1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How many times do you 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: wheel into the grocery store or them All or Target 3 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: and you hop out of your car and you're race in, 4 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: barely looking behind you. Maybe you think to kick the 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: lock on the mini van? How many times do you 6 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: do that? A week, a month, a year? Guys, I'm 7 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: about to tell you the stories, the true stories of 8 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: some young ladies that did exactly what we do every day, 9 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: but they never made it home. Does the name Kelsey 10 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: Smith ring a bell? It's the name I'll never forget. 11 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: Listen to this. Saturday, June second, two thousand and seven, 12 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: Kelsey left her house to go to Target. She was 13 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: going to buy a gift for her boyfriend for their 14 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: six month anniversary. She was talking to her mother on 15 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: the phone at Target, found what she wanted, went to 16 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: the checkout stand, and basically, I think, closed out a 17 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: phone conversation with her mother, saying I'll see you in 18 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: a little bit. Kelsey was supposed to meet her boyfriend 19 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: John at the house at seven thirty. She had spoken 20 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: to her mom at Target at seven seven thirty rolls 21 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: around Kelsey's not home. She wasn't answering text messages. She 22 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: wasn't answering phone calls. That was a media cause for 23 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: concern that something's up. The distance from Target to the 24 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: Smith's house probably an eight minute drive. It didn't take 25 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: them long to realize that something's not right. Her boyfriend 26 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: waits around for about a half hour. He's calling her, 27 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: texting her, and she's not answering. He starts to become 28 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: really concerned, and that's when he calls Kelsey's dad, Greg 29 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: with me and All Star panel to break it down 30 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: and put it back together again. And let me tell you, 31 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: we are not trying to make you afraid of going 32 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: to Target or the grocery store, of them all trying 33 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: to arm you with information to protect you and your children. 34 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: It took me two years to research and write Don't 35 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: Be a Victim Fighting Back against America's crime Wave. When 36 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: I began writing the part of this book about protecting 37 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: yourself while shopping, the first person that sprang to my 38 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: mind was Kelsey Smith. For so many different reasons, joining 39 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: me Doctor Debbie Joffey Illis psychologist, Professor Columbia Jason Ocean, 40 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: renowned attorney, joining me out of New York, Richard private 41 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: investigator with Crispin special investigations out of Liquidille former police officer. 42 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher the medical examiner for the entire state 43 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: of Florida, and you can find him at pathcaremed dot 44 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: com for your forensic needs. Sierra Gillespie Crime online dot 45 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter. But first I want to go to 46 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: who I consider a friend, the father of Kelsey. Greg. 47 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Greg. I'm actually getting 48 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: chill bumps on my arms and legs right now because 49 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: I remember when we spoke and all you and your 50 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: family went through when Kelsey went missing. What do you remember? 51 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: You know, I have children now and you're a little girl, 52 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: just five years older than my little Lucy. What do 53 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: you remember of that night when Keelsey went missing? It 54 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: was it's tough to describe. I mean, I didn't want 55 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: to believe that anything had happened to her, but it 56 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: was so out of character for her to not come 57 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: home when she said that she would be there. So 58 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: the whole evening as it unrolled, she was going to shop, 59 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: like you said, to get a gift for her boyfriend, 60 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: and then they were going to go out. She was 61 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: supposed to be back at the house to meet him 62 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: and she wasn't there on time, and we couldn't get 63 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: ahold of her by phone. Again, this is two thousand 64 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: and seven, so cell phones are not quite as ubiquitous 65 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: as they are now, but still a lot of people 66 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: had them. Texting was all the raids back then. Of course, 67 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: that was back when you got charged for every text 68 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: that you made. I can tell you about the cell phone. 69 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: Not being able to get ahold of her was our 70 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: first queue that something had gone wrong. And then secondly, 71 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: my parents lived out. I knew where she was at. 72 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: I knew she'd go into the target. My parents lived 73 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: out that way. They drove by the Target and didn't 74 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: see her car, but they continued to drive around and 75 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: there's a mall right across the street from the Target, 76 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: and they saw her car there. Oh gosh, okay, wait 77 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait, I'm just getting that feeling. She 78 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: doesn't answer the phone. She always picks the phone up. 79 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: You know. She made it to Target because she was 80 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: talking to her mom as she was getting the little 81 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: present for the boyfriend. This is, as I've always said, 82 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: a little girl scrubbed in sunshine, I mean precious good grades, 83 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: sweet sweet girl shopping at Target, and that feeling when 84 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: mom and dad keep calling, calling, calling, calling, and she's 85 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: not home. She's eight minutes away, for Pete's sake, the 86 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: grandparents driving around and they don't see her car at Tar, 87 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: then find it at a mall, a mall near by. 88 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: But there was no reason for her to be at 89 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: the mall, right, Greg, not that we knew of the 90 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: Only she was going to target. She specifically had called 91 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: her mother while she was at the target because the 92 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: item that she was looking for. My wife knew exactly 93 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: where it was, and they were having that conversation on 94 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: the phone to where to go to pick up the 95 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: gift that she wanted to give for John, which she 96 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: did purchase. It was found in the car. Later, when 97 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: you heard your daughter's car was spotted at a nearby mall, 98 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: or she wasn't supposed to be and she's not in 99 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: the car and the target purchase is in the car, 100 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: what went through your mind? Well, my first thought once 101 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: I got a phone call. The actual call I got 102 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: was from one of my daughters, Lindsay, who was out 103 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: with John. They were also driving around trying to find 104 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: Kelsey's car to see if if they can figure out 105 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: what had happened, and then they ran into my parents 106 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: and then Lindsey called me and said, hey, Dad, Mebi 107 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: and Peppie. My parents found the car and Kelsey's not here, 108 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: and John wants to open the doors and look around, 109 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: and I said, no, don't let him get anywhere near 110 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: the car. I'm on my way up. Called the police. 111 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: Why did you say don't touch the car? Well, I 112 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: am law enforcement officer, and my first thought was that 113 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: something could be wrong, and I didn't want to. I 114 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: didn't want any chance of a crime scene that might 115 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: have trace evidence being disturbed. How did you know that 116 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: soon end this could be a crime. Gut feeling, call 117 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: it a parent's instinct or a gut feeling. She never, never, ever, 118 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: ever was late. She was late one time in her 119 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: life and got grounded and then never did it again. 120 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: She would always text if she changed locations or call 121 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: and let us know, Hey, I was at so and 122 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: so's house, now we're down here. And it was just 123 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: something that I required as a police officer. Of all 124 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: my kids, I have five, and they hey, I don't 125 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: care where you're going, but I need to know where 126 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: you're at just in case something happens. And so you. 127 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: Richard Trance far of our Fort Lauderdale cop now private 128 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: investigator with Crispin Special Investigations, He's so right because how 129 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: much evidence can you lose or inadvertently destroy by touching 130 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: the car. Well, touching the car, you're going to touch 131 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: any DNA that's on the vehicle. You may mess with 132 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: the fingerprints they're gonna be on there. You may remove hair, 133 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: any evidence that's in that car. Anybody touches that, you 134 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: have a very good chance that they're going to get, 135 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: they're going to contaminate. So we'll hold in that car 136 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: was one of the best things you know, the father 137 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: could have ever done. Clime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 138 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: we were talking about information to arm you to protect 139 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: yourself and your family. And with me who I consider 140 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: not just a colleague but a longtime friend, the dad 141 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: of a beautiful young girl, Kelsey. This is Greg Smith 142 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: Well with a law background. He immediately knew what to do. 143 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: Although how you stealed yourself and told the boyfriend and 144 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: the other daughter don't judge the car, even at a 145 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: time when you felt your daughter's missing, amazes me. Guys. 146 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at investigation discovery. The 147 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: surveillance video was very revealing. A white male was following 148 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: Kelsey around the store, up and down several aisles, staying 149 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: far enough back that she couldn't quite see that he 150 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: was following her. It was a whole flight watching a 151 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: lion circle a wild the beast. I mean, this is 152 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: something you see in the wild. It was crazy. And 153 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: then when she goes to the checkout, that's when he 154 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: leaves the store. We found out later he had left 155 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: the store before her so he could go to his 156 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: pickup truck and get his gun. This is not something 157 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: that happens every day anywhere, but especially not Overlyn Park. 158 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: To have somebody go missing from a store like that, 159 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: it's chilling. Anyone could have been the target that day, 160 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: it just happened to be her. Back to Kelsey's dad 161 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: joining us, Greg Smith, and he is one of the 162 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: founders of the Kelsey Smith Foundation, which you can find online. 163 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: I encourage you to do that, Greg. What did the 164 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: video show there at Target? Well, the internal video inside 165 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: the store, you can see Kelsey going to the various 166 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: places that she needed to go to complete her shopping 167 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: tasks and her abductor eventually killer is always present in 168 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: the video somewhere he's right behind her. It's not very obvious. 169 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: It's Bob Miller, who was one of the lead detectives, 170 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: described it as like a some kind of predator circling 171 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: Wildebeesta and that's that's exactly it. He was not very 172 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: overt about what he did, but it was very obvious 173 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: following his eyes. They were always following Kelsey throughout the 174 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: store and then of course when she left the store. 175 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 1: The abduction was actually caught on tape. To Jason Oceans, 176 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: new York defense attorney joining US, Jason Oceans, I have 177 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: always said NASA could take some clues from Target. How 178 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 1: many times has Target video been used at trial and 179 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: in investigations. It's incredible. And Nancy the advent of CCTV, 180 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: and you know, certainly his aided law enforcement families relative 181 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: to help solve a crime situation. Here thousands, thousands of crimes. 182 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: And so you know the thing about Target is and 183 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: Greg Smith you know this better than anybody is it's 184 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: incredible surveillance video. So I always questioned why people say, oh, 185 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: my camera wasn't working. The surveillance wasn't working. We taped 186 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: over it is too grainy because if Target can do it, 187 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: anybody can do it right if they can pull it 188 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: off the way Target does. And when you look at 189 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: that video, Kelsey has no idea. This guy is in 190 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: every picture. As you said, say, she comes in, then 191 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: she's at the checkout, then she's at this aisle, that aisle. 192 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: He's always in the picture. I heard you say that, Greg. Yeah, 193 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: it's very apparent when you watch the video, particularly with 194 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: you know, secondhand knowledge twenty twenty hindsight that yeah, he 195 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: was in there, following her around the store and did 196 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 1: not have good intentions and she never noticed him. And 197 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: why should she? When you go shopping, are you constantly 198 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: looking over your shoulder? Well, I can tell you this much. 199 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: I have researched, investigated, prosecutor, and covered so many cases 200 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: that it really kicks in when you're going back to 201 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: your car. The likelihood that you're going to be attacked 202 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: in a department store, in a store is very low. 203 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: It's when you walk through those doors. Who is this guy? 204 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at Investigation Discovery releasing 205 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: that surveillance footage that really helped this case because thousands 206 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: of tips came pouring in it led to the two 207 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: tips that brought police to Edwin Hall. Edwin Hall was 208 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: the suspect. He was twenty six years old. Yon Hall 209 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: was sitting at work on a lunch break and then 210 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: the news comes on on the television and one of 211 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: his co worker says, isn't that your truck? Looks inside 212 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: the lunch him his truck's literally parked just outside the window. 213 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: So his co workers looking at the video on the 214 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: camp the news, looking outside and confirming with Edwin, is 215 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: that your truck? And at that point Edwin tells his boss, 216 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: I'm sick. I'm going home. Oddly enough, Edwin All had 217 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: a MySpace page that described his interests as eating small 218 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: children and harming animals. He did have a violent history. 219 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: He had a record. He had threatened his own sister 220 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: with a knife when he was just sixteen years old, 221 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: joining me as Kilsy's dad, Greg Smith. Police releasing that 222 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: surveillance video footage of the man following Kelsey inside a 223 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: target with plenty of people around, no one noticed a thing. 224 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: His name Edwin Hall, he said, weren't When a coworker 225 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: sees on the knees that police are looking for his truck, 226 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: and he immediately says he feels bad and leaves. Greg Smith, 227 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: do you remember that being flashed all across the knees 228 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: and the search for your daughter? Oh? Absolutely, it was. 229 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: I mean it was one of the thousands and thousands 230 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: of tips that came in. Eventually, there were some people 231 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: that identified him from the video. Particularly there was a 232 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: still shot at the law enforcement put out of him 233 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: exiting the store that gave some detail, and there were 234 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: several people that said, hey, I know who that guy is, 235 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: as well as his truck is rather distinctive. It was 236 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: an older model truck, not that many of them out 237 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: on the road anymore, so it was clearly easy to identify, 238 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: but it wasn't clear that he was the person that 239 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: had done anything because the abduction video was not clear 240 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: enough to identify who the abductor was. So it was 241 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: he was always a person of interest until finally some 242 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: of that evidence that we've talked about at the very 243 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: beginning that was found inside the car put him in 244 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: the car. Let me ask you this about that surveillance 245 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: video in the parking lot. And I devote literally pages 246 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: and pages Greg about safe in parking lots, But how 247 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: do you think he managed to get it over on Kelsey. 248 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: She walked out the door. She had a very short 249 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: walk to her car. In your mind in law enforcement, 250 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: how did he do it? How did he take her 251 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: by surprise? He's done him before, that's pretty obvious from 252 00:16:54,760 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: watching the video. We got information after the fact again 253 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: that a lady had been attacked in a shopping district 254 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: just over the state line in Missouri. Were only twelve 255 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: miles from Missouri. Same type of thing happened where someone 256 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: tried to grab her as she was getting in the car. 257 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: Although this person that attacked her didn't attack her while 258 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: the door was opened. Her door was still closed and 259 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: she was able to get away from him. Now, they 260 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: didn't have any video there, and she did report it 261 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: to police at the time, but there were no pictures 262 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: of him or anything. But she was my understanding as 263 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: she actually called the police after Kelsey's killer's picture showed 264 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: up on television and said, that's the guy. That's the 265 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: guy that did this to me. It was very planned out. 266 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: He parked a row behind her. Video shows him following 267 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: her into the parking lot. His truck was behind her car. 268 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: She pulls into a parking space, his truck goes around 269 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: behind the target building, makes a complete circle, comes back, 270 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: spots or car parks a road behind, Kelsey goes in. 271 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: He goes in behind her, then he comes back out. 272 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: He goes out the indoor. Um, so it's obvious where 273 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: he was and to pick him up, and he goes 274 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 1: out into the end of the parking lot. And then 275 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: the abduction you actually see it's just a blur at 276 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: first coming across the screen from the left hand side 277 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: to the right hand side, which is the actual abduction 278 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: that took place. So it was very it was very practiced. 279 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: It was very quick. Um seventeen seconds from the time 280 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: he appears in the video until her car backs out 281 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: of the parking space. So um, he'd been there and 282 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: done that before. This was not his first time climb 283 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about information 284 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: in a book that took two years to research and 285 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: put together for you. This is for you to arm 286 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: yourself and the ones you love with information. In joining 287 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: me as a longtime colleague and man I consider a friend. 288 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: The father of Kelsey Smith, the founder of the Kelsey 289 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: Smith Foundation, Greg Smith, along with an all star panel, 290 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: Jason Ocean's doctor Debbie Joffe, Ellis Richard Truntz with Crispin's 291 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: Special Investigations, Doctor Tim Gallagher, Sierra Gillespie, Guys, I want 292 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: you to take a listen to our friends at Investigation Discovery. 293 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: We do search Warren's house, get us shrine for healthic 294 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: religion in his basement. There's talk that there was some 295 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: kind of religious overtones to its botanic overtonlets to it. 296 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: Because of the murdering background, he wouldn't confirm it. But 297 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: when we found Kelsey, the stakes and branches that were 298 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: over her body were in a particular pattern that me 299 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: have looked somewhat like a pentagram. It gave the impression 300 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: that it might have sacrifice for that religion. When police 301 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: go to Edwin Hall's home to question him, he's packing 302 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: bags with his wife and child. He says they're getting 303 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: ready to go on vacation. They bring him in for 304 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: questioning and his fingerprints are matched for those on Kelsey 305 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: Smith's car. Edwin R. Hall, twenty six, of Alaifa, has 306 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: been arrested for aggravated kidnapping and murder in the first 307 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: degree with me is Kelsey's dad, but first to doctor 308 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: Debbie Joffey, ellis joining us from Columbia. Doctor Debbie, you 309 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: hear that the rapist, the murderer has a wife and child. 310 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: I know it's hard for a lot of people to understand. 311 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: Why would someone that has the opportunity for regular relations 312 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: with a wife seek out an innocent girl to rape. Well, 313 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: even if he has some regular relations, clearly his brain 314 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: is not operating in a healthy way. It's highly likely 315 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: there's some neurological disorder, certainly psychosis and need to control, 316 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: dominate and act in such obsessive and evil ways. And fortunately, 317 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: from the way you describe Kelsey and Greg, my heart 318 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: felt condolences to you and your family. Kelsey sunny kind angelic. 319 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: That kind of disposition can give an impression of an 320 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: easy victim. And to go to one of the things 321 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: you alluded to about your book, Nancy, the importance of 322 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: being mindful to prevent such things that would include not 323 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: sauntering walking in a very bold, assertive, direct, purposeful way 324 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: in a place like a parking lot or open space. 325 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: Because someone who looks like an easy catch for an 326 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: evil minded person, um if they walk in a more 327 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: assertive way may just may I mean thinking for an 328 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: a a catch you know, I'm also curious Greg Smith, 329 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: because when you speak of Kelsey, when you describe the investigation, 330 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: the disappearance, the discovery of Kelsey's body, you sound like 331 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: law enforcement. How do you even at the time when 332 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: you go, don't touch the car? How do you steal 333 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: yourself and speak so clearly about what happened. Well, it's 334 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: it's training, Nancy. I mean, I've been in law enforcement 335 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: now for twenty three years. Um. And I mean not 336 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: to say that this hasn't had a huge emotional impact 337 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: on me. It has, um. And you know I had 338 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: my I had around with PTSD because of this and 339 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 1: some other things that happened in law enforcement. And it 340 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: was interesting in conversations that I had with my doctor 341 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: that he would often tell me when we were discussing Kelsey, 342 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: stop telling me this, like you're a cop. I want 343 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: to hear what her dad has to say. Um, it's 344 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: a it's a coping mechanism. M I talked about it 345 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: a lot while she was missing. Um. I could analyze 346 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: the case as a cop, and I could keep it together. Um. 347 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: But when I switched over to dad, it was it 348 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: was a lot harder. UM. So it was it was 349 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: It was a way for me to function and think 350 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: that I was doing something and feel that I was 351 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: doing something to help find Kelsey. If I could stay 352 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: in that, in that law enforcement mode and stay in 353 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: that mindset, I hear what you're saying, it's easier to 354 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: just kind of cut that off and deal with it. 355 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: I guess professionally is the only way I can say it. 356 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: But when you say you had PTSD, how did Kelsey's 357 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: murder end up affecting you and your family? Well, that 358 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: was another conscious decision that we made. I mean shortly 359 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: after her body was recovered and we were starting the 360 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: process of all the court hearings and everything that is 361 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: entailed in a capital order case. We sat down as 362 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: a family, my wife, Missy, and I with our kids, 363 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: and we said, Okay, he gets no more. And just 364 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: to be clear, he is Kelsey's killer. And also to 365 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: be clear, I never mentioned his name. My goal has 366 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 1: always been to make sure that Kelsey's story is promoted 367 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: and not his, so I don't ever mention his name. 368 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: That's just just something that I do. But he gets 369 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: no more. He's taken Kelsey from us. He's not going 370 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: to take our family's love for each other. He's not 371 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: going to take our lives away. He's not going to 372 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: take away the joy of later on, we now have 373 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: seven with an eighth grandchild on the way from my 374 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: other children. Those types of things, those are ours, and 375 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: he doesn't get that. He gets no more. And so 376 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: that was a conscious decision that the family made it 377 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: that we actually sit down as a family and discussed it. 378 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: The second conscious decision we made was that this is 379 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: about Kelsey and that should be Kelsey's story and not 380 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: his story, and so we always go out with that 381 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: in mind. Kelsey Smith Foundation, that's one of the reasons 382 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: that's out there is is to commemorate Kelsey's life and 383 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: talk about the type of person she was. But then 384 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: we also have our safety component. I speak all over 385 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: the United States on safety techniques and safety awareness, being 386 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: aware of your environment, those types of things, as well 387 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: as I also go all over the United States and 388 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: brief law enforcement. I do an actual case study on 389 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: Kelsey's case WOW, and we work We work with states 390 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: that have not yet passed to Kelsey Smith Back, which 391 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: legislation that helps law enforcement bind missing people through cell phones, 392 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: and talk to each each organization that I can in 393 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 1: those states, and now twenty seven states out of fifty 394 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: have a Kelsey smithlent to Dodgor Tim Gallagher, the medical 395 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: examiner for the state of Florida at PATHCAREMD dot com. 396 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: Dodgor Gallagher, can you, for instance, in Kelsey's case, determine 397 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: how long she's been dead? That's a good question, Nancy. Actually, 398 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: there are excellent studies, especially at some studies done by 399 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: the University of Florida on the post mortem interval. One 400 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: especially that comes to mind was done by doctor Leras Sutton. 401 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: She came up with a formula that you plug in 402 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: temperature and a body temperature, ambient temperature, etc. You can 403 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: come up with a very accurate postmortem interval. You know. 404 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: That's incredible to me, doctor Gallagher, And I know you 405 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: look at it as a forensic pathologist, as a medical examiner, 406 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: but I'm looking at it from a crime point of view, 407 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: and to you Richard Trunk's PI with Crispin Special Investigations 408 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: dot com. It's amazing to me and scary to me 409 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,479 Speaker 1: that all of this happened and such a short period 410 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: of time. Kelsey was taken from the target shopping. She 411 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: came out with the bag on our way to a car. 412 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: Car was not that far from the door, and within 413 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: a couple of hours it was all over and this 414 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: young girl had been attacked and murdered, just like that. 415 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about the 416 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: disappearance of Kelsey Smith and the death of Kelsey Smith, 417 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: a gorgeous young girl. Her father joining us to you, 418 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: Richard Trunce, Statistically, isn't that typical that the kidnapping and 419 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: the murder occur much more quickly that people realize? I 420 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 1: think it is. It does. It does occur very quickly 421 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: most cases. You know, they tell you if it's not 422 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: solving forty eight hours, then you know, try and get 423 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: these cases solved. As time progressive comes a little bit harder. 424 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: But a lot of these cases do happen very quickly, 425 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: and you know, thankfully there are good law enforcement officers 426 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: out there that I mean, Trunce, me just cut the chase. 427 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that minutes count. When you're starting 428 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: to get to thirty six, forty eight, seventy two hours, 429 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: the likelihood that the victim is dead just rises, you know, exponentially, 430 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: So when you're getting on to twelve twenty four hours. 431 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: The likelihood the victim is a lot is very low. Yes, 432 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: that's true. You know, having the law enforcement officers get 433 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: to the person that got the phone call, getting the 434 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: law enforcement out there to start doing starting to talk 435 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: to people. You know that that's extremely important because they're 436 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: most fantasting. The officers are talking to other people, and 437 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: in this incident, you have video for them all. So 438 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: right away you have officers going over trying to secure 439 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: video at the mall in the parking lot. So that's 440 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: something happens really quick. But you know you have to 441 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: get out. You got to talk and tearrogate the parents 442 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: where the call originated from, trying to find out what 443 00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: happened right away and as quickly as possible. Guys take 444 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: a list of our friends, an investigation discovery. They had 445 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: a pretty solid case. They had him on the surveillance cameras, 446 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: they had his fingerprints. I think the community was very 447 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: ecstatic that they can wrap this up quickly. Part of 448 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: his a plea agreement to avoid the death penalty was 449 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: to give a full confession. Edmond told me that Kelsey 450 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: was just a crime of opportunity. He'd been trolling Oak 451 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: Park ball all day, was approaching ladies, asking him odd questions. 452 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: He was looking for a particular behaviors and that's how 453 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: he found her. Kelsey unfortunately, was totally oblivious to what 454 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: was going on around her, focused on shopping, talking to 455 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: her mom, or he just wasn't paying attention to what 456 00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: was going on around her. Kelsey was just his opportunity. 457 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: She was at the target. He thought she had nice 458 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: legs and told Detective Miller that he thought she was 459 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: twelve and that the evil just overtook him. Greg Smith, 460 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: you're Kelsey's dad. He thought she was twelve. Ay, that's 461 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: a lie because he'd been following her driving around and 462 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: b it is that supposed to make it better than 463 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: he thought she was twelve. That would be a child 464 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: attack and murder. Do you believe anything he said in 465 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: his confession now? It is rather incredulous that he would 466 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: think that she was twelve years old when he followed 467 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: her car into the parking lot. And we often talk 468 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: about that and how how strange that is that that 469 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: description that you heard, that was actually my wife, Missy, 470 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: talking about that. But you know what, You're right, Greg, 471 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: Let's don't talk about him to hail with him. Let's 472 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: just get rid of him right now. Let's talk about 473 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: Kelsey and what, if anything, we can do to help 474 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: other people. That's what this book. Don't be a victim 475 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: fighting back against America's crime wave. It's all about I 476 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: start this chapter off with describing scenarios, real scenarios that 477 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: I investigated, prosecuted, or covered, and in them is a 478 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: story of Kelsey. I follow it up with pages and 479 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: pages of tips for you to stay protected. For instance, 480 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: mega parking lots and garages are a predator's playground. Pick 481 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: a central spot well lit because somehow you'll lose track 482 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: of time inside and it gets dark. The same goes 483 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: for when you park on the street, park where there 484 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: are passer bys or hopefully even an attendant. Always note 485 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: where you park. I now take a picture of it, 486 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: especially at an airport or a big parking debt. Look 487 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: at it before you leave the store, so you don't 488 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: get out and parking deck number three or the green 489 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: level and find out your car's not there at all. 490 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: Isn't it true Greg that now so many cars have 491 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: a fob with an emergency sound or a car horn 492 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: on it. If you can't find it, tap it your 493 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,719 Speaker 1: car should make a sound to help you find it 494 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: more quickly. Have your keys ready. Once you're in the car, 495 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: shut the door, lock it immediately, and don't be fumbling 496 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: with your bags or your cell phone as you walk. 497 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: Look in the back seat just before you get in 498 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: the car, because once you get in, if there's somebody 499 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,239 Speaker 1: back there, and I've worked with a lady that this 500 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: happened to her and her children. If somebody's in the 501 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: back seat and you're in the driver's seat, it's too late, 502 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: it's over. Don't linger to look in as you open 503 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: the door and get in, then look in. But I've 504 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: got the consummate professional with me who is devoted his 505 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: life to helping other people after what happened to his daughter, Kelsey. 506 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: I've got pages and pages and pages of tips, Greg Smith, 507 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: but I want to hear your tips. It sounds like 508 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,919 Speaker 1: you've been attending some of our training, Nancy. From your book, 509 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: all of that is fantastic. I would say two big 510 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: takeaways that people should have for personal safety is one, 511 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: it's just being aware of their environment, what's going on 512 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: around them. We get so caught up in what's going 513 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 1: on on Facebook or Twitter as you're walking out in 514 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: the parking lot and you've got your head buried in 515 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: that cell phone. You've got no idea what's going on 516 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: around you. So that would be my first one. The 517 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: second one is always let somebody know where you're going. 518 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: And I mean, if you know, if you're running to 519 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: the store, you know, if I'm going to the store, 520 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: I let me you know. I said, Hey, I'm running 521 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: to you know, the price chopper or whatever. Um, if 522 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: I stopped somewhere else, I'll text her and let her 523 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: know that that or vice versa. She does that for me. Um. 524 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: If at the very least, as in Kelsey's case, that's 525 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: a starting point for an investigation. If somebody all of 526 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: a sudden was missing and and you know, make no 527 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: mistake about it. With Kelsey's case, that's what it was. 528 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: She just didn't come home on time. There wasn't video 529 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: immediately available to figure out what happened, And even after 530 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: the video was obtained, it wasn't obvious what had happened. 531 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: There had to be some work done on the video 532 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: to figure it out. And so, I mean, all of 533 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: a sudden, she just didn't come home, didn't There wasn't 534 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 1: any indication necessarily the crime had been committed, so it 535 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: was um the fact that we knew where she was, 536 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,479 Speaker 1: and the fact that she had these habits of letting 537 00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: us know when she changed location, and the fact that 538 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: it allowed us in a very short amount of time 539 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: to say something's wrong, something has happened. This is not normal. 540 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 1: Beg Let me tell you a couple of are my tips. 541 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: Always position your body to use your shopping cart as 542 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,959 Speaker 1: a shield or even a weapon. Laugh now, but thank 543 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: me later. Use everything at your disposal, your pocketbook, your 544 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: cell phone, the parking, this shopping cart. Keep it between 545 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: you and everybody else. I know it sounds crazy, but 546 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: it could save your life. Buy a mirror at a 547 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: car wash or an AutoZone type store so that you 548 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: can see all the way behind you, even if you 549 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: have a minivan, that you can see what's happening around 550 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: your car. These are simple tips that anybody can follow. 551 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: There are pages and pages of them in a new book, 552 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: Don't Be a Victim. And before I sign off to 553 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:14,439 Speaker 1: Greg Smith, Kelsey's dad, tell us about your foundation, Greg Well. 554 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: The Kelsey Smith Foundation was founded exactly one month of 555 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: the day after Kelsey's death, and the purpose is to 556 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: provide resources and education to public organizations, schools, lawmakers, whoever 557 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: about personal safety, and we have several different seminars that 558 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: we offer at the Foundation for that. And we also 559 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: provide information about the Kelsey Smith Act, which was a 560 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: law that was inspired by Kelsey started in Kansas, which 561 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: allows law enforcement to gain quick access to location information 562 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: only of a cell phone if the person has been 563 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: determined to be missing or in danger a physical harm 564 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: of death by law enforcement. The key to that is 565 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: the night that Kelsey went missing, we were on the 566 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: phone constantly with her cell phone provider trying to find 567 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: out if they could tell us where her phone was at, 568 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: and they kept saying that they could not let us 569 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: know because she was eighteen years old. Despite the fact 570 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 1: that the phone was actually in Missy's name, my wife's name, 571 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: they still would not give us that information. That legal 572 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,879 Speaker 1: procedures were initiated to get that information, but it took 573 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: three days to get it in and by the time 574 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: by the time law enforcement got that information, it was 575 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: late at night. They couldn't go out to the area 576 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: and so they had to wait till the next morning. 577 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,760 Speaker 1: They went out to the tower that last made contact 578 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: with Kelsie's phone and found her body within forty five minutes. 579 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: So no Greg. And that is why you've got to 580 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: have five my iPhone activated, your tracking device on your 581 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,320 Speaker 1: phone activated. We have life three sixty. There's a million 582 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: ways to stay safe and please at Tom then Nancy 583 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 1: Gray time story, signing off, Goodbye,