Speaker 1: Cool Media. Welcome to it could happen here, the show
Speaker 1: about Things Falling Apart. I'm Garrison Davis and I'm joined
Speaker 1: today by a special guest host, Richard's Todd. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to the show.
Speaker 2: Ah, thank you so much for having me. I am
Speaker 2: completely excited to be here. I am a listener of
Speaker 2: the show, so it feels like getting to be on
Speaker 2: a show that I actually freak out too often.
Speaker 1: And I'm very excited for you to be here because
Speaker 1: you have a special report on one of the people
Speaker 1: who I've been cyberstalking for years, and I'm very excited
Speaker 1: to hear the details of what she's been up to
Speaker 1: these past few weeks. I kind of know the rough
Speaker 1: overview because again because of my cyberstalking, but I've not
Speaker 1: done a deep dive the way you have, so I'm
Speaker 1: very excited to hear an update on this on this character.
Speaker 2: So it sounds like we are in a similar place
Speaker 2: when it comes to this person, and this person is
Speaker 2: none other than Candice Owens. First of all, what are
Speaker 2: her thoughts on her? Because I am low key fascinated
Speaker 2: with her. I follow her on social media, I watch
Speaker 2: her videos like I am.
Speaker 3: Like weirdly captivated by her.
Speaker 1: I mean I've I've covered her mostly through her involvement
Speaker 1: with Daily Wire. I've talked a little bit about kind
Speaker 1: of how that'll fell apart, you know, like a year
Speaker 1: and a half ago or so. I've talked a little
Speaker 1: bit about her involvement in Turning Point USA with Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 1: And she's just kind of been one of like these
Speaker 1: like randomly, you know, like like orbiters of like the
Speaker 1: online like right wing content sphere for like I don't know,
Speaker 1: the past six years at least, and I typically focus
Speaker 1: more on like you know, like the Ben Shapiro's, the
Speaker 1: Matt Walsh's, you know, back in the day, the Stephen
Speaker 1: Crowders and stuff. But Cannis was always just like around
Speaker 1: and like she definitely like went after a different demographic
Speaker 1: than what like my usual focuses, right, Like I'm focused
Speaker 1: on like what's going on with straight white men, Like
Speaker 1: why why are they like this? And who who is
Speaker 1: targeting them? You know, and that's you know, that's like
Speaker 1: the Matt Walsh, Stephen Crowder kind of angle. Like Candace
Speaker 1: Owens has like a kind of a broader net that
Speaker 1: she targets with her content, So like she's always kind
Speaker 1: of come up as like a side character. I don't
Speaker 1: think I've ever done like a distinct focus on her
Speaker 1: before besides just you know whatever kind of crazy post
Speaker 1: or like you know, anti trans or like very like
Speaker 1: weird like racist rank that she goes on like every
Speaker 1: once in a while.
Speaker 2: Yes, so there is so much to talk about when
Speaker 2: it comes to Candace Owens. I'm sort of like you,
Speaker 2: like I sort of saw her as a side character,
Speaker 2: but only recently have I realized, like, oh, people in
Speaker 2: my life are listening to Candace Owens and citing Candace
Speaker 2: Owens and they have no idea any about her, anything
Speaker 2: about her backstory.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all the stuff that you that you were just
Speaker 3: talking about.
Speaker 1: She's like reinvented herself like multiple times. And you know,
Speaker 1: some people who mainly come at this from like the
Speaker 1: anti fascist research perspective might not be aware of her
Speaker 1: like latest rebrand, which is what I'm excited to hear
Speaker 1: about today. Yes, I just remembered how she had that
Speaker 1: whole event with Kanye when she did to her like
Speaker 1: BLM documentary that was a whole other Candace era. Yeah
Speaker 1: so much, My.
Speaker 2: God, I have to say I was like low key
Speaker 2: embarrassed for her because like during her Kanye West era,
Speaker 2: she was like, Kanye West designed the Katore outfits for
Speaker 2: my Blexit movement, and Kanye West was like, no, I
Speaker 2: fucking didn't, And like I was like, Oh, They're so
Speaker 2: embarrassing that you like that, you like publicly aligned yourself
Speaker 2: with Kanye West, only for him to basically like diss
Speaker 2: you publicly right after yeah.
Speaker 1: And then come out as like an explicit neo Nazi
Speaker 1: like two weeks later.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, uh, Candace girl.
Speaker 2: So I want to talk about her, like, I don't
Speaker 2: want to spend too much time on her background, but
Speaker 2: there are some pieces that I think like are good
Speaker 2: for understanding kind of who she is, this chameleon figure
Speaker 2: that she's been totally If there is not like a
Speaker 2: behind the bastard's on her, do you know, if there is,
Speaker 2: there should be If there's not not.
Speaker 1: Yet, Like similarly on Bastards, she's been one of one
Speaker 1: of these like recurring characters. Oh my god, but she
Speaker 1: she is had a distinct focus.
Speaker 2: Robert Evans, get on it, because we need the Candace
Speaker 2: Owens behind the bastard. So Candicce grew up in Stanford, Connecticut.
Speaker 2: While she was a student there, she went through this
Speaker 2: horrible sounding racial harassment. A classmate left her like this
Speaker 2: racist death threat on her voicemail. That turned into like
Speaker 2: a pretty serious local scandal because it turned out the
Speaker 2: student who made that threat via voicemail.
Speaker 3: Did so in a car with a group of.
Speaker 2: Students that included the sun of the then mayor and
Speaker 2: then future Democratic governor of Connecticut, Daniel molloy. So she
Speaker 2: got tons of support from the local chapter of the NAACP,
Speaker 2: and her family ended up suing the Stamford Board of
Speaker 2: Education in federal court for failing to protect her rights,
Speaker 2: resulting in a thirty seven thousand, five hundred dollars settlement.
Speaker 2: She went on the studied journalism at University of Rhode
Speaker 2: Island before dropping out.
Speaker 1: This is like the early two thousands.
Speaker 2: Yes, this was like young like baby Candace high school
Speaker 2: Candace before she was the Candace Owen that we you
Speaker 2: know today. Yeah, so I sort of like almost see
Speaker 2: a little bit of myself and where she got her
Speaker 2: start like me. She was an early adopter of using
Speaker 2: the Internet to talk about things like race and politics
Speaker 2: like me. That also seemed to sort of manifest in
Speaker 2: a lot of like low hanging fruit shit posts on
Speaker 2: the early days of blogging, Like in twenty fifteen, she
Speaker 2: was writing blogs making fun of Trump's penis size.
Speaker 1: Sure, many such cases.
Speaker 3: Yes, many such cases.
Speaker 2: So in twenty fifteen, Owens is running a blog called
Speaker 2: Degree one eighty where she wrote pieces criticizing conservative Republicans,
Speaker 2: writing about the quote that shit crazy antics of the
Speaker 2: Republican tea Party. The good news is they will eventually
Speaker 2: die off peacefully and in their sleep, we hope, and
Speaker 2: then we can get right on with the obvious social
Speaker 2: change that needs to happen immediately, she wrote on her blog.
Speaker 2: So back then she was really someone who had like
Speaker 2: a progressive point of view and was doing a lot
Speaker 2: of public writing about what she was saying and experiencing
Speaker 2: in politics at the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, this is something that I guess some people might
Speaker 1: not know if they've only like become aware of her
Speaker 1: through daily wires. Yeah, Like in the pre twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: like BuzzFeed internet kind of sphere, she was just like
Speaker 1: one of like these people who would yeah, have like
Speaker 1: like you know, progressive like ish takes, criticize embarrassing like politicians,
Speaker 1: and like overtly racist stuff happening, and then the degree
Speaker 1: to which this this like heel turn happens is like
Speaker 1: one of the most stark examples I've seen in like
Speaker 1: a I don't know, I'm trying to think of it.
Speaker 1: If there's like any like exact parallel, I don't know,
Speaker 1: Like there's like certainly some like detransition, like a grifters.
Speaker 1: There used to be like ex gay influencers or you
Speaker 1: know this like like proto influencers kind of before influencers
Speaker 1: were a thing, like ex gay speakers. But yeah, the
Speaker 1: switch around on Candace from these blog posts is so concentrated.
Speaker 2: So in her own words she describes it as happening,
Speaker 2: Oh there you go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how it happened is like fascinating to me.
Speaker 2: So in twenty sixteen, when Gamergate was in full swing,
Speaker 2: Owen's launched a Kickstarter for a project called Social Autopsy,
Speaker 2: which she described as a way to catalog the abuses
Speaker 2: of trolls and cyberbullies. Fun fact that Kickstarter is still
Speaker 2: up today. It is such a weird time capsule of
Speaker 2: a different time. There's like a video of her speaking
Speaker 2: earnestly about the need to like have the internet be
Speaker 2: a like safer, more equitable landscape.
Speaker 3: It is nuts, like.
Speaker 2: People should go listen to her speaking about this project.
Speaker 2: So the plan for this project was essentially that she
Speaker 2: would create a way to de anonymize online commentators and
Speaker 2: then connect them with like their real names and their
Speaker 2: real life employers. And what's so funny is that, like
Speaker 2: that is the very same argument that a lot of
Speaker 2: people use, people who like want to restrict the open
Speaker 2: Internet still use today that like problems on the Internet
Speaker 2: online harassment and abuse would all be improved if only
Speaker 2: everybody had to use their government idea and government names
Speaker 2: to access the Internet. And so like it's very funny
Speaker 2: that that idea it was bad then, and it didn't
Speaker 2: really die, it was just recycled into today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like there's a version of this that happens,
Speaker 1: or at least it kind of used to happen more
Speaker 1: in regards to like anti fascist research, where like you're
Speaker 1: like identify specific like extremely racist accounts or like explicit
Speaker 1: neo Nazis and contact their employer in an attempt to
Speaker 1: get to get them fired so they can focus on
Speaker 1: getting a new job and supporting themselves rather than doing
Speaker 1: racism online and in person, if especially if he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, a member of like a group, whether that
Speaker 1: be you know, the Proud Boys back in the day
Speaker 1: or many many other groups, Patriot Prayer now, Patriot Front,
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. It's funny how hated this tactic
Speaker 1: is soon to be by people like Candice and the
Speaker 1: Daily Wire people. But here she's advocating it herself exactly,
Speaker 1: and they just like post Anita Sarkisian kind of content
Speaker 1: like world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so pretty much everybody thought this was a bad idea,
Speaker 2: including video game developer Zoe Quinn, who folks might remember
Speaker 2: was kind of at the center of Gamergate and was
Speaker 2: like viciously attacked. Owens was subsequently harassed and docs and
Speaker 2: she blamed Zoe Quinn and other feminists for this and
Speaker 2: said so publicly as you can probably guess, like people
Speaker 2: like Milo Gyanopolis loved this.
Speaker 3: People who were promoters of.
Speaker 2: Gamergate really hyped up Owens's claims that like, yes, feminists
Speaker 2: were actually the ones doing all the online harassing.
Speaker 1: Okay, I can see where this is going.
Speaker 2: So this event is what Owen's credits with her turn
Speaker 2: from progressive to quote becoming a red pilled radical. She says,
Speaker 2: I became a conservative overnight. I realized that liberals were
Speaker 2: actually the racists. Liberals were actually the trolls. She starts
Speaker 2: promoting right wing viewpoints on her YouTube channel, calling herself
Speaker 2: quote red pilled black, which I gotta say is like
Speaker 2: pretty good branding.
Speaker 3: Like I'm I'm mad at the branding there.
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, black woman talking about like right
Speaker 2: wing stuff, red pill black.
Speaker 3: I get it. I get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm interested to see how much how much the
Speaker 1: checkbook was a consideration here? Oh yes, how much her
Speaker 1: Kickstarter god versus how much she realized she could get
Speaker 1: if she jumped on the other side of the content churn.
Speaker 2: Well, she almost instantly gets noticed by Charlie Kirk, founder
Speaker 2: of Turning Points USA Right, and he hires her almost immediately.
Speaker 2: She starts cranking out these videos that really perform quite well,
Speaker 2: that her videos really go viral. Videos where she's doing
Speaker 2: things like dismissing the twenty seventeen White supremacist Unite the
Speaker 2: Right rally in Charlottesville. Alex Jones gets her to co
Speaker 2: host some of his info war shows. She's doing stints
Speaker 2: on Fox News as a paid commentator, like business is
Speaker 2: booming for Candice Owens from this turn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is around when I became aware of her.
Speaker 2: Yes, in twenty twenty one, she joins up with the
Speaker 2: Daily Wire. There was so much fanfare around them higher Candace,
Speaker 2: like it was a big deal she moved to Nashville. Yeah,
Speaker 2: fun fact, there was even a House joint resolution House
Speaker 2: Joint Resolution three fifty, a resolution in the Tennessee government
Speaker 2: to congratulate Candace Owens are relocating to Tennessee and for
Speaker 2: her work at Daily Wired. That reads whereas Miss Owens
Speaker 2: has earned the admiration and respect of millions of Americans
Speaker 2: through her activism in support of President Trump as a
Speaker 2: black woman and her perceptive criticism of creeping socialism and
Speaker 2: leftist political tyranny.
Speaker 1: Very cool stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine it being like a joint resolution in your
Speaker 2: local government when you move someplace.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Governor of Tennessee was like super excited when the
Speaker 1: Daily Wire relocated their headquarters to Tennessee and brought in
Speaker 1: all these people. Like there was there was like so
Speaker 1: many like private dinners meetings. There was like a like
Speaker 1: a number of resolutions welcoming the Daily Wire to Tennessee.
Speaker 1: In this like twenty twenty one period as they were
Speaker 1: just starting to like launch their own extreming service website,
Speaker 1: which is why they recruited Candace is because they were
Speaker 1: looking for content creators to fill out their slate.
Speaker 2: So you would think that this should be like a
Speaker 2: match made in heaven, right, smooth sailing. They need insidiary
Speaker 2: content creators. She's an insidiary content creator. Should be a
Speaker 2: match made in heaven. Perfect Not quite, because things end
Speaker 2: in like this really messy public fallout just a few
Speaker 2: years later. So I know that you've done episodes on
Speaker 2: this from my perspective, and I would love to know
Speaker 2: what you think. It's not one hundred percent clear what
Speaker 2: went down, but the public friction between Candace Owens and
Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro, one of the founders of Daily Wire, it
Speaker 2: seemed to be like related to reactions around the situation
Speaker 2: in Gaza.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally so.
Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro is Jewish and Owens, as we said, has
Speaker 2: said and done like a lot of anti Semitic stuff,
Speaker 2: like a lot and.
Speaker 1: Like actual Adesemitic stuff like that people use that as
Speaker 1: a way to like shut down like very very admirable,
Speaker 1: like like like Propelstinian like activism. No, like Canda owns
Speaker 1: just is anti semitic, and this it's like the same
Speaker 1: thing with like Jackson Hinkel, and she made it like
Speaker 1: an escalating series of anti semitic claims after October seventh,
Speaker 1: which which slowly kind of like broke with the company
Speaker 1: and ben like more and more and more of over
Speaker 1: series of a few months. Yes, and it's it's it's
Speaker 1: funny because like it also kind of mirrors this like
Speaker 1: online fight she had with Stephen Crowder like a year
Speaker 1: or so prior when Daily Wire was trying to recruit him,
Speaker 1: and then she got informed about like how like abusive
Speaker 1: he was to his wife, and then she went on
Speaker 1: like a media blitz like against him as like as
Speaker 1: he was in negotiations like with the Daily Wire. She's
Speaker 1: like very willing to like stir shit up, like even
Speaker 1: if it like goes against her own interests or the
Speaker 1: interests of like whatever company she works for, Like she
Speaker 1: is she is absolutely willing to like make like some
Speaker 1: kind of like chaotic spectacle regardless of her own like
Speaker 1: you know, financial security.
Speaker 2: I guess yes, like she I'm so glad that you
Speaker 2: mentioned that she is not afraid to get down and
Speaker 2: dirty in public and I do think, like, you know,
Speaker 2: as a black woman who works with a lot of
Speaker 2: white men, I would imagine that she's probably thinking, like,
Speaker 2: I have to have some kind of decorum. I don't
Speaker 2: want anyone to say that I'm being a crazy black
Speaker 2: woman or whatever.
Speaker 3: She's it seems like she has no such qualms.
Speaker 2: Like she is like I will, I will make this
Speaker 2: a public, messy fight, and I am not afraid to
Speaker 2: make a genuine spectacle of myself. Yeah, and so it
Speaker 2: is really important to note that, like, as you said,
Speaker 2: she wasn't just like criticizing the Israeli States. She was
Speaker 2: like getting into like blood lible and like deep conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it was. There was some really nasty posts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like one of the things that she said, she's
Speaker 2: claimed that Judaism was quote a pedophile centric religion that
Speaker 2: believes in demons and child sacrifice, and that she was
Speaker 2: waking people up to the fact that pedophiles are in power, like.
Speaker 3: Stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Not great, not good, not good.
Speaker 2: So, as you said, like this starts to become like
Speaker 2: a public feud toward her employer. She wrote on Twitter,
Speaker 2: no one can serve two masters, and ended her post
Speaker 2: writing you cannot serve both God and money, which Ben Shapiro,
Speaker 2: her boss, tweets like quote tweeted, oh my god, Like, Candice,
Speaker 2: if you feel that taking money from the Daily Wire
Speaker 2: somehow that comes between you and God, by all means quit,
Speaker 2: Like messy is there.
Speaker 1: It's crazy that instead of having like a company meeting,
Speaker 1: they were just doing this on Twitter dot com.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, and my messy ass was eating it up.
Speaker 2: I was like, keep fighting, let him fight.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, absolutely, I'm totally willing to like watch this,
Speaker 1: watch this go down.
Speaker 3: I do not want to get involved, right right right.
Speaker 2: Owens like went on Tuck Her Carlson Show and said
Speaker 2: that Ben Shapiro was quote acting unprofessional and emotionally unhinged
Speaker 2: for weeks now. She said that Shapiro quote crossed a
Speaker 2: certain line. When you come for scripture and read yourself
Speaker 2: into it, I will not talk it.
Speaker 1: Very cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, at one point, Owen's tweets that she wants
Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro to have a public like debate with her,
Speaker 2: moderated by podcaster Patrick Bett Davide.
Speaker 3: Ben Shapiro was having none of this.
Speaker 2: He tweets, Candice, I can see why you'd want to
Speaker 2: hide behind a moderator, particularly one who said we should
Speaker 2: rename our company quote Daily Jewish Wire just yesterday, No
Speaker 2: Jesus one on one Monday at five, we can sit
Speaker 2: down and have a healthy debate like adult and will
Speaker 2: live stream it on x and YouTube. Take it or
Speaker 2: leave it as to the true reason why you didn't
Speaker 2: respond to my offer to sit down with you and
Speaker 2: discuss these issues publicly or privately back in February, I
Speaker 2: have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
Speaker 3: Like, this is employer employee going at it on Twitter.
Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm taking Ben Shapiro's side here, not
Speaker 1: just because he's Ben Shapiro, but also because he's an employer.
Speaker 1: But it's a really it's a really tough situation here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel the same way, because, like, it's just
Speaker 2: not a great look to have somebody that you just
Speaker 2: hired to all this fanfare come actually like this on Twitter,
Speaker 2: like and I think, I mean, this is just my opinion,
Speaker 2: so like take that for what it's worth, just as
Speaker 2: somebody who has worked in media and been around the block.
Speaker 2: The reason why I'm not comfortable saying like their feud
Speaker 2: was entirely based on Owens's anti Semitic comments and behavior
Speaker 2: is that she just went so hard and so public
Speaker 2: that something to me, I almost wonder if there was
Speaker 2: like a contract dispute here, but like she was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I can make more money on my own, totally gotta
Speaker 2: get out of this contract or something, because like it
Speaker 2: just doesn't smell right.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, if she had like an inclination that
Speaker 1: she could afford to lose his job because she might
Speaker 1: make more money on her own, then yeah, absolutely that
Speaker 1: would that would allow her to push this further than
Speaker 1: what she might otherwise might. Like there's been a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of discussion in the right wing contents
Speaker 1: fear about like the Daily Wires fairly restrictive contracts despite
Speaker 1: still getting paid like tens of millions of dollars, there
Speaker 1: is like restrictions on like what happens when you lose
Speaker 1: monetization because the Daily Wires like a company trying to
Speaker 1: make a profit, So totally, I think there could absolutely
Speaker 1: be other financial stuff going on here. I think it's
Speaker 1: more like an interlocking series of issues rather than just
Speaker 1: one thing or another.
Speaker 2: Yes, So after Rabbi Shmooley Boteach criticized Owens for her
Speaker 2: defenses of Kanye West. Owens liked to tweet asking Boteach
Speaker 2: if he was quote drunk on Christian blood again.
Speaker 3: And I guess that was the final straw.
Speaker 2: A few days later, Daily Wire and Candace Owens ended
Speaker 2: their relationship, with Owen's tweeting the rumors are true, I
Speaker 2: am finally free.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So that's what happened with her and Daily Wire. So
Speaker 2: where is she now? Well, this is where the story
Speaker 2: gets interesting because I had not heard from Candace Owens
Speaker 2: in a minute, and my reintroduction to her happened recently,
Speaker 2: and when I was trying to make sense of the
Speaker 2: dispute between two Hollywood A listers, Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni.
Speaker 2: So the issue between Blake and Justin it's a little
Speaker 2: bit complicated and ongoing, but it's actually a pretty interesting
Speaker 2: story that includes a lot of things that I enjoy,
Speaker 2: like how celebrities use media and how social media platforms
Speaker 2: can be weaponized for or against specific people. Email correspondence
Speaker 2: where people make themselves look terrible in writing because they
Speaker 2: do not expect those emails to be in a deposition
Speaker 2: later like that is my favorite thing in the world, like,
Speaker 2: please continue to put your wrongdoing in writing so that
Speaker 2: my nosey ask can read it later and be like,
Speaker 2: ooh messy. So I do encourage like folks to read
Speaker 2: up on it because it does go beyond just like
Speaker 2: two celebrities having a feud, but you don't really need
Speaker 2: to know the specifics for our purposes. The quick and
Speaker 2: dirty version is that Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni were
Speaker 2: in a movie adaptation of the very popular novel by
Speaker 2: Colleen Hoover called It Starts with Us. In December, Lively
Speaker 2: filed a legal complaint against Baldoni, accusing him of sexual
Speaker 2: harassment and starting a smear campaign against her. Baldoni strongly
Speaker 2: denies that and has sued her and response, both camps
Speaker 2: have released information like emails, text messages, and video that
Speaker 2: attempting to make the other look bad.
Speaker 3: So it has kind of.
Speaker 2: Turned into one of those ink blot tests that changes
Speaker 2: depending on whose version you buy. Version one is that
Speaker 2: Blake Lively was being sexually harassed on set by a
Speaker 2: fake feminist ally who is actually an abusive man, or
Speaker 2: version two that Blake Lively is an egomaniac who was
Speaker 2: using her star power and a list celebrity network like
Speaker 2: her husband Ryan Reynolds from Deadpool, to control the narrative
Speaker 2: around her being a nightmare on set and steamrolling everybody
Speaker 2: on this project. Cool, yes, and so it's what's interesting
Speaker 2: about this to me is that it's one of those
Speaker 2: stories where algorithmically it depends on what silo or what
Speaker 2: pocket of the Internet you're at sure to determine, like,
Speaker 2: what version of this story you're getting, Like much like
Speaker 2: Johnny Dep's deformation Losses.
Speaker 1: Sounds too much like the thing, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and so like for whatever reason, TikTok thinks
Speaker 2: I hate Blake Lively and want to pour over every
Speaker 2: nuance of how she is a fraud, right, like, but
Speaker 2: someone else's TikTok might be like, no, Blake Lively, we
Speaker 2: should be supporting her. Like. It's one of those situations
Speaker 2: where just depending on where you are on the Internet,
Speaker 2: you might get a very different impression of the public
Speaker 2: sentiment leaning one brayer or another.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is all the types of things I
Speaker 1: try to avoid learning about at almost all costs. So
Speaker 1: I guess I need not you, you know.
Speaker 2: So I was trying to get to the bottom of
Speaker 2: it because I kept hearing about it, like everyone was
Speaker 2: talking about it. So I'm talking to my cousins, who
Speaker 2: I would lovingly describe as normies, and that they are
Speaker 2: not super online.
Speaker 3: It's like they're not like you and me. They're not
Speaker 3: like deep into the depths of extremism or anything like that.
Speaker 1: No, they're not watching like the Daily Wire for fun
Speaker 1: slash four works, yes, yea.
Speaker 2: And my cousins are like, oh my god, there is
Speaker 2: this black girl journalist who has been following everything and
Speaker 2: breaking it down. She has all the tea will tag you.
Speaker 2: That journalist was Candace Owens. Okay, so all right, you
Speaker 2: know Candace has been making so many videos off of this,
Speaker 2: and like her coverage, if you, coverage in quotes, has
Speaker 2: really taken off online. As The Cut put it in
Speaker 2: a piece called Candace Owens has gone mainstream. They write,
Speaker 2: the right wing commentator's coverage of the Blake Lively justin
Speaker 2: Boldannie case has reached millions of viewers. Owen's podcast was
Speaker 2: hours and hours of analysis of the case, deep dives
Speaker 2: into court filings, tabloid news stories, even Ryan Reynolds's recent
Speaker 2: SNL Fifthist anniversary special appearance.
Speaker 3: One listener said, she's really been.
Speaker 2: Able to go in and pinpoint discrepancies and some of
Speaker 2: the things Blake Lively ha said, rather than us having
Speaker 2: to go through it on our own.
Speaker 1: Ah. Of course it's the woman who's lying about being
Speaker 1: sexually harassed. Of course.
Speaker 2: One listener of her podcast says she recognizes that Owens
Speaker 2: seems to have a pro Boldanni bias, but she doesn't
Speaker 2: care because quote, she's urging us to look past the
Speaker 2: fact that this is not a feminist issue at all,
Speaker 2: that it's about getting justice or whoever is being wronged here.
Speaker 3: She's uniting the left and the right. The right wing Women's.
Speaker 2: Magazine also published a headline about this, saying how Candice
Speaker 2: Owens is uniting conservatives and liberal with her it ends
Speaker 2: with US coverage. So her coverage of this dispute has
Speaker 2: really allowed her to attract a lot more viewers beyond
Speaker 2: her like normal right wing extremist base, which has generally
Speaker 2: been like a lot of white men like that who
Speaker 2: was really listening to her content before when she was
Speaker 2: with Daily Wire. Now she has really branched out. So
Speaker 2: like normies like my cousins who have no idea who
Speaker 2: Owens is, have no idea her background, her past, the
Speaker 2: work that she has done, and just think like, oh,
Speaker 2: she's a normal entertainment journalist, like digging and getting the dirt.
Speaker 1: I know she's doing this like on her podcast. I
Speaker 1: assume YouTube as well. She also just like trying to
Speaker 1: like flood TikTok, trying to flood like Instagram reaches. Is
Speaker 1: this kind of part of how she's trying to like
Speaker 1: expand her reach.
Speaker 3: It is like she's everywhere.
Speaker 2: And then she has her longer form podcast YouTube, but
Speaker 2: then clips of her like you know, breaking down the
Speaker 2: top lies or top inaccuracies and things that Blake Lively
Speaker 2: has said. Those go super viral on social media. The
Speaker 2: short clips yeah okay, and all of this has been
Speaker 2: just gangbusters for her growth and engagement.
Speaker 3: Here's how A cut put it.
Speaker 2: Since Owens started covering the Lively Baldani case, her YouTube
Speaker 2: channel has exploded in popularity, allowing her to attract a
Speaker 2: much larger fan base than the audience of hardcore conservatives
Speaker 2: she is amassed over the years. Each episode about Lively
Speaker 2: racks up at least one point five million views. In
Speaker 2: the past month alone, Owen's has a masked more than
Speaker 2: four hundred and fifty thousand new subscribers on YouTube, and
Speaker 2: her total video views have quadrupled since this time last year.
Speaker 2: This is according to data from the platforms Social Blade,
Speaker 2: oh No. Over the past three months, her audience on
Speaker 2: YouTube has almost started skewing sixty five percent female, according
Speaker 2: to data provided by a spokesperson, a market shift from
Speaker 2: her past fan base.
Speaker 3: So yeah, she's loading in popularity.
Speaker 2: She's everywhere, and now she's attracting like normy women who
Speaker 2: are just coming in for this celebrity dispute.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably not gonna end well huh.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think it will end well.
Speaker 2: You know, I was like racking my brain trying to
Speaker 2: figure out, like, why has this story taken off so
Speaker 2: much for Owen's And there are a couple of reasons.
Speaker 3: I think this is like working for her. One.
Speaker 2: I hate to say it, but she is actually genuinely
Speaker 2: interesting to listen to. You know, when she was a
Speaker 2: progressive voice online, she definitely was somebody who had a
Speaker 2: point of view and a clear voice and a perspective,
Speaker 2: and that really comes through when she's breaking down Blake
Speaker 2: Lively in these videos. She has a way of speaking
Speaker 2: that really makes you pay attention and signals to the listener,
Speaker 2: like this person is really breaking it down. It's the
Speaker 2: same reason why on TikTok or social media when someone
Speaker 2: is like story time, we're like I'm about to tell
Speaker 2: you all the details of something. Those videos always perform
Speaker 2: very well on social media. And I think that Owens
Speaker 2: is just very good at knowing how to hold somebody's
Speaker 2: attention online.
Speaker 3: Like I have to say it, sure.
Speaker 1: I mean she's been doing the content churn for almost
Speaker 1: a decade now, Like, yeah, you you do get good
Speaker 1: at it on like a technical proficiency level.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: Also, you know, we just love good old fashioned misogyny.
Speaker 2: And if that misogyny can be laced with like a
Speaker 2: conspiracy theory, oh, I.
Speaker 3: Think that's it's even better.
Speaker 2: So, like I think that part of this is just
Speaker 2: like social media platforms are always going to amplify misogyny.
Speaker 2: I would argue that things like misogyny, transphobia, massage, noire,
Speaker 2: or racism, all of that is like baked into the
Speaker 2: experience of showing up online as a feature, not a bug.
Speaker 2: And I think that Omens takes it even further because
Speaker 2: she is breaking it down, like she's uncovering some conspiracy.
Speaker 2: Like it's not just let's talk about about Blake Lively,
Speaker 2: it's I'm uncovering the web of lies and I'm gonna
Speaker 2: I'm gonna expose Blake Lively's dark truth, right, and so
Speaker 2: like of course that's gonna take off.
Speaker 1: And she does gain this element of authority because she's
Speaker 1: a woman talking about this. It makes men feel better
Speaker 1: about being misogynistic because a woman's telling them it's okay
Speaker 1: to I mean, this is this is the same thing
Speaker 1: that she was able to weaponize for all of her,
Speaker 1: like like you know, anti Black Lives Matter stuff for
Speaker 1: all of her, like like racism isn't real things. She
Speaker 1: tries to use that to her advantage, mostly to make
Speaker 1: like white members of her audience like feel good about
Speaker 1: their own racism because a black woman told them it's
Speaker 1: actually okay and like that that's been like a big
Speaker 1: part of her career the past few years exactly that.
Speaker 2: And I think like she really understands that the inviting
Speaker 2: power of taking what you might think of as like
Speaker 2: a contrarian stance on something like yeah, totally, like after
Speaker 2: the Me Too movement, how many women got engagement by
Speaker 2: taking a contrarian stance right, Like, I think going against
Speaker 2: the conventional attitude that says like, oh, we have to
Speaker 2: automatically support the woman in this in this dispute probably
Speaker 2: make people tuning into Omens's breakdowns feel like they're like
Speaker 2: free thinkers who are going against the grain, you know,
Speaker 2: by taking an unpopular opinion, which I do think connects
Speaker 2: to her more odious stances on things like trans people
Speaker 2: and women and Jewish people.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, like you see the same thing with
Speaker 1: like you know, like the gaze against groomers thing right
Speaker 1: wing trans influencers de trans influencers. It's the same, like gambit,
Speaker 1: and certainly I think like, yeah, like your identification of
Speaker 1: her as like a professional contrarian is like very very
Speaker 1: key to her success exactly.
Speaker 2: I also think like part of the reason why people
Speaker 2: are attracted to conspiracy theories is that it allows for
Speaker 2: like fantasy world building. And I mean I really see
Speaker 2: the ways that she injects that into her coverage, even
Speaker 2: the word coverage I put that in worlds because like
Speaker 2: she is like a wild person to her coverage is
Speaker 2: like also wild. She does not adhere to, as she
Speaker 2: puts it, quote a traditional style.
Speaker 1: Of reporting, you know, I'll take her word for that one,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'll believe her on that single point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe her. I believe that. You know, she
Speaker 3: amplifies rumors. And even once.
Speaker 2: She read a letter that she said that she got
Speaker 2: from Blake Lively's husband, Ryan Reynolds, his acting coach when
Speaker 2: he was twelve, and Tone Owens, his acting coach, said
Speaker 2: that Ryan Reynolds was an obnoxious kid.
Speaker 1: You know what, I also believe it.
Speaker 3: I Oh, I have no trouble believing that. But like
Speaker 3: her coverage, it includes like side.
Speaker 1: Characters, Yeah, things that have no bearing on this whatsoever.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I feel like this, this focus on
Speaker 1: like this, like conspiratorial ben is the same. She's using
Speaker 1: the same tactics she did for her Black Lives Matter
Speaker 1: documentary for like most of her political work. Like it.
Speaker 1: It's she's using the same tactics over and over again,
Speaker 1: and eventually she like reaches this like stress point or
Speaker 1: this like threshold where she cannot see a path forward
Speaker 1: or she can't see a way to surpass it, and
Speaker 1: then she does a pivot. This happened with her progressive blog,
Speaker 1: this happened even at the Daily Wire. She does not
Speaker 1: she doesn't work with turning point us Sadie more and
Speaker 1: like this this new pivot is learning. Hey, it's sup
Speaker 1: super lucrative to be like a tabloid entertainment quote unquote journalist.
Speaker 1: Very easy, super lucrative. And all of the tactics you
Speaker 1: learned on the right wing media sphere work great here,
Speaker 1: like all of this, like conspiratorial thinking really uh, a
Speaker 1: disregard for like like facts and evidence works perfect for
Speaker 1: this sort of like rumor based reporting, and it spreads
Speaker 1: like crazy, And yeah, it spreads across political lines. You
Speaker 1: don't you aren't just targeting the mega people or like
Speaker 1: the far right. This this can be so much more
Speaker 1: broad to like the giant audience of like you know,
Speaker 1: quote unquote, like a political people go to these platforms
Speaker 1: for a form of like of like escapism and entertainment
Speaker 1: rather than just hearing about politics. Yet again, because that's
Speaker 1: you know, very very tiring.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think in my mind all of it
Speaker 2: is sort of sort of connected. Like Ben Shapiro, nobody
Speaker 2: cared more about celebrities or talked more about celebrities than
Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro. He would love to be like, I don't
Speaker 2: care what Hollywood is doing but he was obsessed with
Speaker 2: like Beyonce and Meg the Stallion, Like it was just
Speaker 2: like a negative obsession.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, you know, anti fandom is still fandom.
Speaker 2: When you make video after video about how much you
Speaker 2: don't like Meg thea Stallion in a kind of way,
Speaker 2: you are a fan, just in the opposite direction. And
Speaker 2: so I think that Candace Owens really took that and
Speaker 2: learned how to perfect it because she is much I
Speaker 2: think that she is much better at this than Ben
Speaker 2: Shapiro is.
Speaker 3: Like the evidence being that, like.
Speaker 2: Her YouTube channel is exploding with people who probably would
Speaker 2: never watch any any of Ben Shapiro's content.
Speaker 1: The big bummer for me is that the Daily Wires
Speaker 1: first film, Lady Ballers left us on a cliffhanger with
Speaker 1: Candace Owns and Matt Walsh sitting in a car talking
Speaker 1: about how Matt Walsh planned this entire like plot of
Speaker 1: the film as like as like some kind of scheme
Speaker 1: or like social experiment, and you know, it was implied
Speaker 1: there would be more, you know, it was like a
Speaker 1: you know, like Avengers Nick Fury type post credits scene,
Speaker 1: and now we're never gonna learn what Candice Owans and
Speaker 1: Matt Walsh get up to now because she's left the company.
Speaker 1: She's now doing her own thing. So now we just
Speaker 1: have this dangling plot thread that's just gonna bug me forever,
Speaker 1: Like what does the candae Owan's character at the end
Speaker 1: of Lady Ballers do next. I'm gonna be thinking about
Speaker 1: this for like years.
Speaker 2: America deserves closure, we deserve to know. Just putting that
Speaker 2: out there, I think we do deserve closure.
Speaker 3: I just think my closure is gonna be a little bit different.
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 1: I'm very fine having all of these plot threads wrapped
Speaker 1: up quite quickly, but I do not see that in
Speaker 1: the cards immediately.
Speaker 2: So in terms of where she's at now, like you know,
Speaker 2: my question is like, has Owens has this kind of
Speaker 2: like mainstream audience that she's been able to amass.
Speaker 3: Has she changed her views? She is she trying to
Speaker 3: do a rebrand or a pay it.
Speaker 2: In an interview, she said, in terms of my perspective,
Speaker 2: I haven't changed anything. I've been anti METO since long
Speaker 2: before it was cool.
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean that can be true. It's also true
Speaker 1: that she is getting better at propaganda and widening her footprint, which, yeah,
Speaker 1: then once her audience gets bigger, she might be able
Speaker 1: to slip in more things that I would find on
Speaker 1: savory to a larger audience over time. But she also
Speaker 1: might be content to keep growing that and be slightly
Speaker 1: less off putting in the meantime. But no, like there's
Speaker 1: also just a huge audience for like the anti woke backlash,
Speaker 1: anti metwo stuff right now. Like that's kind of that's
Speaker 1: kind of like the new mainstream Frankly, so I am
Speaker 1: certain that she's going to try to continue to like
Speaker 1: flex that and grow that in the in the next
Speaker 1: few months years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I agree with you. I believe Owens when
Speaker 2: she says that, like her stances have not changed much. Yeah,
Speaker 2: easy to be like, oh, well, she's pivoting to go
Speaker 2: mainstream now that she has these like women in her
Speaker 2: audience who are interested in celebrity. And honestly, you can
Speaker 2: sort of see some of this in changes to her
Speaker 2: physical appearance, Like she was sort of known for having
Speaker 2: very severe hair, the joke being that she had alienated
Speaker 2: herself so much from her fellow black people that like,
Speaker 2: no black person was going to do her hair and
Speaker 2: that's why it looks that way. But lately you've really
Speaker 2: seen this like softening she's kind of going for like
Speaker 2: a softer public look.
Speaker 3: She is pivoting to different kinds of programming.
Speaker 2: She's branched out into doing a book club for paying
Speaker 2: subscribers and some kind of a fitness program.
Speaker 1: That makes sense. Yeah, totally, like the health Guru fitness
Speaker 1: entertainment bubble. Yeah that's huge.
Speaker 3: That's such a good grift. She's gonna make so much money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she is.
Speaker 3: But I really.
Speaker 2: Agree with you, gaire that, like, I think that these
Speaker 2: new followers are certainly going to be walked down a
Speaker 2: pipeline that includes her extremist attitude just using celebrity scandal
Speaker 2: as a hook, because, like as you said, celebrity scandals
Speaker 2: and celebrity stories are disconsidered fluff for a lot of people,
Speaker 2: Like people who care about extremist content and ideology are
Speaker 2: maybe not seeing that as a space that they need
Speaker 2: to pay too close of attention to about these stories
Speaker 2: that you might see on the cover of an US weekly.
Speaker 3: But these stories actually.
Speaker 2: Can be used to tap into extremist ideologies and unleash
Speaker 2: them in a whole new audience. I'm like, yeah, like
Speaker 2: you were saying, if you are just like watching a
Speaker 2: podcast because you're want to be entertained about a story
Speaker 2: about two celebrities, you might not have your like bullshit
Speaker 2: detector up to be like, wait, is this extremist content
Speaker 2: because it's it's seen and treated as a less charge space,
Speaker 2: and so you know that line of thinking that says
Speaker 2: that you know, this is just fluff. It doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2: What happens in celebrity news is not that it's incorrect.
Speaker 2: It is dangerous because it lends itself to people being
Speaker 2: more susceptible to it when extremist content is slipped in
Speaker 2: without even really realizing it.
Speaker 1: I mean, and like that relates even to like the
Speaker 1: originator of this gamer gate stuff and the whole like
Speaker 1: anti woke like media fandom content sphere right where so
Speaker 1: much of like the anti book backlash has been built
Speaker 1: on people complaining that Star Wars is two woke. Now,
Speaker 1: there's too many women in movies, there's too many black
Speaker 1: people in commercials, where do all the white people go,
Speaker 1: There's too many gay people in TV, there's too many
Speaker 1: trans people in TV, and like that is it is
Speaker 1: definitely focused on by the rest of the Daily Wire goons,
Speaker 1: and you can very easily pivot back to that sort
Speaker 1: of cultural commentary after you're done talking about Blake Lively,
Speaker 1: like this is this is a very small jump where
Speaker 1: you're still talking about the entertainment industry, but with this
Speaker 1: like anti woke framing of like, you know, why is
Speaker 1: all these minorities here, why are they pushing transgenderism on kids?
Speaker 1: You know, whether that be talking about you know, transactors
Speaker 1: in the business, whether you be talking about you know,
Speaker 1: like female lead or like diversity casting, like all all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff that especially Candice can use her
Speaker 1: like contrarian position to speak on authority about talking about
Speaker 1: why are you recasting these legacy characters to be people
Speaker 1: of color? Or why is of a woman the lead
Speaker 1: of this thing when it should be actually a man?
Speaker 1: You know, just like very very basic stuff that's been
Speaker 1: a part of like the YouTube slop for a decade now,
Speaker 1: but it's still like still takes in a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of clips and it is it is a
Speaker 1: lot of like the Daily Wire and like right wing
Speaker 1: content still still does it's all this like weird like
Speaker 1: culture war stuff. It's very very tightened with Hollywood. Like
Speaker 1: you were saying about how like Ben Shapiro claims to
Speaker 1: you know, like hate Hollywood. He's trying to build his
Speaker 1: own alternative to it, but he can't stop talking about it,
Speaker 1: like he can't stop complaining about Disney's snow White. And
Speaker 1: I can see Candice doing like the exact same thing,
Speaker 1: but now with like an honestly like a bigger, a bigger,
Speaker 1: more like a political audience that's much more malleable and
Speaker 1: can be shaped around these like larger cultural trends. When
Speaker 1: you think about this like perception of this backlash against wokeness.
Speaker 3: I absolutely think that's what we're gonna see.
Speaker 2: And I can tell you we can finish by I
Speaker 2: can tell you about her next big pet issue, which is, yeah,
Speaker 2: championing Harvey Weinstein, who she is no.
Speaker 1: No, no, So.
Speaker 2: She's been interviewing him since twenty twenty two, according to
Speaker 2: The Hollywood Reporter. She explains, while he is quote an
Speaker 2: immoral man, he is also.
Speaker 3: Am a justice system, a victim, sure.
Speaker 2: Victim, And she says, I've always had faith in our
Speaker 2: court system, and now it's beginning to change. Now I'm
Speaker 2: beginning to wonder if our courtrooms have been politicized. And
Speaker 2: the thing that's made her think this is Harvey.
Speaker 3: Weinstein it's wild.
Speaker 1: I mean, like Ben Shapiro is starting his own campaign
Speaker 1: to free Derek Chauvin. I think there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot of pressure on the courts right now. I mean
Speaker 1: you're seeing that from like Elon and Trump as well.
Speaker 1: I think undermining the authority of the court I think
Speaker 1: is actually kind of part of this larger concerted issue
Speaker 1: amongst the entirety of the right right now, because this
Speaker 1: is like their biggest remaining roadblock to achieving their right
Speaker 1: wing utopia is the court system. And I you know,
Speaker 1: this may not be intentional on every person's part, like
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro and the zones aren't aren't like intentionally collaborating
Speaker 1: on this, but they may be copying each other's trends.
Speaker 1: And if they're seeing this this wider push across a
Speaker 1: large amount of like the right wing content people to
Speaker 1: put pressure on various aspects of the courts, including by
Speaker 1: using like high profile cases like Harvey Weinstein or Derek Shulvin,
Speaker 1: that's that's not a great sign. And I can I
Speaker 1: can definitely see them trying to trying to do that
Speaker 1: in conjunction. I guess yeah.
Speaker 2: I think we're going to see a lot more of it.
Speaker 2: Candice has a series coming out called Harvey Speaks that
Speaker 2: apparently tells his side of the story, So look out
Speaker 2: for that. And I think that's the thing, like I
Speaker 2: think with her content, Like when asked why it was
Speaker 2: she thought that her Blake Lively stuff was really taking off,
Speaker 2: she says that she believes her new fans on the
Speaker 2: left quote have just kind of gotten whise to the
Speaker 2: fact that maybe women lie just like men. And so
Speaker 2: I just implore folks that, like, even if you think
Speaker 2: that you're just like retaking in this content because you're
Speaker 2: following fluffy celebrity news or whatever, it is so easy
Speaker 2: to go from maybe women lie to maybe women can't
Speaker 2: be trusted, or maybe women shouldn't work and have jobs,
Speaker 2: a stance at Candace herself is actually advocated for, despite
Speaker 2: very obviously being a working woman. And so I don't
Speaker 2: think we should trust Candace Owens even if she does
Speaker 2: this rebrand, Like, no, don't let her rebrand herself as
Speaker 2: like just a celebrity investigative journalist.
Speaker 3: Like she put all of these odious views.
Speaker 2: Out into the world, and I don't want her to
Speaker 2: be able to like soften it or you know, soften
Speaker 2: what it is that she advocates for, what it is
Speaker 2: that she believes in, if that is truly what she's
Speaker 2: trying to do to just sort of like a mass
Speaker 2: of more mainstream audience.
Speaker 3: So don't fall for it.
Speaker 2: If you're if you're getting tagged in Candace Owens videos,
Speaker 2: just know what she actually is about.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think I think for our audience,
Speaker 1: it's it's more likely that you'll have like family members
Speaker 1: who are going to be finding this stuff. And you
Speaker 1: should find a list of sources. Maybe this episode included,
Speaker 1: but probably you know, you can find some articles as
Speaker 1: well that think of some background on Candace's history and
Speaker 1: previous beliefs, can pick and choose some of her most
Speaker 1: like outrageous claims. So when your aunt sends you a
Speaker 1: video about how Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively are kidnapping
Speaker 1: children or something, you can you can maybe inform Aunt
Speaker 1: Judy that maybe you shouldn't listen to everything this Candice
Speaker 1: Owan's character is saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this Candice Owans might not be on the money,
Speaker 2: might not be on the level. No, yeah, inform an
Speaker 2: Auntie today, Yes that's right, and that's all I got.
Speaker 3: That's it. I don't know how. You usually end these episodes.
Speaker 1: Usually by getting sad, but I don't know. This has
Speaker 1: been been an an interesting dive into the life of
Speaker 1: a woman with many, many careers, many a chameleon, many personalities,
Speaker 1: a chameleon, a chameleon of contrarianism.
Speaker 3: Oh, I like that. If I ever write a book
Speaker 3: about her, that'll be the title.
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. Oh what a nightmare that would be. Man
Speaker 1: scary Bridget Where can people find you online?
Speaker 2: You can find me on my podcast. There are our
Speaker 2: girls on the internet on this network. iHeartRadio. I mean,
Speaker 2: you can find me on Instagram at bridget Ran DC
Speaker 2: or on Blue Sky at bridget Time.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, good luck in d C.
Speaker 1: Thanks for holding holding the line out there as Elon
Speaker 1: puts a kildozer through your entire city.
Speaker 3: We're doing our best.
Speaker 1: I would would love to talk again about a DC update.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe next time you come on the show. My God, yes, please,
Speaker 1: there we go, Well we will, we will talk then goodbye, everybody.
Speaker 3: It could happen.
Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot
Speaker 1: com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever.
Speaker 2: You listen to podcasts can now find sources for it
Speaker 2: could happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.