1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,880 Speaker 1: Well, I've got to tell you, guys, some of the 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: classic episodes we have coming up are weirdly preciot. This 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: one is, uh, this one's a deep cut about alternative 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: history because mattell as as you guys, remember, some people 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: don't think the Middle Ages happen. No, they don't. They 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: subscribe to a theory that is known as phantom time, 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about it in this episode. 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about what if the year is not 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: one right now? And you know, also depending on what 10 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: calendar you subscribe to, it may or may not be 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: so here it is alternative history and you from UFOs 12 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: two ghosts and government cover ups histories really with unexplained events. 13 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn the stuff they 14 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: don't want you to now, everybody, welcome to the show 15 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: on Matt and I'm bed and today we're gonna look 16 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: at the story of history and the changes inside and 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: of course the stuff they don't want you to know. Matt, 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: I started out when we were working on this podcast beforehand, 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: I started out wanting to have a quotation about history. 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: We've mentioned the Faulkner quotation at nauseum. Uh. You know, 21 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: Bob Dylan said the times they are changing. And that's 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: a pretty good one because as we're going to see, 23 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: history changes as often as the present apparently. Um. But 24 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: out of all those quotations um as side of one 25 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: of the best things that I could do, at least 26 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: is just start off with the most basic thing a 27 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: definition of history. History the study of past events, usually 28 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: human events, right, that's what we usually mean, and the 29 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: branch of knowledge dealing with this. Um. People being an 30 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: inherently self interested beecies have always been interested in the past, 31 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: the stories about ourselves. Yeah, we're storytellers because we're the 32 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: only animals that record in any way the things that 33 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: happened previously to us. Yeah, well we're the only ones 34 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 1: proven to do so. Yes, absolutely, because you know, as 35 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: we find the first histories were oral histories, right. The 36 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: just told I would if I was a person way 37 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: back in the day and something really interesting happening and 38 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: to me involving a caribou and a broken spear or something, 39 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: I would want to express that to my friends because 40 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: I thought it was a really fun and cool thing 41 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: that happened, So I just tell them or yeah, or 42 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: there could also be a song and in that song 43 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: someone has the lineage from which they derive, you know, 44 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: oh yeah, or a tale of gods and creation. Yeah, exactly. 45 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: And a lot of these things were mythical, right, they 46 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: were instructional things of one way or another. In some cases, 47 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: very very old histories contain uh values of a culture, right, 48 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: and history often back at this point in time, when 49 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: it was a world tradition, was one gigantic game of telephone. Now, 50 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: for our younger listeners, let's go ahead and say with 51 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: the game of telephone is okay? So the game of 52 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: telephone would be if there are a bunch of us 53 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: sitting in a circle, and we started with, let's say myself, 54 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: I told small story, maybe even just a sentence or two, 55 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: and then I would whisper it in the ear of 56 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: the person to my let's say left, and then that 57 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: would continue around until it got back to me, perhaps 58 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: a person sitting to my right. And then whatever that 59 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: person they would have to recite whatever it is that 60 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: they heard, and the change that occurs as it goes 61 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: around the circle. That is the game of telephone. Right, Yeah, 62 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: nobody really wins the game of telephone. Often too. I 63 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: suspected that there were people throwing a wrench in there 64 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: and purposefully saying something completely different. We're trying to make 65 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: it dirty. Yeah, isn't it weird that we just explained 66 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: telephone and there might actually be someone listening that had 67 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: never heard of that before. Uh, you know, I bet 68 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: it could happened. But I want to be honest. I 69 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: was one of those guys who had you know, when 70 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: I was in first or second grade. I would totally 71 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: switch up yeah, oh yeah, and then look to my 72 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: left and right when when they revealed the wrong message 73 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: classic bowling. I learned a lot. I've become a little 74 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: bit of a better person that. But the game of 75 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: the game of telephone is um instructive. It's a good 76 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: framework for us to look at the history of history, 77 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: as you said, right. So, uh, one thing that became 78 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: known as the first critical work of history that was 79 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: written down was called, in a burst of creativity, the 80 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: histories is by this uh this cat and herodotus. Right. Uh. Well, 81 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: here's the thing. It's full of errors, right, but it's 82 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: it's better than nothing. And this whole thing about stories 83 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: being full of errors, rife with exaggerations, outright fabrications and 84 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: everything that was the rule instead of the exception for 85 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: a very very very very very long time. Well, yeah, 86 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: the people writing these histories were a lot of time 87 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: very closely knit to the power structures at the time, 88 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: no matter what kind of power structure you have. So 89 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot of times an attempt to make that 90 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: guy or that group look maybe a little better than 91 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: yeah they actually were, or or a little bit worse. 92 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: So exactly, that's why, that's why we get all these strange, 93 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: outlandish stories that seem to make no sense at the time, right. Uh. 94 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: For instance, the old canard that Napoleon was a really 95 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: short dude. No, there were slightly different measurings, sims. But 96 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: also is a little bit of propaganda. Yeah he's fairly short, 97 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: but you know, it's like within average height for that time. Um. 98 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: Or the lurid tales semi pornographic tales that some um 99 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: European writers would spin about the New World and they 100 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: would say, oh, yeah, hey, ladies love me in South America, 101 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: which isn't really true because as we know they were, 102 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: they were not there too. Uh, they were not there 103 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: to be friendly. So yeah. So so basically, a lot 104 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: of times we think of history as just this this 105 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: known thing that occurred or known set of things that occurred, 106 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: and that's just how it is. That's what happened on 107 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: that date. Now we know, but we we find more 108 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: and more that it's more of this weird amorphous conversation 109 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: of of events that just continues. And you can history 110 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: gets changed past long long ago. Past history gets changed 111 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: all the time even now. Yeah, like that thing that's 112 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: happened recently about whether the brontosaurus is a dinosaur. That's 113 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: a tough one for me, touch of one. I know, man, 114 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: I know, but but I love that. I love that 115 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: you make that comparison, because, yeah, different voices constantly interrupting 116 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: each other, and anything, no, while not anything, but virtually 117 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: anything could be up for grabs if evidence that contradicts 118 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: our accepted view comes in. And this is not, by 119 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: any means a new thing, and it's not, by any 120 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: means an outdated practice. Listeners, I assure you, regardless of 121 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: what country you are, in your country's history textbooks are 122 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: in in disagreement with at least several other countries textbooks. 123 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: That's not that's just the nature of the world. North 124 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: Korea's account of the Korean War is going to be 125 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: way way different it UH in comparison to even the 126 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: Republic of Korea or the United States, of course, especially 127 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: if you look at big events like wars like World 128 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: War Two. The differences in Oh my god, you were 129 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: you were saying something a while ago about Japan and China. 130 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: He had an earlier conversation. Their accounts World War Two 131 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: are hugely different, right, and create political tensions today are 132 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: used as an outlet for political tensions. Of course, it's 133 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: no surprise to anyone that Middle Eastern textbooks UH disagree 134 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: on quite a few things. And I don't mean just 135 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: the status of countries like Israel, or the role of 136 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: the Europe or the United States and colonization and UH 137 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: overthrowing governments, but also religious matters Shia, Sunni and so on. 138 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 1: But I I don't have the means currently to read 139 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: textbooks UM that are written in Arabic anything. But I'd 140 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: love to see the I guess the history of the 141 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: Crusades in that time. I'd love to see you with 142 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: the other what the other side of that story says? Yeah, 143 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: and UH Russian UH textbooks also would have a difference 144 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: in comparison to the rest of Europe. So so even now, 145 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: even now, What we're saying is that historians across the 146 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: world or countries across the world don't agree with each 147 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: other about what actually happened and why we are where 148 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: we are today. This leads us to the evolution of 149 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: historical studies or the big question is this revisionist history 150 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: we're talking about or is it pseudo history? Pseudo history? 151 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: Is that is that completely made up? Is that what 152 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: pseudo is implying? Well, it's a yeah, pseudo is implying 153 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: that it is history, that it's a tall ta all disguised, 154 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: This history made by people with an agenda or with 155 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: a pre existing conclusion. Right, all right, so we saw 156 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: a pseudo, We've seen pseudo history. Uh. Maybe one of 157 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: the easiest examples, which we've used before is in the 158 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: early European explorers of the African continent when they would say, oh, well, 159 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: here's the ruins of this great empire. I guess obviously 160 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: there was some white people living here at some point, 161 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: which is which just shows that even if it flies 162 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: in the face of all evidence, some people will never 163 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: sacrifice their pet theory for the facts. But then the 164 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: idea of revisionist history is a little bit different. Let's 165 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: get into that, all right. We've kind of talked about 166 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: the history of changing history already. Um, but it really 167 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: goes back to the to these ancient Greek and Roman scholars. 168 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: It you're looking at Plutarch and uh Tacitus and really 169 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: people have been editing history. Again, it's kind of what 170 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: we've been talking about. But but modern historical revision this 171 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: thing that we call historical revision that didn't originate until 172 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: the twentieth century and really was after the first major 173 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: global military conflicts, so World War One obviously, so that's 174 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: when there were multiple groups who wanted history to reflect 175 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: a certain you know story, right. Yeah, this is where 176 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: we start dealing with something you'll hear about often in 177 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: pr propaganda today, and that's the concept of narrative. So 178 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: how would we depict this conflict decades later? Right for 179 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: the children of the survivors? How did countries become involved 180 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: in the war contribute to it? Um. As they were 181 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: starting to twiddle their fingers at the fringes of this 182 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: Gordian not historians realized that it was possible to be 183 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: objective because even deciding what you should leave out or 184 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: put in becomes itself inherently subjective. Right, So we know 185 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: that historical revisionism has to occur because a researcher can 186 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: find a glaring inconsistency or something that's totally wrong. Because 187 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: let us not forget that for centuries people were writing 188 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: pretty much fictitious stuff and it was quoted as fact. So, 189 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: for instance, we mentioned a lot of things about US 190 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: history that are often misunderstood. Um, here's one, you know, 191 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: George Washington and cherry tree, pretty hard concrete data that 192 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: he did not chopped down a cherry tree and say 193 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: he couldn't tell a lie. It's a fun story. It's 194 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 1: a little bit weird that it's about. It's a it's 195 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: a lie about a guy being honest. You know, it 196 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: seems legendary. Yeah, that's a nice little Matroshka doll. Right, 197 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: But so okay, So here's the biggest thing for me, 198 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: history is it's just complicated. It's super complicated because everybody's 199 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: identity is connected up to their history, back to our 200 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: oral history days, right exactly. And you know, nobody wants 201 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: to look terrible. Everyone has a reputation and that goes 202 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: that goes out to from the individual person to a 203 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: group of people to an entire state and the way 204 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: you feel about this group or state that you're a 205 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: part of, and nobody wants to be made a fool 206 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: or look bad or look like the evil bad guy. 207 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: Yeah and UH. Because of this, it can be tough 208 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: to navigate things. Going back to our example about China 209 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: and Japan. UH, the the huge argument about comfort women, right, 210 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: remember that one. Yeah, and that is UH. That deals 211 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: with the horrendous activities of the Appanese Imperial Army during 212 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: its invasion occupation of Manchuria and other parts of China. Now, 213 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: are we saying that those were bad guys totally? Are 214 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: we saying that there were good guys in war? No, 215 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if you can. I don't know if 216 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: you can say they're they're clear cut good guys, are 217 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: good entities in the war. But what we can say 218 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: is that even now, the status of what happened to 219 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: these women is a very hot button issue. And in 220 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: um Japan, some politicians leverage this. You could say their cynical, 221 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: or you could say they really believe it, but they 222 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: leverage this because they don't want it to be a 223 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: a loss of face for the army or humiliating for 224 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: the people that are regarded often as heroes, you know 225 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: what I mean. So you have to be very careful 226 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: how you look at that. And historical revisionism usually does 227 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: a couple of different things, um or it has I 228 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: guess lenses we could think about. So it has a 229 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: social or theoretical perspective to re examine the past through 230 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: a different framework. So Howard Zinn's People's History of the 231 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: United States, Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Um people. One 232 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: of the criticisms I've heard before is that Howard zen 233 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: has an agendas, which my answer is he clearly as 234 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: an agenda. Right. There's also a fact checking perspective that 235 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: that you can take to try and make corrections on 236 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: some of the errors that have been laid into history. Sure, yeah, uh. 237 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: And then there's also uh going back to that negative 238 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: perspective and the people who say, hey, it's not broke, 239 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: don't fix it. Why are you digging into all these 240 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: records about you know, Unit one or whatever. Why do 241 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: you why do you care, uh, what the United States 242 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: may or may not have on with Nazi scientists after 243 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: the war. Why are you trying to push your I 244 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: don't know, would be in that case your anti Nazi agenda, um, 245 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: you know, your anti Catholic agenda. If you say that 246 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: they had ratlines helping people escape, that is that's an 247 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: interesting perspective to me. The idea of going back through 248 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: another country's history to try and dig up dirt on them, 249 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: I don't I don't often think about that unless I'm 250 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: thinking of from a spy perspective or an intelligence perspective. Well, 251 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: there's it's great that you say that, because the historical revisionism, 252 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: or the the attempts to change the past through perpurgation 253 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: that occur in things like four or in some instances 254 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: in the days of the s s R. These are 255 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: things that can really happen and can intentionally occur four. 256 00:16:54,680 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: Of course it is fiction. But recently uh an event 257 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: in China, the anniversary of the a Tenement Square incidents, 258 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: showed us that historical revisionism in the negative sense is 259 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: alive and well. And then our video one of our 260 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: videos recently, you did that orwell quote that he who 261 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: controls the president controls the past, You controls the past, 262 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: controls the future, and it's scary because that's true. Funny story. Well, okay, 263 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: so to sew that up. Those are the three ways 264 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: in which historical revisionists can approach existing history. Right. Historians 265 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: like to refer to the years immediately after World War 266 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: Two as the age of historical consensus, because people were 267 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: trying to build this concept, this meme of unified America, stronger, 268 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: number one, superpower, get at me bro. That kind of 269 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: stuff didn't last long, last until about the sixties, and 270 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: then people started reading maybe no, I don't know, I 271 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: don't know. I couldn't tell you exactly what happened to 272 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: change that. I think that part of it would be 273 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 1: counterculture movements. And then also the struggle for equality in 274 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: the United States really gave lie to some of the 275 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: more rose tinted glass kind of stuff. And sometimes though 276 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: revisionist history does deserve its negative connotation, right, well yeah, 277 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: well yes, because well it's associated with highly contentious things. 278 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: So one of the biggest examples would be holocaust denialism. Um. 279 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: And we we don't just mean at least I don't 280 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: just mean, uh, denial of a holocaust in Europe, right, 281 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: because the German Holocaust is often the one that people 282 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: think of, but also the Armenian Holocaust, yeah, which is 283 00:18:53,800 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: still a subject of intense revisionism between Armenia and turn 284 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: Get today. Oh yeah, and you'll have people on either 285 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: side of that believe wholeheartedly that they're correct and the 286 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: other side is just lying and it's it's Those are 287 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: both two really tough subjects that I hopefully we're not 288 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: going to be touching on too much, right yeah. And also, um, 289 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: well there's another example right all the way across the world. 290 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,239 Speaker 1: We could just go back to Japan, uh and the 291 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: idea that Japan was bullied into Pearl Harbor by the 292 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: United States and did the combat as a defensive measure, 293 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: that was forced to do this by you know, progressively 294 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: more prohibitive trade sanctions or embargoes. Right, and now it's 295 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: time that for us to do one of my favorite 296 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: parts of the show. Let's get weird with it, Nolan. 297 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: Could we have some music. Here's where it gets crazy. 298 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: Historical revisionism the way we're talking about it right now, 299 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: which is very PC and very reasonable and very box molder. 300 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: You know, I just want to find the truth, right, 301 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: But there are people who want to revise the concept 302 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: of history of the human story so much so that 303 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: they think we have had gotten entire centuries wrong, as 304 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: in made them up. Yes, the phantom time hypothesis, it's 305 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: the idea that our timeline has some holes in it 306 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: that were filled in historically, just with some junk that 307 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: wasn't true, some ideas, some stories, the idea that the 308 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: ruling class made some changes to make us think that 309 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 1: we're in a different year, calendar year at least than 310 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: we actually are. Psych your mind, that's right. Who used 311 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: to say that once upon a time? Yeah, it's it's 312 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: strange because you know, as you said, as a group 313 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: of theories. Uh, this French jesuit named John how do 314 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: I'm totally mispronouncing that, by the way, Uh, he started, 315 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: He's the one really dropped the beat on this first. Um. 316 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: He believed that art and literature from ancient Greece and 317 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: Rome were all forgeries century and a lot of stuff 318 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: that we think happened in Greece, in Rome and those 319 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: empires never occurred. And other people believed him. That's right. Uh. 320 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: A Russian mathematician named anatotally flamenco i he he in 321 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties. He really thought there was something to this. 322 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 1: So this guy flamenco He used, he used this thing 323 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: statistical analysis to look at texts and mathematical ideas, and 324 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: even even though he's looking at astronomy astronomical observations of 325 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: the time, and he basically showed that this guy wasn't 326 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: very far off and that perhaps the Jesuits add kind 327 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: of forged up some of this stuff. But not just 328 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: European history, right, oh no, no, you're looking at Greek history, 329 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: Roman history, Chinese Arabic, even Egyptian history just made it up. 330 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: Let's well again, that's what this guy is saying, right right, yeah, 331 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: I'm not accusing you say, okay um, but there's there's 332 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 1: even another one been Oh yeah, the more specific Phantom 333 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: Time claimed that that you and I talked about in 334 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: our original episode, uh Phantom Time, where oh I got uh, 335 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: I got one thing wrong and this is my bad. 336 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: I want to I'll annotate the video on this because 337 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: something I got wrong that everyone should know about. Uh. 338 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: I say in there that North Korea counts their years 339 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: from the foundation of their country. That's centruy. They count 340 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: it from the birthday of Kim Il sung. So that's 341 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: a slight correction that I'll annotate. But you know, as 342 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: always welcome corrections, and we're really glad whenever we get 343 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: an opportunity to make the show better. So this more 344 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: specific bick phantom time claim that we mentioned in our 345 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: video is it comes from two Germans, Herobert Ilik and 346 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: Hans Ulyric Nemts. They think our current calendar was filled 347 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: with almost three hundred years of utter, total absolute Matt 348 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: helped me out here, right, and uh, they think that 349 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church did this for for different reasons. And 350 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: when it was two thousand and twelve, they thought was 351 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: seventeen fifteen. So we're recording in fourteen, which means right 352 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: now they think it is two thousand or they think 353 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: it is seventeen seventeen. And don't forget that's just going 354 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: by the Gregorian calendar, right, Yeah. The Gregorian calendar one 355 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: of one of the many calendars that the people of 356 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: the world use, right, all right, it keeps us on 357 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: track relatively Well, um, I was adopted in fifteen eighty 358 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: two because primarily because the Church wanted to keep Easter 359 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: in the right place. Well, yeah, that's one of the 360 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: most important dates his Easter, right that if you don't 361 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: have that right, then what the heck do you have right, right, 362 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 1: And previously the church had been using what was called 363 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: the Julian calendar system, and during this time Easter had 364 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: drifted for ten days. Right. The Julian system was simpler, 365 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: it had a leap year every four years, was also 366 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: less accurate. The guy who ordered this this is interesting 367 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: because this really is a little bit of phantom time, right. 368 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: The guy who ordered this, Pope Gregory the Um. One 369 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: day on October four, fifteen two, they instead of going 370 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: to October, they went straight to October. People went crazy, dude. 371 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: People were not happy. They felt like the Pope was 372 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: stealing days from their lives. Literally, you know, some of 373 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: their concert tickets couldn't be refunded. I mean, it was 374 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: just bad. The eggs went bad. I mean, the plague 375 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 1: doctor is supposed to show up on the ninth. Good luck. 376 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: I guess this next year. But um, all jokes aside, 377 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: All jokes aside, This was something that really upset a 378 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: lot of people. And if you think about it, you know, 379 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: we practice daylight saving time in many parts of the world, 380 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: and the it's still kind of weird when you feel 381 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: like you gained or lost an hour just because this 382 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 1: system of measurement. We use has changed slightly, so anyway, ill, right, Yeah, 383 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: So he's as he's looking back over these eighty two years, 384 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: he's he's counting up the leap years, right, and he 385 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: basically realizes that the ten day error that they thought 386 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: existed was actually too small, and it appears to be 387 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: a thirteen day error. And he said, there's only one 388 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: possible explanation. The only possible explanation is that the Pope 389 00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: somehow faked three full centuries, almost full centuries of recorded history. Uh, 390 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: classic Pope, classic Pope movement. All right, Um, I'm kidding, 391 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,479 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not accusing the Pope of being some 392 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: sort of doctor Whovian time thief. But both of these camps, 393 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: these two camps of phantom timers that we've mentioned, they're not, 394 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: by any means the entire group of fringe theories about this, 395 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: but they have some things in common when it comes 396 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: to their claims. So they claim that there's a lack 397 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: of archaeological and documentary evidence from centuries in the first millennium. 398 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: And this is, uh, they say, you know, in these 399 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: relics and artifacts, and this corroborating evidence is rare or 400 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: doesn't exist because of the centuries never happened. But um, 401 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: this is often explained by saying there wasn't very much 402 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: construction or literature at the time one thing, because right, yeah, right, 403 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,719 Speaker 1: which I think is already kind of calling something dark ages. 404 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a sweeping generalization. But they 405 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: also say that, um, Charlemagne was made up. Yeah yeah, 406 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: I'm not not really sure about that. So what's the 407 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: idea they made him up to or the Church made 408 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: up Charlemagne in order to support the existence of that 409 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: century like that, that's the whole reason that Charlemagne as 410 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 1: a character existed. And a lot of evidence from the 411 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: time that does remain is uh, you know, in some 412 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: way related to Charlemagne. So how fascinating would be if 413 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: that was true. If that was true, I would love it. 414 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: There's a there's a book. I can't remember the author's name, 415 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: maybe Octovio. Pause, No, I'm getting it wrong, but he 416 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: wrote a book named, uh the same the same guy 417 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: who wrote for Co's Pendulum wrote a book called Bodolino, 418 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: which is about this this guy who works with his 419 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: friends to completely bs parts of history, you know, and 420 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: they're they're making up different Uh. This is not a spoiler. 421 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: One of the things they do very often is they 422 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: make fake relics of saints nice and Bottleno Boutolino, like 423 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: body bo Um. That's a good read for anyone who 424 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: wants to see a fairly tongue in cheek look at 425 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: how people treated history and accuracy. So the problem with 426 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff is they're saying that the absence 427 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: of evidence is proof, right, what of the most most 428 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: of the world's other historians dismiss this because they say, well, 429 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: what about radiometric data? What about dendro chronology. Yeah, dendro 430 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: chronology is the study of rings on a tree to 431 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: find the age, right, and and it's fairly simple. Or 432 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: you probably did it as a student somewhere or maybe 433 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: in some kind of scouting troop and count the rings 434 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: and that gives you the age. Yeah, exactly, and it's 435 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: and it's fairly reliable. Tree grow in a certain way. 436 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: You can also show you when a big event happened, 437 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: and the more sophisticated your analysis can be, the more 438 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: you can learn about the world around that tree at 439 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: the time it was alive. So then this guy Fimenko, 440 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: he he completely rejects the radio carbon dating that was used, 441 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: um kind of he's pointing out, it's the same thing 442 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: that Young Earth creationists point out. Okay, all right, so 443 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: the people who believe that the Earth is only six 444 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: thousand or so years old. Yeah, I don't know where 445 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: where else to go here, Ben, I don't I don't 446 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: want I don't want to offend anybody, but my personal 447 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: belief is that UM that the Earth is billions of 448 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: years old. Yeah, I understood. Well. The reason that they 449 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: use similar method of disagreement here, the creationist Dan Famenco, 450 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: is that specific radiometric dating UM is only approximate, right, 451 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: and and and it's only it only really works for 452 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: items have a certain age threshold because the isotopes that 453 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: are measured are they need to be in certain proportions, 454 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: So there has to be there's a sweet spot for 455 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: radiometric dating, right. So Famenco takes it a step even 456 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: further been and he's alleging that there's purposeful conspiring going 457 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: on between these guys who are doing the dating and 458 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: the people who want to have a different story or 459 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: want to perpetuate the idea. The archeological powers that be 460 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: n working in concert with the pope Um Also, this 461 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: is not to mention the other things Flamenco does address 462 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: point by point many of the prevailing rebuttals of his argument, right, 463 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: or the proof that time as we know it exists 464 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: in the chronology in which we know His idea is 465 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: something called the new chronology. And and this goes back 466 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: to pseudo history. A lot of people tell you it's 467 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: pseudo history. But he he also mentions that the astronomy 468 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: doesn't add up for him. He has he has all 469 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: these reasons. People say he's cherry picking data. Um. However, 470 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: the truth is ultimately this kind of stuff can't exactly 471 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: be disproven because of the nature of the way the 472 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: argument is constructed. And we should mention that Anatoly Fomenko 473 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: is uh crazy popular, especially in Russia. He's published and 474 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: sold over one million copies of his books. Um. Other 475 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: people have joined in on the internet and trying to 476 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: help him. Uh So. Critics say that his version of 477 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: history has this sort of nationalist Russian agenda, right, and 478 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: people people like to read it because history, as you 479 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: said earlier, being bound into one's identity makes you feel 480 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: better about your self. Yeah, definitely so. Gary Kasparov also 481 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: likes Flamenco. Yeah, you might remember that name. He's a 482 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: world chess champion. There are a couple other people, but 483 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: we don't have to go into all that. Um well 484 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: we should. We should mention that one of the things 485 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: about the Dark Ages, it's just that so we say that. 486 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: We often say we've heard that the Dark Ages were 487 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: time in which culture just dropped off right, plagues left 488 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: and right. People just had to deal with what was 489 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: right in front of him and trying to eat. I 490 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: don't have time to make a tapestry, you know what 491 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: I mean. That's the idea. Um. And so Flamenco and 492 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: people who support him, like hasprov believe that this stuff. 493 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: Um that that's sort of a yellow flag about the 494 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: Missing time, the phantom time, because of course nothing happened 495 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: because those centuries didn't happen were in their view. I 496 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: guess maybe there's nothing recorded at that time because it 497 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: all got burned. M M. That's true. But at this point, 498 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: with with all these with all these things together, you 499 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: and I have had a heck of a time looking 500 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: at history at large. You know, we also talked about 501 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: the theories regarding the Sphinx, which we unfortunately don't have 502 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: time to get into today. I think it's its own podcast. 503 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: What do you think? Oh, definitely, I think Age in 504 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: Egypt and just the archaeology of Egypt is a whole 505 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: series maybe. And I want to be completely fair and 506 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: point out this um first off, Matt. While I'm not 507 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: convinced by Illeg's arguments and Fimenco's arguments, I am entirely 508 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: certain that within our lifetimes we are going to weaving 509 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: human beings. Maybe you and I, maybe you listeners, we 510 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: will just covers something that completely blows our current understanding 511 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: human history out of the water. We found fossils of 512 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: humans and your humans that sound like total mythological clap 513 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: trap when you when you mentioned it earlier, you know, 514 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: we found real life hobbits, student they're real. We found 515 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: other versions of early Man. We have found human civilizations 516 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of years older than we ever thought possible. 517 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: So I think we're going to discover more and more stuff. 518 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: I I don't know if you can suppress it. I 519 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: don't know how you would, especially with the Internet, if 520 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: we can keep that open and freec Yeah, but that 521 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: my question is how how will historical revisionism work in 522 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: the future. When there are so many different points of 523 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: maintaining track of the history of what of current events 524 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: and what's going on, How is somebody going to go 525 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: through and change all of that? And is it even 526 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 1: possible now? Maybe if it's that's a very good question. 527 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. You you know, you and I have 528 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: talked a lot about that, the ways in which the 529 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: ease of information is changing the human experience. Um, you know, 530 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to go back on the sec thing and neutrality, 531 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: but if if only certain websites are able to be 532 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: reached at certain speeds, and then all of the other 533 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: ones that may be considered fringe or not as trafficked 534 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: or don't at least don't have enough money to get 535 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: into the Usain Bolt lane in Okay, So then all 536 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: you'd have to do is control the information that is 537 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: inside the fast lane, Right, That's true. So I don't 538 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: know that. Maybe that's just something I was thinking about yesterday. 539 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: That's a really good point, because I don't think it 540 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: would be sustainable. This might be some a story for 541 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: another day. I don't don't know if it's sustainable to 542 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: perpetrate that sort of inequality, because what we're talking about 543 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: then is an inequality of information, a segregation of information, 544 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,359 Speaker 1: to be honest, and I'm not. I know that those 545 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: could be loaded words for some people, but that's what 546 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: it is. It's kind of information apartheid. And maybe not 547 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: that the goal. Um. I think the goal ultimately is 548 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: going to be an opportunity to profit. Yeah, I don't 549 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: think it's necessarily in cities thing. But what they would 550 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,800 Speaker 1: say been is is it? Yeah? A s M I 551 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,879 Speaker 1: s M I said before, maybe you and I are 552 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: secretly agents, right, I promise we're not. If we are, 553 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: we're so undercover that we don't know where agent. We're 554 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: Manchurian candidates, or maybe we're like Manchurion interns. That's it. 555 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: So one line from Skep Toyd that I thought was 556 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: interesting is that the author said these phantom time hypotheses 557 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: cannot be disproven because any evidence offered to show that 558 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: they're wrong is simply called fake or unreliable. No evidence 559 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: it's seen, no matter how well supported, is good enough. 560 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: And that's where I want to pass the question on 561 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: to our listeners. Do you think that the current human 562 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: understanding of history is right wrong? On a scale of 563 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,760 Speaker 1: one to ten, ten being perfect you know where where 564 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: we at, where do we fall? How do we get 565 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: closer to ten? That's really great man. If you have 566 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: any ideas, send them to us at Facebook we are 567 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,800 Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff. There were also at conspiracy Stuff on Twitter. 568 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: We would love to hear from you what you have 569 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,760 Speaker 1: to say and what you think, because honestly, we don't 570 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,720 Speaker 1: quite know how we feel exactly. We'd love to share 571 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,399 Speaker 1: some thoughts with you. And that's the end of this 572 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about 573 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: this episode, you can get into contact with us in 574 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: a number of different ways. One of the best is 575 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: to give us a call. Our number is one eight 576 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: three three st d w y t K. If you 577 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: don't want to do that, you can send us a 578 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,879 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart 579 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want you to Know 580 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 581 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 582 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,800 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.