WEBVTT - Division of Labor 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:04.880 Fine down with Janet Kramer and Michael Cosson and I 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:09.520 heard radio and People's Choice Awards nominated podcast. Is that 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:11.760 like a full moon or something or did it just happen? 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:15.160 It just happened. Oh, that's right, because we were looking 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:20.120 at it and I was saying, moon up sundown. That's 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:27.120 what our daughter says, moon up sundown. It's nighttime. Yeah, 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.120 I'm sorry, I'm trying to bring a little personality here, 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:35.479 but go ahead, Mike. Sorry where that was going. I 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.240 was just saying, because that we're having we're having technical difficulties, 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:41.960 you know, I just speaking of moons um And I 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.280 felt really stupid about this. But it was until I 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:46.440 had kids that I realized that the moon and the 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.600 moon does its own thing. Like when I always thought 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:51.680 the sun gets up in the daytime, moon's up at night. 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:53.920 But then my kids were like, why is the moon 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:55.760 out is three in the afternoon. I don't know. I'm 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:57.400 gonna look into this, and the moon just does its 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:58.960 own thing. It goes up and now whenever it feels 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:00.959 like I'm going up, and now I know, And that's 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:02.920 always what I was kind of telling Jolie too. I 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:05.360 was like, well, technically, the moon's always up, but it's 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:07.720 her way of saying it's night time. Yeah, saying it's 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.040 a nighttime, but she doesn't realize that's up during the day. 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:11.720 So I feel like when she does see it, she's 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.280 gonna be like, wait, what during the day if she 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.360 ever sees like I'm trying to like point it out 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.360 to her so that she can realize, like, technically, there's 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.760 stars in the moon are both out, and we're going 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.040 to have to answer those questions. Yeah, I can't believe 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:26.920 it took me to age thirty eight to know that 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:29.440 about the moon. That seems like basic information. Don't say 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.039 your thirty eight Mark, come on? Was when I found out? 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:37.520 All right, Michael, since since Mark and I don't have 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.720 very interesting conversation, what would you like to talk about it? 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.000 Just it just took me for a surprise. That's A'll 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:47.000 let you. That's great. I'm excited for our guest today. Yeah, 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.680 I am, because I want to talk about you know, 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.680 Busy Filiters came out with an article recently about her 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.600 considering divorcing her husband because she felt like she did everything. 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.720 You and I have had discussions about this on podcast 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.840 and you know live podcast shows that we've done when 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:07.000 we're toward We've talked about ourselves on divving up home 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:11.640 responsibilities and feeling like we either do less or more 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.600 or whatever it is. Yeah, I feel like it's so 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:19.000 we've talked it out though, But she's written a book 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:23.079 about it. She's specialist about this and has a whole 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.600 kind of scientific process behind it. Well, then I'm interested 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.400 to hear the scientific part of it because so many people, 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.400 even after we've talked about it, they're like, Jan's whiney, Like, 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:37.000 of course moms do the laundry. But it doesn't have 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:42.880 to be that stereotype. Oh says the man that's like, 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.320 well that's what women do. When did I ever say 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:51.320 that with the kids stuff. I'm just saying, you guys 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.680 just take charge on some things. Yeah, it's because, okay, 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:57.799 because it would be such a mess if it wasn't. 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:59.520 But well, again, we've talked about this at least five 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:01.359 times on the podcast already. But this is great because 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.160 she's the Marie Condo, they say, of marital responsibility. She 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.679 can fix these problems. But there is a chicken and 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.480 egg element of it, like does the wife do everything 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.160 because the husband's lazy? Or does the wife do everything 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:13.959 because she needs it done a certain way and he's 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.680 only going to screw it up. I think it's both, Yeah, 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:18.760 I truly do, because I don't think they care enough 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.640 to do it the right way and they don't think 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.080 they ca Yeah, I think I don't think you care, 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:27.240 or you're lazy and you don't care enough. It's kind 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:32.600 of both. That's kind of harsh. I mean, I think 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.200 a lot of wives would agree with me. It's really aggressive. 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.480 I'm sorry, lazy and we don't care. No, I'm saying, like, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.000 I think that's how your persona comes off with it. 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.560 That's y'all's perception. Maybe okay, But again, so because we 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:50.040 don't do it the way you want, it's again, no, 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:51.560 it's not that's the right way. It's just like you 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.000 guys would let the laundry fill up to like the 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.760 top and then still not do the kids laundry or 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:58.840 put it away the right or put it away at all, 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:00.760 and just like let it just kind of sit on 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.200 the dresser until it goes back down to the bottom, 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:04.960 like like the top of the dresser, not actually in 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.360 the dresser. It's like, you know, you actually can put 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.880 the clothes, like you're laying it on the dresser. You don't, 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:11.560 you know. So it's just I just I think there's 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.320 a combination of both. But again, we don't care about 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.960 the garage. But again I don't know, So that's kind 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.640 of I guess that where it goes stereotype there because 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:22.599 we don't we could give two craps about the garage. 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:27.960 You know you care about the garage, Well, I do, 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:29.680 because it's still a mess and I want to clean 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:31.440 it up. But I'm like, no, it's your domain. Like 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.400 I want to go and organize the thing that you 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.520 said was going to organize our garage and it still 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:37.880 looks like a mess, right, And it's one of those 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:41.240 things that's it's on the list, But it's how many 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:42.760 other things do we have that's on the on the 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:44.720 priority list? Where if I was out there doing that, 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:46.160 you'd be like, why are you doing this right now 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:51.040 when you should be doing this doing whatever something else. 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.200 I feel like you're you guys would find something else 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:57.720 that's more important to maybe you to take away from 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.840 what we're doing. I just again, I think it's just 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.880 like priorities, you know, But it's well, I'm very interested 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.880 to now talk to her since she has a hopefully 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.360 a method to the madness. Is she Is she there yet? Mark? 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.760 She is um before we bring her in. How are 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.520 you guys doing? Yeah, we're great. We maybe get a 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.200 little update on how life spent for you too. Well, 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:22.440 I'm not. I was out on the boat last week, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:24.520 so I think you know, if he wants to say anything, 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.520 he can say any thing. But I was like last 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.240 week and then I just got a few So if 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:33.159 you want to say something, you totally can. When you 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.400 said something the other day that that maybe a point 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.159 when you said something it kind of triggered me into 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.320 getting quiet. Do you remember what it was? Yeah? The 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:43.960 second that I told you about the articles is when 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:47.360 you completely shut down. That's right, because yeah, I get 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.159 like that sometimes when I feel like that is being 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.359 used against me, like what people are saying that bothers me, 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.400 that triggers me. But you know, still, I didn't handle 0:05:57.400 --> 0:05:59.200 it the best last week, and I was angry and 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.640 I was bitter, and I just kind of let everything 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.760 get under my skin, which usually I don't when it 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:09.680 comes to outside uh information or people or tabloids or 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:15.360 whatever that don't matter in a relationship. Um, but ultimately, 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.440 you know, I'm sorry for how I handled the situation. 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.280 I'm sorry that Jannah had to feel what she had 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.800 to feel and that it was so triggering, and you know, 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.240 it's one of those things that it just you know, 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:30.640 I handled it poorly, and it sucks that something that 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.320 seems so simple was so difficult to do. But Jane 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.480 and I are in a much better place now and 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.480 continue to process it and handle it. But yeah, we're 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.240 doing way better. You know why we're also doing way 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:46.799 better is because we're sleeping really nice. And why's that, honey? 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.360 With our Brooklyn and sheets. Uh, the other day I 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:54.080 was doing laundry, of course, and I was separating the laundry, 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:56.560 and I was making sure that I separated because somehow 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:58.919 the Brooklyn and sheets got on the guest bed sheets. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.360 And the other day You're like, why are the Brooklyn 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:03.600 sheets down? I'm like, well, I think they're in the 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.520 guest room. So when our guests left, I made sure 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:08.680 I did the laundry and then separated them to make 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.520 sure that our sheets were then swapped out with those sheets, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.440 because I think of those things. Um, Brooklyn and Sheets 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.320 are awesome. They were the winner of the best of 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.280 online betting by Good Housekeeping magazine and they have over 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.560 thirty five five star reviews UM, more than any other 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.600 online betting company. So their mission is to make comfortable 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.200 luxury sheets, towels, betting and more without the luxury markup. Again, 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.240 these are our favorite sheets, honest hand to god. UM, 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.640 we love them. Most. 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That's Brooklyn 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.320 and b R Okay, l I N E N dot 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.640 Com promo co Jan and Brooklyn and these really truly 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:18.960 are the best sheets ever. Okay, super excited. UM, Mike 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:20.840 and I both are very excited about this. We have 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:26.720 eve Rod Sky and Studio. How are you right? I'm 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.240 so excited to be here. I'm so excited to have you. 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.000 Can we just just go right into it because it's 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.040 kind of been the Great Age debate, great Old age 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:39.840 debate for all generations. Um, first off, though, are you married? 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:45.280 I'm married with three children ag eight and three. Okay? Perfect? 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.880 So that like right there kind of seals your authent 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.079 your your authenticity on it because I'm like, okay, if 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:55.040 she's not married, yeah, this girl, like I don't know, 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:59.600 like like because of teen years in marriage, three children, 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:01.640 hopping on the side of the road over text my 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:03.600 husband sent me that just said I'm surprised you didn't 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:08.679 get blueberries. So I've been in it perfect. So start 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:13.520 from the beginning. You know, why did you write this book? Um? 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.760 What was your like, what was your reasoning behind it? 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.880 Was just too not like other wive seal alone? Or 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.120 is it just kind of the scientific part behind a bit? 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.880 Both both? Um, But it really did start with my 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:30.240 own personal story of getting a text after my second son, 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.319 Ben was born seven years ago, eight years ago that said, 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.200 I'm surprised you didn't get blueberries, and you can picture 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.520 the scene. I had a breast pump and a diaper 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:43.280 bag on my passenger seat. I had gifts for to 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.800 return from a new baby because stores give you like 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.600 one day return policy. Um. In the back seat, I 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.240 have a client contract on my lap with like a 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.120 pen sort of poking me in the vagina as I'm 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:58.480 trying to right mark up a contract at every red 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.400 traffic lightstop the way to pick up my second son, 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.760 who's two years and eight months at his toddler transition program, 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.840 which in America lasts like again ten minutes because people 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:13.000 we really value working parents here in America, and so um, 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:14.560 even though I was gonna be late to pick up 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.040 Zach when the text came in, I'm surprised you didn't 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.760 get blueberries. I just pulled over to the side of 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.880 the road and I started sobbing, and I was thinking, well, 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:26.800 but I was really thinking was ship. If my marriage 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.960 is going to end, it should be over something way 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.480 more dramatic now, like you know, maybe like an affair 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.760 with an NFL player or something better for me. But um, 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.640 what I was really thinking was how did I become 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:42.520 the default for every single household and childcare tasks women do? 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.280 Two thirds two thirds of what it takes to run 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.600 a home and family, regardless of whether we work outside 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.360 the home, a statistic that I was living at the 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:55.559 time but didn't even know about. YEA interesting. I hear 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.040 you and I share all that weight. I feel like 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.080 that's every day for jama Oh I know I and 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.360 truly and I was like, yeah, it's like and he 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.680 he kind of mocks me sometimes he's like, you're carrying 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.880 ten things, got a kid, You're on the phone doing 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.160 a business call, you're you know, cleaning up whatever. And 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.080 then it's like, you know, he's still working on that 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:16.280 one task, right, That's that. That is where I was, 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:21.760 and I will say that, um, blueberries guy is the 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.200 most amazing man. Now he's holding all of the cards. 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:27.240 That's the fair Play metaphor. While I've been on this 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.760 book tour and our relationship is completely transformed. But it 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:33.720 was this is not a memoir. I wrote fair Play 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.120 Now as a memoir. Once that happened, when I was 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.679 sobbing on the side of the road, I decided to 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:43.080 go on a quest to find a solution for domestic rebalance. 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.880 And the good news is is I've read every single 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:50.120 article in book on this topic of what's called second shift, 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:56.200 emotional labor, mental load, invisible work. And not only that, 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.720 I went out and interviewed five men and women that 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.840 mirrored mirror the U. S Census in terms of socio 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.880 economic status and ethnicity. And the good news for fair 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.120 Play and the bad news for societies. It's happening to 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:13.280 women everywhere, couples everywhere. Is it unbalanced because we do 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:17.240 it to ourselves? It's a great question. I think that 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:21.000 what I found, my biggest finding was that the smallest 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.240 details were causing the biggest problems. And so even though 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:26.240 fair Play sort of started as my love letter to women, 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:28.920 ended up as my love letter to men. I had 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:30.840 men all over the country telling me things like they 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.439 were locked out of their home over a glue stick. 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:36.959 I had a man in white planes literally telling me 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.240 that he was deciding does he drive into New York 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.360 City and get a hotel room, is his wife going 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.280 to calm down? Does he get let back in his home? 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.440 And from her perspective, I found out later she had 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.440 been working for three weeks on a Homer project besides 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.480 working full time, and all she needed was to glue 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:57.160 the Albert Einstein photos on the poster board and her 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.400 husband couldn't even bring home a glue stick. But that 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.719 Sam's just disrespectful. Well, I actually look at it from 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.840 the male perspective because what I call in the book, 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.240 I call that a rat F. I don't know if 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.560 I'm a sakers here, but the rat f, the rat 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:17.120 four letter word F is the random assignment of a task. 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.679 And so all over this country, men were getting screwed 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.920 with rats. Pick up the glue stick, go to the 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.840 store for me, go um, go, take the kid to 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.439 the birthday party, and not having any address. An assistant 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:33.800 New York Times came out with an article said that 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:35.480 the only way to get men to do more is 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.679 to train them, and I had a man say, I'm 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.720 not a dog, right. So this has became my love 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:43.640 letter to men because I realized that this is not 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.439 working for either of us. It's not working for me 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.120 to be sobbing on the side of the road and 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.680 feeling overwhelmed, but it was also not working for men. 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.400 They wanted to know their role in the home, and 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.600 so that's that's where it came from. And it's interesting too, 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.160 because I feel like when it's something like the example 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.760 you used to even about the glue stick. It's maybe 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.120 in our perspective, like I can understand how that would 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.360 be so impactful if that's all they asked for. Maybe 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:10.600 you know, some women don't ask a lot of their husbands, 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:12.320 and the one thing they asked them to do they 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.640 can't do. I get the importance of that, but also 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:17.120 being on the receiving side of it, sometimes I would 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.800 feel unfair because then it puts all this weight into 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:26.200 this singular, seemingly insignificant task. That's like, oh wait, what, 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:28.480 how do you now all of a sudden, I don't 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.160 love you, I don't care about you. I disrespect you 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.080 because I didn't get a glue stick. I think that's 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.280 so beautiful the way you just articulated that, because that's 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.240 what I was hearing from men everywhere. So I'll give 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.480 you really the core of the fair play system, right, 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.360 the core of the fair play system. What I found 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.760 is if we treat our home like an organization with 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.200 some respect and rigor the way we treat our workplace, 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:52.320 everything changes. So I'll give you an example, Mustard, back 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:54.760 to what you were saying about the glue stick, Mustard, 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.000 somebody needs to know in your household, that your second 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.600 son Johnny, only eats protein when he dips it in 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.840 French as yellow mustard. That's what I call conception. Then 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.480 somebody writes it down on a list when it looks 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.800 going low and the refrigerator along with the other groceries 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:17.080 for the week. That's planning. Then somebody gets their butt 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:18.720 to the store, has to get to the butt to 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.880 the store to actually purchase the yellow mustard. That's execution. 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:25.880 And all over the country, what I found is that's 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.560 when men are stepping in. And that's a serious problem. 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:33.040 Because you always bring home spicy dijon, you just do, 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.600 and I asked you for yellow mustard. And so men 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:38.480 all over the country were saying things to me like, well, 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.240 I'm not going to go back to the store because 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:45.680 I can't do anything right. Whereas women were saying to me, 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:49.280 you're asking me eve to trust them with my living 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.480 will my partner with my living Well, he can't even 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.240 bring home the right type of mustard. So as a mediator, 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.560 I like to say, the presenting problem is never the 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.960 real problem. This is not about mustard or sticks. It's 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:07.200 about trust and ownership and expectations. So what happens when 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:11.480 you handle the full mustard situation from conception to planning 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.280 to execution, then you know what mustard to get. And 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.960 so my entire book fair Play is all about the 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.440 fact that fifty fifty is the wrong equation. When we 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:24.800 can move to an understanding that it's not about fifty 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.840 because that's scorekeeping, but it's about ownership, own the full 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:35.440 mustard situation, and things start to change really quickly. What 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:41.320 else have you seen from a um scientifical background part 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.360 of it, Like, is there anything that's to be said 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:45.840 about you know that men truly can only do one 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:47.920 thing at once, or they have to have their one 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:49.880 task kind of like my husband says, he's like, you know, 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:53.400 he focuses on one thing and one thing only. Okay, great, 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.600 I love that you asked about the science. So the 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:01.040 biggest finding that I found, the biggest finding, which is 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.280 the core of the whole fair Play system, is an 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.800 expectation and understanding from my research. And then I'll tell 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.359 you about the actual science, you know, the real UM 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.159 time you know, time journal psychology, and sociology. But what 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:20.040 I found was that men women in society view men's 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:25.320 time as finite, like diamonds, and women's time is infinite 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:30.760 like sand. Now I just said men women in society, 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.760 so we can understand. Okay, men all over we're saying 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.520 things to me like I don't have time. I don't 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.879 have time, but my wife has time. So yes, we 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.879 can understand for men. But the biggest problem that I 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.960 found was that women also don't value their time. So 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.639 women all over the country were saying things to me like, oh, 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.280 of course I should go get the mustard, pick up 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.760 the extra slack, pick up my kids from school because 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:01.320 my husband makes more money than me. Not true. Other 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.119 women were saying to me, I do this because I'm 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.119 a better multitasker. I'm wired differently, and my husband can 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.240 or my partner can only handle one thing at a time. 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.640 I went to the top neuroscientists in this country. There 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.879 is no science that has ever proven that women are 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:22.679 better multitaskers or are wired differently. Actually, one said to 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.159 me off the record, which I'm gonna use here, but 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.879 I can't quote him. He said to me, imagine, you 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:34.159 can convince half the population that they're wired better to 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:38.960 wipe asses and do dishes. You can convince them that 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.840 they're better at wiping asses and doing dishes. Well, guess what, 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.439 maybe we'll end up with a Forbes list that just 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:47.720 came out last month that has a hundred CEOs on 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:52.800 it and n of them are men. So no science 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.120 to prove that we're wired differently than men. Can only 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.760 focus on one task at the time. Um, and then 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:00.320 other women were saying to me, in the time it 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.160 takes me to tell him what to do, I might 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:04.960 as well do it myself. I think. I went to 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:09.000 which which I which I understand. But where I know 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.439 Jane and I come into run into like obstacles with 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.520 that is, well, don't hold it against me or you know, 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.080 as as speaking from almen, don't hold it against us. 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.360 If it's something that you just said, you just rather 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:25.639 do absolutely. And I went to the top behavioral economists 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.200 in this country. His name is Dan Arielli. He's a 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:30.679 best selling author. And I said to him, does that 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.320 make sense? He said, if you look in the long term, 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.320 the long term makes no sense to say that, because 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.080 that's short term thinking. Long term you actually do tell 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:43.479 the other person with some context how to do something 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.080 or how you want to invite them to the table, 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:47.760 because when it saves you hours and hours in the future, 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.960 but women weren't thinking that way. My favorite was when 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:55.399 women said to me, um, yeah, we're both colorectal surgeons, 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:59.199 we're both shipping supervisors. But my husband's busy and I 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.359 can find the time. We'll see, and that's the time thing. 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:03.800 Is what I kind of wanted to bring up because 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:05.919 I feel like that's where we have some of our 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:08.639 biggest struggle. Even just when we were first talking on 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:10.600 the podcast today, it was like, He's like, well, when 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:12.239 when do we have time? And in my head, I'm like, 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.480 there's there's so much time to do a lot of things. 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:20.040 It's about prioritizing that and it's not like and so 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.040 I think that's like where my frustration comes in as 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.399 a wife in this relationship is just like you, you 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:29.560 don't you can make the time for anything, correct, and 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.479 women do. But what women were saying where that they 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.119 can find time and men couldn't. So the problem is 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.960 we have to value our own time. We have to 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.440 believe society has to believe that women get as much 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:45.560 choice over how they use their time as men do. Men. 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.600 According to Professor Darby Saxby, Um, a psychologist out of 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.960 USC that helped me with um consulting for the book 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.240 shows that in her leisure time studies, men take twice 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:58.639 as much leisure time than women. Well that's also it 0:20:58.680 --> 0:20:59.919