WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Wonderland Murders 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.440 Thinking Sideways. It is not brought to you by a 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:06.120 school of murderous clown fish. Instead is supported by the 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.920 generous contributions of people like you, our listeners on Patreon. 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.800 Visit patreon dot com slash Thinking sideways to learn more 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:29.600 Thinking Sideways. I don't understand the stories of things. We 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:36.240 simply don't know the answer too. Hey everybody, and welcome 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.839 again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:44.160 as always, joined by Joe, and it's been a really 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.360 long time since we've done this. Yeah, for us, for you, 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.680 we've been putting out episodes us. We just finished the 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:54.720 summer series we're in. Yeah, we didn't do anything, no, 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:57.960 super awesome. It's really cool. Nice to get a break 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.200 here from all this hot action. But it's it's a 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.040 little weird now because it's been a long time and 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.400 I don't remember how to operate any of the equipment. 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.680 Did anybody remember to turn the mixer on? It appears 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.319 to be okay, okay, sweet, all right, well you know 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:13.800 we should we should get this off on a good foot, 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:16.160 so we've got to do the cheers, So everybody put 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.520 your hands in the circle and on three one two 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:29.600 three awesome okay, perfect, it's going to be another fine episode. Igod, 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:31.080 I got it wrong. It's supposed to be detch Lindy, 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:37.000 We're always all right. Um Well, this week, everybody, we 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.119 are going to talk about the Wonderland murders, which took 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:44.760 place on the first July in Los Angeles, California. And 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.960 a quick warning to our listeners. This story covers a 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.960 very brutal murder and it's gonna have a lot of 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:57.200 conversation surrounding drugs and pornography. So if that bothers you, 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.400 turn us off now. But or more importantly, if you 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.280 have little ears around, you need to pause us now 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.640 and come back later on your own. Little leaders don't 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:06.800 need this. Yeah, or you know, get those those ear 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:11.160 extension things come on earbuds headphones. No, you know the 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.280 things that make your ears look bigger, the spot ears. Yeah, 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:16.800 why so that you don't look like you have little 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:25.000 ears anymore. You would be thinking about it. You've got 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.480 kind of little ears. Okay, we're going to keep going. 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:32.239 Um So, before I move into anything about the story, 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:34.880 I do want to say that this was a listener's suggestion. 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.400 The first person to suggests this was Angel, So thank you. 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.320 Angel and anybody else who suggested it, thank you as well, 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.560 just don't have those written down. Oh, by the way, 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.639 I want to get a shout out to Elena, or 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.240 maybe it's Elena who was all hurt because I did 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.400 an episode and I forgot to give her a shout out, 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:58.000 so I was sorry, Elienough every time the list is big, 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.680 it is, but it does have us arch function like 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:05.680 our website. Yeah that's true. Okay, so let's go ahead 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:10.600 and get into our story. Uh. This story is typically 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.440 either referred to as the Wonderland murders or sometimes you'll 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.480 hear it called the police actually started calling it this 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.160 was the four on the Floor murders. You can probably 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.160 guess by that second name that four people were killed. 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:27.120 And if you know Los Angeles at all, you're going 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.600 to be aware of in the valley, it's uh, Wonderland 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:32.640 av and it's what's the name of the valley? I 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:37.680 just suddenly lost it. It's Laurel Canyon. Yeah, so it's 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:42.080 it's in Laurel Canyon, which I know I am already 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:43.880 screwed it up. See, we haven't done this since so long. 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.440 I don't know how to talk worth than normal. You 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:48.800 haven't spoken in like a month, I really haven't. I 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.600 took a vale of silence and everybody was happy. But anyway, 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.160 so that is where it took. All of this took place. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.040 So here's what we know as we take the story 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.400 from the start. Sometime in the night or possibly in 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:10.320 the early morning hours of July one, someone gained access 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:14.080 to the three story house at eight seven six three 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.880 Wonderland av and they proceeded to go through the house 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.680 and beat every person they found to death or nearly 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:26.560 to death with a pipe pipes ye, possibly plural. We 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.680 know that they were using pipes because of the fact 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.760 that they were threaded pipes. They had threads on the end, 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.920 and they left impressions in the bodies as well as 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.520 the walls and the furniture, and their heads in the 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:45.200 bodies and the furniture, in everything. It's yeah, it was brutal. 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.240 At the time of this attack, there were five people 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:53.160 in the house. The first person was twenty two year 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:58.680 old Barbara Richardson. Four people died. Five people were in 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:03.640 the house with the happy story sort of damage. Um, yeah, 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.080 well no, okay, so Barbara's the first person. Now, Barbara 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:11.080 was the girlfriend of a man named David Lynde. David 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.120 Lynde wasn't in the house at the time, but we're 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.240 going to talk about him a little bit more later on. 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:20.120 But she was sleeping downstairs on the couch and was 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.039 most likely the first one to die because she was 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.520 sleeping near the front door, and the access was gained 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.000 from the front door. Probably, yes, Okay, yeah, there was. 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.039 There was a garage and a front door, and from 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.400 what I can gather, I've never seen I've never gotten 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.840 a good picture of the garage to say that there 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:40.640 was stairs. I think it was you parked in the 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.000 garage and then you walked up the front step more 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.200 like a car poard sort of situation. Well, it was, 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.440 it was under the house. That's my impression is going 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:49.880 on to the right side of the house. There's just 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.159 there's an external stairway. Yeah. Well, that's the thing is 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.720 that I've seen the police footage and that's where I 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:56.800 was trying to figure out there was internal stairs from 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.240 the garage. Whenever you go on like Google street view. 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:04.679 Of course the garage stores closed and somebody lives, so anyway, 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.640 the access is most likely from the front door, which 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:09.320 was on the side of the house, and she was 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.919 sleeping on a couch on that floor that would have 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:13.800 been near that door. So she's probably the first one 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:15.920 to die. She more likely she might have been the 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.440 person who got up and answered the door. If if 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.040 she did indeed let somebody in, then yeah, she would 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:22.920 have been the first one to die. You're absolutely right 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:24.880 that it wouldn't have been died in her sleep. She 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.240 would have been awake for it. But that's hard to tell. Yeah, 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:33.400 that's completely total conjecture. We go to the first bedroom, 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.560 which I believe is on the same floor. The layout 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.120 of this house is weird because it's kind of narrow 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.719 and tall, tall because lots in that area, because it's 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.000 expensively Yeah, it's like San Francisco, you know, skinny tall 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:50.040 town home. So I believe the bedroom that was also 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.880 on the first floor. But in that bedroom, um, there 0:06:54.080 --> 0:07:00.479 was Ron Lonnius and his wife Susan. Now Susan bad 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:05.280 timing on her part, wasn't normally there. She was visiting 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:09.120 to try and fix her marriage with with Ron Lonnias. 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.440 But they were sleeping in this first lower bedroom and 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.920 they were probably the second and the third to be attacked. 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:20.560 She he was beat to death. He was killed. She, however, 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.760 was not killed. She was beaten so severely that she 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:28.160 suffered brain damage and amnesia. She has memory loss for 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.680 the whole event. She doesn't remember anything well reasonably, she 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:33.800 was beat so bad that they thought they had killed her. 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.120 And you're absolutely right, Yeah, it makes total sense that 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.880 she didn't. Her brain didn't catalog. Her brain was dead 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:45.239 maybe for a while effectively. I don't think intentional anymore, 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.760 but yeah, I think her brain might have been like okay, bye, yeah, 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.840 brain shutdown. Um, but okay, so then we're gonna move upstairs. 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:54.240 So now we have two people who are dead and 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:58.800 one who's alive. If we go upstairs to the master bedroom, 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:03.760 Billy dev Role and his girlfriend Joey Miller. Joy Miller. 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:07.600 It was her house. She owned the house, and Billy was, 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.680 you know, obviously her living boyfriend. By the way, she's 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.040 she's kind of all these people are a little bit 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.240 tragic in a sense. And because I've seen pictures of 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:19.520 Joy when she was younger and she was studying, she was, yeah, 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:24.040 and by the end she was What about Billy, he 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:26.080 was he was like an average looking guy. He was 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.920 kind of what about Ron was he looking no, no, no, 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:31.040 I mean there was nothing outstanding about any of these 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:35.800 people in the looks department. One. By this she had 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.040 come from a rather affluent beginning and then she had 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.440 slid downhill. One would assume she owned owned a home 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:46.200 in l ah even in the eighties. That still, yeah, 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.640 that she apparently looked like crap by the time she died. 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:50.800 But yeah, no, she looked really bad by the end, 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.160 just because of the drugs. But um so, anyway, they 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.800 are in the master bedroom and they were also both 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.920 beaten to death. There is footage of ailable of this 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.160 crime scene. The police who went into it, they described 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.040 it as an utter blood bath. They've said it looked 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.760 like somebody walk through the house with buckets of blood 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:15.280 throwing it around. That's how brutally these people were beaten. 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.240 This was one of This was such a drum just 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:23.040 crazy scene that for the first time ever, the Los 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.640 Angeles Police Department took a video camera in and video 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:32.200 videotape the entire scene. Get remember, this video technology is 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.240 not something that cops normally would have access to, but 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.440 they recorded the whole thing that's available on the internet. 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:41.160 I'm going to tell you now that it is not 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.280 for the faint of heart. If the sight of blood 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.800 bothers you, I wouldn't watch it. We're probably not gonna 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.920 link to it, but it is a very simple string 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.440 of Google you can find it. So how did the 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.160 police find out about this? Though? It's a very good question. 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.760 So we don't know if the attack happened in the 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:03.920 late night or early morning of the first July, but 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:08.080 the dark hours, the dark hours, but sometime during the 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.480 middle of the day on the first July. There's a 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.880 guy working next story. He he was a mover and 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:19.640 he kept hearing moans, he kept hearing noises, and what 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.400 he turned out he was hearing was Susan because she 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:26.400 was alive. Were they kind of town houses like really 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:31.160 close together together. There's super tight there is there's probably 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:37.280 ten five ft between him at the most. You know, 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:41.280 I always have, we knew, but now they're they're right 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:42.600 next to each other. And so what he did is 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:44.360 he walked up the house and he could I think 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.240 he looked at the door and he had seen that's 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:52.439 all he needed, and he called the cops. And so 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.720 the cops came, and some of the bodies were so 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.920 badly beaten that they couldn't identify them from their face. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.360 Is it took fingerprints and luckily they had all been 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:07.680 arrested before, right, they had all been uh it through 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.240 the system. Yeah, so they're their prints were in the 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:18.320 system luckily. Yeah. Yeah. So you know, it turns out 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.720 that whoever had committed this act, theoretically, at least we 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.720 believe or the police believe that whoever committed that these murders, 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.239 what they did is after they had killed everybody, they 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.880 tore the house apart because it was an utter disaster. 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.640 And they believe that what was going on is that 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.599 they were they were looking for drugs and money, no 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.600 doubt this was this was a drug house. It was 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:49.080 a drug house. And that's that's exactly why is that 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.640 if you haven't heard of this story before, you you've 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:55.679 got to be let in on this little secret, which 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:59.800 is Ron, Billy and Susan were part of what was 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:05.120 own as the Wonderland Gag. The gang was notorious for 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.079 selling drugs out of the house, and primarily they were 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:15.560 selling cocaine. They were all hooked on um heroin, but 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.840 they sold coke because it coke made the most money. 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.520 And I heard that these guys were actually kind of 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.199 blatant about what they were doing, because I heard about 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:25.680 like you know, people would come by and instead of 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:27.440 coming into the house, they just got to the lower 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.400 balcony and just say, tossed me the tossed me the 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.480 water cash and then they would drop the drop the 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.280 drugs down into their hands. Yes, I mean it was 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.360 the eighties in l A. It's not as though, you know, 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.680 when they were operating, everybody was doing that stuff. It 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.360 was kind of commonplace. Yeah, I guess, no offense to 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:49.880 anybody who's offended by that. Now, I meant it. I 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:54.440 meant the offense. I'm sorry sounds there for saying that 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.600 everybody was doing coke in the eighties in l A. 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.880 My mom for a reference, my mom lived in l 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.319 in the late seventies early eighties. So, I I know 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.320 you've heard some stories. I've heard some stuff. So here's 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.480 the thing. Let me let me give you a Let 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.480 me give you some information on what a class act 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:16.200 the Wonderland Gang was. So what they would do is 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.480 they would sell drugs, but to acquire drugs. Yeah, they 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.520 would buy drugs and resell them at a higher price, 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:27.000 but they would also steal drugs and what they would 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.240 do is they would go to other dealers. They would steal, 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.959 get police badges, you know, stolen or fake whichever, and 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.120 bust into somebody's house pretending to be the cops, steal 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.480 all their drugs and money, and then turn around and 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.800 sell those drugs back on the street. And so it 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.920 was nothing but but pure profit of that. Yeah, and really, 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:50.720 what are you gonna do. You can't call the cops 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.480 and be like, hey, somebody stole my cocao. Actually is 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:56.560 one thing you can go buy and beat them to 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.840 death with the pipe if you know who it is. Yeah. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:01.680 That's the thing is that these guys they had to 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:03.840 look like cops. So it wasn't as if they were masked. 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.240 If they showed up with police badges and mass everybody like, 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.040 you're not really a cop, screw you. But when you 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:10.720 show up as a you know, with a gun and 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:16.400 a badge, people tend to not resist. And that's that's 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:20.480 how they worked their magic. Um. This reminds me of 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.760 the first season of True Detective. Yeah, you know, do 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.920 you see did you watch that? Yeah? When you know 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:33.320 he goes undercover, Yeah, going to the house. Yeah, I 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.400 know what you're talking about. Crazy good series. You gotta 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.760 recommend that. Ye. So here's the thing is that drugs 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.320 people are coming and going to this house all the time, 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.200 and drugs are being sold out of the house all 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:48.520 the time. So that's part of the reason that when 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.880 the attack took place, it wasn't reported because all the neighbors, 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.120 I mean, it had to have been loud, there had 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.440 to be screams and shouts of just you know, pure 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:03.000 terror and pain, and and nobody called the cops because 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.880 they were like another freaking party next door and they're 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.920 just hopped up, and they would either ignore it or 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.040 is one lady said she turned up the TV to 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.160 drowned it out. Yeah. You know what I've actually noticed, 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:20.120 particularly if you are used to hearing screams a lot, 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:26.400 it's hard to delineate screams of like joy and a differentiation, yeah, 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.240 from screams of pain, particularly if you know, I mean, like, Okay, 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.600 so if if any of our neighbors started screaming, we 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.800 would immediately be like, oh God, something's wrong, right, But 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:40.000 if they're screaming all the time, if you scream, start 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.320 to tune it out, right, And you definitely aren't going 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.320 to tune in if suddenly it sounds a little different. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.560 So you know, I know that there are people out 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:50.840 there who will always say, well, no, you would you 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.680 can tell the difference between those screams, but I don't. 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.520 Well if the other thing is the neighbors might have 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.200 heard the screams and thought that sounds like somebody's being murdered. 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:03.480 But I really like those people, or even like or 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.800 even they've beat some other people up in the house before, 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.080 like the people who lived there would bring people and 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.160 beating them, you know, like, it's not if somebody tries 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.960 to screw you on a deal in your house, it's 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.400 a it's a well known fact that people get their 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.720 their ass handed to them for doing that. So you'd 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:23.040 be used to hearing this stuff. So we're we're gonna 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:28.760 keep moving on here, um as um as always. On 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:33.160 the first and July, people showed up at Wonderland av 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.880 at that house. This is not the cops, this is 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.520 not the mover. This is people who want their drugs 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.200 as and I need to get my fixed show up 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.800 and nobody answers the door. And it seems that the 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:50.640 door at this point was unlocked and open because people 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.240 apparently we're wandering through the house and going, oh, look, 0:16:55.040 --> 0:17:00.120 there's blood everywhere and they're dead. Hey, I'm gonna going 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.120 to ransack the place. Yeah, I think it's some money 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.240 to say I could sell this stuff to get some drugs, 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:06.920 and maybe they got drugs and maybe they got money, 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:12.040 and all their buddies, all their buddies see the corpses 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.200 and don't call the cops. They just ransacked the place. 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:19.000 And so people tearing through the house, So it made 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.960 the crime scene just that much more difficult for the police. 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.399 I watched a video with I think it was the 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.480 chief at the time, and you could tell that he 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:32.840 was freaking livid over the fact that people and he 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.760 didn't like addicts, I could tell that, and he was 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.119 just super mad that they had been going through the 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.439 house while all these people were dead and just didn't 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:46.399 didn't care. I don't. I mean it's hard a little bit. 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.800 I think if you're a drug addict, a lot of 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.959 times you aren't thinking I'm gonna pull the steed here. 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.840 You're not thinking clearly and rationally. So you show up 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.080 to your drug dealers house who's known drug dealers, and 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.159 you're there, you know, in the morning or whatever, and 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.679 you see that they're murdered, and you call the cops 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.119 and they say, okay, like you're really this is the 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.080 scenario you run through in your head, right, You're like, Okay, Well, 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.000 if I call the cops, the cops are gonna ask 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:16.000 what I'm doing here, and I don't have to have 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.760 a good reason to be here. So, like you guys 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:21.920 were cool. I'm sorry that this happened to you, but 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.280 I would rather not get thrown in jail. I'm going 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.520 to be a suspect. They're gonna book me. I'm going 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.159 to jail for the rest of my life. I get it, 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.320 totally understanding that I'm just walking away, I totally. But also, 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:39.359 there's such a thing as like anonymous nine one one calls. Yeah, Well, 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.320 you know the thing about it is is they those 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.720 guys had every reason to believe that somebody just like 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:45.919 him was going to show up twenty minutes later, an 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.480 hour later. You know, I discovered the body, so they 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:50.600 just figured I'll do a quick search, see if I 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:52.800 can put some smack or a little cash, and I 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:54.800 want to just leave. I do want to say something 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:58.160 because we're we're about to go into we're gonna dive 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:02.480 pretty deep into some rug adult behavior, some junkie behavior, 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.680 and there it's gonna come clear. I'm just gonna be 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.200 honest about this. I don't like junkies, and that's a 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.600 personal belief. I have problems with them. Now there is 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.240 there are people who think differently than I and believe 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:21.200 that you shouldn't blame someone who is suffering from an addiction. Well, 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.520 I don't agree with that. So my point is I'm 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:28.400 saying this now, let's agree to disagree. Please don't send 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:32.359 me emails to correct my thinking. Just just my belief 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.320 based on my experiences in life. Yeah, I'll say this, 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.040 and that as it happens to the best of us, 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.440 it happens to great people, and it happens to not 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.840 so great people. And let's just leave it there and 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.359 let's move forward with the story. I guess I was 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:47.920 just going to add that it is my sense that 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:52.640 these people, drug adult or not, we're not necessarily good people. Anyway, 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:56.680 they were not, and so so I think what Steve 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:58.399 is trying to say is that this is not a 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.760 sweeping generalization of everybody who's ever done drugs. Ever, We're 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.840 just talking about these people, and we are probably gonna 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.840 like forget and use some more. It's going to come 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.960 across the careful as bashing and I and if it does, 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.440 it's unintentional but things. But we're also, you know, sitting 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.480 in a studio drinking beer. So like, sorry, guys, but 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:24.679 here's our disclaimer. It's not a sweeping generalization, even when 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.800 it sounds like it. Okay, so let's move on. I 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.440 want to talk. So we just we talked about all 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:32.920 these lovely folks who have come through the house and 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:37.240 probably sifted through their belongings. Let's talk about a very 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:41.760 well known person who frequented the house on Wonderland Avenue. 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:44.840 Now he was in and out of there all the time. Yeah, 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.440 and that would be John Holmes. Yes, John Holmes of 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:52.600 the thirteen and a half inch notoriety. It was for 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:57.520 one thing, he's a very big star. Yeah. And he 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.920 had a long career and kind of really a big 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.680 width of a career as it was. Yeah, it really 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.760 was just spanned a lot of different he kind of 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:12.440 he did god get the whole hog. Um. On a 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.880 really odd side note here, before we get too much 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.399 into John Holmes or John Holmes anyway, Um, on a 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.760 side note, this somehow has turned out to be the 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:26.240 second story in a row where I've had Val Kilmer 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:31.000 playing the lead role of the person in my story. Well, 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:36.680 isn't that the new theme of our podcast? Because he 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:40.680 was in the Lion one that I did Lasts. Yeah, 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:44.800 and and he was in a movie called Wonderland portraying 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.359 John Holmes, which I will not recommend anybody watch. It 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:51.840 doesn't hold up. Just a conspiracy, oh in it's a conspiracy. 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:56.359 He was in a movie called Conspiracy. But you know, okay, 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.280 it was in a lot of movies. But also, you know, 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:03.040 I think it's it's easy to find um films with 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:05.240 l Kilmer. I mean, you know, given his like really 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.520 tragic past of you know, both of his parents being 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:16.760 murdered and him like really facing his deepest fear. That yeah, yeah, 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:18.600 that was that was. That was definitely another one of 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:24.160 his good movies. Um, okay, if anybody has ever seen 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:27.840 the movie Boogie Nights, uh, that is loosely based on 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:33.919 the life of John Holmes, It's okay, you know, oh, 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:43.000 you can keep going. I'll definitely not cut that. But yeah, 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:45.359 I know, if if some of the stuff then we 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:48.320 talk about sounds familiar, if you've seen that movie. It's 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:51.040 because it was modeled after his life. And we're now 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:54.160 gonna have to wait till Devin and Joe finish their music. 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.240 That song was put the best affect an airplane. Okay, 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:06.040 let's not get off track here. Was that not in 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:08.639 Boogie Night? It may have been? It might have been 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:14.600 it was an airplane. Sorry, Okay, I'm done. It's obvious 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:17.399 we haven't done this in a while. We're freaking looping 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:21.560 in with not back in our groove yet. Sorry, um okay. 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:25.960 For those who don't know about John Holmes, uh, he 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:30.879 was a porn star. He began his career as a 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:34.440