WEBVTT - A Second Electrolysis Union Appears 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:08.160 Cool Zone Media. Welcome to it could Happen Here, a 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:10.840 podcast about things falling apart and putting them back together 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:13.400 again and occasionally discovering that there is in fact a 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:17.079 second union. I am your host to MEO long now. 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.560 A little while back, I did an interview with a 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.800 group of electrolysis workers who are working for a company 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.000 called Real Electrolysis, and we talked about, you know, their 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.639 unionization efforts and the kind of horror show that was 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.479 going on there. Now, what I didn't mention at the 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:37.520 time was that in the process of talking to those 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.080 workers and that union, I learned that there was in 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:45.479 fact a second union that had been organized kind of 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:50.320 unrelated to the first union at the other location. And 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.960 that is who we are talking to today to get 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:57.000 an update on what has been going on in general 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:00.920 with the entire situation, and also to talk about their 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.000 union and a thing that you will kind of commonly 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:08.080 experience randomly unionizing places, which is that sometimes there is 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.760 another organizing effort at another one of the locations, at 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:13.679 the same place that you were organizing, and you don't 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:18.720 know about it because everyone's keeping it secret. So yeah, 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.440 to talk about this, I'm joined by Lake and Angie 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:25.400 from Gender Affirming Care Workers Alliance. Yeah, both of you two, 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:26.320 welcome to the show. 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.440 Hi, thank you for having us. Thank you. 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.760 Yeah, I'm very excited to talk to you both. And 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.200 I guess before we get into the initial organizing, just 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:38.520 what was it like finding out that the other shop 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:39.840 was also unionizing? 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.240 Oh my god, it was terrifying. 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:49.680 So, like our number one priority during our Lakewood campaign 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:57.080 was secrecy. We absolutely knew how hostile management was towards 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:02.600 any kind of improvement of workplace conditions. So going from 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:07.080 almost five versus spy level of off sec to figuring 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:11.400 out that Vancouver was also unionizing and was doing a walkout, like, 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:12.000 I think. 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.600 That was when we learned. Oh god, was when the 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:15.640 day that they kind. 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:20.840 Of imploded and we were terrified, Like we did not 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.160 think there would be any way out of that for Lakewood. 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:25.040 Yeah. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.000 Yeah, that's a rough way to find out when yeah, 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.400 the other union is like, oh god, okay, we have 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:34.040 to do we have to do a walkout, we have 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.120 to go on strike because they're firing us. 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.480 Yeah, I mean it was certainly understandable. I wouldn't say 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:45.720 we knew why the walkout was happening. When we found 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:50.160 out that the walkout happened and that a strike was starting, 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:56.359 our campaign kind of came to a halt. Like realizing 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:01.520 there was another campaign happening made us had to reconsider 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:03.680 what we were doing. Like we had our own grievances 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.160 and we were really just in the process of getting 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:10.239 people on board. We had maybe a core group of five, 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.440 but we had thirteen or up to thirteen in the end, 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.000 but we had like ten to twelve electrologists. Because that 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:21.120 number was constantly changing, we had to stop and reassess. 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:22.600 Yeah, that makes sense. 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:26.400 And obviously we wanted solidarity with Vancouver. We wanted to 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.000 do whatever we could to support them, but we also 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:30.559 didn't want to lose our jobs. 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:31.480 Yeah. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.200 One of the first things we decided that Lakewood is 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:35.960 that we weren't going to ask anyone to lose their 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.640 job in order to unionize. We weren't going to put 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.600 anyone in a position where they would then become unstable. 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.080 Almost every single worker at Lakewood like desperately needed this job. 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.840 Yeah. Yeah, without it, we. 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:54.160 Would risk homelessness or other things. So we kind of 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.440 got stuck. I mean, it was a tough situation to 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.000 be in knowing that we would have been on their 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.240 side and with more information and more planning, we would 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.160 have probably joined them, but we weren't there yet. 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:09.640 Yeah. Yeah, and this is I guess harshly. Also, Like 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.760 you know, one of the things is difficult about doing 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.960 campaigns is that sometimes like sometimes campaigns move at the 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.480 speed that the workers are organizing at, and then sometimes 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.680 they move at the speed of like, oh my god, 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.799 the boss is firing everyone. We just have to go now. Yeah, 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:28.919 And that's yeah, that's always one of the issues is 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.880 like as much as you want to be setting the tempost, 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:36.200 sometimes you're responding to like what management is doing, and 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.240 that can get very rough, very quickly. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:45.359 Absolutely, I think Vancouver did great with their circumstances. Like 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.040 you said it, management set the pace and they had 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.720 to respond at like when we were really trying to 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.480 do the opposite. We wanted to put us put ourselves 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:56.400 in a position where we were taking an action and 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.840 management was responding, and in the end we did. We 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.800 we paused when Vancouver went on strike. We tried to 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.359 assess how best we could help them without just also 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.080 imploding Lakewood. Part of what we realized is that management 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.560 had not realized any campaign was happening at Lakewood because 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.359 they were going to use us as no votes in 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:15.880 the election. 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:16.520 Yeah. 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.200 They wanted us to be considered one bargaining unit because 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.160 they thought that we would say no and that union 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:24.120 would lose the election. 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:25.240 Yeah. 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.360 So our spy versus spy shit was successful. 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:29.040 Yeah, we were doing well. 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.640 Management deceived, Yeah, perfectly. 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.919 Yeah, so do you want to rewind the clock a 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.760 bit and talk about sort of how organizing efforts started. 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:44.039 It was not connected to the other campaign at all. 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.240 It wasn't, but I think we were dealing with a 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:51.520 lot of similar issues. Yeah, in our first year, as 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:57.040 we got onboarded and saw how things were versus the 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.200 position that was promised to us and sold to us, Yeah, 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.400 everyone kind of started catching on to things and started 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:08.200 like building a list of grievances. There were concerns about 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:13.400 the lack of training and patient safety. There were concerns 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.000 about the lack of time to do our job, you know, 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.680 working during breaks, working during our lunches. There was really 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:26.040 unclear and inconsistent disciplinary actions being taken left and right. 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.400 Like one person would be told they could do something, 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:34.400 another person would do that and get written up for it. 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:33.760 It felt targeted. 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.000 At some point, Lake would realize that there was no 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.120 position you could be in where you where your job 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:44.440 was safe. You could be management, you could be the 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.520 owner's absolute favorite electrologists, you could be the best at 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:50.719 your job. You could keep your head down and do 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.400 absolutely nothing, and one day you would be disappeared for 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.640 whatever reason if you got one. It was like a 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.160 span of like two or three months where we lost 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:06.960 maybe five employees and everyone heard a different reason if 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:08.480 one was given. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.200 HM, which is a pretty clear sign that something is 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:13.160 going wrong. 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:14.400 Exactly. 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:19.440 Yeah, and I think I was the second employee to 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:21.480 be disappeared at the location. 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:22.520 Jesus Christ. 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.600 Yeah, there were two employees where we were told they resigned, 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.080 And everyone very very much knew that these are employees 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:33.160 that wouldn't have resigned. These were employees that were ready 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.880 to start careers and build their life around real you. 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:40.000 We all believed in real use mission. But Yeah, eventually 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.200 we just realized it didn't matter. Yeah, there was no 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.960 job stability for anyone, and that was a really big 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.120 issue because that's what all of us came to this 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.520 job for. We were hoping for long term careers that 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:55.200 paid us livable wages and also were safe for us 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.560 to be ourselves in. There's not a lot of jobs 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.640 where trans women get to be trans women. Yep, And 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:02.600 like this was a job that almost celebrated it. 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:07.720 And I know, for me personally, I was really excited 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.480 for the opportunity to be able to help the community. 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:12.400 Yeah. 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:17.160 I come from Florida, I'm born and raised unfortunately, where 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.920 transitioning for a long time was kind of a pipe dream, 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.560 Like it was not a realistic goal of mine until 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:26.920 moving to Washington. And now I get to take or 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:29.960 I used to get to take part in people's transition 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:31.160 every day for my job. 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.000 Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. And that's I think like 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:37.120 one of the kind of cruelest parts of all of this, 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.600 And like what management has done is just like ripping 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:41.760 that away from both you and from the community. 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.880 Absolutely, And it didn't have to be that way, No. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.200 You really didn't. Yeah, And I guess speaking of the 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:53.760 cruelty of management, Yeah, Andy, I guess do you want 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:59.400 to talk about when you said getting disappeared? What was 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:00.400 going on with that? 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:07.520 So I had brought a lot of the grievances that 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:12.480 I was seeing and had towards the owners of the 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:18.040 company on On Lea alongside the manager of the clinic 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:22.400 at the time, and any time anything wrong with the 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:30.480 business was brought up, hostilities just grew, and they kept 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:35.200 growing the more and more that we said, Hey, you know, 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:39.400 there's issues with the training, there's issues with the amount 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:40.640 of time that people. 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:41.520 Have to do your jobs. 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:48.880 And it was honestly a really hostile environment created by Anna. 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:57.320 And before I had gotten disappeared, I was in my 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:04.240 educational program for electrolysis. I was in the process of 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:10.440 completing that before my termination, and I had brought up 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:15.559 some of my concerns because as I was learning more 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:21.040 and more about electrolysis, I realized that so many of 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:27.560 the things we had been taught were just wrong. Yeah, 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:33.199 And because Anna and Leah didn't want to address it 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:41.320 and didn't want that information being out there, I was 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:45.640 put in the position where I either had to sign 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:51.400 a non disclosure to forgive my student loan debt, or 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:55.200 I could choose to just be fired and then assume 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:55.600 the debt. 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.000 Jesus, I mean they did. They just literally forced you 0:10:59.000 --> 0:10:59.640 out of the company. 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.319 Correct, it was an involuntary resignation. 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:07.760 Yeah, that is only voluntary and like the strict Hobbesy 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.559 in sense where like Hobbes considers that if someone has 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:12.280 a gun at your head and tells you to do 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.760 something and you do it, you still voluntarily made the decision. 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.319 And I don't know about you, I don't hold to 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.920 the strict Hobsy and interpretation of voluntary. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:22.559 I don't think I agree with that. 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.040 I think that if you were coerced into a decision, 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:32.040 it's not voluntary. I don't know, Like, oh god, obviously. 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.040 I think the other part of this that's just really 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.240 grotesque is what you were talking about in terms of 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:40.800 just the education being wrong, because this is something that's 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.079 really common in trance healthcare, where like there should Yeah, 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.199 there is just a bunch of stuff the medical professionals 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.000 are being taught that was developed from something someone figured 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.000 out kind of in the eighties and has never been 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.080 updated in the course of like the last twenty five 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:58.680 years of the development of science, and then just also 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.199 the development of there being more and more trans people 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:06.720 who have been, you know, just like experiencing treatment. And 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.959 it's frustrating, I think because you really rarely ever get 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.280 a scenario where there are trans people who actually are 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:18.760 in a position sufficient enough in any kind of medical 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:22.280 institution to even like get to talk about it, And 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:26.079 the fact that their response was to just like disappear 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:31.679 you and force you out of the company is really bleak. 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:33.000 Yeah. 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:37.560 And on that note, I would say most of the 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:44.760 employees received about two weeks training before working on patients. 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:45.480 Oh boy. 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:51.360 That and the educational program that I went through was 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:58.080 four months. So if you kind of compare the timelines 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:01.440 there of yeah, how we were trained in the job 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:05.839 versus the education that I got, it just wasn't enough. 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:07.079 Yeah. 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:11.520 Not only was it not enough, but anyone who voiced 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:15.080 that it wasn't enough put their job at risk. I 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.160 mean there's more than one Lakewood worker that went to 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.199 management saying, hey, I don't feel well trained enough, I 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.920 don't feel informed enough, And they were met with well 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.680 more than one situation in which they were like directly 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.840 asked like do you feel comfortable working on patients? Do 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.239 you think you're capable of this job? With the implication 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:38.520 or the direct verbal statement being if you don't, maybe 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.679 you should find somewhere else to work. Yeah, but all 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.160 of us signed up for this job with the agreement, 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.319 like we signed these loan agreements with the idea that 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:50.240 we'd be going to this in depth training. Like the 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.880 owners themselves during my interview process at least talked up 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.160 sat Master's constantly, like this is the place to go 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.240 to learn about how to provide you, like Tralla's is 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:05.320 for transgender clients specifically. And then I worked there for 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.720 sixteen months and never saw any training after my first 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:13.360 few weeks, Like, yeah, I think the entire sixteen months 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.319 there after my first month, my sessions were only observed 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:22.880 three times. Jesus only three times. And I was not 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.600 an either trolysis provider before this. This was my entry 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.680 into it. Their training was the only training I got. Yeah, 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.840 And the only reason my sessions started being shadowed at 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:38.920 all is because providers themselves started asking for auditing sessions. 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.960 There is an instance that I would like to bring up. 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:50.000 I was overseeing the training of new hire and during 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:54.720 this training period I had a patient on my books 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.400 who had requested to never be on my books again, 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.880 which you know, totally fine, totally valid, But the fact 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.000 that they were put on my books, yeah, after requesting 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.760 not to see me again, was an issue. 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.480 It's not totally fine or totally valid. To do that. 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:19.120 That's not fine on management's part. And so as I 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.640 am training this new hire and we're going into this session, 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:27.120 the patient wasn't comfortable with me being there in the 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.200 room to provide training to the new hire. So I 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.160 had to leave the new hire alone with that patient 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:39.040 Jesus because they weren't comfortable with me being there. 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:43.680 Yeah, that is a just absolutely unacceptable way for any 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.600 of this to be running, especially with a delicate healthcare 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.560 thing that can cause inturgud people. Exactly, if we can 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.680 back up for a second, can you explain a little 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.840 bit for people who didn't listen to the first episode 0:15:55.840 --> 0:16:00.240 of people who don't remember about the absolutely why old 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:04.720 I guess nominally student loan like indent your program thing 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.200 that was. That's the key component of this whole of 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:07.960 this whole story. 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.640 So just about every worker until like some of the 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:17.720 most recent workers got a job at real U Electrolysis 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:23.360 with the understanding that we would be hired and trained 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:28.840 and receives pay while being trained by real you, but 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.760 that at some point they would send us to zapp 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:36.960 Masters in Centralia for an electrolysis training program and to 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:41.680 get us licensed via Oregon State Washington doesn't have electrolysis 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.560 licensure requirements. You could buy a machine and start providing. 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:47.720 You shouldn't, but you could. 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:48.680 Yeah. 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.760 So the idea was that they would pay for our 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.320 zap master's training, they would pay for our machine, they 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.280 would pay us while we were learning this job and 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.320 starting with them, and they totally all of out at 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:05.040 around nineteen thousand, five hundred dollars plus interest. So nineteen 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.359 to twenty one thousand is the number the gets thrown around. 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.320 They would pay for that and forgive it if we 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.720 agreed to work for them for four years after they 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.960 license us. So this four year timer doesn't even start 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:24.240 until we're finished with school and get our license in Oregon. Yeah, 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.280 it included a clause where not only do we have 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.560 to work for them for four years, but we can't 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.920 work for other electrolysis clinics. 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:39.040 Which these kinds of employment agreements are literally called trap agreements. 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:39.720 Yeah. 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.240 If that kind of cluesy into anything, Yeah. 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:47.600 Yeah, it's like it's an indentured service degree. That's like 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.600 and that's like, oh God. 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:55.360 Hindsight is twenty twenty Jesus crushed. A lot of us 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.639 had the foresight to know it wasn't a good situation, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:00.760 but we were coming from situation. 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.119 Yeah. I think a way to think about this also 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.280 is just that like, you know, there's two parts of 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.399 this that are predatory. One is the recruitments that is 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.359 designed is you know, based on i mean just lying 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.760 to people about how this is going to go. And 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.800 then there's the secondary part that's the exploitativeness of the 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.439 agreement itself. And I don't know, I think we have 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.679 this very very annoying tendency to look at being an 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.639 inherently exploitive situation to something as you know, something that 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.240 like through anioliberal personal choice you could just avoid being 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.520 in these situations entirely, And that's just like not true. 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.160 No, Unfortunately, if you have a regular job, you are 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:41.000 being exploited. 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.639 Yeah. Yeah, And you know the fact that like going 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:46.600 back to the sort of like hobbsy and consent thing, 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.080 it's like, well, okay, like is anyone actually like you know, 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:54.040 operating freely in a set of conditions where yeah, like 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.280 if you don't take the job, your alternative is that 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.440 you don't have food, and you you know, you can't 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:00.160 pay your rent and you and you don't have a home, 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:01.480 anymore exactly. 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:06.359 I mean when I came to real you, I was homeless. Yeah, 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.080 before being employed with them. 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.280 You are not the only one. I think many of 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:12.320 us were. 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.720 Yeah, And that's something that I think is also really 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.840 bleak about the way that this was structured, which was 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:21.760 like one of the things that we talked about the 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.320 last episode was at Anna Lantry like very specifically said 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.679 that she was targeting trans people because you could just 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:30.520 treat them a little bit nicely and they would do 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.680 anything for you. And yeah, it's like, you know, this 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.720 is a deliberate targeting of a population that has an 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.439 unemployment rate that is what like four and a half 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:44.239 times the general unemployment rate in the US, that is, 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:46.960 at all times and at all places operating in like 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:51.040 great depression levels of unemployment. And that's yeah, you know 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.760 who's like homelessness rates and like rate of having been 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:57.440 homelessness like orders of magnitude higher from the general population. 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.479 And I don't know, it's extreme, only bleak that you know, 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:06.800 the opportunity to both like help your community and also 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:13.199 make a just absolutely seismic like class increase from like 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.800 being homeless and struggling to feed yourself to like having 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:22.000 stable employment is ultimately kind of this like debt peon 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:22.800 ship trap. 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:25.800 Yeah. I mean you put it pretty clearly. 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:31.760 Capitalism sucks like Christ bad economic syst of good. Lord 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:40.280 Ough agreed. So speaking of capitalism, we should probably throw 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.800 to ads, and then when we come back, we could 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.399 talk more about resisting capitalism, which is to say, how 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.399 how the organizing got going and what's been happening since. 0:20:48.520 --> 0:21:01.680 Yeah sounds good, sounds good, and. 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:06.120 We are back. Yeah, so let's get into a little 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.760 bit more of like how the organizing process started and 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:11.320 how it sort of went. 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:14.320 I think Andy might be a good one to start 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.440 with this, because, unbeknownst to everyone, there were three different 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.200 starts through our union efforts. 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:22.520 Andy, before you got got. 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:27.919 Yeah, I was looking into the possibility of trying to 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:31.200 start a union at the shop. I was reaching out 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:36.040 to different union organizations, and I was also looking at 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:39.800 what government agencies that I could be reaching out to 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:42.800 about some of the things that we were experiencing at 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:43.520 our workplace. 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:44.720 Yeah. 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:49.360 So that would have been around November of last year. 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:52.320 Was around November. 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:57.880 And then Andy disappeared that there is a string of firings, 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:03.359 and I would say our efforts started again around January 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:06.679 of this year kind of just started with one of 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:12.040 our workers chatting with their patients. The trans community is 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:19.000 also pretty involved in organizing mutually unions. So like when 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.960 you're shooting the ship with your patient and they hear 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:27.000 like a workplace ripe for organizing, they tell you, wait, 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:27.679 that is. 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:29.879 The that is that is maybe the sweetest thing I've 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:30.920 ever heard, Like. 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:37.680 It was pretty good. This wouldn't have happened. 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:40.600 Trans people, truly, truly amazing. 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:47.399 Oh really, so yeah, we had a patient who was 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:51.119 an IWW member who told us that was, look, you 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:51.760 gotta start. 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.280 You gotta get in contact with the GNB and then 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:58.320 start learning how to organize. So we did. 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:05.000 That's okay, it's not quite salting because he was someone 0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:07.760 who was a patient and not like an employee. But 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:13.200 it's like it's kind of like an accidental sulting. Oh 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:13.680 my god. 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:17.400 None of this would have happened without our patients. Oh, 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:22.720 they've been supportive the entire way. When things in Vancouver 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:26.520 started happening, we all started having patients ask or tell 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:28.879 us that, look, I don't want to put you in 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:34.600 an awkward position, but if y'all started unionizing, that'd be dope. Yeah, 0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:38.399 it was really nice getting a support. It sucked that 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:40.720 we couldn't talk to them about it because, like we said, 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:42.520