Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations with
Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, business editor for Variety. Today's guest is Clive Davis.
Speaker 1: Like many great musical artists, Clive has achieved one name
Speaker 1: status in the entertainment industry as the top music executive
Speaker 1: for the Columbia and Arista labels. His work stretched from
Speaker 1: Janice Joplin, Bruce Springsteen, and Patti Smith to Aretha Franklin,
Speaker 1: Whitney Houston, and Shaun Combs. Davis these days has been
Speaker 1: consumed with producing a movie biopic of Houston that just
Speaker 1: landed a big deal at Sony Pictures. In our conversation,
Speaker 1: Davis talks me through how he assembled the package in
Speaker 1: an unusual way and how he and screenwriter Anthony McCartin
Speaker 1: didn't exchange a penny until they were both satisfied with
Speaker 1: a completed script. It's granular deal making dish from an
Speaker 1: industry master. Clive is so passionate about the Houston movie
Speaker 1: that you can hear him pounding the table as he speaks.
Speaker 1: Clive Davis, Wow, what a legend. We are so grateful
Speaker 1: that you stopped by to give us some time to
Speaker 1: talk about the industry and the many things that you
Speaker 1: have going on right now. UM, let's dive in you are.
Speaker 1: Just yesterday we got some big news, some big news
Speaker 1: moving forward, the Whitney Houston biopic that you that you
Speaker 1: are Shepherd NG. Can you talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: that project. It seems like it's just coming together. Well, yes,
Speaker 1: I can't talk about the project I was I've really
Speaker 1: not been happy with the documentaries that have come out
Speaker 1: on Whitney. Um, they don't reflect any real understanding of music. UM.
Speaker 1: In the case of the Kevin MacDonald one, UM, you know,
Speaker 1: he admitted to me that he doesn't know music. And therefore,
Speaker 1: not only is there nothing from me or baby Face
Speaker 1: or any of the incredible influence that Whitney had on
Speaker 1: not just other autists but people music fans to general
Speaker 1: public all over the world. So that yes, it's not
Speaker 1: my intent. It was not my original intent by anything
Speaker 1: to whitewash any of the battles that Whitney face. But
Speaker 1: the full story of our the Witney that I have
Speaker 1: known uh since her main teen years, has not been told.
Speaker 1: So I would say it was probably over a year
Speaker 1: ago that I met Anthony mccaud and the screenwriter. He
Speaker 1: wrote The Indian Rhapsody, he wrote The Two Pops, was
Speaker 1: just nominated the Academy Award. He wrote in a brilliant
Speaker 1: films on Churchill, on Steven Hawkins, the theory of everything,
Speaker 1: the dark is to our And so that I wanted
Speaker 1: you just got a start with a great writer who
Speaker 1: likes music, and Anthony put that bill and we clicked,
Speaker 1: so that it was really a year ago that Empty
Speaker 1: and I not only met, but we started working on
Speaker 1: on this biopic. And so that when we've just come,
Speaker 1: when the announcement has just come that we have made
Speaker 1: a distribution arrangement with Sony, Uh, we've come with a
Speaker 1: full script. We've come with a completed script. And I
Speaker 1: made sure that Anthony really met everybody that was a
Speaker 1: key player in the life of Whitney to understand her,
Speaker 1: not only members of her family, but those that worked
Speaker 1: with her, those that even her psychiatrist, if you will,
Speaker 1: and from my files that I was so eager to
Speaker 1: have other documentaries include, but they just felt music was
Speaker 1: not that same, and uh, it will be here. This
Speaker 1: will be a musically rich biopic. It will be, as
Speaker 1: I said in the announcement, no hold barm but it
Speaker 1: will capture with me, and so we're very excited about it.
Speaker 1: The financing had been raised Sony one of really a
Speaker 1: fierce battle other labels, Uh, you know studios were passionate
Speaker 1: as well. Um and um, we're really excited now to
Speaker 1: move forward with what I hope to be a classic
Speaker 1: all time film. Do you enjoy that kind of work?
Speaker 1: Do you like the work of being a movie producer?
Speaker 1: This is the first film that I will have produce.
Speaker 1: But I've got to say I'm no newcomer to the
Speaker 1: world of film. I was on the board of CBS
Speaker 1: when it first got into film. For many years. I
Speaker 1: was on the board of Columbia Pictures. Uh, obviously, and
Speaker 1: that business was there. Um. You know, for all the
Speaker 1: years that Columbia Pictures owned arist I was on the board.
Speaker 1: I was intimately involved. May I say, as my documentary
Speaker 1: graphically points out David Boston's documentary currently graphically point out
Speaker 1: in making The Bodyguard. So although I was not a
Speaker 1: producer there, I really it. Being Whitney's first film, it
Speaker 1: was important. Um. And so that when the first cut
Speaker 1: of that film came in. Uh, it had very little music.
Speaker 1: It was just a pure mystery for our You have
Speaker 1: no idea why Whitney needed a bodyguard, And um, I
Speaker 1: really wrote a long letter, okay, and Kevin Costner and
Speaker 1: the director mc jackson and said, look, I know him,
Speaker 1: the head of the of which these record company you
Speaker 1: might expect. This time, I'll let her from the head
Speaker 1: of her record company. But I'm saying to your film,
Speaker 1: you have got to show why she needed a bodyguard.
Speaker 1: To drama of the two of them connecting the way
Speaker 1: they did will be far more uh compelling. And Kevin
Speaker 1: cuts the board into it, and to his credit he
Speaker 1: David Foster myself, we just picked in and came up
Speaker 1: with all the other storms that have made Bodyguard the
Speaker 1: biggest song soundtrack album in history to this day. And um,
Speaker 1: I've been very much involved with Waiting to Excel, which
Speaker 1: is second film with the tim score. When I thought
Speaker 1: first saw that the time score was Johnny Mathis, James Taylor,
Speaker 1: Stephen Bishop, and it didn't promotely speak for the subject matter.
Speaker 1: What's wrong with that picture? What's wrong with that picture?
Speaker 1: And so I suggested, and I think he was sharing. Um,
Speaker 1: who's such a wonderful, pioneering, brilliant woman movie had um
Speaker 1: we brought in baby face and um he wrote classics
Speaker 1: all for each character we had, you know, sitting in
Speaker 1: my room by Brandy and Ah, I couldn't hurt the
Speaker 1: Mary Jane plage number one with me had too. I
Speaker 1: mean it was the plastic film using Musing as the
Speaker 1: bodyguard to become a huge world uh sellers. So that
Speaker 1: I've been involved, you know, really with every Whitney and
Speaker 1: film as well as a number of bus so it's
Speaker 1: not a strange area for me. Do I like it? Yes?
Speaker 1: I have a mission here. I have a mission to
Speaker 1: make sure that for all time that the full picture
Speaker 1: would be used in his capture uh in the nohul
Speaker 1: board film. But musically rich that chose her genius U
Speaker 1: and chose more for a character than the public has
Speaker 1: that alert today you must have had. Your phone must
Speaker 1: be overflowing with people calling wanting to pitt you actors,
Speaker 1: to p a Whitney. It's such a plum, such a
Speaker 1: great role. Well, the one thing that we know of
Speaker 1: because we have not said a word, and no has
Speaker 1: there been any effort to cast her yet. But the
Speaker 1: one thing we know as distinguished from the Aretha bio
Speaker 1: as distinguished from the eight part TV Genius series where
Speaker 1: Sane Fa Hudson things as a wreatha or since a
Speaker 1: revote things as a wreatha. In the Whitney Bio book,
Speaker 1: it will all be with UM. So we don't have
Speaker 1: to go if there is any if there is any
Speaker 1: UH vocalists out there that could capture a Whitney, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure there is. UM. It won't be necessary for
Speaker 1: the artists that portrays or to say, because it's going
Speaker 1: to all be Whitney, including performances that have not been
Speaker 1: on record, UH, so that it will not just be
Speaker 1: all of the greatest. It's better be musically rich in
Speaker 1: so many ways. Tell me, how how did you go about?
Speaker 1: You must have had to approach Sony for them for
Speaker 1: the rights to the catalog? Was that? Are they involved
Speaker 1: in the film? How did that go down? No? What
Speaker 1: happened was that Anthony and I've been a year together,
Speaker 1: me making sure that this great writer, the Academy Award
Speaker 1: connected writer that so many of the actors in his
Speaker 1: films have won Academy Awards as well as UH the
Speaker 1: films that he has written that he'd be educated and
Speaker 1: um and so that uh. We decided, both he and
Speaker 1: I that we would not just have an outline or
Speaker 1: taught through, but have the actual script. And so we
Speaker 1: do have the actual script. We went to all the
Speaker 1: studios we have obviously, so people have the soundtrack album
Speaker 1: because of the masters and all the masters that it does. Oh,
Speaker 1: but we did go competitively. There are four producers here
Speaker 1: actually certainly mentioned the estate who was thrilled I would
Speaker 1: produced back Houston and in the spell bouh of the
Speaker 1: Whitneys in this day to Anthony. They spent time together,
Speaker 1: um and um. We went and there was a fierce competition.
Speaker 1: And I'm happy to say the reaction to the script,
Speaker 1: to use the word of almost every studio head that
Speaker 1: called me their passionate. They know that Whitney has been
Speaker 1: captured and that the opportunity here it is so special
Speaker 1: and you need when you started with Anthony working on
Speaker 1: the script, did you write the check to get him going?
Speaker 1: Did you finance the early development of this project yourself.
Speaker 1: I did not view getting me as importantly as I
Speaker 1: view getting him. He knew that it wasn't that I
Speaker 1: just signed with he knew that it wasn't that I
Speaker 1: was there from her entire life and how close we were.
Speaker 1: I collaborated with her on every song that was joke.
Speaker 1: I would narrow down my hundreds. I would to the
Speaker 1: ten she and I met, no matter what who she
Speaker 1: was involved with, a marriage, Bobby parents who never she
Speaker 1: never would let anyone else there. So that in the
Speaker 1: entire selection of music, all the hits, all the background
Speaker 1: of her sul stories. Um that, Um, I can pay
Speaker 1: a penny to him. He didn't pay a penny to me.
Speaker 1: We just hit it off. We've spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time at dinners. He came to my home right for
Speaker 1: him quarantine right now, and where I live in Manhattan.
Speaker 1: We've really spent a lot of time together going through
Speaker 1: different um you know, uh drafts of this of the
Speaker 1: script as he got more and more indicated here. So
Speaker 1: that no, I didn't finance, and I think in the
Speaker 1: annivers anybody. We hit it off and the tour was said,
Speaker 1: let's do it together. We said that on two projects,
Speaker 1: the second one we haven't even talked about what we
Speaker 1: did legally commit to each other. Um. We agreed that
Speaker 1: there still could be a great film on Janus chocolin,
Speaker 1: so we said of either of us would never be
Speaker 1: get involved with Janus Chocolate. We would do that together
Speaker 1: as well. But we have done no nothing on on
Speaker 1: that point. But I was happy to introduce him uh
Speaker 1: to Pat Houston, to LARRYM. Mistell. They spent time with them.
Speaker 1: By that time we had the craft of the close
Speaker 1: to final draft of the script and they were thrilled.
Speaker 1: And that's how it happened. What do you think it
Speaker 1: was that allowed you to make such an important personal
Speaker 1: and business connection with Whitney? Why we Why were you
Speaker 1: so important in her life? Do you know? It began
Speaker 1: from the very beginning. I was not the first one
Speaker 1: to see Whitney used. I was told about Whitnan, had
Speaker 1: heard about Whitney from UH they and R man that
Speaker 1: worked for me, Jerry Griffith. I've heard about her from
Speaker 1: Luther Vandros because she had done some studio background singing,
Speaker 1: but um other labels. I know that I think Elector
Speaker 1: of Epic had seen her before me. But I do
Speaker 1: vividly remember, no matter what the passing of he is,
Speaker 1: when I saw her at a club, Sweet Boarders, where
Speaker 1: she was doing backgrounds from for her mother. Sissing, and
Speaker 1: she stepped out to do two solos. One was Home
Speaker 1: from the Whiz. That was clearly I had never matter.
Speaker 1: She chose Home from the Whiz. The other was the
Speaker 1: Greatest Love Wall Now. That was the song I had
Speaker 1: commissioned eight years before for the Life of Mohammed Ali,
Speaker 1: and I got Michael Ansome uh he wrote that, and
Speaker 1: we had the soundtrack to the Greatest was the film
Speaker 1: called on Mamad. Joe Benson at the top ten record
Speaker 1: with Never Going to Me auditioning was young eighteen to
Speaker 1: nineteen year old teenager and it was though I had
Speaker 1: never heard the song before, she found meaning in her
Speaker 1: read of it. It honestly is the genius of with Me.
Speaker 1: Before I met her and um clearly there was competition,
Speaker 1: and it was she and her parents and her lawyers
Speaker 1: who made a request of me that I have never
Speaker 1: given in my career to any artists before ward me
Speaker 1: or any artists afterward me, because it's so uncomfortable. And
Speaker 1: that request was, I will sign with you if you
Speaker 1: give me one clause. I said, what's that? If you
Speaker 1: ever leave the company, I can leave with you because
Speaker 1: I know what you did for my cousin Deale moment.
Speaker 1: I know what you did for the long time relationship
Speaker 1: my mom Sissy have with the REFA Franklin. I need
Speaker 1: that personal commitment from you. But whatever you've done for Dion,
Speaker 1: whatever you've done for a Refa, you will do for me.
Speaker 1: And if for any reason you leave the company, now
Speaker 1: that's a tough I could not give up that. I
Speaker 1: had to go to the parent company and that year
Speaker 1: in three and involved r c A and general electorate,
Speaker 1: and I had to say, I know the conflict here.
Speaker 1: I can make this decision. Give me a lot of
Speaker 1: quote power if she becomes big. And they asked me
Speaker 1: one question, are you passionate about her? I said, I
Speaker 1: am deeply passionate about her. We got the approval, she
Speaker 1: got the key mand goals, so that that connection. I
Speaker 1: did whatever I did do for Dion with I'll Never
Speaker 1: Love this way again, Djabel and Heartbreaker that put friends
Speaker 1: of form with the reef Or at the beginning, and
Speaker 1: so to two years that I knew how you need
Speaker 1: and special I had. I didn't take anything for granted.
Speaker 1: I had auditions for the biggest songwriters in the world
Speaker 1: in New York, in Los Angeles, I said she does
Speaker 1: not write she wants the best material. I want the
Speaker 1: best material bar And that's how we assembled the material
Speaker 1: for that first album with my good friend Michael Massa.
Speaker 1: Tractically passed with a few years ago, but I've got
Speaker 1: father to daughter um from kaush On orished artist to
Speaker 1: name Jackson got involved and that is the background of
Speaker 1: the assembling of the material two years before the debut
Speaker 1: album came out. Five is the with the physical product,
Speaker 1: the physical music product, with sales of those dwindling. We
Speaker 1: we know from artists that the digital revenue just isn't
Speaker 1: making up the same amount of income that they once
Speaker 1: got from recorded music. Do you think that the the
Speaker 1: shift in artists the real money making potential for artists
Speaker 1: is so often in touring. Is that changing the whole
Speaker 1: nature of the business. Do you think do you think
Speaker 1: that that artists are um that recorded music is less
Speaker 1: of a potential, you know, profit center for artists than
Speaker 1: it than it once was. I think, but we're still
Speaker 1: is an early transitional period um streaming as an electrifying
Speaker 1: effect on the easy business. All of us in it
Speaker 1: are greed so grateful that you know, music is more
Speaker 1: on the present all over the world than ever, and
Speaker 1: as it develops, um, and it's really still in the
Speaker 1: process of developing. I'm hopeful that it's electrifying growth will
Speaker 1: end up where artists can indeed, autists, writers can make
Speaker 1: more money from digital uh, certainly than has been in
Speaker 1: the past. H And get back to that. But touring
Speaker 1: is very much a part of that's attorning during this
Speaker 1: quarantine period. You know, we're all human, we're all known. Um.
Speaker 1: You know we've got a presidential race in November on
Speaker 1: this issue as to we have to respect. We've got
Speaker 1: to get better first. Okay, I'm on the side of
Speaker 1: those Let's say, before we returned to normal, let's get
Speaker 1: healthy and make sure we stay healthy rather than push
Speaker 1: it and have sacrifice by human beings in the process. So,
Speaker 1: but in Seane before the quarantine, stadium to us like
Speaker 1: we've never seen before. Uh, it's been astonishing, um, how
Speaker 1: as I said, and a cheering can be playing with
Speaker 1: stadiums and just not just a big artists or not
Speaker 1: just the best selling artists, the older established iconic artists. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's been amazing. So touring, Uh, it is bigger than
Speaker 1: ever when normal and told it returns to normal, and
Speaker 1: I know in this in this period where it's not
Speaker 1: normal and people can't tour. I know you've been involved
Speaker 1: with this, with the really wonderful industry based fundraising effort
Speaker 1: called Quarantine that has done a lot of good for
Speaker 1: great organizations focused on COVID been relief. Um, what is that?
Speaker 1: What have those Zoom concerts? What have those taught you
Speaker 1: or what do you think those reflect about what music
Speaker 1: can do for people, particularly in in troubled times. It's
Speaker 1: been truly an unexpected amazing experience for me. When Richard White,
Speaker 1: who we had t people William Mors told me about
Speaker 1: what he and his daughter de Me were planning on
Speaker 1: Zoom for charity. UM, I went on board. I said
Speaker 1: I would help out right from the beginning, not at all, um,
Speaker 1: anticipating the magnitude of what it would grow to, and
Speaker 1: so that we've now raised over ten million dollars for
Speaker 1: charity and for me, I've freached back and over this
Speaker 1: few months period, whether it was Rod Stewart, whether it
Speaker 1: was Barren Madelon, I've gone back to speak to artists
Speaker 1: that I haven't spoken to sin end decades, but I
Speaker 1: can think of as a lie, are they golf Uncle?
Speaker 1: Whom I did be too. They've all done it. If
Speaker 1: I called them called the Simon friends of mine, Elvis Costello,
Speaker 1: Brian Adams, UM, Jennifer Hudson, UM, They've both done it.
Speaker 1: They loved doing it. A few have done it more
Speaker 1: than one. Clive, let me ask you, if you were
Speaker 1: giving advice to your younger self, if you were coming
Speaker 1: out of Harvard Law School today, in the music and
Speaker 1: entertainment industry today, what direction do you think young Clive
Speaker 1: Davis would go? Would you think you would you still
Speaker 1: go into music as an executive? Would you go into
Speaker 1: talent management? What? What would be your interest you think
Speaker 1: if you were starting today, well, personally correct an impression
Speaker 1: when I get out of publics, the perfect thing from
Speaker 1: my mind? What's that I would ever go into the
Speaker 1: music business. I like music. I was. I was listening
Speaker 1: to the biggest station at that time of You and
Speaker 1: the W Martin Black as a pan, But I wasn't
Speaker 1: consumed by it. I had no thought of a career direction.
Speaker 1: Uh in that I got into a ba accent. I
Speaker 1: was just trying to survive. I had no money. My
Speaker 1: parents died after my first man year. Coincidentally, tradically traumatically
Speaker 1: um so I had four thousand dollars to my name.
Speaker 1: I'm the only way that I would rise upon my station.
Speaker 1: My father was an electrician, high settled. It was the law.
Speaker 1: So by luck my law firm that I was accepted
Speaker 1: by represented womb be a record. By luck. Two years
Speaker 1: later they needed a chief counsel. I never thought I
Speaker 1: could discover artists, never thought I could find songs and
Speaker 1: our artists repertor. So I didn't say that to myself today. Today.
Speaker 1: I had to face this simply a few years ago
Speaker 1: because because of the fact that I got through Colorge
Speaker 1: and law school to the beneficence of others via scholarship.
Speaker 1: When I could give back, I'd give him back through
Speaker 1: music education of endowed at the Cloud David's Institute of
Speaker 1: Recorded Music, they get the degree. We were attracting so
Speaker 1: many young artists, writers, produces who really want a career
Speaker 1: in music. So to get to your question, before streaming,
Speaker 1: we were in tough shape. Music had dropped dramatically when
Speaker 1: people thought they were entitled to it free ofthing, and
Speaker 1: and now with assurance, I am encouraging all of them
Speaker 1: to pursue music as their career. And it became unexpected
Speaker 1: to me my block, but I poured myself into it
Speaker 1: and found a career that keeps from impassionate if you
Speaker 1: will to this day. And um, it's a wonderful life.
Speaker 1: And music. Uh, it's so important to everybody, so important
Speaker 1: in times like ease and good times bad times, if
Speaker 1: you will, um, So my advice would be, if music
Speaker 1: rings through you, go for go for apply, whether it's
Speaker 1: in my school or Monty ben Dian's at Syracuse or
Speaker 1: ovens now around the country, study it. Keep that work
Speaker 1: at the card. For me, they don't play your records
Speaker 1: because you discover drop on those bring sticks. You gotta
Speaker 1: you gotta be there right with it. Keep your ears
Speaker 1: from I still listen to every taught record when it
Speaker 1: comes out to see how music is changing. If you
Speaker 1: still love it and you still feel it, you never
Speaker 1: want to go over the hill. And so, um, those
Speaker 1: are my tenants and that's my advice. My goodness, when
Speaker 1: I just think about all the incredible artists that you are,
Speaker 1: that you have intersected with over the years. Pattie Smith,
Speaker 1: who was pretty much you know to this day, remains
Speaker 1: my idol. When I was a teenager, I played that
Speaker 1: I played that horses, I played the grooves out of
Speaker 1: out of horses, and that just think of all the
Speaker 1: artists over the years and that you are still putting
Speaker 1: together movie projects and moving it forward. Uh. I'm so
Speaker 1: grateful that you spent time talking to me today. It's
Speaker 1: really been a pleasure. And uh, you know, thank you
Speaker 1: for all the good work that you do. Much pleasure,
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, thank you, thank you. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Be sure to leave us a review at Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1: We love to hear from listeners, and be sure to
Speaker 1: tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business.