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Speaker 1: The Quest Love Show is a production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to the Quest Love Show. I'm

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Speaker 2: your host Quest Love. You know in past episodes, I've

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Speaker 2: been talking about a lot of metaphysical woulu talk.

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Speaker 1: Pretty sure that.

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Speaker 2: Unless you're very like Spain, a brand new to this show,

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Speaker 2: you know that I've been working on this Earth Would

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Speaker 2: and Fire documentary for the last almost two years. By

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Speaker 2: this taping, it would have been on HBO earlier in June,

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Speaker 2: and it's entitled Earth Woulden Fire to be Celestial versus

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Speaker 2: That's the Weight of the World.

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Speaker 1: Why such a long title, because you know me well.

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Speaker 2: One of the most important subjects and voices in that

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Speaker 2: particular documentary about Earth Wooden Fire is with us today.

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Speaker 2: He's the Grammy Award winning inductee into the Rock and

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Speaker 2: Roll Hall of Fame and the Songwriters Hall of Fame,

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Speaker 2: and pretty much from the early seventies he was the drummer, percussionist,

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Speaker 2: one of its vocalists songwriters. In addition, he's produced for

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Speaker 2: other acts included Temptations, Howard Hewitt, Blue Magic, so many more.

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Speaker 2: And he has done us the honor of making us

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Speaker 2: a stop on his promotur for his brand new book

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Speaker 2: entitled Life and Harmony with Earth Wood and Fire. And

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Speaker 2: I had the privilege of putting the forward to this book.

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Speaker 2: I suggest you all get it. A lot of tippets

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Speaker 2: in there. What can I say? Man, I am talking

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Speaker 2: to one and only my first drummer on the show.

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Speaker 1: Get no, no, you got that? Wait?

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Speaker 2: Since since the Quest Love Show, since this iteration of

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Speaker 2: my podcast, I've had what like at least six bass players,

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Speaker 2: A lot of bass players, not one drummer.

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Speaker 1: See how I manifested. I thank you, I thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm honored.

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Speaker 2: So I'm gonna ask you, what was your first musical

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Speaker 2: memory in life? Your first memory of music?

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Speaker 1: Well, there's a couple. There's a couple, but the very

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Speaker 1: first one is my father brought home an album entitled

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Speaker 1: Benny Goodman Live at the Brussels World's Fair nineteen fifty eight. Okay,

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Speaker 1: And on that I began to listen to this tune

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Speaker 1: called Sing Sing Sing Sing Yeah. And the drummer at

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Speaker 1: that time with Benny Goodman was Roy Burns. Okay. Roy

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Speaker 1: would later on and I wouldn't meet him and tell

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Speaker 1: him this story. I would meet Roy much later on

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Speaker 1: at the Nam show because he started the Aquarius drum

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Speaker 1: Head Company. Was him? That was him. I did not

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Speaker 1: know this, yes, and so that was my first memory. Okay,

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Speaker 1: going back to like vinyl. But then my first live

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Speaker 1: event was myself.

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Speaker 2: My buddy Arthur Copper, who I went to elementary school

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Speaker 2: and we always played in bands, went to a James

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Speaker 2: Brown concert and I can tell you the date was

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Speaker 2: January first, nineteen sixty six, at the Los Angeles Sports Arena.

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Speaker 1: You saw Prime James three drum sets on stage. I

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Speaker 1: was messed up.

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Speaker 2: What was that like for you? I was blown away?

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Speaker 2: I said, first off, why would you need three drum sets?

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Speaker 1: You know? But madam, it's just such a powerful presentation,

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Speaker 1: you know, And so of course that I maintained my

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Speaker 1: interest in James Brown from that point forward. You know,

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Speaker 1: I never missed a concert. But those are my early

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Speaker 1: music memories.

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Speaker 2: So your second generation musician, Your parents were well, my mother.

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Speaker 1: Was a vocalist, not professionally. My father was a lyricist,

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Speaker 1: not professionally. So I suppose that's where I got my

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Speaker 1: songwriting talent from. What was it about the drums that

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Speaker 1: called you? Like? Why did you choose the drums? Or

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Speaker 1: do you play other instruments. No, no, no, no, I

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Speaker 1: don't play any other instruments. You know what, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if any of us can say what it is

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Speaker 1: about that particular instrument that pulls you in. It's just

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Speaker 1: they noticed, my parents noticed that I would sit in

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Speaker 1: front of the TV when various variety shows would come on,

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Speaker 1: like say maybe Ed Sullivan, and I would just sit

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Speaker 1: there and just get into this kind of thing. And

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Speaker 1: so they finally got me some sticks, and I kept

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Speaker 1: until that Christmas when we got that snare drum under

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Speaker 1: the Christmas tree and I started a whole thing. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it was, or answer your question,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. It was just one

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Speaker 1: of those things. Another musical memory the first time my

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Speaker 1: father took me downtown to the Southern California Music Company

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Speaker 1: and I walked in. First off, there was all these

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Speaker 1: brass instruments, and back then manufacturers were using lacquer, and

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Speaker 1: you could smell the lacker and when you walked into

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Speaker 1: a music store.

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Speaker 2: That lacker was all over the place. And I remember

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Speaker 2: the stink. Remember that smell.

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Speaker 1: So that's a that's a that's oh Man prime memory.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely were you born in southern California.

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Speaker 1: Born and raised twenty eighth and Hobart. I'll go back

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Speaker 1: to the regional fatburger. You wouldn't know about that. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that later, Okay.

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Speaker 2: Tell me all right, so tell me about life in

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Speaker 2: south central back then.

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Speaker 1: Let's define what you're calling south central, because some people

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Speaker 1: would say, well, east of Main Street and then south

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Speaker 1: of say Century would be south central. Okay. I came

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Speaker 1: up on the west side. I came up on like

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Speaker 1: ninetieth and eighth Avenue, and that's why I wound up

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Speaker 1: going to high school in Inglewood. I graduated from Mount

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Speaker 1: Berner Junior High School, which is now called Johnny Cochran

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Speaker 1: Junior High School in sixty six, okay, and we moved

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Speaker 1: to Inglewood ninetieth and eighth Avenue and the Forum was

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Speaker 1: just being built. Okay. I remember seeing those concrete forums

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Speaker 1: that go up the side of the building. They were

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Speaker 1: laying out on the ground. I was like, man, what

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Speaker 1: are they going to build here? Looked it was a form.

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Speaker 1: And then one of my greatest moments ever was to

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Speaker 1: get my parents into the forum. And we were selling

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Speaker 1: it out five nights in the roll so wow. But

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Speaker 1: grew up in LA and yes, was a fan of

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Speaker 1: fat burgers.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so again my you know, I was worn in

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Speaker 2: the seventies, so of course, you know when we hear

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Speaker 2: of South central Los Angeles and all of sudden you

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Speaker 2: hear the civil unrest, year of gang activity.

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Speaker 1: And whatnot, Like was it like that?

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you were a young teen in

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Speaker 2: the sixties and the Wats riots.

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Speaker 1: That's what changed everythinkly, I distinctly remember the Watch riots.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about it. I mean, where we were, the

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Speaker 1: rioting was not heavity. It was just sporadic, you know,

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Speaker 1: breakouts here and there. It was very heavy going on

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Speaker 1: in South central And the thing that blew my mind

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Speaker 1: was one evening, summer evening, We're just sitting out on

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Speaker 1: the front porch and an army tank came rolling down.

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Speaker 2: Army tanks were not something you saw on the street.

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Speaker 2: You saw them in movies.

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Speaker 1: And it blew my mind. Sat man, it's a real

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Speaker 1: army tank going down the street. And then at that time,

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Speaker 1: my older brother, who retired from LAPD as a lieutenant,

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Speaker 1: was in the police academy at that time, getting ready

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Speaker 1: to go into the police force. But it was a

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Speaker 1: crazy time man and then you know, hey, still today,

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Speaker 1: we're trying to do the best we can out here.

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Speaker 2: How did that personally affect you in the neighborhood after

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty five.

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Speaker 1: Actually, it didn't really affect me. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were aware that there was some trouble out on

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Speaker 1: the south end of the city. It didn't really affect me.

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Speaker 1: You know, you had your head on a swivel of

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Speaker 1: course everywhere you went. But did you go out much

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Speaker 1: or were you more of a homebody or well, you

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Speaker 1: know what, Actually, I've always been mostly a homebody. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm quite happy just when.

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Speaker 2: Like when I come off the road, I'm quite happy

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Speaker 2: just being at home, I see, you know, and just

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Speaker 2: hanging out. Okay, So I know about the master's children,

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Speaker 2: but like, how did you interact with bands back then?

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Speaker 2: How important were bands back then in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, bands in the neighborhood. That's a you know,

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Speaker 1: that's another movie. Bands in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was very important coming up because that's how

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Speaker 2: you got to, you know, learn about the other cats

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Speaker 2: in the neighborhood who were playing maybe your same instrument,

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Speaker 2: if not, you know, And that was the network that

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Speaker 2: you developed early on that you would probably keep for

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Speaker 2: the rest of your life, you know, And so you

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Speaker 2: would bounce around from band to band, and I certainly

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Speaker 2: did until I wound up with the Master's children at

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Speaker 2: Maverick's Flat, which was a big club in the sixties

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Speaker 2: on crenchat Boulevard and Baldwin Hills area. So back then,

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Speaker 2: was it fairly typical that one out of three people

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Speaker 2: knew how to play a musical instrument.

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Speaker 1: That's an interesting stat one out of I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Well, I definitely know that the idea of a musician.

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Speaker 2: I was told Nixon's budget cut in seventy three suddenly

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Speaker 2: all those things were taken out of schools. So in

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Speaker 2: your schooling, was it required that you learned how to

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Speaker 2: play an instrument?

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Speaker 1: It was not required, Okay, you could learn to play

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Speaker 1: if you wish to learn to play. And so in

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Speaker 1: my elementary school, in the fourth grade, I was already

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Speaker 1: in an orchestra playing drums. Okay. Now today, try and

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Speaker 1: find an orchestra in an elementary school. You can't. Where

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Speaker 1: is it? You won't find it. So I was introduced

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Speaker 1: very early on, and I took lessons very early on.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I took my first drum

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Speaker 1: lesson in April of nineteen fifty nine. I believe that's

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Speaker 1: the date.

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Speaker 2: Yes, those same books like Syncopation for the Modern Drummer

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Speaker 2: and Stick.

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Speaker 1: You know, I wasn't turned one of those books yet.

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Speaker 1: I would discover those books with a much better teacher

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Speaker 1: later on when I got to Grant's Music Center in

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Speaker 1: La No. It started a snare drum method book by

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Speaker 1: a drummer brother named Haskell Harr. You can still find

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Speaker 1: his books. But anyway, that's how I started. And then

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Speaker 1: you know, I just started playing around the neighborhood doing

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Speaker 1: all that. And then finally I found this place called

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Speaker 1: Grant's Music Center, and this is where all the cats

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Speaker 1: were coming to study and network and get gigs and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. Henry Grant owned it, and that's where

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Speaker 1: I wound up with probably the greatest teacher ever for me,

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Speaker 1: Clarence Johnston, who also taught Raymond Pounds, Ah Stevie's got Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there you go, Raymond Pounds and Clayton Cameron. Oh really,

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Speaker 1: we were the three that Clarence had that went out

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Speaker 1: there and did something. It was because I saw Raymond

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Speaker 1: playing with the Grants big band and swinging and he's

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Speaker 1: sitting swinging, going.

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Speaker 2: Higgy, get any bitch bach. I was like, whoa wait

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Speaker 2: a minute. And I went to him and asked, I said, man,

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Speaker 2: where are you getting this stuff? Man?

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Speaker 1: It's Grants music? I said, okay, fine, and I went

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Speaker 1: and signed up. And I spent man three or four

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Speaker 1: years with Clarence Johnston. That's how you got your jazz shop. Oh, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: because you gotta look Jim Chapin's Advanced Techniques for the

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Speaker 1: Modern Drummer. Yes, you know you got to play in

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Speaker 1: that book. Very familiar, Yes, very familiar with it, you know. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I'm a credit head liner. Note head Were.

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Speaker 2: There any other notable musicians that will wind up being

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Speaker 2: your peers years later that you ran into when you

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Speaker 2: guys were young teenagers in the sixties. No, besides Raymond

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Speaker 2: Towns and you know what. Not off the top of

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Speaker 2: my head. Okay, of course that may. I mean, we

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Speaker 2: may come back around to that. I mean, okay, So

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Speaker 2: in starting a band, what's required, Like, how.

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Speaker 1: Do you know which song sad? Like?

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Speaker 2: I don't know if there's a fake book for James

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Speaker 2: Brown or you get together with the guys for the

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Speaker 2: first time. You just kind of sit around and you jam.

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Speaker 2: You're just playing anything.

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Speaker 1: It might be a funk jam, it could be a

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Speaker 1: straight ahead jazz jam.

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Speaker 2: It could be anything. And you see how that feels.

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Speaker 2: And what you're looking for and what you're testing for

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Speaker 2: is the chemistry amongst the musicians.

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Speaker 1: How does this bass player feel? You're thinking this to yourself,

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Speaker 1: but it feels pretty good. What is a guitar player? Okay?

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Speaker 1: What is he? Okay? The keyboard is what is he doing?

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Speaker 1: And you're checking all this out because as a drummer,

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Speaker 1: you're hearing it all. You're sitting back there going okay.

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Speaker 1: So you're looking for chemistry because that, in the end

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Speaker 1: is going to be the bottom line, the chemistry amongst

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Speaker 1: the players. That to me is what makes it's a

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Speaker 1: given that all these guys can play, right. But see,

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Speaker 1: all all great musicians can't play together. Oh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: hate one great musicians are together.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's like all star gaming right right now, All great.

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Speaker 1: Musicians cannot play together.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because you got to get that ego stuff out

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Speaker 2: the way right, you know, gotch So what you're looking

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Speaker 2: for is great musicianship, great attitude, great chemistry, because at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's going to be the

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Speaker 2: chemistry that carries the band through if you can.

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Speaker 1: Get through the rest of that stuff.

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Speaker 2: In the mid sixties, when you're a teenager, is jazz

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Speaker 2: the most likely destination you want to wind up with?

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Speaker 2: Like I know that for a lot of the sixty

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Speaker 2: musicians I talk to, they kind of look down on

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Speaker 2: pop music, like Motown's just toy music or bubblegum music or.

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Speaker 1: The Beatles or whatever. Well, because I came up listening

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Speaker 1: to R and B and most of the R and

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Speaker 1: B stations, although there was a twenty LA had the

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Speaker 1: first ever twenty four hour jazz station KBCA one oh

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Speaker 1: five point one, okay, he said, and his best. But

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Speaker 1: I grew up listening to a lot of R and B.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't that I was growing up. I never

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Speaker 1: had a thought of saying, well, professionally, I want to

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Speaker 1: be a jazz musician. I knew I was going to

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Speaker 1: be with an R and B.

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Speaker 2: Type of situation because that's what I was listening to mostly.

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Speaker 2: But I had a deep appreciation for the jazz side

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Speaker 2: of things. So before your destiny was determined, who did

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Speaker 2: you imagine at fifteen or sixteen, man, if I could

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Speaker 2: play with blah blah blah, like who who are you

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Speaker 2: aiming for? As a young drummer teenager, I thought that

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Speaker 2: as a young drummer, being able to play with like

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Speaker 2: Freddie Hubbard would have been interesting.

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Speaker 1: Oh surviving Freddy, I thought. If you're familiar with.

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Speaker 2: Man, I thought that before he had his strokes, I

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Speaker 2: would have loved to have played with Keith Jarrett. Wow,

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Speaker 2: because the trio configuration is my favorite configuration. I just

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Speaker 2: give me drums, bass and piano and we'll create the stuff. Gotcha,

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Speaker 2: there's enough there to create some stuff. Okay, you know

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Speaker 2: it's all about your imagination. So yeah, those two for sure.

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Speaker 2: One big band. Jiro Wilson's a big band, all right,

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Speaker 2: So you definitely want it. Because Zero was local and

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Speaker 2: I could go see him.

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Speaker 1: So jazz was your That was a good destination point

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Speaker 1: for you. Well, it was a good destination point, but

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Speaker 1: it's not needless to say it's not where, not where

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Speaker 1: I wound up and not necessarily where I was trying

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Speaker 1: to aim.

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Speaker 2: But also sort of I mean, you know, but I

285
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Speaker 2: made sure I studied it. You guys had chops, you know,

286
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Speaker 2: I studied it. Clarence made sure that Raymond and I

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Speaker 2: and Clayton could play some straight ahead stuff.

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Speaker 1: Got you?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So tell me about the legendary Mavericks Flats. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: I say this always over Mavericks Flats. That's the rural

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Speaker 2: juror at Mavericks Flats. Actually it's Mavericks Flat. Mavericks Flat,

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Speaker 2: Mavericks Flat.

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Speaker 1: Okay. One. Where was it located? On forty two twenty

294
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Speaker 1: five Crenshaw Boulevard, just south of Stoker on Crenshaw, Okay,

295
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Speaker 1: on the west side of the street. Now, what period

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Speaker 1: is your Mavericks Flat? That's sixty eight, sixty nine seventy.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm playing every weekend at the club.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So can you just give me a typical run through?

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Speaker 2: All right, let's say it's March of nineteen seventy.

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Speaker 1: Uh is one?

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Speaker 2: Is Mavericks Flat like the spot I want to go

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Speaker 2: to if you're if you hit La, you want to

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Speaker 2: hit Mavericks Flat. Yes, okay, it was one of It

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Speaker 2: was probably the hottest black club.

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Speaker 1: Going. And there were other clubs. There were other clubs

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Speaker 1: on Crenshaw, but they just didn't have the attraction.

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Speaker 2: Who would play there. Oh Man Parliament. Funkadelic would come

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Speaker 2: through there. So if you're an established black act, you

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Speaker 2: could come through this. How large is the oh? It

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Speaker 2: would only hold about although John would make sure that

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Speaker 2: Bad Boy was packed legally about two hundred people maybe okay,

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Speaker 2: maybe not that I'm maybe over because there was an

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Speaker 2: upstairs on the downstairs, but all the entertainment took place downstairs. Now,

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Speaker 2: DJ culture wasn't a thing yet, right, so all music

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Speaker 2: had to be provided either a jukebox.

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Speaker 1: And a band. There was a juke box booth. He

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Speaker 1: had his turntables, and he would play music throughout the club.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yes, so even if bands weren't on stage, there

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Speaker 2: was always always so absolutely yes, yes, okay, And I

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Speaker 2: would assume that you would have to be good in

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Speaker 2: order to get there. I'm only asking you this once

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Speaker 2: because I believe weave in our interviews is I forgot

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Speaker 2: who it was, but somebody mentioned that when the original

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Speaker 2: pre classic Look, when I say Earth went in fire,

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Speaker 2: I mean you guys. So the band that was Earth

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Speaker 2: went in fire before you guys, right, the Warner Brothers band. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the Warner Brothers band. I heard that they were met

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Speaker 2: with indifference because they were a little too free jazz

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Speaker 2: and not enough.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think part of it was the look

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Speaker 1: they had. Okay, so it wasn't you that night or no, no, no, okay,

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Speaker 1: So what I'm going it's what I was hearing that

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Speaker 1: I think was Bob Caballo, one of our managers at

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Speaker 1: the time, Till Maurice like the idea, but you got

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Speaker 1: to get some younger cats, got you, okay, you know,

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Speaker 1: got to go with a whole nother look because these

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Speaker 1: cats were in fezes and beers and it just it

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Speaker 1: was just it's if you compare the two looks, you'll

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Speaker 1: see what I was saying.

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Speaker 2: Okay, when you're playing there, how many songs do you

341
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Speaker 2: have to learn?

342
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Speaker 1: Like? What's I want to know what the division of

343
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Speaker 1: labor was in terms.

344
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Speaker 2: Of like whose job was it to buy all the

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Speaker 2: forty fives to learn the songs? Did you all just

346
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Speaker 2: have to on your own? No, the forty fives were

347
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Speaker 2: usually there because they were part of the playlist on

348
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Speaker 2: the weekend, So somewhere in the DJ booth we could

349
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Speaker 2: find the forty fives and do we had to do?

350
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Speaker 2: And it's basically required for you to know whatever it

351
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Speaker 2: was hidden.

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Speaker 1: How it goes. Put on the record, listen to your part. Okay,

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Speaker 1: doom jot goom job goom goom chat all right, I

354
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Speaker 1: got that. You know, learn your part, base player, sit there,

355
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Speaker 1: hear the notes. Okay, you just you learn. You know,

356
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Speaker 1: that's how you did it. Put on the record and

357
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Speaker 1: just learn your stuff, got you? Yeah, you just you

358
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Speaker 1: learn your parts. You listen, you learn the part because

359
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,040
Speaker 1: there was no sheet music. Nobody was giving you sheet

360
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Speaker 1: music with a forty five right, gotcha, So you just listen.

361
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Speaker 1: What was your idea of quote unquote making it? Like,

362
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Speaker 1: did you feel as though, ad say, musician, you could

363
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Speaker 1: make a living just by playing in a band, playing

364
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 1: in playing drums or I felt that was possible if

365
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Speaker 1: you were with the right situation. And so if I

366
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Speaker 1: could have a car and live in an apartment, then

367
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Speaker 1: I felt like I was making it. Okay, that's that's

368
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Speaker 1: where you begin to think you're making it. Oh dude,

369
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Speaker 1: I told him now.

370
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Speaker 2: In your car, Well that this is where I learned

371
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Speaker 2: that I'm insatiable, because I got the crib in the

372
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Speaker 2: car and I was like, well, wait, I want this,

373
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Speaker 2: and then I got then I want And that's part

374
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Speaker 2: two to that whole thing. After you get the basics

375
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Speaker 2: in place, you go okay, yeah, what else?

376
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Speaker 1: I like that Picasso? Right?

377
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Speaker 2: You know exactly You're You're spot on by saying, how

378
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 2: did you meet Maurice White?

379
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Speaker 1: I met him at the first time we had our

380
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Speaker 1: first rehearsal. You never met. My dad was aware of him.

381
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 1: I'd seen him play on TV with Ramsey, but I

382
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 1: had not met him. So it wasn't until our first

383
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:10,120
Speaker 1: rehearsal that I met him. Who recommended you to Maurice

384
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Speaker 1: to well? This is this was part of the audition thing.

385
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Speaker 1: My audition was with Michael Beal, the original guitar player,

386
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Speaker 1: and Verdein White, the bass player, and we just sat

387
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Speaker 1: around and jammed for about forty five minutes. And then

388
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Speaker 1: after that was over, Verdin called Maurice and he said,

389
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Speaker 1: rees said what did you think? And virgin said, yeah,

390
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: he's the cat and we just went off from there.

391
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Speaker 2: Do you know what number you were as far as

392
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Speaker 2: the order of I know Vertein was asking how many

393
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 2: drummers auditioned? Well, no, no, no, I just met in terms

394
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Speaker 2: of like what's the pecking order of I know Verdein

395
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Speaker 2: was first who came in sech like were you.

396
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Speaker 1: I was like the first one to come in to

397
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: the new band, okay, and then Philip and Larry, you know,

398
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: then Al and Johnny and Andrew.

399
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 2: So one by one each member came to yep. Okay,

400
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 2: Philip came in after me.

401
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: Got you.

402
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 2: What did you hear about the first iteration of the

403
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 2: band breaking up starting all over again?

404
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 1: You know what?

405
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 2: I never heard anything about them about how or why

406
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 2: they broke up.

407
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 1: Okay. I just knew that I was being called to

408
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: be a part of this thing called Earth Winding Fire,

409
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 1: and I knew they had done two albums previously on

410
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. So I had to assume at that point

411
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 1: that something happened that caused that whole thing to go away,

412
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 1: you know. So do you don't know what exactly transpired?

413
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how Maurice went to them and said, hey,

414
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: guess what, surprise right, it's over, you know right? So

415
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: what was it?

416
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Speaker 2: Do you remember the very first day where the nine

417
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: of you are together in a room about to play

418
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 2: for the first time? Do I remember the very first

419
00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 2: There have been so many days. No, I can't say

420
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 2: that I can remember the exact first day. You know,

421
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 2: I can only tell you that anytime the nine of

422
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 2: us got together and started playing, it was some pretty

423
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 2: cool stuff. Really every time. Do you remember, like what

424
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 2: you first played? Was it just a jamming face? Usually jamming?

425
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: Okay, it's usually jamming, And probably Al McKay started with

426
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: a lick okay, one of his famous licks, you know,

427
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: and we would just jump in and start going.

428
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 2: With the group that large. You know, oftentimes there are clicks.

429
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 2: You know, we have it now. They're smokers, non smokers,

430
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 2: the vegetarians hanging together, the non vegetarians, don't you know,

431
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 2: those who drink go to the bar, those who don't.

432
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: Harry Krishna's right exactly. So who were you clicking up

433
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 2: with as far as those nine?

434
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: Like? Who was your your buddy? Initially Al McKay, okay,

435
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 1: so you were both from La. I mean I wasn't

436
00:23:58,240 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 1: born and raised in Elle, but we came up and

437
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: La together Oka, and our paths had already crossed, you know.

438
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: So initially Alan, I hung tough on the road. Man.

439
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 2: So before the record deal was like in place, because

440
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 2: I know that you guys had to audition for Clyde

441
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 2: Davis to get on Columbia. Yes, how did you guys eat?

442
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: What were you doing for a job while seeing?

443
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: Is this thing going to work? For real?

444
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 2: And when you're joining, are you joining under the pretense of, like, hey,

445
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: I'm joining a future major band or configuration or do.

446
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: You just think you know what? That's how I looked

447
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: at it. I thought I was joining a major situation

448
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: that was going to develop into something, you know. In

449
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: the meantime though, I was just getting a gig here

450
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: and there, just doing what I could to you know,

451
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: make ends meet, gotcha. But I felt like it was

452
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: a major move that was coming up okay by joining

453
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 1: Earth Wind and Fire, And as it turns out, it

454
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: turned out to be pretty cool.

455
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,479
Speaker 2: There's a lot of small tidbits for the sake of

456
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: storytelling that I had to leave out of the dock.

457
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,719
Speaker 1: However, why did you leave them out? Why?

458
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,239
Speaker 2: Because, man, it's a better storytelling. But one of the

459
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 2: most curious things that I could not figure out for

460
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: the life of me is that your audition.

461
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: Typically, when you're auditioning for.

462
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 2: A label, you know, you get a space, a rehearsal space,

463
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 2: a studio or something, and the guy comes to you,

464
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: and in this case, you guys had the audition for

465
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 2: Clive Davis by opening up for all people John Sebastian.

466
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: Well, let me let me say, let's back up, okay,

467
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: because I keep hearing you say we had to audition

468
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: for Well, No, we didn't have to. It's just that

469
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: that's the way it turned out. It wasn't. You're putting

470
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, she had that. No.

471
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: I always feel like everything you did was a do

472
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: or die situation, at least for those first three years.

473
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: But well, which is good. But we had already auditioned

474
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 1: for Clive by the time we opened for John Sebastian. Oh, okay.

475
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: We auditioned for Clive at Sunset Sound Studios in Hollywood, Okay,

476
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: because that's the part that was killing me.

477
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: And when he walked in with a couple of his guys,

478
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: we played about three numbers.

479
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: He got up and I was standing by the door.

480
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: For some reason. He looked at me and said, I'll

481
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: be in touch. I don't know what the next thing

482
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: I knew man, we were signed to Columbia Records, gotcha.

483
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 1: And let me just say about that whole thing. Earth

484
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: Wind and Fire was the right band at the right time,

485
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: with the right music. With the right record company, who

486
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: had the right president. All of that was a musical

487
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: perfect storm. Okay, that's what it was, man, and Clive

488
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 1: was so much into it. All right, I'm glad you

489
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: cleared that part up.

490
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: Wish someone told me that for the film, only because

491
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 2: I thought that you guys like Bob Cavallo told me

492
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: that John Sebastian, whom if you guys are old enough

493
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 2: to remember, Welcome Back Cotter, Love and Spoonful, well, Love

494
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: and Spoonful, but also he sing the theme to Welcome

495
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 2: Back Cotter and also a lot of times I'm in

496
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,239
Speaker 2: the city. Yes, right, Love and Spoonful was playing at

497
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: the Lincoln Center, and I'm trying to imagine what his

498
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: audience is thinking watching you guys as crazy as you

499
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: are on stage.

500
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: Like, certainly it was a departure from the John Sebastian genre.

501
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 2: Right, And so my thing is like, that's a risk

502
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: because you have to win that audience over so that

503
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: the president. I mean, that's a good tester, like, but

504
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 2: you know what, See, I don't know if Clive was

505
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 2: sitting there going, oh, man, I hope they win the

506
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: audience over. He Clive was in Okay, Clive was convinced, gotcha,

507
00:27:58,920 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 2: so it didn't matter.

508
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: We could have that night, okay, which we didn't.

509
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, we could have bombed that night,

510
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 2: but Clive would have been like, Okay, all right, let's

511
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: get into the studio, cut the record, let's go.

512
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: I see now.

513
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: Because Maurice wasn't established drummer and percussionists, did you ever

514
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: feel like you got more direction than your other bandmates?

515
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: Like was he? No? No, not at all. Although Maurice

516
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: and I had a lot of great conversations about drums

517
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: and drummers, and I can tell you one of his

518
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: favorite drummers was the drummer who played with organist Jack McDuff.

519
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: His name was Joe Dukes. Okay, look him up. I

520
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: will look him up, you know. And he's talking about

521
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: Joe Dukes, man, Joe Dukes. But I mean we had

522
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: a lot. He was talking about Tony Williams. He introduced

523
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: him to Roy Haynes.

524
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: Maurice gave me an album by Chick corea trio once again, right, yep,

525
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: it's entitled Now he sings Now, He's sobs. Are you

526
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: familiar with this? I'm familiar with it, but get it's

527
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: a great trio album, and it's of course Chick on piano,

528
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: Miroslav Vito's on base and Roy Haynes on drums.

529
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: Okay, what is your top three come to Jesus moments

530
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: as far as like records that like change your life

531
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: in terms of your craft?

532
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: Man?

533
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: Why I usually ask, if your house burns down, what

534
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: three records are you saving?

535
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: Oh? Not? You put it like that? Well, you know

536
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: you got to take Marma Gaye's what's going on with you? Okay?

537
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: If the house is burning down right after that, I

538
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: think I'd have to grab earth wind and fires all

539
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: in all. Well, you can't wait a minute, time out.

540
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: I'm talking about you said what you said? Forget, I

541
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: could take any three forget the house burning down?

542
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I'm just saying, let's start over.

543
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 2: What yes, what three records would you say are just

544
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: the most influential game as a.

545
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: Drum Okay, influential as a drummer? Yes, okay, well you

546
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: know what? Okay, you got to give me Miles Davis

547
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: pork in best Okay, what is it about that album?

548
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: I love the collaboration between him and Gil Evans. Yes, right,

549
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: one of three, maybe four, because there's one you never

550
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: hear about called Quiet Nights. Okay, you're right, Sketch porge

551
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: in Best Miles Ahead, Miles Ahead. Yeah, and I was

552
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: gonna say so. On the pork In Best album, there's

553
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: a tune on there called Gone Gone Gone, yesub it

554
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: up dun but uh good? Who is that playing drums?

555
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: And he's one of my favorite drummers, Philly. Thank you

556
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: very much, Philly Joe Jones. That what now you know?

557
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 2: Philly Joe Jones has a solo book. This he has

558
00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: a solo book.

559
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: See. That's one of the reasons I'm here today is

560
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: to tell you about the Philly Joe Jones solo Okay,

561
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: it's about this thick. It's three hundred and some odd pages,

562
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: and it's every solo that Philly Joe ever recorded, transcribed

563
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: with the sticking. So there's a fake book for Philly

564
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: Joe Jones. I'm telling you I did not know this.

565
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: And if you can buy, if you can find the

566
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: spiral bind and get it, because then you can open

567
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: it up and actually study a page. Otherwise, if it's

568
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: a regular you know, pace binding, it won't stay open.

569
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, man, I found this online. I have given

570
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: some out of his gifts. I said, you got to

571
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: have this. Yeah, and it's not like you have to

572
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: study a whole solo. Just take one line of any song. Okay,

573
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: this you know, piece by piece? How do you eat

574
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: an elephant piece of the time? Come on, come on,

575
00:31:59,320 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: come on?

576
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: You know always does he come with these sayings and

577
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: idioms all the time.

578
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm showing out now man, this school of me,

579
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: but I want this to be memorable.

580
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: Any conversation I have with you is memory. Okay, all right, okay.

581
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: Oh.

582
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: I went to high school with Christian McBride and Joey Decrisisco.

583
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: So in order to Sir Christip them in order to

584
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 2: get their respect, I had.

585
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: To learn I had to learn this in order to

586
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: get their respect.

587
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: I love Christian McBride. Yes, man, he's got a trio.

588
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: Yes, and from it there's a live recording hit he

589
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: did in New York here. It might have been the

590
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: Buildings of Vanguard, probably on there they have a version

591
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: and I played on my show of Michael Jackson's Lady

592
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: in My Life. Has you heard this? I know this?

593
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: Come on, man, I know, come on, Chris is my man.

594
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: Oh it's great, it's my man, all right, so I

595
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: gave you Miles Dayavis, Miles Ahead. Yes, I'm going to

596
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: go back to another Miles Davis album hit Me and

597
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: the reason I'm going to go back to this Miles

598
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: Davis album. I don't know if you knew this because it.

599
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: Was the last acoustic album Miles recorded before he went

600
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 2: electric with in a silent way, Nephertiti.

601
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: Thank you very much?

602
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: Yeah man, right, yeah, I will say that.

603
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: Okay.

604
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: One of my dreams was to hear the outtakes, okay,

605
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: and I used to bug her about it. So what's

606
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: notable about the title track of Nephertiti is that Miles

607
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: and Wayne are playing the straight guys by not sowing

608
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 2: repeating this line ad nausea all over again.

609
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, becausere are no chord changes. It just goes on.

610
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: It just goes on. But what Ron and Tony Williams

611
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: are just and neighbor's having some fun. He's having some fun.

612
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: He's just letting them go.

613
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 2: Absolutely part of my French ape shit, Amen, like him

614
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 2: and Wayne are just playing it straight.

615
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 1: And one I kept asking.

616
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 2: Herb I was like, yo, like, I've never heard a

617
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: jazz song in which the leads don't take solos, but

618
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 2: the foundation are the ones.

619
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: That are doing it.

620
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 2: And he's like, you got to listen to the outtakes.

621
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: And what's so weird is so they went through about

622
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 2: four takes of it. Really on take number two there's

623
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: a moment where Herbie and Miles and all the you know,

624
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 2: tea was letting all the banner out on tape. He

625
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: didn't stop the tape, and by take two they realized.

626
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: Oh, wait a minute, wait are you going solo?

627
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 2: And the way they laughed when they realized that nobody

628
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 2: was taking the solo and doing on the line straight, it

629
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: was like, not a joke, but it was so funny

630
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 2: to them that they forgot to take solos. They was like, nah, man,

631
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: just leave it, it's gonna be funny. And I was like,

632
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: that was mind blowing to me.

633
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: Interesting. The thing I love about Neffer TD is I've

634
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: always thought that that melody was very haunting, ah, especially

635
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: the fourth time it comes in the you know when

636
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: they add the octave, you know, and they play behind

637
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: each other right right right delayed.

638
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, it's the chardal palette underneath that melody.

639
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 1: That makes it so strange. Listen to just the chords.

640
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: Forget about everything else. Just listen to what Herbie was playing.

641
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, the one time when the right do the line

642
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: and everybody just takes it over. Pray is a very

643
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 2: haunting song. All right, So we need a.

644
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 1: Third out and Fall.

645
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 2: I will say that Fall is probably my favorite, the

646
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: song that comes after Neffertit falls like one of my

647
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: favorite Yes, ye.

648
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's a great too. All right. So your

649
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: third album, Okay.

650
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 2: Okay, here's what we're gonna do. Just name the third album.

651
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: Here's what here's what we're gonna do.

652
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: Here's what we're gonna do on this third album. Stevie

653
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: Wonders Music of my Mind.

654
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 2: This is not the first time that's been mentioned on

655
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: this show, really, because Stevie was starting to get into

656
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: this whole synthesizer thing and he went way in on

657
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: it on this album. I love when hearing people talk

658
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 2: about this record on this show. All right, So the

659
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: first time that you're hearing it, do you have any expectations?

660
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: Are people hyping it up to you already, like you

661
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: gotta hear this record?

662
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: Or like how do you tell you? Okay, I got

663
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: a great story about that record. The first time we

664
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: played Washington, DC. Okay, we played the DC Army and

665
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: nest in the Parliament. Funker Del's just tore us up.

666
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: Another story, Oh, trust me, that's on the documentary story somewhere.

667
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: It's there. Yes, But there was an after party, and

668
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: so we went to this after party and the first

669
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: time I heard that album was it's the opening tune. Yeah.

670
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, what is this? And that that

671
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: started me into that record. Really yes, yes, and I

672
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: came home I said, give me this this album right here,

673
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: this one, you know. Okay, So what about those three choices?

674
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 2: I totally see it, and I agree with you, I

675
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 2: too love those three records.

676
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: Did Marius ever discuss.

677
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 2: The idea of Okay, now we jokingly say respectability politics,

678
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: but then it was dignity, sophistication, black joy, excellence.

679
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: Did he ever sort of explain to you guys.

680
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 2: It's not like he ever sat down and laid out

681
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 2: a blueprint.

682
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: Okay. You know, we all knew that he wanted to

683
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 1: do music with integrity, and he wanted to do music

684
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: that would deliver a message, you know, as he says,

685
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: render of service to humanity by way of the music.

686
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: So it's no, it's not like he ever sat down

687
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: and said, Okay, look here's the plan. ABCDEFG is what

688
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna do. Bang and we're out there. No, we

689
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: just let him lead. Just let him lead, because he

690
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: had it all up here anyway.

691
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 2: So one of the most fascinating things that I've learned

692
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: about you guys, especially in dissecting the story, was how

693
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 2: challenging maybe the first two to three years was because

694
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: a lot of us will tend to think that you

695
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 2: guys literally just landed from the sky and these awesome

696
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 2: bills within and outfits and were wrong.

697
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: Love, they're wrong. They will learn this.

698
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: But it's also important to see the best thing about

699
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 2: this doc, I think is when you guys have a challenge,

700
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: the way that you pivot. Now, one of the things

701
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 2: I was shocked and learned about you know, because I

702
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: thought that, oh, when you go on tour, it's like

703
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 2: every tour where there's a luxury.

704
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 1: Bus and bunks.

705
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 2: And the thing that you shocked me with was that

706
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: you guys were driving station. So can you for our

707
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 2: well you just said it the station Wang of days.

708
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: So tell me about typically, like, because that to me

709
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: is like you go on stage, but are you your

710
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: own roady as well.

711
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: We are. I packed my drums many many a night.

712
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: Are you kidding? So you're your own? Yes, we had

713
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: two guys. Now, we didn't have two guys that would

714
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: get the stuff out the truck and to begin to

715
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: but we had no problems with setting up our stuff,

716
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 1: okay at all. We were. This is why you played

717
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: with the small kid. No, not necessarily, not because that

718
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: was going to be easier to set up. It's just

719
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: that's the kid I chose to play with because all

720
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 1: the photos I've seen you three piece, four piece yeah yeah, okay, yeah, yeah,

721
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,919
Speaker 1: but no, many and night. I set up my own

722
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: stuff absolutely, And I had a great Ludwig drum story

723
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 1: for you. Tell me because at the rehearsal the other day,

724
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: I commented on your snare drum. Yeah, I said, man,

725
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: it looks like a Ludwig super funic. And I want

726
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 1: to tell you that when I was in junior high school,

727
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 1: I carried with me all the time a Ludwig drum catalog.

728
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: I was going to get a Ludwig drums and I did.

729
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 1: I got me a beautiful silver sparkle silver superclassic. Fell

730
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: in love with that drum, said man.

731
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 2: I believed weren't you playing that on the Gratitude album?

732
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 2: I believe you're playing with I think I had twin times.

733
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 2: That wasn't the superclassic, that wasn't what I started with.

734
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, man, no, it's the best sounding time. Come on,

735
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 2: come on, come on with drums man time. And I

736
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 2: became a member because Ludwick was sponsoring this. There is

737
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 2: an organization called the National Association of Rudimental Drummers.

738
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: Nar in ARD and you had the audition to become

739
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: a member. And I remember driving up to because I

740
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: lived in Inglewood in the Hollywood to Professional Drum Shop

741
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: on Vine, which was across the street from the Musicians Union.

742
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: That's still there, I mean, well the one I pro

743
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: drum Shop is still there. The Musicians Union is out

744
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: in Burbank, Okay. And auditioning for the owner at that time,

745
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: his stepsons now own it, Bob Jaeger. And if you

746
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: ever get a chance, go on YouTube and look at

747
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: the sixtieth anniversary of pro Drum Shop and look at

748
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: the history of that shop. But I remember having to

749
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: audition demonstrate I could play the rudiments, and so today

750
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: I have this certificate in my studio on the wall

751
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: says in Ard National Association, and the date is March

752
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, I believe.

753
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 2: So even with a deal and established air quotes, you

754
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 2: still had to go there to show that.

755
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:13,240
Speaker 1: You Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I got this. Okay, yeah, okay.

756
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 2: One thing I couldn't get into only because there's literally

757
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: no history of well one relatives or anything. And Jessica's

758
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: not here anymore because many people don't know. I mean,

759
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: if they love keep your head to the sky, they

760
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 2: know she exists. But I mean, how hard is it

761
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 2: for Jessica to jel in with the rest of the guys,

762
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 2: just in terms of the wear and tear, in the

763
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: travel and what you have to go through to make it. Actually,

764
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: Jessica fit right in. She would hang with us. She

765
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 2: was like one of the cats, you know, got you.

766
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 2: But I think eventually, man, you know.

767
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: Sometimes you can get a little distracted. You know, somebody

768
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: might introduce something for someone and it can be a

769
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: big distraction. Eventually, you know, rees said, hey, look we

770
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: gotta part ways, gotcha, you know.

771
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: But it's been on the record that substance abuse entered

772
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 2: the picture the picture no doubt, So I mean, how

773
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 2: hard is it to adjust to Reese's philosophy of clean

774
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 2: living and spiritual living like on the road, like where

775
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 2: you guys expected to follow his.

776
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: Diet and all those things as well. Well. First off,

777
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: let me say it wasn't like it was a mandate.

778
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 2: Okay, so you know, all right, here's what we're doing,

779
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: and you're going to do it right.

780
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: No, that's not how it went down because Reese led

781
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: by example. So instead of telling you what you should

782
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: be eating, he might say, he may come up, I'm

783
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: going up a Hollywood boulevard here to Johnny Wisemuller's Health

784
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: food storm, pick up some vitamins. You'd go, oh, really,

785
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: and what is that for? And you get into it.

786
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 2: An eventually your mindset would begin to absorb this stuff.

787
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: You would take it. It would become a part of you.

788
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 2: Okay, So when I entered the game, I will say

789
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 2: that was the first year of like ninety four, ninety five,

790
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: really ninety six, but let's say ninety four.

791
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: The commercialization of wellness.

792
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 2: You know, you can go to Whole Foods, you can

793
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: go to fresh Fields, like each town has that specialty

794
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 2: store if you want to do healthy, clean living. But

795
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: how are you maintaining that sort of clean living. If

796
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 2: you have a show in Alabama or Mississipian, you know nothing.

797
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not.

798
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 2: It's not shots fire to Alabama, but I've been to

799
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: many a southern state where they kind of laugh at

800
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: you because it's like, you know, plant pasca.

801
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: Right right, right, right right.

802
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: So when you're America, you're into that kind of lifestyle,

803
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 2: it's going to be hard to make attain that because

804
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: that's not a uniform lifestyle across the United States.

805
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: Of America, you know, So you just have to pick

806
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: and choose your spots. But today, but some nights you

807
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: guys and just have a salad.

808
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 2: Oh okay, you know, but I mean no, because we

809
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 2: have excellent catering, so, I mean, you know, we try

810
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 2: to keep it on the right level.

811
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,959
Speaker 1: I don't have any complaints about catering. Have you played, man,

812
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: Look when you play the venue up in Toronto, they're

813
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: catering up. There is off the chain. Oh dude. I

814
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: could write a whole Zagga guide on when are you

815
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: doing this?

816
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 2: Because you need to get started well, I mean, you know,

817
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: just after this documentary thing is done, there's twolve more

818
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 2: for me. When you guys are coming up and okay,

819
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: so there's you know, well it already aired on HBO,

820
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: so that people know and we talk about, uh, the

821
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 2: p funk situation and you guys having to get your

822
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 2: funk together to handle them. I always wanted to know,

823
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: were you guys even aware of the song Let's take

824
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 2: It to the Stage by Parliament Funkadelic, which I mean,

825
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 2: you know it wasn't just you guys. They were playfully

826
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 2: going after rufus. Yeah, yeah, I remember hearing, but what really?

827
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: Okay, you didn't know? All right, people have their fun.

828
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 1: There you go.

829
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 2: There's another story I wanted to tell but couldn't. The

830
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 2: War story. Do you remember this at all? War wanted

831
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: to headline and you guys wanted to not be first.

832
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: So there was like a group that opened and then

833
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 2: you guys went on and absolutely murdered and destroyed, and

834
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 2: then like half the house leaves after you guys are done,

835
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 2: like kind of leaving War with an empty house at

836
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 2: the end at its most before the bill within professionalism

837
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 2: of Earth Wind and Fire, like what bands were in

838
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 2: the scope of we had to blow them off the

839
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 2: stage were just anyone could get it back then like

840
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 2: anybody that was on stage with us was in trouble

841
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 2: because we knew we were a hot band.

842
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 1: We knew we could play if you were on stage

843
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: with us, well what band? Secretly? I mean, look, we

844
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: could be diplomatic now, you guys. We knew there was

845
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: some payback coming with the Funkadelics.

846
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, that was like, no matter what, we're going

847
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 2: to get the Funkadelics.

848
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 1: How did you feel about the Commodorees.

849
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 2: Well, see the Commodorees cooling, the Gang Tower Power. You know,

850
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 2: we were we were trying to get all of them, Okay.

851
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 2: You know, so anytime we were on stage together, it

852
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 2: was a thing, you know, but we would go out.

853
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: You know, we're always very focused, okay, And that's one

854
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: of the reasons why I still today. Before we go

855
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: on stage, we gather in the circle and just kind

856
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: of pulled the energy in because once we hit the stage,

857
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: we're just in this thing and we're not going to

858
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: stop until the last song. You know.

859
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 2: The one photo of you guys that made an impression

860
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 2: on me as a kid was the dust Sleeve of Gratitude,

861
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: which is a bird's eye view of the California Jam

862
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 2: of cal Jam A one hundred and fifty thousand.

863
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: You know, the numbers keep changing on that. You know

864
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 1: what else is interesting? My wife was there? You were

865
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: at cal Jam? Wow? Did you guys meet then or

866
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,959
Speaker 1: in years much later?

867
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 2: I watched that cal Jam performance and sort of tracking

868
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 2: the band's adventures in terms of learning from past mistakes,

869
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,919
Speaker 2: I would say a lesser band would have probably gave

870
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 2: into the fear. And this is after establishing the Philadelphia

871
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 2: story with the Uptown Theater, which you know, the main

872
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 2: word is Philadelphia. We are known to boot. We booed Beyonce,

873
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 2: We boot Santa Claus.

874
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 1: Like you didn't boot Santa Claus. We did? Oh no,

875
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: there Philly. Philly has like.

876
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: Moments, yes, players that retired throwing batteries at them because

877
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 2: they still lost the game. Now we are of rude city,

878
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 2: So you getting booed at the Uptown is just that's

879
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 2: that's the way we say we love you. But you know,

880
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 2: was there any fear whatsoever? Like right before cal Jam?

881
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 2: Of like so cal Jam is a Woodstockian kind of yeah,

882
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 2: But I want to say something about the fear thing.

883
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 2: We never had any fear. I don't remember ever having

884
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 2: any fear about going on that stage doing a show.

885
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: It was like, Okay, counted off, let's go. That was

886
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: our attitude, not the persons.

887
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 2: Thinking like no, nope, nope, nobody you know what we

888
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 2: tell you. We were like the Navy seals of R

889
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 2: and B. Once we locked in and had the mission straight,

890
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 2: it was over for whoever is on the other side.

891
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: Okay, that was all right, I'm telling you. That was

892
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: the attitude.

893
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: You don't have to tell me twice you're in the

894
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 2: early fire like. That was like, hey, man, okay, just

895
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 2: Maurice counted off and here we go for an hour

896
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: and a half. So there was never indifference or folded

897
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: arms or no no, no long face that we were

898
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 2: in the mission together.

899
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: Okay.

900
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 2: The Open Your Eyes album, what makes that notable for

901
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 2: me is that you guys decided to shack up Caribou

902
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 2: Wrench in Denver, Colorado in the wintertime where it's super cold,

903
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 2: man man and isolated. So what was the decision to

904
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 2: isolate yourselves outside of the comfort of the city and

905
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 2: all those things to make this record?

906
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: Well, that was it. To get away from the comforts

907
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: of the city, to get away from any distractions of

908
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: the city. Maurice just wanted to be along with the

909
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 1: band in a creative space and just work on being creative,

910
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: coming up with the best product. We could come up

911
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: with the best songs free. That's the way the world.

912
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:17,720
Speaker 2: What would you say was the time spent on the road,

913
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: Like as a road person, how many I don't mean

914
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 2: how many gigs would you do a year?

915
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: But just not being home? Were you one hundred day

916
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: a year? It could be on the road eight months,

917
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: not consecutively, Okay, it would be broken up and eight months,

918
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: He's easy. How do you maintain home? Like?

919
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 2: Is someone mowing the lawn? Is someone paying the electric bill?

920
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 2: Is the first thing you do is move into an apartment?

921
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 2: See you don't have that kind of overhead.

922
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: Okay, no, sure it.

923
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 2: Would be tough to maintain a home. But then, like

924
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 2: I just said, man, if you live in an apartment,

925
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:58,720
Speaker 2: you have to worry about that kind of stuff.

926
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: And I didn't get married until seventy nine, gotcha, so

927
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: at that point I already had my home.

928
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 2: I just needed a beautiful lady to kind of hold

929
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 2: everything together. God, so there were challenges, but you knew

930
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 2: what you had to do, you know, so the home

931
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 2: life could suffer maybe not, did you? As far as

932
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 2: the recording of Open Our Eyes, which a lot of

933
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: people feel that that's the beginning scene of you guys

934
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 2: really finding your way.

935
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 1: I'm interesting. I've always thought that that album was kind

936
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: of a turning point musically, if you go back to

937
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: the song selection, like, for instance, Spasmodic Moves, a bebop thing.

938
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm inside too was always the fun part,

939
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,720
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, right right right? So do you consider

940
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 2: that the last of the old era, whereas that's the

941
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 2: way the world's the beginning of a new I.

942
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: Consider that album the beginning of a new musical journey. Now,

943
00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: is Charles Stepnie aboard this time? Or yes? Okay, so

944
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: even if it's not getting passed.

945
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 2: When we started working on Spirit, okay, as a matter

946
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 2: of fact, we were about to cut the track.

947
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: I was sitting on drums and the phone rang.

948
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 2: We were in the studio about to record Spirit, the title,

949
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 2: the actual title track.

950
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:19,439
Speaker 1: That's weird. I thought you guys wrote Spirit after Charles died. No,

951
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 1: we were I was sitting we were getting record it.

952
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the drums and Maurice got the phone call.

953
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: He says, hey man, Charles just passed. I was like,

954
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: oh man, So we went in and proceeded to record Spirit.

955
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 2: Now what explain what Charles's role in the band was

956
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 2: and how important he was and what he brought to

957
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 2: the table.

958
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 1: Well, Charles Stepney and Maurice went way back to Chicago,

959
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,240
Speaker 1: I mean, because he's recording with Charles all the time

960
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: at Jesz Records. Charles Stepney was an incredible, incredible composer, arranger,

961
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: and he was very instrumental in the beginning stages of

962
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: Earth Winding Fire with the production, with the arrangements. If

963
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: you go to our very first album on Columbia Last

964
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: Days and Times, his arrangements, he was very instrumental in

965
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: getting us on track.

966
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 2: So and see the Light like he's doing all that,

967
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 2: the crazy whirlwind of horns, it sounds like a tornado.

968
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: That was yet Yeah, that was Chiles Stephanie. Yeah, but

969
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: that's how broad he was with his arrangement skills. And

970
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: if you ever get a chance, man, listen to Many

971
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: Rippertson's first solo album, Yes, Come All Garden all the time.

972
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: I listened to that. Okay, come to My Garden man,

973
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: some great stuff on there.

974
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 2: Okay, So probably the most notable thing about that's the

975
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 2: way the world. To me, that's a sort of like

976
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 2: a time capsule is that's also the beginning of deep snare,

977
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 2: earth wind and fire. Now here's the thing like for

978
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 2: me as far as my favorite all time song like

979
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 2: Mighty Mighty is to me one of the greatest. Like

980
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 2: I'm a crack snare guy, you know what I mean,

981
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 2: Like Paron Stephones like my my idol as far as

982
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 2: because I love the sound of a crack snare. So

983
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 2: Steve Roon's work where average White band was like to

984
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 2: have a question about that.

985
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: Are you one too? Because I've been one for years too,

986
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: Because there's some cast that will play stick to the

987
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 1: center of the head and that's a sound. But I

988
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: came up playing rim and head at the same Oh

989
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:39,760
Speaker 1: rimenhead always.

990
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 2: I always, my stick always goes to seven o'clock to

991
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 2: eleven right my left side, I have zones where I

992
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 2: hit I never hit that center. I've not played traditional

993
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 2: in decades.

994
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: It was Sonny Emery that got me started on match

995
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: really yeah Sunny Way with the band really, So you

996
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: always I was traditional. I was always traditional until Sonny

997
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: came along. I said match script and I started experimenting

998
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: with it, and so I go back and forth.

999
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 2: It depends I will play traditional, because when I play traditional,

1000
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 2: I hit lighter because it's a different touch. It's totally

1001
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 2: different touch. But here's what I learned, though.

1002
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: I learned.

1003
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 2: That the lighter you hit in the studio, the boombastic

1004
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: loudness that you want, you have to play soft so

1005
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 2: that it doesn't destroy the mic that you're on. Like

1006
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 2: if I were using Sure fifty sevens, then I can

1007
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 2: just whack ahead right, yes, yes, the engineer is always like, dude,

1008
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: the more silent you play, the more I'll really engineer

1009
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 2: you to make you sound like King Kong. And then

1010
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 2: once I realized that, then I started playing lighter but

1011
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 2: for you though. Drum tone wise, look, I respect deep

1012
00:56:56,120 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 2: snare tones, but it was never my favorite, Like, how

1013
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 2: did you feel about machine of it all?

1014
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: My go to snare was always the Ludwick Superphonic four hundred. Okay,

1015
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 1: why is this?

1016
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 2: Because it was just it was just so easy to tune.

1017
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 2: I always loved the sound I got out of it.

1018
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 2: I just never had any complaints about it at all,

1019
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 2: you know, until I switched over.

1020
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: And now today I'm playing d w drums. Really, Oh,

1021
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: I have a beautiful tw set at home. You would

1022
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: absolutely love it.

1023
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 2: But live though, you would? You and Fred would crack

1024
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 2: it up. Yeah, yeah, crack it up. So wait, is

1025
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 2: it true that Fred came a boy because you had

1026
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 2: strap throat one night or something?

1027
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: Well? I did. There was a case where I came

1028
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: up but Fred was already in the band. I had

1029
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: to go home one.

1030
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 2: Time though, because I had strap throat. Okay, yeah, it

1031
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,919
Speaker 2: was bad. Have you ever had a strap throat? No, dude,

1032
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 2: you don't want strap throat?

1033
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 1: How long were you out? For? About a week? Okay,

1034
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: about a week and then I came back, you know.

1035
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 1: But look, anytime you can't drink water without your throat burning,

1036
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: you know you got something. Ooh that's crazy. I definitely

1037
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: don't want that. Strap throat is no fun.

1038
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 2: But anyway, but for double drummer groups, I mean, there's

1039
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 2: the Doobie Brothers, this is the Alman Brothers. James Brown, Yeah,

1040
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 2: James Brown. You guys, how hard is it to adjust?

1041
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: See? Right?

1042
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 2: Like someone has to be forty nine, someone has to

1043
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,919
Speaker 2: be fifty one. How do you decide who's the lead? Well,

1044
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 2: you know what, we didn't go through a long period.

1045
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 2: Freddie and I did not go through a long period

1046
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 2: of trying to get the eagles out the way.

1047
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: We just immediately understood what we had to do. It

1048
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: couldn't sound like two drummers. That had to sound like

1049
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: one drummer got you, even though it was two drummers.

1050
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: So we got all that stuff out the way and

1051
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: we just locked it in. We didn't go through a

1052
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: lot of changes about that.

1053
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 2: So ramping up earth when and fire to the point

1054
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 2: where now you guys are a stadium act, an arena act.

1055
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 2: Can you just talk about the sort of upgrading of

1056
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 2: it all, Like bringing in George Faison, bringing in Doug

1057
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 2: Henning and his assistant an unknown name, David Copperfield, like

1058
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 2: the idea of magic, Like are you guys having meetings

1059
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 2: and he's telling you, like, we have to do a

1060
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 2: different presentation that we've ever done before.

1061
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 1: Well, it wasn't like Maris called a meeting he said okay,

1062
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: look this is what we're getting ready to do. He

1063
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: would just do it, and he would he might say, okay,

1064
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 1: look we're going to get this magician Doug Henning or

1065
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: David Copperfield to come in and give us some extra

1066
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: stuff because he really was about presentation. And I like

1067
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: what George Faison says in the documentary says it was

1068
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: theater and that's what Maurice wanted. He wanted the music side,

1069
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: but he wanted some theatrics. He wanted more than just

1070
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: some guys stand on stage playing their axes, you know.

1071
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: And so that's how we got into the whole theatrics thing.

1072
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: I think Verdein said, you guys rehearsed for five months?

1073
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: Is that true? Like you had to rehearse for five

1074
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 1: months to make sure a little bit. Yeah, because there

1075
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: was a lot going on. We had a lot of

1076
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: stuff going on. So yeah, we had to make sure

1077
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: we had it down and Maurice wasn't gonna let it

1078
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,479
Speaker 1: leave the city until we had it all the way down.

1079
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, So how long would it take to lock.

1080
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 2: Just with music before you even start with Okay, now

1081
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 2: we have to lock with well that was again dancing

1082
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 2: that that could be about a month, just make sure

1083
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 2: the music is all the way down and making sure

1084
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 2: it's the right set list. So what George famously did

1085
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 2: was take you out of your comfort zone and brought

1086
01:00:55,760 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 2: you to the forefront. How was it adjusting to now

1087
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 2: being in the front line as opposed to being in

1088
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: the back line hiding one back of the band to

1089
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 2: bind your drums. So you're literally now without a shield

1090
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 2: or the shield of a mic stand. Like what was

1091
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 2: that adjustment?

1092
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: Like? Actually the and did you protest? No? No, I

1093
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: didn't protest. But let me also say I was quite

1094
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: comfortable sitting on the drums and was not expecting to

1095
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 1: be brought out front to do vocals. I never asked

1096
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: for that position. That's not something I wanted to do.

1097
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 1: I just wanted to stay in the back and play

1098
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: the drums.

1099
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 2: So was it so that Maurice and Philip weren't a duo?

1100
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 2: But now there would be like three people. There would

1101
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 2: be people flanking Maurice, myself and phil That was the

1102
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 2: idea to give it more symmetry. So you had Maurice,

1103
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 2: then you had phil and Ralph. But why not Verdeen

1104
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 2: who's very energetic? Because Verdeen did he dance or could

1105
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 2: he move well? The kind of choreography that George Faison

1106
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 2: was laying down, Vertein would not be able to do

1107
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 2: with the bass guitar in his hand.

1108
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: Okay, it just wouldn't be feasible.

1109
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 2: Okay, it also goes for the guitar players, although the

1110
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 2: guitar players dick quite well.

1111
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: Al Johnny Andrew was a great dancer, you know. So no,

1112
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: we just whatever George showed us. We just tried to

1113
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 1: work on it and get it down.

1114
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 2: How far did it feel for that first week though,

1115
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 2: to just or what did you discover in being in

1116
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 2: that front line, because it's not like you were demoted.

1117
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: You were actually promoted.

1118
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 2: I was promoted, but you were also without your shield,

1119
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 2: like I'm certain that you came to this world like

1120
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 2: I'm a drummer in the world's greatest group, but now

1121
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 2: I'm a singer in the world's greatest group.

1122
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: So it took some adjustment on the vocal side because

1123
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 1: I was not a vocalist. Dude, I was not prepared

1124
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 1: vocally to take that on that front, that outfront thing.

1125
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 2: So Maurice was cool enough because he was studying with

1126
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 2: the very famous vocal teacher in La Sethy Riggs.

1127
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: Okay, he said, Ralph.

1128
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 2: I'm a senior Seth Riggs's gonna take lessons from Seth.

1129
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 2: I'm taking care of it.

1130
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 1: Just go And that's how I got my vocal stuff. Together,

1131
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 1: so you have to do that move. Oh yeah, you

1132
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 1: know all of that. Yes, nice, And I still use those,

1133
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 1: by the way, I don't do them every night, but

1134
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 1: if I feel my voice is a little off, I'll

1135
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 1: go in there. Michael Jackson's entire forty one minute vocal

1136
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: coaching coaching thing with Seth Riggs is on YouTube and

1137
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: that's what we all. Yeah, like all forty one minutes

1138
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: of Michael and Seth Riggs and yeah, man's that's what

1139
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: I do it too. But I didn't have any fear

1140
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: about being out front. I had no fear. I was like, okay,

1141
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 1: all right, well new surroundings. There we go.

1142
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 2: You know what was the best earth winding fire show ever?

1143
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 1: In your mind? Ah? Nothing beats this night.

1144
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 2: Well, I got to tell you. People still talk about

1145
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 2: the tubes the Tube Show. When the tubes would come down,

1146
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 2: it would be nine tubes, Yeah, and they would come down,

1147
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 2: they would light up, they would light up, they would

1148
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 2: light then they'd go dark, and when they lit up again,

1149
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,919
Speaker 2: we were inside the tubes and then the tubes would

1150
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 2: raise up. We'd come off stage and the exploding pyramid with.

1151
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 1: The robots, all of that. Those that the Tube Show

1152
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: was probably the greatest great show.

1153
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 2: So the seventy seven all in all, ye, all of.

1154
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 1: That in there.

1155
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 2: Yes, what is the best city for Earth Winding Fire

1156
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 2: to perform?

1157
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:53,479
Speaker 1: Like when you go there? Oh my god, I can't

1158
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 1: wait to go back.

1159
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 2: To get any cards and letters if I say the city?

1160
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: No, Okay, that's a that's a killer question because you

1161
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: don't have a favorite.

1162
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 2: But well, I'm I'm working on that right now, processing this, Okay.

1163
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 2: I gotta tell you I have a lot of great

1164
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 2: memories of Washington, d C. Well, yeah, chocolate that the

1165
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 2: Capital Center dates we did five nights in a row.

1166
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 2: Capital Center is no longer there. Ye. Look, man, anytime

1167
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 2: we play l A at the Hollywood Bowl, that's a thing.

1168
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:40,959
Speaker 1: Anytime we can play Madison Square Garden or Jones Beach,

1169
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 1: it's a cool thing here in New York. Got it?

1170
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 1: And then you know what, give me Royal Albert Hall

1171
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:52,919
Speaker 1: in London, Okay, and that we can.

1172
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 2: Those are some of my favorite places, okay for seventies

1173
01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 2: or from the Fire? Is there such thing as a

1174
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 2: struggle city even in the route? Hee day, I hated

1175
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 2: playing Miami in Vegas because.

1176
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 1: They just why did you hate to play Miami? In Vegas.

1177
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 1: I mean beautiful places to go to.

1178
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 2: I mean Miami is a beautiful place to go to,

1179
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 2: but we could not penetrate that market for the life

1180
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 2: of me. Even to this day. We might do Miami

1181
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 2: like maybe every other year. You couldn't penetrate it from

1182
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 2: a live standpoint or what we could. But like again,

1183
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 2: like DC has always supported us mainland because there's a

1184
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 2: radio station that literally caters to the music that we

1185
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 2: do and it's still.

1186
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: There, Howard University radioh.

1187
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 2: Whu R right know it will so thus the audience

1188
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 2: supports us.

1189
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: We really never hit it.

1190
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 2: There's something about Miami and their club culture that just

1191
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 2: never resonated with our natural, organic soul thing, despite them

1192
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 2: having Henry Stone's you know label legacy of funk music.

1193
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: There's no city that comes to mind that we ever

1194
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 1: had to struggle in Okay, anytime we hit that stage,

1195
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: by the time the show was over, we got them.

1196
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 1: And that's just a fact, got you, you know, we

1197
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 1: never had to struggle. There's no audience that comes to

1198
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 1: mind that we had to work at trying to pull. No.

1199
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: We just because Maurice used to say, look, don't worry

1200
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: about the audience. Keep the energy up here on the stage,

1201
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: that'll come and it would okay.

1202
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 2: So you know, there's a part of the film in

1203
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 2: which you guys talk very frankly and honestly about the

1204
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 2: infamous nineteen eighty three meeting in which Maurice disbanded the

1205
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 2: group and all of you had to go your separate

1206
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 2: ways and without warning kind of make a way for yourself.

1207
01:07:56,920 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 2: But however, like a year into it, you already start

1208
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 2: your life as a producer.

1209
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 1: Can you talk about like how long it.

1210
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 2: Took you to find your footing and to figure out

1211
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 2: what your next moves were going to be? Now that

1212
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 2: earth would fire, you know, for now, wasn't existing like

1213
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 2: when it was presented to you. Was it presented like

1214
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:30,960
Speaker 2: the band's over and no more? Or is it just

1215
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 2: like we're taking six months off and maybe I'll think

1216
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 2: about it next year. It was presented as we were

1217
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 2: taking a break and we didn't know if we were

1218
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:44,439
Speaker 2: ever going to get back together again. Maurice was about

1219
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 2: to do a solo record for CBS, and Philip was

1220
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:55,560
Speaker 2: doing his record samely with CBS. Yeah, Columbia with Phil Collins,

1221
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 2: and so you know, after we got the news Man,

1222
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 2: you had to really just because it was such a shock. See,

1223
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 2: it would be different, and I talk about this in

1224
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 2: the book.

1225
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 1: It would be it would be different if we had

1226
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 1: time to prepare for what was coming. Or Maurice had said, hey,

1227
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 1: guess what, Look a year from now, a year from now,

1228
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 1: six months, we're going to be doing a different thing. Okay, fine,

1229
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 1: but you just can't call a meeting, right meet me

1230
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: at the complex tomorrow, there's a meeting, and then get

1231
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 1: that kind of news man. So I had to figure

1232
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 1: some stuff out. What did you do for twenty four

1233
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: hours after that meeting? I just kind of sat around

1234
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:40,559
Speaker 1: and went, Wow, maybe he'll change his mind.

1235
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 2: Or No, I didn't know. No, I didn't think there

1236
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 2: was no I didn't think he would change his mind.

1237
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 1: I knew.

1238
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 2: I knew that was the plan and that is what

1239
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 2: was going to take place.

1240
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:52,759
Speaker 1: No. I just kind of sat there and said, Okay,

1241
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 1: I gotta how long did it take you before you realize,

1242
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 1: like this is real? And I got bills to and

1243
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:04,599
Speaker 1: all right, it did well, it didn't take long at all.

1244
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 1: I mean I had, you know, a family coming and

1245
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 1: uh so no, I had to jump into gear.

1246
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:17,879
Speaker 2: So not many people know that your RESPONSI will probably

1247
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 2: for like one of the I mean, yeah, I consider

1248
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 2: it sold to soul. Uh classic Temptations, But you pinned

1249
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 2: and produced treat Her Like a Lady. Well, I didn't

1250
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,639
Speaker 2: write it, Okay, wrote it. I was the lead singer

1251
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 2: at that time, who Rest in Peace is no longer

1252
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 2: with us. But Al McKay I was over at his house.

1253
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 1: He was living in a Lost Fielis area, Okay, and

1254
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 1: he said, Hey, I always call me Sleepy Slick. Want

1255
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: to help me go in the studio and do the Temptation.

1256
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 1: I thought he was joking, okay, because we were both

1257
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: Motown addicts, so you know anything, Moti, we were into it.

1258
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I'd love to, and sure enough, man,

1259
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: we went in the studio with the Temptations one of

1260
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 1: the best projects I've ever done in my life. It

1261
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:07,719
Speaker 1: was called Truly for You, and from that album came

1262
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 1: the hit single treated Actually Like a Lady and many

1263
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:15,799
Speaker 1: did that feel like? That was kind of surreal because

1264
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 1: while I was hearing Cheated Like a Lady on the radio,

1265
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 1: I was still working at this plumbing company, waiting to

1266
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:24,720
Speaker 1: get it together, to get pulled out of this thing

1267
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 1: I was in, you know, so that was kind of interesting.

1268
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,799
Speaker 1: And then at the same time I had a tune

1269
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:32,600
Speaker 1: on Philip.

1270
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:34,800
Speaker 2: Bailey's Chinese Wall album, which is the album that Phil

1271
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 2: Collins did. So I had these things, little things bubbling,

1272
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:43,719
Speaker 2: but it wasn't gonna be enough to like really make

1273
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 2: a major difference at that moment. So I had to

1274
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,880
Speaker 2: really figure some stuff out quickly and jump in and

1275
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:57,760
Speaker 2: engage you. You also wrote let Me Talk on Faces.

1276
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:03,280
Speaker 1: Yes I did, but I was hm, but I had

1277
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 1: a piece of it.

1278
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 2: How do you well, okay, so how does how can

1279
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 2: you elbow your way into the system? Like, as far

1280
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 2: as I'm concerned, Like Al McKay is the golden guy. Well, one,

1281
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 2: he has a guitarist, so if he does something melodic,

1282
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 2: it's very song and he would do that frequently.

1283
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 1: He would do that or something. Yeah, he would do that.

1284
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:29,679
Speaker 1: He would wait for dude, look, I saw it happen

1285
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 1: too many times and so we here we are sound

1286
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 1: check and now I was just like, would be like,

1287
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 1: what's that? What's that? Would you get look up? It's

1288
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 1: a song? Got you.

1289
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 2: So that's how for me it was different because I

1290
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 2: had to because I didn't play melodic instrument my way

1291
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:54,920
Speaker 2: in was going to be lyrically, so I would go

1292
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 2: to Maurice and I finally did on a tune called

1293
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 2: Welcome on the Heritage CD okay, and went to him.

1294
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:05,799
Speaker 2: I said, man, look, let's write, man, let's do some writing.

1295
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 2: He said, okay, Man, I got this tune right here,

1296
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:12,559
Speaker 2: and we work on Welcome okay. I only asked about

1297
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 2: let Me Talk because it's kind of weird that you

1298
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 2: don't often hear.

1299
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:22,439
Speaker 1: About.

1300
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:26,639
Speaker 2: Usually at the top of the decade, you might hear

1301
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 2: one or two references to, like for hip hop, like

1302
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 2: when the nineties were coming, they would say, oh, man,

1303
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:32,679
Speaker 2: it's the nineties.

1304
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 1: Is nineties.

1305
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 2: And the thing that I'm noticing about the Faces record

1306
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:41,680
Speaker 2: was and let Me talk. There were some wondering, you know,

1307
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:43,920
Speaker 2: there was thoughts in the air of what will the

1308
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:49,599
Speaker 2: eighties be, like, like will will this destroy? It's almost

1309
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 2: like you guys predicted what would happen to people in

1310
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 2: the eighties not knowing this, and you know, I saw

1311
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 2: it almost as almost as.

1312
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:02,839
Speaker 1: A prophetic, fetic kind of thing. Yeah yeah, and wondered,

1313
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:07,560
Speaker 1: how well it's not. It wasn't something that was intentional.

1314
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, when you write, you're not editing.

1315
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 1: When you write, you're just writing right, you know. And

1316
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 1: so that's the way that lyric turned out. And if

1317
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:22,800
Speaker 1: it is or was somewhat prophetic, then that's the way

1318
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be.

1319
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 2: Were you shocked that another client of yours, Bobby Glenn?

1320
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 2: Bobby Glenn, Were you shocked at how twenty years later,

1321
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 2: really thirty years later, on jay Z's the Blueprint album,

1322
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 2: that Yeah came back to life. Song Cry sounds like

1323
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:47,759
Speaker 2: a love song, sounds like the intro of song Cry

1324
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 2: is Bobby Glenn's. Were you shocked at all that that

1325
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 2: had another lease on life?

1326
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 1: Man? Man, man, I got a phone call and I

1327
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 1: pick up the phone and the personally and goes, are

1328
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:02,759
Speaker 1: you Ralph john says yeah, I'm Ralph Johnson.

1329
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 2: He said, well you've been sampled. He cut right to

1330
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 2: the chase, Hea, You've been sampled. I was like, oh, okay, cool.

1331
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 2: I'm like, so who sampled me? He said, jay Z?

1332
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:23,360
Speaker 2: I thought he was dude, I was, I said, so

1333
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:27,559
Speaker 2: what I said? I said, D jay Z? He said yes,

1334
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 2: D jay Z.

1335
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 1: I said, well, let me give you my my manager's

1336
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:34,080
Speaker 1: number and take care of the biz. And man, after

1337
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 1: jay Z did it, Keisha Cole did the same sample.

1338
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:43,599
Speaker 1: Frake did the same sample. The biggest most successful sample

1339
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:51,040
Speaker 1: was Queen Nija with Big Sean Damn. Yeah.

1340
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got an award from ASCAP for that and

1341
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 2: I was like, what nice?

1342
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: You know? And so that was quite a moment because

1343
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:03,960
Speaker 1: that that.

1344
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:08,240
Speaker 2: Tune continues to generate. Yeah, we still get phone calls.

1345
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 2: People are like, okay, we want to use that. Yeah,

1346
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:11,799
Speaker 2: go right ahead.

1347
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 1: You know sometimes you can't call it. No, you can't

1348
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 1: call it. I never thought i'd be sample. Are you

1349
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,559
Speaker 1: How did he find that? It was in a ben

1350
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:24,679
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn? Yes, that's how. The label was some obscure label.

1351
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 1: It was called Koala Records.

1352
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:32,719
Speaker 2: What yes, But even with I forgot about Shelton Kilby.

1353
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 1: When did you work with Shelton Kilby? What do you

1354
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 1: know about Sheldon Kilby? Yes?

1355
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean look, you know what you know? Sheldon

1356
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:42,680
Speaker 2: was a dentist. He was a dentist and he had

1357
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:46,840
Speaker 2: a record. I think it was called BG Records. I think, okay, man,

1358
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 2: what how'd you even find out about him?

1359
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 1: Where'd you run across at? Do you know who I am? Well,

1360
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:54,719
Speaker 1: now I do, dude.

1361
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:57,559
Speaker 2: You trusted me to tell your story, this guy right

1362
01:16:57,600 --> 01:16:59,519
Speaker 2: here quest love.

1363
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 1: No man There's were there any other projects?

1364
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 2: Like how does Well? I always wanted to know how

1365
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 2: Verdin hooked up with Pockets. But when Klimba Records is forming, yes, like,

1366
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 2: are you guys giving a chance to say, hey, here's

1367
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:16,040
Speaker 2: this songwriter.

1368
01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:19,439
Speaker 1: Well, if you had something you could bring Maurice that

1369
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:24,680
Speaker 1: made sense, he would do it. At that time, I

1370
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,679
Speaker 1: didn't have anything I could bring him that would make sense.

1371
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 1: So got it. That was that.

1372
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:33,800
Speaker 2: But to answer your question about like not knowing when

1373
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:40,040
Speaker 2: a song will bloom something unexpected surprises, I mean, you

1374
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:43,799
Speaker 2: know you're living that in real life, in real time

1375
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 2: with September, Like with you guys and with Run DMC,

1376
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:56,840
Speaker 2: I kind of laugh at how both groups have legacy

1377
01:17:56,920 --> 01:18:01,200
Speaker 2: songs like Shining Star is a legacy song, seventeen fires

1378
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 2: of the fantasy, Like we could name at least ten

1379
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,400
Speaker 2: legacy songs. Same with Run DMC, Walk this Way it

1380
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,559
Speaker 2: was important for history, Like there's like at least five

1381
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 2: to six historical songs. But when the smoke clears for

1382
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:20,599
Speaker 2: Run DMC, probably when all said and done, it's Tricky

1383
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 2: might be there.

1384
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 1: It's Tricky's there.

1385
01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:27,280
Speaker 2: September, it's like no one called it, no one said

1386
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:29,200
Speaker 2: this is going to be the song that will be

1387
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:32,639
Speaker 2: known for right, because you don't know how weirded out

1388
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 2: were you that suddenly like September just got a whole

1389
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:37,679
Speaker 2: new lease of life out of nowhere.

1390
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:42,679
Speaker 1: I wasn't saying I wouldn't say I was weirded out. Look,

1391
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:46,640
Speaker 1: all these songs are like your kids, y'or your children,

1392
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:51,480
Speaker 1: and so if being the parent you are, if they're successful,

1393
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:55,000
Speaker 1: you're happy. So Man, as it turns out, September Man

1394
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 1: is one of the most played, one of the most

1395
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 1: downloaded stream songs on the planet Earth.

1396
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:04,360
Speaker 2: We're happy about that, and I'm sure the writers and

1397
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:05,560
Speaker 2: publishers are happy.

1398
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:07,880
Speaker 1: To shout out the ol.

1399
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 2: How cathartic was it to finally get to tell your

1400
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 2: story in your life and whatnot? Like how healing was it?

1401
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 2: Like what did you find out about yourself that you did?

1402
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 2: Because I think if if you're making history, you don't

1403
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:37,200
Speaker 2: come outside yourself to look at it like you're just

1404
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 2: living it. And you know, what might be a life

1405
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:42,800
Speaker 2: changing concert for me might just be a Thursday and

1406
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:47,040
Speaker 2: Phoenix for you. See, So that gets into the question

1407
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:52,760
Speaker 2: of why write the book, Why now why write the

1408
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 2: book then? And I always answer that question with a

1409
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:56,599
Speaker 2: question why not?

1410
01:19:56,680 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 1: Now? See, it's one of those things that it happens

1411
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:04,680
Speaker 1: in the spirit first gotcha, you wake up and go man,

1412
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:07,000
Speaker 1: you know, I think maybe it's time for me to

1413
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:10,519
Speaker 1: tell my story. And that's that's what happened. That's what

1414
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:12,680
Speaker 1: happened with the book. I just woke up one day

1415
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:14,920
Speaker 1: and said, you know what, I'm doing this. I want

1416
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 1: to leave this behind and I want to share my

1417
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 1: story and I hope that people find it interesting.

1418
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:24,960
Speaker 2: What do you do outside of earthwood and fire that

1419
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 2: still gives you pleasure creatively? I know about your your

1420
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:33,680
Speaker 2: foray into uh being a jazz DJ and on your

1421
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:38,040
Speaker 2: radio station and whatnot, But what other things?

1422
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:41,240
Speaker 1: What other creative mediums are you into? You? Well, I'm

1423
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:44,639
Speaker 1: are you a good chef? Well? Now see, I wasn't

1424
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 1: going to go there. But on the creative side, I

1425
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:53,760
Speaker 1: love to get in the kitchen a cook. Okay. I

1426
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 1: derive an extreme amount of pleasure from visiting art galleries

1427
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:01,080
Speaker 1: because I collect art.

1428
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 2: Nice Okay, My wife and I have been collecting since

1429
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:06,200
Speaker 2: seventy eight.

1430
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:11,800
Speaker 1: Nice. Yeah, so we any notable pieces that you own?

1431
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 1: I just recently added to the collection a Salvador Dolli,

1432
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:19,880
Speaker 1: which comes, Oh you're a serious art collector. Oh no,

1433
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 1: I've got I've got a couple of things you might

1434
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 1: find interesting. Interesting, but no, no, no, this, this Savado

1435
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:30,800
Speaker 1: dollar piece comes has what we call provenance. And when

1436
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 1: you hear that term in the art world, yes, it

1437
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 1: means chain of ownership. You know where it's who owned

1438
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 1: it before you. And this Salvado dollar piece comes from

1439
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:46,520
Speaker 1: the private collection of Pierre Argalais, who was Dolly's publisher

1440
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:49,840
Speaker 1: starting in nineteen fifty nine for thirty years. So it

1441
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:52,040
Speaker 1: does have provenance. It's a very important piece.

1442
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 2: I just started my art collecting game, like maybe for

1443
01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 2: first of a sneakers and I got bored and well,

1444
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 2: really it was a record. It was always records, then

1445
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:05,639
Speaker 2: it was sneakers, and now I just you know, it's

1446
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:08,439
Speaker 2: like your pockets always burning. You gotta you gotta do something.

1447
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 2: So so what do you So you've started in the

1448
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:15,719
Speaker 2: art game. Yeah, I'm starting on. I have some notable pieces,

1449
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 2: mostly though I'd like to collect work of fellow peers

1450
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:24,920
Speaker 2: of mine. Yes, George Clinton has made me four amazing

1451
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 2: pieces of.

1452
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:29,000
Speaker 1: Just afro futurist art.

1453
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 2: George paints, Oh my god, in a way that you

1454
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:35,559
Speaker 2: wouldn't believe. Yes, George. Oh see, George's stuff is on

1455
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 2: and I've kept it quiet. Like when I do my

1456
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:42,600
Speaker 2: art stuff, I don't brag because also aforementioned.

1457
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 1: Uh or whatever.

1458
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, hove and and swizz right, Yes, that's they're collecting

1459
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 2: a whole another level, dude. Yeah, if they find a

1460
01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:52,960
Speaker 2: new artist, then the price goes up, everything on a

1461
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:53,760
Speaker 2: whole other level.

1462
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:54,000
Speaker 1: Right.

1463
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:56,960
Speaker 2: So I that's that's the one thing I never brag

1464
01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:59,640
Speaker 2: about because where can I see George Clinton stuff does

1465
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:00,240
Speaker 2: the online?

1466
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:03,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's stuff is definitely online. But check him out. Man,

1467
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:04,920
Speaker 1: I didn't know he painted during the pandemic.

1468
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:08,519
Speaker 2: He started putting these pieces up and they're really really good,

1469
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:12,559
Speaker 2: and I snagged about four of them. Well, my collection

1470
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:14,840
Speaker 2: of art is very collected, and that it's not just

1471
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 2: graphics on the wall, it's art, pottery.

1472
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 1: M h.

1473
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:23,760
Speaker 2: It's the books, yes, like the Chagall lithograph books you collected.

1474
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 1: Wow? Oh oh no, no see see look let me say,

1475
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 1: let me just say this, if you come to my

1476
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:31,280
Speaker 1: crib next time you're in La Okay, I know you're

1477
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:36,800
Speaker 1: a busy man, Yes, come by my crib and just collection. Nice.

1478
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:41,639
Speaker 1: It's African sculpture too. It's a it's a whole thing. Okay,

1479
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 1: it's a whole thing. I'm telling you.

1480
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 2: Of any artifacts that you've collected, and you know I'm

1481
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:57,599
Speaker 2: I'm a pop culture collector. I've collected lunchboxes, records, posters,

1482
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 2: old magazines like I have a smith Sony in inside

1483
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 2: my crib.

1484
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:02,280
Speaker 1: I love it.

1485
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:06,960
Speaker 2: What are the three things that you've that you've collected

1486
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:11,760
Speaker 2: that like, really, I don't know if anything's stopping Salvador,

1487
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:16,719
Speaker 2: but I'm just saying within the collection, yes, or because

1488
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 2: I have other things that I collect by that's what

1489
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:19,960
Speaker 2: I meant.

1490
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:24,479
Speaker 1: Because I collect knives. What is it about knives? Just

1491
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 1: the design? Okay from Japan. I collect folders, so they're

1492
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 1: not fixed blades, Okay, they're folders. The blade comes out.

1493
01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:35,280
Speaker 1: Collect knives.

1494
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:39,160
Speaker 2: You're just reminding me right now. Wow, this is a

1495
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:40,920
Speaker 2: hell of a way for this audience to find out.

1496
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 2: For Serik's fiftyeth my partner in the group Black Thought,

1497
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:51,559
Speaker 2: for his fiftieth birthday, I went out and got him

1498
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 2: an illustrious like we're having to be in Japan and

1499
01:24:56,960 --> 01:25:00,360
Speaker 2: happened to go buy this I mean, I don't know

1500
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:03,880
Speaker 2: if it's.

1501
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:07,880
Speaker 1: It's it's the top level knife collection, and I forgot

1502
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 1: to give it time. No, I'm world famous for what

1503
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:16,400
Speaker 1: kind of bullsh right?

1504
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:22,040
Speaker 2: And no, I'm world famous for like collecting and buying things.

1505
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:24,120
Speaker 2: And then I get home, you know when you get

1506
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 2: home on tour. So does he collect knives or swords

1507
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 2: or stuff? Is this what's he loves to cook? Like

1508
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 2: cooking is his thing?

1509
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:34,160
Speaker 1: Oh? Really he cooks.

1510
01:25:34,439 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 2: People often laugh at me when I say he cooks

1511
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:40,160
Speaker 2: better than he raps. That should tell you how good

1512
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:43,640
Speaker 2: of a cookie is. Like he's I will put him

1513
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 2: against any Michelan chef, any grandmom. No, teris literally the

1514
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:55,320
Speaker 2: best chef ever. And so all right, what have you

1515
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 2: had that he cooked that just knocked you out?

1516
01:25:57,439 --> 01:25:59,040
Speaker 1: You were like, man, I don't believe you did. This

1517
01:25:59,240 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: is crap?

1518
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:03,760
Speaker 2: Are Like Terka's the person that will and I think

1519
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,719
Speaker 2: it's again it's a cathartic act for him, Like Hill's

1520
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 2: two in the morning, He'll simmer his beef Wellington or

1521
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 2: whatever on a low thing and then come back four

1522
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:18,320
Speaker 2: hours later and it's still He'll add the right red

1523
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:21,280
Speaker 2: wine to the thing like he is the East top level,

1524
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 2: like that is that is his thing, but yeah, his

1525
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 2: his work with seafood is world famous. Well, you'll have

1526
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:32,280
Speaker 2: to have some of my lasagna. Hey, I will gladly

1527
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 2: gladly particular. Look, I just want to tell you that

1528
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 2: probably of all the projects I've done with film, that

1529
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 2: this one well number one.

1530
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:45,720
Speaker 1: This one's going to.

1531
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:50,799
Speaker 2: Stick with me the most because of the method acting,

1532
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 2: kind of entry I had to do in the film.

1533
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:55,439
Speaker 2: Like I felt like in order to tell this film,

1534
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:56,920
Speaker 2: I had to become you guys.

1535
01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:58,759
Speaker 1: So I spent.

1536
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:05,120
Speaker 2: Literally just seven months, like, oh, I've read every book.

1537
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:07,599
Speaker 2: I was like, I went to Lebron and said, look,

1538
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 2: every book your father ever read, give me a list.

1539
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:14,200
Speaker 2: I found out what you all did, like I needed

1540
01:27:14,200 --> 01:27:15,960
Speaker 2: to become a member of Earth Wind and Fire.

1541
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 1: Did you read any Napoleon Hill? Yeah? Oh absolutely.

1542
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:24,519
Speaker 2: To this day, I meditate, I do affirmations, I all

1543
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 2: those things like this. This particular platform is tired of

1544
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:34,240
Speaker 2: me talking about how much I've done that, But no,

1545
01:27:34,439 --> 01:27:39,519
Speaker 2: this actually saved my life, like I injured it really

1546
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:42,000
Speaker 2: just like wanting to get to the master reels, like okay,

1547
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 2: now I got to do this project. I get to

1548
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 2: go to Sony and go through all the stems and

1549
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:49,320
Speaker 2: hear the isolated drums and stuff. And I did, but

1550
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:54,720
Speaker 2: really in order to understand you guys, because you know,

1551
01:27:55,520 --> 01:28:02,080
Speaker 2: you might be familiar with how particular a certain sect

1552
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:05,280
Speaker 2: of black folk are when it comes to their spirituality.

1553
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:09,800
Speaker 1: And if you're not really nailing Christianity.

1554
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 2: As fire and Brimstone as we knew it, then it's like,

1555
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 2: and I grew up in a kind of.

1556
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 1: Household.

1557
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:19,880
Speaker 2: When it came to Earth, Wind and Fire album covers,

1558
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:24,920
Speaker 2: where's that sign? I don't know that about that. I

1559
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:28,040
Speaker 2: like the songs, but you know, the all known album

1560
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:31,799
Speaker 2: cover has been debated by many ever and aunt.

1561
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:33,719
Speaker 1: Man, look are you kidding? Right?

1562
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 2: And so one thing I wanted to do was just

1563
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:41,559
Speaker 2: to spell cause again they were like that, don't look

1564
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:44,280
Speaker 2: like that's Christian, Like that might be demonic, you know.

1565
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 2: And finally, understanding where you guys are coming from is

1566
01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:52,000
Speaker 2: probably the most life changing.

1567
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:54,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, this actually did change my life.

1568
01:28:54,120 --> 01:28:59,120
Speaker 2: So I appreciate you one sharing your story to allowing

1569
01:28:59,160 --> 01:29:02,080
Speaker 2: me for the last two years to tell this story

1570
01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:05,200
Speaker 2: because really I want what I want people to take

1571
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:10,240
Speaker 2: away from this is to dream in the most impossible

1572
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 2: time periods ever and we're in twenty twenty six.

1573
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:15,720
Speaker 1: It can't get no more impossible than this.

1574
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:19,360
Speaker 2: So this is the time where we plant seeds and

1575
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:22,640
Speaker 2: establish what our future should be. And you're part of

1576
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:24,479
Speaker 2: that story. And I thank you for coming on, man,

1577
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:26,479
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. Man, Thank you, Man. I

1578
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:29,040
Speaker 2: didn't know we were finished. I had some more to say.

1579
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 2: Oh I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

1580
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:35,080
Speaker 1: John, Thank you.

1581
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:37,360
Speaker 2: I appreciate you coming, thank you, thank you for having

1582
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:39,240
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you all right, thank you next time.

1583
01:29:39,320 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 1: Y'a'll see you. Yes.

1584
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:48,080
Speaker 2: Quest Love Shows hosted by Me Mira Quest Loft Thompson.

1585
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:52,840
Speaker 2: The executive producers are Sean g Brian Calhoun and Me.

1586
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:59,840
Speaker 2: Produced by Britney Benjamin and Jacob Payne. Produced for Ihearten

1587
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:05,280
Speaker 2: by an Old Brown, Edited by Alex Convoy. iHeart Video

1588
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 2: support by Mark Canton, Logos Graphics and animation by Nick Lowe.

1589
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:17,759
Speaker 2: Additional support by Lance Core. Special thanks to Kathy Brown.

1590
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:23,680
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe, rate, me,

1591
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 2: view and share the Quest Love Show wherever. Stream your

1592
01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:30,839
Speaker 2: podcast to make sure you follow us on socials That's

1593
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:33,000
Speaker 2: at q LS.

1594
01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:38,480
Speaker 1: Check out hundreds and hundreds of QLs episodes. Including the Quest.

1595
01:30:38,200 --> 01:30:43,840
Speaker 2: Love Supreme shows in our podcast archives. Quest Love Show

1596
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:45,719
Speaker 2: is a production of iHeart Radio