Speaker 1: He's the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft show. Cowboys on
Speaker 1: there war room for incenter news and draft analysis from
Speaker 1: deep within the confines of Cowboys headquarters at the Star
Speaker 1: in Fresco, Dallas Cowboys Selectie Elliott and now your hosts
Speaker 1: Dane Brugler, David Hellman and Brian brought us. Well, we're
Speaker 1: just one week away, one short week away from the
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen NFL Draft taking place in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Brian
Speaker 1: brought us here with Dane Brugler. David Hellman will join
Speaker 1: us here in a little bit and he's doing some
Speaker 1: TV work. Dane, Nice to have you back with us today,
Speaker 1: special episode, Today a special guest, special guest, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna introduce the special guests. And he's really a man
Speaker 1: that really doesn't need an introduction, but he deserves that honor. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, he's a Hall of Fame voter. He's one
Speaker 1: of the most respected to writers covering the National Football League,
Speaker 1: and he's a pillar of how the NFL Draft is
Speaker 1: now consumed by fans through the media and uh and
Speaker 1: really and one of the most important things. He's one
Speaker 1: of the major reasons why DeMarcus Ware was drafted to
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys. You could check out all his fine
Speaker 1: work with really one of my favorite sites because the
Speaker 1: interviews and stuff they do. The Talk of Fame Network,
Speaker 1: it's Rick Goslin. Rick, welcome to the Draft show pleasure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Steam company here. Yeah, well, no, we really do appreciate
Speaker 1: you being here. And you know, and I you know,
Speaker 1: and I've my my experienced Dane, I know that you've
Speaker 1: you've been working, you know, through this draft. My experience
Speaker 1: with Rick goes all the way back into the early
Speaker 1: nineties as one of the first when I was working
Speaker 1: with the Green Bay Packers. You know, it was his
Speaker 1: top one hundred that we use to conduct our own
Speaker 1: mock drafts. We didn't use our own boards, we use
Speaker 1: this man's sports one of the most connected writers, and
Speaker 1: I would be I would be proud to scout with him,
Speaker 1: you know, any day. The connections that he has and
Speaker 1: the eye that he has for players at thirty thirteen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's always always make this joke about Dane talks
Speaker 1: about his mock drafts and the goal was always to
Speaker 1: beat you. And he said he got the T shirt
Speaker 1: one year for taking you down. I think it's like
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, one of those years, I mean
Speaker 1: before I really started getting into this. I mean that
Speaker 1: was that was a prize possession that I beat. The
Speaker 1: Goose T shirt it's an extra ard, so I can
Speaker 1: never wear it, but I still have it at home. Okay.
Speaker 1: In a twenty eleven draft, it's my last mock draft. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was the only guy in America had all
Speaker 1: those quarterbacks up high, right. We didn't give out any
Speaker 1: T shirts. That yeah, T shirts, that's yeah, ponder, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: But it's it's such an honor to have you here, Rick,
Speaker 1: and and and I want I have to get you
Speaker 1: to tell the story, you know, as we get started here.
Speaker 1: And I mentioned it in the introduction of you about
Speaker 1: the Marcus ware. And I also want to get into
Speaker 1: this take. We're gonna have you like our normal day.
Speaker 1: I do want to pick Rick's brain about He's got
Speaker 1: a you know, his his list of guys, and he's
Speaker 1: learning these players like we are. I want to get
Speaker 1: his take on this. I want to also talk about
Speaker 1: two a little bit, the media and the draft. You know,
Speaker 1: when who to trust who not to trust, not specifically names,
Speaker 1: but when when do you start figuring out like, Okay,
Speaker 1: these guys, this is what I need to believe in
Speaker 1: because we play a big role in that. I think
Speaker 1: we influence people in the direction that the draft might go.
Speaker 1: And you know, and I learned it firsthand last year
Speaker 1: with my talk thought about Joey Bosa. You know, I
Speaker 1: was very critical of Joey Bosa. I think I've influenced No,
Speaker 1: I don't think. I know I influenced a lot of
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboy fans not to really fall in love with
Speaker 1: Joey Bosa, you know, Whereas on the other hand, you
Speaker 1: were very positive about Joey Bosa and you're like, well, Brian,
Speaker 1: you need to think about So I want to get
Speaker 1: into that about how our influence in the draft. But
Speaker 1: I do want to get into some of these players.
Speaker 1: We're gonna do some Twitter on the twenty two. I
Speaker 1: want fans to have the opportunity to ask you guys
Speaker 1: some questions about the draft coming up, and then I
Speaker 1: could say the final segment we're not going to do
Speaker 1: tell me more. But again, I want to get into
Speaker 1: just some more thoughts about players, specifically where you might
Speaker 1: think that some of these guys that we've got some risers,
Speaker 1: we've got some guys that are falling. I heard today
Speaker 1: the Tackle Bowls from Utah a lot of people going
Speaker 1: south on him because of some of the off the
Speaker 1: field stuff and all that. So I just need to
Speaker 1: kind of think that through. But before we really get started, though, Rick,
Speaker 1: I want you to tell the fans out there the
Speaker 1: story of how and I also set up the story. Rick,
Speaker 1: like I say, one of the most outstanding draft guys.
Speaker 1: He's got all these these general managers and coaches and owners,
Speaker 1: people that talk to him and give him inside He's
Speaker 1: tremendous a protecting his sources though, but giving you reasons
Speaker 1: why they will or will not take guys. But my
Speaker 1: experience with Rick was with the Marcus Ware in the
Speaker 1: two thousand and five draft, and we had we had
Speaker 1: sewn Merriman and De Marcus Ware as a tie really
Speaker 1: on our board with a grade of one. Oh and
Speaker 1: Bill Parcels wanted was looking at Merriman. He really, really,
Speaker 1: he was battling the scouts on Merriman. And but I
Speaker 1: want to I had a conversation with you the night
Speaker 1: before the draft, and really the Merriman Ware decision did
Speaker 1: not come down until Rick talked to Jerry Jones the
Speaker 1: next morning, so kind of tell the story. I set
Speaker 1: up the story, but talk about how that all came
Speaker 1: about the night before the draft, when you were actually
Speaker 1: sitting in New York City waiting on the draft, and
Speaker 1: I was I was always going to New York City
Speaker 1: to cover the draft, and my final mock came out
Speaker 1: in the morning of the draft. So I'd get to
Speaker 1: New York about eleven o'clock and then I would spend
Speaker 1: the next five hours doing my final mock. I always
Speaker 1: did three mocks. The first was based on my board,
Speaker 1: second was based on Team Mead, and the only month
Speaker 1: that matter was the last one right where all the
Speaker 1: good stuff went in. So I'd spend five or six
Speaker 1: hours and making a couple of final calls, and then
Speaker 1: i'd have people about six o'clock. People figured out that's
Speaker 1: what I had it done, and I get calls from
Speaker 1: gms and coaches, they will give me your mock. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I would talk to a lot of GMS and
Speaker 1: coaches on Friday, on the night before the direct right
Speaker 1: and tell them there was always something I did. I know.
Speaker 1: I know his time was very precious and I felt
Speaker 1: always privileged to be able to talk to you. It
Speaker 1: might be at one in the morning, but we were talking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I had I called Jerry on it because I
Speaker 1: knew they were looking at these two guys. And I said,
Speaker 1: let me, let me read you this. And I when
Speaker 1: I do my reports, my studies and these players, I'll
Speaker 1: talk to maybe twenty five people, be they scouts, coaches,
Speaker 1: personal doctors, GM's, head coaches, whatever, and they would give
Speaker 1: me comments and I would keep track of all the comments,
Speaker 1: taking notes as you're going along. And okay, so Jerry,
Speaker 1: let me read you these two things. And I read
Speaker 1: him DeMarcus Ware, and I read him Sean Merrin and
Speaker 1: Merriman and these were each each guy had twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five comments. And basically the point is, if you draft
Speaker 1: Marcus Ware, he will become a Pro Bowl player and
Speaker 1: he'll be a good citizen for the next ten years. Right.
Speaker 1: If you draft Sean Merriman, he'll be a Pro Bowl player.
Speaker 1: But the first time he's a Pro Bowl player, you
Speaker 1: got a problem. Yeah, because he's going to go. He
Speaker 1: thinks he's better than he is, right, And he and I,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of hashed that thing out, and what
Speaker 1: I'm told that kind of been bold in him. No,
Speaker 1: that didn't. Kind of that got it done because the
Speaker 1: next day Parcels was brought in with Stephen and that's
Speaker 1: when the decision was made. We didn't know which way
Speaker 1: that Jerry was going to go. And the last conversation
Speaker 1: he had was with Rick Goslin that night, the night
Speaker 1: before and they met with Parcels and we were all
Speaker 1: sitting in the draft room waiting for the draft to
Speaker 1: kick off. We had the eleventh pick that to start
Speaker 1: the day, and and you knew right then and there
Speaker 1: something was going to happen because Bill got called out
Speaker 1: of the draft meeting or out of the war room
Speaker 1: into a side office to talk about this, and Jerry
Speaker 1: came back with smiles. Stephen came back with smiles. Bill
Speaker 1: Parcels did not come back with a smile. And then
Speaker 1: Jerry made the announcement that we're gonna go with We're
Speaker 1: going with where? And I guarantee it. The last conversation
Speaker 1: he had was with Rick gos and I said that
Speaker 1: before and I believe it was that meeting. And this
Speaker 1: is where we talk about how the media can sway
Speaker 1: and you know, and let me ask you guys, this
Speaker 1: though is too and I after I make the statement, though,
Speaker 1: I really I believe in my heart that the reason
Speaker 1: why he the Marcus ware was here was because of Ricksmas,
Speaker 1: you know. And that just shows you though, with somebody
Speaker 1: that connected to the draft, to general managers, to coaches,
Speaker 1: you know, people decision makers, the information was credible, yes, right,
Speaker 1: Yeah that I never watched any tape. I didn't. I
Speaker 1: was a writer, I wasn't a scout, right, So what
Speaker 1: I did was talk to the people that do watch tape, right,
Speaker 1: that do make the decisions, and they give me and
Speaker 1: that they know that I'm I was great at protecting
Speaker 1: my sources, absolutely, and it was a given take often.
Speaker 1: You know, when I was doing my my my position board,
Speaker 1: I'll call up a receiver coach, I says, okay, here's
Speaker 1: my top fifteen, and we go through and eat to
Speaker 1: move that guy, that guy down. They knew they would
Speaker 1: get as much as I take there, right, They would said,
Speaker 1: why do you have him as your tenth wide receiver? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And that would And I know I'm responsible in a
Speaker 1: lot of builds for players that were taken. Yeah, deep snappers,
Speaker 1: wide receivers based on information I've had. I had teams
Speaker 1: during the Hey day. They called me when they were
Speaker 1: on the clock. Yeah, what do you have And you're
Speaker 1: sitting in New York, You're sitting at the at the
Speaker 1: Radio City Music Hall. What do you take your calls?
Speaker 1: Is there anything on this guy that we should know about? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I've had you know, but but the information was credible.
Speaker 1: It wasn't my opinion. It was like Dane said, a
Speaker 1: lot of people consider me the thirty third team, right
Speaker 1: because I was the only guy in the league that
Speaker 1: was talking to all thirty two teams, right, and everybody
Speaker 1: everybody trusted you. Yeah. Yeah, so they use me as
Speaker 1: as a resource. This is this is the consensus board.
Speaker 1: You know, you have your board, the Patriots have there
Speaker 1: as cool sad, there's this is the consensus board. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know it's and I talk about using his top
Speaker 1: one hundred. I'll never forget like guys like Jerry Jerry
Speaker 1: Junior walking in with his top one hundred and looking
Speaker 1: at our board and then looking at and looking at
Speaker 1: our board and looking at his top one hundred, and
Speaker 1: then the conversation would be, well, Goose has got him here.
Speaker 1: Goose has got him here, and you know, and everyone
Speaker 1: would get bent out of shape but me because I
Speaker 1: understood that Goose probably had it right. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: that's the thing that I was always kind of you know,
Speaker 1: but we would use his top one hundred as our
Speaker 1: mock because you never wanted to use your own board.
Speaker 1: Because you could set it up. You could say, okay,
Speaker 1: well let's manipulate it so our guys fall to us.
Speaker 1: You take his top one hundred, then you had a
Speaker 1: way of saying it. I used to pass out there.
Speaker 1: I used to pass out his top one hundred with
Speaker 1: the team needs, with everybody's team needs. And like Walter, Julia,
Speaker 1: if okay, Walter, you're the NFC North, You've got every
Speaker 1: time Green Bay, Detroit, Chicago, and then and they pick
Speaker 1: you get you pick a player for them. But we're
Speaker 1: going off his board. We're going off his top one hundred,
Speaker 1: and we're going off the team needs that we had.
Speaker 1: So that's great information. I mean, when it comes to
Speaker 1: the draft, information is power. Yeah, and that type of
Speaker 1: information having an understanding of how you know, because these
Speaker 1: teams obviously know these players, but having an understanding of
Speaker 1: how other teams view players helps, yeah, evaluation and to
Speaker 1: the value, where do you take them? Who might be available?
Speaker 1: For you. So yeah, it's I'll give you another I'll
Speaker 1: give you another example. Welcome David Hellman TV TV work today.
Speaker 1: I was actually late to the show because I was
Speaker 1: doing a seven round mock on one of our TV show.
Speaker 1: We'll get into your seven round mock that because we
Speaker 1: can do that. I made I made a call on
Speaker 1: that war draft in oh five because of him, Because
Speaker 1: of Rick Goslins, what he told me about what Minnesota
Speaker 1: and Cincinnati were gonna do ahead of me. This the thought, hey,
Speaker 1: they potentially could be because Bill Parcels, they were looking
Speaker 1: at looking at we were looking at Marcus Spears yeah
Speaker 1: at twenty and Bill wanted Marcus Spears man. Man, he
Speaker 1: wanted Marcus Spears at eleven. Yeah, And so all of
Speaker 1: a sudden it was like, okay, well let's figure out
Speaker 1: how to get Marcus Spears here. And Bill and Jerry,
Speaker 1: Jerry looked at me and goes, is there anybody that
Speaker 1: could take a defensive end? Before twenty and I had
Speaker 1: had a conversation with Rick about potentially some teams because
Speaker 1: I wanted to know. My job was to know. He says,
Speaker 1: you got to watch Cincinnati and you gotta watch Minnesota. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and with some just some gut not not fearing where
Speaker 1: my information was coming from. I said, worry about Cincinnati
Speaker 1: and Minnesota. Sure enough, they took David Pollock at Cincinnati,
Speaker 1: they took Erasmus James at Minnesota. Right, that man right
Speaker 1: there made me look pretty damn good. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: because he had an idea. That's what you talk about.
Speaker 1: And I want to get into that though. Do teams
Speaker 1: Do teams use the media though in the right way?
Speaker 1: Do you think? Do you think or does is it
Speaker 1: now where it's about being teams use the media in
Speaker 1: a wrong way where they try and and maybe take
Speaker 1: a Todd McShay this way, or take a Dane Brugler
Speaker 1: this way, or take a Brian Broadest this way. Do
Speaker 1: you think the media now it is it about using
Speaker 1: the media the right way? Or do you think they're
Speaker 1: used as detours? It goes both ways. And I think
Speaker 1: that's where you have to trust the evaluator and who's
Speaker 1: communicating the info, because out of all the information I hear,
Speaker 1: I probably talk publicly about ten percent of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just because I worry about you know, that doesn't really
Speaker 1: sound true, or you know, and whether and where you're
Speaker 1: getting the information from um, you know, agents and different teams.
Speaker 1: You know, I talked about how Trubisky is possible at three. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: i'll tell you what. I'm doing some research and you
Speaker 1: threw that out there very early. And that's a that's
Speaker 1: a that's a well, a nugget, and that's a nugget
Speaker 1: right from one place. And then I checked with a
Speaker 1: scout that I trust, and he said, that's what we're expecting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And okay, well I trust. I mean, that's a scout.
Speaker 1: That's what he's told me. The pass has panned out,
Speaker 1: so I have no I feel okay putting that out
Speaker 1: there now. It might not turn out to be right.
Speaker 1: But I the information that I know personally that I
Speaker 1: can speak of that I put out there. I only
Speaker 1: put out what I think is credible. I don't just
Speaker 1: throw whatever out there where I can't say the same
Speaker 1: for a lot of people in this, you know, in
Speaker 1: the draft business. Yeah, that's that's why they're called the
Speaker 1: mock drafts. Yeah. The people that are drafting are talking.
Speaker 1: You know, the people that are putting the mock drafts
Speaker 1: are telling you what they think. It's not what the
Speaker 1: teams are thinking. Yeah. Again, that's why they're called mock drafts.
Speaker 1: But you can, i mean follow along with draft Twitter
Speaker 1: and you can kind of parse that out between who
Speaker 1: is relaying credible information and the what do I want
Speaker 1: to say, the frequency with which you put that stuff out.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I'm trusting it way more from
Speaker 1: somebody who like every Maybe it doesn't happen all the time,
Speaker 1: but whenever you say it, it it pans out as opposed
Speaker 1: to people who are just throwing stuff left and right,
Speaker 1: which you see around this time of year. Right, you're
Speaker 1: gonna hit on one of those things, and so you know,
Speaker 1: you can remind people of how you hit on that
Speaker 1: one thing, but it's the all the things you got wrong.
Speaker 1: And really, this to me, this final week is probably
Speaker 1: the time I dislike the most about the draft process
Speaker 1: because there is so much misinformation out there, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that many people guard the information, you know,
Speaker 1: like like Rick, and you know, I mean, some people,
Speaker 1: like we said, just kind of throw whatever they hear
Speaker 1: out there, and a lot of it's just not credible
Speaker 1: and a lot of it's misinformation and what teams want
Speaker 1: out there, and so it's a it's a week that
Speaker 1: we're gonna hear a lot of noise, and you just
Speaker 1: have to kind of weed through the you know, you
Speaker 1: have to have your BS meter up. Yeah, understand what's
Speaker 1: what's credible and what's not. But that's this is smoke week.
Speaker 1: This is there's a lot of smoke out there. But
Speaker 1: this is what I was doing, the mocks and the
Speaker 1: boards and next I never read anybody. I avoided all
Speaker 1: mock drafts, avoid all top parts because what I knew
Speaker 1: what I had was credible. I didn't want to be
Speaker 1: swayed by something that was incredible, so I didn't look
Speaker 1: at it, Bucks Bomb or anybody else until after the
Speaker 1: draft see what they had going. Yeah, I think, to me, though,
Speaker 1: that that that's I think we're we're to me, the
Speaker 1: initial thoughts that people have about these players that we're
Speaker 1: hearing are the right ones. And then it's the closer
Speaker 1: we get to the draft, then it becomes harder and
Speaker 1: harder and harder to really believe what people are saying.
Speaker 1: I woke up this morning to reports that Josh Dobbs
Speaker 1: is going to be a round Picks, So just yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of it reminds it's like when your favorite
Speaker 1: band becomes really popular and like everybody in the world's
Speaker 1: talking about him, you know, like when you've known it
Speaker 1: all along, we were talking about this in December and January.
Speaker 1: Right now you just kind of got a deal with
Speaker 1: this five days of craziness. It's not I mean it's
Speaker 1: fun though. Well I think it mentioned it, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple months ago. But if there was one player
Speaker 1: in this draft, he would be compared to Dak Prescott,
Speaker 1: you know, the next Dak Prescott. I thought it'd be Dabbs,
Speaker 1: I thought, and I think that's your initial thought about him,
Speaker 1: the Tennessee quarterback, right, I mean I think he's I mean,
Speaker 1: you like love the physical skills, uh, you know, the intelligence.
Speaker 1: I mean you meet with him for five minutes and
Speaker 1: you love him. Yeah, he's a kid, that's the NASA guy,
Speaker 1: right right, I mean the aerospace aerodynamics. But when you
Speaker 1: talk about when you watch the film and accuracy, the
Speaker 1: decision making, it's all over the ball flight not good, right,
Speaker 1: And so it's I would have a tough time seeing
Speaker 1: him go in the in the first round, but I
Speaker 1: do think someone will, you know, take a chance roll
Speaker 1: the dice in the third which is still higher than
Speaker 1: I think and what do you think of the Colorado
Speaker 1: quarterback Cifo. Uh, he's gutsie see a lot of Kaepernick
Speaker 1: with you know, just the play style, kind of a slinger. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean he is, he's got a good enough arm. Uh.
Speaker 1: I don't know that he had the senior year that
Speaker 1: he needed to have. You know, people will forget that
Speaker 1: Davis Webb was almost at Colorado. Uh, you know they
Speaker 1: graduate transfer from Texas Tech, was close to going to Colorado,
Speaker 1: last second change goes to cal But it kind of
Speaker 1: tells you what they thought of their quarterback situation at Colorado.
Speaker 1: But Cifo had had the senior season he needed, he
Speaker 1: hasn't been able to stay healthy him. He's a tough
Speaker 1: son of a gun. I watched that Michigan game and
Speaker 1: he got he got about broke him in half, and
Speaker 1: he kept trying to play. To his credit and he's
Speaker 1: a big reason why Colorado had had such a great
Speaker 1: season this year after last decade in the basement. So uh,
Speaker 1: he's say Mike McIntyre's job. Yeah, he really did them
Speaker 1: in that those corners. He fits one of my favorite
Speaker 1: profiles when I was looking at quarterbacks. Give me a
Speaker 1: four year starter that through thirteen sixteen hundred passes. Those
Speaker 1: giant guys generally make it in this league. You know,
Speaker 1: some of them, you know, become Carson Palmer, some of
Speaker 1: them become good south backus. But if the guy's a
Speaker 1: four year starter in a Power five conference and he
Speaker 1: st the scene, everything in college game is thrown at him,
Speaker 1: he's generally gonna have a chance to be successful the
Speaker 1: next level. So then Trubisky then would not be on
Speaker 1: your radar one year guy. That concerns me. See that
Speaker 1: happened with Ryan Leaf, and I go all the way.
Speaker 1: I going back to Ryan Leaf had a tremendous senior
Speaker 1: season at Washington State in ninety eight, and so you're
Speaker 1: trying to compare him in Manning. And I remember because
Speaker 1: because Sean Payton at the time we were working with Philly.
Speaker 1: Sean was like Adam and like, no, not Manny, take Manning.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna take a guy, take Manning. The other
Speaker 1: guy is just a one year guy. And here's Sean.
Speaker 1: He's a young young coach at the time, and he
Speaker 1: was absolutely right. Well to that point, there's only been
Speaker 1: two quarterbacks strapped in the first round in the since
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy with only one year of starting experience at
Speaker 1: the college level. That's Cam Newton, who obviously had some
Speaker 1: juco experience, right, and then Mark Sanchez who at the
Speaker 1: one year at USC and came out and was at
Speaker 1: the top five pick. But it doesn't happen often. I mean,
Speaker 1: so there's something too that this is this. I talked
Speaker 1: to Seth Latruelle, the North Texas coach who was the
Speaker 1: offensive quarter North guy. He loved Trubisky, but they had
Speaker 1: a kid there who was setting the school records for
Speaker 1: touchdownd production market. Mark was more of an option type
Speaker 1: guy with legs and this guy they would have had
Speaker 1: changed to change the offense to go with Trubisky. But
Speaker 1: he absolutely loved Trubisky. But just the one years that's
Speaker 1: tough for me overcome. You find, like when you talk
Speaker 1: to people though, that gives some pause when you when
Speaker 1: you visit with you know, if you have a chance
Speaker 1: to visit with quarterback coaches or or offensive coordinators, does
Speaker 1: that get does that scare them or do they just nah?
Speaker 1: The talents there, the talents too too good to pass
Speaker 1: up here. I mean just kind of like I said,
Speaker 1: it's just a small sample size. Of first round quarterbacks
Speaker 1: that have had only one season of story. Yeah, you said,
Speaker 1: just two guys, right, So it's something we don't see
Speaker 1: a lot and so I think there are a lot
Speaker 1: of I think a lot of teams. They're obviously it's
Speaker 1: not ideal, No one thinks it's ideal. But how do
Speaker 1: you measure that? You know, how do you factor that
Speaker 1: into his value? About how early you'd you know, be
Speaker 1: willing to take him because you watch him and he
Speaker 1: doesn't have a fatal flaw in his traits, at least
Speaker 1: in my opinion. You know, he might not be elite
Speaker 1: and he doesn't have that huge ceiling, but I think
Speaker 1: he could be Andy Dalton plus, you know, with what
Speaker 1: he brings, but he doesn't have the resume that ideally
Speaker 1: you want a quarterback you're considering top ten like and
Speaker 1: like I said, I think he's going top ten. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's at three to Chicago, we see
Speaker 1: a trade up Jets at six, Buffalo at ten, whatever,
Speaker 1: But I do think Trubisky will be a top ten pick.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because I'm kind of I wonder in circles
Speaker 1: if coaches are more scared of Trubisky or more scared
Speaker 1: of the kid at tech. Yeah, with his with with
Speaker 1: you know, Mahomes, with things being all over the place
Speaker 1: technique wise, I mean, which one you got to gamble on?
Speaker 1: You gonna gamble on the one year guy or you're
Speaker 1: gonna gamble on the guy who's been a starter but man,
Speaker 1: his technique and you know year. Those two compared a
Speaker 1: lot because like Trubisky, but were first round guys one.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're right, And it's really interesting because you
Speaker 1: think of Trubisky as like a surefire top ten whereas
Speaker 1: Mahomes is like a twenty to thirty two. So I
Speaker 1: like I I don't think about them even in the
Speaker 1: same conversation that often. But it is interesting, and honestly
Speaker 1: I feel crazy saying this, but like I think I'd
Speaker 1: feel better about drafting Mahomes than Trubisky. I mean, well,
Speaker 1: you're going with a better upside, better upside and the
Speaker 1: less valuable pick because I don't have to take Mahomes
Speaker 1: in the top ten. Well, depends how you talk to
Speaker 1: the Mahomes talk is that's the rails, that's fair about
Speaker 1: what about the crazy quarterback Rick? What about the guy
Speaker 1: that has the technique that's all over the place. I
Speaker 1: mean that you you're really not sure what we mean.
Speaker 1: You see you see production, but you're like, man, can
Speaker 1: I can he can that translate into I mean, I
Speaker 1: think there's some things about Trubisky. You're right, he seems
Speaker 1: very polished in the way he plays, only played thirteen games.
Speaker 1: Mahomes is just Mahomes reminds me of far in the
Speaker 1: way the balls going him, or Cutler or any one
Speaker 1: of those guys. You want to say, is the crazy
Speaker 1: wing it around guys? You know? I mean, I just
Speaker 1: wonder what teams Unfortunately, when you draft the guy, you
Speaker 1: got to play the guy. Yeah. Carson Palmer was a
Speaker 1: four year starter through for fifteen hundred passes. Philip Rivers
Speaker 1: four year starter through for six yard pass Yeah. Both
Speaker 1: of those guys didn't play. They didn't start a game.
Speaker 1: They threw a fewer than ten passes in the rookie years.
Speaker 1: That's what you really need. But when you draft a
Speaker 1: guy in today's NFL, if you take your biscuit three,
Speaker 1: he's your opening day starter and you can't have to
Speaker 1: live with all the mistakes. And that the problem a
Speaker 1: guy with your biscuits, he hasn't seen everything in college
Speaker 1: game can throw at him? Right, watch less when you
Speaker 1: dial it up ten times to get with these NFL
Speaker 1: device coordinator. Let me ask you something in didn't he
Speaker 1: we're talking about quarterbacks, this is incredible, but the one position, Yeah, don't.
Speaker 1: But I think it's an interesting conversation. And I know
Speaker 1: we're got to get to Twitter on the twenty here
Speaker 1: a little bit, just but I want to finish this
Speaker 1: one then, would you? But you talk about everything the
Speaker 1: college game is thrown at him? How about Watson in?
Speaker 1: Because you look at the production, we all we all agree.
Speaker 1: I don't know about Rick. I know I know this
Speaker 1: would be me. If I'm watching I'm watching the Alabama game,
Speaker 1: I'm watching it, I'm watching him. I'm watching the two
Speaker 1: Alabama games. I'm watching Ohio State games. I'm watching those
Speaker 1: games with guys I think to play damn good defense
Speaker 1: that got first round talent playing defense across from him.
Speaker 1: If he's moving the ball on those cats. When you've
Speaker 1: got a guy like you know, when you have a
Speaker 1: guy like Nick Saban over there, we're twirling the defense.
Speaker 1: See to me, That's where I look at that and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: this guy has a chance to have success. If I
Speaker 1: was making the call for a team that like it's
Speaker 1: Watson and then everybody else is like significantly and I
Speaker 1: don't care about the mechanics or any of that. Like,
Speaker 1: he's a winner. He's got that Dak Prescott type of
Speaker 1: like magnetic leadership, personality, charisma, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1: He's done it against the best repeatedly. He took a
Speaker 1: program that had had trouble getting over the hump and
Speaker 1: put them on the mountaintop. Like, I'll take all of
Speaker 1: that over whatever he needs to work on in terms
Speaker 1: of like reading the field and stuff, that's where I
Speaker 1: would start. That's who I wouldn't want leading my team.
Speaker 1: Can't dispute the resume. I mean, he's he's a winner.
Speaker 1: There's nothing, there's nothing you can say about that. My
Speaker 1: biggest issue with Watson is Kenny consistently went from the
Speaker 1: pocket and in the NFL you have to do that,
Speaker 1: and I don't think we saw that enough or at
Speaker 1: least on a consistent level at Clemson. And look, I
Speaker 1: think Deshaun Watson at some point in the first round. Yes,
Speaker 1: I would draft him. I have him behind Traubisky and
Speaker 1: Kaiser for me personally, but I get everything you said
Speaker 1: is right. I mean, nothing you said was get my
Speaker 1: boy Watson up there to your team in Berea with
Speaker 1: the offensive line they just invested in. Pick him twelve,
Speaker 1: get him a running back like he'll be fine. Let
Speaker 1: me ask you the reason I'm glad we're having this
Speaker 1: quarterback conversation Cowboys. If the Cowboys are interested in trading back,
Speaker 1: we all agree that there has to be probably a
Speaker 1: there has to be a quarterback on the board that's
Speaker 1: somebody like it couldn't make sense. Yeah, is that the
Speaker 1: easiest route for the Cowboys to get a trade back situation? Right?
Speaker 1: Or a tackle? I thought offensive tackle too, I thought,
Speaker 1: but the quarterback would be the number one backs or
Speaker 1: went spur trades. Okay, the quarterbacks we talked about, Is
Speaker 1: there a chance that one of those guys is there
Speaker 1: at twenty eight to get somebody to drive up to
Speaker 1: take that Pickfterbacks are always over draft. Yeah, exactly surprised.
Speaker 1: I mean, so you're saying they're gonna have to probably
Speaker 1: sit if you don't see a quarterback going, I mean,
Speaker 1: you don't see a quarterback getting I think there'll be
Speaker 1: three quarterbacks and go. I think quarter quarterbacks are like that.
Speaker 1: Twenty eleven drafts. Jake Locker wasn't a first round pick.
Speaker 1: He was eight pick the draft. If he hadn't have
Speaker 1: a quarterback. You can't stop looking at See. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to figure out a way that Dallas can die, that
Speaker 1: they need to die. Who's picking before Dallas right now?
Speaker 1: Kansas sit at twenty seven exactly, and I think that's
Speaker 1: to me. Course, he's a wild card. He is, and
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of maybe a I think he's
Speaker 1: that Kansas city at twenty seven. It might be a
Speaker 1: floor for some of these quarterbacks. If my homes would
Speaker 1: reach that point, I think that would make some sense.
Speaker 1: Same thing with Watson. So I think there are three
Speaker 1: quarterbacks that will go ahead of pick twenty eight. I
Speaker 1: think I think Reid would say some uh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: And I think John Dorsey, he was with the Packers,
Speaker 1: he's no, no, you're right, rector of Scout. He's a nut.
Speaker 1: I got your you gotta worry about. I think the
Speaker 1: Giants are consideration twenty three and uh and I'm just
Speaker 1: in at twenty five. He's been parading quarterbacks. See, I
Speaker 1: was just again, I'm glad we had this conversation because now,
Speaker 1: I think the listeners have an idea. If you think three,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go, there's a possibility Dallas is going to
Speaker 1: be set to sit there at twenty eight. Nobody would
Speaker 1: have dreamed that Teddy Bridgewater would fall as far as
Speaker 1: he did. I don't. I mean most people, your best quarterback, Yeah, somebody,
Speaker 1: somebody will be there. Whether I would guess Kaiser or Mahomes,
Speaker 1: I bet you one of those two. If I like,
Speaker 1: I'm Kaiser drive that train, it's possible. I think he's
Speaker 1: more likely in a second. But just based on what
Speaker 1: we're hearing, I think that if I had to do
Speaker 1: my final MOK right now, I say Trabisky's top ten.
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm leaning towards Watson at thirteen Arizona. I
Speaker 1: think they really like him, and I think I think
Speaker 1: he's a teen's gay. Yeah, like I would feel better
Speaker 1: with Watson at fifteen that I would risk get three
Speaker 1: or yeah, yeah, And I think, okay, I like that,
Speaker 1: And I think we have Mahomes somewhere at twenty three
Speaker 1: at the Giant Giant there's that minefield when he's seven
Speaker 1: to Casey, I don't think he gets past that. So
Speaker 1: and then at twenty eight, you have to worry about. Okay,
Speaker 1: who's the next team that would want a quarterback? New
Speaker 1: Orleans at thirty two? Yeah, so could a team how
Speaker 1: about if Cleveland doesn't take win at twelve? Could Cleveland
Speaker 1: or San Francisco or See, That's what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get us a spot to dive, and
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think. I think it has to be
Speaker 1: a quarterback there. I would think that if four quarterbacks go,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a better group of defensive players sitting there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm the Cowboys. I want all those quarterbacks to go.
Speaker 1: I want four good players. Okay, you're taking the approach,
Speaker 1: you're gonna sit. You're not interested. I want I want
Speaker 1: the best defensive player. I got you, Pass Rusher, I
Speaker 1: got you. It's a fair point. All right, Good enough,
Speaker 1: Thank you guys. That conversation. We're gonna take a break.
Speaker 1: We come back. We're gonna get into a little Twitter.
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Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com rap. Back here at the Draft Show
Speaker 1: from the s WBC Mortgage Studios, Brian brought us Dame Burgler,
Speaker 1: David Hellman, Rick Goslin joining you joining us today to
Speaker 1: talk about the draft. The upcoming draft A week from today.
Speaker 1: A couple of things need to also get into ken
Speaker 1: if we can get a shot here as always, Dame
Speaker 1: Burglar has the Beast. You have about another week to
Speaker 1: get a copy of this. This is all you think,
Speaker 1: this is really this in our Star magazine are the
Speaker 1: only two things I think you really need going into
Speaker 1: this draft coverage that we're going to have for you
Speaker 1: next week the three days. So Dan kind of talk
Speaker 1: to folks without how they can get the Beast. It's
Speaker 1: check me out on Twitter at dp Brugler. I have
Speaker 1: a link pin at the top and it's an automatic
Speaker 1: PDF download. Some people, uh and a lot of people
Speaker 1: love printed out themselves and buying it and they have it, yeah,
Speaker 1: right in front of them as a resource on draft.
Speaker 1: And that's what you need to look at it as
Speaker 1: as a resource. So you know, even after the first
Speaker 1: second round, six seventh round, when you know you don't
Speaker 1: you know, you don't know these guys that are drafted,
Speaker 1: just turn to the page in the in the in
Speaker 1: the Beast. Hopefully it gives you everything you know absolutely
Speaker 1: in the name pronunciation, yeah, the whole, all the all
Speaker 1: the birthday president yea, all combine information to all the
Speaker 1: combine numbers right there, I can verify that this is
Speaker 1: also too. Uh, Dallas Cowboys dot comis is our star magazine. Uh,
Speaker 1: shop Cowboys, you can get this guy too. We can
Speaker 1: send it out to you. Uh. It's a great way again.
Speaker 1: Stories in there. Dane Burglar helped us with it with
Speaker 1: some comparisons. There's like one hundred and ten players of
Speaker 1: written reports and then there's also some player comparisons, some stories.
Speaker 1: Things you need to know. But if you have the
Speaker 1: Beast and then our Star magazine here, you will be
Speaker 1: completely ready to go. Okay, David, I always encourage folks.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite sections, our favorite things we do
Speaker 1: it is called Twitter on the Twitter and uh, we
Speaker 1: encourage everybody fire in their questions for the panel and
Speaker 1: we'll do our best answer. Question. Yeah, we got some
Speaker 1: good ones. Goose previewing this as smoke Week because that's
Speaker 1: the type of stuff that we're starting to heart. What
Speaker 1: I didn't Wow, I wouldn't even talk about that. But yes,
Speaker 1: thank you, Brian. Um, I'm not even gonna touch that. Alan, Alan,
Speaker 1: you get away with it. Alan wants to know what
Speaker 1: the likelihood is we're starting to hear these types of
Speaker 1: things what's the likelihood that Derek Barnett falls into the
Speaker 1: Cowboys range? Okay, I feel like you're starting to hear
Speaker 1: people that well Man, people don't love him as much
Speaker 1: as maybe you think maybe Charles Harris goes ahead of
Speaker 1: Derek Barnett. Well, I think that's possible. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: still don't think that he falls outside of the top twenty.
Speaker 1: I mean, what by range do you mean possible trade up?
Speaker 1: He actually Alan said twenty eight. I don't think that's doable,
Speaker 1: but maybe maybe twenty if he gets around twenty two,
Speaker 1: twenty three, twenty four. Yeah, I mean I don't think it.
Speaker 1: I don't think it'll happen. But the fact that Barnett
Speaker 1: has not worked out well, um, and I think that
Speaker 1: was expected. He's not expected to be a big tester,
Speaker 1: a great tester. But I mean thirty three sacks in
Speaker 1: the SEC and he broke record. Yeah, I mean the
Speaker 1: pass rush savvy that he brings. I just have a
Speaker 1: hard time believing he falls out of top twenty. Rick,
Speaker 1: what's your experience about these defensive ends. Yes, Russias don't
Speaker 1: slide exactly when the run starts. If if Thomas goes
Speaker 1: high and that run starts, they're gonna go quickly. There
Speaker 1: have been In two thousand and eleven there were thirteen
Speaker 1: front seven pass right type players that went yeah, and
Speaker 1: then one year and uh three, three, ten, thirteen, fifteen, sixteen,
Speaker 1: twenty six, twenty eight. I mean there could be seven
Speaker 1: pass rushers gone yeah before the Cowboys going o'clock, and
Speaker 1: then do you take the eighth pass rusher? He's take
Speaker 1: a third corner. Yeah, that's that's gonna be. That's that's
Speaker 1: how a cornerback winds up on this team at twenty eight. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what though, that maybe, like Rick was
Speaker 1: talking about, we've we've all mentioned what you know, t
Speaker 1: J Watt a bunch here, and maybe if the guy slides,
Speaker 1: we have to check on the health of Tack McKinley.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm kind of hearing some whispers that he
Speaker 1: might start on pup no guarantee or season. Yeah, no season.
Speaker 1: It no guarantee that he will even be for the
Speaker 1: training camp or be the first six games of the season.
Speaker 1: So are you gonna go ahead if if he slides,
Speaker 1: are you gonna go ahead and take that and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: we got him for the year. But he's only going
Speaker 1: to play ten games. And that's why I think we
Speaker 1: need to talk more about Tis Bowser. UHC Houston. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dane with the segue, smile on your face, love it.
Speaker 1: I just love natural transitions. Because we're getting here, We're
Speaker 1: getting into crunch time. Yeah, And Jacob wants to know
Speaker 1: who do you think the Cowboys value more on their board,
Speaker 1: Kevin King or Tias Bowser warnerback from Washington or Thias
Speaker 1: Bowser the defensive end from Houston. Good question. Um, pass
Speaker 1: rush is King, obviously, it's well you said King, not
Speaker 1: just get Ron King anyway, Yeah, aside from quarterback, is
Speaker 1: the most important position on your roster, and so I
Speaker 1: guess it depends on you know, how much do you
Speaker 1: love Bowser? Because I think we both agree Bowsers more
Speaker 1: of a second round guy. I think so. Um, but
Speaker 1: when you watch him at Houston US an outside linebacker
Speaker 1: in that three or fourth scheme, you know he was
Speaker 1: basically a Ferrari that they kept in the garage. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They did not let him get after the quarterback. They
Speaker 1: did not let him on a consistent, consistent basis he
Speaker 1: had dropped put him in the flat. I mean, just
Speaker 1: really kind of a disservice to him. But at sixty
Speaker 1: three two hundred forty seven pounds, it's a four to
Speaker 1: sixth athlete. It just don't make guys like that because
Speaker 1: that can move. I mean, there's a good chance bowsers
Speaker 1: off the board at that point. But if he's available
Speaker 1: at twenty eight, I don't know. What do you think,
Speaker 1: Kevin King? Who? Yeah, I would think that King. But Rick,
Speaker 1: let me ask you this question. You talked about those
Speaker 1: defensive ends in your history of the draft. You know,
Speaker 1: and you've watched this football team. You were there for
Speaker 1: all the games. Yeah, obvious problem here in the corner
Speaker 1: or star defensive end. You don't take a pass rusher there.
Speaker 1: You're not going to get anywhere near the quality at sixty.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pass rusher. You're going to get a good
Speaker 1: cornerback at sixty. But if you pass on a pass
Speaker 1: rusher at twenty eight, there may be another seven or
Speaker 1: eight that go before you go on a clock. And
Speaker 1: now you're talking in the back of the second round.
Speaker 1: We want the eighteenth best pass rushing his draft. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you can get a good quality of corner.
Speaker 1: You can probably get a good corner third round. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think to your point, my my board that we
Speaker 1: put on for one oh five three, I think we
Speaker 1: had seventeen right ends one rounds one through seven, and
Speaker 1: then had twenty six corners rounds one through So to
Speaker 1: your point, you know, you probably want to draft that
Speaker 1: defensive end first and then turn around and try and
Speaker 1: grab the corner second. I just don't like projects like
Speaker 1: and don't like projects of Bowser. Yeah, like he doesn't.
Speaker 1: He doesn't wow me. And I know you're picking at
Speaker 1: twenty eight, but he hasn't wow me as like a
Speaker 1: ready maid. I don't think he's not. He's he's a
Speaker 1: guy that you know, yeah right, yeah, and that's I don't.
Speaker 1: I love the idea of Kevin King just I think
Speaker 1: he's ready to go. I think he's ready to step
Speaker 1: right in there so real quick. On the Cowboys board,
Speaker 1: you think they would go, I lean pass rush. I do,
Speaker 1: and I think that that if coach Marin only lash
Speaker 1: about those fair that's a loud voice. That's a good
Speaker 1: nugget right to push the needle strongly pass rush. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think they would do pass rush. But I'd rather
Speaker 1: have the better corner than they Okay, better to be
Speaker 1: able to cover for six seconds. I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go opposite of you guys. I'm gonna go opposite.
Speaker 1: I think they would value King more than Bowser. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's just me. King will be a higher player in
Speaker 1: the board. Yeah, that's what I'm that's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1: If there's stack, if there's stack, I think that King
Speaker 1: will have a higher grade. But you're right, Mary Delly
Speaker 1: carries a big stick. Is it not window dressing your
Speaker 1: board to be like, well, we pass rush as King
Speaker 1: and we need it. So let's take this guy that
Speaker 1: he's not as good as Kevin King. I'll just say
Speaker 1: that and like, right now, ready made. This guy's as good.
Speaker 1: This guy is about that. He's about as following the
Speaker 1: board as you can right here. I know, I know
Speaker 1: my colleague here, as Rick pointed out, who you know,
Speaker 1: if if you really want an impact pass rusher, who
Speaker 1: are you gonna get in a second round and you
Speaker 1: have to you don't know that's fair. I like what
Speaker 1: you guys are saying. I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: take It's a crappy situation to put yourself in if
Speaker 1: you don't get that pass rusher at twenty eight. But
Speaker 1: are the pass rushers on this team good enough that
Speaker 1: a corner would help them? I guess that's where we
Speaker 1: have our opinions. But yeah, what they believe that this
Speaker 1: coaching staff, which way do they believe about the current
Speaker 1: personnel on the roster. Yeah, that's knowing your team. Don't
Speaker 1: make that mistake. We talked about that yesterday on on
Speaker 1: the Cowboys break. If you can't evaluate your own team,
Speaker 1: you might you can't draft and say it's the pass
Speaker 1: rush on this team is mediocre. But you're being kind.
Speaker 1: I mean they had thirty six. I think they finished
Speaker 1: one one sack ahead of the Giants. They finished thirteenth
Speaker 1: in the league. Um, just segway there for you. Well, actually, no,
Speaker 1: not really, because he's we're not talking about pass rush here,
Speaker 1: John says. Um, other than Lattimore, who I think most
Speaker 1: people would agree will be long gone, which corner would
Speaker 1: be the most likely for you to get at twenty eight?
Speaker 1: Because we can talk all day about Kevin King, I'm
Speaker 1: not convinced to leaven be there. No, I think he's
Speaker 1: I think after you get past Lattimore, there's two through
Speaker 1: ten you're guessing. I think there's gonna be a different
Speaker 1: order depending on what team you talk to, based on
Speaker 1: what scheme they want. Um, I think Marlon Humphrey will
Speaker 1: be high for some teams and lower for others. And
Speaker 1: so I could see him, you know, being there at
Speaker 1: about tankerusly that's another guy. Yeah, I think that's that's
Speaker 1: to me, that's too high. He's a guy a second
Speaker 1: round he no, no, I understand, but but but but
Speaker 1: I believe based on scheme, based on schemes, somebody, somebody
Speaker 1: who's a press man scheme could say we value tankerously
Speaker 1: more than we value Tabor. Question, you know where I
Speaker 1: would take Tabor? You know, tabs, tabors in play for me,
Speaker 1: Tabor is definitely in play. And I know the pre show,
Speaker 1: Rick and we were talking about you know, you even
Speaker 1: made up the point Hayward four six one, you know
Speaker 1: Pro Bowl corner. You know they had four six one
Speaker 1: speed coming out. I believe Vanderbilt, all right, yeah, Vanderbilt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but again he was a second round pick because of that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Abe will be a second round pick because of that.
Speaker 1: Malcolm Butler South or West Alabama. Yeah, he was a
Speaker 1: four six two yea Pro Day, Yeah, undrafted, So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's there are examples of corners that have run poorly.
Speaker 1: But again, one of the other reasons I kind of
Speaker 1: moved tabored down and why I think he'll be in
Speaker 1: the second round is the interview process. It did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're hurting him more on the interview process and the
Speaker 1: four six one speed combination of both. I mean it's
Speaker 1: I think that it's I think he was protected by
Speaker 1: that Florida scheme, protected by some of those other players
Speaker 1: on that defense. Um, and so I do have some
Speaker 1: questions about you know, because he thrives on and he's
Speaker 1: not a technique speed guy. He thrives on instincts and
Speaker 1: you know, it just kind of the feel of the game.
Speaker 1: And you can get burned in the NFL if you're
Speaker 1: a corner and that's what you rely on. So I
Speaker 1: like Tabor just uh, twenty eight. It is a little
Speaker 1: rich for me, but this team might disagree. The less
Speaker 1: you have of a pass rush, the more speed you
Speaker 1: needed corner. Right. Absolutely, here's a segue for you going
Speaker 1: back to the pass round show. This is something that
Speaker 1: we we've talked a lot about twenty eight, but this
Speaker 1: is not something we've talked about. Question from a real
Speaker 1: quick Tabor at sixty. I would be surprised, but I
Speaker 1: don't think it's it's not impossible. You don't think it's
Speaker 1: you think it's possible. I think it is possible, but
Speaker 1: I would be surprised. I mean, I think it's more
Speaker 1: likely he goes somewhere top fifty mid second round. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's okay. It's a long wait to sixty. That's that's
Speaker 1: the thing I keep coming back to. Three Turkey sandwich
Speaker 1: is right there. Fifteen guys that we love are going
Speaker 1: to come off the board, like between forty and sixty. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the second round is gonna be incredibly fun. Oh,
Speaker 1: I think I think it's going to be applied. Let
Speaker 1: me let me a really am question because I'm sorry
Speaker 1: it pertains to that. Okay, you're good, I promise you
Speaker 1: all right, you're in a friend of the show. Jonah, Hello, Jonah.
Speaker 1: More likely that they trade back from twenty eight or
Speaker 1: trade up from sixty, and we've seen them do that.
Speaker 1: We've talked about the DeMarcus Lawrence trade before. Maybe you
Speaker 1: don't get your pass rusher at twenty eight and so
Speaker 1: maybe you use draft cat to get up to forty
Speaker 1: four or something. And get a better pass. Yeah. It's
Speaker 1: just told me I need to sit there at sixty
Speaker 1: and maybe get a guy. Huh. You tell me. It
Speaker 1: depends on who's who's who's dropping, who's you might have
Speaker 1: your your radar radar. I think if you can find
Speaker 1: a way to move up, uh, you know, six seven
Speaker 1: spots and give up your fourth rounder, yeah, then that's
Speaker 1: something you consider. I mean you don't. I don't want
Speaker 1: to give up that third rounder. I think that's an
Speaker 1: NFL starter this year. Yeah, but if you can, they've
Speaker 1: done it before though, two right two is the third Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just for my personal opinion, I'm I'm not trading
Speaker 1: that third rounder. Uh. If I can move up you know,
Speaker 1: six seven, eight spots and give up a fourth for
Speaker 1: the right player, I should be considered. Would be reluctant
Speaker 1: to trade up this Yeah, I think you need there
Speaker 1: are too many needs if you're one player away. I
Speaker 1: think he looks strong at trading up with. This team
Speaker 1: has too many needs and that fourth rounder last year
Speaker 1: was Dak Prescott. If I can, if I can interest
Speaker 1: you whole look at that. If I can interest you
Speaker 1: and going back and getting a four. You guys in
Speaker 1: from twenty eight, like, yeah, back, going back, it will
Speaker 1: four entice you to go back. That's not enough. I'm
Speaker 1: trading out of the first round. I want to than
Speaker 1: a four. I want a third. Yeah, I think it'd
Speaker 1: been give you more than that. Yes, if you're moving back, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about it. If you're a small, I'm a small.
Speaker 1: I went I'm going to Cleveland. I told you I
Speaker 1: was going to Cleveland, and I'm not going to jail. Hey,
Speaker 1: Sashi Brown, you've got twelve freaking picks. Give me a
Speaker 1: third rounder. I don't care if it's fair or not
Speaker 1: that you guys are billing for a four. No, I'm
Speaker 1: not giving up the fifth year option for that. Let's
Speaker 1: look at Cleveland. Cleveland's got thirty three and fifty two
Speaker 1: and sixty five and sixty five. I want sixty five
Speaker 1: sixty five. I don't know if they give that up
Speaker 1: to move up. How many spots you're moving down trying
Speaker 1: to get I'm going down five spots, So go to Cleveland.
Speaker 1: Thirty three. What's after sixty five? Do you have that?
Speaker 1: They're picks? Yeah, one oh eight, No, give me sixty
Speaker 1: five if you want my first round. I don't think
Speaker 1: that that's the first pick in the third round. Maybe
Speaker 1: and maybe maybe they wouldn't. But if you, I mean,
Speaker 1: let's the first pick in the third round, got sixty five,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what pick he wants. He wants one
Speaker 1: oh eight? Is that the first pick in this and
Speaker 1: then start the second day or third day? Those first
Speaker 1: ten picks the second day? What about? Oh that's the
Speaker 1: third day? Yeah? About one to wait and get your five? Okay,
Speaker 1: you don't have a five, right, yeah, you need a five? Maybe?
Speaker 1: I mean it is it's the first pick, and so
Speaker 1: you're gonna take it's four and five and take is
Speaker 1: four to five. Yeah, you can you take one to
Speaker 1: eight and forty five one forty five if I can
Speaker 1: get one to weight, because I think you can turn
Speaker 1: around and trade one to weight, Yeah, and get a couple,
Speaker 1: get a couple of fours. That's when I play hardball
Speaker 1: and I say, yeah, I know you're overpaying, but we
Speaker 1: like you might not get How much fun is that
Speaker 1: to start the third day with a high pick. Yeah?
Speaker 1: That glorious. Y'all stack your board? What y'all are whimps
Speaker 1: like steam higher? No? No, I've just dream higher. I
Speaker 1: just want I just want a high pick to start
Speaker 1: the third day on a third day. Oh start. I
Speaker 1: love the third day. I used to get calls in
Speaker 1: New York from games. Give me the ten, give me
Speaker 1: the next ten players, give you the next ten players.
Speaker 1: That's and then you see trade going on. Oh you
Speaker 1: see me, because those guys are first day pick. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you what I've seen. Guys call and offer
Speaker 1: next year's two to get one of those early fourth
Speaker 1: round picks. Okay, but you know, I mean I'll give
Speaker 1: you next years too, And I've seen no. No, we'n
Speaker 1: stand here and pick a guy before we get too far?
Speaker 1: Is this a completely unreasonable expectation, though? I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: let's say they don't get their pass rusher at twenty eight,
Speaker 1: and then Carl Lawson it's you know, he's there at
Speaker 1: like forty he's there for some reason, he's there forty six.
Speaker 1: Or the guy Brandon Graham, your favorite player, Taco Charlton
Speaker 1: is sliding unexpectedly. I mean, you don't. Maybe they give up.
Speaker 1: That's justin tuck, you give you give up ninety two
Speaker 1: to go get a guy who can be either a
Speaker 1: starter or a serious contributor on your defensive line. I
Speaker 1: think they would do that. Would you give up a
Speaker 1: third round pick if I assured you that I could
Speaker 1: get Justin Tuck, if I could get a player similar
Speaker 1: to Justin Tuck, if you can't give me that insurance? Since, secondly,
Speaker 1: I think I have fun with me Rick. I think
Speaker 1: I think they need three starters in the first d rounds.
Speaker 1: I think they would prefer that, but I think they would.
Speaker 1: I think they could sell Jerry and say, we've covered
Speaker 1: our bases, We've signed these guys were not totally screwed
Speaker 1: at any position. Let's go, or they got more, let's go,
Speaker 1: let's go get our eight sack a year, right, ind
Speaker 1: who can help the Marcus Lawrence and and they'll I
Speaker 1: mean maybe you'll disagree, but they'll sell it to us
Speaker 1: as like we got two big time impact players that
Speaker 1: are two biggest positions of need. So what if we
Speaker 1: had to get rid of our third Like I can
Speaker 1: see that with crystal clarity. I'm not saying it will happen,
Speaker 1: but it wouldn't surprise me at all. Nothing would surprised
Speaker 1: me out of this draft room. Yeah wait a minute, now,
Speaker 1: but you remember last year that it's a fair point
Speaker 1: almost trading up for Paxton Lynch and that ended. Jerry
Speaker 1: hates as much as you love it and I love it,
Speaker 1: Jerry hates just standing there and right. Oh no, no, no,
Speaker 1: Jarry can't still do it. Trust me. I sat there
Speaker 1: with him when we didn't have a first round pick
Speaker 1: for two straight years. I thought he literally I didn't
Speaker 1: want to stand next to because I thought he was
Speaker 1: gonna grab somebody's throat and just start because we gave up.
Speaker 1: It was the we gave up the first year for
Speaker 1: the Joey Galloway trade. It was eighteenth overall. Then we
Speaker 1: did so great that it became the next pick was
Speaker 1: the seventh pick overall. And I really that's why we
Speaker 1: just want to Joey Galloway trade. We gave two ones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: back to back years. What yeah, that eat exactly. That's
Speaker 1: why I'm sitting here doing radio with you right now.
Speaker 1: What exactly? Charm? Oh me? Oh boy? But well, thank
Speaker 1: you very much. You get one more question? Yeah we can.
Speaker 1: I mean we're running up on time, but I mean
Speaker 1: I'm okay with one more question. Um, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get the fans question, all right. I also want to
Speaker 1: real quick when you look up a question. I want
Speaker 1: to encourage it. If you're out there, you want to call.
Speaker 1: You know, these guys don't bite eight eight eight eight
Speaker 1: five five two two ninety seven. I mean light Kent
Speaker 1: Garrison up. And you know, if you have a question
Speaker 1: for Dane, Rick, David myself, just feel free to call in.
Speaker 1: We'll try and finish the show out with some calls
Speaker 1: if we can't get them. But eight eight eight eight
Speaker 1: five five two two nine seven. It's on the screen
Speaker 1: right there, calls if you can. Just in the interest
Speaker 1: of playing the Devil's advocate it Nick's and we've talked
Speaker 1: about this before, but it's been a while. I think
Speaker 1: we've been zeroed in on defense for a long time.
Speaker 1: I feel like, but Nick wants to know three offensive
Speaker 1: players at twenty eight that you either wouldn't or couldn't
Speaker 1: pass on for one reason or another. And I know
Speaker 1: we both said we would pass on Joeku. This morning, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had a mail bag where, you know, somebody asked
Speaker 1: about it, Joku the tight end from Miami and would
Speaker 1: you pass on a tight end? Okay, we'll throw out
Speaker 1: a tight in there. Well, okay, thro throw out a
Speaker 1: wide receiver. Well, Corey did all the ankle is Corey
Speaker 1: Davis is another one. Ross is another one. Ross the
Speaker 1: wide receiver from Washington. Tell you it's talking to teams.
Speaker 1: He John Ross is a butt player. Oh he's awesome.
Speaker 1: But I like that player. He's so fast, he's gonna
Speaker 1: he's a dynamic weapon. But I mean he the injuries,
Speaker 1: the medicals, the fact that he's just undersized to begin with.
Speaker 1: That's something that he could go top ten. He can
Speaker 1: go nine to Cincinnati. I wouldn't be surprised. He could
Speaker 1: fall out of the first round and be surprised. He's
Speaker 1: also return guy, yeah, which which is an undervalued trait
Speaker 1: on the people. Do you want him taking those hits
Speaker 1: all set up in a minute, you know, extra hits
Speaker 1: in a first round pick. It's rocket ismail, Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1: I don't think they would use a first round pick
Speaker 1: in the return game. Like people bring that up about
Speaker 1: a Dory Jackson. See Dorry Jackson, that's the that's it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dorry Jackson, that's the that's the thing. Everybody talks about
Speaker 1: him at twenty eight. Would you do it with the
Speaker 1: Dorry Jackson? Would you pick him to be the third
Speaker 1: fourth corner and be your return gay. But going back
Speaker 1: to the original question with offense, I think Corey Davis
Speaker 1: in that ankle. It's kind of in limbo right now.
Speaker 1: We haven't seen him work out. Probably won't be able
Speaker 1: to work out. See hers slide a little bit too,
Speaker 1: don't they if the if somehow he's still available at
Speaker 1: twenty eight? Okay, go to the trainers, go to the
Speaker 1: medical staff. What's the bag? What's going on? Tell me
Speaker 1: is this a long term issue? Yeah, we're gonna be
Speaker 1: okay if they tell me it's okay. I'm not hesitating.
Speaker 1: You you turn in the car and you take Corey Davis. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you figure out me. You could talk me into Davis,
Speaker 1: Howard and Samuel I love Howard. I love him. I
Speaker 1: don't think the first round ten years from now. M.
Speaker 1: Greg Olson and Bill Polly silly thinks he's Jason Winton.
Speaker 1: Bill Poyd's a Hall of Fame GM. He's a very
Speaker 1: think high floor player. You know, he's you have your
Speaker 1: favorite idea, what you're getting, do me a favor. We
Speaker 1: hear about the high floor, high ceiling and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: Explain exactly what that is to like Finn Layman's terms
Speaker 1: with the folks out there. If if we say a
Speaker 1: player is a high floor guy, what does that mean?
Speaker 1: To me? It means, you know what you're getting where
Speaker 1: he is right now as a player. Uh, projects that
Speaker 1: that's kind of his floor, that's you know, what he's
Speaker 1: going to be at the next level. That's what he is.
Speaker 1: He is what he is right now. Not all high
Speaker 1: four players have high ceilings, you know. It's kind of
Speaker 1: that that we talk about. We throw around words like
Speaker 1: upside and potential. Not every prospect has that. Not every
Speaker 1: prospect gets markedly better at the pro level. Some guys
Speaker 1: are near their peak in terms of being finished products,
Speaker 1: and so being a high floor player is not necessarily
Speaker 1: a bad thing, right because you know you're already a
Speaker 1: darn good player. I think Jamal Adams LSUC, Yeah, there
Speaker 1: you go. I think he's a high floor player, right.
Speaker 1: I mean he's got a ceiling too though. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: does the ceiling. But I do think that you're more
Speaker 1: excited about his floor than you are about his ceiling. Yeah.
Speaker 1: To me, that it's still going to get him draft
Speaker 1: at top ten. So you know it's upside and potential. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, there's no forty yard dash that can measure that, right,
Speaker 1: it's something that it's feel, it's scouting, and that's where
Speaker 1: the scouts earned their money. Yeah, I love a high
Speaker 1: floor way more than a high like potential scares the
Speaker 1: crap out of me. You want a ready made guy, right,
Speaker 1: I want a ready made guy, especially at twenty eights
Speaker 1: risk reward. That's the name of the draft. Maybe, what
Speaker 1: would you say, Malik McDowell, Michigan State goes Spartans over there,
Speaker 1: Rick Goslin, Malik McDowell, tell us a little bit about
Speaker 1: Malik McDowell because as an alum of Michigan State, you know,
Speaker 1: you guys have had a hell of a run and
Speaker 1: then last year not so good. Thoughts on Malie McDowell though,
Speaker 1: he takes plays off. Yeah, and I think when when
Speaker 1: they were competing for national titles and balls, he was
Speaker 1: dominating player. But when that team went in the tank
Speaker 1: last year, So you worry about that, huh? He did too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there's no question about it. In the first round. Concerned,
Speaker 1: but he'll go in the first round. Yeah, he's a
Speaker 1: good looking guy. You watched him early in the season
Speaker 1: and Notre Dame and somebody's Indiana. Oh my gosh, he's
Speaker 1: a good time player. I would argue he's a top
Speaker 1: five talent in his class. He's that that high floor
Speaker 1: or is he is? He is what he is? Oh?
Speaker 1: I mean I don't the floor is what you don't know? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean because he could, you know, once he gets
Speaker 1: some NFL coaching and you know, who knows what he
Speaker 1: could end up. And he's only twenty years old. Sure,
Speaker 1: we have to remember we're talking about twenty year old
Speaker 1: A lot of mcdal doesn't turn twenty one till the summer,
Speaker 1: so he's still very young. Thomas both are twenty, right,
Speaker 1: who's that Thomas from Stanford? Sama Thomas? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: he is. Judicius Schuster doesn't turn twenty one until November. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's the youngest guy in the draft. Yeah, Curtis Samuel's
Speaker 1: only twenty rum So I think there's like eleven guys
Speaker 1: that are who twenty years old when they're drafted. Can
Speaker 1: McDowell play You're all important, right end, I think you
Speaker 1: play anywhere on that. I do think he could play anywhere.
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think about him? Was a
Speaker 1: pass rusher, He can be dominant, he can do whatever
Speaker 1: he wants. You play en tackle. If he wants to right,
Speaker 1: if he wants to six, I would I would like
Speaker 1: him if I got JJ Watt in my locker room. Yeah.
Speaker 1: If he's coming in and you're expecting him to be
Speaker 1: one of the leaders, if he can come in under
Speaker 1: a water one of the elite players, I think he'd
Speaker 1: be a much better player. But if he comes in
Speaker 1: as the star, then you've got problem. Let me ask
Speaker 1: you at twenty eight he's available, what do you think
Speaker 1: pass up? Maybe we're not talking enough about that, and
Speaker 1: I mean and he by the way, we've got it.
Speaker 1: By the way, we've got draft shows next week to
Speaker 1: Tuesday and Wednesday leading up to the draft, so we'll
Speaker 1: get into some more that stuff. He's a guy we'd
Speaker 1: need to talk about. Malik McDowell from Michigan State can't.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you. I know, we got just about
Speaker 1: three minutes. Is there anybody that called in and wants
Speaker 1: to visit me? Do have a caller? Lee in Atlanta? Lee?
Speaker 1: Go ahead, you're on the draft show. Hey guys, what
Speaker 1: are you doing? Good? Thanks? Three quick points? Matt, you
Speaker 1: stole my thunder on the leak. I'll tell you what
Speaker 1: if I'm going to give coach Rod an attitude issue.
Speaker 1: I'm not giving him Tabor. I'm giving him a leak
Speaker 1: because he would be up the leak, you know what,
Speaker 1: all day every day. So if he is there, please
Speaker 1: go get that guy. My question about that is, is
Speaker 1: Ben Mala, David Irving or Demontree more better than the
Speaker 1: sixth or seventh pass rusher and this draft? And then
Speaker 1: my other question is, I know Jordan Lewis is short,
Speaker 1: but if you watched Tabor play against Michigan in the
Speaker 1: Bowl game last year, he got torched. I'm sorry. The
Speaker 1: year before, he got absolutely destroyed. If you watched the tape,
Speaker 1: just watch Jordan Lewis on tape. He is going to
Speaker 1: make some coach, defensive secondary coach extremely extremely happy. Thanks guys,
Speaker 1: I'll head out. Thank you appreciate the call. Sounding like
Speaker 1: a man who lives in Michigan because he got a
Speaker 1: Michigan state question in there, and he's got a Michigan
Speaker 1: question in there too. Maybe so when he said he's
Speaker 1: from Atlanta, yeah, that's down there. They're doing good things.
Speaker 1: I was super high. Like the only reason that I'm
Speaker 1: not thinking about Jordan Lewis anymore is because of the
Speaker 1: DV stuff. That's scared me off, because I mean, he
Speaker 1: was great at the Senior Bowl. I thought he was
Speaker 1: really impressive. I liked him and just I'm a big
Speaker 1: Dan Lewis. You are a fan of his, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think he's short, but he has decent arm length and
Speaker 1: you want, yeah, his film's great. Is any of that
Speaker 1: cleared up? I mean, do we know what's going on
Speaker 1: that we've heard? Yeah, we need to dig on that
Speaker 1: a little bit further, something that teams will have to
Speaker 1: kind of do a little bit overtime to figure out
Speaker 1: what's going on. That's that's a non starter for me.
Speaker 1: These defensive ends he mentioned, you know, in these defensive
Speaker 1: ends better than say like uh say like Rivers, you know,
Speaker 1: I think from Youngstown or Basham from from Ohio. That's
Speaker 1: kind of the logic I've been using during this whole
Speaker 1: draft process is when you're talking about the back end
Speaker 1: of the round. I'm not I'm never trying to sell
Speaker 1: anybody that the guys here are all pros, but are
Speaker 1: is the guy you get at sixty gonna be better
Speaker 1: than the guys that are already here. If you were
Speaker 1: drafting in twelfth and you could get Derek Barnett, it
Speaker 1: would be a different story. But I wonder if the
Speaker 1: talent level here is, if not better than, at least
Speaker 1: just as good as whatever you're going to get at
Speaker 1: the back end of the round. But the draft is
Speaker 1: all but drafting hope. You're hoping, you're and that's I
Speaker 1: mean you drafted, you're giving your fans hope. You would
Speaker 1: be hoping that one of these guys can blossom into
Speaker 1: something much better, right. I think it's expectations, you know,
Speaker 1: for the rookie season, and then down the line. I
Speaker 1: think there's five rookies ever who have had double digit
Speaker 1: sacks in a season. Yeah, I mean it's it's not
Speaker 1: a very high number, it's you know, these guys are ya,
Speaker 1: it's one of the early ones. I remember the least
Speaker 1: favorite player ever, Joey Bosa. Yeah, and so at sixty
Speaker 1: I was wrong about Joey Bosa. I'm just gonnadmit that
Speaker 1: at sixty you're not going to get a player I
Speaker 1: don't think, in my opinion, that's going to instantly or
Speaker 1: quickly become the best pass rusher on your team. But
Speaker 1: at twenty eight, I think it's possible, depending on who's there.
Speaker 1: I mean, j you had JJ walt to this, to
Speaker 1: this roster, and I think that you know from jan
Speaker 1: what I'm sorry? Yeah, I'm like, whoa if you had
Speaker 1: t J wat to the roster. Uh, he might not
Speaker 1: be the guy from day one, but maybe midway through
Speaker 1: the season he might merge as your top pass rusher. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Tho's Big ten kids. You gotta like them. Oh sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: plenty of talent in that least. It's plenty of talent
Speaker 1: in the Big ten. Rick, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: joining us today. That's all we have time for the
Speaker 1: draft show today. Again, I want to thank Rick Goslin
Speaker 1: for coming in and spending some stories, giving us some philosophy.
Speaker 1: I always appreciate. He's one of my dear friends and
Speaker 1: I always uh used him as a great resource this
Speaker 1: time a year. He's one of the guys you can
Speaker 1: absolutely believe in his in his work. I want to
Speaker 1: also thank Dame Brugler At, David Hellman and Kent Garrison
Speaker 1: for the executive producing. Uh. We're gonna be on next
Speaker 1: Tuesday and Wednesday draft shows coming for nothing on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
Speaker 1: and then we've got three days of draft coverage Thursday, Friday,
Speaker 1: Saturday on Dallas Cowboys to every time, every pick, every
Speaker 1: so be along with us for that. Okay, for all
Speaker 1: my friends here, let's been a draft show. Take care of.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next week. M