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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants Hut.

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Speaker 2: That's not Giants.

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Speaker 3: Dont get out of my Giants bubble. Gim me some jobs.

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Speaker 1: Part of the Giants podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: Let's roll. Welcome to the Giants Huddle Podcast, brought to

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Speaker 2: you by Citizens, the official bank of the New York Giants.

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Speaker 3: I'm Paul Tatino. Here.

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Speaker 2: Super Bowl champions Sean O'Hara. The Giants are coming off

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Speaker 2: of a twenty four to three loss at home to

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Speaker 2: the Seattle Seahawks on Monday Night Football.

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Speaker 3: Uh, Sean, I think as you go.

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Speaker 2: Forward with a one in three record, obviously the Giants

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Speaker 2: are going to be grasping at whatever positives they might

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Speaker 2: have been able to glean as they prepare for next

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Speaker 2: week's game against the Miami Dolphins, or should I say

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Speaker 2: this Sunday's game. But what I want to go to

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Speaker 2: as we try to do that, is to talk about

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Speaker 2: the defensive effort. Uh. There was a pick six by Seattle.

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Speaker 2: There was also a recovery inside the Giants ten that

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Speaker 2: they turned into a touchdown. So defensively, I thought the

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Speaker 2: Giants really started to play much closer to their answering

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Speaker 2: the call of coordinator Wink Martindale, who last week really

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Speaker 2: challenged his guys to step it up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I like that we're starting off with some positive stuff.

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Speaker 1: I think everybody needs a little positivity right now. You know, obviously,

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Speaker 1: you know for Giants fans and everything that they feel

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Speaker 1: like the sky is falling. It's not, I assure you,

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Speaker 1: But to your point, I thought they did a really

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Speaker 1: good job against Seattle this run game. And Kenneth Walker

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Speaker 1: is a fierce runner, and he forced fifteen miss tackles

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Speaker 1: the week before by himself, so that was definitely going

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Speaker 1: to a point of emphasis. And as you mentioned week,

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Speaker 1: Martindale said, they went back to a new practice. They

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Speaker 1: worked on stepping on their toes with tackling, they worked

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Speaker 1: on defending the stiff arm, and in the first half

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Speaker 1: they held Seattle to thirty yards rushing. It was three

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Speaker 1: yards of carry, so that was not the issue whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: They definitely improved in that aspect, and I thought they

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Speaker 1: bought up the run game for the most part throughout

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Speaker 1: the game, and then in the fourth quarter there was

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Speaker 1: a couple of big runs, but the one time that

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Speaker 1: it kind of reared its ugly ahead again was on

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Speaker 1: that Noah Fan big play where they could not force

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Speaker 1: him out of bound, so that's where it showed up.

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Speaker 1: But definitely some improvement there. We also there was two

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Speaker 1: sacks by Kevon Thibodeau. I don't think there was enough

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Speaker 1: consistent pressure on Gino Smith, and I think they still

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Speaker 1: need to continue to do a better job of pressure.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: You know, Keaveon Thibodau got the two sacks, but there

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Speaker 1: were really only three other quarterback hits in addition to that,

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Speaker 1: So more consistent pressure. And you know, ironically, we have

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Speaker 1: not gotten as much intir pressure as I would have

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Speaker 1: thought at this point in the season from both Dexter

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Speaker 1: Lawrence and Leonard Williams. So that's something that I think

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Speaker 1: they can definitely improve on. But I thought the defense, Listen,

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Speaker 1: the defense played well enough that the Giants were in

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Speaker 1: this game. They had a chance to win this football game,

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Speaker 1: and certainly you mentioned the pick six doesn't help. You know,

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Speaker 1: they got put out there on a short field with

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Speaker 1: the fumble two, So I thought they responded really well

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Speaker 1: and really DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett did not They

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Speaker 1: didn't explode.

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Speaker 3: They didn't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they didn't you know, really take over like you

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Speaker 1: kind of go into it saying, hey, they have the

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Speaker 1: ability to do so. I thought the secondary did a

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Speaker 1: pretty good job from that standpoint. There was a couple

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Speaker 1: of penalties. I think the penalties are probably the one

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Speaker 1: thing that they all, you know, leave that game saying

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Speaker 1: we've got to do better with that. Dori Jackson had one,

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Speaker 1: you know, the question we'll call you know. I think

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Speaker 1: the one on him on the big play, you know,

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Speaker 1: I thought that was that should have been a no call.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was a bad penalty. But we're not

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Speaker 1: here to talk about the Zebras, even though two weeks

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Speaker 1: in a row now they've they've counted us.

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Speaker 2: I think Thibodeaux would love to have had that interception.

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Speaker 2: It would have been a thirty five yard picker.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that would have been had a boy that was right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would have been special. That was JJ Watt t

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Speaker 1: J Watt.

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Speaker 3: Like, Yeah, that's a game.

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Speaker 2: That's a play where you need to play above the

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Speaker 2: exes and the os. It's a tough play to make,

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Speaker 2: a very I mean, Ocu Minura used to make athletic

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Speaker 2: plays like that all the time. JPP used to do that,

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Speaker 2: and Thibodeau was in position to make it would have

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Speaker 2: been a spectacular play, but when things aren't going well,

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Speaker 2: that's the kind of game changing play that can turn

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Speaker 2: the tide for you. And you know, last year he

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Speaker 2: probably catches it and goes into the end zone. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this year, with things not going well, it did not happen.

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Speaker 2: I do like the first of his sacks, he and

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Speaker 2: o Jelarry almost met old Ja Lowry actually forced the

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Speaker 2: quarterback up a little bit to step up, and then

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Speaker 2: Thibodeau nailed them. And that's the kind of by play

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Speaker 2: that they want from.

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Speaker 3: Those edge rushers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no doubt you want those guys, you know,

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Speaker 1: just hauling butt off the edge and forcing that quarterback

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Speaker 1: to step up and hopefully he's stepping up into that

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Speaker 1: interior pressure as well. There's nowhere to go. So it

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Speaker 1: was definitely good to see that. I think defensively, look,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about more pressure and pressure on the quarterback.

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Speaker 1: Not only is it important just in the game and

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Speaker 1: being physical with the quarterback, but pressure is what creates turnovers.

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Speaker 1: Giants still don't have an interception on the season, the

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Speaker 1: only team in the NFL, and that's directly correlated to

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Speaker 1: a lack of pressure. Yeah, so that needs to you know,

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Speaker 1: this is a perfect week for that to uh, all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden go in the other direction.

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Speaker 2: There's one number here and I don't I know if

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Speaker 2: you had a chance to really dissect it, and it's

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Speaker 2: a positive number. But three for twelve on third down

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Speaker 2: for the Seahawks offensively, What was it on third down

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Speaker 2: that the Giants were doing so incredibly well to come

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Speaker 2: up with a number like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think they did a pretty good job

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Speaker 1: in coverage, you know. I think Gino Smith was running

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Speaker 1: around a lot. I mean he was scrambling a lot

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Speaker 1: more than you normally would see him, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's an indicator of, you know what, they were doing

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Speaker 1: a really good job in coverage, and his first and

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Speaker 1: second read wasn't necessarily there. So they did a great job.

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Speaker 1: I mean, three for twelve on third down, Gino Smith

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Speaker 1: threw for one hundred and twenty seven yards. They helped

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Speaker 1: Kenneth Walker to seven to nine rushing yards. If you

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Speaker 1: would have told me those three things before the game,

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Speaker 1: I would have said the Giants gueld a win, sure,

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Speaker 1: But yet it didn't happen. And that's because of the turnovers.

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Speaker 1: And of course you throw a pick six, you know,

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Speaker 1: that was a fourteen point swing because that could have

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Speaker 1: been a touchdown to Darren Waller in the back of

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Speaker 1: the end zone, and instead it goes the other way.

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Speaker 1: So that fourteen point swing ended up being the biggest

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Speaker 1: factor of the game.

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Speaker 4: You're ready for a change. Payday comes up, relieve with citizens,

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Speaker 4: so go to that retreat. Knew you moved to the country.

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Speaker 4: Now you're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. Are

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Speaker 4: you ready for all that life brings?

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Speaker 2: She addled two hundred and eighty one yards of total offense.

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Speaker 3: So you're right.

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Speaker 2: If you just isolated a bunch of these numbers and said,

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Speaker 2: going in, is this going to work out well for

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Speaker 2: the Giant, she would have.

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Speaker 3: Said yes, yeah, you know.

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Speaker 1: Not the eleven sacks though.

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Speaker 2: No, that's certainly one of the numbers that that was

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Speaker 2: not very good.

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Speaker 1: I think that's happened in four decades, Paul.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, tell me about it. Bobby Ocarake in particular.

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Speaker 2: I know he had a mistackle on the fan big play,

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Speaker 2: which I know he wants back. But but I will

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Speaker 2: say that was more of the Bobby Ocaake that we

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Speaker 2: saw with the Indianapolis Colts and the reason why they

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Speaker 2: brought him he was a free agent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought he had a phenomenal game, probably maybe

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Speaker 1: his best game as a Giant thus far tackles for

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Speaker 1: a loss. You know that one play where everybody thought

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Speaker 1: that Kenneth Walker didn't hit the ground and went scampered down.

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Speaker 1: They ruled a touchdown but ended up being down. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that was great middle linebacker play. And I think we

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Speaker 1: saw the potential of Bobby ocarake and we saw the

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Speaker 1: impact he could have in the run game.

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Speaker 2: There were two plays he made. In fact, on the

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Speaker 2: last series of the first half, Seattle had a fourteen

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Speaker 2: to three league Giants go three and out and with

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Speaker 2: fifty three seconds left, the Seahawks take over at their own.

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Speaker 3: Eleven and they called their timeouts. They called one timeout.

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Speaker 2: Giants called the couple because o'karake came up with two

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Speaker 2: stops there and even though they wound up being a

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Speaker 2: penalty on the punt and the Seahawks kept the ball,

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Speaker 2: that was important because at that point, fourteen to three,

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Speaker 2: you're going into the locker room and Seattle's going to

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Speaker 2: get the ball to start the third quarter. The Giants

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Speaker 2: could not afford to give Seattle a double dip there

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Speaker 2: because you could have just let the horse out of

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Speaker 2: the barn, and they kept the game. The defense that

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Speaker 2: okri Ga in particular, kept the game at least within reason.

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Speaker 3: There, and I gave o'karek a lot of credit for that.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's turn to offense for a minute, and folks,

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Speaker 2: the Giants huddle has brought to you by Citizens, the

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Speaker 2: official bank of the New York Giants from game every day.

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Speaker 2: Citizens is made ready for Giants fans with insights, guidance,

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Speaker 2: and solutions.

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Speaker 3: Learn more at citizens bank dot com.

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Speaker 2: There's not a whole lot to say good about the offense.

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Speaker 2: The run game didn't get going. The offensive line, which

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Speaker 2: is really banged up, had trouble throughout the entire evening.

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Speaker 2: Daniel Jones had a bad game. It happens. You're not

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Speaker 2: gonna play well every single week. And I wonder, though, Sean,

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Speaker 2: in that huddle, how difficult is it as you're trying

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Speaker 2: to navigate what's going on and the floodgates are opening

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Speaker 2: up for guys in the huddle to maintain that positivity

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Speaker 2: and to try to keep things going well.

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Speaker 1: It's tough. You're looking for some rhythm, you're looking for Hey,

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Speaker 1: let's get a drive together and kind of build the confidence.

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Speaker 1: But I'll disagree with your statement that Danie Jones had

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Speaker 1: a bad game. I feel like quarterbacks get all the blame,

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Speaker 1: They get all the fame, and I look at the

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Speaker 1: offensive line. The reason why Daniel Jones looks like he's

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Speaker 1: running for his life is because he is. I don't

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Speaker 1: put that on Daniel Jones. That's not like he can't

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Speaker 1: block and throw. So I think Daniel Jones is trying

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Speaker 1: to do as best he can given what's going on

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Speaker 1: around him, and he's a product of his environment. Quarterback,

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Speaker 1: all quarterbacks are. You show me a quarterback that has

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Speaker 1: an offensive line that can't protect, and I'll show you

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Speaker 1: a quarterback that doesn't trust the pocket, that is playing

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Speaker 1: with one eye on the defensive line and one eye

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Speaker 1: on the secretary. You can't play quarterback like that. Did

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Speaker 1: he have a bad throw? The pick six? Absolutely is.

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Speaker 1: That was a decision. That was just a bad decision.

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Speaker 1: That's one bad play. I don't think that dictates the

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Speaker 1: whole night. I thought Daniel Jones did a great job

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Speaker 1: buying time with his legs yet again, and that's really

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Speaker 1: kind of become one of his biggest assets. I know

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Speaker 1: something a little different about Daniel Jones on Monday night.

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Speaker 1: I thought he was scrambling to throw the ball a

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Speaker 1: lot more in this game than we've seen in the past,

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Speaker 1: where he breaks the pocket and immediately tucks it and

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Speaker 1: just starts running and says, I'm going for it. There

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Speaker 1: were a couple of times where I think we were

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Speaker 1: all saying, run, just run it, and he's still looking

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Speaker 1: waiting for somebody to get open. So it's twofold. Look,

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Speaker 1: we could sit here and beat up on the offensive line,

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Speaker 1: and rightfully so. I think Bobby Johnson, if he was

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Speaker 1: sitting right next to me, he would say, look, we

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Speaker 1: have to play better, and you know, there's no other choice.

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Speaker 1: They are banged up. They came into this game banged up. No,

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Speaker 1: Andrew Thomas has been huge. He's the best lineman on

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Speaker 1: this team. He's a pro bolt left tackle. He proved

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Speaker 1: himself to be an elite left tackle last season. And

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Speaker 1: not having him the ripple effect that it's created, josh

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Speaker 1: A Zudu is playing out of position. He's a guard,

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Speaker 1: he's not a tackle. He's playing left tackle. And you

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Speaker 1: know what, he had a couple of bad plays as well,

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Speaker 1: you know, you've got Brent Brederson who's filling in for

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Speaker 1: John Michael Schmid' at center, Shane lem Muse in at guard,

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Speaker 1: then Glewinsky comes in at guard. So that constant turnover

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Speaker 1: at the offensive line position creates the lack of chemistry

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Speaker 1: and it makes it tough to pass off twists. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's really what we're seeing right now, and

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Speaker 1: defenses know it, so they're attacking it. So that's issue

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Speaker 1: number one. The protection needs to be better. But the

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Speaker 1: issue number two is if Daniel Jones escapes the pocket

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Speaker 1: and he's running around looking for somebody to get open,

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Speaker 1: somebody has to get open. Like the fact that nobody

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Speaker 1: could get open against the Seattle Seahawks defense, which has

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Speaker 1: been extremely poors through the first three weeks of the season.

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Speaker 1: Think about this. The Seattle Seahawks in every single game

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Speaker 1: leading up to this Monday night game against the Giants

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Speaker 1: had given up a three hundred yard passer and every

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Speaker 1: single game, and a one hundred yard receiver in every game.

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Speaker 1: Andy Dalton the week before threw for three hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty one yards against this Seahawks defense. Adam Thielen, who's

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Speaker 1: forty five years old had eleven catches for one hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty five yards. So this defense was giving up

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Speaker 1: big chunk plays and a lot of those plays came

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Speaker 1: when Andy Dalton scrambled outside of the pocket, bought time.

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Speaker 1: They're a zone defense. They played cover three. There are holes,

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Speaker 1: there are spaces, and yet nobody could find a way

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Speaker 1: to get open in these zone coverages. And I think that,

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Speaker 1: coupled with the lack of protection up front, is really

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Speaker 1: what was the recipe for a disastrous night in eleven sacks.

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Speaker 4: You loved turf, you're good at it, so you start

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Speaker 4: a turf biz. Business grows, your savings grow, become the

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Speaker 4: most celebrated name in terms are you ready.

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Speaker 1: For all that life rings?

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Speaker 2: And you get the conduit between the lack of protection

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Speaker 2: with the fact that Darren Waller told the media after

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Speaker 2: the game he was forced to stay in the chip

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Speaker 2: an awful lot.

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Speaker 3: And that's a guy who you want in a route.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, everybody says, well, hey, look, do something

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Speaker 1: hell about the office line.

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Speaker 3: They did.

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Speaker 1: They called a double chip, where you have both tight

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Speaker 1: ends on either side helping the tackles, all right, and

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Speaker 1: they would chip those defensive ends on their way out

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Speaker 1: and that was against the four man rush. So what

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Speaker 1: does that do? Basically, that takes two receivers out of

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Speaker 1: your immediate pass protection and all of a sudden, now

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Speaker 1: that gives that defense, you know, only two or three

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Speaker 1: guys to account for, and then they're a little bit later.

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Speaker 1: So that definitely. Look, you can do that, you can chip,

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Speaker 1: and you can help your tackles, but it affects your

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Speaker 1: passing game because you don't have another guy out there

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Speaker 1: to stretch the field.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we're running out of time, but I want to

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Speaker 2: go to one other issue here, and that is the

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Speaker 2: brotherly shove or the tush push, whatever you want to

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Speaker 2: call that play.

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Speaker 3: Which of course the Eagles have popularized with.

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Speaker 2: The quarterback sneak and having other players from the back

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Speaker 2: push him forward into the scrum. The Giants got two

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Speaker 2: players hurt on that play yesterday in the game. It

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Speaker 2: was a fourth down play, they did not convert the

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Speaker 2: fourth and one Schmids now has himself a shoulder. We

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Speaker 2: know Bellinger is also banged up, was banged up even

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Speaker 2: going into the game. What is your stance on that?

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Speaker 2: Because the Competition Committee during the offseason discussed it, thought

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Speaker 2: about outlawing the play. They wound up keeping it in.

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Speaker 2: I wonder about the validity of the play from a

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Speaker 2: safety perspective. We now know the Giants got two guys

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Speaker 2: hurt on it. Is it, in your mind, a safe

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Speaker 2: play or is it something that should come under the

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Speaker 2: umbrella of the league trying to omit plays that are

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Speaker 2: going to get players injured.

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Speaker 1: Football is not a safe sport. I'm tired of a

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Speaker 1: whole safe play. No, it's a quarterback sneak. Yes, it

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Speaker 1: should be in the game. It's a part of the game.

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Speaker 1: You're trying to get one yard, and I have no

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Speaker 1: problem whatsoever with that quarterback sneak where you're pushing from behind. Look,

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Speaker 1: the Philadelphi Eagles ran it twenty five thousand times last year.

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Speaker 1: Everybody in the league's doing that now because it's the

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Speaker 1: best way to get a yard. And the fact that

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Speaker 1: the Giants couldn't execute it to me, like, there's no

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Speaker 1: excuse for that. Now they need more of a push

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Speaker 1: up front. The only way that play works is if

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Speaker 1: the offensive line keep their feet and you got to

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Speaker 1: keep driving, and it almost kind of becomes like a

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Speaker 1: wedge like a stampede, and you just have to surge forward.

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Speaker 1: If you leave your feet, if you go to the ground,

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Speaker 1: you lose that push. The second factor is Daniel Jones

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Speaker 1: can't go hot, he can't leave his feet. He tried

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Speaker 1: to go up and over the top. It's not goal line.

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Speaker 1: Like on the goal line you can go up and

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Speaker 1: over the top and stretch the ball out. You don't

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Speaker 1: do that. Daniel Jones needs to keep his feet and

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Speaker 1: keep driving. So if everybody keeps their feet driving, then

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Speaker 1: that's how you get that surgeon, you get that yard.

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Speaker 1: But it was poor execution by you know, by the

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Speaker 1: guys up front because they didn't get enough push, and

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Speaker 1: by Daniel Jones by not staying on his feet. Bobby

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Speaker 1: Wagner jump came over top and hit him, but he

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Speaker 1: was off his feet, so he can no longer drive

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Speaker 1: his legs and keep his moment on going forward. So

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Speaker 1: those are two areas where they can absolutely correct that.

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Speaker 1: Those are things you could work at. But as far

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Speaker 1: as the competition committee look, they looked at it and

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Speaker 1: they said, what do you want us to do? Like,

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Speaker 1: this is football. That's a football play. It's a quarterback sneak.

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Speaker 1: You can call it the toast push if you want

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, but it's a short

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Speaker 1: yardi's play, and you know, if you eliminate that, then

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Speaker 1: you might as well just take the pads off, all right.

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Speaker 2: The words of Shot O'Hara, Giants fans love a winner.

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Speaker 2: It's why they love Citizens named the twenty twenty two

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Speaker 2: best bank in the US by the Banker. As the

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Speaker 2: official bank of the Giants and sponsor of the Huddle,

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Speaker 2: Citizens is made ready for fans of Big Blue. Learn

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Speaker 2: more at citizensbank dot com.

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Speaker 3: Shot O'Hara, Paul Tatino. The Giants lose to the Seattle Seahawks.

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Speaker 2: Twenty four to three. That'll do it for this edition

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Speaker 2: of the Giants Fuddle. We'll see you next time.