1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 2: Man, welcome back to Coast to Coast. George Noory with you, 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 2: Doug Noel with us. His book is called De Escalate. Doug, 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: where would you put road rage in this category? 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 3: I would put road rage in a pretty high highly 6 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 3: escalated state. People with the road rage are really mad 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 3: and as we know, can resort to violence if they're 8 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 3: if they lose control. 9 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: Can you calm them down in ninety seconds or less? 10 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: You can? 11 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 3: Although I always I teach my students and my clients 12 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 3: if you're if you're facing incipient violence, run, I mean, 13 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 3: you've got to be skilled in dealing with violence, to 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 3: confront situations where there is potential violence. And in the 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 3: Prison of Peace Project, for example, when we were training 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 3: our students who are incarcerated how to be peacemakers and 17 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 3: medias using these skills, we always told them, if there's 18 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 3: any chance of violence, get out of there. It's not 19 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 3: worth it. But if it's not in sippy advantage, you're 20 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 3: just dealing with somebody who's really angry and upset and 21 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 3: they're screaming, yelling and cussing, then what I teach is 22 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 3: very very effective and will literally calm somebody down in 23 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 3: nine seconds or less. 24 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: Do law enforcement officers go through this kind. 25 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 4: Of training, unfortunately. Know. 26 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 3: I've talked to a lot of law enforcement agencies over 27 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 3: the years, and there's a thing called post Police Officers 28 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 3: Standard Training, and then most of post standards, including California, 29 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 3: de escalation training is at the top of the list, 30 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 3: but they don't teach it. They're much more interested in 31 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 3: teaching how to restrain people, how to protect officers from violence, 32 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 3: than they are in teaching officers how to de escalate 33 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 3: angry situations. And that's unfortunate because we could probably prevent 34 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 3: a lot of use of forest cases on the use 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 3: of force cases could probably be solved if officers had 36 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 3: these skills. It's unfortunate, but that's okay. This is a 37 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 3: new idea hasn't been out for a long time, less 38 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 3: than twenty years, and so it just takes time for 39 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 3: it to sink into the people's consciousness on how. 40 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 4: To do this. 41 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: Do these techniques work in arguments as well? 42 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 3: They work in any situation where there's strong emotions, So 43 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: you could have arguments, you could have fights, you could 44 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 3: have yelling and screaming difficult conversations. You could be a 45 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 3: leader in a room, leading in a team meeting, and 46 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 3: somebody says something that's inappropriate or gets angry, and the skill, 47 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 3: the skill works perfectly in those situations. And the beauty 48 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 3: of it, George, is that because our brains are hardwired 49 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 3: to calm down with this technique. That's what the brain 50 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 3: scanning studies show is that it works on any human being. 51 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: Any human brain that can that can still process words, 52 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: we'll be able to calm down. It's just absolutely amazing 53 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 3: to watch it happen. 54 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 4: Doug. 55 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 2: It's my perception that something has happened to human dialogue nowadays. Yes, 56 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: in the old days, you could argue with somebody about 57 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: just about anything and have a conversation about it. Now 58 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 2: you can't. It's almost like a fight every time. What happened, 59 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 2: that's a great question, George. I think what happened was 60 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: that it really started. It started a long time ago, 61 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: back in the probably in the seventies and eighties, but 62 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: it really really. 63 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 4: Started steamroll with. 64 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 3: Newt Gingrich and his people in the nineties, where they 65 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 3: started recognizing that the only way they can get votes 66 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 3: is to want either scare people or get people really angry, 67 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 3: and that's what started all and since that time, the 68 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 3: anger and the polarization has been amplified because we have 69 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 3: this thing now called social media that didn't exist twenty 70 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: years ago, and social media amplifies and the algorithms all 71 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 3: build and amplify fear and anger and rage because that's 72 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 3: where they get the eyeballs, and the eyeballs are where 73 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 3: the ad dollars are. So you don't see, peace doesn't sell, 74 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 3: it never has and it certainly doesn't sell on social media. 75 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 3: But what does sell anger, rage, polarization, name calling, cussing 76 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 3: people out, you know, being outrageous, because that's where the 77 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 3: eyeballs are. And then you layer onto that the fact 78 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 3: that the our youngest people, especially youngest adults, have been 79 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 3: raised on smartphones with texting, and they've lost the ability 80 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 3: to do exactly what you were talking about, sit down 81 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 3: and have a civil conversation about radically different beliefs or values. 82 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 3: And we've lost that ability because because they learned how 83 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 3: to text, and texting divorces you from the ability to 84 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 3: be able to read body language and listen to people 85 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: and slow down and really hear what another person has 86 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 3: to say, so all of this has led to where 87 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 3: we are today, which is this extreme polarization and inability 88 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 3: to listen to each other. 89 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: How much of this is parental responsibility? 90 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 3: Well, that's a great question. I think I'm going to 91 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: say it's a lot. There's a lot of responsibility here 92 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 3: you can lay on parents. But also I have to 93 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 3: say that parents are ignorant. They only know what they know. 94 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 3: So for example, how many times, and for anybody in 95 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 3: the artists audience listening to this, think about when you 96 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,679 Speaker 3: were growing up, when you got hurt, you skin your knee, 97 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 3: you're outside running around, you fall down, you skin your knee, 98 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 3: you start to cry, and you're only two or three 99 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 3: years old. 100 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 4: And what are you told. 101 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 3: You're told if you're if you're a little boy, say 102 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: man up, don't cry, rub dirt in, it doesn't hurt. 103 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 3: If you're a little girl, you said, put on your 104 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 3: big girl panties, don't be a drama queen. These statements 105 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 3: are emotionally invalidating, and what they teach children is that 106 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 3: emotions are bad, emotions are evil, emotions are wrong, and 107 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: to feel emotion is to be less than human. And 108 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 3: parents do this because it was what they were taught 109 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 3: by their parents. But more importantly, the reason that human 110 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 3: beings engage in this sort of behavior is because they're 111 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 3: trying to soothe their own unconscious anxiety around another person's upset. 112 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 3: So when you see a little child who's crying and 113 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 3: you don't know how to manage your own emotions your brain, 114 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 3: and it's going to become anxious, and you will do 115 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 3: anything you can to get rid. 116 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 4: Of that anxiety. So what do you do. 117 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 3: You tell the kid to stop crying, stop feeling that way, 118 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 3: so that I can feel better about myself. 119 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: See, I would have a mother who God lovers. She's 120 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: going to be ninety six next week. 121 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 4: Doug for her. 122 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: She would pick me up, take me home, patch me up, 123 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: give me a little kiss on the knee that was 124 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: Ralph scraped up, and send me on my way. 125 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 3: Good for you, and good for her. You know, we're 126 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 3: probably about the same age. My mom passed away the 127 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: last fall at ninety six. 128 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. 129 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 4: Now, It's okay. 130 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 3: She had a great life and you know it was 131 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 3: an amazing process. So and good for you and good 132 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 3: for her. But I don't think that is always the 133 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 3: most common experience and I don't think it's the most 134 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 3: common experience that people have today. I talked to parents 135 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 3: all the time about this, and they're a standard to 136 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 3: learn that the most powerful thing they can do for 137 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 3: their children is listen to their emotions. 138 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 4: Listen to a. 139 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 3: Child's emotions and reflect those emotions. So when a child 140 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: is happy, say you're really happy, or when they're really sad, 141 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 3: you say you're really sad, or are you really upset? 142 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: Or you're hurt, or you're scared or you're frightened. Just 143 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 3: telling children what they're feeling helps the emotional processes in 144 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 3: their brain develop, so they develop some emotional maturity as 145 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 3: they grow. And when you emotionally invalidate a child by 146 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 3: saying don't cry, don't be a drama queen, oh you'll 147 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 3: give over, don't make am out and out of emoihill, 148 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 3: you are literally shutting down the emotional development. 149 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 4: Of that child. 150 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 3: And so I think part of the problem we have 151 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 3: today is so many people have been invalidated that they 152 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 3: are not emotionally connected to themselves, and so when they 153 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 3: get into an emotionally intense situation, they get triggered and 154 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 3: then get highly reactive because they don't have any other 155 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 3: skills to help them work through the emotional moment. And 156 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 3: my goal in life is to change all that. 157 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: Of course, as somebody with a mediator experience, how would 158 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: you handle situations between Russia and Ukraine, Israel and Hamas? 159 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: What would you do. 160 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 4: Well? I think that. 161 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 3: Those are extraordinarily complex problems. And I'm not sure that 162 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 3: in those situations who we're dealing with, uh, we're dealing 163 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 3: with conflicts that are being driven by overtly strong emotions. 164 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 3: I think it's much more complex. For Putin, for example, 165 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 3: his the driver that he wants, he wants a new 166 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 3: he wants a neutered neutral benign Ukraine that has is 167 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 3: not being armed, is basically a buffer between the West 168 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 3: and the Russian border, and he wants any any He 169 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 3: wants to make sure that Russia is protected from an 170 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: invasion from the West through Ukraine. So he is he 171 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 3: has no interest in being de escalated. And I would 172 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 3: say that if you were a prutent advisor and Putin 173 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 3: did displayed anger, displayed upset, that maybe de escalating him 174 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 3: and calming him down so that you could have a 175 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 3: more clarifying conversation, do some more problem solving, might be useful. 176 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 3: But I don't think that in the grand scheme of 177 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 3: things being able de escalating a conflict like the Russian 178 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 3: Ukrainian situation is going to be that the concept that 179 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: I teach, which is interpersonal de escalation, is going to 180 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 3: be effective. Same thing we were talking earlier, and I 181 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 3: heard the report about Israel thinking about bombing Iran and 182 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 3: Iran sitting, I was thinking that the United States is weak, 183 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 3: and I mean, these are all perceptions that are totally wrong, 184 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 3: but I don't think they're amenable to unless there's interpersonal 185 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 3: emotion that's involved. The kind of stuff that I teach 186 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 3: is much more granular and micro and may or may 187 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 3: not be of assistant but probably not. 188 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 2: Using your techniques for de escalate and elusive peace. Could 189 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 2: we really have peace with Russia? Could we really have 190 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 2: peace with China? 191 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 3: Well, I guess it depends on how you define peace, 192 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 3: pieces of word that has a lot of different meanings. 193 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 3: Can we can we have a peace with Russia, peace 194 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 3: in the sense that there isn't war like what's going 195 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 3: on with Ukraini right now? Yes, but the only way 196 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 3: that in my opinion, people like Putin only respond to aggressive, 197 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 3: aggressive behavior and The worst thing we can do is 198 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 3: not arm Ukraine. If we want to stop Putin and 199 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 3: get him out of Ukraine, Ukraine has to be armed 200 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 3: to be able to defend itself. Putin will respond to that. 201 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 3: He responds to strength, he doesn't respond to weakness. With 202 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 3: respect to China, this is a problem that goes back 203 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 3: for thousands of years. The Chinese for centuries have always 204 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 3: felt inferior to the West. Partly that's due to colonialism 205 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 3: and the way the West treated Asia or centuries and 206 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 3: it so it always has felt that it's the step 207 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 3: sister in global affairs and has always tried to assert 208 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 3: itself to be to gain dominance. It doesn't want military dominance, 209 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 3: it wants economic and cultural and social dominance. So that's 210 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 3: a completely different problem than the Putin you know, Russian 211 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 3: Ukrainian problem. Can you have peace with these countries, Yes, 212 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 3: you can, but it's it's always dynamic. It's going to 213 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 3: change from year to year to year, it's going to 214 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 3: change from decade to decade, and there's no one answer 215 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 3: that's going to say, oh, we're going to have peace 216 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 3: in the world's it's it's going to be a constant 217 00:12:54,040 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 3: challenge for diplomats and for political operators to keep everything 218 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 3: in balance, in some sort of balance, so that we 219 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 3: don't have violence breaking out in the sense of war, 220 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 3: for example, invading Taiwan or in the Russia's case, invading Thailan, 221 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 3: Ukraine or Poland or the Baltic States. So that's the challenge, 222 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: and I don't frankly, I just don't think that our 223 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 3: politicians the days quite understand that it's a dynamic balance 224 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 3: where you never have peace. It's always something changing all 225 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 3: the time. 226 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 2: Somebody like Hitler, doug what was wrong with the guy? 227 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 4: What did he want? 228 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: He was a demagogue and he came to power when 229 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 3: the West crushed Germany after World War One, crushed Germany economically. 230 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 3: He was a demagogue who was able to convince people 231 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 3: that the Teutonic image of the White Area nation was. 232 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 4: The right of the German people. 233 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 3: And then he escaped go to the course the Jews, and 234 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 3: that led to the led to the Holocaust. And what 235 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 3: he wanted was an Aryan, an Aryan nation dominating the world. 236 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 2: Was he insane in your opinion? 237 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 4: I don't know. 238 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 3: I don't know how you would define insane. I would 239 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 3: say that he was a probably a meglomaniac. Yeah, obviously. 240 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 3: But and here's a guy who also believed that violence 241 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 3: was was was the path to redemption. There's a really 242 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 3: interesting theory called the myth of redemptive violence. And I'll 243 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 3: just give you a quick example and it kind of 244 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 3: explains a lot of this stuff. So you remember when 245 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 3: you were a kid, we're about the same age when 246 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 3: pop By the Sailor. Remember Popeye the Sailor and olive 247 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 3: oil and an olive oil. Okay, so let me tell 248 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 3: you there you go. So remember the plot situation. Popeye's 249 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 3: walking down the street with olive oil and they're just 250 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 3: happy as a clam and all of a sudden, Bluto 251 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 3: shows up and he absconds with olive oil, which is 252 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 3: really it was really sort of a it was a rape, 253 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 3: but not quite that obvious on children's cartoons in the 254 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 3: nineteen fifties. And olive oil is taken away, screaming and yelling, 255 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 3: Popeye comes chasing after Blueto. He gets the snot beat 256 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 3: out of him by Bluto. And then when he's an extremists, 257 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 3: this magical spinach pops out from his arms and he 258 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 3: ingests the spinach and he gets this superpower, and then 259 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 3: he kicks the snut out of Blueto rescues Olive Oil 260 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: and they walk off happily ever after into the sunset. 261 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 3: And that is the myth of redemptive boness. If you 262 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 3: remember all the old Bruce Willis movies, a diary movies 263 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 3: exactly the same storyline. 264 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 4: What the idea is is that. 265 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 3: When we are confronted with violence, we meet violence with 266 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 3: even more bonets because we get a certain satisfaction out 267 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 3: of beating up the good guy, even though we leave 268 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 3: just massive destruction. 269 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 4: In our wake. 270 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 3: And so with Popeye, so one, how come Olive Oil 271 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 3: is such a victim? How comes she can't defend herself 272 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 3: against this guy every single week when he comes into 273 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 3: her presence? And why does Popeye wait to have a 274 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 3: snot kicked out of him before he eats the spinish? 275 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 3: Why doesn't when he see Blue that eat the spinish 276 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 3: and tell Blue to go take a walk? 277 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 4: And what do we do with Blue? Though? 278 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 3: Why can't we get this guy into therapy or something. 279 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: Made a great cartoon? 280 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 3: That's why exactly because it's the plot the myth of 281 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 3: redempti violence, the idea that when there's redemptive violence, the 282 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 3: good guy comes in and beats up the bad guy. 283 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 3: There's a certain feeling of satisfaction the week. 284 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: At Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight 285 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: at one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to 286 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: coastam dot com for more