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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, movie star Alec Baldwin one

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Speaker 1: step closer to a jury trial on homicide. Baldwin's rage

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Speaker 1: fits and uncontrollable anger on set coming back to bite

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Speaker 1: him in the neck as his rust movie co defendant

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Speaker 1: found guilty for the onset shooting death of wife and

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Speaker 1: mother cinematographer Helena Hutchins. Next up, Alec Baldwin. I'm Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: You find the defendant and Teers is guilty of the

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Speaker 3: voluntary mansliter as Tarsi and can one.

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Speaker 1: Putambrey msstraction content co defendant the Armorer just found guilty

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Speaker 1: in a court of law. The armorer charged along with

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Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin. Is he this close to a jury trial

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Speaker 1: on homicide? Joining me an all star panel and makes

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Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now? Marine Callahan First up,

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Speaker 1: columnist Dailymail dot Com, Maureene, thank.

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Speaker 4: You for being with us. What happened?

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Speaker 5: What happened? Is You're correct? Alec Baldwin is one step closer.

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Speaker 4: He is next up?

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Speaker 5: And if what happened to this armorer is any indication

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Speaker 5: of what is about to happen to Alec Baldwin, things

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Speaker 5: do not look good for him. I would argue that,

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Speaker 5: aside from the complete lack of safety protocols that were

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Speaker 5: left just completely neglected on this set.

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Speaker 4: You know, you have this armorer who's arguing.

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Speaker 5: I was young, in naive, I was in over my

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Speaker 5: head and don't take the job where your main responsibility

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Speaker 5: is to keep the cast and crew safe from life

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Speaker 5: and limb being destroyed. What I think is the connective

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Speaker 5: tissue between Hanna Gutier's read and Alec Baldwin is, as

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Speaker 5: the judge said in Hannah Sentencing, an utter lack of remorse,

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Speaker 5: an utter lack of taking any accountability, and as we

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Speaker 5: have seen since this tragic incident, Alec Baldwin, for moment

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Speaker 5: one has expressed sympathy for only himself.

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Speaker 1: Along with his wife, who keeps posting shots of herself

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Speaker 1: and skin tight leggings and stiletto heels walking around New

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Speaker 1: York and very callously posting happy moments of them with

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Speaker 1: their family. As the family of Helena Hutchins goes without

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Speaker 1: a wife and mom. Guys, it didn't help anything when

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Speaker 1: the co defendant the armorer.

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Speaker 4: An armorer is the person.

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Speaker 1: On the set that's in charge of all of the

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Speaker 1: amo and the guns and the weapons and agoutietas read

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Speaker 1: actually is calling the Gurrrs idiot a holes, idiots and

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Speaker 1: a holes. Okay, that's not gonna help anything. Del Carson,

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Speaker 1: high profile lawyer, former FBI agent, joining us out of

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville's author of Arrest Proof Yourself.

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Speaker 4: He's at del Carson Law dot com.

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Speaker 1: Dell, have your clients still not figured out their calls

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Speaker 1: are being recorded? You know, when you've got somebody two

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Speaker 1: or three days before sentencing and they're going the.

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Speaker 4: Jeryson a hole, the jerseysan bunch of idiots.

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Speaker 6: Really, it's a real problem. And no matter how many

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Speaker 6: times you tell your clients that they're recording the phone calls,

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Speaker 6: it really doesn't have a significant effect on their conversations

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Speaker 6: on telephones to their friends, because they're talking to people

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Speaker 6: that they purportedly or have positive relationships with. And of

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Speaker 6: course she's probably right. They did convict her, although they

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Speaker 6: did find her not guilty of the cocaine charge, which

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Speaker 6: is kind of a gift.

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Speaker 4: Did you just say Gutierrez is kind of right?

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Speaker 1: Is that what you said? She's probably kind of right.

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Speaker 1: What she called the jars a holes.

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Speaker 6: From her perspective. They convicted her, right, they're not friends

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Speaker 6: of hers obviously.

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Speaker 4: Is she just telling her truth?

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Speaker 1: In other words, of course history rewritten the way she.

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Speaker 4: Wants it to be.

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Speaker 6: Well, they convicted her, and you got to know that

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Speaker 6: that doesn't make her feel good. So since she's full

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Speaker 6: of herself, I don't care.

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Speaker 4: How she feels. Are you crazy? What I just are

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Speaker 4: you okay? Number one? Are you in the middle of like? Maybe? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So you're agreeing with the woman that a jury has

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Speaker 1: found guilty in a homicide charge where a shooting death

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Speaker 1: occurred at the workplace of a young wife slash mother,

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Speaker 1: incredible cinematographer. You're okay with her calling the jurors a

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Speaker 1: holes and idiots.

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Speaker 6: I'm a defensive attorney, Nancy, of course, I'm okay with that.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know what's interesting.

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Speaker 1: A snake crawls on its belly and it thinks it's

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Speaker 1: a king, Okay, but it's not.

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Speaker 4: It's a snake. So blurting out I'm a defense attorney

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Speaker 4: doesn't make it okay. You know what, I'm gonna let.

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Speaker 1: You think about what you've done for a few moments.

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Speaker 1: I'm putting you in the corner your official time out, guys,

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Speaker 1: in case any of you have forgotten what this is about.

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Speaker 1: All right, we're joking around. Helena Hutchins is dead. She

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Speaker 1: has a little boy and a husband. The little boy

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Speaker 1: no mommy, no mommy. That's never gonna change for him.

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Speaker 1: There may be a step mother someday, there may be

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Speaker 1: a daddy's girlfriend, but there is no such thing as

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Speaker 1: a new mother. Take a listen to this nine one

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Speaker 1: one call.

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Speaker 7: The Nanza Creek Grant had two people accidentally shot on

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Speaker 7: a movie set by a prop done. We need help immediately,

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Speaker 7: the Nanza Creek Grant. Come on, stay almost phone with me.

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Speaker 7: We're going to get some help. Okay, okay, what is

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Speaker 7: your name?

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Speaker 3: Don't hang up?

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Speaker 7: Okay, hold on just one second. It sounds like somebody

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Speaker 7: else is calling for better miss.

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Speaker 8: It's good.

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Speaker 7: Everybody should be. We need some help of director in

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Speaker 7: our cameraman camera woman has been shot. Are they going

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Speaker 7: to take him to the road?

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Speaker 9: So?

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Speaker 5: Was it loaded with a real bullet or one?

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Speaker 7: I don't I cannot tell you that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, gosh, they're a pretty calm, a very calm demeanor

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Speaker 1: when two people had been shot. Marie Callahan special guests

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Speaker 1: joining us calumnists for dailymail dot Com. I think is

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Speaker 1: the biggest online news outlet in the world.

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Speaker 4: Not sure about that. I'm sure all the other outlets

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Speaker 4: would argue with.

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Speaker 1: That, Marie Callahan. Two people were shot. Who's the other one?

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Speaker 1: I know, Helena Hutchins, a cinematographer. And who's the other one?

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Speaker 1: Shot by Alec Baldwin? Although we keep saying he didn't

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Speaker 1: pull the trigger? Okay, I hope he tells that to

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Speaker 1: the jury. Who's the other victim?

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Speaker 5: It was Joel Souza, who was on the set as well,

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Speaker 5: and who testified in this case that he felt that

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Speaker 5: he had been struck by a baseball bat and that

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Speaker 5: the moment the shooting happened, Hannah Gutierrez read the armorer

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Speaker 5: in question was standing over him and saying I'm sorry,

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Speaker 5: I'm sorry, which is maybe the first and only time

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Speaker 5: we have heard anything approaching culpability or.

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Speaker 4: Remorse out of this young woman. I would also say.

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Speaker 5: To your earlier point about her being recorded on prison

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Speaker 5: calls referring to the jurors as idiots, a holes, and worse,

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Speaker 5: saying that the judge was on the take and quote

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Speaker 5: on a power trip. Just it goes to the level

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Speaker 5: of intelligence here. You know, one would think if you're

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Speaker 5: on trial for your life, she will never work in

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Speaker 5: this industry again. She will never hold a job of

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Speaker 5: any real import again.

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Speaker 1: Mariene Callahan, you know that's an old phrase that's thrown around.

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Speaker 4: You'll never work in this town again.

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Speaker 1: I actually had that said to me by the head

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Speaker 1: of a network once. By the way, I still did

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Speaker 1: what I really do anyway. Oh yeah, but that's the

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Speaker 1: story for another day. Right now, I'm on Alec Baldwin.

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Speaker 1: You said that, and hey, like, she's not going to

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Speaker 1: be an armorer again.

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Speaker 4: Who cares.

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Speaker 1: I'd be worried about not going to jail with all

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Speaker 1: the killers and the child molesters.

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Speaker 4: And the dope dealers. But that's just me.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't worry too much about my career as a

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Speaker 1: movie armorer at this moment. But you said her calling

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Speaker 1: the gr rs idiots and a holes? You said and worse?

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Speaker 1: What was worse than that, other than saying the judge

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Speaker 1: is on the take? That's huge.

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Speaker 5: Well, I would never use this word in most play

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Speaker 5: people don't use this word anymore. But she used the

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Speaker 5: R word in referring to the jurors lack of intelligence.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's all just emblematic of a set. I

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Speaker 5: believe that from the top down. And by that I

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Speaker 5: mean by Arian Callahan.

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Speaker 4: I have huge respect for you. But what did she say?

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Speaker 4: She called the jurors recharge? Is that what you're saying?

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Speaker 4: You did? She did? She did?

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Speaker 1: You know? It just never ends with this one, does it?

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Speaker 1: Her and Alec Baldwin.

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Speaker 4: You know what?

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Speaker 1: That brings me to another point why their trials were

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Speaker 1: severed to start with, because I put those two in

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Speaker 1: the same pot and let them stew together.

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Speaker 4: But take a listen to this nine on one call.

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Speaker 7: We have two injuries from a movie done shock, Okay,

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Speaker 7: we're getting them out there already to stay on my phone,

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Speaker 7: wasn't me?

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Speaker 10: Okay?

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Speaker 9: That yelled at me.

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Speaker 7: At lunch because asking about revisions?

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Speaker 4: Did you see and yell at.

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Speaker 7: Me he's for subjected guns, she's responsible for ALMMI no, no, no,

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Speaker 7: I'm a script. Super people were injured, true that I

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Speaker 7: know of. I was hearing. We were rehearsing and it

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Speaker 7: went off and I ran out. We all ran out.

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Speaker 4: Crime stories, with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Joining me in addition to Del Carson and special guest

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Speaker 1: Marine Callahan is a renowned forensic pathologist, medical examiner, Lucky

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Speaker 1: for me, former detective. She literally wrote the book Homicide Investigation,

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Speaker 1: Field Guide, new book, Money, Mischief and Murder, the Murdoch's saga.

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Speaker 1: You may need a volume two on that one, Doctor dupree,

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Speaker 1: Doctor dupree. You hear the nine one one caller state

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Speaker 1: that one of the thevictims is bleeding. She wasn't just bleeding,

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Speaker 1: she bled out, she died. How quickly can a human examinate?

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Speaker 3: Financie? Of course, as you know, it depends on where

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Speaker 3: the person is shot. It can take a very short

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Speaker 3: period of time, where it can take several minutes. It

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Speaker 3: all depends on the organs and the injury itself.

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Speaker 1: Warning to everybody, Warning to the prosecutor, the judge of the.

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Speaker 4: Future, your ours.

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Speaker 1: The defense has threatened to call out the big guns

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Speaker 1: in this case, threatening to bring on Helen Mirren and

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Speaker 1: Harrison Ford as defense witnesses. I'm pretty sure, Marie Callahan,

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Speaker 1: that Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren, to icons in the

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Speaker 1: movie industry, were not on the set that day.

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Speaker 4: Would you agree with that?

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Speaker 5: I think that's a safe assumption to make, Nancy. I mean,

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Speaker 5: I'm sure both of them would love to be excluded

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Speaker 5: from this narrative.

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Speaker 4: I mean again, this.

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Speaker 5: Just shows you the level of delusion and entitlement and

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Speaker 5: how long someone like Alec Baldwin has been in his bubble.

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Speaker 5: He thinks by hauling in a couple of aging A

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Speaker 5: listers who had nothing to do with this tragedy, that

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Speaker 5: somehow the jury will be impressed, that somehow the jury

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Speaker 5: will think that this guy again, who has shown zero remorse, who,

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Speaker 5: as you said, he and his wife posting happy family

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Speaker 5: photos within days of Helena Hutchinson's Holy preventable death, saying

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Speaker 5: that it was intense parenting through this difficult time when

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Speaker 5: Helena's little boy was unable to speak for two days

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Speaker 5: after this death. You think this guy's remotely sympathetic. You

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Speaker 5: think Helena Hutchins's armorer was like, had a remote shot

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Speaker 5: at getting a sympathetic jury Like Alec Baldwin. I hope

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Speaker 5: his defense attorneys are able to knock some sense into him,

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Speaker 5: because she's going to prison, not jail, the judge said,

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Speaker 5: because of her lack of remorse, because of her attempts

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Speaker 5: to blame everybody else. And if you want another just

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Speaker 5: look at the level of her delusion. This girl tried

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Speaker 5: to get Helena's family members to testify for her in court.

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Speaker 1: Helena Hutchins dies on the set of Alec Baldwin's new

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Speaker 1: movie Rust the Armorer, that's what they call them. Joining

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Speaker 1: me Johannis chum Waino film and TV safety Expert CEO

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Speaker 1: of Star Network and you can find him at Vipstar

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Speaker 1: Networking dot com Johannas they did everything.

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Speaker 4: Wrong the Armorer did.

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Speaker 1: And when Alec Baldwin actually says he didn't pull the trigger,

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Speaker 1: that's complete BS technical legal term, because he did pull

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Speaker 1: the trigger and ballistic texts were conducted to prove he

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Speaker 1: pulled the trigger. So before I get back on Gucciirez

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Speaker 1: calling the saying the judges on the take and asking

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Speaker 1: the victims family to testify.

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Speaker 4: For her in court, there's just so much wrong she did.

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Speaker 1: In court, that's right, but what went wrong on the set,

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Speaker 1: mister Chimuyno.

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Speaker 11: Pre Planning and Nancy, this is a case that underscores

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Speaker 11: the significance from a health and safety standpoint. This case

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Speaker 11: in itself will change, will allow a catalyst to change

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Speaker 11: within the industry in terms of pre planning, health and

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Speaker 11: safety protocols, stringent requirements for training as well as most

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Speaker 11: importantly the hiring, the workforce development. Everything on set should

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Speaker 11: have never even got to a stage where there was

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Speaker 11: potentially live ammunition in a dummy gun Nazi and so

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Speaker 11: this is the importance of this. Will we'll have detriments

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Speaker 11: into the future. It will be really interesting to follow

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Speaker 11: the case for the next five to ten years.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you know what Johanna is Chimuayno film and TV

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Speaker 1: safety expert just said everything accurately. But when I I

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Speaker 1: think about the next five, ten, fifteen years, all I

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Speaker 1: think about is Helena Hutchins boy growing up and having

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Speaker 1: one Christmas after the next without mom, one Birthday after

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Speaker 1: the next, without Mom going to her grave putting flowers there.

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Speaker 1: As you heard Marine Callahan speak earlier from dailymail dot com,

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Speaker 1: the little boy.

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Speaker 4: Didn't utter one word for two.

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Speaker 1: Days after he found out his mother had been shot

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Speaker 1: dead at work by Alec Baldwin. Guys, many people have

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Speaker 1: heard the nine on one calls made that day, but

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Speaker 1: very few have heard the police bodycam footage where the

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Speaker 1: rust armorer Hannah Gaterez is taken with a cop around

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Speaker 1: the set and she tries desperately to collect rounds and

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Speaker 1: rounds of ammunition.

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Speaker 4: Listen, I need to.

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Speaker 6: Know where the goods are right now, Marmer, I need

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Speaker 6: to correct.

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Speaker 4: Why do I know this is a gun? That's a gun?

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Speaker 6: Okay? Where is that at?

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Speaker 4: Do you have those crowns they gave you?

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Speaker 1: Did you hear that she can't find the ammo? They

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Speaker 1: don't know which gun is which?

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Speaker 4: Wow?

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Speaker 1: Okay, back to Marine Callahan joining us from dailymail dot com.

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Speaker 4: What about the thresta Hey, hey, Jackie, give.

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Speaker 1: Me some soap and a washcloth right now, because I'm

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Speaker 1: going straight to Marine Callahan's set and washing her mouth

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Speaker 1: out with soap. To refer to Harrison Ford and Helen

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Speaker 1: Mirren as aging a listers.

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Speaker 4: Okay, girl, you got a nerve.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna try to ignore that for right now

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Speaker 1: to just get yes. But their popularity is not my

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Speaker 1: problem right now, because they're icons, they're legends, they're still

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Speaker 1: starring on the screen, they're rolling in money.

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Speaker 4: Harrison Ford has a wife that's like thirty years younger

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Speaker 4: than him.

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Speaker 1: He's flying around in planes and you called him an

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Speaker 1: aging a lister.

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Speaker 4: You know what? I would not want to look up

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Speaker 4: and see Indiana Jones coming after me. I don't care

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Speaker 4: how old he is with that whip, forget it. That said,

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Speaker 4: their threat is they're gonna call in Helen Mirren and

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Speaker 4: Harrison Ford.

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Speaker 1: To save what Okay, I'm leading up to a legal

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Speaker 1: point where and tell him, once you bring in character

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Speaker 1: evidence in a trial, such as Harrison Ford, if he

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Speaker 1: would do it, say yeah, he Bowin's a great guy.

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Speaker 4: That's called opening the door under the law.

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Speaker 1: And I would wait on the edge of my seat

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Speaker 1: every trial hoping the defendant would bring in his or

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Speaker 1: her good character. Why under our constitution, the state's not

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Speaker 1: allowed to say, yeah, he's got an arrest for this.

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Speaker 1: He a taculating in a parking lot. He attacked this person.

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Speaker 1: He blessed out that you can't do that. You cannot

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Speaker 1: try a defendant on their reputation unless and until they

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Speaker 1: open the door.

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Speaker 4: Then the state takes out it's very, very huge.

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Speaker 1: File like this one and starts going through all of

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Speaker 1: the convictions and the prior bad acts. So I pray

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Speaker 1: that they bring on Ford and Mirror because once they do,

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Speaker 1: all of the bloviators bs over the years is coming

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Speaker 1: right into the courtroom like that Easter parade Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is such a restraint.

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Speaker 4: Does what history is.

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Speaker 6: The obvious right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the public.

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Speaker 5: Rage monster we have long known and been too terribly

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Speaker 5: acquainted with. Okay, Alec Baldwin, who has punched numerous members

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Speaker 5: of the paparazzi, who fairly recently got into like slugging

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Speaker 5: somebody over street parking in New York City, who called

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Speaker 5: like a Starbucks barista, like a queen who you know,

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Speaker 5: left that unforgettable voicemail message for his then like twelve

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Speaker 5: year old daughter calling her a thoughtless little pig. Things

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Speaker 5: thrown around on Broadway backstage like the So the top

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Speaker 5: part of this indictment for Baldwin states that he had

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Speaker 5: quote no emotional control, no control of his emotions on

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Speaker 5: this set, to which the members of the general public,

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Speaker 5: I guarantee you any jury pool would say, no surprise there.

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Speaker 5: This guy is full of rage. And again I think

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Speaker 5: it was a top down kind of things. Was his set.

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Speaker 5: He was a producer, he was the star. He allowed

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Speaker 5: and like a completely inexperienced, gutless, naive, lazy, indolent kid

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Speaker 5: to be in charge of ammunition on a set that

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Speaker 5: the day or two before now, the morning of Helena

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Speaker 5: Hutchins's fatal shooting. A good number of that crew walked

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Speaker 5: off the set because they were sounding the alarm for

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Speaker 5: days with the production.

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Speaker 4: Take a listen.

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Speaker 8: In recorded jailhouse phone calls, Hannah Gutier is Read lashes

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Speaker 8: out of the jury after she is convicted on manslaughter charges,

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Speaker 8: but before she is sentenced, Hannah Gutiers Read blasts the

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Speaker 8: jurors that convicted her, calling them idiots and a holes.

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Speaker 8: These jailhouse phone call recordings are brought out by the

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Speaker 8: prosecution just in time for sentencing. The defense has worked

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Speaker 8: hard to present Gutier has read in a softer, more

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Speaker 8: genteel manner, but prosecutors say that jail house recordings show

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Speaker 8: how she really is. Outside of court, Gutiers Read wants

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Speaker 8: Alec Baldwin to go to jail two and says she

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Speaker 8: won't testify it as upcoming trial if saphenad.

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Speaker 4: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 8: In recorded jail house phone calls, Hannah Gutier is Read

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Speaker 8: lashes out of the jury after she is convicted on

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Speaker 8: manslaughter charges, but before she is sentenced. Hannah Gutier is

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Speaker 8: Read blasts the jurors that convicted her, calling them idiots

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Speaker 8: and a holes. These jail house phone call recordings are

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Speaker 8: brought out by the prosecution just in time for sentencing.

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Speaker 8: The defense has worked hard to present gutiers Read in

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Speaker 8: a softer, more genteel manner, but prosecutors say that jail

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Speaker 8: house recordings show how she really is. Outside of court.

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Speaker 8: Gutier Is Read wants Alec Baldwin to go to jail too,

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Speaker 8: and says she won't testify it as upcoming trial if

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Speaker 8: subpoena Wow.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so how are you going to get out of

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Speaker 1: that when you're subpoenaed? And what do you just stick

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Speaker 1: your bottom lip out? So far you could plan a

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Speaker 1: row of turnips on it and refuse to testify.

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Speaker 4: Okay, that's not going to work.

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Speaker 1: But that said, did she do that, Marie Callahan dealingmail

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 4: Did she threaten not to testify?

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Speaker 5: I called That's what I've read that she's But she

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Speaker 5: also complained that Alec Baldwin had not been subpoenaed in

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Speaker 5: her case. So again you're dealing with a level of

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Speaker 5: not just emotional and psychological immaturity, but intellectual deficit and

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Speaker 5: the idea that this young woman was placed in charge

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Speaker 5: of ammunition and weaponry on this set just beggars belief.

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Speaker 4: She got what was coming to her.

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Speaker 5: She probably would have gotten a lesser sentence again had

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Speaker 5: she displayed one iota of genuine remorse. But the only

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Speaker 5: tears she shed We're at the end of this trial

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Speaker 5: for herself. And this is why I believe this trial

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Speaker 5: is a giant foreshadowing of what we are about to

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Speaker 5: see with Alec Baldwin standing trial on a much larger

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Speaker 5: scale before a much larger audience in July.

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Speaker 1: Well, this woman, Hannah guteraz Read would certainly not be

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Speaker 1: the first for jail house conversations coming back to buy

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Speaker 1: you in the net. We just saw the sentencing and

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Speaker 1: the parents of Ethan Cromley, the school shooter, and then

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Speaker 1: we find out behind bars Cromley's dad threatened to take

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Speaker 1: a hit out on the lady prosecutor.

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Speaker 4: Listen.

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Speaker 11: Rarely do we see a defended threatening and the prosecutor,

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Speaker 11: let alone a member of a triality team, let alone

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Speaker 11: the elected official.

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Speaker 4: There will be retribution.

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Speaker 11: She's going to be sucking on a hot rock down

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Speaker 11: at how soon? I'm I'm dyart, Yes, Karen McDonald is

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Speaker 11: going down any better?

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Speaker 6: I didn't want to be that judge.

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Speaker 1: That was just a few weeks.

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Speaker 6: Before the trial. I don't know any other definition with

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Speaker 6: dactor being other than a specific threat me to a

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Speaker 6: member of the trial team.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's what jailhouse banter, let me say, gets

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Speaker 1: you at senacing. And here Hannah Gatea is Reid calling

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Speaker 1: the jurors a holes and idiots and saying the judge

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Speaker 1: is on the take out.

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Speaker 4: Joining you right now.

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Speaker 1: Another special guest, in addition to Marine Callahan, Johannes Chimwaino,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Dupree and Del Carson, Paul Zeike is joining us.

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Speaker 1: Former police commander also with the Screen Actors Guild experience

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Speaker 1: using firearms with blanks during live action movie scenes such

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Speaker 1: as Terminator, author of Stop Him From Killing Them on Amazon.

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Speaker 4: That's a lot.

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Speaker 1: But before I continue with your CV, let me ask you.

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Speaker 4: What went wrong on the set.

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Speaker 1: And Alec Baldwin is now up against it because he

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Speaker 1: openly stated he did not.

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Speaker 4: Pull the trigger.

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Speaker 1: Now, when that is disproved at trial, which it will be,

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Speaker 1: he's going to be stuck with his lie. Explained to

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Speaker 1: me how it was proven with the gun in question,

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Speaker 1: the homicide gun, that somebody had to pull the trigger.

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Speaker 9: Well, the FBI did a series of testing on that

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Speaker 9: weapon and it was determined that there is no way

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Speaker 9: for that weapon to fire unless the trigger is actually pulled.

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Speaker 10: It's just that simple. And there's no way for a

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Speaker 10: projectile to strike somebody that you're not aiming weapon at them.

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Speaker 10: In both cases that occurred, the environment has to be

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Speaker 10: there can be no live ammunition anywhere to be seen.

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Speaker 10: That was also breached. There was a cataclysmic failure at

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Speaker 10: multiple points that synergistically created this perfect storm and unfortunately

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Speaker 10: results in absolute horrific incident that we just can't go

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Speaker 10: back and fix. However, moving forward, we should stop utilizing

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Speaker 10: deadly weapons as prop guns. This was not a prop gun.

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Speaker 10: It's a functioning firearm being used as a prop and

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Speaker 10: at the end of the day, that is a contributory

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Speaker 10: factor and what caused this?

441
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: Is it true, Marie Callahan, you said earlier Marine joining

442
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: us from dailymail dot com. She actually asked Helena Hutchin's family.

443
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 4: To come on and testify for her.

444
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: Yes.

445
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 5: Yes, which again goes to the level of entitlement, of

446
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 5: complete lack of culpability accountability.

447
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 6: That she took.

448
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 5: She said to the judge before her sentencing. You know,

449
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 5: this doesn't make me a monster. I made a mistake.

450
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 5: It just makes me a human being, you know. And

451
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 5: it sort of springs from this ethos of like gen

452
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 5: Zers that any mistake, even one that results in the

453
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,479
Speaker 5: end of a life, is just something that kind of

454
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 5: goes into the bank of your own lived experiences that

455
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 5: will hopefully make you better going forward. I mean, this

456
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 5: is everything that like resulted in her getting eighteen months

457
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 5: in prison, not jail, and one would hope she would

458
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 5: emerge from this a little bit humbled, a little bit better.

459
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: I doubt it, and joining me high profile lawyer or

460
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: former fed with the FBI Dale Carson Dale. This should

461
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: be a blueprint for Alec Baldwin. But I'm pretty sure

462
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: you know, when you don't know a horse. Look at

463
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: his track record. He's never listened to a darn thing

464
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: anybody's ever told him. Uh So I doubt he's going

465
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: to listen now. But the trial of Hannah Gaatea's read

466
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: the Armorer on the rest set should be a blueprint

467
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 1: for warning to him, because what.

468
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 4: She did was this blaming each other.

469
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: That's why I like tri co defenits together because that

470
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: jury gets to sit there and watch them all at

471
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: the same table blaming each other.

472
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 4: She blamed Baldwin.

473
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: When Baldwin goes to trial, he's gonna blame her. It

474
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: didn't work for good Taras Reid. Do you think it'll

475
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: work for Baldwin?

476
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 6: Well, of course, that's why you call a listers who've

477
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 6: been involved in firearms and the use of armors to

478
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 6: argue that you have a right to rely on what

479
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 6: they've done. But I will say this, the person responsible

480
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 6: for the death here and the use.

481
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 4: Of a firearm is Baldwin.

482
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 6: This armor, of course facilitated that, but the real guilt

483
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 6: has to be put on the person who actually killed

484
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 6: the individual. Firearms are inherently dangerous. I've been in a

485
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 6: number of shootings I've seen the results of this. Their

486
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 6: arms are dangerous, and your other guest is absolutely correct.

487
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 6: To have a functioning firearm on set with actual live

488
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 6: rounds is outrageous. No one in their right mind would

489
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 6: do that, even the FBI when it uses prop guns,

490
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 6: they're drilled so that they can't fire a projectile even

491
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 6: if someone mistakenly puts something in a chamber, and to

492
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 6: not do that is insane. But it speaks to the

493
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 6: use of firearms and movies and on scenes directly, and

494
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 6: it tells us that gut and guns are safe. I

495
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 6: can tell you I've carried a gun since I was

496
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 6: twenty two in a police situation all my life. They're dangerous.

497
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 6: I don't like them. I hide them. I put them

498
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 6: in a safe when I'm not using them.

499
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: All of that second verse same as the first. If

500
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: I had you on trial, I would object from being

501
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: unresponsive to the question. The question was not about you,

502
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: young rookie cop at age twenty two.

503
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 4: Carrying a weapon.

504
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: The question was about the theory of defense at trial?

505
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: Will Alec Baldwin blame the armorer like the armorer blamed

506
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: Alec Bowen because it didn't work out very well for her?

507
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 6: Of course he will.

508
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 4: And will it work? Will it work because I say

509
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 4: it won't work?

510
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 6: Oh, I say it won't work because he's responsible for

511
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 6: the firearm pointed at a person that he killed.

512
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 5: Man.

513
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 4: I'm a JD, not a DDS. I don't have a

514
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 4: pull of tooth, but I will try. Let me go

515
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 4: to JOHANNS.

516
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: Chimueno joining us filming TV safety expert at Vipstar network

517
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: dot Com. Johanns right or wrong. Baldwin has claimed, and

518
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: this is going to come back to haunt him, that

519
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: he didn't pull the trigger. He pulled the trigger.

520
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 11: Wrong, Nancy, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, It's all wrong, And

521
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 11: I think I think the idea is is that going

522
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 11: into the case, Miss Hannah Gutier's Read is now the scapegoat.

523
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 11: Would you agree, Nancy, They've already convicted her, and to

524
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 11: now convict Alec Baldwin on the same crime, the same

525
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 11: case is going to be challenged, and so rather right

526
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 11: or wrong to the idea is that the judge has

527
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 11: already ruled in Hannegutier Read's case, she is now the scapegoat.

528
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 11: Health and safety standards will continue to be improved alongside

529
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 11: the catastrophic traffic tragic incident rather that has occurred between

530
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 11: the family and Helena Hutcheson. Really from a comprehensive health

531
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 11: and safety standpoint, we can now look at this case

532
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 11: and say, how do we improve how do we move

533
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 11: forward in a way that's consistent with the situation that

534
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 11: again that the family Helena Hutchison is facing, and so

535
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 11: unfortunately gonna agree that Hannahgutier Reads is now the scapegoat

536
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 11: in the case with me.

537
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: Johanna's Chimwayno, who's a film and TV safety expert. I'm

538
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: trying to That was a mouthful number one put this

539
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: down because I could not keep up with everything you

540
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: were saying.

541
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 4: But to put it in a nutshell.

542
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: I think what you said is they are Bowen's team

543
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: is going to blame Gutara's read and it may very

544
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: well work because she's already been convicted and they can say, look,

545
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: she's been.

546
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 4: Convicted and jury said, so she's the problem. Okay, got it.

547
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: I think I heard somebody jumping in. Was that marine

548
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: or doctor Dupree? It's doctor Dupree, Nancy.

549
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 3: I think that you know, this is absolutely tragic and

550
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 3: absolutely Alex Baldwin bears some responsibility. But I also think

551
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 3: that we have to put the majority of the blame

552
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 3: or responsibility on Hannah. It was her job. Expect what

553
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 3: would we expect Alex to do? You know, obviously, anyone

554
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 3: handling a gun needs to make sure that it is safe.

555
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 3: But if you open that cylinder and you look at

556
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: the cartridges in there, I don't think you can tell

557
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 3: the difference from a live round and a black ground

558
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 3: unless you take the bullets out of the chamber, and

559
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 3: is that what we expect him to do? Maybe it is.

560
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 3: I don't know the answer to that. But the problem

561
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 3: is the headstamp may be different, which is the stamp

562
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 3: on the back of the bullet or the base of

563
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 3: the bullet where the firing pin strikes it. That may

564
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: be different from a live round and a blank round.

565
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 3: I don't know. But what Alex know that. I don't

566
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 3: know that either. But the only way to really tell

567
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 3: whether that was a live round or a blank round

568
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 3: is to take the bullets out of the gun and

569
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 3: look at the nose of the bullet and see if

570
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 3: that is or not. But he was the one that

571
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: handled it. He is the one that fired the shot.

572
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 3: He absolutely bears some responsibility also, and I think that

573
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 3: he may be bringing in the other actresses and actors

574
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 3: to state how it is normally handled. Does an actor

575
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 3: every time they're handled a fire gun, do they always

576
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: look take the bullets out and look at the bullets?

577
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 4: Do they do that or do they assume right or wrong?

578
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: Do they assume that the one handed to them that

579
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 3: said it saithe is set take a listen.

580
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 8: Ever since the shooting, death of Helena Hutchins on the

581
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 8: set of Rust. Alec Baldwin has claimed he did not

582
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 8: pull the trigger, even after an FBI report contradicting Baldwin's

583
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 8: account of the shooting, saying the trigger had to have

584
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 8: been pulled for the gun to fire. Baldwin says he

585
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 8: didn't pull the trigger. The FBI report says their testing

586
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 8: proves the gun could not be made to fire without

587
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 8: the pull of the trigger. Accidental discharge testing determined that

588
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 8: the firearm used in the shooting, a forty five CULT

589
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 8: single action revolver, could not have fired without the trigger

590
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 8: being pulled. The FBI report also says with the hammer

591
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 8: in the quarter half cock and fully cocked positions, the

592
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 8: gun could not be made to fire without a pull

593
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 8: of the trigger. Ali Baldwin says he didn't pull the trigger.

594
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: So that may very well be the torpedo into Alec

595
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: Baldwin's defense. He could rightfully claim, Oh, it's all the

596
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: armorer's fault. That would be a good defense. Do I

597
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: believe it? No, But he could claim that, but he

598
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: stuck with his claim he never pulled trigger. And there

599
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,479
Speaker 1: is nothing worse than a big fat lie landing right

600
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: in the middle of your pristine defense of blaming guitaras

601
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: Reid so to you, Marie Callahan dailymail dot com. He's

602
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: still stuck with that statement, even though the FBI has

603
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: proven he did pull the trigger. So when you catch

604
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: the defendant lying, it's hard to believe the rest of

605
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: their defense, like it's her fault, not my fault.

606
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 4: Right Nancy.

607
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 5: And to jump off your previous guests comments, you know,

608
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 5: first of all, it is equally Alec Baldwin's fault. He

609
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 5: is as culpable as the armorer. Both can be at fault.

610
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 5: It's not a binary choice. It's not one or the other.

611
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 5: In the days and weeks after this tragedy, I spoke

612
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 5: to two veteran experts of firearm safety on Hollywood sets,

613
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 5: TV and film. They told me very simple things. There

614
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 5: should be no live rounds. There should have been no

615
00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 5: dummy rounds in that gun.

616
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 4: When you bring a gun.

617
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 5: To set that the armorer her or himself is checked,

618
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 5: they then open that weapon in front of the actor

619
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 5: and in front of everybody on that set to show

620
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 5: that it is empty. They handed to the actor. The

621
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 5: actor examines it themselves. If Alec Baldwin in that scene

622
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 5: had been called to put that gun to the temple

623
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 5: of his forehead and pull the trigger, do we think

624
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 5: he would have opened that gun?

625
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 4: I think yes.

626
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 5: And finally, you are always instructed to never aim a

627
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 5: gun at anything or anyone you do not intend to kill.

628
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 5: Alec Baldwin pointed that gun at Helena Hutchins and pulled

629
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 5: the trigger. Guns do not go off by themselves. If

630
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 5: this defense were allowed to stand, anybody ever charged with

631
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 5: shooting or killing somebody with a firearm would point.

632
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 4: To that defense. Whoops, gun went off by itself. Doesn't

633
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 4: happen very quickly.

634
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: You were running out of time, and I got to

635
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: ask Dale, Carson Dale, I know this is against every

636
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: fiber of your being as a trial lawyer, but orsus sincly. Okay,

637
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: the state's got another problem of their own doing. I

638
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: haven't earned anybody mention this yet, but remember, against my

639
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: recommendation and many others, not just me, the state actually

640
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,479
Speaker 1: dropped charges against Baldwin early on.

641
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 4: They're now claying we learned a tough lesson.

642
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so now the defense can rightfully argue to the jury, Hey,

643
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 1: they dropped the charges because they didn't believe in the charges.

644
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 4: Now they're bringing them again.

645
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 6: Well, actually they can actually bring witnesses who made that

646
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 6: decision which pushed the government in an even less tenable situation,

647
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 6: which is certainly what I would do. You'd want the

648
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 6: rationale by not prosecuting.

649
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 4: Johannes Chimwayno, what were you saying?

650
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 6: Oh?

651
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 11: I was saying many things in terms of again, Hannagutierra's

652
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 11: reed has already been convicted of involuntary manslaughter. She will

653
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 11: be the scapegoat, Nancy. So can we depend on the

654
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 11: defense Council for Alec Balton coming in and using that

655
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 11: as a means to get Alec Balton off the case. Absolutely,

656
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 11: and that's what I anticipate what happen going into the

657
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 11: case in July.

658
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: Agree, Paul Zich, this is your jurisdiction. You are joining

659
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: us from New Mexico. There, what's the word?

660
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 10: The real problem that Alec Bowman has is the elements

661
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 10: of this crime. Regardless of his status in Hollywood or

662
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 10: you know how many actors he calls in for his defense,

663
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 10: the burden of proof for this particular statute is very low,

664
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 10: and the fact that the gun was in his hand statutorially,

665
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 10: he's got a real problem and as such, he should

666
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 10: take a plea deal. Is my my where I'm at

667
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 10: on this, because I think he's he's going to have

668
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 10: a real tough time convincing a jury that, in fact,

669
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 10: he did not create a sequence of events that created

670
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 10: this death. He was in the mix. There's no way

671
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 10: to pull yourself.

672
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 1: Out of this perfectly, said Paul Zike. Agree, guys, let's

673
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: start with all the Alec Baldwin for just one moment

674
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: and remember American hero Border Patrol agent Christopher Luna. Luna

675
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: died with two New York National Guarden members protecting our country.

676
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: He leaves behind his wife, Esmeralda, and two beautiful children,

677
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: Sarah and Hayden. Agent Christopher Luna, American hero Nancy Gray

678
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,