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Speaker 1: All media.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes there is a topic that is too big for

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Speaker 2: just one podcaster. Sometimes a simple medical podcaster, a simple

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Speaker 2: wartime journalist can't handle a topic on their own. They

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Speaker 2: need to combine forces. A special team up has to happen.

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Speaker 2: And that, my friends, is what's happening today on this

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Speaker 2: special crossover edition of the House of Pod and it

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Speaker 2: could happen here in hop Ich Hoppitch special myself, doctor

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Speaker 2: cave Hote Hope I'm saying the correctly and James Stout

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Speaker 2: are going to be talking to you along with two

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Speaker 2: very special guests about what's happening out there in the protests,

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Speaker 2: what risks the protesters are facing, what health concerns we

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Speaker 2: have for them, how they can best prepare and more.

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Speaker 1: James, Hey, buddy, Hey, it's nice, nice to be podcasting

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Speaker 1: with you again.

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Speaker 3: You really enjoy our team ups here, our special Marvel

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Speaker 3: team ups that we do.

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Speaker 1: It's a fun one. You're my favorite collaborator.

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Speaker 2: Cove Hey, I'm going to take that as total sincerity,

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Speaker 2: even though I'm not entirely sure. So I thank you

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Speaker 2: for that. Yeah, because I think that sounded sincere enough.

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Speaker 2: I like these I like you me too.

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Speaker 3: I do too.

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Speaker 2: Let's introduce our guests. We have some very special guests.

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Speaker 2: I will actually ask you guys to introduce yourselves. Let's

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Speaker 2: start with you, Miriam. Can you tell us a little

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Speaker 2: bit about who you are and what your background in

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Speaker 2: this field is.

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Speaker 4: Sure, Hi, I'm Miriam. I use she or they pronouns.

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Speaker 4: My background in the field of podcasting is that I'm

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Speaker 4: with the collective Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness, which puts

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Speaker 4: out the podcast Live Like the World Is Dying, as

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Speaker 4: well as the podcast Strangers and a Tangled Wilderness and

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Speaker 4: the spectacle. And my experience in the field of what

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Speaker 4: I think we're here to talk about today is that

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Speaker 4: I've been a street medic for over a decade, which

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Speaker 4: means I've treated a lot of injuries on people who've

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Speaker 4: been messed up by interactions with police.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we're going to talk about this more, but

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Speaker 2: my first question is is it pretty much ninety percent

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Speaker 2: or more violence from the police that you encounter. Do

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Speaker 2: you ever encounter anything else, like violence amongst protesters themselves

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Speaker 2: or something else that happens along the way, or is

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Speaker 2: it solely what you're experiencing is treating violence from the.

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Speaker 3: Side of the police.

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Speaker 4: So that's a good question. It is mostly violence from police.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes it is violence from non state affiliated or at

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Speaker 4: least not on duty fascists so you know, you're proud boys,

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Speaker 4: you know, other people like that, or just generally sort

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Speaker 4: of hostile right wing actors. Sometimes it is also, you know,

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Speaker 4: sort of underlying medical stuff more so, like somebody has

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Speaker 4: been out at the march all day and they didn't

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Speaker 4: bring their medication with them and so they're having a

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Speaker 4: sea sure, and you know, then there's also environmental stuff.

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Speaker 4: You hate, stroke, your hypothermia, you're I was running to

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Speaker 4: catch up with the march and I stepped off the curb,

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Speaker 4: weird ow, you know, stuff like that. But in terms

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Speaker 4: of violence, yeah, it's it's mostly coming from the cops.

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Speaker 4: I've I've certainly never seen a friendly fire incident of

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Speaker 4: violence amongst amongst protesters. I'm sure it could happen, but

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Speaker 4: but I have not seen it. I have seen people

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Speaker 4: that I'm in the streets with or wherever with attacked

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Speaker 4: by by people who wish them harm, who are people

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Speaker 4: from the state or you know, like I said, not

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Speaker 4: currently on duty as cops, but you know, basically cops.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm digressing too far, and I need to introduce

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Speaker 2: her other guests. But I have another follow up question

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Speaker 2: and I need to ask. I'm so curious, please, have

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Speaker 2: you ever had to take care of, say, someone on

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Speaker 2: the other side who's been injured.

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Speaker 4: So as anybody who works in any kind of emergency,

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Speaker 4: you know, medical response will tell you. Anybody who's an

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Speaker 4: EMT or even anybody who's like a lifeguard, the first

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Speaker 4: thing you do before you approach a patient is established

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Speaker 4: scene safety. So if a Nazi has been hurt, it

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Speaker 4: is not safe for me to approach that patient because

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Speaker 4: there's a Nazi over there.

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Speaker 2: I see, Okay, I think I'm picking up what you're

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Speaker 2: putting down on that one.

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Speaker 3: So it has not happened.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, anybody who is acting as a street medic is

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Speaker 4: acting under what it called a good Samaritan laws, you know,

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Speaker 4: which protects you from any kind of bad outcome. If

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Speaker 4: you start taking care of somebody, you know, start helping

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Speaker 4: somebody out in the streets based on whatever training you.

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Speaker 3: Have, you know.

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Speaker 4: Same thing like if if somebody collapses at a bus

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Speaker 4: stop and you start doing CPR based on the Red

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Speaker 4: Cross class you took, that's good Samaritan stuff. Same way,

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Speaker 4: it does not obligate you to intervene, especially in approaching

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Speaker 4: somebody who is actively seeking to do you harm. So

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Speaker 4: I would not consider that within my within my lane.

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Speaker 3: Understood.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's introduce our second guest. We have doctor Richard Pharaoh,

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Speaker 2: who is a doctor in the Los Angeles area and

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Speaker 2: is a family practice physician.

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Speaker 3: May I call you Richard? Uh? Yeah, you may? Okay,

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Speaker 3: very good, Richard, welcome to the show. Thank you very much.

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Speaker 5: Goby, it's a pleasure to be on. You know, you

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Speaker 5: kind of mentioned it already. I'm Keelly medicine. I've also

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Speaker 5: experienced in street medicine in the LA area. Also, you know,

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Speaker 5: this is obviously something that's really important to me right

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Speaker 5: now given everything that's been going on in the city,

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Speaker 5: and also important for me just giving the fact that

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Speaker 5: I'm a Latino, I'm a proud Coasta Rican Cuban, and

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Speaker 5: just that's part of the huge reason why I'm in medicine.

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Speaker 5: So I'm really happy to have an opportunity to talk about,

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Speaker 5: you know, the ice protests and the stuff that's been

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Speaker 5: going on to protect our community.

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Speaker 3: That's great to hear.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about what you've

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Speaker 2: been involved with recently down in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 5: So I as far as what I've been involved in

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Speaker 5: Los Angeles, you know, I've been coordinating with some of

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Speaker 5: my colleagues who I knew from residency and just other

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Speaker 5: colleagues just who are all involved in social justice, as

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Speaker 5: well as the CIR, the Physicians Union, you know, who

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Speaker 5: are engaged in trying to like provide medical support to

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Speaker 5: the protests in the area. So I've had experience working

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Speaker 5: on some of the protests that have occurred both in

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Speaker 5: LA and OC.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really good to hear. I think people will

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Speaker 1: have been spending a lot of time like watching footage

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Speaker 1: the protests right in the last I know what we

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Speaker 1: weekend now, Fuck knows, it seems like a long time.

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Speaker 1: I haven't been sleeping very much.

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Speaker 3: Give her take eight to twelve years.

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Speaker 4: Time has meant nothing. Yeah, March of twenty.

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Speaker 1: Twenty, Yeah, yes, exactly. Yeah, it is flat sixteenth, twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: and here we are. I people would have seen a

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Speaker 1: lot of people get hurt, right And I, like I said, journalist,

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Speaker 1: like I was in LA last week, you kind of

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Speaker 1: tend to get towards the more violent end of things

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Speaker 1: because that is our job. Most people who go to

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Speaker 1: protest don't get hurt, right, And I don't want people

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Speaker 1: to hear anything we're saying today and think, oh God,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get fucked up, because most people don't

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Speaker 1: get fucked up. And like my STUNTI is that you

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Speaker 1: don't fight fascist because you think you're going to win

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Speaker 1: or you think you might not get hurt. You fight

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Speaker 1: fascist because they are fascists. And sometimes people do get hurt.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the ways that people get hurt.

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Speaker 1: Either of you is welcome to answer this, but like,

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Speaker 1: what are some of the common mechanisms of injury that

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Speaker 1: you see when you are out there street medic king,

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Speaker 1: when the cops are out there hurting people.

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Speaker 5: I would say that like in terms of the things

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Speaker 5: that we would typically see, I just want to start

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Speaker 5: off by saying, like, absolutely, we're not out there just

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Speaker 5: because we know that we're going to be successful in

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Speaker 5: any type of advocacy. If that was the case, then

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Speaker 5: we wouldn't have that many people. You know on that front.

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Speaker 5: You know a lot of people know that it's you

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Speaker 5: might be losing ground, but you're not there because you're

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Speaker 5: trying to when you're doing it because you know that

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Speaker 5: you want to be on the right side of history.

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Speaker 5: You want to do the thing that you believe to

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Speaker 5: be morally right. As far as like the type of

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Speaker 5: injuries that you would typically see, I think in order

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Speaker 5: to answer this question, I would kind of break it

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Speaker 5: off into two sections, Like you have mainly protests that

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Speaker 5: have not evolved into violent confrontations with law enforcement, and

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Speaker 5: you have protests where things like you know, for instance,

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Speaker 5: riot control agents have been deployed in like the like

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Speaker 5: the non you know, dangerous side of things, like you

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Speaker 5: might have the kind of stuff that you would encounter

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Speaker 5: in any sort of major events. You know, you're going

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Speaker 5: to deal with dehydration, You're going to deal with people

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Speaker 5: who are, like in an overcrowded areas that might you know,

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Speaker 5: accidentally fall hit and trip over one another. In those

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Speaker 5: kind of circumstances, you know, when we enter into the

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Speaker 5: space where you know, riot control agents are being involved,

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Speaker 5: the quote unquote less lethals non lethals, which I'm going

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Speaker 5: to kind of go into later, is a bit of

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Speaker 5: a non a misnomer. In those circumstances we look at

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Speaker 5: like chemical exposure to things like tear gas, you know,

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of different ways that that manifests that

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Speaker 5: type of exposure, and we can kind of get into

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Speaker 5: that a little bit as well. And then also we

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Speaker 5: have you know, projectile weapons like rubber bullets, you know, flashbangs,

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Speaker 5: those type of things that you might encounter, you know,

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Speaker 5: like sort of blunt trauma to people's bodies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you'd like to add, Miriam.

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Speaker 4: I mean, first of all, like you're doing great out there.

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Speaker 4: Good for you for being out there. It's a hell

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Speaker 4: of a time. There's regional variation, I think to some

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Speaker 4: of the stuff that we see. So I am based

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Speaker 4: in New York City, not you know, not all of

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Speaker 4: this the work I've done has been in New York City,

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Speaker 4: but most of it has And in New York City

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Speaker 4: we don't have tear gas. They just don't do it

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Speaker 4: here because the police found out after plowing tear gas

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Speaker 4: extensively during the RNC that the thing about tear gas

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Speaker 4: is it gets sucked into vents, and when it gets

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Speaker 4: sucked into vents, it gets on all kinds of people

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Speaker 4: in the subway and in buildings, and that that causes

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Speaker 4: lawsuits and the NYPD does not enjoy that, so they

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Speaker 4: use pepper spray instead, because pepper spray is more directed,

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Speaker 4: it doesn't linger in the air the same way. You

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Speaker 4: hit the people that you are trying to hit, you know,

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Speaker 4: and anybody else who's walking by, and also your buddies

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Speaker 4: who are standing next to you, because you fired into

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Speaker 4: the wind, which is always a good time.

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Speaker 1: Any such cases, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So many, There's a there's a whole series of what

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Speaker 4: we are calling locally pepper pigs, which are pepper pigs.

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Speaker 4: It's what you think it is. So yeah, we see

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Speaker 4: a lot of a lot of pepper spray. We also

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Speaker 4: because one of the primary weapons of the NYPD are

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Speaker 4: just sheer, overwhelming numbers, we see a lot of of

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Speaker 4: just direct hands on violence, just cops hitting people, punching people,

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Speaker 4: throwing people to the ground. We see a lot of

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Speaker 4: very rough takedowns. Now if you're you know, acting as

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Speaker 4: a street medic and in that situation, you don't get

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Speaker 4: to treat those people because if they are taking down

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Speaker 4: by a cop, that they are then swarmed by many

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Speaker 4: other cops and they get taken away, then that's something

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Speaker 4: that we might see when we meet that person later

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Speaker 4: at jail support. But the other weapon that we used

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Speaker 4: to see quite a bit, but haven't in more recent years.

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Speaker 4: Is the l RAT, which is a sound cannon. They

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Speaker 4: do still use it, but they use it to like

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Speaker 4: make announcements and annoy people. They use it to like

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Speaker 4: make obnoxiously loud announcements, but not to blast out people's

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Speaker 4: ear drums, which was sort of its weaponized form. We

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Speaker 4: haven't seen that recently though police will will you know,

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Speaker 4: they all carry tasers. You don't tend to see a

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Speaker 4: lot of that at protests, but it's certainly something that

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Speaker 4: we're constantly aware that they have the ability to do.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, it is here. It's mostly pepper spray, nightsticks, fists, knees,

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Speaker 4: you know that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: I would assume that a lot of what they'd do, like,

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Speaker 2: for example, tear gas was, to my understanding, first developed

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Speaker 2: in World War One, really to cause confusion amongst the enemy.

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Speaker 2: And what I assume a lot of these things that

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Speaker 2: they're using, the sound canons is to create panic and

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Speaker 2: confusion and hopefully get people to run and move in mass,

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Speaker 2: unorganized ways. And I wonder if you're seeing crush injuries,

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Speaker 2: if you're seeing injuries related to just the people moving

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Speaker 2: and being scattered around and running in different directions. Is

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Speaker 2: that something that you have seen in this process, either

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Speaker 2: of you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, just real quick, like to the first thing

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Speaker 4: you said, the absolute like the purpose of every place

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Speaker 4: weapon is to cause fear. One of the reasons that

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Speaker 4: I think they so often use things like tear gas

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Speaker 4: and pepper spray when they could simply choose to not

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Speaker 4: is like one, because they have it because their budgets

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Speaker 4: are outrageous and they have, you know, all the weapons

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Speaker 4: they could ever dream of, and why not, you know, well,

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Speaker 4: we have it. But I think that the other reason

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Speaker 4: they use it is because it does freak people out.

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Speaker 4: It scares people, and so you know a lot of

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Speaker 4: people have had like a big dude shove them before.

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Speaker 4: You know. That's like not a super unfamiliar situation. It's

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Speaker 4: not a great situation. People don't like it, but they

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Speaker 4: kind of they're familiar with it. They're familiar with the

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Speaker 4: concept getting sprayed by a mysterious chemical that makes you

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Speaker 4: feel a thing you've never really felt before. That's a

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Speaker 4: lot scarier, and you don't know what's in it. You

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Speaker 4: don't know what's on your body, you don't know why

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Speaker 4: it hurts the way it hurts, like you just know, like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I guess, I guess this is what tear

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Speaker 4: gas feels like. I guess this is what pepper spray

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Speaker 4: feels like. It's frightening. And yeah, people absolutely get hurt

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Speaker 4: running away. It makes it difficult to see. Like squeezing

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Speaker 4: your eyes shut is like a very immediate reaction. So

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Speaker 4: people run, They lose whoever they were at the action with,

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Speaker 4: they get separated from their group, they get disoriented, they

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Speaker 4: may be having trouble breathing. They may be panicking because

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Speaker 4: they're having trouble breathing. Then they're having trouble breathing because

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Speaker 4: they're panicking, you know. So yeah, you do absolutely see

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Speaker 4: all of that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I really want to second what what

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Speaker 5: Miriam has been saying here. You know, as far as

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Speaker 5: like the most common agent that you see in tear

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Speaker 5: gas in the United States at this time, it's believed

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Speaker 5: to be agent CS. And this is something, like you mentioned,

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Speaker 5: it was developed right around the time of World War Two.

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Speaker 5: They started like be coming into effect the the in

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Speaker 5: like the late fifties. A point of thought for this

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Speaker 5: is it was actually made legal for use in warfare

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Speaker 5: in the nineties by the Geneva Convention. So you don't

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Speaker 5: see the US or other armies like using this on SOULDI,

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Speaker 5: but we're using it in protests.

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Speaker 4: Well you don't. You don't necessarily see the US military

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Speaker 4: following the Geneva Convention.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well we can. That's a fair point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of the walls of low ta gas is one

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Speaker 1: that it is walls of low Those wool people do

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Speaker 1: be using ta gas sometimes, but yeah, they shouldn't be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're right.

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Speaker 2: Is first in the Geneva Conventions in nineteen twenty five,

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Speaker 2: but then nineteen ninety seven specifically it was prohibited. The

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Speaker 2: thought behind that is they did it because they didn't

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Speaker 2: want someone to get one gas and not know exactly

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Speaker 2: what it was and then use the really nasty stuff

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Speaker 2: like sirm gas, et cetera. And the reason our police

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Speaker 2: are able to do it on our protesters is because

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Speaker 2: they're pretty confident that our protesters don't have when they

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Speaker 2: use siren gas, so they feel they feel free to

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Speaker 2: use it at our But speaking of sound canyons and

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Speaker 2: disturbing noises being shot into your ear holes, commercials will

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Speaker 2: be right back.

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Speaker 3: All right, we're back.

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Speaker 1: We should talk about noxious gases. There has been this

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Speaker 1: persistent rumor. I don't just mean in the last like

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Speaker 1: ten days, there's been a persistent rumor every time that

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Speaker 1: people have been tear gassed that this time the cops

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Speaker 1: are using super tear gas, special tear gas, cancer tear gas.

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Speaker 1: To be clear, like the effects of tear gas on people,

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Speaker 1: especially to my understanding, like people who menstrate, are fucking

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Speaker 1: long term and nasty. So let's just address like what

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Speaker 1: are the reagents in tear gas and what are some

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Speaker 1: of the outcomes we can expect short term and long term?

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Speaker 1: And then do we suspect that the cops are using

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Speaker 1: super tier gas this time?

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Speaker 5: Well, I guess in terms of like the agent, like

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Speaker 5: we kind of mentioned it a little bit ago on AGENCS,

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Speaker 5: the more complicated long name oh klaura laden melanitril. So

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Speaker 5: it's actually it's so that's absolutely the kind of thing

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Speaker 5: you talk about in dinner conversations. But the compound itself,

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Speaker 5: it's actually not in a gas form. It's actually a solid.

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Speaker 5: It's a crystalline substance that's released that's aerosolized after any

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Speaker 5: type of like explosion from you know, a grenade or

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Speaker 5: canister and it's as far as you know the types

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Speaker 5: of things that you will experience. It takes effect in

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Speaker 5: the first twenty sixty seconds of contact with the body.

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Speaker 5: It's a nucleophilic substance, so that means it will adhere

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Speaker 5: to tears, it'll adhere to moisture on your skin, like sweat,

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Speaker 5: any type of like saliva or mucus, and like the

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Speaker 5: first things you'll typically notice are the tearing, the redness, burning,

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Speaker 5: blurred vision in your eyes. Specifically on your skin, you

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Speaker 5: could develop burns or rash. A contact dermatitis has also

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Speaker 5: been associated with a development of this on your skin,

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Speaker 5: burning irritation in your mouth. You can also devel running

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Speaker 5: knows the more kind of more serious long term effects

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Speaker 5: that can be more systemic. You can actually develop shortness

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Speaker 5: of breath, wheezing, or chest tightness. You can also develop

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Speaker 5: nausea or vomiting if you ingest much of it while

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Speaker 5: you're in the protest and you kind of already brought

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Speaker 5: it up as well. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot

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Speaker 5: of systemic research that has been done on the impacts

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Speaker 5: of agents like cs that are in tear gas on people,

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Speaker 5: but we have a couple of things that have come

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Speaker 5: up about pregnancy outcomes. We do see increased rates of

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Speaker 5: uterine cramping, menstrual bleeding, breast tenderness, and delayed menstrual cramping

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Speaker 5: as well in pregnancy. We also don't know how well

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Speaker 5: it crosses into breast milk, so you know, it's this

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Speaker 5: kind of challenging question, and the CDC is official like

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Speaker 5: stance on it is this idea that like they don't

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Speaker 5: believe that it crosses. But again, we don't have that research,

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Speaker 5: so we can't know for sure.

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Speaker 1: Great cool, good thing to be fogging Loud City blogs with.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well we don't know everything it does, so probably

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Speaker 4: some of it is fine, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, James, when you're mentioning how it keeps coming up

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Speaker 2: and there's these concerns of there being like a cause

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Speaker 2: and cancer. We have no proof of that right now,

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Speaker 2: but I mean we really don't know, so it is

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Speaker 2: a little concerning long term, especially journalists like yourself who

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Speaker 2: are exposed to it a lot, so that that is

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Speaker 2: something I would love to see.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, how you're going to study.

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Speaker 1: It, you're going to find that, Yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 2: Rfka Junior might who knows it might be like, we're

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Speaker 2: not funding real research anymore like vaccine.

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Speaker 1: So if we get on the right podcast, we could

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Speaker 1: probably make that happen.

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Speaker 2: So before we move off of the gas, let's just

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Speaker 2: talk about treatment of it and what you guys, what

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Speaker 2: you will do out there in the field someone comes

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Speaker 2: to you, and let's try to address some of the

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Speaker 2: most common misconceptions about what you should be treating or

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Speaker 2: how you should be treating.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, ready to go. Since forever, there have been

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Speaker 4: like rumors that there are these I think because of

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Speaker 4: sort of the way that it is mysterious, like the

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00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:17,800
Speaker 4: cops have these, like, you know, containers of this awful poisonous,

381
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,399
Speaker 4: magical potion that they spray on you and then we

382
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Speaker 4: have to find the antidote. So things that I have

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00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 4: heard as being good for tear gas and pepper spray

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00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 4: include raw onion, lemon juice, apple cider, vinegar, coca cola, avocado.

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Speaker 2: Far it sounds sounds like a nice.

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Speaker 4: Great actually, and then the classic milk as well as maylocks.

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Speaker 4: My personal favorite is when somebody like jumps into correct

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Speaker 4: somebody on milk and it's like no, no, no, actually

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00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 4: it's milk of magnesia, not regular milk.

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Speaker 1: So oh, you got to get it from a which is.

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Speaker 4: What you actually do is flush out the eyes with water.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's it. That's the only thing. It's water.

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Speaker 4: The number of things that should go into a human

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Speaker 4: eye are basically water and any medicine that is designed

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Speaker 4: for the human eye, and saline solution. I guess you know.

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00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 4: And definitely you could do an eye flush with saline.

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Speaker 4: It's just that if you have sailine in your bag,

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00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 4: it weighs just as much as water, and you can't

399
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 4: drink it when you get tired. You can and what

400
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 4: you can, but it's not recommended, and you can't refill

401
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 4: it from a tap.

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Speaker 3: You can drink anything, James, if you know a cow.

403
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 4: But if you have a bottle of water, you can

404
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 4: do a bunch of eye flushes, and then when it

405
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 4: starts to run low, you can refill it from a

406
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 4: tap because that has water in it too. It's very

407
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 4: readily availed water in most places. And all of the

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00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 4: other things that are out there that people will tell

409
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Speaker 4: you you should use, you should not use. I have

410
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Speaker 4: never seen any good evidence that any of them are

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00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 4: better than water at getting pepper spray or cheer gas

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00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 4: out of your eye. All of them are kind of

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Speaker 4: predicated on this idea that there's like a chemical reaction

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Speaker 4: you are trying to affect. And then that is sort

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Speaker 4: of further based on the idea that the reason this

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00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 4: stuff hurts is because it is acidic. Because I think

417
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 4: people think, like, what's a chemical that burns acid? Right?

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00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 4: These are not acidic. That is not how they work.

419
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Speaker 4: They are chemical irritants. And you don't want an acid

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Speaker 4: base reaction in your eye anyway.

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Speaker 3: You want to be doing chemistry experiments in your eye.

422
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Speaker 4: You actually usually wear goggles when you do chemistry experiments.

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Speaker 4: I'm not like a chemist.

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Speaker 2: But meerium water sure is great. But what about all

425
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 2: that fluoride you're getting into your eyeballs? Have you thought about.

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Speaker 4: That that'll prevent eye cavities?

427
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Speaker 3: Richard? Anything else to add to that?

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Speaker 5: I know, I think you hit the nail on the head,

429
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Speaker 5: and I think that when when I look at what

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Speaker 5: physicians typically recommend in terms of response to your gas,

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Speaker 5: I always think back on the doctor Glockham fleckin thread

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Speaker 5: that became very popular on on switter.

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Speaker 3: I'd be very interested to hear what your thoughts are.

434
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 5: We're on that on that miriam I think like one

435
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 5: of the things that tended to come from from that

436
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 5: particular thread because he does have experience as as an ophthalmologist.

437
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,959
Speaker 5: He mentioned washing your eyes with baby shampoo and rinsing copiously,

438
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 5: I think like the challenge with that is obviously, like

439
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 5: what Miriaman mentioned, one, water saline are the better options

440
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 5: for for irrigating your eyes, especially after exposure. For one,

441
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 5: the fact that it's you know, you never know what else,

442
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 5: like it's it's better to avoid any other type of

443
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 5: irritants that you could, you know, be exposed to your eye.

444
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 5: Also the fact, like we already mentioned, the fact that

445
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 5: the agents into your gas they're nuclear filth, meaning they're

446
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 5: attracted to water. So by using water itself, you are

447
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 5: effectively going to help to irrigate it. And you know,

448
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 5: we typically recommend anywhere upwards in twenty minutes for that

449
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 5: type of exposure. And then as far as I'm not

450
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 5: sure if you mentioned milk already, Mary.

451
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 4: Milk counts me.

452
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't mention it enough.

453
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 3: Eyeball cheese.

454
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: We cannot mention eyeball cheese.

455
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 5: Is the let's let's think about what the context of

456
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 5: where we are in a protest. It's very typically outdoors

457
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 5: for many hours, usually in summertime. Exactly like the idea

458
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 5: of putting this uh you know, this this culture on

459
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 5: people's eyes, like I think.

460
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 6: Far too many is the yogurt actually yogurt as well,

461
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 6: you may as well go and get some geg Greek

462
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 6: yogurt and pour it on their eyes, so you know,

463
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 6: it really gets back to the idea of like constant irrigation.

464
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 5: Clean water is perfectly fine. If you have water at

465
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 5: the protest, usually the best thing to do is have

466
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 5: the type of water bottles that have like a flip

467
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 5: off cap, so that way you can easily, you know,

468
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 5: pour it over their face and then recap it for

469
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 5: later use on someone else or yourself. I think the

470
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 5: other thing too that's really important to discuss is, you know,

471
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 5: because it's this solid aerosolized substance, it can sometimes adhere

472
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 5: to your clothing, so you know, there's a couple of

473
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 5: different approaches, you know. Physicians for Human Rights has a

474
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 5: PDF that I strongly encourage anybody who's listening to review.

475
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 5: If you find yourself in the position of either being

476
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 5: a protester at a protest or being a medic at

477
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 5: a protest, they recommend if you've been exposed it to

478
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 5: your gas to hang your clothing afterwards in a heavily

479
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 5: ventilated place for up to forty eight hours. If you're

480
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 5: not able to do that, placing your clothing in a

481
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 5: plastic bag, including your shoes, outside and not mixing it

482
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 5: with any of your other non exposed clothing is the

483
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 5: ideal response afterwards.

484
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll add when doctor Glockinflecken was on our show

485
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 2: talking about this back during George Floyd, we discussed it

486
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: and the other thing that he recommended, and he is

487
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 2: actually not just a very very funny internet person, he's

488
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 2: also a very good ophthalmologist. And he also recommended initially

489
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,959
Speaker 2: when it happened, soon as you can blink rapidly that

490
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 2: really helps initiate the tear response. You're still gonna need water,

491
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 2: but it's going to help start get that jump started

492
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: for you, and it's going to require a lot of water.

493
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: About one to two leaders is generally what people will say.

494
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: So it's hard to have that much with you on

495
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: hand when you're out there protesting, but if you're able to,

496
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 2: I feel like water is one of the more important

497
00:26:58,520 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 2: things you can bring with you.

498
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, So to the thing about the baby shampoo. First

499
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 4: of all, yeah, I think the recommendation with that is

500
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 4: to wash the skin around the eyes with the baby shampoo,

501
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 4: not not directly in the eyes, but that that's like

502
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 4: a less harsh way of removing the chemicals from the

503
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 4: skin there, because you would definitely wash skin with soap

504
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 4: and water, but I could see maybe using like a

505
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 4: gentler soap directly around the eyes. That makes sense as

506
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 4: far as like my technique with doing an eye flush

507
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 4: in the streets, a continual twenty minute irrigation just is

508
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 4: not feasible.

509
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 6: Now.

510
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 4: Sometimes at big actions, you know, medics will set up

511
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 4: clinic spaces, tents, stuff like that, and occasionally, very occasionally

512
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 4: you can do the like true gold standard of eye irrigation,

513
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 4: which is twenty minutes of continual saline irrigation, where you

514
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 4: like have a bag of saline like in a hospital,

515
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 4: and you plug it into a nasal canula and you

516
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 4: tape that to the bridge of the nose and just

517
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 4: let the person lie down. That works, but like it's

518
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 4: just not feasible in most street situations. So what I

519
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 4: do is I will basically I'll put on gloves. I

520
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 4: will get consent because you know, anytime you're treating somebody

521
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 4: who's been brutalized by the police, you are like you

522
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 4: are treating an assault victim, and you should prioritize their

523
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 4: consent as much as you can, so I, you know,

524
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 4: do a quick like, hey, what's up. My name's Miriam,

525
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 4: I'm a medic. Can I help you? I guide them

526
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 4: out of the area of immediate danger if they can't see,

527
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,479
Speaker 4: and then I flush first one eye twice, and then

528
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 4: I have them blink a whole bunch, and then the

529
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 4: other eye twice, and I have them blink a whole bunch,

530
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 4: and then they're usually able to open their eyes and

531
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 4: navigate safely on their own. Sometimes they need another round

532
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 4: with that, especially if I didn't you know, if I missed,

533
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 4: you know, if it's dark and there things are moving

534
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 4: around and I miss the eye or something. But usually

535
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 4: that gets enough out that they are going to be

536
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 4: able to navigate the situation. And because they are tearing

537
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 4: a lot, that's part of the flush too, right, the

538
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 4: body is doing that on its own and flushing too

539
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 4: much with water. I think in that initial moment, you're

540
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,959
Speaker 4: just washing away tears at that point, So doing like

541
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 4: a first round of like forceful of forceful flush. You know,

542
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 4: you're really like using a forceful stream to push the

543
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 4: chemicals out. And then Okay, their eyes are open, they're

544
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 4: still in pain, and like that's just gonna last for

545
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 4: a while. Your eyes are going to continue to hurt,

546
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 4: and like that sucks. You've been harmed. Somebody did a

547
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 4: harmful thing to you, and you are going to continue

548
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 4: to have pain for a little while. But if you

549
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,719
Speaker 4: can see that, your immediate danger is reduced and you

550
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,959
Speaker 4: can get out of there, and you can, you know,

551
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 4: in a calmer moment, maybe do another couple eye flushes,

552
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 4: maybe you know, use soap and water on the face,

553
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 4: clean up a little bit, and like be a little

554
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 4: bit happier with how you feel. But my priority in

555
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 4: the immediate moments after somebody's been spread is to like

556
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 4: help them so that they can get out of there

557
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 4: if they need to, because they probably do.

558
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

559
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, speaking of things that will make you tear up,

560
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm terrible. Commercials, stay tuned, will be right back, beautiful.

561
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: All right, we are back, and I guess let's talk

562
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: about rubber bullets or various impact nations, and then let's

563
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: talk about how people actions people can take to keep

564
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: themselves a little bit safer. Right, understanding that you are

565
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: not the one who gets to choose if violence arrives

566
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: at your protest. The cops are. And we're recording this

567
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: on Sunday like date in June, and people had their

568
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: big No Kings March yesterday. They were largely like, extremely nonviolent,

569
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: and they still got attacked by the cops in La.

570
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: So let's talk about impact munitions, right. One thing we

571
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: didn't mention actually was pepper balls. I've had the a

572
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: combo yeah right, I've had the ill fortune and receiving

573
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: some pepper balls in the balls. Oh yeah, very uncomfortable.

574
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: Cops will try and shoot you in the grin.

575
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 5: I had a colleague who encountered this just a few

576
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 5: days ago.

577
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. They had fucking so like, there's no Yeah,

578
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: it happens with such frequency that you'd have to be

579
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: really trying to believe that it was an accident. So

580
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: let's talk about things that can hit you. Right, If

581
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: we start with pepper balls and then move on up

582
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: to like what people call rubber bullets, which I think

583
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: baton rounds is like a more technical description of what

584
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: they are, or mark a rounds for a big foam

585
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: or rubber things that hit you. Sometimes they leave a

586
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: little puff of chalk on you, and theory like that

587
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: identifies you for the cops to arrest you. I guess

588
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: in practice it's just another thing that they can use

589
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: to smash into you. But like, let's talk about some

590
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: of these things that the cops can shoot from their

591
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: little guns. Bean backgrounds is another one, right, that comes

592
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: out of a shotgun, and it's what it sounds like, right,

593
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: it's a being bad traveling very fast. Somebody here in

594
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: San Diego lost their eye to one of those in

595
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. But let's talk about some of these impact

596
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: munitions and like what the potential risks are for people there.

597
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that, I mean, just the one point

598
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 5: I want to bring up in terms of these they're

599
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 5: often called in the media non lethal and or or

600
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 5: quote unquote less lethals. Yeah, and I think that what's

601
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 5: really important to recognize, and you kind of already hinted

602
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 5: to with James, people have been killed with rubber bullets,

603
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 5: plastic bullets. We actually have. Amnesty International did a report

604
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty three that you know, showed that over

605
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 5: the course of about five years, you know, dozens of

606
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 5: people have died as a result of the use of

607
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 5: rubber bullets. We show that between eighteen seventy two to

608
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 5: nineteen eighty nine, just in Ireland, sixteen people were killed.

609
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 5: In Palestine, between eighty seven and ninety three, twenty people

610
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 5: died just from the use of Robert bullets. And you

611
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 5: know that's reports. We don't know how many in truth

612
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 5: actually were impacted by that.

613
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

614
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: I would also add the British Medical Journal back in

615
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen looked at about two thousand little bit or

616
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: two thousand people who had been affected by these projectiles,

617
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 2: and three percent actually did cause immediate mortality, and then

618
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: fifteen percent was long term chronic injury or illness or

619
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: some sort of being maimed from the event. So yeah,

620
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: you're exactly right. It's pretty significant, especially with the number

621
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: of these that are shot. You know, they don't have

622
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 2: to keep record about how many of these they shoot.

623
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: So actually, one other question I have for you, Richard,

624
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: that you could help answer to one in la did

625
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 2: you see them shooting these things? And you would kind

626
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: of allude to that you felt that they were actually

627
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: directing them towards you. Did you feel that, being there

628
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: as a medical professional, that you were being targeted.

629
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 5: I myself was fortunate and not hit by a rubber bullet.

630
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 5: From witnessing my colleagues who were actually there present at

631
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 5: this protest, they themselves were hit with HERR bullets below

632
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 5: the navel. He had previous experience from an earlier protest

633
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 5: that week where he had actually been strugging. The thing

634
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 5: he told me that I remember is like, I'm never

635
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 5: going to one.

636
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: Of these things.

637
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 5: I'm prepared again. Yeah, because he did have that situation

638
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 5: where he was kind of hit closer to the groin,

639
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 5: so we ended up wearing I remember he was wearing

640
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 5: a kind of a fanny pack for this particular protest

641
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 5: that we were at, and you could very clearly see

642
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 5: the dust marks, like the chalk marks of the bullets

643
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 5: struck on this on his on his fanny pack. Yeah,

644
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 5: you know, it's it's definitely something that we noticed. Many

645
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 5: of the other medics at this event commented that they

646
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 5: had been previously struck or targeted once the police began

647
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 5: firing rubber bullets. As far as we fortunately we didn't

648
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 5: see anybody who was struck you know, closer to the face.

649
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 5: But there were reports after the No King's protest yesterday

650
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 5: that you know, several people had been struck in the

651
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 5: eye or on the forehead. There was one picture I

652
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 5: think earlier from earlier this week, that one of the

653
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 5: reporters in downtown LA had been struck with a non

654
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 5: lethal foam round directly in his forehead and it was

655
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 5: this you could see this very clear, enormous wealth the

656
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 5: size of like a grapefruit, Yeah, and bleeding and it

657
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 5: was it was, you know, very clearly like aiming above

658
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 5: at the face.

659
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 4: In these cases, Yeah, there was a huge number during

660
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 4: the Chilean protests in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, eye injuries

661
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 4: were huge. There were hundreds. There's a there's a club

662
00:35:54,840 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 4: somewhere of journalists who've lost eyes to rubber bullets. I

663
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 4: think they call themselves the Cyclops Club or something. They're writers,

664
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 4: they you know. But yeah, like, these things are incredibly dangerous,

665
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 4: and eye injuries especially are really common. Yeah, they are

666
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 4: less lethal only in that it is less likely to

667
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 4: kill you than being shot with live ammunition. But like

668
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 4: most things, are less likely to kill you than live anue.

669
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: Okay, grizzly barry is less likely to kill you.

670
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: My friend Rebecca Watson says, you know, Samurai blade is

671
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: less lethal than AK forty seven, but it's still not

672
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: something you want them to have.

673
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: Yeah against you, the ideal if you weren't being attacked

674
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 1: doing what is a constitutionally protected right in the US. Yeah, hey, everyone,

675
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 1: I just wanted to record a little pick up here

676
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: to explain a little bit more. I guess about forty

677
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:54,919
Speaker 1: milimeter and thirty seven millimeter less lethal projectiles. They are

678
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: sometimes called baton rounds. I saw baton round written on

679
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: the Safari Land thirty seven milimeters one, but they are

680
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: not the same as the baton round you will have

681
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: seen British military using in Northern Ireland. Most of the

682
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: modern ones that I am aware of are not designed

683
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: to be skipped off the ground, albeit there desertainly are,

684
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: or at least were rubber bullets that were designed to

685
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: be skipped off the ground at one point. The use

686
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: of a bullet made of rubber that's fired out of

687
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: a conventional rifle is very rare. In the United States,

688
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: there are things called simmunitions, which are munitions fire out

689
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: of a conventional rifle using a different bolt, and they

690
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: are generally used for simulated force on force training. You

691
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: can think about it like going paintballing, but with regular

692
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: guns orbit with a bolt that makes it so you

693
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: can't load live ammunition into that gun while it's set

694
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: up for simmunitions. Those will use extensively. I believe in

695
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: Columbia identified some ammunition casings. I've not seen those used

696
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: by police anywhere in the United States. What the LAPD

697
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: uses is a forty millimeter egg act impact round. It

698
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: has a plastic body and a sponge nosed and that

699
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: is designed to be point of ain point of impact, right,

700
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: so shot at someone like you would shoot a gun

701
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: at somebody. There are other leslethos in use, even in

702
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: LA I saw a thirty seven millimeter Safari land round.

703
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: I saw FN three H three's, which is like seventeen millimeter.

704
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: I saw pepper balls. Various different versions of LES lethal munitions,

705
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: but most of the ones that I'm aware of in

706
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five are designed for point of a point

707
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: of impact. They're also extremely dangerous and as we've said here,

708
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,479
Speaker 1: they can kill you. It's wanting to clarify that, so like, yeah,

709
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: these things are dangerous, right, like they have caused serious

710
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: injury or death. Let's assume for a minute that like

711
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: the folks listening have not attended many actions before, right,

712
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: that they are right the younger or like, they just

713
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: haven't been in that world in that part of their life,

714
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: and they've seen what's happening recently, and they're pissed off

715
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,280
Speaker 1: and they want to attend. They're afraid, right, and they

716
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 1: want to know what they can do, what they can bring,

717
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: how they can prepare themselves in the understanding that like

718
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: it isn't one hundred percent safe because the cops can

719
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: decide to attack you whenever they want. What can people bring?

720
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: How can people prepare to be as safe as they

721
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: can be?

722
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 4: Bring water? I mean not just the eyeflushes, but like

723
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 4: bring snacks and water. Like you're going to be out

724
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 4: there for a while, you need to keep yourself going.

725
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 4: You need to keep your friends going. Bring friends, like

726
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 4: be there with somebody who is going to watch your back,

727
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 4: somebody who knows a number for like your emergency contact,

728
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 4: you know, if you get grabbed, stuff like that, especially

729
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 4: if you're new to this, Like try not to run alone.

730
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, even if it's like just hooking up

731
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: with people when you get there, you know.

732
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been at a protest that was starting to

733
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 4: look scary and a woman turned to me and said,

734
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 4: I'm here alone. Are you here alone? And I said yeah,

735
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 4: and she said, now we're here together, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,

736
00:39:58,800 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 4: which is beautiful.

737
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: It's good place to make friends.

738
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 5: It's a very like honest feeling to have. I mean,

739
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 5: you're seeing for the problem for many people is probably

740
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 5: the first time that you're seeing someone aiming a project

741
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 5: out at you and aiming a firearm at you and firing.

742
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 5: So yeah, you know, there's a good reason to feel worried.

743
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 5: That's like the fact that we have to worry about

744
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 5: that in this country period is you know, it's very chilling.

745
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 5: I think that, you know, Miriam mentioned it, bringing friends

746
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 5: is really important. Something else that like we've talked about

747
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 5: in circles in LA I think is like really understanding

748
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 5: going in what is the amount of risk that you

749
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 5: are willing to take entering into these spaces I think

750
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 5: is extraordinarily important. I think some of my colleagues who

751
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 5: were at the UCLA protests earlier during the Palestine movement. Yeah,

752
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 5: they kind of asked the question, like they kind of

753
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 5: framed it in like green light, yellow light, red light,

754
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 5: Like in terms of green meaning like I'm okay with

755
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 5: you know, whatever risks might be involved, like as far

756
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 5: as like what my understanding of what this protest could

757
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 5: entail yellow being like I'm I'm not prepared to go

758
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 5: so far as to be arrested, but I'm willing to

759
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 5: be present on record if necessary, serve as a witness

760
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 5: for my other colleagues who are going to be in

761
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 5: this space read meaning you know, I'm not necessarily prepared

762
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 5: at this point to go that far.

763
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 3: I don't.

764
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 5: I want to support, but I also don't want to

765
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 5: get arrested. And I think it's important to like, you know,

766
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 5: recognize that not necessarily shame other people in terms of

767
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 5: like where they're at in this Yeah, yeah.

768
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 7: Understand Yeah, absolutely, because because everybody comes at this from

769
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 7: different places, I think it's really important, like when you're

770
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 7: in these spaces to like, you know, kind of understand

771
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 7: the risk of the other people and who are alongside you.

772
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,919
Speaker 5: Because if you're a medic and you're trying to treat

773
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 5: other people and then you have all of a sudden,

774
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,439
Speaker 5: you're by yourself because the other people are like, well,

775
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 5: I you know, this is what I signed up for.

776
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 3: I'm out.

777
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 5: That is also scary, even if you're you know, you're

778
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 5: very willing to be there.

779
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 3: Yeah.

780
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 5: So I think just having those conversations and planning more

781
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 5: than anything, planning, planning, planning, is extraordinarily important.

782
00:41:59,480 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

783
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 2: I think that's very well said, great points, and everyone

784
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 2: has a different level of risk. And just to be

785
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 2: totally clear for our listeners, there was over two thousand

786
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 2: different protests yesterday and there was the minimal amount of

787
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: violence and they were all peaceful. For the protesters were

788
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 2: the vast, vast, vast majority peaceful and things went fine,

789
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 2: and some like the one I attended, was actually kid friendly,

790
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 2: so it was a safe place. But particularly in certain places,

791
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 2: there's always a small chance, if not large, and depending

792
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: on the police presence there, that things could go the

793
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 2: wrong way, and it is something to keep in mind.

794
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 2: So I particularly liked your point regarding everyone has a

795
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 2: different level of risk, and that's okay, you're still contributing.

796
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not a place myself where I'm planning

797
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 2: on getting arrested. That's just not something I want to do,

798
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 2: but I would like to protest that I would like

799
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 2: to support in along those lines, What are ways that

800
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 2: other people who have medical backgrounds could potentially contribute or support.

801
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 5: You in terms of the ways that like medics can

802
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 5: you know, respond in these situations. I think for me,

803
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 5: I have you know, a box of medical equipment that

804
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 5: I want to go to bring on site, like I'm

805
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 5: obviously like and said, I'm bringing water because that's going

806
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 5: to be foremost like my most useful tool to help

807
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 5: anybody who's going to be affected by things like that,

808
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 5: like to your deaths.

809
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 4: You know.

810
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 5: As far as other things like having extra masks, I

811
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 5: think is really really important, you know, because it's a

812
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 5: huge way of reducing respiratory exposure to the aerosols that

813
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 5: are going to be in the air.

814
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 3: And then eye.

815
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 5: Protection, eye protection, eye protection. Now the thing about like

816
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 5: you know, we we've seen different types of protection for

817
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 5: your eyes that are effective. We've seen goggles being used,

818
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 5: like the ones that you would you would see in

819
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 5: a lab. They're not actually effective unless you close the

820
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 5: sides the vents with tape because otherwise the aerosols actually

821
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 5: can still get inside the mask and irritate your eyes.

822
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 5: So if you are going to be like bringing that

823
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 5: type of eye protection, it's important to think about that.

824
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 5: There's like some higher end, you know, more effective tools

825
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 5: that provide both eye protection and helping to filter particles.

826
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 5: Just using a basic goggle mask with the vents covered

827
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 5: in an N ninety five for just about anybody, I

828
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 5: think is a useful tool. So having those types of

829
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 5: supplies for people who need them is helpful for sure.

830
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 4: And as far as like a really low risk thing

831
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 4: that people with medical training can do is show up

832
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 4: to jail support, because that's like that is a huge

833
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 4: way you can help not just people who are arrested,

834
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 4: but anybody coming out of jail is by doing jail support.

835
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 4: And what that entails is hanging out where people get released.

836
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 4: People will usually bring food, drinks, clothes, shoelaces. People often

837
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 4: get out without shoelaces, belts, and like a couple of

838
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 4: you know, extra layers of clothes if people get let

839
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 4: out and it's cold, and check out people's injuries. Often

840
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 4: people will be taken to the hospital during processing if

841
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 4: they have something that the police can't ignore, but people

842
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 4: often get released with injuries and it can be really

843
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 4: good to have somebody there who can evaluate them. Honestly,

844
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 4: it's often just giving them like a judgment call on,

845
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 4: do you think this needs somebody else to take a

846
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 4: look at it, you know, in a professional environment, or

847
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 4: can I put some ice on it and go home

848
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 4: type thing. And almost everybody getting out of jail has

849
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 4: handcuff injuries if they were arrested in a mass arrest,

850
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 4: because in mass arrest situations, cops tend to use the

851
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 4: plastic zip ties, which can get incredibly tight, even more

852
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 4: so than metal handcuffs, which have a little bit a

853
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 4: little length of chain. They strain the shoulders, especially larger people.

854
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 4: Especially if somebody has a bag on their back, cops

855
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 4: will often cuff them in such a way that the

856
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 4: bag pushes on their hands and makes the cuffs increasingly tight.

857
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 4: And having a medical professional or a street medic or

858
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 4: even somebody who's like just there to like take a

859
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 4: look and be like, yeah, man, I see that that's

860
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 4: really fucked up that they did that to you. I'm

861
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 4: so sorry can be useful. Having somebody there to witness

862
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 4: an acknowledge and to document if somebody is planning on

863
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 4: doing something with that, you know, then that's that's important too.

864
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 4: So if you cannot be arrested, find out what's happening

865
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 4: with jail, support and go support them because that's chill,

866
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 4: that's calm.

867
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 2: No.

868
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 4: I mean, there are no guarantees in this world but now,

869
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 4: but it is far more likely to be chill and calm. Yeah,

870
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 4: and you can hang out and eat snacks. Oh and

871
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 4: this is the one situation where, medically speaking, bring cigarettes.

872
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 4: People want cigarettes when they get out of jail and

873
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 4: they need, they deserve a fucking cigarette. Is it good

874
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 4: for them?

875
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 3: No? I know, I just am sorry. I hate cigarettes

876
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 3: so much. I listen.

877
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say you can't, but I will

878
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: never give someone a cigarette. It goes against I'll bring things.

879
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 2: I just can't listen. There's certain lines I will draw

880
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: as a doctor. One I have to help everybody if

881
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: I don't like them. Two, I can't give them cigarettes

882
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 2: even if I like them, So I just can't. Those

883
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 2: are two things I can't bring myself to do. The

884
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 2: cigarette one really a duds me crazy, but I get.

885
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 4: In that case. Maybe bring some cards for whatever your

886
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 4: local public transit is, or failing that, you know, have

887
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 4: some cash on hand to send people home in a

888
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 4: taxi or have somebody who standing by with a car

889
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 4: to help people get home. Stuff like that that's really

890
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 4: important for jail support, perhaps even more important than a cigarette.

891
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would add that another thing you can do

892
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: if you're a medic plea like a medical professional especially,

893
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: it's helped other people learn really bagic skills. You didn't

894
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: even have to be at a protest, right it could

895
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: be a week laser. There are medical professionals who do

896
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: street medic training. You can teach people stop the bleed

897
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: in a day and potentially save someone. It's like and

898
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: so if it's not something that you you know, are

899
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 1: skilled enough to teach, and you need to be honest

900
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: about whether you're skilled enough to teach that or not.

901
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: You know, if you've watched a forew YouTube videos and

902
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: you're not, that's something you could use to really help

903
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: other people who are who are going to be there

904
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: at a time when you're not comfortable or safe being there.

905
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: I guess for the end of the show to wrap up,

906
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: if people are just attending to be fucking mad, and

907
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who are fucking mad

908
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: right now, what should they bring And if people want

909
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: to access training, right, Like, what are some some resources

910
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 1: that you would suggest, What are some types of training

911
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: in terms of like first aid that people can access,

912
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: so that people should access if they're the thinking of

913
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: attending these things and they're worried.

914
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 5: I mean, I think in terms of the type of

915
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 5: first aid that you need to be really conscious of,

916
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 5: especially in any any type of like event where you're

917
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 5: going to be with a lot of people and you're

918
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 5: going in as a medic. And this isn't just for protest.

919
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 5: I think it's for any type of event. We do

920
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 5: live in a world where, unfortunately, there is a lot

921
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 5: of mass shootings. Even if they're firing rubber bullets, we

922
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 5: don't know who else may also attend, who may also

923
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 5: be going with the intention of being violent. So I mean,

924
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 5: you mentioned it yourself, stopped the bleed. Having basic understanding

925
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 5: of how to what types of on the field first

926
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 5: aid should be done for individuals who have got received

927
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,399
Speaker 5: a gunshot wound, I think is really important if they've

928
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 5: been struck by a car. We've already seen earlier this

929
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 5: this weekend that there were shootings in I believe in

930
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 5: a couple of different cities. It's I'm missing, which one

931
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 5: unfortunately happened, But I do know of at least one

932
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 5: report of a tesla being driven into a crowd of

933
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 5: protesters this weekend, So it was, Yeah, if I.

934
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 4: Get killed by a tesla, I'm gonna be so fucking mad.

935
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: Indignity.

936
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 2: That is the thing that concerns me the most most

937
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 2: protests is some actor coming in from outside to do

938
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 2: something like that. That part really does concern me, especially

939
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 2: because so many of these are are, like I mentioned,

940
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 2: kind of family friendly, and they should be. I think

941
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 2: families for the most part, should be able to come

942
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 2: to these things. So that is something that I'm always

943
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 2: constantly on the lookout for.

944
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, cars fucking scammy, like experienced car bombs in my career,

945
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: but also just like cars driving into crowds of course

946
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: undouled damage, and Americans do be loving large cars. Yeah,

947
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: and the cops won't stop them, Like at least in La.

948
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 1: My experience with the cars were kind of in and

949
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: out the whole time, and that did not make me

950
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: feel secure.

951
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 5: We had one individual who was stood in front of

952
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 5: a van that was carrying ice agents and that person

953
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 5: essentially got run over. In that situation, they were not

954
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 5: at all stopping for.

955
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: That big car, it's a big risk. Like I guess

956
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: with that in mind, one thing I think about sometimes

957
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 1: when these things is like you don't want to be

958
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: going into this, like like traumatizing yourself by doing this.

959
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: But a degree of situational when is to include what

960
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,919
Speaker 1: are my points of cover and what are my ways out?

961
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: It's good to have.

962
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it helps.

963
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: It helps me feel safer anyway.

964
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's another huge reason to always run with

965
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 4: a buddy, right because if you're running with a buddy especially,

966
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 4: I mean I think I personally think that if you

967
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 4: are doing medical stuff, you should always have a buddy

968
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 4: just because if you're going to be stopped and like

969
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 4: somebody's got to watch your back and like it's and

970
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 4: you know you might need a second opinion, you can

971
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 4: call in that buddy for a consult. You know. The

972
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 4: Medic Collective that I run with on really big action days,

973
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 4: we'll put together like little bingo cards that will distribute

974
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 4: to all the medic buddy pairs as a situational awareness game.

975
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 4: So like if we're alllling out to this, you know,

976
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 4: to a big, big action, we'll put like there'll be

977
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 4: squares for like a cop who clearly is not awake,

978
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 4: or your ex, or you know, a person who forgot sunscreen,

979
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 4: or you know, just just things to look out for. Yeah,

980
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 4: and I think honestly like making a little bit of

981
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 4: a game like that if you're going to be out

982
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 4: all day, can be kind of fun. And it also

983
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 4: makes you keep looking. It makes you not just look

984
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 4: down at your feet as you as you march another mile,

985
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 4: you know.

986
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, please, there's another great reminder. Please prepare for the weather,

987
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 2: prepare for the elements. Bring water, bring sunscreen, bring hats,

988
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 2: all that stuff.

989
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 1: Sunscreen can trap the chemical irritant next to your skin.

990
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 1: I like to wear a sun hoodie like you can

991
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 1: get hoodies with a SPF. I am pay a lass person, right,

992
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: some of you can see me.

993
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 3: For listeners, It is indeed true.

994
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 4: Who's gonna say, is that sun hoodie y? You in

995
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 4: no way have a watch tan?

996
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 3: Yeah?

997
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: Okay yeah, friends, friends can see my absolutely brutal tan

998
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: right now. When I was a bike racer, I used

999
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: to have the logos of my sponsors burned into my back.

1000
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 3: And that was cool and normal.

1001
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 4: That's unsettling, literal.

1002
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, yeah, that was a political moment for me. Actually, yeah,

1003
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: I like to wear sun hoody because sunscreen it can

1004
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: trap immergance against your skin. But if it's a creamy kind, right,

1005
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: I think after point it absorbs and it doesn't. But

1006
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,720
Speaker 1: I've definitely experienced that kind of paste on your skin

1007
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: kind of situation. Interesting, some of the gnalhliest like injuries

1008
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 1: I've seen have been heat related at protests. If you're

1009
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 1: organizing a protest, don't send it straight up a fucking hill,

1010
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 1: Like just don't let go easy on people. You know,

1011
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,879
Speaker 1: the people will be bringing a lot of stuff and

1012
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,439
Speaker 1: they have signs and stuff like a mant of weather

1013
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 1: comfy shoes. Go easy on them with the with the

1014
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: hill climbing. And then because you're doing it in the

1015
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: middle of the day often as well, like you know,

1016
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: don't help people, Richard. I know you were going to

1017
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: mention somebody else.

1018
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 5: The thing I was trying to to mention this is

1019
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,280
Speaker 5: this is less so for i'd say ems non physician individuals. Actually,

1020
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 5: before the podcast, I had a chance to talk with

1021
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 5: one of the regional vice presidents for CIR, the Physicians

1022
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 5: Union that I was formerly a part of when I

1023
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 5: was in my residency.

1024
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 3: Kayla.

1025
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 5: She has a lot of experience being involved in protests

1026
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 5: and street medicine, and the thing that she likes to

1027
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 5: mention is like, physicians have a tendency to want to

1028
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 5: do a lot in a moment, and so Miry mentioned

1029
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 5: situational awareness. I think situational awareness is extremely important.

1030
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 3: Being able to.

1031
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 5: Know when you have the time to to do a

1032
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 5: certain intervention versus when it's time to like get this

1033
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 5: person out of here and to a safer place, I

1034
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 5: think is like very very important.

1035
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 3: Ya, So less does.

1036
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 5: More in these situations, is what I would say is

1037
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 5: pretty important.

1038
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

1039
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: One thing I do like as a journalist, primarily not

1040
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: a visual one. I often work with photographers right as

1041
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: a two person team. I have been a photographer protest

1042
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: in the past, and your world is very small in

1043
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 1: that viewfinder, and it's kind of the same if you're

1044
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: helping someone right who's injured, that becomes your whole shit.

1045
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: I will have my physically have my hand on my

1046
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: photographer a lot of the time on their back right,

1047
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: and if they need to start moving backwards, I am

1048
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: going to start moving them backwards. Obviously, you don't want

1049
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,280
Speaker 1: to leave someone who's hurt but like if you're the buddy,

1050
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: it's good to be that close to the person who's

1051
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: providing care so that you can have a way out

1052
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: if you need to have a way out.

1053
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 2: This was so incredibly useful, helpful and insightful. We appreciate

1054
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 2: both of you coming on. Let's close up here. What

1055
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 2: I would like to do is not only plug something

1056
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,839
Speaker 2: for yourselves, but what I'd like to hear and our

1057
00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 2: listeners actually enjoy, is to hear something that's bringing you

1058
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 2: some joy in these times. Some piece of media, art, film, book, podcast, anything,

1059
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 2: you name it, a good restaurant that you really love.

1060
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 2: You want to give a shout out to whatever it is,

1061
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:14,839
Speaker 2: something that's bringing you a little bit of joy.

1062
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 3: So let's do those two things. Miriam.

1063
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 2: Let's start with you. What can we plug and what's

1064
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 2: something that's bringing you some joy?

1065
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 4: So thank you for having me on. This was delightful.

1066
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 4: So I will plug Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness, which

1067
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 4: is the collective that I'm a part of. You can

1068
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 4: find us at Tangled Wilderness on Blue Sky and Instagram

1069
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 4: and nowhere else. And we have a website which is

1070
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 4: Strangers and a Tangled Wilderness. We have a Patreon all

1071
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 4: that stuff. But the main thing I want to tell

1072
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 4: you about those guys over there is that James and

1073
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 4: I did a podcast recently for the show lives Like

1074
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 4: the World is Dying on protest health and safety, and

1075
00:56:55,680 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 4: we go really in detail on specifics of gear, specifics

1076
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,399
Speaker 4: of first aid techniques, and I think people should maybe

1077
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 4: check it out if they're if they're going to be

1078
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 4: out there.

1079
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:08,320
Speaker 1: We'll put it in the show note.

1080
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we're professional podcasters like that.

1081
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: You can craze on to take it happen here if

1082
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: you'd like to find the show notes.

1083
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 3: Right. Wait, Miriam, So what's the thing that's bringing you joy?

1084
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 8: Oh?

1085
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: I have remember that, Joey.

1086
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 4: I'm earlier with the concept. I have been rewatching the

1087
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 4: Shira and the Princesses of Power cartoon.

1088
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 3: Wow, nice love it? What about Jim? She is outrageous.

1089
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 4: You know they didn't remake that as an overtly queer

1090
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 4: Netflix series, so I have had less exposure to it.

1091
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 4: But you know, cartoons sword lesbians can't argue with it.

1092
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 3: Yeah that sounds pretty awesome, all right, Richard? What about you?

1093
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 5: As far as something to plug I am a huge

1094
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 5: pleasure of being able to work on onlue Sky, helping

1095
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 5: to put together the med Sky feeds. So if you're

1096
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 5: on blue Sky, be sure to subscribe to our labeler

1097
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 5: so that way you can get your medical specialty on

1098
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 5: your accounts and you can get your posts on one

1099
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 5: of our forty different feeds. And then also as a Latino,

1100
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 5: I can't leave the podcast without mentioning also we are

1101
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 5: working on Latin Sky and it's a it's it's a

1102
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 5: it's the amount of latinidad and joy that I've been

1103
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 5: seeing on that feed over the last few days, despite

1104
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 5: the pain, it's been very inspiring. So I think that's

1105
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,439
Speaker 5: like the plug that I want to put out there,

1106
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 5: and as far as a thing that brings me joy

1107
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 5: right now, I like I was torn. I heard it

1108
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 5: like a bunch of people have already plugged and or,

1109
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 5: so I'm not gonna plug and or.

1110
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 3: But can you yeah, you know, I'm gonna.

1111
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 5: I'm gonna give some love to Ryan Coogler's Cinners, which.

1112
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 3: Is easily one of the number of cast movies.

1113
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 5: I have seen in at least the last five years.

1114
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 5: It is an extraordinary movie. Every everything about that movie

1115
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 5: is like art. I just hope that Ryan cooler can

1116
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 5: just make original movies for the rest of his life

1117
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 5: and that he doesn't have to like be stuck doing

1118
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 5: franchise stuff because when he's just given a canvas, he

1119
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 5: he makes beautiful, beautiful art.

1120
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, right on, right on.

1121
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 2: That's for the So James, what about what about you?

1122
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 3: What we plug? What can you plug for you?

1123
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: What can I plug? There was a hot dog guy

1124
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: who went on the freeway in Los Angeles when everyone

1125
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: else went on the freeway, So that person's a fucking hero.

1126
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: I would let you know if you're if you're in

1127
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 1: the I'm vegan, so you know, maybe the bun, but

1128
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: for the rest of you, get after it. You know

1129
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: you can. You can listen to my podcast. You may

1130
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: be already are it could happen here if you have.

1131
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: I haven't listened. It would mean a look to me

1132
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: if you had listened to the podcast I made in

1133
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: the Dadian Gap last year when I traveled with migrants

1134
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: who were on their way to the United States. Those

1135
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 1: people and their stories are really important to me. So

1136
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 1: if you would listen to one thing I ever made,

1137
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: it would be that you can find it by searching

1138
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: Dadien where Dreams Die, and then it could happen here podcast,

1139
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: and it will come up unless you're using a really

1140
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: shit search engine a Google has been even more fucked

1141
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: by AI. And then, in terms of stuff that gives

1142
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: me joy, recently, I have been listening to like the

1143
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: music of the anti apartheid movement. Again, I kind of

1144
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 1: when I was a very young person, my sort of

1145
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: first exposure to activism was through people who had resisted

1146
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: apartheid in South Africa, and they were very inspiring to me,

1147
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: and they still are very inspiring to me. I listened

1148
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: to that music with them, right, Like apartheid, to be clear,

1149
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: ended when I was eight years old, but like it

1150
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: was cool because it seemed like at that point the

1151
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: good guys were winning, right and so hey, we fucking anyway.

1152
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: I listened to that because it reminds me that they

1153
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: always lose in the end. So yeah, I enjoy like

1154
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: the Specials and Eddie Grant and even the incredibly eclectic

1155
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 1: Sun City album.

1156
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 3: Great Choices, Great Choices.

1157
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 2: And for if you happen to be listening on the

1158
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 2: House of Pod, you've heard James come and talk about

1159
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 2: the Darien Gap. That was a really amazing story and

1160
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 2: it resonated with a lot of listeners, and you should

1161
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 2: listen to the full multi part series that he put

1162
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 2: out on that if it's so much better, So please

1163
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,919
Speaker 2: do that for me. If you happen to be listening

1164
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 2: on it could happen here. Listen to the House of Pod.

1165
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 3: You like it.

1166
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 2: You'll hear James and lots of people you already known

1167
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 2: love and meet some new people. And you'll hear us

1168
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 2: make fun of medical grifters in the wellness community and

1169
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 2: that sort.

1170
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: Of thing as well members of the cabinet.

1171
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 3: And I believe it. Yeah, boy.

1172
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 2: As for the thing that's bringing me joy, I recently

1173
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 2: had a chance to expose my kids on a long

1174
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 2: drive to the work of Jeff Buckley, who is for

1175
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 2: you younger listeners out there. You may not know who

1176
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 2: he was because he unfortunately passed away when he was

1177
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 2: only thirty, but he was really a once in a

1178
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 2: generation talent.

1179
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 3: His was a voice.

1180
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 2: His songwriting transcended different genres. There was rock, there's jazz,

1181
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 2: there was folk. He could span a vocal range that

1182
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 2: just really is amazing. And he only had one studio album, Grace,

1183
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 2: but it is amazing and I highly recommend that or

1184
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 2: really any of his Live Album's Mystery White Boy, They're

1185
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 2: all fantastic. His cover of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah is the

1186
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 2: best version of it in my opinion.

1187
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 3: I will fight you. I will fight you.

1188
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 2: If you say rufus waynewright better, I will physically fight you.

1189
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 2: So it's just raw and beautiful and I hope you

1190
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 2: guys check it out if you haven't already. Last thing

1191
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 2: I'll plug June twenty eighth, if you happen to be

1192
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 2: in the Bay Area, my band will be playing at

1193
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 2: the Hotel Utah in San Francisco. It is one of

1194
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 2: my favorite places to watch or play music, and it's

1195
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 2: just super fun. Come up and say hi, and we'll

1196
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 2: chat and we'll maybe share a drink if we have time. Okay,

1197
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 2: thank you all so much. Thanks James.

1198
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 3: This was fun. Huh yeah, that was fun.

1199
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,439
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. I had a nice time.

1200
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 3: Let's do it again.

1201
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 8: Okay, bye, it could happen. Here is a production of

1202
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 8: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1203
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 8: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1204
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 8: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

1205
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 8: to podcasts. You can now find sources for it could

1206
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 8: happen here. Listened directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.