1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Bushkin. 2 00:00:20,276 --> 00:00:23,836 Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, everyone. We have a little surprise for you today. 3 00:00:24,036 --> 00:00:27,836 Speaker 2: It's a conversation I recently have with Nate Burkas. If 4 00:00:27,836 --> 00:00:30,596 Speaker 2: that name rings a bell, He's a famous interior designer. 5 00:00:30,916 --> 00:00:33,276 Speaker 2: You may know him from his appearances over the years 6 00:00:33,316 --> 00:00:35,676 Speaker 2: on the Oprah Winfrey Show. You may have read one 7 00:00:35,716 --> 00:00:37,836 Speaker 2: of his books. You may even have some of his 8 00:00:37,916 --> 00:00:41,316 Speaker 2: products in your home. Anyway, this all came about because 9 00:00:41,356 --> 00:00:44,356 Speaker 2: AC Hotels wanted to host an event about design and 10 00:00:44,396 --> 00:00:47,596 Speaker 2: creativity at their Times Square location in New York City, 11 00:00:48,196 --> 00:00:51,076 Speaker 2: and we decided to invite Nate to come, which turned out, 12 00:00:51,196 --> 00:00:54,276 Speaker 2: as you will hear, to be an inspired choice. I 13 00:00:54,316 --> 00:00:57,156 Speaker 2: had so much fun doing this. We talked about our moms, 14 00:00:57,396 --> 00:01:00,316 Speaker 2: about Paris, about the TV shows that Phillis with Rage, 15 00:01:00,556 --> 00:01:04,996 Speaker 2: and a million other things, but mostly about design and creativity. 16 00:01:05,596 --> 00:01:09,916 Speaker 2: Nate is as charming and funny as he is smart. Anyway, 17 00:01:09,916 --> 00:01:12,436 Speaker 2: here it is. This all took place in the rooftop 18 00:01:12,476 --> 00:01:14,876 Speaker 2: bar of the Cotel in New York with all kinds 19 00:01:14,916 --> 00:01:18,716 Speaker 2: of fabulous cocktails and advertisers being passed around. Just a 20 00:01:18,796 --> 00:01:21,836 Speaker 2: heads up, you may hear some city noises in the background. 21 00:01:22,796 --> 00:01:25,516 Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed this live episode as much as 22 00:01:25,556 --> 00:01:29,836 Speaker 2: I did. I wanted to say before I started, I 23 00:01:29,836 --> 00:01:32,396 Speaker 2: think we should get this little order a bit of 24 00:01:32,436 --> 00:01:35,636 Speaker 2: business out of the way. I've scored enormous points with 25 00:01:35,716 --> 00:01:39,196 Speaker 2: my significant other this evening by interviewing you, Kate. Normally, 26 00:01:39,276 --> 00:01:43,036 Speaker 2: if I'm interviewing like the you know, hypothetically the CEO 27 00:01:43,236 --> 00:01:47,396 Speaker 2: of whatever Microsoft, she would say, oh, interesting, and then 28 00:01:47,476 --> 00:01:50,436 Speaker 2: go back to her phone. When word leaked that I 29 00:01:50,476 --> 00:01:54,436 Speaker 2: was interviewing Nate Burkas, it was like Nate Burkas. It 30 00:01:54,556 --> 00:01:57,956 Speaker 2: was like, you can't imagine the kind of celebrity power 31 00:01:58,036 --> 00:01:58,356 Speaker 2: you have. 32 00:01:58,356 --> 00:02:00,076 Speaker 1: In my home. You are welcome. 33 00:02:00,676 --> 00:02:05,676 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so no, it's huge. It's huge for all 34 00:02:05,676 --> 00:02:06,836 Speaker 2: of us in the global household. 35 00:02:07,036 --> 00:02:08,956 Speaker 3: May I just say that when I told my mother 36 00:02:09,196 --> 00:02:10,836 Speaker 3: that I was going to be a guest on Malcolm 37 00:02:10,876 --> 00:02:13,596 Speaker 3: Gladwell's podcast, or response with why. 38 00:02:16,396 --> 00:02:20,516 Speaker 2: That's that's not very nice. We're going to be talking 39 00:02:20,516 --> 00:02:24,916 Speaker 2: about travel and design and your career and all kinds 40 00:02:24,916 --> 00:02:28,316 Speaker 2: of interesting things before we get to your career. Though, 41 00:02:28,716 --> 00:02:31,356 Speaker 2: you and I are both both have the travel bug. 42 00:02:31,716 --> 00:02:35,196 Speaker 2: Because I have a theory that the travel bug is innate. 43 00:02:35,276 --> 00:02:38,356 Speaker 2: It's not acquired. Yeah to have it, you don't, so 44 00:02:38,516 --> 00:02:39,436 Speaker 2: is the design bug. 45 00:02:39,636 --> 00:02:41,196 Speaker 1: So is this all good? 46 00:02:41,236 --> 00:02:43,596 Speaker 2: So we're talking, we're trafficking, and I have a little 47 00:02:43,636 --> 00:02:46,956 Speaker 2: story about myself which I think proves this is true. 48 00:02:47,396 --> 00:02:50,276 Speaker 2: But before I tell that story, I wanted you tell 49 00:02:50,356 --> 00:02:53,196 Speaker 2: me when did you realize what is the first evidence 50 00:02:53,236 --> 00:02:57,316 Speaker 2: the world has that Nate has the travel bug? How 51 00:02:57,356 --> 00:02:57,916 Speaker 2: young are you? 52 00:02:57,996 --> 00:02:59,796 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think it was. 53 00:03:01,916 --> 00:03:05,676 Speaker 3: The first time I was somewhere without a chaperone, like 54 00:03:05,756 --> 00:03:08,996 Speaker 3: a proper chaperone. I did a semester abroad in Europe 55 00:03:09,636 --> 00:03:12,036 Speaker 3: and moved to Paris and sort of lived in this 56 00:03:12,116 --> 00:03:15,516 Speaker 3: tiny little box at the top of a beautiful old 57 00:03:15,556 --> 00:03:17,796 Speaker 3: building with a share bath fantasy. 58 00:03:17,836 --> 00:03:19,916 Speaker 1: It was amazing, It was amazing. I sold all my 59 00:03:19,996 --> 00:03:22,116 Speaker 1: clothes of spending money. 60 00:03:22,876 --> 00:03:25,396 Speaker 3: But I knew you wearing all black at that I 61 00:03:25,436 --> 00:03:27,916 Speaker 3: wanted to wear all black. Yeah, I was wearing Ralph 62 00:03:27,996 --> 00:03:30,916 Speaker 3: Lauren and that's not what no, no, no oh, yeah, 63 00:03:30,956 --> 00:03:34,516 Speaker 3: I had to to sell that. Yeah, get some money 64 00:03:34,556 --> 00:03:37,556 Speaker 3: for a leather jacket. But I was found myself in 65 00:03:37,556 --> 00:03:41,876 Speaker 3: Paris alone, and I remember walking the streets and feeling 66 00:03:42,116 --> 00:03:47,316 Speaker 3: really good, feeling like really solid, and not being afraid 67 00:03:47,596 --> 00:03:52,916 Speaker 3: and not being intimidated, and being fascinated by modern life 68 00:03:52,956 --> 00:03:55,556 Speaker 3: in an ancient place, and I think that that was 69 00:03:55,596 --> 00:03:58,516 Speaker 3: the first moment for me. And when I travel, I 70 00:03:58,556 --> 00:04:02,196 Speaker 3: don't I'm not really reaching for the sort of. 71 00:04:03,596 --> 00:04:05,316 Speaker 1: Where the guides say you should go. 72 00:04:05,516 --> 00:04:08,676 Speaker 3: For me, it's it's what is most indicative of that 73 00:04:08,876 --> 00:04:12,916 Speaker 3: place as seen through objects. So I'm in the markets 74 00:04:12,956 --> 00:04:15,396 Speaker 3: where people buy their pots and pans and the fabric 75 00:04:15,476 --> 00:04:17,876 Speaker 3: they make the potato sacks out of, and those are 76 00:04:17,916 --> 00:04:20,476 Speaker 3: the kinds of things that I'm always searching for. 77 00:04:20,516 --> 00:04:24,076 Speaker 1: But that trip to Paris, that first. 78 00:04:24,156 --> 00:04:26,796 Speaker 3: Move really to Paris, was when I knew I would 79 00:04:26,876 --> 00:04:28,836 Speaker 3: never really stay in one place for a long time. 80 00:04:29,476 --> 00:04:34,236 Speaker 2: My version of that story is we moved from England 81 00:04:34,636 --> 00:04:38,796 Speaker 2: to Canada when I was six, and there's a picture 82 00:04:39,036 --> 00:04:42,916 Speaker 2: of us about to get on the train to go 83 00:04:43,036 --> 00:04:45,876 Speaker 2: to the We took a boat, took the Empress of England. 84 00:04:46,116 --> 00:04:47,396 Speaker 2: We're about to get on the train to go to 85 00:04:47,436 --> 00:04:51,476 Speaker 2: the boat. And so there's a family shot. My oldest 86 00:04:51,516 --> 00:04:55,996 Speaker 2: brother is weeping, it's leaving the only country has ever 87 00:04:56,036 --> 00:04:59,436 Speaker 2: known all of his friends. My middle brother is clinging 88 00:04:59,436 --> 00:05:03,396 Speaker 2: to my mother anxiously. You know, it's a long ten 89 00:05:03,476 --> 00:05:07,596 Speaker 2: days on a through uncharted you know, stormy seas. I 90 00:05:07,716 --> 00:05:11,316 Speaker 2: look like someone just give me a million dollars. I 91 00:05:11,356 --> 00:05:14,396 Speaker 2: am five years old and this is the single greatest moment. 92 00:05:14,796 --> 00:05:16,996 Speaker 2: I'm like, are you kidding me? We're going to some 93 00:05:17,116 --> 00:05:20,716 Speaker 2: unknown place on a boat for ten days. This is amazing. 94 00:05:20,876 --> 00:05:21,516 Speaker 1: That's amazing. 95 00:05:21,596 --> 00:05:23,796 Speaker 2: Couldn't wait to get out of there. That was when 96 00:05:23,876 --> 00:05:25,636 Speaker 2: if I look at the foot, I'm like, oh, yeah, 97 00:05:25,956 --> 00:05:29,236 Speaker 2: that's exactly you. Nothing has changed. So I want to 98 00:05:29,236 --> 00:05:33,196 Speaker 2: go back to you in Paris. You're how old seventeen? 99 00:05:34,476 --> 00:05:39,756 Speaker 2: Did you experience Paris at seventeen the same way you 100 00:05:39,756 --> 00:05:41,516 Speaker 2: would have experienced today and now others? Were you doing 101 00:05:41,556 --> 00:05:44,076 Speaker 2: the same things that in a new city that you 102 00:05:44,116 --> 00:05:48,116 Speaker 2: do today, only without realizing why with the habits there? 103 00:05:48,356 --> 00:05:49,636 Speaker 1: Yeah? They were. 104 00:05:49,956 --> 00:05:52,036 Speaker 3: I still love doing all the things that I did 105 00:05:52,076 --> 00:05:55,156 Speaker 3: when I was that age in that city, no matter where, 106 00:05:55,156 --> 00:06:00,916 Speaker 3: I am allowing myself to get lost. 107 00:05:59,316 --> 00:06:01,476 Speaker 1: Not relying on you know, an. 108 00:06:01,476 --> 00:06:05,716 Speaker 3: Uber or a driver or whatever it is, but really 109 00:06:05,876 --> 00:06:08,596 Speaker 3: digging in and seeing the space and seeing the place, 110 00:06:10,076 --> 00:06:12,276 Speaker 3: trying to figure out how to ask the right people 111 00:06:12,876 --> 00:06:16,876 Speaker 3: where the best Chinese food is or the best croissant 112 00:06:16,996 --> 00:06:20,996 Speaker 3: or the best coffee. Like I you know, I have 113 00:06:21,076 --> 00:06:25,556 Speaker 3: this aversion to being told what to do when I'm 114 00:06:26,076 --> 00:06:29,276 Speaker 3: I have this aversion being told what to do of that, 115 00:06:30,276 --> 00:06:32,956 Speaker 3: but especially when I'm traveling, because I want to figure 116 00:06:32,956 --> 00:06:35,556 Speaker 3: it out for myself. And if a friend says you 117 00:06:35,676 --> 00:06:37,396 Speaker 3: have to eat here, you have to see this, or 118 00:06:37,436 --> 00:06:39,476 Speaker 3: you have to go to this museum or see this 119 00:06:39,636 --> 00:06:41,596 Speaker 3: historic home, I'll do it in two seconds. 120 00:06:42,036 --> 00:06:46,036 Speaker 1: But I also like to be the guy that has. 121 00:06:45,956 --> 00:06:48,916 Speaker 3: Days doing nothing and just kind of soaking in what 122 00:06:48,996 --> 00:06:50,476 Speaker 3: the culture might might bring. 123 00:06:51,156 --> 00:06:53,116 Speaker 2: I want to go back to something you said about 124 00:06:53,236 --> 00:06:58,236 Speaker 2: allowing yourself to get lost, which is nearly impossible today, 125 00:06:58,356 --> 00:07:01,716 Speaker 2: but all of us over the age of forty remember 126 00:07:01,756 --> 00:07:04,036 Speaker 2: a time when that was kind of not the norm. 127 00:07:04,236 --> 00:07:07,276 Speaker 2: It was really easy to get lost and thrilling in 128 00:07:07,356 --> 00:07:07,956 Speaker 2: this way. 129 00:07:08,156 --> 00:07:08,356 Speaker 1: Yeah. 130 00:07:08,836 --> 00:07:12,756 Speaker 2: I remember when I, as a fifteen year old, me 131 00:07:12,836 --> 00:07:16,116 Speaker 2: and my brother went to London and spent we spent 132 00:07:16,156 --> 00:07:19,156 Speaker 2: twos with my uncle and Anne. They lived just on 133 00:07:19,236 --> 00:07:22,516 Speaker 2: the kind of furthest reaches of West London. I would 134 00:07:22,516 --> 00:07:26,756 Speaker 2: get on the Parsons Green Tube and randomly get off 135 00:07:26,796 --> 00:07:31,156 Speaker 2: at a stop and walk around. I knew nothing about London. 136 00:07:31,236 --> 00:07:33,356 Speaker 2: I had never read a guidebook. What I knew about 137 00:07:33,356 --> 00:07:34,596 Speaker 2: London I knew from Dickens. 138 00:07:34,756 --> 00:07:39,036 Speaker 3: Yeah wow, And I get. I totally get that I 139 00:07:40,036 --> 00:07:43,076 Speaker 3: had the best time. You're a little bit afraid, but 140 00:07:43,316 --> 00:07:45,796 Speaker 3: it's anticipatory and you never know what you're going to 141 00:07:45,836 --> 00:07:46,476 Speaker 3: stumble upon. 142 00:07:46,836 --> 00:07:48,756 Speaker 1: You know where the coolest place, the best for us? 143 00:07:48,796 --> 00:07:50,716 Speaker 2: You know where I ended up going Without realizing I 144 00:07:50,756 --> 00:07:55,116 Speaker 2: was there until many years later. Malcolm McLaren, the founder 145 00:07:55,156 --> 00:07:59,196 Speaker 2: of the Sex Pistols, had a clothing store with was 146 00:07:59,236 --> 00:08:04,036 Speaker 2: it Vivian Westwood yeap on something road in Chelsea. 147 00:08:03,836 --> 00:08:06,156 Speaker 1: That I don't know, but yes, I remember I went there. 148 00:08:06,436 --> 00:08:08,716 Speaker 2: I was fifteen. I had no clue what was going on. 149 00:08:08,796 --> 00:08:10,156 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this looks interesting. 150 00:08:10,236 --> 00:08:13,316 Speaker 3: But you found it and it felt differently because you 151 00:08:13,436 --> 00:08:13,996 Speaker 3: found it. 152 00:08:13,996 --> 00:08:14,876 Speaker 1: It's like, you know. 153 00:08:14,836 --> 00:08:18,556 Speaker 3: And I yeah, I mean I to allow yourself to 154 00:08:18,596 --> 00:08:21,396 Speaker 3: get lost. It wasn't that It wasn't really that scary now. 155 00:08:21,516 --> 00:08:23,436 Speaker 3: I mean as a dad, I think it's super scary. 156 00:08:23,436 --> 00:08:25,876 Speaker 3: I would kill my kids, Like, what are you talking about? 157 00:08:26,156 --> 00:08:28,436 Speaker 3: There's a lowjack and your shoe and we've an apple 158 00:08:28,476 --> 00:08:31,556 Speaker 3: tag and your forehead and you know you're you know, 159 00:08:32,116 --> 00:08:33,116 Speaker 3: but I can still see you. 160 00:08:34,476 --> 00:08:35,236 Speaker 1: But I think you know. 161 00:08:35,676 --> 00:08:37,476 Speaker 3: It was just I don't know, there was just something 162 00:08:37,476 --> 00:08:41,196 Speaker 3: about being in a foreign capital and a new culture 163 00:08:41,276 --> 00:08:45,636 Speaker 3: in a place that was so old and so beautiful, 164 00:08:45,796 --> 00:08:49,716 Speaker 3: and the architecture was so special to my eye at 165 00:08:49,716 --> 00:08:52,516 Speaker 3: that age that I wanted to be lost. I wanted 166 00:08:52,556 --> 00:08:53,476 Speaker 3: to be lost every day. 167 00:08:53,636 --> 00:08:55,716 Speaker 2: Does that if we think about that phrase as a 168 00:08:55,796 --> 00:09:01,276 Speaker 2: kind of metaphor, does it also describe your professional practice 169 00:09:01,436 --> 00:09:03,156 Speaker 2: as an interior designer. 170 00:09:03,316 --> 00:09:06,476 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it describes it in that I'm really 171 00:09:06,516 --> 00:09:10,316 Speaker 3: afraid of people who present themselves as like they're mastered 172 00:09:10,356 --> 00:09:14,076 Speaker 3: a craft like I just it's the weirdest sort of place. 173 00:09:14,196 --> 00:09:17,716 Speaker 3: I've been doing this for almost thirty years now, assembling 174 00:09:17,756 --> 00:09:19,596 Speaker 3: spaces hopefully that I'm meaning. 175 00:09:19,396 --> 00:09:20,556 Speaker 1: For the people that live there. 176 00:09:20,596 --> 00:09:23,236 Speaker 3: But I am trying really hard to do that. But 177 00:09:23,396 --> 00:09:29,276 Speaker 3: it's all evolving constantly. And you know, in any creative endeavor, 178 00:09:29,516 --> 00:09:32,516 Speaker 3: if you've made decisions about how things need to be 179 00:09:32,716 --> 00:09:38,676 Speaker 3: or should be, you're missing every other sort of bright, 180 00:09:38,756 --> 00:09:41,836 Speaker 3: shiny thing you can reach down and pick up and incorporate. 181 00:09:41,916 --> 00:09:45,516 Speaker 3: And so I think, after this long in design, I'm 182 00:09:45,996 --> 00:09:49,276 Speaker 3: adept at scale. I'm adept at certain things that have 183 00:09:49,476 --> 00:09:52,916 Speaker 3: practiced is sort of refined a skill set that's a 184 00:09:52,956 --> 00:09:57,516 Speaker 3: practical skill set, but the creative, the magical, the imaginative. 185 00:09:58,716 --> 00:10:00,356 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm always lost. I love it. 186 00:10:00,716 --> 00:10:04,996 Speaker 2: Yeah, so walk me through. You're in Paris at seventeen, 187 00:10:05,916 --> 00:10:09,356 Speaker 2: tell me take me from there to your how you 188 00:10:09,396 --> 00:10:10,556 Speaker 2: became a design. 189 00:10:10,716 --> 00:10:14,516 Speaker 3: So I'm seventeen. I've sold all of my Ralph Lauren 190 00:10:14,596 --> 00:10:15,836 Speaker 3: clothes to the Lovely Kids. 191 00:10:16,476 --> 00:10:16,996 Speaker 1: What do you like? 192 00:10:17,116 --> 00:10:20,716 Speaker 2: Just briefly, in two sentences, what do you like at seventeen? 193 00:10:22,316 --> 00:10:27,356 Speaker 1: Guys and fries. 194 00:10:27,956 --> 00:10:31,636 Speaker 2: No, no, no, nay, you can do better than that, 195 00:10:31,676 --> 00:10:34,556 Speaker 2: And I still do you can do better than that? 196 00:10:35,196 --> 00:10:36,396 Speaker 1: What I like at seventeen? 197 00:10:36,476 --> 00:10:38,716 Speaker 2: Do you? If my set is seventeen year old Malcolm 198 00:10:38,756 --> 00:10:41,316 Speaker 2: and seventeen year old Nate Meat, we would. 199 00:10:41,156 --> 00:10:42,276 Speaker 1: Probably talk about music. 200 00:10:42,956 --> 00:10:45,276 Speaker 3: I was listening to like the Smiths and you know, 201 00:10:45,636 --> 00:10:49,876 Speaker 3: course so music music. My walk Man was on my 202 00:10:50,036 --> 00:10:55,676 Speaker 3: whatever discman, Walkman, whatever awk Man, and I liked clothes 203 00:10:56,556 --> 00:11:00,436 Speaker 3: and I liked history. I was interested in history, and 204 00:11:00,516 --> 00:11:00,836 Speaker 3: at that. 205 00:11:00,836 --> 00:11:02,676 Speaker 2: Age, that's what we would have talked about. 206 00:11:03,156 --> 00:11:04,996 Speaker 1: What's up we talk about? 207 00:11:04,996 --> 00:11:06,356 Speaker 2: I don't think you would have talked about clothes if 208 00:11:06,356 --> 00:11:10,756 Speaker 2: you saw the clothes I was wearing when I was seventeen. 209 00:11:11,076 --> 00:11:13,396 Speaker 2: Further ahead of me. But you came, you grew up 210 00:11:13,436 --> 00:11:14,076 Speaker 2: in Chicago. 211 00:11:14,596 --> 00:11:18,956 Speaker 3: No, I was actually raised in suburban Minneapolis, and I 212 00:11:18,996 --> 00:11:22,796 Speaker 3: split my time between southern California and Minneapolis. My parents 213 00:11:22,876 --> 00:11:26,676 Speaker 3: divorced when I was two, and they both remarried instantly. 214 00:11:26,956 --> 00:11:29,196 Speaker 3: My mother actually tried to get married before her divorce 215 00:11:29,276 --> 00:11:32,996 Speaker 3: was legal. To my dad. They went and they said, 216 00:11:33,036 --> 00:11:39,116 Speaker 3: ma'm you're actually still married. My mother was like, oh, so, 217 00:11:39,196 --> 00:11:40,636 Speaker 3: so I'll go home and wash my hair. 218 00:11:41,036 --> 00:11:41,876 Speaker 1: Yeah. 219 00:11:42,196 --> 00:11:46,116 Speaker 3: But they both remarried, and my stepfather was a radiologist 220 00:11:46,116 --> 00:11:49,236 Speaker 3: in Minnesota, and so I was raised there and then 221 00:11:49,356 --> 00:11:51,236 Speaker 3: and then I went away to school for high school 222 00:11:51,436 --> 00:11:52,796 Speaker 3: over out on the East Coast. 223 00:11:52,796 --> 00:11:53,796 Speaker 1: So I've been all over the place. 224 00:11:53,876 --> 00:11:56,916 Speaker 2: Oh I see, yeah, yeah, but you do sound more 225 00:11:56,996 --> 00:11:59,876 Speaker 2: sophisticated than I was at seven seventeen. 226 00:12:00,196 --> 00:12:01,636 Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I don't know. 227 00:12:01,796 --> 00:12:05,276 Speaker 3: I mean, listen, I don't even know if I'm sophisticated now. 228 00:12:05,396 --> 00:12:09,116 Speaker 3: My my favorite restaurant worldwide is the State Fair of Mine. 229 00:12:09,236 --> 00:12:13,676 Speaker 1: So it's just the best. 230 00:12:13,756 --> 00:12:17,836 Speaker 2: Guys, When you say you were interested in history at 231 00:12:17,876 --> 00:12:18,876 Speaker 2: that age, what does that mean. 232 00:12:19,756 --> 00:12:25,596 Speaker 3: I was interested in architecture, and I was interested in spaces, 233 00:12:25,916 --> 00:12:29,796 Speaker 3: and I was interested in a little bit in mythology 234 00:12:29,996 --> 00:12:35,796 Speaker 3: and a lot in sort of like royal palaces and 235 00:12:35,836 --> 00:12:39,716 Speaker 3: sort of aristocratic homes, and like really beautiful, beautiful in 236 00:12:39,956 --> 00:12:41,156 Speaker 3: homes in castles and. 237 00:12:42,956 --> 00:12:45,276 Speaker 1: Hotel particular and things like that. 238 00:12:45,556 --> 00:12:48,876 Speaker 3: I was interested in the intersection between history and design, 239 00:12:48,996 --> 00:12:51,476 Speaker 3: even though I didn't know that I would make a 240 00:12:51,556 --> 00:12:54,756 Speaker 3: life for myself working in design. But I was always 241 00:12:54,836 --> 00:12:58,036 Speaker 3: very sensitive to environments. I grew up with a mother 242 00:12:58,076 --> 00:13:01,276 Speaker 3: who was an interior designer, so our home was constantly changing. 243 00:13:01,836 --> 00:13:04,956 Speaker 3: I was. My job was to carry these old wallpaper 244 00:13:04,996 --> 00:13:06,676 Speaker 3: books in and out of the trunk of her car 245 00:13:06,756 --> 00:13:09,636 Speaker 3: that weighed more than I did you. 246 00:13:09,516 --> 00:13:11,156 Speaker 2: Did you like your mother's sense of style. 247 00:13:11,796 --> 00:13:14,436 Speaker 3: I appreciated it. She used a lot of old things. 248 00:13:14,436 --> 00:13:16,516 Speaker 3: But no, I mean it was French country. 249 00:13:16,796 --> 00:13:18,756 Speaker 1: She knows this. We've talked about this. Trust me. 250 00:13:19,236 --> 00:13:25,756 Speaker 3: She's because I had a sudden tuning in and I'll 251 00:13:25,796 --> 00:13:28,596 Speaker 3: be living with you and underwitness protection. 252 00:13:28,916 --> 00:13:29,756 Speaker 1: Now. My mom knew that. 253 00:13:29,796 --> 00:13:32,116 Speaker 3: But I What I admired about my mother's style was 254 00:13:32,156 --> 00:13:35,236 Speaker 3: that she she never reached for new things. She always 255 00:13:35,276 --> 00:13:39,716 Speaker 3: reached for antique furniture or vintage things. And she loved 256 00:13:39,716 --> 00:13:42,316 Speaker 3: an auction or an estate sale. And that was how 257 00:13:42,316 --> 00:13:46,236 Speaker 3: I got the bug of caring so much about assembling 258 00:13:46,316 --> 00:13:48,676 Speaker 3: interiors for other people with things that have a little 259 00:13:48,716 --> 00:13:50,676 Speaker 3: bit of history and soul. 260 00:13:51,236 --> 00:13:52,956 Speaker 2: Did your mother have the travel bug? 261 00:13:53,876 --> 00:13:57,276 Speaker 3: My mother the shopping bug. So, I mean my mother 262 00:13:57,396 --> 00:14:00,996 Speaker 3: was very intrepid. She was you know, she had a 263 00:14:01,036 --> 00:14:04,516 Speaker 3: point of view and growing up. Actually, now that I 264 00:14:04,796 --> 00:14:08,716 Speaker 3: now that you asked me that I knew it a 265 00:14:08,796 --> 00:14:12,316 Speaker 3: very age that pearls came from China, or you know, 266 00:14:12,996 --> 00:14:17,556 Speaker 3: great shoes came from France, or great leather came from 267 00:14:17,716 --> 00:14:20,516 Speaker 3: this place, from you know, the tanneries we're here. 268 00:14:20,956 --> 00:14:22,236 Speaker 1: That's probably why when. 269 00:14:22,076 --> 00:14:25,956 Speaker 3: I land somewhere now, I'm always interested in, like the 270 00:14:26,036 --> 00:14:28,716 Speaker 3: local craft, what's made there, what they do the best 271 00:14:28,796 --> 00:14:29,476 Speaker 3: job doing. 272 00:14:29,876 --> 00:14:31,116 Speaker 1: That's what I always want to know. 273 00:14:31,196 --> 00:14:33,876 Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be expensive, but like what's the 274 00:14:34,236 --> 00:14:38,356 Speaker 3: what's the best thing in Sri Lanka, what's the best 275 00:14:38,356 --> 00:14:42,076 Speaker 3: thing in Barcelona? Like what's the coolest craft in Wahaka? 276 00:14:42,396 --> 00:14:43,356 Speaker 3: What are they known for? 277 00:14:43,516 --> 00:14:47,516 Speaker 2: Yeah, you said earlier that you're very interested in investigating 278 00:14:47,636 --> 00:14:50,636 Speaker 2: the culture of a place through its artifact. 279 00:14:50,756 --> 00:14:51,636 Speaker 1: Yeah, through its craft. 280 00:14:51,916 --> 00:14:54,916 Speaker 2: It's that and what you're describing in your mother as 281 00:14:54,956 --> 00:14:57,316 Speaker 2: a version of them, Yeah, it is, it is. 282 00:14:57,836 --> 00:14:57,996 Speaker 3: You know. 283 00:14:58,116 --> 00:15:00,356 Speaker 2: My favorite this is one of my favorite things to do, 284 00:15:00,396 --> 00:15:03,676 Speaker 2: by the way, is to locate someone's passions in there 285 00:15:04,156 --> 00:15:07,316 Speaker 2: in an earlier form found in their parents. My favorite 286 00:15:07,556 --> 00:15:08,916 Speaker 2: I can I go in to total digression. 287 00:15:08,956 --> 00:15:09,436 Speaker 1: Yeah. 288 00:15:09,476 --> 00:15:12,476 Speaker 2: My favorite example of this was I was once at 289 00:15:12,476 --> 00:15:15,796 Speaker 2: a party in LA and I met a very famous 290 00:15:16,636 --> 00:15:20,036 Speaker 2: LA manager, maybe one of the most famous of all 291 00:15:20,076 --> 00:15:22,676 Speaker 2: of managers. He was famous because he was the hardest 292 00:15:22,716 --> 00:15:26,596 Speaker 2: negotiator in Hollywood. He was like the guy who would 293 00:15:26,676 --> 00:15:29,676 Speaker 2: argue with you for you know, two weeks, for the 294 00:15:29,756 --> 00:15:32,356 Speaker 2: down to the slightest detail of a contract. And I 295 00:15:32,356 --> 00:15:33,636 Speaker 2: was chatting with him and I was like, Oh, tell 296 00:15:33,636 --> 00:15:35,116 Speaker 2: me about your chither and he goes, oh, yeah, well 297 00:15:35,156 --> 00:15:36,516 Speaker 2: I am. My parents were, and I was really raised 298 00:15:36,516 --> 00:15:38,356 Speaker 2: on my grandfather. What's your grandfather do? 299 00:15:38,356 --> 00:15:38,476 Speaker 1: Well? 300 00:15:38,516 --> 00:15:41,756 Speaker 2: He was in the button business. He's like, oh, what 301 00:15:41,796 --> 00:15:43,596 Speaker 2: was that like? Well, every day after school I would 302 00:15:43,636 --> 00:15:45,876 Speaker 2: go to my grandfather's office in the garment district and 303 00:15:45,876 --> 00:15:47,716 Speaker 2: I would sit in a chair and I would listen 304 00:15:47,716 --> 00:15:52,596 Speaker 2: to him argue over the you know, the tenth of 305 00:15:52,676 --> 00:15:58,036 Speaker 2: a cent difference in a large order of buttons. Pause, 306 00:15:58,596 --> 00:16:01,956 Speaker 2: and I'm like exactly, And he looked at me like, 307 00:16:02,876 --> 00:16:03,756 Speaker 2: what are you talking about? 308 00:16:03,836 --> 00:16:06,116 Speaker 1: No connection to see it? Same thing. 309 00:16:06,836 --> 00:16:09,836 Speaker 2: He takes the buttons, and he takes the it makes 310 00:16:09,836 --> 00:16:10,836 Speaker 2: a fortune. 311 00:16:10,476 --> 00:16:13,916 Speaker 3: Exactly right, exactly so, and he's negotiing over the tenth 312 00:16:13,916 --> 00:16:15,476 Speaker 3: acent of a price of a button. 313 00:16:15,516 --> 00:16:17,556 Speaker 2: Still, but you do you do you see what you 314 00:16:17,596 --> 00:16:18,236 Speaker 2: see where I'm going? 315 00:16:18,276 --> 00:16:21,476 Speaker 1: Oh, of course, of course I'm following this. Yeah, and 316 00:16:21,516 --> 00:16:21,916 Speaker 1: you're right. 317 00:16:21,996 --> 00:16:23,676 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, my mom and I have talked 318 00:16:23,676 --> 00:16:25,996 Speaker 3: about over the years. She's asked me like, what do 319 00:16:25,996 --> 00:16:28,956 Speaker 3: you think my influence on you was as a young person, 320 00:16:29,076 --> 00:16:32,476 Speaker 3: and then obviously is in design, and it was she 321 00:16:32,556 --> 00:16:35,516 Speaker 3: taught me how to source. And I think a good 322 00:16:35,596 --> 00:16:39,036 Speaker 3: designer has to be really good at sourcing because even 323 00:16:39,076 --> 00:16:42,996 Speaker 3: in today's age, where you know, obviously, like at any 324 00:16:43,196 --> 00:16:46,316 Speaker 3: given moment, at any place in the world, you can 325 00:16:46,636 --> 00:16:51,516 Speaker 3: find exactly what you're looking for online, it's not really enough. 326 00:16:51,836 --> 00:16:55,436 Speaker 3: You have to know who makes the hand painted lamp 327 00:16:55,516 --> 00:17:01,036 Speaker 3: chains on Etsy, and who makes the Mexican pineapples in Morelia, 328 00:17:01,156 --> 00:17:03,356 Speaker 3: and then who you know it's just and then who 329 00:17:03,356 --> 00:17:05,116 Speaker 3: can put it all together for you and turn it 330 00:17:05,156 --> 00:17:07,556 Speaker 3: into a coffee table. So you know, you've got to 331 00:17:07,596 --> 00:17:10,716 Speaker 3: know the guy in Brooklyn too. So it's but sourcing 332 00:17:10,876 --> 00:17:14,236 Speaker 3: is is what she gave me, and especially a love 333 00:17:14,276 --> 00:17:17,676 Speaker 3: of vintage and craft and handmade. 334 00:17:17,916 --> 00:17:24,796 Speaker 2: We'll be right back after the break, and we're back 335 00:17:25,076 --> 00:17:29,156 Speaker 2: with Nate Burgis. We'll stop a lot of hotels, since 336 00:17:29,196 --> 00:17:32,236 Speaker 2: hotels are such an integral part of the travel experience 337 00:17:32,236 --> 00:17:34,356 Speaker 2: for so many people. I was thinking when I was 338 00:17:34,636 --> 00:17:37,916 Speaker 2: preparing for this about so what is the what's the 339 00:17:37,956 --> 00:17:41,116 Speaker 2: most wonderful hotel experience I ever had? And it was 340 00:17:41,156 --> 00:17:44,996 Speaker 2: in a little hotel in Stockholm, which is in an 341 00:17:45,076 --> 00:17:50,476 Speaker 2: old mansion. And I've forgotten what the mansion looks like, 342 00:17:50,516 --> 00:17:52,156 Speaker 2: and I've forgotten what the my. 343 00:17:52,156 --> 00:17:52,756 Speaker 1: Room looked like. 344 00:17:52,796 --> 00:17:55,156 Speaker 2: I know that it was nice and comfortable room. The 345 00:17:55,236 --> 00:18:00,236 Speaker 2: genius thing was there was a huge old oak table 346 00:18:00,796 --> 00:18:04,636 Speaker 2: immediately adjacent to an open kitchen, and when you wanted 347 00:18:04,636 --> 00:18:06,756 Speaker 2: to eat, you went down and you sat the table, 348 00:18:06,796 --> 00:18:09,516 Speaker 2: and the cook came over to you and said what 349 00:18:09,556 --> 00:18:12,876 Speaker 2: do you want? And everybody who's saying the table, it 350 00:18:12,876 --> 00:18:15,116 Speaker 2: was a small sale. Everyone who just came and sat 351 00:18:15,156 --> 00:18:18,476 Speaker 2: at the table. It was that thing. Yeah, their intention 352 00:18:18,796 --> 00:18:23,876 Speaker 2: was that they were recreating a Swedish home, family home 353 00:18:24,036 --> 00:18:26,876 Speaker 2: of which you were a visitor. And that's not what 354 00:18:26,916 --> 00:18:29,716 Speaker 2: I want from every hotel. But no, they executed that 355 00:18:29,796 --> 00:18:32,596 Speaker 2: intention beautiful. Yeah, that's what I about. 356 00:18:32,636 --> 00:18:33,396 Speaker 1: I think listen. 357 00:18:33,516 --> 00:18:37,356 Speaker 3: I think that every every hotel wants to be welcoming, 358 00:18:37,396 --> 00:18:39,876 Speaker 3: they want to be curated, they want to be you know, 359 00:18:40,436 --> 00:18:44,716 Speaker 3: intentional in their design decisions. And most definitely design does 360 00:18:44,836 --> 00:18:48,676 Speaker 3: translate and communicate sort of what are you meant to 361 00:18:48,716 --> 00:18:52,476 Speaker 3: feel chic and urban and you know free? Are you 362 00:18:52,516 --> 00:18:56,036 Speaker 3: meant to feel relaxed and calm and sunburnt like? 363 00:18:56,116 --> 00:18:56,316 Speaker 1: You know? 364 00:18:56,476 --> 00:18:59,876 Speaker 3: Of course, the furniture and the textiles and the even 365 00:18:59,916 --> 00:19:04,076 Speaker 3: the distribution of the rooms lends itself to certain activities 366 00:19:04,116 --> 00:19:08,836 Speaker 3: and certain feelings. So I have these clients in Cambridge, Massachusetts. 367 00:19:09,116 --> 00:19:11,476 Speaker 3: They're incredibly wonderful. 368 00:19:11,916 --> 00:19:14,516 Speaker 2: I was wondering what was going to come out, No, brilliant, 369 00:19:14,916 --> 00:19:17,476 Speaker 2: they're brilliant, And you said you want to be there 370 00:19:17,516 --> 00:19:18,476 Speaker 2: to the pause. 371 00:19:18,196 --> 00:19:24,556 Speaker 3: After incredibibly that they are wonderful and there They travel 372 00:19:24,836 --> 00:19:28,836 Speaker 3: probably three hundred days a year. Yeah, and the goal 373 00:19:29,236 --> 00:19:33,036 Speaker 3: was to create a home that they liked more than 374 00:19:33,116 --> 00:19:37,036 Speaker 3: anywhere they've ever stayed. They can stay anywhere in the world, 375 00:19:37,196 --> 00:19:40,916 Speaker 3: and they can stay in a five star, rent a house, 376 00:19:40,956 --> 00:19:43,836 Speaker 3: rent a villa. They can literally go anywhere they want 377 00:19:43,876 --> 00:19:47,476 Speaker 3: to go. But My assignment was to make home feel 378 00:19:47,916 --> 00:19:51,236 Speaker 3: better than that. So it's me against like man against 379 00:19:51,276 --> 00:19:51,596 Speaker 3: the world. 380 00:19:51,716 --> 00:19:51,956 Speaker 1: Man. 381 00:19:52,516 --> 00:19:55,156 Speaker 2: But you know, did this make you nervous? 382 00:19:55,516 --> 00:19:55,716 Speaker 1: No? 383 00:19:55,956 --> 00:19:59,596 Speaker 3: I was so excited about this challenge because what it 384 00:19:59,676 --> 00:20:03,116 Speaker 3: did was it allowed me to really figure out who 385 00:20:03,196 --> 00:20:06,756 Speaker 3: they were as a family, what really mattered to them, 386 00:20:07,156 --> 00:20:10,196 Speaker 3: what ceremonies they do in their home, how they spend 387 00:20:10,196 --> 00:20:14,436 Speaker 3: time together. And it offered me an opportunity to build 388 00:20:14,556 --> 00:20:19,236 Speaker 3: that tile by tile, pillow by pillow, book by book, 389 00:20:19,596 --> 00:20:23,196 Speaker 3: and create a space that dreamt a bigger dream for 390 00:20:23,316 --> 00:20:25,916 Speaker 3: them as a family than they had even dreamt for themselves. 391 00:20:26,036 --> 00:20:27,996 Speaker 3: How did you figure that out about We had the 392 00:20:28,116 --> 00:20:31,436 Speaker 3: architectural framework there. We knew it was a house. We 393 00:20:31,516 --> 00:20:33,796 Speaker 3: knew it had these many bedrooms and these many bathrooms 394 00:20:33,836 --> 00:20:37,236 Speaker 3: and whatever. But we started with a lot of imagery. 395 00:20:37,836 --> 00:20:42,796 Speaker 3: And I just watched their eyes as they commented, and 396 00:20:42,996 --> 00:20:46,636 Speaker 3: I would ask them, why are you smiling when you're 397 00:20:46,676 --> 00:20:49,156 Speaker 3: talking about that fireplace. You've never picked a fireplace in 398 00:20:49,196 --> 00:20:50,556 Speaker 3: your entire life, But what is it that. 399 00:20:50,516 --> 00:20:51,156 Speaker 1: You like about that? 400 00:20:51,876 --> 00:20:55,556 Speaker 3: And they were able to communicate, well, it feels so rustic, 401 00:20:55,636 --> 00:20:58,276 Speaker 3: and it feels so interesting, and it feels like this 402 00:20:58,356 --> 00:21:01,276 Speaker 3: house in Italy that we stayed in years ago, and 403 00:21:01,756 --> 00:21:04,956 Speaker 3: I don't know, and we really liked the idea of 404 00:21:04,956 --> 00:21:06,836 Speaker 3: not using a lot of marble. 405 00:21:06,476 --> 00:21:09,036 Speaker 1: In the bathrooms. It feels too pretentious to us. 406 00:21:09,156 --> 00:21:10,556 Speaker 3: And I said, well, what if we just use the 407 00:21:10,556 --> 00:21:13,876 Speaker 3: marble on the trim and the floor is would and 408 00:21:13,916 --> 00:21:16,556 Speaker 3: there's no in the marble and the countertops and the trim, 409 00:21:16,836 --> 00:21:18,956 Speaker 3: but we'll just go around the baseboards and the doors. 410 00:21:18,996 --> 00:21:20,716 Speaker 1: There'll be no slabs in the shower. 411 00:21:20,756 --> 00:21:23,596 Speaker 3: And so it just gradually became this dialogue that went 412 00:21:23,676 --> 00:21:27,436 Speaker 3: back and forth, and you know, the goal is not 413 00:21:27,596 --> 00:21:30,516 Speaker 3: just to assemble something that's beautiful and meaningful, but it's 414 00:21:30,716 --> 00:21:33,276 Speaker 3: to delight the people who have spent this time and 415 00:21:33,356 --> 00:21:36,196 Speaker 3: money hiring you to do something. And I have to say, 416 00:21:36,196 --> 00:21:38,556 Speaker 3: I get a text from them weekly. They moved in 417 00:21:38,916 --> 00:21:41,356 Speaker 3: over a year ago. Yeah, and then they just we 418 00:21:41,436 --> 00:21:43,556 Speaker 3: just love it here, like we just you know. 419 00:21:44,076 --> 00:21:46,476 Speaker 2: The greatest thing would be if they stopped traveling. Right, 420 00:21:46,836 --> 00:21:47,916 Speaker 2: how much do you travel? 421 00:21:48,276 --> 00:21:49,236 Speaker 1: I travel a lot. 422 00:21:50,076 --> 00:21:51,796 Speaker 2: How much for fun and how much work? Or is 423 00:21:51,796 --> 00:21:55,236 Speaker 2: there no distinction in the sense that you're always collecting? I? 424 00:21:55,316 --> 00:21:57,356 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, I mean there is a distinction. I mean, 425 00:21:57,356 --> 00:21:59,836 Speaker 3: obviously I'm going to a beach trip with my kids. 426 00:22:00,076 --> 00:22:03,316 Speaker 3: You know that I know what I'm doing there. But 427 00:22:03,436 --> 00:22:05,476 Speaker 3: all the work trips, I mean, I spent twenty five 428 00:22:05,556 --> 00:22:08,596 Speaker 3: years doing makeovers in all these towns across the country. 429 00:22:08,876 --> 00:22:10,996 Speaker 3: Some I'm staying there for her up to two weeks, 430 00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:13,716 Speaker 3: sometimes being there for forty eight hours. I always make 431 00:22:13,756 --> 00:22:16,956 Speaker 3: it fun. I want to go to the local antiques malls. 432 00:22:16,956 --> 00:22:18,836 Speaker 3: I want to find out who is the best Hamburger. 433 00:22:19,276 --> 00:22:24,276 Speaker 3: I want the vintage fashion, the coolest monument, the private 434 00:22:24,356 --> 00:22:28,396 Speaker 3: museum house, like I can't sit still. The funny story 435 00:22:28,396 --> 00:22:30,756 Speaker 3: about the first time I was ever in Madrid with Jeremiah, 436 00:22:30,836 --> 00:22:34,396 Speaker 3: my husband. We had canvassed all these museums and we 437 00:22:34,436 --> 00:22:37,516 Speaker 3: had had this beautiful lunch and then we met friends, 438 00:22:37,556 --> 00:22:41,356 Speaker 3: and then we went to another district and we were shopping, 439 00:22:41,396 --> 00:22:44,556 Speaker 3: and we came home and our feet were bleeding. So 440 00:22:44,596 --> 00:22:46,756 Speaker 3: we're like, you know, wearing the wrong shoes. Of course, 441 00:22:46,836 --> 00:22:48,676 Speaker 3: you know, even though we're well traveled. 442 00:22:48,316 --> 00:22:50,236 Speaker 1: We wanted to look cute. You want to look cute 443 00:22:50,276 --> 00:22:51,076 Speaker 1: when you're in Madrid. 444 00:22:51,756 --> 00:22:54,316 Speaker 3: So we got back to the hotel and he like 445 00:22:54,356 --> 00:22:57,516 Speaker 3: had his feet in the bathtub and just sitting there 446 00:22:57,596 --> 00:22:59,236 Speaker 3: like sort of softly moaning. 447 00:22:59,996 --> 00:23:02,036 Speaker 1: And I was on the bed. 448 00:23:02,236 --> 00:23:04,676 Speaker 3: With one of the magazines that was in the hotel, 449 00:23:04,916 --> 00:23:08,316 Speaker 3: and as I was reading this men's fashion story, I 450 00:23:08,436 --> 00:23:12,396 Speaker 3: was looking intently at all these decorative boxes and objects 451 00:23:12,436 --> 00:23:15,116 Speaker 3: and frames and like leather from the fifties and like 452 00:23:15,556 --> 00:23:18,116 Speaker 3: all this like really cool stuff. And then I went 453 00:23:18,156 --> 00:23:20,356 Speaker 3: to the back of the magazine and found the credit 454 00:23:20,396 --> 00:23:22,756 Speaker 3: and it said the name of this store. And I 455 00:23:22,836 --> 00:23:25,956 Speaker 3: called downstairs to the concierge and as he said, it's closing, 456 00:23:25,996 --> 00:23:28,756 Speaker 3: but it's actually owned by my neighbor. If you want 457 00:23:28,756 --> 00:23:30,956 Speaker 3: me to call him, he'll stay open for you. And 458 00:23:30,996 --> 00:23:33,676 Speaker 3: I said, yes, yes, please call him. I want to 459 00:23:33,676 --> 00:23:36,676 Speaker 3: see this store. And Jared finally comes around the corner 460 00:23:36,716 --> 00:23:39,836 Speaker 3: with his bloody feet and I go, you gotta put 461 00:23:39,836 --> 00:23:40,476 Speaker 3: your shoes back on. 462 00:23:41,676 --> 00:23:42,756 Speaker 2: Nay, you're exhausting. 463 00:23:43,156 --> 00:23:44,196 Speaker 1: I'm so exhausting. 464 00:23:45,716 --> 00:23:51,236 Speaker 2: Describe to me when you encounter spaces for the first time. 465 00:23:51,916 --> 00:23:55,636 Speaker 2: What's your process of judgment? Do you do you always 466 00:23:55,676 --> 00:23:58,796 Speaker 2: have a kind of reaction to it? Are you do 467 00:23:58,836 --> 00:24:03,996 Speaker 2: you find yourself frequently appalls outraged? 468 00:24:05,036 --> 00:24:07,316 Speaker 1: No, I'm never I'm never outraged. 469 00:24:08,196 --> 00:24:11,276 Speaker 2: You know, because you know I asked this question because 470 00:24:11,716 --> 00:24:14,836 Speaker 2: my version of what you do is stories, and when 471 00:24:14,876 --> 00:24:19,996 Speaker 2: a story is badly told, I am furious. I just 472 00:24:20,716 --> 00:24:25,036 Speaker 2: parenthetically wasted a good three weeks of my life and 473 00:24:25,076 --> 00:24:29,436 Speaker 2: I have no free time to smuntle watching Ozark, and 474 00:24:29,516 --> 00:24:32,156 Speaker 2: after a season and a half, I'm like, this is 475 00:24:32,516 --> 00:24:39,356 Speaker 2: absolutely indescribably appalling. How did they do this? I want 476 00:24:39,356 --> 00:24:42,956 Speaker 2: to go after the showrunner and just say, you destroyed 477 00:24:43,076 --> 00:24:45,516 Speaker 2: three weeks of my life. Do you have any idea 478 00:24:45,556 --> 00:24:48,396 Speaker 2: out precious that is to me? Yeah, but you don't 479 00:24:48,396 --> 00:24:50,996 Speaker 2: have this, so you don't know the rage. 480 00:24:51,156 --> 00:24:52,836 Speaker 1: You know the rage? No, I mean I don't. 481 00:24:52,876 --> 00:24:54,276 Speaker 2: We both virgos, I know. 482 00:24:54,516 --> 00:24:56,276 Speaker 3: I mean I have rage about other things. I have 483 00:24:56,356 --> 00:24:58,596 Speaker 3: rage about dirty laundry, but I don't have raged about that. 484 00:24:58,716 --> 00:25:00,276 Speaker 2: Okay, but I know. 485 00:25:00,436 --> 00:25:00,676 Speaker 1: I mean. 486 00:25:00,996 --> 00:25:02,756 Speaker 3: The answer to your question, though, is when I walk in. 487 00:25:02,836 --> 00:25:04,396 Speaker 3: First of all, I hate that show too. It's so 488 00:25:04,516 --> 00:25:07,836 Speaker 3: badly done. Oh my god, it's miserable. But catch them 489 00:25:07,916 --> 00:25:10,556 Speaker 3: or don't catch them already, it's the same thing. It's 490 00:25:10,596 --> 00:25:12,276 Speaker 3: the same scene every episode. 491 00:25:12,476 --> 00:25:17,356 Speaker 2: Ozon if it's so much the ox, yeah, exactly, talk 492 00:25:17,396 --> 00:25:21,116 Speaker 2: about travel, don't start another casino and then like in 493 00:25:21,156 --> 00:25:23,836 Speaker 2: like in like at the end of episode one. You know, 494 00:25:23,956 --> 00:25:26,556 Speaker 2: Laureal Lenny Wendy says, Oh, yeah, we have a spot 495 00:25:26,556 --> 00:25:27,836 Speaker 2: in Australia all picked out. 496 00:25:28,116 --> 00:25:31,596 Speaker 1: Go I know, save yourselves. Save. 497 00:25:33,116 --> 00:25:36,276 Speaker 3: When I walk into a space, honestly, it's a it's 498 00:25:36,316 --> 00:25:39,556 Speaker 3: almost like AI like my eyes open and I look 499 00:25:39,596 --> 00:25:42,036 Speaker 3: into space and I can immediately see what I would change. 500 00:25:42,556 --> 00:25:46,076 Speaker 3: And there's not one right way to do anything, obviously 501 00:25:46,116 --> 00:25:47,916 Speaker 3: in life, and there's certainly not one right way to 502 00:25:47,956 --> 00:25:52,796 Speaker 3: assemble a room or renovate a space. Marry another designer 503 00:25:52,836 --> 00:25:55,636 Speaker 3: for ten years if you don't believe. But honestly, like 504 00:25:55,676 --> 00:25:58,156 Speaker 3: the minute I walk in, and this is I think 505 00:25:58,196 --> 00:26:00,156 Speaker 3: one of the reasons why I've I've had so much 506 00:26:00,196 --> 00:26:02,796 Speaker 3: fun with real estate over the years. It's like I 507 00:26:02,836 --> 00:26:04,956 Speaker 3: can just like I walk in and it's just like 508 00:26:05,196 --> 00:26:07,316 Speaker 3: a film goes over me and I can see like 509 00:26:07,916 --> 00:26:11,276 Speaker 3: raise that, take out that beam, bring the cabinets to 510 00:26:11,356 --> 00:26:14,996 Speaker 3: the ceiling, do a floor here, change the floor there, 511 00:26:15,676 --> 00:26:18,996 Speaker 3: move this doorway over three feet and by the time 512 00:26:19,076 --> 00:26:22,876 Speaker 3: I mean most of our renovations actually, and this is true, 513 00:26:23,316 --> 00:26:26,876 Speaker 3: most of our renovations, and we've renovated everywhere we've ever lived. 514 00:26:26,876 --> 00:26:29,676 Speaker 3: We've never just walked in and been like this is great. 515 00:26:29,996 --> 00:26:34,276 Speaker 3: My little plant air. It's gonna be perfect. But every 516 00:26:34,356 --> 00:26:39,716 Speaker 3: single renovation started with going home and writing out initial 517 00:26:39,756 --> 00:26:43,636 Speaker 3: ideas and short and those initial ideas were eighty five 518 00:26:43,676 --> 00:26:46,876 Speaker 3: percent of the final product. The instant knee jerk reaction 519 00:26:47,116 --> 00:26:50,316 Speaker 3: of how the room should flow, how the space should 520 00:26:50,356 --> 00:26:53,676 Speaker 3: be laid out. Not for furniture floor plans, because you know, 521 00:26:53,756 --> 00:26:57,876 Speaker 3: we're two designers, like we move stuff around all the time. 522 00:26:57,916 --> 00:27:00,996 Speaker 1: But in terms of the actual bones of a place. 523 00:27:01,276 --> 00:27:04,036 Speaker 3: It's like a film just comes down and on the 524 00:27:04,036 --> 00:27:04,876 Speaker 3: film I can see it. 525 00:27:04,916 --> 00:27:06,436 Speaker 2: I think that's right. I'm reminded of as you talk 526 00:27:06,476 --> 00:27:11,276 Speaker 2: about it's like a point guard describing what he or 527 00:27:11,316 --> 00:27:12,836 Speaker 2: she sees on a basketball court. 528 00:27:13,036 --> 00:27:13,276 Speaker 1: Yep. 529 00:27:13,356 --> 00:27:15,556 Speaker 3: And that is a project that is so hard for 530 00:27:15,596 --> 00:27:17,836 Speaker 3: me to follow. But you are one hundred percent. I'm 531 00:27:17,876 --> 00:27:21,396 Speaker 3: sure you're right. I love a sports analogy and welcome 532 00:27:21,636 --> 00:27:24,036 Speaker 3: bring them, bring them at me, let me try the 533 00:27:24,236 --> 00:27:27,396 Speaker 3: forty yards, but let me try again. 534 00:27:27,716 --> 00:27:30,836 Speaker 2: No, No, there is a kind of no. But what's 535 00:27:30,876 --> 00:27:34,236 Speaker 2: what's funny about listening to you say that, which makes 536 00:27:34,236 --> 00:27:38,036 Speaker 2: perfect sense to me, because that's that is your gift, right, 537 00:27:38,036 --> 00:27:40,236 Speaker 2: That's the essence of what you do is being able 538 00:27:40,276 --> 00:27:44,596 Speaker 2: to see a different, a different and more interesting version 539 00:27:45,116 --> 00:27:46,316 Speaker 2: of what you're presented with. 540 00:27:46,516 --> 00:27:49,556 Speaker 3: And a version that's easier and better to live in. Yeah, 541 00:27:49,556 --> 00:27:51,836 Speaker 3: it may not be better than the original, of course, but 542 00:27:51,956 --> 00:27:53,356 Speaker 3: like it's going to be better. 543 00:27:53,156 --> 00:27:55,396 Speaker 1: For whoever lives there. But Nate, how does this? 544 00:27:55,636 --> 00:27:56,796 Speaker 2: I want to go back to this question of why 545 00:27:56,836 --> 00:28:00,316 Speaker 2: you don't feel rage? So if you go in and 546 00:28:00,356 --> 00:28:04,036 Speaker 2: you can't change it, how do you cope? You come 547 00:28:04,036 --> 00:28:07,036 Speaker 2: to my house for dinner. Yeah, and you walk in 548 00:28:07,076 --> 00:28:10,036 Speaker 2: and you do that thing, and you're like, oh god, 549 00:28:10,156 --> 00:28:12,996 Speaker 2: I was called like fifty things wrong, and you're like, well, 550 00:28:13,876 --> 00:28:15,476 Speaker 2: you're not going to change it, And now he's not 551 00:28:15,516 --> 00:28:15,956 Speaker 2: a client. 552 00:28:16,396 --> 00:28:16,636 Speaker 1: I don't. 553 00:28:16,716 --> 00:28:18,156 Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not gonna be here. So what do 554 00:28:18,196 --> 00:28:21,636 Speaker 2: you do? You sit uncomfortably through dinner just thinking why. 555 00:28:21,356 --> 00:28:24,716 Speaker 1: Is that there? No? What do you know? You know what? 556 00:28:24,796 --> 00:28:28,036 Speaker 3: Honestly it First of all, a little side note about me. 557 00:28:28,316 --> 00:28:30,756 Speaker 3: I appreciate a home cooked meal more than I care 558 00:28:30,756 --> 00:28:33,796 Speaker 3: about what the diving looks like because my mother made 559 00:28:33,916 --> 00:28:36,636 Speaker 3: nothing growing up, So let me that sounds delicious. 560 00:28:36,716 --> 00:28:37,436 Speaker 1: I don't even care. 561 00:28:37,676 --> 00:28:39,676 Speaker 2: I love how large your mother has loomed. I know 562 00:28:40,756 --> 00:28:43,516 Speaker 2: what's your mother's name? Nancy shout out to Nancy. 563 00:28:43,596 --> 00:28:46,276 Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. But yeah, she has been looming 564 00:28:46,356 --> 00:28:46,956 Speaker 1: a little large. 565 00:28:46,996 --> 00:28:50,316 Speaker 2: And you know why it is because my favorite thing 566 00:28:50,356 --> 00:28:51,436 Speaker 2: is talking about people's parents. 567 00:28:51,476 --> 00:28:51,716 Speaker 1: You do. 568 00:28:51,876 --> 00:28:53,956 Speaker 2: I didn't know I could talk about people's parents. If 569 00:28:53,996 --> 00:28:56,836 Speaker 2: you told me I could do this, I would have 570 00:28:56,836 --> 00:28:58,796 Speaker 2: made this the entire show about your mom. 571 00:29:01,196 --> 00:29:02,476 Speaker 1: You would love that. Let's just talk. 572 00:29:02,636 --> 00:29:03,676 Speaker 2: Let's just talk about your mom. 573 00:29:04,556 --> 00:29:05,156 Speaker 1: That's amazing. 574 00:29:05,516 --> 00:29:09,636 Speaker 2: Get people think moms get like too much airtime. Wrong, yeah, 575 00:29:09,836 --> 00:29:13,396 Speaker 2: way too little airtime. It's all about mom. 576 00:29:13,796 --> 00:29:15,076 Speaker 1: My mom is aware of that. 577 00:29:17,116 --> 00:29:19,356 Speaker 2: My mom actually is not, which is one of her charms. 578 00:29:19,436 --> 00:29:22,036 Speaker 1: That is terming. I can't imagine. 579 00:29:22,476 --> 00:29:26,956 Speaker 2: That's like a point guard too, my mother if you 580 00:29:27,076 --> 00:29:28,956 Speaker 2: if you talk on the phone with her too long, 581 00:29:29,076 --> 00:29:31,796 Speaker 2: she will she'll remind you you of other things to do. 582 00:29:32,036 --> 00:29:35,236 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, yeah, I can't even imagine. 583 00:29:35,276 --> 00:29:38,116 Speaker 3: Where were we You're upset that I think you're upset 584 00:29:38,156 --> 00:29:40,516 Speaker 3: that that I'm not rage full when I come for 585 00:29:40,676 --> 00:29:42,396 Speaker 3: a meat loaf at someone's house. 586 00:29:43,076 --> 00:29:45,636 Speaker 2: No, I'm trying to I'm here and we're getting back 587 00:29:45,636 --> 00:29:49,036 Speaker 2: to this series, okay, And that is I'm trying to 588 00:29:49,236 --> 00:29:56,156 Speaker 2: understand how you manage your You have a powerful aesthetic sense, right, 589 00:29:56,196 --> 00:30:00,116 Speaker 2: which dominates your life. Yeah, it's why you're who you are, 590 00:30:00,156 --> 00:30:01,116 Speaker 2: why you're good at what you do. 591 00:30:01,396 --> 00:30:02,156 Speaker 1: I can answer that. 592 00:30:02,236 --> 00:30:04,596 Speaker 2: I know where you're going about how you manage it. 593 00:30:04,716 --> 00:30:05,876 Speaker 1: There's two things. Yeah. 594 00:30:05,996 --> 00:30:09,236 Speaker 3: One, there's a time and a place for everything, and 595 00:30:09,276 --> 00:30:12,276 Speaker 3: I believe that. And so if I'm looking at a 596 00:30:12,356 --> 00:30:15,156 Speaker 3: property because I'm going to live there personally, then I 597 00:30:15,236 --> 00:30:19,156 Speaker 3: can't turn off that AI kind of you know thing. 598 00:30:19,676 --> 00:30:22,316 Speaker 3: If I'm looking at a property that somebody is paying 599 00:30:22,356 --> 00:30:26,636 Speaker 3: me to change on their behalf, then I can't turn 600 00:30:26,676 --> 00:30:29,236 Speaker 3: anything off. But if I'm going to dinner at someone's 601 00:30:29,276 --> 00:30:31,756 Speaker 3: house or I'm sitting on my you know, sister's floor 602 00:30:31,756 --> 00:30:35,556 Speaker 3: playing with my nephew, I don't care. Yeah, I just don't. 603 00:30:35,596 --> 00:30:37,716 Speaker 3: I mean, I couldn't care less. I'm like, where's where 604 00:30:37,716 --> 00:30:39,316 Speaker 3: we're bringing luncheon from? 605 00:30:39,676 --> 00:30:39,916 Speaker 1: You know? 606 00:30:40,116 --> 00:30:42,676 Speaker 3: Do you like my haircut? There's so many other things 607 00:30:42,676 --> 00:30:45,076 Speaker 3: that are you know, did you read this book? Did 608 00:30:45,116 --> 00:30:46,356 Speaker 3: you hear what happened to so and so? 609 00:30:46,516 --> 00:30:48,996 Speaker 1: Like? What really makes me Rageye? 610 00:30:49,916 --> 00:30:52,156 Speaker 2: Actually I'm glad we're finally get get you ready? 611 00:30:52,236 --> 00:30:55,196 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, here you go, mister Malcolm. Glad. 612 00:30:55,236 --> 00:31:00,716 Speaker 3: Well, now, mom, you know why what makes me ragie? 613 00:31:00,756 --> 00:31:04,956 Speaker 1: Is people who are really confident in their bad taste. Yeah, 614 00:31:05,036 --> 00:31:06,116 Speaker 1: it makes me insane. 615 00:31:06,876 --> 00:31:09,396 Speaker 3: And it usually is tied to a lot, like a 616 00:31:09,476 --> 00:31:13,716 Speaker 3: great deal of money, like a huge fortune wasted. And 617 00:31:13,796 --> 00:31:16,596 Speaker 3: I cannot stand the shape of their heads when they 618 00:31:16,636 --> 00:31:19,796 Speaker 3: tell you how special and fabulous, because they use that 619 00:31:19,836 --> 00:31:20,436 Speaker 3: word a lot. 620 00:31:20,836 --> 00:31:21,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a keyword. 621 00:31:21,996 --> 00:31:23,876 Speaker 3: If you're going to have really terrible taste and be 622 00:31:23,916 --> 00:31:26,916 Speaker 3: confident about it, you need to say everything is fabulous 623 00:31:26,956 --> 00:31:30,236 Speaker 3: over and over so you yourself apparently believe it. 624 00:31:30,316 --> 00:31:32,036 Speaker 1: But that makes me insane. 625 00:31:32,716 --> 00:31:34,556 Speaker 2: Do you want to name names at all of it? Sure? 626 00:31:35,796 --> 00:31:40,796 Speaker 3: I think that there's the reason why it's not extremely 627 00:31:40,836 --> 00:31:44,516 Speaker 3: complicated to have a career in design at any level 628 00:31:44,796 --> 00:31:49,356 Speaker 3: is because there's so much insecurity around design. And I've 629 00:31:49,396 --> 00:31:53,756 Speaker 3: tried to make that okay over the years to not 630 00:31:53,996 --> 00:31:55,236 Speaker 3: be so heavy handed. 631 00:31:55,716 --> 00:31:57,636 Speaker 1: I have my own convictions. I know what I think 632 00:31:57,716 --> 00:31:58,556 Speaker 1: is beautiful. 633 00:31:58,756 --> 00:32:02,716 Speaker 3: You know, when you're on makeovers for fifteen years on 634 00:32:02,756 --> 00:32:05,276 Speaker 3: the Oprah Winfrey Show in two hundred countries and everybody's 635 00:32:05,316 --> 00:32:07,916 Speaker 3: looking to you, the question. 636 00:32:07,796 --> 00:32:10,556 Speaker 1: Was always like, what's the trend? What's the trend coming up? 637 00:32:10,836 --> 00:32:13,356 Speaker 3: And you could hear the representative from the wool bureau 638 00:32:13,436 --> 00:32:16,036 Speaker 3: in the background and the pantone color of you know, 639 00:32:16,436 --> 00:32:18,596 Speaker 3: and not that I would decide that, but they were 640 00:32:18,716 --> 00:32:20,716 Speaker 3: just like, is he going to agree? Is he gonna whatever? 641 00:32:21,276 --> 00:32:24,276 Speaker 3: And I've always felt like all these waves, these trends 642 00:32:24,436 --> 00:32:26,556 Speaker 3: are designed to make people feel bad about what they 643 00:32:26,596 --> 00:32:29,236 Speaker 3: didn't buy at the last trend. And so my whole 644 00:32:29,236 --> 00:32:31,556 Speaker 3: philosophy has always been like, if you actually spend the 645 00:32:31,596 --> 00:32:33,716 Speaker 3: time to get to know yourself well enough to know 646 00:32:33,716 --> 00:32:37,316 Speaker 3: what you really do, enjoy what really like makes your 647 00:32:37,356 --> 00:32:40,316 Speaker 3: heart sing when you look around a space, then you 648 00:32:40,316 --> 00:32:44,036 Speaker 3: can shut out all that noise and build something that matters. 649 00:32:44,316 --> 00:32:47,556 Speaker 3: Because the hit the interiors that I've been inspired by 650 00:32:47,636 --> 00:32:49,556 Speaker 3: over the years, the ones that really mattered to me 651 00:32:50,076 --> 00:32:52,396 Speaker 3: are the ones where people just like kind of busted 652 00:32:52,436 --> 00:32:52,756 Speaker 3: a move. 653 00:32:53,396 --> 00:32:53,636 Speaker 1: You know. 654 00:32:53,796 --> 00:32:56,996 Speaker 3: It was France in the nineteen fifties and this Mexican 655 00:32:57,076 --> 00:32:59,276 Speaker 3: count decided that he was going to make all these 656 00:32:59,316 --> 00:33:02,836 Speaker 3: follies in his garden and design the house. It's called 657 00:33:02,916 --> 00:33:05,276 Speaker 3: Chateau to Grus for anyone who wants to look it up, 658 00:33:05,556 --> 00:33:07,116 Speaker 3: but like it's a real place. 659 00:33:07,436 --> 00:33:09,556 Speaker 1: And he put a royal blue rugg in the. 660 00:33:09,516 --> 00:33:12,516 Speaker 3: Dining room with Kelly Green chairs because no one was 661 00:33:12,556 --> 00:33:14,156 Speaker 3: doing that and that's what he wanted to live in. 662 00:33:14,236 --> 00:33:17,436 Speaker 3: And maybe it was because he was half from Mexico. 663 00:33:17,516 --> 00:33:21,196 Speaker 3: Maybe it wasn't, who knows, but it was revolutionary. And 664 00:33:21,436 --> 00:33:25,516 Speaker 3: you know, had he been worried about what color the 665 00:33:25,596 --> 00:33:28,996 Speaker 3: sweaters on the mannequins and Banana Republic on Fifth Avenue, 666 00:33:29,036 --> 00:33:31,876 Speaker 3: we're going to be like it was. You know, it 667 00:33:32,596 --> 00:33:36,276 Speaker 3: was inconceivable. So am I like a real renegade? Am 668 00:33:36,316 --> 00:33:40,236 Speaker 3: I breaking all these rules? Am I zahadde making buildings 669 00:33:40,236 --> 00:33:42,316 Speaker 3: that look like they balance on the bottom of a pin? 670 00:33:42,476 --> 00:33:45,996 Speaker 1: And you know, no, I'm not. My goal is to. 671 00:33:45,956 --> 00:33:49,036 Speaker 3: Make like really livable spaces that if they're designed right 672 00:33:49,076 --> 00:33:52,156 Speaker 3: now twenty five years from now, they still look great 673 00:33:52,596 --> 00:33:56,196 Speaker 3: and more importantly, they still feel great. So that's my niche. 674 00:33:57,316 --> 00:34:01,356 Speaker 3: That's what matters. And I think that's the like, what 675 00:34:01,516 --> 00:34:05,876 Speaker 3: all this loathing people with lots of money and bad 676 00:34:05,916 --> 00:34:10,716 Speaker 3: tastes and being vehemently anti train and you know you 677 00:34:10,836 --> 00:34:12,476 Speaker 3: end up with with some nice tyle. 678 00:34:12,676 --> 00:34:15,356 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, last question. Yeah, not meant to be a 679 00:34:15,396 --> 00:34:20,676 Speaker 2: downer question, But I imagine that you were sad, you 680 00:34:20,756 --> 00:34:24,196 Speaker 2: were melancholy over so Slumsley and I came to you Nate, 681 00:34:24,236 --> 00:34:28,636 Speaker 2: and I said, I will fly you tonight to the 682 00:34:28,636 --> 00:34:30,556 Speaker 2: one place in the world that will cure you of 683 00:34:30,596 --> 00:34:37,316 Speaker 2: your melancholy. Where do I take you home? Oh? That's lovely. 684 00:34:38,156 --> 00:34:39,076 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Nate. 685 00:34:39,156 --> 00:34:39,396 Speaker 3: This is. 686 00:34:45,356 --> 00:34:48,996 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this special live episode of Revision's History, 687 00:34:49,276 --> 00:34:52,796 Speaker 2: brought to you by AC Hotels. It was produced by 688 00:34:52,796 --> 00:34:55,516 Speaker 2: Tali Emlin, with Nina Lawrence and ben A d Alfh Haffrey, 689 00:34:55,996 --> 00:35:00,396 Speaker 2: editing by Sarah Nis, mastering by Jake Gorsky. Our executive 690 00:35:00,396 --> 00:35:05,516 Speaker 2: producer is Jacob Smith. Special thanks to Kira Posey, Joshua Crowley, 691 00:35:05,836 --> 00:35:10,316 Speaker 2: Brion Moreno, Raya, Anthony, Benjaminster and a whole production crew 692 00:35:10,596 --> 00:35:15,996 Speaker 2: at iHeartMedia. Not to mention Nate Berkus's shop, I'm Malcolm Gladwell.