Speaker 1: The Quest Love Show is a production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to the Quest Love Show. I'm
Speaker 2: your host Quest Love. You know in past episodes, I've
Speaker 2: been talking about a lot of metaphysical woulu talk.
Speaker 1: Pretty sure that.
Speaker 2: Unless you're very like Spain, a brand new to this show,
Speaker 2: you know that I've been working on this Earth Would
Speaker 2: and Fire documentary for the last almost two years. By
Speaker 2: this taping, it would have been on HBO earlier in June,
Speaker 2: and it's entitled Earth Woulden Fire to be Celestial versus
Speaker 2: That's the Weight of the World.
Speaker 1: Why such a long title, because you know me well.
Speaker 2: One of the most important subjects and voices in that
Speaker 2: particular documentary about Earth Wooden Fire is with us today.
Speaker 2: He's the Grammy Award winning inductee into the Rock and
Speaker 2: Roll Hall of Fame and the Songwriters Hall of Fame,
Speaker 2: and pretty much from the early seventies he was the drummer, percussionist,
Speaker 2: one of its vocalists songwriters. In addition, he's produced for
Speaker 2: other acts included Temptations, Howard Hewitt, Blue Magic, so many more.
Speaker 2: And he has done us the honor of making us
Speaker 2: a stop on his promotur for his brand new book
Speaker 2: entitled Life and Harmony with Earth Wood and Fire. And
Speaker 2: I had the privilege of putting the forward to this book.
Speaker 2: I suggest you all get it. A lot of tippets
Speaker 2: in there. What can I say? Man, I am talking
Speaker 2: to one and only my first drummer on the show.
Speaker 1: Get no, no, you got that? Wait?
Speaker 2: Since since the Quest Love Show, since this iteration of
Speaker 2: my podcast, I've had what like at least six bass players,
Speaker 2: A lot of bass players, not one drummer.
Speaker 1: See how I manifested. I thank you, I thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm honored.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna ask you, what was your first musical
Speaker 2: memory in life? Your first memory of music?
Speaker 1: Well, there's a couple. There's a couple, but the very
Speaker 1: first one is my father brought home an album entitled
Speaker 1: Benny Goodman Live at the Brussels World's Fair nineteen fifty eight. Okay,
Speaker 1: And on that I began to listen to this tune
Speaker 1: called Sing Sing Sing Sing Yeah. And the drummer at
Speaker 1: that time with Benny Goodman was Roy Burns. Okay. Roy
Speaker 1: would later on and I wouldn't meet him and tell
Speaker 1: him this story. I would meet Roy much later on
Speaker 1: at the Nam show because he started the Aquarius drum
Speaker 1: Head Company. Was him? That was him. I did not
Speaker 1: know this, yes, and so that was my first memory. Okay,
Speaker 1: going back to like vinyl. But then my first live
Speaker 1: event was myself.
Speaker 2: My buddy Arthur Copper, who I went to elementary school
Speaker 2: and we always played in bands, went to a James
Speaker 2: Brown concert and I can tell you the date was
Speaker 2: January first, nineteen sixty six, at the Los Angeles Sports Arena.
Speaker 1: You saw Prime James three drum sets on stage. I
Speaker 1: was messed up.
Speaker 2: What was that like for you? I was blown away?
Speaker 2: I said, first off, why would you need three drum sets?
Speaker 1: You know? But madam, it's just such a powerful presentation,
Speaker 1: you know, And so of course that I maintained my
Speaker 1: interest in James Brown from that point forward. You know,
Speaker 1: I never missed a concert. But those are my early
Speaker 1: music memories.
Speaker 2: So your second generation musician, Your parents were well, my mother.
Speaker 1: Was a vocalist, not professionally. My father was a lyricist,
Speaker 1: not professionally. So I suppose that's where I got my
Speaker 1: songwriting talent from. What was it about the drums that
Speaker 1: called you? Like? Why did you choose the drums? Or
Speaker 1: do you play other instruments. No, no, no, no, I
Speaker 1: don't play any other instruments. You know what, I don't
Speaker 1: know if any of us can say what it is
Speaker 1: about that particular instrument that pulls you in. It's just
Speaker 1: they noticed, my parents noticed that I would sit in
Speaker 1: front of the TV when various variety shows would come on,
Speaker 1: like say maybe Ed Sullivan, and I would just sit
Speaker 1: there and just get into this kind of thing. And
Speaker 1: so they finally got me some sticks, and I kept
Speaker 1: until that Christmas when we got that snare drum under
Speaker 1: the Christmas tree and I started a whole thing. But
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was, or answer your question,
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. It was just one
Speaker 1: of those things. Another musical memory the first time my
Speaker 1: father took me downtown to the Southern California Music Company
Speaker 1: and I walked in. First off, there was all these
Speaker 1: brass instruments, and back then manufacturers were using lacquer, and
Speaker 1: you could smell the lacker and when you walked into
Speaker 1: a music store.
Speaker 2: That lacker was all over the place. And I remember
Speaker 2: the stink. Remember that smell.
Speaker 1: So that's a that's a that's oh Man prime memory.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely were you born in southern California.
Speaker 1: Born and raised twenty eighth and Hobart. I'll go back
Speaker 1: to the regional fatburger. You wouldn't know about that. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about that later, Okay.
Speaker 2: Tell me all right, so tell me about life in
Speaker 2: south central back then.
Speaker 1: Let's define what you're calling south central, because some people
Speaker 1: would say, well, east of Main Street and then south
Speaker 1: of say Century would be south central. Okay. I came
Speaker 1: up on the west side. I came up on like
Speaker 1: ninetieth and eighth Avenue, and that's why I wound up
Speaker 1: going to high school in Inglewood. I graduated from Mount
Speaker 1: Berner Junior High School, which is now called Johnny Cochran
Speaker 1: Junior High School in sixty six, okay, and we moved
Speaker 1: to Inglewood ninetieth and eighth Avenue and the Forum was
Speaker 1: just being built. Okay. I remember seeing those concrete forums
Speaker 1: that go up the side of the building. They were
Speaker 1: laying out on the ground. I was like, man, what
Speaker 1: are they going to build here? Looked it was a form.
Speaker 1: And then one of my greatest moments ever was to
Speaker 1: get my parents into the forum. And we were selling
Speaker 1: it out five nights in the roll so wow. But
Speaker 1: grew up in LA and yes, was a fan of
Speaker 1: fat burgers.
Speaker 2: Yes, so again my you know, I was worn in
Speaker 2: the seventies, so of course, you know when we hear
Speaker 2: of South central Los Angeles and all of sudden you
Speaker 2: hear the civil unrest, year of gang activity.
Speaker 1: And whatnot, Like was it like that?
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you were a young teen in
Speaker 2: the sixties and the Wats riots.
Speaker 1: That's what changed everythinkly, I distinctly remember the Watch riots.
Speaker 1: Tell me about it. I mean, where we were, the
Speaker 1: rioting was not heavity. It was just sporadic, you know,
Speaker 1: breakouts here and there. It was very heavy going on
Speaker 1: in South central And the thing that blew my mind
Speaker 1: was one evening, summer evening, We're just sitting out on
Speaker 1: the front porch and an army tank came rolling down.
Speaker 2: Army tanks were not something you saw on the street.
Speaker 2: You saw them in movies.
Speaker 1: And it blew my mind. Sat man, it's a real
Speaker 1: army tank going down the street. And then at that time,
Speaker 1: my older brother, who retired from LAPD as a lieutenant,
Speaker 1: was in the police academy at that time, getting ready
Speaker 1: to go into the police force. But it was a
Speaker 1: crazy time man and then you know, hey, still today,
Speaker 1: we're trying to do the best we can out here.
Speaker 2: How did that personally affect you in the neighborhood after
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty five.
Speaker 1: Actually, it didn't really affect me. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: we were aware that there was some trouble out on
Speaker 1: the south end of the city. It didn't really affect me.
Speaker 1: You know, you had your head on a swivel of
Speaker 1: course everywhere you went. But did you go out much
Speaker 1: or were you more of a homebody or well, you
Speaker 1: know what, Actually, I've always been mostly a homebody. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm quite happy just when.
Speaker 2: Like when I come off the road, I'm quite happy
Speaker 2: just being at home, I see, you know, and just
Speaker 2: hanging out. Okay, So I know about the master's children,
Speaker 2: but like, how did you interact with bands back then?
Speaker 2: How important were bands back then in the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, bands in the neighborhood. That's a you know,
Speaker 1: that's another movie. Bands in the neighborhood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was very important coming up because that's how
Speaker 2: you got to, you know, learn about the other cats
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood who were playing maybe your same instrument,
Speaker 2: if not, you know, And that was the network that
Speaker 2: you developed early on that you would probably keep for
Speaker 2: the rest of your life, you know, And so you
Speaker 2: would bounce around from band to band, and I certainly
Speaker 2: did until I wound up with the Master's children at
Speaker 2: Maverick's Flat, which was a big club in the sixties
Speaker 2: on crenchat Boulevard and Baldwin Hills area. So back then,
Speaker 2: was it fairly typical that one out of three people
Speaker 2: knew how to play a musical instrument.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting stat one out of I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, I definitely know that the idea of a musician.
Speaker 2: I was told Nixon's budget cut in seventy three suddenly
Speaker 2: all those things were taken out of schools. So in
Speaker 2: your schooling, was it required that you learned how to
Speaker 2: play an instrument?
Speaker 1: It was not required, Okay, you could learn to play
Speaker 1: if you wish to learn to play. And so in
Speaker 1: my elementary school, in the fourth grade, I was already
Speaker 1: in an orchestra playing drums. Okay. Now today, try and
Speaker 1: find an orchestra in an elementary school. You can't. Where
Speaker 1: is it? You won't find it. So I was introduced
Speaker 1: very early on, and I took lessons very early on.
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I took my first drum
Speaker 1: lesson in April of nineteen fifty nine. I believe that's
Speaker 1: the date.
Speaker 2: Yes, those same books like Syncopation for the Modern Drummer
Speaker 2: and Stick.
Speaker 1: You know, I wasn't turned one of those books yet.
Speaker 1: I would discover those books with a much better teacher
Speaker 1: later on when I got to Grant's Music Center in
Speaker 1: La No. It started a snare drum method book by
Speaker 1: a drummer brother named Haskell Harr. You can still find
Speaker 1: his books. But anyway, that's how I started. And then
Speaker 1: you know, I just started playing around the neighborhood doing
Speaker 1: all that. And then finally I found this place called
Speaker 1: Grant's Music Center, and this is where all the cats
Speaker 1: were coming to study and network and get gigs and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Henry Grant owned it, and that's where
Speaker 1: I wound up with probably the greatest teacher ever for me,
Speaker 1: Clarence Johnston, who also taught Raymond Pounds, Ah Stevie's got Yeah,
Speaker 1: there you go, Raymond Pounds and Clayton Cameron. Oh really,
Speaker 1: we were the three that Clarence had that went out
Speaker 1: there and did something. It was because I saw Raymond
Speaker 1: playing with the Grants big band and swinging and he's
Speaker 1: sitting swinging, going.
Speaker 2: Higgy, get any bitch bach. I was like, whoa wait
Speaker 2: a minute. And I went to him and asked, I said, man,
Speaker 2: where are you getting this stuff? Man?
Speaker 1: It's Grants music? I said, okay, fine, and I went
Speaker 1: and signed up. And I spent man three or four
Speaker 1: years with Clarence Johnston. That's how you got your jazz shop. Oh, absolutely,
Speaker 1: because you gotta look Jim Chapin's Advanced Techniques for the
Speaker 1: Modern Drummer. Yes, you know you got to play in
Speaker 1: that book. Very familiar, Yes, very familiar with it, you know. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I'm a credit head liner. Note head Were.
Speaker 2: There any other notable musicians that will wind up being
Speaker 2: your peers years later that you ran into when you
Speaker 2: guys were young teenagers in the sixties. No, besides Raymond
Speaker 2: Towns and you know what. Not off the top of
Speaker 2: my head. Okay, of course that may. I mean, we
Speaker 2: may come back around to that. I mean, okay, So
Speaker 2: in starting a band, what's required, Like, how.
Speaker 1: Do you know which song sad? Like?
Speaker 2: I don't know if there's a fake book for James
Speaker 2: Brown or you get together with the guys for the
Speaker 2: first time. You just kind of sit around and you jam.
Speaker 2: You're just playing anything.
Speaker 1: It might be a funk jam, it could be a
Speaker 1: straight ahead jazz jam.
Speaker 2: It could be anything. And you see how that feels.
Speaker 2: And what you're looking for and what you're testing for
Speaker 2: is the chemistry amongst the musicians.
Speaker 1: How does this bass player feel? You're thinking this to yourself,
Speaker 1: but it feels pretty good. What is a guitar player? Okay?
Speaker 1: What is he? Okay? The keyboard is what is he doing?
Speaker 1: And you're checking all this out because as a drummer,
Speaker 1: you're hearing it all. You're sitting back there going okay.
Speaker 1: So you're looking for chemistry because that, in the end
Speaker 1: is going to be the bottom line, the chemistry amongst
Speaker 1: the players. That to me is what makes it's a
Speaker 1: given that all these guys can play, right. But see,
Speaker 1: all all great musicians can't play together. Oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: hate one great musicians are together.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's like all star gaming right right now, All great.
Speaker 1: Musicians cannot play together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you got to get that ego stuff out
Speaker 2: the way right, you know, gotch So what you're looking
Speaker 2: for is great musicianship, great attitude, great chemistry, because at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's going to be the
Speaker 2: chemistry that carries the band through if you can.
Speaker 1: Get through the rest of that stuff.
Speaker 2: In the mid sixties, when you're a teenager, is jazz
Speaker 2: the most likely destination you want to wind up with?
Speaker 2: Like I know that for a lot of the sixty
Speaker 2: musicians I talk to, they kind of look down on
Speaker 2: pop music, like Motown's just toy music or bubblegum music or.
Speaker 1: The Beatles or whatever. Well, because I came up listening
Speaker 1: to R and B and most of the R and
Speaker 1: B stations, although there was a twenty LA had the
Speaker 1: first ever twenty four hour jazz station KBCA one oh
Speaker 1: five point one, okay, he said, and his best. But
Speaker 1: I grew up listening to a lot of R and B.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't that I was growing up. I never
Speaker 1: had a thought of saying, well, professionally, I want to
Speaker 1: be a jazz musician. I knew I was going to
Speaker 1: be with an R and B.
Speaker 2: Type of situation because that's what I was listening to mostly.
Speaker 2: But I had a deep appreciation for the jazz side
Speaker 2: of things. So before your destiny was determined, who did
Speaker 2: you imagine at fifteen or sixteen, man, if I could
Speaker 2: play with blah blah blah, like who who are you
Speaker 2: aiming for? As a young drummer teenager, I thought that
Speaker 2: as a young drummer, being able to play with like
Speaker 2: Freddie Hubbard would have been interesting.
Speaker 1: Oh surviving Freddy, I thought. If you're familiar with.
Speaker 2: Man, I thought that before he had his strokes, I
Speaker 2: would have loved to have played with Keith Jarrett. Wow,
Speaker 2: because the trio configuration is my favorite configuration. I just
Speaker 2: give me drums, bass and piano and we'll create the stuff. Gotcha,
Speaker 2: there's enough there to create some stuff. Okay, you know
Speaker 2: it's all about your imagination. So yeah, those two for sure.
Speaker 2: One big band. Jiro Wilson's a big band, all right,
Speaker 2: So you definitely want it. Because Zero was local and
Speaker 2: I could go see him.
Speaker 1: So jazz was your That was a good destination point
Speaker 1: for you. Well, it was a good destination point, but
Speaker 1: it's not needless to say it's not where, not where
Speaker 1: I wound up and not necessarily where I was trying
Speaker 1: to aim.
Speaker 2: But also sort of I mean, you know, but I
Speaker 2: made sure I studied it. You guys had chops, you know,
Speaker 2: I studied it. Clarence made sure that Raymond and I
Speaker 2: and Clayton could play some straight ahead stuff.
Speaker 1: Got you?
Speaker 2: Okay, So tell me about the legendary Mavericks Flats. I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: I say this always over Mavericks Flats. That's the rural
Speaker 2: juror at Mavericks Flats. Actually it's Mavericks Flat. Mavericks Flat,
Speaker 2: Mavericks Flat.
Speaker 1: Okay. One. Where was it located? On forty two twenty
Speaker 1: five Crenshaw Boulevard, just south of Stoker on Crenshaw, Okay,
Speaker 1: on the west side of the street. Now, what period
Speaker 1: is your Mavericks Flat? That's sixty eight, sixty nine seventy.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm playing every weekend at the club.
Speaker 2: Okay, So can you just give me a typical run through?
Speaker 2: All right, let's say it's March of nineteen seventy.
Speaker 1: Uh is one?
Speaker 2: Is Mavericks Flat like the spot I want to go
Speaker 2: to if you're if you hit La, you want to
Speaker 2: hit Mavericks Flat. Yes, okay, it was one of It
Speaker 2: was probably the hottest black club.
Speaker 1: Going. And there were other clubs. There were other clubs
Speaker 1: on Crenshaw, but they just didn't have the attraction.
Speaker 2: Who would play there. Oh Man Parliament. Funkadelic would come
Speaker 2: through there. So if you're an established black act, you
Speaker 2: could come through this. How large is the oh? It
Speaker 2: would only hold about although John would make sure that
Speaker 2: Bad Boy was packed legally about two hundred people maybe okay,
Speaker 2: maybe not that I'm maybe over because there was an
Speaker 2: upstairs on the downstairs, but all the entertainment took place downstairs. Now,
Speaker 2: DJ culture wasn't a thing yet, right, so all music
Speaker 2: had to be provided either a jukebox.
Speaker 1: And a band. There was a juke box booth. He
Speaker 1: had his turntables, and he would play music throughout the club.
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, so even if bands weren't on stage, there
Speaker 2: was always always so absolutely yes, yes, okay, And I
Speaker 2: would assume that you would have to be good in
Speaker 2: order to get there. I'm only asking you this once
Speaker 2: because I believe weave in our interviews is I forgot
Speaker 2: who it was, but somebody mentioned that when the original
Speaker 2: pre classic Look, when I say Earth went in fire,
Speaker 2: I mean you guys. So the band that was Earth
Speaker 2: went in fire before you guys, right, the Warner Brothers band. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the Warner Brothers band. I heard that they were met
Speaker 2: with indifference because they were a little too free jazz
Speaker 2: and not enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think part of it was the look
Speaker 1: they had. Okay, so it wasn't you that night or no, no, no, okay,
Speaker 1: So what I'm going it's what I was hearing that
Speaker 1: I think was Bob Caballo, one of our managers at
Speaker 1: the time, Till Maurice like the idea, but you got
Speaker 1: to get some younger cats, got you, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: got to go with a whole nother look because these
Speaker 1: cats were in fezes and beers and it just it
Speaker 1: was just it's if you compare the two looks, you'll
Speaker 1: see what I was saying.
Speaker 2: Okay, when you're playing there, how many songs do you
Speaker 2: have to learn?
Speaker 1: Like? What's I want to know what the division of
Speaker 1: labor was in terms.
Speaker 2: Of like whose job was it to buy all the
Speaker 2: forty fives to learn the songs? Did you all just
Speaker 2: have to on your own? No, the forty fives were
Speaker 2: usually there because they were part of the playlist on
Speaker 2: the weekend, So somewhere in the DJ booth we could
Speaker 2: find the forty fives and do we had to do?
Speaker 2: And it's basically required for you to know whatever it
Speaker 2: was hidden.
Speaker 1: How it goes. Put on the record, listen to your part. Okay,
Speaker 1: doom jot goom job goom goom chat all right, I
Speaker 1: got that. You know, learn your part, base player, sit there,
Speaker 1: hear the notes. Okay, you just you learn. You know,
Speaker 1: that's how you did it. Put on the record and
Speaker 1: just learn your stuff, got you? Yeah, you just you
Speaker 1: learn your parts. You listen, you learn the part because
Speaker 1: there was no sheet music. Nobody was giving you sheet
Speaker 1: music with a forty five right, gotcha, So you just listen.
Speaker 1: What was your idea of quote unquote making it? Like,
Speaker 1: did you feel as though, ad say, musician, you could
Speaker 1: make a living just by playing in a band, playing
Speaker 1: in playing drums or I felt that was possible if
Speaker 1: you were with the right situation. And so if I
Speaker 1: could have a car and live in an apartment, then
Speaker 1: I felt like I was making it. Okay, that's that's
Speaker 1: where you begin to think you're making it. Oh dude,
Speaker 1: I told him now.
Speaker 2: In your car, Well that this is where I learned
Speaker 2: that I'm insatiable, because I got the crib in the
Speaker 2: car and I was like, well, wait, I want this,
Speaker 2: and then I got then I want And that's part
Speaker 2: two to that whole thing. After you get the basics
Speaker 2: in place, you go okay, yeah, what else?
Speaker 1: I like that Picasso? Right?
Speaker 2: You know exactly You're You're spot on by saying, how
Speaker 2: did you meet Maurice White?
Speaker 1: I met him at the first time we had our
Speaker 1: first rehearsal. You never met. My dad was aware of him.
Speaker 1: I'd seen him play on TV with Ramsey, but I
Speaker 1: had not met him. So it wasn't until our first
Speaker 1: rehearsal that I met him. Who recommended you to Maurice
Speaker 1: to well? This is this was part of the audition thing.
Speaker 1: My audition was with Michael Beal, the original guitar player,
Speaker 1: and Verdein White, the bass player, and we just sat
Speaker 1: around and jammed for about forty five minutes. And then
Speaker 1: after that was over, Verdin called Maurice and he said,
Speaker 1: rees said what did you think? And virgin said, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's the cat and we just went off from there.
Speaker 2: Do you know what number you were as far as
Speaker 2: the order of I know Vertein was asking how many
Speaker 2: drummers auditioned? Well, no, no, no, I just met in terms
Speaker 2: of like what's the pecking order of I know Verdein
Speaker 2: was first who came in sech like were you.
Speaker 1: I was like the first one to come in to
Speaker 1: the new band, okay, and then Philip and Larry, you know,
Speaker 1: then Al and Johnny and Andrew.
Speaker 2: So one by one each member came to yep. Okay,
Speaker 2: Philip came in after me.
Speaker 1: Got you.
Speaker 2: What did you hear about the first iteration of the
Speaker 2: band breaking up starting all over again?
Speaker 1: You know what?
Speaker 2: I never heard anything about them about how or why
Speaker 2: they broke up.
Speaker 1: Okay. I just knew that I was being called to
Speaker 1: be a part of this thing called Earth Winding Fire,
Speaker 1: and I knew they had done two albums previously on
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. So I had to assume at that point
Speaker 1: that something happened that caused that whole thing to go away,
Speaker 1: you know. So do you don't know what exactly transpired?
Speaker 1: I don't know how Maurice went to them and said, hey,
Speaker 1: guess what, surprise right, it's over, you know right? So
Speaker 1: what was it?
Speaker 2: Do you remember the very first day where the nine
Speaker 2: of you are together in a room about to play
Speaker 2: for the first time? Do I remember the very first
Speaker 2: There have been so many days. No, I can't say
Speaker 2: that I can remember the exact first day. You know,
Speaker 2: I can only tell you that anytime the nine of
Speaker 2: us got together and started playing, it was some pretty
Speaker 2: cool stuff. Really every time. Do you remember, like what
Speaker 2: you first played? Was it just a jamming face? Usually jamming?
Speaker 1: Okay, it's usually jamming, And probably Al McKay started with
Speaker 1: a lick okay, one of his famous licks, you know,
Speaker 1: and we would just jump in and start going.
Speaker 2: With the group that large. You know, oftentimes there are clicks.
Speaker 2: You know, we have it now. They're smokers, non smokers,
Speaker 2: the vegetarians hanging together, the non vegetarians, don't you know,
Speaker 2: those who drink go to the bar, those who don't.
Speaker 2: Harry Krishna's right exactly. So who were you clicking up
Speaker 2: with as far as those nine?
Speaker 1: Like? Who was your your buddy? Initially Al McKay, okay,
Speaker 1: so you were both from La. I mean I wasn't
Speaker 1: born and raised in Elle, but we came up and
Speaker 1: La together Oka, and our paths had already crossed, you know.
Speaker 1: So initially Alan, I hung tough on the road. Man.
Speaker 2: So before the record deal was like in place, because
Speaker 2: I know that you guys had to audition for Clyde
Speaker 2: Davis to get on Columbia. Yes, how did you guys eat?
Speaker 2: What were you doing for a job while seeing?
Speaker 1: Is this thing going to work? For real?
Speaker 2: And when you're joining, are you joining under the pretense of, like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm joining a future major band or configuration or do.
Speaker 1: You just think you know what? That's how I looked
Speaker 1: at it. I thought I was joining a major situation
Speaker 1: that was going to develop into something, you know. In
Speaker 1: the meantime though, I was just getting a gig here
Speaker 1: and there, just doing what I could to you know,
Speaker 1: make ends meet, gotcha. But I felt like it was
Speaker 1: a major move that was coming up okay by joining
Speaker 1: Earth Wind and Fire, And as it turns out, it
Speaker 1: turned out to be pretty cool.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of small tidbits for the sake of
Speaker 2: storytelling that I had to leave out of the dock.
Speaker 1: However, why did you leave them out? Why?
Speaker 2: Because, man, it's a better storytelling. But one of the
Speaker 2: most curious things that I could not figure out for
Speaker 2: the life of me is that your audition.
Speaker 1: Typically, when you're auditioning for.
Speaker 2: A label, you know, you get a space, a rehearsal space,
Speaker 2: a studio or something, and the guy comes to you,
Speaker 2: and in this case, you guys had the audition for
Speaker 2: Clive Davis by opening up for all people John Sebastian.
Speaker 1: Well, let me let me say, let's back up, okay,
Speaker 1: because I keep hearing you say we had to audition
Speaker 1: for Well, No, we didn't have to. It's just that
Speaker 1: that's the way it turned out. It wasn't. You're putting
Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, she had that. No.
Speaker 2: I always feel like everything you did was a do
Speaker 2: or die situation, at least for those first three years.
Speaker 1: But well, which is good. But we had already auditioned
Speaker 1: for Clive by the time we opened for John Sebastian. Oh, okay.
Speaker 1: We auditioned for Clive at Sunset Sound Studios in Hollywood, Okay,
Speaker 1: because that's the part that was killing me.
Speaker 2: And when he walked in with a couple of his guys,
Speaker 2: we played about three numbers.
Speaker 1: He got up and I was standing by the door.
Speaker 1: For some reason. He looked at me and said, I'll
Speaker 1: be in touch. I don't know what the next thing
Speaker 1: I knew man, we were signed to Columbia Records, gotcha.
Speaker 1: And let me just say about that whole thing. Earth
Speaker 1: Wind and Fire was the right band at the right time,
Speaker 1: with the right music. With the right record company, who
Speaker 1: had the right president. All of that was a musical
Speaker 1: perfect storm. Okay, that's what it was, man, and Clive
Speaker 1: was so much into it. All right, I'm glad you
Speaker 1: cleared that part up.
Speaker 2: Wish someone told me that for the film, only because
Speaker 2: I thought that you guys like Bob Cavallo told me
Speaker 2: that John Sebastian, whom if you guys are old enough
Speaker 2: to remember, Welcome Back Cotter, Love and Spoonful, well, Love
Speaker 2: and Spoonful, but also he sing the theme to Welcome
Speaker 2: Back Cotter and also a lot of times I'm in
Speaker 2: the city. Yes, right, Love and Spoonful was playing at
Speaker 2: the Lincoln Center, and I'm trying to imagine what his
Speaker 2: audience is thinking watching you guys as crazy as you
Speaker 2: are on stage.
Speaker 1: Like, certainly it was a departure from the John Sebastian genre.
Speaker 2: Right, And so my thing is like, that's a risk
Speaker 2: because you have to win that audience over so that
Speaker 2: the president. I mean, that's a good tester, like, but
Speaker 2: you know what, See, I don't know if Clive was
Speaker 2: sitting there going, oh, man, I hope they win the
Speaker 2: audience over. He Clive was in Okay, Clive was convinced, gotcha,
Speaker 2: so it didn't matter.
Speaker 1: We could have that night, okay, which we didn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, we could have bombed that night,
Speaker 2: but Clive would have been like, Okay, all right, let's
Speaker 2: get into the studio, cut the record, let's go.
Speaker 1: I see now.
Speaker 2: Because Maurice wasn't established drummer and percussionists, did you ever
Speaker 2: feel like you got more direction than your other bandmates?
Speaker 1: Like was he? No? No, not at all. Although Maurice
Speaker 1: and I had a lot of great conversations about drums
Speaker 1: and drummers, and I can tell you one of his
Speaker 1: favorite drummers was the drummer who played with organist Jack McDuff.
Speaker 2: His name was Joe Dukes. Okay, look him up. I
Speaker 2: will look him up, you know. And he's talking about
Speaker 2: Joe Dukes, man, Joe Dukes. But I mean we had
Speaker 2: a lot. He was talking about Tony Williams. He introduced
Speaker 2: him to Roy Haynes.
Speaker 1: Maurice gave me an album by Chick corea trio once again, right, yep,
Speaker 1: it's entitled Now he sings Now, He's sobs. Are you
Speaker 1: familiar with this? I'm familiar with it, but get it's
Speaker 1: a great trio album, and it's of course Chick on piano,
Speaker 1: Miroslav Vito's on base and Roy Haynes on drums.
Speaker 2: Okay, what is your top three come to Jesus moments
Speaker 2: as far as like records that like change your life
Speaker 2: in terms of your craft?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: Why I usually ask, if your house burns down, what
Speaker 2: three records are you saving?
Speaker 1: Oh? Not? You put it like that? Well, you know
Speaker 1: you got to take Marma Gaye's what's going on with you? Okay?
Speaker 2: If the house is burning down right after that, I
Speaker 2: think I'd have to grab earth wind and fires all
Speaker 2: in all. Well, you can't wait a minute, time out.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about you said what you said? Forget, I
Speaker 2: could take any three forget the house burning down?
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I'm just saying, let's start over.
Speaker 2: What yes, what three records would you say are just
Speaker 2: the most influential game as a.
Speaker 1: Drum Okay, influential as a drummer? Yes, okay, well you
Speaker 1: know what? Okay, you got to give me Miles Davis
Speaker 1: pork in best Okay, what is it about that album?
Speaker 1: I love the collaboration between him and Gil Evans. Yes, right,
Speaker 1: one of three, maybe four, because there's one you never
Speaker 1: hear about called Quiet Nights. Okay, you're right, Sketch porge
Speaker 1: in Best Miles Ahead, Miles Ahead. Yeah, and I was
Speaker 1: gonna say so. On the pork In Best album, there's
Speaker 1: a tune on there called Gone Gone Gone, yesub it
Speaker 1: up dun but uh good? Who is that playing drums?
Speaker 1: And he's one of my favorite drummers, Philly. Thank you
Speaker 1: very much, Philly Joe Jones. That what now you know?
Speaker 2: Philly Joe Jones has a solo book. This he has
Speaker 2: a solo book.
Speaker 1: See. That's one of the reasons I'm here today is
Speaker 1: to tell you about the Philly Joe Jones solo Okay,
Speaker 1: it's about this thick. It's three hundred and some odd pages,
Speaker 1: and it's every solo that Philly Joe ever recorded, transcribed
Speaker 1: with the sticking. So there's a fake book for Philly
Speaker 1: Joe Jones. I'm telling you I did not know this.
Speaker 1: And if you can buy, if you can find the
Speaker 1: spiral bind and get it, because then you can open
Speaker 1: it up and actually study a page. Otherwise, if it's
Speaker 1: a regular you know, pace binding, it won't stay open.
Speaker 1: But yeah, man, I found this online. I have given
Speaker 1: some out of his gifts. I said, you got to
Speaker 1: have this. Yeah, and it's not like you have to
Speaker 1: study a whole solo. Just take one line of any song. Okay,
Speaker 1: this you know, piece by piece? How do you eat
Speaker 1: an elephant piece of the time? Come on, come on,
Speaker 1: come on?
Speaker 2: You know always does he come with these sayings and
Speaker 2: idioms all the time.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm showing out now man, this school of me,
Speaker 1: but I want this to be memorable.
Speaker 2: Any conversation I have with you is memory. Okay, all right, okay.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: I went to high school with Christian McBride and Joey Decrisisco.
Speaker 2: So in order to Sir Christip them in order to
Speaker 2: get their respect, I had.
Speaker 1: To learn I had to learn this in order to
Speaker 1: get their respect.
Speaker 2: I love Christian McBride. Yes, man, he's got a trio.
Speaker 1: Yes, and from it there's a live recording hit he
Speaker 1: did in New York here. It might have been the
Speaker 1: Buildings of Vanguard, probably on there they have a version
Speaker 1: and I played on my show of Michael Jackson's Lady
Speaker 1: in My Life. Has you heard this? I know this?
Speaker 1: Come on, man, I know, come on, Chris is my man.
Speaker 1: Oh it's great, it's my man, all right, so I
Speaker 1: gave you Miles Dayavis, Miles Ahead. Yes, I'm going to
Speaker 1: go back to another Miles Davis album hit Me and
Speaker 1: the reason I'm going to go back to this Miles
Speaker 1: Davis album. I don't know if you knew this because it.
Speaker 2: Was the last acoustic album Miles recorded before he went
Speaker 2: electric with in a silent way, Nephertiti.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much?
Speaker 2: Yeah man, right, yeah, I will say that.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: One of my dreams was to hear the outtakes, okay,
Speaker 2: and I used to bug her about it. So what's
Speaker 2: notable about the title track of Nephertiti is that Miles
Speaker 2: and Wayne are playing the straight guys by not sowing
Speaker 2: repeating this line ad nausea all over again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, becausere are no chord changes. It just goes on.
Speaker 1: It just goes on. But what Ron and Tony Williams
Speaker 1: are just and neighbor's having some fun. He's having some fun.
Speaker 1: He's just letting them go.
Speaker 2: Absolutely part of my French ape shit, Amen, like him
Speaker 2: and Wayne are just playing it straight.
Speaker 1: And one I kept asking.
Speaker 2: Herb I was like, yo, like, I've never heard a
Speaker 2: jazz song in which the leads don't take solos, but
Speaker 2: the foundation are the ones.
Speaker 1: That are doing it.
Speaker 2: And he's like, you got to listen to the outtakes.
Speaker 2: And what's so weird is so they went through about
Speaker 2: four takes of it. Really on take number two there's
Speaker 2: a moment where Herbie and Miles and all the you know,
Speaker 2: tea was letting all the banner out on tape. He
Speaker 2: didn't stop the tape, and by take two they realized.
Speaker 1: Oh, wait a minute, wait are you going solo?
Speaker 2: And the way they laughed when they realized that nobody
Speaker 2: was taking the solo and doing on the line straight, it
Speaker 2: was like, not a joke, but it was so funny
Speaker 2: to them that they forgot to take solos. They was like, nah, man,
Speaker 2: just leave it, it's gonna be funny. And I was like,
Speaker 2: that was mind blowing to me.
Speaker 1: Interesting. The thing I love about Neffer TD is I've
Speaker 1: always thought that that melody was very haunting, ah, especially
Speaker 1: the fourth time it comes in the you know when
Speaker 1: they add the octave, you know, and they play behind
Speaker 1: each other right right right delayed.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, it's the chardal palette underneath that melody.
Speaker 1: That makes it so strange. Listen to just the chords.
Speaker 1: Forget about everything else. Just listen to what Herbie was playing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the one time when the right do the line
Speaker 2: and everybody just takes it over. Pray is a very
Speaker 2: haunting song. All right, So we need a.
Speaker 1: Third out and Fall.
Speaker 2: I will say that Fall is probably my favorite, the
Speaker 2: song that comes after Neffertit falls like one of my
Speaker 2: favorite Yes, ye.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's a great too. All right. So your
Speaker 1: third album, Okay.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's what we're gonna do. Just name the third album.
Speaker 2: Here's what here's what we're gonna do.
Speaker 1: Here's what we're gonna do on this third album. Stevie
Speaker 1: Wonders Music of my Mind.
Speaker 2: This is not the first time that's been mentioned on
Speaker 2: this show, really, because Stevie was starting to get into
Speaker 2: this whole synthesizer thing and he went way in on
Speaker 2: it on this album. I love when hearing people talk
Speaker 2: about this record on this show. All right, So the
Speaker 2: first time that you're hearing it, do you have any expectations?
Speaker 2: Are people hyping it up to you already, like you
Speaker 2: gotta hear this record?
Speaker 1: Or like how do you tell you? Okay, I got
Speaker 1: a great story about that record. The first time we
Speaker 1: played Washington, DC. Okay, we played the DC Army and
Speaker 1: nest in the Parliament. Funker Del's just tore us up.
Speaker 2: Another story, Oh, trust me, that's on the documentary story somewhere.
Speaker 1: It's there. Yes, But there was an after party, and
Speaker 1: so we went to this after party and the first
Speaker 1: time I heard that album was it's the opening tune. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, what is this? And that that
Speaker 1: started me into that record. Really yes, yes, and I
Speaker 1: came home I said, give me this this album right here,
Speaker 1: this one, you know. Okay, So what about those three choices?
Speaker 2: I totally see it, and I agree with you, I
Speaker 2: too love those three records.
Speaker 1: Did Marius ever discuss.
Speaker 2: The idea of Okay, now we jokingly say respectability politics,
Speaker 2: but then it was dignity, sophistication, black joy, excellence.
Speaker 1: Did he ever sort of explain to you guys.
Speaker 2: It's not like he ever sat down and laid out
Speaker 2: a blueprint.
Speaker 1: Okay. You know, we all knew that he wanted to
Speaker 1: do music with integrity, and he wanted to do music
Speaker 1: that would deliver a message, you know, as he says,
Speaker 1: render of service to humanity by way of the music.
Speaker 1: So it's no, it's not like he ever sat down
Speaker 1: and said, Okay, look here's the plan. ABCDEFG is what
Speaker 1: we're gonna do. Bang and we're out there. No, we
Speaker 1: just let him lead. Just let him lead, because he
Speaker 1: had it all up here anyway.
Speaker 2: So one of the most fascinating things that I've learned
Speaker 2: about you guys, especially in dissecting the story, was how
Speaker 2: challenging maybe the first two to three years was because
Speaker 2: a lot of us will tend to think that you
Speaker 2: guys literally just landed from the sky and these awesome
Speaker 2: bills within and outfits and were wrong.
Speaker 1: Love, they're wrong. They will learn this.
Speaker 2: But it's also important to see the best thing about
Speaker 2: this doc, I think is when you guys have a challenge,
Speaker 2: the way that you pivot. Now, one of the things
Speaker 2: I was shocked and learned about you know, because I
Speaker 2: thought that, oh, when you go on tour, it's like
Speaker 2: every tour where there's a luxury.
Speaker 1: Bus and bunks.
Speaker 2: And the thing that you shocked me with was that
Speaker 2: you guys were driving station. So can you for our
Speaker 2: well you just said it the station Wang of days.
Speaker 2: So tell me about typically, like, because that to me
Speaker 2: is like you go on stage, but are you your
Speaker 2: own roady as well.
Speaker 1: We are. I packed my drums many many a night.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding? So you're your own? Yes, we had
Speaker 1: two guys. Now, we didn't have two guys that would
Speaker 1: get the stuff out the truck and to begin to
Speaker 1: but we had no problems with setting up our stuff,
Speaker 1: okay at all. We were. This is why you played
Speaker 1: with the small kid. No, not necessarily, not because that
Speaker 1: was going to be easier to set up. It's just
Speaker 1: that's the kid I chose to play with because all
Speaker 1: the photos I've seen you three piece, four piece yeah yeah, okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but no, many and night. I set up my own
Speaker 1: stuff absolutely, And I had a great Ludwig drum story
Speaker 1: for you. Tell me because at the rehearsal the other day,
Speaker 1: I commented on your snare drum. Yeah, I said, man,
Speaker 1: it looks like a Ludwig super funic. And I want
Speaker 1: to tell you that when I was in junior high school,
Speaker 1: I carried with me all the time a Ludwig drum catalog.
Speaker 1: I was going to get a Ludwig drums and I did.
Speaker 1: I got me a beautiful silver sparkle silver superclassic. Fell
Speaker 1: in love with that drum, said man.
Speaker 2: I believed weren't you playing that on the Gratitude album?
Speaker 2: I believe you're playing with I think I had twin times.
Speaker 2: That wasn't the superclassic, that wasn't what I started with.
Speaker 2: But yeah, man, no, it's the best sounding time. Come on,
Speaker 2: come on, come on with drums man time. And I
Speaker 2: became a member because Ludwick was sponsoring this. There is
Speaker 2: an organization called the National Association of Rudimental Drummers.
Speaker 1: Nar in ARD and you had the audition to become
Speaker 1: a member. And I remember driving up to because I
Speaker 1: lived in Inglewood in the Hollywood to Professional Drum Shop
Speaker 1: on Vine, which was across the street from the Musicians Union.
Speaker 1: That's still there, I mean, well the one I pro
Speaker 1: drum Shop is still there. The Musicians Union is out
Speaker 1: in Burbank, Okay. And auditioning for the owner at that time,
Speaker 1: his stepsons now own it, Bob Jaeger. And if you
Speaker 1: ever get a chance, go on YouTube and look at
Speaker 1: the sixtieth anniversary of pro Drum Shop and look at
Speaker 1: the history of that shop. But I remember having to
Speaker 1: audition demonstrate I could play the rudiments, and so today
Speaker 1: I have this certificate in my studio on the wall
Speaker 1: says in Ard National Association, and the date is March
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, I believe.
Speaker 2: So even with a deal and established air quotes, you
Speaker 2: still had to go there to show that.
Speaker 1: You Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I got this. Okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: One thing I couldn't get into only because there's literally
Speaker 2: no history of well one relatives or anything. And Jessica's
Speaker 2: not here anymore because many people don't know. I mean,
Speaker 2: if they love keep your head to the sky, they
Speaker 2: know she exists. But I mean, how hard is it
Speaker 2: for Jessica to jel in with the rest of the guys,
Speaker 2: just in terms of the wear and tear, in the
Speaker 2: travel and what you have to go through to make it. Actually,
Speaker 2: Jessica fit right in. She would hang with us. She
Speaker 2: was like one of the cats, you know, got you.
Speaker 2: But I think eventually, man, you know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you can get a little distracted. You know, somebody
Speaker 1: might introduce something for someone and it can be a
Speaker 1: big distraction. Eventually, you know, rees said, hey, look we
Speaker 1: gotta part ways, gotcha, you know.
Speaker 2: But it's been on the record that substance abuse entered
Speaker 2: the picture the picture no doubt, So I mean, how
Speaker 2: hard is it to adjust to Reese's philosophy of clean
Speaker 2: living and spiritual living like on the road, like where
Speaker 2: you guys expected to follow his.
Speaker 1: Diet and all those things as well. Well. First off,
Speaker 1: let me say it wasn't like it was a mandate.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you know, all right, here's what we're doing,
Speaker 2: and you're going to do it right.
Speaker 1: No, that's not how it went down because Reese led
Speaker 1: by example. So instead of telling you what you should
Speaker 1: be eating, he might say, he may come up, I'm
Speaker 1: going up a Hollywood boulevard here to Johnny Wisemuller's Health
Speaker 1: food storm, pick up some vitamins. You'd go, oh, really,
Speaker 1: and what is that for? And you get into it.
Speaker 2: An eventually your mindset would begin to absorb this stuff.
Speaker 1: You would take it. It would become a part of you.
Speaker 2: Okay, So when I entered the game, I will say
Speaker 2: that was the first year of like ninety four, ninety five,
Speaker 2: really ninety six, but let's say ninety four.
Speaker 1: The commercialization of wellness.
Speaker 2: You know, you can go to Whole Foods, you can
Speaker 2: go to fresh Fields, like each town has that specialty
Speaker 2: store if you want to do healthy, clean living. But
Speaker 2: how are you maintaining that sort of clean living. If
Speaker 2: you have a show in Alabama or Mississipian, you know nothing.
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not.
Speaker 2: It's not shots fire to Alabama, but I've been to
Speaker 2: many a southern state where they kind of laugh at
Speaker 2: you because it's like, you know, plant pasca.
Speaker 1: Right right, right, right right.
Speaker 2: So when you're America, you're into that kind of lifestyle,
Speaker 2: it's going to be hard to make attain that because
Speaker 2: that's not a uniform lifestyle across the United States.
Speaker 1: Of America, you know, So you just have to pick
Speaker 1: and choose your spots. But today, but some nights you
Speaker 1: guys and just have a salad.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, you know, but I mean no, because we
Speaker 2: have excellent catering, so, I mean, you know, we try
Speaker 2: to keep it on the right level.
Speaker 1: I don't have any complaints about catering. Have you played, man,
Speaker 1: Look when you play the venue up in Toronto, they're
Speaker 1: catering up. There is off the chain. Oh dude. I
Speaker 1: could write a whole Zagga guide on when are you
Speaker 1: doing this?
Speaker 2: Because you need to get started well, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: just after this documentary thing is done, there's twolve more
Speaker 2: for me. When you guys are coming up and okay,
Speaker 2: so there's you know, well it already aired on HBO,
Speaker 2: so that people know and we talk about, uh, the
Speaker 2: p funk situation and you guys having to get your
Speaker 2: funk together to handle them. I always wanted to know,
Speaker 2: were you guys even aware of the song Let's take
Speaker 2: It to the Stage by Parliament Funkadelic, which I mean,
Speaker 2: you know it wasn't just you guys. They were playfully
Speaker 2: going after rufus. Yeah, yeah, I remember hearing, but what really?
Speaker 1: Okay, you didn't know? All right, people have their fun.
Speaker 1: There you go.
Speaker 2: There's another story I wanted to tell but couldn't. The
Speaker 2: War story. Do you remember this at all? War wanted
Speaker 2: to headline and you guys wanted to not be first.
Speaker 2: So there was like a group that opened and then
Speaker 2: you guys went on and absolutely murdered and destroyed, and
Speaker 2: then like half the house leaves after you guys are done,
Speaker 2: like kind of leaving War with an empty house at
Speaker 2: the end at its most before the bill within professionalism
Speaker 2: of Earth Wind and Fire, like what bands were in
Speaker 2: the scope of we had to blow them off the
Speaker 2: stage were just anyone could get it back then like
Speaker 2: anybody that was on stage with us was in trouble
Speaker 2: because we knew we were a hot band.
Speaker 1: We knew we could play if you were on stage
Speaker 1: with us, well what band? Secretly? I mean, look, we
Speaker 1: could be diplomatic now, you guys. We knew there was
Speaker 1: some payback coming with the Funkadelics.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, that was like, no matter what, we're going
Speaker 2: to get the Funkadelics.
Speaker 1: How did you feel about the Commodorees.
Speaker 2: Well, see the Commodorees cooling, the Gang Tower Power. You know,
Speaker 2: we were we were trying to get all of them, Okay.
Speaker 2: You know, so anytime we were on stage together, it
Speaker 2: was a thing, you know, but we would go out.
Speaker 1: You know, we're always very focused, okay, And that's one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why I still today. Before we go
Speaker 1: on stage, we gather in the circle and just kind
Speaker 1: of pulled the energy in because once we hit the stage,
Speaker 1: we're just in this thing and we're not going to
Speaker 1: stop until the last song. You know.
Speaker 2: The one photo of you guys that made an impression
Speaker 2: on me as a kid was the dust Sleeve of Gratitude,
Speaker 2: which is a bird's eye view of the California Jam
Speaker 2: of cal Jam A one hundred and fifty thousand.
Speaker 1: You know, the numbers keep changing on that. You know
Speaker 1: what else is interesting? My wife was there? You were
Speaker 1: at cal Jam? Wow? Did you guys meet then or
Speaker 1: in years much later?
Speaker 2: I watched that cal Jam performance and sort of tracking
Speaker 2: the band's adventures in terms of learning from past mistakes,
Speaker 2: I would say a lesser band would have probably gave
Speaker 2: into the fear. And this is after establishing the Philadelphia
Speaker 2: story with the Uptown Theater, which you know, the main
Speaker 2: word is Philadelphia. We are known to boot. We booed Beyonce,
Speaker 2: We boot Santa Claus.
Speaker 1: Like you didn't boot Santa Claus. We did? Oh no,
Speaker 1: there Philly. Philly has like.
Speaker 2: Moments, yes, players that retired throwing batteries at them because
Speaker 2: they still lost the game. Now we are of rude city,
Speaker 2: So you getting booed at the Uptown is just that's
Speaker 2: that's the way we say we love you. But you know,
Speaker 2: was there any fear whatsoever? Like right before cal Jam?
Speaker 2: Of like so cal Jam is a Woodstockian kind of yeah,
Speaker 2: But I want to say something about the fear thing.
Speaker 2: We never had any fear. I don't remember ever having
Speaker 2: any fear about going on that stage doing a show.
Speaker 1: It was like, Okay, counted off, let's go. That was
Speaker 1: our attitude, not the persons.
Speaker 2: Thinking like no, nope, nope, nobody you know what we
Speaker 2: tell you. We were like the Navy seals of R
Speaker 2: and B. Once we locked in and had the mission straight,
Speaker 2: it was over for whoever is on the other side.
Speaker 1: Okay, that was all right, I'm telling you. That was
Speaker 1: the attitude.
Speaker 2: You don't have to tell me twice you're in the
Speaker 2: early fire like. That was like, hey, man, okay, just
Speaker 2: Maurice counted off and here we go for an hour
Speaker 2: and a half. So there was never indifference or folded
Speaker 2: arms or no no, no long face that we were
Speaker 2: in the mission together.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: The Open Your Eyes album, what makes that notable for
Speaker 2: me is that you guys decided to shack up Caribou
Speaker 2: Wrench in Denver, Colorado in the wintertime where it's super cold,
Speaker 2: man man and isolated. So what was the decision to
Speaker 2: isolate yourselves outside of the comfort of the city and
Speaker 2: all those things to make this record?
Speaker 1: Well, that was it. To get away from the comforts
Speaker 1: of the city, to get away from any distractions of
Speaker 1: the city. Maurice just wanted to be along with the
Speaker 1: band in a creative space and just work on being creative,
Speaker 1: coming up with the best product. We could come up
Speaker 1: with the best songs free. That's the way the world.
Speaker 2: What would you say was the time spent on the road,
Speaker 2: Like as a road person, how many I don't mean
Speaker 2: how many gigs would you do a year?
Speaker 1: But just not being home? Were you one hundred day
Speaker 1: a year? It could be on the road eight months,
Speaker 1: not consecutively, Okay, it would be broken up and eight months,
Speaker 1: He's easy. How do you maintain home? Like?
Speaker 2: Is someone mowing the lawn? Is someone paying the electric bill?
Speaker 2: Is the first thing you do is move into an apartment?
Speaker 2: See you don't have that kind of overhead.
Speaker 1: Okay, no, sure it.
Speaker 2: Would be tough to maintain a home. But then, like
Speaker 2: I just said, man, if you live in an apartment,
Speaker 2: you have to worry about that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: And I didn't get married until seventy nine, gotcha, so
Speaker 1: at that point I already had my home.
Speaker 2: I just needed a beautiful lady to kind of hold
Speaker 2: everything together. God, so there were challenges, but you knew
Speaker 2: what you had to do, you know, so the home
Speaker 2: life could suffer maybe not, did you? As far as
Speaker 2: the recording of Open Our Eyes, which a lot of
Speaker 2: people feel that that's the beginning scene of you guys
Speaker 2: really finding your way.
Speaker 1: I'm interesting. I've always thought that that album was kind
Speaker 1: of a turning point musically, if you go back to
Speaker 1: the song selection, like, for instance, Spasmodic Moves, a bebop thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm inside too was always the fun part,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, right right right? So do you consider
Speaker 2: that the last of the old era, whereas that's the
Speaker 2: way the world's the beginning of a new I.
Speaker 1: Consider that album the beginning of a new musical journey. Now,
Speaker 1: is Charles Stepnie aboard this time? Or yes? Okay, so
Speaker 1: even if it's not getting passed.
Speaker 2: When we started working on Spirit, okay, as a matter
Speaker 2: of fact, we were about to cut the track.
Speaker 1: I was sitting on drums and the phone rang.
Speaker 2: We were in the studio about to record Spirit, the title,
Speaker 2: the actual title track.
Speaker 1: That's weird. I thought you guys wrote Spirit after Charles died. No,
Speaker 1: we were I was sitting we were getting record it.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the drums and Maurice got the phone call.
Speaker 1: He says, hey man, Charles just passed. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh man, So we went in and proceeded to record Spirit.
Speaker 2: Now what explain what Charles's role in the band was
Speaker 2: and how important he was and what he brought to
Speaker 2: the table.
Speaker 1: Well, Charles Stepney and Maurice went way back to Chicago,
Speaker 1: I mean, because he's recording with Charles all the time
Speaker 1: at Jesz Records. Charles Stepney was an incredible, incredible composer, arranger,
Speaker 1: and he was very instrumental in the beginning stages of
Speaker 1: Earth Winding Fire with the production, with the arrangements. If
Speaker 1: you go to our very first album on Columbia Last
Speaker 1: Days and Times, his arrangements, he was very instrumental in
Speaker 1: getting us on track.
Speaker 2: So and see the Light like he's doing all that,
Speaker 2: the crazy whirlwind of horns, it sounds like a tornado.
Speaker 1: That was yet Yeah, that was Chiles Stephanie. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: that's how broad he was with his arrangement skills. And
Speaker 1: if you ever get a chance, man, listen to Many
Speaker 1: Rippertson's first solo album, Yes, Come All Garden all the time.
Speaker 1: I listened to that. Okay, come to My Garden man,
Speaker 1: some great stuff on there.
Speaker 2: Okay, So probably the most notable thing about that's the
Speaker 2: way the world. To me, that's a sort of like
Speaker 2: a time capsule is that's also the beginning of deep snare,
Speaker 2: earth wind and fire. Now here's the thing like for
Speaker 2: me as far as my favorite all time song like
Speaker 2: Mighty Mighty is to me one of the greatest. Like
Speaker 2: I'm a crack snare guy, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like Paron Stephones like my my idol as far as
Speaker 2: because I love the sound of a crack snare. So
Speaker 2: Steve Roon's work where average White band was like to
Speaker 2: have a question about that.
Speaker 1: Are you one too? Because I've been one for years too,
Speaker 1: Because there's some cast that will play stick to the
Speaker 1: center of the head and that's a sound. But I
Speaker 1: came up playing rim and head at the same Oh
Speaker 1: rimenhead always.
Speaker 2: I always, my stick always goes to seven o'clock to
Speaker 2: eleven right my left side, I have zones where I
Speaker 2: hit I never hit that center. I've not played traditional
Speaker 2: in decades.
Speaker 1: It was Sonny Emery that got me started on match
Speaker 1: really yeah Sunny Way with the band really, So you
Speaker 1: always I was traditional. I was always traditional until Sonny
Speaker 1: came along. I said match script and I started experimenting
Speaker 1: with it, and so I go back and forth.
Speaker 2: It depends I will play traditional, because when I play traditional,
Speaker 2: I hit lighter because it's a different touch. It's totally
Speaker 2: different touch. But here's what I learned, though.
Speaker 1: I learned.
Speaker 2: That the lighter you hit in the studio, the boombastic
Speaker 2: loudness that you want, you have to play soft so
Speaker 2: that it doesn't destroy the mic that you're on. Like
Speaker 2: if I were using Sure fifty sevens, then I can
Speaker 2: just whack ahead right, yes, yes, the engineer is always like, dude,
Speaker 2: the more silent you play, the more I'll really engineer
Speaker 2: you to make you sound like King Kong. And then
Speaker 2: once I realized that, then I started playing lighter but
Speaker 2: for you though. Drum tone wise, look, I respect deep
Speaker 2: snare tones, but it was never my favorite, Like, how
Speaker 2: did you feel about machine of it all?
Speaker 1: My go to snare was always the Ludwick Superphonic four hundred. Okay,
Speaker 1: why is this?
Speaker 2: Because it was just it was just so easy to tune.
Speaker 2: I always loved the sound I got out of it.
Speaker 2: I just never had any complaints about it at all,
Speaker 2: you know, until I switched over.
Speaker 1: And now today I'm playing d w drums. Really, Oh,
Speaker 1: I have a beautiful tw set at home. You would
Speaker 1: absolutely love it.
Speaker 2: But live though, you would? You and Fred would crack
Speaker 2: it up. Yeah, yeah, crack it up. So wait, is
Speaker 2: it true that Fred came a boy because you had
Speaker 2: strap throat one night or something?
Speaker 1: Well? I did. There was a case where I came
Speaker 1: up but Fred was already in the band. I had
Speaker 1: to go home one.
Speaker 2: Time though, because I had strap throat. Okay, yeah, it
Speaker 2: was bad. Have you ever had a strap throat? No, dude,
Speaker 2: you don't want strap throat?
Speaker 1: How long were you out? For? About a week? Okay,
Speaker 1: about a week and then I came back, you know.
Speaker 1: But look, anytime you can't drink water without your throat burning,
Speaker 1: you know you got something. Ooh that's crazy. I definitely
Speaker 1: don't want that. Strap throat is no fun.
Speaker 2: But anyway, but for double drummer groups, I mean, there's
Speaker 2: the Doobie Brothers, this is the Alman Brothers. James Brown, Yeah,
Speaker 2: James Brown. You guys, how hard is it to adjust?
Speaker 1: See? Right?
Speaker 2: Like someone has to be forty nine, someone has to
Speaker 2: be fifty one. How do you decide who's the lead? Well,
Speaker 2: you know what, we didn't go through a long period.
Speaker 2: Freddie and I did not go through a long period
Speaker 2: of trying to get the eagles out the way.
Speaker 1: We just immediately understood what we had to do. It
Speaker 1: couldn't sound like two drummers. That had to sound like
Speaker 1: one drummer got you, even though it was two drummers.
Speaker 1: So we got all that stuff out the way and
Speaker 1: we just locked it in. We didn't go through a
Speaker 1: lot of changes about that.
Speaker 2: So ramping up earth when and fire to the point
Speaker 2: where now you guys are a stadium act, an arena act.
Speaker 2: Can you just talk about the sort of upgrading of
Speaker 2: it all, Like bringing in George Faison, bringing in Doug
Speaker 2: Henning and his assistant an unknown name, David Copperfield, like
Speaker 2: the idea of magic, Like are you guys having meetings
Speaker 2: and he's telling you, like, we have to do a
Speaker 2: different presentation that we've ever done before.
Speaker 1: Well, it wasn't like Maris called a meeting he said okay,
Speaker 1: look this is what we're getting ready to do. He
Speaker 1: would just do it, and he would he might say, okay,
Speaker 1: look we're going to get this magician Doug Henning or
Speaker 1: David Copperfield to come in and give us some extra
Speaker 1: stuff because he really was about presentation. And I like
Speaker 1: what George Faison says in the documentary says it was
Speaker 1: theater and that's what Maurice wanted. He wanted the music side,
Speaker 1: but he wanted some theatrics. He wanted more than just
Speaker 1: some guys stand on stage playing their axes, you know.
Speaker 1: And so that's how we got into the whole theatrics thing.
Speaker 1: I think Verdein said, you guys rehearsed for five months?
Speaker 1: Is that true? Like you had to rehearse for five
Speaker 1: months to make sure a little bit. Yeah, because there
Speaker 1: was a lot going on. We had a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff going on. So yeah, we had to make sure
Speaker 1: we had it down and Maurice wasn't gonna let it
Speaker 1: leave the city until we had it all the way down.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So how long would it take to lock.
Speaker 2: Just with music before you even start with Okay, now
Speaker 2: we have to lock with well that was again dancing
Speaker 2: that that could be about a month, just make sure
Speaker 2: the music is all the way down and making sure
Speaker 2: it's the right set list. So what George famously did
Speaker 2: was take you out of your comfort zone and brought
Speaker 2: you to the forefront. How was it adjusting to now
Speaker 2: being in the front line as opposed to being in
Speaker 2: the back line hiding one back of the band to
Speaker 2: bind your drums. So you're literally now without a shield
Speaker 2: or the shield of a mic stand. Like what was
Speaker 2: that adjustment?
Speaker 1: Like? Actually the and did you protest? No? No, I
Speaker 1: didn't protest. But let me also say I was quite
Speaker 1: comfortable sitting on the drums and was not expecting to
Speaker 1: be brought out front to do vocals. I never asked
Speaker 1: for that position. That's not something I wanted to do.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to stay in the back and play
Speaker 1: the drums.
Speaker 2: So was it so that Maurice and Philip weren't a duo?
Speaker 2: But now there would be like three people. There would
Speaker 2: be people flanking Maurice, myself and phil That was the
Speaker 2: idea to give it more symmetry. So you had Maurice,
Speaker 2: then you had phil and Ralph. But why not Verdeen
Speaker 2: who's very energetic? Because Verdeen did he dance or could
Speaker 2: he move well? The kind of choreography that George Faison
Speaker 2: was laying down, Vertein would not be able to do
Speaker 2: with the bass guitar in his hand.
Speaker 1: Okay, it just wouldn't be feasible.
Speaker 2: Okay, it also goes for the guitar players, although the
Speaker 2: guitar players dick quite well.
Speaker 1: Al Johnny Andrew was a great dancer, you know. So no,
Speaker 1: we just whatever George showed us. We just tried to
Speaker 1: work on it and get it down.
Speaker 2: How far did it feel for that first week though,
Speaker 2: to just or what did you discover in being in
Speaker 2: that front line, because it's not like you were demoted.
Speaker 1: You were actually promoted.
Speaker 2: I was promoted, but you were also without your shield,
Speaker 2: like I'm certain that you came to this world like
Speaker 2: I'm a drummer in the world's greatest group, but now
Speaker 2: I'm a singer in the world's greatest group.
Speaker 1: So it took some adjustment on the vocal side because
Speaker 1: I was not a vocalist. Dude, I was not prepared
Speaker 1: vocally to take that on that front, that outfront thing.
Speaker 2: So Maurice was cool enough because he was studying with
Speaker 2: the very famous vocal teacher in La Sethy Riggs.
Speaker 1: Okay, he said, Ralph.
Speaker 2: I'm a senior Seth Riggs's gonna take lessons from Seth.
Speaker 2: I'm taking care of it.
Speaker 1: Just go And that's how I got my vocal stuff. Together,
Speaker 1: so you have to do that move. Oh yeah, you
Speaker 1: know all of that. Yes, nice, And I still use those,
Speaker 1: by the way, I don't do them every night, but
Speaker 1: if I feel my voice is a little off, I'll
Speaker 1: go in there. Michael Jackson's entire forty one minute vocal
Speaker 1: coaching coaching thing with Seth Riggs is on YouTube and
Speaker 1: that's what we all. Yeah, like all forty one minutes
Speaker 1: of Michael and Seth Riggs and yeah, man's that's what
Speaker 1: I do it too. But I didn't have any fear
Speaker 1: about being out front. I had no fear. I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, well new surroundings. There we go.
Speaker 2: You know what was the best earth winding fire show ever?
Speaker 1: In your mind? Ah? Nothing beats this night.
Speaker 2: Well, I got to tell you. People still talk about
Speaker 2: the tubes the Tube Show. When the tubes would come down,
Speaker 2: it would be nine tubes, Yeah, and they would come down,
Speaker 2: they would light up, they would light up, they would
Speaker 2: light then they'd go dark, and when they lit up again,
Speaker 2: we were inside the tubes and then the tubes would
Speaker 2: raise up. We'd come off stage and the exploding pyramid with.
Speaker 1: The robots, all of that. Those that the Tube Show
Speaker 1: was probably the greatest great show.
Speaker 2: So the seventy seven all in all, ye, all of.
Speaker 1: That in there.
Speaker 2: Yes, what is the best city for Earth Winding Fire
Speaker 2: to perform?
Speaker 1: Like when you go there? Oh my god, I can't
Speaker 1: wait to go back.
Speaker 2: To get any cards and letters if I say the city?
Speaker 1: No, Okay, that's a that's a killer question because you
Speaker 1: don't have a favorite.
Speaker 2: But well, I'm I'm working on that right now, processing this, Okay.
Speaker 2: I gotta tell you I have a lot of great
Speaker 2: memories of Washington, d C. Well, yeah, chocolate that the
Speaker 2: Capital Center dates we did five nights in a row.
Speaker 2: Capital Center is no longer there. Ye. Look, man, anytime
Speaker 2: we play l A at the Hollywood Bowl, that's a thing.
Speaker 1: Anytime we can play Madison Square Garden or Jones Beach,
Speaker 1: it's a cool thing here in New York. Got it?
Speaker 1: And then you know what, give me Royal Albert Hall
Speaker 1: in London, Okay, and that we can.
Speaker 2: Those are some of my favorite places, okay for seventies
Speaker 2: or from the Fire? Is there such thing as a
Speaker 2: struggle city even in the route? Hee day, I hated
Speaker 2: playing Miami in Vegas because.
Speaker 1: They just why did you hate to play Miami? In Vegas.
Speaker 1: I mean beautiful places to go to.
Speaker 2: I mean Miami is a beautiful place to go to,
Speaker 2: but we could not penetrate that market for the life
Speaker 2: of me. Even to this day. We might do Miami
Speaker 2: like maybe every other year. You couldn't penetrate it from
Speaker 2: a live standpoint or what we could. But like again,
Speaker 2: like DC has always supported us mainland because there's a
Speaker 2: radio station that literally caters to the music that we
Speaker 2: do and it's still.
Speaker 1: There, Howard University radioh.
Speaker 2: Whu R right know it will so thus the audience
Speaker 2: supports us.
Speaker 1: We really never hit it.
Speaker 2: There's something about Miami and their club culture that just
Speaker 2: never resonated with our natural, organic soul thing, despite them
Speaker 2: having Henry Stone's you know label legacy of funk music.
Speaker 1: There's no city that comes to mind that we ever
Speaker 1: had to struggle in Okay, anytime we hit that stage,
Speaker 1: by the time the show was over, we got them.
Speaker 1: And that's just a fact, got you, you know, we
Speaker 1: never had to struggle. There's no audience that comes to
Speaker 1: mind that we had to work at trying to pull. No.
Speaker 1: We just because Maurice used to say, look, don't worry
Speaker 1: about the audience. Keep the energy up here on the stage,
Speaker 1: that'll come and it would okay.
Speaker 2: So you know, there's a part of the film in
Speaker 2: which you guys talk very frankly and honestly about the
Speaker 2: infamous nineteen eighty three meeting in which Maurice disbanded the
Speaker 2: group and all of you had to go your separate
Speaker 2: ways and without warning kind of make a way for yourself.
Speaker 2: But however, like a year into it, you already start
Speaker 2: your life as a producer.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about like how long it.
Speaker 2: Took you to find your footing and to figure out
Speaker 2: what your next moves were going to be? Now that
Speaker 2: earth would fire, you know, for now, wasn't existing like
Speaker 2: when it was presented to you. Was it presented like
Speaker 2: the band's over and no more? Or is it just
Speaker 2: like we're taking six months off and maybe I'll think
Speaker 2: about it next year. It was presented as we were
Speaker 2: taking a break and we didn't know if we were
Speaker 2: ever going to get back together again. Maurice was about
Speaker 2: to do a solo record for CBS, and Philip was
Speaker 2: doing his record samely with CBS. Yeah, Columbia with Phil Collins,
Speaker 2: and so you know, after we got the news Man,
Speaker 2: you had to really just because it was such a shock. See,
Speaker 2: it would be different, and I talk about this in
Speaker 2: the book.
Speaker 1: It would be it would be different if we had
Speaker 1: time to prepare for what was coming. Or Maurice had said, hey,
Speaker 1: guess what, Look a year from now, a year from now,
Speaker 1: six months, we're going to be doing a different thing. Okay, fine,
Speaker 1: but you just can't call a meeting, right meet me
Speaker 1: at the complex tomorrow, there's a meeting, and then get
Speaker 1: that kind of news man. So I had to figure
Speaker 1: some stuff out. What did you do for twenty four
Speaker 1: hours after that meeting? I just kind of sat around
Speaker 1: and went, Wow, maybe he'll change his mind.
Speaker 2: Or No, I didn't know. No, I didn't think there
Speaker 2: was no I didn't think he would change his mind.
Speaker 1: I knew.
Speaker 2: I knew that was the plan and that is what
Speaker 2: was going to take place.
Speaker 1: No. I just kind of sat there and said, Okay,
Speaker 1: I gotta how long did it take you before you realize,
Speaker 1: like this is real? And I got bills to and
Speaker 1: all right, it did well, it didn't take long at all.
Speaker 1: I mean I had, you know, a family coming and
Speaker 1: uh so no, I had to jump into gear.
Speaker 2: So not many people know that your RESPONSI will probably
Speaker 2: for like one of the I mean, yeah, I consider
Speaker 2: it sold to soul. Uh classic Temptations, But you pinned
Speaker 2: and produced treat Her Like a Lady. Well, I didn't
Speaker 2: write it, Okay, wrote it. I was the lead singer
Speaker 2: at that time, who Rest in Peace is no longer
Speaker 2: with us. But Al McKay I was over at his house.
Speaker 1: He was living in a Lost Fielis area, Okay, and
Speaker 1: he said, Hey, I always call me Sleepy Slick. Want
Speaker 1: to help me go in the studio and do the Temptation.
Speaker 1: I thought he was joking, okay, because we were both
Speaker 1: Motown addicts, so you know anything, Moti, we were into it.
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I'd love to, and sure enough, man,
Speaker 1: we went in the studio with the Temptations one of
Speaker 1: the best projects I've ever done in my life. It
Speaker 1: was called Truly for You, and from that album came
Speaker 1: the hit single treated Actually Like a Lady and many
Speaker 1: did that feel like? That was kind of surreal because
Speaker 1: while I was hearing Cheated Like a Lady on the radio,
Speaker 1: I was still working at this plumbing company, waiting to
Speaker 1: get it together, to get pulled out of this thing
Speaker 1: I was in, you know, so that was kind of interesting.
Speaker 1: And then at the same time I had a tune
Speaker 1: on Philip.
Speaker 2: Bailey's Chinese Wall album, which is the album that Phil
Speaker 2: Collins did. So I had these things, little things bubbling,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't gonna be enough to like really make
Speaker 2: a major difference at that moment. So I had to
Speaker 2: really figure some stuff out quickly and jump in and
Speaker 2: engage you. You also wrote let Me Talk on Faces.
Speaker 1: Yes I did, but I was hm, but I had
Speaker 1: a piece of it.
Speaker 2: How do you well, okay, so how does how can
Speaker 2: you elbow your way into the system? Like, as far
Speaker 2: as I'm concerned, Like Al McKay is the golden guy. Well, one,
Speaker 2: he has a guitarist, so if he does something melodic,
Speaker 2: it's very song and he would do that frequently.
Speaker 1: He would do that or something. Yeah, he would do that.
Speaker 1: He would wait for dude, look, I saw it happen
Speaker 1: too many times and so we here we are sound
Speaker 1: check and now I was just like, would be like,
Speaker 1: what's that? What's that? Would you get look up? It's
Speaker 1: a song? Got you.
Speaker 2: So that's how for me it was different because I
Speaker 2: had to because I didn't play melodic instrument my way
Speaker 2: in was going to be lyrically, so I would go
Speaker 2: to Maurice and I finally did on a tune called
Speaker 2: Welcome on the Heritage CD okay, and went to him.
Speaker 2: I said, man, look, let's write, man, let's do some writing.
Speaker 2: He said, okay, Man, I got this tune right here,
Speaker 2: and we work on Welcome okay. I only asked about
Speaker 2: let Me Talk because it's kind of weird that you
Speaker 2: don't often hear.
Speaker 1: About.
Speaker 2: Usually at the top of the decade, you might hear
Speaker 2: one or two references to, like for hip hop, like
Speaker 2: when the nineties were coming, they would say, oh, man,
Speaker 2: it's the nineties.
Speaker 1: Is nineties.
Speaker 2: And the thing that I'm noticing about the Faces record
Speaker 2: was and let Me talk. There were some wondering, you know,
Speaker 2: there was thoughts in the air of what will the
Speaker 2: eighties be, like, like will will this destroy? It's almost
Speaker 2: like you guys predicted what would happen to people in
Speaker 2: the eighties not knowing this, and you know, I saw
Speaker 2: it almost as almost as.
Speaker 1: A prophetic, fetic kind of thing. Yeah yeah, and wondered,
Speaker 1: how well it's not. It wasn't something that was intentional.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, when you write, you're not editing.
Speaker 1: When you write, you're just writing right, you know. And
Speaker 1: so that's the way that lyric turned out. And if
Speaker 1: it is or was somewhat prophetic, then that's the way
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be.
Speaker 2: Were you shocked that another client of yours, Bobby Glenn?
Speaker 2: Bobby Glenn, Were you shocked at how twenty years later,
Speaker 2: really thirty years later, on jay Z's the Blueprint album,
Speaker 2: that Yeah came back to life. Song Cry sounds like
Speaker 2: a love song, sounds like the intro of song Cry
Speaker 2: is Bobby Glenn's. Were you shocked at all that that
Speaker 2: had another lease on life?
Speaker 1: Man? Man, man, I got a phone call and I
Speaker 1: pick up the phone and the personally and goes, are
Speaker 1: you Ralph john says yeah, I'm Ralph Johnson.
Speaker 2: He said, well you've been sampled. He cut right to
Speaker 2: the chase, Hea, You've been sampled. I was like, oh, okay, cool.
Speaker 2: I'm like, so who sampled me? He said, jay Z?
Speaker 2: I thought he was dude, I was, I said, so
Speaker 2: what I said? I said, D jay Z? He said yes,
Speaker 2: D jay Z.
Speaker 1: I said, well, let me give you my my manager's
Speaker 1: number and take care of the biz. And man, after
Speaker 1: jay Z did it, Keisha Cole did the same sample.
Speaker 1: Frake did the same sample. The biggest most successful sample
Speaker 1: was Queen Nija with Big Sean Damn. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got an award from ASCAP for that and
Speaker 2: I was like, what nice?
Speaker 1: You know? And so that was quite a moment because
Speaker 1: that that.
Speaker 2: Tune continues to generate. Yeah, we still get phone calls.
Speaker 2: People are like, okay, we want to use that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: go right ahead.
Speaker 1: You know sometimes you can't call it. No, you can't
Speaker 1: call it. I never thought i'd be sample. Are you
Speaker 1: How did he find that? It was in a ben
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn? Yes, that's how. The label was some obscure label.
Speaker 1: It was called Koala Records.
Speaker 2: What yes, But even with I forgot about Shelton Kilby.
Speaker 1: When did you work with Shelton Kilby? What do you
Speaker 1: know about Sheldon Kilby? Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean look, you know what you know? Sheldon
Speaker 2: was a dentist. He was a dentist and he had
Speaker 2: a record. I think it was called BG Records. I think, okay, man,
Speaker 2: what how'd you even find out about him?
Speaker 1: Where'd you run across at? Do you know who I am? Well,
Speaker 1: now I do, dude.
Speaker 2: You trusted me to tell your story, this guy right
Speaker 2: here quest love.
Speaker 1: No man There's were there any other projects?
Speaker 2: Like how does Well? I always wanted to know how
Speaker 2: Verdin hooked up with Pockets. But when Klimba Records is forming, yes, like,
Speaker 2: are you guys giving a chance to say, hey, here's
Speaker 2: this songwriter.
Speaker 1: Well, if you had something you could bring Maurice that
Speaker 1: made sense, he would do it. At that time, I
Speaker 1: didn't have anything I could bring him that would make sense.
Speaker 1: So got it. That was that.
Speaker 2: But to answer your question about like not knowing when
Speaker 2: a song will bloom something unexpected surprises, I mean, you
Speaker 2: know you're living that in real life, in real time
Speaker 2: with September, Like with you guys and with Run DMC,
Speaker 2: I kind of laugh at how both groups have legacy
Speaker 2: songs like Shining Star is a legacy song, seventeen fires
Speaker 2: of the fantasy, Like we could name at least ten
Speaker 2: legacy songs. Same with Run DMC, Walk this Way it
Speaker 2: was important for history, Like there's like at least five
Speaker 2: to six historical songs. But when the smoke clears for
Speaker 2: Run DMC, probably when all said and done, it's Tricky
Speaker 2: might be there.
Speaker 1: It's Tricky's there.
Speaker 2: September, it's like no one called it, no one said
Speaker 2: this is going to be the song that will be
Speaker 2: known for right, because you don't know how weirded out
Speaker 2: were you that suddenly like September just got a whole
Speaker 2: new lease of life out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: I wasn't saying I wouldn't say I was weirded out. Look,
Speaker 1: all these songs are like your kids, y'or your children,
Speaker 1: and so if being the parent you are, if they're successful,
Speaker 1: you're happy. So Man, as it turns out, September Man
Speaker 1: is one of the most played, one of the most
Speaker 1: downloaded stream songs on the planet Earth.
Speaker 2: We're happy about that, and I'm sure the writers and
Speaker 2: publishers are happy.
Speaker 1: To shout out the ol.
Speaker 2: How cathartic was it to finally get to tell your
Speaker 2: story in your life and whatnot? Like how healing was it?
Speaker 2: Like what did you find out about yourself that you did?
Speaker 2: Because I think if if you're making history, you don't
Speaker 2: come outside yourself to look at it like you're just
Speaker 2: living it. And you know, what might be a life
Speaker 2: changing concert for me might just be a Thursday and
Speaker 2: Phoenix for you. See, So that gets into the question
Speaker 2: of why write the book, Why now why write the
Speaker 2: book then? And I always answer that question with a
Speaker 2: question why not?
Speaker 1: Now? See, it's one of those things that it happens
Speaker 1: in the spirit first gotcha, you wake up and go man,
Speaker 1: you know, I think maybe it's time for me to
Speaker 1: tell my story. And that's that's what happened. That's what
Speaker 1: happened with the book. I just woke up one day
Speaker 1: and said, you know what, I'm doing this. I want
Speaker 1: to leave this behind and I want to share my
Speaker 1: story and I hope that people find it interesting.
Speaker 2: What do you do outside of earthwood and fire that
Speaker 2: still gives you pleasure creatively? I know about your your
Speaker 2: foray into uh being a jazz DJ and on your
Speaker 2: radio station and whatnot, But what other things?
Speaker 1: What other creative mediums are you into? You? Well, I'm
Speaker 1: are you a good chef? Well? Now see, I wasn't
Speaker 1: going to go there. But on the creative side, I
Speaker 1: love to get in the kitchen a cook. Okay. I
Speaker 1: derive an extreme amount of pleasure from visiting art galleries
Speaker 1: because I collect art.
Speaker 2: Nice Okay, My wife and I have been collecting since
Speaker 2: seventy eight.
Speaker 1: Nice. Yeah, so we any notable pieces that you own?
Speaker 1: I just recently added to the collection a Salvador Dolli,
Speaker 1: which comes, Oh you're a serious art collector. Oh no,
Speaker 1: I've got I've got a couple of things you might
Speaker 1: find interesting. Interesting, but no, no, no, this, this Savado
Speaker 1: dollar piece comes has what we call provenance. And when
Speaker 1: you hear that term in the art world, yes, it
Speaker 1: means chain of ownership. You know where it's who owned
Speaker 1: it before you. And this Salvado dollar piece comes from
Speaker 1: the private collection of Pierre Argalais, who was Dolly's publisher
Speaker 1: starting in nineteen fifty nine for thirty years. So it
Speaker 1: does have provenance. It's a very important piece.
Speaker 2: I just started my art collecting game, like maybe for
Speaker 2: first of a sneakers and I got bored and well,
Speaker 2: really it was a record. It was always records, then
Speaker 2: it was sneakers, and now I just you know, it's
Speaker 2: like your pockets always burning. You gotta you gotta do something.
Speaker 2: So so what do you So you've started in the
Speaker 2: art game. Yeah, I'm starting on. I have some notable pieces,
Speaker 2: mostly though I'd like to collect work of fellow peers
Speaker 2: of mine. Yes, George Clinton has made me four amazing
Speaker 2: pieces of.
Speaker 1: Just afro futurist art.
Speaker 2: George paints, Oh my god, in a way that you
Speaker 2: wouldn't believe. Yes, George. Oh see, George's stuff is on
Speaker 2: and I've kept it quiet. Like when I do my
Speaker 2: art stuff, I don't brag because also aforementioned.
Speaker 1: Uh or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hove and and swizz right, Yes, that's they're collecting
Speaker 2: a whole another level, dude. Yeah, if they find a
Speaker 2: new artist, then the price goes up, everything on a
Speaker 2: whole other level.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So I that's that's the one thing I never brag
Speaker 2: about because where can I see George Clinton stuff does
Speaker 2: the online?
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's stuff is definitely online. But check him out. Man,
Speaker 1: I didn't know he painted during the pandemic.
Speaker 2: He started putting these pieces up and they're really really good,
Speaker 2: and I snagged about four of them. Well, my collection
Speaker 2: of art is very collected, and that it's not just
Speaker 2: graphics on the wall, it's art, pottery.
Speaker 1: M h.
Speaker 2: It's the books, yes, like the Chagall lithograph books you collected.
Speaker 1: Wow? Oh oh no, no see see look let me say,
Speaker 1: let me just say this, if you come to my
Speaker 1: crib next time you're in La Okay, I know you're
Speaker 1: a busy man, Yes, come by my crib and just collection. Nice.
Speaker 1: It's African sculpture too. It's a it's a whole thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's a whole thing. I'm telling you.
Speaker 2: Of any artifacts that you've collected, and you know I'm
Speaker 2: I'm a pop culture collector. I've collected lunchboxes, records, posters,
Speaker 2: old magazines like I have a smith Sony in inside
Speaker 2: my crib.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: What are the three things that you've that you've collected
Speaker 2: that like, really, I don't know if anything's stopping Salvador,
Speaker 2: but I'm just saying within the collection, yes, or because
Speaker 2: I have other things that I collect by that's what
Speaker 2: I meant.
Speaker 1: Because I collect knives. What is it about knives? Just
Speaker 1: the design? Okay from Japan. I collect folders, so they're
Speaker 1: not fixed blades, Okay, they're folders. The blade comes out.
Speaker 1: Collect knives.
Speaker 2: You're just reminding me right now. Wow, this is a
Speaker 2: hell of a way for this audience to find out.
Speaker 2: For Serik's fiftyeth my partner in the group Black Thought,
Speaker 2: for his fiftieth birthday, I went out and got him
Speaker 2: an illustrious like we're having to be in Japan and
Speaker 2: happened to go buy this I mean, I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's.
Speaker 1: It's it's the top level knife collection, and I forgot
Speaker 1: to give it time. No, I'm world famous for what
Speaker 1: kind of bullsh right?
Speaker 2: And no, I'm world famous for like collecting and buying things.
Speaker 2: And then I get home, you know when you get
Speaker 2: home on tour. So does he collect knives or swords
Speaker 2: or stuff? Is this what's he loves to cook? Like
Speaker 2: cooking is his thing?
Speaker 1: Oh? Really he cooks.
Speaker 2: People often laugh at me when I say he cooks
Speaker 2: better than he raps. That should tell you how good
Speaker 2: of a cookie is. Like he's I will put him
Speaker 2: against any Michelan chef, any grandmom. No, teris literally the
Speaker 2: best chef ever. And so all right, what have you
Speaker 2: had that he cooked that just knocked you out?
Speaker 1: You were like, man, I don't believe you did. This
Speaker 1: is crap?
Speaker 2: Are Like Terka's the person that will and I think
Speaker 2: it's again it's a cathartic act for him, Like Hill's
Speaker 2: two in the morning, He'll simmer his beef Wellington or
Speaker 2: whatever on a low thing and then come back four
Speaker 2: hours later and it's still He'll add the right red
Speaker 2: wine to the thing like he is the East top level,
Speaker 2: like that is that is his thing, but yeah, his
Speaker 2: his work with seafood is world famous. Well, you'll have
Speaker 2: to have some of my lasagna. Hey, I will gladly
Speaker 2: gladly particular. Look, I just want to tell you that
Speaker 2: probably of all the projects I've done with film, that
Speaker 2: this one well number one.
Speaker 1: This one's going to.
Speaker 2: Stick with me the most because of the method acting,
Speaker 2: kind of entry I had to do in the film.
Speaker 2: Like I felt like in order to tell this film,
Speaker 2: I had to become you guys.
Speaker 1: So I spent.
Speaker 2: Literally just seven months, like, oh, I've read every book.
Speaker 2: I was like, I went to Lebron and said, look,
Speaker 2: every book your father ever read, give me a list.
Speaker 2: I found out what you all did, like I needed
Speaker 2: to become a member of Earth Wind and Fire.
Speaker 1: Did you read any Napoleon Hill? Yeah? Oh absolutely.
Speaker 2: To this day, I meditate, I do affirmations, I all
Speaker 2: those things like this. This particular platform is tired of
Speaker 2: me talking about how much I've done that, But no,
Speaker 2: this actually saved my life, like I injured it really
Speaker 2: just like wanting to get to the master reels, like okay,
Speaker 2: now I got to do this project. I get to
Speaker 2: go to Sony and go through all the stems and
Speaker 2: hear the isolated drums and stuff. And I did, but
Speaker 2: really in order to understand you guys, because you know,
Speaker 2: you might be familiar with how particular a certain sect
Speaker 2: of black folk are when it comes to their spirituality.
Speaker 1: And if you're not really nailing Christianity.
Speaker 2: As fire and Brimstone as we knew it, then it's like,
Speaker 2: and I grew up in a kind of.
Speaker 1: Household.
Speaker 2: When it came to Earth, Wind and Fire album covers,
Speaker 2: where's that sign? I don't know that about that. I
Speaker 2: like the songs, but you know, the all known album
Speaker 2: cover has been debated by many ever and aunt.
Speaker 1: Man, look are you kidding? Right?
Speaker 2: And so one thing I wanted to do was just
Speaker 2: to spell cause again they were like that, don't look
Speaker 2: like that's Christian, Like that might be demonic, you know.
Speaker 2: And finally, understanding where you guys are coming from is
Speaker 2: probably the most life changing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, this actually did change my life.
Speaker 2: So I appreciate you one sharing your story to allowing
Speaker 2: me for the last two years to tell this story
Speaker 2: because really I want what I want people to take
Speaker 2: away from this is to dream in the most impossible
Speaker 2: time periods ever and we're in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: It can't get no more impossible than this.
Speaker 2: So this is the time where we plant seeds and
Speaker 2: establish what our future should be. And you're part of
Speaker 2: that story. And I thank you for coming on, man,
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. Man, Thank you, Man. I
Speaker 2: didn't know we were finished. I had some more to say.
Speaker 2: Oh I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
Speaker 1: John, Thank you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you coming, thank you, thank you for having
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you all right, thank you next time.
Speaker 1: Y'a'll see you. Yes.
Speaker 2: Quest Love Shows hosted by Me Mira Quest Loft Thompson.
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