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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norrey with you,

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Speaker 2: Vicki Joy, Anderson with us. Our website is linked up

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Speaker 2: by the way at Coast tocoastam dot com. We're going

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Speaker 2: to take calls with Vickyjoy next hour. Share your stories

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Speaker 2: with us. If you've suffered from sleep paralysis or you

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Speaker 2: have night terrors as well, jump aboard. Is there a

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Speaker 2: distinct difference, Vicki Joy, between sleep paralysis, which seems medical,

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Speaker 2: and night terrors, which seems like evil entities?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there is a difference between the two. I do

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Speaker 3: think evil entities come into play in both scenarios. Night tiers,

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Speaker 3: for the most part, seemed to target young children. It

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Speaker 3: seems to be something that happens in adolescence. A lot

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Speaker 3: of times sleep paralysis begins at puberty or hits at puberty.

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Speaker 3: This is of course generalization. They can hit it anytime,

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Speaker 3: but many people with sleep paralysis also report shadowmen, hat men,

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Speaker 3: alien grays, gargoyles, blacker than black shadows, fighters, makes demons, gargoyles,

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Speaker 3: and you name it. So we definitely see the presence

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Speaker 3: of entities in sleep paralysis scenarios as well.

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Speaker 2: Are some of them seeing entities, you know, like shadows

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Speaker 2: on the wall that the a light may be casting.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like that scenario with clouds where you look

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Speaker 2: at a cloud and you see a face and there's

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Speaker 2: really no face, but it looks like it. Is that possible.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, there have to be several things at play for

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Speaker 3: it to be a legitimate sleep paralysis encounter. There are

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Speaker 3: levels of dread and fear that accompany it. That's not

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Speaker 3: just I think someone's broken into the home. There are

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Speaker 3: disembodied voices, typically in one's head of pretty much everyone

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Speaker 3: collectively reports a feeling that their soul is in jeopardy

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Speaker 3: and that they're going to be dragged to Hell or

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Speaker 3: into the abyss, and so there's a sense that one

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Speaker 3: cannot move, they're paralyzed. There's a lot more going on.

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Speaker 3: So if it's just the saddle by the door, and

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Speaker 3: the chances are you've got a cat or a street light.

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Speaker 2: Issue, how did these vampires get into this picture?

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Speaker 3: Well, actually, I think that initially back in the day,

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Speaker 3: that's what they were. You know, we've sort of demoted

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Speaker 3: this cast of characters down to one dimensional beings. They're nebulous,

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Speaker 3: they're vague, the shadow man, the hat man, the graves,

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Speaker 3: and so they just seem like shadowy figures. But in

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Speaker 3: ancient lore and Mesopotamian law, in particular the lamashe To,

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Speaker 3: they actually had names George, and they had dentities and

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Speaker 3: personality traits, and they were worshiped even though they were feared,

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Speaker 3: and so La Mosque was dubbed the demon Lord, the

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Speaker 3: Goddess of monsters, the mother of beasts, the mistress of insanity,

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Speaker 3: and other cultures had their own version of Lamastue. There

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Speaker 3: was a Lamia and the Lolo Lombilou, and of course

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Speaker 3: Lilis as most of us have heard of. And these

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Speaker 3: were nights stalking demonesses who would come out at night

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Speaker 3: and would take the life force of women and children

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Speaker 3: and defenseless people as they slept. So in the original

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Speaker 3: backstory lore, before they became these one dimensional hat man

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Speaker 3: shadow man, these were real gods and goddesses in various

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Speaker 3: pantheons and were worshiped as entities that were real and

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Speaker 3: were considered to be gods and titans.

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Speaker 2: Now are most of these entities evil and bad? Are

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Speaker 2: there any good ones? Here?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, there can be good and bad entities

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Speaker 3: that we interact with in the spiritual realm. I mean

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Speaker 3: even you know in the Bible we have angels that

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Speaker 3: come down, and we have examples where characters would go

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Speaker 3: into the third Heaven and see the throem of God.

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Speaker 3: And so I think a better question then, are they

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Speaker 3: are they good or evil? Is are they safe or

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Speaker 3: are they dangerous? And why that's a better question is

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Speaker 3: because whether good or evil, not, any of these entities

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Speaker 3: are what I would classify as safe in the sense

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Speaker 3: that they're not our thesies. So they aren't They're not

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Speaker 3: necessarily going to think, act, behavior, emote the way that

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Speaker 3: we instinct instinctively believe that they will or they should.

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Speaker 3: So I think that we have to be careful letting

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Speaker 3: our feelings and our emotions lead us, because there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of people that encounter evil entities that experience you

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Speaker 3: fouric feelings of love and light. And then there are

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Speaker 3: people that experience good or angelic beings like those in

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Speaker 3: the Bible, that were terrified when they came into contact

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Speaker 3: with these beings. So we need a better litmus test

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Speaker 3: than how good we felt or how faith we felt

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Speaker 3: when we were in the presence.

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Speaker 2: Of one of these things, think you joy, what do

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Speaker 2: they want? What's their endgame?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think there's a short term easy answer, and

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Speaker 3: there's a more long term complex answer. In the short

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Speaker 3: term if you go with sort of the theological dictionary

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Speaker 3: definition of a lot of these entities. For the ones

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Speaker 3: that are disembodied spirits, whether they're the dead or they're

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Speaker 3: the nepheline, depending on your worldview, they have lost their bodies.

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Speaker 3: They're looking for vessels because they vicariously want to enjoy

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Speaker 3: being human. They want to re engage with the five senses.

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Speaker 3: They want to be able to touch and taste and

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Speaker 3: feel again and experience emotions. So they're feeling in their

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Speaker 3: disembodied state, they are unable to get a full sense

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Speaker 3: of being alive, so to speak. But the longer, more

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Speaker 3: complex answer to that, George, would be that they do

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Speaker 3: want allegiance. There's a reason why these were considered gods

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Speaker 3: and goddesses to the ancients, because they did elicit worship

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Speaker 3: and devoce and from those that saw them.

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Speaker 2: Can they be stopped.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely easier than most people think. This goes back into

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Speaker 3: the idea that these are vampiric entities. And just like

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Speaker 3: in Hollywood and in the romantic tales of vampires, there's

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Speaker 3: this rule, this unwritten rule that a vampire cannot bother

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Speaker 3: you unless it's given invitation and it steps over the threshold.

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Speaker 3: And likewise, if it is not given invitation, or it

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Speaker 3: has denied that invitation, or it is told to get out,

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Speaker 3: this is really their kryptonite. And this is where our

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Speaker 3: power life. They really cannot harass us if we don't

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Speaker 3: want to be harassed, and if we've opened a door somehow,

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Speaker 3: we only need to figure out how to close that door.

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Speaker 2: I noticed that you dedicate your book to one of

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Speaker 2: our guests, Rusts Dar, who passed away a couple of

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Speaker 2: years ago. Good He was a good guy.

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Speaker 1: Good guy.

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Speaker 3: He was a great guy and a good friend. I

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Speaker 3: miss him.

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Speaker 2: When you were taking Bible studies at the university, did

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Speaker 2: you ever expect that you'd be dealing with these kinds

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Speaker 2: of entities?

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Speaker 3: Not at all? In fact, Swords, It's funny. I remember

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Speaker 3: one Bible class in particular where they were kind of

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Speaker 3: starting to go into the you know, the fringes of

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Speaker 3: you know, probably spiritual warfare or something. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: And because of my experiences with sleep paralysis, I raised

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Speaker 3: my hand and I said, well, what about the incubus

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Speaker 3: and the succubist? And my professor gave me this very

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Speaker 3: blank look, and it became very clear that no one

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Speaker 3: in the room, including the professor, had any idea what

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Speaker 3: I was talking about. And I had to kind of

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Speaker 3: tucktail and back slowly out of the room. After that one,

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Speaker 3: people thought I was pretty much a nutcase.

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Speaker 2: Give me an example, Vicky Joey. Let's deal with sleep

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Speaker 2: paralysis first, and then we'll deal with night terror second.

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Speaker 2: Of an individual who had sleep paralysis as they were

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Speaker 2: going to bed. Then, how have they told you their story?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I heard a million of them, George. I love

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Speaker 3: it when people say you never heard anything like this,

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Speaker 3: and it's usually the twentieth time I've heard it. That's

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Speaker 3: not to diminish the experience, because for anyone who's had

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Speaker 3: it as terrifying, but most people it's really interesting, George.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people will even have a premonition before

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Speaker 3: they go to bed that it's going to happen. A

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Speaker 3: lot of people talk about this, and of course the

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Speaker 3: scientific explanation of that is, well, you become a self

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Speaker 3: fulfilling prophecy, because if you're dwelling on it and fearing it,

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Speaker 3: it's going to happen. But it's a very strange thing

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Speaker 3: that unless it's happened to you, you won't understand it.

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Speaker 3: But for those people who are unfortunately experienced in this area,

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Speaker 3: the torment actually starts before you even fall asleep, and

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Speaker 3: then when you go to sleep, it can start in

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Speaker 3: the dream realm, so you're having a nice, normal, sweep

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Speaker 3: dream and then all of a sudden, these entities enter

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Speaker 3: into the dream world and most of us will say,

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Speaker 3: oh no, not again, And so the torment can actually

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Speaker 3: last well beyond the actual five or ten minutes that

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Speaker 3: you're in the room struggling to wake up.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting take. Now, would you say night terrors are

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Speaker 2: worse than sleep paralysis episodes?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a great question. I've never had nighttares, but

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Speaker 3: I've talked to people who do, and I guess the

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Speaker 3: advantage to night tares is by the time you wake up,

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Speaker 3: you have no memory of it. You usually are being

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Speaker 3: told by a family member who you woke up that

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Speaker 3: it happened. But even that can be perplexing because that's

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Speaker 3: confusing when you're being told all of these things are

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Speaker 3: happening to you that you have no memory of. And

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Speaker 3: I suppose that is kind of one thing that they

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Speaker 3: have in common with the uf with the UFO experiencers,

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Speaker 3: because they've got some missing time and they understand that

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Speaker 3: something's happened, but they don't necessarily remember. So the traumatic

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Speaker 3: thing about the sleep paralysis is you kind of remember

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Speaker 3: every second of it, and it can affect then your

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Speaker 3: lack of desire to go to sleep the next night,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. So I guess there's give and take. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if someone asked me which one would you prefer, it

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Speaker 3: be kind of an ironic wager because no one would

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Speaker 3: prefer either one. But I think the danger in both

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Speaker 3: of them is whether the experiences are remembered or they're not,

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Speaker 3: whether they're traumatic or they're not. I think that there's

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Speaker 3: other things going on during these experiences that attach or

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Speaker 3: piggyback from the ass for realm into the physical realm,

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Speaker 3: and that I think is what's dangerous about it is

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Speaker 3: the part of the experience that we remember isn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: the whole of the experience, and so if someone is

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Speaker 3: trying to deal with getting rid of it, or they're

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Speaker 3: trying to close doors, or they're trying to make their

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Speaker 3: peace with God, or whatever they are doing to rid

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Speaker 3: themselves of this harassment. They probably don't even have the

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Speaker 3: whole story of as to what's gone on with them,

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Speaker 3: and that's where it gets mysterious, and that's where it

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Speaker 3: gets difficult to really get to the bottom of it,

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Speaker 3: because I think that there's aspects of this experience ants

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Speaker 3: that is, like in the UFO encounters, is wiped from.

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Speaker 2: Our memory of the two episodes, sleep paralysis and night terrors.

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Speaker 2: Are they just both bad or is there one worse

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Speaker 2: than the other?

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Speaker 3: I think that they are both traumatic experiences for the

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Speaker 3: people that experience them. I think with a lot of

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Speaker 3: people who have nighttares, it's many times it's accompanied by sleepwalking.

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Speaker 3: So even if they don't necessarily remember the dream or

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Speaker 3: they don't remember screaming, a lot of times they'll wake

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Speaker 3: up having slept walk and they'll be disoriented, and it's

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Speaker 3: especially terrifying when they've made their way out of the house.

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Speaker 3: I had a close family member who had nighttares and

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Speaker 3: would sleepwalk and was found out in the street quite often.

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Speaker 3: Many people who have talked to me, have said that

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Speaker 3: mom and dad would find them in the front yard

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Speaker 3: or down the street. So that's kind of what makes

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Speaker 3: nighttaars a little risky and dangerous. But I think that

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Speaker 3: the things that make it most dangerous, it's not that

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Speaker 3: you're going to die in your sleep or or something

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Speaker 3: like that. You know, the horror movies like to make

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Speaker 3: it out to be like, you know, Dracula is going

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Speaker 3: to come and suck all your blood, or you're going

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Speaker 3: to die or something. The side effects of these experiences

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Speaker 3: that are the most kind of depleting are the fact

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Speaker 3: that there are attachments that come into the physical realm

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Speaker 3: with you. And that's what most people who call me

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Speaker 3: are complaining about, is the exhaustion and the mental and

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Speaker 3: the physical ailments, and the confusion and the torment that

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Speaker 3: is following them into the physical realm when.

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Speaker 2: You're having a nightmare. Is it possible you're having night terrors.

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Speaker 3: It's definitely possible. But again, most people with night tears

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Speaker 3: do not have a memory of it, So if they're

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Speaker 3: having a nightmare, they're probably not remembering the dream either,

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Speaker 3: or they would say, you know, hey, I don't remember

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Speaker 3: screaming or sleepwalking but I do remember having a bad dream,

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Speaker 3: and most of them don't even report remembering having a

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Speaker 3: bad dream.

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Speaker 2: If these night terrors are the real deal, and these

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Speaker 2: entities are visiting people, how do you get rid of them?

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Speaker 3: That is that's the sixty four thousand dollars question, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: And there's not a cookie cutter scenario because so many

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Speaker 3: people are experiencing these things for different reasons. Some people

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Speaker 3: are willingly and consciously opening the doors and some are not.

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Speaker 3: Some are really perplexed as to why this is happening

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Speaker 3: to them. And so basically, for those that are are

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Speaker 3: willfully seeking this out, I would say, you know, if

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Speaker 3: you don't want twenty raccoons on your back porch every night,

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Speaker 3: stop giving them my dogs, right, you know, It's like,

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Speaker 3: stop doing the things that draw them. But it's not

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Speaker 3: always that easy, because there are a lot of people

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Speaker 3: that have no idea why this is happening. And so

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Speaker 3: what I try to do when I counsel people on

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Speaker 3: the phone is let's find the source of these episodes,

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Speaker 3: and let's get to the source and see what door

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Speaker 3: got opened and what we can do to close the door.

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Speaker 3: And this can be a multitude of things, George, and

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Speaker 3: not all of them are the obvious ones. You know,

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Speaker 3: if you go and you talk to a priest or

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Speaker 3: a past or, they're going to say you open the

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Speaker 3: door because of sin, or you played with the Ouiji border.

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Speaker 3: The common answers that you get. But it doesn't even

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Speaker 3: have to be anything that complicated, George. It can be trauma,

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Speaker 3: it can be mental illness, psychotropic medication. It can be bloodlines,

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Speaker 3: it can be ancestral things I'm done in the past.

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Speaker 3: It can have to do with the home that you've

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Speaker 3: moved into and the activity that's been there. So I

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Speaker 3: try to work with everybody on an individual basis when

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Speaker 3: they contact me, because no two stories are alike.

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