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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Monday, February sixteenth, and yes,

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Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines. Opening statements in

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Speaker 2: this trial that we've been following very closely. Colin Gray,

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Speaker 2: he's the father accused of supplying his teen's son with

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Speaker 2: a gun and then the sun was an active shooter.

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Speaker 2: Plus Corey Richins, we spoke about them last night as well,

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Speaker 2: accused of killing her husband with fentanyl. And remember this

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Speaker 2: is the same person that wrote that book for her

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Speaker 2: children about grieving and here she stands trial woof. And

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Speaker 2: also we're doing a deep dive into Jeffrey Epstein, so

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Speaker 2: we're taking this in Choks. We're going to really focus

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Speaker 2: tonight on the Zoro Ranch, the ranch in New Mexico.

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Speaker 2: It's very current in the news right now. It's a

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Speaker 2: small section of the Epstein story, but it's a relevant

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Speaker 2: one because we're really now learning through the files that

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Speaker 2: it's never been it's really never been investigated, and there's

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Speaker 2: been stories and allegations that have come from that location

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Speaker 2: for so so long, and as of tonight breaking news,

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Speaker 2: they are officially starting an investigation.

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Speaker 3: Into that ranch.

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Speaker 2: So some really important things to uncover there as well.

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Speaker 2: Plus the search continues for Nancy Guthrie, so we want

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Speaker 2: to give you the new details with that as well.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with my two favorite ladies, Courtney

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Speaker 2: Armstrong and Body move in.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, We got a full house.

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Speaker 2: We have, of course, our producer Taha with us and

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Speaker 2: Sam and Adam and Adam, I might add has been

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Speaker 2: working tirelessly behind the scenes during the day with Ava,

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Speaker 2: our associate producer in Taha, and they're putting together this,

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Speaker 2: this real presentation.

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Speaker 3: He has questions that he needs answers for her. We

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Speaker 3: are going to answer them.

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Speaker 2: So welcome to the rabbit Hole. And I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I should hug you or apologize to you, but

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Speaker 2: it is hard to come out.

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Speaker 3: So pleasure to be here, Pleasure to be here. Boy,

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Speaker 3: I don't even know where to start.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, ladies, Hi, Happy Monday, Monday.

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Speaker 4: It's really rainy. I feel like I should be curled

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Speaker 4: up in bed right now watching like Bravo with you

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Speaker 4: or something like well not we love that and like

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Speaker 4: eating ice cream, or we.

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Speaker 5: Could be watching the new documentary which is not true

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Speaker 5: crime but feels true crime adjacent.

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Speaker 3: It's on America's Next Top Model. Everybody's talking about it.

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Speaker 3: I loved that show. Wait weight he.

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Speaker 2: As one of the I said in the trailer at

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Speaker 2: age liked sour milk.

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Speaker 1: Wait.

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Speaker 2: So are the people that's a scan on the show

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Speaker 2: coming back with a vengeance they're mad about how they

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Speaker 2: were treated?

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Speaker 5: Well, they're on it, but ps so is Tyra, Miss Jay,

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Speaker 5: mister j Nigel. So no, everyone's there and the producer

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Speaker 5: can mock. I want to say, you know, they're all

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Speaker 5: participated and we're all like.

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Speaker 3: Twenty twenty hinds that yeah, oh wow, Just what's it

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Speaker 3: on Netflix? And like what's the takeaway is?

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Speaker 6: There?

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Speaker 2: Was there a takeaway that really stuck with you now

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Speaker 2: in hindsight.

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Speaker 5: I mean I'm just started it like this evening, really,

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Speaker 5: but just what a different time.

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Speaker 3: It's what a different time it was? Yeah?

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Speaker 5: And it does it opens up and it's when like

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Speaker 5: Brittany and Lindsay Lohan everyone weighed eighty seven pounds Calista flock.

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Speaker 2: Cart on that show. Now I feels different. Kate Moss,

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Speaker 2: Kate Moss, very skinny. Wasn't it called like heroin chic

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Speaker 2: or something back then? Yeah, I was watching. I was

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Speaker 2: looking for some perfume today and that Obsession commercial came

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Speaker 2: up with Kate and I loved it. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh my gosh, I remember that.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I used to durround myself in obsession too.

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Speaker 4: Oh my mom, Yeah, they do. I was fifteen and

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Speaker 4: I wanted it so bad for Christmas and my mom

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Speaker 4: got me the gift set and it was like my

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Speaker 4: first perfume, you know. And it came with powder, it

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Speaker 4: came with shampoo and condish, I used overything all a. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So my mom was like, maybe not, you know, maybe

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Speaker 3: maybe not so much with the Obsessions. We're a little obsessed.

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Speaker 3: I was a little obsession with Obsession. I went away

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Speaker 3: the shampoo. Yeah, I get it. I love a gift box.

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Speaker 3: I digress, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I guess we should start with and we should

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Speaker 2: go through the whole world is looking for her. There's

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Speaker 2: been so many new developments TMZ of course, getting yet

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Speaker 2: another note impossible to imagine how even fill us in. Well,

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Speaker 2: let's go to a talk about Let's okay, off to

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Speaker 2: a talk about. Hi.

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Speaker 8: My name is Kimberly. I have a question about the

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Speaker 8: Nancy Gustrie case. I'm just wondering if anybody said anything

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Speaker 8: about how if there was any fourced entry into the

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Speaker 8: house or anything that actually happened in the house. Like,

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Speaker 8: I haven't heard anything about that. I'm not sure if

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Speaker 8: it was mentioned and I just missed it. If you

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Speaker 8: guys heard anything, I'd love to hear it. But otherwise,

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Speaker 8: you guys are doing a great job. I love listening

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Speaker 8: to you guys on the way home from work. It

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Speaker 8: gets me through my hour drive.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is listen.

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Speaker 4: It is confusing, and I'll tell you why early on

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Speaker 4: The Guardian actually, which is a pretty great paper, reputable,

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Speaker 4: very reputable. I say paper like old and fashioned times,

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Speaker 4: but you know, an outlet right, let me get my

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Speaker 4: prairie ragged and put my niggers on.

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Speaker 3: It's like I get it. No, you're like, hear ye,

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Speaker 3: hear ye, hear ye, hear ye.

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Speaker 4: Well, the Guardian they had they had mentioned that the

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Speaker 4: sheriff Office said that, you know, based on forced entry

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Speaker 4: and blood on the porch.

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Speaker 3: They they declared it a crime.

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Speaker 4: Right, this was very early on, well, when the sheriff

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Speaker 4: gave a news conference on the fifth of February, So

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Speaker 4: this is what four days after he said that he

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Speaker 4: never said that, so in that you didn't know where

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Speaker 4: that came from. He said, you know, whether it's forced

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Speaker 4: entry or not fourth century, that is something we're just

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Speaker 4: not going to confirm. And then he went on to say,

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Speaker 4: I don't know where anybody got that information regarding reports

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Speaker 4: of the fourth entry. So I know other outlets said

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Speaker 4: I'm not picking on the Guardian here, I know other

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Speaker 4: outlets said it too. That's just the one I remember,

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Speaker 4: just because I like the Guardian and I read it

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Speaker 4: a lot. And so, yeah, you have every right to

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Speaker 4: be confused. But as of right now, the sheriffs they're

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Speaker 4: not confirming that we don't know.

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Speaker 3: Right, which is a huge piece of this puzzle.

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Speaker 2: It is so are they assuming that this was maybe

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Speaker 2: a burglary gone wrong? Perhaps, and then it's cast such

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Speaker 2: such national attention that it's spiraled and went sideways. Is

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Speaker 2: that possible? But then what about these continued notes to TMZ.

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Speaker 4: Oh, this is okay, I can't handle any more ransom notes.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, TMZ got another letter and you know it's

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Speaker 4: basically saying that they have information on the kidnapper and

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Speaker 4: they'll give it to them in exchange for bitcoin. And

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Speaker 4: you know this is the fourth one that they've gotten.

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Speaker 9: Wow.

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Speaker 4: And you know, Savannah Guthrie stated, we need to know

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Speaker 4: Nancy is alive before negotiating, so they still need proof

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Speaker 4: of life, which has not of course come through on

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Speaker 4: any of these emails on it. You know, are they

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Speaker 4: all fake? Are they are people like trolling this family?

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Speaker 4: I really pray that's not the case. I believe that

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Speaker 4: people would not do that. I know we have a

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Speaker 4: person behind bars who did just that. But collectively speaking,

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Speaker 4: that's a real super low that I think is wildly

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Speaker 4: uncommon and really dangerous. Right, So, this person's putting themselves

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Speaker 4: out there again and again again. This is the person

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Speaker 4: who claims, according to TMZ, to know who has Nancy

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Speaker 4: Guthrie right, and is therefore putting their lives in jeopardy

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Speaker 4: and therefore once x amount of bitcoin. And now they've

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Speaker 4: gone back to the well several times as of today.

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Speaker 4: I mean, imagine you're working at TMZ though you must

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Speaker 4: be what do you do about the idea that somehow

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Speaker 4: you're even this is a person's life we're speaking about, right,

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Speaker 4: And I mean, if it were me, I'd be like, well,

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Speaker 4: it's going to go to the car, so that I'm

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Speaker 4: not going to course. But at the same time, if

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Speaker 4: they send it to TMZ and it's real, they want

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Speaker 4: the you know, it to be read out right, they

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Speaker 4: want information out to the public. I mean, why go

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Speaker 4: to TMZ? Otherwise why not go to the police, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Like, I think it's a big clue because it doesn't

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Speaker 2: seem to be particularly partisan, if that makes sense. Maybe,

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Speaker 2: you know, so many of the news outlets seem specifically

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Speaker 2: right or left or something. I'm guessing right now this

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Speaker 2: is just personal theory shooting from the hip, whereas TMZ

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Speaker 2: sort of has you know, pop culture true crime adjacent

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Speaker 2: and doesn't seem to fall in either of those categories.

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Speaker 4: Right, maybe, Well, so the you know, they're still investigating

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Speaker 4: everything in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie again, she's the

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Speaker 4: mother of Today's show co host Suvannah Guthrie. In Today's

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Speaker 4: say sixteen, you know, authorities appear to really be focusing

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Speaker 4: focusing on this DNA evidence from this glove they found

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Speaker 4: right near her home in Tucson, and any potential leads

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Speaker 4: from this Walmart backpack. So apparently this backpack is only

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Speaker 4: sold at Walmart.

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Speaker 3: It's eleven dollars.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I mean it would be a lot nicer

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Speaker 5: if it was exclusive to some mom and pop shot.

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Speaker 4: I agreas Walmart, Like, that's right, I definitely agreed. But

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Speaker 4: it's definitely lead. I mean, it's definitely need. They can

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Speaker 4: get all the sales records from nationwide. They can get

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Speaker 4: all the sales records.

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Speaker 3: Right, exhausting work.

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Speaker 2: Again, you look at law enforcement sometimes and you're like,

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Speaker 2: that is an exhausting job.

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Speaker 3: That's what they have to do.

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Speaker 2: They have to go back and backlog everybody who purchased

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Speaker 2: that particular backpack that was eleven dollars and then find

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Speaker 2: the footage that maybe finds them walking in the parking lot.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully they didn't pay in cash, because if they did,

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Speaker 2: there's a credit card.

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Speaker 3: It takes a lot of work, right.

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Speaker 4: In related news, the Pima County Sheriff's Office released a

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Speaker 4: statement today and they basically said the family is cleared.

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Speaker 3: Did you guys see this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I am so surprised by this, because how can

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Speaker 2: you clear anybody without a body, right, and I don't

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Speaker 2: mean a dead body, but like a body in general,

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Speaker 2: like without Nancy or any other evidence.

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Speaker 3: It's very strange.

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Speaker 4: But they did confirm all family members, including Nancy's three

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Speaker 4: children and their spouses, have been cleared and of any suspicion,

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Speaker 4: describing the family as victims in this case, and noting

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Speaker 4: that they've been totally cooperative, right. They went on to say.

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Speaker 4: They went on to say, they kind of addressed the media.

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Speaker 4: They said, you know, they want the media to exercise

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Speaker 4: professionalism and compassion when reporting on the case, saying that

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Speaker 4: suggesting the family is anything other than victims was cruel.

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Speaker 4: I don't recall any time a statement like this has

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Speaker 4: ever been made. I maybe there has, but I just

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Speaker 4: cannot recall another time when this season.

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Speaker 6: I mean, clearing the entire family, clearing.

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Speaker 4: The clearing, clearing people, when the case isn't you know,

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Speaker 4: even remotely solved, and saying you know that, you know,

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Speaker 4: noting that the family anything other than the victim is cruel.

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Speaker 3: I tend to agree.

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Speaker 4: I think it is cruel, but how I mean, I

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Speaker 4: just think it's I just think it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: So you're referring to the initial reports that Ashley Bearfield

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Speaker 2: made is a band Field Banfield had made regarding you know,

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Speaker 2: a brother in law, and you know, listen, we purposely

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Speaker 2: didn't want to get super into it because it had

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Speaker 2: been wildly misreported. And again, it's a person's life, you know,

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Speaker 2: you don't want to That's not the kind of thing

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Speaker 2: you can be wrong about. And then that kind of

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Speaker 2: went away, And listen, it's very appropriate for family members

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Speaker 2: or the inner circle around anybody who's been abducted at

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Speaker 2: eighty four years old. Yeah, you're going to look at

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Speaker 2: the family members, you're going to look at spouse's, you're

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Speaker 2: going to look at the closest people at the office.

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Speaker 3: That's appropriate.

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Speaker 2: So I always find it odd that people are so

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Speaker 2: resistant to that or take such offense to it. You

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Speaker 2: want to get yourself cleared to kind of get the

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Speaker 2: focus you know elsewhere.

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Speaker 4: Of course, well, and things got worse when the surveillance

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Speaker 4: video came out, because you know, the guy had like

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Speaker 4: a mustache and a little kind of maybe beard, and

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Speaker 4: then that I think maybe ramped up suspicion against this.

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Speaker 3: You know, this poor brother in law, who I mean, yeah, yeah, you.

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Speaker 5: Know, I was thinking back body, and I do feel

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Speaker 5: like that people are cleared before. So in the case

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Speaker 5: of let's say a murder not an abduction, Yeah, that's

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Speaker 5: so and so has been cleared. If you know, a

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Speaker 5: husband finds a wife. I'm thinking of a case that

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Speaker 5: I'm forgetting.

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Speaker 4: So I'm thinking missing though. I'm sorry, missing people. I

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Speaker 4: just don't recall.

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Speaker 3: There's no finality.

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Speaker 2: We're still we're still acting as though and you know,

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Speaker 2: God willing, this is a living person. This is still

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Speaker 2: an active, open investigation for a missing person right where

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Speaker 2: we assume we could make any assumptions based on medications,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. But how is it possible that somebody could

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Speaker 2: pull this off? Everybody is looking for Nancy Guthrie right now.

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Speaker 5: Everybody, I mean even President Trump again had something to say,

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Speaker 5: and he went so far as to warn captors that

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Speaker 5: they would face the most severe federal consequences and that

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Speaker 5: includes capital punishment.

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Speaker 4: Assuming this is going to be federal, Like, why would

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Speaker 4: he assume this is going to be federal?

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Speaker 3: Well, the FBI is already involved.

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Speaker 4: The FBI is involved in a lot of kids, I

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Speaker 4: mean a lot of cases that are let's unpect that.

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Speaker 2: That's an interesting point though, so meaning Tucson making it.

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Speaker 2: This has sort of been under a very specific jurisdiction

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Speaker 2: FBI meaning federal was brought in. But again to your points,

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Speaker 2: including on Native American reservations, et cetera. So that's appropriate.

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Speaker 2: But to assume perhaps, yeah, that's interesting. Well, I you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm told that President Trump has asked Cash Pattel to

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Speaker 2: make this happen.

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Speaker 3: So I'm hoping that we have her safe return please.

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Speaker 2: I mean, all the technology that's being put to you,

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Speaker 2: so now the DNA that we're watching be built, and

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Speaker 2: it's such tremendous, it has such tremendous playlong, but at

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Speaker 2: the core, this is the most devastating imagine.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, So obviously we'll keep you up to date

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Speaker 5: as soon as we hear more information. But when we

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Speaker 5: come back, we're going to get into the Colin Gray trial.

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Speaker 5: He's the father accused of giving his son a rifle

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Speaker 5: before a deadly school shooting. Later, we're going behind the

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Speaker 5: gates of Jeffrey Epstein's New Mexico ranch.

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Speaker 3: True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back at True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body Moven. Listen, we're getting into your talkbacks.

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Speaker 2: We are also unpacking all things Nancy Guthrie, but also

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Speaker 2: we want to make sure we're using these skills and

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Speaker 2: some of the things that we're learning about this case

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Speaker 2: specifically in other cases as well. Unfortunately, this is not

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Speaker 2: the only missing person's case, and we want to make

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Speaker 2: sure we're highlighting some new ones as well, because it's

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Speaker 2: really clear that we all care and want answers for

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Speaker 2: the Guthrie family, and I think we can continue that

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Speaker 2: energy and maybe even.

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Speaker 3: Wide in the net. So, Courtney, where would you.

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Speaker 5: Like us to begin, Well, I'd like to begin with

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Speaker 5: another Really it's a parallel story to Nancy Guthries, except

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Speaker 5: we're not hearing about it in a twenty four hour cycle.

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Speaker 5: So a sixty nine year old African American grandmother. She's

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Speaker 5: missing out of Coral Springs, Florida, and police suspect that

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Speaker 5: she could be in really serious danger. So her name

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Speaker 5: is Lenise Demosthenos, and she disappeared January thirtieth, which is

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Speaker 5: the same last day that Nancy Gothrie was seen, and

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Speaker 5: investigators believe that she could be suffering from cognitive issues

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Speaker 5: that put her in even more heightened risk and all

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Speaker 5: these you know, what are we Eighteen days later, she

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Speaker 5: has not been found.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 6: Wow.

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Speaker 5: So just a little bit more information about her. She

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Speaker 5: was last seen on foot in her Coral Springs, Florida neighborhood.

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Speaker 5: The block, if you're familiar with it, is twelve fifty

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Speaker 5: Northwest fifty sixth Street, and she was carrying a dark

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Speaker 5: linen grocery bag. So the thought is she was out

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Speaker 5: for a quick errand or a walk. And she's not

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Speaker 5: just classified as missing, but police also have classified her

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Speaker 5: as endangered due to their medical concerns, because that's a

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Speaker 5: big thing.

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Speaker 2: A takeaway too is thinking ahead for medications just in general,

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Speaker 2: whether you're an elder or looking after someone or even

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Speaker 2: for yourself in the event of an emergency or you know,

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Speaker 2: a wind event or something that you have that stuff.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So this, I mean, that's really there's just not

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Speaker 5: that much more information, as is the case of many

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Speaker 5: of abductions. But Lenise demos Thanos. She is about five three,

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Speaker 5: about one hundred and forty pounds, and was last seen

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Speaker 5: in all black, including a black head covering, tea, jeans

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Speaker 5: and a hoodie, and then seniors also can experience particular

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Speaker 5: cognitive decline and elevated risk of dehydration, exposure, traffic danger,

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Speaker 5: and inability to seek help.

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Speaker 3: So it's really did.

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Speaker 10: She have do we know, like a history of of

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Speaker 10: like any kind of.

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Speaker 11: Leaving Not my knowledge, there were there was something that

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Speaker 11: reported that she had wandered from her home once before,

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Speaker 11: so she previously wandered from her home, so so this

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Speaker 11: has happened at least once before. And just to clarify

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Speaker 11: one thing, we're not sure. This is not in the

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Speaker 11: abduction category. This is just a missing case, so we

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Speaker 11: don't know the situation. Be course, if there's any number

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Speaker 11: or anything like that that we can give out to

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Speaker 11: maybe have people who can give some help, that would

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Speaker 11: be wonderful.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, if you have any information, the Coral Springs Police

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Speaker 5: Department is at nine five four three four six one

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Speaker 5: seven five seven, And any small details, any security footage

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Speaker 5: or neighborhood sightings could be critical.

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Speaker 3: And that's such an important I'm glad.

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Speaker 5: You clarified, Taha that detail that I miss that she

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Speaker 5: had wandered off, because that's an increased risk. I don't

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Speaker 5: know if you guys have either had personal experiences or

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Speaker 5: no people who have family members with dementia, and that

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Speaker 5: is very real.

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Speaker 3: It's one of the scariest things.

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Speaker 4: I really worry about that with myself on being self here,

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Speaker 4: I'm scared of Bena.

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Speaker 2: It's always that you will You're you're going to have dementia.

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Speaker 2: You're going to be the one wandering. Yeah, you think

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Speaker 2: you're going to get away that quick?

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Speaker 3: Oh no no, no no.

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Speaker 4: No, that's terrifying, like not in just like not recognizing

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Speaker 4: people and being afraid and I'm afraid, very scary and

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Speaker 4: very sad, you know, disease.

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Speaker 3: It is so sad. Oh my goodness. Well, I hope

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Speaker 3: they find her.

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Speaker 6: I agree surfing this cross with that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, hopefully people. Hopefully people will find and call that number.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. We also have updates on a trial if perfect. Okay,

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Speaker 5: So this is something we've been talking about quite a bit.

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Speaker 5: Back in September of twenty twenty four, there was a

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Speaker 5: shooting at Appalachi High School and that was perpetrated by,

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Speaker 5: allegedly by fourteen year old shooter and student Colt Gray Well.

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Speaker 3: Today, the trial of his father, Colin.

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Speaker 2: Gray began in Georgia and the father faces twenty nine charges.

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Speaker 2: He faces two counts each of second degree murder and

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Speaker 2: involuntary manslaughter, as well as multiple counts of cruelty to

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Speaker 2: children reckless conduct, and this relates to allowing his son

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Speaker 2: access to a firearm. If indeed he's convicted and again,

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Speaker 2: trials just getting going, he faces up to one hundred

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Speaker 2: and eighty years in prison. And his son, the alleged shooter,

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Speaker 2: Colt Gray, he's sixteen now and he has been charged

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Speaker 2: with an adult and he has his own fifty five

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Speaker 2: felony counts and his wedding trial.

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Speaker 3: He didn't just give him access. He bought him a weapon, right,

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Speaker 3: And even many people do many, but not purpose.

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Speaker 4: They're having fantasies. This kid had fantasies of doing a

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Speaker 4: school shooting, didn't he.

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Speaker 2: He had a fight, in fact, to a specific school shooter.

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Speaker 2: And also a relevant point is his school had also

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Speaker 2: reached out specifically to dad, because there's all this you know,

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Speaker 2: school shooter awareness stuff.

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Speaker 3: Back to the shrine had a shrine, Yeah he did.

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Speaker 5: There's surveillance and testimony that indicated that Colt Gray, the

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Speaker 5: alleged shooter, he had a shrine to Nicholas Cruz, who

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Speaker 5: was the Parkland shooter.

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Speaker 3: That was in his road.

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Speaker 2: It was like hasted up on his bedroom wall, almost

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Speaker 2: like you would have like the Dreamy Boys or you know,

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Speaker 2: surf pictures, right, and instead it was this particular shooter.

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Speaker 2: Lock this guy up through yeah, well, and on the

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Speaker 2: father fathers and knowledge that he had prior to the shooting,

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Speaker 2: which you know many times can go come blindly at

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Speaker 2: a parent.

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Speaker 3: Of a perpetrator.

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Speaker 5: But authorities had for a long time express concern over

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Speaker 5: Colt Gray, the son, and his mental health and behavior.

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Speaker 5: And in twenty twenty three law enforcement actually questioned the

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Speaker 5: family about online threats to commit a school shooting.

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Speaker 4: So he had and making threats online, that's right, The

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Speaker 4: authorities were alerted. They questioned the dad, and then he

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Speaker 4: still bought his kid a gun.

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Speaker 5: Right and further patting the And then he also had

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Speaker 5: warning signs including self harm, aggression, truancy, and again that

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Speaker 5: fascination with past school shooting.

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Speaker 2: His mental illness too, that was beginning to become very

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Speaker 2: well documented at this point as well. If I'm not mistaken.

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Speaker 2: He was also new to this school, which I'm curious.

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Speaker 3: To learn more about.

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Speaker 2: If it was that, was that an inciting incident? Was

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Speaker 2: there anything to be gleaned from that he rolled into

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Speaker 2: this new school and it was really a nightmare transition.

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Speaker 3: Is that accurate?

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Speaker 8: Court?

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Speaker 3: I believe it is.

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Speaker 5: But I also want to do some more research just

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00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 5: on the family in general. I think that would be

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Speaker 5: important to understand. I know there's some complicated dynamics.

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Speaker 4: I mean there always are, yeah, I mean, what do

440
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 4: you guys think. I'm listen, I have guns. You know,

441
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 4: I have weapons. I believe in the Second Amendment and

442
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 4: all that, and I don't believe parents should be held

443
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 4: responsible for things they're grown up children do most times.

444
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 4: But in this case, I'm this is ridiculous. You don't

445
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 4: buy your child a weapon when they're fantasizing about school

446
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 4: shootings and threatening online to do a school shooting, and

447
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 4: you have a shrine to a school shooter. Like, what

448
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 4: is this guy thinking? What do you guys say?

449
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 2: I mean, it's such a no brainer. It's like not

450
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 2: even worth like the circle around. I can't even come

451
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: up with a Devil's advocate response because it's now in

452
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: his defense, Dad is saying basically that he's innocent of

453
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: these charges and that the intention, while in retrospect may

454
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 2: seem silly, was to maybe get his son better prepared

455
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: by better understanding how to utilize a gun.

456
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 3: Prepare for what? Prepared? Yeah, I don't. Yeah, so just

457
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 3: oh my god, listen, this is crazy.

458
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 2: It's really an important case though, and it's one that

459
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 2: I'm really glad we're covering and we want to really

460
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: pay close attention to because it's it's really one of

461
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: only a few of its kinds, you know, the Bromley's.

462
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 2: That's the husband and wife that we're both found guilty

463
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: up both in Michigan for their the murderous I don't

464
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 2: even know what to call it, the worst school shooter,

465
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: yeah right, and then they both help to escape too.

466
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:46,239
Speaker 12: M hm.

467
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 3: In that one, it was it was pretty it was

468
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 3: pretty egregious. One thing.

469
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 5: A lot of things have stood out to me, but

470
00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 5: on the alleged shooter the Sun's first day at the

471
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 5: high school, he texted his father, whenever something happens.

472
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 3: Just know the blood is on your hands. Oh my god.

473
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 2: Later that very same week, first week of seeing one

474
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: day one of school.

475
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 5: In that week, he shoved his mother when his mother

476
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 5: tried to take the gun from him. On the fifth

477
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 5: day of school, he asked a teacher about active shooter

478
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 5: drills in however, a way that prompted administration to be notified,

479
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 5: and also his mother. In the week's leading up to

480
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 5: the attack the alleged shooter, his behavior seemed to be escalating,

481
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 5: and he told his father that he was hearing voices

482
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 5: and he was sending threatening text to his mother. His

483
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 5: mother alerted the school counselor about his access to firearms.

484
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 2: Oh so there was just mom and I believe it

485
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: was separated. Not that any of that matters. I'm not

486
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: suggesting that it does, but you can see how things

487
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: can get lost in the sauce or lost in translation.

488
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: You know, here's mom is.

489
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: Alerting the school like, hey, my kid has an access

490
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 2: to guns.

491
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: I'm concerned, you know, I'm concerned.

492
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: All the checkpoints happened similarly to the Bromley case. Not

493
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: to go back in time. But that's a husband and

494
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: wife both am I saying that correctly.

495
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 4: Bromley, it's crumbley crumb like a hum. I believe it's

496
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 4: been a while.

497
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 3: I thought it was. Let's check top of head.

498
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we check that the crumblies because it's a really

499
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 2: fascinating case as well. I think they were both found

500
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: guilty and again it was heart wrenching to see, and

501
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure this trial will be the same because you

502
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: see all these touch points where it could have gone correctly.

503
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: You know, they had called the school, The school notified

504
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 2: mom and dad. Mom took the call. Mom blew it off.

505
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 2: Like everything that could have gone right did from the

506
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: school's best efforts. And it appears that's the case here

507
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: as well. You know what a tragic ending and it is.

508
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 11: It is the Crumbles crumbly ethan Crumbley fifteen year old

509
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 11: student from Oxford High School. And going back to something

510
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 11: you mentioned earlier with this, uh, the case that we

511
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 11: were just talking about, he was new to the high school.

512
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 11: He was it was he was a freshman, so it

513
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 11: was a new environment for him.

514
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 3: So yeah, he needs write with the voices and everything else.

515
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 2: It's like schizophrenia hitting over the head. I'm not diagnosing,

516
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 2: but you know, this is very serious.

517
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 4: It's very serious, right, and he's so young for it

518
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 4: to be for something like this to be hitting at

519
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 4: such a young agees.

520
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: Wow.

521
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 5: And then the school and I don't know many details

522
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 5: outside of this, but on the morning of the shooting,

523
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 5: the mother of the alleged shooter. She called and described

524
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 5: an unspecified quote extreme emergency involving her son.

525
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 3: And this was before the shooting occurred.

526
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 5: It appears that there was a ten minute call place

527
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 5: from the mom to the school at nine point fifty am.

528
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 5: Police were notified of the shooting at ten twenty am.

529
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 3: So the schools called.

530
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 5: Like you said, Stephanie, the police are going to the family,

531
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 5: The family's calling, the school, the schools calling, and yet

532
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 5: so this really will be one to watch, and we're

533
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 5: short on time. But I just want to say what

534
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 5: the prosecutor said in his opening statement because it chilled me. Wow,

535
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 5: this is not a case about holding parents accountable for

536
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 5: what their children do.

537
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: This is the case.

538
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 5: This is about what the defendant did and his actions

539
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 5: in allowing a child that he has custody over access

540
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 5: to a firearm and ammunition after being warned that this

541
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 5: child was going to harm others.

542
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 3: Wow, it's going to be an important one to watch.

543
00:30:58,840 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: I agree with these stuff.

544
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 4: This is going to to be an important case because

545
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 4: the Crumbley's was an important case, right, This was the

546
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 4: first of its kind.

547
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 3: They kind of turned on each other a bit too

548
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 3: in the eleventh that work, Why don't we move? You know,

549
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 3: they all they all had.

550
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 2: It was messy. You know, they dismissed everything. It was

551
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 2: just a messy time in their lives and oh so

552
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: much tragedy came from it. But you know, the school

553
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 2: notified them. He had the backpack, remember the sun. Ethan

554
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: had the backpack and he took it from him and

555
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: in it was the gun?

556
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: Was the gun?

557
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: Right?

558
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, We're going to go straight to a talkback.

559
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 13: Hi.

560
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 14: It's Rachel from Philly.

561
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 15: I love you guys.

562
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 14: I wanted to leave an opinion on why I think

563
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 14: they let that first suspect go in the Nancy Guthrie investigation.

564
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 14: Do you think they let him go to see where.

565
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 3: He went and who he called?

566
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 14: And they're actually surveilling him to see if he leads

567
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 14: them to people who may be involved.

568
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 15: Just curious. Love your show.

569
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 3: Bye. Wow, that's interesting thought of that. That's a really

570
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 3: great theory. I mean, but.

571
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 2: Because think about it there, everything's out in the press.

572
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 2: It's like simpatico. You know, oh, you're gonna give me

573
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: the ransom note in the press, We're going to give

574
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: you a clue or shake you off your course or something.

575
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 4: But wouldn't they wouldn't it be smarter though, to just

576
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 4: follow him around instead of arresting him and making this

577
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 4: big spectacle and looking like idiots.

578
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, that's my because I do or initially I'm like,

579
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 5: that's an interesting thing.

580
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 3: No, it is, it isn't. Or they could do a bump.

581
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 3: Remember the bump, Yes, the bump. That's the scariest.

582
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, where they you know, basically probe the suspect

583
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 4: in a way to make them react.

584
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 6: Right.

585
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, that is that is interesting and it's

586
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 4: something I know I didn't think of, but I do

587
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 4: think that it would have been smarter to do a

588
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 4: bump or to or just follow just follow him around.

589
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's also been ly cleared.

590
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 4: Correct, well, he hasn't been cleared, but they did say

591
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 4: they let him go.

592
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 3: You know, they're like, oh, this isn't the guy.

593
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 6: Wait.

594
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 11: From my understanding, so if you're not a suspect and

595
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 11: they let you go, doesn't that naturally mean you're cleared?

596
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 4: Like, I mean, did they say he was a suspect?

597
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 4: I don't know that he was ever really a person

598
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 4: of question? Yeah, person of interest right out?

599
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 3: I mean, does that mean I'm hard.

600
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 6: I'm not you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, huh okay, I

601
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:35,719
Speaker 6: don't know.

602
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 11: The other thing I found interesting with this is that

603
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 11: they were saying on the news this morning, how many

604
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 11: internet sluts and YouTubers and just people are like all

605
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 11: over the place.

606
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's actually a problem.

607
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, there, it is an issue.

608
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 4: And like even just researching the case right, like to

609
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 4: do the show right, like finding out what happens to

610
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 4: you have to swim through a sea of misinformation to

611
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 4: get the truth.

612
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 3: And it's an issue.

613
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 4: It's overwhelming the amount of misinformation that's out about this

614
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:11,439
Speaker 4: case right now.

615
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it really does very cleanly show the process

616
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: and how like misinformation or wrong information also can really

617
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: clog the system. Right the crime scene. We've spoken about this,

618
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 2: that not being properly secure can jump you know, is

619
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 2: a kind of astounding, but that does happen pretty regularly.

620
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: It's just shocking that everyone's seeing that happen, seeing it,

621
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 2: But it really does need to clean up from there.

622
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: And this is the biggest example of that. And you know,

623
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 2: you don't know what you don't know until you know it,

624
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 2: So you know, certain things that didn't seem valuable at

625
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 2: that exact moment, now seem critical and frankly, had they

626
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: not engaged the home audience. I guess like we know

627
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 2: we've been all asked to help, you know, like the

628
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 2: family has reached out to the country, to the world

629
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 2: asking for our help. So I think everyone feels like

630
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 2: we have to find her. So now no stone is

631
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: being unturned, which is beautiful, but.

632
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 4: That awhelmed me a mess, right, overwhelming? Yeah, all good

633
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,919
Speaker 4: intentions for sure. Let's get in their talk.

634
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 14: You guys asked for opinions.

635
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 15: I'm putting my tinfoil head on.

636
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 3: After Cash Petel came out and was like, there's no

637
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 3: Epstein files. What are you talking about.

638
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: I don't believe anything he's putting out about Nancy Guffrie,

639
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: and that upsets me because I want.

640
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 14: To trust, but I have no trust And where is

641
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 14: that poor woman? Also, I know you don't watch Real Housewives,

642
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 14: but it's my opinion.

643
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: Whol is she talking to when she says, you know

644
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: you don't watch the Real Housewives?

645
00:35:59,320 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 3: I don't think.

646
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 7: I know you do.

647
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 3: I watch all of them.

648
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 2: But and yes, but Courtney, you watch the Housewives for

649
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: the most part.

650
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 5: Right, I've I fell off Bethany Frankel was an obsession

651
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 5: of mine and continue I will literally break out. Most

652
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 5: people can't, but I will break out. I'm the only

653
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 5: person and rewatched. Uh you know Bethany, will she or

654
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 5: won't she get married? And then you watch her get married?

655
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 5: Loved her getting married?

656
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have reference that you've seen no second of it.

657
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 3: Like ten times out of DVD set of it. All right,

658
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 3: stop it? Are you serious?

659
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 7: Really was his.

660
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 3: Name Jason Poppy?

661
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, right right, Oh my god, to the main point

662
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 4: of the top.

663
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 10: Yes, I do want I definitely understand where you're coming from,

664
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 10: like not, you know, believing anything that comes out of

665
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 10: these people's mouths, because they just lied, like out of

666
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,879
Speaker 10: their teeth in front of Congress to us.

667
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 3: You know, there's no.

668
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 4: Ebstein files and what do you mean? I totally get it,

669
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 4: And I also understand how disheartening that it is too

670
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 4: somebody like me who I really look up to the FBI, you.

671
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.

672
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 4: I really told them in high regard, and to have

673
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 4: doubts about the things that they're saying hurts hurts me,

674
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 4: like it hurts me to say that. But I understand

675
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 4: where she's coming from. I understand it's upsetting. I do

676
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 4: think though, in I think that they have selective amnesia

677
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 4: sometimes when it comes to the Epstein files. But I

678
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 4: don't think that they're being misleading in the case. Does

679
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 4: that make sense? And I don't know how I know

680
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 4: that or whatever, but I just don't feel like they

681
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 4: are being deceptive.

682
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like the Epstein is also the exception

683
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 5: to every rule. I mean, it's literally toppling as an exaggeration,

684
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 5: but taking little topples at different foreign governments and it's coming. Yeah,

685
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 5: it's coming. But I mean it's like everyone was lying

686
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 5: about it, so right, cash Hotel gets kind of a

687
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 5: break whether you're said or not.

688
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 4: For me on that, Yeah, you're right because they were

689
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 4: all everybody's been lying about it, right, So he's not

690
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 4: special because he lied about it. He's just one of

691
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 4: many who lied about it. He was terrible at lying.

692
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 4: He really want it, So is that a good thing?

693
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 4: I guess that's kind of a good thing.

694
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 3: But I don't know. There's so much to unpack on

695
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 3: that one that it's like.

696
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: We had to go to a talk back because I'll digress.

697
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 12: Hi, ladies, I just wanted to call in with some

698
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 12: good news. I am on the way to the airport.

699
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 12: I'm flying to Italy to go to the Olympics and

700
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 12: support our country. What three different emoents next week, And

701
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 12: I know a lot of people are really torn about

702
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 12: how our country kills right now. My husband, even Joe,

703
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 12: He's like, hey, why don't you pick your team Canada?

704
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 12: Stuff of which I have none, And I asked them why,

705
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 12: and he said, do you really want to advertise that

706
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 12: you're an American right now? And I told him, yeah,

707
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 12: I'm proud to be an American and I'm proud to

708
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 12: be uh from a country that we can have a

709
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 12: respectful discourse. And it sounds like we have a lot

710
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 12: of people that are trying to do good, even if

711
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 12: it's all the headlines or our government or whoever that

712
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 12: are giving us the bad light. So you three, I

713
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 12: just want you to know are part of that good light.

714
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 12: You guys are the ones who are fighting the good fight.

715
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 12: You're trying to do something good. You're able to have

716
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 12: respectful discussions and respectful disagreement and show everybody that we're

717
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 12: all on the same side, and that's just to be

718
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 12: good humans. Have a good week. Proud to be an

719
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 12: American and keep fighting the good fight.

720
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 3: Get that woman a sweatshirt.

721
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 16: I'm so inside. There is a hoodie. That's a hoodie.

722
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 16: You shall playing to Italy? Are you guys watching? First

723
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 16: of all, greatest talk back ever, Michael, will you come

724
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 16: and stas?

725
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 3: I want to? I'm all. I was asking Ta before

726
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 3: the show.

727
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 2: Has he been watching the couple's figure skating. It's astounding,

728
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 2: it's so good.

729
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 3: If you haven't been watching, you got to just jump in.

730
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 2: It's like you're watching in under ten minutes, people's most

731
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 2: important important moment the end, like this is it. It's

732
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 2: like you can watch it like literally while washing brushing

733
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 2: your teeth and somebody's like given it there everything.

734
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 4: I feel like ways, I feel like that the Olympics

735
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 4: are where everyone loses their politicalness and you know, they

736
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 4: just have their love in their eyes.

737
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 3: Yes, they care, they care about each other.

738
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 2: They get to work together in a way they really BRIGHI.

739
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 3: The Yes, it looks awesome.

740
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, amazing, but have so much fun and thank you

741
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 4: so much for that talkback.

742
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, go Usa, go Usa. Hello, true last night friends.

743
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 6: This is now from Fredericksburg.

744
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 13: I just want to thank you for being great edutainers,

745
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 13: and also, I would love to see you bring True

746
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 13: Crime and Chill back. I don't always get to participate

747
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 13: with the talkbacks because I play catch up a lot

748
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 13: on the weekends, but it's so great and my whole

749
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 13: family participates and watch. Also, I would totally buy an

750
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 13: allegedly allegedly allegedly sweatshirt take care leve you off?

751
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 3: How much did we pay her? Because that was a

752
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 3: really deserve tip.

753
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 4: Who knows somebody from Fredericksburg? Who knows somebody a friend there?

754
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 6: Of them?

755
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 3: We're going to do Bundy, right? Is that what we're doing?

756
00:41:59,640 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 8: We have?

757
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 3: Oh that thought?

758
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 6: We're going to talk about that.

759
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 3: Oh we are.

760
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're going to talk about that at the end

761
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 6: of today show because I've got some details to fill

762
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 6: you in on.

763
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 11: So that thought, and people out there listening stay tuned

764
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 11: to the very end because True Crime and Chill is back,

765
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 11: and it's back with a vengeance.

766
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 6: Wait two years, how it's this time?

767
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 2: Oh tell us tea, right, he's just where did that

768
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 2: just come from?

769
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 8: Yes?

770
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:33,959
Speaker 3: Okay, I can't hardly wait.

771
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 11: Yes, but it's but the sweats the swell, the swell

772
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 11: is coming. A lot of people love our sweatshirts and

773
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 11: have asked about them, so are also in the works.

774
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 11: I know, I know everybody looked at me with a

775
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 11: side yesterday because I had one on.

776
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 3: You got one? Are you want a group chain? And

777
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 3: I'm not on? Must you guys do on the wait.

778
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 2: In his allegedly allegedly allegedly sweatshirt?

779
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 6: This was yet, No, not in a group change.

780
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 11: This was yesterday when we were all, uh, you know,

781
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 11: doing the show together and I didn't. I guess everyone

782
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 11: did notice it, but I had it on then. But yeah,

783
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 11: this is this is a different version.

784
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 3: I do know you guys were planning a surprise reveal.

785
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 11: No, nothing like that. But but yeah, we have more

786
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 11: to come with that. But I have one of the

787
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 11: talk back that I've been able to get to because

788
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 11: this one is specifically to Courtney.

789
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 15: Good morning, true crimes.

790
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 9: Nothing to do with crime currently. I just wanted to

791
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 9: reach out. You were talking about Valentine's Day and Courtney

792
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 9: likes a good dry martini, so that means you must

793
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 9: love all of So you've got to try dirty martini pasta.

794
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 9: Just google a recipe. I did not use alcohol in it,

795
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 9: but I am telling you delicious.

796
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 4: Oh, I can guarante I can say with certainty that

797
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 4: Courtney is going to make this because she comments to

798
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 4: the show with dinner almost every night, and it always

799
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 4: looks so good and she eats it, yeah, right in

800
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 4: front of me.

801
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 3: It doesn't even care that I'm starving, and.

802
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 4: It always looks so good that are like.

803
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 3: She's like covered bricks.

804
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 4: Oh I made bowlonnaise, and I'm like, what.

805
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 6: What I'm like eating a frozen lean cuisine.

806
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 3: I'm meaning like, yeah, I'm meaning toast cooking and she's like, oh,

807
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 3: I've got chicken.

808
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 4: Bowlonaise with you know, fresh parsley that I picked in

809
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 4: my garden. And I'm like, okay, so I guarantee you

810
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 4: Courtney is going to make this dirty martini pasta on

811
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 4: I am did you.

812
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 3: Look at up excite?

813
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 5: Yes, spaghetti, some fet of cheese and olives, some lemon.

814
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 3: I'm loving all of this, but yes, good, Okay, that

815
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 3: sounds nightmare food. There was that sounds delicious. It doesn't

816
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 3: sound as good as it is.

817
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 2: No way that you would love it, and if you

818
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: love it, if Courtney made it. Courtney cooked every day

819
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: for a good year when we shared an office. She

820
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 2: would cook and we never looked it was never healthier. Yeah,

821
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 2: we really we ate together, totally gluten free breakfast, lunch

822
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 2: and a snack ham to god. Wow, I would do

823
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 2: like a twelve eggs huge for tada together for the years.

824
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:41,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

825
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 3: Wife ever, Yeah, she had come in and it was

826
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 3: like delicious. Nathan on the.

827
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 2: She said, she that's why I thought you guys were

828
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: doing a little surprise reveal.

829
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 3: Ava I made. She made something in your honor, Courtney.

830
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 5: You taught her to me, Yeah, tofu ballinas because she's

831
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 5: you know, she's young, she's on a real budget. She's

832
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 5: being healthy and so it is dirt cheap, so easy

833
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 5: and will fill you for days, just pretty much.

834
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: I I never we're going to go the three ingredient,

835
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 3: four ingredient.

836
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 2: It doesn't do that for lent, but we do something

837
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 2: for lent as opposed to take something away that.

838
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 6: Oh I like that.

839
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 3: That sounds gret That was yeah, that sounds good. I

840
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 3: thought so totally different. I did not mean it that way. Well,

841
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:48,720
Speaker 3: I stick around.

842
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 5: We've got a deep dive coming up into Corey Richinson.

843
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 5: She is accused of fatally poisoning her husband. Everyone on

844
00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 5: the show has lost their minds and stay with us

845
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 5: it's True Crime Tonight.

846
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,720
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

847
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

848
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body Movin.

849
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 3: If you have missed any.

850
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 2: Of the show, please check us out tonight as a

851
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 2: podcast right after and if you want to join us

852
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: live eight eight eight three one crime or you can

853
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: always leave us a talkback, just download the iHeartRadio app

854
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,919
Speaker 2: top right hand corner. There's a little microphone you push

855
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,919
Speaker 2: that leave a little message and hey, guess what, We'll

856
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 2: play that message on the show. So we want to

857
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: hear all your opinions, keep them coming. And yeah, we're

858
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 2: bracing through a lot of trials. So there's so many

859
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 2: to get too, and some really important ones to be

860
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 2: following closely.

861
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 3: So body up next Corey Richins, I mean big one,

862
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 3: her big one. Yeah.

863
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 4: So, her trial is set to begin on the twenty

864
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 4: third of this month of February. Okay, and a jury

865
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 4: has been selected. So the she's the Utah mom who

866
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 4: is charged with aggravated murder in so in March of

867
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 4: twenty two in this fentanyl poisoning of her husband. Okay, again,

868
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 4: the case.

869
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 3: True.

870
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 4: You know, all this national attention after Corey Richins, you know,

871
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 4: she published this children's book about grief following his death,

872
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 4: after you know, authorities uncovered this Walk the Dog jail letter,

873
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 4: prosecutors say was an attempt to tamper with witnesses in

874
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 4: her trial from behind bars. Corey Richins has pled not guilty.

875
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 4: She faces additional charges including attempted aggravated murder, drug distribution, fraud,

876
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 4: and forgery because she tried a couple times to poison

877
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 4: him allegedly, right, So that's she has this attempted murder

878
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 4: because she tried to gain you imagine.

879
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 2: And he knew or he knew he had a sick

880
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 2: feeling about it.

881
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 3: He had a like he had a sense.

882
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 4: Right.

883
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 3: So here's what we're going to talk about today.

884
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 4: Okay, So, because this trial is going to begin, I

885
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 4: thought it would be a good idea to get everybody

886
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 4: kind of, you know, looks the salient details. Okay, And

887
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,240
Speaker 4: this one, this one is about the Walk the Dog letter,

888
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,839
Speaker 4: which is really important in this case.

889
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 3: Okay.

890
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 4: So this Walk the Dog letter or document, it's six pages, okay,

891
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 4: and it's handwritten and it was found in a book

892
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 4: in her jail cell and it was in an l

893
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 4: SAT book of all things, and the l SAT is like,

894
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 4: I think what you take when you're or what you

895
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 4: read when you're studying to become a lawyer.

896
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 3: It's yeah, there you go. Okay.

897
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 4: So it was a prep book in So she's in jail,

898
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 4: a waiting trial, and she writes this letter to her mom.

899
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 3: Okay.

900
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 4: And at the very top of this letter, it's in

901
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 4: written it says walk the dog, but take vague notes.

902
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 4: So you remember that's weird, right, Okay. So law enforcement,

903
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 4: you know there, you know how they check your cell

904
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:16,760
Speaker 4: and everything.

905
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 3: They find this letter. They're like, what is this? Okay.

906
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 4: So prosecutors are alleging that this letter is just like

907
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 4: coded language throughout okay. And the idea is is that

908
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 4: Corey is writing this letter to her mom and she's

909
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 4: trying to tell her mom to tell her brother Ronnie.

910
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 4: Tell Ronnie to tell authorities that Eric and my husband

911
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 4: who's who is dead now told him that he gets

912
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 4: all his drugs in Mexico from ranch workers.

913
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 3: Okay.

914
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 4: Now again they're saying that this the prosecutors are saying,

915
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 4: this is all coded language. They argue that this letter

916
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 4: attempts witness tampering and a consciousness of guilt, calling it

917
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 4: a dishonest effort to fabricate this Mexico drug connection. The

918
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 4: defense claims the document is not a letter, Okay, what

919
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 4: they say, it's it's an excerpt from a sixty five

920
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 4: page manuscript that she's writing, called to Helen Back, and

921
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:24,280
Speaker 4: that is, you know, her story, describing a dramatized version

922
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 4: of events, including Mexico travel and a trial. Prosecutors are

923
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 4: seeking out. They're like, okay, okay, if this is a manuscript.

924
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 2: Where you know, sixty crazy sorry, I mean, probably quite

925
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 2: a good author is wrong, I'm guessing considering she wrote

926
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 2: a book about grief for her children.

927
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 3: Right.

928
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 4: So now there's this legal dispute centered around this letter,

929
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:56,280
Speaker 4: whether it's uh, you know, it centers around on whether

930
00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 4: the letter is privileged attorney work product, improperly seized, or

931
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 4: improperly disclosed. The state filed emotion a while ago for

932
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,840
Speaker 4: a no contact Okay, because listen, Corey's writing these letters,

933
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 4: he's called letters to her mom court and you have

934
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 4: your hand up.

935
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 5: Well, I'm just I was thinking to myself, how could

936
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 5: it possibly be improperly seized? You can't have an expected

937
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 5: right to privacy in a jail sign of mis sakes

938
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 5: like that.

939
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,720
Speaker 2: That is very strange. Can we write to all the time?

940
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: You know what, let's write this down for Jarrett. Maybe

941
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 2: we can't ask him. Can we put a pin in

942
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: this and come back to it with Jared, because I'd

943
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 2: like to know what grounds that you know, that statement,

944
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 2: what their argument is based.

945
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 5: On right and privileged attorney that was in the middle

946
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 5: of a book instead of you have access to your attorney, right.

947
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll be curious. It sounds like hog what is

948
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 3: Mom's says nothing yet? Okay, so it's like.

949
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 2: You need to quit it with all your weird coded

950
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 2: letters from prison.

951
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 3: So to pull it, the prosecutors.

952
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 4: Filed for a no contact order. They're like, listen, she's

953
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 4: writing letters to her mom to try to get her

954
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 4: brother to fabricate this thing that you know, Eric, the

955
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 4: husband who's passed said to him, right, and the judge

956
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 4: denied it. So Corey is still able to have communications

957
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 4: with her mother. Yeah, they said that surprises me. It

958
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 4: does me too. They describe the basis for this no

959
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 4: contact order related to the letter's content. This order was

960
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 4: denied by the judge in November of twenty twenty three,

961
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,879
Speaker 4: and she's allowed continued contact with her mom to Here's

962
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 4: some things that she said in the letter. She said

963
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 4: that his testimony can be short and to the point,

964
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 4: but it has to be done. She asked her mom,

965
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 4: Lisa her name is Her mom's name is Lisa Darden,

966
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 4: to pass this information to her brother Ronnie in person,

967
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 4: saying her mother's home and phone could be bug right.

968
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 4: The letters says that the testimony of Ronnie could make

969
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,720
Speaker 4: the connection. The letter presents the story of a scenario

970
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 4: dis expected terremony testimony that starts with upon information and belief.

971
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 3: Lol.

972
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 4: Just like this is how she writes it, upon information

973
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 4: and belief and then she puts in like parentheses Lol,

974
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 4: like she's writing she's writing this for him, She's for

975
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 4: She's off for Rocker.

976
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 3: Also so deplorable.

977
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 5: If everything's being alleged is true, she is now just

978
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 5: decimating her deceased husband's reputation that he was in Mexico

979
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 5: all day, every day getting illegal drugs.

980
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:39,919
Speaker 3: I mean, m all right.

981
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 4: She tells her mother in the letter to take vague

982
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 4: notes so that she can remember the contents before you

983
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 4: walk the dog, so Basically, the idea is you're not

984
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 4: taking detailed notes, you're taking vague ones, so that if

985
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 4: law enforcement or whatever happened to come upon it, it's

986
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 4: not incriminating. Right, that's the idea.

987
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 3: Prosecutor.

988
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: What was she supposed to do with this little note?

989
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: Was she going to slip it to mom perhaps during

990
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 2: a visit.

991
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 4: Well, this visit is very it's very interesting you bring

992
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 4: this up because this letter they don't believe was actually

993
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 4: passed on to her mom. They say it's unclear if

994
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 4: she passed this letter to her mother or anyone else,

995
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 4: but they said during a video conference that Corey had

996
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 4: with her mom, she held up us a separate letter

997
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 4: for her mother to read. And they can't find this letter.

998
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 3: Wow, dun dun dahn.

999
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 4: So there's another letter. Okay, not to walk the dog letter,

1000
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 4: but another letter. We don't know what it's hitting. I'm

1001
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 4: not kidding. We don't know what it said, we don't

1002
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 4: know what the contents were, we don't even know what

1003
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 4: it was about. Right, that Corey held up to like

1004
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 4: the camera or whatever, for her mom to read. And

1005
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 4: they want this letter. They want this letter.

1006
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm on pins and needles and listen if you

1007
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 5: are just joining us, this is true crime tonight, and

1008
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 5: his body move in is walking us through some of

1009
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:17,320
Speaker 5: the details of the Corey Richins upcoming case and specifically

1010
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 5: is talking about the cryptic quote walk the Dog letter.

1011
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 3: What else do we need to know?

1012
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 4: So the motion goes on to say the motion for

1013
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 4: this letter. The letter was not found inside the defendants cell.

1014
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 4: There is a strong inference that the September thirteenth letter.

1015
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 3: Was destroyed or flushed, So.

1016
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 4: They're never going to get this letter. Now, Can the

1017
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,760
Speaker 4: Walk the Dog letter be admitted in court?

1018
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,720
Speaker 3: Right? Because the defense is saying, oh, it's.

1019
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 4: Part of her manuscript. It has nothing to do with anything.

1020
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 4: It's a make belief scenario where you know, Quary she

1021
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 4: might be also insane, right, or she could be writting

1022
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:59,479
Speaker 4: a manuscript. But then you know, of course the state

1023
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 4: is like, Weldon, if this really is part of the

1024
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 4: sixty five page manuscript towards the other.

1025
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 3: Sixty yeah, cough it up his just cough it up? Right? Well,

1026
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 3: the letter.

1027
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 4: The judge is he partially granted the prosecutor's motion to

1028
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 4: include the Walk the Dog letter at trial, although the

1029
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 4: court records don't specific specify which portions are going to

1030
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 4: be amissible, So we don't know yet. We're going to

1031
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 4: be on pins and needles waiting for that. The judge

1032
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 4: also said he will decide during trial, outside of the

1033
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 4: jury's presence, all right, whether evidence that Eric, the victim

1034
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 4: in this case, used drugs in high school, and whether

1035
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 4: it can be admitted in court and presentive jurors.

1036
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 17: So, if he did drew in high school, the guy

1037
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 17: was given five times the amount of fentanyl for a

1038
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 17: human being.

1039
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 3: Is that accurate?

1040
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, times, And if I'm remembering, it was another

1041
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 2: prior attempt happened. He was made, that's right on Valentine's Day,

1042
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 2: and he was made quite ill and told a person

1043
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 2: or persons that, hey, I think my wife's trying to

1044
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 2: poison me.

1045
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 3: He did, You're absolutely right, and she was, and he

1046
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 3: was accurate. Yes, yeah, she tried.

1047
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 4: They went to dinner, and after dinner he became ill

1048
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 4: and he told I think one of his friends, I

1049
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 4: think my wife tried to kill me.

1050
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she very soon later yeah.

1051
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then she goes on to to help her

1052
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: children grieve the loss of their father by becoming a

1053
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 2: beloved author on grieving and has the audacity if in

1054
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 2: fact this is true, allegedly allegedly allegedly had the audacity

1055
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 2: to be the comfort.

1056
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 3: For her children. She was, by in fact, was the

1057
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 3: It's like Munchausen's.

1058
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 4: Right, she bought Munchausen's by proxy again, right, Maybe that

1059
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 4: is some part of it, because she was getting like

1060
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 4: attention through this book that she wrote and.

1061
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 3: Identity we know her as a grieving author.

1062
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 4: And remember too, she had texted people for this ventanyl

1063
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 4: she spent like eight hundred dollars on it, and she

1064
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 4: said that she wanted the Michael Jackson stuff.

1065
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 3: Right.

1066
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 4: But now in this Walk the Dog letter, she's like, Okay,

1067
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 4: tell my brother, Mom, Mom, tell my brother to tell

1068
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 4: that his testimony needs to be that Eric. They were

1069
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 4: watching football and Eric just happened to mention, Oh, yeah,

1070
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 4: I'm doing all these drugs and I get them from

1071
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 4: ranch hands in Mexico. Isn't that insane?

1072
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1073
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 5: You know, I have another question that we should put

1074
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 5: on the list for Jared about this, because when you

1075
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 5: said that, the judge is still deliberating about whether or

1076
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 5: not information about the victim's previous high school drug history.

1077
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 3: Can be brought in.

1078
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 5: We were speaking last week or a couple of weeks ago,

1079
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 5: about how prior bad acts, even if they aren't like

1080
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 5: on the record that you were arrested for, they can

1081
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 5: be brought in if you were on trial. Is that

1082
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 5: the same for victims that if I'm dead, can somebody say, oh,

1083
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 5: and she crashed her car in eighth grade?

1084
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, I

1085
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 3: guess can.

1086
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 2: I think that's a moral questions.

1087
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 4: Legal especially if your defense is he did it himself, right,

1088
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 4: like he was a drug addict.

1089
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 3: It's not my fault.

1090
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 4: You know that he died of this ventanyl overdose five

1091
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 4: times the lethal limit. And even though he told his

1092
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 4: friend that you know, this happened on Valentine's Day, And

1093
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 4: even though I had these text messages buying it and

1094
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 4: saying that that she you know, I want them Michael

1095
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 4: Jackson stuff. I mean, I don't know, but no, I

1096
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 4: don't know, though, I mean, it's kind of like shaming

1097
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 4: the victim here, right, But if it's your defense, then

1098
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1099
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 3: It's a good question to ask, Jared, though, for sure.

1100
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 2: I think it's a slip very slow, you know, just

1101
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 2: if you're juror, that could go sideways. So quickly if

1102
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 2: you don't, if you feel like there's like a gotcha

1103
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 2: moment or something tricky against a victim who can't even

1104
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 2: be there to defend themselves and now they're being called

1105
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 2: into question when they've done nothing wrong.

1106
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 3: Well that was like Brendan Banfield, the man who along

1107
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 3: with the Aupare they were both found guilty of murdering

1108
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 3: Christine Banfield and Joseph his name is escaping me. But

1109
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 3: he said some pretty terrible and untrue things about Christine Banfield, right,

1110
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 3: just same the victim.

1111
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 4: Corey also claims that in the Walk the Dog letter

1112
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 4: it says that there are pictures on her phone of

1113
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 4: her husband passed out on the floor or in like

1114
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 4: a chair, and that her brother Ronnie should have texts

1115
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,919
Speaker 4: from her husband talking about getting hot. So I don't

1116
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 4: know if if, oh.

1117
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 2: She's setting up her husband now deceased father of the

1118
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 2: children she wrote the Grieving Books four.

1119
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I don't know if there's really these

1120
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 4: pictures and text messages from the victim, you know, Eric.

1121
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 3: To her brother.

1122
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 4: But she's basically planting the idea that there is right or.

1123
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 3: Is the idea of being a plant right?

1124
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 4: But I mean, you can't just say or testify. Oh

1125
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 4: I have all these text messages from the victims saying

1126
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 4: he gets hired.

1127
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 3: We don't have them. It doesn't make a whole lot

1128
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 3: of sense to me. But we're going to be following this.

1129
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,439
Speaker 3: Will stay tuned for that man. We sure well thank

1130
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 3: you for that body my goodness.

1131
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 5: Well stick around because coming up we're going to dig

1132
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 5: into Jeffrey Ebstein's remote New Mexico ranch. It's a huge

1133
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 5: compound in the desert and victims say powerful secrets for

1134
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 5: keep it here. True Crime Tonight.

1135
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight an iHeartRadio. We're talking

1136
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 2: true crime all the time of a Steph Banny Lydecker

1137
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 2: here with Courtney Armstrong. Give us a shake, court and

1138
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 2: we have body Moven and yes, listen, we have a

1139
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 2: lot to get through. But by the way, breaking news

1140
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 2: even just now, we were about to go to our

1141
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 2: big unpacked regarding the Epstein files and specifically his Zoro,

1142
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 2: New Mexico ranch. So Adam, as I mentioned earlier, he

1143
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,479
Speaker 2: and Ava during the day, I have been working around

1144
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 2: the edges during a deep dive, and just as we

1145
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 2: come on, we have pretty big announcements. So Courtney let's

1146
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 2: start there. Yeah, fresh off the presses.

1147
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 5: So New Mexico lawmakers just passed legislation to launch what

1148
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 5: they said will be the first full investigation into what

1149
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 5: exactly happened at Zoro Ranch, and bipartisan committee will seek

1150
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 5: testimony from survivors of alleged sexual abuse at this ranch.

1151
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 5: So that's big news as great, it's big, huge, great news.

1152
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 5: And if you're not familiar with the ranch, we will

1153
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 5: fill you in, but.

1154
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 4: A familiar celebranch at all. So I'm going to be

1155
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 4: I'm going to be the audience because I'm not.

1156
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 2: Okay, So I'll get the fastest, the fastest broad strokes

1157
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 2: in the most layman's terms. So we hear a lot

1158
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 2: about Epstein Island, but you know, Jeffrey Epstein himself, he

1159
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 2: had a lot of real estate. We hear about his

1160
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 2: West Palm Beach, you know, location, very famous, super you know,

1161
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 2: infamously famous location in New York City, like the largest

1162
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 2: brownstone in the history of mankind or something obscenely you know, wealthy,

1163
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 2: and obviously this island. And then also though where it

1164
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 2: all starts really kind of was always in this New

1165
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: Mexico ranch, which is a ranch that only Courtney and

1166
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 2: I we've talked about this briefly when we were working

1167
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 2: on a sex trafficking documentary called Murdered and Missing in Montana,

1168
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 2: which focuses on on specific reservations that had a tremendous uptick.

1169
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 3: Of great documentary and murdered Thank you.

1170
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 2: Inventionist Girls is a problem that we have to continue

1171
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 2: to keep our eye on. We felt as though there

1172
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 2: was a trafficking pipeline to New Mexico and that was Epstein.

1173
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 2: This was pre Epstein being Epstein. Courtney as my witness,

1174
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 2: yea hundred percent, and then it kind.

1175
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 3: Of went away, so no one really talks about it.

1176
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 3: But it had long been alleged.

1177
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 2: To be this place where experiments were maybe done, but

1178
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 2: then certainly trafficking was being done. And it was like

1179
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 2: a one way trafficking location. And there's some sort of

1180
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 2: strange like there's like a maze kind of a thing

1181
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 2: that you would imagine and the shining out front of it.

1182
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:49,439
Speaker 3: It's a thing.

1183
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:55,439
Speaker 2: So you know who has this location. It's all kind

1184
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 2: of coming out in these last few days. And to

1185
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 2: find out no one's ever done an investigation on the

1186
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 2: place ever. Okay, well, and that's testimony is suggesting that

1187
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 2: a lot of weird things happen there.

1188
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 3: So you know, we can get into some of that

1189
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 3: weird stuff.

1190
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 2: But that's just the broad strokes history of Epstein's New

1191
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 2: Mexico location.

1192
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 4: So it's still standing, I mean like it's still oh okay, yeah,

1193
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 4: and what big news.

1194
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 2: So this is this is a ranch that Jeffrey Epstein

1195
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 2: bought back in nineteen ninety three, so it was in Okay,

1196
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 2: So that was what was going on. And it's it's

1197
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 2: almost twenty seven one thousand square feet this mansion.

1198
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 3: That's a lot of.

1199
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 2: You have to google it. It's like astro, it's a thing.

1200
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 2: It's like a thing. But body, yes, it is one

1201
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 2: hundred percent still standing. But the question was, hey, who

1202
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 2: owns that?

1203
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, and this has just come to come to light

1204
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:55,919
Speaker 5: not that long ago.

1205
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 3: So it's Donald Huffins.

1206
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 5: He's a Texas politician and controller candidate, and he was

1207
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 5: revealed as the twenty twenty three purchaser of this notorious

1208
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 5: Zoro ranch. So he just bought it in twenty twenty

1209
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 5: three and he changed the name Huffins. He renamed it

1210
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 5: and had the address slightly changed to distance.

1211
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 2: You rechanged your address in the middle of nowhere. This address,

1212
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 2: it's like you would only go there if you're a

1213
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 2: weirdo one, this weird.

1214
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 3: Ranch, like it's like the middle of no place. I think.

1215
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1216
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 18: Well they changed the street name so it's forty nine

1217
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 18: Zoro Ranch, and they changed it to forty nine Rancho

1218
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 18: San Raphael just in an effort to separate.

1219
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 7: It from any weird kay Zoro Ranch connection.

1220
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 2: Okay, and actually, Adam, since you have the mic, do

1221
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 2: you want to give a little bit more details?

1222
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 3: What do we need to know? You put this together yourself.

1223
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 3: We Adam's big debut. Let's settle in my phone. Get yourself.

1224
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 2: I get comfortable. We're here for it. Don't you feel rush?

1225
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 3: We are all here.

1226
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 18: Okay, Well I'm sitting back just gazing at the monitor here.

1227
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 7: But uh, don huffines.

1228
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 12: Yes.

1229
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 18: So he bought the ranch in a public auction, in

1230
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 18: a twenty twenty.

1231
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 7: Three I believe.

1232
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 18: So he bought it under his Rancho San Rafael organization

1233
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 18: like an LLC.

1234
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 4: Uh.

1235
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 18: So it's been kept anonymous for all of this time

1236
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 18: until just up until a few days ago, there was

1237
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 18: a little bit of a public pressure to find out

1238
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 18: who exactly bought this ranch. Now he has not personally

1239
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 18: addressed his purchase of the ranch, but his campaign has.

1240
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:53,639
Speaker 3: Oh he's running for office right now.

1241
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 18: He's Yeah, so he's running for Texas Comptroller at this

1242
01:08:57,560 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 18: current moment, which very interesting.

1243
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 5: You know, handles all the cash in the state of Texas.

1244
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 6: Bought this ranch.

1245
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,640
Speaker 3: Ranch. Yeah, yeah, quietly makes sense.

1246
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 18: And it looks like, say, yeah, do you have the

1247
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 18: statement for the that the campaign gave on this.

1248
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 3: Yes, we sure do so.

1249
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 5: The statement is four years after mister Epstein's death, the

1250
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 5: Hufbins family purchased property in New Mexico listed at public

1251
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:32,759
Speaker 5: auction whose proceeds benefited his victims. Prior to the listing auction,

1252
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 5: they had never visited the property.

1253
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 18: I have a lot of questions about this out the

1254
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 18: gate because well, let's go at him. Well, I mean,

1255
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:45,879
Speaker 18: how can you let this property go for Well, Epstein

1256
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 18: died in twenty nineteen, so he buys it four years later,

1257
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 18: and we don't know who bought it for another three years.

1258
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 18: I mean, what's been happening for the last what seven years?

1259
01:09:57,160 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 7: I mean that's a lot of time.

1260
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 3: What's be going to say to bleeps the walls? Yeah?

1261
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:01,680
Speaker 4: Right?

1262
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 3: Or is anybody working there.

1263
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 2: Is it possible that there's been a full staff and

1264
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 2: people working there as if business is usual and.

1265
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 18: There people have there have been sleuths who've been around

1266
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 18: the ranch over the last few years, and when they go,

1267
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 18: people have flown drones over it, and it seems like

1268
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:23,439
Speaker 18: there's still an operation happening there. There's like vans, there's

1269
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 18: like all these red vans and uh, if you get

1270
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 18: too close to the property, the vans come out and

1271
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 18: what Yeah, well, remember.

1272
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 2: You know it is really you're also at the ranch

1273
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 2: if you're going there purposefully and according to reports, And

1274
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 2: again this is why we want everybody's opinions because correct

1275
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:45,120
Speaker 2: as if we're wrong, what happened according to reports it's

1276
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:46,000
Speaker 2: fully active.

1277
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 3: What does that even mean? What does that act well mean?

1278
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:52,800
Speaker 5: So I'll tell you what we know for sure, because

1279
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:54,439
Speaker 5: there is there's a lot of a debate and there's

1280
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 5: I don't know anything, there's a lot.

1281
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 3: Okay.

1282
01:10:56,160 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 5: So, during this time when Jeffrey Epstein was alive and

1283
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 5: their survivors alleged that the ranch was structured to be

1284
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 5: a controlled environment for not just sexual abuse, but psychological

1285
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 5: manipulation and experimentation. This included mechanical and surveillance rooms and

1286
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 5: pinhole cameras throughout. Okay, it is legally confirmed that multiple

1287
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 5: miners were trafficked to the ranch and they were traffic

1288
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 5: there to be groomed, sexually, exploited, and abused. And this

1289
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 5: includes Annie Farmer, Virginia Dufray, and then two miners named

1290
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 5: in Gleyne Maxwell's crime documents, Jane Doe and Jane and

1291
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 5: also this so while all that was going on, the

1292
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 5: ranch was also I guess throwing parties. Prince Andrew was there,

1293
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:54,800
Speaker 5: New Mexican Governor Bill Richardson was hanging out, Noam Chomsky,

1294
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:58,760
Speaker 5: Woody Allen, and these young women would be there to

1295
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 5: quote entertainment.

1296
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 4: I know, Sixico is kind of notorious for labs, you

1297
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:09,679
Speaker 4: know what I mean.

1298
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 2: That's what they're said to be there for. So this

1299
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 2: is where this story has to be. I don't know

1300
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 2: what chunk to focus on because then it goes by

1301
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 2: so sideways. Alert, but this is the conversation.

1302
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 4: I'm yes, there's a lot of labs. Yeah, because it's

1303
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 4: known for this, right, Yeah, tell me, I don't know this, Adam,

1304
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 4: Do you want to say what's stuck out to you?

1305
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:33,880
Speaker 4: Any of the specific details or I'm happy to go.

1306
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 7: Well, I'll mention.

1307
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:38,799
Speaker 18: Uh, you know, we talk a lot about the island

1308
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:41,719
Speaker 18: and how when girls are taken to the island, it's

1309
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 18: a very threatening atmosphere because you're on an island, you know,

1310
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:50,400
Speaker 18: you can't escape. This ranch is similar in a way

1311
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 18: because you're just in the middle of nowhere. You know,

1312
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 18: it's like and you have to go up like a long,

1313
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 18: windy road to get to the ranch.

1314
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 7: And so it's a similarly similarly moved.

1315
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to look at video and photos. I'm

1316
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 3: going to your mind. There's like it's a thing you

1317
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:10,599
Speaker 3: go there. If you try to.

1318
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:14,679
Speaker 2: Run away and run in the heat or in the night,

1319
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 2: you wouldn't make it. And I don't think I'm exaggerating,

1320
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 2: Adam cut me off. If I'm exaggerating those I don't think.

1321
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 2: So it's desolate. It is intentionally desolate.

1322
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:27,720
Speaker 18: And the thing with the New Mexico Ranch is you

1323
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 18: have some of the most like wild accusations of things

1324
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:36,280
Speaker 18: that are going down there where it gets to you know,

1325
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 18: Epstein's weird what do you call it, His like eugenic

1326
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:43,920
Speaker 18: sort of ideas and all of that. So there's all

1327
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 18: of like sort of the wildest accusations of there might

1328
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 18: have been experiments happening there, maybe like children were being

1329
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:54,480
Speaker 18: birthed there, like all sorts of wild stuff.

1330
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 4: Like fertility testing, harvesting, things like transhumanism and all.

1331
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:03,639
Speaker 5: So how Jeffrey Epstein and he reportedly wanted to create

1332
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 5: superior offspring by impregnating women at this You asked, why

1333
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:11,639
Speaker 5: do you need twenty seven thousand square feet? Now, well,

1334
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 5: if you're impregnating twenty women at a time, which allegedly

1335
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 5: was his plan, you need some rooms and one teen

1336
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:21,360
Speaker 5: if you remember, and this was we've seen this in

1337
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 5: the document.

1338
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 2: Fact, we're seeing this unfold. It's so much information. Yes,

1339
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 2: in court, you're doing a great job.

1340
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 3: There's so much information.

1341
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 6: Right.

1342
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:33,280
Speaker 5: A teen allegedly gave birth there in two thousand and two,

1343
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 5: with the child taken minutes after birth by Glaye Maxwell.

1344
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 2: But there was nothing to see in these files. So again,

1345
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:45,200
Speaker 2: this is an information that has been there this entire time.

1346
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 4: Hold up, A teenager gave birth to a baby at

1347
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 4: the ranch, and minutes after it was delivered, Glaine Maxwell

1348
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 4: shows up and takes the baby, takes is this this

1349
01:14:59,320 --> 01:14:59,680
Speaker 4: was in?

1350
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 3: It's in? Yeah, I've seen it's her diary entry Adam.

1351
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 18: Yeah, yeah, this this comes from what seems to be

1352
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 18: a diary that was kept by one of the victims.

1353
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 18: It seems to have been kept in real time and

1354
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 18: I don't remember if it was specifically at the New

1355
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 18: Mexico ranch, but yeah, she was.

1356
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:22,479
Speaker 7: She describes multiple pregnancies.

1357
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 3: Which does she say who the father was?

1358
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 18: I believe she names Epstein at least one of the pregnancies.

1359
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 18: It's really dark, and it's it's all you know, it's unverified.

1360
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 18: It seems you can judge for yourself of it. But right,

1361
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:46,599
Speaker 18: But this is why it's so strange and important that

1362
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 18: this ranch wasn't you know, it's the sole property that

1363
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 18: was not investigated.

1364
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:54,400
Speaker 2: You've never even investigated it, not one time.

1365
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 3: And they've known there opening this probe.

1366
01:15:57,760 --> 01:15:59,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, they've known about it this entire time. And

1367
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 2: they who Tina Pharmer, she was a liar. They've done

1368
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 2: that for decades. That story they specifically told her was untrue,

1369
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 2: and we now know it's true.

1370
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:12,759
Speaker 3: And if that's true, what else is true?

1371
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:16,600
Speaker 2: So the and then and then and then become so

1372
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 2: overwhelming that it's like, yeah, people cover that.

1373
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:21,680
Speaker 3: So it's almost like, let's park it.

1374
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:26,559
Speaker 2: That's like you heard the stretched broad strokes version. Now

1375
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 2: we go back to the Zoro ranch, where, at the

1376
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:32,680
Speaker 2: bare minimum, this is a crime scene, or an alleged

1377
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:37,280
Speaker 2: crime scene that people alleged very bad things happen there.

1378
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:41,559
Speaker 2: Why was that never investigated? That doesn't make any sense.

1379
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:47,040
Speaker 5: And speaking of things that don't make sense, So in

1380
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 5: two thousand and seven, the FBI went there to interview

1381
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,760
Speaker 5: some the ranch manager, someone who managed the property, and

1382
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:58,480
Speaker 5: they're asking, you know, sort of basic questions my understanding.

1383
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,880
Speaker 5: Beginning of the interview, this report noted that someone called

1384
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 5: the staff and that whoever is on the other end

1385
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 5: of that phone said, hey, you're not allowed to speak

1386
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,800
Speaker 5: with authorities. They said to FBI, sorry, this is over.

1387
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:16,440
Speaker 5: And apparently as of two thousand and seven, having.

1388
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 4: More back, Yeah, what so this is right before his

1389
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 4: first conviction, right two thousand and eight in Florida, right

1390
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 4: where he was convicted of these crimes that were happening

1391
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:26,599
Speaker 4: in Florida.

1392
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 3: Correct, So this is right.

1393
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 4: So they were investigating it, and at least initially, it

1394
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:33,640
Speaker 4: seems like while they were investigating his two thousand and

1395
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:37,559
Speaker 4: eight crime were conviction and they just said them, oh, goodbye,

1396
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:39,760
Speaker 4: we're not saying where we've been instructed not to speak

1397
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 4: with you.

1398
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:42,960
Speaker 5: Right, And I'm sure the FBI if I was like, hey,

1399
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 5: I'm not feeling this conversation right now, I'm sure they'd

1400
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 5: never come back.

1401
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 3: To my door again.

1402
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:47,320
Speaker 6: Right.

1403
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:51,720
Speaker 3: Interesting, it's interesting, really.

1404
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 4: Okay, transhumanism. I wonder if those those weird genetics eugenics

1405
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:02,680
Speaker 4: and things like that with Peter Teal come in. Oh ya,

1406
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:03,479
Speaker 4: do we know if he was?

1407
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 18: Oh yeah, I have plenty of discussions between Epstein and

1408
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 18: Peter tele on these topics. Yeah, many emails back and forth.

1409
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:13,839
Speaker 3: I'm heading into that myself.

1410
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, and lots of connections with Santa Fe Institute scientists.

1411
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 4: Oh really, who wow, I'm on pins and needles for that.

1412
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 4: I'll be digging into that. Stick around. We've got more

1413
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:28,280
Speaker 4: to dig into. Adam again, he's a superstar tonight. He's

1414
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 4: lining up the talkbacks, your theories and your questions.

1415
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 3: We can't ignore.

1416
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 4: Keep it right here, True Crime Tonight.

1417
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1418
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

1419
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:53,040
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body. Move in and listen. We have

1420
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 2: Adam making his debut. We are talking all things Epstein,

1421
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,679
Speaker 2: a little bit more about the Zarrow ranch.

1422
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:02,200
Speaker 3: Let's go to we talk about.

1423
01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 15: Hi, ladies, this is Quinn. Been listening to your coverage

1424
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:07,760
Speaker 15: on the Epstein files and it really makes me sick

1425
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:09,559
Speaker 15: to my stomach to think that these guys might just

1426
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:10,400
Speaker 15: get away with it.

1427
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:11,240
Speaker 3: I'd really like to.

1428
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 15: Think we don't live in a world where that could happen,

1429
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:15,920
Speaker 15: but it's starting to seem more and more likely that

1430
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 15: we do. I just find it hard to believe that

1431
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 15: sex trafficking is the only crime that these guys would

1432
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 15: have been committing. Is there anything in the files that

1433
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:24,640
Speaker 15: points to other criminal wrongdoing? I mean, we got al

1434
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:28,160
Speaker 15: capone on tax evasion, good smart.

1435
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:32,840
Speaker 2: So plenty asking me we can do tax evasion, right,

1436
01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:38,520
Speaker 2: where is stormy deals? I don't know, man, It's pretty disturbing.

1437
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 3: It is really disturbing.

1438
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:43,600
Speaker 2: I mean there's not even I mean again, we are categorizing.

1439
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 2: We're doing it in such small chunks because you know,

1440
01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 2: you don't know what's real, what's completely inflammatory, and what's

1441
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:54,600
Speaker 2: really scary and important because it's all real time.

1442
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 4: Too, right, Like it's it's stuff like that you think,

1443
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:01,559
Speaker 4: like is all crazy conspiracy, but it's real.

1444
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:03,320
Speaker 3: It's it just.

1445
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 2: Seems conspiracy talk is back on the table, oh number one.

1446
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 2: I mean I think you know, Justin Bieber was telling

1447
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 2: us this this entire time.

1448
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:13,759
Speaker 3: You know, this is stuff.

1449
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 2: This is coded language that has in fact been used,

1450
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:19,320
Speaker 2: you know, a couple of years ago that would have

1451
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:23,280
Speaker 2: sounded really fringe and really out there. And I think

1452
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:27,160
Speaker 2: what we're seeing for sure is that we are more

1453
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 2: alike and that there is a very small little pocket

1454
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:35,200
Speaker 2: that's sort of you know, playing us all against each other,

1455
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:37,400
Speaker 2: potentially for the sickest of reasons.

1456
01:20:37,439 --> 01:20:40,040
Speaker 3: So what was this immediate?

1457
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:43,880
Speaker 2: There's some good things happening throughout the world, some big,

1458
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:47,559
Speaker 2: actionable things that are happening, even just this probe into

1459
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:51,880
Speaker 2: this ro ranch. That's justice finally at last for so

1460
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 2: many victims who are getting lost in the sensationalism of it,

1461
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:57,639
Speaker 2: and they're just the tip of the iceberg.

1462
01:20:57,840 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 3: We're learning.

1463
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:03,400
Speaker 4: Well, there's like the first arrest like post you know,

1464
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 4: Epstein file release and it's guess who it is. The

1465
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 4: former Norwegian prime minister has been arrested. This is like

1466
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:16,040
Speaker 4: the first big arrest that's happened since the release. I mean,

1467
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:19,599
Speaker 4: that's kind of the former Prime Minister of Norway.

1468
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 3: Are you kidding me? It's huge, Yeah, that's huge. Uge.

1469
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:27,240
Speaker 4: Do you guys remember that email that we were talking

1470
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:29,719
Speaker 4: about that was like, oh I really loved that torture

1471
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 4: video that was sent to Jeffrey Epstein. Well that sent

1472
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 4: that was sent by a guy named Sultan Ahmed bin Sulaim,

1473
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 4: and he's also on the list of six I think

1474
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:44,400
Speaker 4: that we read the other night. Well, he just resigned

1475
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:48,559
Speaker 4: from his big fancy job where he's in charge of

1476
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 4: all these shipping lanes and whatnot, shipping containers and whatnot,

1477
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:55,559
Speaker 4: which we thought maybe, you know, when you think of

1478
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 4: like traditional trafficking, that's what I think of.

1479
01:21:58,120 --> 01:21:59,720
Speaker 6: I think of shipping containers.

1480
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:02,800
Speaker 4: And so when I saw this guy, I was like, oh,

1481
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 4: oh my god, and he sends I love this torture video.

1482
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 3: Well he just resigned. He's no longer CEO DP port

1483
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:10,799
Speaker 3: or then really.

1484
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:13,960
Speaker 2: Even think about ports, you know, and we are talking

1485
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:18,919
Speaker 2: about shipping. These are people who control our financial welfare,

1486
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 2: honestly individually and as as a country. But yeah, it's

1487
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:29,559
Speaker 2: not that far fetched that there are humans in rates, right.

1488
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:31,720
Speaker 4: And he was the chairman and the CEO, I mean

1489
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:34,640
Speaker 4: this guy was at the top and this is like

1490
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:40,120
Speaker 4: a massive billion, billion dollar company and he just resigned.

1491
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, how about the Hyatt hotels think about human trafficking.

1492
01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 3: We're going to we'll cover it more tomorrow, Okay, cause

1493
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:50,400
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know. I don't know that one.

1494
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:51,679
Speaker 3: I'm done a hotel path.

1495
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:55,759
Speaker 5: Oh. They were also from Columbia. And this is another

1496
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 5: thing that will I think dig into properly is whatever

1497
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 5: information we can find out about Jeffrey Epstein's former girlfriend,

1498
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 5: the one the last person he spoke with and he

1499
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 5: sent to school correct and sent some strings to get

1500
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 5: her into Columbia Dental School after she wasn't allowed in

1501
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:19,679
Speaker 5: on the merit of her grades. Well, Columbia has now

1502
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 5: punished to people who helped get her in, who corroborated,

1503
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 5: and also around the time, there was a donation given

1504
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 5: that seemed too conveniently tied to that from Ebstein and

1505
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:37,760
Speaker 5: so that's gone to a couple of charities.

1506
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 4: Do we know what the punishment And how does a

1507
01:23:40,479 --> 01:23:43,360
Speaker 4: university punish somebody they're not working.

1508
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:47,920
Speaker 3: It's they're not there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they worked. It

1509
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 3: was Dean.

1510
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:56,280
Speaker 5: It was a doctor, doctor Thomas mcnanni and doctor Letty

1511
01:23:56,360 --> 01:24:02,960
Speaker 5: Moss Salentgen and yeah, so they cut all ties and

1512
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:07,080
Speaker 5: you know, stripped all duties the school and then did

1513
01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:10,240
Speaker 5: you guys see this was shocking to me. This was

1514
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:19,840
Speaker 5: from Friday. What Thomas Massey Representative Thomas Massey Court tweted I.

1515
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:22,479
Speaker 4: Died when I saw this. I literally had to check

1516
01:24:22,479 --> 01:24:23,960
Speaker 4: to see if it was him for real?

1517
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:24,560
Speaker 6: What was it?

1518
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 3: Oh my god? He buckle up and Thomas Massy.

1519
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 5: If you're not familiar, he's one of people who has

1520
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:38,759
Speaker 5: been actually absolutely leading the charge to get these files opened.

1521
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 5: He put on X, I am not suicidal. I eat

1522
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 5: healthy food. The brakes on my car and truck are

1523
01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 5: in good shape. I practice good trigger discipline and never

1524
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:51,960
Speaker 5: point a gun at anyone, including myself. There are no

1525
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:54,559
Speaker 5: deep pools of water on my farm, and I'm a

1526
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:55,799
Speaker 5: pretty good swimmer.

1527
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:04,320
Speaker 2: He's right, yeah, yeah, entirely.

1528
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:08,640
Speaker 4: Wow, Yes, this is this is like our government. Like

1529
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:12,200
Speaker 4: leaders in our government they're saying this, you know.

1530
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:16,679
Speaker 18: When they were when Pam Bondi was testifying last week,

1531
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 18: people had saw on a photo she had her notes

1532
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 18: out and she had a list of lists. Yeah, like

1533
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 18: a search history of what Congress people were searching in

1534
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:30,000
Speaker 18: the Epstein files, so they're keeping track of all that stuff.

1535
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:30,839
Speaker 7: Which is spooky.

1536
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:33,040
Speaker 3: It's very spooky.

1537
01:25:33,200 --> 01:25:36,120
Speaker 4: So the guy that when I saw Thomas Massey, who

1538
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:38,240
Speaker 4: he's a Republican, I think he's out of Kentucky, is

1539
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:38,599
Speaker 4: that right?

1540
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 3: I think he's Kentucky.

1541
01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:45,559
Speaker 2: He has been raising his hands and yeah, man, you

1542
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 2: know on his shoulders.

1543
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:52,040
Speaker 3: He's not going down. I respect the heck out of that.

1544
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:54,280
Speaker 4: I mean, I definitely respect the heck out of that.

1545
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 4: But when I saw that tweet, I had a double take.

1546
01:25:57,880 --> 01:25:59,800
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, this is some troll, you know.

1547
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:02,000
Speaker 4: I clicked on it and I went to it and

1548
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, it's real, holy crap.

1549
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 4: So he must feel I wonder if he got like

1550
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:11,639
Speaker 4: a threat like an in real to like, well.

1551
01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:13,640
Speaker 3: You know, or don't on anyone.

1552
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 2: But no, I think I think anyone who's putting themselves

1553
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:21,840
Speaker 2: out there to that degree, and that number is increasingly

1554
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 2: getting higher as people kind of weave through some of

1555
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:28,599
Speaker 2: this because you know, there is a lot of noise

1556
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:33,280
Speaker 2: around it where you get fatigued. But yeah, I mean,

1557
01:26:33,439 --> 01:26:35,280
Speaker 2: we can't just report on it flippantly.

1558
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 3: Wow.

1559
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 4: Okay, So the guy in Norway. Do you guys want

1560
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:43,720
Speaker 4: to tell you what's going on there? Crimester okay, and

1561
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 4: now I'm gonna butcher the pronunciation, but Thorbjorn Jaglund Okay.

1562
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:54,920
Speaker 4: He's been charged with aggravated corruption after a police probe

1563
01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 4: into his alleged ties into Jeffrey Epstein. And this is

1564
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:05,479
Speaker 4: a core to the law firm representing him. Eden Law

1565
01:27:05,479 --> 01:27:09,160
Speaker 4: firm confirmed CNN on Thursday that Jagland is charged with

1566
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:13,760
Speaker 4: aggravated corruption and added that he denies all charges, like

1567
01:27:14,320 --> 01:27:16,400
Speaker 4: we don't have a prime minister here, but it's like

1568
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:19,760
Speaker 4: basically the president. Oh yeah, right, if you if you

1569
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:24,639
Speaker 4: look at you know, other countries, it's basically their president

1570
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:28,680
Speaker 4: of Norway, the former president of Norway correct has been

1571
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:33,200
Speaker 4: arrested or charged, I should say, charge with aggravated coruption

1572
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:37,120
Speaker 4: and connection with the This is the first I think major.

1573
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:41,120
Speaker 2: Let's look at the UK, so we saw them. You know,

1574
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:45,760
Speaker 2: Prince Andrew's been really kicked down the club. He's had

1575
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 2: to move into what he would consider shanti conditions. But

1576
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:53,280
Speaker 2: there is a real call for a criminal investigation and

1577
01:27:53,439 --> 01:27:56,880
Speaker 2: interviews with him. So that's not going away anytime soon.

1578
01:27:57,439 --> 01:27:59,800
Speaker 2: Remember to set the stage, we have the Clintons both

1579
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 2: and Hillary coming in back to back. That's just around happening.

1580
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:06,519
Speaker 4: Do we know that's supposed to be next week, but

1581
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:08,320
Speaker 4: next that's supposed to be live.

1582
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:10,880
Speaker 3: Are they just calling somebody's bluff?

1583
01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:14,679
Speaker 7: Isn't Less Wexner supposed to testify?

1584
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:17,800
Speaker 2: The less Wexner is supposed to be this week up

1585
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:21,080
Speaker 2: until now, that has never happened before. So what does

1586
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 2: that mean? And why are we not talking about it more?

1587
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:30,240
Speaker 5: The Clintons, by the way, their depositions are scheduled for

1588
01:28:30,439 --> 01:28:35,920
Speaker 5: February twenty seventh for Bill and February twenty sixth for

1589
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 5: Hillary were filmed transcribed sworn depot depositions.

1590
01:28:41,280 --> 01:28:41,639
Speaker 3: Okay.

1591
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:44,960
Speaker 4: Also, it's not going to be live in front of Congress, Okay,

1592
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:45,600
Speaker 4: I thought it was.

1593
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:48,920
Speaker 3: Going to be testimony. My bad, she wants it to be.

1594
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 2: I thought that's apportingly Apparently Hillary Clinton has said even

1595
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:55,479
Speaker 2: to the BBC I believe today that she would have

1596
01:28:56,280 --> 01:29:00,719
Speaker 2: preferred it being live. And maybe they're all just calling

1597
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:03,240
Speaker 2: each other's bluffs. I don't know, but it seems like

1598
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:05,720
Speaker 2: they're all a part of a much bigger conversation.

1599
01:29:05,320 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 3: That we aren't. There's just too much. It's so much

1600
01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 3: to track in my little brain.

1601
01:29:14,240 --> 01:29:17,000
Speaker 11: I think the way we're handlier in small chunks is

1602
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:20,439
Speaker 11: the logical way, so that you can kind of digest

1603
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:21,719
Speaker 11: just breaking.

1604
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:24,559
Speaker 3: In the most important thing. That is what we have

1605
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 3: to look for. We have to follow the money.

1606
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 2: Let's not get caught in the cesspool of names in

1607
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:34,920
Speaker 2: the in the bigness of that, it's like, those are

1608
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:37,720
Speaker 2: the names that we're getting, by the way, all of

1609
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 2: our world leaders.

1610
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:39,840
Speaker 3: Let's go beyond that.

1611
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 2: I think it's even further than that, and I think

1612
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:49,320
Speaker 2: that's the real club. And yeah, it's disorienting to realize

1613
01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 2: that so many things that seemed impossible to believe or

1614
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 2: very much on the table now. So we've got to

1615
01:29:58,280 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 2: keep our wits about us and keep our you know,

1616
01:30:01,120 --> 01:30:06,040
Speaker 2: our frequency high. Only high vibes are allowed, and you know,

1617
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:07,040
Speaker 2: we'll waddle through this.

1618
01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:09,919
Speaker 3: There is you know, this is a world's made of good.

1619
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:14,799
Speaker 4: So it happens to people when they get so much power?

1620
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 3: This depraved? Did they become depraved?

1621
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 6: Like?

1622
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:18,760
Speaker 3: What is it?

1623
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:22,519
Speaker 4: Because? Is it because it's something they can't have? It's

1624
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:24,360
Speaker 4: like the forbiddenness of it?

1625
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 6: Ess you have access to everything?

1626
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:31,040
Speaker 3: Is it a truth? Is that a trade is that

1627
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:32,439
Speaker 3: all true. I don't know.

1628
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:35,519
Speaker 2: I'm too afraid to even think about it, but it

1629
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:38,160
Speaker 2: does seem like there is some there is a trade

1630
01:30:38,280 --> 01:30:41,799
Speaker 2: for sure, or that there's bloodlines involved. That gets spoken

1631
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:44,600
Speaker 2: about a lot. I don't know anything about it. This

1632
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:48,400
Speaker 2: is chatter on the internet, you know. But this goes

1633
01:30:48,439 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 2: back to a world coin, and you know there's all

1634
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 2: conspiracy theories that you know, I see.

1635
01:30:53,160 --> 01:30:53,679
Speaker 3: All of it.

1636
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:58,680
Speaker 2: You don't report about it, but you know that's the speculation.

1637
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:01,880
Speaker 2: But it's hard to kick it back into the into

1638
01:31:01,960 --> 01:31:05,200
Speaker 2: the pot without giving it a second look because you're thinking, well,

1639
01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:09,559
Speaker 2: I don't know what. What's not real anymore? And it

1640
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:11,840
Speaker 2: seems like everything's on the table at this point.

1641
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:14,400
Speaker 4: Well, did you guys see that they're starting to cancel

1642
01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:16,160
Speaker 4: school pictures?

1643
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:22,040
Speaker 2: School pictures should Yeah, Leon cracking generations of kids.

1644
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 18: Yeah.

1645
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:25,240
Speaker 4: Leon Black owns like one of the largest I can't

1646
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:27,640
Speaker 4: remember the name of the company now, but it's one

1647
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 4: of the largest.

1648
01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:29,799
Speaker 3: Is it Shutterfly?

1649
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:33,960
Speaker 18: No, yeah, it's a shutterfly is owned by something and.

1650
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the it's the one above it that I

1651
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:36,720
Speaker 4: can't reb.

1652
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:38,719
Speaker 2: Let's get the one above it. Let's get that accurate.

1653
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:40,960
Speaker 2: I do believe it's the parent company.

1654
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:43,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, they do all like not all, but they do

1655
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:47,160
Speaker 4: a lot of school pictures for children. Well, my friend,

1656
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:50,000
Speaker 4: my friend Niho, Hei Niho, if you're listening, my friend

1657
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:53,720
Speaker 4: Niho sent me a post from like her kids school

1658
01:31:54,120 --> 01:31:56,320
Speaker 4: that said they canceled picture day this year because of

1659
01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:57,600
Speaker 4: the Epstein files.

1660
01:31:58,880 --> 01:32:06,639
Speaker 2: And then Maxwell's father also owned McGraw hill, who makes

1661
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:09,080
Speaker 2: all of our textbooks in the United States.

1662
01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:14,479
Speaker 4: But yeah, they're canceling school picture day. Yeah, this is insane, and.

1663
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:17,800
Speaker 5: I believe it's actually I think it's Apollo Global Management.

1664
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 5: That might be Lifetlobal Management owns Shutterfly, which owns life Touch.

1665
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:31,000
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, reality is I think what we're seeing is

1666
01:32:31,080 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 2: a few people own everything and we're the only ones

1667
01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:37,320
Speaker 2: that don't know that. And I think that's been this

1668
01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:40,400
Speaker 2: great divide that actually we should all feel comforted.

1669
01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:42,880
Speaker 3: We're all the same, we've just been.

1670
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 4: We all just don't matter in the bigger picture in

1671
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:48,720
Speaker 4: their minds. But in my mind, we are the ones

1672
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:51,400
Speaker 4: who were to and they have to answer to us,

1673
01:32:51,439 --> 01:32:53,759
Speaker 4: and now is the time for them to start providing

1674
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 4: answers and let's get to the you know, the bottom

1675
01:32:57,240 --> 01:32:58,479
Speaker 4: of this stuff.

1676
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:00,200
Speaker 3: So follow the money.

1677
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:02,880
Speaker 2: So we should be looking at money and we should

1678
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:06,160
Speaker 2: be looking at DNA. There's like two pieces to this,

1679
01:33:06,400 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 2: like from a larger perspective, So just follow the cash.

1680
01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:15,320
Speaker 2: We're talking about massive amounts, hard to track. No, the

1681
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 2: bloodline stuff, we're going to put that aside.

1682
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:19,360
Speaker 3: That's okay. When you said DNA, what do you mean.

1683
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:23,879
Speaker 2: When I say DNA, the idea that is Jeffrey Epstein

1684
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:29,720
Speaker 2: involved in any way with his DNA inseminating.

1685
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 3: Anything with children. Okay, I'm on it. I'll take that.

1686
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:36,599
Speaker 3: And then a volume of.

1687
01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:42,280
Speaker 2: Trafficking happening at a very high level, and many people,

1688
01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:44,160
Speaker 2: at the bare minimum looked the other way.

1689
01:33:44,280 --> 01:33:48,200
Speaker 3: This is not new information, like they knew.

1690
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:52,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, and these are the people you know that we've

1691
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:58,040
Speaker 4: given the authority to manage our finances, our government, our businesses.

1692
01:33:58,120 --> 01:34:02,880
Speaker 3: Still happen right now, right it's helping time. I don't

1693
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:04,240
Speaker 3: know what to say. I'm speechless.

1694
01:34:05,439 --> 01:34:07,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I have the one that has to say it.

1695
01:34:07,840 --> 01:34:09,120
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, this is the end.

1696
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:11,920
Speaker 3: Oh my, I'm so sorry.

1697
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:14,040
Speaker 2: You can up. I don't mean to end on a

1698
01:34:14,120 --> 01:34:17,960
Speaker 2: downer note. I love you, Please pay safe. We'll be

1699
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:23,240
Speaker 2: back tomorrow with Joseph Scott Morgan talking forensics and listen

1700
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:24,799
Speaker 2: easy days ahead.

1701
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:28,920
Speaker 3: That's right, see you later. This is True Crime Tonight