Speaker 1: Hello everybody, Thank you so much for joining us again.
Speaker 1: It's Jefferson White here, Jimmy Herdstrom on the PARAMOUNTA Networks, Yellowstone,
Speaker 1: joined as always by Jen Land and Jen. How you doing,
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being here.
Speaker 2: Thanks Jeff, how you doing?
Speaker 3: I'm good.
Speaker 1: I mean this, I gotta say I'm feeling it is
Speaker 1: a pretty wild week in the Yellowstone universe here. So
Speaker 1: not only in episode five oh eight of Yellowstone. In
Speaker 1: season five, episode eight of Yellowstone, we've got danger on
Speaker 1: the horizon, danger brewing, this seemingly intractable conflict between Jamie
Speaker 1: Dutton and Beth Dutton boiling over, seeming like it's coming
Speaker 1: to a head. It seems like it can only end
Speaker 1: with terrible, perhaps fatal consequences. Not to mention in episode
Speaker 1: three of nineteen twenty three, this absolutely shocking shootout, this
Speaker 1: incredible action sequence, really wild time, exciting time to be
Speaker 1: a Yellowstone fan.
Speaker 4: So, Jeff, what you're saying is the theme of today's
Speaker 4: episode is death. It's going to be really cheery, and
Speaker 4: later on we are going to be talking about the
Speaker 4: five most significant deaths on Yellowstone, and we're going to
Speaker 4: be doing that with our guest. We have Lynette Rice,
Speaker 4: who's going to be joining us. She is a senior
Speaker 4: reporter at Deadline. She's a huge fan of the show
Speaker 4: and jeff She's a New York Times bestselling author.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got your picks. I've got my picks. Lynette's
Speaker 1: got her picks. I'm extremely excited to dig into it,
Speaker 1: hash it out, get to the bottom of this right
Speaker 1: after this.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're back.
Speaker 4: I'm super excited, as morbid as that sounds to talk
Speaker 4: about death and all of the most significant and my
Speaker 4: favorite ones.
Speaker 2: And we are going to introduce you to our guests.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 4: This is Lynette Rice, again, a senior reporter Deadline, huge
Speaker 4: fan of the show.
Speaker 5: Hi, Lynnette, Hello, Hello, so great to be here.
Speaker 2: We're super excited to have you.
Speaker 6: I do want to ask Jefferson, have you ever asked
Speaker 6: her to do one episode fully as Teeter? I mean,
Speaker 6: she's not allowed to sound like Jen, she can only
Speaker 6: be Teeter.
Speaker 1: I've been begging her since the beginning. We did one
Speaker 1: and then the producer called it incomprehensible.
Speaker 3: Which I thought was a little little rude.
Speaker 4: I was going to say that, actually notes came down
Speaker 4: the line that I was incomprehensible on this show, but
Speaker 4: not because of my annunciation, just because I told stories
Speaker 4: like that Sleep with Me podcast guy, which the whole
Speaker 4: point is they go nowhere.
Speaker 5: That would be a classic episode.
Speaker 3: Lynnette.
Speaker 1: We feel it so lucky to have you with us
Speaker 1: today as an expert all things, you know, entertainment and television,
Speaker 1: and I'm excited to see you know, Jen and I
Speaker 1: are a little bit biased in our opinions about the show,
Speaker 1: so I'm excited for a little objective journalism. I'm excited
Speaker 1: for a you know, a third party perspective and a
Speaker 1: little bit of you know, rationality infused into this.
Speaker 6: Sure, I guess I could bring that objectivity. I'll be
Speaker 6: objective about the way Kevin Costner looks, I promise.
Speaker 3: So I can't help.
Speaker 1: But notice, you know, we've been talking about Yellowstone, We've
Speaker 1: been talking about the whole Taylor Shared and Extended universe.
Speaker 1: Eighteen eighty three, nineteen twenty three. You know, in the
Speaker 1: first episode of nineteen twenty three, we hear a voiceover
Speaker 1: from Elsa Dutton who says that violence has always haunted
Speaker 1: the Dutton family, and we've witnessed that not just in
Speaker 1: the actions of Yellowstone, but also throughout the course of
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty three and now through the first few episodes
Speaker 1: of nineteen twenty three, this family seems to constantly be
Speaker 1: under attack, to constantly have to resort to violence to
Speaker 1: protect their history, their culture, their way of life. And
Speaker 1: so we've witnessed the terrible ramifications of that haunting over
Speaker 1: five seasons of Yellowstone. Now, so I thought it might
Speaker 1: be fun to rank our top five deaths across Yellowstone
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty three and nineteen twenty three. So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get us started, and then I'm gonna kick it to you, Lynnette.
Speaker 1: My number five death is the death of Evelyn Dutton,
Speaker 1: John Dutton's wife, as depicted by Gretchen mal in flashback
Speaker 1: in season one of Yellowstone. We're talking about Beth's mom,
Speaker 1: Casey's mom, the tragic formative loss that seems to have
Speaker 1: kicked off a lot of the struggle that John Dutton
Speaker 1: is now weighed down by not having this partner, you know,
Speaker 1: In eighteen eighty three we see a pair. In nineteen
Speaker 1: twenty three, we see Helen Mire and Anne Harrison Ford,
Speaker 1: this pair, this couple fighting together against outside forces. John Dutton.
Speaker 1: It seems is sort of sitting on the throne alone
Speaker 1: and for want of a partner, seems to be struggling
Speaker 1: to hold his family together. So for me number five,
Speaker 1: that's Evelyn Dutton. What do you think when Itte?
Speaker 6: I totally agree there's so much drama there left on
Speaker 6: the table. By the way, by killing her off. I
Speaker 6: want to see Gretchen Maul's mom with Beth. I mean,
Speaker 6: I feel like she'd be kind of shrewy, she would
Speaker 6: be like, oh, it would be the kind of mother
Speaker 6: daughter relationship we all live for in cinema. So it's
Speaker 6: too bad we don't have that. So yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 6: Maya my five. Can you guys remember that journalist who
Speaker 6: died in the first season?
Speaker 5: Yes, what the hell did she have to die?
Speaker 6: I mean, I guess this sets up the kind of
Speaker 6: you know, pooh head that you know Jamie is. I
Speaker 6: think as he was responsible for her death. I think
Speaker 6: that was the case. It seems so long ago, doesn't it,
Speaker 6: But I remember her death. It's like, dang, she's gone, Wow,
Speaker 6: this is this family exactly right.
Speaker 1: Not only Jamie killed her, So Jamie first sort of
Speaker 1: spilled his guts to her about all these these sordid
Speaker 1: details about the Dutton family's history and then killed her.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The character's name is Sarah Wynn and the actress's name
Speaker 1: is Mikaela Conlin.
Speaker 4: She was almost my number five pick. She got edged
Speaker 4: out slightly, I think, probably by my number one pick.
Speaker 4: But my five I can't talk about five without talking
Speaker 4: about four. So my five and four, guys, I'm breaking
Speaker 4: the rules. My five and four are Lee Dutton and
Speaker 4: Robert Monica's brother because when Lee Dutton died played by
Speaker 4: Dave Annabel, it was like the Sean Bean death and
Speaker 4: Game of Thrones where I knew that nobody was safe,
Speaker 4: that anybody at any moment could drop dead because they
Speaker 4: killed him off. And number four being Robert Monica's brother,
Speaker 4: because you know, now we have this like Romeo and
Speaker 4: Juliet kind of thing.
Speaker 2: So those are my five and four.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very Romeo and Juliet, right, because Robert Long
Speaker 1: kills Lee yep, and then Casey kills Robert Long, which.
Speaker 3: Really, does you know?
Speaker 1: It sets off the conflict of all of season one.
Speaker 1: Season one is so much this kind of three headed
Speaker 1: conflict between Rainwater, John Dutton, and Dan Jenkins, these people
Speaker 1: who later managed to find common ground, but it takes
Speaker 1: them a while. With such a rocky start. That's a
Speaker 1: great one. So for me, Number four really mostly so
Speaker 1: high on the list because of its how exciting and
Speaker 1: fun a sequence. It was Rourke with the rattlesnake. Yeah,
Speaker 1: rip in the river with the rattlesnake. You know, if
Speaker 1: we're playing clue here. I found that incredibly satisfying. Rourke
Speaker 1: was so expertly played as a smug asshole, interloping, getting
Speaker 1: in far over his head, and then paying the ultimate
Speaker 1: price for it.
Speaker 3: I love that sequence.
Speaker 5: Very kill Bill, you forgot to say hot.
Speaker 1: He was very hot, very sorry, very hot, gentleman, very hot.
Speaker 4: Rourke was not on my top five, Jeff, but I
Speaker 4: have a star on my notes. I made my own
Speaker 4: section called favorite death, which, like, by the way, I
Speaker 4: have more than one, but that was my favorite death.
Speaker 4: I remember reading that in the script and being like.
Speaker 6: Yes, my four, I'm gonna say Casey and Monica's baby.
Speaker 5: Why did they do that?
Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's set up such an incredible season
Speaker 6: for Kelsey. I mean, god, she's just been so depressed
Speaker 6: and she's obviously done some of her best work on
Speaker 6: the show. And really brought out in the dimension of
Speaker 6: her character, of which I think was lacking, but that
Speaker 6: still was kind of a wham. I mean, it's like, Wow,
Speaker 6: what a thing to put on that little kid and
Speaker 6: then to put her through and it involved it was
Speaker 6: Was it.
Speaker 5: A buffalo that it was evolved with? It was a buffalo?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Bad newsman.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The classic beginnings and endings, you know. So, season five,
Speaker 1: episode one, John Dutton is elected governor. It's this moment
Speaker 1: of perhaps triumph and then the tragic loss of Casey's son,
Speaker 1: also named John. So for me number three and perhaps
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of Jimmy bias here, it's Fred.
Speaker 1: It's Fred from season one, the first guy we saw
Speaker 1: take into the train station. For those who may not remember,
Speaker 1: Fred was the massive glute expertly played by Luke Peck
Speaker 1: and Paul who just beats the shit out of Jimmy.
Speaker 1: And then we see this incredibly satisfying immediate revenge as
Speaker 1: Rip and Low come to Jimmy's aid and really punish
Speaker 1: him on the spot. It's when we first hear Rip's
Speaker 1: iconic line there's no fighting on this ranch. If you
Speaker 1: want to fight, you come fight me. I'll fight you
Speaker 1: all goddamn day. So you know, Fred makes the terrible
Speaker 1: mistake of beating up a branded man, and you know,
Speaker 1: we learn a lot from this sequence. We learned the
Speaker 1: consequences of beating up a branded man, we learned the
Speaker 1: consequences of fighting on the ranch. And also Fred is
Speaker 1: the first character we see taken to the train station,
Speaker 1: which will obviously be a recurring theme no doubt throughout
Speaker 1: the rest of our lists.
Speaker 4: Jeff, when I was searching the internet for all the
Speaker 4: people who had died on Yellowstone because I forgot, I
Speaker 4: was surprised that an inordinate amount had to do with you.
Speaker 4: And I always think of Jimmy as this like sweet,
Speaker 4: peaceful guy. But maybe Jimmy is the villain because there
Speaker 4: were like seven deaths related to you, more than any
Speaker 4: other care character, perhaps seven, like.
Speaker 2: In Really Something Crazy. I was like, God, Jimmy, just
Speaker 2: if you go around.
Speaker 4: Me, you die.
Speaker 3: Listen.
Speaker 1: To be fair, I think Casey kills seven people in
Speaker 1: the first three episodes of Yellowstone. They didn't make the list,
Speaker 1: So Jimmy, listen, Jimmy. Jimmy only participates in Jimmy Is
Speaker 1: Jimmy is perhaps also haunted by violence, haunted by tragedy.
Speaker 3: He's had a very hard life.
Speaker 6: This the mid season finale, when we saw you, Jefferson
Speaker 6: Uh in your new settings, to me, you look like
Speaker 6: a completely different guy, especially because in comparison to that
Speaker 6: first season. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Nothing's changed
Speaker 6: about you in the They changed your look, but you
Speaker 6: seem so different to me, Like you know, you've come
Speaker 6: into your own You're mister true cowboy. You know you
Speaker 6: have the beautiful woman I.
Speaker 1: Mean, Lynette listen. I was already a fan of your work.
Speaker 1: We knew, we knew that you had a sort of
Speaker 1: clear eye in incisive style of journalism and reporting on
Speaker 1: the ground. But this is really demonstrating your ability to
Speaker 1: cut through the bullshit and get straight to the facts
Speaker 1: of the matter. Thank you, thank you very much for
Speaker 1: saying that. With that, and now I'm going to turn
Speaker 1: it back on you. Your number three death, Yellowstone number
Speaker 1: three death, Who is it?
Speaker 5: Okay?
Speaker 6: I didn't love that? Well, no, I took that back.
Speaker 6: It was very interesting that we met Jamie's true dad.
Speaker 6: I didn't love the character because he felt like a nuisance.
Speaker 6: But I also still don't understand why Jamie killed him.
Speaker 6: Because it's still his real dad, even though he was
Speaker 6: kind of a butenski. I was shocked that Garrett, you,
Speaker 6: obviously played by Will Patton, met his maker. That was
Speaker 6: kind of a shocker because he was the only dude
Speaker 6: left in Jamie's corner.
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, it was brutal.
Speaker 1: It really felt like about as machiavellian as Beth has
Speaker 1: ever been. You know, Beth has Jamie for most of
Speaker 1: their lives, certainly their whole adult lives. And forcing him
Speaker 1: to kill his own father, sort of building this puzzle
Speaker 1: box the only way out of which was killing his
Speaker 1: own father, is perhaps as evil as Beth has ever been. Granted,
Speaker 1: the argument can be made that Garrett Randall himself was
Speaker 1: an evil man. He orchestrated the attempted hit on Beth
Speaker 1: Casey John Dutton. So it's a complicated thing. And Taylor
Speaker 1: loves to write these characters that aren't just bad guys
Speaker 1: or good guys. They have redeeming qualities. Garrett, for how
Speaker 1: sort of evil he himself was, also showed Jamie kindness
Speaker 1: in a way perhaps no other character has, and Beth
Speaker 1: for how much we love her, sometimes putting Jamie in
Speaker 1: the position of having to shoot his own father in
Speaker 1: the head. As you said, the only person that was
Speaker 1: in his corner. About as evil as we've seen Beth
Speaker 1: beat as well. Jen, I'm really excited to dig into
Speaker 1: it and hear about your number three. But before we do,
Speaker 1: let's go to.
Speaker 4: A quick break, all right, So we're on our number
Speaker 4: three death, Lynnette. My number three pick is the same
Speaker 4: as your number three pick, which of course is Garrett Randall,
Speaker 4: played by Will Patton, Jamie's dad. Not just because I'm
Speaker 4: obsessed with Will Patten as an actor, but because I
Speaker 4: think that having to kill your own father crosses a
Speaker 4: line of which you do not come back from Beth
Speaker 4: by doing this. I think it's a monster of her
Speaker 4: own creation. Him having to cross that line has created
Speaker 4: a person that will cross any line, and I think
Speaker 4: it's going to be and obviously he's looking like it already,
Speaker 4: the biggest threat to Beth and John.
Speaker 6: I think what's most significant about this death and kind
Speaker 6: of really speaks to Taylor's thinking and obviously how he's
Speaker 6: thinking of ahead. That death gave Beth the first introduction
Speaker 6: to the train station she followed Jamie. She took that picture,
Speaker 6: which ultimately she uses as a tool in the mid
Speaker 6: season finale as a way to blackmail him into doing
Speaker 6: what he does. But there there's some people who think
Speaker 6: that how would she not know about the train station
Speaker 6: until now? But I can see how she would know
Speaker 6: about the train station, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense to him, Jeff, go ahead.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's plausible deniability, you know. I think
Speaker 1: John has different soldiers for different tasks. He asks Rip
Speaker 1: to take people to the train station, he asks Lloyd,
Speaker 1: he asks Casey. I think Beth handles a completely different
Speaker 1: side of the operation, and I think that, if anything,
Speaker 1: it's smart leadership to keep those halves distinct. And there's
Speaker 1: also I remember, very specifically, there's some stuff between Rip
Speaker 1: and Beth where Beth asks Rip to tell her where
Speaker 1: he's been, and he says, don't ask me that. That's
Speaker 1: like the one thing I can't tell you. That's the
Speaker 1: one thing I can't share with you. You know, they have
Speaker 1: they are both soldiers for John, but in different arenas.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels very much to me like both of
Speaker 4: those men protecting Beth is a top priority, and so
Speaker 4: to expose her to that in any way is dangerous
Speaker 4: or deadly.
Speaker 6: And don't I don't want to get I don't want
Speaker 6: to get too much in the weeds here, by the way.
Speaker 6: But train station is that a cowboy state saying? Have
Speaker 6: you guys heard that before? I mean, why take to
Speaker 6: the strength train station? Why not like take to the more,
Speaker 6: take to the fridge? Do you know if like where
Speaker 6: he came up with train station of all places?
Speaker 4: Is that a saying, Jeff, do you I don't think
Speaker 4: it's I think it's an invention.
Speaker 1: I think it's an invention of the lore of this world,
Speaker 1: so of Taylor's world here. And I think what's fun
Speaker 1: about it too, is it also has a kind of
Speaker 1: intergenerational linguistic flair clever.
Speaker 5: It's very clever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we don't know when people started doing this.
Speaker 1: We don't know when the first time somebody went to
Speaker 1: the train station was.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like you can also like you can say the
Speaker 4: train station, like while you're you know, taking them to
Speaker 4: the train station, while you're like sitting in a coffee shop,
Speaker 4: you know, maybe getting your nails done. But you can't
Speaker 4: be like take them to the morgue, you know, right
Speaker 4: in the middle of a pedic Yeah.
Speaker 5: It's it's code, yes, total code.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it leads to this nice open secret because
Speaker 1: Beth probably would have heard somebody say, oh, take them
Speaker 1: to the train station and not necessarily understood what that meant.
Speaker 1: There's this very shilling sequence in season one, I think
Speaker 1: when Walker is in the back of Rip's truck and
Speaker 1: Casey says to Walker, Hey, wait a second, where you
Speaker 1: guys going, And Walker says, al, he's going to take
Speaker 1: me to the train station because he doesn't know what
Speaker 1: that implies. You know, it leads to it's it's a
Speaker 1: sort of almost mafia like secret vocabulary for those.
Speaker 4: In the know.
Speaker 1: You're gonna go to the Bear's dramatically satisfying.
Speaker 4: Just to we're just going to the beach, kid, Uh,
Speaker 4: that intergenerational thing, Jeff, like I thought it was. I
Speaker 4: was thinking about how you know, at a certain time,
Speaker 4: when you board the train to go somewhere else, like
Speaker 4: you're not coming back because it's an incredibly long, arduous
Speaker 4: journey or whatever. But I wonder if Taylor is going
Speaker 4: to pay that off in a literal way. I don't
Speaker 4: think he is, but I wonder if there will be
Speaker 4: a very literal moment in which we see a body
Speaker 4: earlier kind of go to the train station in a
Speaker 4: different way. It actually is put on a train. I
Speaker 4: don't imagine that happened anything.
Speaker 6: Yeah, oh well, didn't we get the origin of the
Speaker 6: train station when we saw the flash? Was that so
Speaker 6: the the the kid that young rip beat up? Do
Speaker 6: you think that was the first body to the train
Speaker 6: station or was the train station already established before that?
Speaker 1: It seems to me to be implied that it was
Speaker 1: already established before that, and that Rowdy being taken Rowdy's
Speaker 1: body being taken to the train station was another entry.
Speaker 1: So it seems like, you know, young Lloyd who takes
Speaker 1: that body to the train station was already familiar with
Speaker 1: that practice. I'm excited to see if nineteen twenty three
Speaker 1: is the one that like introduces that concept, because now
Speaker 1: that we've got this range war erupting in nineteen twenty three, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe for the first time there's some you know, conflict
Speaker 1: about the cowboy way of life versus this modern, you know,
Speaker 1: proper appropriate avenue of justice. I'm excited to see if
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty three gives us our first trip to the
Speaker 1: train station.
Speaker 2: Jeff, do you want to do you want to give
Speaker 2: us your number two?
Speaker 1: Well, my number two has got a bit of a
Speaker 1: Jimmy bias to it as well. So Jimmy's old life
Speaker 1: kind of comes back to haunt him, particularly in seasons
Speaker 1: Season two mostly you know, so Season two is a
Speaker 1: violent season for Jimmy. He's confronted by some of his
Speaker 1: old associates who end up beating his grandfather to death.
Speaker 1: So his last living relative is his grandfather, Dirk Heardstrom,
Speaker 1: who in the pilot episode of Yellowstone asks John Dutton, Hey,
Speaker 1: will you take my good for nothing grandson onto the ranch?
Speaker 1: Will you set him straight? So for Jimmy, I think
Speaker 1: the death of Dirk Hurdstrom, his grandfather, represents the last
Speaker 1: sort of tether to his old life and his old identity,
Speaker 1: and in some ways represents this kind of rebirth. You know,
Speaker 1: Rip says to Jimmy, I'm going to show you how
Speaker 1: to take care of problem so they don't become bigger problems.
Speaker 3: It feels like.
Speaker 1: Those And then you know, the subsequent Jimmy and Rip
Speaker 1: and the gang exploding the meth house trailer, killing Jimmy's
Speaker 1: old associates. There's a series of very violent deaths that
Speaker 1: seemed to me formative for this new Jimmy. The Jimmy
Speaker 1: that we know now, you know, he has this kind
Speaker 1: of rebirth away from his old associates and his old
Speaker 1: way of life. So for me number two, it's Dirk
Speaker 1: Hurdstrom and it's Jimmy's old associates, the drug dealers.
Speaker 3: What do you think, Lynnette, my.
Speaker 6: Number two is going to be Jens. I think it
Speaker 6: was her four or five. It's Dave Annabel. I think
Speaker 6: her comparison to Sean Bean in Game of Thrones was
Speaker 6: apt because Sean Bean's character at the time, he was
Speaker 6: the moral center of Game of Thrones and he went away,
Speaker 6: and Lee Dutton represented all that is good about the
Speaker 6: rancher's life. There was nothing bad about this kid. He
Speaker 6: was just a good hard worker and he loved his
Speaker 6: family and he loved his land. And they killed him.
Speaker 6: So that was sad to see. And I also really
Speaker 6: liked Dave Annabel. I was a huge brother as a
Speaker 6: Sisters fan. I loved him on that show, so it
Speaker 6: was sad to say goodbye.
Speaker 1: You know. I can't help Leneppa draw some parallels between
Speaker 1: the death of Lee Dutton and the death of John
Speaker 1: Dutton Senior.
Speaker 3: In nineteen twenty three. As a result of this big shootout.
Speaker 1: So, you know, you mentioned Dave Annabel the performance that
Speaker 1: was robbed from us by the death of Lee Dutton.
Speaker 1: I feel the same way about James Badge Dale, who
Speaker 1: plays John Dutton Senior, because James is an incredible actor,
Speaker 1: one of his generation's best character actors, and I was
Speaker 1: really excited to see you many more episodes and a
Speaker 1: similar situation. We're talking about the sort of oldest son,
Speaker 1: the heir apparent, the steadfast, you know, steadfast kind of
Speaker 1: moral center, perhaps the inheritor of their respective father's work,
Speaker 1: ethic and sort of simple kind of sense of justice.
Speaker 1: So it really, it does feel like both of the
Speaker 1: deaths of both those characters, Lee Dutton and Yellowstone and
Speaker 1: John Dutton Senior in nineteen twenty three feel like they're
Speaker 1: very formative, and I'm really curious to see the ramifications
Speaker 1: of that death in nineteen twenty three. You know, So
Speaker 1: the death of John Dutton Senior also brings to mind
Speaker 1: the sort of ominous prophecy that we hear at the
Speaker 1: beginning of nineteen twenty three, Jen, will you dig into.
Speaker 3: That a little bit?
Speaker 4: Will you?
Speaker 3: Will you break that down?
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if I'm going to break
Speaker 2: it down.
Speaker 4: But I can tell you the fear that it has
Speaker 4: sparked in me, which is that I believe that what
Speaker 4: Elsa says is that she says only one of them,
Speaker 4: of her two brothers, only one of them will see
Speaker 4: their children grow to be adults themselves. Right. So here
Speaker 4: we have John Dutton senior, right, he is killed. We
Speaker 4: have Jack Dutton, his son, right, who I consider to
Speaker 4: be grown. So that leads me to believe that Spencer
Speaker 4: Dutton is not safe because she says only one of
Speaker 4: them will live to see theirs grown, their own children grow,
Speaker 4: Which leads me to believe that while Spencer is alive now,
Speaker 4: and while Spencer may have children, there's a good chance,
Speaker 4: if the prophecy holds or the storytelling is you know
Speaker 4: the tracks across, that he will die before his own
Speaker 4: child becomes an adult.
Speaker 2: Right, you know what I mean? Isn't that what she says?
Speaker 1: Does she say only one of them will live to
Speaker 1: see their own.
Speaker 4: She says she's only one of them will live to
Speaker 4: see there's grown or something like that.
Speaker 2: Sorry, that's my relief.
Speaker 1: And wonder now where we leave Spencer. We've seen Spencer
Speaker 1: sort of fight his way through hell. In World War
Speaker 1: not only in World War One, but now he's sort
Speaker 1: of being haunted by violence across all of Africa. It
Speaker 1: seems sort of chasing his own death. You know, he's
Speaker 1: either being haunted by violence or he's haunting violence, because
Speaker 1: it really seems like he's pursuing death in some way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there's that great line that that Kara says,
Speaker 4: Helen Maren's character character. I just always want to be
Speaker 4: like Helen. I just want to connect to Helen Maren
Speaker 4: as much as that she says. At the letter she
Speaker 4: says and I add to a to a letter Dispenser's,
Speaker 4: she says something along the lines of, I don't know
Speaker 4: what war it is you're fighting inside or you know,
Speaker 4: but you need to you need to put that aside
Speaker 4: and come back home and fight this one.
Speaker 6: And well that was his war, his war days, right,
Speaker 6: he's still carrying the heaviness of the war.
Speaker 2: There is a PTSD storyline, I think in that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, sure, I thought that that was some ballsy writing
Speaker 6: by Taylor, because I when when I first heard else
Speaker 6: to say that, I was a bit confused and I
Speaker 6: had to stop and look at every you know, detail
Speaker 6: available about what this new show was setting up, and
Speaker 6: who's related to who? I got confused at first, but
Speaker 6: now it's all very clear. He was obviously talking about
Speaker 6: James Badge Dale's death. I don't want to believe that
Speaker 6: Spencer dies because I really like that character and I
Speaker 6: want to see where that marriage goes.
Speaker 2: He could die very late, he could he could die.
Speaker 2: It takes like, let's say it takes twenty years for
Speaker 2: a kid to grow up. Let's or eighteen.
Speaker 5: We got it.
Speaker 6: We got to carry on the Detton seed somehow, So
Speaker 6: obviously somebody has to live.
Speaker 4: No, they don't, because you could have a kid, right,
Speaker 4: you can have a kid. She they just I think
Speaker 4: that I think it was that you just don't see
Speaker 4: him grow up so correct, you know up till eighteen.
Speaker 4: You know we can wherever that limit hits.
Speaker 1: Well, this is so exciting, and it's what you guys
Speaker 1: described earlier. Is this feeling that nobody's safe. I think
Speaker 1: that's an atmosphere that Taylor has really expertly crafted on
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, on nineteen eight, on eighteen eighty three, and
Speaker 1: on nineteen twelve, twenty three, this feeling that these beloved
Speaker 1: characters are never safe. So going into every gun fight,
Speaker 1: I find myself, you know, breathless, trying to track what's happening.
Speaker 3: And that when when.
Speaker 1: Our man shows up in the car with the Tommy gun,
Speaker 1: that was such a sort of frightening image, you know,
Speaker 1: the image of that modernity, just like all these guys.
Speaker 3: It feels like it's you know, it's decades.
Speaker 1: It's like the future showing up in the middle of
Speaker 1: Montana with a Tommy gun and to say, you know,
Speaker 1: sit down.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And there's that moment earlier in the episode, which
Speaker 4: like was very satisfying on a light version of that,
Speaker 4: when the family is walking down the street and they
Speaker 4: talk about the washing machine, you know that there's and
Speaker 4: they talk about those things coming in and I don't
Speaker 4: know when he when he got out of that car
Speaker 4: with you know, I don't know enough about guns, but
Speaker 4: I'm gonna call it like an automatic weapon.
Speaker 2: Basically.
Speaker 4: Suddenly the car and that weapon, it felt so deeply fair.
Speaker 4: The fight no longer felt like a fight. And I
Speaker 4: couldn't help but think about, you know, how Native American
Speaker 4: tribes felt when settlers showed up with guns, when you know,
Speaker 4: when they when they had bows and arrows.
Speaker 1: It seems to represent intergenerationally, the Duttons are often outmatched
Speaker 1: by technology, by these sort of like legal maneuvers. It
Speaker 1: feels like so much of what Market Equities is doing
Speaker 1: is trying to make the parameters of their fight unfair.
Speaker 1: They're trying to do whatever they can to sort of bring,
Speaker 1: you know, the coercive American legal system to bear against
Speaker 1: the Duttons. They're sort of trying to they can't win
Speaker 1: the fight by the Duttons' rules, so they're trying to
Speaker 1: shift the parameters of the fight. And it really feels
Speaker 1: like that's what Bronner does in that moment as he says, Okay,
Speaker 1: we can't fight your way.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna fight my way.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, you know, hit you with a car and
Speaker 1: shoot you forty times with a machine gun.
Speaker 5: I thought it was such a bitch and prop.
Speaker 6: It was very much like an Indiana Jones moment, remember
Speaker 6: that from the first movie where he pulls out the.
Speaker 5: Gun when you know they're the nights with them and
Speaker 5: he just pulls up like shut up.
Speaker 6: I got giddy when I saw the prop. It was Now,
Speaker 6: I don't know where Shepherd is going to get a
Speaker 6: Tommy gun, but whatever.
Speaker 5: Details details, I thought it was. It was pretty great.
Speaker 4: Well, the choreography in that whole fight sequence, I just
Speaker 4: have to say was so breathtaking. Moment to moment, I
Speaker 4: have this reaction when I watch things that are like violence.
Speaker 2: That is beautifully.
Speaker 4: Choreographed, I like start crying, even though I don't feel sad,
Speaker 4: And that happened during this fight sequence, even down to
Speaker 4: like the detail of the entire family being on one
Speaker 4: side of that fallen log and then going to the
Speaker 4: other side and just like holding on for this narrow
Speaker 4: margin of potential safety.
Speaker 1: Jin it sounds like you've got a lot of insight
Speaker 1: about Lynette's number two. I've yet to hear a number
Speaker 1: two from you. So let's go to a break really quick,
Speaker 1: and then when we come back, you're on the hook.
Speaker 5: Okay, Jan, I'm dying to here, get it, dying to
Speaker 5: hear what you're number two is.
Speaker 4: Okay, listen, my number two. While not technically a death,
Speaker 4: it you know, or in the literal sense that we've
Speaker 4: been you know, addressing things, Uh, it feels to me
Speaker 4: like a death of a dream, a death of a possibility,
Speaker 4: a death of and and I think that you know,
Speaker 4: this feels like a death for a lot of women,
Speaker 4: which is Beth's hysterectomy, and suddenly she cannot have she
Speaker 4: cannot have children, and people I know who have been
Speaker 4: told they cannot have kids. It feels very much like
Speaker 4: a death. So that is my number two because I
Speaker 4: cannot think about who Beth is without that loss sort
Speaker 4: of interwoven into the animal that she is.
Speaker 2: So that's my number two.
Speaker 5: Cheery, excellent selection.
Speaker 6: And I remember, I mean the reveal on that was
Speaker 6: so huge and I immediately went to the Internet to
Speaker 6: look up the history of these clinics on the reservation
Speaker 6: and that whole story is steeped in reality, which was
Speaker 6: even more depressing. That one really hung on to me.
Speaker 4: Okay, are we at number one? Are we going to
Speaker 4: talk about number one deaths? I'm ready, I'll go because
Speaker 4: mine's I'll just lead here and we'll go around this
Speaker 4: way again. Okay, so my number one deaf, though I
Speaker 4: do kind of want to change it. My number one
Speaker 4: death is Evelyn and Dutton because I think the ultimate
Speaker 4: wound is the mother wound.
Speaker 1: It's a really good one, Jen, I mean, the Evelyn
Speaker 1: stuff is really I don't think it can be overstated
Speaker 1: how much the you know, it feels like this generation
Speaker 1: of Dutton's, their grip on this ranch is more precarious
Speaker 1: than it's ever been. We see it sort of slipping
Speaker 1: out of their fingers. From the very beginning, the ranch
Speaker 1: is in crisis, and John Dutton bemoans over and over again, God,
Speaker 1: if my wife could see how poorly I've done holding
Speaker 1: our family together, if my wife could see the mess
Speaker 1: I've made of things. It really feels like he's missing
Speaker 1: this anchor. He feels in some ways like a sort
Speaker 1: of cursed or haunted, kind of empty man. From the
Speaker 1: very beginning of the show, and it really feels like,
Speaker 1: you know, the loss of Evelyn also heavily informs the
Speaker 1: relationship between Beth and John, which is one of the
Speaker 1: critical relationships of the show. Beth's loyalty to John. So
Speaker 1: much of what she does, this kind of destructive spree
Speaker 1: that she's on, is in John's name, in part because
Speaker 1: I think, I think, like you said, she doesn't have
Speaker 1: this mother. She feels as though she has so much
Speaker 1: responsibility to her father, especially because she feels responsible for
Speaker 1: Evelyn's death. You know, we saw in that tragic flashback,
Speaker 1: Beth feels responsible for Evelyn's death, and she will go
Speaker 1: to the ends of the earth and sort of you know,
Speaker 1: spite it all, cut it all down, to try to
Speaker 1: redeem you know, what she feels she's responsible for.
Speaker 3: It's really it's very tragic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, as you were talking, I was just thinking about
Speaker 4: young Rip all of a sudden and of course, and
Speaker 4: you know, young Beth and young Jamie, and how there's
Speaker 4: a lot of these characters as children feel deeply responsible for,
Speaker 4: you know, for deaths of individuals or for you know, Jamie,
Speaker 4: the hysterectomy of Beth. That it's just a tremendous amount
Speaker 4: of shame to carry into adulthood.
Speaker 3: Grew up way too fast.
Speaker 6: All right, I'm going to my number one is all
Speaker 6: the deaths at the end of eighteen eighty three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to agree. I mean, I think my
Speaker 1: number one is similarly. Yeah, all these Duttons that have
Speaker 1: come before. You know, by the time we get to
Speaker 1: the action of Yellowstone, it feels like Kevin Costner John
Speaker 1: Dutton is dragging behind the terrible weight of his ancestors.
Speaker 1: It feels like he's got all of these skeletons almost
Speaker 1: shackled to him. That he's trying so hard to drag
Speaker 1: them along with him into the future. And I can't
Speaker 1: help but feel like it's feudle. You know, I can't
Speaker 1: help but feel like it's a doomed enterprise.
Speaker 6: This list, this is what makes TV so great. I mean,
Speaker 6: this is why showrunners should never listen to fans, because
Speaker 6: fans will always want to keep everybody alive. But there's
Speaker 6: no conflict there, there's no drama. And if you think
Speaker 6: back at the best television of your life, it's the
Speaker 6: one you think about those great deaths. My one of
Speaker 6: my all time favorites is when Josh Charles was killed
Speaker 6: off on The Good Wife.
Speaker 5: I still remember it. I still watch it today and
Speaker 5: it kills me.
Speaker 6: And so I mean, as sad as it is to
Speaker 6: say goodbye to these characters, you need this to keep
Speaker 6: the show fresh and interesting. In getting us to talk
Speaker 6: about this and do lists like these, it's this great stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, hey, Jeff, since I know that you love death
Speaker 4: so much and you were sad to be limited to
Speaker 4: five significant ones, can we just get into some of
Speaker 4: your your top five faves because they're Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually, I made a list of thirty thirty five. We're
Speaker 1: going to start at number thirty five, here we go.
Speaker 3: No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1: I think of myself as a bit of a Yellowstone historian.
Speaker 1: So I just want to run down some of the
Speaker 1: exciting deaths, you know, exciting defining deaths from the history.
Speaker 3: Of the show.
Speaker 1: So Dan Jenkins, oh yeah, more went out for Dan Jenkins.
Speaker 1: Dan Jenkins, that was a bit for me of a
Speaker 1: moment of oh, how do we go back from this?
Speaker 1: Because he had been such a sort of formative importance
Speaker 1: and character in the first two seasons of the show.
Speaker 1: It felt like he finally saw the light towards the
Speaker 1: end of his life. Yeah, you know, he finally understood that.
Speaker 1: You know, Kevin Costner John Dutton was maybe right, you know,
Speaker 1: he he maybe sided with John Dutton against the Beck
Speaker 1: Brothers right at the end of his life, but that
Speaker 1: also cost him his life. Speaking of the Beck brothers,
Speaker 1: oh man, absolute scumbags, very satis as far as you know,
Speaker 1: satisfying deaths go. I would say, the deaths of the
Speaker 1: Beck brothers really really got me going, really got me buzzing.
Speaker 6: Well, actually, if you want to get into a t
Speaker 6: and ay three. And I didn't realize this until recently
Speaker 6: when I was reminded of it. You know Don OLIVERI
Speaker 6: who plays the vixen, who's like pulling in Jamie right now.
Speaker 6: She played Claire Dutton. Remember that whole sequence where her
Speaker 6: daughters died and she decides it's not worth living and
Speaker 6: she ends up staying there by his grave.
Speaker 5: That was brutal.
Speaker 2: That was freaking Bruce at all, totally.
Speaker 6: So yeah, that's that's up there.
Speaker 5: You can pour one out for her too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the past was bad. Overwhelmingly.
Speaker 1: As I'm watching eighteen eighty three and nineteen twenty three,
Speaker 1: I'm reminded that the past pretty rough time to be alive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not so good, guys.
Speaker 1: As we've been exploring throughout this entire episode, all things
Speaker 1: must end. All palaces are temporary palaces, This too shall pass,
Speaker 1: and this unfortunately brings us to the conclusion of this episode.
Speaker 1: So I'm so so grateful for you out there listening
Speaker 1: to us, Lynnette. I'm so grateful that you joined us.
Speaker 1: Thank you for bringing your perspective to all of this.
Speaker 3: What a joy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 6: And I really hope that you end this episode with
Speaker 6: Jen as Teeter saying, you know, sending Jimmy to the
Speaker 6: train station.
Speaker 5: Do you think you could do that, do a teeter
Speaker 5: like a teter.
Speaker 2: Dreaming in a fucking translation.
Speaker 4: I'll nice shit.
Speaker 3: There it, Lynette.
Speaker 1: I've been begging her to do that for months. I've
Speaker 1: been begging her to do the voice for months, and
Speaker 1: all you had to do was ask.
Speaker 2: I blacked out. What happened?
Speaker 1: Thank you so so much for joining us. We'll see
Speaker 1: you real soon.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to subscribe to the Official Yellowstone Podcast and
Speaker 1: you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. The Official Yellowstone Podcast is a
Speaker 1: production of one oh one Studios and Paramount. This episode
Speaker 1: was produced by Scott Stone. Brandon Getchis is the head
Speaker 1: of Audio for one oh one Studios. Steve Rasis is
Speaker 1: the executive vice president of the Paramount Global Podcast Group.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Megan Marcus, Jeremy Westfall, Ainsley Rosito, Andrew Sarnow,
Speaker 1: Jason Reid, and Whitney Baxter from Paramount, and of course
Speaker 1: David Glasser, David Huckin and Michelle Newman from one oh
Speaker 1: one Studios