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Speaker 1: Fine down with Janet Kramer and Michael Cosson and I

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Speaker 1: heard radio and People's Choice Awards nominated podcast. Is that

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Speaker 1: like a full moon or something or did it just happen?

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Speaker 1: It just happened. Oh, that's right, because we were looking

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Speaker 1: at it and I was saying, moon up sundown. That's

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Speaker 1: what our daughter says, moon up sundown. It's nighttime. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm trying to bring a little personality here,

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Speaker 1: but go ahead, Mike. Sorry where that was going. I

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Speaker 1: was just saying, because that we're having we're having technical difficulties,

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Speaker 1: you know, I just speaking of moons um And I

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Speaker 1: felt really stupid about this. But it was until I

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Speaker 1: had kids that I realized that the moon and the

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Speaker 1: moon does its own thing. Like when I always thought

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Speaker 1: the sun gets up in the daytime, moon's up at night.

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Speaker 1: But then my kids were like, why is the moon

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Speaker 1: out is three in the afternoon. I don't know. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna look into this, and the moon just does its

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Speaker 1: own thing. It goes up and now whenever it feels

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Speaker 1: like I'm going up, and now I know, And that's

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Speaker 1: always what I was kind of telling Jolie too. I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, technically, the moon's always up, but it's

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Speaker 1: her way of saying it's night time. Yeah, saying it's

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Speaker 1: a nighttime, but she doesn't realize that's up during the day.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like when she does see it, she's

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Speaker 1: gonna be like, wait, what during the day if she

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Speaker 1: ever sees like I'm trying to like point it out

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Speaker 1: to her so that she can realize, like, technically, there's

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Speaker 1: stars in the moon are both out, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to have to answer those questions. Yeah, I can't believe

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Speaker 1: it took me to age thirty eight to know that

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Speaker 1: about the moon. That seems like basic information. Don't say

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Speaker 1: your thirty eight Mark, come on? Was when I found out?

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Speaker 1: All right, Michael, since since Mark and I don't have

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Speaker 1: very interesting conversation, what would you like to talk about it?

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Speaker 1: Just it just took me for a surprise. That's A'll

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Speaker 1: let you. That's great. I'm excited for our guest today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I am, because I want to talk about you know,

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Speaker 1: Busy Filiters came out with an article recently about her

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Speaker 1: considering divorcing her husband because she felt like she did everything.

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Speaker 1: You and I have had discussions about this on podcast

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Speaker 1: and you know live podcast shows that we've done when

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Speaker 1: we're toward We've talked about ourselves on divving up home

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Speaker 1: responsibilities and feeling like we either do less or more

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is. Yeah, I feel like it's so

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Speaker 1: we've talked it out though, But she's written a book

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Speaker 1: about it. She's specialist about this and has a whole

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Speaker 1: kind of scientific process behind it. Well, then I'm interested

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Speaker 1: to hear the scientific part of it because so many people,

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Speaker 1: even after we've talked about it, they're like, Jan's whiney, Like,

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Speaker 1: of course moms do the laundry. But it doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be that stereotype. Oh says the man that's like,

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Speaker 1: well that's what women do. When did I ever say

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Speaker 1: that with the kids stuff. I'm just saying, you guys

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Speaker 1: just take charge on some things. Yeah, it's because, okay,

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Speaker 1: because it would be such a mess if it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: But well, again, we've talked about this at least five

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Speaker 1: times on the podcast already. But this is great because

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Speaker 1: she's the Marie Condo, they say, of marital responsibility. She

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Speaker 1: can fix these problems. But there is a chicken and

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Speaker 1: egg element of it, like does the wife do everything

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Speaker 1: because the husband's lazy? Or does the wife do everything

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Speaker 1: because she needs it done a certain way and he's

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Speaker 1: only going to screw it up. I think it's both, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I truly do, because I don't think they care enough

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Speaker 1: to do it the right way and they don't think

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Speaker 1: they ca Yeah, I think I don't think you care,

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Speaker 1: or you're lazy and you don't care enough. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of both. That's kind of harsh. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of wives would agree with me. It's really aggressive.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, lazy and we don't care. No, I'm saying, like,

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Speaker 1: I think that's how your persona comes off with it.

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Speaker 1: That's y'all's perception. Maybe okay, But again, so because we

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Speaker 1: don't do it the way you want, it's again, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not that's the right way. It's just like you

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Speaker 1: guys would let the laundry fill up to like the

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Speaker 1: top and then still not do the kids laundry or

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Speaker 1: put it away the right or put it away at all,

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Speaker 1: and just like let it just kind of sit on

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Speaker 1: the dresser until it goes back down to the bottom,

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Speaker 1: like like the top of the dresser, not actually in

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Speaker 1: the dresser. It's like, you know, you actually can put

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Speaker 1: the clothes, like you're laying it on the dresser. You don't,

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Speaker 1: you know. So it's just I just I think there's

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Speaker 1: a combination of both. But again, we don't care about

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Speaker 1: the garage. But again I don't know, So that's kind

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Speaker 1: of I guess that where it goes stereotype there because

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Speaker 1: we don't we could give two craps about the garage.

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Speaker 1: You know you care about the garage, Well, I do,

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Speaker 1: because it's still a mess and I want to clean

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Speaker 1: it up. But I'm like, no, it's your domain. Like

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Speaker 1: I want to go and organize the thing that you

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Speaker 1: said was going to organize our garage and it still

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Speaker 1: looks like a mess, right, And it's one of those

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Speaker 1: things that's it's on the list, But it's how many

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Speaker 1: other things do we have that's on the on the

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Speaker 1: priority list? Where if I was out there doing that,

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Speaker 1: you'd be like, why are you doing this right now

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Speaker 1: when you should be doing this doing whatever something else.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're you guys would find something else

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Speaker 1: that's more important to maybe you to take away from

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Speaker 1: what we're doing. I just again, I think it's just

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Speaker 1: like priorities, you know, But it's well, I'm very interested

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Speaker 1: to now talk to her since she has a hopefully

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Speaker 1: a method to the madness. Is she Is she there yet? Mark?

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Speaker 1: She is um before we bring her in. How are

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Speaker 1: you guys doing? Yeah, we're great. We maybe get a

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Speaker 1: little update on how life spent for you too. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not. I was out on the boat last week,

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Speaker 1: so I think you know, if he wants to say anything,

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Speaker 1: he can say any thing. But I was like last

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Speaker 1: week and then I just got a few So if

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Speaker 1: you want to say something, you totally can. When you

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Speaker 1: said something the other day that that maybe a point

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Speaker 1: when you said something it kind of triggered me into

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Speaker 1: getting quiet. Do you remember what it was? Yeah? The

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Speaker 1: second that I told you about the articles is when

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Speaker 1: you completely shut down. That's right, because yeah, I get

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Speaker 1: like that sometimes when I feel like that is being

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Speaker 1: used against me, like what people are saying that bothers me,

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Speaker 1: that triggers me. But you know, still, I didn't handle

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Speaker 1: it the best last week, and I was angry and

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Speaker 1: I was bitter, and I just kind of let everything

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Speaker 1: get under my skin, which usually I don't when it

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Speaker 1: comes to outside uh information or people or tabloids or

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Speaker 1: whatever that don't matter in a relationship. Um, but ultimately,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm sorry for how I handled the situation.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry that Jannah had to feel what she had

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Speaker 1: to feel and that it was so triggering, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's one of those things that it just you know,

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Speaker 1: I handled it poorly, and it sucks that something that

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Speaker 1: seems so simple was so difficult to do. But Jane

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Speaker 1: and I are in a much better place now and

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Speaker 1: continue to process it and handle it. But yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: doing way better. You know why we're also doing way

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Speaker 1: better is because we're sleeping really nice. And why's that, honey?

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Speaker 1: With our Brooklyn and sheets. Uh, the other day I

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Speaker 1: was doing laundry, of course, and I was separating the laundry,

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Speaker 1: and I was making sure that I separated because somehow

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Speaker 1: the Brooklyn and sheets got on the guest bed sheets.

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Speaker 1: And the other day You're like, why are the Brooklyn

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Speaker 1: guest room. So when our guests left, I made sure

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Speaker 1: I did the laundry and then separated them to make

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Speaker 1: and I both are very excited about this. We have

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Speaker 1: eve Rod Sky and Studio. How are you right? I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited to be here. I'm so excited to have you.

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Speaker 1: Can we just just go right into it because it's

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Speaker 1: kind of been the Great Age debate, great Old age

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Speaker 1: debate for all generations. Um, first off, though, are you married?

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Speaker 1: I'm married with three children ag eight and three. Okay? Perfect?

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Speaker 1: So that like right there kind of seals your authent

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Speaker 1: your your authenticity on it because I'm like, okay, if

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Speaker 1: she's not married, yeah, this girl, like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like like because of teen years in marriage, three children,

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Speaker 1: hopping on the side of the road over text my

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Speaker 1: husband sent me that just said I'm surprised you didn't

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Speaker 1: get blueberries. So I've been in it perfect. So start

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Speaker 1: from the beginning. You know, why did you write this book? Um?

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Speaker 1: What was your like, what was your reasoning behind it?

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Speaker 1: Was just too not like other wive seal alone? Or

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Speaker 1: is it just kind of the scientific part behind a bit?

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Speaker 1: Both both? Um, But it really did start with my

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Speaker 1: own personal story of getting a text after my second son,

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Speaker 1: Ben was born seven years ago, eight years ago that said,

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Speaker 1: I'm surprised you didn't get blueberries, and you can picture

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Speaker 1: the scene. I had a breast pump and a diaper

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Speaker 1: bag on my passenger seat. I had gifts for to

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Speaker 1: return from a new baby because stores give you like

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Speaker 1: one day return policy. Um. In the back seat, I

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Speaker 1: have a client contract on my lap with like a

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Speaker 1: pen sort of poking me in the vagina as I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to right mark up a contract at every red

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Speaker 1: traffic lightstop the way to pick up my second son,

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Speaker 1: who's two years and eight months at his toddler transition program,

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Speaker 1: which in America lasts like again ten minutes because people

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Speaker 1: we really value working parents here in America, and so um,

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Speaker 1: even though I was gonna be late to pick up

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Speaker 1: Zach when the text came in, I'm surprised you didn't

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Speaker 1: get blueberries. I just pulled over to the side of

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Speaker 1: the road and I started sobbing, and I was thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: but I was really thinking was ship. If my marriage

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Speaker 1: is going to end, it should be over something way

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Speaker 1: more dramatic now, like you know, maybe like an affair

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Speaker 1: with an NFL player or something better for me. But um,

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Speaker 1: what I was really thinking was how did I become

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Speaker 1: the default for every single household and childcare tasks women do?

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Speaker 1: Two thirds two thirds of what it takes to run

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Speaker 1: a home and family, regardless of whether we work outside

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Speaker 1: the home, a statistic that I was living at the

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Speaker 1: time but didn't even know about. YEA interesting. I hear

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Speaker 1: you and I share all that weight. I feel like

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Speaker 1: that's every day for jama Oh I know I and

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Speaker 1: truly and I was like, yeah, it's like and he

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Speaker 1: he kind of mocks me sometimes he's like, you're carrying

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Speaker 1: ten things, got a kid, You're on the phone doing

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Speaker 1: a business call, you're you know, cleaning up whatever. And

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Speaker 1: then it's like, you know, he's still working on that

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Speaker 1: one task, right, That's that. That is where I was,

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Speaker 1: and I will say that, um, blueberries guy is the

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Speaker 1: most amazing man. Now he's holding all of the cards.

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Speaker 1: That's the fair Play metaphor. While I've been on this

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Speaker 1: book tour and our relationship is completely transformed. But it

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Speaker 1: was this is not a memoir. I wrote fair Play

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Speaker 1: Now as a memoir. Once that happened, when I was

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Speaker 1: sobbing on the side of the road, I decided to

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Speaker 1: go on a quest to find a solution for domestic rebalance.

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Speaker 1: And the good news is is I've read every single

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Speaker 1: article in book on this topic of what's called second shift,

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Speaker 1: emotional labor, mental load, invisible work. And not only that,

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Speaker 1: I went out and interviewed five men and women that

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Speaker 1: mirrored mirror the U. S Census in terms of socio

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Speaker 1: economic status and ethnicity. And the good news for fair

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Speaker 1: Play and the bad news for societies. It's happening to

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Speaker 1: women everywhere, couples everywhere. Is it unbalanced because we do

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Speaker 1: it to ourselves? It's a great question. I think that

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Speaker 1: what I found, my biggest finding was that the smallest

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Speaker 1: details were causing the biggest problems. And so even though

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Speaker 1: fair Play sort of started as my love letter to women,

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Speaker 1: ended up as my love letter to men. I had

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Speaker 1: men all over the country telling me things like they

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Speaker 1: were locked out of their home over a glue stick.

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Speaker 1: I had a man in white planes literally telling me

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Speaker 1: that he was deciding does he drive into New York

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Speaker 1: City and get a hotel room, is his wife going

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Speaker 1: to calm down? Does he get let back in his home?

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Speaker 1: And from her perspective, I found out later she had

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Speaker 1: been working for three weeks on a Homer project besides

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Speaker 1: working full time, and all she needed was to glue

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Speaker 1: the Albert Einstein photos on the poster board and her

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Speaker 1: husband couldn't even bring home a glue stick. But that

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Speaker 1: Sam's just disrespectful. Well, I actually look at it from

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Speaker 1: the male perspective because what I call in the book,

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Speaker 1: I call that a rat F. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I'm a sakers here, but the rat f, the rat

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Speaker 1: four letter word F is the random assignment of a task.

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Speaker 1: And so all over this country, men were getting screwed

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Speaker 1: with rats. Pick up the glue stick, go to the

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Speaker 1: store for me, go um, go, take the kid to

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Speaker 1: the birthday party, and not having any address. An assistant

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Speaker 1: New York Times came out with an article said that

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Speaker 1: the only way to get men to do more is

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Speaker 1: to train them, and I had a man say, I'm

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Speaker 1: not a dog, right. So this has became my love

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Speaker 1: letter to men because I realized that this is not

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Speaker 1: working for either of us. It's not working for me

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Speaker 1: to be sobbing on the side of the road and

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Speaker 1: feeling overwhelmed, but it was also not working for men.

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Speaker 1: They wanted to know their role in the home, and

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Speaker 1: so that's that's where it came from. And it's interesting too,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like when it's something like the example

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Speaker 1: you used to even about the glue stick. It's maybe

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Speaker 1: in our perspective, like I can understand how that would

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Speaker 1: be so impactful if that's all they asked for. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you know, some women don't ask a lot of their husbands,

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Speaker 1: and the one thing they asked them to do they

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Speaker 1: can't do. I get the importance of that, but also

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Speaker 1: being on the receiving side of it, sometimes I would

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Speaker 1: feel unfair because then it puts all this weight into

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Speaker 1: this singular, seemingly insignificant task. That's like, oh wait, what,

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Speaker 1: how do you now all of a sudden, I don't

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Speaker 1: love you, I don't care about you. I disrespect you

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Speaker 1: because I didn't get a glue stick. I think that's

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Speaker 1: so beautiful the way you just articulated that, because that's

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Speaker 1: what I was hearing from men everywhere. So I'll give

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Speaker 1: you really the core of the fair play system, right,

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Speaker 1: the core of the fair play system. What I found

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Speaker 1: is if we treat our home like an organization with

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Speaker 1: some respect and rigor the way we treat our workplace,

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Speaker 1: everything changes. So I'll give you an example, Mustard, back

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Speaker 1: to what you were saying about the glue stick, Mustard,

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Speaker 1: somebody needs to know in your household, that your second

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Speaker 1: son Johnny, only eats protein when he dips it in

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Speaker 1: French as yellow mustard. That's what I call conception. Then

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Speaker 1: somebody writes it down on a list when it looks

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Speaker 1: going low and the refrigerator along with the other groceries

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Speaker 1: for the week. That's planning. Then somebody gets their butt

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Speaker 1: to the store, has to get to the butt to

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Speaker 1: the store to actually purchase the yellow mustard. That's execution.

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Speaker 1: And all over the country, what I found is that's

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Speaker 1: when men are stepping in. And that's a serious problem.

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Speaker 1: Because you always bring home spicy dijon, you just do,

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Speaker 1: and I asked you for yellow mustard. And so men

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Speaker 1: all over the country were saying things to me like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to go back to the store because

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Speaker 1: I can't do anything right. Whereas women were saying to me,

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Speaker 1: you're asking me eve to trust them with my living

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Speaker 1: will my partner with my living Well, he can't even

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Speaker 1: bring home the right type of mustard. So as a mediator,

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Speaker 1: I like to say, the presenting problem is never the

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Speaker 1: real problem. This is not about mustard or sticks. It's

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Speaker 1: about trust and ownership and expectations. So what happens when

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Speaker 1: you handle the full mustard situation from conception to planning

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Speaker 1: to execution, then you know what mustard to get. And

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Speaker 1: so my entire book fair Play is all about the

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Speaker 1: fact that fifty fifty is the wrong equation. When we

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Speaker 1: can move to an understanding that it's not about fifty

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Speaker 1: because that's scorekeeping, but it's about ownership, own the full

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Speaker 1: mustard situation, and things start to change really quickly. What

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Speaker 1: else have you seen from a um scientifical background part

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Speaker 1: of it, Like, is there anything that's to be said

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Speaker 1: about you know that men truly can only do one

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Speaker 1: thing at once, or they have to have their one

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Speaker 1: task kind of like my husband says, he's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he focuses on one thing and one thing only. Okay, great,

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Speaker 1: I love that you asked about the science. So the

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Speaker 1: biggest finding that I found, the biggest finding, which is

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Speaker 1: the core of the whole fair Play system, is an

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Speaker 1: expectation and understanding from my research. And then I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you about the actual science, you know, the real UM

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Speaker 1: time you know, time journal psychology, and sociology. But what

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Speaker 1: I found was that men women in society view men's

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Speaker 1: time as finite, like diamonds, and women's time is infinite

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Speaker 1: like sand. Now I just said men women in society,

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Speaker 1: so we can understand. Okay, men all over we're saying

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Speaker 1: things to me like I don't have time. I don't

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Speaker 1: have time, but my wife has time. So yes, we

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Speaker 1: can understand for men. But the biggest problem that I

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Speaker 1: found was that women also don't value their time. So

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Speaker 1: women all over the country were saying things to me like, oh,

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Speaker 1: of course I should go get the mustard, pick up

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Speaker 1: the extra slack, pick up my kids from school because

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Speaker 1: my husband makes more money than me. Not true. Other

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Speaker 1: women were saying to me, I do this because I'm

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Speaker 1: a better multitasker. I'm wired differently, and my husband can

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Speaker 1: or my partner can only handle one thing at a time.

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Speaker 1: I went to the top neuroscientists in this country. There

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Speaker 1: is no science that has ever proven that women are

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Speaker 1: better multitaskers or are wired differently. Actually, one said to

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Speaker 1: me off the record, which I'm gonna use here, but

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Speaker 1: I can't quote him. He said to me, imagine, you

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Speaker 1: can convince half the population that they're wired better to

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Speaker 1: wipe asses and do dishes. You can convince them that

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Speaker 1: they're better at wiping asses and doing dishes. Well, guess what,

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Speaker 1: maybe we'll end up with a Forbes list that just

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Speaker 1: came out last month that has a hundred CEOs on

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Speaker 1: it and n of them are men. So no science

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Speaker 1: to prove that we're wired differently than men. Can only

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Speaker 1: focus on one task at the time. Um, and then

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Speaker 1: other women were saying to me, in the time it

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Speaker 1: takes me to tell him what to do, I might

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Speaker 1: as well do it myself. I think. I went to

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Speaker 1: which which I which I understand. But where I know

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Speaker 1: Jane and I come into run into like obstacles with

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Speaker 1: that is, well, don't hold it against me or you know,

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Speaker 1: as as speaking from almen, don't hold it against us.

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Speaker 1: If it's something that you just said, you just rather

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Speaker 1: do absolutely. And I went to the top behavioral economists

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Speaker 1: in this country. His name is Dan Arielli. He's a

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Speaker 1: best selling author. And I said to him, does that

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Speaker 1: make sense? He said, if you look in the long term,

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Speaker 1: the long term makes no sense to say that, because

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Speaker 1: that's short term thinking. Long term you actually do tell

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Speaker 1: the other person with some context how to do something

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Speaker 1: or how you want to invite them to the table,

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Speaker 1: because when it saves you hours and hours in the future,

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Speaker 1: but women weren't thinking that way. My favorite was when

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Speaker 1: women said to me, um, yeah, we're both colorectal surgeons,

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Speaker 1: we're both shipping supervisors. But my husband's busy and I

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Speaker 1: can find the time. We'll see, and that's the time thing.

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Speaker 1: Is what I kind of wanted to bring up because

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's where we have some of our

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Speaker 1: biggest struggle. Even just when we were first talking on

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Speaker 1: the podcast today, it was like, He's like, well, when

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Speaker 1: when do we have time? And in my head, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: there's there's so much time to do a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: It's about prioritizing that and it's not like and so

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Speaker 1: I think that's like where my frustration comes in as

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Speaker 1: a wife in this relationship is just like you, you

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Speaker 1: don't you can make the time for anything, correct, and

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Speaker 1: women do. But what women were saying where that they

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Speaker 1: can find time and men couldn't. So the problem is

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Speaker 1: we have to value our own time. We have to

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Speaker 1: believe society has to believe that women get as much

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Speaker 1: choice over how they use their time as men do. Men.

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Speaker 1: According to Professor Darby Saxby, Um, a psychologist out of

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Speaker 1: USC that helped me with um consulting for the book

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Speaker 1: shows that in her leisure time studies, men take twice

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Speaker 1: as much leisure time than women. Well that's also it

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Speaker 1: was Anna say too. It's not I don't know if

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Speaker 1: a like I get the leisure, but I also like

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Speaker 1: when my husband and this is no fault because he

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Speaker 1: wants to do the most research, but it's like it

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Speaker 1: takes so much longer to get to the result that

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I could have told you that thirty minutes ago,

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Speaker 1: but you're like skimming. I'm like, just so it's like

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Speaker 1: it takes a longer, like they really want to like look,

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Speaker 1: and it's funny because like he'll make fun of his

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Speaker 1: you know, dad for instructions, like, but you're doing the

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Speaker 1: exact same thing that your father is doing, and I'm

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Speaker 1: articulous and I think, but that that again, it's like,

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Speaker 1: then we're faulted just because we don't fault the way

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Speaker 1: that maybe you do it. We're not faulting you, but

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Speaker 1: we also know that there's still so much more to

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Speaker 1: do and you're taking your time longer on something when

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Speaker 1: it's like it's right in front of you. But the

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Speaker 1: truth is because back to the wiping acids and doing dishes. Um,

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Speaker 1: we we're not better at it, we're not better multitaskers,

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Speaker 1: but we have had more experience doing it for whatever reason.

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Speaker 1: Right the hundred years of whatever you want to call

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Speaker 1: the stuff that's you know, jark, whatever we're gonna call it.

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Speaker 1: I like to focus on solutions and say I'm happy

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Speaker 1: you're being thorough and taking your time to do that

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Speaker 1: as long as we're negotiating understanding what we have ownership over.

426
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 1: But the problem with women and not seeing the problem.

427
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: But I'm definitely not shaming women. I love women. This

428
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 1: fair play is my love letter to women. But what

429
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: I found again in my research was that women love

430
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 1: to give feedback in the moment, which is very unhelpful

431
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 1: in terms of, um for a long term thinking in

432
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 1: the house, So don't do it that way, or why

433
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: are you taking so long to do this or figure

434
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: it out right? Women also were saying things to me

435
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 1: like I can't sit down to have a twenty minute

436
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: conversation about the home. I don't have the time. So

437
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 1: they were almost saying that I don't want to explain

438
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: this right in the time it takes me to tell

439
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: him he should be able to figure it out. But

440
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: the problem with that is that also doesn't work too

441
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: And so what ends up happening is we don't communicate,

442
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: or we end up sobbing over blueberries, or we lock

443
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: our husbands out over glue sticks, and or women say

444
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: to me, I don't want to talk about these things.

445
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: One woman said that to me, I don't want to

446
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: talk about these things. But the funny thing is, twenty

447
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,640
Speaker 1: minutes later in our interview, she says to me, Oh,

448
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: when my husband forgets to put the boundary in the dryer,

449
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: I dump it on his pillow. Another woman literally said

450
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: to me, I don't have conversations about domestic life. But

451
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: then I found out she has an Instagram account called

452
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: the ship my Husband Doesn't pick Up. Um, I don't

453
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 1: think people would believe me. But a good news is

454
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: BuzzFeed just came out with the Japanese version. I guess

455
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: a woman in Japan started the ship my Husband Doesn't

456
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: pick Up and she has now five thousand followers. So

457
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: are we should we publicly shame our our partners? Should

458
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 1: we be dumping stuff on their pillows locking them out

459
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 1: of the house and Mike Mike made a great point

460
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: to the other day. Is like, there's certain things too

461
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: that I overlook because I don't think they're important. Correct.

462
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: So it's so I don't think, Yeah, but it's about values, right,

463
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: it's about values. But when we're communicate eating in the moment,

464
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 1: when we're when emotion is high, cognition is low. That's

465
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: what I say as a mediator, where a lot of

466
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: times we're communicating when emotion is high. So I'm asking

467
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: people to change their habits, to sit down once a

468
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: week and actually talk about things when you're calm. And

469
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: that's really what fair play is all about. It gives

470
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: you the tools to have these conversations over the home.

471
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: But then I make it fun because I give you

472
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: a card game. So I have my book here for you.

473
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: Can you give us an example of something that you

474
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,719
Speaker 1: would do to to be able for us to communicate. Okay,

475
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: so I'll give you an example. Um. When I first

476
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: started the fair Play system, I's it's based on a

477
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: hundred card card game that represents every single thing you

478
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: have to do in your home. And it started with

479
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: a foray into every other book, an article I told

480
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: you about that I read on the subject, and the

481
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: most helpful The most unhelpful were things like divorce is

482
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: the only solution to this problem or strike, but the

483
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: more helpful things that make a list. So I made

484
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: the best lit of anybody in the whole world, because

485
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: I'm an organizational management specialists. That ended up with nine

486
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: tabs and twenty subtabs of invisible work over a thousand

487
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: items of invisible work, such things like medical and healthy living,

488
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: where I had friends say you forgot sunscreen and I'd say, nope,

489
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: that's under tab number seventy two. You obviously don't know

490
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: how to use Excel. Scroll to the right. It had

491
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: things like, oh, you forgot allowance, and I say, nope,

492
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: it's under It's there under tab fifty five, under family

493
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: values and Traditions. The craziest spreadsheet you've ever seen. I

494
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: name it the Shit I Do Spreadsheet. It goes viral

495
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: amongst groups of women. Realizing at the time that's list

496
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: alone don't work. So from that I derived a card

497
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: game out of that list. Over three year period, I

498
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: tested a card game that's working, and I'll give you

499
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: an example. One of the cards is garbage. And like

500
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: I said before, it's about ownership. So I said to

501
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: my husband You're gonna be the conceiver, planner, and executor

502
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: of garbage, which means liners go back in, they go

503
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: out before trash day, the full conception planning. So I'd

504
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: never have to remind you ever again about garbage. Well,

505
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: the problem was I couldn't let go. So I was

506
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: talking him and sort of walking around the house seeing

507
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: if he was going to take out the garbage. I

508
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: would put garbage liners on top of the think. Sometimes

509
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: I would even open up the drawer, you know the

510
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: door underneath thinks, so he would fall over the door,

511
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: opened door and not see it because I wanted to

512
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: make sure he remember the garbage liners were under there.

513
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: And so we took a step back, and I said,

514
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: you know what, this is not just about handing out responsibilities.

515
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: Let me go back to my ten years of mediation

516
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: experience and ask about values. So this book fair Play

517
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: is about having a values conversation over garbage. And what

518
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: I mean by that is, I said to Seth, I

519
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: grew up in a single mom household. We didn't have

520
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: a garbage can. We had one of those plastic bags

521
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: that sat on a knob and garbage would spill out

522
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: onto the floor. Are and I was a dehydrated child

523
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: because I was afraid to go into the kitchen at

524
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: night because in the lower reastide of New York City

525
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: we have a big water bug and cockroach problem. And

526
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: when you have garbage out, you turn on that light,

527
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 1: you're gonna see hundreds of cockroaches and water bugs. So

528
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: I'm triggered by garbage. And my husband said to me, well,

529
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: I lived in fraternity and my pizza, a Domino's pizza box,

530
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: was my pillow. You know I lived. I slept on

531
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: a Domino's pizza box. I don't really care about garbage

532
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: the way you do. So what happens right when you're

533
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: at such different points. Well, then I asked you to

534
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: bring in what works for the legal system, the medical system,

535
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: a trillion dollar towards system in our country. What's reasonable?

536
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: What is your minimum standard of care? And so we

537
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: had a whole conversation where he said, I get that

538
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: you care about garbage. I want to hold the garbage card,

539
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: but what's reasonable as it goes out once a day

540
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: and you don't stalk me over it, and it'll go

541
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 1: out at seven pm, I'll put it in my calendar

542
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: like a work appointment, as long as you never mentioned

543
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: the word garbage ever again. And since then, garbage has

544
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: been going out in my household at seven pm every

545
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: single night. But it took a values conversation over garbage.

546
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: We don't communicate like that, But what if we did?

547
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: What if I had you sit down and play the game,

548
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,959
Speaker 1: and have you have got values conversations over garbage? I

549
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: promise you all learn more about your household and how

550
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: you discuss garbage, and I will for any other esoteric

551
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: relationship question I can ask you. And so when you

552
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: do that card game, is that something where okay, the

553
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: garbage card, this one represents garbage? Do does he hold

554
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: that forever? Is this something that you do? Or every

555
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: month we just do the card game again? We might

556
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: have different tasks or how does that work? Every week?

557
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: Every week? Every week? Just like your workplace, you treat

558
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: your home like your most important organization. We have feedback

559
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: everywhere else. We have clear expectations everywhere else, even my

560
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: aunt Marian's Magen group. You don't bring snack twice, you're

561
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: kicked out. We have no expectations of each other. In

562
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: the home. You play every week, you sit down for

563
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: your check in every week and as my favorite behavioral

564
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: economists back Dan ari Ellie. He says, you do it

565
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: with short term reward substitution. Do it over, Margarita's do

566
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: it over watching your favorite Netflix show where you say

567
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: we're not going to start watching together until we do

568
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: our check it. Eventually, after about a month, it becomes

569
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: a Habit takes about a month to develop a habit.

570
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: And then you get into these conversations where you say

571
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: things like, oh, I want to redeal the school forms

572
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: card this week because I'm out of town and you

573
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: can and you or you say things like I said

574
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: to my husband, a rat coming your way, can you

575
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: please pick up cash for me? But at least he

576
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: can laugh about it now, because before all I did

577
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: was give him the random assignment of a task for

578
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: every single thing. But when you bring ownership in, when

579
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: you have values conversations over things like garbage or dishes

580
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: or transporting your kids to school, see things change. And

581
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: that's what I got to see in my beta testers

582
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: all over the country. Right now, let me ask you this,

583
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: let me take it a step deeper. If okay, so

584
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: you do that right? We we distribute the cards every week,

585
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: but I I so I get a task that maybe

586
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: Janna has typically usually done in the past, but I

587
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: choose to do it differently because it's how I would

588
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: like to execute it. Well, now, what if that that

589
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: comes becomes an issue where Jana is like, why would

590
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: you put the kids clothes like this? Why would you

591
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: do it like that? Can I just intercept really fast? So, um,

592
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: we have, um a nanny that helps with their kids

593
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: and the way that she folds because I primarily do

594
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: the kids laundry nine nine percent the time, but sometimes

595
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: she'll do it. And the way that she folds my

596
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: son's t shirts drives me crazy because that's not the

597
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: way that I fold him. So I just had a conversation.

598
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, do you mind you know, not

599
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 1: folding the shirts like that? Um, I know you were

600
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: trying to reorganize it, but it just doesn't work for me.

601
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: Well I go back in and she said, oh my gosh, absolutely.

602
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: But then I go back and I love you, Kylie,

603
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: You're amazing, but like they're like that again. So I

604
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: feel like I have to have another conversation. And in

605
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: my mind, I'm like, well, I just would rather do it,

606
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: but I think it's I don't know what you were

607
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: going to say to his question. But I feel like

608
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: if I said what I said to our nanny at first,

609
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: being like, hey, just so you know, like I love

610
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: it when like, for example, I hate the way that

611
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: he folds towels that you're never going to give him

612
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: the laundry card. But guess the good news is there's

613
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: other cards in the in the system where you can

614
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: give it to him. If something is a real trigger

615
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,719
Speaker 1: for you, again, you can tell me I'm not like

616
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: emotionally triggered. It's just more of like an annoyance, you

617
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Because I'm like, I can't see

618
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: the T shirts like how and the way that he

619
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: folds the towels doesn't go in our baskets, Like but

620
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: back to your why, right, Even if you're communicating to

621
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: your nanny about that, it's when you can give the

622
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: y behind it, it's much better, Like, hey, you know,

623
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: it's hard when we have a lot of T shirts here,

624
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: and so when we fold this way, there's actually more

625
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: maximum capacity in this drawer, and so it allows our

626
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: kids to be able to see what they want to wear,

627
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: and trying to teach them to choose their own clothes.

628
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: You go back to your why when you communicate, because

629
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: if you just say I like things this way, because

630
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: that's why it doesn't work for other human beings, which

631
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: is which is what I think a lot of. For you,

632
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: it is what it's your why might be because that's

633
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: how you like things. It doesn't want to the towels

634
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: know because the way that it's folded, it doesn't fit

635
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: into the um which MCA, what's that called the linen closet.

636
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: So that's why I don't like them, because they like hangover. Right.

637
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,719
Speaker 1: But that but again, but that's a valid thing right

638
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: to say, I'd like my my closet to close, and

639
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: this is why I do things this way. Right, But

640
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: we don't have those types of conversations. But the good

641
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: news is, for example, I love what I call the

642
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: card the V I P gifts very important people gifts

643
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: like gifts I gifts to friends and into colleagues. And

644
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: so I'll probably always hold that card because I have

645
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: a certain way I love to give gifts. And but again,

646
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: it's about looking at your deck together. You build it together,

647
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: you what matters to you together. But all I'll say

648
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: to you is the more time you spend stressing over

649
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: how something is folded. The less time you have to

650
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: spend on your self care, your adult friendships, your time

651
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: to devote to your career, your time to devote to

652
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: your children, to meaningful connections with other people. And so

653
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: I do think that it's great to step back and

654
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: say what do we really value? But I know you

655
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: were talking about the the um, the trash, But so

656
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: if he wasn't doing the cards, then what's the conversation there,

657
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: because then that would be frustrating. Well, there's a trust issue, right,

658
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: This is about the presenting problem, is not the real problem.

659
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: So it's not really about the garbage. Was For me,

660
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: it was about my trust and my husband is he

661
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: going to do it? And I don't do it? You

662
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: know exactly. So women ask me that all of the time.

663
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: And this is back to my love letter to men.

664
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: I don't find that they don't do it. I find

665
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 1: that they don't bring home glue sticks because they have

666
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: no context for those requests. But when you give men

667
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: full ownership, which is how we do things in our

668
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: organizations Netflix, for example, they have something called the rare

669
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: responsible person. You don't wait to be told what to do,

670
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: but you're also given contexts not control. When you Apple

671
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: coined a term called directly responsible individual, where someone is

672
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: responsible in their workplace for the conception, to planning to

673
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: the execution. That's how our workplaces are most successful workplaces

674
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: are operating. So when you bring that context in and

675
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: the ownership, and when men understand that there is conception

676
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: and planning behind getting the mustard, things start to change,

677
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: just like they do in the workplace. And what I

678
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: find is that men don't forget when they have ownership.

679
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: They actually take pride in their cards. Back to my

680
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: love letter to men, my husband doesn't forget. He doesn't

681
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: forget now. But it takes time, It takes the check ins.

682
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: And the most important piece of feedback for women is

683
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: no feedback in the moment. So if your spouse didn't

684
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: fold the towels right, and you did give him the

685
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: laundry card, if you're gonna say, Jesus, you didn't fold

686
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: the towels right, I knew it. Nothing will change in

687
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: your habits in your home. If you wait for that

688
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: check in like you were asking me before your your

689
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: your weekly check in, and you sit down and you say,

690
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: this is what was great this week, and this is

691
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: what sort of was, you know, a little tricky for me.

692
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: Men are much more willing to hear it because when

693
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: emotion is low, cognition is high, and we can have

694
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: really constructive conversations over Margarita's as opposed to in the moment.

695
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: But I would say that was probably the hardest thing

696
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: for my beta testers, for women to say, I can

697
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: hold my feedback, but it is not constructive. It actually

698
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: was twenty pages of my book. My editor kept making

699
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: me cut it down because she said, you can't spend

700
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: twenty pages trying to convince women not to give feedback

701
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: in the moment. I'll give you five pages to make

702
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: your case. So I do it through psychology, through behavioral economix,

703
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: and through my lens, which is legal and mediation. And

704
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: that's I think that's a fantastic point for people to

705
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: take with them because I've said this to Jana numerous times,

706
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: where anytime she would make a comment after I did

707
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: something like I didn't grab this so I forgot that.

708
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: It makes me feel like she's focused on what I'm

709
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: not doing as opposed to what I am doing. Like

710
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: I've said that until us I've been blew in the

711
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: face to her. But but I just think it's a

712
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: great point, not just for women, but I think for

713
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: men to just a testament to kind of your science

714
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: behind it. Eve, is like that. I know for me,

715
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: that's how I would receive it better because I won't

716
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: go into my like I'm not doing a good job,

717
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: I'm not good enough and I can't even do this right,

718
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: and it's like what else? Now, it's really hard. It's

719
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: a really hard communication tool to learn. Um, But when

720
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: you can get it down, so I'm I'm telling people

721
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: not to eat sugar, I'm giving them the South Beach giant. Um.

722
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 1: It's a little different, right, It's it's not the way

723
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: we normally do things. But again it's also because I

724
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: don't think we treat our home with any respect. Well,

725
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm going on Amazon right now and I'm going to

726
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: order a fair Play. It's a game changing solution than

727
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: you have too much to do and more life to live. Eve,

728
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the show and

729
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: chatting with us about your amazing book. I'm excited to

730
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: read it because I think it can be even more

731
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: helpful in our communication. Even though I feel like we

732
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 1: do a great job, um, I think we could definitely

733
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: use the deck a little bit better for sure. Read

734
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: it together, Read it together. It's actually been really fun.

735
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: And the last thing I'll just say to you is

736
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: that I have over three emails just since the book

737
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: has been released ten days ago at Infohity rod Sky.

738
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: And the crazy thing about it is that it's seventy men,

739
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: seventy percent of men. And so again, this fair Play

740
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: started as my love letter to women, including dedicated to

741
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 1: my single mother who had to hold all the cards,

742
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: but it ended up as a love letter of men

743
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 1: because they're they're responding, and they want to know their role,

744
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: and they want to make their deep connections with their

745
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: children and have a place in the home, and so

746
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: I want to invite them into their full power in

747
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: the home so that women can step into a full

748
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: power in the world. That's what this is about. Absolutely,

749
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: And even where else can our listeners find you, they

750
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: can find me at Instagram at at fair Play Life amazing.

751
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: Thank you, eat so much, thank you, so much, thank you.

752
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 1: Halloween is on the way, which means it's time to

753
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: break out the rubber spiders, fake cobwebs, and jackal interns.

754
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: But if you've got a family, you might be dealing

755
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: with something a little scarier right now, shopping for life insurance. Honestly,

756
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: even talking about life insurance scares me. It's just like Halloween.

757
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,439
Speaker 1: Mike's NFL insurance just right out. So it's been kind

758
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: of a scary topic in the household talking about all

759
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: the insurance life insurance, health insurance UM and we've been

760
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: trying to compare quotes, which is exciting. It's exciting but

761
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: scary because we still feel young, and it's like, do

762
00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: we really need to talk about this, but we do.

763
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: We do, and that's why we're so happy that we

764
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: have Policy Genius. And Policy Genius is great too because

765
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: it's not just about life insurance. They also do auto

766
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: insurance and disability insurance. Policy Genius is the easy way

767
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: to shop for life insurance online in minutes, and you

768
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: can compare quotes from top insurers to find your best price.

769
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: Once you apply, the Policy Genius team will handle all

770
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: paperwork and red tape. And Policy Genius doesn't just make

771
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: life insurance easy, they can also help you find the

772
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: right home insurance UM. Like I said, auto and disability

773
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 1: this October, take the scariness out of buying life insurance

774
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 1: with policy Genius. Go to policy genius dot com get

775
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: quotes and applying minutes. You can do the whole thing

776
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: on your phone right now. Policy Genius the easy way

777
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: to compare and buy life insurance. Hey Mark, we got

778
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: an emails. Yeah, let me just summarize this. When her

779
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: name is v she's a male lady and she listens

780
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: to wind down as she walks around delivering the mail,

781
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: which is very I love that thought that she's walking

782
00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: around with her um. She has gotten separated from husband,

783
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: and the reason wasn't cheating, although he has cheated before.

784
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 1: It's because she found out he was still smoking. She

785
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: lost her father to lung cancer, and so when she

786
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: started having kids, they both agreed we are going to

787
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: stop smoking. She said, I'm never going to do that

788
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: because I feel like my father left me early because

789
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: he couldn't stop smoking. She calls him selfish, and so

790
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: the fact that my husband was still doing that it

791
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: kills me. But am I wrong for feeling this way?

792
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: I've given him so many chances, But when is it

793
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: time to say no more chances. I've been happier since

794
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 1: I've been single, but we do still live together because

795
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: I can't afford to live on my own. M hm.

796
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: So what's your question? Is she out of line for

797
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: for leaving or separating because he won't stop smoking and

798
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: was hiding the smoking from her. I think there's a

799
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: little bit of that, Um, the discovery that we've talked

800
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 1: about over the past few weeks when she discovered and

801
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: in the past she discovered him cheating. This time she

802
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: discovered he was hiding smoking. I think it's kind of

803
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: all tied together. The thing is, you know, nobody can

804
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: uh discredit or or devalue what how something affects somebody else, right,

805
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: So for this woman, for smoking, she clearly has a

806
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: definitely legitimate reason to be attached to it in the

807
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: way that she is. So for her, that's way more

808
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: impactful than it would it be for maybe the next person.

809
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: So we can't say if it's you know, crossing the

810
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 1: line or not, but if it's something that someone is

811
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: that passionate about, I don't see anything wrong with it. Yeah.

812
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you ever said that TV show with a

813
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: uh was it? Um, Jennifer Anderston, He's just not that

814
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: into you and she breaks up. She ends up breaking

815
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: up with her husband because he didn't want it. He

816
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: didn't believe in married marriage. Well he was hiding cigarettes

817
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: Andrettes No, it's the same movie, right, But he's just

818
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: nothing into you. So I I can't think of her name,

819
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: Jennifer Connelly, Jennifer conn so, but there was that movie

820
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: where you know she's hiding cigarettes. So it's I mean,

821
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 1: I would I totally get it. I mean, if you're

822
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: that triggered by something, I mean, that's I remember I

823
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: was dating someone guy just don't like drugs, and I

824
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: want to be with someone that does drugs, and I

825
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: found someone doing drugs. I called it off, you know,

826
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: because I don't want that. Everybody's got a different deal breaks.

827
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: As long as you're clear about it, then I think

828
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: you're totally justified. And I'm sorry that they didn't respect

829
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: that and that you are in that situation. That sucks.

830
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: Brianna wants another baby. They've been together with she's with

831
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: her fiance for six years. He's eleven years old. Or

832
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: They have a four year old daughter, and he has

833
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: a couple of sons from previous relationship. She wants more kids.

834
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: He doesn't, and that's she thinks that's unfair that he's

835
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: denying her The many kids that she wants to have.

836
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: It's put a huge damper on their sex life. She

837
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: doesn't want to have sex with him anymore. She feels

838
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: like her body is different and she could literally go

839
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: the rest of her life without it. But since I

840
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: want to have sex with him and he or he

841
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: sees that, I'm just not enjoying it. He accused me

842
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: of cheating, which I would never do. I love him,

843
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: but not having another baby's a really big deal to me,

844
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: and I don't know how to get over that. I

845
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: think it's one of those things if if it's that

846
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 1: much of a deal breaker, you have to you don't

847
00:42:58,400 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 1: want to resent him for the rest of your life.

848
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: So if you feel like you're going to resent him

849
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life and withhold certain things

850
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: because that's what you want, then that's not healthy for

851
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: either one of you. And if you my opinion, I'm like,

852
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: if I really want another baby and that's something that

853
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: I just couldn't get over, well, then that would be

854
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 1: something that I would have to decide whether or not

855
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: I would want to lose the marriage or not. Yeah,

856
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 1: And also on the other side of it, you can't

857
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if we could fully blame him because

858
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: we don't know what kind of conversations they had around

859
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: kids or family going into their marriage, into their relationship.

860
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: You know, maybe he told her it's like and she

861
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: expected him to change, but he didn't. So I mean,

862
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: it's kind of the same thing my brother was semi

863
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,320
Speaker 1: going through. Don't want to get into all of his stuff,

864
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: but it's same thing where it's like, you know, he

865
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: has a vasectomy and his girlfriend, who we all love,

866
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: wants a baby, and I get why she would break

867
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: up with him because she wants a kid. And I'm like, well,

868
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: and you know, my brother was so distraught, so depressed,

869
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: and I'm like, but Steve, you don't want another kid.

870
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: I can't blame her for leaving you. And I'm like,

871
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: I love you, but like, I can't, I can't blame her.

872
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: Who can blame her? She wants to have children. You

873
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,760
Speaker 1: already have two grown ones and you don't want anymore.

874
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: I'm getting into it clearly, Sorry, Steve, but I just

875
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: think to like to the point it's like, so I

876
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 1: told my brother, I go, if you're willing to lose her,

877
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: how much do you love her? Like would you you know,

878
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: do you love her enough? To give her a child

879
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 1: that you necessarily He's like, I know I love the

880
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: kid once I had it. I just don't know if

881
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: I want another kid. But it's like, but what are

882
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: you willing to lose? They had to do some compromising.

883
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: I understand that, but like still, it's to that point

884
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: where it's like, what are you willing if you're If

885
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: they're willing to lose the other person, that says a

886
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: lot about their feeling because I wouldn't, yeah, because I'm like,

887
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: if I really love someone, I might do something because

888
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: I love them so much. So it's interesting topic. Um,

889
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: all right, we have to go to a fall festival,

890
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: so I love you guys. Thanks Gussie. Next week