WEBVTT - 0606FullPodcast 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:04.040 Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:06.920 my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:11.520 you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:15.520 with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.439 on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.239 at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. All right, we have 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:26.320 Rosalind Matthison in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio today. She's 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:30.800 Executive everit for International Government for Bloomberg News based in London, 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.240 but we have are here in the States this week. 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.159 We found on the last hour meth that she is Australian. 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:40.400 From some little news. What's the name of the town again, Ros, 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:45.360 it's a code Goombungee Bungee Goombungee. It's an indigenous name. Wow, 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.120 go figure. I mean, I I don't know. One day 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.680 me and Roz traveled to a remote town in Austria 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.040 to interview the former head of the FBI, James Komy. 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:59.360 Together really was that in Austria? Yeah, that was awesome. 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.680 That was such a cool I mean, you know, he 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.480 had just written a book and obviously it was like 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:14.200 comy versus Trump. But he's amazingly fascinating and also really tall, dude, 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.959 extremely tall. Yeah, explained to us, what's happening in London today, 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.080 folks forting us, we need to pay attention to a 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:23.679 vote that's going on in Parliament. What's going on over there? Well, 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.399 that's right. So it seems like enough of his own 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.840 lawmakers have had enough of him, and so they've submitted 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.520 letters calling for a leadership vote on his him leading 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:35.840 the Tory Party, which of course means his leadership of 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.280 the country as a whole. So that vote will happen 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.840 in a couple of hours today, it goes. It takes 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.800 about two hours for it to happen. They fall into 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:45.720 a room one by one and cast their vote, yeah, 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.280 your nay, and then there's an outcome. It looks like 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.400 at this point he will probably win that vote because 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:56.200 they need hundred eighty Tory lawmakers to go against him. 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:58.800 But the question is, what is the damage that's being 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:02.400 done simply by having this vote happen in the first place, 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:04.840 And what is the margin by which he would presumably 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.519 win this vote. It could be quite tight and tighter 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.679 than he would like. Can that suggests of course that 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.519 other knives will be out for him even despite the 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.960 outcome today potentially, but the base cases that he wins, 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:22.480 right because, um, his own party is bringing this vote essentially, 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.040 and it's a system that I think a lot of 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:29.720 Americans are unfamiliar with. They have this committee. It all 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.959 seems so old and weird. Um, But what if they lose. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:38.360 They're bringing on an election that they're sure then later 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.840 to lose. Well, that is the risk also from this 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.200 is he might win, and then he might decide to 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.520 call an election to try and get a fresh mandate 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:49.320 from the public or to get rid of some of 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.280 these Tory rebels. But why how could he? I mean, 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.360 they're experiencing inflation just like we are, and they're doing 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.880 very little about it, just like we are. I mean, 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.640 people are a lot of people are being driven into 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.760 poverty by these high energy praises right well, exactly in 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.160 all the polling shows that going to an election anytime 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:12.040 soon would be very self defeating for the Tories because 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.280 of all the things that you mentioned, particularly the state 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.120 of the economy, inflation, the idea has not delivered on 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.200 his promises to bring development to areas in northern England 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:22.679 UM and so on. He came in, of course in 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.840 a landslide when UM in intercalentinam with a very large 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.840 majority for a British prime minister, and that's all seemingly 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:33.880 evaporated at this point. But he may decide just to 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:38.560 go that because he is a very charismatic politician. He's 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.440 a very charismatic campaign and maybe he thinks somehow, if 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:43.600 you can call an election and get out there, he 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:46.720 can somehow rally the faithful and get enough voters back 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.120 for the Tories. But it's a very big ask given 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.160 what we're seeing at the moment in the polling. All right, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.680 let's switch gears rather since we have you in studio, 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:58.160 want to cover broad range here Ukraine, but we're not 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.680 going into our fourth month. I guess over there in Ukraine, 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.080 is there a consensus amongst the folks that really file 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:09.000 this closely how this might play out here or is 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.560 this just going to be a long, long slog. Well, 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.320 it's certainly hitting that kind of grinding more of attrition, 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.640 which we would imagine could go on for an extended period. 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:21.120 You're seeing Russian troops make incremental gains and then get 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.080 pushed back again. And then further gains, but suddenly holding 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:25.920 some of the ground that they've taken in the east 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:30.760 of Ukraine at this point controlling about of Ukrainian territory 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.200 either way, and very much entrenching themselves there. So what 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:37.080 you'll see is potentially months and months and months of 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:41.000 this very sort of like small bore fighting that's going 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.520 on on the ground. And then the question is what 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:45.440 does the rest of the world do with that, um, 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.080 even if they ship in more and more weapons, particularly artillery, 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.400 does that change the course of the war or are 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:53.720 we stuck with this for the foreseeable future. And at 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.080 some point, as you see France and Germany and other 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.480 sort of dipping their toe into the water, does the 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.839 Ukrainian president need to negotiate with with Russian the Russian 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:08.120 Russian president and does that in turn involve him agreeing 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.720 to see territory. What do we know about the casualties 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.880 that the Ukrainians are are facing or you know, even 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.279 if it just versus the Russians, I mean, do we 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:21.040 know about numbers? Do we know, um, if they're if 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.760 they're losing by a light Well, the numbers are very 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:25.839 hard to get a clear view of because of course 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.839 they're coming from either side with their own interpretation on it, 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.440 but what's clear is that both sides are suffering extensive 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.720 casualties in terms of manpower. At this point, Russia has 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.440 lost a lot of equipment as well, which has been 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.279 very difficult for it in terms of its campaign on 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.400 the ground. But just as Russia has lost all the trips, 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.480 so has Ukraine. And it's got conscriptions, so it's got 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.359 fresh people coming in. But that will also become a 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.200 problem for Ukraine the more this goes on. And because 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.400 it's more experienced fighters, of course, we're the ones who 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.000 are in there first. So what you do is you 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.440 bring in less experienced people who are conscripted um and 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:01.680 then over time that becomes very difficult for you crime 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:05.560 as well. Difficult, difficult situation. Rosalind Math is an executive 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:09.440 editor for International Government Bloomberg News based in London, but 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.120 here in the States. This week, I getting the least 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.360 briefly here in New York and head down to Washington, 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.240 d C. Rights Power. That's where the power brokers are met, 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.360 and that's where ros Mouth needs to be. I mean, 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.479 you know, there's just us here in New York and 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:27.839 some others. So anyway, appreciate that. Let's get right to 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:29.920 our next guest, because we got a lot to talk about. 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.880 Prea Misra, Managing director and global head of Rates Strategy 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.960 A TV Securities Cupria. You know, I'm looking at my 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.920 Bloomberg terminal. My tenure treasury is kind of my first 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.520 place to go and talking rates. I got a little 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:46.159 headline there. It's a three spot on. That's notable, I guess, 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.440 but it just seems like we're in this trading range 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.719 here for interest rates, and that despite the fact that 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.520 my Federal Reserve has said that it's raising rates pretty 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.920 aggressively here, So well, what do you make of that? Sure? 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.239 So thanks for having yes. I think rates are likely 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.200 to be in a range for the near term because, 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.080 as you said, the Fed is hiking. I think they 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.720 want to see clear and convincing signs in Chapel's words 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.600 of decline, and they were not seeing it yet of inflation. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:16.720 But I think what's happened in the rates market is 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.600 we're also starting to price in growth fears, which is 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.360 why I think we stay in a to seventy five 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.800 three and a quarter ten year range because when you 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:26.640 start getting to the upper end of the range, and 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:28.320 we're right in the middle of the range now. But 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:30.600 if we sell off, and I do think rates are 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.480 likely with QT to get to that upper end of 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:35.720 the range, then the market is going to get concerned 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.600 about growth fears. And at what point I interest rates 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:42.239 high enough that you start to impact intersensitive sectors housing, 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:46.200 consumer durables, you know, the savings that we're all banking 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.920 on the consumer. Those sailings are getting depleted every day, 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.880 and so I think that the growth fears prevent rates 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.600 from rising too much further out because we've priced in 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.160 a lot. A lot in terms of FED hikes have 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.880 already been priced in, so I do there's a ceiling 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.560 there in terms of growth fears that prevents rates from 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.120 rising a lot. And on the downside, which is why 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.240 I think we stopped around that. To this, inflation is 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.080 just too high, and so I don't think the FED 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.360 is ready to blink or even um sort of suggests 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.680 that it pauses. Likely I do think they won't be 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:18.840 able to hike as much as is priced in. So 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.760 we like the front end, but the long end, with 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.920 inflation high QT happening, I think that long end has 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.480 some more room to rise. How much of this is 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:30.240 I mean, obviously, if the FED is going to keep 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:35.000 hiking rates, and you know, the econ one oh one 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.160 lesson is you don't want to hold this paper because 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:40.320 you're going to be able to get something that yields 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.480 more later. Um. But that's program perspective of somebody who 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:48.920 wants UH to be clipping coupons? Right? Are they drawn 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.160 in at three three and a quarter to a point 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.719 where it kind of puts a cap on on the 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:58.800 yields that can how high they can rise? Yeah, so 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.360 you're bringing up the supply demand. I think supply demand 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.800 is still negative for treasuries, meaning you know, three and 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.800 a quarter with inflation at six eight, depending on which 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.280 measure you're looking at. Yes, coupons are higher today than 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.280 they were a year ago, but I think it's I'm 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.400 hard pressed to think that it's attractive. We're still seeing 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.160 outflows from fixed income funds. We've had one week of inflow, 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.160 so I still don't think there's demand coming from you know, 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.880 how much interest rates have risen. Where the demand is 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.680 coming from people trying to hedge for recession risks or 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:32.840 growth slow down, And so if you have a risk 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.720 asset in your portfolio, having some treasuries that will provide 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.440 that hedging property, which I have to say, treasuries were 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:41.240 not a great hedge in the first quarter, but that 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.640 hedge has come back. I think now we've growth slows down. Yeah, 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.440 those hikes are going to get priced, and so it's 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:51.280 more from a macro economy slowdown risk asset performance. That's 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.080 where the demand for treasuries is coming from, not just 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.640 from a raging stand I mean a key question is, um, 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:03.280 how quickly you see inflation coming back down to you know, 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.679 the two percent what we've decided I guess as an 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:10.880 acceptable level. Does that come down to to you know, 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:17.240 two or three percent at the end of I struggled 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.360 to say that, or we we don't even have it 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.480 at three. We have it a little bit above three 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:23.720 at the end of next year. And so that's the 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:25.800 tricky part. I mean, as much as the FED is 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.600 committed I think to price stability, the administration's committed to it, 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:34.319 there are aspects of inflation that are out of their control, food, energy, 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.600 even parts of shelter. We have a demographic shift in 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.520 housing and there just hasn't been enough creation of that 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.600 housing in the last few years. So I think, um, 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:45.439 you know, and I think this is a question, a 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.640 tough question the FED will have to answer by your 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:53.000 end is do they are they okay with inflation decelerating? 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.120 They clearly want a deceleration, but if it decelerates to 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.280 three and a half, it's still significantly lower than here 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:01.960 is at okay? Can they be a little more patient 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.920 trying to get to that two percent target over four 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.520 years rather than one year? So you know, in our 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:09.640 forecast right now, even so, at the end of this 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.240 year were four and a half on PC, at the 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.000 end of next year a little over three. But we 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.280 think the FED might be comfortable as long as it's 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.920 heading in the right direction, as long as we age inflation, 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.400 which is also an important part of this, is not accelerating. 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.360 I think, you know, their tolerance band will be tested 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.840 by the market, but slowing growth will allow them to say, 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.560 maybe we just have to tolerate high inflation for a while. 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:35.840 But it's something I think we haven't really heard from 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:37.840 the FED yet, and that that's still an open question. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.839 All right, pre Miser, thank you so much for joining us. 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.400 As always, we love getting your thoughts on kind of 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.160 where rates may be heading and what this feder reserved 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.360 maybe thinking about as we passed through the data misras 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.240 a Managing director and global head of rate strategy at 0:11:53.320 --> 0:12:00.640 TD Securities. Here, all right, let's talk side our security 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:02.720 will shift gears there. We're all putting more and more 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:05.000 as we you know, in the last two years, work 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.880 from homes, learn from home, putting more and more data 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.160 in the cloud, doing more and more with technology, and 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.839 of course that raises the concerns about data security, cybersecurity 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.480 broadly define. Our next guest is absolutely on the front 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.679 lines of that. Guilt Schwed is the CEO of Checkpoints 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.760 Software Technologies. You can find that on nastack c h 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:26.840 KP is a tick of your you put into your 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.439 Bloomberg terminal. Guil, thanks so much for joining us here. Again, 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:34.720 it just seems like your business cybersecurity is more important 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:36.800 than it's ever been as we put more and more 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.640 or we engage more and more with technology and put 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.000 more and more data in the cloud. Give us just 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:44.920 your thirty thousand foot view with where this tech stack 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:49.000 is in terms of cybersecurity. Hi, Paul, I met the 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.000 first year. Absolutely right, we are more vulnerable than ever 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.920 to cyber attack, both because we're dependent on the Internet 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:59.160 and the network so much, and also because the attacks 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.240 are becoming more more sophisticated. The software that we use 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.120 on every device, on our laptop, on our you know, 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:10.920 home TV or vacuum cleaner, each one of them has software. Unfortunately, 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.800 all that software has vulnerabilities, and the hackers do take 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:19.160 advantage of that. And and we are I think almost 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.760 all time high in terms of number of attacks. So 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.360 what's the answer. I mean, um, do you just have 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.320 to keep building a better mouse trap over and over 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:32.760 and over again? First we do, I mean our the 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.600 systems we build in our industry are all are many 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.760 of them are real time updated and they try to 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:44.080 adjust themselves all the time. We're building systems that try 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.840 to stop attacks, even attacks that we don't know about. 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.920 That using AI looks at the different patterns of usage 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.600 and when they see something that's suspiciously just stop it. 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.400 And the yes, we do have run as fast as 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:03.080 we can to top the attackers. Give us a sense guil. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.840 I think what gets some people who don't live this 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.160 every day but get some really concerns when they hear 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:12.880 about state sponsored cyber attacks. State sponsored ransomware, that type 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:14.960 of thing. It gives a sense of how that has 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:16.760 evolved and kind of what you think at all do 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:22.640 going forward. So first, many large, many advanced economies and 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:26.760 countries developed state sponsor technologies to either spy on the 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.760 enemy or even attack at time of four. The challenge 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.160 is not that we're trying just to fight our government 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.880 were not. The challenges that with technologies falls into the 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.680 hands of the wrong guys. And that's something. For example, 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.600 last year there was a devastating attack on the city 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:47.080 of Baltimore. The attack was by some foreign countries, but 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.600 not foreign countries, foreign groups from foreign countries, but the 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:54.440 technology they used was actually technology were developed by the 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.840 n say that I think about a few miles from 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.680 the same place the US and show the security agency. 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:03.560 So the challenge that we have is that this is 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:08.440 software technology, and sooner or later, almost any attack technology 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:15.560 falls into the hands of the wrong guys. Bear us 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:23.520 by publishing. Don't want to look like having some practical 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.440 difficulties there with with he was about to share way 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.480 too much truth with us, I think, and somebody hacked 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.200 his phone line. Yeah exactly, But I know this company 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.520 is based in Israel, as well. But I mean, I 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.120 just think this. I mean, we hear from everybody, um 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.280 and it's just when it hits the news every once 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.160 in a while that comes to people's attention. But we 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.480 hear companies talk about it all the time, the amount 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:51.280 they're investing in cybersecurity, because every it seems like most, 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.960 if not every company has a lot of data dependency. 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.400 I gotta be honest with you. Listening to Gil just now, 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.680 I was by the realization that technology is going to 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:06.440 be the death of us all simply, we're we are 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.600 basically engineering the end of our own world. Here. Should 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:12.720 make a movie about that. At some point, AI is 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.280 just gonna take over and you're not gonna worry about 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.400 your social secourney. Ne're getting hacked. Kil Let me just 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:19.920 ask you. I think we got you back on the line. 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.560 Here is technology going to be the end of us all? Are? We? 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.560 Are we eventually going to face our globe, our own 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:31.280 global demise at the hands of like AI and technology. 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.520 I'm actually quite optimistic. I think technology has a bigger 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:36.400 and bigger role in our lives. But if we look 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.760 at our personal safety and so on, it's much better 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.080 now than it used to be. A twenty or fifty 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.280 years ago, though the risks that we have to face 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:50.240 are different. Gil What are gen V cyber text and 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.200 why to they matter? Gen vere do what we call 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.760 Gen five cyber attack are the most sophisticated attacks we 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.800 see today. They are what we call ulti vectors. So 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:02.960 the attacks get from one place like an up you 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.560 download into the phone, which turns into something that gets 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.320 into your computer, but at the end gets the malware 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.640 into the data center of on the cloud or at 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.119 your company. They are usually very hard to spot. They 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:19.720 are usually every time they come they look a little 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.479 bit differently, so you can just say this looks like 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.680 an attack and they can create a lot of damage. 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.919 Sometimes they would hide and still the data for a 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.000 long period of time. Sometimes they would just create an 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.159 attack that all on the same minute take down the 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.439 entire hospital, or at the same minute take down the 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.040 entire nation. We just celebrate, not celebrated. We just mentioned 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:46.640 last week the fifth anniversary of the big attack on Ukraine, 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.280 not the war in Ukraine now, but five years ago 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.760 there was a huge attack. They took down the entire country. 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:57.399 So these are pretty difficult attacks to deal with. When 0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:59.720 I think that's what we need to deal with today. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.520 Al Right, Gil, thanks so much for going joining us. 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:09.760 Gil shwed there I think the longest serving CEO any 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:14.000 NASDAC company, which is pretty cool talking about um uh, 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.560 cybersecurity that in a sense, his company, Checkpoint, kind of invented, 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:24.000 you know. They started this whole firewall thing, and that 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.240 just seems like a great business to be in. I mean, 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:30.080 I just can't imagine a company over until it's all over. 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.000 I can't imagine a company saying we're gonna spend less 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.280 this year on cybersecurity than we did last year. I 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:36.440 just think every budget that comes in, you know, to 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.399 the CFO, is a higher budget for spending on and 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.639 that's good for the Checkpoints of the world and the 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:47.399 other folks that cater to that. You know. One of 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.239 the things that's definitely changed here during this pandemic kind 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.680 of a I'm not sure if that's an anticipated fallout, 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.760 but workers have a lot more leverage. It seems people 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.159 are saying, I'm not coming back to the office, or 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.600 you know, it's such a type market, I'm gonna go 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.160 leave my current job for a better paying job. It's 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:09.359 just really changed the whole dynamic of the workforce and 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.320 how and where you work. Nia set Home joins us. 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.880 She's a managing partner at set Home Law Group. Are 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.080 these things let's start just with the work from home 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:22.720 hybrid how do you do it kind of thing? I 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.320 guess companies large and small still trying to figure it out. 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.800 But it seems like the hybrid thing is kind of 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:31.960 the preferred model that's emerging. Is that what you're seeing. 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.720 I'm hearing a variety of opinions on this from the employees. 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.399 I'm certainly hearing that hybrid is here to stay and 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.639 that's what they're anticipating and what they're hoping for. But 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:45.919 a lot of business owners are struggling with the hybrid 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.679 model for many reasons. You know, the economics of it, 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.760 and of course, you know, building culture and managing teams 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:56.960 is more difficult when people are in disjointed um parts 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.600 of the country. But you know, um, RONNIEA, the thing 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:04.080 is um A lot of employees want to have the 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:07.159 hired option or even completely work from home, and a 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:13.159 lot of their old white male bosses say, no, you 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.360 have to be in the office. Um. If I want 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.840 to work from home and I am producing just as 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.560 much or even better than I would be in the office, 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.040 but I get fired for not coming in. Do I 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:29.160 have a case? I don't believe. So. As long as 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:34.880 the rule is applied the same for all employees, then 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.040 I don't think you would have a case. But that's 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:40.040 the debate right now. I work with a lot of 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.520 small business owners not you know the fortune or even 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.680 Fortune two thousand, if there is such a thing, and 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:52.720 they're not yet certain as it's a productivity and whether 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.080 it's better for employees to work from home or not. 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.560 All right? How about another issue. Employed at a tech 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:03.119 firm in Silk and Valley pandemic hits, I go to 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:08.680 Jackson Hole and relocate and they say, fine, you can 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:10.199 do your job there, but we're going to pay at 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.679 Jackson Hole level wages, not Silicon Valley level wages. Is 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:21.199 that okay? I think that is probably okay from a 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.800 legal perspective, but it is a very tough, tough till 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.240 to swallow. You're doing the same work, You're the same person, 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.159 you just move to geography. I don't think that's the 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:33.440 best conversation to have with employees. Is that conversation happening though? 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.560 Because I can see, if I'm an employer, I would 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.240 definitely want to have that conversation. It is. It is 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.880 definitely happening, and a lot of the reason for that 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.480 is because of the additional financial and administrative burdens that 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.600 come with allowing your workforce to work in states where 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.800 you may not be you know, already registered. If you're 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.280 already registered to do business there, it doesn't make too 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.880