WEBVTT - A Medical Perspective On Protest Safety 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:05.000 All media. 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:11.280 Sometimes there is a topic that is too big for 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:17.880 just one podcaster. Sometimes a simple medical podcaster, a simple 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:22.040 wartime journalist can't handle a topic on their own. They 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:25.720 need to combine forces. A special team up has to happen. 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:28.920 And that, my friends, is what's happening today on this 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.080 special crossover edition of the House of Pod and it 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:40.200 could happen here in hop Ich Hoppitch special myself, doctor 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.280 cave Hote Hope I'm saying the correctly and James Stout 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.239 are going to be talking to you along with two 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:51.200 very special guests about what's happening out there in the protests, 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:55.320 what risks the protesters are facing, what health concerns we 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:58.200 have for them, how they can best prepare and more. 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.480 James, Hey, buddy, Hey, it's nice, nice to be podcasting 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:03.040 with you again. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:05.800 You really enjoy our team ups here, our special Marvel 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:06.720 team ups that we do. 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:09.680 It's a fun one. You're my favorite collaborator. 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.440 Cove Hey, I'm going to take that as total sincerity, 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.760 even though I'm not entirely sure. So I thank you 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.119 for that. Yeah, because I think that sounded sincere enough. 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.120 I like these I like you me too. 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:21.640 I do too. 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.119 Let's introduce our guests. We have some very special guests. 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.240 I will actually ask you guys to introduce yourselves. Let's 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.240 start with you, Miriam. Can you tell us a little 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:34.039 bit about who you are and what your background in 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:35.560 this field is. 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.360 Sure, Hi, I'm Miriam. I use she or they pronouns. 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.720 My background in the field of podcasting is that I'm 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.880 with the collective Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness, which puts 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.000 out the podcast Live Like the World Is Dying, as 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:51.760 well as the podcast Strangers and a Tangled Wilderness and 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:56.360 the spectacle. And my experience in the field of what 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:58.720 I think we're here to talk about today is that 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.160 I've been a street medic for over a decade, which 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.080 means I've treated a lot of injuries on people who've 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.560 been messed up by interactions with police. 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:09.080 I mean, we're going to talk about this more, but 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.840 my first question is is it pretty much ninety percent 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.800 or more violence from the police that you encounter. Do 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:20.240 you ever encounter anything else, like violence amongst protesters themselves 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:22.840 or something else that happens along the way, or is 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:27.280 it solely what you're experiencing is treating violence from the. 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:28.320 Side of the police. 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:33.520 So that's a good question. It is mostly violence from police. 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:38.240 Sometimes it is violence from non state affiliated or at 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:42.880 least not on duty fascists so you know, you're proud boys, 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:47.280 you know, other people like that, or just generally sort 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:51.960 of hostile right wing actors. Sometimes it is also, you know, 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.799 sort of underlying medical stuff more so, like somebody has 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:57.920 been out at the march all day and they didn't 0:02:57.919 --> 0:02:59.760 bring their medication with them and so they're having a 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.800 sea sure, and you know, then there's also environmental stuff. 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.720 You hate, stroke, your hypothermia, you're I was running to 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:09.520 catch up with the march and I stepped off the curb, 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.800 weird ow, you know, stuff like that. But in terms 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:15.880 of violence, yeah, it's it's mostly coming from the cops. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.640 I've I've certainly never seen a friendly fire incident of 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:24.720 violence amongst amongst protesters. I'm sure it could happen, but 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.520 but I have not seen it. I have seen people 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.800 that I'm in the streets with or wherever with attacked 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.799 by by people who wish them harm, who are people 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:37.760 from the state or you know, like I said, not 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.880 currently on duty as cops, but you know, basically cops. 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:44.120 No, I'm digressing too far, and I need to introduce 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.720 her other guests. But I have another follow up question 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:48.760 and I need to ask. I'm so curious, please, have 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.440 you ever had to take care of, say, someone on 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:53.720 the other side who's been injured. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.360 So as anybody who works in any kind of emergency, 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.840 you know, medical response will tell you. Anybody who's an 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:05.320 EMT or even anybody who's like a lifeguard, the first 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.800 thing you do before you approach a patient is established 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:13.200 scene safety. So if a Nazi has been hurt, it 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:15.640 is not safe for me to approach that patient because 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:17.040 there's a Nazi over there. 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.040 I see, Okay, I think I'm picking up what you're 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:21.360 putting down on that one. 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:23.279 So it has not happened. 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.719 Yeah, anybody who is acting as a street medic is 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.159 acting under what it called a good Samaritan laws, you know, 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.440 which protects you from any kind of bad outcome. If 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.839 you start taking care of somebody, you know, start helping 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.240 somebody out in the streets based on whatever training you. 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:39.520 Have, you know. 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:41.599 Same thing like if if somebody collapses at a bus 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.480 stop and you start doing CPR based on the Red 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:49.560 Cross class you took, that's good Samaritan stuff. Same way, 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:53.680 it does not obligate you to intervene, especially in approaching 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:57.280 somebody who is actively seeking to do you harm. So 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.200 I would not consider that within my within my lane. 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:02.160 Understood. 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.679 Well, let's introduce our second guest. We have doctor Richard Pharaoh, 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.760 who is a doctor in the Los Angeles area and 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.359 is a family practice physician. 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.760 May I call you Richard? Uh? Yeah, you may? Okay, 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:17.880 very good, Richard, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.120 Goby, it's a pleasure to be on. You know, you 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:22.680 kind of mentioned it already. I'm Keelly medicine. I've also 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:28.280 experienced in street medicine in the LA area. Also, you know, 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.599 this is obviously something that's really important to me right 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.200 now given everything that's been going on in the city, 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:35.839 and also important for me just giving the fact that 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.120 I'm a Latino, I'm a proud Coasta Rican Cuban, and 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.440 just that's part of the huge reason why I'm in medicine. 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.640 So I'm really happy to have an opportunity to talk about, 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:47.840 you know, the ice protests and the stuff that's been 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:49.280 going on to protect our community. 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:50.120 That's great to hear. 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.559 Can you tell us a little bit about what you've 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.560 been involved with recently down in Los Angeles. 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.839 So I as far as what I've been involved in 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:01.839 Los Angeles, you know, I've been coordinating with some of 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:06.040 my colleagues who I knew from residency and just other 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:08.840 colleagues just who are all involved in social justice, as 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:13.040 well as the CIR, the Physicians Union, you know, who 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.240 are engaged in trying to like provide medical support to 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.240 the protests in the area. So I've had experience working 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.240 on some of the protests that have occurred both in 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:23.599 LA and OC. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.960 Yeah, that's really good to hear. I think people will 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:31.120 have been spending a lot of time like watching footage 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.320 the protests right in the last I know what we 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.480 weekend now, Fuck knows, it seems like a long time. 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:39.839 I haven't been sleeping very much. 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:42.800 Give her take eight to twelve years. 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.839 Time has meant nothing. Yeah, March of twenty. 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:49.520 Twenty, Yeah, yes, exactly. Yeah, it is flat sixteenth, twenty twenty, 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.120 and here we are. I people would have seen a 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.880 lot of people get hurt, right And I, like I said, journalist, 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.279 like I was in LA last week, you kind of 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.920 tend to get towards the more violent end of things 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.039 because that is our job. Most people who go to 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.440 protest don't get hurt, right, And I don't want people 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.840 to hear anything we're saying today and think, oh God, 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:13.920 I'm going to get fucked up, because most people don't 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.040 get fucked up. And like my STUNTI is that you 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.560 don't fight fascist because you think you're going to win 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:21.920 or you think you might not get hurt. You fight 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:26.600 fascist because they are fascists. And sometimes people do get hurt. 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.320 So let's talk about the ways that people get hurt. 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.280 Either of you is welcome to answer this, but like, 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:37.200 what are some of the common mechanisms of injury that 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:40.400 you see when you are out there street medic king, 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:42.760 when the cops are out there hurting people. 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.280 I would say that like in terms of the things 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:47.880 that we would typically see, I just want to start 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.040 off by saying, like, absolutely, we're not out there just 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.880 because we know that we're going to be successful in 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.360 any type of advocacy. If that was the case, then 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:01.760 we wouldn't have that many people. You know on that front. 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.120 You know a lot of people know that it's you 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.240 might be losing ground, but you're not there because you're 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:07.920 trying to when you're doing it because you know that 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.000 you want to be on the right side of history. 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:12.840 You want to do the thing that you believe to 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.920 be morally right. As far as like the type of 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.000 injuries that you would typically see, I think in order 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:19.600 to answer this question, I would kind of break it 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:24.120 off into two sections, Like you have mainly protests that 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:28.720 have not evolved into violent confrontations with law enforcement, and 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.600 you have protests where things like you know, for instance, 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.560 riot control agents have been deployed in like the like 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.160 the non you know, dangerous side of things, like you 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:40.920 might have the kind of stuff that you would encounter 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:45.200 in any sort of major events. You know, you're going 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.520 to deal with dehydration, You're going to deal with people 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.440 who are, like in an overcrowded areas that might you know, 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.719 accidentally fall hit and trip over one another. In those 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.440 kind of circumstances, you know, when we enter into the 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:00.600 space where you know, riot control agents are being involved, 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.080 the quote unquote less lethals non lethals, which I'm going 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:05.520 to kind of go into later, is a bit of 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:10.839 a non a misnomer. In those circumstances we look at 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.640 like chemical exposure to things like tear gas, you know, 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:16.800 there's a lot of different ways that that manifests that 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:18.520 type of exposure, and we can kind of get into 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:20.800 that a little bit as well. And then also we 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:25.760 have you know, projectile weapons like rubber bullets, you know, flashbangs, 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.800 those type of things that you might encounter, you know, 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.600 like sort of blunt trauma to people's bodies. 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:33.840 Yeah, and you'd like to add, Miriam. 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.000 I mean, first of all, like you're doing great out there. 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.280 Good for you for being out there. It's a hell 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:43.600 of a time. There's regional variation, I think to some 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.360 of the stuff that we see. So I am based 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.760 in New York City, not you know, not all of 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:51.640 this the work I've done has been in New York City, 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.480 but most of it has And in New York City 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.480 we don't have tear gas. They just don't do it 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.880 here because the police found out after plowing tear gas 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:05.120 extensively during the RNC that the thing about tear gas 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.880 is it gets sucked into vents, and when it gets 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.880 sucked into vents, it gets on all kinds of people 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.800 in the subway and in buildings, and that that causes 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.880 lawsuits and the NYPD does not enjoy that, so they 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:23.000 use pepper spray instead, because pepper spray is more directed, 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.199 it doesn't linger in the air the same way. You 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:28.640 hit the people that you are trying to hit, you know, 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.680 and anybody else who's walking by, and also your buddies 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.320 who are standing next to you, because you fired into 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.079 the wind, which is always a good time. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.120 Any such cases, Yeah. 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.320 So many, There's a there's a whole series of what 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:46.280 we are calling locally pepper pigs, which are pepper pigs. 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.920 It's what you think it is. So yeah, we see 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.000 a lot of a lot of pepper spray. We also 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.160 because one of the primary weapons of the NYPD are 0:10:56.240 --> 0:11:00.240 just sheer, overwhelming numbers, we see a lot of of 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:05.400 just direct hands on violence, just cops hitting people, punching people, 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.600 throwing people to the ground. We see a lot of 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:12.320 very rough takedowns. Now if you're you know, acting as 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:14.920 a street medic and in that situation, you don't get 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.800 to treat those people because if they are taking down 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.920 by a cop, that they are then swarmed by many 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.760 other cops and they get taken away, then that's something 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.200 that we might see when we meet that person later 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.840 at jail support. But the other weapon that we used 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.960 to see quite a bit, but haven't in more recent years. 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.640 Is the l RAT, which is a sound cannon. They 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:38.880 do still use it, but they use it to like 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:43.000 make announcements and annoy people. They use it to like 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:47.480 make obnoxiously loud announcements, but not to blast out people's 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:52.400 ear drums, which was sort of its weaponized form. We 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.480 haven't seen that recently though police will will you know, 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.439 they all carry tasers. You don't tend to see a 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:00.880 lot of that at protests, but it's certainly something that 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.560 we're constantly aware that they have the ability to do. 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:11.439 But yeah, it is here. It's mostly pepper spray, nightsticks, fists, knees, 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:13.400 you know that kind of thing. 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.280 I would assume that a lot of what they'd do, like, 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:22.600 for example, tear gas was, to my understanding, first developed 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:27.120 in World War One, really to cause confusion amongst the enemy. 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.760 And what I assume a lot of these things that 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.560 they're using, the sound canons is to create panic and 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:38.960 confusion and hopefully get people to run and move in mass, 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:43.360 unorganized ways. And I wonder if you're seeing crush injuries, 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.560 if you're seeing injuries related to just the people moving 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.000 and being scattered around and running in different directions. Is 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:53.320 that something that you have seen in this process, either 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:53.520 of you. 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:56.600 Yeah, Well, just real quick, like to the first thing 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.000 you said, the absolute like the purpose of every place 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:04.000 weapon is to cause fear. One of the reasons that 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.960 I think they so often use things like tear gas 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.720 and pepper spray when they could simply choose to not 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.160 is like one, because they have it because their budgets 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.760 are outrageous and they have, you know, all the weapons 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.319 they could ever dream of, and why not, you know, well, 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.360 we have it. But I think that the other reason 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.880 they use it is because it does freak people out. 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:27.199 It scares people, and so you know a lot of 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.760 people have had like a big dude shove them before. 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.280 You know. That's like not a super unfamiliar situation. It's 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.280 not a great situation. People don't like it, but they 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.800 kind of they're familiar with it. They're familiar with the 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.960 concept getting sprayed by a mysterious chemical that makes you 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.680 feel a thing you've never really felt before. That's a 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:49.520 lot scarier, and you don't know what's in it. You 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.640 don't know what's on your body, you don't know why 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.160 it hurts the way it hurts, like you just know, like, oh, yeah, 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:55.720 I mean, I guess, I guess this is what tear 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:57.600 gas feels like. I guess this is what pepper spray 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:02.040 feels like. It's frightening. And yeah, people absolutely get hurt 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:06.200 running away. It makes it difficult to see. Like squeezing 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.439 your eyes shut is like a very immediate reaction. So 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:14.320 people run, They lose whoever they were at the action with, 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.320 they get separated from their group, they get disoriented, they 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.000 may be having trouble breathing. They may be panicking because 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.560 they're having trouble breathing. Then they're having trouble breathing because 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.200 they're panicking, you know. So yeah, you do absolutely see 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:26.640 all of that. 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:28.880 Yeah, I mean, I really want to second what what 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.040 Miriam has been saying here. You know, as far as 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.480 like the most common agent that you see in tear 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.600 gas in the United States at this time, it's believed 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.040 to be agent CS. And this is something, like you mentioned, 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.720 it was developed right around the time of World War Two. 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.200 They started like be coming into effect the the in 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.800 like the late fifties. A point of thought for this 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:52.480 is it was actually made legal for use in warfare 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.920 in the nineties by the Geneva Convention. So you don't 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.920 see the US or other armies like using this on SOULDI, 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.240 but we're using it in protests. 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:07.200 Well you don't. You don't necessarily see the US military 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:09.240 following the Geneva Convention. 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:11.880 Okay, well we can. That's a fair point. 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.560 Yeah, of the walls of low ta gas is one 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.840 that it is walls of low Those wool people do 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.560 be using ta gas sometimes, but yeah, they shouldn't be. 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:21.920 Yeah, and you're right. 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.280 Is first in the Geneva Conventions in nineteen twenty five, 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:29.280 but then nineteen ninety seven specifically it was prohibited. The 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.600 thought behind that is they did it because they didn't 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:36.360 want someone to get one gas and not know exactly 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.040 what it was and then use the really nasty stuff 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.720 like sirm gas, et cetera. And the reason our police 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.920 are able to do it on our protesters is because 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.520 they're pretty confident that our protesters don't have when they 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.280 use siren gas, so they feel they feel free to 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.760 use it at our But speaking of sound canyons and 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:59.880 disturbing noises being shot into your ear holes, commercials will 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:00.520 be right back. 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:12.040 All right, we're back. 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.520 We should talk about noxious gases. There has been this 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.640 persistent rumor. I don't just mean in the last like 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.680 ten days, there's been a persistent rumor every time that 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.800 people have been tear gassed that this time the cops 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:29.400 are using super tear gas, special tear gas, cancer tear gas. 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.520 To be clear, like the effects of tear gas on people, 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.240 especially to my understanding, like people who menstrate, are fucking 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:41.040 long term and nasty. So let's just address like what 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.560 are the reagents in tear gas and what are some 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.840 of the outcomes we can expect short term and long term? 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.440 And then do we suspect that the cops are using 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:51.120 super tier gas this time? 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.560 Well, I guess in terms of like the agent, like 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.479 we kind of mentioned it a little bit ago on AGENCS, 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:02.440 the more complicated long name oh klaura laden melanitril. So 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.400 it's actually it's so that's absolutely the kind of thing 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:11.040 you talk about in dinner conversations. But the compound itself, 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.240 it's actually not in a gas form. It's actually a solid. 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:19.040 It's a crystalline substance that's released that's aerosolized after any 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.199 type of like explosion from you know, a grenade or 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.840 canister and it's as far as you know the types 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.119 of things that you will experience. It takes effect in 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.280 the first twenty sixty seconds of contact with the body. 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:35.000 It's a nucleophilic substance, so that means it will adhere 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:39.120 to tears, it'll adhere to moisture on your skin, like sweat, 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.919 any type of like saliva or mucus, and like the 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.760 first things you'll typically notice are the tearing, the redness, burning, 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:50.840 blurred vision in your eyes. Specifically on your skin, you 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.640 could develop burns or rash. A contact dermatitis has also 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.119 been associated with a development of this on your skin, 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.480 burning irritation in your mouth. You can also devel running 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.520 knows the more kind of more serious long term effects 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.720 that can be more systemic. You can actually develop shortness 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.920 of breath, wheezing, or chest tightness. You can also develop 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.560 nausea or vomiting if you ingest much of it while 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.480 you're in the protest and you kind of already brought 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.200 it up as well. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.840 of systemic research that has been done on the impacts 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:27.840 of agents like cs that are in tear gas on people, 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.680 but we have a couple of things that have come 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.560 up about pregnancy outcomes. We do see increased rates of 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:38.280 uterine cramping, menstrual bleeding, breast tenderness, and delayed menstrual cramping 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:42.200 as well in pregnancy. We also don't know how well 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.199 it crosses into breast milk, so you know, it's this 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.000 kind of challenging question, and the CDC is official like 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.160 stance on it is this idea that like they don't 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.520 believe that it crosses. But again, we don't have that research, 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:55.680 so we can't know for sure. 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:59.080 Great cool, good thing to be fogging Loud City blogs with. 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:04.360 Yeah, well we don't know everything it does, so probably 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.040 some of it is fine, you. 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.600 Know, James, when you're mentioning how it keeps coming up 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.120 and there's these concerns of there being like a cause 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.480 and cancer. We have no proof of that right now, 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.119 but I mean we really don't know, so it is 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:20.320 a little concerning long term, especially journalists like yourself who 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:25.200 are exposed to it a lot, so that that is 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:26.640 something I would love to see. 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:28.080 But I mean, how you're going to study. 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.159 It, you're going to find that, Yeah, I mean I 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:31.439 don't know. 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.520 Rfka Junior might who knows it might be like, we're 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.480 not funding real research anymore like vaccine. 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:39.480 So if we get on the right podcast, we could 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:40.480 probably make that happen. 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.040 So before we move off of the gas, let's just 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:48.119 talk about treatment of it and what you guys, what 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.200 you will do out there in the field someone comes 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.720 to you, and let's try to address some of the 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.240 most common misconceptions about what you should be treating or 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:57.080 how you should be treating. 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:05.440 Yeah, yeah, ready to go. Since forever, there have been 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:10.359 like rumors that there are these I think because of 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.639 sort of the way that it is mysterious, like the 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:17.800 cops have these, like, you know, containers of this awful poisonous, 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.399 magical potion that they spray on you and then we 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:24.480 have to find the antidote. So things that I have 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:28.359 heard as being good for tear gas and pepper spray 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:40.600 include raw onion, lemon juice, apple cider, vinegar, coca cola, avocado. 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:42.960 Far it sounds sounds like a nice. 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:48.159 Great actually, and then the classic milk as well as maylocks. 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.760 My personal favorite is when somebody like jumps into correct 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:54.960 somebody on milk and it's like no, no, no, actually 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.159 it's milk of magnesia, not regular milk. 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:03.440 So oh, you got to get it from a which is. 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.399 What you actually do is flush out the eyes with water. 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.080 I mean, that's it. That's the only thing. It's water. 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:16.760 The number of things that should go into a human 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:22.360 eye are basically water and any medicine that is designed 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.320 for the human eye, and saline solution. I guess you know. 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:27.840 And definitely you could do an eye flush with saline. 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.560 It's just that if you have sailine in your bag, 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:34.760 it weighs just as much as water, and you can't 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:37.920 drink it when you get tired. You can and what 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:42.080 you can, but it's not recommended, and you can't refill 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:42.800