1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease, a gorgeous young mom and 2 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: I mean absolutely stunning. Of course, one victim is no 3 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: more or less important than another victim. But the fact 4 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: that Rachel Mourn's killer specifically destroyed her face, I find 5 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: highly probative. As we say in the courtroom, he destroyed 6 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: her beauty. Why why, in the last hours, bombshell in 7 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: the search for this beautiful young mother's killer, we now 8 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: have composite sketch of her attacker. How did they do it? 9 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: With us the composite sketch artist who created it. Not 10 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: only that, we are now learning so many more details 11 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: that law enforcement Lee admits they had kept secret. I 12 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being 13 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: with us here at Crime Stories and on Serious XM 14 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: one eleven. First of all, one of the facts that 15 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: have been kept secret till now is the location where 16 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: Rachel Morin was killed and where her body was dragged. 17 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: Listen off to the along the side of this trail, 18 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: there are two large drainage culverts that run under a 19 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: local highway. Those drainage culverts are hidden during the summertime 20 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: by trees and shrubbery, and aren't something that that most 21 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: people would see. I myself would been down that trail 22 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 2: many times and I wasn't aware that those culverts were there. 23 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,839 Speaker 2: In this instance, we could see from the scene that 24 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 2: Rachel was ultimately attacked on the trail. That area of 25 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 2: the trail, there was a bend in the trail that 26 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 2: most likely was used by the individual who committed this crime, 27 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: who attacked Rachel on the trail, pulled her through the 28 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: wooded area into the into this drainage culvert where she 29 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 2: ultimately lost her life. 30 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: You are hearing Captain Andy Lane, commander of criminal investigations 31 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: in that division. But there's more about what we now 32 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: realize is a secret location. Up until now, we didn't 33 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: realize it even existed. Take close to the Sheriff Jeff Gallar. 34 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 3: There's a little bit of information we've held close to 35 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 3: the chest that we haven't released as far as what 36 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 3: the actual location of the homicide was. Looking back at 37 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: everything that we've done, we've been, you know, a little 38 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: leary releasing too many details. So this is something new. 39 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 3: A lot of people ask me routinely, is that where 40 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 3: is that where this homicide occurred? And the hiking trail 41 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 3: that goes underneath of twenty four. These drainage tunnels are 42 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 3: north of that a short distance, but as you said 43 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 3: in the summer particularly, you can't really make them out. 44 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: What can we deduce from what we are just now 45 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: learning from law enforcement in the search for the brutal 46 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: killer of this young mom Rachel morin with me an 47 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: all star panel, including Matt McMahon, who is Rachel mourns 48 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: the father of her oldest child, her daughter. But first 49 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: I want to go straight out to Tim Papa, who 50 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: has walked the trail. Former FBI profiler, supervisory special Agent 51 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: and founder of story Tellers. Tim Papa, thank you for 52 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: being with us. Explain to me the significance of the 53 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: two facts we've just le our. Number one that Rachel 54 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,119 Speaker 1: was attacked just around a bend. What does that mean 55 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: to me? That means to me that if you're here 56 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: on the trail looking forward, she's walking that way, she 57 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: can't see her attacker waiting just around the curve. And 58 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: also people following her will not see her getting attacked 59 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: and dragged down into this culvert area, an area where 60 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: you don't even see it during the spring and summertimes. 61 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: Tell me about it. 62 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 4: These details are definitely importantly, they are pieces to the 63 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 4: puzzle and a good way to approach this as a 64 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 4: former profile of the way we would approach this, of course, 65 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 4: is starting with victimology, that relationship between the offender and 66 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 4: the victim. So even if we don't know who this 67 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 4: offender is, we can approach it from this vantage point 68 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 4: that any kind of action is going to involve some 69 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,679 Speaker 4: element of hell. 70 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 5: Of vulnerable was the victim, how available was the victim, 71 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 5: and how desirable was the victim. So we don't know, 72 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 5: of course it's the defender stalked her, but it's very 73 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 5: possible if he was in that kind of location. 74 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, I'm trying to determine the significance of 75 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: this particular location on the trail and again, and I'm 76 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: sure that Jessica Garth, a veteran trinal lawyer, is going 77 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: to agree with me. You want to win a case, 78 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: you go to the scene and you walk it and 79 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: you find out about it. This is telling me that 80 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: this perp was either watching her or knew the trail, 81 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: had staked it out before, and had selected a prime 82 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: location specifically to attack women. So what does it all mean? 83 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: Listen to Captain Andy Lane this. 84 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 2: Person obviously took the time to be familiar with the 85 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 2: area because he was familiar with the culrids we spoke of, 86 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 2: and he was also most likely or potentially familiar with Rachel, 87 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: who had a time of day she liked to run. 88 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 2: And this individual took an opportunity when Rachel, unfortunately from 89 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: the witnesses we spoke to, was briefly out of view 90 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 2: of anyone else for a short period of time. 91 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: Okay, joining me an all star panel to make sense 92 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: of what we know right now, But I want to 93 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: go to a person very close and very dear to 94 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: Rachel Woren. This is the father of her eldest daughter, 95 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: Matt McMahon. Matthew, thank you for being with us. And 96 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: as you know, when I first saw this story, of course, 97 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: I was captivated by her beauty, by her story, by 98 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: the fact that she's a devoted mom. But I'm really 99 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,799 Speaker 1: focused on justice for her children so they don't grow 100 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: up thinking what happened to mommy? Nobody ever found out. 101 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: They're just children. Do it. We've got to do it 102 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: for them. Matt. Let me ask you this, Matt, what 103 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: can you tell me about this trail? Have you seen 104 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: the trail? 105 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 6: Oh oh, yeah, I've been on this trail going going 106 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,119 Speaker 6: back decades. Rachel and I used to take our daughter 107 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 6: on walks and bike rides down this trail when she 108 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 6: was an infant and a toddler. 109 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: Toddler, Hey, right there, you're telling me something I didn't 110 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: already know. I think long and hard before I take 111 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: the twins anywhere, and if it's camping or on a trail, 112 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: I know that it's safe as safe as it can 113 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: be before I take them there. So this is the 114 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: kind of trail I mean, it's named the Ma and 115 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: Pad Trail that you think would be safe families go there. 116 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely it was a safe trail, and hopefully it'll 117 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 6: be considered a safe trail sometime in the future. There 118 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 6: are spots in the trail where it feels like you're 119 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 6: in the middle of nowhere, but there is really no 120 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 6: time where you're really too far from homes or businesses. 121 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 6: But in speaking to that one turn, it absolutely was, 122 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 6: in my opinion, a place that was pre selected by 123 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 6: the suspect to attack somebody. There's no doubt in my mind. 124 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: You know another thing, and this reminds me, wait for it, 125 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: of Brian Coburger. I flew to Idaho with the freezing 126 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: cold and walked the area over and over and over 127 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: to try to understand what happened. And I figured out, 128 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: along with others who think the same thing, how Coburger 129 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: watched above the tree line. Now, that house was on 130 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: a slope, so you could be standing above it at 131 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: a parking lot and look thirty feet into their third 132 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: floor window through the trees. So easy to see straight. 133 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: I mean I could look in and tell what kind 134 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: of dish washing liquid was on a kitchen windowsill. That's 135 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: how well you could see in. Now, listen to what 136 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: we think Rachel Mooren's killer did. Listen to Captain Andy Lane. 137 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 2: And interviewing witnesses and speaking to people on the trail 138 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 2: at that time, it would appear that there was an 139 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: individual who was standing within the woodline in an area 140 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,599 Speaker 2: that's slightly elevated immediately around the time of this assault. 141 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 2: And I would agree with you, sir, that I don't 142 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 2: know that Rachel was specifically targeted, but I do believe 143 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: that that area was chosen as an area that they 144 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: wanted to assault someone. 145 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: To Jessica Garth, chief of the Special Victims Family Violence Unit, 146 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: in this Jurisdiction of Maryland. Jessica, thank you for being 147 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: with us. I've investigated, prosecuted, and covered a lot of cases. 148 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: But there's a whole nother element of intent, malice for 149 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: lack of a better word. All these street vernacular creepiness, 150 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: with a purp that stands in the dark, in the 151 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: shadows like I think Brian Coburger did, and watches his 152 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: prey in the light. There's something. I'm not a shrink, 153 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: of course, but I've noticed in all the cases. It's 154 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: certainly not a statistic, it's more anecdotal. I've noticed another 155 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: layer of complexity in that purp, and that's what we've 156 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: got here. And when I get to the La attack 157 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: that he absolutely attacked a whole family in the dark 158 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: of the night, it's a whole nother layer because we 159 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: know in that case he was watching that house too 160 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: before he broke in. So what do you make of this, 161 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: Jessica Garth, You've prosecuted a lot of violent crimes. 162 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 7: Well, I agree with Nancy. I mean, without a doubt, 163 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 7: this man is extremely dangerous and he's extremely brave. And 164 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 7: Eve talking about the La case where he broke into 165 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 7: a home where there were multiple people in the home 166 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 7: and attacks adults, attacked a child. It sounds like broke 167 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 7: into the home, not coming into the front door, but 168 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 7: by some other means the police haven't released. You know, 169 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 7: that's one of the most terrifying things that can happen 170 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 7: to a family. And I think that you're right. I 171 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 7: think he probably did watch that home. I think he 172 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 7: probably knew exactly how he was going to get in 173 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 7: and what he was going. 174 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,479 Speaker 1: To do, which I could get my hands around his neck, Jessica, 175 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: just imagining him at the end of that trail, watching 176 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: and I don't know if he had been talking her specifically, 177 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: but watching for either her or a woman to come 178 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: around that band, just waiting, just waiting for the right moment. 179 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 7: I think it is likely that he had seen her 180 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 7: there before. It sounds like that she had a pretty 181 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 7: regular routine of running that trail around the same time, 182 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 7: and maybe he didn't know it was going to be 183 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 7: her on that day, but I'm almost certain that he 184 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 7: had seen her there before. And it certainly is creepy. 185 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 7: It's the level of premeditation that we don't often see 186 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 7: in cases, even cases is violent in this at this 187 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 7: one point. 188 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: Time, stories with Nancy Grace two. Matt McMahon, This is 189 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: a person so dear and near to Rachel. He is 190 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: the father of her eldest child, a daughter who is 191 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: now left to go through her remaining teen years without 192 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: a mom. And I gotta tell you, Matt McMahon, I've 193 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: got two teenagers. Yeah, I don't have to change their 194 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: diapers anymore. I don't have to spoon feed them or 195 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: give them a baby bottle. But the teen years so far, 196 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: in my mind, are the times they need mom and 197 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: dad the most. I really really believe that. And I 198 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: am just sick that Rachel is not going to be 199 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: the How many children does Rachel have, Matt? 200 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 6: She has five children that are now aged eight to eighteen. 201 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 6: At the time of the killing, it was seven to eighteen. 202 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: I mean, Karen Stark, my longtime friend and college it 203 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: just happens to be a renowned TV radio trauma expert. Karen. 204 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: I mean, you've been with me since I was pregnant, 205 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: and you know, the teens need mom and dad now 206 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: more than ever. She got five children, Karen Stark, and 207 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:38,239 Speaker 1: I think about this poc hiding around the band waiting 208 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: for her to innocently walk along and then attack her, 209 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: rape her, kill her, smash her face in with a rut. 210 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: Who and the hell is this guy? 211 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 8: Think of that at Nancy. 212 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 9: The image that you're describing as of a hunter, right 213 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 9: pray and whether he was waiting there for her or 214 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 9: another woman, he was waiting to hunt. He wanted to hunt, 215 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 9: he wanted to kill, and this person was an animal 216 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 9: to him. And there's tremendous anger the fact that he 217 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 9: would smash her face. He didn't want to be able 218 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 9: to look into that face. 219 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 6: Again. 220 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 9: This is somebody who maybe feels that beautiful women don't 221 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 9: want him or he can't have them. He has terrible 222 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 9: feelings of inadequacy, and he actually was out there hunting, 223 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 9: even with the people in the home. 224 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 8: He really thrust it out. 225 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 7: And decided what he was going to do. 226 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 9: And they were all animals, not. 227 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 6: Humans to him. 228 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: You know, Karen Stark, You know, I typically don't care 229 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: why does what he does, but I do care in 230 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: this case because everything that you just said gives me 231 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: a window into his identity. And when we get a 232 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: hold of this guy, Jessica Garth, is there a death 233 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: penalty in Maryland? 234 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 7: No, there's not. 235 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: So basically you can just kill as many people as 236 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: you want to, and then I got to give you 237 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: three hots and a cop for the rest of your life, right, Okay? Hey, 238 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: oh darn no, I don't know that he killed anyone 239 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: in any other jurisdiction. The attacks in California do not 240 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: rise to the death penalty because the victims lived. But 241 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: hold on, I'm putting the cart before the horse here. 242 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: We're talking about was she specifically stalked? And I want 243 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: you to listen to Sheriff Jeff Gawler, Harford County Sheriff. 244 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 3: My gut tells me she was stalked. Do we catch 245 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 3: this person? I also have been putting out there. You 246 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 3: know the fact that it could have just been a 247 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 3: crime of opportunity. He could have laid it weight on 248 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 3: that trail for Rachel or whichever female decided to come 249 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 3: down that trail at a time when there were no 250 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 3: other people in site, you know, more or less a 251 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 3: crime of opportunity. We don't have information, We developed no 252 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 3: information to say she was specifically targeted. 253 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: So his gut is and I respect this guy, he's 254 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: veteranality law enforcement. He says he thinks Rachel Moran was 255 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: stalked I don't know that I agree with that, but see, 256 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: he knows facts we don't know, so he may very 257 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: well be right. But it sounds to me like this 258 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: is a guy much like the Purp and the Silvercomet 259 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: hiking trail. Remember that Jackie where the victim, Jennifer was 260 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: biking and he was at the tree line, watching and 261 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: waiting for a woman, any woman, to come along. So 262 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: the reason this matters, wouldn't you agree, Tim Pappa, former FBI. 263 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: The reason that matters was she stalked or was this 264 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: a random attack on any woman? That won't buy because 265 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: if she was stalked, then maybe we can place him 266 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: at other locations, maybe her yoga studio, her aerobic studio, 267 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: maybe where she ate lunch. I don't know, but that 268 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: is a window into solving this case if she was 269 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: specifically stalked. Yes, no, Tim Pappa, No. 270 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 6: It's definitely a window. 271 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 4: I think the significance too, of what happened in La 272 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 4: is more than likely he learned from that experience that 273 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 4: that was probably too risky, it was too breathing, and 274 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 4: perhaps being in the woods where people can't see him 275 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 4: and he can get familiar with the area, that that 276 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 4: was probably a higher chance of success for him to 277 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 4: take advantage of someone. So I think that speaks to 278 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 4: a functionality of say a killer and their behaviors, their 279 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 4: learning behaviors. 280 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: They've got law enforcement stating that they believe she was stalked. 281 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: Now we know the LA crime, we know that house 282 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: had to be staked out, so that's his mo. He 283 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: steaks out the victim, he stakes out the lowcation, and 284 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: then he acts. I'm going to circle back to whether 285 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: she was being stalked and the new information about the 286 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: LA attack that this guy performed. It was very violent 287 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: and we're finding out that he attacked a whole family, 288 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: assaulting two of the people in the middle of the night. 289 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: A lot of people have been wondering, Look, we only 290 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: have ring doorbell of him leaving the LA crime scene. 291 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: What about coming in, because then I can see his 292 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: face on camera. We now know he broke in another way. 293 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: He didn't come in through the front door, so we 294 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: don't have his face. I've been questioning that over and 295 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: over and over. Now I know some of the answers, 296 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,479 Speaker 1: but I don't want to bury the lead with us today. 297 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: The sketch artist that created this incredible composite, but first 298 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: to Vincent Hill, anchor reporter Fox forty five in Baltimore. 299 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: This jurisdiction of Maryland and interesting. Former police officer and 300 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: private investigator, so he sees reporting in a completely different way. 301 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,479 Speaker 1: He's also author of Playbook to a Murderer. Joining us 302 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: from Fox forty five Baltimore, Vincent Hill, this, before I 303 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: get into the composite, just bring me up to date. 304 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: There has been so many revelations in the last hours 305 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: in the hunt for Rachel Morn's killer. And this is 306 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: as our family, your five children standing by wondering what 307 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: happened to mommy? I want to give them that answer. 308 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 10: Vincent Hill and Nancy well Of relations have certainly been huge. 309 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 10: But I will go back to what Sheriff Gaylor said. 310 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 10: I do believe Rachel may have been stalked. 311 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 6: And here's why. 312 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 10: You have a trail that not a lot of people 313 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 10: know about it. I didn't know about it until I 314 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 10: heard about Rachel. You have this curve in the trail 315 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 10: that again, if you are not familiar with it, you're 316 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 10: not going. 317 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 1: To know about Have you seen it, Vincent. 318 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 10: Yes, I've seen it. 319 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: Is it the way that Matt McMahon describes it absolutely, 320 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: and explain to me about those culverts, how she was 321 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: dragged down into this niche area that most people wouldn't 322 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: know about. People could have actually walked by Vincent Hill 323 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: as she was being raped or killed and not even 324 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: know what was happening and. 325 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 10: Not know exactly exactly, Nancy, because I didn't know about 326 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 10: these culverts. And again, it was eighty two degrees that day, 327 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 10: the sunset. 328 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 11: Was at eight to fourteen that night. 329 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 10: This person had a very very small window to grab 330 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 10: Rachel and do what he did. 331 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: Why do you say that because of other people coming 332 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: along the trail. 333 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 10: Potentially other people along the trail. It's eighty two degrees, Nancy, 334 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 10: everybody was out hiking. 335 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: You know what, You're kind of awesome. You know the time, 336 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: you know the location, you even know the temp. That's 337 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: great because it matters. It matters as to how many 338 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: people will be on that trail. If it's you know, 339 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: thirty six degrees outside, nobody's going to be on the trail. 340 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: But you're right, it's in the eighties, Okay, go ahead, exactly. 341 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 10: And again, how did this guy know the details of 342 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 10: that trail unless he had been to that trail before. 343 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 10: You're talking about a guy that came from Los Angeles, California, 344 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 10: to wherever in between to end up in bel Air, Maryland, 345 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 10: of all places, nobody thinks of bel Air. When you 346 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 10: think of Maryland, you think of Baltimore, you think of Annapolis. 347 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 10: This guy was doing his homework. 348 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: Well, don't you think he had to know somebody there? 349 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: Why would you go to many a little known area 350 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: unless you had a contact there, unless. 351 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 10: You live in the area, your family lives in the area, 352 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 10: someone that this guy knows lives close, or he may 353 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 10: live closer. He may have worked in that area. 354 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: Why are you telling me that? Because there's a thirty 355 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,959 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars rewarding, nobody's giving him up. 356 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 10: Yeah, Dancy, they may not even know, Unfortunately, that it 357 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 10: could be something as simple as, Oh, he did construction 358 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 10: in the area, so he's familiar with it. He spent 359 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 10: a few months working in the area. Oh he went 360 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 10: to the trail. Oh he's seen Rachel there before. Oh 361 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 10: he knows. Oh, this is an easy spot to grab 362 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 10: a victim. It can be something that easy, Nancy. And unfortunately, 363 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 10: there may be someone out there that may know something 364 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 10: and not even realize that they know it. 365 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, you are so right, and that leads me 366 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: perfectly to this a composite You know how happy I 367 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: am right now. So far, all we have seen is 368 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: this killer's back of the head and a slight part 369 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: of the side of his face as he leaves the 370 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: LA crime scene. He's been linked to that by DNA, 371 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: which I'm going to get into in a moment. This 372 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: took a great composite sketch artist and joining me is 373 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: Michael Streed st r Eed. Look him up. He's at 374 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: SketchCop dot com. Now, we do not want to jeopardize 375 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: the investigation. What that means is if and when, god 376 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: willing Michael Streed is put up on the stand on 377 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 1: direct examination to describe how he made this sketch, he's 378 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: going to be cross examined. We don't want to impinge 379 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: upon that cross examination at all. Michael Streed. Let me 380 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: just say this is an incredible composite sketch. I've used 381 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: composite sketches many many times at trial, including the recreation 382 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: of the deceased face when the face was unidentifiable, and 383 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: it helped me win a case against a serial killer 384 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: because the victim that I had the best evidence on 385 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: Michael Streed. Once my sketch artist sketched her face as 386 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: it would have been in life, I realized I showed 387 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: it to the jury in closing arguments. She looked almost 388 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: identical to his former girlfriend that kicked him out, the 389 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: mother of his child, and he hated her for that, 390 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: so he sought out this woman who looked almost identical 391 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: to her as strangled her dead. Think about it. I 392 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: put the two of those sketches up in front of 393 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: the jury and there was dead quiet and because of you, Streed. 394 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: You remember, did you hear what Vincent Hill just said? 395 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: He said, people may not even realize that they know 396 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: the guy because we have never seen his face. And 397 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: guess what now we can now tell me what you can. 398 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: I can already deduce Michael Streed that you got a 399 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: lot of this compositive sketch from the side angle of 400 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: the purpse face that we see in the ring camera. 401 00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: In the La brutal assault, he attacked two people I 402 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: think are females, I guess sexually had to get that 403 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: DNA from somewhere. It wakes up the whole house. A 404 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: little child wanders in. It's like, what's happening. The whole 405 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: house wakes up and they get him out. That's what 406 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: I know right now. That could change, But you've got 407 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: that side view of his face in that ring camera. 408 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: But let me ask you this. Did you speak to 409 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: any of the LA victims? 410 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 11: Yeah, I spoke to witnesses that were provided And although 411 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 11: I can't reveal the where they were from in terms 412 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 11: of Maryland or LA. 413 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: I would be mad if you did. So, you spoke 414 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: to witnesses that can help you feel in the composite. 415 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 416 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 11: I did? I did. I spoke to multiple witnesses, and 417 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 11: of course, you know the Sheriff's Department and their podcast 418 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 11: recently talked about myself using the part of the ring 419 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 11: video footage to help assemble DI sketch as well. 420 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: You know what I see you did? This would be 421 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: on his left upper lip. You know how there's the 422 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: heart shape of the lip in most people, not everybody, 423 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: but I notice it goes up on the left side 424 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: of his lip. It's a little higher than the one 425 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: on the right. You had to get that from somewhere. 426 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: That d just fall on your head. His ears are 427 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,479 Speaker 1: positioned a little bit higher on his head. I can 428 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: see it more in the sketch without the hat. You're 429 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: showing me the hat. Did that? Let me look at 430 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: that ring video, Jackie. Did the hat come from the 431 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: LA scene? Oh? Wait, yeah, they found the hat at 432 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: the scene. That's how we got the DNA. Wow. Okay. 433 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: So you have him sketched with his night red Nike 434 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: hat and without and I see the haircut Michael Street, 435 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: and it is amazing the way you have extrapolated the 436 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: haircut from that ring video. It's amazing. I'm just looking 437 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: at your details. He as a very distinct nose shape 438 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: of his nose. So you don't have to tell me. 439 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: I understand. You say a witness. It had to be 440 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: a witness that saw the guy. So how do you 441 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: go about doing something like this? To me? This is 442 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: a ving goh my friend. 443 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 11: Well, you know, the thing is, Nancy, it's not always 444 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 11: about the art. I mean, it helps if you have 445 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 11: strong drawing skills. That way, you're not going to wind 446 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 11: up on evening News as drawing one of the ten 447 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 11: worst composites. 448 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Do you hear what they say about 449 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: the Federal court sketch artists. They never look anything like 450 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 1: the people ever, you don't want that on the six Squat. 451 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 11: News and this and this is what's so great about 452 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,239 Speaker 11: you know, composites and so great about what I do 453 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 11: is because it's more of I think you're better artists 454 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 11: out there have really great communication skills because you're dealing 455 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 11: with people who have been traumatized, and you deal with 456 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 11: sometimes people that don't realize what they've seen and who 457 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 11: they've seen. So you're using two different methods to coax 458 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 11: information out of people. You know, people that don't want 459 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 11: to remember and people that can't remember because they don't 460 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 11: realize what they've seen. So, you know, you try to 461 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 11: go in with some sort of plan depending upon the 462 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 11: eyewitness and the victim that you're talking to in terms 463 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 11: of like an interview strategy, and at times that's going 464 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 11: to change, and you have to be able to be 465 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 11: flexible enough to change your communication style. You know, the 466 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 11: words you use, you know, street phrases, depending upon who 467 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 11: comes in. I've talked to, you know, in the Samantha 468 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 11: Runyon case back in two thousand and two, my eyewitness 469 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 11: of that kidnapping was a five year old girl. 470 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: Wow, hold on, Samantha run In was a three year 471 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: old little girl who was playing in her grandmother's front yard. 472 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: Grandma at the kitchen sink. The prop comes up in 473 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: the front yard and takes Samantha takes off with her. 474 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: I believe they even went through like a McDonald's dry 475 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: before he raped and murdered her mother and Runyon, he 476 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: instead of letting it ruin her life as it easily 477 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: could have, went on to become an amazing victims' rights advocate. 478 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,959 Speaker 1: So Samantha Runyon was playing with little friends in the 479 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: front yard. That was your witness. That's amazing. 480 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 11: So I went in in that case, whereas in this 481 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 11: case they've got DNA, they were able to link to 482 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 11: the la case and CODIS. In Samantha's case, there was 483 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 11: no DNA, nothing left at the crime scene. In that case, 484 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 11: the sketch led to the identity of the killer, in 485 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 11: which case there was a collected DNA from him, and 486 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 11: then match it to the DNA found at the crime scene. 487 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 11: So this is different the fact that they've got the 488 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 11: DNA but they don't he's the person's not in CODIS 489 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 11: at this point. There's no way to identify him at 490 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 11: this point. So they got the DNA, So now it's 491 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 11: time for the sketch to go to work. 492 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: How do you do a sketch? Just tell me how 493 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: do you? Just you sketch a little bit like the 494 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: person says, okay, he had dark hair and his ears 495 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: were up high. So you start and then they say no, 496 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: they weren't that high. And then what do you do? 497 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: Do you do? You start it and show it to 498 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: them and then they go no, no, no no or yeah 499 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: yea yeah yeah. How do how do what's the process? 500 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 11: This whole process starts with trying to build rapport quickly, 501 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 11: try to build a relationship with them quickly, get them 502 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 11: to relax and trust you. When we start talking and 503 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 11: I take them through the crime and I get them 504 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 11: to focus. 505 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: On the face so they tell you about the actual crime. 506 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 11: Yes, I like to talk to them about the crime 507 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 11: minus the gory details, especially in sexual assault cases, so 508 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 11: I can get some context in terms of how long 509 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 11: they saw the person, what angle of observation, what the 510 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 11: lighting was like, all things that can influence the final 511 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 11: sketch in terms of how it shapes their memory. You know, 512 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 11: for example, you know, parking lot lights, depending upon the 513 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 11: bulb that's in there, will oftentimes affect the color of 514 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 11: a suspect vehicle. It may not always be correct. A 515 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,719 Speaker 11: person who's you know, laying down and looking up at 516 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 11: the suspect the foreshortening the face may cause the forehead 517 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 11: to look higher, in the chin to look lower. So 518 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 11: all these things are important in terms of how I 519 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 11: developed the sketch. And then after they've described the face, 520 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 11: then we go through and look at some reference pictures, 521 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 11: pictures of previously arrested people having nothing to do with 522 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 11: the case, and they pick out the most similar looking 523 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 11: facial features and from that we assemble the sketch and 524 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 11: go through their finding process. And all that time we're talking. 525 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 11: We're talking about what they saw, we're talking about their children, 526 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,719 Speaker 11: we're talking about their careers, their life, and you know, 527 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 11: things that just kind of keep them relaxed, you know, 528 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 11: so they don't so they can keep that mind open 529 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 11: and keep that information flowing. And right up until the end, 530 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 11: you know, it takes maybe a couple hours, you know, 531 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 11: door to door, and we come up with something that 532 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 11: we hope that they're happy with. 533 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: And at the end, do you say it's just him? 534 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: And you asked them, is the nose ride or the 535 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: eyes ride or the eyebrows right, there's a chin right, 536 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: because I noticed he's got a square chin. That's significant. 537 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 11: I asked them if they believe that this sketch that 538 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 11: we worked hard, that they provide information for, is a 539 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 11: sketch that they believe will be helpful to detectives in 540 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 11: their investigation, because I don't want to put I want 541 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 11: to I want to get some honest feeds back from them, 542 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 11: and we work until they're happy. Because besides being a 543 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 11: piece of evidence, it's also a psychological first aid tool 544 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 11: for eyewitness and victims are traumatized. They feel like they're 545 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 11: doing something affirmative to help the case. They're not sitting 546 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 11: on the sidelines, you know, they're they're they're they're helping 547 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 11: work on the case. And you know you talk about 548 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 11: people looking at this sketch and knowing the person. Yeah, 549 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 11: about three decades Agohen the Nightstalker was ravaging La. His 550 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 11: roommate actually saw the sketch and he commented said, Hey, 551 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 11: you think the sketch looks like me? And she said, yeah, 552 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 11: but I don't think it's you because you don't have 553 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 11: the guts to do what they're saying that you allegedly did. 554 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 11: And she dismissed it, and he went on to continue 555 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 11: raping and killing. So now he's compiled of sketches, especially 556 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 11: in cases like Rachel Moren's, become the signature image. 557 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,959 Speaker 1: You know, one thing I noticed, Michael, is that in 558 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: the ring video he's wearing a gold chain that's not 559 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: in the sketch. Also, I've looked and looked and looked 560 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: at it as is reflected in your sketch. I don't 561 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: see him wearing an ear ring or a ring or 562 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: anything on his hands. I don't see any tattoos, and 563 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: there's no evidence that we've heard that he had as 564 00:33:45,640 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: a tattoo, which would have really helped us locate him. 565 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, you're hearing Michael Street, 566 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: the sketch artist in this case, who went through an 567 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: exhaustive interview and sketch process. He can't reveal who he 568 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: spoke with. But did you hear him say it's a witness. 569 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: He didn't say a victim. He said a witness, and 570 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: that witness had the opportunity to view the purp. This 571 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: purp is the killer of Rachel. Mourn him. Now you 572 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 1: see him with his Jordan hat on. That's significant. If 573 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: he's wearing it, then I guarantee you he's wearing a 574 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: similar hat now right Think about it. People do the 575 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: same thing over and over, Karen start I wear athletic 576 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: tights every day and tennis shoes a certain kind of 577 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: tennis ues Brooks and for reasons. And this guy, I 578 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: guarantee you is somewhere right now with an athletic logo 579 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: hat on his head, laughing because he hasn't been caught. 580 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: He's a creature of habit. Karen Stark. 581 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,720 Speaker 9: Oh, I definitely agree, Nancy. And he's organized, he knows 582 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 9: exactly what he wants to do. Somebody who understood that 583 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 9: he could take Rachel and put her in a place 584 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 9: where nobody would know where she was. This is somebody 585 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 9: who really researched what he was about to do entering 586 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 9: that home, and the sketch is just I hope everybody 587 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:45,359 Speaker 9: gets to. 588 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 7: See it, you know what. 589 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: I don't think we're really doing it justice about what 590 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: happened to Rachel Mooren. And I don't like going into 591 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: this kind of detail in front of a family member. 592 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: Matt McMahon, but he knows that, and he is here 593 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: with us today to help find her killer. Doctor Michelle 594 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: Dupree is with US renowned forensic pathologists who shot to 595 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: fame during the Alexian Murdog trial. Author of Money, Mischief 596 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: and Murder, The Murdog Saga the rest of the story. 597 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: I have her here today because she literally wrote the 598 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: book Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Doctor Dupree. Let's get down 599 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: to what this case is really about. What happened? What 600 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: did this guy? This guy right here Michael Street has 601 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: drawn for us in incredible detail. What did he do 602 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: to Rachel. 603 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 8: Well, Nancy? He did horrific things. He obviously dragged her 604 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,919 Speaker 8: into this culvert against her will. He beat her. He 605 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 8: hit her head with a rock, and he killed her 606 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 8: right there. 607 00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: You know what, you're certainly sugar coating it, air brushing it. 608 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: Beat her her face was caved in, doctor Dupree, with 609 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: a rock. He is an animal, He is a savage. 610 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 1: He didn't beat her like no, he beat her face 611 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: in with a rock, Doctor Dupree, Yes. 612 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 8: Nancy, he did. And that is a horrific way to die. 613 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 8: It is a horrific crime, unimaginable that somebody can do 614 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 8: that to another person. 615 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: Visit Hill. What is her actual coeod cause of death. 616 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: Is it strangulation? Is it stabbing? What is it? 617 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 10: Nancy? The Harford County Sheriff's Office has not released that information, 618 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 10: so we don't know exactly what her calls it death. 619 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,399 Speaker 1: Is well, it seems to me, doctor Michelle Dupree, you're 620 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: the medical examiner, that if you're the orbital bones and 621 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: the side of your skull are literally carved in, it 622 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 1: would be too massive brain injury and bleeding. 623 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,760 Speaker 8: Yes, Nancy, would probably be blunt force trauma to traumatic 624 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 8: brain injury. 625 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: Matt McMahon, I'm sorry because you're going through so much 626 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: and having to hear the details over and over. How 627 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: has that been explained to her children or has it. 628 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 6: Been well the details to my daughter where we're lead 629 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 6: directed to her from the Harvard County Sheriff's Department. My 630 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 6: daughter and I went in and sat on the table 631 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 6: with three of the investigators, so one of them was 632 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 6: mister Lane, and they explained everything to Fay. She actually 633 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 6: refused to leave the room to avoid any details because 634 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 6: I did ask some pretty direct and pointed questions. So 635 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 6: my daughter has heard all of the details. I'm not 636 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,760 Speaker 6: sure about how this was explained to the other children, 637 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 6: just because they're not my children, and they were discussions 638 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,760 Speaker 6: that they had with their father. 639 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: And they're so young too. The other children are so young. 640 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 6: Matt, they are you know, eight, ten, twelve, and thirteen. 641 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: I don't know that not a shrink, but I don't 642 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: know that I would tell them all of that. I mean, Matt, 643 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: even now, do you know. I have never gone back 644 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: to the scene where my fiance was murdered because I 645 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: think it would just be an emotional and mental overload 646 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: for me because it was so devastating to me when 647 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: he was murdered that I don't want to go back 648 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: to that place. I mean, I've got children to raise. 649 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: It's the emotional toll. 650 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 6: My daughter, Fay, has not gone back to that trail 651 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 6: since this has happened. Once she did, it was Memorial 652 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 6: Walk where flowers real lead along the trail. That's the 653 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 6: only time that she's gone back. 654 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: Guys, the law enforcement are they've been holding a lot 655 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: close to the vest I don't fault them for that. 656 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: There are reasons that they've done that, reasons that directly 657 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: relate to the investigation and the integrity of the investigation. 658 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: How did we get the d listen to Captain Lane. 659 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,800 Speaker 2: In processing the scene, we recovered genetic material. That genetic 660 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,879 Speaker 2: material ultimately was entered into a system called COTIS, which 661 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 2: is a national DNA database. COTIS contains not only no defenders, 662 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,280 Speaker 2: but it also contains DNA samples from other unsolved crimes 663 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 2: with unknown suspects. COTIS was a huge break for us, 664 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 2: and what we were able to do was link this 665 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 2: crime to another unsolved crime in Los Angeles, which was 666 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 2: a home invasion, and in that instance, that suspects left 667 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 2: behind a hat and that hat was collected by the 668 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 2: Los Angeles Police Department and DNA was located on that hat, 669 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,919 Speaker 2: and that DNA was entered into COTIS when we entered 670 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 2: our sample in from our crime scene. Those two matched. 671 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 2: So that allowed us ultimately to be able to recover 672 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,799 Speaker 2: video evidence that showed us who our suspect was and 673 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 2: allowed us to link to crimes that occurred on opposite 674 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 2: sides of the country. 675 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill with May Fox forty five there in Maryland, 676 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill on TV and big movies. The props are 677 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: always so smart. This guy is not that smart. He 678 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: left behind a hat and they are perfect vehicles for DNA. 679 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 10: Yeah, it wasn't too smart. Nancy, I think he was 680 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 10: trying to get out of that location there in Los 681 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,919 Speaker 10: Angeles in the hurry and not realizing, oh my god, 682 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 10: I left my hat. They can figure out who I 683 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,240 Speaker 10: may be based on this hat. But on the flip side, Nancy, 684 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,399 Speaker 10: when you think about it, he mentioned CODs and unknown suspects. 685 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 10: This guy has not been arrested for felony, whereas DNA 686 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 10: would have been collected. So until he does that, he, 687 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 10: like you said earlier, is watching and laughing and just 688 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,359 Speaker 10: going on about his life because he knows his name 689 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,879 Speaker 10: is not anywhere in his system until he gets caught 690 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 10: for a felony. 691 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: Tim Papa, do you agree for her FBI. I mean, 692 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: he's not that smart and it maybe he's eluded us 693 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 1: because he's left the country. 694 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:57,720 Speaker 6: I mean, I personally agree. 695 00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 4: I think part of it is we might just have 696 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 4: a pretty and experienced defender. Maybe the plausible storyline is 697 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,240 Speaker 4: he committed the sack in La, learned from it, fled 698 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 4: to the other side of the country, and so him 699 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 4: being active in the woods and looking for a victim 700 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,719 Speaker 4: might be his response to breaking into a house doesn't work. 701 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 11: Look what happens. 702 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 4: There's cameras there's ways traces of me can be left. 703 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,480 Speaker 4: I mean, even looking at what you did to her, 704 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 4: we don't know. Again, I see somebody who's panicking and 705 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 4: thinks I need to take her life as quickly and 706 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 4: aggressively as I can. 707 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: Or maybe he realized he left witnesses behind and he's 708 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: not going to leave witnesses to testify again in this case, 709 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:47,320 Speaker 1: and therefore murdered Rachel Moren. But we're getting also a view, 710 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,240 Speaker 1: a little more of a view of what exactly happened 711 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,760 Speaker 1: in la and it is violent. Listen to Captain Lane. 712 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,760 Speaker 2: This case is actively mistigated by the Los Angeles Police Department. 713 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 2: That was also a violent attack. There's nothing that would 714 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 2: point us the belief that it was anything other than 715 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 2: a random attack. There were multiple people within that home 716 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 2: who were injured, and there were minor children who were 717 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 2: injured as well. I think that case, along with this case, 718 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 2: highlight how dangerous this individual is and how important it 719 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,880 Speaker 2: is to locate him for public safety. 720 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: Matt McMahon is joining us someone very near and dear 721 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: to Rachel Lauren, a mother of five. He's the dad 722 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:41,319 Speaker 1: of her oldest daughter. Matt, I'm learning more about the 723 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: attack in la have police shared with you that knowledge. 724 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,400 Speaker 6: I knew that it was an attack and that the 725 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 6: suspect was forced from the home. I do understand that 726 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 6: they're not only witnesses, but they're also victims as well. 727 00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 1: Two family members were assaulted. We haven't been told it 728 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: was a sex attack, but I believe that it was. 729 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 1: A child wakes up. Here's something horrible going on. As 730 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,160 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, take a listen to Captain Andy Lane, 731 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: Commander Criminal Investigation Division. 732 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 2: The suspect, when he's in the home, winds up assaulting 733 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:25,520 Speaker 2: two family members who were unable to defend themselves. A 734 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 2: third family member, who is a younger person, enters that 735 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,360 Speaker 2: room and manages to surprise that person and manages to 736 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 2: surprise the suspects and begin to force him out of 737 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 2: the home. As the suspect flees the home, this individual 738 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 2: who is frightened and is scared and is a younger 739 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,320 Speaker 2: person and doesn't understand why someone's in his home attacking 740 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 2: his family members. The suspect other people in the home 741 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 2: begin to wake up and he realizes now that there's 742 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,640 Speaker 2: multiple people in the home. They're yelling at him. He's 743 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 2: trying to just exit the home, so as soon as 744 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 2: he leaves the door, that younger person who actually interrupted 745 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,560 Speaker 2: the crime scene slams the door shut and locks it 746 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 2: and then immediately calls the police. 747 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: Karen Stark, he even left without a shirt on. 748 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 9: Yeah, Nancy, and that makes you wonder like, was there 749 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 9: seems to be something under his arm? 750 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 7: Was he wearing a jacket and they pulled it off? 751 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,919 Speaker 9: But if you look at that video, Nancy, this guy 752 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,600 Speaker 9: has ice in his veins, not blood, because he's not 753 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:25,399 Speaker 9: even running away from the house. He's kind of sauntering off. 754 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,800 Speaker 9: He has no feelings. It's like, Okay, I got caught 755 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,320 Speaker 9: this time, but you know I'll do it again. 756 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not in a hurry at all, which is 757 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:38,279 Speaker 1: an incredible observation and gives me another window into his identity. 758 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,959 Speaker 1: Jessica Garth, chief of the Special Victims' Family Violence Unit 759 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:47,319 Speaker 1: in Prince George County. There in Maryland this jurisdiction. Can 760 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,439 Speaker 1: you compare and contrast what we know about the lay 761 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,880 Speaker 1: attack Brazen, what we know about the attack on Rachel 762 00:45:53,920 --> 00:46:00,080 Speaker 1: Mooren Brazen to add to his identity, what does it tell. 763 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,440 Speaker 7: One hundred percent? Braven is the first thing I think 764 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 7: that we can land on here the attack in La 765 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,799 Speaker 7: is on he'd breaks into a home in the night 766 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 7: where you know people are home and they're sleeping, And 767 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,720 Speaker 7: I agree with you, Nancy. We don't think they've released 768 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,680 Speaker 7: what kind of attack it was, but there are only 769 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 7: so many reasons why you break into somebody's home at night. 770 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,880 Speaker 7: Certainly a sexual assault at the top of that list. 771 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:22,400 Speaker 7: If he did attack women in the home, and he 772 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,880 Speaker 7: attacked Rachel Moore, and here, you know, we can compare 773 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 7: that he's attacking vulnerable victims. In our society. Women are 774 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 7: still more vulnerable than then when it comes to physical attacks, 775 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,760 Speaker 7: certainly when we're talking about a male attacker. But breaking 776 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 7: into that home in the middle of the night, he 777 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,840 Speaker 7: picked a time when they were unlikely to be people 778 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,920 Speaker 7: on the street, people unlikely to see him breaking into 779 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,480 Speaker 7: the home. Looking at the attack here in Maryland, you 780 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 7: know he picked a spot on the trail where he'd 781 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,960 Speaker 7: be able to surprise Rachel and get her quickly off 782 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,880 Speaker 7: the trail, where even if there were other people around, 783 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,440 Speaker 7: he'd be able to get her to that private area 784 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,800 Speaker 7: without them being able to see what he was doing. 785 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 7: And some of the other commenters have mentioned that he's 786 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 7: seems to be evolving, and I also agree with that one. 787 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 7: Leaving his hat behind at the first scene was a 788 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 7: huge mistake. Leading his DNA behind with Rachel is another 789 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,239 Speaker 7: huge mistake, and it's the only reason why with any 790 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,279 Speaker 7: idea who he is. But I fear what he might 791 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 7: do if there is a third attack or another victim, 792 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 7: because we might not be as lucky getting the evidence 793 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 7: that we have in these two cases. 794 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 1: My experience with random attackers, they can't stop, They cannot 795 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:36,359 Speaker 1: stop themselves until he's caught. He is a threat. If 796 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:41,279 Speaker 1: you have information or think you have information on this man, 797 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:47,200 Speaker 1: as drawn by Michael Street, beautifully drawn. I might add, 798 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:53,320 Speaker 1: there is a thirty five thousand dollar reward. This guy 799 00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:57,239 Speaker 1: was in and about Hartford. He ate there, he shot there, 800 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,520 Speaker 1: he went to the gas station. Who is see somebody 801 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:09,680 Speaker 1: knows him. Thirty five thousand dollars reward tipline toll free 802 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 1: one eight eight eight five four zero eight four seven 803 00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:20,080 Speaker 1: seven repeat eight eight eight five four zero eight four 804 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:29,680 Speaker 1: seven seven. Rachel Morin's children me justice so they can 805 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,600 Speaker 1: live their lives. Goodbye.