WEBVTT - Part One: Josephine Baker: The Actor and Spy Who Mighta Saved the World 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:03.360 Hello, and welcome to Cool People. Did Cool Stuff? Your 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:07.360 podcast about Stuff Today? Obviously we're going to be talking 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:11.080 about the nineteen ninety five film Hackers, starring Angeline and Jolie. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.120 There might be other characters, but I don't see why 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:16.439 anyone would notice or care. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy. 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.000 Actually I'm not your host. I'm my host. I'm my 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.919 own host. I'm Margaret Kiljoy and with me today is 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:23.960 my guest Lori Penny Laurie, how are you? 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:28.800 Hellom? All right, pretty late here in London, but it's 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:30.000 nice to be in the podcast. 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.600 Yeah. So, Laurie, how would you describe yourself if I 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:35.920 was too lazy to have written a bio? 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:42.080 Well, I'm a writer and I'm a screenwriter, a journalist 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.319 and an essays and various other things that all mean 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.199 I'm a writer, who have it? Who has the Can 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:55.000 I do that again? Sorry? I'm sorry, Ian. So I'm 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.120 a writer, I'm a journalist, a screenwriter and author and 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.880 essayist and various other things that just mean I know 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.920 a lot of different words from writer, but it sounds 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.280 professional if you listen them that way. And I've been 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:12.840 writing on writing on TV shows most recently. But I've 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.440 also done a lot of column and journalist work in 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.680 the US and the UK, and I write a lot 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:25.360 about protest and about politics and philosophy and gender and 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:31.039 but my my fiction work tends to be that plus 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:41.640 a whole lot of spoopy, nerdy, intricate, haunty stuff general 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:45.240 goblin logic. There's a general goblin logic underlying most of 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:46.240 my professional work. 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.919 Hell yeah, Now, since you've said that you write for television, 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.360 I am assuming that you are friends with George Clooney. 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.480 That's that's just my head canon, now, definitely, that's how 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.680 it works. Who I call cluone peg. 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.200 And I sort of know who is. He's the guy 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:07.680 from r oh great m hm, that's the place that 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:09.520 you go and give a fake name and social Security 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:10.040 number two. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:13.080 That's right, that's right, that's right. You also. 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.720 Cool? Well, you know who else had pet pigs? 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.120 That's exactly why I brought it up, all right, Baker 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:28.720 might have gotten along. Ah, So Margaret, hi h. I 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:33.080 have I have carried out a vicious coup against Sophie Lichterman, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.480 your normal producer. My my troops are inside the palace. 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.400 We have taken the major railway stations. Uh, and and 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:46.240 the broadcasting towers and so you know, I I wanted 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:50.079 to suggest a new name for your podcast. Uh huh 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:56.560 who did coup stuff? It's interesting get the joke. 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.200 Yeah, because you you did a coup. I actually just 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:00.520 thought you were Sophie the Cold. 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.240 No. No, A lot of people say that, and it. 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:05.880 Makes much more sense when it's written down. 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.080 Yeah, that was my entire preparation for today, Laurie was 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.639 writing two people who did coop stuff, nodding and satisfaction 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:17.400 and then going to play video games. 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.359 That's that is That is very cue. 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:22.520 And that is actually all that anyone needs to do 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:24.880 to make it on this show is make one clever 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.920 joke like the guest today who No, they actually did 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:32.600 more than Okay, So I will continue as if nothing 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.560 had happened and Sophie was still our producer, because clearly 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:41.880 Sophie will return and free us from this tyrannical Okay, 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.480 So Ian is our audio engineer. I like saying hi, Ian, 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.000 even though Ian can't say back. So yeah, hi Ian. 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:55.040 Our theme music was written for usd by unwoman, So Laurie, Oh. 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:56.880 Yeah, yeah that's amazing. 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:01.160 Yeah, No, I'm I quite like it, Laura. Have you 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:02.440 ever heard of World War Two? 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.400 Yes, slightly. I think I saw a film about it once. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.400 Yeah, in America we call it dub Dub dose. But 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:12.080 but similar. 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:12.760 Yeah. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.040 Yeah, I'm trying to I'm trying to translate things into 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:16.760 British question. 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.080 It's kind of like we got the British Office in 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.359 the US Office. There's some differences, but you know, similar basis. 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:28.000 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, well it's more optimistic, but I don't 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.360 know not actually, you know what, I objected that comparison 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.080 because that's probably the one show where the American version 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:34.520 is better. 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.560 Yeah. In the American version of World War Two, only 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.040 Tom Hanks dies, if I'm remembering correctly. 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:47.120 So yeah, and the regular version a lot more people died, 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:47.840 that's true. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.760 The regular version was nasty. 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:55.880 So there's this war. It's called World War Two. It's 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.479 the lesser than sequel of the Great War. And one 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.080 thing that happened in this war is that France got 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.560 got by Germany and some sort of takeover, much like 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.760 what Robert has done to us here. This is a 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.679 good comparison, like problems, no problem. 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:13.839 I can see nothing that could possibly go wrong. 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:18.480 Now tell me some people tried to stop that takeover 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:23.520 and then helped retake Europe. That's true. Yeah, no, I'm sorry, Robert, 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.279 I'm sorry to say this. Some people tried to retake 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.679 it successfully retook Europe from fascism. Some of those people 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.120 were spies. Have you ever heard of Josephine Baker. 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:42.280 Yes, she was a dancer and she was in Paris 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:47.280 in the twenties and thirties, was it Yep? I feel 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.760 like I could know more about Josephine Baker. I've got 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.200 a friendly meant a daughter after Josephine Baker. 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:54.760 Oh that's awesome, which. 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:55.920 Is why I mugged up on it a little bit. 0:05:56.320 --> 0:06:00.000 Well, good for you. You're going to learn more about Josephine 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:00.920 Baker today. 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:02.560 I'm very excited. 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.760 And Robert will hear about Justphine Baker. Actually, yeah, we'll see, 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.159 we'll see. This week, we're going to talk about a 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:14.000 bisexual black woman from Missouri who got the fuck out 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:15.840 of the US, became one of the most famous people 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.600 in the world, then burned her entire fortune to become 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:20.760 one of the most effective spies the world has ever seen. 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:22.599 And that's Justphine Baker. 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.120 So pretty good person to name your kid after But 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:29.320 I guess that's one of the conclusions we have today. 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:31.040 Yeah, pretty cool kid. 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:37.160 Yeah her one. The one weird spot is her kids, 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:38.839 but we'll get to that the way she chose to 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:42.800 raise her kids. M On June, I like to judge 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.080 people based on people who probably like it's possible that 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.440 if Josephine Baker didn't exist, like not, the Nazis would 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.720 have won the war. That's like not outside the realm 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:55.520 of possibility. I'm going to ask y'all's opinion about that 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.960 when we get to some of the crucial rights, correct, 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:03.760 because I feel like y'all's combination of knowledge, Robert knowing 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.240 an ungodly amount about World War Two and you Laurie 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:11.720 knowing about being from England, these all related. 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.320 Well. Actually, the thing about World War two and being 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.680 British is that I don't know how much World War 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:22.160 two history you all learn in school, but we I 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.160 think I look World War two history every single year 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:32.720 in my education, I think, And it's funny British history education. 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:34.160 There's quite a lot of it. Most of it is 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.080 just about British history, but for some reason, they teach 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.440 us World War two history every single year. But the 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:45.000 other history teaching mysteriously stops sometime in the mid sixteen 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:51.880 hundreds and just picks up again in World War One. Honestly, seriously, 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.560 ask any British person who has studied the history at 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:59.320 school if they learned a line of imperial history. And 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:01.880 I remember being taught like in the kind of post 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:06.320 war period that we somehow lost the empire, you know, and. 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.280 It was you'll find it just like if it was like. 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:10.720 You know, just down in the back of the sofa 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.280 or something. It was never quite it was never explained 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.720 how we came to have this empire, and losing it 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:20.040 was just from like, oh you know, oh terribly sorry, 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.240 oh Chap, was this yours? So here have it back, 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:29.680 if it was meant at all, But really it's very conspicuous, 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.960 like several century gap, then just World War two again 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.040 and again and again. The last time that we can 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.520 be reasonably sure and maybe the only time we could 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:40.480 be reasonably sure we were the good guys. 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.800 Kind of yeah, I mean the US, I think we're 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.320 a little less extreme than that, but like there's definitely 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.120 huge amount of history, everything up to the Revolution and 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:54.040 then more or less blow over everything until we get 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.240 to the Civil War, right. 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.040 Because we have two moments of good. The US can 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.240 be like, well, we defeat did the Confederacy and we 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:03.680 defeated the Nazis. Those are the only things that we 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.000 can say positively in US history. 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:11.160 Yeah, I mean, isn't defeating like my lot kind of 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:13.920 up there with those tourises not count Okay, So from 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.559 from the US, then I've seen Hamilton. It may be 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.160 very proud to be an American city. I'm not which 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:21.480 I'm not. 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.040 My opinions about the American Revolutionary War is that it's 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:31.040 a lateral move from one imperial power to another. But 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.640 that's not a popular take. And yes, it's true that 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.960 the US educational system believes that it was positive. 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.720 All right, off topic already, that. 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.360 Is that is not how mel Gibson described it in 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:44.760 the movie The Patriot Margaret. 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.040 But oh interesting, interesting, Yeah, that's the one where he 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:49.960 paints himself blue and grabs a broadsword. 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:56.040 Yeah, that's that's what that's what women want, okay. 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:57.600 Oh yeah, no, of course. Yeah. 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:01.680 So speaking of anti Semitism, that'll come up later in 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.960 the thing. Not actually not our protagonist. Okay. So on 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:09.880 June third, nineteen oh six, FRIEDA Josephine McDonald was born 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.840 in a real poor part of Saint Louis, Missouri, like 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.680 a no running water part of town, where half the 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:21.080 businesses were crime businesses, brothels and other people doing various crime. 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.840 The other half were factories whose primary production seems to 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:29.840 be pollution. And her and her three siblings, they're all younger. 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.080 They all slept on one mattress on the floor in 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.920 her parents' bedroom. One of her sisters, one of her 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.080 younger sisters, was graced with the single best name that 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.560 anyone can have, which I'm sure you all already know 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:41.959 what is. 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.000 Here's we are you Harry? 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:47.040 No Margaret? 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.800 Oh right right? Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.120 So it's just really important that everyone knows that just 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:57.880 fantas sister named Margaret and her mother, her mother used 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.560 to say things to her like I wish she'd never 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:01.120 been born. 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:02.800 Oh that's no good. 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.960 Yeah, she didn't have a good childhood, like an awful 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.439 lot of self made folks and folks for marginalized communities, 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.760 et cetera. She played real fast and loose with details 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.480 about her early life, and a lot is clouded in 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.480 mystery of her early life because she hated her early life, 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.040 and then a lot is clouded in history of her 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:24.760 war years because she was a spy. And she didn't 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.240 talk about this until like, she never talked about it. 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.880 Really she died in seventy five or something. She survives 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:34.280 the war spoiler and yeah, and this the details about 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.360 her her spying and stuff didn't come out until a 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.760 couple of years ago. One time, an interviewer was like, 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.000 every time you write a memoir, do an interview, you 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.240 change your story about your family background. So what is 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.280 your family background? And her defense of her actions, as 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.400 she said, I don't lie. I improve on life. 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:56.280 Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, love it. Yeah, that's exactly 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.360 what I say every time I get pulled over by 0:11:58.400 --> 0:11:59.800 the police. Yeah. 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:05.400 Yes, that and it probably works for you, right, that's 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:06.680 where you don't have a driver's license. 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.680 Well, I don't need a driver's license because I'm a 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.000 sovereign citizen traveling on the land. Margaret. 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.080 Yeah, the Constitution is your driver's license. 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:19.120 Yeah. 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:22.560 So we're going to do our best with putting together 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.680 her young history. And by our best, I mean I 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.240 will include the stories that I find the most interesting. 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.400 Which is probably what she would have wanted. It's funny 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.760 isn't it trying to Like, you're trying to put together 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.600 a history of somebody who probably didn't want her history 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:39.920 put together. So it's a little pressure. 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:45.400 I know. Well, the worst is when they're alive. I yeah. 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.560 Her mother was a black woman who washed clothes for 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:49.640 a living, who was who had been adopted into a 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:54.680 black and indigenous family, or was indigenous herself. There's a 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.920 lot of uncertainty about that lineage. Her father was probably 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.599 a random white guy, but she has claimed to have 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.040 a ton of different fathers, like this fancy guy from 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.120 Spain or this other black man or you know, just 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:08.080 like lots of different people. 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:08.880 She's claimed it. 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:17.760 Her childhood nickname was Humpty Dumpty, yeah, which got shortened 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:22.400 to tumpty I don't know how. And she worked since 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:24.640 she was young as hell in all kinds of different fields. 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.199 For example, when she was eight, she cleaned and babysat 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.200 for this rich fuck named missus Kaiser. There's no and 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:35.679 his naming here. One time she put too much soap 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.600 in her boss's laundry, so her white boss burned her hands. 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:39.680 Wow. 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.440 Yeah, yeah, she's not very nice. She got mad at 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.640 one at Josephine at one point and started keeping Josephine 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.520 in the basement with the family dog, who Josephine loved 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.640 and called three legs for reasons that are probably self evident. 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.120 Has to do with the number of legs that the 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:55.600 dog had. 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.040 Oh fascinating, Yeah, a. 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.720 Little bit more self evident than Humpty dumpty. She shared 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:02.520 her little bits of food with that dog. She grew 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.080 very close. She loved animals, This is a lifelong thing 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.800 for her. Missus Kaiser had a white rooster whom Josephine 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:13.160 named Tiny Tim, and once Tiny Tim was big enough, 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.120 missus Kaiser made Josephine kill it with scissors. Josephine's like eight, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:24.800 Oh god, yeah, well, so Josephine the whole time, and 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.400 then ran away and never went back to missus Kaiser. 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.440 The first time she ever made money dancing, she was 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.680 about eight or so also, and this snake oil salesman 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.680 came through town selling fake medicine and he'd use theater 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.040 to attract a crowd on the street. This culminated in 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.880 a dance competition in which young Josephine won, and the 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.760 prize was a dollar, which is about twenty five dollars today. 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.760 So this was like a fairly big deal. She styled 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.200 her dancing based on the animals that she loved, like 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.720 she would like consciously mimic the dancing the movements of 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.960 different animals, which later led to really weird shit because 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.720 she's this black woman dancing for mostly a white audience 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.240 and people keep referring to her dances as like animalistic 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.840 in this like very fetishizing, shitty way. But it's like that, yeah, 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.800 but it's also awkward because she is also consciously styling 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.920 her dancing on animals. 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:20.120 Her favorite animals. 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:25.760 Yeah, And so she loves theaters since she's really small. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.800 Theaters were around even in her neighborhood, including one that 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.040 would have different like ethnicity nights, like there was like 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.480 an Egypt thing, an Egypt themed night and stuff like that, 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.680 and Josephine wasn't going to those, but they influenced the 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.720 culture of the part of town she lived in. So 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:43.800 one of her friend's older brothers set up a basement 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.280 theater and charged a penny for attendance, and so she 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.360 danced in the chorus line and later set up a 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:53.680 similar club in her own basement. And then in nineteen seventeen, 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.200 when she was eleven, she saw some white people burning 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.000 a whole lot of black people's stuff in the East 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:04.200 Saint Lewis massacre, when white pieces of shit murdered between 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.520 thirty nine and one hundred and fifty black people and 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.520 burned a fuck ton of the houses and left six 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:10.720 thousand people homeless. And this is out of a fairly 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:15.520 small black population at the time. White cops in the 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.640 National Guard just let it happen. They got told not 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:20.680 to shoot the white rioters and so they just like 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.080 stepped back, and I suspect a lot of them were 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:27.440 joining in, and maybe a third of the black people 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.760 left Saint Louis after that. And one of the reasons 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.480 to bring it up is because it's a dark period 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.360 of labor history, because unions have never done anything wrong right. 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.480 Unions in the US were often white only, and so 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:41.640 owners used that to break the working class. They would 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:45.400 import black strike breakers who were desperate for work. So 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.200 the strikers just decided to attack all the black people 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.040 moving to the city. So it is actually a union 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:56.760 thing that caused all of this. And this is one 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:01.200 of Josephine's earliest memories. She said about it later, I 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.280 can still see myself standing on the west bank of 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.399 the Mississippi, looking over into East Saint Louis and watching 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.640 the glow of the burning Negro homes lighting the sky. 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:13.040 We children stood huddled together in bewilderment, rightened to death 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.439 with the screams of the Negro families running across this 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.480 bridge with nothing but what they had on their backs 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.560 as their worldly belongings. She worked other jobs in addition 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:26.040 to watching horrible things happen and dancing. The coolest job, 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:27.560 from my point of view, is that she was a 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.119 coal thief. I don't know if you've either of you 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:31.360 have ever had this job. 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.320 But she ran so the job a person can have. 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.160 Yeah, Yeah, and certainly in Saint Louis at the time. 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.000 She ran with a gang of street kids in Saint Louis, 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.320 and so they'd steal from the coal trains. Josephine would 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.240 climb up on the trains while they were moving slow 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:46.520 and just like climb up to the top of the 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:48.600 cars and just start tossing hunks of coal down for 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.640 them to sell. Yeah, And she would do that until 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:53.640 the train started picking up too much speed and she'd 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:55.639 jump off. And there's all these like dramatic tellings of 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.600 this where yeah, yeah. 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.119 Like what that is. That's like an orange story job. 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.960 That's like at the start of her Jones movie, Like 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.879 that's the first scene is her like hopping on a 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.560 train to Jack Cole, and then we like cut to 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:10.600 her in World War. 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.040 Some other sort of train which she's having a fight 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.520 in the root of the train with somebody with really 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.240 improbable parkourse skills who happens to be a Nazi, and 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.080 the music's kind of like yeah. 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's fistfighting a guy with the kind 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.040 of abs you only get when you're you're putting seven 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.440 thousand dollars a trend into your butt every month. 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:33.600 Yeah. Absolutely, And what's so great about that is that 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.879 that's actually literally what I said to someone who was 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.640 reading this is I was like, I was like, this 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.320 is the first scene if I filmed, if I filmed this, 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:42.520 this is the first scene. 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:44.280 Yeah, absolutely, yeah. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.400 Yeah, So this is the kinds of jobs that she has. 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.280 Right when she's thirteen, she was a waitress and a 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.520 street kid. She got I've heard different versions of this, 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.040 of course, she told different versions. She might have gotten 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.240 kicked out of her house by her parents for having 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.440 too many pets, like filling family's house with like all 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:05.159 of the strays and stuff. So she was living in 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.119 cardboard boxes and picking food from trash cans, and she 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:11.000 would make her money busking by dancing on street corners. 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.119 Soon she joined a busking crew called the Jones Family 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.280 Band that traveled around the US. And she got married 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.679 at the time. And I cannot find how old this 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.439 person was, so I'm just out of the goodness of 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.919 my heart guessing it's another thirteen year old. That is 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.280 what I wish to believe. Because when she's thirteen, she 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.840 gets married for the first time to someone named Willie Wells. 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:33.800 But is that legal? 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:35.600 I don't know. 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.560 Yeah, I mean that's legal still in some states with 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:42.520 your parents' approval. Maybe it's Dane now, but yeah, like. 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.680 Yeah, And it's the new right wing thing as well. 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.640 They're busy calling us groomers. They're actually literally working. 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.679 To get rid of let's sell off children. 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.520 Yeah, they're trying to lower the age of marriage or whatever. 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.480 So she marries Willy Wells. It's an unhappy marriage, as 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.159 probably any two thirteen years all time. Again, benefit of 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.520 the doubt here, assuming it was a thirteen year old. 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.879 When you're like slightly young to really handle the moral 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.119 complexities of the original Pokemon games, you probably shouldn't be 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:13.399 navigating marriage. 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:18.400 That is a controversial take to Christian nationalists. They might 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:19.600 not like you anymore, Robert. 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.800 Yeah, I'm gonna lose like thirty percent of our audience. 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:28.720 Yeah, well, don't worry, because when she's fifteen, she finds 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:29.399 another Willi. 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:29.680 Oh. 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.080 She divorces this guy right and doesn't last a year. 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.199 But when she's fifteen, she finds another Willy Willie Baker, 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:37.840 and she's like, look, I've got this thing where I 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:41.320 marry people named Willi. So she marries him. This marriage 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:45.600 doesn't last either, but she keeps his name, and it's 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.640 possible that she's never legally divorced. In everything she's doing 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:50.840 after this is like various forms of bigamy. 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.440 Yeah yeah, but I don't care. 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:58.399 So, like double double divorce at fifteen is kind of 0:20:58.400 --> 0:20:59.720 a flex in a weird way. 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.960 Yeah, that's true. This was a lot more common back 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:05.439 then too, the whole like people being technically big and 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:10.320 miskally married, because the way that like different states handled 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:12.560 the sharing of information meant that it was really a 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:14.640 lot of shit just out like lost in the male 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.440 effectively totally. I've been dealing with this talking reading about 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.919