: guests from our Red Table Talk community. All right, we're
Speaker 1: bringing two fellow our t T community members to the
Speaker 1: Virtual Red Table today. I am way excited. Carl Anthony
Speaker 1: Thompson is joining the Virtual Red Table from North Carolina,
Speaker 1: and he's here to share about his emotionally and physically
Speaker 1: abusive relationship with his parents, including how he's able to
Speaker 1: forgive his mom and why his dad has not earned
Speaker 1: his forgiveness. Anthony, thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 1: and sharing your story with us. No, thank you, thank
Speaker 1: you for giving me the opportunity to come and share.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Yes, we appreciate you. And our second
Speaker 1: guest has been on our podcast before. Katie is a
Speaker 1: licensed marriage and family therapist, YouTube creator, author, speaker, and
Speaker 1: a passionate psycho education facilitates her. Okay, love all the
Speaker 1: titles and the titles for me. But she first shared
Speaker 1: her expertise as our mental health expert for our very
Speaker 1: first mental health moment, And now Katie's joining us for
Speaker 1: a full episode because we need it and we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about toxic forgiveness. So welcome Katie. How are you.
Speaker 1: I'm good. It's great to be backing. So good to
Speaker 1: see you, Katie. So glad to have you with us
Speaker 1: at the virtual Red Table. Alright, guys, so this is
Speaker 1: the part of the show where we reveal which moments
Speaker 1: made us pause, rewe listen again and say what's wait? Wait,
Speaker 1: stop altogether Okay, so many moments, just like Red Table
Speaker 1: Talk has been delivering off season. It's another heavy episode,
Speaker 1: but necessary episode. We're gonna try to bring some life
Speaker 1: to this, but let's get into it. I'm gonna kick
Speaker 1: it off. What about Jada talking about her and re
Speaker 1: sharing a journal. We had a journal that we would
Speaker 1: send back to one another. Oh right, just kind of
Speaker 1: expressing things to one another that might not have been
Speaker 1: easy to talk about face to face. Yeah. I actually
Speaker 1: loved this piece of the episode. What did you guys think?
Speaker 1: I thought it was great too. I just like the
Speaker 1: fact that they have this sisterhood and they're so comfortable
Speaker 1: talking about it. But I know it was pretty rough,
Speaker 1: and I thought the idea was really creative to be
Speaker 1: able to say, let me get out how I feel
Speaker 1: so that we can still communicate and then be able
Speaker 1: to develop what we need to do for Tray because
Speaker 1: that was the focus. And I love that. Yeah, putting
Speaker 1: the kids first, it's got to be hard when there's
Speaker 1: so much emotion involved. And I really appreciated the fact
Speaker 1: that they both were willing to work on it, and
Speaker 1: they both admitted I think right up front. When I
Speaker 1: was listening to this, I was like, Oh, they just
Speaker 1: jumped right in, like right up front there, like we
Speaker 1: had trouble, and I overstepped, and I overstepped, and this
Speaker 1: is what I did, and the other people are like,
Speaker 1: you did right, wait right, wait, yeah, But in the moment,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of emotion at play, and I really
Speaker 1: appreciate the fact they were able to kind of step
Speaker 1: aside and put the kids first, which I mean, it's nice.
Speaker 1: It's hard to get out of your own way. And
Speaker 1: I was so impressed. Oh no, I loved that is
Speaker 1: the absolute truth, Katie. That is so true. We often
Speaker 1: talk about different vehicles for communication, right, what's the best
Speaker 1: thing that works for us? And number one, I liked
Speaker 1: that they both realized, they comprehended that family was the goal,
Speaker 1: the kid was the goal, the child was the goal,
Speaker 1: and they decided, this is our vehicle. We are going
Speaker 1: to use this journal to really help us get out
Speaker 1: the things that we need. I just thought it was
Speaker 1: so successful. I hope someone else incorporates it into their life.
Speaker 1: It reminded me sometimes when me and my son aren't
Speaker 1: saying out, we will text each other because you just
Speaker 1: sometimes you just don't want to hear that person's voice
Speaker 1: in the moment. So I love it, And don't you
Speaker 1: think like writing it down slows it down sometimes face
Speaker 1: to face because you can't take things back right then
Speaker 1: we're in another level of forgiveness. We already got this
Speaker 1: one beef going on and we're like layer and it's
Speaker 1: just too much. And I think sometimes when you have
Speaker 1: to write it and you look at the words, you
Speaker 1: can think twice before this is what I want to send,
Speaker 1: or this is what I really want to say. Another
Speaker 1: weight what moment was when Janna sharing that she forgave
Speaker 1: her husband for cheating the first time because she thought
Speaker 1: I cheated before and never forgave myself, So I'll forgive
Speaker 1: him as if forgiven him with give her healing. There
Speaker 1: were flags in the beginning he had cheated, you know,
Speaker 1: a month into dating. But I'm like, it's okay. I've
Speaker 1: cheated in past relationships and I didn't forgive myself for it,
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna forgive you. I can make this work.
Speaker 1: We can grow together and in the marriage too. Every
Speaker 1: time he cheated, first, second, third, however, many times like
Speaker 1: I like, I forgive you. Wait, what what have you
Speaker 1: ever felt like you had to forgive someone because you
Speaker 1: had the same mistake in the past. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I would say that I forgot save, but I
Speaker 1: probably would have had a little bit more grace in it,
Speaker 1: because forgiveness means I'm just going to throw it out
Speaker 1: the window and let it go. Now, I'll still be
Speaker 1: looking a little sideways, like I remember when you did
Speaker 1: that a couple of months ago. Now, don't don't act
Speaker 1: crazy now. But I don't know if I would say
Speaker 1: forgive that's a little bit more strong. Interesting. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: agree with we have more understanding when you know you've
Speaker 1: been there before. Yeah. I think the grace is a
Speaker 1: perfect word, Anthony. It's like you can see from that perspective,
Speaker 1: and so you might say, hey, it didn't mean anything
Speaker 1: to me. I'm sure it didn't mean anything to him,
Speaker 1: and you can make those kind of concessions or a
Speaker 1: different understanding which maybe could allow you to do that
Speaker 1: more easily. Okay, Now, I just want you to know
Speaker 1: whether I cheat it or not. If I cheat. If
Speaker 1: I cheat, it, shame on me. If you cheat on me,
Speaker 1: shame on you. And if you forgave me that, shame
Speaker 1: on you too. Because I'm not I'm not forgiving you.
Speaker 1: I'm not showing you grace. I'm done. It's wait, what
Speaker 1: really you said we don't do cheating around here. It's
Speaker 1: truly Wait what that part very adamant. It's a it's
Speaker 1: a zero tolerance policy over here. It is over here too.
Speaker 1: I definitely understand that though, Yeah, because he kept cheating.
Speaker 1: And the thing that was interesting to me about it
Speaker 1: when she said that, she said that he cheated the
Speaker 1: first month in right, and so he had been cheating, right,
Speaker 1: He had been cheating. He cheating. He was probably cheating
Speaker 1: the day they got married. Flaming red flag. I know,
Speaker 1: it's leave him before it's too serious, absolutely before a month.
Speaker 1: Then he can hold it down. I mean, so, I
Speaker 1: don't know if that was when she said that was
Speaker 1: the first time, but I mean he was like a
Speaker 1: serial cheater. Well that's the first time she caught him. Essentially,
Speaker 1: there it is, and that's what that is. When I
Speaker 1: think it was, Jada said to her, so he's cheated
Speaker 1: on you, like with twelve or thirteen, and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's a lot. Right. As soon as she said more more,
Speaker 1: I was like, lord, clutching pearls and everything clutched the pearls.
Speaker 1: Gather your things and get the f outs her heart.
Speaker 1: You know this. It reminded me, though, watching her. We
Speaker 1: want to hold on so bad, just a little bit
Speaker 1: of something for a fear of having nothing altogether. I mean,
Speaker 1: and I have done it before, not not like that
Speaker 1: we weren't married, of course, but you know, you just
Speaker 1: want something. She's had a whole idea. Clearly they've gone
Speaker 1: through a whole wedding and we can't stop now, why
Speaker 1: can't you? And she she was worried about her kids.
Speaker 1: Remember she said, I grew up in a broken home.
Speaker 1: And I think if we don't process our own trauma before,
Speaker 1: this is part. I know people don't like this, but
Speaker 1: to get into a relationship when you haven't worked through
Speaker 1: your own stuff first is very dangerous territory because we
Speaker 1: can repeat behaviors without realizing we're doing it because that's
Speaker 1: what's comfortable. And for her, that was the dream. The
Speaker 1: dream was we get married, live happily ever after, and
Speaker 1: come hell or high water. I'm holding onto that, even
Speaker 1: though by holding onto it she was like drowning herself.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like the same. It's one of my
Speaker 1: favorite quotes is you can't let yourself on fire to
Speaker 1: keep someone else warm. And it was like it was
Speaker 1: kind of that feeling that I got from it where
Speaker 1: it was like she's wounding herself to keep this thing
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist, and it's the one she wasn't on
Speaker 1: fire in other ways from all that cheating, I was wondering,
Speaker 1: but that part, I think she was just really holding
Speaker 1: onto who she thought he could be rather than who
Speaker 1: he really was. That was one of the biggest things
Speaker 1: that I noticed, and that was what I was feeling.
Speaker 1: I was like, Yeah, he's showing you who he is,
Speaker 1: but you're still trying to get him to be who
Speaker 1: he's showing you he can't be. That's a lot of
Speaker 1: the dream a lot of times a lot of people,
Speaker 1: and I'll do that. I'm guilty. I've done it too.
Speaker 1: And see the more excuses he had, the more excuses
Speaker 1: he had, the more time she was willing to forgive him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was interesting. I think it was Shari said at
Speaker 1: the beginning, using a man to define who she was.
Speaker 1: I think Janna set it up front and then they
Speaker 1: all said yeah, yeah, yeah, me too, me too. And
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we can get caught up like that
Speaker 1: where we think, hey, this relationship defines me. She said,
Speaker 1: I would put it out there. We've been public and
Speaker 1: we've been public about him getting better, and I think
Speaker 1: there was this maybe confusion around like work in real
Speaker 1: life and perception and reality. And I think she might
Speaker 1: have even not to say that this happened necessarily, but
Speaker 1: I wonder if she might even tricked herself. Right, you
Speaker 1: say it enough times you start to believe it. So
Speaker 1: my husband's gotten better, he's better, just recovered. He's doing this,
Speaker 1: and I think she kind of drank her own kool aid,
Speaker 1: and then it's just hard probably also not even probably,
Speaker 1: they're definitely making money off of this success right in
Speaker 1: their love life, which kind of takes us to the
Speaker 1: last weight. What moment Jana sharing that her ex husband's
Speaker 1: excuse for cheating with he says the podcast was a
Speaker 1: catalyst for more of his cheating because it made him
Speaker 1: feel like he always had the spotlight on him. So
Speaker 1: then I felt like it was my fault because if
Speaker 1: only we didn't have that podcast, he wouldn't have spot
Speaker 1: light is onto me, has to cheat. I'm confused, and
Speaker 1: he felt pressure to be this like perfect, and not
Speaker 1: if I wanted to be perfect, I don't think i'd
Speaker 1: be cheating. I'm just saying, so that's what it's kind
Speaker 1: of like the point where we're just making like maybe
Speaker 1: she was doing her work and clearly he had a
Speaker 1: false perception of his reality. Sir, you're married. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've forgot, but you're married. How did you
Speaker 1: guys feel about? Let me say this and then I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna move my non grace giving self out the way. Okay,
Speaker 1: how are you going to say? With the pocket? And
Speaker 1: I could just hear it like that in that Baby
Speaker 1: Baby and pease for baby Baby please. A podcast is
Speaker 1: just just it's serving like a catalyst. It's just making
Speaker 1: me feel like I gotta cheat even more because it
Speaker 1: just all we're talking about, like what they're throwing it
Speaker 1: at me? Get out of here, right helong war By.
Speaker 1: I think he was. I felt like he was out
Speaker 1: of excuses at this point. He was just grasping at
Speaker 1: anything because I'm like, it doesn't make any sense. I
Speaker 1: can understand him saying I do feel pressure to be
Speaker 1: the perfect husband and that's why I lash out or
Speaker 1: that's why I don't do this or that. But to
Speaker 1: say that them talking about their past and how hard
Speaker 1: it was and how you've worked through it, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what make that make sense? To me, I'm a very
Speaker 1: logical person. I don't see the logic and I don't
Speaker 1: even see the emotion in it. I don't understand. We're
Speaker 1: just being honest about what you actually want. You don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think you want a family, sir. I don't
Speaker 1: think that's not the traditional type of family and or
Speaker 1: why did you marry into it? But there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people out here trying to live the dream.
Speaker 1: That's really not your dream. You got to define your dream,
Speaker 1: I guess totally. Don't try to be something you're not
Speaker 1: what the expectation is and married with two point five
Speaker 1: kids in the pick ad fence idea, Yeah, that doesn't
Speaker 1: work right right two point five? What did you think
Speaker 1: about this episode? But for me, I thought it was
Speaker 1: a great episode. I love seeing Shari and Jada talk
Speaker 1: by like seeing that dynamic because it's so unheard of.
Speaker 1: It's almost like it's not real that it's really happening
Speaker 1: that Will's ex wife and current wife are having a
Speaker 1: conversation and they get along and they have family time together,
Speaker 1: and they built this substantial relationship that even started to
Speaker 1: exist outside of Trey. So I think that's awesome to see.
Speaker 1: But I gotta admit I had some emotional moments, especially
Speaker 1: when it got towards the end and Sharie had her
Speaker 1: emotional moment and she was talking about her and Trey
Speaker 1: and how Trey said to her that she didn't care
Speaker 1: about his feelings, and I identified with that so well,
Speaker 1: dealing with my situation with my mother growing up, where
Speaker 1: my mother was so focused on survival and she was
Speaker 1: taught that being a woman meant being strong, and what
Speaker 1: strong meant was being hard. And I started to literally
Speaker 1: see my mother and see my dynamic with my mother,
Speaker 1: to which I didn't have those kind of conversations with
Speaker 1: my mother until I was grown because I couldn't all
Speaker 1: those times. So that was the part that got me
Speaker 1: a little bit. I was like, wait, let me dab
Speaker 1: the corners of my eyes a little bit, because it's
Speaker 1: a real thing to have your parents not validate your
Speaker 1: feelings or understand your feelings or you have the open
Speaker 1: space to be able to share how you feel. And
Speaker 1: I went most of my childhood not being able to
Speaker 1: talk to my mother and my father about my feelings.
Speaker 1: So it got me a little emo when I was
Speaker 1: watching it. Yeah, No, there was a lot. There's so much.
Speaker 1: Anthony touched on a lot of the same things that
Speaker 1: they resonated with me as well, especially that I put
Speaker 1: in my notes toxic strength, because we're talking about toxic forgiveness,
Speaker 1: but the feeling or the belief in our society, and
Speaker 1: this applies to men and women that you have to
Speaker 1: buck up. This means being strong. I mean I was
Speaker 1: raised by a lot of stubborn, strong women, but that
Speaker 1: can also mean forgiving when you shouldn't and being a
Speaker 1: little bit too harsh on yourself on others. And I
Speaker 1: think sometimes we don't recognize that. And to that point,
Speaker 1: my next like kind of note was just like, we
Speaker 1: are so uncomfortable sometimes with anger, upset and dislike that
Speaker 1: we rushed to move past it. And when we're a parent,
Speaker 1: I think, and I'm not a parent, so I'm not
Speaker 1: pretending to know. I haven't birthed any babies, but if
Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortable with it, then I'm going to encourage them
Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable with it because I want them to
Speaker 1: move more quickly through it. And I can do that
Speaker 1: to my friends, to go to my husband, I can
Speaker 1: do that to people because I don't want to sit
Speaker 1: with it, and I think That's what really got me
Speaker 1: about this episode was just the ability to sit with
Speaker 1: the discomfort. And I think that's a muscle that, like,
Speaker 1: I know personally I need to work on, but I
Speaker 1: think everybody does, because forgiveness isn't acceptance, It isn't condoning behavior.
Speaker 1: Forgiveness is for you. And if you can't and I'm
Speaker 1: saying this to myself mostly I can't admit when thing
Speaker 1: are hurtful, and I can't communicate my upsets and and
Speaker 1: let somebody hear it, then how do I expect to
Speaker 1: process through it. I did love that they mentioned that
Speaker 1: it was like a process, not a choice, because forgiveness
Speaker 1: it's tricky, right, But I've always thought forgiveness, let's me
Speaker 1: off the hook because I don't need to keep thinking
Speaker 1: about this. That was what stuck out to me is
Speaker 1: we don't need to get it muddied. Forgiveness is not acceptance.
Speaker 1: Forgiveness is not condoning behavior, and forgiveness most importantly is
Speaker 1: not reconciliation. That's good And I liked when even Nedra
Speaker 1: said that forgiveness was about your emotional process as an individual,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I've never heard it in that way.
Speaker 1: I've heard people say many times that forgiveness is for you,
Speaker 1: but it's some kind of light bulb went off when
Speaker 1: she put it in those words in that form, and
Speaker 1: I was like, let me write this down. That was
Speaker 1: good to me and for me to be conscious of
Speaker 1: when I have to go into a place that possibly
Speaker 1: forgiving somebody for something that's the table. I feel like
Speaker 1: just the no understanding of different perspectives is helpful and
Speaker 1: for me personally in my relationship with my son. My
Speaker 1: son said the same thing to me the trade said
Speaker 1: to Shari, which was interesting because I just think it's
Speaker 1: just your household, right, You really truly think you're the
Speaker 1: only one going through Yeah, my son said, it feels
Speaker 1: like you don't care about my feelings. And when he
Speaker 1: gave his examples, I'm like, I need I need an example.
Speaker 1: Please help me. He was like, you just if I
Speaker 1: tell you there's an emergency going on, and it's like
Speaker 1: an emergency to him, it's not that much of an
Speaker 1: emergency to you. And I told him, I was like,
Speaker 1: I truly need you to understand. I am trying to process.
Speaker 1: What I need to do next is a mom are
Speaker 1: you bleeding? Are you about to die, or we need
Speaker 1: to go to the hospital where the insurance card. I'm
Speaker 1: literally going through so much in my mind. Somebody has
Speaker 1: to be calm. You're already screaming, So I just need
Speaker 1: you to know it's not that I don't care. That's
Speaker 1: how I process. Some people processed by screaming with you.
Speaker 1: They're on the floor bleeding with you. All of a sudden,
Speaker 1: soon as you say, that's just not how I work. Now,
Speaker 1: when you were too, that is how I was, and
Speaker 1: my anxiety got so heightened. Something had to change. So
Speaker 1: this show episodes like this conversation with people like you.
Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for coming on help me.
Speaker 1: Just to continually see time helps things. Your perspective can change,
Speaker 1: your understanding can change. But conversations have to be hit.
Speaker 1: So yeah, those conversations are important, Yes, so important. Red's
Speaker 1: Able Talk asked the community what is something that's unforgivable
Speaker 1: to you? And infidelity was at the top of the answers,
Speaker 1: So we know Tracy was already in that poll. We
Speaker 1: know her. How would you have answered this question? What
Speaker 1: is something that you all feel is unforgivable? I'm up
Speaker 1: there with the infidelity, and the infidelity was it for me,
Speaker 1: I'm with Tracy because I mean, I'm sure there's other
Speaker 1: things in my life, Like I don't like liars period.
Speaker 1: It's hard. I know the truth is hard, but I'd
Speaker 1: rather be hurt by the truth than hurt by a
Speaker 1: lie that I have to find out later, because then
Speaker 1: that erodes the foundation for me. But the infidelity, I
Speaker 1: feel like it's one big lie. It would get me
Speaker 1: feeling like my whole life was a lie, the whole
Speaker 1: relationships a lie. Everything you said, every love you, every kiss,
Speaker 1: every hug, it's a lie. And I feel like even
Speaker 1: saying it, I get myself worked up because I would
Speaker 1: feel like my whole life was coming unraveled like below,
Speaker 1: and I just don't that to me would be unforgivable.
Speaker 1: I know I couldn't move past it. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: like a burn his stuff in the law and change
Speaker 1: the locks, get out, Like I'm I'd go zero to
Speaker 1: a hungred you slugger to both head lights. I'm carrying
Speaker 1: underwood in a situation, right A Right, I love that.
Speaker 1: I think I kind of agree with that to it.
Speaker 1: For me, it's not really infidelity, right, Like I've been
Speaker 1: single for a while, so I look your relationships, just
Speaker 1: like holistically, so even just amongst friends, Like it's not
Speaker 1: so much cheating amongst friends. I just called it playing
Speaker 1: in my face altogether. Any type of manipulation or saying
Speaker 1: what you think you need to say to get me
Speaker 1: to go in the way you want me to go,
Speaker 1: there's a problem for me. I need you to be upfront.
Speaker 1: I need to know who you are as much as possible.
Speaker 1: Please be your transparent self because I am working every
Speaker 1: day to do that. So if you can't, you've got
Speaker 1: to go over there. And my Rose Island voice, yeah,
Speaker 1: please go over there and stay over there, over there
Speaker 1: and stay there. I love that too, because like manipulation
Speaker 1: to me is like another form of line. You're not
Speaker 1: telling me what you really want or what you need
Speaker 1: or what you're asking. Just say to fairy tale, it
Speaker 1: into the ending you want. And that's not stop fairy
Speaker 1: taling me. I don't even know if that's the word.
Speaker 1: I've made it up, fairy tale and I like it.
Speaker 1: Stop telling me, not gas lighting with fairy taling. That's it.
Speaker 1: That's it established today. So far as we know, we
Speaker 1: we create. We create at the virtual red table too,
Speaker 1: Yes we do. After that you've experienced treatment from your
Speaker 1: mom and dad that some people may consider unforgivable. Can
Speaker 1: you tell us about those experiences and what's made you
Speaker 1: choose to forgive your mom and not your dad. Great question.
Speaker 1: So for my father, he was verbally abusive. My father
Speaker 1: was cursed me out many times, and it's only when
Speaker 1: his emotions came into play. He didn't know how to
Speaker 1: manage his emotions well, he still doesn't, and it often
Speaker 1: came out in violence or verbal abuse, and so much
Speaker 1: that he actually abused my mother physically and beat her
Speaker 1: up when I was a kid. And my father has
Speaker 1: never owned up to the things that he's done. Even
Speaker 1: as a kid, hearing the stories about him abusing my
Speaker 1: mom and all the details of it and then asking
Speaker 1: him and for him to not own up to it
Speaker 1: and talk around it was an issue from me because
Speaker 1: being raised the way that I was raised, I was
Speaker 1: taught that adults take ownership and responsibility and accountability for
Speaker 1: the things that they do, and my father just refuses to.
Speaker 1: For years, me and my father haven't talked. We just
Speaker 1: started talking again when his father passed. My grandfather passed
Speaker 1: and I had not seen my father in many years.
Speaker 1: We stopped talking. My mother would always ask that your
Speaker 1: father text you happy birthday, wanting to just hope that
Speaker 1: there is a connection still there or hoping it could
Speaker 1: still happen, and nothing. My father just stopped connecting with me,
Speaker 1: and in turn, I found out recently he did the
Speaker 1: same thing to my sister and my younger brother. So
Speaker 1: it's not even just me. And it's sad to say that.
Speaker 1: It made me feel better because as a kid, you
Speaker 1: feel like it's just me, it's something wrong with me
Speaker 1: that he talks to me in this way or he
Speaker 1: treats me in this way. But to find out that
Speaker 1: he did the same thing to my sister and brother,
Speaker 1: it gave me a little bit a breathing room. But
Speaker 1: I have not forgiven my father, and I've just learned
Speaker 1: to accept that he is who he is. He's going
Speaker 1: to communicate the way he's going to communicate, and he's
Speaker 1: not going to change until he decides to change. But
Speaker 1: with my mom, that's the one where it was physical abuse.
Speaker 1: But I already painted the picture I sold you. My
Speaker 1: father beat up on my mother. Then my mother ended
Speaker 1: up taking it out on me so that when she
Speaker 1: saw me, she saw him, she saw where her life
Speaker 1: could have been if she did not listen to her
Speaker 1: first love saying, let's keep this baby boy, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna have this this great, amazing family, and let's do
Speaker 1: all these things. And all she saw was the broken
Speaker 1: promises that never came to fruition. And now she has
Speaker 1: to take care of this young baby boy at the
Speaker 1: age of nineteen by herself. And in my adult age,
Speaker 1: I can start to understand perspective. Do I agree that
Speaker 1: she should have been as physically violent as she was
Speaker 1: with me? Absolutely not, But I do understand my mother
Speaker 1: was nineteen and she just and when I say beat
Speaker 1: me up, they called it spanking. Back in the day,
Speaker 1: they would have the belts and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: I got the belt, welts on the leg, my either
Speaker 1: called dhs. She would grip me up by my chest,
Speaker 1: punch throw me to the ground, choke around the neck,
Speaker 1: punching the stomach, very physical things a lot of the
Speaker 1: time as a kid. But I thank God for my
Speaker 1: mother taking ownership and changing. See, my mother took ownership
Speaker 1: to apologize for all the things that she's done, not
Speaker 1: making any excuses for it at all, just stating facts
Speaker 1: and then apologizing, and she started to listen, and she
Speaker 1: started to do the work of unraveling a lot of
Speaker 1: her own traumas, whether it was childhood trauma, the way
Speaker 1: she was raised, my father and triggers that dealt with that,
Speaker 1: And me and my mother had the best relationship now
Speaker 1: to the point where she told me this week, I'm
Speaker 1: parenting her so And it's crazy how the roles will
Speaker 1: switch like that as you get older. But that's why
Speaker 1: I forgave my mother. I appreciate that you were able
Speaker 1: to sift through that journey of understanding and perspective, Anthony,
Speaker 1: So thank you for your bravery and willingness to work
Speaker 1: on that relationship. Though how many people just harden and
Speaker 1: just say I'm not even blocking it out or what
Speaker 1: have you write? Um, Katie, I'm sure you see and
Speaker 1: or hear things like this all the time. What factors
Speaker 1: do you take into consideration before coaching a client through
Speaker 1: forgiveness and reconciliation with someone? I think it depends on
Speaker 1: where they're at. A lot of it has to do
Speaker 1: with where my clients at, what they what they want,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times I think when it comes
Speaker 1: to parents and family, I think we talked about this
Speaker 1: last time. I was on about like feeling that responsibility
Speaker 1: or expectation to reconcile. And I love that, Anthony, that
Speaker 1: you've been able to separate those things right, a relationship
Speaker 1: with your father, like you don't have to forgive him
Speaker 1: in order to have him in your life in the
Speaker 1: way that he's able. But that takes a lot of carving,
Speaker 1: That takes a lot of boundaries, That takes a lot
Speaker 1: of work on your part to even have him around, right,
Speaker 1: And that's your priority. And so the first thing I
Speaker 1: do with my patience is figuring out what their priorities are.
Speaker 1: It's not for me to put my beliefs or thoughts
Speaker 1: into it. And as a therapist, a funny part of
Speaker 1: me is I get I'm a protector kind of I
Speaker 1: get like Mama bearish, where I'm like, I can't believe
Speaker 1: they'd hurt that? How dare that yet? Dada? And I
Speaker 1: can get that way, but I don't. Like all therapists,
Speaker 1: we lock it down, talk about in our own therapy
Speaker 1: to our own thing. But it's for you to decide
Speaker 1: what you want and then for me to help you
Speaker 1: do that in a healthy way. So if the goal
Speaker 1: is reconciliation, then what are the boundaries you can put
Speaker 1: in place to ensure that you aren't hurt again. If
Speaker 1: the goal is to forgive so that you don't keep
Speaker 1: ruminating about it, you want to let that go. You're
Speaker 1: not going to reconcile. Maybe you don't even want them
Speaker 1: in your life. How can I move you in a
Speaker 1: place where kind of to Anthony's point about talking about
Speaker 1: the understanding, sometimes understanding helps us let go of that
Speaker 1: anger and forgive. It's amazing your mom was able to
Speaker 1: apologize and ask for forgiveness. That takes a lot of
Speaker 1: Most abusers aren't able, essentially to put themselves aside and admit.
Speaker 1: If someone is able, we can give them the opportunity,
Speaker 1: We can communicate, we can hope for it and see
Speaker 1: what happens. And I try to navigate my patients through. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's imagine, best case they apologize, worst case they tell
Speaker 1: you to screw yourself. Most likely case, what do we
Speaker 1: think is going to happen? And we just prepare them
Speaker 1: for that and give them some language they can practice
Speaker 1: it out with me. I can play the role, be
Speaker 1: kind of gruff, be kind of soft, and yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's really about them meeting them where they're at. Mm hm.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. How does the act
Speaker 1: of forgiveness because again, Anthony, we we are just proud
Speaker 1: of your bravery and your understanding and your work right,
Speaker 1: because again, you really could have chosen to harden up
Speaker 1: to say I don't I just don't care, or act
Speaker 1: like it wasn't a thing. But how does the actual
Speaker 1: act of forgiveness affect your mental health? And maybe even
Speaker 1: on both sides, like even Anthony's mom, the act of okay,
Speaker 1: he forgives me for moving forward? How does it impact
Speaker 1: us on both SATs? Yeah, I think for the person who,
Speaker 1: like for Anthony, let's say, for the person who was
Speaker 1: harmed by something and needs the forgiveness, I think that
Speaker 1: that it can be a release, right, It can let
Speaker 1: it let us off. It can allow us to not
Speaker 1: ruminate and not wound ourselves with it again, because often
Speaker 1: we take old pains and it's one of my favorite
Speaker 1: postal service songs. Just such a random band, but they
Speaker 1: have these lyrics it won't heal right if you keep
Speaker 1: carrying out the sutures. And I always think of that
Speaker 1: when it comes to old things that we don't want
Speaker 1: to forgive, and we don't want to let go for ourselves,
Speaker 1: we just keep hurting, and we keep opening that wound
Speaker 1: up and touching around in there and then being like,
Speaker 1: I don't know why I hurt so bad, And so
Speaker 1: I think for us, yeah, because you do, you go
Speaker 1: and examine again. Let me think about this again, let
Speaker 1: me replay this one conversation, right, And then sometimes if
Speaker 1: you dig around in it too much with dirty hands,
Speaker 1: it gets infected. In fact, that Rampart didn't even put
Speaker 1: the gloves on. Go ahead, Tracy people exactly. And so
Speaker 1: that's how it wounds us as the person who was
Speaker 1: already harmed. Right, we already have the wound we're trying
Speaker 1: to stitch up. But when it comes to the other
Speaker 1: people in our lives, I think in the case of
Speaker 1: your mom, Anthony, like I said, it's it's almost not
Speaker 1: to say it's rare, because I hate that it is,
Speaker 1: but it is to have someone own up and for
Speaker 1: you to offer her forgiveness, right, it was a gift
Speaker 1: you gave her. You didn't have to offer that, and
Speaker 1: it was a gift that she asked for it. To write,
Speaker 1: it was this giving him receiving and when that happens,
Speaker 1: it's beautiful for both because if she or if any
Speaker 1: person who has harmed us has any remorse or empathy
Speaker 1: or understanding or acknowledgement that they did hurt, that lets
Speaker 1: them off the hook. Because if anybody has anxiety like me,
Speaker 1: and you wake up mill of night, you're like that
Speaker 1: thing I said ten years ago could hurt somebody's feelings,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, then it would be nice for someone
Speaker 1: to say, like that was fine, or I forgive you
Speaker 1: any big deal that stops me from opening up my
Speaker 1: own wound. And so I think in general it's it's
Speaker 1: it's good for both, but both have to be able
Speaker 1: to meet each other there. And that's the hard part,
Speaker 1: emotionally unshackled that part. So I like that too. I
Speaker 1: still have conversations with my mom. There may be some
Speaker 1: random questions I think about from my childhood that I
Speaker 1: opposed to her. But the amazing thing is that she's
Speaker 1: open to answer. She's not responding and aggressively or emotionally.
Speaker 1: And she told me one time because I asked her,
Speaker 1: I said, how do you feel when I asked those
Speaker 1: questions randomly? And she said like, and she said it
Speaker 1: catches me off guard. But the reason why I like
Speaker 1: it is because I don't have time to think, and
Speaker 1: it gives me the opportunity to be more authentic and
Speaker 1: honest about it. And I can appreciate that so much. Man,
Speaker 1: we've come light years. It's it's often crazy because people
Speaker 1: will see pictures of us together like, y'all are like
Speaker 1: best friends, How this happened? I'm like, if only you knew,
Speaker 1: And some of them, even my family members, are like,
Speaker 1: even when they see our relationship now, we're like, I
Speaker 1: remember when, and I'm like, no, I remember you on
Speaker 1: what our relationship was like. And it's been a journey,
Speaker 1: but we're still working through it. I imagine that has
Speaker 1: to be some measure of catharticism for your mom that
Speaker 1: as you come up with these new questions for her,
Speaker 1: that gives her a fresh new opportunity to kind of
Speaker 1: free herself in her own experience with you, so that
Speaker 1: she can continue to grow and evolve in her healing
Speaker 1: journey too. One of the things that she's always said
Speaker 1: is that she appreciates that we're able to talk now
Speaker 1: because as a kid, I couldn't share my feelings at all.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I was like, Tree, you don't care
Speaker 1: about my feelings. And it's funny. We were talking about
Speaker 1: how Jada and Shari wrote in a journal to each
Speaker 1: other to share and communicate, and I did that as
Speaker 1: a kid no Mother's Day cards, and any card that
Speaker 1: I would give her, I would write my feelings out.
Speaker 1: And my mother has always been nostalgic and holding onto
Speaker 1: those cards, and I would just say, Mommy, I just
Speaker 1: want you to listen to me. You don't have to
Speaker 1: hit me. I just want you to understand how I feel,
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff and cards. And she
Speaker 1: said at the time she couldn't connect with it because
Speaker 1: of her not being emotionally mature, But now that she
Speaker 1: has it to go back and look back on, it's
Speaker 1: been a little bit more therapeutic for her. But it's
Speaker 1: also sad at the same time because she's like, dag,
Speaker 1: my baby had to say this to get my attention,
Speaker 1: and I still couldn't see it. I still couldn't connect.
Speaker 1: So she kind of beats herself a little bit up
Speaker 1: about it, but she's getting better at letting it go,
Speaker 1: and I'm helping her with that. I'm like, look, it
Speaker 1: is what it is. It happened, but let's not dwell
Speaker 1: on what happened. Look how far we've come. We're going
Speaker 1: to take a quick break, but our conversation on toxic
Speaker 1: forgiveness will continue when we return. And then, how have
Speaker 1: you come to terms with your relationship with your father
Speaker 1: now that you've made a decision that you're not forgiving him,
Speaker 1: Where are you emotionally with that? Honestly, when it comes
Speaker 1: to my father, I really don't have as much emotions
Speaker 1: about it, and I think it's because most of my
Speaker 1: childhood my father has been in and out of my life.
Speaker 1: My father kind of disconnected from me once my mom
Speaker 1: got married to my stepdad because in his mind, of course,
Speaker 1: it's territorial. He was very territorial, which is why he
Speaker 1: was physically violent with my mom. But now he felt
Speaker 1: as though he was being replaced by my stepdad. And
Speaker 1: to this day, me and my stepdad don't have a
Speaker 1: close relationship. So I'm thirty five. They got married when
Speaker 1: I was ten, so that's twenty five years. If you're
Speaker 1: not being part of my life where we could have
Speaker 1: had a great relationship, but you were so stuck in
Speaker 1: here on what you thought of what anybody else might
Speaker 1: have said so. Because I've had so many years of
Speaker 1: absence from my father, it's almost like I don't think
Speaker 1: about it. I don't think about having the relationship. I
Speaker 1: don't think about bad things, and never since the pandemic.
Speaker 1: He'll send me pictures through text message when I was
Speaker 1: a kid and things like that. That's his way of
Speaker 1: kind of going back through nostalgia at adults, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: going back down memory lane. I'm like, yeah, I remember
Speaker 1: this and all that, and it's pleasant and I'm okay
Speaker 1: with that. But I'm not looking for him to technically
Speaker 1: be dad. I'm thirty five now, I don't really need
Speaker 1: him to. I don't care. You say that you don't
Speaker 1: have a relationship with your stepdad is well, and I don't.
Speaker 1: We are very cordial, it's very hi and by. We
Speaker 1: don't talk on the phone, we don't text other than
Speaker 1: it's happy Birthday or Happy Father's Day. The reason why
Speaker 1: we're not closest because he didn't want to intervene between
Speaker 1: me and my father, and for me, that started this
Speaker 1: place of feeling not worthy, creating insecurities that nobody sees me,
Speaker 1: nobody's going to choose me. My mother didn't choose my feelings.
Speaker 1: My father didn't choose me, and he decided to just
Speaker 1: let me go. And then my stepfather sees that my
Speaker 1: mother is physically abusive sometimes, and I don't see him
Speaker 1: checking her or stopping her. I don't see him trying
Speaker 1: to build a relationship and do things that I see
Speaker 1: him do with his nieces or when his son came around.
Speaker 1: So it's we we just never had that connection. I
Speaker 1: used to yearn for it, but I also had to realize, yes,
Speaker 1: he takes care of me, and I'm totally grateful for
Speaker 1: it and all the things that he's done, But at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, there's a kid here that
Speaker 1: needs some emotional connection from somebody, and I'm not getting
Speaker 1: it from those that I'm supposed to be getting it from,
Speaker 1: like my own parents and you as a step parent
Speaker 1: or bonus parents part Katie, I'd love to know your
Speaker 1: thoughts on this. How can you mend or even just
Speaker 1: move past relationships without forgiving What are some of your
Speaker 1: advice there? Yeah, I think in general, it's boundaries. I
Speaker 1: always tell people, make a list of what you want
Speaker 1: and what they're capable of, and then we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to spend some time, unfortunately grieving the difference, right, And
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of where you start. And then
Speaker 1: when they're capable of you have to decide again. It's
Speaker 1: like back to what we want, what we're able to
Speaker 1: allow in our lives. People get privileged to us, right,
Speaker 1: get the privilege of knowing us. Then we have to
Speaker 1: decide if what they're capable of is going to be
Speaker 1: enough for us, and we move forward with that that
Speaker 1: it's hard, and like that grief I just talked about it,
Speaker 1: like but it it takes work and it's sad. But
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of times, especially with parents,
Speaker 1: we think our parents can do anything. We think that
Speaker 1: they know everything, they can fix anything. I think my
Speaker 1: dad could fix anything. And then as we get older,
Speaker 1: we realize you're just like me. You don't know what
Speaker 1: you're doing, you don't know what's happening in it. When
Speaker 1: you're friends and you start to have kids, you realize
Speaker 1: just how much we're going in it. And I think
Speaker 1: that realization can be hard. But again, if we can
Speaker 1: just kind of come to terms with what our dream is,
Speaker 1: what they're capable of, and if we're okay with what
Speaker 1: they're capable of then I always encourage my clients to
Speaker 1: work on reconciliation in a way that feels okay and
Speaker 1: safe for them is the healing for me. I needed
Speaker 1: that answer. Do you all realize that, Cara Anthony, we're
Speaker 1: having a free session here, Okay, We're getting we are
Speaker 1: getting a full fledged free session with Katie Morton. Okay,
Speaker 1: because the fact that she just gave us so many
Speaker 1: other nuggets, but this nugget of recognizing where someone what
Speaker 1: your expectation is and then identifying the reality of what
Speaker 1: their capacity is to give you and are you satisfied
Speaker 1: with that or not? It was a missing piece for me.
Speaker 1: It's something I learned recently because you know what we do.
Speaker 1: We instead we identified what we want from them, and
Speaker 1: then we get mad they can't make the jump shot,
Speaker 1: like we're waiting for them to like Michael Jordan's get
Speaker 1: up there, and really they just gonna stay right here.
Speaker 1: It's just ok And if you were expecting me to
Speaker 1: jump shot, and I'm telling you, I got that needs
Speaker 1: the Janna wishing her husband would not And no matter
Speaker 1: how many books they women more more, it was there
Speaker 1: were more than women. Let's make sure we're honoring what
Speaker 1: she said. There are not enough books, there are not
Speaker 1: enough podcast I don't care how many interviews you do.
Speaker 1: The man was cheating. I'm gonna say this, and I
Speaker 1: don't know if we're gonna be able to keep this
Speaker 1: saying or not, but I'm gonna tell you what a
Speaker 1: friend of mine told me about a friend of hers
Speaker 1: who she was in a relationship that was cheating. You
Speaker 1: want to hear it, here it goes. She said, you
Speaker 1: gotta let a home be a home. That's it. Period,
Speaker 1: mic drop period, And Jana was trying to make a
Speaker 1: whole of husband. That was yeah, because they talk about
Speaker 1: the housewife. Let's go ahead, let's let it do it.
Speaker 1: It's the husky. So that look, Jim, we just got
Speaker 1: from you Katie that that is applicable all across the board.
Speaker 1: And I love it powerful Seriously, Anthony, how have you
Speaker 1: worked toward healing within yourself after experiencing so much trauma
Speaker 1: from your parents? Yeah, that's a good question. I I
Speaker 1: can't leave it up to me. Like India r has
Speaker 1: saved my life and many times when it comes to
Speaker 1: her music, even in my older years, I'm reading books
Speaker 1: more and it's this book. It's funny that we were
Speaker 1: talking about. I think, Katie, you mentioned how figuring out
Speaker 1: what they want and what they have the capacity to do.
Speaker 1: And I'm reading this book called Adult Children of Immature
Speaker 1: Parents and Emotionally Immature Parents. Excuse me, and when I
Speaker 1: tell you that book has helped me because I realized
Speaker 1: now in my older age, my father didn't have the capacity.
Speaker 1: And I actually said to my little brother, and I
Speaker 1: said to my cousin who has experienced the same kind
Speaker 1: of abandonment with her father, which is my father's brother,
Speaker 1: and I told him, I said, we should be grateful
Speaker 1: that they weren't part of our lives. And they were
Speaker 1: like what, And I said, they didn't have the capacity.
Speaker 1: They probably had the capacity to ruin us rather than
Speaker 1: what we actually experienced. And I know it's something that
Speaker 1: we don't I know, it's not something that we want
Speaker 1: to hear. And everybody may not be at the place
Speaker 1: where they're able to receive it, but it doesn't stop
Speaker 1: it from being true. So acknowledging and knowing that my
Speaker 1: father didn't have the capacity and no longer putting the
Speaker 1: pressure on myself to have that relationship with my dad
Speaker 1: has been really big. So that's kind of helped me
Speaker 1: on this journey of freedom, um, not necessarily forgiveness, but
Speaker 1: freedom with them myself, and not only free of myself,
Speaker 1: but freeing him of the obligation that he couldn't fulfill.
Speaker 1: I just had to let it go. I couldn't keep
Speaker 1: holding it anymore and put it on a T shirt,
Speaker 1: just moving it over and just moving on with my life.
Speaker 1: And it's been the best thing for me. I think
Speaker 1: you're trying to get a COMMA L M F T
Speaker 1: behind your name to Anthony Thompson. I think so that's
Speaker 1: a that's some good work right there, Car and I
Speaker 1: could talk to you both for hours and hours and hours,
Speaker 1: and I say this I think every episode. But it's
Speaker 1: so true that once again a phenomenal topic that needs
Speaker 1: to have awareness, toxic forgiveness is happening. We do it
Speaker 1: and we don't know it. I'm grateful for bringing this
Speaker 1: to the table and having brave souls generals brave to
Speaker 1: share her truth. It has a lot about a person
Speaker 1: to say that. So we also know another brave soul,
Speaker 1: and that is you, Anthony Thompson. So unbelievably brave, major, major,
Speaker 1: major kudos to you and gratitude for sharing your story
Speaker 1: and journey with us, And to you Katie for navigating
Speaker 1: us through and giving us the right language to help
Speaker 1: us along and putting some good tools in our tool belt.
Speaker 1: So thank you both for being here at the virtual
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for letting me, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you both. We wantn't know how you're feeling
Speaker 1: about this new season or Red Table Talk. We are
Speaker 1: open to talk about anything with you all, so sending
Speaker 1: your questions at Let's Red Table that at red table
Speaker 1: talk dot com or leave us a boy smell you
Speaker 1: already know. We got a new system gonna speak pipe
Speaker 1: and that is speak pipe dot com slash Let's Red Table. Then,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening. Make sure y'all hear me,
Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe on I Heart Radio app, and
Speaker 1: please rate this podcast on Apple Podcast Up five. We'll
Speaker 1: be back next week for another episode of Let's Red
Speaker 1: Table that I beg Thank you to our executive producers
Speaker 1: Jada Pinkett Smith, Ellen Rackitton, and Balin Jethrow. And thank
Speaker 1: you to our producer Kyla Kanaru and our associate producer
Speaker 1: Yolanda Chow. And finally, thank you to our sound engineer,
Speaker 1: Stephanie Aguilar. Let's spread table that. Let's table that