1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, you're welcome to stuff Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: what's your relationship with junk food? Well, you know, as 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: a hinder teen, I would love to get myself into 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: some Cheetos and darker pepper. I felt like this was 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: the taste sensation. I don't know that I had an 8 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: addiction to it, but that was my go to poison. Yeah. 9 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: I feel like for a lot of us, our childhood 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: was a waste land of of bad food. And you know, 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: and I my dad was was a dentist, so you know, 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 1: I feel like we we didn't have as much of 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: the whole, eat everything you want candy bowl kind of 14 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: environment that a lot of households had, but that still 15 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: I remember drinking a lot of colas. I remember eating 16 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: a lot of magic metal, the cubler of cookies that 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: had a chocolate e center and a short red outside 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: that they eventually quit making, and it was a very 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: cheerful event. I remember eating tons of Twizzlers, and even 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: even to this this day, I have I've been able 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: to to shut out a lot of junk food from 22 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: my life, at least overt junk food. And still if 23 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: someone offers me twizzlers, I end up falling into the 24 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: trap of accepting them. You know what mine is? What 25 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: is it? Chip? Which? Chip? Which? It's the chocolate chip 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: cookies with the ice cream middle chocolate chip cookie. Oh, 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: like an ice cream sandwich. Yeah, yeah, Which turns out 28 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: is we're going to discuss, has all the elements of 29 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: like an addictive food because you have the texture, you have, 30 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: you know, the different ingredients contrasting and the creaminess. And 31 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: so I'm kind of powerless if if you put a 32 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: chip which in front of me, well, luckily it has 33 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: that frozen aspect to it. So it's it's not the 34 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: kind of thing you would necessarily find on a table 35 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: at work, like left there by someone who was just 36 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: trying to remove the curse from their own life. Um, 37 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: something frozen has to be hidden away in a freezer 38 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: or offered directly from a chilling advisum. You're right, I 39 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: could if I could just turn away from it for 40 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: like twenty minutes, then I could just Yeah, but we 41 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: are going to talk about this. These powers, the hold 42 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: that junk food has over us, and the fact that 43 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: it's not accidental. There's a lot of money in research 44 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: and development into making the perfect junk food to trip 45 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: the sort of hardwired desires that we have for it. Yeah, 46 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: it's kind of chilling because it's it's easy to just think, well, 47 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: chocolate chip cookies are delicious, you know, my mom makes 48 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: my grandma makes them. Whatever. There's something kind of natural 49 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: and wholesome about that. And and even if it is 50 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: super normal stimuli and its own right, it's still doesn't 51 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: seem that nefarious. But when you start looking at at 52 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: the way that these companies create these items and the 53 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: way they tweak their game plan and just and and 54 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: really gain the food item in their favor economically, then 55 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: it kind of gives you the willies. Yeah, because you're like, 56 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you you realize that that chip 57 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: which has been engineered in a lab somewhere with some 58 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: really expensive equipment. And we'll get to that, but first 59 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: let's talk about this influence of food on our behavior, 60 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: because not just like, hey, we we desire this and 61 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: therefore we take the actions to secure it and eat it. 62 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: It's something a little bit more and a good example 63 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: of this is the power of freshly baked bread. Yeah, 64 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: this is really really interesting. And and it involves bread, 65 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: which is an artificial food. You know, for the most part, 66 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's not something you're going to pick out 67 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: of a tree. It's a it's a product of human ingenuity. 68 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: And yet it seems wholesome enough, right. I mean I 69 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: I even find myself at the store sometimes picking up 70 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: bread and forgetting that that it could contain it could 71 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: contain high fruit dose corn syrup until I actually bring 72 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: the bread home and I'm like, oh crap, it's wheat bread, 73 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: but it has high fruit dose corn serpent. But there's something, 74 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: there is something safe feeling about the bread and it's 75 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: been a part of safe rituals for a long time. 76 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: I mean to take of bread and salt in Eastern cultures. Uh, 77 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: bread and salt were eaten uh with an oath that 78 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: was taken. Um. You know, there's the the just the 79 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: idea of the breaking of bread being away to to 80 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: to ease grievances. You have the ritual of the Eucharist 81 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: in the Catholic tradition and uh and and uh, you know, 82 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: and basically throughout Christianity, the idea that you know, you're 83 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: gonna eat this bread and it's the the flesh of 84 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: Christ and all that. I mean, it's still it's it. 85 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: That's that's bread breaking and it's most ritualistic. Yeah, I mean, 86 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: that's some deeply ingrained troops right there, ingrained, ingrained, right 87 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: there you go. And we even see it show up 88 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: in the hardest rebel world of Game of Thrones, that's right, uh, 89 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: George R. Martin's universe there, of of wester Ross and beyond. 90 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: You see that ritual of breaking bread, of having bread 91 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: and salt when say, two warring families meet. In fact 92 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: I specifically remember no spoilers, but a specific specifically remember 93 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: a scene where two very antagonistic groups are meeting and 94 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: one of the characters is very insistent, let's get the 95 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: bread out, let's get the salt out. Let's go ahead 96 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: and break that bread, because that that alone maybe what 97 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: could prevent us all from dying here. So taking that 98 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: information and knowing that it might you know, flavor ha 99 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: ha um. The way that we behave this study about 100 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: altruism and bread is really interesting because it turns out 101 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: that the room is so influential that Researchers at the 102 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: University of Southern Brittany and France found that its mere 103 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: presence amped up altruism and strangers passing by a bread shop. 104 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: We're talking about seven seven percent of people who passed 105 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 1: a bakery with a robust smell of bread emanating from it. 106 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: Those people stopped to help a person pick up their 107 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: glove or handkerchief or tissue. In contrast with people passing 108 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: by a closed store, of which only fifty of those 109 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: um who stopped to help that confederate that person in 110 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: the study retrieve their snotty rag. It's amazing. It's it's 111 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: as if it ties into this this primordial food sharing 112 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: sort of vibe that we have. You know, something, something 113 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: just buried deep in the hind brain where there's a 114 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 1: smell of bread in the air, the smell of food, 115 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: a smell of sustenance. Therefore, maybe I should start being 116 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: nice to everyone, or at least a little less awful 117 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 1: on the chance that I could have some of that bread, 118 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: because ultimately that's part of my my whole genetic programming 119 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: is I need to eat, I need to breed, I 120 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: need to keep going. Ah, So you're saying that altruism 121 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: could be connected to the pleasure circuit, which we'll talk 122 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: about in a second. What I is, do you does 123 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: that actually affect crime statistics? Like if somebody's looking to 124 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: rob a fast food restaurant, do they go into subway 125 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: and suddenly feel a little like, I don't know, these 126 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: guys look like decent folks. I don't want to, uh, 127 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: you know, do a stick up job here. I'm going 128 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: to go down the street to the burger place. Yeah, 129 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: maybe maybe they grab a sub and they go down 130 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: to Burger, Burger King or Burger King. Would I would 131 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: be interested in seeing the results of such a study. 132 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: All right. Um wanted to point out that neuroscientists David 133 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: Lyndon said in an interview with Terry Gross fresh Air 134 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: that the average weight of an American between ninets and 135 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: sixty and now has gone up by an astonishing twenty 136 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: six pounds. And he says that's not because americans genomes 137 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: have changed significantly. It's because we have these thirty two 138 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: sodas and fast food and food corporations realizing that certain 139 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: combinations of flavors and textures produce craving. So again, it's 140 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: sort of like take the bread example, um that elicits 141 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: this idea that we're going to have this reward, that 142 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: there's a certain pleasure in that smell, there's a certain sustenance. 143 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: So I also wanted to point out that there is 144 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: a twenty thirteen survey by market research firm Technomic. They 145 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: looked at twenty two thousand, four d fifty nine adults 146 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: and they found of people who eat outside of the 147 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: home are prompted by cravings, and seventy who visit restaurants 148 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: more than once a week do so for a specific 149 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: dish that they crave. And can you guess the restaurants 150 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: that people hit up the most. It was interesting to 151 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: to look at the findings here because they're not necessarily 152 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: the places that I would crave, but the number one 153 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 1: on this list on the chart rather than the highest 154 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: ranking one Krispy Cream Donuts. And while I like to 155 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: believe I'm immune to the temptation of chris be Cream 156 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: Donuts today, I do know that there is a there 157 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: is an upscale donut place just down the street from 158 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: where I live, and I do feel a little bit 159 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: of the temptation to drop by there, uh not in 160 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: part because I know that it would be delicious. But 161 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: also there's just sort of the uh, you know, the 162 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: you're like a hero if you bring donuts somewhere, do 163 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 1: you bring you bring really nice donuts somewhere. I mean, 164 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 1: not not for my son. I wouldn't let him have 165 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: one of these things, but you know, just to bring 166 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 1: bring one home to some to the family or to 167 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: two friends and say, look, i am the bringer of 168 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: doughnuts and therefore I'm an okay guy. I've noticed that 169 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: an office culture, right on a Monday morning or Friday morning, 170 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: if you bring in a bunch of donuts, it's kind 171 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,479 Speaker 1: of like this grand gesture and everybody's like, wow, donuts, 172 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: like you know, like like it's the Victorian Agency when 173 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: brought in oranges. Um. But yeah, that that there's a 174 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: certain kind of power there. So it makes sense that 175 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: Krispy Kreme is occupying the top slot because they have everything, 176 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: and it's not just Krispy Creme, but donuts in general. 177 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: You've got the sweet, you've got the fatty, the bretty, um, 178 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: even the even some of the meat flavoring. Now, I 179 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: mean you can get the like one of the donuts 180 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: is really popular with the place I was talking about has. 181 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: It's like a like a a caramel sea salt caramel 182 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: topped with with not bacon DIBs per se, but bits 183 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: of bacon and uh and so yeah, you're getting the salty, 184 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: you're getting the sweet, you're getting the bretty, the fatty, 185 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: the meaty, all in one super stimuli lump of food. Yeah. 186 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: And you know what, I'm immune to the donuts and 187 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: I live around You're lucky, immune to the charms of 188 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: the donut, and I live by the way around the 189 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: corner from that place that you're talking about. And that's 190 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: because as an angsty team. My first job, or one 191 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: of my first jobs, was at Duncan Donuts, working the 192 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: six am to two pm shift on the weekends with 193 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: the conveyor belt. No no in the store. Like, I 194 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: didn't make the donuts. Um one of the best jobs 195 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: I had, but I smelled donuts and and then it 196 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: was disgusting and so getting pulled over all the time. Yeah, 197 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: people are just started sniffing me and licking my hair. 198 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: Uh So anyway, for me, donuts don't hold that power. 199 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: But I did think about something on this list. After 200 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: cold Stone Creamery, you have red Lobster as the first 201 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: kind of like restaurant restaurant. And I'm not a big 202 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: red lobster fan, but I have had those Cheddar Bay biscuits, 203 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: and I understand this. This might be my crave item 204 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: if I were to go out and seek something from 205 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: a restaurant each week. I agree because I'm the same 206 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: way you mentioned red lobster to me, and I'm instantly 207 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: gonna think seafood drowned in butter. I don't really want any, 208 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: but then I'm gonna remember that those those those biscuit things, 209 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: those Cheddar biscuits were so good. Now, why is this 210 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: gaming us in such a way. Well, it all has 211 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: to do with the metal or brain pleasure circuit. And 212 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: this is the region of the brain which is dependent 213 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: upon the neurotransmitter dopamine. And um, this is really essential 214 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: to our evolutionary survival if you look at it this way. 215 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: So it's a very ancient region of our brain, and 216 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: it exists originally because we want eating food and drinking 217 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: water and having sex to be pleasurable in order to 218 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: repeat this, to have children, to propagate our genes, survive 219 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: and pass on this to the next generation. Um, it 220 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: means that our ancestors could quickly identify which foods had 221 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: the dense caloric value that their bodies needed to support 222 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:37,079 Speaker 1: what what are really like huge daily energy expenditures. So, 223 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: as we saw in our episode about addiction, the problem 224 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: about hitting this kind of supernormal stimuli, as you say 225 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: over and over again, is that those dopamine receptors, those 226 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: D two receptors, they start to decrease and they need 227 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: more and more in order to get that same effect 228 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: of dopamine in your brain. So it's the same sort 229 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: of situation you see with someone who is addicted to 230 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: to to various drugs, to various illicit substances. There they 231 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: need more to get the fixed because because the circuits 232 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: are breaking down kind of under the load of this, uh, 233 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: this colossal stimuli. Yeah, when we looked at that World 234 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: Science Festival panel on addiction, they showed those three brains 235 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:28,239 Speaker 1: right the um I think it was a meth addict, Um, 236 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: it was an obese person and then a heroin addict, 237 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: and they all had a lack of D two receptors. 238 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: And so the interesting thing about this is that something 239 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: like of cases of severe BC are food addiction, with 240 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: only ten having to do with a metabolic defect. So 241 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: and you can see this power of these foods and 242 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: as kind of going to them over and over again 243 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: creating those pathways of addiction. So again, what's going to 244 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: make the brains sing the most with openmine? That's super 245 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: normal stimuli. And that's where I'm like that that's why 246 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: something like the Cheesecake Factory exists because I was like, 247 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: what is a good example of this cheesecake? Um, what's 248 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: an even better example a restaurant that fetishizes it? And 249 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: according to their website they have something like thirties seven 250 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: different types of cheesecakes available. And just to add I 251 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: think a little bit of injury to insult, they offer 252 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: something called the Skinny Liscious Menu, which I'm going to 253 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: assume is a wave too for people to eat like 254 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: maybe dinner with less calories and then rationalize that giant 255 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: cheesecake or yeah, I was, I was. I was wondering 256 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: is there going to be a smaller piece of cheesecake 257 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: or what? And do they have all types of cheesecake? 258 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: Did they have like savory cheesecakes? Because I had an 259 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: alligator cheesecake once in New Orleans? Who was tell me, 260 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: what do you mean? You had an alligator cheesecake, like 261 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: a cheesecake with with alligator, and it's it's everything that 262 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: is a cheesecake except savory and meaty via the meat 263 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: of an alligator. How was it? It was good? It 264 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: was really good and exceedingly rich, and it made you 265 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: feel like a bad person after you ate it. That 266 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: it's such like an Americana thing right there, alligator cheesecake 267 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: exactly shrinking bit of American If you're an adventurous eater, 268 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: look it up there. There are a few different places 269 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: to get it down there, all right. So it would 270 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: make sense that we have this this reaction to food. 271 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: And it would also make sense that when it comes 272 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: to engineering junk food that scientists leave nothing to chance. 273 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: And we're gonna take a quick break. When we get back, 274 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the techniques and the technology. 275 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: Hello there, won't you join me on the information elevator 276 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: this week? Ben Bullen of Stuff they Don't want you 277 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: to know, car stuff and brain stuff, will join me 278 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: on the elevator and we'll look at whether or not 279 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: he is a lire lire pants or fire. You can 280 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: find the Information Elevator on mind Stuff Show on YouTube. Hey, 281 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: we're back. Um, you know, I was thinking I mentioned 282 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: earlier the whole breaking of the bread. We talked about 283 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: how that the scent of the bread, the aroma of 284 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: the bread is pleasing and therefore inspires altruism. And we 285 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: mentioned Game of Thrones and the idea that you have 286 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: to rival houses coming together, and that smell of bread 287 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: and the ritual of the bread maybe all that keeps 288 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: them from tearing each other apart. It occurred to me 289 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: after you mentioned donuts in the office, when another situation 290 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: where you see this kind of peace offering made. And 291 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: that's when there's bad news in the office, or some 292 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: sort of major transition or some major pain in the 293 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: butt giant meetings HR stuff, or or in our case, 294 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: when our our our company recently changed corporate masters from 295 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: one dark overlord to another. And uh, not to imply 296 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: that they're they're dark or get your meaning, but you 297 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: know they're they're overlords. And and so what happens when 298 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: the transition is announced instantly there's some sort of baked 299 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: good in the office, right, big good fruit and some 300 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: coffee and some orange juice, but especially the smell of bread. 301 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: Get that bread smell in there. So that nobody kills 302 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: anybody well, and everybody feels like it's okay. Yeah, it's 303 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: okay because there's bread. You know. I wonder if law 304 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: firms should begin to use this tactic when mediating cases, right, 305 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: if they're trying not to go to court with the case, 306 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: maybe everybody shows up at the table and they break bread. 307 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: Would this actually, in fact, uh dial down the animosity 308 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: between the parties. What if when a police officer makes 309 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: an arrest, before they duck their head into the patrol car, 310 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: they stick a Kaiser roll in their mouth. You know, 311 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: I feel like there might be a lawsuit really arising 312 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: from that. Well, we would need to be gluten free 313 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: and it would need to be vegan, right, but some 314 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: sort of bait good. I mean, we are a litigious society. 315 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I states so or a police baton that's 316 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: actually a French French bread. I love that. I love 317 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: the image now and now I'm thinking about bobbies in 318 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: the UK, you know, yeah, alright, um, alright, So how 319 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: do these these food scientists get to that extra itchy 320 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: place in our brains? According to New York Times magazine 321 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: article The Extraordinary Science of Junk Food Freedom lay had 322 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: a formidable research complex near Dallas were nearly five hundred chemists, psychologists, 323 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: and technicians conducted research that cost up to thirty million year, 324 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: and the Science Core focused intense amount of resources on 325 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: questions of crunch, mouth feel, and aroma for each of 326 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: these items. And one of the items that they used 327 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: is a forty thousand dollar device that stimulates chewing to 328 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: test imperfect chips, which we'll talk about later. Chips is 329 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: like sort of like the old standard of junk food um, 330 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: which gets us to this whole chewing thing. Yeah, the 331 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: idea of how much chewing is optimal, right, because because 332 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 1: apparently the whole situation is you want some chewing because 333 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: you need to be needed chew your food. Chewing the 334 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: food is part of the enjoyment of it when we've 335 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: taste it. And this is an interest. If you ever 336 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: really stop and think about a food that's pleasing you 337 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: and try to dissect why it's pleasing you, it's almost 338 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: an unanswerable question. Have you ever done that. There's a 339 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: there's some sort of dish you're looking forward to, it's 340 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: in your mouth, and then you're trying to break it down. 341 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: Why am I enjoying this. Am I enjoying it? Do 342 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: I enjoy? Why am I going to swallow it? Like? 343 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: Because once I swallowed, I can't taste it. Yeah, And 344 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: it's funny because we don't think about it in slow mode. 345 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: But if you did, you would realize that that saliva 346 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: is actually releasing some of the aromas of the food 347 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: and that in and in and of itself, is making 348 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: a more pleasurable experience. But most of us kind of 349 00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: just rushed through it, and um, the problem without is 350 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: that the faster you rush through chewing, the less your 351 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,239 Speaker 1: stomach has a chance to kind of catch up with 352 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: feeling sated and send signals to the brain that says 353 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: stop right. But this is one of the key tactics 354 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: in food engineering or junk food engineering, is if you 355 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: can reduce the amount of chewing, you can stuff more 356 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: stuff into your your gaping maw, and you can feed 357 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: the addiction more and you can get to the bottom 358 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: of that chip bag faster. And companies kind of want 359 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: you to do that, right, because then you're just going 360 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 1: to buy more and more of the thing. Yeah, I mean, 361 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: they have to put that suggested serving on the side, 362 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: but really they don't want you to stop. They want 363 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: you to to plow through bag after bag, and if 364 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: it takes forever to chew each each kernel, each chip, 365 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: each families fun sized piece, then it's gonna take forever. 366 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,239 Speaker 1: And that's gonna cut into how much fast food they 367 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: can sell you and how much fast food they can 368 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: put in that mount. Yeah. Oh. Dr Lennon, who wrote 369 00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: the I believe it's called the Compass of Pleasure. In 370 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: an interview again with Terry Gross is a separate one, 371 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: Um said that much of the meat in chain restaurants 372 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: has been mechanically tenderized and injected with marinite to dissolve 373 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: in your mouth, and it's lubricated for swallowing by high 374 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: water content, and so he says, in essence, the factory 375 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: has done half of your chewing and swallowing for use 376 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: that you can eat more. And he says that's one 377 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: of the things that chain restaurants have figured out now. 378 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: Gail vance Seville, who's the founder and president of Sensory Spectrum, 379 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: this is a consumer research firm, says that in the 380 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: forty five years that she's been in the food business, 381 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: they used to have foods that they chewed fifteen times 382 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: and twenty times and thirty times before they were swallowed. 383 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: But now she says, there's rarely a food out there 384 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: outside of say, like a sweet chewy candy you have 385 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,719 Speaker 1: to chew more than twelve times before it's gone. And 386 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: so the idea is that you you're getting these quick 387 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: hits and you're onto that next pleasure or seeking that pleasure. 388 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: And I thought that was not fascinating because probably a 389 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: good example of this chicken McNuggets, which is if you've 390 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: ever looked at that processes, you know, the meat is 391 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: basically turned into a paste and then it's just molded 392 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: and cooked. And that is that it's made like that 393 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: because you can consume it faster, Yeah, and you can 394 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: make more from the chicken. It's just it's it's like 395 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: a lot of our our meat products out there. It's 396 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: it's what's left and what can we do with that 397 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: that can then be sold as a food product. And 398 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: then when it's kind of patted down like that, you 399 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: have more surface area to put all of the fatty 400 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: bread crumbs on it to even amp up that product 401 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: more so that your brain is like, oh, nice, deep fried, 402 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: I'll take more. And then some sort of gelatinous sugary 403 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: substance that you can dip it into and then and 404 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: you go yeah, now, um cola companies are looking at 405 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: something called sensory specific satiety, and this is the tendency 406 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: for big, distinct flavors to overwhelm the brain, which makes 407 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: the brain kind of say whoa, that's that's enough, and 408 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: it depresses the desire to have more. So they have 409 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: to keep this in mind when coming up with just 410 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: the right blend of sweetness and flavors. And they're trying 411 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: to reach something called the bliss point. Like this is 412 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: an actual industry term and um that's a term that 413 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: came up in research and development for Dr Pepper's Vanilla soda. 414 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,959 Speaker 1: It's that that point where the project is firing on 415 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: all cylinders on your brain, but it's not overwhelming you, 416 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: right yeah. And and similarly in economics that it's seen 417 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: is that the point of consumption where any further increase 418 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: would make the consumer less satisfied. So in a sense, 419 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: whether you're talking about flavor or quantity, it's it's that 420 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: point where it's good, but before you hate yourself. Like 421 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: if this, if you're ever eating something, this is great. 422 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: If it was a little more sweet, I would hate myself. 423 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: Then you are at the bliss point. Yes, you're right, 424 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: it's like before you go into the shame spiral. It's 425 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: just a couple just before that. And the funny thing 426 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 1: is is that the companies can back off just aspect 427 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: from that sugar, and just respect from that sugar means 428 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: that they can you know, if you're especially if you're 429 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 1: manufacturing billions of ounces of the stuff, you're actually gonna 430 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: have cost savings. So they're doing it for both the 431 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: satiation point, but also so that they can save a 432 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: couple of pennies, you know, parounts. Well, that's interesting, the 433 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: one area where a junk food company would want to 434 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: cut down on the sugar just for pure cost reasons. Yeah. 435 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: And the funny things is that it's so miniscule that 436 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: it really doesn't affect like that the actual um health 437 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: or nutrition of a drink. Yeah, because ultimately there's so 438 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: much sugar and most of these products that even even 439 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: backing out up a little bit is really doing nothing 440 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,719 Speaker 1: to the overall potency of the thing. Um. I mean, 441 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: it's just ridiculous. I was eating a lot of these, 442 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, snack bars until recently and even though you know, 443 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: you look at it and you start breaking down the 444 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: contents of those things, even the ones that are more 445 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: greenwashed and healthy sounding are actually like it's like eating 446 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: a candy bar. It is. And even something like yo 447 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: play yogurt is chock full of sugar, and in fact 448 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: they're serving is has more sugar in it than Lucky 449 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: Charms cereal. And this used to be just like a 450 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: humble yogurt that people would have for breakfast, and they 451 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: transformed the whole yogurt industry by adding sugar into it 452 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: and making it much more of an addictive go to 453 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: thing for people. Yeah, it's the yogurt just becomes a 454 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: vehicle for the sugar you're having for for breakfast or 455 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: your snack. Yeah. And the yogurt has that creaminess element 456 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: too in some cases the fat in it that really 457 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: makes it even more desirable. Um, that's because it creates 458 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: this kind of mouth feel. I'm sure you've heard that 459 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: in foodie terms, for the mouth feel is creamy and 460 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: and the funny thing about this is that that creaminess 461 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: and that fat contributes to a smooth, an even bullest 462 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: of masticated food in your mouth, and that is pleasing 463 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: all right, because it's the idea that this, uh, the 464 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: food has taken the form that it needs to carry 465 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,239 Speaker 1: on through my digestive system and so that I can 466 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 1: absorb its nutrients and therefore it's almost like it's pre 467 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: chewed and therefore pleasurable. Yeah, and it's lubricated, it's ready 468 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: for action in your digestive The mother company has spit 469 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: has spat it directly into my mouth, and now it's 470 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: traded to swallow, which, by the way, is something that 471 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 1: people have done through the ages, is to premasticate food 472 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: for infants. But anyway, that's neither here nor there, but 473 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: maybe it is. Maybe there's there's a sort of hard 474 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: wired feeling of that with this um premasticated food. Really now, 475 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: there's something called the Malliard reaction that the industry uses, 476 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: and this is I did not know about this. This 477 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: is cooking carbohydrate rich foods that temperature is high enough 478 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: to produce that yellow or brown surface, that kind of 479 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: roasted quality, it kind of toastedness basically. And that's what 480 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: kind of horrified at me about this. When I first 481 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: started reading about it, I was like, oh, great, now 482 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: I can't I can't even eat toast the science science 483 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: of nutrition and carcent gene has ruined toast for me. 484 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: So what is left if I can't even toast some bread? 485 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: It's not quite as simple as that. And really, what 486 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: we're the real villains in the in the situation are 487 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: going to be you're deeply fried foods, not not as 488 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: much some lightly brown toast. Yeah, because what it does 489 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: is it produces something called a churlamide, and this is 490 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: a known cancer causing agent when when it's consumed at 491 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: higher levels, and it is potentially a dangerous chemical. And 492 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: you could argue that there's probably not enough of it 493 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: on say you're cheetos to warrant any danger. But has 494 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: anyone ever taken like a tenure survey of people who 495 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: eat Cheetos, you know, two packs a day, to see 496 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: what that effect might be in their bodies? I don't 497 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: think so. Yeah, after I read over, the material I 498 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: feel like they take home is not a void toast, 499 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: but rather, here's another reason to think twice about going 500 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: too often to the fried food trough. You know, it's 501 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: one more reason on the list of reasons to maybe 502 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: keep French fries or fried onion rings a special treat 503 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: as opposed to a daily indulgence. Well, and it's even 504 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: baked too, like cheetos um, which this was kind of 505 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: horrific to me for some reason. I don't know why 506 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: it makes sense to me, you know how they kind 507 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: of melt on your tongue. Let's which ones are Cheetos? 508 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: Are those the ones that have a lot of air 509 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: in them? Are the ones that are look kind of 510 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: like there's one that kind of looks like orange um 511 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: marsupial kind Yeah, I mean it's like a pool noodle 512 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: that's been that's toasty looking. Yeah. Yeah. The Cheetos has 513 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: more has more structure. Okay, I'm confusing with the cheese puffs. Yeah, 514 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: because cheese puffs are the ones that are mostly air 515 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: and then the other ones look like like something. But 516 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: you're right, cheese puffs have what is called a higher 517 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: vanishing caloric density than cheetos becausecheetas you have to break 518 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: down a little bit more, although they still kind of melt. 519 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: And this is something that food scientists try to achieve 520 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: in a product since the melting quality of the food 521 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: fools your brain into thinking that there's no calories in 522 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: it and that you can just keep eating it. Forever. 523 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: So it's gaming your brain to think like, oh, yeah, 524 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 1: I can eat the whole pack. You're not gonna you know, 525 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: fill up from this. So it's just the same appeal 526 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: of ice cream. Then in addition to ice cream, sugar 527 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: noose and fattiness and and and and mouth feel and 528 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: everything else. I think, so, Seth, I would wager about 529 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: that the fat is probably detected more by the body 530 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: and so you can't eat as much of it. But 531 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: if you're looking at something like a cheese puff in particular, 532 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: which is full of air and it melts really quickly, 533 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: then your brain is going to be like, oh, I 534 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: didn't realize that. You know, It's ten minutes later and 535 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: I'm at the bottom of this package and I'm looking 536 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,239 Speaker 1: for like a little bits and pieces of it. All right, 537 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: But now let's we've talked about cheetos, we talked about 538 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: cheese but best, but let's return to the granddaddy of 539 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: all junk food items, the potato chip, which I can 540 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: go weaken the niece for if it's the salt and 541 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: vinegar kind. Yeah, that's There are some really nice chips 542 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: out there, and some of them are you know, their upscale, 543 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: they're a little artsy, they're they're a little greenwashed, and 544 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: therefore you look at me like this is all natural? 545 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: I can I can get a whole bag of these, Yeah, 546 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: And it turns out a lot of people do. There's 547 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: a two thousand and eleven study that was published in 548 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: the New England Journal of Medicine and it's all about 549 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: weight gain. What they did is they looked at a 550 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty thousand, eight hundred and seventies of then 551 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: men and women who were all professionals in the health field. 552 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: So presumably these people would have a sort of a 553 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: base knowledge of of of what is good for you 554 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: and what's not. And using data back to the researchers 555 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: monitored everything that they ate, as well as their physical 556 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: activity and smoking. And what they found is that every 557 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: four years, the participants exercised less, they watched TV more, 558 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: and they gained an average of three point three five 559 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: pounds every four years. So the top contributors to weight 560 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: gain included red meat, processed meats, sugar sweetened beverages, and 561 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: potatoes including mash and fredge fries, but the largest contributor 562 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: was potato chips. Like that that right there tells you 563 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: how addictive these little crisps are. Yeah, I mean, I 564 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: mean it's the cliche, right that they almost enforced the 565 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: idea that you just can't stop eating them once you 566 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: open that bag. And and and there's a lot going 567 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: on here, a lot more than I thought, because you know, 568 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: if you'd ask me previously, I would have said, all right, 569 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: with the pitch of obviously you're getting salty, obviously you're 570 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: gonna get you can get some oil, and then there's 571 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: some market either the fat, and then there's some marginal 572 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: vegetable content there as well. But but there's there's a 573 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: little more, yeah, that you get the sugar that exists 574 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: not as an additive but in the actual starch of 575 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: the potato potato itself. And so starch in turn causes 576 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: the glucose levels in the blood to spike, and that 577 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: can cause more of that craving in your brain for it. Um. 578 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: So the other thing about this is that there's a 579 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: sort of physics to the potato chip that is very appealing. 580 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: So you remember that device that we talked about that 581 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:26,239 Speaker 1: choose and premasticates food. That device has also helped the 582 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: industry to try to understand that people like a chip 583 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: that snaps with about four pounds of pressure per square inch, 584 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: and so you could say that there's definitely an arn't 585 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: to a kind of physics to it. And Mary Roach 586 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: actually talked about this in the New York Times article 587 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: called the Marvels of the Mouth. Yeah, I mean the 588 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: the idea that you when that when that I think 589 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about this before a bit, when you crunch 590 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: into that chip, when it when it crunches in your mouth, Um, 591 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: we're getting a sense. The brain is getting a sense 592 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: that we're eating something fresh, so like like yes, like salary. 593 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: The brain is saying this is basically celery we're eating here, 594 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: and therefore we should eat a lot of it because 595 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: it's fresh and it's not going to be fresh forever. 596 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: Chow down. Yeah. To get that kind of snap, that fracture, 597 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: you need crack speeds of the chip of three hundred 598 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: meters per second. That's the speed of sound. And so 599 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: Mary Roach describes it as the sonic boom inside of 600 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: your mouth. And then uh Dr Tom Vanpolet, who has 601 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: been studying the crunching of chips for seven years, had 602 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: said that as just as you say that crispiness, that 603 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: crunchiness appeals to us because it has that sort of 604 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: freshness that our ancestors would have sought out in vegetables 605 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: and fruit. So not only is the chip um very 606 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: appealing to us because of the sugar content and the 607 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: salt and the fat, but because it's mimicking something that 608 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: would have been important to us um in our ancestral survival. Yeah. 609 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: And and and on top of that, and this was 610 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,719 Speaker 1: in some materials that you you sent me earlier. Just 611 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: the the crinkliness of the bag piz into that it's 612 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: almost like a harbinger of the of the crispiness of 613 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: the chip. You hear the bag crinkling, and and and 614 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: that makes you start thinking about the crunchiness of the 615 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: of the chip. It's almost like you're you're again, you're 616 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: reaching in with your caveman hands into some crisp, crunchy 617 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: plant to to grab your your lunch. Yeah. And that's 618 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: what gets us to this idea of sound symbolism. And 619 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: in two thousand and four, Charles Spence and neuroscientists at 620 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 1: Oxford University had subjects bite into all told about one 621 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: and eighty potato chips. And what he did is he 622 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: manipulated the that bite or crunch sound with directional microphones 623 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: and found that when researchers amplified the crunching sounds, that 624 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: the subjects rated the chips as crisp ear, but when 625 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: he muffled their crunching noises, they scored the chip as 626 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: less crisp. So it is really the full experience that 627 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: you're bringing to the food. And that's that sound stabolism 628 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: of oh this is fresh, it's good. Yeah, the chip 629 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: that is so crunchy that you have to turn up 630 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: the television set while you're while you're watching it because 631 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: the sound is deafening in set your own skull. So 632 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: think of all that when you the next time you 633 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: open a bag of potato chips, Because this is an 634 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: item that has been gamed, that has been manipulated to 635 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: get the maximum response out of you the user. Yeah, 636 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: free do lay thirty million dollars in that one year 637 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: to try to create the perfect chip for you to 638 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: return to over and over again. And for the most part, 639 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: you think, oh, well, probably this isn't a big deal. 640 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of this is just you know, 641 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: little power. But we've talked about this before. We've talked 642 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,879 Speaker 1: about how these pathways are created in the brain. It's 643 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: very hard to try to get over these types of addictions, 644 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: so you know, it takes a little bit more than 645 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: just knowing that it's bad for you. And I wanted 646 00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: to bring up this example of microwave popcorn, especially that 647 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: will yield butter flavor. That you see, it uses flavoring 648 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: chemicals like diacutle and pentadeon which are dissipated into the 649 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: air by the heating process. Not something you want to 650 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: breathe in, right. Well, Um, a guy named Wayne Watson 651 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: was awarded seven million dollars when he seed the manufacturer 652 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: and retailers of microwave buttered popcorn that caused him to 653 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: develop something called popcorn lung after he ate two bags 654 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: daily for ten years. So you could argue that it's 655 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: just it's not it's not even just an obesity issue. 656 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's it's some of the chemicals that are affecting 657 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,720 Speaker 1: us in adverse ways. And clearly here it's the artificiality 658 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: of our food. You know, I mean, this is not 659 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: a matter of saying, oh, all that butter on the 660 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: popcorn was bad for you. This is a matter of 661 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: the butter flavoring. It was, there's a careful chemical concoction 662 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: had this dire effect on him, Which brings us to 663 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: this analogy of cigarette which isn't a perfect analogy, but 664 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: if you consider that cigarette manufacturers have been known uh, 665 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: you know particularly, I think it was in the eighties 666 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: that this came to light that for a number of 667 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: years they were amping up some of the addictive chemicals 668 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: in the cigarettes to further addict their customers. Could you 669 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: say this tame of junk food. Yeah, I would think so. 670 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: I mean your starting I think basically you're starting point 671 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,720 Speaker 1: is uh is a little less evil, but you're still 672 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: ramping it up. You're still trying to make it more 673 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: addictive and and in opening yourself to the situations where 674 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: someone ends up eating your product product exclusively and then 675 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: paying the price for it. So, about fifteen years ago, 676 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: vice president of Kraft, Michael mud He went to a 677 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:56,280 Speaker 1: industry meeting process food industry meeting meeting, and the meeting 678 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: was meant to talk about the rising obesity and the 679 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: manufactured foods that they were creating, and he was hoping 680 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: that that all the members of these various companies would 681 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: be open to this idea of regulating their foods um. 682 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: Unfortunately that was not that did not happen at that meeting. 683 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,879 Speaker 1: But I thought it was striking because fifteen years ago 684 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 1: he presented, uh, this whole idea of what they were 685 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: doing and how it was affecting people. And he included 686 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: the following quote in this presentation from Yale University professor 687 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: of psychology and public health Kelly Brownel, which is quote, 688 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: as a culture, we've become upset by the tobacco companies 689 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: advertising to children, but we sit oddly by while the 690 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,359 Speaker 1: food companies do the very same thing. And we could 691 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: make claim that the toll taken on the public health 692 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: via poor diet rivals that taken by tobacco fifteen years ago, 693 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 1: before we really even saw this huge expansion of obesity 694 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: statistics that we have today. It's a little startling, it is. 695 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: So tell me this, Yes, this evening, after my son 696 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,800 Speaker 1: goes to bed, I am going over to a friend's 697 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: house to play board games. And said friend, let's call 698 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: him Greg, is going to inevitably have two bags on 699 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: the table. One is going to be normal Twizzlers and 700 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,240 Speaker 1: one is going to be this other variant of Twizzler 701 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,359 Speaker 1: that include no, no, no, it's rainbows and each one 702 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: has like a creamy filling. So what what am I 703 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: to do? How am I going to resist having that 704 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: first twizzler and then the subsequent u you know, thirty twizzlers? 705 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: You know, honestly, I think that you you eat pretty healthy, right, Yeah, 706 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: it seems to me. I feel like that's not a 707 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: huge risk for you. What I see is that the 708 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: problem is is that fast food, junk food is so 709 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: inexpensive and easy now for manufacturers to produce that a 710 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: lot of people are going to this as their mean sustenance. 711 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: So if you were like, man, I'm hitting up the 712 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,360 Speaker 1: KFC again today, kind I pick you up something, and 713 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: this was happening all the time, I might be like Robert, dude, 714 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,919 Speaker 1: remember the kraal mind um? But you know, I really 715 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: think that's that's the problem, and that is also the 716 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: problem for people who are um in lower income brackets 717 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: is that it's a lot easier and convenient to go 718 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: to these foods instead of fresh foods, which are more expensive. 719 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: And of course availability also placed into that the whole 720 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: idea of of having food deserts, where whereas an individual 721 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: does not have access to those healthier foods, even if 722 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 1: they are a little bit more expensive than the than 723 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: the unhealthy options. And you're talking about food desserts in 724 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: that there there have been plenty of studies that will 725 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: show you that in lower income areas there are not 726 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,439 Speaker 1: grocery stores as readily available. Therefore, you know you could 727 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: hit up that KFC or that McDonald's a lot easier 728 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: than you could to travel the ten to twenty miles 729 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,359 Speaker 1: to find a grocery store exactly. All right, So there 730 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: you have it, junk food, a little more insight into 731 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 1: why we love that, why we cannot resist it, what 732 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: it's doing to us, how it's gaming us, and of 733 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: course about the dark masters of dark food that engineer 734 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: it to dominate us. I know that everyone has some 735 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: comments to make on this, so we'd love to hear 736 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: from what what fast food item holds the most influence 737 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,760 Speaker 1: over you? What fast food items have you managed to defeat? 738 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: Fast food or junk food. I'm kind of using the 739 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: two words that interchangeably for some reason, but but let 740 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,279 Speaker 1: us know. Share your stories, share your tips, share your alternatives, 741 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: and because we would love to hear from you, and 742 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,319 Speaker 1: we'd love to share some of your content on the show. Yeah, 743 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,279 Speaker 1: I'd also like to know if commercials affect you. I 744 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: was thinking about this that I think there's one of 745 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 1: the Kardashians did a Roy Junior Burger ad campaign. I 746 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: don't know if I've got that chain right, but I 747 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,359 Speaker 1: think I was like, you know, skimpy bathing suit with 748 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: the burger, with like the sweaty bacon falling out of 749 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: it and like the listening orbs of her breasts, and 750 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: I thought, if there's nothing more super normal to me 751 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,320 Speaker 1: live than that? Yeah, I mean that actually ties in 752 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: directly within with a study I was looking at recently 753 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: that I've blogged about, and I have a video coming 754 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: out about the the idea of what did they call it. 755 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: It's not the bikini effect, um, but it's something that 756 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 1: to to that effect. And the idea is that if 757 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,959 Speaker 1: a male UM in this case, say a heterosexual male, 758 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: looks at a picture of a model on a bikini, 759 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,240 Speaker 1: sees a woman in a bikini, or even just handles 760 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: a braw their willpower lessons like there's it makes the 761 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 1: primal male, you know, want to to mate, to to 762 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: to give into his impulse, but that impulse will will 763 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: then manifest itself in the form of say, um, buying 764 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,919 Speaker 1: some some junk food that they know they don't need, 765 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: eating some junk food in the office place, or ordering 766 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,360 Speaker 1: something off of Amazon that they normally would have the 767 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: willpower to resist. Now that's not surprising to me if 768 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 1: I especially think about it in the context of the 769 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: bread example and altrsm. You know something that's simple changing 770 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: your behavior in tapping into that pleasure circuitry. So very interesting. 771 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,359 Speaker 1: Let us know your thoughts on that. We definitely want 772 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: to hear it, and uh, you can find us at 773 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 1: the Mothership, Yes, Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 774 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: There that's where you'll find all the podcast episodes, all 775 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: the videos, all the blog post links out to our 776 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,840 Speaker 1: social media accounts such as Twitter, Facebook, Tumbler, Google Plus, 777 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: our YouTube page which is mind stuff Show. Go there, 778 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 1: subscribe to us, follow us, and you'll stay up to 779 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: date on all the cool video projects that we have 780 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: coming out now and they are pumping out in the future. 781 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,400 Speaker 1: And you can send us an email if you'd like 782 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:45,240 Speaker 1: at Blow the Mind at house to Works dot com 783 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is 784 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: that how Stuff Works dot Com