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Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

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Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice

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Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,

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Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.

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Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists. This week we're going to

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Speaker 2: check in on our guests from season two to hear

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Speaker 2: how they're doing a year later.

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Speaker 1: First, a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.

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Speaker 1: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is

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Speaker 1: not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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Speaker 1: In the sessions you'll hear, all names have been changed

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Speaker 1: for the privacy of our guests.

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Speaker 2: So today we're catching up with Melissa, and her episode

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Speaker 2: was called Melissa's Stifled Emotions. When we spoke to her

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Speaker 2: a year ago, she described that she would get overwhelmed

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Speaker 2: when her kids had a meltdown and got loud, and

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Speaker 2: that noise made her really shut down and be unable

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Speaker 2: to be there for her kids in a moment, to

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Speaker 2: read assure them, or to validate them, or to help

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Speaker 2: them manage their emotions because she was so overwhelmed. She

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Speaker 2: also had a history of trauma, and she wasn't making

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Speaker 2: the connection between her reaction to intense feelings and noise

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Speaker 2: and how she freezes and associates in the moment. We

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Speaker 2: also suggested that her husband, who she said was on

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Speaker 2: the autism spectrum, might be expressing his love for her

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Speaker 2: in ways she might be missing, and that while she

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Speaker 2: wished to be emotionally closer to him, she maintains an

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Speaker 2: emotional distance from him too. So let's get a reminder

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Speaker 2: of how that session went.

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Speaker 3: It's funny because he's way more expressive in terms of

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Speaker 3: saying he loves me, like I have a hard time

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Speaker 3: saying I love you back. You know. I think it's

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Speaker 3: easier in hindsight, but many times it is in a

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Speaker 3: moment but I'm frozen, or because I feel like almost

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Speaker 3: a repulsion to the child, like just get away from me,

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Speaker 3: just go away, leave me alone.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to deo therapists. We'll be back after a

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Speaker 2: short break.

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Speaker 4: So let's hear what's going on with Melissa.

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Speaker 3: Now, Hey, Laurian, guys, it's been a whole year, and

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Speaker 3: I think I've gained a lot since the last time

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Speaker 3: we had spoken. The first thing you had me do

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Speaker 3: was to notice in my relationship with my husband when

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Speaker 3: love is coming towards me, to be aware of it

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Speaker 3: and to notice it. And I think I've been much

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Speaker 3: more aware of the things that he does and I

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Speaker 3: translate them as love. And even if he doesn't say

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Speaker 3: the right words with it, and even if he doesn't

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Speaker 3: do the eye contact and the things that I really want,

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Speaker 3: I recognize it as love. And I also noticed that

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Speaker 3: I do that with connection. The truth is, I think

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Speaker 3: I wasn't aware that people aren't connecting with me, and

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Speaker 3: I just haven't been noticing. A definitely added to my

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Speaker 3: life this past year. My father died suddenly, and I

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Speaker 3: think I had to just reevaluate the love that he

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Speaker 3: had for me. He had aspergers, and you know, just

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Speaker 3: like my husband, he's more limited on what he can

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Speaker 3: say and express. And yeah, it's definitely been a year

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Speaker 3: with relationship to my children, who had asked me to

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Speaker 3: not try to comfort them in the moment because it

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Speaker 3: was too overwhelming to kind of come back to them

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Speaker 3: when they calm down and talk about their feelings. And

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Speaker 3: I've honestly, really really really struggled with it. Not because

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Speaker 3: I don't want to be there for them just because

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Speaker 3: it's extremely overwhelming. It's highly triggering for me, I realized,

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Speaker 3: because I have so many repressed emotions myself, like or

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Speaker 3: that I was never allowed to show, and when they

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Speaker 3: show it, it's you know, alarming, overwhelming, feels wrong. So

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Speaker 3: I still struggle a lot emotionally validating my children. I

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Speaker 3: have been seeing a therapists regularly, pretty intense work. We're

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Speaker 3: doing for almost a year now. We're healing my attachment

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Speaker 3: trauma and learning my patterns, my avoidance. I feel it's

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Speaker 3: allowing me to be more emotionally present to myself. I

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Speaker 3: think that is key, being able to feel my emotions

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Speaker 3: because I didn't allow myself to do so for so long.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't safe. So I've gained a tremendous amount of

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Speaker 3: awareness of done a bunch of healing modalities, a lot

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Speaker 3: of mindfulness courses, healing retreats. I've even dabbled in psychedelics.

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Speaker 3: I tried ayahuasca to help me yeah clarity, but I

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Speaker 3: think the answer really lies in me. So I'm working

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Speaker 3: on things, and I wanted to thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for your guidance. I still reflect upon much often, and

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Speaker 3: I hope to continue working on things.

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Speaker 1: First of all, our condolences to Melissa on the death

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Speaker 1: of her father. It sounds like it's been a really

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Speaker 1: challenging time for her, and at the same time, it

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Speaker 1: sounds like it's been a really healing time for her.

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Speaker 1: I love how she is very aware of this lack

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Speaker 1: of connection that she has been feeling and her own

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Speaker 1: role in that in terms of her inability to take

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Speaker 1: in the connection and her own fears of getting close

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Speaker 1: to people rooted in that trauma that she experienced growing up.

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Speaker 1: And I think when she taught about the difficulty that

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Speaker 1: she's still having with her children, it's very hard for

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Speaker 1: people who have had significant trauma, like Melissa has to

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Speaker 1: self regulate, and you need to regulate yourself before you

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Speaker 1: can be there to help your children self regulate, and

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Speaker 1: so it's still hard for her to be emotionally present

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Speaker 1: with them. And I remember her relationship with anger was

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Speaker 1: that when she was growing up, she was not only

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Speaker 1: unable to express anger, but her parents would have these

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Speaker 1: extreme reactions where they would grab her from behind and

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Speaker 1: yell at her, and.

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Speaker 4: It was so frightening.

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Speaker 1: So I can see why those big feelings those intense

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Speaker 1: feelings that other people have are very triggering for her still.

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Speaker 1: But it's great that she's working on all this in

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Speaker 1: therapy and is becoming really aware of those connections.

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Speaker 2: Now I agree, and this is what it looks like

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Speaker 2: when somebody is really really working on themselves. And that's

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Speaker 2: theresion I had a year ago, and that's the impression

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Speaker 2: I still have today. This is a woman who is

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Speaker 2: determined to work on herself and to improve. She's really

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Speaker 2: willing to try so many things, the healing retreats, the psychedelics,

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Speaker 2: so many different approaches to try and get herself to grow.

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Speaker 2: And I really applaud that, and I applaud her motivation.

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Speaker 2: It's the thing that comes across so strongly from her.

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Speaker 2: The one thing that she's really struggling with still is

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Speaker 2: being there for her kids when they are loud and emotional.

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Speaker 2: It still disregulates her, It triggers her, it floods her,

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Speaker 2: and she has a very hard time being there for them.

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Speaker 2: One thing I would like to suggest, Melissa, if you're listening,

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Speaker 2: is to do it in stages. Perhaps one thing you

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Speaker 2: can do once you're calm is to tape a voice

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Speaker 2: message to your kids about what you would have said

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Speaker 2: in that moment, and then you can play that for them,

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Speaker 2: and that might be easier for you, And when that

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Speaker 2: gets more comfortable than you might want to consider doing

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Speaker 2: that face to face, or maybe even doing it in

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Speaker 2: writing and reading it to them, but doing it in

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Speaker 2: a way that you can slowly manage the big emotions

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Speaker 2: and the triggering and the flooding that happens to you

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Speaker 2: in that moment, but still try to be there for them,

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Speaker 2: even if it's in a delay, even if it's in

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Speaker 2: a voice message.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a great idea, guy, And I also

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Speaker 1: thinking about how it's very confusing for kids when their

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Speaker 1: parents can't respond to their feelings, and sometimes transparency helps

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Speaker 1: them to feel less alone in their feelings. So when

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Speaker 1: Melissa was talking about working on her feelings and therapy,

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Speaker 1: I think what she's really talking about is making friends

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Speaker 1: with her feelings. That she has always thought that feelings

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Speaker 1: are the enemy, because when she was growing up, when

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Speaker 1: there were big feelings, it led to abuse, and she

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Speaker 1: gets very very triggered immediately by that. I wonder, when

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Speaker 1: the kids are, you know, the ones who are old enough,

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Speaker 1: if she could say to them, you know, I'm really

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Speaker 1: working on what I do when I have.

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Speaker 4: Big feelings and when you have big feelings.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I have big feelings too, and sometimes I need

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Speaker 1: to take a minute and take some breaths. And I

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Speaker 1: wonder if that's something we can do together. Maybe we

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Speaker 1: can all take some breaths together, just so that they know, Hey,

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Speaker 1: mom's having some big feelings too, but she's working on that.

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Speaker 1: She knows that there's something she can do with them.

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Speaker 2: I love that, and I think it's such an important

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Speaker 2: message because if she can share with her kids the

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Speaker 2: fact that, yes, I struggle with these things and I'm

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Speaker 2: working on myself in order to get better at them,

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Speaker 2: and this is true for life kids. When you struggle

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Speaker 2: with certain things and you identify that, then you also

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Speaker 2: can start working to improve those things. I think it's

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Speaker 2: such a great message.

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Speaker 1: And the message that they get when she does this

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Speaker 1: is feelings are okay. All feelings are okay. How we

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Speaker 1: manage them is what we need to work on. So

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Speaker 1: you can be angry, how do we talk about that?

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Speaker 1: You can feel sad? How do we talk about that?

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Speaker 1: You can feel anxious? How do we talk about that?

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Speaker 1: So all the feelings are okay? But as I'm learning

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Speaker 1: how to deal with my feelings, I want to help

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Speaker 1: you learn how to do that too. This is something

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Speaker 1: that we all need to learn how to do in life,

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Speaker 1: is we're all going to have feelings and then what

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Speaker 1: do we do with that?

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Speaker 2: And for Melissa specifically and her husband and her kids,

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Speaker 2: if that is a discussion they can have as a

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Speaker 2: family and a project that they can have as a family,

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Speaker 2: that would be amazing because it's something I think they

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Speaker 2: would all benefit from. Next week, a woman with a

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Speaker 2: difficult mother wonders if there's a way to interact with

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Speaker 2: her that wonet caused so much pain.

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Speaker 5: She was saying that she'd always trying to be a

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Speaker 5: good mother.

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Speaker 3: I felt very poked.

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Speaker 5: She kept poking at it, and she'd talk quite defensively

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Speaker 5: about why she can have done better what was going

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Speaker 5: on for her at the time.

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