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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Minnesota is taking center stage and an intensifying standoff between

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Speaker 2: states and the federal government.

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Speaker 3: My name is Keith Ellison. I'm the Attorney General for

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Speaker 3: the State of Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: On Monday, Minnesota sued the federal government.

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Speaker 3: We're filing against the United States Department of Homeland Security

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Speaker 3: to end the unlawful, unprecedented surge of the federal law

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Speaker 3: enforcement agents into Minnesota because.

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Speaker 4: This has to stop.

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Speaker 2: Since the start of President Trump's second term, a growing

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Speaker 2: number of immigration and customs enforcement officers have surged into

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Speaker 2: big cities across the US. Ellison suit alleges in Minnesota,

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Speaker 2: ICE agents have sown chaos and terror. It accuses aggressive

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Speaker 2: and poorly trained officers of conducting warrantless searches and racist

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Speaker 2: arrests and using excssive force. In Minneapolis. Last week, one

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Speaker 2: of those ICE agents fatally shot Renee A Coole good,

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Speaker 2: a mother of three, in her car. Goods killing set

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Speaker 2: off a firestorm of competing narratives from federal and local officials.

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Speaker 2: She then proceeded to weaponize her vehicle, and she attempted

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Speaker 2: to run an law enforcement officer over.

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Speaker 1: They are already trying to spin this as an action

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Speaker 1: of self defense. Having seen the video of myself, I

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Speaker 1: want to tell everybody directly that is both.

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Speaker 2: Even as Minnesota tries to eject ICE with its lawsuit,

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Speaker 2: the federal government says it's sending more ICE agents to

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Speaker 2: the Minneapolis area. On the ground, ICE has been met

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Speaker 2: with protests and with observers who track the officer's movements.

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Speaker 2: The better equipped ICE forces outnumber local police, something local

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Speaker 2: authorities say makes it harder for local police to maintain

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Speaker 2: public safety. What Minnesota is ground with is a new ICE,

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Speaker 2: according to Bloomberg Immigration reporter Alicia Caldwell, who's covered the

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Speaker 2: Department of Homeland Security and ICE for two decades.

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Speaker 4: So what we're seeing is this massive expansion.

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Speaker 5: Remember the Big Beautiful Bill provided one hundred and seventy

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Speaker 5: five billion dollars over the next several years. Big chunk

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Speaker 5: of that is for ICE. This is a full scale

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Speaker 5: evolution of the agency.

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Speaker 2: From one perspective on this evolution, I spoke to a friend, Olivarees,

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Speaker 2: a human rights lawyer and the vice president of Litigation

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Speaker 2: and Legal Strategy at the National Immigration Law Center.

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Speaker 6: The way ICE and ICE agents are operating under this

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Speaker 6: administration is unprecedented in its twenty two years of existence. Right,

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Speaker 6: they had never conducted this scale of operations around the country.

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Speaker 2: What a friend says he's seeing in Minneapolis is ICE

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Speaker 2: operating more boldly than it has in the past, with

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Speaker 2: officers moving beyond their longtime brief.

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Speaker 6: The amount of MONE money that ICE has gotten is

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Speaker 6: more than the GDP of many countries in the world.

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Speaker 6: The prospect of what ICE is going to look like

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Speaker 6: and what immigration enforcement is going to look like in

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Speaker 6: this country, I don't think we have come to terms

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Speaker 6: with that. It's hard to imagine what an agency ten

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Speaker 6: times the size of ICE, in terms of resources, weapons, equipment,

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Speaker 6: and the tension could mean for the American public.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 6: I want to be clear that this is becoming of

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Speaker 6: concern for immigrants and their families, but also for everybody

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Speaker 6: regardless of immigration status.

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Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg News today. On the show, how ICE's evolution under

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Speaker 2: Trump's second term paved the way for violence in Minneapolis,

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Speaker 2: How state and local officials are trying to get federal

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Speaker 2: agents out of their cities, and what's next in the

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Speaker 2: battle between state officials and ICE. The ICE agent who

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Speaker 2: fatally shot Renee Good on January seventh, was part of

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Speaker 2: a surge of heavily armed federal troops that had been

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Speaker 2: deployed by the Trump administration to the Minneapolis area. Bloomberg's

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Speaker 2: Alicia Caldwell says they began arriving in early December under

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Speaker 2: what ICE called Operation Metro Search.

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Speaker 5: So it's being described as a twofold operation fraud within

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Speaker 5: the Somali community, which the state recognizes in the state

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Speaker 5: has been trying to address along with the federal government,

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Speaker 5: as well as the broader immigration approach that they've taken

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Speaker 5: across the country. We've seen it in Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington,

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Speaker 5: New Orleans, Charlotte, and now it's Minneapolis's turn, if you will.

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Speaker 4: But this is different.

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Speaker 5: This is bigger, and this is much more expansive. They

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Speaker 5: are describing it as the largest such operation of its kind,

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Speaker 5: meaning just law enforcement. We've seen the National Guard elsewhere,

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Speaker 5: but this is just law enforcement. It's accommodation of ICE,

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Speaker 5: now Border Patrol and other federal agents from across the

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Speaker 5: Department of Justice and elsewhere, sort of anybody with a gun,

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Speaker 5: if you will.

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Speaker 2: By now, you know, I think a lot of people

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Speaker 2: have seen what happened in Minneapolis, seen the shooting of

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Speaker 2: Renee Good. But after the shooting, two very different accounts

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Speaker 2: took shape of what happened and who is at fault.

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Speaker 2: Can you lay out those different narratives for me?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 5: So they're two star creep or views on this one

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Speaker 5: is from the US government. They were very swift to

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Speaker 5: say Renee Good was in the wrong. You know, her

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Speaker 5: vehicle was blocking the road at some point, she seems

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Speaker 5: to be waving cars on. But ice their perspective is

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Speaker 5: she tried to run them over. Now, we've seen many

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Speaker 5: many different angles, including a camera angle from the officer

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Speaker 5: involved in the shooting, who actually shot multiple times into

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Speaker 5: the vehicle. There's no video evidence that I've seen that

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Speaker 5: he is hit. Now, I says, hey, this guy was

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Speaker 5: protecting his own he was protecting his life.

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Speaker 4: She did this, She tried to run them over.

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Speaker 5: The President of the United States actually accused her of viciously.

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Speaker 4: Running them over.

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Speaker 5: There isn't video of that from the other side, which

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Speaker 5: is a growing chorus and a very loud chorus from

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Speaker 5: the state government on down in the public. She was

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Speaker 5: trying to leave her tires appeared to be turned. You know,

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Speaker 5: we can't see directly into the driver's seat, but she

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Speaker 5: appeared to try to turn, according to them and leave.

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Speaker 2: This dissonant response from federal and local officials has in

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Speaker 2: part seated this conflict over who will actually run the

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Speaker 2: investigation into Renee Goods killing.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 2: Trump officials have said that the FBI has taken over

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Speaker 2: the investigation of the shooting. The Minnesota body that would

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Speaker 2: usually investigate the sort of case says that the Trump

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Speaker 2: administration has blocked its access to materials and evidence from

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Speaker 2: the investigation. So what's the latest in this standoff?

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Speaker 5: So the federal bearer of investigation has taken the lead

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Speaker 5: this morning, there's been reports of resignations from the Department

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Speaker 5: of Justice, from the Civil Rights Division because they are

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Speaker 5: not apparently investigating, and that would normally be.

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Speaker 4: A pretty routine course of business.

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Speaker 5: And an officer involved shooting like this, and regardless of

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Speaker 5: where you fall in the political spectrum, you have a

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Speaker 5: US citizen who has deceased, the shooter, which is not

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Speaker 5: in doubt is the United States government employee, a.

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Speaker 4: Federal law enforcement officer.

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Speaker 5: So traditionally you'd have multiple strands of investigation. The FBI

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Speaker 5: is the lead. The Justice Department is in charge here.

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Speaker 5: They have cut out, according to Minnesota officials, the Bureau

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Speaker 5: of Criminal Apprehension, which is their top law enforcement agency

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Speaker 5: in the state.

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Speaker 4: Now that agency and state officials have.

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Speaker 5: Said they are in fact receiving credible information from witnesses

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Speaker 5: from community members, which they've asked for. That said, they've

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Speaker 5: been pretty open that without the assistance of the federal government,

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Speaker 5: without forensics, without access to the vehicle and other details,

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Speaker 5: it may be difficult to compile the type of evidence

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Speaker 5: they would need to make it determination.

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Speaker 2: And another poll of the state local versus federal conflict

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Speaker 2: is these lawsuits that were announced on Monday. State officials

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Speaker 2: in Minnesota are filing a lawsuit against Christy Nome and

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Speaker 2: Ice tell us who exactly is behind that suit and

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Speaker 2: what they're seeking, But.

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Speaker 4: It's the state of Minnesota.

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Speaker 5: So the Attorney General, generally Keith Ellison, would run that

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Speaker 5: lawsuit on behalf of the state of Minnesota, and the

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Speaker 5: idea is to try to force them to either curtail

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Speaker 5: their tactics or leave all together.

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Speaker 2: It seems like the state's argument here is that they

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Speaker 2: don't need federal forces on the ground they didn't ask

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Speaker 2: for federal forces on the ground. Federal forces are in

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Speaker 2: some cases disrupting local law enforcement efforts. What is the

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Speaker 2: federal government's argument for being there and in fact sending

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Speaker 2: more troops to Minnesota.

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Speaker 5: Well, what they say they get to they have jurisdiction

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Speaker 5: over the immigration laws wherever somebody may be suspect of

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Speaker 5: being in the country unlawfully. Same with you know, the

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Speaker 5: broader fraud allegations. They're making this very broad jurisdictional argument

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Speaker 5: which is hard to you know, get around, right, they're

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Speaker 5: the federal government. In other cities, the administration has said, hey,

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Speaker 5: we're going in to curtail violent crime in addition to immigration,

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Speaker 5: because the two are hand in hand, and they have

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Speaker 5: suggested they are arresting the worst of the worst. But

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Speaker 5: you know, in that mix, what we have seen is

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Speaker 5: a growing percentage of non criminal immigrants whose only offense

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Speaker 5: is being in the country without authorization or even suspected

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Speaker 5: of not being in the country without authorization.

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Speaker 2: After the break, how ICE's budget, recruitment process and tactics

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Speaker 2: have changed under the second Trump administration and what comes

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Speaker 2: next for the bolt up agency. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

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Speaker 2: is a relatively new agency for the US. It was

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Speaker 2: created a little over two decades ago in the wake

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Speaker 2: of nine to eleven. Its mandate is to enforce federal

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Speaker 2: immigration laws, but Bloomberg's Alicia Caldwell says the agency has

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Speaker 2: changed since then.

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Speaker 5: It's a completely different agency in many respects. So I've

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Speaker 5: covered DHS and all its components since two thousand and five.

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Speaker 5: And when I started, ICE was still getting its sea

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Speaker 5: legs because it was an amalgamation of previous entities from

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Speaker 5: the Department of Treasury, from the old I ands under

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Speaker 5: the Department of Justice, and this whole mix of officers

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Speaker 5: and agents trying to figure out its new mission. And

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Speaker 5: it's evolved during the first Trump administration. I went out

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Speaker 5: with ICE and it was a very traditional sort of

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Speaker 5: Sisyphian task. You have a list of one hundred people

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Speaker 5: you want to find. You have vetted background on them,

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Speaker 5: you know who they are, you know where they live

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Speaker 5: theoretically or hopefully, you know where they work, and you

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Speaker 5: try to go find them and you find very few

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Speaker 5: of them because people aren't always readily available to open

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Speaker 5: the door or willing to open the door. And that

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Speaker 5: was a big hang up for ICE. They couldn't go

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Speaker 5: in your house. They can't go in your house without

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Speaker 5: a judicial warrant.

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Speaker 2: As police can't either, right, I mean, no one can.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 4: You just don't get to barge through people's doors.

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Speaker 5: And traditionally you don't just get to walk up to

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Speaker 5: somebody on the street and say, hey, who are you,

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Speaker 5: what's your immigration status? Border Patrol has expanded their use

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Speaker 5: of their authority to do that. They get to do

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Speaker 5: that within one hundred miles of the border. And now

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Speaker 5: ICE is being far more aggressive. It used to be

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Speaker 5: do not give chase. It's dangerous for you, it's dangerous

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Speaker 5: for them.

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Speaker 4: Let's not do it.

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Speaker 5: Now we're giving chase that we're seeing smash windows, we're seeing,

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Speaker 5: as we saw in Minneapolis, surrounding a car in this case,

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Speaker 5: you know, and there's questions about whether the officer ever

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Speaker 5: should have been in front of the vehicle at all.

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Speaker 5: That's in fact against their own procedures and rules, and

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Speaker 5: it's tactically not safe.

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Speaker 2: Does that reflect a change in protocol or is just

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Speaker 2: a change in action.

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Speaker 4: It's a change in action because the rules haven't changed.

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Speaker 2: What has changed is ICE's level of funding. The Big

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Speaker 2: Beautiful Bill Act allocated an additional one hundred and seventy

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Speaker 2: billion dollars over four years for the administration's border and

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Speaker 2: immigration cracked out.

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Speaker 4: It's never been even close to this.

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Speaker 5: It's expanded exponentially by the tens of billions of dollars.

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Speaker 5: With the Trump administration took office, there was a budget

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Speaker 5: allotment for about forty thousand attention beds and ten thousand or.

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Speaker 4: So RO officers.

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Speaker 5: They're looking to have twenty thousand RO officers and one

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Speaker 5: hundred thousand beds. And they're making moves left and right.

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Speaker 5: They're buying munitions, they're buying tactical gear, handcuffs, right restraints,

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Speaker 5: all the things that would normally go into their business.

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Speaker 5: They're spending a lot more money on now as they

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Speaker 5: expand rapidly. This is the largest expansion we've ever seen

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Speaker 5: of immigration enforcement.

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Speaker 2: Efriend Olivarez of the National Immigration Law Center says as

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Speaker 2: the agency has rapidly expanded in size, it's also been

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Speaker 2: deployed in American cities at a far greater scale.

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Speaker 6: They had never conducted this scale of operations. So the

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Speaker 6: local officials with smaller teams with fewer resources, are trying

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Speaker 6: to protect their residents, their constituents and maintain public order

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Speaker 6: in the phase of these unprecedented operations by ICE.

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Speaker 2: ICE has the power to arrest, detain, to port people

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Speaker 2: who are in this country illegally. But what we're seeing

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Speaker 2: in places like Minneapolis is that these agents are coming

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Speaker 2: into contact with a much broader swath of the population

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Speaker 2: than they previously have. Right since protesters, bystanders and green

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Speaker 2: card holders, how has the scope of the work expanded?

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Speaker 2: Has it officially expanded? Are we just seeing a change

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Speaker 2: in operations? Can you help me make sense of the shift.

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Speaker 6: You're absolutely right that the way ices operating has expanded

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Speaker 6: beyond any reasonable way. But let's keep in mind the

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Speaker 6: law has not changed, right, isis authority has not changed.

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Speaker 6: They have the power in the authority to arrest people

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Speaker 6: who are in the country unlawfully, to the poor people

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Speaker 6: who should be deported. They don't have the authority to

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Speaker 6: break down a door in a house without a warrant

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Speaker 6: or probable cause, and they are doing that that is illegal, Like,

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Speaker 6: let's be clear, that's breaking and entering. Then if somebody

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Speaker 6: demands to see that warrant, they're just ignoring them and

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Speaker 6: pushing forward, banking on the fact that it's going to

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Speaker 6: be hard for that individual to find a lawyer to

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Speaker 6: do something about it. But no, the law has not

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Speaker 6: changed with respect to the authority of ICE. It's gotten

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Speaker 6: more money significantly by Congress, but the scope of if

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Speaker 6: an authority has not changed.

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering how the shooting in Minneapolis has ramped up

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Speaker 2: other cities and states attempts to limit ICE's power on

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Speaker 2: the ground and to make more preemptive legislation here.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. So at the federal level, there are some bills

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Speaker 6: that have been introduced, but they do not appear to

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Speaker 6: have the political support to move forward. Some states, like California,

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Speaker 6: for example, have enacted laws that prohibit federal agents and

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Speaker 6: all law enforcement from wearing masks and require that they

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Speaker 6: identify themselves. Perhaps not unsurprisingly or not surprisingly, the Department

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Speaker 6: of Justice now sued the state of California alleging that

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Speaker 6: that law is unconstitutional, and that case is proceeding through

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Speaker 6: the courts. But the Illinois as well has enacted laws

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Speaker 6: and it's also been sued by the federal government trying

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Speaker 6: to find ways to hold agents accountable when they violate

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Speaker 6: the law.

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Speaker 2: What could happen right now to prevent another incident like

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Speaker 2: this from occurring.

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Speaker 6: I think if the leaders of ICE and the HS

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Speaker 6: and the federal government were to change their rhetoric and say,

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Speaker 6: we do not want ICE murdering anybody, we don't want

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Speaker 6: anybody else to die. We want to enforce immigration laws,

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Speaker 6: but nobody should die. That would send a message to

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Speaker 6: agents to de escalate any confrontation that they may encounter.

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Speaker 6: But that's not what we're hearing from the leaders of

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Speaker 6: those agencies and those departments unfortunately. So I think that

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Speaker 6: could help, right if the messaging from the higher ups changed,

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Speaker 6: that could make it less likely than another tragedy unfolds.

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Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder.

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Speaker 2: To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access

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Speaker 2: to all of bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: dot com slash Podcast offer. Thanks for listening. We'll be

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Speaker 2: back tomorrow.