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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People. Did Cool Stuff? Your

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Speaker 1: podcast about Stuff Today? Obviously we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about the nineteen ninety five film Hackers, starring Angeline and Jolie.

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Speaker 1: There might be other characters, but I don't see why

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Speaker 1: anyone would notice or care. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy.

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Speaker 1: Actually I'm not your host. I'm my host. I'm my

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Speaker 1: own host. I'm Margaret Kiljoy and with me today is

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Speaker 1: my guest Lori Penny Laurie, how are you?

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Speaker 2: Hellom? All right, pretty late here in London, but it's

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Speaker 2: nice to be in the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Laurie, how would you describe yourself if I

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Speaker 1: was too lazy to have written a bio?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm a writer and I'm a screenwriter, a journalist

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Speaker 2: and an essays and various other things that all mean

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Speaker 2: I'm a writer, who have it? Who has the Can

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Speaker 2: I do that again? Sorry? I'm sorry, Ian. So I'm

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Speaker 2: a writer, I'm a journalist, a screenwriter and author and

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Speaker 2: essayist and various other things that just mean I know

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Speaker 2: a lot of different words from writer, but it sounds

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Speaker 2: professional if you listen them that way. And I've been

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Speaker 2: writing on writing on TV shows most recently. But I've

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Speaker 2: also done a lot of column and journalist work in

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Speaker 2: the US and the UK, and I write a lot

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Speaker 2: about protest and about politics and philosophy and gender and

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Speaker 2: but my my fiction work tends to be that plus

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Speaker 2: a whole lot of spoopy, nerdy, intricate, haunty stuff general

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Speaker 2: goblin logic. There's a general goblin logic underlying most of

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Speaker 2: my professional work.

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah, Now, since you've said that you write for television,

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Speaker 3: I am assuming that you are friends with George Clooney.

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Speaker 3: That's that's just my head canon, now, definitely, that's how

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Speaker 3: it works. Who I call cluone peg.

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Speaker 1: And I sort of know who is. He's the guy

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Speaker 1: from r oh great m hm, that's the place that

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Speaker 1: you go and give a fake name and social Security

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Speaker 1: number two.

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Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, that's right. You also.

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Speaker 1: Cool? Well, you know who else had pet pigs?

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Speaker 3: That's exactly why I brought it up, all right, Baker

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Speaker 3: might have gotten along. Ah, So Margaret, hi h. I

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Speaker 3: have I have carried out a vicious coup against Sophie Lichterman,

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Speaker 3: your normal producer. My my troops are inside the palace.

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Speaker 3: We have taken the major railway stations. Uh, and and

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Speaker 3: the broadcasting towers and so you know, I I wanted

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Speaker 3: to suggest a new name for your podcast. Uh huh

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Speaker 3: who did coup stuff? It's interesting get the joke.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because you you did a coup. I actually just

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Speaker 1: thought you were Sophie the Cold.

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Speaker 3: No. No, A lot of people say that, and it.

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Speaker 2: Makes much more sense when it's written down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was my entire preparation for today, Laurie was

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Speaker 3: writing two people who did coop stuff, nodding and satisfaction

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Speaker 3: and then going to play video games.

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Speaker 2: That's that is That is very cue.

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Speaker 1: And that is actually all that anyone needs to do

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Speaker 1: to make it on this show is make one clever

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Speaker 1: joke like the guest today who No, they actually did

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Speaker 1: more than Okay, So I will continue as if nothing

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Speaker 1: had happened and Sophie was still our producer, because clearly

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Speaker 1: Sophie will return and free us from this tyrannical Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Ian is our audio engineer. I like saying hi, Ian,

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Speaker 1: even though Ian can't say back. So yeah, hi Ian.

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Speaker 1: Our theme music was written for usd by unwoman, So Laurie, Oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I'm I quite like it, Laura. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever heard of World War Two?

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Speaker 2: Yes, slightly. I think I saw a film about it once.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in America we call it dub Dub dose. But

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Speaker 3: but similar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to I'm trying to translate things into

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Speaker 1: British question.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of like we got the British Office in

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Speaker 3: the US Office. There's some differences, but you know, similar basis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, well it's more optimistic, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know not actually, you know what, I objected that comparison

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Speaker 2: because that's probably the one show where the American version

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Speaker 2: is better.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. In the American version of World War Two, only

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Speaker 3: Tom Hanks dies, if I'm remembering correctly.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and the regular version a lot more people died,

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Speaker 1: that's true.

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Speaker 3: The regular version was nasty.

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Speaker 1: So there's this war. It's called World War Two. It's

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Speaker 1: the lesser than sequel of the Great War. And one

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Speaker 1: thing that happened in this war is that France got

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Speaker 1: got by Germany and some sort of takeover, much like

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Speaker 1: what Robert has done to us here. This is a

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Speaker 1: good comparison, like problems, no problem.

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Speaker 2: I can see nothing that could possibly go wrong.

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Speaker 1: Now tell me some people tried to stop that takeover

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Speaker 1: and then helped retake Europe. That's true. Yeah, no, I'm sorry, Robert,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to say this. Some people tried to retake

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Speaker 1: it successfully retook Europe from fascism. Some of those people

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Speaker 1: were spies. Have you ever heard of Josephine Baker.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she was a dancer and she was in Paris

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Speaker 2: in the twenties and thirties, was it Yep? I feel

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Speaker 2: like I could know more about Josephine Baker. I've got

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Speaker 2: a friendly meant a daughter after Josephine Baker.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome, which.

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Speaker 2: Is why I mugged up on it a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Well, good for you. You're going to learn more about Josephine

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Speaker 1: Baker today.

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Speaker 2: I'm very excited.

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Speaker 1: And Robert will hear about Justphine Baker. Actually, yeah, we'll see,

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Speaker 1: we'll see. This week, we're going to talk about a

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Speaker 1: bisexual black woman from Missouri who got the fuck out

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Speaker 1: of the US, became one of the most famous people

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Speaker 1: in the world, then burned her entire fortune to become

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Speaker 1: one of the most effective spies the world has ever seen.

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Speaker 1: And that's Justphine Baker.

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Speaker 3: So pretty good person to name your kid after But

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Speaker 3: I guess that's one of the conclusions we have today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty cool kid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah her one. The one weird spot is her kids,

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Speaker 1: but we'll get to that the way she chose to

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Speaker 1: raise her kids. M On June, I like to judge

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Speaker 1: people based on people who probably like it's possible that

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Speaker 1: if Josephine Baker didn't exist, like not, the Nazis would

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Speaker 1: have won the war. That's like not outside the realm

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Speaker 1: of possibility. I'm going to ask y'all's opinion about that

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Speaker 1: when we get to some of the crucial rights, correct,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like y'all's combination of knowledge, Robert knowing

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Speaker 1: an ungodly amount about World War Two and you Laurie

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Speaker 1: knowing about being from England, these all related.

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Speaker 2: Well. Actually, the thing about World War two and being

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Speaker 2: British is that I don't know how much World War

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Speaker 2: two history you all learn in school, but we I

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Speaker 2: think I look World War two history every single year

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Speaker 2: in my education, I think, And it's funny British history education.

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Speaker 2: There's quite a lot of it. Most of it is

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Speaker 2: just about British history, but for some reason, they teach

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Speaker 2: us World War two history every single year. But the

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Speaker 2: other history teaching mysteriously stops sometime in the mid sixteen

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Speaker 2: hundreds and just picks up again in World War One. Honestly, seriously,

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Speaker 2: ask any British person who has studied the history at

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Speaker 2: school if they learned a line of imperial history. And

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Speaker 2: I remember being taught like in the kind of post

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Speaker 2: war period that we somehow lost the empire, you know, and.

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Speaker 1: It was you'll find it just like if it was like.

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Speaker 2: You know, just down in the back of the sofa

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Speaker 2: or something. It was never quite it was never explained

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Speaker 2: how we came to have this empire, and losing it

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Speaker 2: was just from like, oh you know, oh terribly sorry,

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Speaker 2: oh Chap, was this yours? So here have it back,

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Speaker 2: if it was meant at all, But really it's very conspicuous,

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Speaker 2: like several century gap, then just World War two again

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Speaker 2: and again and again. The last time that we can

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Speaker 2: be reasonably sure and maybe the only time we could

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Speaker 2: be reasonably sure we were the good guys.

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Speaker 3: Kind of yeah, I mean the US, I think we're

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Speaker 3: a little less extreme than that, but like there's definitely

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Speaker 3: huge amount of history, everything up to the Revolution and

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Speaker 3: then more or less blow over everything until we get

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Speaker 3: to the Civil War, right.

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Speaker 1: Because we have two moments of good. The US can

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Speaker 1: be like, well, we defeat did the Confederacy and we

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Speaker 1: defeated the Nazis. Those are the only things that we

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Speaker 1: can say positively in US history.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, isn't defeating like my lot kind of

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Speaker 2: up there with those tourises not count Okay, So from

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Speaker 2: from the US, then I've seen Hamilton. It may be

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Speaker 2: very proud to be an American city. I'm not which

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Speaker 2: I'm not.

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Speaker 1: My opinions about the American Revolutionary War is that it's

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Speaker 1: a lateral move from one imperial power to another. But

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Speaker 1: that's not a popular take. And yes, it's true that

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Speaker 1: the US educational system believes that it was positive.

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Speaker 2: All right, off topic already, that.

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Speaker 3: Is that is not how mel Gibson described it in

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Speaker 3: the movie The Patriot Margaret.

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Speaker 1: But oh interesting, interesting, Yeah, that's the one where he

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Speaker 1: paints himself blue and grabs a broadsword.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's what that's what women want, okay.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, of course. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So speaking of anti Semitism, that'll come up later in

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Speaker 1: the thing. Not actually not our protagonist. Okay. So on

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Speaker 1: June third, nineteen oh six, FRIEDA Josephine McDonald was born

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Speaker 1: in a real poor part of Saint Louis, Missouri, like

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Speaker 1: a no running water part of town, where half the

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Speaker 1: businesses were crime businesses, brothels and other people doing various crime.

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Speaker 1: The other half were factories whose primary production seems to

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Speaker 1: be pollution. And her and her three siblings, they're all younger.

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Speaker 1: They all slept on one mattress on the floor in

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Speaker 1: her parents' bedroom. One of her sisters, one of her

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Speaker 1: younger sisters, was graced with the single best name that

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Speaker 1: anyone can have, which I'm sure you all already know

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Speaker 1: what is.

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Speaker 3: Here's we are you Harry?

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Speaker 1: No Margaret?

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Speaker 2: Oh right right? Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it's just really important that everyone knows that just

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Speaker 1: fantas sister named Margaret and her mother, her mother used

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Speaker 1: to say things to her like I wish she'd never

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Speaker 1: been born.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's no good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she didn't have a good childhood, like an awful

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Speaker 1: lot of self made folks and folks for marginalized communities,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. She played real fast and loose with details

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Speaker 1: about her early life, and a lot is clouded in

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Speaker 1: mystery of her early life because she hated her early life,

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Speaker 1: and then a lot is clouded in history of her

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Speaker 1: war years because she was a spy. And she didn't

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Speaker 1: talk about this until like, she never talked about it.

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Speaker 1: Really she died in seventy five or something. She survives

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Speaker 1: the war spoiler and yeah, and this the details about

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Speaker 1: her her spying and stuff didn't come out until a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago. One time, an interviewer was like,

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Speaker 1: every time you write a memoir, do an interview, you

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Speaker 1: change your story about your family background. So what is

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Speaker 1: your family background? And her defense of her actions, as

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Speaker 1: she said, I don't lie. I improve on life.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, love it. Yeah, that's exactly

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Speaker 3: what I say every time I get pulled over by

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Speaker 3: the police. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that and it probably works for you, right, that's

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Speaker 1: where you don't have a driver's license.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't need a driver's license because I'm a

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Speaker 3: sovereign citizen traveling on the land. Margaret.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Constitution is your driver's license.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to do our best with putting together

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Speaker 1: her young history. And by our best, I mean I

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Speaker 1: will include the stories that I find the most interesting.

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Speaker 2: Which is probably what she would have wanted. It's funny

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Speaker 2: isn't it trying to Like, you're trying to put together

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Speaker 2: a history of somebody who probably didn't want her history

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Speaker 2: put together. So it's a little pressure.

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Speaker 1: I know. Well, the worst is when they're alive. I yeah.

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Speaker 1: Her mother was a black woman who washed clothes for

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Speaker 1: a living, who was who had been adopted into a

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Speaker 1: black and indigenous family, or was indigenous herself. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of uncertainty about that lineage. Her father was probably

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Speaker 1: a random white guy, but she has claimed to have

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Speaker 1: a ton of different fathers, like this fancy guy from

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Speaker 1: Spain or this other black man or you know, just

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Speaker 1: like lots of different people.

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Speaker 3: She's claimed it.

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Speaker 1: Her childhood nickname was Humpty Dumpty, yeah, which got shortened

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Speaker 1: to tumpty I don't know how. And she worked since

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Speaker 1: she was young as hell in all kinds of different fields.

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Speaker 1: For example, when she was eight, she cleaned and babysat

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Speaker 1: for this rich fuck named missus Kaiser. There's no and

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Speaker 1: his naming here. One time she put too much soap

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Speaker 1: in her boss's laundry, so her white boss burned her hands.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she's not very nice. She got mad at

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Speaker 1: one at Josephine at one point and started keeping Josephine

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Speaker 1: in the basement with the family dog, who Josephine loved

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Speaker 1: and called three legs for reasons that are probably self evident.

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Speaker 1: Has to do with the number of legs that the

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Speaker 1: dog had.

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Speaker 3: Oh fascinating, Yeah, a.

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Speaker 1: Little bit more self evident than Humpty dumpty. She shared

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Speaker 1: her little bits of food with that dog. She grew

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Speaker 1: very close. She loved animals, This is a lifelong thing

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Speaker 1: for her. Missus Kaiser had a white rooster whom Josephine

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Speaker 1: named Tiny Tim, and once Tiny Tim was big enough,

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Speaker 1: missus Kaiser made Josephine kill it with scissors. Josephine's like eight,

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Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, well, so Josephine the whole time, and

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Speaker 1: then ran away and never went back to missus Kaiser.

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Speaker 1: The first time she ever made money dancing, she was

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Speaker 1: about eight or so also, and this snake oil salesman

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Speaker 1: came through town selling fake medicine and he'd use theater

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Speaker 1: to attract a crowd on the street. This culminated in

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Speaker 1: a dance competition in which young Josephine won, and the

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Speaker 1: prize was a dollar, which is about twenty five dollars today.

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Speaker 1: So this was like a fairly big deal. She styled

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Speaker 1: her dancing based on the animals that she loved, like

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Speaker 1: she would like consciously mimic the dancing the movements of

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Speaker 1: different animals, which later led to really weird shit because

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Speaker 1: she's this black woman dancing for mostly a white audience

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Speaker 1: and people keep referring to her dances as like animalistic

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Speaker 1: in this like very fetishizing, shitty way. But it's like that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it's also awkward because she is also consciously styling

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Speaker 1: her dancing on animals.

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Speaker 2: Her favorite animals.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so she loves theaters since she's really small.

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Speaker 1: Theaters were around even in her neighborhood, including one that

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Speaker 1: would have different like ethnicity nights, like there was like

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Speaker 1: an Egypt thing, an Egypt themed night and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: and Josephine wasn't going to those, but they influenced the

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Speaker 1: culture of the part of town she lived in. So

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Speaker 1: one of her friend's older brothers set up a basement

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Speaker 1: theater and charged a penny for attendance, and so she

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Speaker 1: danced in the chorus line and later set up a

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Speaker 1: similar club in her own basement. And then in nineteen seventeen,

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Speaker 1: when she was eleven, she saw some white people burning

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of black people's stuff in the East

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Speaker 1: Saint Lewis massacre, when white pieces of shit murdered between

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Speaker 1: thirty nine and one hundred and fifty black people and

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Speaker 1: burned a fuck ton of the houses and left six

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Speaker 1: thousand people homeless. And this is out of a fairly

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Speaker 1: small black population at the time. White cops in the

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Speaker 1: National Guard just let it happen. They got told not

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Speaker 1: to shoot the white rioters and so they just like

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Speaker 1: stepped back, and I suspect a lot of them were

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Speaker 1: joining in, and maybe a third of the black people

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Speaker 1: left Saint Louis after that. And one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: to bring it up is because it's a dark period

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Speaker 1: of labor history, because unions have never done anything wrong right.

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Speaker 1: Unions in the US were often white only, and so

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Speaker 1: owners used that to break the working class. They would

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Speaker 1: import black strike breakers who were desperate for work. So

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Speaker 1: the strikers just decided to attack all the black people

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Speaker 1: moving to the city. So it is actually a union

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Speaker 1: thing that caused all of this. And this is one

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Speaker 1: of Josephine's earliest memories. She said about it later, I

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Speaker 1: can still see myself standing on the west bank of

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Speaker 1: the Mississippi, looking over into East Saint Louis and watching

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Speaker 1: the glow of the burning Negro homes lighting the sky.

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Speaker 1: We children stood huddled together in bewilderment, rightened to death

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Speaker 1: with the screams of the Negro families running across this

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Speaker 1: bridge with nothing but what they had on their backs

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Speaker 1: as their worldly belongings. She worked other jobs in addition

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Speaker 1: to watching horrible things happen and dancing. The coolest job,

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Speaker 1: from my point of view, is that she was a

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Speaker 1: coal thief. I don't know if you've either of you

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Speaker 1: have ever had this job.

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Speaker 2: But she ran so the job a person can have.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, and certainly in Saint Louis at the time.

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Speaker 1: She ran with a gang of street kids in Saint Louis,

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Speaker 1: and so they'd steal from the coal trains. Josephine would

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Speaker 1: climb up on the trains while they were moving slow

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Speaker 1: and just like climb up to the top of the

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Speaker 1: cars and just start tossing hunks of coal down for

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Speaker 1: them to sell. Yeah, And she would do that until

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Speaker 1: the train started picking up too much speed and she'd

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Speaker 1: jump off. And there's all these like dramatic tellings of

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Speaker 1: this where yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Like what that is. That's like an orange story job.

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Speaker 3: That's like at the start of her Jones movie, Like

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Speaker 3: that's the first scene is her like hopping on a

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Speaker 3: train to Jack Cole, and then we like cut to

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Speaker 3: her in World War.

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Speaker 2: Some other sort of train which she's having a fight

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Speaker 2: in the root of the train with somebody with really

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Speaker 2: improbable parkourse skills who happens to be a Nazi, and

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Speaker 2: the music's kind of like yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's fistfighting a guy with the kind

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Speaker 3: of abs you only get when you're you're putting seven

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars a trend into your butt every month.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And what's so great about that is that

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Speaker 1: that's actually literally what I said to someone who was

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Speaker 1: reading this is I was like, I was like, this

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Speaker 1: is the first scene if I filmed, if I filmed this,

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Speaker 1: this is the first scene.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is the kinds of jobs that she has.

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Speaker 1: Right when she's thirteen, she was a waitress and a

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Speaker 1: street kid. She got I've heard different versions of this,

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Speaker 1: of course, she told different versions. She might have gotten

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Speaker 1: kicked out of her house by her parents for having

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Speaker 1: too many pets, like filling family's house with like all

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Speaker 1: of the strays and stuff. So she was living in

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Speaker 1: cardboard boxes and picking food from trash cans, and she

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Speaker 1: would make her money busking by dancing on street corners.

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Speaker 1: Soon she joined a busking crew called the Jones Family

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Speaker 1: Band that traveled around the US. And she got married

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Speaker 1: at the time. And I cannot find how old this

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Speaker 1: person was, so I'm just out of the goodness of

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Speaker 1: my heart guessing it's another thirteen year old. That is

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Speaker 1: what I wish to believe. Because when she's thirteen, she

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Speaker 1: gets married for the first time to someone named Willie Wells.

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Speaker 2: But is that legal?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's legal still in some states with

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Speaker 3: your parents' approval. Maybe it's Dane now, but yeah, like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's the new right wing thing as well.

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Speaker 1: They're busy calling us groomers. They're actually literally working.

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Speaker 2: To get rid of let's sell off children.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're trying to lower the age of marriage or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So she marries Willy Wells. It's an unhappy marriage, as

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Speaker 1: probably any two thirteen years all time. Again, benefit of

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Speaker 1: the doubt here, assuming it was a thirteen year old.

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Speaker 3: When you're like slightly young to really handle the moral

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Speaker 3: complexities of the original Pokemon games, you probably shouldn't be

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Speaker 3: navigating marriage.

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Speaker 1: That is a controversial take to Christian nationalists. They might

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Speaker 1: not like you anymore, Robert.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna lose like thirty percent of our audience.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, don't worry, because when she's fifteen, she finds

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Speaker 1: another Willi.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: She divorces this guy right and doesn't last a year.

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Speaker 1: But when she's fifteen, she finds another Willy Willie Baker,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, look, I've got this thing where I

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Speaker 1: marry people named Willi. So she marries him. This marriage

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Speaker 1: doesn't last either, but she keeps his name, and it's

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Speaker 1: possible that she's never legally divorced. In everything she's doing

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Speaker 1: after this is like various forms of bigamy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, but I don't care.

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Speaker 2: So, like double double divorce at fifteen is kind of

394
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Speaker 2: a flex in a weird way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. This was a lot more common back

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Speaker 3: then too, the whole like people being technically big and

397
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Speaker 3: miskally married, because the way that like different states handled

398
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 3: the sharing of information meant that it was really a

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Speaker 3: lot of shit just out like lost in the male

400
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Speaker 3: effectively totally. I've been dealing with this talking reading about

401
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,919
Speaker 3: like Vince McMahon's family, but this is like around the

402
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,360
Speaker 3: same period of time, and his mom had another thing

403
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 3: where like she was, she had tried to get divorced,

404
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 3: but like it didn't go through for years. Not an

405
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Speaker 3: uncommon story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that makes sense. And yeah, she doesn't want to.

407
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Speaker 1: She actually gets big fights, big fights with her mom,

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Speaker 1: her mom, who's again not the hero of this story,

409
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 1: because her mom is like, why don't you just go

410
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 1: be good to Willie Baker? Why do you keep running

411
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 1: around doing vaudeville and making something of yourself or whatever.

412
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: But if you want to make something for yourself, probably

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00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 1: the way to do it is to buy objects.

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00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 3: Uh huh, that's the only way.

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00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: Yes, And so this podcast is proudly brought to you

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00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: by objects, the only thing that is real according to materialists.

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00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,199
Speaker 2: How do I obtain these objects? They sound great? I

418
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 2: must bring more of them to my house.

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00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the it's the new trend that's sweeping the

420
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 3: world using wow presentations of time and effort, generally in

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00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 3: the form of paper or increasingly numbers on a computer

422
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 3: that you can then trade for physical objects.

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Speaker 2: But I feel like that would like that decrease my

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00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 2: overall feeling of alienation in the world, and let's send

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Speaker 2: me up for objects.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what That's what everyone says about currency. It's

427
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 3: the cure for alienation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, wait, will this convict? Will this convict with the items?

429
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,199
Speaker 1: Oh? Interesting? Are you saying that it should be objects

430
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: and items?

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00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? I'm doing Can I have objects and items? Is

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00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 2: what I'm asking.

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Speaker 3: That really depends on the amount of currency you have, Okay, yeah,

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00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 3: and the.

435
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 2: Law and.

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00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: Mhm yeah, well if you what you really want to

437
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: do is you want to exploit other people's labor.

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Speaker 3: That's where the real current is, right Okay, yeah, yeah.

439
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: Or just buy this stuff objects, items and stuff. Here's

440
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 1: some uds and we're back. So the ages that Justphine

441
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: Baker does things don't line up because she's re rewriting

442
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 1: her life story. So I'm just going to go ahead

443
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: and use her numbers and things, even though they don't work.

444
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: When she was fifteen or so, she joined the Saint

445
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 1: Louis Chorus, maybe the Saint Louis Chorus to her, I'm

446
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: not entirely certain, joined a vaudevilsham and she was off.

447
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: Soon she makes her way up to Harlem and starts

448
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,719
Speaker 1: working in musicals. She has aforementioned ditched her husband at

449
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: this point, and sometimes she's presented as being the Harlem Renaissance,

450
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: which is worth it's a black led revival of black

451
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: culture as compared to like just black culture being promoted

452
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 1: for a white audience, which is we'll get to that later.

453
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 1: And it was created by a ton of black folks

454
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: who are fleeing Jim Crow and the Red Summer in

455
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen, when race riots spread across the country. A

456
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: bunch of people come up and wind up in Harlem,

457
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: and they're pushing for civil rights and they're doing awesome

458
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: cultural stuff. There's a lot of it starts and centers

459
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: around theater and music. No more blackface and minstrel shows,

460
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: but shows that were earnest expressions done by black artists.

461
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: And there's a there's a poem that I'm not going

462
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: to read, but I will suggest to people to read

463
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: called if We Must Die by Claude McKay that was

464
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: part of inspiring all of this. And I'm really just

465
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: mad that this wasn't part of my public school education,

466
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: and that when people talk about Harlem Renaissance, they just

467
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: talk about it culturally, at least white public education or whatever, so.

468
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 2: You don't actually look at the culture know that it happened.

469
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it's like, oh, it's about plays without the

470
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 1: fact that the plays are about like, hey, we should

471
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: fucking fight for what's ours, you know, right, And this

472
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: poem is basically like, look, if we're going to die anyway,

473
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: we should fucking fight back.

474
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 2: I'm looking it up right now.

475
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: And so, so this is the Harlem that Josephine Baker

476
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: shows up into, or she was never really part of

477
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: the Harlem Renaissance and went immediately to Broadway. I don't know.

478
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: Her goal is Broadway. The only way to break into

479
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: show business from her point of view is Broadway. And

480
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 1: since she's fourteen, I know, I just said she's fifteen,

481
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: But now she's fourteen. She's in New York and she's

482
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 1: too young to apply to be a chorus girl. You

483
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: have to be sixteen to be a chorus girl. But

484
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: she doesn't know that. She just knows she's probably too young.

485
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: And the show is called Shuffle Along, so she lies

486
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: and she says she's fifteen, and they're like, no, sorry,

487
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: you have to be sixteen, and they kick her out.

488
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: So she comes back and she lies again and she says,

489
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: I'm seven, and so they put her in. When she's fourteen,

490
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: probably she becomes a chorus girl. She gets the job

491
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: of being on the end of the line, which is

492
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: like the comedy dancer role who intentionally stumbles and such

493
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: for comedic effect. So it's kind of like the it's

494
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: a pretty good position in the chorus line, you know,

495
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: And she tours with it around the country, and she's

496
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: a chorus girl for years. She can't move up beyond

497
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: that because of racism, but it's still enough that she

498
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: starts sending money home to her family constantly, And this

499
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: is going to be a big part of Josephine Baker.

500
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: Does not remember, does not forget where she comes from.

501
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: Even though her family has been terrible to her, she

502
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 2: still sends all this money back.

503
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And like it's possible that her relationship with

504
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: her mother gets better at some point. I don't know,

505
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: you know. So France gets really excited about her La

506
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: Revue Negre, an all black club in Paris, was like, hell, yeah,

507
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: we want you. I don't think it's black owned to

508
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: be clear, but we want you. Everyone here in France

509
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: is obsessed with jazz and black culture, and we'll pay

510
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: you seriously good money. They pay her one thousand dollars

511
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: a month, which is about seventeen thousand dollars a month today,

512
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: which is wow, seriously good money.

513
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 3: Good money.

514
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

515
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's the like, it's like kind of messy,

516
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: right because she leaves segregated us to go to France

517
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 1: that claims to be anti racist, where they put her

518
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: in racist tropes constantly, right, but she is in Yeah.

519
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 3: It's also like they're putting her in racist tropes, but

520
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: everyone else doing those tropes is like having white people

521
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 3: do them in black face. So totally you have to

522
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 3: go her.

523
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, an attempt, An attempt was made.

524
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's they're not having a Humphrey Bogert do it.

525
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 3: So Cas is a win.

526
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again it possibly saves the world. So when

527
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: she's nineteen, in nineteen twenty five, she moves to Paris

528
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: and being celebrated by a racist culture can be good money.

529
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: France was having a craze. White people were all about

530
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: jazz and dancing. The Charleston Modern Black author Morgan Jerkins

531
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: put it like this. When she swung on stage in

532
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: that fiercely swinging banana skirt in nineteen twenty six, Baker

533
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: brilliantly manipulated the white male imagination, crossing her eyes, waving

534
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: her arms, swaying her hips, poking out her backside. She

535
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: clowned and seduced and subverted stereotypes by reclaiming her image,

536
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: she advanced her career in ways unprecedented for a woman

537
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: of that time. Yeah, because her iconic outfit as soon

538
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: as she got there was a skirt made out of

539
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: bananas and a tiny brawl if any braw at all,

540
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: and a large pearl necklace. Hang on, not real banas, No,

541
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: they were fake bananas. Yeah if that sounds really hard

542
00:28:59,680 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: to do.

543
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: But I don't know. Maybe she was just an amazing dancer.

544
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: I love the idea that she was. She was clowning still,

545
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: that she'd taken that being on the end of the

546
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: chorus line and made it part of the thing.

547
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: That is absolutely Yeah, that is absolutely what's happening. And

548
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: her dance savage as I can't pronounce French is at

549
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: Le Revie Negra, was a huge hit. She's an overnight sensation.

550
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: This causes thousands of banana skirt dolls to be sold

551
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: around Europe. Magazines advised white ladies to rub walnut oil

552
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: onto their skin to darken it.

553
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 3: Oh boy, okay, there we go.

554
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Baker herself cashed in on it, selling Baker's Skin. Okay,

555
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: a skin darkening lotion.

556
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:53,479
Speaker 3: When life gives you weird racists, sell wallet. What are

557
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 3: you going to do?

558
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like at a time when everyone else,

559
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: you know, Pe, we're trying to sell the opposite people

560
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: trying to sell skin lightning.

561
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: You know.

562
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: She also sells Baker Fix, which is a hair palmade.

563
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: She had that signature twenty slick down hair, look like.

564
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: Betty Boop, the liddle wave at the front.

565
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: She would do the little curl.

566
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: You weren't hot back then unless your hair could ignite

567
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 3: your entire body like a candle with a single spark

568
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: got on it.

569
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

570
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: If you coven in woolnut, yeah, how burnable, it'll go

571
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: in something very very deliciously smell.

572
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.

573
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 3: This is why this is why we don't really talk

574
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 3: about spontaneous human combustion when it was like a huge,

575
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: you know, conspiracy theory back then. It's because everyone was

576
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 3: drenched in oil and shade, smoking at all times.

577
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder what it must be, Witch Crumb.

578
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go pour gasoline on my head and fall

579
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: asleep with three cigars.

580
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: It's part of the selling point is that everyone hated

581
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: their lives anyway. She also sold banana things like shoes

582
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: and stuff.

583
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: Banana shoes.

584
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. I know she sold banana things

585
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: and shoes. It might be that she sold these might

586
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: be separate objects. I'm not entirely certain. And so she

587
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: becomes fuck off famous and rich and kind of an

588
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: inverse Coco Chanel. I'm just gonna say, who became fuck

589
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: off rich and picked the opposite side of the upcoming war.

590
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: She becomes fuck off famous, She buys a fucking mansion, sorry,

591
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: a chateau. This is friends. It has twenty four rooms,

592
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: and she does classic rich bit shit like she gets

593
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: a cheetah, which she names Chiquita.

594
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 3: Oh that's that's awesome.

595
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: That who has a diamond collar.

596
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 3: I hear. They're the best big cats to have as

597
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 3: I mean, you shouldn't have any big cats as but

598
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 3: if you a pet, but if you are going to,

599
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 3: they're like the most anxious and the most receptive to

600
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 3: human affection.

601
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, noted for future self.

602
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: I mean, hm, the most anxious, possibly illegal exubit pet

603
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 2: you can buy. I'm really glad that I know this now.

604
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that.

605
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: She's she's she's she's filling her house with too many

606
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: animals and now nobody can stop it.

607
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: Oh, it's going to get just wait, No, it's good.

608
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: There's more of them.

609
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: Oh, there's more animals. So I think she basically invents

610
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: the like rich motherfucker gets a cheetah trope. But I'm

611
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: not sure.

612
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 3: Mike Tyson like just just walking in her shadow exactly

613
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 3: like all of us.

614
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to hear the other animals.

615
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: We'll get to them because I don't have their names

616
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: in front of me at this point in the script.

617
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: They're further in the script, so that's why we're going

618
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: to get to them. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

619
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 2: On into its time. I'm just envisioning a version of

620
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 2: Homeward Bound. Now, this is this is, this is the

621
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 2: movie I want to write where Jospey and Bakers off

622
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 2: being a spy or whatever, and then Tiki to the

623
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 2: Cheetah and various other of Jodophine Baker's amazing animals have

624
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: to go on some kind of homeward bound trip across

625
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: Nazi Germany. I think this could work.

626
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: I'm pretty into this, Robert, do you think we can

627
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: get greenlit Netflix?

628
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll work on that. In the background, we'll hollered,

629
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 3: which I mean, I'm going to email my guy in

630
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 3: Central Africa and see if I can smuggle some cheetahs

631
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 3: in this fucking country. Yeah.

632
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I actually wasn't thinking live action, but but

633
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: this is a strong, strong pitch. I love it.

634
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: DHL is delivering my cheetah tomorrow, and.

635
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 1: We got you a couple too, louring mhm.

636
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you can't get them because the Brexit you.

637
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 3: Get a shipping break. You order at six pack. I'll

638
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 3: check one when I fly to the UK next. You

639
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 3: don't worry.

640
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

641
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: So she gets Chakdah nineteen thirty from an exotic animal breeder,

642
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: and it's sort of on the advice of her pr folks.

643
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: I think this is her idea, but they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

644
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: do it because this puts her in the medium even more.

645
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: She goes to the opera and brings her cheetah and

646
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 1: he gets loose and he gets into the orchestra pit

647
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: and he causes havoc. He doesn't eat anybody, and this

648
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: causes international headlines as she disrupts the orchestra at the opera.

649
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: And this is good for her because it's international headlines.

650
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: It's just more fame. Soon she has her own club. Say, Josephine,

651
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: I really can't pronounce French. It's really bad house of Josephine's. Yeah, exactly,

652
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: thank you.

653
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, sound like a giant asshole.

654
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I'll just I'll just highlight the stuff I

655
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: need written read out in French in the script for you.

656
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 1: She is the store attraction at her own club. This

657
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: makes sense some of the other pets that were there

658
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: and included in the acts, And don't worry, this is

659
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: not all of her pets, but some of them are

660
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: the goat, Oh yes, great goat name. And Albert the pig,

661
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: or possibly Albert the pig, depending on how French the

662
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: pig is.

663
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 3: I would say Albert's a good pig name, but Albert not.

664
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: So let's go with Albert.

665
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Albert the bear would be Yeah.

666
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 3: Albert is a great name for a bear. Yeah, because

667
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 3: it reminds me of owl Bears, one of my favorite

668
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 3: D and D monsters.

669
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. She actually has a pet, Albert.

670
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 3: Oh awesome.

671
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, she stole it from a Nazi breeding program.

672
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, brave to keep a CR three pet in

673
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,439
Speaker 3: your in your in your house.

674
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: Oh she's she can handle up to see R twelve

675
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: at least at this point.

676
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 3: Wow. Oh wow. Yeah, that's yeah.

677
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 1: So she wasn't the most famous Black American woman in France,

678
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: she's the most famous American in France and one of

679
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: the most famous Americans in Europe at this point. She's

680
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: also like, she's at least called the most photographed woman

681
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: in the world, and she becomes the first black woman

682
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: to star in a movie. In nineteen twenty seven, she

683
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: stars in Siren of the Tropics, which.

684
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: Is that sounds super unproblematic.

685
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: It's completely unproblematic. It's let me let me just put

686
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: this past you. This is actually I think this would

687
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: fly really well today. It's about a fictional colony that's

688
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: vaguely Polynesian. She's cast as an indigenous woman who falls

689
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: in love with a Frenchman moves to France, only to

690
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: be heartbroken by the fact that he's already engaged so

691
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: she goes out and is happier as a music hall performer.

692
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 4: Anyway, that's not as bad as a really expecting ID,

693
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 4: but the one where it's where the teacher and the

694
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 4: goat in the peg go on a journey across Europe

695
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 4: and like discover the treating the friendship.

696
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 1: But no, no, I agree the positive reviews of it

697
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: will all include the racist things like wow, she moves

698
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: like a wild animal or whatever. This increases her fame.

699
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: She goes on to star in Zazao in nineteen thirty

700
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: four as an and then I think, once again she

701
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: isn't allowed to love the white guy she's in love

702
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 1: with as like the central part of it. Then she's

703
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: Princess Tam Tam, in which she's a Tunisian woman who

704
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: winds up in Paris. Basically there is a trope named

705
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: after her of primitive to Parisian. However, this last one,

706
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: Hollywood sensors refuse to show it in the US, so

707
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: it only plays in select black theaters in the US

708
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: that are ignoring the Hollywood Code or whatever the fuck

709
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: that thing is called. She's an astoundingly good performer. She

710
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: sings opera, she spends a ton of her time driving

711
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: a fancy car into slums with prepared packages for folks,

712
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: like food, blankets, closed, that kind of shit. She just

713
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: like piles high her car with all this stuff and

714
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: shows up and passes it out to everyone because she

715
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: never forgets where she's from. She's also a terrible driver,

716
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: just absolutely awful driver. The driving school passed her because

717
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: they wanted to be able to claim that they were

718
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: the school who taught her, not because they had actually

719
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: successfully taught her. And so at one point she crashes

720
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: her car into a light post and gets out dazed

721
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: and signs autographs and then walks away and takes a

722
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: cab home.

723
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 2: Where any of the animals in the car.

724
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: I hope not none seemed to be harmed. They are

725
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: no animals harmed in the making of this script. She

726
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: was probably bisexual. She's like famously, she was bisexual. She

727
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: was sleeping like famously with other chorus girls and also

728
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: the other famous you know, performers and stuff. At her time.

729
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: She also had a lover who was a gay man,

730
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: and it's very likely that she was doing high end

731
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 1: sex work, but not everywhere, and everyone loved her in Paris,

732
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: the reigning star now in her fifties was a white

733
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: woman named misting Get, whose name I can't pronounce, whose

734
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 1: real name was Gian bourgeoisie or bourgeois gian bourgeois. Uh yeah,

735
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: Josephine was starting to replace this lady. This lady was

736
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: also a racist. She'd say things like, how is I

737
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: forget her name? That colored girl my substitute. That was

738
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: like basically how she constantly referred to to Josephine. One time,

739
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: at a fancy movie premiere, misting Get called Josephine an

740
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: old timey racist word, a pickaninny. So Josephine walked over,

741
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: dug her nails into the woman's arm and spat in

742
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 1: her face. Huh yeah, that's good, legit. Yeah. And she

743
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: also like is like literally this this older lady now

744
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: is like just literally being replaced.

745
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 2: You know.

746
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: It's like she'll be the star of something and they'll

747
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: be like never mind and just phenill come in, right,

748
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 1: And that's good because fuck that lady because she's old

749
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: and racist. But you know what is never racist? Capitalism?

750
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: Is it?

751
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 3: Right?

752
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 2: Is its items? Yeah?

753
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 3: Capitalism is not racist as long as you have enough

754
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 3: money to make not being racist worthwhile.

755
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 2: Yeah right, Yeah, And so it makes total sense.

756
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: We would like you, the listener, to peruse this fine

757
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:37,919
Speaker 1: collection of what is it? Items, objects and stuff. Yeah,

758
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: so so what not tossed in there? Probably that's a

759
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: little bit far. I guess we would take we would

760
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: take what not Okay money, I think, I know, I

761
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: think we could take what not money?

762
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 3: That's okay, stuff things, whatnot.

763
00:40:52,840 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, here you go and we're back. So there's two more.

764
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 1: There's two places that she runs into trouble besides random

765
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: movie premieres with random racists. Didn't. I don't know if

766
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: y'all knew this, but there are a couple places in

767
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: time and geography where instead of individual racists, there's entirely

768
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: large systems of racism. One of those was Germany.

769
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: I think we learned this in school. Yeah, the thing

770
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 2: gets personally.

771
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Germany the only racist country in history.

772
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

773
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty six, she showed up and she was like, whoa,

774
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 1: it rules here because it is bymar Germany, and it rules.

775
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: And she plays a bunch of cabarets or whatever, has

776
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: a good time. Two years later, she's planning six months

777
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: in Berlin and doing shows the whole time, and first

778
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: she shows up in Austria, which is undergrowing Nazi influence,

779
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: and was met with angry mobs and had to be

780
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: escorted around by armed guards because she is the fucking

781
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 1: living embodiment of not Nazi. She is a slightly black,

782
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: she is unashamedly sexual and bisexual. So basically they're like

783
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: this is yeah, this I mean, and that's actually like

784
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 1: literally part of it. It's funny because it's like you

785
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: look at this, like, Okay, she's playing up to these

786
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 1: like kind of racist tropes, you know this, like dulcavage

787
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: or whatever. But literally the fact that the French were

788
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: okay with that was part of why Germany was like

789
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: we fucking hate the degenerate French because they're okay with

790
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: a black woman. So yeah, there's a.

791
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 3: Really funny story from kind of the early era of

792
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 3: the Third Reich when they held Gebels. I think is

793
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 3: going to put it together this big exhibition that was

794
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 3: the degenerate art Exhibition. I actually know the German but

795
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 3: I know I'll pronounce it wrong if I say it,

796
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 3: but it's like they did this big exhibition that was

797
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 3: supposed to be I think it was contrast with like,

798
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 3: you know, decent you know, Arian art.

799
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 2: Roper German arts proper Arean art which which all looks

800
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 2: like Tom of Finland.

801
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 3: People kept hanging out listening to the jazz and looking

802
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,479
Speaker 3: at like the degenerate art because it was good.

803
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, actually, and gebels Uh definitely know Josephine Baker

804
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: by name, and multiple times was specifically like Josephine Baker

805
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: is the enemy. That's which is a yeah, it speaks

806
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: well of you.

807
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 3: You know.

808
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: There's actually a part I didn't put it in a script.

809
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: At one point, Hitler goes to ah fuck, he goes

810
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: to some country and he goes to like the fanciest hotel,

811
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: and they put him in the fanciest room in the

812
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: fanciest hotel and there's a giant portrait of Josephine Baker

813
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: above the bed, and he's angry. He's so angry.

814
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 2: Was it there before her?

815
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god? Yeah, And I hope whoever did that

816
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: to him survives. Yeah, So there's angry mobs. She has

817
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: to be escorted around. She goes to Berlin planning the

818
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: six month run of a show. She's stalked and harassed

819
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: and jeered people yell, go back to Africa and a

820
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: lot of other less nice things. Nazi papers are mad

821
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: that she was like ruining her co star this like

822
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: nice blonde lady. After three weeks she leaves, she flees,

823
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: She's like, I can't fucking do this, and she goes

824
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: back to Paris. But so the Nazis didn't like her.

825
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: Do you know where else struggled with racism only for

826
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: a brief moment, obviously, it's never had racism before after

827
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: this place?

828
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 2: Right?

829
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 3: Canada?

830
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: Similar the United States in the nineteen twenties thirties.

831
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 3: Really Mexico's Canada.

832
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mexico's Canada.

833
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: So I'm trying really hard to do this. U isn't here, Yeah, practicing, No,

834
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 2: I appreciate. How's it doing? Thank you?

835
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: It's great because actually what you're doing is you're changing

836
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 1: the tone of your sarcasm to go from British sarcasm

837
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: which goes above the heads of all Americans and instead

838
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: trying to do amza.

839
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: No, no, no, it's because you think that, because that's just

840
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 2: because I'm never doing it.

841
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: Ah, okay, okay, good to know.

842
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah it's not. I've let you were in a

843
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,439
Speaker 2: little secret there, which is sometimes like it's British people

844
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: are not. We just sound like if it doesn't actually

845
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,919
Speaker 2: mean we're clever. And you have to know British people

846
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: for a little bit before you realize this, and then

847
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: it's just slightly worse for us. And then we go

848
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 2: home and come back and try to find some new

849
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: Americans who haven't yet been nam on this trick that.

850
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: Makes a lot of sense and explains a lot of

851
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: things so great. In nineteen thirty six, she goes back

852
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: to Broadway and she's hoping for this whole I mean,

853
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: she's like one of the most famous people in the

854
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 1: fucking world, right, She's a millionaire, she owns goddamn mansion, sorry,

855
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: a chateau, like most photographed woman in the world. Like,

856
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: clearly the US's racism will like make some exceptions for

857
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: Josephine Baker. She can't find a hotel to let her

858
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 1: stay in New York City. Whoa her Japanese friends, chauffeur

859
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: from the from the Japanese embassy. He's afraid of being

860
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 1: seen driving around a black woman. The New York Times

861
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: calls her a negro wench Oh boy, yeah, she opens up.

862
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: She opens up her own club, also called Josephine. Sorry,

863
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: I should have highlighted that for you, Robert, thank you,

864
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 1: But it wasn't really working the same way to a

865
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: US audience. It's just like, didn't the US audience was

866
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: segregated essentially, you know, And.

867
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 2: This is really sad. It's just really sad, like you're

868
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: suddenly facing all this stuff like Germany, and then you

869
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: come home and it's even worse. I don't know, it's

870
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: something that sorry, I'm not being very clever. No, no,

871
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 2: I mean it's like the the having like I don't know,

872
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: you must she must have felt like, you know, having

873
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 2: been in France for that time, that she finally got

874
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 2: away from some stuff well, that things could be all right,

875
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 2: but then it was just this one place that was

876
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: just a little bit better, even though she had to

877
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 2: make those but it kind of sounds like in France

878
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 2: she got to she got to choose which compromises.

879
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: To make, yeah, totally totally, and the US won't let

880
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 1: her make those decisions, and then Germany wants to just

881
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: murder her. Right, so she's like, all right, fuck you.

882
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: She leaves, she goes and she becomes a French citizen.

883
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: She goes back to France, she becomes a French citizen

884
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: maybe depending on the specifics of some bigamy stuff. But

885
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 1: she marries this Jewish sugar magnate whose name is Jean

886
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: Lyon or Jean Lyon or something.

887
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: Oh like from like, yeah, yeah, that's the brand of

888
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 2: sugar that like we have in the oh really yeah, yeah,

889
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 2: Lions Sugar.

890
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: Oh that's funny. Yeah, that's that's what family she marries into.

891
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 1: And she doesn't take the name Lion, even though everything

892
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: she does is animal themed, which is like kind of

893
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 1: good on her, you know. And apparently he proposed while

894
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: the two of them were flying in a plane, sorry,

895
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: he was flying a plane that she was in, because

896
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 1: he's a bored rich guy and so he wanted to

897
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: learn how to fly, so he went again. Yeah, but

898
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: he teaches her how to fly, and this is going

899
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: to come up in really cool ways in World War Two.

900
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: The marriage was always a bit rocky because they're both

901
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: uncompromising about their own careers, his business and politics, hers

902
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: his show business. But he teaches her how to fly,

903
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: and it's possible. She never technically divorced Willie Baker, but

904
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: it's a different country. Who fucking cares. Everyone is obsessed

905
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: with her. Hemingway spends hours chatting her up and right

906
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: her about her. Picasso paints her.

907
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, that must have been so crazy.

908
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 2: I can just imagine it being naked constantly and it's

909
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: aving away. See.

910
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: I like to imagine that it's while Picasso's painting her,

911
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: and they're both just like sort of taking turns trying

912
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: to hit on her.

913
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 3: Wow, that's like the Battle of the Problematic Kings. Yeah,

914
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 3: the two most problematic men in our history both hitding

915
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 3: on you at once.

916
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: Oh Dolly, isn't there Oh yeah, yeah, you're right.

917
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 3: They are all retroactively canceled.

918
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is her life. She now lives in,

919
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: I think, still the same chateau with the Lion family,

920
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: all of the ship rules. She's amazing, she's doing cool stuff.

921
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: But that's not what we're here to talk about with her.

922
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about how she was a badass,

923
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: fucking spy, crucial part of the machine that ripped apart

924
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: fascism limb by limb, but one messy part. In nineteen

925
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 1: thirty five, she vocally supported Mussolini's invasion of Ethiopia because

926
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: that's because he said he was going in there to

927
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: end slavery, and she was like, sick, I hate slavery. Yeah,

928
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: well grandparents I think maybe great maybe great grandparents. I

929
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: don't remember which, but don't worry. Not only is she

930
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: more than make up for this mistake. Oddly it works

931
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: out against Mussolini that she did so that she like

932
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: supported him to begin with. And we'll talk about that

933
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: on Wednesday. That's my cliffhanger.

934
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, exciting man, old purbageous.

935
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 1: All right, Laurie, do you have any plugs you want

936
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: to plug here at the end of the first episode.

937
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 2: Well, you could good buy any of my more recent books.

938
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 2: Got a bit doctrine. I've got Sexual Revolution, and they're

939
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: available from lots of different bookshops. And although I don't

940
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 2: mind if you steal one, that's that's fair, I think

941
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: for this podcast, and honestly I don't mind. It's you

942
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 2: don't write books to make money? Come on, we'll not No,

943
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,479
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say that you should write books to make money,

944
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 2: but just in case, I think people should read them anyway.

945
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 2: And if you want to read my work entirely for

946
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 2: free above board and the distimately, just like search them

947
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:30,879
Speaker 2: my articles and wired.

948
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: Or go to a library, and don't steal it from

949
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 1: the library.

950
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, we don't really have those anymore in

951
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 2: the UK for thirteen years of conservative all over here.

952
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 2: So you forgetting.

953
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I guess, yeah, fair enough.

954
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 2: The nurses are on strike today.

955
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:52,399
Speaker 3: That's good.

956
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's also a bit dangerous, but you know

957
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 2: they should be on strike.

958
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sophie, do you have anything you want to plug?

959
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 4: Uh?

960
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know the get a pig. Get a pet, pig,

961
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 3: steal it from one of those horrible places where they

962
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 3: keep thousands of pigs pinned together above rivers of shit,

963
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 3: and then take it home and make it your friend.

964
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: That's what just bad would I think that is what

965
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: it would do. Yeah, and I want to plug that.

966
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: People should plant trees. No, actually, the way that people

967
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: go out and randomly plant trees and large numbers doesn't

968
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: always actually work. Do good things instead of bad things.

969
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: That's my search. How to plant trees in a way

970
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 1: that helps and then do that? Yeah, do that and

971
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: we will talk to you all on Wednesday. Cool People

972
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

973
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

974
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 2: Coolzonemedia Dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

975
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts of