WEBVTT - The Jump in ICE Funding Behind The Minneapolis Surge

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>Minnesota is taking center stage and an intensifying standoff between

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<v Speaker 2>states and the federal government.

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<v Speaker 3>My name is Keith Ellison. I'm the Attorney General for

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<v Speaker 3>the State of Minnesota.

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<v Speaker 2>On Monday, Minnesota sued the federal government.

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<v Speaker 3>We're filing against the United States Department of Homeland Security

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<v Speaker 3>to end the unlawful, unprecedented surge of the federal law

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<v Speaker 3>enforcement agents into Minnesota because.

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<v Speaker 4>This has to stop.

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<v Speaker 2>Since the start of President Trump's second term, a growing

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<v Speaker 2>number of immigration and customs enforcement officers have surged into

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<v Speaker 2>big cities across the US. Ellison suit alleges in Minnesota,

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<v Speaker 2>ICE agents have sown chaos and terror. It accuses aggressive

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<v Speaker 2>and poorly trained officers of conducting warrantless searches and racist

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<v Speaker 2>arrests and using excssive force. In Minneapolis. Last week, one

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<v Speaker 2>of those ICE agents fatally shot Renee A Coole good,

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<v Speaker 2>a mother of three, in her car. Goods killing set

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<v Speaker 2>off a firestorm of competing narratives from federal and local officials.

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<v Speaker 2>She then proceeded to weaponize her vehicle, and she attempted

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<v Speaker 2>to run an law enforcement officer over.

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<v Speaker 1>They are already trying to spin this as an action

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<v Speaker 1>of self defense. Having seen the video of myself, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to tell everybody directly that is both.

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<v Speaker 2>Even as Minnesota tries to eject ICE with its lawsuit,

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<v Speaker 2>the federal government says it's sending more ICE agents to

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<v Speaker 2>the Minneapolis area. On the ground, ICE has been met

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<v Speaker 2>with protests and with observers who track the officer's movements.

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<v Speaker 2>The better equipped ICE forces outnumber local police, something local

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<v Speaker 2>authorities say makes it harder for local police to maintain

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<v Speaker 2>public safety. What Minnesota is ground with is a new ICE,

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<v Speaker 2>according to Bloomberg Immigration reporter Alicia Caldwell, who's covered the

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<v Speaker 2>Department of Homeland Security and ICE for two decades.

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<v Speaker 4>So what we're seeing is this massive expansion.

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<v Speaker 5>Remember the Big Beautiful Bill provided one hundred and seventy

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<v Speaker 5>five billion dollars over the next several years. Big chunk

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<v Speaker 5>of that is for ICE. This is a full scale

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<v Speaker 5>evolution of the agency.

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<v Speaker 2>From one perspective on this evolution, I spoke to a friend, Olivarees,

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<v Speaker 2>a human rights lawyer and the vice president of Litigation

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<v Speaker 2>and Legal Strategy at the National Immigration Law Center.

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<v Speaker 6>The way ICE and ICE agents are operating under this

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<v Speaker 6>administration is unprecedented in its twenty two years of existence. Right,

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<v Speaker 6>they had never conducted this scale of operations around the country.

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<v Speaker 2>What a friend says he's seeing in Minneapolis is ICE

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<v Speaker 2>operating more boldly than it has in the past, with

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<v Speaker 2>officers moving beyond their longtime brief.

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<v Speaker 6>The amount of MONE money that ICE has gotten is

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<v Speaker 6>more than the GDP of many countries in the world.

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<v Speaker 6>The prospect of what ICE is going to look like

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<v Speaker 6>and what immigration enforcement is going to look like in

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<v Speaker 6>this country, I don't think we have come to terms

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<v Speaker 6>with that. It's hard to imagine what an agency ten

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<v Speaker 6>times the size of ICE, in terms of resources, weapons, equipment,

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<v Speaker 6>and the tension could mean for the American public.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 6>I want to be clear that this is becoming of

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<v Speaker 6>concern for immigrants and their families, but also for everybody

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<v Speaker 6>regardless of immigration status.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg News today. On the show, how ICE's evolution under

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<v Speaker 2>Trump's second term paved the way for violence in Minneapolis,

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<v Speaker 2>How state and local officials are trying to get federal

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<v Speaker 2>agents out of their cities, and what's next in the

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<v Speaker 2>battle between state officials and ICE. The ICE agent who

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<v Speaker 2>fatally shot Renee Good on January seventh, was part of

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<v Speaker 2>a surge of heavily armed federal troops that had been

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<v Speaker 2>deployed by the Trump administration to the Minneapolis area. Bloomberg's

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<v Speaker 2>Alicia Caldwell says they began arriving in early December under

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<v Speaker 2>what ICE called Operation Metro Search.

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<v Speaker 5>So it's being described as a twofold operation fraud within

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<v Speaker 5>the Somali community, which the state recognizes in the state

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<v Speaker 5>has been trying to address along with the federal government,

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<v Speaker 5>as well as the broader immigration approach that they've taken

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<v Speaker 5>across the country. We've seen it in Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington,

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<v Speaker 5>New Orleans, Charlotte, and now it's Minneapolis's turn, if you will.

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<v Speaker 4>But this is different.

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<v Speaker 5>This is bigger, and this is much more expansive. They

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<v Speaker 5>are describing it as the largest such operation of its kind,

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<v Speaker 5>meaning just law enforcement. We've seen the National Guard elsewhere,

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<v Speaker 5>but this is just law enforcement. It's accommodation of ICE,

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<v Speaker 5>now Border Patrol and other federal agents from across the

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<v Speaker 5>Department of Justice and elsewhere, sort of anybody with a gun,

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<v Speaker 5>if you will.

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<v Speaker 2>By now, you know, I think a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>have seen what happened in Minneapolis, seen the shooting of

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<v Speaker 2>Renee Good. But after the shooting, two very different accounts

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<v Speaker 2>took shape of what happened and who is at fault.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you lay out those different narratives for me?

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<v Speaker 4>Right?

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<v Speaker 5>So they're two star creep or views on this one

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<v Speaker 5>is from the US government. They were very swift to

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<v Speaker 5>say Renee Good was in the wrong. You know, her

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<v Speaker 5>vehicle was blocking the road at some point, she seems

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<v Speaker 5>to be waving cars on. But ice their perspective is

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<v Speaker 5>she tried to run them over. Now, we've seen many

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<v Speaker 5>many different angles, including a camera angle from the officer

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<v Speaker 5>involved in the shooting, who actually shot multiple times into

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<v Speaker 5>the vehicle. There's no video evidence that I've seen that

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<v Speaker 5>he is hit. Now, I says, hey, this guy was

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<v Speaker 5>protecting his own he was protecting his life.

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<v Speaker 4>She did this, She tried to run them over.

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<v Speaker 5>The President of the United States actually accused her of viciously.

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<v Speaker 4>Running them over.

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<v Speaker 5>There isn't video of that from the other side, which

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<v Speaker 5>is a growing chorus and a very loud chorus from

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<v Speaker 5>the state government on down in the public. She was

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<v Speaker 5>trying to leave her tires appeared to be turned. You know,

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<v Speaker 5>we can't see directly into the driver's seat, but she

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<v Speaker 5>appeared to try to turn, according to them and leave.

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<v Speaker 2>This dissonant response from federal and local officials has in

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<v Speaker 2>part seated this conflict over who will actually run the

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<v Speaker 2>investigation into Renee Goods killing.

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<v Speaker 6>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Trump officials have said that the FBI has taken over

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<v Speaker 2>the investigation of the shooting. The Minnesota body that would

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<v Speaker 2>usually investigate the sort of case says that the Trump

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<v Speaker 2>administration has blocked its access to materials and evidence from

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<v Speaker 2>the investigation. So what's the latest in this standoff?

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<v Speaker 5>So the federal bearer of investigation has taken the lead

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<v Speaker 5>this morning, there's been reports of resignations from the Department

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<v Speaker 5>of Justice, from the Civil Rights Division because they are

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<v Speaker 5>not apparently investigating, and that would normally be.

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<v Speaker 4>A pretty routine course of business.

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<v Speaker 5>And an officer involved shooting like this, and regardless of

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<v Speaker 5>where you fall in the political spectrum, you have a

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<v Speaker 5>US citizen who has deceased, the shooter, which is not

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<v Speaker 5>in doubt is the United States government employee, a.

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<v Speaker 4>Federal law enforcement officer.

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<v Speaker 5>So traditionally you'd have multiple strands of investigation. The FBI

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<v Speaker 5>is the lead. The Justice Department is in charge here.

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<v Speaker 5>They have cut out, according to Minnesota officials, the Bureau

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<v Speaker 5>of Criminal Apprehension, which is their top law enforcement agency

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<v Speaker 5>in the state.

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<v Speaker 4>Now that agency and state officials have.

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<v Speaker 5>Said they are in fact receiving credible information from witnesses

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<v Speaker 5>from community members, which they've asked for. That said, they've

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<v Speaker 5>been pretty open that without the assistance of the federal government,

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<v Speaker 5>without forensics, without access to the vehicle and other details,

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<v Speaker 5>it may be difficult to compile the type of evidence

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<v Speaker 5>they would need to make it determination.

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<v Speaker 2>And another poll of the state local versus federal conflict

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<v Speaker 2>is these lawsuits that were announced on Monday. State officials

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<v Speaker 2>in Minnesota are filing a lawsuit against Christy Nome and

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<v Speaker 2>Ice tell us who exactly is behind that suit and

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<v Speaker 2>what they're seeking, But.

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<v Speaker 4>It's the state of Minnesota.

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<v Speaker 5>So the Attorney General, generally Keith Ellison, would run that

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<v Speaker 5>lawsuit on behalf of the state of Minnesota, and the

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<v Speaker 5>idea is to try to force them to either curtail

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<v Speaker 5>their tactics or leave all together.

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<v Speaker 2>It seems like the state's argument here is that they

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<v Speaker 2>don't need federal forces on the ground they didn't ask

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<v Speaker 2>for federal forces on the ground. Federal forces are in

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<v Speaker 2>some cases disrupting local law enforcement efforts. What is the

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<v Speaker 2>federal government's argument for being there and in fact sending

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<v Speaker 2>more troops to Minnesota.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, what they say they get to they have jurisdiction

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<v Speaker 5>over the immigration laws wherever somebody may be suspect of

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<v Speaker 5>being in the country unlawfully. Same with you know, the

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<v Speaker 5>broader fraud allegations. They're making this very broad jurisdictional argument

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<v Speaker 5>which is hard to you know, get around, right, they're

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<v Speaker 5>the federal government. In other cities, the administration has said, hey,

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<v Speaker 5>we're going in to curtail violent crime in addition to immigration,

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<v Speaker 5>because the two are hand in hand, and they have

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<v Speaker 5>suggested they are arresting the worst of the worst. But

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<v Speaker 5>you know, in that mix, what we have seen is

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<v Speaker 5>a growing percentage of non criminal immigrants whose only offense

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<v Speaker 5>is being in the country without authorization or even suspected

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<v Speaker 5>of not being in the country without authorization.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break, how ICE's budget, recruitment process and tactics

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<v Speaker 2>have changed under the second Trump administration and what comes

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<v Speaker 2>next for the bolt up agency. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

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<v Speaker 2>is a relatively new agency for the US. It was

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<v Speaker 2>created a little over two decades ago in the wake

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<v Speaker 2>of nine to eleven. Its mandate is to enforce federal

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<v Speaker 2>immigration laws, but Bloomberg's Alicia Caldwell says the agency has

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<v Speaker 2>changed since then.

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<v Speaker 5>It's a completely different agency in many respects. So I've

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<v Speaker 5>covered DHS and all its components since two thousand and five.

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<v Speaker 5>And when I started, ICE was still getting its sea

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<v Speaker 5>legs because it was an amalgamation of previous entities from

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<v Speaker 5>the Department of Treasury, from the old I ands under

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<v Speaker 5>the Department of Justice, and this whole mix of officers

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<v Speaker 5>and agents trying to figure out its new mission. And

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<v Speaker 5>it's evolved during the first Trump administration. I went out

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<v Speaker 5>with ICE and it was a very traditional sort of

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<v Speaker 5>Sisyphian task. You have a list of one hundred people

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<v Speaker 5>you want to find. You have vetted background on them,

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<v Speaker 5>you know who they are, you know where they live

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<v Speaker 5>theoretically or hopefully, you know where they work, and you

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<v Speaker 5>try to go find them and you find very few

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<v Speaker 5>of them because people aren't always readily available to open

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<v Speaker 5>the door or willing to open the door. And that

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<v Speaker 5>was a big hang up for ICE. They couldn't go

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<v Speaker 5>in your house. They can't go in your house without

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<v Speaker 5>a judicial warrant.

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<v Speaker 2>As police can't either, right, I mean, no one can.

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<v Speaker 5>Right.

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<v Speaker 4>You just don't get to barge through people's doors.

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<v Speaker 5>And traditionally you don't just get to walk up to

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<v Speaker 5>somebody on the street and say, hey, who are you,

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<v Speaker 5>what's your immigration status? Border Patrol has expanded their use

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<v Speaker 5>of their authority to do that. They get to do

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<v Speaker 5>that within one hundred miles of the border. And now

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<v Speaker 5>ICE is being far more aggressive. It used to be

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<v Speaker 5>do not give chase. It's dangerous for you, it's dangerous

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<v Speaker 5>for them.

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<v Speaker 4>Let's not do it.

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<v Speaker 5>Now we're giving chase that we're seeing smash windows, we're seeing,

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<v Speaker 5>as we saw in Minneapolis, surrounding a car in this case,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, and there's questions about whether the officer ever

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<v Speaker 5>should have been in front of the vehicle at all.

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<v Speaker 5>That's in fact against their own procedures and rules, and

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<v Speaker 5>it's tactically not safe.

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<v Speaker 2>Does that reflect a change in protocol or is just

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<v Speaker 2>a change in action.

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<v Speaker 4>It's a change in action because the rules haven't changed.

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<v Speaker 2>What has changed is ICE's level of funding. The Big

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<v Speaker 2>Beautiful Bill Act allocated an additional one hundred and seventy

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<v Speaker 2>billion dollars over four years for the administration's border and

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<v Speaker 2>immigration cracked out.

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<v Speaker 4>It's never been even close to this.

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<v Speaker 5>It's expanded exponentially by the tens of billions of dollars.

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<v Speaker 5>With the Trump administration took office, there was a budget

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<v Speaker 5>allotment for about forty thousand attention beds and ten thousand or.

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<v Speaker 4>So RO officers.

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<v Speaker 5>They're looking to have twenty thousand RO officers and one

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<v Speaker 5>hundred thousand beds. And they're making moves left and right.

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<v Speaker 5>They're buying munitions, they're buying tactical gear, handcuffs, right restraints,

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<v Speaker 5>all the things that would normally go into their business.

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<v Speaker 5>They're spending a lot more money on now as they

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<v Speaker 5>expand rapidly. This is the largest expansion we've ever seen

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<v Speaker 5>of immigration enforcement.

0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Efriend Olivarez of the National Immigration Law Center says as

0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.880
<v Speaker 2>the agency has rapidly expanded in size, it's also been

0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:23.520
<v Speaker 2>deployed in American cities at a far greater scale.

0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:28.880
<v Speaker 6>They had never conducted this scale of operations. So the

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:34.920
<v Speaker 6>local officials with smaller teams with fewer resources, are trying

0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:39.920
<v Speaker 6>to protect their residents, their constituents and maintain public order

0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.640
<v Speaker 6>in the phase of these unprecedented operations by ICE.

0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.880
<v Speaker 2>ICE has the power to arrest, detain, to port people

0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.120
<v Speaker 2>who are in this country illegally. But what we're seeing

0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.400
<v Speaker 2>in places like Minneapolis is that these agents are coming

0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:58.079
<v Speaker 2>into contact with a much broader swath of the population

0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.960
<v Speaker 2>than they previously have. Right since protesters, bystanders and green

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:07.880
<v Speaker 2>card holders, how has the scope of the work expanded?

0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.800
<v Speaker 2>Has it officially expanded? Are we just seeing a change

0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.600
<v Speaker 2>in operations? Can you help me make sense of the shift.

0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:20.360
<v Speaker 6>You're absolutely right that the way ices operating has expanded

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:25.920
<v Speaker 6>beyond any reasonable way. But let's keep in mind the

0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.800
<v Speaker 6>law has not changed, right, isis authority has not changed.

0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.720
<v Speaker 6>They have the power in the authority to arrest people

0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.440
<v Speaker 6>who are in the country unlawfully, to the poor people

0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:40.720
<v Speaker 6>who should be deported. They don't have the authority to

0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 6>break down a door in a house without a warrant

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.840
<v Speaker 6>or probable cause, and they are doing that that is illegal, Like,

0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.320
<v Speaker 6>let's be clear, that's breaking and entering. Then if somebody

0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.160
<v Speaker 6>demands to see that warrant, they're just ignoring them and

0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 6>pushing forward, banking on the fact that it's going to

0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 6>be hard for that individual to find a lawyer to

0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.800
<v Speaker 6>do something about it. But no, the law has not

0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 6>changed with respect to the authority of ICE. It's gotten

0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:10.200
<v Speaker 6>more money significantly by Congress, but the scope of if

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:11.920
<v Speaker 6>an authority has not changed.

0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm wondering how the shooting in Minneapolis has ramped up

0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.120
<v Speaker 2>other cities and states attempts to limit ICE's power on

0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:22.480
<v Speaker 2>the ground and to make more preemptive legislation here.

0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:27.240
<v Speaker 6>Yeah. So at the federal level, there are some bills

0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.960
<v Speaker 6>that have been introduced, but they do not appear to

0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:35.240
<v Speaker 6>have the political support to move forward. Some states, like California,

0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.920
<v Speaker 6>for example, have enacted laws that prohibit federal agents and

0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.160
<v Speaker 6>all law enforcement from wearing masks and require that they

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:47.160
<v Speaker 6>identify themselves. Perhaps not unsurprisingly or not surprisingly, the Department

0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.440
<v Speaker 6>of Justice now sued the state of California alleging that

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.800
<v Speaker 6>that law is unconstitutional, and that case is proceeding through

0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.960
<v Speaker 6>the courts. But the Illinois as well has enacted laws

0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.960
<v Speaker 6>and it's also been sued by the federal government trying

0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:05.240
<v Speaker 6>to find ways to hold agents accountable when they violate

0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:05.640
<v Speaker 6>the law.

0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.920
<v Speaker 2>What could happen right now to prevent another incident like

0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:11.680
<v Speaker 2>this from occurring.

0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.880
<v Speaker 6>I think if the leaders of ICE and the HS

0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 6>and the federal government were to change their rhetoric and say,

0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.720
<v Speaker 6>we do not want ICE murdering anybody, we don't want

0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.200
<v Speaker 6>anybody else to die. We want to enforce immigration laws,

0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.640
<v Speaker 6>but nobody should die. That would send a message to

0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.400
<v Speaker 6>agents to de escalate any confrontation that they may encounter.

0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.560
<v Speaker 6>But that's not what we're hearing from the leaders of

0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.960
<v Speaker 6>those agencies and those departments unfortunately. So I think that

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.360
<v Speaker 6>could help, right if the messaging from the higher ups changed,

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.480
<v Speaker 6>that could make it less likely than another tragedy unfolds.

0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 2>This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder.

0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.160
<v Speaker 2>To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access

0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.880
<v Speaker 2>to all of bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg

0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.760
<v Speaker 2>dot com slash Podcast offer. Thanks for listening. We'll be

0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:06.400
<v Speaker 2>back tomorrow.