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Speaker 1: Hey, hurdlers, Emily a body here bringing you episode eighty

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Speaker 1: six of Hurdle, a podcast that talks to everyone from

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Speaker 1: entrepreneurs to top CEOs and athletes about how they've gotten

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Speaker 1: through tough times hurdles of sorts by leaning in to wellness. Today,

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Speaker 1: I'm bringing you my conversation with Knox Robinson. He is

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Speaker 1: known to some as first Run on Instagram. He's a

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Speaker 1: writer and runner living here in Brooklyn, New York. We've

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Speaker 1: known each other for some time, and I have been anxious,

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Speaker 1: to say the least, to have an opportunity to sit

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Speaker 1: down and really get to know this guy who has

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Speaker 1: the opportunity, who has somehow found his way into logging

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Speaker 1: miles with some of the best of them like Mo

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Speaker 1: Fara and Kipchogi. Before we get into Knox's story, I

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Speaker 1: want to take a minute to say thank you to

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Speaker 1: my sponsors that helped me bring you Hurdle week after week.

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Speaker 1: I promise after these shout outs, I will bring you

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Speaker 1: the podcast uninterrupted. So starting off with athletics, I shake

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Speaker 1: up Athletic Greens every day pretty much when I come

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Speaker 1: back in from my morning run, and that's because it

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Speaker 1: just makes me feel better. Aside from the fact that

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Speaker 1: it gives me a little bit more mental clarity to

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Speaker 1: have on my to do list. They are offering Hurdle

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Speaker 1: And I was actually sitting at dinner with a friend

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Speaker 1: the other night and getting into why it is that

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Speaker 2: They're offering hurdle listeners a special deal.

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Speaker 1: dot com. That's whoop dot com and use the code

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Speaker 1: fifteen percent off any membership and to optimize the way

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Speaker 1: you train.

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Speaker 2: All right, so now let's talk about Knox.

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Speaker 1: I Uh, the best part of this interview, aside from

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Speaker 1: the amazing stories, was the fact that we did it

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Speaker 1: in Knox's home, and I love that I had the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to really get to know a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about the guy that I thought I knew.

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Speaker 2: In today's episode, he tells me.

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Speaker 1: About growing up in the San Diego area and watching

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Speaker 1: his dad run and going to the track himself as

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Speaker 1: a Division one athlete at Wake Forest. He continues on

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Speaker 1: to talk to me about a riff that he developed

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Speaker 1: with his college teammates after an altercation of sorts at

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Speaker 1: a party, which actually led him to lean away from

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Speaker 1: a sport that he loved so much for almost about

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Speaker 1: ten years. We talked about everything from his time being

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Speaker 1: the editor in chief of a magazine called Fader and

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Speaker 1: a cover interview with Kanye to traveling the globe running

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Speaker 1: with some of the best of them. What motivated him

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Speaker 1: to start the New York City Running Crew, Black Roses,

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Speaker 1: what Black Roses means to him, what it's like to

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Speaker 1: run a personal best marathon that hovers around the two

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Speaker 1: hour and thirty minute mark seriously, and not only rank

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Speaker 1: in the top one hundred men running the New York

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Speaker 1: City Marathon not once, but twice. And I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: him for his time and again just for welcoming me

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Speaker 1: into his home and for being open and honest in

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Speaker 1: such a really beautiful way. As always, Emily a body

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Speaker 1: on Instagram at Hurdle Podcast. If you have a hurdle

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Speaker 1: moment of your own to share you just want to

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Speaker 1: say hi, feel free to reach out to me over email.

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Speaker 1: It's Emily at hurdle dot us. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: it for now. With that, let's get to hurdling. Today,

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting down with Knox Robinson. He is a writer,

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Speaker 1: a runner. Anything else should be thrown to the tap here.

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Speaker 3: I'm a father of son, a partner, a quasi coach,

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Speaker 3: quasi quasi coach.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, in some ways I don't believe in like certifications

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Speaker 3: and that sort of credential making. Right, A lot of

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Speaker 3: times the very certification process was used to disenfranchise underrepresented

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Speaker 3: folks or poor folks, black folks in this country. So

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Speaker 3: for instance, led abatement, if you need a led abatement certification,

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Speaker 3: they made it inaccessible to be a lead, a lead

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Speaker 3: remover from from houses or schools or bridges or whatever.

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Speaker 3: So a lot of times these days, much respect to

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Speaker 3: everybody out there with you know, credentialed coaching, but for me,

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Speaker 3: I just like to do it based on my experience

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Speaker 3: and my inspirations and having like studied master coaches for

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Speaker 3: most of my life.

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Speaker 1: And of course, when we say coaching here, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about run coaching. Sure, sure, unless is there another coaching

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Speaker 1: we want to talk about?

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Speaker 3: No? I mean, you know, but of course, speaking self advantageously,

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Speaker 3: I'd say that like run coaching is life coaching, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: for better or for worse, because running is such an intimate,

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Speaker 3: you know, expression of who we are. That like, once

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Speaker 3: you take up or endeavor to coach someone to run

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Speaker 3: a five k run a marathon, you end up like

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Speaker 3: with much more on your hands.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's true. I think all the time about

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Speaker 1: how I one of my dearest friends is a certified trainer.

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Speaker 1: Talk about certifications. But I met her because an agency

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Speaker 1: connected us for me to work out with her, and

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Speaker 1: after about like two months of us working out together,

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Speaker 1: we stopped working out together and started just hanging out

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Speaker 1: all the time, and she became, you know, one of

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Speaker 1: my most respected and trusted confidants. I also don't want

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Speaker 1: to skip over how good of a runner you are,

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Speaker 1: so let's talk about that a little bit. So we

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Speaker 1: have a marathon pr of two thirty three. Correct, that's insane.

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Speaker 3: It felt insane at the time. I definitely was insane

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Speaker 3: at the time it happened.

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Speaker 1: Where were you?

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Speaker 3: I was in Berlin, and uh, you know it was

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Speaker 3: this year was after breaking two, and so Kip Chog

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Speaker 3: kind of came into town obviously in peak condition, and

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Speaker 3: before the race, everyone was saying like, oh, he loves

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Speaker 3: these conditions. It was a little cool, a little rainy,

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Speaker 3: and everyone's like, ah, this he's going to get the

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Speaker 3: world record because he loves running in the rain, because

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Speaker 3: it makes him feel like, you know, he's running in

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Speaker 3: the forest of Capta Gat back home in Kenya. So

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Speaker 3: I go to my squad, we're all racing. I was like,

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Speaker 3: this is Kip choke weather. We're all getting hit it today.

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Speaker 3: This is Everything's perfect. We all went out ran crazy

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Speaker 3: in the rain. I ran this pr and then afterwards

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Speaker 3: Kip Chokey said he didn't get the world record because

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Speaker 3: it was a raining and he hates the weather. I

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Speaker 3: was like, I was with him.

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Speaker 1: I think it's also important to note that you are

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Speaker 1: so ingrained and knowledgeable on the run culture. The typical

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Speaker 1: hurdler or listener may not completely be as up to

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Speaker 1: speed as you are, and I think that's something that's

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Speaker 1: really interesting about you, and definitely why I wanted to

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Speaker 1: sit down with you is because of your vast knowledge

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Speaker 1: of the sport, of the history, and and really because

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Speaker 1: you've you've gotten out there and run some miles with

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Speaker 1: some of the best of them. I mean, if we're

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Speaker 1: defining the best of them as the fastest of them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting, you know, like at any given point

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Speaker 3: in my life, I've come to realize that, you know,

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Speaker 3: I've never been close to being the best, but I've

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Speaker 3: always bizarrely been around runners who were the best in

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Speaker 3: that context. So in high school I ended up training

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Speaker 3: with some you know, some some some tough dudes from

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Speaker 3: across the tracks who still hold track records in New

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Speaker 3: York State to this day. Ran ran with these kind

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Speaker 3: of uh tough, tough, tough dudes in college. The day

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Speaker 3: I walked into the locker room for you know, the

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Speaker 3: first day of practice, half of the guys or half

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Speaker 3: of the United States Junior cross country team was represented

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Speaker 3: in the locker room, like we had like three guys

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Speaker 3: on the USA team, Like those are my teammates. And

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Speaker 3: then later on to have had interesting and unexpected friendships

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Speaker 3: with Leo Manzano, who you know, got a silver medal

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Speaker 3: in London in twenty twelve, or Mofarra and Abdi Abdi Raman,

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Speaker 3: incredible athletes like Shannon Rowberry, Tremier Moser, and so it's

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Speaker 3: just been Ali Keifer. So it's just been cool to

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Speaker 3: have been in constant conversation and proximity with some of

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Speaker 3: the best and really study their practices. And maybe that's

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Speaker 3: kind of one of the things that first sparked this

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Speaker 3: iteration of my personal running journey in terms of the

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Speaker 3: intersection of running on culture, is that I was really

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Speaker 3: starting to take some of the practices and the ideas

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Speaker 3: and the belief systems of some of the best athletes

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Speaker 3: in the world and thought about how I could share

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Speaker 3: that with you know, passionate everyday athletes like you know,

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Speaker 3: the kind we see here in New York.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so how are you doing that?

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Speaker 3: Well? You know, a lot of times, you know, we

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Speaker 3: might joke about this idea of marginal gains, and a

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Speaker 3: lot of times marginal gains might be euphemism for various

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Speaker 3: sorts of gray area cheating. Whether that's you know, Team

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Speaker 3: Sky in the Tour de France swapping out their mattresses

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Speaker 3: when they're on tour, staying in different hotel rooms and that,

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Speaker 3: or it might be sort of as we see from

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Speaker 3: Oregon projects, doing stuff that's not necessarily illegal, but it

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Speaker 3: is not ethical. But the idea is interesting, what are

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Speaker 3: the things, the little things that we can do in

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Speaker 3: our lives to push our performance as people and partners

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Speaker 3: as citizens forward. You know, whether that's getting better sleep,

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Speaker 3: or what if that's engaging in a mindfulness practice. You know,

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Speaker 3: what if that's shifting our diet and our nutrition left

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Speaker 3: or right and sort of eating more sustainably for our

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Speaker 3: planet but also more sustainably for our bodies and our community.

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Speaker 3: So those sort of marginal gains I like to think

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Speaker 3: of as things that you can sort of learn from

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Speaker 3: elite runners or elite athletes and bring that into our

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Speaker 3: own lives. And then on a running level, you know,

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Speaker 3: just seeing what it takes to be the best. And

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Speaker 3: that doesn't mean like knocking yourself out in a workout,

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Speaker 3: but like, how do you even like structure your pursuit

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Speaker 3: of excellence? I guess that's what I'm saying is when

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Speaker 3: you're thinking about elite athletes, they have a structured approach

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Speaker 3: to being the best, and it's interesting to look at

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Speaker 3: how that's systematized and organized, and then again how we

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Speaker 3: can bring that into our own lives.

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Speaker 1: So we're into running these days. Growing up in San Diego,

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Speaker 1: were you an active kid?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, and how could you not be? I mean,

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Speaker 3: you're just like living there between the mountains and the beach.

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Speaker 3: So growing up, it was all these childhood memories of

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Speaker 3: you know, camping in the Onzabarigo Desert with my family obviously,

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Speaker 3: always at the beach and La Joya, going into the

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Speaker 3: mountains to mining towns and exploring sort of the history

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Speaker 3: of California and all those respects, and so yeah, I've

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Speaker 3: always been sometimes I reflect like I've always been outdoors,

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Speaker 3: getting rained.

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Speaker 1: On from a young age to Berlin Marathon prs. All Right,

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Speaker 1: so growing up in San Diego, you're active kid. You

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Speaker 1: go to college at Wake Forest, and are you running

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Speaker 1: in college?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I ran for the first year, year and a half, No,

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Speaker 3: first Yeah, first year and a half of school and yeah,

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Speaker 3: those incredibles A D one program and again our distance

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Speaker 3: program was, you know, one of the best in the country.

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Speaker 3: So it was really inspiring and also incredibly daunting to be,

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Speaker 3: you know, like a young teenager walk on trying to

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Speaker 3: figure out life and running.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean figuring out life is hard enough. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: talk to me about what life was like for you

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Speaker 1: at that time.

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Speaker 3: I mean, uh, there was there was uh, there was running,

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Speaker 3: and then once I stopped running for the team, there

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Speaker 3: was life after running and I didn't pick it up

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Speaker 3: again for another, you know, ten years basically, So when

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Speaker 3: I was a college athlete, I was, you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of living that life where you know, you're practicing twice

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Speaker 3: a day. Uh, your athletic life and pursuits are the

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Speaker 3: center of your college experience, and you kind of share

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Speaker 3: that space, you know, sometimes absurdly with football players, basketball players.

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Speaker 3: You know. I went to school with Tim Duncan, so

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Speaker 3: it was kind of like always again being around folks

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Speaker 3: who were the best or went on to, you know,

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Speaker 3: continue to be the best. Then after I stopped running,

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Speaker 3: to discover an entirely different world was incredible. Obviously, you

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Speaker 3: have all this free time on your hands.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you're not going.

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Speaker 3: To practice, and I just fell headlong into other pursuits, studying,

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Speaker 3: you know, Chinese and Chinese translation, East Asian religion, philosophy,

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Speaker 3: Buddhism and Daoism, and then a deep and abiding love

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Speaker 3: for poetry that continues to this day.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting the descriptors. There's life, and then there's life

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Speaker 1: after running, and then there's life with running again for

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Speaker 1: you when you stopped running, because I find it interesting

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Speaker 1: that you could love it so much. And then just

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Speaker 1: I just made a hand gesture, which is not helpful

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Speaker 1: and podcasting, But I find it so interesting that you

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Speaker 1: can just be so enamored with the sport and do

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Speaker 1: it so actively and then like completely step away. So

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Speaker 1: was it actually like a complete step away?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? It was. It was rather poignant and of something

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Speaker 3: I blocked out for much of my life, starting with,

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Speaker 3: you know, the sort of circumstances that precipitated my my

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Speaker 3: quitting running. Literally that's just the only way to describe it,

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Speaker 3: and then getting back into it, and then like reflecting

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Speaker 3: on the whole passage of time after that. I mean,

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Speaker 3: so at this point, I've been running most of my life.

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Speaker 3: I've been running more years probably than I than I haven't.

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Speaker 3: And the ten years or so that I stopped running

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Speaker 3: between college and the birth of my son really seems

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Speaker 3: like an aberration. Yeah, and an otherwise sort of continuous

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Speaker 3: love affair with running.

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Speaker 1: Why did you stop?

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Speaker 3: You know? It was?

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Speaker 1: It was?

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Speaker 3: It was very nineties. I there was like a misunderstanding

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Speaker 3: with some teammates that I definitely overreacted to and exacerbated

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Speaker 3: before we met up today, kind of like prompting me

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Speaker 3: to think about a hurdle moment and I was pretty

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Speaker 3: sure I wasn't going to talk about this. But I

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Speaker 3: was accused of stealing some money from a party, and

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Speaker 3: I racialized the incident, or I felt the incident was

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Speaker 3: racialized and I overreacted, or I reacted wildly and passionately,

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Speaker 3: and the fratice that followed, getting into like an altercation

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Speaker 3: with some teammates. I I quit the team after never

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Speaker 3: really dealt with it until many, many years later, and

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Speaker 3: as only through getting back into running that I you know,

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Speaker 3: healed those wounds and like patched up those relationships, but

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Speaker 3: then also came to realize how crucial running is in

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Speaker 3: my life. And so times more recently when I've been

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Speaker 3: challenged or my love was run, it's been challenged or

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Speaker 3: sometimes even threatened. I really have these strong, visceral memories

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Speaker 3: of knowing what it means to lose something you love

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Speaker 3: and how important it is to hold on to it

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Speaker 3: with both hands and never let it go.

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Speaker 1: Did you feel differently without running in your life?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there was an ache, There was an emptiness,

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Speaker 3: even years, years years later when my life was totally

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Speaker 3: different and I was, you know, living as like a

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Speaker 3: bohemian writer in New York broke, you know, hanging out

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Speaker 3: and bars and poetry cafes. Well, they say there's a

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Speaker 3: light that never goes out, you know. And sometimes on

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Speaker 3: that one fall day when like the leaves turn and

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Speaker 3: the air has a certain smell to it, and the

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Speaker 3: sound of the leaves scuttling across the pavement makes you

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Speaker 3: think of, you know, racing cross country in high school.

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Speaker 3: That's something that sticks with you. And so, yeah, running

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Speaker 3: is in some ways an unshakable ghost. You know, you're

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Speaker 3: always you know, once you're a runner, you always are

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Speaker 3: measuring the distance between where you're at and the corner

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Speaker 3: and the stoplight and can I make it. Once you're

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Speaker 3: a runner, you're always going to feel like you could

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Speaker 3: run for the bus, or you're like sizing up how

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Speaker 3: far away the buses and if you're going to run

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Speaker 3: to catch it or not. So that always stuck with me,

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Speaker 3: and it's unshakable.

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Speaker 1: Did you like actively avoid just running to run during

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Speaker 1: this time?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean yeah, I mean running is a commitment. Well,

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Speaker 3: now I don't understand how you could how how that's

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Speaker 3: even possible, Like how I could have loved something so

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Speaker 3: much and then stopped and didn't have a relationship and

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Speaker 3: that's why I like sharing kind of what I'm doing

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Speaker 3: now with younger people who you know, follow me on

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Speaker 3: Instagram or when I see them out at a race

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Speaker 3: or training or randomly like running in the woods. Is

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Speaker 3: you know, there's a life outside of running in high

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Speaker 3: school and college, and I think when I quit running,

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Speaker 3: there wasn't any suggestion of that you're either like running

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Speaker 3: for your school team or you didn't, you know, there

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Speaker 3: wasn't an idea that I would go out and run socially.

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Speaker 3: There wasn't an idea that I would go out and

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Speaker 3: like run for fun or for health. So it's it's

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Speaker 3: really awesome to suggest to folks now that running can

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Speaker 3: be an unlocked for travel, Running can be an unlocked

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Speaker 3: for meeting new people. Running can be an unlock for

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Speaker 3: your creativity and your self expression. And when I was

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Speaker 3: running in school, it was just about like whipping people's asses.

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Speaker 1: So then what gets you back into running? And I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's so much that happens during the ten year period

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Speaker 1: that like it's hard to just like kind of glaze

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Speaker 1: over it, and I don't want to necessarily, but I'm

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Speaker 1: so curious to know what the catalyst is that brings

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Speaker 1: you back to lacing up.

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Speaker 3: You know, honestly, it was a very specific incident. Was

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Speaker 3: like witnessing the birth of my son. However, many moons ago,

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Speaker 3: sixteen years ago. I'm there in the delivery room, and

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Speaker 3: I was just struck by this idea, this this scene

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Speaker 3: of you know, like, as adults, rightfully, so we walk

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Speaker 3: around sometimes dragging our knuckles with long faces about the

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Speaker 3: state of the world now more than ever, and you know,

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Speaker 3: the sky is always falling, and of course it's important

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Speaker 3: to sort of, you know, be real about to state

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Speaker 3: our planet and our culture and our countries in But

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Speaker 3: at the same time, to watch this human claw their

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Speaker 3: way into the world and demand that their ticket be

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Speaker 3: punched to join the human community was very affecting and

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Speaker 3: very startling. And then to see that what it required,

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Speaker 3: a singular unity of body, mind, and spirit, was mind

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Speaker 3: blowing and astonishing in the moment. And then I thought,

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Speaker 3: you know, when's the last time I did anything that

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Speaker 3: required this singular unity of those things? And the only

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Speaker 3: thing I could think of was running, And the last

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Speaker 3: time I had done that. I started running the very

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Speaker 3: next day.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about that run.

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Speaker 3: I was living in Fort Green, and I went across

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Speaker 3: the street from my apartment to fork Green Park and

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Speaker 3: ran a loop around the park. And like everybody who

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Speaker 3: starts running a fork Green Park, you think it's like

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Speaker 3: three miles, and it's less than a mile, you know,

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Speaker 3: But went out ran a loop one day. The next

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Speaker 3: day I went out and did two loops, then three loops,

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Speaker 3: and then kind of held for three loops. And then

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, the park that originally seems so

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Speaker 3: big becomes so small, and I was like, oh, what

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Speaker 3: else is around here? And then I think I must

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Speaker 3: have looked at Google Maps, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: Prospect Park is nearby. I'm going to run to Prospect Park.

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Speaker 3: And so that became a thing, and then you know,

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Speaker 3: built by accretion, and suddenly I was like back up

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Speaker 3: into a long distance run and rather obsessed.

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you what were you running

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Speaker 1: in college distance?

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Speaker 3: I you know, flirted with the steeplechase. So again when

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Speaker 3: it comes to hurdles, you want to ask our hurdles.

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Speaker 3: I have this scar. You can't see it on this podcast,

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Speaker 3: but this.

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Speaker 1: Oh Wow scars real scar guys from from hurdling Oh

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Speaker 1: Wow and steeplechase practice. I had Squigs on the pod

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Speaker 1: calling quickly okay, my only real herd largely until you.

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Speaker 3: Elliot Kipchoge's coach was a world class steeplechaser in the

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Speaker 3: nineties and when I met him in Berlin, who were

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Speaker 3: like having a chat. Turns out we have matching scars

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Speaker 3: from steeplechase practice.

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Speaker 1: So I always find runners that can steeplechase very impressive

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Speaker 1: because it requires such a great amount of hip mobility

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Speaker 1: in a way that typically runners don't possess.

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Speaker 3: It's rough. It's just like, wait, we didn't sign up

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Speaker 3: what hip flexibility? Like, I'm just trying to go that

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Speaker 3: way fast. That's it now, that something in my way.

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Speaker 1: So you were steeple chasing and then you were doing

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Speaker 1: distance and that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: That's country, yeah, ten thousand. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So when you start getting back reunited with this love

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Speaker 1: for long distance running, talk to me about what that

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Speaker 1: process is like for you, Like, are you the kind

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Speaker 1: of person that's out there running and working for your

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Speaker 1: thoughts or you're the kind of person that's out there

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Speaker 1: running and listening to music, Like what is it for

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Speaker 1: you at this time?

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Speaker 3: This is why I relate to folks and I love

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Speaker 3: quasi coaching or writing about running because I'm just like

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Speaker 3: everybody else. I kind of went off the deep end,

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Speaker 3: and so my exploits have sometimes been rather epic. But

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Speaker 3: I was figuring out like everybody else. It was early

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Speaker 3: days of the internet, so like maybe there was like

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Speaker 3: a let's run message board to kind of discover later on,

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Speaker 3: but I was really putting one foot in front of

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Speaker 3: the other and like figuring it out.

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Speaker 1: So so we're in like two thousand and five, two

423
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Speaker 1: thousand and five, okay, and great math.

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Speaker 3: Two thousand and four, two thousand and five. My first

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00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 3: race was the Brooklyn Half Marathon, and it used to

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Speaker 3: run start on the boardwalk in Coney Island and finish

427
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Speaker 3: in Prospect Park, and it was in March, I think,

428
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Speaker 3: very cold, but I ran one fifteen and I qualified

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Speaker 3: for the New York City Marathon automatically in that first race.

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Speaker 3: So I'm like, oh cool, all right, I'm gonna run

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Speaker 3: New York training for the marathon, and you know, I

432
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Speaker 3: was just out of my mind. I was eating a

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Speaker 3: pint of Ben and Jerry's every night.

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Speaker 1: All men can do this. I never understand.

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00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 3: Young before the metabolism.

436
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: But I feel like, every guy I know trains for

437
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: any sort of event, whether it's a marathon or like,

438
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: fuck it, maybe he's shock like training for a mile

439
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 1: and he can eat whatever he wants. He's like, you

440
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: know what happened when I started running? I'm like what

441
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: He's like, I lost twenty five pounds.

442
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I trained for a marathon every year

443
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 2: without fail.

444
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: It's a weight gain season. I'm like, why is this

445
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: a men thing?

446
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well different, I mean totally, You've you got that.

447
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 3: Stacy Simms book Roars is an incredible sort of like

448
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 3: exploration of women's fitness and endurance sports. And I was

449
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 3: talking with some women in Black Roses, NYC last night,

450
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: and I guess, you know, a lot of times women

451
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 3: at a certain volume of running, you end up gaining

452
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 3: weight just because of like the hormonal fluctuations and like

453
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 3: the different you know, phases of the cycle over the

454
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 3: month or five weeks.

455
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: So I should read the book. I should also stop

456
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: just being so snarky about this discrepancy that we are here. Also,

457
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: did you say you ran it in one fifteen?

458
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 3: Yes?

459
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: Cash, did you go into it knowing that like that

460
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: was kind of the vibe?

461
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 3: No? Because I hadn't rased, That's what I'm saying. A

462
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 3: decade or more so. Or yeah, I hadn't raised. I

463
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 3: didn't didn't know what I was doing. You're just out

464
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 3: there again, just having the muscle memory of like whipping

465
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 3: dude's asses. So I was out there. And it must

466
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 3: be said that the Brooklyn this is kind of before

467
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 3: the running boom that we're enjoying now, and so the

468
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 3: Brooklyn Half marathon was a much more humble affair. I

469
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 3: got like ninth place, eighth place. Wow, And you know

470
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 3: now to see the race is so wild. Now. I

471
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 3: can only watch it because it's just pure enjoyment. Everybody

472
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 3: from the city's out, and it's a big kind of

473
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 3: celebration beyond the New York City Marathon. It's a kind

474
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 3: of like a big celebration of running in New York.

475
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 3: So I just like to watch the Brooklyn half now.

476
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: So you get back into running, you obviously qualify for

477
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: New York, So then talk to me about your first marathon.

478
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 3: God, it was a nightmare. I mean everything built up

479
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 3: to that, you know, because I was going at it

480
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 3: with you know, college post college row expectations. So every

481
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 3: kind of dude at a certain level who gets out

482
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 3: of college running thinks that they're going to run sub

483
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 3: to thirty in their first marathon. Right, So the whole

484
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 3: time I'm training, I think I'm going to run sub

485
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 3: to thirty through the park. I'm trying my first long run,

486
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 3: my first long run eighteen miles. I fell down after

487
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 3: and I had to go to a bodega and I

488
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 3: ordered and I bought like cheese, its more ice cream

489
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: the wayfer cookies and I was just like, ate every

490
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: couple of twinkies, Ate all that, and then went out

491
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 3: and had like eight fish tacos in Williamsburg after, and

492
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 3: I thought I was gonna die.

493
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 1: I love what you said when you sat down with

494
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: Ritual and you were talking about your training, and you said,

495
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: in New York, it's just so different because you're just

496
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: dodging cabs all the time. And then you get to

497
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: the marathon and like there are no cabs to dodge,

498
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: and it's just very different.

499
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: You freak out right, wait where are the stops? Yeah?

500
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 3: And then my my first marathon was insane. I went

501
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 3: through the half in you know one fourteen probably and

502
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 3: thought I was going to hang on, but I didn't

503
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 3: have experience really marathon training, even though I had done

504
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 3: like some some some requisite long runs. And I get

505
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 3: to mile four and the strangest thing happened, Like this

506
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 3: dude from France was ahead of me and started walking,

507
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 3: and it was like a scene from those old Warner

508
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 3: Brothers cartoons where the guy's stranded on a desert island

509
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 3: and it seems like a beautiful woman walking, but she

510
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 3: looks like a hot dog, you know. Like this dude

511
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 3: started ahead, walking ahead of me, and I swear he

512
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 3: looked like a banana split. I was like, oh, walking

513
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: looks really good. I'm just going to try it to

514
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 3: see how it feels, and then I'll start running again.

515
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: There's such a big contrast between the pace that you're

516
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: going and a walk.

517
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 3: Now. Oh yeah, well, I mean again, this guy turned

518
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 3: into a banana split right in front of me, and

519
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, yeah, that looks really good. Right now,

520
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to try it, and yeah, started walking and

521
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 3: ended up like walking and jogging over the second half

522
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 3: of the race like garbage fire, Yeah, garbage, garbage, garbage fire.

523
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: For sure, still ran under three. I ran like two fifty.

524
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: Seven, but like you know, the people that work there

525
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone who runs a marathon were very hard.

526
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: And I'm just talking about like when we're getting to

527
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: be these faster special humans. People work their butt off

528
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: to get a sub three, and just like people work

529
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: their button off to get a sub four, and people

530
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: also work their but off to sub five. You know,

531
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: but you turn into a mirage and still managed to

532
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: two fifty seven.

533
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, but you know to that point, That's

534
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 3: why I don't know, that's why I'm in love with it,

535
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: but that's why I respect the whole range of running

536
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 3: of runners. You know. That's why I'm using whatever I

537
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,959
Speaker 3: have to help folks in Black Roses, NYC or outside

538
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 3: of the squad break four. I mean, breaking four hours

539
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: in the marathon is a huge accomplishment for folks now

540
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 3: all of a sudden. Now these days, obviously, like people

541
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 3: are obsessed with not nope, you know, no shots at

542
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 3: anybody here, but obsessed with getting a BQ. You know,

543
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 3: that wasn't even a thing a few years ago. And

544
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 3: so now to really watch the passion with which people

545
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: throw themselves at qualifying for the Boston Marathon is incredible.

546
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 3: So whatever I can do to help people get past

547
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: that barrier, sometimes you need some insight from Ellied Kipchoge

548
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 3: and how to structure that, and sometimes you need some

549
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 3: insight from people who have broken other bearers irrespective of

550
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 3: the time.

551
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I mean you've mentioned Black ros Is twice,

552
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: so let's I don't I feel like we're like jumping

553
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: around a little bit. But you run the first marathon

554
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: and you keep running, and when does your passion for

555
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: running that you're feeling inside, when does that passion become

556
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,479
Speaker 1: something that you want to help other people with?

557
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: Right? Well, it's funny, like things used to be inverted.

558
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 3: Running used to be my personal life and my private life.

559
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 3: It was something that I kind of just did on

560
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,239
Speaker 3: the low, maybe for redemption of like how I was

561
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 3: like wilding out in other aspects of my life. But

562
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: at the time, you know, I was working magazine journalism

563
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 3: and music journalism and they moved into music management and

564
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 3: really had like a real wild ride in doing both

565
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 3: of those kind of career paths. And then in twenty eleven,

566
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 3: I had just come back from like a long trip

567
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 3: to South Africa and Paris, you know, out at like

568
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 3: Paris Fashion a week with Virgil and Kanye, and like

569
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: this guy was managing and just really acting crazy. Came back,

570
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 3: my running shoes, didn't leave my luggage the entire time

571
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 3: I was on the road, came back, jumped into the

572
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 3: New York City Marathon and got a hundredth place. But

573
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 3: at the time I was telling everyone in the industry

574
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 3: or like folks on you know, homies in Brooklyn, that

575
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 3: that was the goal. People like, what are you going

576
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: to do in the marathon? I was like, Oh, I'm

577
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 3: going to get in top hundred and get into the

578
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 3: Century Club. And they're like, the Century Club, what's that?

579
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, the Century Club is is a club

580
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 3: for people who have gotten top hundred in the marathon?

581
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: Is it a real club?

582
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 3: No? I just made it up.

583
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: I mean, but hey, like I would have, I woant

584
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: to believe it. You guys get together once a month.

585
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: I'd be like, goods. No.

586
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 3: The cool thing about, at least at the time, the

587
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 3: cool thing about getting hundredth is that it's the last

588
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 3: name on the first page of the results that's printed

589
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 3: in the New York Times special edition the day after

590
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 3: the race, And so New Yorkers, especially non runners, look

591
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 3: who's first, and then they look who's last. On the

592
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 3: first page and then they turned to the last page

593
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 3: to see how long the slowest person is. So everybody

594
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 3: the next day woke up and saw like Knox Robinson

595
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 3: out of the place. Yo, he's in the Centric Club.

596
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 3: He said he was going to do it, and he

597
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 3: did it. So then I would see dudes at like

598
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 3: industry functions or whatever, and people are like, yo, I

599
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 3: heard you in the Centric Club. That's big. I was like, yeah,

600
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 3: you know, Centric.

601
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: Club and you did that after wilding out with Kanye.

602
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, like, you know, don't want to blame it.

603
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: On Ye, but can we recap that that component of

604
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: your life all bite briefly? Maybe?

605
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, you know, I once I I was

606
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 3: fired unceremoniously from being editor in chief of the Fader magazine.

607
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: What happened with that?

608
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, just general theme I was, I was

609
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 3: out of control, pushing things too far.

610
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: When you were at Fader, that's when you did Kanye's

611
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: first cover correct, correct?

612
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, I have kind of been around Kanye from

613
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 3: almost the very beginning, for better or for worse. It's

614
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 3: been interesting to watch his journey.

615
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: So you're at Fader, you have, I mean, and what

616
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: was it like for you at this time to get

617
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: so much exposure with like these bigger name individuals, whether

618
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: it be you know, yeah or the others. And I

619
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's interesting actually kind of to

620
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: set up your career in running also because it's like

621
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: you have this experience where you are around a lot

622
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: of high profile people in a very different type of industry. Yeah,

623
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: and then you transition into what you're doing now and

624
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: it's like a totally different beast.

625
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally different beasts on the outside. But like the

626
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: access and the unlocks were so simple, just because I

627
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 3: had spent so many years reporting and figuring out how

628
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 3: to report. I mean, I've been like a writer since

629
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 3: age four, you know, and have been like thinking about

630
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 3: these things like on a craft level, you know, as

631
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 3: a preteen. And so when it comes to you know,

632
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 3: what we could call the craft of interviewing or how

633
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 3: to get stories out of people, and then also how

634
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: to like share those stories and relate those stories, reproduce

635
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 3: those stories, or reconstitute those stories, That's been something that

636
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 3: I've always been engaged in. And so coming out of

637
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 3: this time where first of all, to be at Fader

638
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 3: in those early years, you know, the first five years

639
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: of the magazine's publication was credibly intoxicating. You know, I

640
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 3: ended up writing and then editing a lot of the

641
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 3: magazine and together with you know, the other folks, the

642
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 3: small team who was behind the book. At the time,

643
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 3: there were very few boundaries for better or for worse,

644
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 3: and so whether it was like the narrative devices we

645
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 3: were using to tell a story about rappers, you know,

646
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 3: or we were you know, just sort of like jumping

647
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 3: on you know, an indie band from Williamsburg that just

648
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 3: moved to town that week. We recovering anything and everything

649
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 3: that our appetites dictated. Fast forwarding to now working into running.

650
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously, several years ago, running was generally perceived

651
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 3: to be the domain and the purview of you know, moneyed,

652
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 3: white males. It's striking if you look at magazines from

653
00:35:54,840 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 3: those times, it's just like so homogeneous and monochromatic. And

654
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 3: now when you look in the magazines in some ways

655
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 3: it's diverse, at least on an advertising level, there's a

656
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 3: wild greater representation of different types of runners. And it's

657
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 3: been great to see the culture open up to that

658
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 3: idea of like who is a runner and who can

659
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 3: be a runner, and that's something I'm definitely proud to

660
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 3: have witnessed.

661
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: So you get kicked out of Fader, get kicked out

662
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: of Fader. I feel like we need to take a

663
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: beat to bring up the theme of the week here,

664
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: which is that you seem to have so much passion

665
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: for the things that you care about that it gets

666
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: you into trouble.

667
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, you got to know what. There's a

668
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 3: boss Grat painting that said most kings get their heads

669
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 3: chopped off like that. You just got to know that's

670
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 3: what it is that you're growing up black in America, Like,

671
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: are so many reference points for our icons are trailblazers

672
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 3: and innovator who are taken from us too soon. So yeah,

673
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 3: for me, those sort of rebuffs often come with a sting.

674
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 3: But you know, if you're not pushing the boundaries, then

675
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 3: you're not doing it right.

676
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like the follow up question then for

677
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 1: that is have you regretted pushing the boundary?

678
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 3: Oh? No, that's who I am. That's like in my DNA,

679
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 3: That's that's just the way I see the world, you know,

680
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 3: And if anything, it's it's sometimes quaint, I guess because

681
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 3: I just do that every day, you know, like to

682
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 3: the absurd coming I made earlier about like running for

683
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 3: the bus, like you're still doing that. You're still like

684
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 3: sizing up the distance and like can I make that

685
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 3: yellow light like over the crosswalk? And so when it

686
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 3: comes to running, I enjoy it. I love it. I

687
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 3: love running on a fall day without a care in

688
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 3: the world. I love running whatever kind of paces. So

689
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 3: I have, like again an overwhelming passion for it. But

690
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 3: I do when I'm in the zone, I do love

691
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 3: pushing the boundaries and see how fast I can go.

692
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 3: I mean, by this point, I've run almost thirty marathons,

693
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 3: almost almost thirty. I'm creeping up on thirty of twenty

694
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 3: eight twenty nine marathons and I've never broken to thirty.

695
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 3: And if you ask me today, I'm going to run

696
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 3: to twenty six at the London Marathon in April. So

697
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 3: I'm still just obsessed as I was fifteen sixteen years ago.

698
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that you don't like it,

699
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: no why.

700
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 3: I just wish I could like wake up one day

701
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 3: and like be freed from like this dream, you know, like.

702
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, But isn't the pursuit of

703
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: the dream what keeps us like excited and alive, and

704
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: if you pursue it an.

705
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 3: Overtrain and like if you look, if I wasn't running,

706
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 3: if I Ryan, let's say I ran two twenty nine

707
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: to fifty nine, I wouldn't have to pursue the goal anymore.

708
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 3: I would quit running. I could go back to eating

709
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 3: ice cream with smoking weed every night. And you know,

710
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 3: like aside from perpetually having the munchies because of smoking

711
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 3: so much weed, my grocery bill would go down. I

712
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 3: wouldn't be eating for two all the time like a

713
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 3: marathon or does. I'd be good, so my finances would

714
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 3: be more arranged. I wouldn't be blowing money on running

715
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 3: gear and traveling to races.

716
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 1: But doesn't this bring you back then to the time

717
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 1: where you left running and then you remember how that felt,

718
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: and you don't like life really that much without running,

719
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: So then you get back into it again. And it's

720
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: a cycle. It's a cycle.

721
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 3: One of my favorite books is this, this book. I've

722
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 3: been reading it for like twenty years. It's too good

723
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 3: to finish. It's Prisoner of Love by Jean Janet, and

724
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 3: I think I'm just in love with the title you know,

725
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 3: prisoner of love, and it's an accounting of his time

726
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 3: at the end of his career. He was following the

727
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 3: It's a memoir of like following the Black Panthers around

728
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 3: and also the PLO and like camps in Syria, Lebanon,

729
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: Palaceline in Israel at the time. So he was just

730
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 3: like in love with people and to be a prisoner

731
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 3: of love of running and running culture is definitely a

732
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 3: way to describe it. You know, it's love, but like

733
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 3: I'm trapped in it for sure.

734
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: I feel trapped in it for sure. I do. Okay,

735
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: so you post Fader, what do you get into with

736
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: your career?

737
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 3: I took my settlement and just started buying Budweiser every

738
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 3: day and like sitting around my house playing like reggae

739
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: records and just hanging out, like I'll figure out something.

740
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 3: And I ended up producing a roots reggae compilation for

741
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 3: a UK label that took up a little bit of time.

742
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: How does one just go about to start randomly producing

743
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 1: a roots record label.

744
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm like an an inveterate record collector.

745
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 3: And after I left the magazine, I still had like

746
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 3: my credentials. I still had like my, my, my cvs

747
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 3: where people know what I did. So a lot of

748
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 3: folks pursued me with different opportunities. I knew I couldn't

749
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 3: very well just like go and write for another magazine

750
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 3: because I already had like an editor in chief's ego,

751
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 3: So I just kind of was going to wait for

752
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 3: another ship to come in. And so yeah, put this

753
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 3: this reggae compilation out that was super educational and amazing,

754
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 3: and then from there I just started managing acts. I

755
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 3: you know, saw an eight piece spiritual cosmic brass band

756
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: busking the street in New York and started working with them.

757
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 3: That was a crazy trip that was like a brush

758
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 3: with joining a cult that was very interesting. From there,

759
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 3: I worked with a four piece indie rock band from

760
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 3: Johannesburg and Soweto, South Africa. And then after that I

761
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 3: worked with an early kind of like post Kanye rapper

762
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 3: named Theophalist London, who actually was from just a few

763
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 3: blocks from here.

764
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 1: I remember, Yeah, yeah, you grew up right around here,

765
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: right around here. Yeah. Knox talks about being a collector

766
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 1: of records and how many do you have that you're

767
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: sitting in front of right now, Probably like ten thousand records,

768
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: ten thousand records cash. Yeah, Okay, so we're doing we're

769
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: doing records, we're making the hits, we're still running.

770
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then yeah, after that, you know that that

771
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 3: twenty eleven, folks kind of saw folks kind of like

772
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 3: dragged running out of me. You know, Folks were like,

773
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 3: I went from just being like a dude who kind

774
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 3: of people knew on this burgeoning urban running scene to

775
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 3: folks who were kind of like asking me advice, you know, like, hey,

776
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 3: is this workout legitimate? Or how do I stretch or whatever?

777
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 3: And so I rather reluctantly started offering that experience and

778
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 3: acumen to folks, you know, against better judgment.

779
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: Why reluctantly, Yeah.

780
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 3: Because I was just trying to hang out, like it

781
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 3: was cool to you know. I was living upstate in Beacon,

782
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 3: and I loved really hard training, but then I liked

783
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 3: coming to the city and hanging out downtown in the

784
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 3: l e s, running with Bridge runners and going out

785
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 3: for margaritas after. So I didn't need to like mix

786
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 3: that up and conflate having a good time with the

787
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 3: hard training that I was kind of engaged, you know,

788
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 3: in my personal life. But after a while, the things

789
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 3: started to get blurry, and there was like a greater

790
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:59,959
Speaker 3: interest in just what it takes to crack long distance running.

791
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 3: It's cool to, you know, sign up for your first

792
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 3: marathon and not train for it and bomb your way

793
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 3: through it, but you know, ninety seven percent of people

794
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 3: who do that finish and no matter how painful it

795
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 3: is and so debilitating and humiliating. It's like this with everybody,

796
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 3: from that person who bombs their way through their first

797
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 3: all the way to Elliott Kipchoge. There's something about the

798
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 3: marathon that for almost everybody really triggers you and you

799
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 3: want to figure it out. You want to go back.

800
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 3: Almost everyone, no matter how hard though that first marathon is,

801
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 3: you're like, ah, I could go back and do it

802
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 3: again and change this thing or that thing and run faster.

803
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 3: You know.

804
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: I think it's just like an overwhelming excitement about the

805
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: ability to understand your true potential yeah and untap that.

806
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, which is a lifelong pursuit, right, and is

807
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 3: so challenging. I mean it literally is takes so long

808
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 3: and then running the long distance running is the most

809
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 3: central example we have in like our human culture of

810
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,439
Speaker 3: something that takes a very long time, with very little

811
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 3: reward that is so crucial to unlocking. And so I

812
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 3: really think that the marathon distances is so bizarrely perfect

813
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 3: because it's so long that mathematically speaking, there's so many

814
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 3: things that can go wrong. I mean, it's like Murphy's

815
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 3: Law writ large, you know, like what can go wrong

816
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 3: will go wrong. And so you keep going back to

817
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 3: the marathon because you want to figure it out. You

818
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 3: want to run faster, like you want to qualify for Boston.

819
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 3: You want to you know, do this or that, and

820
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 3: it's the seduction is is you know complete.

821
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: So people are coming to you asking for your advice

822
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: on how to get faster. Sure, all right, and it's overwhelming.

823
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what. You know, You're like, hey, let's

824
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 3: just let's be friends, right, Let's just hang out, like

825
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 3: you know, you don't need to sort of like know

826
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 3: what it's like to you know, do twenty two mile

827
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 3: runs in the mountains in like vomit after like that.

828
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 3: You know what they say, like everything ain't for everybody,

829
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, but you know, nevertheless, it was cool to

830
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 3: start sharing those gifts and those experiences with the folks.

831
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 3: And then you know, I was a magazine guy i'n't

832
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 3: always been a magazine guy as a writer. So then

833
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 3: I had the idea to start a magazine. So I

834
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 3: took a bunch of money that I had from from

835
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 3: uh being in the music business, and I funded like

836
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 3: eighty percent of a sort of coffee table wallpapery pop

837
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 3: uh running magazine called First Run. I mean, I was

838
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 3: finding like a fashion photographer into like a training camp

839
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 3: in the deserts of Mexico and like shooting athletes magazines.

840
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: It's like everything we did at Conde that was wrong

841
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: with Conde.

842
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is why you go to work at Conde,

843
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 3: because you're like, this is what it's all about, and

844
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 3: you're like everything wrong. Like my magazine was about like

845
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 3: the most expensive running jacket possible, the most expensive gear.

846
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 3: It was like, you know what, let's just like twist

847
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 3: this dire calculus of a formula all the way out, yeah,

848
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 3: and sell it back to rich dudes. Now, I've been

849
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 3: taken to task over the years and I realized like

850
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 3: how limited that concept is and it was and is,

851
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 3: and also just like how possibly toxic you know, that

852
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 3: vision of what it could be. But nevertheless, I blew

853
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 3: a lot of money on the idea the hard drive

854
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 3: today is pretty incredible for what's in that magazine that

855
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 3: never was published. And around that time, Instagram took off,

856
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 3: and I found so much more edification and satisfaction by

857
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 3: you know, writing sort of gazette style dispatches, abusing the

858
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 3: length of the caption and really getting out that sort

859
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,760
Speaker 3: of combination of image and text that like for anybody

860
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 3: who's been in love with magazines from a young age

861
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 3: know that, like Instagram is that that is that for us,

862
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 3: image and text, Image and text.

863
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,720
Speaker 1: Right right? Okay, so you come back from this trip

864
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 1: to the desert to take all these about us, right,

865
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: so you never make the magazine?

866
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 3: No?

867
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:45,720
Speaker 1: Wow?

868
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's like right when I was about to

869
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 3: push print, you know, at the printing press or whatever,

870
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 3: basically like had it all lined up. I was like, yeah,

871
00:48:55,719 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 3: but Instagram was more fun, and so yeah, the magazine

872
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 3: just sort of idled. The concept of that sort of

873
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 3: like curated lifestyle approach to running is in the DNA

874
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 3: of like what I do on Instagram and social media,

875
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 3: and I think, if anything, it's sort of been that

876
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 3: projection of a personal brand that I've kind of put

877
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 3: out there in the world. I mean, it's real. I

878
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 3: mean I do go to these places I have trained

879
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 3: in this way, I have sort of like you know,

880
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 3: all these kind of relationships and interactions and adventures are

881
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 3: are for real, for better or for worse. But I

882
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 3: do also have like a personal life and a private

883
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,439
Speaker 3: life as well. So right, so the first run thing

884
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 3: is has been like an extension of that magazine idea.

885
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: I never knew that that's where first Run came from. Yeah,

886
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: why first Run.

887
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 3: I was having a conversation with a person who is,

888
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 3: you know, helping me get the project started early on,

889
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 3: and she was talking about her first run when she

890
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 3: was in college, wearing like repeto flats and like just

891
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 3: jogging through the East Village just to feel some sense

892
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 3: of freedom. And she was going on about her first run,

893
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 3: and I was like, then it made me think about

894
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 3: what my first run was and how mad cap and

895
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 3: visceral and memorable those sort of zany experiences are. And

896
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 3: then I realized, oh man, it doesn't matter if you're

897
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 3: an Olympian or a first time or the thing about

898
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 3: a first run is that everyone has one, and that's

899
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,240
Speaker 3: like a great connection.

900
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: You come back and do you have this Instagram platform

901
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: and I'm sure as the Instagram platform builds, you are

902
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: being approached more and more and perhaps reluctantly but maybe

903
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: not so much anymore, are in the position to continue

904
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,240
Speaker 1: to offer advice.

905
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's great because I just have had

906
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 3: the experience and now in this running boom, there's so

907
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 3: many new runners and first time runners that like folks

908
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 3: are going at it and you know, especially back in

909
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 3: the day, going at it in any number of ways.

910
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 3: And you know, when your kids learning how to walk,

911
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 3: you just got to like stand back and let it happen.

912
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 3: But that doesn't stop you from like kind of wringing

913
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 3: your hands when they stumble a couple of times and

914
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 3: want to reach out and help them. So I think

915
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 3: that the platform of kind of sharing a running journey,

916
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 3: and early on I was kind of much more straightforward

917
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 3: about like sharing specific workouts and explaining sort of the

918
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 3: ins and outs of the approach. And then that sort

919
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 3: of grew into like a narrative voice that sort of

920
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 3: reflects on running as a healing practice and or just

921
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 3: sort of a transmutation in a way. It's how we

922
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 3: kind of convert our understanding of one experience into like

923
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 3: a resolution of that and understanding it in a different way.

924
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 3: So I think running time once it started to build

925
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 3: to like a fever pitch for me, I was just

926
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 3: working through a lot of things in my life and

927
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 3: was sharing that rather ardently, And I feel like a

928
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 3: lot of that Instagram following came from the ways in

929
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,280
Speaker 3: which I was sharing those stories.

930
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting as well because so many people

931
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: lean into running for healing, right, like lean into it

932
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 1: to get through hard stuff, And you're saying that that's

933
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: what you do now, which is why it is disheartening

934
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: and sad for me to think about your beginnings with

935
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: running and that you had to literally walk away from

936
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: it to heal from a really negative situation. Do you

937
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: find that you have to battle between those two sides ever? Still,

938
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: I don't.

939
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 3: Think there's going to be a time where I'm going

940
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 3: to walk away from it because having done that, you know,

941
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 3: folks around me, my detractors will definitely say that, like

942
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 3: I don't admit to mistakes, I don't think I've made

943
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 3: too many of my life. Definitely some errors in judgment

944
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 3: all the way along. But I guess when I think

945
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 3: back on mistakes I've made in my life, quitting running

946
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 3: was definitely the first thing that leaps out, and I'm

947
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 3: never going to do that again. So yeah, I'm always

948
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 3: going to lean into it. I don't always see it

949
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 3: as a vehicle for a healing for me. Sometimes a

950
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:26,720
Speaker 3: lot of times for me in recent years, I found

951
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 3: that like a mindfulness practice and meditation also combined with

952
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 3: running has been great. But if anything, a mindfulness practice

953
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,720
Speaker 3: sort of changed my approach to running and like freed

954
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 3: me up to get even deeper into the pursuit.

955
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,479
Speaker 1: How do you pair the two of them just.

956
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 3: In a pretty parochial fashion, you know, I think at

957
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 3: my peak, you know, I was, you know, a few

958
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 3: years ago, I was running one hundred miles a week,

959
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 3: and like meditating, I was on like a ninety day

960
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 3: meditation streak or a hundred day meditation streak. And so

961
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 3: the two together really sort of for a wild cocktail,

962
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 3: I guess you could say, of personal unlock. And this

963
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 3: is going to another dimension of who I knew myself

964
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 3: to be, and that precipitated some pretty eye popping performances

965
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 3: that I didn't really anticipate. The you know, two thirty

966
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 3: three in Berlin and then I rather shockingly ran broke

967
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 3: seventy minutes and the half marathon the following spring in Valencia.

968
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,240
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, that's fast.

969
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 3: That was you know. I mean it's all relative and

970
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 3: you can't say that's fast to guys who are going

971
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 3: to the Olympic Trials or whatever. But for me to

972
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 3: run sixty nine minutes in the half marathon and an

973
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 3: advanced age was definitely.

974
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:42,919
Speaker 1: Shocking for sure.

975
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:43,439
Speaker 3: For sure.

976
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: Okay, so when does the coaching go off Instagram into

977
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: real life?

978
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, like so you know, I was,

979
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 3: you know, helping folks out with with Bridge Runners and

980
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 3: then really had a special bond with one of the

981
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 3: other captains over there, Jesse Zappo, who's a long time

982
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 3: icon of urban running in New York City and indeed

983
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 3: running cultural worldwide. Jesse and I saw an opportunity to

984
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 3: take a smaller group of runners and work with them

985
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 3: over time in a curated fashion. So say, take thirty

986
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 3: runners and sort of have regular workouts. And again, now,

987
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 3: you know, five or six years on, this idea sounds

988
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 3: again quaint, But there weren't urban run crews back in

989
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 3: the day. There was one and you know, Bridge Runners

990
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 3: and run them crew in London and Parasrount Club, but

991
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 3: five worldwide or something like that, and maybe even in

992
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 3: this day, this era, there's three or one. So nobody

993
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 3: was doing track workouts, nobody was doing long runs, nobody

994
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 3: had an idea of like how to prepare for the marathon.

995
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 3: I mean, in the Bridge Runners era, preparing for the

996
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 3: New York City marathon, going to max Fish till it

997
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 3: closed and then like jumping on the ferry and like

998
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 3: banditing the race. And you can just see how much

999
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 3: the culture has blossomed since, you know, just those few

1000
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 3: years ago. So Jesse and I started Black Roses NYC

1001
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 3: as a way to you know, more actively and activistically

1002
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 3: take the learnings and the practices from elite runners and

1003
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 3: bring them to everyday New Yorkers from a you know,

1004
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 3: wide range of careers and lifestyle. So bartenders and out

1005
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 3: of work bartenders and you know, architects and ex rock

1006
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 3: stars and you know some elias and chefs like these

1007
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 3: are all sort of true blue New Yorkers who have

1008
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 3: come through the squad and to give them insights on

1009
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 3: a training journey and a running culture level has been

1010
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 3: you know work that I'm super proud of.

1011
00:56:54,440 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 1: So are all these people shooting for that, nor are

1012
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 1: you working on people of all paces?

1013
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:06,720
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, no, it's definitely, it's definitely define The folks

1014
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 3: in Black Roses are folks who keep showing up, folks

1015
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 3: who haven't quit. Yeah, you know, so we're not about pace,

1016
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 3: We're not about a real We're definitely like against, if

1017
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 3: anything against sort of a materialist acquisitional approach to running

1018
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 3: and grabbing, grabbing, grabbing like I want this time or

1019
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 3: I want this, you know, accomplishment or I won these laurels.

1020
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 3: It's really about an investigation into the craft and an

1021
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 3: investigation and an exploration of the self and of community.

1022
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: How big is your community now?

1023
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean our community is worldwide. We have you know,

1024
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 3: twenty to thirty people in the squad at any given time.

1025
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 3: But I like to think that the serialized nature of

1026
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 3: our squad has sort of fans and followers and definitely

1027
00:57:55,120 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 3: haters around around around the world. So I think one

1028
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 3: of the interesting thing about Black Roses is like people

1029
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 3: come into the squad and people leave, and people have

1030
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 3: a sharp focus at some point and then they can

1031
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 3: just sort of like fade away. And so I think

1032
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 3: that the episodic nature of how our squad exists. Is

1033
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 3: feels like it's content and entertainment for folks to consume.

1034
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's interesting as well. I mean

1035
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: for a lot of people listening to this, they think

1036
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: of a run club and they think of you know,

1037
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: Nike run Club or maybe opportunities that might feel a

1038
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 1: lot more accessible than something like this. What is it

1039
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: about this type of structure? You know, how you guys

1040
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: are putting this together that like jives with who you are.

1041
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's something that I've had to reflect

1042
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 3: on later because like who you know, I helped found

1043
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 3: Nike plus run Club and that that time was awesome.

1044
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 3: I have I like to think I have so much

1045
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 3: to share and give that I'm like, you know, here

1046
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 3: for or the largest possible platform to do that. So yeah,

1047
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 3: I'm envious of those large opportunities. At the same time,

1048
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 3: I have to be real about who I am as

1049
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 3: a person, and you know, Black Roses is so wildly

1050
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 3: an extension of or an expression of, like what I

1051
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 3: always thought it would be, you know, and it's only

1052
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 3: getting to be that more and more so. The training

1053
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 3: is definitely intense. The level that we set for ourselves

1054
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 3: is absurdly high, but in generally we refuse to do

1055
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 3: that without a commensurate amount, commensurate event, a commensurate amount

1056
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 3: of of uh of wilding out. And so there's definitely

1057
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 3: not folks like sleeping in you know, oxygen in tents

1058
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 3: and chain members. In our squad, there are folks who

1059
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 3: are going to like give it their all when they're

1060
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 3: out training and then from there it's like off to

1061
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 3: a bar or you know, off to a party. And

1062
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 3: sometimes fitting all those things together in a short amount

1063
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 3: of time is what sort of gives our squad the

1064
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 3: sort of mad cap identity that it has.

1065
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: You said, intense talk to me about intents.

1066
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 3: Well, again, there's a lot of games in town this

1067
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 3: day these days, so I don't want to like sort

1068
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 3: of you know, tout Black Roses is sort of like

1069
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 3: this unparalleled performance, you know situation. But you know, we

1070
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 3: do have regular folks and folks who are you know,

1071
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 3: training for breakthrough marathons, going out on twenty two mile runs,

1072
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 3: finishing at the track and then doing like a series

1073
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 3: of mile repeats after twenty two mile or all out

1074
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 3: to the point of exhaustion or vomit or both. We

1075
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 3: are training, you know, in the Hills of Upstate New

1076
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 3: York in February in a snowstorm to get that long

1077
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 3: run end for marathon that's months and months away. So

1078
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 3: you know, that sort of intensity is a hallmark to

1079
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 3: our training. But again that's just a direct extension of

1080
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 3: like the master athletes and coaches that I've seen over

1081
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 3: the course of my lifetime, and indeed, like these are

1082
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 3: practices that I've sort of used in my own training

1083
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 3: with you know, whatever effect and results.

1084
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: I think the question from the more recreational runner would

1085
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: be why, like why the twenty two mile are followed

1086
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: by the track repeats? Why do you have to like

1087
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: tackle it in the snow? Like what is it about

1088
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 1: this next level that drives this type of athlete?

1089
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 3: You know it's that cliche, but it's just like you

1090
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 3: go through so many challenging training exercises and practices that

1091
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 3: you know, by the time you get to your performance,

1092
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 3: a lot of times you meet it with excitement, but

1093
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 3: sometimes melancholy because you're thinking about like all the work

1094
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 3: you did, and then sometimes the race is over in

1095
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 3: a heartbeat compared to like how wild your journey was.

1096
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 3: I mean, when you had your breakthrough marathon recently, you

1097
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 3: were kind of like sad after because you I'm super

1098
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 3: imposing on you, but like you've left so many emilies

1099
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 3: behind on the way, and like those emilies were a

1100
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 3: reflection of who you were at the time. Nevertheless, you know,

1101
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 3: to reach out and grab something and grab hold of something,

1102
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 3: you necessarily have to let go of your grasp of

1103
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 3: whatever you were holding before. And that is a that's

1104
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 3: an emotional experience, Yeah, especially to reflect on after it's over.

1105
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, man, I know, well then you think

1106
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: about like what you don't have anymore, But then you

1107
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: have to have an appreciation for what you do instead

1108
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 1: of focusing on the things that you don't sure, focus

1109
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 1: on the things that you do.

1110
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1111
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: I also can't let us glaze over the founding of

1112
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 1: Nike Plus. Just talk to me a little bit about that.

1113
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was like an interesting time, I think. Obviously,

1114
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 3: Nike Run Club has has been around in the city

1115
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 3: for over a decade, obviously like almost twenty years. Maybe

1116
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 3: at this point, shortly after Black Rosa started, and I

1117
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 3: think Nike was starting to see that folks wanted more.

1118
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 3: It wasn't just about you know, buying a pair of

1119
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 3: running shoes, throwing them in the closet and pulling them

1120
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 3: out and like slogging your way through a marathon in

1121
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 3: the personal excellence moment and in the running boom in general,

1122
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 3: I think Nike sort of suddenly woke up to the

1123
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 3: fact that folks wanted more and that we could deliver

1124
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 3: that to them. So rather than just getting together for

1125
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 3: like a big group run for the social aspect on

1126
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 3: a Saturday or on a Tuesday, you know, you could

1127
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 3: present folks with coaching resources or like top level coaching

1128
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 3: resources that were informed by elite level practices. You could

1129
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 3: kind of like offer a wide range of training principles

1130
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 3: and practices to folks to complement their running. And so

1131
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 3: in those early days of a Nike Plus Run Club,

1132
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 3: it was like all hands on deck sort of effort

1133
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 3: to open up running to what it could be. I mean,

1134
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 3: one of my sort of fucaye at the time was

1135
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 3: the local run and intense but like weekly runs with

1136
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 3: a cultural destination that looked at some aspect of New

1137
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 3: York City, whether that was Langston Hughes's homes and celebrating

1138
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 3: the Harlem Renaissance, or a run out to Queen's to

1139
01:04:55,640 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 3: sample three different kinds of dumplings from South Asia, you know. Yeah,

1140
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 3: so it was a real chance to again explore the

1141
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 3: greatest city on the planet from a runner's point of view.

1142
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 3: And that also was part of Nike Plus Run Club.

1143
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 3: It wasn't just about like you know, long runs and workouts,

1144
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 3: but it was about running culture in a kind of

1145
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 3: three sixty understanding of it.

1146
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 1: It's funny because I'm thinking about not just the evolution

1147
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: of Nike Plus Run Club, but like how much has

1148
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: happened since it started and how much is different now.

1149
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 1: And it's like I think back to, you know, when

1150
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 1: I had my first Nike Plus Fuel band, right, I

1151
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 1: remember how excited I was to get my custom EA

1152
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: Nike Rose Gold.

1153
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 3: Of course fuel Bland.

1154
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: It was definitely rose gold, Yeah, and you know, like

1155
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 1: what I did with that, and then I mean even

1156
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 1: fast forward to when you and I met when I

1157
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 1: was running the fastest mile with Nike. Just to think

1158
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: about like the gear that we were using then and

1159
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: how different that was versus like what's happening with Nike

1160
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,919
Speaker 1: Plus as an app right now as a whole. It's

1161
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: like worlds away from where it started. I mean, is

1162
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 1: that something that you guys even really comprehended was possible

1163
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: at the beginning.

1164
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think there there were there were

1165
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 3: levels to it. I think on a corporate level, I

1166
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 3: kind of got the sense that like Nike had they

1167
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 3: had so much data, you know, every time you went

1168
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 3: to an event or a party, they had an email

1169
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 3: or like your profile, but there wasn't a unified a

1170
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 3: database of the Nike consumer. Everything was in different silos

1171
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 3: or different servers. And so I think that Nike Plus

1172
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,720
Speaker 3: Run Club, a Nike Run Club on a back end level,

1173
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 3: was about unifying all that data in a way that

1174
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 3: like we could better understand who that runner was, the

1175
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 3: athlete was, and then also how to better serve them.

1176
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 3: Obviously that means like also how to sell them sneakers,

1177
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 3: but how to really sort of support their passion for

1178
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 3: movement and and and that lifestyle. So in a way, yeah,

1179
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 3: it's changed so much, But I think as long as

1180
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 3: the mission is going to be about making better runners

1181
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 3: and making runners better, then it's going to adhere to that.

1182
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 3: The DNA that's been in the company since the very beginning.

1183
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: What does movement and running look like for you these days?

1184
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 3: Now? As I was saying, I'm newly inspired and fired

1185
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:45,439
Speaker 3: up to make another go at a personal time goal

1186
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 3: that's you know, been bewitching me for for all these marathons.

1187
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 3: But I'm also kind of like thinking about no pun intended,

1188
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 3: the road ahead and what that looks like and how

1189
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 3: to keep sharing this idea because in some ways culture

1190
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 3: is fragile, and you know, without sort of taking a

1191
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 3: pretentious view of it, we do have to continue to

1192
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 3: cultivate it and protect it. And so I think a

1193
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 3: lot of times in this ecosystem, it's easy to exploit

1194
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:21,719
Speaker 3: people's passion for running, whether that's like a brand doing

1195
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 3: that or that's a social media influencer doing that, And

1196
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 3: so I really want to keep shining the light for

1197
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 3: what the promise and the passion or maybe like the

1198
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 3: purity of running, the joys that it offers for all

1199
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 3: of us.

1200
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:44,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you said passion for sharing, and obviously

1201
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 1: you've shared a lot of miles with a lot of

1202
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: different people. I'm curious to know when and kind of

1203
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 1: how some of like how you've found yourself in some

1204
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:57,919
Speaker 1: of the insane situations that you have and maybe obviously

1205
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: you can't reflect on all of them, but if you

1206
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 1: could maybe reflect on one or two where you kind

1207
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 1: of just open your eyes and realize, Hey, here I

1208
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: am in far away desert doing X y Z, Like

1209
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 1: how does someone just end up doing some of the

1210
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 1: things that you've been so fortunate to do.

1211
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:23,680
Speaker 3: I've always been a person to write that letter, you know,

1212
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 3: I've always been the person to make that trip. I've

1213
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 3: always been that person to go through an unlocked door.

1214
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 3: You know. Sometimes sometimes I like to to to joke

1215
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 3: that I'm extremely adept at like kicking down unlocked doors,

1216
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 3: you know, like make a lot of noise and make

1217
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 3: it seem super dramatic, but the door was open the

1218
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 3: whole time. But yeah, you know, like again, all the

1219
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:54,599
Speaker 3: sort of experience have the same pattern. Once, I was

1220
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 3: at south By Southwest in the music business and was

1221
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,760
Speaker 3: running with some you know, rich music industry types and

1222
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 3: lawyers there in Austin in the morning, and a group

1223
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 3: of young fit athletes lips by us, you know, and

1224
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 3: one of my good friends just starts talking trash to

1225
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 3: like the kids. They're like, Oh, you think you're so

1226
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 3: fucking bad by passing it, But this guy right here

1227
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 3: is showing you for the Boston Marathon, and I guarantee

1228
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:23,599
Speaker 3: he can kick your ass and one of the dudes

1229
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 3: turned over his shoulder and it's like, oh yeah, and

1230
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 3: I was like ah. I started like thinking about it,

1231
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 3: and I was like, why is this brown dude running

1232
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 3: with this black woman running with like this white dude.

1233
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,080
Speaker 3: This is not like a group of friends, this is

1234
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 3: a team, you know. And yeah, that was an awesome

1235
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 3: track club and we ended up getting into like a

1236
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 3: friendly banter. Invited them out to some south By Southwest shows,

1237
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 3: so they're like backstage C and Diddy and like TV

1238
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 3: on the radio. And then I was asking for like

1239
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 3: a track so I could do you know, my like

1240
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 3: Boston workout while I was there at south By, and

1241
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 3: they invited me to like come out and with them.

1242
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 3: So then next thing you know, I'm like out on

1243
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 3: a track with like Trinier Moser and and Leo Manzano

1244
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 3: and you know folks who again went on who are

1245
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 3: some of the best runners in the world, And so

1246
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 3: all the way along, I have just always kind of

1247
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 3: taken folks up on an offer just to see what's

1248
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 3: going to happen. You're it's nerve wracking, but journalism kind

1249
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 3: of like teaches you to to play it off, like

1250
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,760
Speaker 3: you know, and those interviewing skills come in handy when

1251
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 3: you're just keeping a poker face, uh, you know. And

1252
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 3: and like walking into a training camp in Ethiopia and

1253
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 3: you know, greeting Mo Farra as he's like having his coffee.

1254
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about that, man. Like literally, do you

1255
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 1: just buy a plane ticket and you're like, well, let's

1256
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 1: just see what's gonna happen here.

1257
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've just always I've always done that, like you know.

1258
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 1: And there's no one like stopping you from going to

1259
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 1: hang out with Molfara, no, or like how does Mofera

1260
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:03,280
Speaker 1: feel about you wanting to go hang out with him?

1261
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not going to know until you get kicked out,

1262
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 3: you know. Like sometimes I just think if the only

1263
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 3: thing between me and an experience, or me and a

1264
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 3: breakthrough or me getting that story is a flight, that's

1265
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 3: no deterrent at all.

1266
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 1: That's just like logistics.

1267
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just logistics. The real barrier is like having

1268
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 3: the ideas in the first place. So yeah, I mean

1269
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 3: training out with the guys in Ethiopia was I was

1270
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 3: hanging out with abd Abdi raman four time Olympian before

1271
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 3: the New York City.

1272
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 1: Marathon and how are you hanging out with him?

1273
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 3: This year? I was in good shape and so I

1274
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:47,679
Speaker 3: had the sub elite start. So the sub elite start

1275
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 3: for the New York City Marathon is when like a

1276
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 3: small group of athletes who are on the precipice of

1277
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 3: having a breakthrough get almost the same treatment that the

1278
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 3: elites get a bus out to the star and staying

1279
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 3: in a warm room and now you know, there's a

1280
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 3: warm up track and all that kind of stuff. So yeah,

1281
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 3: I definitely jumped at the opportunity to be in the

1282
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 3: sub eleete start. Went out and I'm out there stretching

1283
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:16,759
Speaker 3: and the rich white dudes from like New York City

1284
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:20,679
Speaker 3: posh clubs sitting on the bleachers and talking to each other.

1285
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 3: That's not really my type. So I was just thinking

1286
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 3: I was gonna hang out with the brothers. So I

1287
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 3: just went over and was like sat next to meb

1288
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 3: and I'd be, you know, like, what's up, guys. You know,

1289
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 3: like not trying to like rub elbows with dudes who

1290
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 3: are running two o eight, But you know, whatever I

1291
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 3: think i'd be at the time, was trying to be

1292
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,639
Speaker 3: polite and nice to me for like hanging out over there,

1293
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 3: but also maybe trying to show off in front of

1294
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 3: the other guys that he knew me, that he knew

1295
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 3: like a regular person. So Obdy just says like, Hey, man,

1296
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:58,640
Speaker 3: I think I'm gonna go to Ethiopia and with Mo

1297
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 3: and help MO get ready for or London. You should

1298
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 3: come out. And I was like, yeah, all right, cool.

1299
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 3: And that day, like I went home and told my lady.

1300
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 3: I was like, look, I gotta go to Ethiopia. I

1301
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 3: don't think the guys really thought I was gonna show up,

1302
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 3: but you know, obviously I stayed in touch with Abdy,

1303
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 3: bought the flight, and then walked into the training camp

1304
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 3: one day and guys were like, what's up. I was like,

1305
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 3: what's up?

1306
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 1: Remever me from the start, Hey, wow, okay, what would

1307
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 1: you say that personality trait in you this like knock

1308
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 1: down the unlocked door? Yeah, what would you say that

1309
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:45,639
Speaker 1: that has actually just unlocked for you?

1310
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 3: You know, there's this concept in meditation about like what's

1311
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 3: happening behind the eyes and seeing like behind the eyes

1312
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 3: when you're in that meditative state, and I like, I've

1313
01:14:55,160 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 3: always been I've always had this practice of like introducing

1314
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 3: myself as a character just to watch what happens. It's

1315
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 3: almost like you introduce a personality for people to react to,

1316
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 3: and then you study that reaction and you learn from that,

1317
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:19,879
Speaker 3: and then that sort of and that's a super abstract example,

1318
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,600
Speaker 3: but that's just what I would do in journalism, and

1319
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 3: then that's sort of what I've just done. Like in running,

1320
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 3: I really was just using sort of journalistic practices of

1321
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:33,920
Speaker 3: just walking through the door, you know, and just to

1322
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 3: find out, like all the stuff I thought, you know,

1323
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 3: it was true, is not. You know, for instance, if

1324
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 3: you read let's run message boards, you think every elite

1325
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 3: is like on wild performance enhancing drugs. And so the

1326
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 3: first time I started hanging out with elites, I was

1327
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 3: like didn't want to like go in the room or

1328
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 3: whatever because I thought there'd be like the mini fridge

1329
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 3: full of syringes. And then also I like had such

1330
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 3: a high esteem for like athletes and how glamorous their

1331
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 3: lives that I was. I thought that there was gonna

1332
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:06,320
Speaker 3: be like groupies hanging around. I'm thinking, like I'm coming

1333
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:09,959
Speaker 3: to the music business. I'm thinking about like rap videos,

1334
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 3: so I just think that like there's gonna be like

1335
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:16,639
Speaker 3: fridges of drugs and like people shooting up and all that,

1336
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:19,600
Speaker 3: and then you realize these are like kids out of

1337
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:21,920
Speaker 3: school who are making fifteen thousand dollars a year and

1338
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 3: like a cup of noodles once a day just to survive,

1339
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:29,760
Speaker 3: and like run to chase their dreams of being like

1340
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:31,640
Speaker 3: some of the best runners in the world. And so

1341
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:40,280
Speaker 3: really looking at how tough and bleak and elite runners

1342
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 3: existence can be was one of the early sort of

1343
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 3: illuminations that I had, and if anything, I kind of

1344
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:51,759
Speaker 3: have also wanted to share that, you know, with folks

1345
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 3: as well.

1346
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 1: What would you say? And this is going to be

1347
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:58,639
Speaker 1: kind of twofold first fold best piece of advice that

1348
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 1: maybe you've offered somebody else when it comes to that

1349
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:05,400
Speaker 1: first run, and then the second fold of this that

1350
01:17:05,439 --> 01:17:08,400
Speaker 1: we'll get you after you answer that is really maybe

1351
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:10,960
Speaker 1: the best piece of advice that you've been offered to

1352
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 1: keep going on the run.

1353
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 3: Lately, I've been telling folks just simply to give yourself

1354
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:23,600
Speaker 3: a chance. You know, I think on race day that's

1355
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:25,760
Speaker 3: been some advice that I've been giving over the past

1356
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:28,320
Speaker 3: couple of years. And it must sound super underwhelming, Like

1357
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 3: after you come on this epic training journey and you're

1358
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 3: in the shape of your life and then all of

1359
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 3: a sudden, your coach is like, just go out there

1360
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 3: and give yourself a chance. But I feel that, like

1361
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:42,680
Speaker 3: that's actually a very provocative idea. You know, we do

1362
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 3: so many things to hinder ourselves and hamper ourselves with

1363
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:51,919
Speaker 3: self doubt and self criticism and sort of self denial

1364
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:56,639
Speaker 3: that after you've put in all this work, the real

1365
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:01,640
Speaker 3: liberation comes from just like freeing yourself from that and

1366
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 3: just seeing what happens if you go outside of your

1367
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:10,559
Speaker 3: comfort zone and and what happens to you on the

1368
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 3: other side, or what happens to you through that process.

1369
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:17,200
Speaker 3: So again, underwhelming as it may sound, I've been suggesting

1370
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:19,120
Speaker 3: folks to just go out there and give yourself a

1371
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:22,760
Speaker 3: chance on the day and then some of the best

1372
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:27,720
Speaker 3: running advices. It was specific, but again, you know, I

1373
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 3: met this guy, Leo Manzano from from from Austin, Texas,

1374
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:34,759
Speaker 3: one of the top runners in the world, multiple Olympian

1375
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:37,719
Speaker 3: and national champion, ended up getting the silver medal in London.

1376
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 3: I called them up and I was like, hey, man,

1377
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:44,120
Speaker 3: I'm starting this running magazine and I'd like to come

1378
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:47,240
Speaker 3: down to the camp, you know, for a day or

1379
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 3: two with a photographer and take some photos and do

1380
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 3: like a whole story from my magazine. And Leo said,

1381
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:56,640
Speaker 3: hey man, that sounds cool, but why don't you just

1382
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 3: come and stay for the whole time. Stay for three

1383
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:06,720
Speaker 3: weeks you might learn something about running. And I think

1384
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 3: that's why I got on the plane because I was

1385
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:11,639
Speaker 3: so annoyed. I was like, learn something about running, dude,

1386
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:13,800
Speaker 3: I'm starting a running magazine. Of course I know everything

1387
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:16,200
Speaker 3: about running. What do you mean, learn something about running?

1388
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 3: And I was so intrigued by the deft way in

1389
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 3: which my man said, like, come and see that. That

1390
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:28,639
Speaker 3: is so you know, there's always something to learn at

1391
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 3: this craft and this practice. So for me, that's what's

1392
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 3: kept me humble from then is like the fact that like,

1393
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:38,000
Speaker 3: hey man, come down and learn something. There's always something

1394
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 3: to learn.

1395
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 1: What would you say? And your time interacting with so

1396
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 1: many of these top level performers has been one of

1397
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 1: the biggest takeaways for you.

1398
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:49,320
Speaker 3: I wish I had stuff that, like, you know, you

1399
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:52,640
Speaker 3: could put on a T shirt, was marketable, but I

1400
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 3: learned that you're supposed to eat immediately following to workout,

1401
01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:59,799
Speaker 3: and so at these camps, the athletes were like making

1402
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 3: sandwiches in the morning and packing them in their bag.

1403
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:06,280
Speaker 3: And you know, they do these epic track workouts and

1404
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 3: then go to the gym and like do deadlifts after

1405
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:12,120
Speaker 3: and in between the track and the gym, this like

1406
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:14,439
Speaker 3: one hundred meter walk they were reaching into like eating

1407
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 3: two sandwiches like halfway. I was like, you're eating two

1408
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,919
Speaker 3: sandwiches like halfway through a workout and then going to lift.

1409
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:25,040
Speaker 3: So I learned. I learned always packed two sandwiches, And yeah,

1410
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:27,479
Speaker 3: I think that's good advice for life in general. Always

1411
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:28,760
Speaker 3: pack two sandwiches.

1412
01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 1: Always have them with you. Yeah, you have a great

1413
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:35,880
Speaker 1: platform now, and on that platform again the opportunity to

1414
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:39,599
Speaker 1: help a lot of people. When people come there, they

1415
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 1: read your advice, they read your feedback, they read your thoughts,

1416
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 1: and they see visually a guy that likes to run.

1417
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 1: When you look in the mirror, what is it that

1418
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 1: you see looking back at you?

1419
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 3: I see when I look in the mirror. I very

1420
01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 3: rarely look in the mirror, But on those occasions when

1421
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 3: I do, I see someone who is perpetually engaged in struggle,

1422
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:13,000
Speaker 3: and I think that that's beautiful. I am definitely in

1423
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 3: a constant struggle with myself and understanding myself and my

1424
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:23,240
Speaker 3: motivations and my appetites. But I'm also engaged in a

1425
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 3: struggle for folks to, in the words of Bob Marley,

1426
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 3: to you know, emancipate themselves for mental slavery. I feel

1427
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 3: like so much of us have a yearning for freedom.

1428
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:42,840
Speaker 3: It's probably one of my lifelong pursuits to investigate and

1429
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:48,960
Speaker 3: understand what it takes to be liberated and what it

1430
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 3: means to be free, and you know, sharing that back

1431
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:59,000
Speaker 3: with folks, whether they want to hear it or not.

1432
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 3: I see someone who is troubled, but at the same

1433
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:09,000
Speaker 3: time someone who as the years have gone on, I

1434
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:15,519
Speaker 3: realize that there are things we can do to deepen

1435
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 3: our understanding of ourselves and the challenges that life brings

1436
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:24,759
Speaker 3: us as a matter of course, and that and of itself,

1437
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:29,120
Speaker 3: has just made me dive deeper into, you know, those

1438
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:33,080
Speaker 3: practices and whether that's writing, running, meditating.

1439
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:40,080
Speaker 1: You within the last few years, as you said, added

1440
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 1: a regular meditation practice into your regular running routine. Do

1441
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:52,519
Speaker 1: you foresee there being any other unlocks that you can

1442
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:55,759
Speaker 1: reach for when it comes to gearing up for London

1443
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:58,360
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty.

1444
01:22:58,160 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 3: The unlocks are perpetual and for a long time after

1445
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 3: I had this last performance peak, this unexpected, an unparallel

1446
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,920
Speaker 3: performance peak for me a couple of years ago. You know,

1447
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:13,120
Speaker 3: no one ever tells you about the downside of that mountain,

1448
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:18,639
Speaker 3: and I was thoroughly unprepared for the slippery slope from

1449
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 3: running fast times and whatever it took to get me

1450
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:25,000
Speaker 3: to that level. And it was a real walk through

1451
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:29,960
Speaker 3: the wilderness after. And so for a lot of that time,

1452
01:23:30,280 --> 01:23:36,280
Speaker 3: when I wasn't numb and self medicating and you know,

1453
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 3: turning through my life with any mistake possible, I was thinking,

1454
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:42,439
Speaker 3: I gotta get back, I gotta get back, I gotta

1455
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:45,439
Speaker 3: get back. And recently I came to realize that there

1456
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 3: is no getting back, you know, because why would you

1457
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:52,479
Speaker 3: expend all that effort just to get back to where

1458
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 3: you were. Why wouldn't you just keep going and go farther.

1459
01:23:55,600 --> 01:24:02,680
Speaker 3: So for me, that was a big release for me. So, yeah,

1460
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:06,400
Speaker 3: I'm don't think about where I was before. Now I'm

1461
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:08,559
Speaker 3: only thinking about where I'm going and like what I'm

1462
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 3: going to do when I get there.

1463
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:13,360
Speaker 1: So the way that I close out is right now,

1464
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:15,400
Speaker 1: what I'd love for you to do is think about

1465
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 1: the guy that walked away from running and that was

1466
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:21,719
Speaker 1: a really hard time for you, A hurdle moment for sure.

1467
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 1: So right now you the opportunity to offer the guy

1468
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:30,320
Speaker 1: back then one piece of advice. What would you tell him?

1469
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:35,920
Speaker 3: I would say, take your time. You know, it takes

1470
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:40,679
Speaker 3: time to sort it all out and figure it out

1471
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:45,400
Speaker 3: and it's okay. So for the young person who's having

1472
01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:47,640
Speaker 3: a tough time with running or has there you know

1473
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:51,479
Speaker 3: really what it is, it's about like heartbreak to love

1474
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:59,839
Speaker 3: running so much and have running break your heart is crushing.

1475
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:01,720
Speaker 3: See like a lot of folks around us right in

1476
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,479
Speaker 3: this running ecosystem who have had their hearts broken by it.

1477
01:25:06,040 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 3: And I would just say to that person who finds

1478
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:12,080
Speaker 3: them self challenged by it and heartbroken, just give it

1479
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:15,840
Speaker 3: time for that room to heal and know that running

1480
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 3: is going to be there and it's going to welcome

1481
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:22,160
Speaker 3: you back, you know, when you're ready.

1482
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:24,280
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for sitting down with me.

1483
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:26,560
Speaker 3: That's has been super special. Thanks for the opportunity.

1484
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:28,880
Speaker 1: Please take a moment and leave a quick review by

1485
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:31,600
Speaker 1: clicking the link with the description to this episode. We

1486
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 1: all face multiple hurdles in life. I want to hear

1487
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 1: about yours. Reach out to me at Emily at Hurdle

1488
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:39,759
Speaker 1: dot youus. Connect with the podcast Instagram, Twitter at Hurdle

1489
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:42,720
Speaker 1: Podcast Knox. Where do they find you? How do they

1490
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 1: keep up with you?

1491
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:47,960
Speaker 3: Uh? You can find me in the on the bike

1492
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 3: paths in Prospect Park or eating with my hands in

1493
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:55,680
Speaker 3: Ethiopia and on Instagram at first.

1494
01:25:55,479 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 1: Run, I am at Emily Abodi another hurdle conquered. Catch

1495
01:26:00,240 --> 01:26:00,960
Speaker 1: you guys next time