WEBVTT - Toxic Forgiveness (Jana Kramer recap) 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.160 Hey, y'all, Hey, what's up? And welcome to Let's Red 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:09.120 Table that I'm Tracy t Row and I'm Carl Pressley. 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:11.760 How are you feeling the day, Tracy? You know I'm 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.880 feeling every day amazing, and I know you're feeling successful, successful, 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.520 any other way to be Ben Well, I'm telling you 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:23.400 you know, this episode was also just absolutely amazingly successful. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:29.400 They had the opportunity to talk about toxic forgiveness. Now, 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:31.240 first of all, I didn't even know that was a thing, 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:33.960 did you come, didn't know de term at all. I 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.160 had no idea what was going on. But after watching 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:41.159 an episode, it made me start thinking about even toxic optimism. 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.280 So I mean, clearly you can have too much anything minute. 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.000 I am that friend who's like, oh you're sad, let's 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:49.800 get over it. And I just I had to remember 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.599 sometimes people need to just feel it. Me feel yea, 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.200 and maybe I need to just sit in it and feel. 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:59.480 So you know about that talking about that needing to 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.240 just ner and sit in and work through your feeling. 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:07.320 And whether it's grief or happiness or sadness, we like 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:11.280 sitting in happiness and we're constantly looking for the happiness, 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.840 right but when grief comes up, sometimes you gotta deal 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.600 and sometimes you allow yourself to believe something that isn't 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.360 true in pursuit of being happy. Hello, come on, I 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.240 think that was part of what we saw in this episode, Karen. 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.040 I have some scenarios of our own where we're going 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:29.080 to talk about if we will forgive or not right, 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.040 and we obviously want you to join in on the conversation. 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:35.680 So send us an email at let's red table that's 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.399 at red table talk dot com and let us know 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:42.360 if you agree or disagree with us. All right, come on, 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.840 let's get it, Tracy. Would you forgive a sibling that 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:51.160 sleeps with a partner on your wedding day? Okay? So now, 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.080 I just I can't wait to get this. This is 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:58.919 the wait. What if my sibling sleeps with my partner 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.760 on my wedding day? It's a big bat hell to 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:06.040 the note. I'm not I'm not forgiving that. I'm not 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.919 forgetting that. So now would you forgive? It's a no, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:12.440 it's a note for me. It was the wedding day 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.040 for me because didn't we pay for this? I just 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.200 I can't he's going on the honeymoon now, I mean 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:23.480 all right. Now, the next question. Your child gets expelled 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.639 from college, pretends to still be in school, and you 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:31.160 find out on the day they're supposed to graduate. Okay, 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.880 let me say something to you. It's the audacity for me, real, 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.920 real clear. There are two parts of this, and it 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.440 all depends on the funding. If I have been funding 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.200 your education and you have been lying saying that you're 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.280 in school and you are not, and then you have 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:52.360 lied and say that you're graduating and you're not, that 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.800 is going to be a major problem for me. Okay, 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.240 I'm going to ultimately be able to forgive it, but 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.160 it would be see it for me to forgive it. 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:05.120 If to you funded your own process and you dropped 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.239 out on your own dime, then sure that's your life. 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.840 You do you bo I definitely understand that perspective. You 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.440 know on this one. I'm gonna forgive. I can forgive. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.160 I told my son when he graduated high school. Listen, well, 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:20.400 I'm having a cookout in Juil, so you're gonna be 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.680 a guest or a graduate. But I'm eating a hot 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.600 dog and a Hamburger, So I can forgive, and I'm 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:27.640 gonna still celebrate and go out to eat because it's 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:31.239 your journey. So create the life that you want. You're 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.399 gonna have a hot operational plate. Whether he had high vibration, 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.600 come on that right, because he got a low vibrational 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.840 situation going on, and that's his business. And now the 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:44.800 last one. Your parents has had a secret family. Oh 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.200 this happens all the time. Your parent has had a 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.000 secret family and you don't find out until you're an adult. 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:55.720 It's a tough one. How many funerals are we talking about? Listen, 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.040 I'm not gonna put my whole family's business out there, 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.400 but I definitely have experienced this, and I definitely would forgive. 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.600 But I will say it is hard to look around 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:06.680 that people at the reunion, like y'all had all this 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.640 going on. I'm just gonna say that, Okay, in this case, 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.480 the family is something that is truly a treasure and 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:14.920 a gift, and I would forgive. Although I would have 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.960 a lot of questions, I didn't have a lot of questions. 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:19.800 I wanted all of them. I want the answers and 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.200 I need all the information. Just sit at the table 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.440 and just be ready, open yourself up, and just answer it. Now. 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:27.480 The question I want to know from y'all is what 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.640 would you do? And then this is real deal. So 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:32.640 I know some of you all have just found your 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:35.159 sister and brothers and uncles and cousin. So send us 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.120 an email at Let's Red Table that a red Table 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:39.320 talk dot com. We can't wait to hear the responses 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:42.320 or listen. I think this would be great. I'm just 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.279 gonna go ahead and put out there a good speak 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.240 pipe send us a voice memo and tell us yes, 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.279 ma'am or no, sir, I cannot do or I would 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:54.240 definitely forgive you know what. That's right, okay? And so 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.920 our speak pipe is speakpipe dot com slash Let's red 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.920 Table that we're gonna get that. That's what we're gonna 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.520 get that. We're going to take a quick break, but 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.600 when we get back, we'll be joined by two incredible 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:13.800 guests from our Red Table Talk community. All right, we're 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.880 bringing two fellow our t T community members to the 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:21.560 Virtual Red Table today. I am way excited. Carl Anthony 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:25.279 Thompson is joining the Virtual Red Table from North Carolina, 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.880 and he's here to share about his emotionally and physically 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.560 abusive relationship with his parents, including how he's able to 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.960 forgive his mom and why his dad has not earned 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:39.560 his forgiveness. Anthony, thank you so much for joining us 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.200 and sharing your story with us. No, thank you, thank 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:43.880 you for giving me the opportunity to come and share. 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:47.680 I appreciate that. Yes, we appreciate you. And our second 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.039 guest has been on our podcast before. Katie is a 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:55.720 licensed marriage and family therapist, YouTube creator, author, speaker, and 0:05:55.839 --> 0:06:00.480 a passionate psycho education facilitates her. Okay, love all the 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.239 titles and the titles for me. But she first shared 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.640 her expertise as our mental health expert for our very 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.039 first mental health moment, And now Katie's joining us for 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.760 a full episode because we need it and we're going 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:16.600 to talk about toxic forgiveness. So welcome Katie. How are you. 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.760 I'm good. It's great to be backing. So good to 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:21.760 see you, Katie. So glad to have you with us 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:32.520 at the virtual Red Table. Alright, guys, so this is 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:34.720 the part of the show where we reveal which moments 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:41.440 made us pause, rewe listen again and say what's wait? Wait, 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:48.640 stop altogether Okay, so many moments, just like Red Table 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.440 Talk has been delivering off season. It's another heavy episode, 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.839 but necessary episode. We're gonna try to bring some life 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.120 to this, but let's get into it. I'm gonna kick 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.080 it off. What about Jada talking about her and re 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.840 sharing a journal. We had a journal that we would 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:08.280 send back to one another. Oh right, just kind of 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.000 expressing things to one another that might not have been 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:15.320 easy to talk about face to face. Yeah. I actually 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.800 loved this piece of the episode. What did you guys think? 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.040 I thought it was great too. I just like the 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.960 fact that they have this sisterhood and they're so comfortable 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.000 talking about it. But I know it was pretty rough, 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.080 and I thought the idea was really creative to be 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.640 able to say, let me get out how I feel 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.200 so that we can still communicate and then be able 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.480 to develop what we need to do for Tray because 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.160 that was the focus. And I love that. Yeah, putting 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.800 the kids first, it's got to be hard when there's 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.920 so much emotion involved. And I really appreciated the fact 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:44.880 that they both were willing to work on it, and 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.680 they both admitted I think right up front. When I 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:48.880 was listening to this, I was like, Oh, they just 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.200 jumped right in, like right up front there, like we 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.240 had trouble, and I overstepped, and I overstepped, and this 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.200 is what I did, and the other people are like, 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:02.480 you did right, wait right, wait, yeah, But in the moment, 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.440 there's a lot of emotion at play, and I really 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.320 appreciate the fact they were able to kind of step 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:11.960 aside and put the kids first, which I mean, it's nice. 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:13.600 It's hard to get out of your own way. And 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.320 I was so impressed. Oh no, I loved that is 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.360 the absolute truth, Katie. That is so true. We often 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.720 talk about different vehicles for communication, right, what's the best 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.280 thing that works for us? And number one, I liked 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.160 that they both realized, they comprehended that family was the goal, 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.640 the kid was the goal, the child was the goal, 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.480 and they decided, this is our vehicle. We are going 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.240 to use this journal to really help us get out 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.120 the things that we need. I just thought it was 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.480 so successful. I hope someone else incorporates it into their life. 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.760 It reminded me sometimes when me and my son aren't 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.760 saying out, we will text each other because you just 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.079 sometimes you just don't want to hear that person's voice 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.520 in the moment. So I love it, And don't you 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:59.520 think like writing it down slows it down sometimes face 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.480 to face because you can't take things back right then 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:05.040 we're in another level of forgiveness. We already got this 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.240 one beef going on and we're like layer and it's 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:09.160 just too much. And I think sometimes when you have 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.480 to write it and you look at the words, you 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.880 can think twice before this is what I want to send, 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:16.960 or this is what I really want to say. Another 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:21.679 weight what moment was when Janna sharing that she forgave 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.360 her husband for cheating the first time because she thought 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.760 I cheated before and never forgave myself, So I'll forgive 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:32.520 him as if forgiven him with give her healing. There 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.920 were flags in the beginning he had cheated, you know, 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.560 a month into dating. But I'm like, it's okay. I've 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.800 cheated in past relationships and I didn't forgive myself for it, 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:44.040 So I'm gonna forgive you. I can make this work. 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.200 We can grow together and in the marriage too. Every 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.760 time he cheated, first, second, third, however, many times like 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.920 I like, I forgive you. Wait, what what have you 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.280 ever felt like you had to forgive someone because you 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.400 had the same mistake in the past. I don't know 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.080 if I would say that I forgot save, but I 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.360 probably would have had a little bit more grace in it, 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:06.360 because forgiveness means I'm just going to throw it out 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.520 the window and let it go. Now, I'll still be 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:10.679 looking a little sideways, like I remember when you did 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.079 that a couple of months ago. Now, don't don't act 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.280 crazy now. But I don't know if I would say 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.000 forgive that's a little bit more strong. Interesting. Yeah, I 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.800 agree with we have more understanding when you know you've 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.680 been there before. Yeah. I think the grace is a 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.359 perfect word, Anthony. It's like you can see from that perspective, 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.520 and so you might say, hey, it didn't mean anything 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.640 to me. I'm sure it didn't mean anything to him, 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.240 and you can make those kind of concessions or a 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.439 different understanding which maybe could allow you to do that 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.400 more easily. Okay, Now, I just want you to know 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.400 whether I cheat it or not. If I cheat. If 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.720 I cheat, it, shame on me. If you cheat on me, 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.240 shame on you. And if you forgave me that, shame 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:53.000 on you too. Because I'm not I'm not forgiving you. 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.920 I'm not showing you grace. I'm done. It's wait, what 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.360 really you said we don't do cheating around here. It's 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:04.480 truly Wait what that part very adamant. It's a it's 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.840 a zero tolerance policy over here. It is over here too. 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.240 I definitely understand that though, Yeah, because he kept cheating. 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.360 And the thing that was interesting to me about it 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.080 when she said that, she said that he cheated the 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:20.679 first month in right, and so he had been cheating, right, 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.240 He had been cheating. He cheating. He was probably cheating 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.600 the day they got married. Flaming red flag. I know, 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:32.160 it's leave him before it's too serious, absolutely before a month. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.640 Then he can hold it down. I mean, so, I 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:37.760 don't know if that was when she said that was 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.520 the first time, but I mean he was like a 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.640 serial cheater. Well that's the first time she caught him. Essentially, 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.400 there it is, and that's what that is. When I 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:48.320 think it was, Jada said to her, so he's cheated 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.600 on you, like with twelve or thirteen, and I was like, 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.440 that's a lot. Right. As soon as she said more more, 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:58.800 I was like, lord, clutching pearls and everything clutched the pearls. 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:04.720 Gather your things and get the f outs her heart. 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.040 You know this. It reminded me, though, watching her. We 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.679 want to hold on so bad, just a little bit 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.000 of something for a fear of having nothing altogether. I mean, 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:16.400 and I have done it before, not not like that 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.760 we weren't married, of course, but you know, you just 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.520 want something. She's had a whole idea. Clearly they've gone 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.240 through a whole wedding and we can't stop now, why 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.040 can't you? And she she was worried about her kids. 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:29.800 Remember she said, I grew up in a broken home. 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:34.000 And I think if we don't process our own trauma before, 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.760 this is part. I know people don't like this, but 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.679 to get into a relationship when you haven't worked through 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:46.040 your own stuff first is very dangerous territory because we 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.720 can repeat behaviors without realizing we're doing it because that's 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.160 what's comfortable. And for her, that was the dream. The 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.600 dream was we get married, live happily ever after, and 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.360 come hell or high water. I'm holding onto that, even 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.160 though by holding onto it she was like drowning herself. 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.320 You know, it's like the same. It's one of my 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.560 favorite quotes is you can't let yourself on fire to 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.120 keep someone else warm. And it was like it was 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.320 kind of that feeling that I got from it where 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.760 it was like she's wounding herself to keep this thing 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.920 that doesn't exist, and it's the one she wasn't on 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:21.880 fire in other ways from all that cheating, I was wondering, 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.760 but that part, I think she was just really holding 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.080 onto who she thought he could be rather than who 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.760 he really was. That was one of the biggest things 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:32.319 that I noticed, and that was what I was feeling. 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.440 I was like, Yeah, he's showing you who he is, 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.679 but you're still trying to get him to be who 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:39.480 he's showing you he can't be. That's a lot of 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:41.320 the dream a lot of times a lot of people, 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.440 and I'll do that. I'm guilty. I've done it too. 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.600 And see the more excuses he had, the more excuses 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.280 he had, the more time she was willing to forgive him. Yeah, 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.560 it was interesting. I think it was Shari said at 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.160 the beginning, using a man to define who she was. 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:56.200 I think Janna set it up front and then they 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.040 all said yeah, yeah, yeah, me too, me too. And 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:01.480 I think sometimes we can get caught up like that 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.600 where we think, hey, this relationship defines me. She said, 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.040 I would put it out there. We've been public and 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.880 we've been public about him getting better, and I think 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:14.080 there was this maybe confusion around like work in real 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:18.000 life and perception and reality. And I think she might 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.600 have even not to say that this happened necessarily, but 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.320 I wonder if she might even tricked herself. Right, you 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:25.240 say it enough times you start to believe it. So 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.640 my husband's gotten better, he's better, just recovered. He's doing this, 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:30.960 and I think she kind of drank her own kool aid, 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.800 and then it's just hard probably also not even probably, 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.280 they're definitely making money off of this success right in 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.000 their love life, which kind of takes us to the 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.200 last weight. What moment Jana sharing that her ex husband's 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:48.480 excuse for cheating with he says the podcast was a 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.040 catalyst for more of his cheating because it made him 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.080 feel like he always had the spotlight on him. So 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.160 then I felt like it was my fault because if 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.000 only we didn't have that podcast, he wouldn't have spot 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.160 light is onto me, has to cheat. I'm confused, and 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.720 he felt pressure to be this like perfect, and not 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:07.680 if I wanted to be perfect, I don't think i'd 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:15.240 be cheating. I'm just saying, so that's what it's kind 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:17.560 of like the point where we're just making like maybe 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.120 she was doing her work and clearly he had a 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.320 false perception of his reality. Sir, you're married. I don't 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.080 know if you've forgot, but you're married. How did you 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:28.920 guys feel about? Let me say this and then I'm 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.840 just gonna move my non grace giving self out the way. Okay, 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:35.600 how are you going to say? With the pocket? And 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:37.960 I could just hear it like that in that Baby 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.800 Baby and pease for baby Baby please. A podcast is 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.520 just just it's serving like a catalyst. It's just making 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.840 me feel like I gotta cheat even more because it 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.240 just all we're talking about, like what they're throwing it 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:55.360 at me? Get out of here, right helong war By. 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.320 I think he was. I felt like he was out 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.520 of excuses at this point. He was just grasping at 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:03.000 anything because I'm like, it doesn't make any sense. I 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.560 can understand him saying I do feel pressure to be 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.360 the perfect husband and that's why I lash out or 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.080 that's why I don't do this or that. But to 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:15.280 say that them talking about their past and how hard 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.520 it was and how you've worked through it, I'm like, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.800 what make that make sense? To me, I'm a very 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.160 logical person. I don't see the logic and I don't 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.280 even see the emotion in it. I don't understand. We're 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.320 just being honest about what you actually want. You don't. 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.840 I don't think you want a family, sir. I don't 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.360 think that's not the traditional type of family and or 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:37.560 why did you marry into it? But there are a 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.400 lot of people out here trying to live the dream. 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.960 That's really not your dream. You got to define your dream, 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.360 I guess totally. Don't try to be something you're not 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.200 what the expectation is and married with two point five 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.200 kids in the pick ad fence idea, Yeah, that doesn't 0:16:52.200 --> 0:17:03.040 work right right two point five? What did you think 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.240 about this episode? But for me, I thought it was 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.640 a great episode. I love seeing Shari and Jada talk 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.080 by like seeing that dynamic because it's so unheard of. 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.160 It's almost like it's not real that it's really happening 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.520 that Will's ex wife and current wife are having a 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.120 conversation and they get along and they have family time together, 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.600 and they built this substantial relationship that even started to 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:28.280 exist outside of Trey. So I think that's awesome to see. 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.760 But I gotta admit I had some emotional moments, especially 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.679 when it got towards the end and Sharie had her 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.760 emotional moment and she was talking about her and Trey 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:39.919 and how Trey said to her that she didn't care 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.639 about his feelings, and I identified with that so well, 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.000 dealing with my situation with my mother growing up, where 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.679 my mother was so focused on survival and she was 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.000 taught that being a woman meant being strong, and what 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:57.320 strong meant was being hard. And I started to literally 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.280 see my mother and see my dynamic with my mother, 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.800 to which I didn't have those kind of conversations with 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.520 my mother until I was grown because I couldn't all 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:08.439 those times. So that was the part that got me 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.240 a little bit. I was like, wait, let me dab 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.000 the corners of my eyes a little bit, because it's 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.760 a real thing to have your parents not validate your 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.159 feelings or understand your feelings or you have the open 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:21.960 space to be able to share how you feel. And 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.560 I went most of my childhood not being able to 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:27.800 talk to my mother and my father about my feelings. 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.479 So it got me a little emo when I was 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.440 watching it. Yeah, No, there was a lot. There's so much. 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.080 Anthony touched on a lot of the same things that 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.880 they resonated with me as well, especially that I put 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:43.320 in my notes toxic strength, because we're talking about toxic forgiveness, 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.520 but the feeling or the belief in our society, and 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:48.600 this applies to men and women that you have to 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.080 buck up. This means being strong. I mean I was 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.399 raised by a lot of stubborn, strong women, but that 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.040 can also mean forgiving when you shouldn't and being a 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.280 little bit too harsh on yourself on others. And I 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.359 think sometimes we don't recognize that. And to that point, 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.639 my next like kind of note was just like, we 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:13.800 are so uncomfortable sometimes with anger, upset and dislike that 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.240 we rushed to move past it. And when we're a parent, 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:18.639 I think, and I'm not a parent, so I'm not 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.480 pretending to know. I haven't birthed any babies, but if 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.760 I'm uncomfortable with it, then I'm going to encourage them 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:26.800 to be uncomfortable with it because I want them to 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:28.359 move more quickly through it. And I can do that 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.399 to my friends, to go to my husband, I can 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.880 do that to people because I don't want to sit 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.000 with it, and I think That's what really got me 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.480 about this episode was just the ability to sit with 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:42.600 the discomfort. And I think that's a muscle that, like, 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.000 I know personally I need to work on, but I 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:50.840 think everybody does, because forgiveness isn't acceptance, It isn't condoning behavior. 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:55.840 Forgiveness is for you. And if you can't and I'm 0:19:55.840 --> 0:20:00.120 saying this to myself mostly I can't admit when thing 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.679 are hurtful, and I can't communicate my upsets and and 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.800 let somebody hear it, then how do I expect to 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.359 process through it. I did love that they mentioned that 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.560 it was like a process, not a choice, because forgiveness 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:16.359 it's tricky, right, But I've always thought forgiveness, let's me 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.080 off the hook because I don't need to keep thinking 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.600 about this. That was what stuck out to me is 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.840 we don't need to get it muddied. Forgiveness is not acceptance. 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:29.720 Forgiveness is not condoning behavior, and forgiveness most importantly is 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:34.840 not reconciliation. That's good And I liked when even Nedra 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:39.640 said that forgiveness was about your emotional process as an individual, 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.040 and I was like, I've never heard it in that way. 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.679 I've heard people say many times that forgiveness is for you, 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:46.640 but it's some kind of light bulb went off when 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:48.480 she put it in those words in that form, and 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.639 I was like, let me write this down. That was 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:52.959 good to me and for me to be conscious of 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:54.800 when I have to go into a place that possibly 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:59.399 forgiving somebody for something that's the table. I feel like 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:04.160