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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff.

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Speaker 2: You're a weekly reminder that sometimes we run rewinds. You

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Speaker 2: probably didn't know that, but I'm recording an introduction for

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Speaker 2: both of the old episodes, and this is the introduction

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Speaker 2: for the second one. Because I do episodes mostly in

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Speaker 2: pairs because they come out twice a week. You've probably

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Speaker 2: figured that out. Anyway, Here's an episode that I care

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Speaker 2: a lot about about gay resistance to fascism. Hello, and

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Speaker 2: welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoy, and this week I'm talking with Shreen. How

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Speaker 2: you doing good?

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Speaker 3: Actually, I know I said the first time you told me,

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Speaker 3: I just said I was like basically doing bad. But

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Speaker 3: after the recording the first part. I don't know if

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Speaker 3: people know that record them back to back, but I

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Speaker 3: feel much better than I did earlier. So I feel

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Speaker 3: good after hearing about all these cool fucking people. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Cool. And our producer Sophie is on the line as well. Sophie,

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Speaker 2: how are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm great? Drinking a cream? So does Zva live in

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Speaker 1: my best life?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 2: So speaking of aftertastes and Nazis, And there's this I

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Speaker 2: actually don't know how to do this segway. But you

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Speaker 2: are listening to part two of our two part series

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Speaker 2: on gay resistance to Fascism, and so you're probably a

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Speaker 2: little bit confused if you haven't heard the episode that

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Speaker 2: came out Monday. So you should go back and listen

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Speaker 2: to it if you haven't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you really should. It's a really good episode, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: you will learn about a lot of really cool people.

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Speaker 3: And this is coming from a very big cynic, so

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Speaker 3: this is good.

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Speaker 2: It's like, try to impress the cynic is like an

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Speaker 2: interesting not.

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Speaker 3: Even about impressing. It's like, will I still be miserable

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Speaker 3: by the end of this, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Like it's like, yeah, you know what.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well this one is going to be Oh I

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Speaker 2: don't want to spoil it, Okay. So where we last

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Speaker 2: left off, there was like a motley crew of queers,

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Speaker 2: artists and medical students in Amsterdam who just pulled off

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Speaker 2: a like heist movie level antics to blow up a

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Speaker 2: Nazi records storehouse. And today we're going to bring things

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Speaker 2: back to Germany. So Germany, there's a country called Germany.

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Speaker 2: Weymar Germany is the period from nineteen nineteen after Germany

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Speaker 2: got its fucking ass handed to it in the First

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Speaker 2: World War to nineteen thirty three, when Hitler came to

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Speaker 2: power and did the whole Hitler thing that I presume

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Speaker 2: most people are familiar with on some level. And Weymar

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Speaker 2: Germany had a lot going for it, right. It was

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Speaker 2: a republic, for one thing, which is a step up

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Speaker 2: from dictatorships and such. People could like vote and shit,

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Speaker 2: and there was free speech, there was free assembly, There

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Speaker 2: was no state religion, some of the gay laws weren't

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Speaker 2: being enforced, although they were still there. And the government

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Speaker 2: was based out of a city called Weimar, which is

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Speaker 2: how they got the name Weymar Germany. But Germany was

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Speaker 2: completely fucked economically. World War One left their economy in shambles.

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Speaker 2: Hyperinflation took over. Everyone was hungry and you know, fucked,

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Speaker 2: and then they had the fucking worldwide depres after all

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Speaker 2: of that on top of it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think that's the reason why the Nazis worked,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. They had to like kind

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Speaker 3: of get the desperate, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Like they had to really and like then Hitler quotes like,

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Speaker 3: oh he can save us, kind of thing. I think

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Speaker 3: they had to have the previous shitty part in order

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Speaker 3: to even do that totally part, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Totally because people are so fucked they're like, I'll try anything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, exactly yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then so most of the stuff I'd been exposed

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Speaker 2: to about by Our Germany, which focused on really cool stuff,

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Speaker 2: because by Our Germany it was this very interesting artistic

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Speaker 2: time period, and mostly I'd heard about the cabaret scene,

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Speaker 2: all the sort of decading queer artists who try to

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Speaker 2: live fancy, free lives while they're basically starving, and all

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Speaker 2: of that is like true and interesting and beautiful, but

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Speaker 2: it's only one part of Germany's culture at the time,

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Speaker 2: and actually only one part of it. It's queerness and

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Speaker 2: it's queer culture. You've also got this really messy assortment

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Speaker 2: of different organizations that have different names but get called

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Speaker 2: like the Vondervogel or the German youth movement or the

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Speaker 2: hiking clubs, and these go back decades. They go back

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Speaker 2: to the eighteen nineties, and there's this movement that it

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Speaker 2: kind of looks like boy Scouts if Boy Scouts was

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Speaker 2: like a fuck off huge thing that involved millions of

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Speaker 2: boys and girls, both through various levels of formal and

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Speaker 2: informal organization, with weird paganism, vegetarianism, nudism and queerness running

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Speaker 2: out through the entire thing. So not actually very much

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Speaker 2: like boy scouts.

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Speaker 3: I would like to be that kind of boy scout.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, well then you're going to love our characters today.

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Speaker 2: So millions of German kids formed these hiking clubs and

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Speaker 2: spent their days like camping and getting in touch with nature.

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Speaker 2: It was an anti modernist movement at a lot of

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Speaker 2: parts of it. And whenever people are like, oh, it

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Speaker 2: was this, it's like, it's all kinds of different things

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Speaker 2: all happening at the same time. But it was kind

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Speaker 2: of a lot of it was about leaving civilization behind.

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Speaker 2: A lot of it was German nationalists, although it didn't

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Speaker 2: have a necessarily an anti Semitic character as far as

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Speaker 2: I can tell, at least on any systemic level. Some

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Speaker 2: of it was really middle class and some of it

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Speaker 2: was really working class, and a lot of it was

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Speaker 2: just fucking outright criminal in kind of the best and

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Speaker 2: worst ways. There's a French gay anarchist named Daniel Geeren

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Speaker 2: who wrote about the movement in the nineteen thirties because

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Speaker 2: he would go visit nineteen thirties Germany because it was

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Speaker 2: a fucking awesome place to be a gay anarchist.

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Speaker 3: But he found it.

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Speaker 2: He found this movement increasingly politically polarized between the communists

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Speaker 2: and the fascists. And as the whole worldwide depression is hitting,

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Speaker 2: more and more youth are finding themselves homeless. They choose

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Speaker 2: itinerant lifestyles overstaying still in one place. So the movement

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Speaker 2: keeps growing, and it keeps polarizing and doing all kinds

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Speaker 2: of weird shit. In nineteen thirty three, huge chunks of

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Speaker 2: has come to an abrupt end when Hitler bans all

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Speaker 2: alternative youth organizations that aren't the Hitler Youth. A lot

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Speaker 2: of the more mainstreams of these groups just basically become

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Speaker 2: the Hitler Youth, and in nineteen thirty nine he makes

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Speaker 2: participation in the Hitler Youth compulsory. But the youth movement

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Speaker 2: went a lot lot of different directions. Not all of

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Speaker 2: it went into Hitler Youth, as we'll get into, but

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Speaker 2: some of it did. And so we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about gay Nazis now. These are not the cool people

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Speaker 2: who did cool stuff.

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Speaker 3: Well, got to balance it out, I suppose, But also, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm fascinated where this will go.

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Speaker 2: My own experience with boy Scouts. I was a boy

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Speaker 2: Scout and my best friend and who is a boy Scout,

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Speaker 2: came out as trans like years before I did. And

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Speaker 2: so I love that, you know, me and my best friend,

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Speaker 2: because people are like, oh, they're letting girls into boy

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Speaker 2: Scouts now, and like me and a lot of other

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Speaker 2: trans women are like, oh no, they always did. That's

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Speaker 2: a that's but so gay Nazis, that's the thing. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So before Hitler took over completely and the National Socialists

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Speaker 2: were just like one of the parties in Germany. They

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Speaker 2: were actually the only political party in Wymar, Germany with

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Speaker 2: unknown high ranking gay member. Ernst Rohm was the leader

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Speaker 2: of Hitler's essay, which are usually called the brown Shirts,

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Speaker 2: which are basically the parties like street thugs who operate

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Speaker 2: outside the law, like you know when Trump told his

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Speaker 2: brown Shirts proud Boys to stand by and stand back,

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Speaker 2: a similar sort of organization. And aernstram was really into

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Speaker 2: this hyper masculinity thing. He's so anti you know, you're

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Speaker 2: so anti feminine that you don't fuck women, right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and he's really into authority and discipline and obedience. Those

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Speaker 2: are good manly things, unlike democracy, socialism, anarchism, fucking girls,

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Speaker 2: all that weird soft yeah. And this is not to

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Speaker 2: say that the Nazis were pro gay. They were just

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Speaker 2: kind of pro hypocrisy. I think even before they came

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Speaker 2: to the power, they were the most adamantly anti gay

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Speaker 2: party in politics. But even the Social Democrats, who were

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Speaker 2: the ones who weren't enforcing paragraph on seventy five and

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Speaker 2: were part of trying to fight to get paragraph on

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Speaker 2: seventy five appealed when they used they used homophobic language

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Speaker 2: to try and talk shit on the Nazis. Basically they

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Speaker 2: were like, oh, Rom's gay and so, and they like

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Speaker 2: published his private letters in order to basically be like,

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Speaker 2: if you support the Nazis, you support pedophilia and gayness,

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Speaker 2: and the Nazis will corrupt our children, and so no

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Speaker 2: one's fucking good at this point, no political party is

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Speaker 2: looking good. The Nazis are clearly looking the worst. But

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Speaker 2: it's just kind of interesting to me. And this causes

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Speaker 2: us split in the gay rights scene. Right, some groups

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Speaker 2: like the Scientific Humanitarian Committee, which is as magnus Hirschfeld,

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Speaker 2: the guy I was talking about a lot. Last episode,

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Speaker 2: he warns the gay Nazis. He's like, you know, the

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Speaker 2: fucking Nazis are going to come after you too, right.

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Speaker 2: But then the other big organization at the time, this

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Speaker 2: is really not something to be proud of. They're like,

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Speaker 2: what nah, They're not coming after all the gay people,

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Speaker 2: just those Jewish gay people buckers. Yeah, but but spoiler alert,

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Speaker 2: the Nazis are coming after all the Cays. On June thirtieth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirty four, on what gets called the Night of

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Speaker 2: Long Knives, Hitler has Rom and a whole bunch of

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Speaker 2: the other Brown Shirt leaders just murdered and in public.

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Speaker 2: Hitler was like, oh, I definitely did this because Rom

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Speaker 2: was going to betray me. But it was really transparently.

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Speaker 2: Hitler was tired of being made fun of for putting

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Speaker 2: up with gay people in the ranks. His pal Mussolini

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Speaker 2: like to make fun of him, and they were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you're harboring gays, you know whatever, you.

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Speaker 1: Know his pal Mussolini, Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 3: That's like the very first no homo with consequences or something.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, totally. And then what's kind of

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Speaker 2: interesting is that Hitler probably didn't personally have a problem

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Speaker 2: with Rome's homosexuality. He just he was a fucking people

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Speaker 2: pleaser and he wanted people to like him, which has

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Speaker 2: definitely never happened. Again, there's never been a populist right

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Speaker 2: wing leader any time in history, certainly not in the

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Speaker 2: past ten years in the United States who has clearly

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Speaker 2: not had any problem personally with gay people.

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Speaker 3: And no, yeah, yeah, but greatest country in the world.

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Speaker 2: Wow, we're the ones who beat these Nazis.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so we're the heroes of this story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then fire the conductor for being gay. So

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Speaker 2: in private, Hitler would either defend or attack Ro's homosexuality

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Speaker 2: depending on the audience, right, Like, sometimes he was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that was in his misspent youth and he's learned better now.

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Speaker 2: And other times he's like, ah, us, worldly men, we

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Speaker 2: understand that such thing has happened, and are fine. That's

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Speaker 2: my Hitler accent. I don't do accents, you should.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I also don't do accents, but I think I

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Speaker 3: when I tried, I've learned my lesson.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm reasonably certain that if someone put a

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Speaker 2: gun to my head and said that I had to

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Speaker 2: speak like a British person for two minutes or I

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Speaker 2: would die. I would die because I genuinely believe that

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Speaker 2: with a gun to my head, I would not be

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Speaker 2: able to talk with a British accent.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, no no. I did a live reading

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Speaker 3: of Twilight once with Bechdel Class another amazing podcast. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I had to voice one of the characters who

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Speaker 3: was French for and like in the thing, he has

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Speaker 3: an accent, and so I tried before we recorded, I

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Speaker 3: was like, can I do this? And I tried to

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Speaker 3: have a French accent and I sounded like Jamaican every time.

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Speaker 3: It was so I was that was like cemented, like

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Speaker 3: Sharin accents are not for you. This is not so yeah,

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Speaker 3: but no accents are hard. So I understand, and I

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Speaker 3: don't want to do that to the audience.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So another one of the people that another one

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Speaker 2: of the gay brown Shirts that Hitler has killed, was

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Speaker 2: a guy named Edmund Hines who was actually Hitler's cell

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Speaker 2: mate after the failed couve nineteen twenty three the Beer

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Speaker 2: Hall putsch and he was one of the fucking original Nazis.

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Speaker 2: Like literally, he was number seventy eight in the enlisting

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Speaker 2: in the National Socialists, and he was gay as hell,

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Speaker 2: and when they came for him during the Night of

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Speaker 2: Long Knives, he was in bed with a lover.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 2: By nineteen forty one, Hitler starts suggesting the death penalty

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Speaker 2: for gay kids in the Hitler Youth and then they

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Speaker 2: pass the death penalty for GAYSS members. But what they

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Speaker 2: do instead, I mean a lot of them they kill, right,

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Speaker 2: some of those sentences get commuted to go be cannon

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Speaker 2: fodder in the war against Russia, which I think they

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Speaker 2: actually did to a lot of Yeah, a lot of

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Speaker 2: people end up dying that way, get taken out of

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Speaker 2: prison and sent to go die on the Eastern Front,

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Speaker 2: or they're sent to serve. And it's like all criminal

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Speaker 2: dearly Vonger brigade of the SS, which is basically a

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Speaker 2: brigade within the SS, that's like all of the worst

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Speaker 2: people and the criminals. And I put worst people in quotes,

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Speaker 2: but like you know where they like go give criminals

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Speaker 2: a chance to go die. I bring all this stuff up. Okay,

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Speaker 2: do you know that meme? The I never thought leopards

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Speaker 2: would eat my face, said the person who voted for

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Speaker 2: the leopards eating people's faces party.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't know, this is what I just said.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, okay, no, no, no, I mean it's

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Speaker 2: just basically this. It's like someone's like, but I never

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Speaker 2: thought the leopards would eat my face, right, the person

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Speaker 2: who voted for the leopards eating people's faces party. And

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Speaker 2: that's how I feel about the gay Nazis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the reasons to bring this up in this like

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Speaker 2: otherwise conversation about good gay people is that I feel like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: when we talk about the bad people in history who

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Speaker 2: are gay, we're usually playing into this trope that like

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Speaker 2: all of them were closeted, right, h But these gays

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Speaker 2: Nazis weren't. They were not closeted. They were open about

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Speaker 2: their interests. It was part of their like storied tradition

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Speaker 2: of right wing homosexuality that ran concurrently with left wing

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Speaker 2: in a political homosexuality.

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Speaker 3: And is it just like internalized homophobia or like hatred

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Speaker 3: that's I tried to wrap my head around stuff like that,

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Speaker 3: like what they tell themselves to legitimize their existence or

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Speaker 3: like what they're doing. So it's like, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know, you're just fucking racists, you know, and they're like,

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Speaker 2: I like the racist Party, and then they're like, but

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Speaker 2: the racist Party hates you for being gay, and you're like, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't care. I'm so racist that that's you know.

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Speaker 2: It's like we see that a lot.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And like the modern far right in the United States,

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Speaker 2: there are like, you know, gay members of it, and

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Speaker 2: you're just like, what are you fucking doing? They hate

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Speaker 2: you and we'll laugh at you and kill you at

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Speaker 2: the first opportunity, and you're like, no, they like me,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: You know, I just thought of it's probably power that

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Speaker 3: changes it, you know what I mean, Like, if you

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Speaker 3: feel like you're a little bit not untouchable, but like protected,

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Speaker 3: you feel more able to be a hypocrite.

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Speaker 2: I feel like, right, yeah, no, that that actually makes sense.

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Speaker 2: And honestly, like almost everything comes down to power at

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Speaker 2: the end.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, ready, okay.

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Speaker 2: And so the other reason to bring all this up

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Speaker 2: is that I think that we forget that a lot

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Speaker 2: of this shit has like really high stakes, the way

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Speaker 2: that we talk about sex and sexuality and gender, and

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Speaker 2: I would argue that we should be on the lookout

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Speaker 2: for when some segment of oh I don't know feminism

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Speaker 2: or gay politics starts making common cause with the right wing,

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Speaker 2: which obviously would never happen. Now, No feminists would just

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Speaker 2: start making common cause with the right wing at all.

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Speaker 3: No, no, oh, no white feminism here, yeah, exactly. Oh god,

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Speaker 3: I just thought I was I wanted to make like

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Speaker 3: a really subtle Harry Potter reference, but I went fast enough,

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Speaker 3: and so I just went with that the most. But

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Speaker 3: you should know a listener that I was trying to

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Speaker 3: talk about Jake k.

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Speaker 5: Rowling anyway, me too, That's what I was thinking of too. Yeah. Okay,

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Speaker 5: so so you've got the gay Nazis. They don't last

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Speaker 5: very long, fuck them whatever. But now I want to

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Speaker 5: talk about gay pirates.

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah, let's do this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to talk about the Edelwise pirates, who

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Speaker 2: are so much fucking cooler, and they're on the opposite

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Speaker 2: side of all this. So all the youth from the

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Speaker 2: what I was saying, when they're all itinerant doing all

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Speaker 2: this crazy shit. They're running around in these like it

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Speaker 2: gets a million names buns or bands or clubs or

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Speaker 2: clicks or whatever, and they're coming out of the vonder

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Speaker 2: Vogel and all these related movements and the whitewashed version

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Speaker 2: of history that I'd run across primarily before doing the

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Speaker 2: research honestly has them like wandering around the pristine German countryside,

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Speaker 2: like singing camp songs and thinking about like marrying their

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Speaker 2: heterosexual sweethearts monogamously and popping out pure Ariyan babies and

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Speaker 2: all that shit. Right, But like this could not be

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Speaker 2: further from the truth, this growing culture of vagabondism and

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Speaker 2: has a desire for change because they're all fucking broken, hungry,

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Speaker 2: and mainstream societies completely failed them, and more and more

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Speaker 2: of them were living in camps and again totally unfamiliar

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Speaker 2: to people today, as you know, whatever. A lot of

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Speaker 2: the clubs were just gangs. They were the wild gangs,

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Speaker 2: and they were in a war against civilization and everything boring.

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Speaker 2: Every winter they would like disband in every Easter, they

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Speaker 2: would celebrate their click or their gang's rebirth. Their camp

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Speaker 2: songs were parodies of the Hitler youth songs. They told

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Speaker 2: dirty jokes, They got into fistfights with the Hitler youth. Basically,

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Speaker 2: with all the men off to war, the Hitler youth

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Speaker 2: were acting like the police, and a lot of German

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Speaker 2: cities and so they and they lived criminal lives and

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Speaker 2: they fucked and oh my god, did they fuck. And

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Speaker 2: it was anything but straight, anything but monogamous. Like it's

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Speaker 2: it's like queer enough to like maybe even get me

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Speaker 2: a little bit like, oh my, maybe that's not the

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Speaker 2: right way to go about these.

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Speaker 3: Things, you know.

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Speaker 2: So these are not the assimilationist gays. These are street fighting,

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Speaker 2: forest fucking, sex working, Nazi robbing, criminal queers.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It's like the anarchy of gay Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And and they're called the they have a lot of

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Speaker 2: different names, but the one I'm going to use now

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Speaker 2: is the wild Fry, which means the wild free, which

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Speaker 2: was one of their mottos. And they would have like

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Speaker 2: things emblazoned while I'll get to that, and they live

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Speaker 2: up to the name. History mostly remembers like a subsect

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Speaker 2: of them called the Edelwy's Pirates. And and I've got flies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it's a flower. Oh interesting, Okay, I think I know, right. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So so I've got information kind of about two generations

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Speaker 2: of wild Fry, and one chunk comes from about nineteen

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Speaker 2: thirty and one chunk comes from the early forties. And

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Speaker 2: so I'm kind of doing my best to give an

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Speaker 2: honest like the way that these two connect, but there

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Speaker 2: isn't a lot of information about that because all of

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Speaker 2: the shit is so hetero washed. But so it's an

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Speaker 2: important I'm going to do an imperfect job, but I'm

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Speaker 2: going to do the best I can and quote original

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Speaker 2: sources and all that shit. And because people when they

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Speaker 2: mentioned Edelway's Pirates, they present the sort of like generic

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Speaker 2: working class youth subculture who ruled and were brave as

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Speaker 2: fuck and they like fought Nazis. There's a movie about

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Speaker 2: them called, I think it's called Edewais Pirates.

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Speaker 3: But again it gets taken out, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Totally, and it doesn't talk about their origins and it

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Speaker 2: definitely doesn't talk about gay fucking. And so Daniel Gearen,

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Speaker 2: who's the French anarchist who wants to go hang out

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Speaker 2: gay folks in Germany, so does. He describes a run

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Speaker 2: in with them in his book called the Brown Plague,

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Speaker 2: which is a doesn't translate well now, but means that

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Speaker 2: it's critical of the rising tide of fashion them. Okay,

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Speaker 2: one Sunday on the outskirts of Berlin, we met, by

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Speaker 2: chance a strange troop on the road. Needless to say,

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Speaker 2: Neither of their short pants, their bere calves, which disappeared

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Speaker 2: under their long wolf vests, the bulky and sundry loads

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Speaker 2: swaying on their backs, nor their enormous hiking boots distinguished

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Speaker 2: them from ordinary vagabonds. But they were very much tuffs.

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Speaker 2: They had the depraved and troubled faces of hoodlums, and

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Speaker 2: the most bizarre coverings on their heads. Black or gray

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Speaker 2: chaplain esque bowlers, old women's hats with the brims turned

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Speaker 2: up in amazon fashion, adorned with ostrich plumes and metals.

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Speaker 2: Proletarian navigator caps decorated with enormous edelwise above the visor. Handkerchiefs.

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Speaker 2: Are scarves and streaming colors tied any which way around

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Speaker 2: the neck. Bare chests bursting out of open skin, vests

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Speaker 2: with broad stripes, arms scored with fantastic or lewde tattoos,

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Speaker 2: ears hung with pendants or enormous rings. Leather shorts surmounted

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Speaker 2: by immense triangular belts, also of leather, yeah both daubed

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Speaker 2: with all the colors of the rainbow, esoteric numbers, human profiles,

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Speaker 2: and inscriptions such as wild fry or rudber bandits around

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Speaker 2: their wrists. They wore enormous leather bracelets. In short, they

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Speaker 2: were a bizarre mixture of virility and feminasy.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's a sentence. That is amazing, I know.

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Speaker 2: And you too can buy all of their costumes from

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Speaker 2: our sponsor, the Pirates Store, which is a nonprofit again

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00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 2: because we're going full pure wholesome with the ads here. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a nonprofit store.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, what you said in blazon. The first

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Speaker 3: thing I was like, they have merch, you know, like

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Speaker 3: you know this is that's a good way to spread

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Speaker 3: the word.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, and we too. I actually don't think we

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Speaker 2: have merch at the time of this recording, but we

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Speaker 2: do have advertisers, and some of them are hopefully the

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Speaker 2: Pirate Store.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we're manifesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, here's some ads.

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Speaker 3: And we're back.

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Speaker 2: So the Wild Fry they're self organized, right, They don't

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Speaker 2: have this like overarching structure, but they do sometimes form

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Speaker 2: into these larger coalitions, sometimes not. There's thousands of these

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Speaker 2: bands and they all have fucking weird, fantastic names. Some

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Speaker 2: of them are Black Love, Red Oath, Fear Not Death,

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Speaker 2: Bloody Bones, Dirty Guys, Forest and Field Sleepers, Tortoises, Brandy Frush,

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Speaker 2: Black Flag, Forest pirates or the Northern Lights.

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Speaker 3: Wow. I love that. It's like the Legends of the

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Speaker 3: Hidden Temple, like the team names.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, I'll get to why. It sounds like

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Speaker 2: fantasy at a second. That's one of the things I

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Speaker 2: love about it. Okay. They also they all had their

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Speaker 2: own distinct styles of dress, which and they basically the

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00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 2: basic idea was take some idea from fantasy literature and

432
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 2: just fucking run with it. Just basically like, try to

433
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 2: live like you're in a fantasy novel.

434
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 3: Wow. They're like, what's the what's it called? Uh, what's

435
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 3: the thing? When you're role playing? It's like LARPing thing, LARPing, LARPing.

436
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 3: It's like LARPing. It's like LARPing, yeah, but very creative.

437
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:15,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

438
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 2: And so they and unlike a lot of the rest

439
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 2: of the Vandervogel movement, which was fairly middle class, almost

440
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,679
Speaker 2: all of these are working class kids, and basically they're like, well,

441
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 2: a fantasy life that sounds better than starving, right, And

442
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 2: so some of them would dress up as like American frontiersmen,

443
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 2: others would dress up like pirates. Some were in stereotypical

444
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 2: German garb and like leader hosen and shit. Others were

445
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 2: like crusader knights, some were caricatures of indigenous Americans. All

446
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 2: of them wore edelwise flowers, the single symbol that like

447
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,120
Speaker 2: united all of them and gave them the eventual name

448
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 2: the Edewis Pirates, and they were into tattoos, including on

449
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 2: their genitals. Girls and boys both wore earrings and when

450
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 2: the various gang this is one of my favorite details

451
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 2: I ran Chris when the various gangs would meet up together.

452
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 2: Instead of all wearing they're like different colors from their

453
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 2: different clicks, they all wore like top hats and tailcoats

454
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: and like the finest, like fancy clothes that I'm sure

455
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 2: they stole.

456
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 3: Wait, I want to look up what an eda wise

457
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 3: flower looks like. I want, I want to visualize their merch.

458
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's really it's like a starfish.

459
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, huh yeah, they're like for anyone's listening, they're

460
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 2: they're pretty white flowers with like yellow I don't know

461
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: anything about biology botany.

462
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 3: I've definitely never seen one before. It's very unique looking,

463
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 3: but okay.

464
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 2: Cool, I have a visual Okay, the most influential fantasy

465
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 2: author for them, which is kind of funny is this

466
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 2: guy named Karl May, who is this nineteenth century adventure

467
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 2: novel author who's yeah, so he knows where I'm going

468
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 2: with this.

469
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 3: Oh no, oh, no ah.

470
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is Hitler's favorite author.

471
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: Favorite author con man, Karl May. Yeah, yeah, I did.

472
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 3: Not know that.

473
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: There's a whole behind the Bastard's episode about about Hitler

474
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: and about how he loves uh Carl May.

475
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 3: Wow, Cal, I wonder how Carl felt.

476
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is like I mean, you know, Robert describes

477
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 4: Karl May as the JK.

478
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: Rowling of the day.

479
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 2: Oh.

480
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 3: Interesting, That's all I need to know. That's all I

481
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 3: need to know.

482
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 2: But I want to know because I think of like,

483
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: I'm in a metal band that takes a lot of

484
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 2: inspiration from Tolkien, and so are a lot of Nazi

485
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,959
Speaker 2: metal bands, right, and so I think of it like that,

486
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 2: you know, But I haven't read any Karl May. But anyway, May,

487
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 2: so these Carl May, Larper's who like rob people in

488
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 2: these sex work.

489
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 3: Hey.

490
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: A few years ago a modern queer sex worker focused

491
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,719
Speaker 2: radical publishing project called Underbelly translated some of their songs

492
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 2: from German. And so I'm not going to sing it

493
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 2: unfortun I'm sorry everyone, ah darn, but my my favorite

494
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 2: is just making fun of the Hitler youth for being

495
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: too masculine and normy. And it's called short hair, big ears.

496
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 2: Such short hair, such big ears. That means the Hitler

497
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: youth must be here, grow long hair, tango nights. There's

498
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: no Hitler youth in sight. Oh ho oh ho. And

499
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 2: one hears the words on every street there's no Hitler

500
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 2: youth I'd like to meet? O ho o ho.

501
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 3: Ain't there fucking poets? Come on? That's amazing, amazing.

502
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 2: And most of we're like fourteen to eighteen. I'll get

503
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 2: into that more, but.

504
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 3: That's the age where you kind of feel like invincible, right,

505
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 3: Like that's the damn I would have been all over that.

506
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. They made their living as delivery drivers in various

507
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 2: unskilled positions, petty crime, non petty crime, sex work, especially

508
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 2: at various gay bars throughout the city. Honestly, one of

509
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: the reasons I love them so much as they just

510
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: sound like my friends. That's just like a description of

511
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 2: what my friends do, and especially when we were younger,

512
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: and then they would pull all their money and then

513
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 2: use it to pay off all their criminal fines that

514
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 2: they incur or to support their arrested friends, and they

515
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: go to juvenile attention and jail and shit constantly, and

516
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: they break out of juvenile detention constantly. Like the study

517
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: I read of fifty wild fry who had been held

518
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,959
Speaker 2: in detention, almost all of them had broken out at

519
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 2: least once, and six of them had broken out of

520
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 2: detention centers more than twenty times. Individuals only.

521
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 3: That is incredible. Well, yeah, I don't, I know.

522
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: And the more they face repression, the more they just

523
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 2: resent mainstream society. This is even before the rise of

524
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 2: the Nazis. A lot of this stuff. They just resent

525
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,239
Speaker 2: mainstream society, and they retreat further and further into their

526
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: fantasy worlds. In the city Colm, where the movement is strongest,

527
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: they coordinated all their gangs, which they called guilds into.

528
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 3: Of course, they're called guilds, yeah, of course.

529
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: Right, yeah. They coordinate them into rings, which are coalitions

530
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 2: of each guilt of guilds by district.

531
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 3: And then each.

532
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 2: Guild had had a leader called a gang bowl, and

533
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: the bowls of each guild would together elect the ring bull.

534
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: And to be a bull, you had to prove that

535
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: you were strong brave, good at crime, and down to

536
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: fuck down to.

537
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 3: Fuck like good a cribing down to fuck.

538
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: Yes, all kinds of weird ways, and at least one gang,

539
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: the Eagles of the Mountains. Everyone in it was a

540
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 2: bowl because they were like no leaders, I guess, and

541
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 2: each bowl had a queen, which I think might have

542
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: been of either sex, but I'm not entirely sure. All

543
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 2: male gangs had a beloved who is expected to be

544
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 2: sexually available to everyone in the gang. Since some gangs

545
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: didn't let girls in, girls formed their own all girl gangs.

546
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 2: And then some boys wanted to join the all girl gangs,

547
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 2: and so the girls let them in. And I appreciate

548
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 2: that because that would have been me. I would have

549
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: been the boy being like, can I join the girl gang? Though?

550
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean girls are nicer than yeah, yeah, than men.

551
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 3: But I also was thinking, like just guilds and all

552
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: these little factions and stuff. This is like irl world

553
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 3: of warcraft, you know what I mean, This is just

554
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: like factions and battle and like whatever, like wow, yeah,

555
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 3: that's art is life and life.

556
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 2: Are I suspect these kids weren't bored very often, you know.

557
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 2: And Okay, so each new member when they would join

558
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: was initiated through bizarre and ceremonial baptisms, which were elaborate

559
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: rituals of violence and sex. They would start off with

560
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 2: fist fights and knife fights and then turn into public sexuality,

561
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 2: like fucking everyone in the gang, or masturbating in front

562
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: of everyone, or getting off during sex fast enough, like

563
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: literally someone's standing there with a stop watch and you're like, wow,

564
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: get off fast enough.

565
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 3: So it's like hazing, but.

566
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: For badass yeah, yeah, totally, it's like way more like

567
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: the hat.

568
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: You're cool enough to be cool.

569
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's hard for me to imagine the frat

570
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: where the hazing iss. Now you've got to fuck all

571
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: of us, but you know whatever, also a mixed gender

572
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: frat m hm. And they would all descend into drunken

573
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: orgies every time someone knew was baptized, of course, And

574
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: there's actually there's I should have saved them in a

575
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: file to make them easily available, but there's actually photos

576
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: of some of these. Some of the like weird like

577
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 2: and it's like people dressed like pirates with knives and

578
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 2: all kinds of weird shit. And they would They lived

579
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: in the forests and in squats in the cities. They

580
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: would like each each crew would have it. Each each

581
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 2: guild would have its own squat basically addicts or cellars

582
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: or un used storage rooms, and they would put a

583
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: single bed in the middle and they called it the

584
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: fucking sofa, and that was like the only sleeping space.

585
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure they slept on floor and they

586
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: would just like this.

587
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 3: I would not if I wasn't on this podcast, I

588
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 3: wouldn't think this was true.

589
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: No, I know and like and so so I'll say

590
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: that my main source of this is Daniel Gern's account

591
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 2: of talking to of the more like crime sex stuff

592
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: is talking to a sociologist a social worker sorry at

593
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: the time, who did a study on these people, and

594
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: that study is replicated in a book, The Brown Plague.

595
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: But yeah, because a lot of the later stuff that

596
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 2: we hear about edawisepirates just doesn't talk about their drunken

597
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: orgies at all, but.

598
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 3: Stuff gets erased all the time, right, like as we've

599
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 3: learned from this podcast and just life.

600
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally, okay. So they would like, like one

601
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: account I was reading, they like they would steal and

602
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: sell cars and then they would like in their stolen

603
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: car they would like drive around and like I don't

604
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: remember exactly, was like the guy who steals the car.

605
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: He's like known, is like a car guy that's like

606
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: his name or whatever, you know. And then they like

607
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 2: go around and rip off payphones. I didn't even know

608
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: they had payphones back then, but they would like go

609
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: and like rip off payphones and then try and get

610
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: all the money out and that they couldn't throw them

611
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: in the river or whatever. And they would fence all

612
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 2: their stolen goods through bartenders in exchange for alcohol. And

613
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: this gets and this leads a lot of them, a

614
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: lot of them end up like in debt to these bartenders.

615
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: And then like when they age out of the wild fry,

616
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: they just enter like a more mainstream life of crime

617
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: for better or worse.

618
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't even consider that they would age out. Actually,

619
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 3: now that you say that out loud, I know. It's like,

620
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 3: you can't stay a wild fry if you're not a

621
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 3: small fry. You have to be by yourself committing crime

622
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 3: all of a sudden. I don't know. Yeah, that's not fair.

623
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: I know, I know. And it's like because one of

624
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: the things that this reminds me so much of when

625
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 2: I was like a teenage squatter, but I did most

626
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: of that. One was like nineteen and twenty, and so

627
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit like, oh, I would have been

628
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 2: too old to be you know.

629
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's fucked up, that's not fair. Yeah, it's

630
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 3: like very Peter Panny Lost Boys about them, you know what.

631
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: I mean, totally Yeah, it is just Peter Pan's army. Yeah, yeah, Okay.

632
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: So the Nazis come to power and they refuse to disband,

633
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: and in a lot of cities they're powerful enough that

634
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 2: they completely just challenge the hegemony of the Hitler youth,

635
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: and in some cities they outnumber the Hitler youth. And

636
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: one of the slogans that they had at the time

637
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: was eternal war against the Hitler Youth. Yes, yes, And

638
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 2: so they did resistance in a lot of ways, right

639
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: like just by existing they and continuing to like hiking

640
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: camp and wander their resisting Nazi era travel restrictions. But

641
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: they they weren't content with only doing that, and so

642
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: it wasn't long before they go from like street fights

643
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: with the Nazi the Hitler youth to distributing propaganda, like

644
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: when the Allies would drop leaflets on the city. The

645
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: wild fry would run around and like stick the leaflets

646
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: through people's doors and shit. They help people desert from

647
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 2: the Nazi army. They would rob Nazi warehouses and you know,

648
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 2: eventually started like killing Nazis who needed a good killing. Actually,

649
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 2: what you're talking about, like aging out. I think that

650
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: I think that the war like fucks up. The best

651
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 2: I can tell, the war like fucks up there, you know,

652
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: sort of like their specific organizational structure, it becomes a

653
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 2: lot looser. And so some of the people that you

654
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: know who get hanged and stuff for this activity are

655
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: like formal at a wise pirates and shit like that, right,

656
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: And so they're still hanging out with like sixteen year

657
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: olds doing all these crimes together, and a lot of

658
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: them get caught and get sent to concentration camps. On

659
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 2: November tenth, nineteen forty four, thirteen of them or thirteen people,

660
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: six of them who are teenagers and some of them

661
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: are formal otawise pirates get executed without trial and coal

662
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: and I believe for theft, murder and planning to blow

663
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: up at Gestapo headquarters. This is the like most known

664
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: thing that they that they were doing.

665
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 3: I forgive me if you've mentioned this. Yeah, like demographically,

666
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 3: what are most of them? Are they like mixed like

667
00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 3: ethnicity wise?

668
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,719
Speaker 2: Oh okay, they do so they are both Aryan and Jewish, okay,

669
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: or at least they specifically refuse to disallow Jews. I

670
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 2: could not tell you what percent of the movement was Jewish. Probably,

671
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: I don't know. I know that historically they allowed in uh.

672
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: And that was like a thing that distinguished them from

673
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: a lot of it is that they were like what

674
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: fuck all.

675
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 3: That It was like kind of started I would assume

676
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 3: by like Aryan people.

677
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: But that were good probably, But I couldn't tell you.

678
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you about Jewish participation in the beginning.

679
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 3: I was just trying to imagine them forever. Reason, when

680
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 3: I imagine something badass and doing stuff, they're not white,

681
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 3: so I have to rearrange.

682
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, totally. Yeah, well, considering like the overwhelming majority

683
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 2: of Germans at this point are not like really doing

684
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: their best, you know. Yeah, so like I.

685
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 3: See that my prejudice now, I'm just gonna.

686
00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: I think that's fair. Yeah yeah, and so so plenty

687
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: of histories. So they run into this problem where they're

688
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: not seen as political, which in a sense, it's true right,

689
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: because they were not friends with polite society, any polite society.

690
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 2: There were criminals under the Weimar Republic, there were criminals

691
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 2: under the Nazis, and they continued to be criminals when

692
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: the Allies liberated the country. The wild fry and Soviet

693
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: controlled areas were treated really harshly, and many of them

694
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 2: were sentenced to twenty five years in prison. And because

695
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 2: they're working class criminals, they were never acknowledged their anti

696
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: fascist work until twenty eleven when and the families of

697
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 2: the Edewis pirates who were killed never received like reparations

698
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: from the German state, unlike other partisans. And the last

699
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: known surviving Edelwise pirate was a woman named Gertrude Koch Coach.

700
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 2: I don't know who died in twenty sixteen at the

701
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: age of ninety two.

702
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 3: Well it's a long life.

703
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know who else survives? The people who drank

704
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: tap water and eat potatoes. The sponsors of this show

705
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 2: you will live forever. And this is especially funny because

706
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: now I've been learning about the more about potatoes because

707
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 2: I listened to buying the bastards, which I feel terrible to.

708
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 3: Admit on this show not how could you?

709
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: I know? And I'm learning cool people.

710
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: Only what a hack podcast?

711
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 3: I wonder who produces that show?

712
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, loser.

713
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: But anyway, here's some ads for tap water potatoes and

714
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 2: whatever else gets mixed in there. And we are back

715
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 2: and we are talking about pirates.

716
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 3: Yes, when you first started with the Pirates, I don't

717
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 3: I've never heard of the Edays Pirates, but I was

718
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 3: curious what definition of pirate you were going to use,

719
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 3: like the actual like people that were pirates on you

720
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 3: know what I mean, because yeah, yeah, exactly or like

721
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 3: just but it's just really funny that there's like dressed

722
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: like pirates. Yeah, they do pyrany thing. Yeah, it's all

723
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 3: like they're I don't know, it's just kind of funny

724
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 3: to see it all come together totally imagination.

725
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean they lived really similar lives to

726
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: like Golden Age pirates, but they like were doing it

727
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 2: yeah in costume, you know, yeah, fucking rules honestly, Like.

728
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 3: It's it's it's yeah, it's like especially at the time,

729
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 3: it's like if the world is going to shit, just

730
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 3: you live once, you know, like that's the Yeah, I

731
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 3: don't know, it's it's I like the uninhibited nature of

732
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 3: their life.

733
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: Yeah I do too, jesus. Yeah. And then one of

734
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: the things I like about them is like it doesn't

735
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 2: seem like it was like a gay culture as in,

736
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: like some of them are gay, and some of them

737
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: are heterosexual, and some of them are by it was

738
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: just fucking weird. Like I don't think any of them

739
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 2: knew their sexuality. Some of them probably cared and some

740
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: of them probably didn't.

741
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 3: And like, yeah, they definitely weirdos unite, right, sorry, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no,

742
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 3: I mean it's like weirdos all unite. Right. So it's

743
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 3: like when you're in high school, the outcast are altogether,

744
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 3: whether they're like people of color or gay or whatever.

745
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 3: Like that's what happened to in my experience anyway. Yeah,

746
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 3: we're like when you're yeah, if you're what's the word marginalized,

747
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 3: marginalized exactly, if you're marginalized and you're fucking weird, you

748
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 3: will unite because you want a weird community and weird, honestly,

749
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 3: I think is a great thing. You should be weird

750
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 3: being a normy boring you know, so stay weird.

751
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 2: Hell yeah totally. And then okay, so these aren't the

752
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: only queers fighting the Nazis within Germany. Far from it.

753
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you about some more of them.

754
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: There's a gad Beck who is a gay, part Jewish

755
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: Berliner who in nineteen forty two he borrows a Hitler

756
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: youth uniform and he marches into the pre deportation camp

757
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: where his lover Manfred is being detained. So he shows

758
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: up in his uniform and he goes to the commanding

759
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: officer and he's like, oh, I need to borrow this

760
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: guy from on a construction project. And so the request

761
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: is granted and the you know, and he starts out

762
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: the camp with with his lover Manfred. But then Manfred

763
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 2: stops and he says, I can't leave my family basically,

764
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 2: and he goes back into the back into the camp.

765
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 2: He dies, him and his family die, but he basically said,

766
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: you know, if I will never be free if I'm

767
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 2: not free with my family. But so then gad Beck

768
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 2: spends the next three years helping Jews escape before he

769
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 2: gets betrayed by a fucking a Jewish spy for the

770
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: Gestapo and he gets arrested, but he survives the war.

771
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: So this is gonna be another one of those like

772
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: who lives, who dies?

773
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, little list of me, just listening intently until the

774
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 3: very end. It's like, okay, well not the next one.

775
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 3: Maybe the next one will be better.

776
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, well then, you know, So this guy survives the

777
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 2: war and he spends his lover doesn't but he does.

778
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 3: Well, it's nice that, like, even after his lover doesn't

779
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: go with him, he's actually a true like you know

780
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 3: what I mean, he keeps doing fighting the good fight totally.

781
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: He doesn't just fuck off, which would be exactly perfectly fair.

782
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 2: I am not judging anyone who fucks off out of

783
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: a place is trying to murder them, you know, yeah, exactly.

784
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 2: And he lives to be eighty eight and he spends

785
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: the last thirty five years of his life with his partner.

786
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 2: So I like when it's.

787
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 3: A good ending, Yeah, thank you.

788
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 2: Now on to others. Yeah, okay. So then there's a

789
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 2: Count Albrecht von Bernstaff who's a gay aristocrat and he's

790
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 2: this he's a short, balding man. He's always impeccably dressed,

791
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 2: and he wastes most of the war years sitting around

792
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: cafes hitting on waiters, or that's what he wants people

793
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 2: to think right, I mean he does. He is these things.

794
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 2: He's a short, balding, well dressed man who hits on

795
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 2: a lot of waiters. But he's actually he's he's playing

796
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: up the like foppish aristocrat gay man stereotype to draw

797
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 2: attention from his actual work, which is he's running an

798
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 2: underground railroad helping Jews and other dissidents get themselves out

799
00:40:59,360 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: of Germany.

800
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 3: That's genius, I know. And like that does take like

801
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 3: front and center, you know, like put the gay out

802
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: front and then let me do my secret good job. Yeah, totally,

803
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: this one could keep him distracted.

804
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, oh, I'm just a creepy, harmless old

805
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: gay guy, you know, like uh yeah. And he's so

806
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: aristocratic and I kind of love him for this. He's

807
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 2: so aristocratic that he figures like, all right, I'm doing

808
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 2: something that is obviously illegal, being being gay, but I'm

809
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 2: so rich that everyone puts up with it.

810
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Power. I think it was the last episode.

811
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 3: Maybe it was this, Yeah it was last, but like Power,

812
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 3: you can you can get away with more.

813
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And yeah, because because.

814
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: Money, power and money. Sorry, I'm like I have a

815
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 3: lot of insight thoughts that are just I think, and

816
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 3: they say it out loud, even if it's like not

817
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 3: even my right timing.

818
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 2: But I think that's the point of a podcast.

819
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 3: Why am my podcast?

820
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 2: Because otherwise it would be me talking to myself and

821
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: that would be half as interesting as fair but.

822
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 3: No money and power. So that's how you hack life, unfortunately.

823
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: I know.

824
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 2: And it's like all across history. If you're poor and gay,

825
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 2: you're fucked, and if you're rich and gay, you're just eccentric,

826
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 2: you know.

827
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, very true, Oscar Wild.

828
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 2: Yeah totally, although it only sort of works out for

829
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: him different points.

830
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but still but that was a bad example whatever.

831
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, it is a It is a

832
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: good example because like he's able to exist in that

833
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 2: way at all because of that kind.

834
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 3: Of exactly yeah, who's accepted as what he was, yeah

835
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 3: versus yeah.

836
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 2: Anyway, So the so Count Albrecht he he coordinates with

837
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 2: gay resistance groups in the Netherlands, and to quote an

838
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 2: anonymously written article that's coming from an upcoming issue of

839
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,479
Speaker 2: a magazine called Baden that the author let me read before, also,

840
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 2: Count Albrecht had warned his contacts in Holland about the

841
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: Nazi invasion before it began, so they could prepare themselves.

842
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 2: In one instance, members of a gay society took measures

843
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 2: ahead of the German invasion. In preparation for the catastrophe.

844
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 2: The editor of their paper, Levin Strecht, burned the organization

845
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 2: mailing list another comrade Aren't. Then Saundhorst committed the entire

846
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: list to memory so that they could find one another afterwards.

847
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: And I really like that because I like, yeah, because

848
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 2: when I first started doing this, like everyone's like keeping

849
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: these records, and he keeps getting them all in trouble, right,

850
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 2: and so I'm like, what do you what do you

851
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: fucking doing? Burn your fucking records?

852
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah.

853
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 2: But then the guy who memorizes it all makes reminds

854
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 2: me that I'm like, well, it was so hard for

855
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: them to find each other in the first place, that

856
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: like losing that is losing something really important.

857
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, yeah, memorizing is that's what. That's a

858
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 3: great solution if you're able to.

859
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 2: Do that, you know, totally.

860
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 3: Also Mohammed, of the prophet of Islam, he memorized the Kuran,

861
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 3: you know, how to read and write, so it works.

862
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 3: Look at him now you know he's done. Well, yeah,

863
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 3: I've heard of him, you know. Crazy. Yeah.

864
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: So eventually Count Albrett gets gets found out, and he

865
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 2: gets arrested, and he gets into a series of concentration

866
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: camps and he gets really horrendously tortured. But his fellow inmates,

867
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: they remember him based on how he kept everyone's spirits up,

868
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 2: like he would he'd be sitting around in the concentration

869
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: camp and he'd be like, we're all going to have

870
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 2: the most fabulous party at my house when this is

871
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 2: all done. You are all invited. Everyone's coming over, like,

872
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 2: you know, break out all the finest stuff, best party ever.

873
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: And and he didn't survive the camps. He died in

874
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 2: the camps. But I don't know, hundreds of people, at

875
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: least Jews and gays and gay Jews and at least

876
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 2: two different countries survived the war because of his efforts

877
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 2: and him disguising himself himself as a fop, you know,

878
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 2: and playing into the like being like, oh, yes, homosexuals

879
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 2: are cowards, we would never do anything bad, you know.

880
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 3: Use the stereotype to your benefit, just like you know

881
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 3: what I mean. It's or like not benefit, but like

882
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 3: your advantage. Yeah, yeah, wow, what a guy.

883
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: I know, I like him, okay. And one of the

884
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: things that it's kind of arc that I ran across

885
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 2: in a lot of this research, a lot of the

886
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: gay men who survived the concentration camps get immediately re

887
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: arrested because they're gay, right, because you're not allowed to

888
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 2: be gay, whether it's Nazi Germany or Soviet Union. Well

889
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 2: East Germany, at least the Soviet Union had more complicated

890
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right, I think Hitler had re I know that,

891
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: like Lenin made homosexuality legal, and then Stalin was like, JK,

892
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: fuck all you. But anyway, one guy, for example, that

893
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: I was reading about, I don't have his name in

894
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,919
Speaker 2: front of me. He wasn't as much of a resistance fighter,

895
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 2: although just existing is resistance. I'm not trying to like

896
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 2: knock him. He retold his experience where he was taken

897
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: back literally in front of the same judge that had

898
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 2: sentenced him to a concentration camp previously, because they didn't

899
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 2: actually get rid of the fucking Nazis, they just like

900
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 2: cut off the head of it. Yeah, so he gets

901
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 2: sent back to the same judge who's like you again

902
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 2: and then sentences him right back to fucking person.

903
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 3: That makes me so mad.

904
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

905
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 3: People empower, staying power, yeah ultimately.

906
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Okay. I want to end with with one

907
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 2: last short story about a queer poet named Robert Desnos

908
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 2: and he was poet. Yeah, he was heavily involved in

909
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 2: the French surrealist scene and he joins the resistance to

910
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 2: Germany once you know, francis under occupation and like our

911
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 2: Dutch heroes from last episode or last Monday whatever on hoseay,

912
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 2: is this a new episode? Is this just a different

913
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 2: half of the same episode. I don't understand the taxonomy

914
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 2: of my own job.

915
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:29,720
Speaker 1: It's a two parter, okay.

916
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 2: In the last part of this two part episode, perfect, thanks, thanks,

917
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 2: I'm good at my job. So he works as a

918
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 2: counterfeitter and he makes fake id's and he also does

919
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 2: a ton of other stuff. He actually works for a

920
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 2: collaborationist newspaper as a spy, and he passes along all

921
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 2: the information he learns by working for a shitty pro

922
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 2: German newspaper. He passes it along to the Resistance. He

923
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 2: also wrote for underground papers under a ton of different names,

924
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: and in nineteen forty four he gets caught and he

925
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 2: gets sent to a series of concentration camps. But at heart, right,

926
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: this guy's a surrealist. So one day, according to a

927
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 2: Holocaust survivor named Odette, and it's relayed. This story is

928
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 2: relaid through a writer named Susan Griffin. So Robert's waiting

929
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 2: in line for the fucking gas chamber, and he just

930
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,959
Speaker 2: jumps up and runs up to a man who's ahead

931
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: of him in line, and he just gets really excited

932
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: and he starts reading the man's palm and he's like,

933
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 2: look here, look at your lifeline. You're gonna live a

934
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: long life, and you're gonna have three children. And his absurdism, right,

935
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 2: because they all know what's fucking happening. I think his

936
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: absurdism is so contagious that everyone's just just like breaking

937
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 2: out laughing, and it confuses the guards so completely that

938
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: the guards send them back to their barracks. Wow, because

939
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 2: they don't know how to handle these people who are

940
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: supposed to just be like totally given up, who are

941
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 2: like right riotlessly, rioteously, who are laughing very hard, uncontrollably, and.

942
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 3: Wow, that's so fascinating.

943
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 2: And he he doesn't die in a gas chamber.

944
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: He used used the phrase unexecuted in your script.

945
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 2: Everyone gets sent back to the barracks unexecuted is the

946
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:23,359
Speaker 2: way I read it. Yeah, and he technically survives the war,

947
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 2: but he caught typhoid, I believe, in the concentration camp,

948
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: and he dies within a month of liberation. But again,

949
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 2: that doesn't see him right. I know, I know, are fair?

950
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 3: What is nothing like?

951
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 2: Okay? But the reason I want to end on that

952
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 2: note is because I think people look at some of

953
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 2: this history wrong, at least like queer history, because they're like, oh,

954
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 2: did they succeed, Like a lot of the stuff I

955
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 2: would read being like, oh, they didn't succeed because they died,

956
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: or they didn't succeed because they only blew up eight

957
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 2: hundred thousand records instead of three million records or whatever. Right,

958
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 2: but they it to me, it feels like they succeeded, right.

959
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 2: They they chose resistance and a lot of them, most

960
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: of them didn't survive the war. But they say fucking

961
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 2: thousands of people and I don't know.

962
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 3: They died fighting, you know what I mean, Like if

963
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 3: they did die in a way that they shouldn't have, Like,

964
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 3: it's just a testament to like I don't know, caring

965
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 3: more about the world and yourself, and like I don't know,

966
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 3: I don't know where I'm going, I don't know when

967
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 3: end when.

968
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 2: I start them.

969
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 3: But I think it's pretty bad ass.

970
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that they like they they basically they

971
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 2: proved a fucking lot and they certainly proved like our

972
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 2: man Willem said at the beginning that homosexual is not

973
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,760
Speaker 2: a fucking synonym for a week, which is what people

974
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,240
Speaker 2: used to treat it as. And no one can fucking

975
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 2: say that they were cowards, you know.

976
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 3: No one. Yeah, definitely not, that's the last thing, yeah

977
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 3: would be. I was thinking though not to like yes

978
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 3: and but no, yes, And it uh like the vast

979
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 3: majority of these people that we learned about are our men, correct,

980
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 3: So it is interesting just to think, like how many

981
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 3: more people there were that maybe didn't get like attention

982
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 3: or history and about them, or that were who were

983
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 3: I mean, there was a there's a spattering of women.

984
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 3: I'm there for sure. But it does make me wonder

985
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,399
Speaker 3: if again it goes back to power. As a man,

986
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 3: you have more power, right, and maybe that's why you're

987
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 3: able to accomplish more, especially I mean back then and

988
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 3: now what am I saying, But it's interesting to think

989
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:36,280
Speaker 3: about who gets written about, even in like alt history

990
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 3: totally because as I'm a filmmaker, I want to say

991
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 3: in quotes, but come on, I should like whatever imposters

992
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 3: in drome one on one, but filmmaker imposter syndrome is

993
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 3: real and it But I was reading about like writing

994
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 3: like scripts and movies and stuff, and how we're so

995
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 3: used to just pretending that Western story structure is like

996
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 3: the default way to tell stories and we forget that,

997
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 3: like so many cultures have different ways of telling stories

998
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 3: and like, yeah, it's like Bollywood films are structures so

999
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 3: differently than ours, and we assume ours is the right

1000
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 3: default way. And I think that's the same with just everything.

1001
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 3: It's all you didn't mention that this is the westernized

1002
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 3: version of it. And it just makes me wonder what

1003
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 3: else is out there, because I know there are more

1004
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 3: amazing people out there. Maybe we don't have to know

1005
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 3: about them, just to know they existed is enough.

1006
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1007
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 3: I don't know if that made any sense.

1008
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 2: No, No, I think that that actually gets it something

1009
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: really important. One of the things that I kept running

1010
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 2: across with this is like I think I feel certain

1011
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: that there was as many you know, lesbians fighting against

1012
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,879
Speaker 2: the Nazis right as there were gay men. And most

1013
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 2: of the people with names that I'm coming up with

1014
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 2: are gay men, and I think partly that's because they

1015
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 2: get written about for being gay in a way that

1016
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 2: a lot of the women aren't being written about. And

1017
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 2: then like it's actually telling that the Oedawis pirates who

1018
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 2: were a mixture of boys and girls, right, they that's

1019
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 2: not a story full of names. You know, there are

1020
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 2: some names we have for that, but mostly you have

1021
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:18,439
Speaker 2: these like anonymous masses of like mixed group of queer

1022
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: kids who are like, all right, let's suck up these Nazis.

1023
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 2: And they don't get fucking remembered except kind of collectively.

1024
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 2: And you know, I don't know whether that's better or

1025
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 2: worse or different or whatever, but it does it. You're right,

1026
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 2: It leads to this, like you know, the which stories

1027
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 2: get told absolutely.

1028
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 3: Exactly, Yeah, oh yeah, think about the stuff all the time, yeah,

1029
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 3: because I mean I don't know even like, yeah, the

1030
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 3: history stories or whatever, like what we've even gotten as

1031
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 3: a civilizations about like what we've learned from our past

1032
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 3: centuries of existence, Like even that is curated, you know

1033
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 3: what I mean. It's like it just we just live

1034
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 3: in a matrix is real. But but no, I'm really

1035
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,240
Speaker 3: happy to have learned all of this stuff from you

1036
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 3: today and on Monday two days ago because we're not

1037
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 3: recorded at the same time. But but no, I hope

1038
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 3: it makes other people think about this kind of stuff too,

1039
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 3: because it doesn't have to be like this default way

1040
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 3: of thinking of like, oh, this is just the way

1041
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 3: things are because this is the way they are. This

1042
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 3: is the way they are because this is how they

1043
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 3: always have been because certain people make it this way,

1044
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 3: if that makes sense. So it's I don't know, just

1045
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 3: using your brain to philosophize, I think is sometimes a

1046
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 3: good thing. And it's like do some shrooms or something.

1047
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 3: Every other podcast about IM like, do some shrooms. But

1048
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 3: if you're able to, it's I think it's a cure

1049
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 3: for things or just seeing the world a different way.

1050
00:53:50,840 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 3: Can I shut up moment? God, Okay, I'm shutting up now.

1051
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. When I when I saw streams, I saw the

1052
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 2: void and it was really bad and dark for months.

1053
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 3: But okay, I stay correct.

1054
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 2: But my experience is not the I'm certainly not anti

1055
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 2: people messing around with this kind of stuff. You know,

1056
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: I gave it multiple shots.

1057
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 3: I should have made a blanket. You're right. No, No,

1058
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 3: I mean, but people should.

1059
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 2: I don't know. There's all kinds of blankets that are dangerous.

1060
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 2: You know.

1061
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 3: All I meant to say was like expand your mind

1062
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 3: and like I like that. I'm leaving this recording being like,

1063
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 3: you know what, maybe we're not so bad?

1064
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, would you say that there's cool people who

1065
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:43,720
Speaker 2: did cool stuff?

1066
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 3: You know, I did cool stuff, but you mentioned it.

1067
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 3: But thank you for having me and letting me ramble

1068
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 3: to no end. Uh, this was really fun.

1069
00:54:58,440 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 2: Oh thanks so much for being on.

1070
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 1: I'm back again.

1071
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 2: Please, yeah, please, I would love.

1072
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 3: To come back and learn more good things about good people,

1073
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 3: cool cool things about cool What am I doing? I

1074
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 3: must to get all love cool things about cool people

1075
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 3: who happen to be good doing good. I'm doing it again.

1076
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 3: I'm gonna stop talking. This is the end of my sentence.

1077
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 1: Now, Saren, before we send you off, is there anything

1078
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: you would like to plug?

1079
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1080
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 3: I'm Sreen. You can follow me on the internet if

1081
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 3: you want. Twitter is Shiro Hero six sixty six and

1082
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 3: Instagram is just Shiro Hero. I make films. I write poetry.

1083
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 3: I have a couple of poetry books out that I

1084
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 3: self published.

1085
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:40,760
Speaker 2: What's the newest one called.

1086
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 3: Archives?

1087
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 2: Cool?

1088
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's basically just emo diaries I've decided to publish.

1089
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 3: It's very personal, but yeah, that's just my I'm honest

1090
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 3: to a fault. And if you want to follow along, great.

1091
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 3: If you don't like me rambling, good because I'm going to.

1092
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 1: Stop now Margaret plugs anything.

1093
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 2: You can also follow me on Twitter at Magpie Killjoy,

1094
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 2: where I try to be clever because Twitter is just

1095
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 2: this awful competition. It's like an arena of people trying

1096
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:18,720
Speaker 2: to acquire enough clout to not starve by being clever

1097
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 2: and having all the right takes. And I always.

1098
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 3: Around takes always. But were you were you? Were you

1099
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 3: on Twitter when it was just like a place to

1100
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 3: like say your thoughts out loud. I look at the

1101
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 3: dumbest ship. It's like Facebook statuses or like whatever, where

1102
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 3: it's just like I'm hungry, like I'm gonna feel my

1103
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 3: test and now it's just instead of being like a

1104
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 3: random thought catalog, it's definitely this one upping the arena

1105
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 3: of death.

1106
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, speaking speaking of death, can I can I

1107
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 4: plug Jimmie Loftus's Ghost Church that's on cool.

1108
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: Zone Media as well. That will be will be out

1109
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,839
Speaker 1: by the time this this episode drops, so check that out.

1110
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:07,319
Speaker 2: By Jamie Loftus, Queen future guest of this podcast.

1111
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 4: Your guest future guests of this podcast, Jamie Loftus. I

1112
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 4: also produce that one, so check it out.

1113
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 2: Sophie produces all podcasts. I think you've already heard me say, yeah.

1114
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, legally all podcasts are mine, yeah, except except for

1115
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 4: once again.

1116
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: The jo Rogod podcast is actually a YouTube show.

1117
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 3: Yes, legally distinct.

1118
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, thank you, and we'll be back Monday, right.

1119
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 2: Right, Margaret, Yay, next Monday, forever until the heat death

1120
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 2: of the universe.

1121
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: Cool Cool Bye, Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is

1122
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media.

1123
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1124
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 4: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

1125
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.