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Speaker 1: Cool Media. Welcome to it could happen here, the show

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Speaker 1: about Things Falling Apart. I'm Garrison Davis and I'm joined

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Speaker 1: today by a special guest host, Richard's Todd. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the show.

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Speaker 2: Ah, thank you so much for having me. I am

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Speaker 2: completely excited to be here. I am a listener of

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Speaker 2: the show, so it feels like getting to be on

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Speaker 2: a show that I actually freak out too often.

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Speaker 1: And I'm very excited for you to be here because

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Speaker 1: you have a special report on one of the people

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Speaker 1: who I've been cyberstalking for years, and I'm very excited

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Speaker 1: to hear the details of what she's been up to

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Speaker 1: these past few weeks. I kind of know the rough

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Speaker 1: overview because again because of my cyberstalking, but I've not

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Speaker 1: done a deep dive the way you have, so I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited to hear an update on this on this character.

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Speaker 2: So it sounds like we are in a similar place

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Speaker 2: when it comes to this person, and this person is

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Speaker 2: none other than Candice Owens. First of all, what are

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Speaker 2: her thoughts on her? Because I am low key fascinated

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Speaker 2: with her. I follow her on social media, I watch

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Speaker 2: her videos like I am.

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Speaker 3: Like weirdly captivated by her.

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Speaker 1: I mean I've I've covered her mostly through her involvement

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Speaker 1: with Daily Wire. I've talked a little bit about kind

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Speaker 1: of how that'll fell apart, you know, like a year

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Speaker 1: and a half ago or so. I've talked a little

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Speaker 1: bit about her involvement in Turning Point USA with Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 1: And she's just kind of been one of like these

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Speaker 1: like randomly, you know, like like orbiters of like the

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Speaker 1: online like right wing content sphere for like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: the past six years at least, and I typically focus

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Speaker 1: more on like you know, like the Ben Shapiro's, the

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Speaker 1: Matt Walsh's, you know, back in the day, the Stephen

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Speaker 1: Crowders and stuff. But Cannis was always just like around

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Speaker 1: and like she definitely like went after a different demographic

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Speaker 1: than what like my usual focuses, right, Like I'm focused

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Speaker 1: on like what's going on with straight white men, Like

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Speaker 1: why why are they like this? And who who is

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Speaker 1: targeting them? You know, and that's you know, that's like

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Speaker 1: the Matt Walsh, Stephen Crowder kind of angle. Like Candace

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Speaker 1: Owens has like a kind of a broader net that

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Speaker 1: she targets with her content, So like she's always kind

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Speaker 1: of come up as like a side character. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I've ever done like a distinct focus on her

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Speaker 1: before besides just you know whatever kind of crazy post

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Speaker 1: or like you know, anti trans or like very like

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Speaker 1: weird like racist rank that she goes on like every

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Speaker 1: once in a while.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so there is so much to talk about when

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Speaker 2: it comes to Candace Owens. I'm sort of like you,

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Speaker 2: like I sort of saw her as a side character,

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Speaker 2: but only recently have I realized, like, oh, people in

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Speaker 2: my life are listening to Candace Owens and citing Candace

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Speaker 2: Owens and they have no idea any about her, anything

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Speaker 2: about her backstory.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all the stuff that you that you were just

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Speaker 3: talking about.

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Speaker 1: She's like reinvented herself like multiple times. And you know,

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Speaker 1: some people who mainly come at this from like the

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Speaker 1: anti fascist research perspective might not be aware of her

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Speaker 1: like latest rebrand, which is what I'm excited to hear

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Speaker 1: about today. Yes, I just remembered how she had that

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Speaker 1: whole event with Kanye when she did to her like

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Speaker 1: BLM documentary that was a whole other Candace era. Yeah

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Speaker 1: so much, My.

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Speaker 2: God, I have to say I was like low key

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Speaker 2: embarrassed for her because like during her Kanye West era,

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Speaker 2: she was like, Kanye West designed the Katore outfits for

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Speaker 2: my Blexit movement, and Kanye West was like, no, I

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Speaker 2: fucking didn't, And like I was like, Oh, They're so

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Speaker 2: embarrassing that you like that, you like publicly aligned yourself

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Speaker 2: with Kanye West, only for him to basically like diss

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Speaker 2: you publicly right after yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then come out as like an explicit neo Nazi

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Speaker 1: like two weeks later.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, uh, Candace girl.

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Speaker 2: So I want to talk about her, like, I don't

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Speaker 2: want to spend too much time on her background, but

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Speaker 2: there are some pieces that I think like are good

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Speaker 2: for understanding kind of who she is, this chameleon figure

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Speaker 2: that she's been totally If there is not like a

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Speaker 2: behind the bastard's on her, do you know, if there is,

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Speaker 2: there should be If there's not not.

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Speaker 1: Yet, Like similarly on Bastards, she's been one of one

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Speaker 1: of these like recurring characters. Oh my god, but she

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Speaker 1: she is had a distinct focus.

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Speaker 2: Robert Evans, get on it, because we need the Candace

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Speaker 2: Owens behind the bastard. So Candicce grew up in Stanford, Connecticut.

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Speaker 2: While she was a student there, she went through this

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Speaker 2: horrible sounding racial harassment. A classmate left her like this

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Speaker 2: racist death threat on her voicemail. That turned into like

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Speaker 2: a pretty serious local scandal because it turned out the

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Speaker 2: student who made that threat via voicemail.

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Speaker 3: Did so in a car with a group of.

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Speaker 2: Students that included the sun of the then mayor and

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Speaker 2: then future Democratic governor of Connecticut, Daniel molloy. So she

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Speaker 2: got tons of support from the local chapter of the NAACP,

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Speaker 2: and her family ended up suing the Stamford Board of

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Speaker 2: Education in federal court for failing to protect her rights,

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Speaker 2: resulting in a thirty seven thousand, five hundred dollars settlement.

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Speaker 2: She went on the studied journalism at University of Rhode

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Speaker 2: Island before dropping out.

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Speaker 1: This is like the early two thousands.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this was like young like baby Candace high school

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Speaker 2: Candace before she was the Candace Owen that we you

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Speaker 2: know today. Yeah, so I sort of like almost see

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Speaker 2: a little bit of myself and where she got her

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Speaker 2: start like me. She was an early adopter of using

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Speaker 2: the Internet to talk about things like race and politics

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Speaker 2: like me. That also seemed to sort of manifest in

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Speaker 2: a lot of like low hanging fruit shit posts on

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Speaker 2: the early days of blogging, Like in twenty fifteen, she

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Speaker 2: was writing blogs making fun of Trump's penis size.

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Speaker 1: Sure, many such cases.

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Speaker 3: Yes, many such cases.

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Speaker 2: So in twenty fifteen, Owens is running a blog called

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Speaker 2: Degree one eighty where she wrote pieces criticizing conservative Republicans,

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Speaker 2: writing about the quote that shit crazy antics of the

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Speaker 2: Republican tea Party. The good news is they will eventually

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Speaker 2: die off peacefully and in their sleep, we hope, and

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Speaker 2: then we can get right on with the obvious social

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Speaker 2: change that needs to happen immediately, she wrote on her blog.

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Speaker 2: So back then she was really someone who had like

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Speaker 2: a progressive point of view and was doing a lot

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Speaker 2: of public writing about what she was saying and experiencing

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Speaker 2: in politics at the time. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, this is something that I guess some people might

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Speaker 1: not know if they've only like become aware of her

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Speaker 1: through daily wires. Yeah, Like in the pre twenty sixteen

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Speaker 1: like BuzzFeed internet kind of sphere, she was just like

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Speaker 1: one of like these people who would yeah, have like

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Speaker 1: like you know, progressive like ish takes, criticize embarrassing like politicians,

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Speaker 1: and like overtly racist stuff happening, and then the degree

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Speaker 1: to which this this like heel turn happens is like

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Speaker 1: one of the most stark examples I've seen in like

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Speaker 1: a I don't know, I'm trying to think of it.

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Speaker 1: If there's like any like exact parallel, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: Like there's like certainly some like detransition, like a grifters.

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Speaker 1: There used to be like ex gay influencers or you

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Speaker 1: know this like like proto influencers kind of before influencers

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Speaker 1: were a thing, like ex gay speakers. But yeah, the

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Speaker 1: switch around on Candace from these blog posts is so concentrated.

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Speaker 2: So in her own words she describes it as happening,

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Speaker 2: Oh there you go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how it happened is like fascinating to me.

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Speaker 2: So in twenty sixteen, when Gamergate was in full swing,

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Speaker 2: Owen's launched a Kickstarter for a project called Social Autopsy,

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Speaker 2: which she described as a way to catalog the abuses

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Speaker 2: of trolls and cyberbullies. Fun fact that Kickstarter is still

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Speaker 2: up today. It is such a weird time capsule of

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Speaker 2: a different time. There's like a video of her speaking

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Speaker 2: earnestly about the need to like have the internet be

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Speaker 2: a like safer, more equitable landscape.

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Speaker 3: It is nuts, like.

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Speaker 2: People should go listen to her speaking about this project.

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Speaker 2: So the plan for this project was essentially that she

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Speaker 2: would create a way to de anonymize online commentators and

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Speaker 2: then connect them with like their real names and their

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Speaker 2: real life employers. And what's so funny is that, like

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Speaker 2: that is the very same argument that a lot of

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Speaker 2: people use, people who like want to restrict the open

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Speaker 2: Internet still use today that like problems on the Internet

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Speaker 2: online harassment and abuse would all be improved if only

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Speaker 2: everybody had to use their government idea and government names

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Speaker 2: to access the Internet. And so like it's very funny

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Speaker 2: that that idea it was bad then, and it didn't

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Speaker 2: really die, it was just recycled into today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like there's a version of this that happens,

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Speaker 1: or at least it kind of used to happen more

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Speaker 1: in regards to like anti fascist research, where like you're

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Speaker 1: like identify specific like extremely racist accounts or like explicit

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Speaker 1: neo Nazis and contact their employer in an attempt to

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Speaker 1: get to get them fired so they can focus on

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Speaker 1: getting a new job and supporting themselves rather than doing

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Speaker 1: racism online and in person, if especially if he's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a member of like a group, whether that

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Speaker 1: be you know, the Proud Boys back in the day

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Speaker 1: or many many other groups, Patriot Prayer now, Patriot Front,

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. It's funny how hated this tactic

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Speaker 1: is soon to be by people like Candice and the

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Speaker 1: Daily Wire people. But here she's advocating it herself exactly,

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Speaker 1: and they just like post Anita Sarkisian kind of content

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Speaker 1: like world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so pretty much everybody thought this was a bad idea,

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Speaker 2: including video game developer Zoe Quinn, who folks might remember

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Speaker 2: was kind of at the center of Gamergate and was

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Speaker 2: like viciously attacked. Owens was subsequently harassed and docs and

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Speaker 2: she blamed Zoe Quinn and other feminists for this and

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Speaker 2: said so publicly as you can probably guess, like people

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Speaker 2: like Milo Gyanopolis loved this.

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Speaker 3: People who were promoters of.

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Speaker 2: Gamergate really hyped up Owens's claims that like, yes, feminists

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Speaker 2: were actually the ones doing all the online harassing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I can see where this is going.

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Speaker 2: So this event is what Owen's credits with her turn

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Speaker 2: from progressive to quote becoming a red pilled radical. She says,

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Speaker 2: I became a conservative overnight. I realized that liberals were

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Speaker 2: actually the racists. Liberals were actually the trolls. She starts

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Speaker 2: promoting right wing viewpoints on her YouTube channel, calling herself

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Speaker 2: quote red pilled black, which I gotta say is like

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Speaker 2: pretty good branding.

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Speaker 3: Like I'm I'm mad at the branding there.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, black woman talking about like right

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Speaker 2: wing stuff, red pill black.

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Speaker 3: I get it. I get it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm interested to see how much how much the

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Speaker 1: checkbook was a consideration here? Oh yes, how much her

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Speaker 1: Kickstarter god versus how much she realized she could get

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Speaker 1: if she jumped on the other side of the content churn.

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Speaker 2: Well, she almost instantly gets noticed by Charlie Kirk, founder

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Speaker 2: of Turning Points USA Right, and he hires her almost immediately.

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Speaker 2: She starts cranking out these videos that really perform quite well,

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Speaker 2: that her videos really go viral. Videos where she's doing

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Speaker 2: things like dismissing the twenty seventeen White supremacist Unite the

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Speaker 2: Right rally in Charlottesville. Alex Jones gets her to co

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Speaker 2: host some of his info war shows. She's doing stints

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Speaker 2: on Fox News as a paid commentator, like business is

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Speaker 2: booming for Candice Owens from this turn.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is around when I became aware of her.

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Speaker 2: Yes, in twenty twenty one, she joins up with the

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Speaker 2: Daily Wire. There was so much fanfare around them higher Candace,

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Speaker 2: like it was a big deal she moved to Nashville. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: fun fact, there was even a House joint resolution House

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Speaker 2: Joint Resolution three fifty, a resolution in the Tennessee government

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Speaker 2: to congratulate Candace Owens are relocating to Tennessee and for

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Speaker 2: her work at Daily Wired. That reads whereas Miss Owens

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Speaker 2: has earned the admiration and respect of millions of Americans

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Speaker 2: through her activism in support of President Trump as a

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Speaker 2: black woman and her perceptive criticism of creeping socialism and

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Speaker 2: leftist political tyranny.

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Speaker 1: Very cool stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine it being like a joint resolution in your

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Speaker 2: local government when you move someplace.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The Governor of Tennessee was like super excited when the

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Speaker 1: Daily Wire relocated their headquarters to Tennessee and brought in

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Speaker 1: all these people. Like there was there was like so

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Speaker 1: many like private dinners meetings. There was like a like

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Speaker 1: a number of resolutions welcoming the Daily Wire to Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: In this like twenty twenty one period as they were

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Speaker 1: just starting to like launch their own extreming service website,

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Speaker 1: which is why they recruited Candace is because they were

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Speaker 1: looking for content creators to fill out their slate.

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Speaker 2: So you would think that this should be like a

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Speaker 2: match made in heaven, right, smooth sailing. They need insidiary

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Speaker 2: content creators. She's an insidiary content creator. Should be a

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Speaker 2: match made in heaven. Perfect Not quite, because things end

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Speaker 2: in like this really messy public fallout just a few

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Speaker 2: years later. So I know that you've done episodes on

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Speaker 2: this from my perspective, and I would love to know

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Speaker 2: what you think. It's not one hundred percent clear what

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Speaker 2: went down, but the public friction between Candace Owens and

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Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro, one of the founders of Daily Wire, it

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Speaker 2: seemed to be like related to reactions around the situation

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Speaker 2: in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally so.

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Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro is Jewish and Owens, as we said, has

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Speaker 2: said and done like a lot of anti Semitic stuff,

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Speaker 2: like a lot and.

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Speaker 1: Like actual Adesemitic stuff like that people use that as

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Speaker 1: a way to like shut down like very very admirable,

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Speaker 1: like like like Propelstinian like activism. No, like Canda owns

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Speaker 1: just is anti semitic, and this it's like the same

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Speaker 1: thing with like Jackson Hinkel, and she made it like

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Speaker 1: an escalating series of anti semitic claims after October seventh,

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Speaker 1: which which slowly kind of like broke with the company

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Speaker 1: and ben like more and more and more of over

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Speaker 1: series of a few months. Yes, and it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: funny because like it also kind of mirrors this like

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Speaker 1: online fight she had with Stephen Crowder like a year

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Speaker 1: or so prior when Daily Wire was trying to recruit him,

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Speaker 1: and then she got informed about like how like abusive

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Speaker 1: he was to his wife, and then she went on

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Speaker 1: like a media blitz like against him as like as

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Speaker 1: he was in negotiations like with the Daily Wire. She's

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Speaker 1: like very willing to like stir shit up, like even

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Speaker 1: if it like goes against her own interests or the

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Speaker 1: interests of like whatever company she works for, Like she

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Speaker 1: is she is absolutely willing to like make like some

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Speaker 1: kind of like chaotic spectacle regardless of her own like

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Speaker 1: you know, financial security.

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Speaker 2: I guess yes, like she I'm so glad that you

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Speaker 2: mentioned that she is not afraid to get down and

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Speaker 2: dirty in public and I do think, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: as a black woman who works with a lot of

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Speaker 2: white men, I would imagine that she's probably thinking, like,

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Speaker 2: I have to have some kind of decorum. I don't

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Speaker 2: want anyone to say that I'm being a crazy black

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Speaker 2: woman or whatever.

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Speaker 3: She's it seems like she has no such qualms.

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Speaker 2: Like she is like I will, I will make this

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Speaker 2: a public, messy fight, and I am not afraid to

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Speaker 2: make a genuine spectacle of myself. Yeah, and so it

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Speaker 2: is really important to note that, like, as you said,

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Speaker 2: she wasn't just like criticizing the Israeli States. She was

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Speaker 2: like getting into like blood lible and like deep conspiracy theories.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it was. There was some really nasty posts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like one of the things that she said, she's

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Speaker 2: claimed that Judaism was quote a pedophile centric religion that

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Speaker 2: believes in demons and child sacrifice, and that she was

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Speaker 2: waking people up to the fact that pedophiles are in power, like.

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Speaker 3: Stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Not great, not good, not good.

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Speaker 2: So, as you said, like this starts to become like

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Speaker 2: a public feud toward her employer. She wrote on Twitter,

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Speaker 2: no one can serve two masters, and ended her post

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Speaker 2: writing you cannot serve both God and money, which Ben Shapiro,

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Speaker 2: her boss, tweets like quote tweeted, oh my god, Like, Candice,

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Speaker 2: if you feel that taking money from the Daily Wire

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Speaker 2: somehow that comes between you and God, by all means quit,

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Speaker 2: Like messy is there.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy that instead of having like a company meeting,

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Speaker 1: they were just doing this on Twitter dot com.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, and my messy ass was eating it up.

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Speaker 2: I was like, keep fighting, let him fight.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, absolutely, I'm totally willing to like watch this,

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Speaker 1: watch this go down.

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Speaker 3: I do not want to get involved, right right right.

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Speaker 2: Owens like went on Tuck Her Carlson Show and said

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Speaker 2: that Ben Shapiro was quote acting unprofessional and emotionally unhinged

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Speaker 2: for weeks now. She said that Shapiro quote crossed a

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Speaker 2: certain line. When you come for scripture and read yourself

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Speaker 2: into it, I will not talk it.

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Speaker 1: Very cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, at one point, Owen's tweets that she wants

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Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro to have a public like debate with her,

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Speaker 2: moderated by podcaster Patrick Bett Davide.

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Speaker 3: Ben Shapiro was having none of this.

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Speaker 2: He tweets, Candice, I can see why you'd want to

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Speaker 2: hide behind a moderator, particularly one who said we should

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Speaker 2: rename our company quote Daily Jewish Wire just yesterday, No

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Speaker 2: Jesus one on one Monday at five, we can sit

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Speaker 2: down and have a healthy debate like adult and will

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Speaker 2: live stream it on x and YouTube. Take it or

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Speaker 2: leave it as to the true reason why you didn't

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Speaker 2: respond to my offer to sit down with you and

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Speaker 2: discuss these issues publicly or privately back in February, I

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Speaker 2: have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: Like, this is employer employee going at it on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm taking Ben Shapiro's side here, not

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Speaker 1: just because he's Ben Shapiro, but also because he's an employer.

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Speaker 1: But it's a really it's a really tough situation here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel the same way, because, like, it's just

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Speaker 2: not a great look to have somebody that you just

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Speaker 2: hired to all this fanfare come actually like this on Twitter,

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Speaker 2: like and I think, I mean, this is just my opinion,

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Speaker 2: so like take that for what it's worth, just as

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Speaker 2: somebody who has worked in media and been around the block.

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Speaker 2: The reason why I'm not comfortable saying like their feud

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Speaker 2: was entirely based on Owens's anti Semitic comments and behavior

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Speaker 2: is that she just went so hard and so public

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Speaker 2: that something to me, I almost wonder if there was

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Speaker 2: like a contract dispute here, but like she was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I can make more money on my own, totally gotta

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Speaker 2: get out of this contract or something, because like it

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Speaker 2: just doesn't smell right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, if she had like an inclination that

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Speaker 1: she could afford to lose his job because she might

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Speaker 1: make more money on her own, then yeah, absolutely that

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Speaker 1: would that would allow her to push this further than

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Speaker 1: what she might otherwise might. Like there's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of discussion in the right wing contents

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Speaker 1: fear about like the Daily Wires fairly restrictive contracts despite

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Speaker 1: still getting paid like tens of millions of dollars, there

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Speaker 1: is like restrictions on like what happens when you lose

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Speaker 1: monetization because the Daily Wires like a company trying to

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Speaker 1: make a profit, So totally, I think there could absolutely

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Speaker 1: be other financial stuff going on here. I think it's

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Speaker 1: more like an interlocking series of issues rather than just

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Speaker 1: one thing or another.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So after Rabbi Shmooley Boteach criticized Owens for her

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Speaker 2: defenses of Kanye West. Owens liked to tweet asking Boteach

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Speaker 2: if he was quote drunk on Christian blood again.

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Speaker 3: And I guess that was the final straw.

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Speaker 2: A few days later, Daily Wire and Candace Owens ended

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Speaker 2: their relationship, with Owen's tweeting the rumors are true, I

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Speaker 2: am finally free.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So that's what happened with her and Daily Wire. So

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Speaker 2: where is she now? Well, this is where the story

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Speaker 2: gets interesting because I had not heard from Candace Owens

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Speaker 2: in a minute, and my reintroduction to her happened recently,

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Speaker 2: and when I was trying to make sense of the

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Speaker 2: dispute between two Hollywood A listers, Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni.

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Speaker 2: So the issue between Blake and Justin it's a little

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Speaker 2: bit complicated and ongoing, but it's actually a pretty interesting

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Speaker 2: story that includes a lot of things that I enjoy,

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Speaker 2: like how celebrities use media and how social media platforms

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Speaker 2: can be weaponized for or against specific people. Email correspondence

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Speaker 2: where people make themselves look terrible in writing because they

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Speaker 2: do not expect those emails to be in a deposition

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Speaker 2: later like that is my favorite thing in the world, like,

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Speaker 2: please continue to put your wrongdoing in writing so that

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Speaker 2: my nosey ask can read it later and be like,

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Speaker 2: ooh messy. So I do encourage like folks to read

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Speaker 2: up on it because it does go beyond just like

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Speaker 2: two celebrities having a feud, but you don't really need

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Speaker 2: to know the specifics for our purposes. The quick and

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Speaker 2: dirty version is that Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni were

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Speaker 2: in a movie adaptation of the very popular novel by

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Speaker 2: Colleen Hoover called It Starts with Us. In December, Lively

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Speaker 2: filed a legal complaint against Baldoni, accusing him of sexual

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Speaker 2: harassment and starting a smear campaign against her. Baldoni strongly

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Speaker 2: denies that and has sued her and response, both camps

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00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 2: have released information like emails, text messages, and video that

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Speaker 2: attempting to make the other look bad.

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Speaker 3: So it has kind of.

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Speaker 2: Turned into one of those ink blot tests that changes

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Speaker 2: depending on whose version you buy. Version one is that

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Speaker 2: Blake Lively was being sexually harassed on set by a

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Speaker 2: fake feminist ally who is actually an abusive man, or

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Speaker 2: version two that Blake Lively is an egomaniac who was

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Speaker 2: using her star power and a list celebrity network like

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Speaker 2: her husband Ryan Reynolds from Deadpool, to control the narrative

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Speaker 2: around her being a nightmare on set and steamrolling everybody

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Speaker 2: on this project. Cool, yes, and so it's what's interesting

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Speaker 2: about this to me is that it's one of those

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Speaker 2: stories where algorithmically it depends on what silo or what

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Speaker 2: pocket of the Internet you're at sure to determine, like,

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Speaker 2: what version of this story you're getting, Like much like

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Speaker 2: Johnny Dep's deformation Losses.

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Speaker 1: Sounds too much like the thing, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and so like for whatever reason, TikTok thinks

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Speaker 2: I hate Blake Lively and want to pour over every

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Speaker 2: nuance of how she is a fraud, right, like, but

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Speaker 2: someone else's TikTok might be like, no, Blake Lively, we

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00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 2: should be supporting her. Like. It's one of those situations

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Speaker 2: where just depending on where you are on the Internet,

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Speaker 2: you might get a very different impression of the public

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Speaker 2: sentiment leaning one brayer or another.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is all the types of things I

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Speaker 1: try to avoid learning about at almost all costs. So

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Speaker 1: I guess I need not you, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I was trying to get to the bottom of

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Speaker 2: it because I kept hearing about it, like everyone was

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Speaker 2: talking about it. So I'm talking to my cousins, who

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Speaker 2: I would lovingly describe as normies, and that they are

439
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 2: not super online.

440
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 3: It's like they're not like you and me. They're not

441
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 3: like deep into the depths of extremism or anything like that.

442
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: No, they're not watching like the Daily Wire for fun

443
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 1: slash four works, yes, yea.

444
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 2: And my cousins are like, oh my god, there is

445
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: this black girl journalist who has been following everything and

446
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 2: breaking it down. She has all the tea will tag you.

447
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 2: That journalist was Candace Owens. Okay, so all right, you

448
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 2: know Candace has been making so many videos off of this,

449
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 2: and like her coverage, if you, coverage in quotes, has

450
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 2: really taken off online. As The Cut put it in

451
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 2: a piece called Candace Owens has gone mainstream. They write,

452
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: the right wing commentator's coverage of the Blake Lively justin

453
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 2: Boldannie case has reached millions of viewers. Owen's podcast was

454
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 2: hours and hours of analysis of the case, deep dives

455
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: into court filings, tabloid news stories, even Ryan Reynolds's recent

456
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 2: SNL Fifthist anniversary special appearance.

457
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 3: One listener said, she's really been.

458
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 2: Able to go in and pinpoint discrepancies and some of

459
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 2: the things Blake Lively ha said, rather than us having

460
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 2: to go through it on our own.

461
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 1: Ah. Of course it's the woman who's lying about being

462
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 1: sexually harassed. Of course.

463
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 2: One listener of her podcast says she recognizes that Owens

464
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 2: seems to have a pro Boldanni bias, but she doesn't

465
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 2: care because quote, she's urging us to look past the

466
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 2: fact that this is not a feminist issue at all,

467
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 2: that it's about getting justice or whoever is being wronged here.

468
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: She's uniting the left and the right. The right wing Women's.

469
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 2: Magazine also published a headline about this, saying how Candice

470
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 2: Owens is uniting conservatives and liberal with her it ends

471
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: with US coverage. So her coverage of this dispute has

472
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 2: really allowed her to attract a lot more viewers beyond

473
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 2: her like normal right wing extremist base, which has generally

474
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 2: been like a lot of white men like that who

475
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 2: was really listening to her content before when she was

476
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 2: with Daily Wire. Now she has really branched out. So

477
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: like normies like my cousins who have no idea who

478
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 2: Owens is, have no idea her background, her past, the

479
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 2: work that she has done, and just think like, oh,

480
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: she's a normal entertainment journalist, like digging and getting the dirt.

481
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 1: I know she's doing this like on her podcast. I

482
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 1: assume YouTube as well. She also just like trying to

483
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: like flood TikTok, trying to flood like Instagram reaches. Is

484
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: this kind of part of how she's trying to like

485
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: expand her reach.

486
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 3: It is like she's everywhere.

487
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 2: And then she has her longer form podcast YouTube, but

488
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 2: then clips of her like you know, breaking down the

489
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 2: top lies or top inaccuracies and things that Blake Lively

490
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: has said. Those go super viral on social media. The

491
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 2: short clips yeah okay, and all of this has been

492
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: just gangbusters for her growth and engagement.

493
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 3: Here's how A cut put it.

494
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 2: Since Owens started covering the Lively Baldani case, her YouTube

495
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 2: channel has exploded in popularity, allowing her to attract a

496
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: much larger fan base than the audience of hardcore conservatives

497
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 2: she is amassed over the years. Each episode about Lively

498
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: racks up at least one point five million views. In

499
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 2: the past month alone, Owen's has a masked more than

500
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 2: four hundred and fifty thousand new subscribers on YouTube, and

501
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 2: her total video views have quadrupled since this time last year.

502
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 2: This is according to data from the platforms Social Blade,

503
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 2: oh No. Over the past three months, her audience on

504
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 2: YouTube has almost started skewing sixty five percent female, according

505
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 2: to data provided by a spokesperson, a market shift from

506
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 2: her past fan base.

507
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: So yeah, she's loading in popularity.

508
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 2: She's everywhere, and now she's attracting like normy women who

509
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: are just coming in for this celebrity dispute.

510
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably not gonna end well huh.

511
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think it will end well.

512
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: You know, I was like racking my brain trying to

513
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: figure out, like, why has this story taken off so

514
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: much for Owen's And there are a couple of reasons.

515
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 3: I think this is like working for her. One.

516
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: I hate to say it, but she is actually genuinely

517
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: interesting to listen to. You know, when she was a

518
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 2: progressive voice online, she definitely was somebody who had a

519
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 2: point of view and a clear voice and a perspective,

520
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: and that really comes through when she's breaking down Blake

521
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: Lively in these videos. She has a way of speaking

522
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: that really makes you pay attention and signals to the listener,

523
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: like this person is really breaking it down. It's the

524
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 2: same reason why on TikTok or social media when someone

525
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 2: is like story time, we're like I'm about to tell

526
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: you all the details of something. Those videos always perform

527
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: very well on social media. And I think that Owens

528
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 2: is just very good at knowing how to hold somebody's

529
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 2: attention online.

530
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 3: Like I have to say it, sure.

531
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: I mean she's been doing the content churn for almost

532
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: a decade now, Like, yeah, you you do get good

533
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: at it on like a technical proficiency level.

534
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 3: Yes.

535
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: Also, you know, we just love good old fashioned misogyny.

536
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 2: And if that misogyny can be laced with like a

537
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 2: conspiracy theory, oh, I.

538
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 3: Think that's it's even better.

539
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: So, like I think that part of this is just

540
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 2: like social media platforms are always going to amplify misogyny.

541
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 2: I would argue that things like misogyny, transphobia, massage, noire,

542
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 2: or racism, all of that is like baked into the

543
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 2: experience of showing up online as a feature, not a bug.

544
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 2: And I think that Omens takes it even further because

545
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 2: she is breaking it down, like she's uncovering some conspiracy.

546
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 2: Like it's not just let's talk about about Blake Lively,

547
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: it's I'm uncovering the web of lies and I'm gonna

548
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: I'm gonna expose Blake Lively's dark truth, right, and so

549
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: like of course that's gonna take off.

550
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: And she does gain this element of authority because she's

551
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: a woman talking about this. It makes men feel better

552
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: about being misogynistic because a woman's telling them it's okay

553
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: to I mean, this is this is the same thing

554
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: that she was able to weaponize for all of her,

555
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: like like you know, anti Black Lives Matter stuff for

556
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,479
Speaker 1: all of her, like like racism isn't real things. She

557
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 1: tries to use that to her advantage, mostly to make

558
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: like white members of her audience like feel good about

559
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: their own racism because a black woman told them it's

560
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: actually okay and like that that's been like a big

561
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: part of her career the past few years exactly that.

562
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: And I think like she really understands that the inviting

563
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: power of taking what you might think of as like

564
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 2: a contrarian stance on something like yeah, totally, like after

565
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 2: the Me Too movement, how many women got engagement by

566
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: taking a contrarian stance right, Like, I think going against

567
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 2: the conventional attitude that says like, oh, we have to

568
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: automatically support the woman in this in this dispute probably

569
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: make people tuning into Omens's breakdowns feel like they're like

570
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 2: free thinkers who are going against the grain, you know,

571
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: by taking an unpopular opinion, which I do think connects

572
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 2: to her more odious stances on things like trans people

573
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: and women and Jewish people.

574
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

575
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: No, I mean, like you see the same thing with

576
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: like you know, like the gaze against groomers thing right

577
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: wing trans influencers de trans influencers. It's the same, like gambit,

578
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: and certainly I think like, yeah, like your identification of

579
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: her as like a professional contrarian is like very very

580
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: key to her success exactly.

581
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: I also think like part of the reason why people

582
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: are attracted to conspiracy theories is that it allows for

583
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: like fantasy world building. And I mean I really see

584
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: the ways that she injects that into her coverage, even

585
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: the word coverage I put that in worlds because like

586
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: she is like a wild person to her coverage is

587
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: like also wild. She does not adhere to, as she

588
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 2: puts it, quote a traditional style.

589
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: Of reporting, you know, I'll take her word for that one,

590
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: you know what, I'll believe her on that single point.

591
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe her. I believe that. You know, she

592
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 3: amplifies rumors. And even once.

593
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: She read a letter that she said that she got

594
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 2: from Blake Lively's husband, Ryan Reynolds, his acting coach when

595
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: he was twelve, and Tone Owens, his acting coach, said

596
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: that Ryan Reynolds was an obnoxious kid.

597
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: You know what, I also believe it.

598
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 3: I Oh, I have no trouble believing that. But like

599
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 3: her coverage, it includes like side.

600
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: Characters, Yeah, things that have no bearing on this whatsoever.

601
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I feel like this, this focus on

602
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: like this, like conspiratorial ben is the same. She's using

603
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: the same tactics she did for her Black Lives Matter

604
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: documentary for like most of her political work. Like it.

605
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: It's she's using the same tactics over and over again,

606
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: and eventually she like reaches this like stress point or

607
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: this like threshold where she cannot see a path forward

608
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: or she can't see a way to surpass it, and

609
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: then she does a pivot. This happened with her progressive blog,

610
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: this happened even at the Daily Wire. She does not

611
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: she doesn't work with turning point us Sadie more and

612
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: like this this new pivot is learning. Hey, it's sup

613
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: super lucrative to be like a tabloid entertainment quote unquote journalist.

614
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: Very easy, super lucrative. And all of the tactics you

615
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: learned on the right wing media sphere work great here,

616
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,479
Speaker 1: like all of this, like conspiratorial thinking really uh, a

617
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: disregard for like like facts and evidence works perfect for

618
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: this sort of like rumor based reporting, and it spreads

619
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: like crazy, And yeah, it spreads across political lines. You

620
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: don't you aren't just targeting the mega people or like

621
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: the far right. This this can be so much more

622
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: broad to like the giant audience of like you know,

623
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: quote unquote, like a political people go to these platforms

624
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: for a form of like of like escapism and entertainment

625
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: rather than just hearing about politics. Yet again, because that's

626
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: you know, very very tiring.

627
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think in my mind all of it

628
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 2: is sort of sort of connected. Like Ben Shapiro, nobody

629
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: cared more about celebrities or talked more about celebrities than

630
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro. He would love to be like, I don't

631
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 2: care what Hollywood is doing but he was obsessed with

632
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 2: like Beyonce and Meg the Stallion, Like it was just

633
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 2: like a negative obsession.

634
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: Like yeah, you know, anti fandom is still fandom.

635
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: When you make video after video about how much you

636
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: don't like Meg thea Stallion in a kind of way,

637
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: you are a fan, just in the opposite direction. And

638
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,239
Speaker 2: so I think that Candace Owens really took that and

639
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: learned how to perfect it because she is much I

640
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,239
Speaker 2: think that she is much better at this than Ben

641
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: Shapiro is.

642
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: Like the evidence being that, like.

643
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: Her YouTube channel is exploding with people who probably would

644
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: never watch any any of Ben Shapiro's content.

645
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: The big bummer for me is that the Daily Wires

646
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: first film, Lady Ballers left us on a cliffhanger with

647
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: Candace Owns and Matt Walsh sitting in a car talking

648
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: about how Matt Walsh planned this entire like plot of

649
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: the film as like as like some kind of scheme

650
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: or like social experiment, and you know, it was implied

651
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: there would be more, you know, it was like a

652
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, like Avengers Nick Fury type post credits scene,

653
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: and now we're never gonna learn what Candice Owans and

654
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: Matt Walsh get up to now because she's left the company.

655
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: She's now doing her own thing. So now we just

656
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: have this dangling plot thread that's just gonna bug me forever,

657
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: Like what does the candae Owan's character at the end

658
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: of Lady Ballers do next. I'm gonna be thinking about

659
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: this for like years.

660
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: America deserves closure, we deserve to know. Just putting that

661
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 2: out there, I think we do deserve closure.

662
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 3: I just think my closure is gonna be a little bit different.

663
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 3: I am.

664
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: I'm very fine having all of these plot threads wrapped

665
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: up quite quickly, but I do not see that in

666
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: the cards immediately.

667
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: So in terms of where she's at now, like you know,

668
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 2: my question is like, has Owens has this kind of

669
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: like mainstream audience that she's been able to amass.

670
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 3: Has she changed her views? She is she trying to

671
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 3: do a rebrand or a pay it.

672
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 2: In an interview, she said, in terms of my perspective,

673
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 2: I haven't changed anything. I've been anti METO since long

674
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: before it was cool.

675
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean that can be true. It's also true

676
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: that she is getting better at propaganda and widening her footprint, which, yeah,

677
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: then once her audience gets bigger, she might be able

678
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: to slip in more things that I would find on

679
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: savory to a larger audience over time. But she also

680
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: might be content to keep growing that and be slightly

681
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: less off putting in the meantime. But no, like there's

682
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: also just a huge audience for like the anti woke backlash,

683
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: anti metwo stuff right now. Like that's kind of that's

684
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: kind of like the new mainstream Frankly, so I am

685
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: certain that she's going to try to continue to like

686
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: flex that and grow that in the in the next

687
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: few months years.

688
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I agree with you. I believe Owens when

689
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: she says that, like her stances have not changed much. Yeah,

690
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 2: easy to be like, oh, well, she's pivoting to go

691
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: mainstream now that she has these like women in her

692
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: audience who are interested in celebrity. And honestly, you can

693
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: sort of see some of this in changes to her

694
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: physical appearance, Like she was sort of known for having

695
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 2: very severe hair, the joke being that she had alienated

696
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: herself so much from her fellow black people that like,

697
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: no black person was going to do her hair and

698
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 2: that's why it looks that way. But lately you've really

699
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: seen this like softening she's kind of going for like

700
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: a softer public look.

701
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 3: She is pivoting to different kinds of programming.

702
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 2: She's branched out into doing a book club for paying

703
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 2: subscribers and some kind of a fitness program.

704
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: That makes sense. Yeah, totally, like the health Guru fitness

705
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: entertainment bubble. Yeah that's huge.

706
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 3: That's such a good grift. She's gonna make so much money.

707
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she is.

708
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 3: But I really.

709
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: Agree with you, gaire that, like, I think that these

710
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: new followers are certainly going to be walked down a

711
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 2: pipeline that includes her extremist attitude just using celebrity scandal

712
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: as a hook, because, like as you said, celebrity scandals

713
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 2: and celebrity stories are disconsidered fluff for a lot of people,

714
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 2: Like people who care about extremist content and ideology are

715
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: maybe not seeing that as a space that they need

716
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 2: to pay too close of attention to about these stories

717
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 2: that you might see on the cover of an US weekly.

718
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: But these stories actually.

719
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: Can be used to tap into extremist ideologies and unleash

720
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: them in a whole new audience. I'm like, yeah, like

721
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 2: you were saying, if you are just like watching a

722
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: podcast because you're want to be entertained about a story

723
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: about two celebrities, you might not have your like bullshit

724
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: detector up to be like, wait, is this extremist content

725
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: because it's it's seen and treated as a less charge space,

726
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 2: and so you know that line of thinking that says

727
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: that you know, this is just fluff. It doesn't really matter.

728
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 2: What happens in celebrity news is not that it's incorrect.

729
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: It is dangerous because it lends itself to people being

730
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 2: more susceptible to it when extremist content is slipped in

731
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 2: without even really realizing it.

732
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: I mean, and like that relates even to like the

733
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: originator of this gamer gate stuff and the whole like

734
00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: anti woke like media fandom content sphere right where so

735
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: much of like the anti book backlash has been built

736
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: on people complaining that Star Wars is two woke. Now,

737
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: there's too many women in movies, there's too many black

738
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: people in commercials, where do all the white people go,

739
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: There's too many gay people in TV, there's too many

740
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: trans people in TV, and like that is it is

741
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: definitely focused on by the rest of the Daily Wire goons,

742
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: and you can very easily pivot back to that sort

743
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: of cultural commentary after you're done talking about Blake Lively,

744
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: like this is this is a very small jump where

745
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: you're still talking about the entertainment industry, but with this

746
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: like anti woke framing of like, you know, why is

747
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: all these minorities here, why are they pushing transgenderism on kids?

748
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: You know, whether that be talking about you know, transactors

749
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: in the business, whether you be talking about you know,

750
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: like female lead or like diversity casting, like all all

751
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff that especially Candice can use her

752
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: like contrarian position to speak on authority about talking about

753
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 1: why are you recasting these legacy characters to be people

754
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: of color? Or why is of a woman the lead

755
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 1: of this thing when it should be actually a man?

756
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: You know, just like very very basic stuff that's been

757
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: a part of like the YouTube slop for a decade now,

758
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 1: but it's still like still takes in a lot of

759
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: a lot of clips and it is it is a

760
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: lot of like the Daily Wire and like right wing

761
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: content still still does it's all this like weird like

762
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: culture war stuff. It's very very tightened with Hollywood. Like

763
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: you were saying about how like Ben Shapiro claims to

764
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: you know, like hate Hollywood. He's trying to build his

765
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: own alternative to it, but he can't stop talking about it,

766
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: like he can't stop complaining about Disney's snow White. And

767
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: I can see Candice doing like the exact same thing,

768
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: but now with like an honestly like a bigger, a bigger,

769
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: more like a political audience that's much more malleable and

770
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: can be shaped around these like larger cultural trends. When

771
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,919
Speaker 1: you think about this like perception of this backlash against wokeness.

772
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 3: I absolutely think that's what we're gonna see.

773
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 2: And I can tell you we can finish by I

774
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: can tell you about her next big pet issue, which is, yeah,

775
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: championing Harvey Weinstein, who she is no.

776
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: No, no, So.

777
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 2: She's been interviewing him since twenty twenty two, according to

778
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 2: The Hollywood Reporter. She explains, while he is quote an

779
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: immoral man, he is also.

780
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,720
Speaker 3: Am a justice system, a victim, sure.

781
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: Victim, And she says, I've always had faith in our

782
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 2: court system, and now it's beginning to change. Now I'm

783
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 2: beginning to wonder if our courtrooms have been politicized. And

784
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 2: the thing that's made her think this is Harvey.

785
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 3: Weinstein it's wild.

786
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: I mean, like Ben Shapiro is starting his own campaign

787
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: to free Derek Chauvin. I think there's gonna be a

788
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: lot of pressure on the courts right now. I mean

789
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 1: you're seeing that from like Elon and Trump as well.

790
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: I think undermining the authority of the court I think

791
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: is actually kind of part of this larger concerted issue

792
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: amongst the entirety of the right right now, because this

793
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: is like their biggest remaining roadblock to achieving their right

794
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: wing utopia is the court system. And I you know,

795
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: this may not be intentional on every person's part, like

796
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro and the zones aren't aren't like intentionally collaborating

797
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: on this, but they may be copying each other's trends.

798
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: And if they're seeing this this wider push across a

799
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: large amount of like the right wing content people to

800
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: put pressure on various aspects of the courts, including by

801
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: using like high profile cases like Harvey Weinstein or Derek Shulvin,

802
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: that's that's not a great sign. And I can I

803
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: can definitely see them trying to trying to do that

804
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: in conjunction. I guess yeah.

805
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: I think we're going to see a lot more of it.

806
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 2: Candice has a series coming out called Harvey Speaks that

807
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 2: apparently tells his side of the story, So look out

808
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: for that. And I think that's the thing, like I

809
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: think with her content, Like when asked why it was

810
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 2: she thought that her Blake Lively stuff was really taking off,

811
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 2: she says that she believes her new fans on the

812
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: left quote have just kind of gotten whise to the

813
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: fact that maybe women lie just like men. And so

814
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 2: I just implore folks that, like, even if you think

815
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 2: that you're just like retaking in this content because you're

816
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 2: following fluffy celebrity news or whatever, it is so easy

817
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: to go from maybe women lie to maybe women can't

818
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: be trusted, or maybe women shouldn't work and have jobs,

819
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: a stance at Candace herself is actually advocated for, despite

820
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,439
Speaker 2: very obviously being a working woman. And so I don't

821
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 2: think we should trust Candace Owens even if she does

822
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 2: this rebrand, Like, no, don't let her rebrand herself as

823
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: like just a celebrity investigative journalist.

824
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 3: Like she put all of these odious views.

825
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: Out into the world, and I don't want her to

826
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: be able to like soften it or you know, soften

827
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: what it is that she advocates for, what it is

828
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: that she believes in, if that is truly what she's

829
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 2: trying to do to just sort of like a mass

830
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: of more mainstream audience.

831
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 3: So don't fall for it.

832
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 2: If you're if you're getting tagged in Candace Owens videos,

833
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 2: just know what she actually is about.

834
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think I think for our audience,

835
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: it's it's more likely that you'll have like family members

836
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: who are going to be finding this stuff. And you

837
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: should find a list of sources. Maybe this episode included,

838
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: but probably you know, you can find some articles as

839
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: well that think of some background on Candace's history and

840
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: previous beliefs, can pick and choose some of her most

841
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: like outrageous claims. So when your aunt sends you a

842
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: video about how Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively are kidnapping

843
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: children or something, you can you can maybe inform Aunt

844
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: Judy that maybe you shouldn't listen to everything this Candice

845
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 1: Owan's character is saying.

846
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, this Candice Owans might not be on the money,

847
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: might not be on the level. No, yeah, inform an

848
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 2: Auntie today, Yes that's right, and that's all I got.

849
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 3: That's it. I don't know how. You usually end these episodes.

850
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: Usually by getting sad, but I don't know. This has

851
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: been been an an interesting dive into the life of

852
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 1: a woman with many, many careers, many a chameleon, many personalities,

853
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: a chameleon, a chameleon of contrarianism.

854
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 3: Oh, I like that. If I ever write a book

855
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 3: about her, that'll be the title.

856
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. Oh what a nightmare that would be. Man

857
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: scary Bridget Where can people find you online?

858
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 2: You can find me on my podcast. There are our

859
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 2: girls on the internet on this network. iHeartRadio. I mean,

860
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 2: you can find me on Instagram at bridget Ran DC

861
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 2: or on Blue Sky at bridget Time.

862
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, good luck in d C.

863
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for holding holding the line out there as Elon

864
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 1: puts a kildozer through your entire city.

865
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 3: We're doing our best.

866
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 1: I would would love to talk again about a DC update.

867
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe next time you come on the show. My God, yes, please,

868
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: there we go, Well we will, we will talk then goodbye, everybody.

869
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 3: It could happen.

870
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

871
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot

872
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

873
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 1: or wherever.

874
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 2: You listen to podcasts can now find sources for it

875
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 2: could happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions.

876
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.