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Speaker 1: Hello friends, I'm Robert Evans, and this is once again

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Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards the Shore. We tell you everything you

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Speaker 1: don't know about the very worst people in all of history.

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Speaker 1: And today we have a special guest who we will

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Speaker 1: be talking about a special subject with the guest not

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Speaker 1: a bastard is Teresa Leela. You don't know I could

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Speaker 1: be a bastard? Well, I don't know what is the

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Speaker 1: technical definition like that? No mom? No dad? No mom?

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Speaker 1: What runaway? Dad's run away? Then you're a bastard, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if your dad's gone, yeah, yes, yes, Okay. Many people

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Speaker 1: don't use it for that anymore. Really, I made a

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Speaker 1: mistake of getting a bag of cookies right before this started,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I'll just stack. But you can't

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Speaker 1: eat cookies on a podcast. You can't eat cookies on

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Speaker 1: a podcast. You know what you can eat air? I

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Speaker 1: was going to say the truth, Oh yes you can. Okay,

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Speaker 1: great transition, Look at those transitions. Really great. Today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about someone who we will be catching some fire

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Speaker 1: on Twitter for talking about what do you know about

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Speaker 1: R Kelly? Well? I don't know, like I know, I

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Speaker 1: think I know enough, like I know what was big news?

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Speaker 1: But I never decided to like open up the book

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Speaker 1: and deep dive into R. Kelly so that there may

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Speaker 1: be things that are surprising to me. But I will say,

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Speaker 1: just before this podcast, I was like, let me look

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Speaker 1: at all his songs again just to remind myself, and

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Speaker 1: I forgot that he's saying the space Jam song. So

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Speaker 1: so now I'm like, were you thinking playing that song

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Speaker 1: in my head? Well, outside of that, like, were you

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Speaker 1: ever a fan of his music? Do you remember any

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Speaker 1: particular albums that like. I never used to buy albums

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Speaker 1: as a kid, so he was sort of in his heyday.

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Speaker 1: His popular songs I would you know, play and sing

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Speaker 1: along to and dance too. But I I wasn't a

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Speaker 1: big album buyer until pretty much in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years because I wasn't really allowed to as a kid.

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Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, I have similar experience with him

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Speaker 1: to wear Like, as a nineties kid, I heard a

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Speaker 1: lot of R. Kelly songs, but I liked I did

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Speaker 1: like a I didn't ever attribute it to him. It

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Speaker 1: was one of those things where it's like I like

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Speaker 1: this new song, Oh it's R. Kelly, But it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like I stand for R Kelly. He was just a

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Speaker 1: big part of like the soundtrack of the late nineties

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Speaker 1: and early auts in particular. I like that I'm a

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Speaker 1: Flirt song. I think does he saying I'm in love

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Speaker 1: with the bartender? Was like, No, that was definitely not right.

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Speaker 1: It's to te pain, that's right, Okay, So but his

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Speaker 1: air he's around that era. I feel like the tea

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Speaker 1: Pain songs were on the radio. R Kelly songs were

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Speaker 1: on the radio. Yeah, yeah, I mean he likes fun

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Speaker 1: to grind to that sort of thing. Definitely fun to

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Speaker 1: grind too. I think he has a couple of songs

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Speaker 1: with grind in the name. So let's hear about the

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Speaker 1: fact that he probably has a sex cult. Like he's

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Speaker 1: the kind of a child pornographer, right, isn't that a thing?

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Speaker 1: People like know him for pain on people. But wasn't

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Speaker 1: she also under age? Well be getting into that. It's

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Speaker 1: actually very tough to answer that question definitively. Like it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things like where pretty much everyone's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but legally he actually got off there was no right

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Speaker 1: because there's no proof. Wait, this does remind me real quick. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Speaking of r Kelly, the song I'm a Flirt when

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Speaker 1: I was. I wasn't. I was technically enerraged, but nothing

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Speaker 1: bad happened, but I was. I have to premose that

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Speaker 1: so people don't get uncomfortable. But that song. Remember I

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Speaker 1: worked at a Y m C A camp for a summer,

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Speaker 1: and I was like kind of talking to in the

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Speaker 1: way seventeen year olds do very innocently. Do we nothing

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Speaker 1: but to uh to like a twenty one year old

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Speaker 1: football player at Stanford and we Standford. Yeah we grinded

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Speaker 1: to that song fancy summer, But okay, you grinded kind

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Speaker 1: of in tribute to R. Kelly because technically I was

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Speaker 1: under age. I was seventeen years old. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, R Kelly, hey cool, get over

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Speaker 1: here and get maybe put yourself in a questionable position. Well,

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Speaker 1: if I understand right, seventeen is the age of consent

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Speaker 1: for grind dancing most of the Eastern seaboards. He was respectful.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it was he was like, let's see

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Speaker 1: how fa year ago and I will not push you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like I feel like he was like,

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Speaker 1: it's it's crazy that that's the bar for being a

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Speaker 1: good guy. I'm not going to push it with this

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Speaker 1: teenage He definitely didn't put it stop to it, but

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Speaker 1: he went as far as I was comfortable and then

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Speaker 1: did not push it further. I gotta tell you, Teresa,

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Speaker 1: as a man, it is so easy to be a

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Speaker 1: good guy because it's it's just it's just don't assault people.

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Speaker 1: Like really, if you don't assault people like, I've done

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Speaker 1: a lot of shitty things, But as long as I

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Speaker 1: don't assault people are gas light them like I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm sailing. I've gotten years without paying my taxes,

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Speaker 1: but none of that matters because the bar is just

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Speaker 1: below the floor these days. It's opposite a woman. If

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Speaker 1: you just start a sentence with I want, you're just

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Speaker 1: automatically a bit like, well, I mean, men never expressed

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Speaker 1: them smiling. Would you get me a cel I want

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Speaker 1: to celsius double flip off. Well, we should probably get

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Speaker 1: into the story now. Yeah, okay, but I'm sure there

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Speaker 1: will be a lot more fun conversations about gender politics.

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Speaker 1: I know that's what the it's really tunes in for.

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Speaker 1: Robert Sylvester Kelly was born in Chicago on January nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty seven. His dad was absent from the get go,

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Speaker 1: and his mother, Joanne raised him and his three siblings.

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Speaker 1: She was a school teacher and a committed Baptist. Writing

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Speaker 1: later in his autobiography Solo Coaster, Kelly Sorry, there's a

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Speaker 1: little yeah, his auto solo Coaster like a roller exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We will be hearing that title regularly and it will

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Speaker 1: never not make me die just a little bit inside,

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Speaker 1: just a little bit. But and the thing that I

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Speaker 1: hate to admit is I kind of like the layout

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Speaker 1: of the book. Does it look like a roller coaster? No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. It's just like it's just neat. I've never

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Speaker 1: seen an autobiography like Kelly clear. No. It's a lot

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Speaker 1: of visuals, Like he put a lot of thought into

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Speaker 1: how he laid out his autobiography, and it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things you get this throughout the story. It sucks

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Speaker 1: Like it's when someone like Harvey Weinstein, who's like a

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Speaker 1: piece of ship, but like I can't point anything great

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Speaker 1: he did, Like he's just a piece of ship who

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Speaker 1: was tied to some good movies. R. Kelly is like

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Speaker 1: a really good artist, Like he's one of these people.

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Speaker 1: He's in like the running for the best R and

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Speaker 1: B singer of all time, and he's like he's legitimately talented.

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Speaker 1: So like as you go through, Like as I'm reading

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Speaker 1: his autobiography with its ridiculous, stupid name, I'm like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 1: this guy's got a real good talent for layout. And

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Speaker 1: then I'm like, oh yeah, and he's molesting children. Fucking Christ.

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Speaker 1: It's frustrating. I don't know, maybe it's not, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: he bought someone else, probably laid it out. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I feel like he's he's he's that kind of I

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Speaker 1: think he's just too controlling to let someone else lay

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Speaker 1: out his autobiography. But we'll get to that too anyway.

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Speaker 1: I'm we're a paragraph fast solo coaster. Yeah. So, in

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Speaker 1: his autobiography Solo Coaster, Kelly recalled that on the rare

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Speaker 1: occasions he asked his mom what had happened to his dad.

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Speaker 1: This was her response, don't say nothing to me about that,

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Speaker 1: No good son of a bitch, because the minute he

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Speaker 1: found out I was pregnant with you, his coward ass left,

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Speaker 1: disappeared in the wind. Didn't want to have anything to

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Speaker 1: do with either you or me. Kelly goes on to, right,

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Speaker 1: I remember my mother's eyes on one of those days,

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Speaker 1: close to blood red as the anger grew and grew

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Speaker 1: while she talked about my father as if he was

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Speaker 1: the devil himself. I remember my eyes getting baby blood

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Speaker 1: red too, because what my mother loved I loved, and

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Speaker 1: what she hated I hated baby blood red. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that's not a color baby blue as a color

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Speaker 1: baby baby blood, well, I mean maybe if you kill

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Speaker 1: a lot of babies, Oh there you got, Yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: got babies on the mind. I mean, I imagine a

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Speaker 1: baby's blood would be a different color because the baby

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Speaker 1: has not been subjected to all the same adults eating

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Speaker 1: solid foods yet exactly. So maybe if you've seen a

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Speaker 1: lot of baby blood, it sticks on. This is part

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Speaker 1: of why I think he wrote it to no ghostwriter

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Speaker 1: is going to be like baby blood red. That sounds

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Speaker 1: like it came out of our Kelly's head. Um. It

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Speaker 1: was that day, that moment that I decided to hate

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Speaker 1: my father, not knowing really what hatement or having a

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Speaker 1: clear understanding of love. She told me on that day

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Speaker 1: never to mention him again. I'm your mother and your father,

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Speaker 1: she said. I promised her that I'd never talked about

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Speaker 1: him again, and I never did. Yeah, Well that's that's

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Speaker 1: that's his background. Robert Kelly grew up very poor as

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Speaker 1: family lived in the projects on the South side of Chicago, which,

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Speaker 1: according to the song Bad Bad Leroy Brown, is the

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Speaker 1: baddest part of town. In his autobiography, Kelly vaguely refers

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Speaker 1: to his childhood home as being filled with numerous older women,

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Speaker 1: and it's unclear how many of them were related and

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Speaker 1: how many of them are just around, but it seems weird.

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Speaker 1: It seems weird, and Kelly's telling of it, when my

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Speaker 1: mother wasn't around, the woman ran a little freer. As

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Speaker 1: I crept up in age, I found myself more curious

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Speaker 1: and sometimes aroused, and I was ashamed of being aroused.

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Speaker 1: He says he was eight when he first saw people

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Speaker 1: having sex, and the story he tells is kind of baffling.

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Speaker 1: He comes upon this couple getting it on, and they

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Speaker 1: see him and basically give him the okay to watch,

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Speaker 1: like look at him and yeah. On one occasion, I

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Speaker 1: think later than this, he was handed a camera and

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Speaker 1: asked by a couple having sex to take their pictures

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Speaker 1: while they were having sex. Um he recalls that the

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Speaker 1: photographic technology impressed me more than the sex. Maybe he's

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Speaker 1: like repressed some of them. That's sad. Yeah, I know. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it's one of those things you got

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Speaker 1: to start with, like why do people do like? That's

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Speaker 1: another thing with like Weinstein. I don't know enough about

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Speaker 1: his like childhood to know, like was he abused a

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Speaker 1: bunch as a kid to that have an impact on it.

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Speaker 1: Not that that mitigates bad behavior, because most people who

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Speaker 1: are abused, people who write that, people who go both ways.

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Speaker 1: But this makes you understand what comes next a lot better.

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Speaker 1: So like this kid, he's never going to have an

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Speaker 1: easy time coming up. What's appropriate and what's normal is

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Speaker 1: off right from the get go. Yeah, age eight seems

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Speaker 1: to have been a crowded hour for young Robert Kelly.

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Speaker 1: It's the year when he first watched people fuck, first

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Speaker 1: photographed people fucking, and it's also the year in which

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Speaker 1: the love of his life died. Yeah. Here is a

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Speaker 1: quote from his autobiography Solo Coaster. I love love. There's

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Speaker 1: no one on earth more romantic than me. I've been

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Speaker 1: in love with love ever since I can't remember. I've

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Speaker 1: always loved the idea of having a girlfriend. I love

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Speaker 1: the closeness, the sweetness, holding her hand, kissing her cheek,

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Speaker 1: whispering words of affection, and hearing her say that she

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Speaker 1: feels the same about me. My first girlfriend was named Lulu,

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Speaker 1: and she was so special though we were only eight

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Speaker 1: and it was puppy love. I believe she was my

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Speaker 1: first musical inspiration when it comes to love songs. So,

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Speaker 1: according to r. Kelly, Lulu died brutally that same year

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Speaker 1: when he was eight. At eight. Yeah, they were out

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Speaker 1: playing near the river and she fell in and bashed

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Speaker 1: her skull open on some rocks. Roberts watched her die,

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Speaker 1: uh and was as traumatized as you'd expect. That's about

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Speaker 1: the most traumatizing thing I can imagine happening doing eight

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Speaker 1: year old Yeah. Um, yeah, it doesn't get much worse

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Speaker 1: than that. There's like little foot seeing his mom die

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Speaker 1: and having your eight year old girlfriend bashed your skulling

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Speaker 1: on some rocks. They're right up there. So this trauma

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Speaker 1: was compounded several months later when Robert Kelly fell asleep

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Speaker 1: in front of the TV and woke up from a

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Speaker 1: quote crazy dream about threes company to find one of

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Speaker 1: his older female relatives fondling him. Yeah. He's never given

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Speaker 1: a name for this woman. But she appears to be

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Speaker 1: someone who is still around in his life. He has

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Speaker 1: not told his other family members who this was, and

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Speaker 1: when Chris Heath, a writer for g Q, interviewed him

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Speaker 1: about this later, he said, quote, I remember it feeling weird.

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Speaker 1: I remember feeling ashamed. I remember closing my eyes and

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Speaker 1: keeping my hands over my eyes. I remember those things,

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Speaker 1: but I couldn't judge it one way or the other fully, So,

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Speaker 1: Kelly says this mystery relative continued to molest him until

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Speaker 1: he was roughly fifteen years old. She was not the

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Speaker 1: only adult to go after child. Robert, a trusted male

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Speaker 1: friend of the family, once asked Kelly to masturbate in

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Speaker 1: front of him. He offered to pay r Kelly later

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Speaker 1: said it was a crazy, weird experience, but not a

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Speaker 1: full blown experience because it didn't go down contact sexual. No.

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Speaker 1: A visual, absolutely a visual from him showing me his

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Speaker 1: penis and all that stuff, which is whether or not

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Speaker 1: there's contact. That's something he's kind of negotiating. That's the

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Speaker 1: thing that survivors do, is like negotiating or maybe or

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Speaker 1: thinking all this experience isn't valid because because people have

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Speaker 1: quote unquote worse. He didn't touch me. So it was

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Speaker 1: like I should be like these feelings maybe are invalid,

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Speaker 1: but they're all valid, because as long as you cross

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Speaker 1: the line, it's you know, that's molestation an assault. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're a child and an adult comes up to

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Speaker 1: you ask you to masturbate and pulls out his genitals,

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Speaker 1: that's a sexual assault, use of their power. So he's

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Speaker 1: got a rough upbringing, and this is not all of it.

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Speaker 1: Robert Kelly was probably shot when he was thirteen. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to know for sure what happened because he's not

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Speaker 1: exactly a totally reliable narrator here. For years he told

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Speaker 1: interviewers he had been shot by thugs who wanted to

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Speaker 1: steal his huffey and his autobiography. He claims the bullet

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Speaker 1: was his, just a stray round from some gunfighter drive by,

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Speaker 1: though one of his close associates apparently told the Chicago

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Speaker 1: Sun Times that Robert shot himself during a botched suicide attempt.

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Speaker 1: This person says Kelly's version of the story is a

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Speaker 1: lie invented to cover up the suicide attempt. Most reports

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Speaker 1: say he has a bullet in his shoulder, though, and

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Speaker 1: if that's true, it does kind of make me think

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Speaker 1: it was probably more likely a stray round than suicide,

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Speaker 1: but I don't really know. You wouldn't shoot your shoulder.

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Speaker 1: Definitely very hard to miss as you want to, and

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Speaker 1: even if you missed, it probably wouldn't be like your heart,

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Speaker 1: like blow your jaw. And he was like, i'll do

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Speaker 1: it here. What it doesn't hurt? Yeah, because little Wayne

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Speaker 1: shot himself and like the back or something like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was just a gun and a couch and he

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Speaker 1: was playing accident. Yeah, yeah, it was an accident with him,

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Speaker 1: I think. So hard to say, but it looks like

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Speaker 1: he probably got shot too when he was thirteen, either

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Speaker 1: a suicide or tempt to just destroy a bullet because

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Speaker 1: he lived in a rough part of town. Whatever the truth,

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Speaker 1: it's really clear that Robert Kelly had a very very

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Speaker 1: rough childhood. Uh, not an upbringing I would risk on anybody.

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Speaker 1: But it was not all an R rated version of

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Speaker 1: a Dickens novel. He had a teacher, Lennon mcclin, who

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Speaker 1: recognized his nascent musical talent early on and nurtured it.

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Speaker 1: She convinced him to sing Stevie Wonders Ribbon in the

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Speaker 1: Sky for a high school talent show, Kelly's first performance

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Speaker 1: in front of an audience. He said about it later,

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Speaker 1: quote that night, it was like being Spider Man being bit.

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Speaker 1: I discovered this power. I knew I had something. Then

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Speaker 1: Ms mclinn got Kelly on TV for the first time,

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Speaker 1: singing at a Christmas tree lighting ceremony in Chicago. Now

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Speaker 1: Robert had no matt head for math or reading, and

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Speaker 1: it actually sounds, from what he says, like he might

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Speaker 1: be dyslexic. It sounds like mclin was instrumental and convincing

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Speaker 1: his mom and him that in essence, he should throw

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Speaker 1: all of his effort into singing, into performing, because that's

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Speaker 1: the thing he was clearly best at. Uh and that

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Speaker 1: definitely the right decision. Kelly started busting on a subway

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Speaker 1: as a teenager. On one particularly good day, he made

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Speaker 1: four hundred dollars. So he gets into performing and realizes like,

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Speaker 1: this is something he's got a crazy talent for. So

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Speaker 1: as a young adult, he began booking more formal gigs,

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Speaker 1: and it was during one set at a backyard barbecue

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Speaker 1: at age twenty four that R. Kelly was first discovered

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Speaker 1: by the industry. Wayne Williams, who worked for Jive records

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Speaker 1: just happened to be at that barbecue. Quote. I was

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Speaker 1: inside the house and Robert was performing outside. I saw

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Speaker 1: this guy who had all the steps down real choreographed.

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Speaker 1: You could tell he put a lot into it, which

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Speaker 1: is something you don't usually see, especially at a backyard barbecue.

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Speaker 1: It was the eye of the Tiger. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: if he means that R. Kelly was singing the Eye

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Speaker 1: of the Tiger, or if he was responding more generally

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00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 1: to like he was kung fu. He was rising up

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Speaker 1: to the challenge of his rival. Kelly began working with

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Speaker 1: Barry Hankerson, an agent with real standing in the music industry.

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Speaker 1: Hankerson got him signed with the band Public Announcement. Tersa

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you a picture of the band Public Announcement,

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Speaker 1: and I just want you to tell me what you

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Speaker 1: know about their music based on this picture. Uh, that's

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Speaker 1: it looked kind of almost like a like a boy

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Speaker 1: bands stance, you know, Yeah, but there's a woman in

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Speaker 1: the middle. There's a woman in the middle, so it's

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Speaker 1: a little off from that. But otherwise all the guys

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Speaker 1: look like boy band. I imagine there's some dancing involved

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Speaker 1: and very nineties hairs, like hair touching, slicking back, kind

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Speaker 1: of like nodding at the camera and pointing that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. And R Kelly is wearing what looks like

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Speaker 1: the nineties ist windbreaker. Has ever been purchased Windbreakers? Yeah,

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00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 1: he was on the cutting edge of that Windbreaker trend. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: they dropped an album and it did pretty well, but

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Speaker 1: Kelly almost immediate the outgrew public announcement. He released Breaker

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Speaker 1: and the wind Breaker. I mean we all kind of

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Speaker 1: outgrew the wind Breaker. He released his first solo album,

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Speaker 1: twelve Play. In wondering what the name twelve play means. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it definitely isn't alluding to his his challenge. Oh jeez,

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Speaker 1: that's even dark. That's really dark. That's what I thought

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Speaker 1: of first. I mean, it's still messed up. According to

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Speaker 1: the Chicago Sun Times, quote it's because Kelly quote claims

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Speaker 1: that while other lovers might give you four play, he

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00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:40,000
Speaker 1: gives you three times more. That's just like okay, all right.

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Speaker 1: I mean he's not good at math, so I mean

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Speaker 1: you gotta give it to him. He put math in.

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Speaker 1: He nailed the math. Yeah, there you go, especially for

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Speaker 1: his first album. You know, youve got to Conquer your fears.

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Speaker 1: He has math and words mixed up tracks on the

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Speaker 1: album twelve Play includes such subtle titles as Bump and Grind,

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Speaker 1: sex Me and this is my favorite. I like crotch

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Speaker 1: on you? What I like? All right, you gotta you

348
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,119
Speaker 1: gotta love how just like, Okay, you're really not hiding

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Speaker 1: anything there, buddy, Like I like the crotch on you.

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Speaker 1: Crotch is not a sexy word, Like it's not. It's

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Speaker 1: almost like I feel like crotch just sounds I don't know,

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00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 1: it sounds like it's like like it's not. I don't

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Speaker 1: relate it to sex, even though it's pointing to your generals.

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Speaker 1: I relate it to like, I don't know what, I

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Speaker 1: really just g I would think of jeans because of crotch,

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Speaker 1: but I think of like dirty jeans and like someone

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Speaker 1: who didn't do their laundry. That's what I think of

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Speaker 1: what I think of crotch. No couple in the Throws

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Speaker 1: of Passion have ever said, bring that crotch on it.

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Speaker 1: That would not It's just not an attractive word. Yeah,

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00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,919
Speaker 1: it's like something that Taylor tells you, the crotch of

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Speaker 1: your jeans or something that you're right, Okay, so ridiculous

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Speaker 1: as it sounded, Twelve Play became the number one R

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Speaker 1: and B album in America for nine straight weeks. Huge

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Speaker 1: success and apparently a great R and B album. Solo album, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a solo album. Um. I don't know much

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Speaker 1: about R and B, but the one thing pretty much

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Speaker 1: everybody seems an agreement on is that at his stride, R.

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Speaker 1: Kelly was a hell of an R and B singer,

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Speaker 1: so his career exploded after twelve Play came out. He

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Speaker 1: owed much of his success to his agent, of course,

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Speaker 1: Barry Hankerson, And it just so happens that Mr. Hankerson

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Speaker 1: had a niece, a fifteen year old girl named Aliyah

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Speaker 1: Dana Houghton. She had musical ambitions, a buttload of talent,

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Speaker 1: and shelah. Yeah, this is that Aliyah. She soon started

376
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Speaker 1: working with her uncle's top musician, the incredibly talented Robert Kelly.

377
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 1: He wrote a number of songs for her and acted

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Speaker 1: as a producer on her first album, Age Ain't Nothing

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00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 1: but a Number. Kelly wrote that title too, Yeah, I'm

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00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 1: not surprised. In interviews at the time, Alia talked about

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Speaker 1: the many, many long hours she and R. Kelly put

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00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 1: in together to make the album. They're both perfectionists, and

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00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,639
Speaker 1: this led to numerous late night spent in close proximity.

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Speaker 1: The album was a hit, selling more than three million copies,

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Speaker 1: and according to some people who know about R and B,

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Speaker 1: it was revolutionary in a number of ways in that genre.

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00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,359
Speaker 1: I can't comment on that, but that seems to be

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Speaker 1: the consensus. However good the album was, it also led

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00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 1: to something even less savory, or I guess, exactly as

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00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 1: unsavory as that title would suggest. Almost immediately after the

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00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,200
Speaker 1: album dropped, Robert and Aliah were married at that most

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00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 1: stereotypically romantic of destinations, the Sheraton Gateway, Sweets and Rose Weight.

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Speaker 1: They got married, Yeah, they sure did. She was fifteen.

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00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,440
Speaker 1: He was, oh god, yeah, that's not okay, that's not okay.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember this. I don't think we're being proved

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00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,120
Speaker 1: to be like, I'm fine with someone dropping a song

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00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 1: called I like the Crotch on you. You know that's

398
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 1: your own thing. Here, we've got something not okay. Were

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00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,199
Speaker 1: they married for a long time? No okay? Because I

400
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 1: was like, I do not remember this. How was this

401
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,280
Speaker 1: not the thing that made him? Because he wasn't big enough.

402
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 1: He was. This was big news. This was there was

403
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,359
Speaker 1: like a controversy over this that extends to today because

404
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 1: again Aliah was fifteen, and that's a thing. You can't

405
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 1: be a twenty seven year old married a fifteen year old.

406
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: It's not legal. So um Sometimes in a lot of

407
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,239
Speaker 1: states you can actually marry at that age, but your

408
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 1: family has to consent. And Elia's family had no idea

409
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 1: any of this was happening. In fact, the wedding was

410
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 1: a secret. The world only found out about it because

411
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 1: several months after the fact, Vibe published the marriage certificate,

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00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 1: which listed Aliah as eighteen. So fraudulent marriage certificate, big problems. Now,

413
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 1: the whole episode is somewhat murky and unclear, and there

414
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,439
Speaker 1: are a number of different narratives as to what precisely

415
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 1: went down. G q's account of things is based heavily

416
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Speaker 1: on the memory of Demetrius Smith, a somewhat shady character

417
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,199
Speaker 1: who worked for Kelly at the time he said this quote.

418
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 1: The week of the marriage, Smith recounts being in Miami

419
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 1: on tour with Kelly and how Kelly explained that he

420
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: had received a distraught phone call from Eliah saying she

421
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 1: had run away from home, believing she was pregnant. Smith

422
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: says that Kelly was then given some specious advice that

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Speaker 1: he could protect himself from the legal ramifications of the

424
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 1: situation by marrying her. Smith's account of what happened next.

425
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: During a break in the tour, Smith and Kelly flew

426
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 1: together to Illinois. Smith procured a fake state idea for

427
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 1: Eliah from a friend in the Public Aid office, and

428
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 1: they got a backup I D through someone they knew

429
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 1: it Federal Express. That night, after the ceremony in a

430
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,400
Speaker 1: suite at the Sheraton Hotel, Kelly and Smith flew back

431
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: to Miami to resume the tour. So is it it?

432
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 1: I mean they were trying to like do the paperwork

433
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 1: by getting married to make it legal, but then they

434
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 1: use fraudulent I DA. So it's the whole thing isn't legal.

435
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,680
Speaker 1: So what's the point of that. I mean a couple

436
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,440
Speaker 1: of things. Number one, keeping your head. This before the Internet,

437
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: so the odds that someone would find this were lower.

438
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: But if the marriage is null, if there it was

439
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 1: built up. Yeah, So that means Snow says, at all,

440
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: the whole thing isn't all they were hoping nobody would notice. O, God,

441
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 1: when did she come out with Are you that somebody?

442
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: Because there's tons of random baby noises in there that

443
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the fund is this? And I just

444
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 1: kind of just part of it. But now I'm like,

445
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: was it was a secret message? Like was she like

446
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 1: I'm pregnant? It might have been. I think that was

447
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,239
Speaker 1: after she was because if that wasn't from her, she

448
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: she lived into like twenty four, so that wasn't her

449
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: first album. That's not on ag Ain't nothing but a number? No,

450
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 1: that was with rome I think it was the movie

451
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: Romeo Must Die. Oh then, yeah, that would have been

452
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 1: way later an adult. At that point, she was sort

453
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 1: of trying to slip in the the story of her

454
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,719
Speaker 1: it's hard to say what happened. There's just one guy's relation.

455
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 1: But she didn't have the baby, right, I don't think so. No, No,

456
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 1: she did not um and we don't know if she

457
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: was actually pregnant. Again, this is like one person's version

458
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: of the story and yeah, I don't know this guy

459
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: is reliable. Yeah, and we we don't really know what

460
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: went down because there were you know, Alia's parents found

461
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 1: out and made them you know, they annulled the marriage

462
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: and everything, and there was like a big legal settlement

463
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: where he reportedly paid like a hundred dollars is like

464
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: a token thing, and then like they both agreed not

465
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 1: to say anything about this, and like no one said

466
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: anything about it in the years since. So we don't

467
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,479
Speaker 1: know what went down. But what I do know is

468
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: that there are some fine products and or services that Theresa,

469
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: You're just gonna love to hear about. Oh, I love

470
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: the ad. Yes, ads, we're back. We're talking about Aaliyah

471
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: and R Kelly's very short lived and super illegal man.

472
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: Literally she was short lived. Well yeah, yeah, she died

473
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 1: in a plane crash and she was like anyway, Um,

474
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: the settlement between Aliah and R Kelly, we don't again

475
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: know exactly what went down, but it's supposedly included a

476
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: promise from Aaliyah not to sue R Kelly in the

477
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 1: future due to quote emotional distress caused by any aspect

478
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: of her business or personal relationship with Robert. She also

479
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: agreed not to sue for quote physical injury or emotional

480
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: pain and suffering arising from any assault or battery perpetrated

481
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: by Robert against a person. Again, we don't know what

482
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 1: went down. We don't know what all was getting bandied about.

483
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: It was like, uh, he was like, its pre me too,

484
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: but like he already knew. It's like he was like, Okay,

485
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: this kind of ship will come out later, so I'm

486
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: just gonna totally cover my basis. Well it's it's it's

487
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: not even like pre me too. Me Too is just

488
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: people finally getting angry about this. This whole thing where

489
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: like rich people has always been happening for sure, but

490
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: like the NDAs were more like, oh, I feel like

491
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: it came from a lot of the men who make

492
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: people say or silence women. A lot of it in

493
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: the past came from like, oh, I don't want it

494
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: to hurt my reputation. But the fact that he was

495
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: already like, I know that you're going to go through

496
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: emotional trauma that might not surface until ten years from now,

497
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: and then you might want to talk about it. He's like,

498
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: hold up, you don't know you're gonna have this, but

499
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: I know because I've been through it, So don't talk

500
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: about it. Oh shit, Okay, Now that I feel like

501
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: he probably went through it and that's why he knows

502
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: that there's gonna be I don't think a lot of

503
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: men in the past were like, you're going to have

504
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: emotional trauma. I think they're just like, I don't want

505
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 1: to get caught. I didn't even catch that, but I

506
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: think you're right. Yeah, that's really insightful. It's kind of dark.

507
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's both sad because it's like he's

508
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: a victim or survivor himself, but also there's a cycle

509
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: and he's perpetuating it. Yeah. I think you're I think

510
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: you're really onto something there. Uh So. Neither r Kelly

511
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: nor Aliah have ever provided more detail about what went

512
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: down or the reasoning behind that weird settlement. In nine

513
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: Aliyah filed to expunge the marriage certificate from the county

514
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: court records. The most detail she ever gave in an

515
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: interview was with the Chicago Sun Times in nineteen ninety four,

516
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: where she said, Hey, don't believe all that mess. We're

517
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: close and people took it the wrong way, but that

518
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: was again, like right when it happened. Alia died in

519
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: a plane crash in two thousand one at the age

520
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: of twenty four. R Kelly has said almost nothing about

521
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: her in the two decades since her death. He doesn't

522
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: even mention her name once in his autobiography, Solo Coaster.

523
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: There is, however, a disclaimer at the beginning that notes

524
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: certain episodes could not be included for complicated reasons. That's

525
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: probably a reference to the court settlement. During that two

526
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: sixteen interview with g Q, Kelly described Aliyah as his best,

527
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: best best friend, which seems odd for someone he left

528
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: out of his autobiography, but in probably was legally restricted

529
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: from doing so. In R Kelly released his second solo album,

530
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: just titled R Kelly. Three songs on the album reached

531
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: number one on the R and B charts. Song titles

532
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: include Down Low, Nobody Has to Know a Little on

533
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: the Knows. On December, R Kelly was sued for ten

534
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: million dollars by Tiffany Hawkins, a high school student with

535
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: ambitions for a music career. She claimed she met Kelly

536
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: when he talked to her choir class. Her teacher, Miss mclenn,

537
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: loved having Kelly come over to talk to her new students.

538
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: Kelly seemed to have loved flirting with the literal children

539
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: in these classes. I'm going to quote Jim DeRogatis, the

540
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: indispensable reporter on the R. Kelly allegations here, I'm gonna

541
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: probably butcher this guy's last name. But how do you

542
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: think that de ro gaddis de de ro gaddis. That's

543
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: what we're gonna land on. Probably should have checked that

544
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: when I was reading about R. Kelly for eleven hours.

545
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: Quote asked about the charges in the Hawkins lawsuit that

546
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: Kelly had sexual relationships with some of the freshmen and

547
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: sophomore girls from mclen's choir, The teacher says, I don't

548
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: know what he did outside of school, but in the

549
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: school there was no hanky panky if they were involved

550
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,719
Speaker 1: in that. The sad thing is it takes two to tango.

551
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: Oh no, it doesn't take to not a full person.

552
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: You under yeah, you're really not. You can't be part

553
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: of it too. When you're not not a full going adult.

554
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: You teach teenagers. You know they're not real people, yet

555
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: you know that you teach them. It's like if you

556
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: put a puppy in a box and you're like, well

557
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: he didn't get out, and it's like, well that's different.

558
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: You have more power. You're a big person. Hawkins claimed

559
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: your sexual relationship with Kelly started in nineteen one, when

560
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: she was fifteen. In four she says Kelly ended the

561
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: relationship when she turned eighteen. Hawkins slit her wrists immediately afterwards,

562
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: a suicide attempt that she thankfully survived. Um Also, in

563
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, while Kelly was settling the lawsuit over

564
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: the teenager he allegedly molested into a suicide attempt, he

565
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: met an adult lady, Andrea Lee. Lee was a choreographer

566
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: and a dancer who had worked on his tour. Andrea

567
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,479
Speaker 1: and Robert married and eventually had three children. There are

568
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: a few signs that the marriage was something less than

569
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: super romantic. The pair were almost never photographed together. People

570
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: close to Kelly told the Chicago Sun Times that Andrea

571
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: was required to knock before entering any room in their

572
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 1: house while her husband was home, and in two thousand three,

573
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: several of Andrea's relatives complained to the Chicago Sun Times

574
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: that they weren't allowed to visit their daughter at the

575
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: home she shared with Kelly or talked to her on

576
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: the phone. So consider that whole paragraph just you and

577
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: see a bit of foreshadowing. What does he say in

578
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: his autobiography better Sola Coaster? But what Sola Coaster? Okay

579
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: a year later or sorry, a little later. In nine,

580
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: which was a very full year for our Kelly, he

581
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: ran into legal trouble again when he was arrested for

582
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: battery in Lafayette, Louisiana, after a fight between himself, his entourage,

583
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: and three random dudes at the basketball court for a

584
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: local gym. Now he gets a pass on this one

585
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: from me, because why would you go to a gym

586
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: basketball court if you didn't want to get into a

587
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: fist fight with somebody in their entourage. True, what happens

588
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: on the court stays on. Nope, that's probably not true. No,

589
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: it is. If there's one thing jim basketball courts, therefore,

590
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: it's fist fights with famous people, and that's a sacred

591
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: that's a sacred thing. I letuld say, as long as you,

592
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: I mean, to a certain degree, you don't want to

593
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: beat someone's face to a pulp. But if there's a

594
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: little bit of fighting on, like if it's more like

595
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: closer to wrestling on a on a on any court

596
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: of sport, as long as when the game ends you're

597
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: shaking hands, patting each other's back and saying good game,

598
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: then I think it's a little okay. But I think

599
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: if that's real aggression that's carried on past the game,

600
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: then you're like, oh, that was a real fight. I

601
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: think it all depends on whether or not someone has

602
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: an entourage, because if there's an entourage, there's no option

603
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: but to have like a really showy, choreographed fist fight.

604
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: It's like a gang. We don't really have the big

605
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: goal of West Side story gangs the way. I don't

606
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: even know they ever really did do those dancy dancy fights.

607
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: But now I feel like you got fight on the court.

608
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: I imagine if I ever got into a fight with

609
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: Aston Kutcher, he would have a dancing and singing entourage

610
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: that I would have to fight my way through first.

611
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, despite all of its ups and mostly down,

612
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: it on a high note for Robert Kelly. The movie

613
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: Space Jam was released in December of that year, permanently

614
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: delighting my former boss Daniel O'Brien and making our key

615
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: a household name. His hit song I Believe I Can

616
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: Fly was basically everywhere for like six months. It was

617
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: the number two song in America. I was like eight

618
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: at the time, and a tremendous number of my early

619
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: memories involved hearing r Kelly's voice over the shitty speakers

620
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 1: at a Blockbuster or Piggy Wiggly or what have you.

621
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: Also a bad man, Michael Jordan's so well, I don't

622
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: know much about Michael Jordan. Ben not a nice guy.

623
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: No comment until I do the digging on him for

624
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: the Michael Jordan episode. Kelly's mother died in March of

625
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: nineteen seven. This was a devastating blow to the self

626
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: described Mama's boy, as it would have been for anyone.

627
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: Shortly after this, Robert announced on stage with a gospel

628
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: preacher that he had given himself over to Jesus. His

629
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: autobiography contains numerous religious references. He's been very consistent about

630
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: the importance of faith to him over the years. Uh yeah. R.

631
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: Kelly's desire to get right with God, however, did not

632
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: inspire him to get right with the Justice Department. In June,

633
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: he missed his key ring on the battery case over

634
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: that basketball court fight. He wounded up having to settle

635
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: out of court with the men for an undisclosed sum.

636
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: The next month, settling with people for undisclosed sums of

637
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: money would grow to become R. Kelly's number one hobby

638
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: over the next twenty years. In he settled his lawsuit

639
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: with Tiffany Hawkins, the teenager he attempted suicide, reportedly for

640
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The settlement came four

641
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: days after Hawkins delivered a horrifying seven or deposition, and

642
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: in a way, it was too little, too late. News

643
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: of Kelly's escapades with Hawkins began to leak. A young

644
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: woman who had been prepared to testify about being in

645
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: the threesome with Hawkins and Kelly Wall Hawkins was under age,

646
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: told the Chicago Suntimes quote, I'm not trying to down

647
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: him because I honestly think it has to be a sickness.

648
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: Looking at pictures of me and Tiffany when we were

649
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: a freshman boy, we were ugly little girls compared to

650
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: what he could have had, So I didn't understand why

651
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: he did what he did. Oh and that's also like sad,

652
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 1: sort of trying to justify and make things feel normal,

653
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: like as a survivor. I feel like she's also like

654
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: trying to explain or you know, make it move on

655
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: without being stuck in the moment. Yeah, I'm not gonna

656
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna judge her for that. But it is weird. Yeah.

657
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: That whole article was published in two thousand. It includes

658
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: a lot of really unsettling information. Quote. According to Hawkins's lawsuit,

659
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: Kelly had sex with underage girls in his apartments at

660
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: nine s Wabash North Harbor Drive in other locations in Chicago.

661
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: In response to ss from Hawkins's attorneys, Kelly admitted that

662
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: he employed Hawkins as a background vocalist and periodically gave

663
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: her small cash gifts and approximately fourteen hundred dollars in checks,

664
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: but he denied having any sexual contact with the girl.

665
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: Um Now Hawkins friend who was prepared to testify, I

666
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: did make it clear that R. Kelly did not force

667
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: himself on her sexually. He treated us very well, she said.

668
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: We got anything we asked for, but we weren't going

669
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: to ask for much. A pair of air Jordan's or

670
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars was a lot of money to us.

671
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: I still love R. Kelly's music. I don't hate him,

672
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: she added. He reminds me of a boyfriend who hurt

673
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: you that you still love. He hurt me by not

674
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: helping me out and telling me to drop out of school.

675
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: He told me and Tiffany both. If you want to

676
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: be serious about the music, you have to be at

677
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: the studio and not at school because school isn't going

678
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: to make you a millionaire at sixteen. That's like a

679
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: dream to us to work with R. Kelly, so we

680
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: listened to him. I think it's a sickness. Yeah, I mean,

681
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: that's rough. She's definitely negotiating with herself and there's no

682
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: you know, right or wrong from a survised point of view,

683
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: because it's like how she feels. That's how she feels,

684
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes to move on you have to

685
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: the narrative in her head. It doesn't mean it's wrong,

686
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like it clearly he crossed

687
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: a line from an objective point of view, but from

688
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: her point of view, I don't think we could fall

689
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: her for wanting to think of him fondly, because otherwise

690
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: she has to move on with her life feeling like

691
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: this bad thing happened, which it did. But it's okay

692
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: if she wants to live her life feeling a little

693
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: bit more normal. And it's also it's uh, you know.

694
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 1: The bargain he put these young women in was essentially

695
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 1: the way he was making the think of it as like, Okay,

696
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: parts of this may be creepy. I may not like

697
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: parts of this, but like other parts are to her

698
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: good get to be a millionaire, even if she felt

699
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: like she consented, or maybe he didn't ever, maybe he

700
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 1: didn't ever quote unquote force himself, but just by nature

701
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: of him being an adult and then being kids and

702
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: him treating them that way already, she's like grooming them

703
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: to feel like they owe him. And I would argue

704
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: that even if they'd both been eighteen, the money here

705
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: would have been an element of force, not that he

706
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: was offering them, but because the conversion. Yeah, it's coercion

707
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: of like if I put up with us for a while,

708
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: then I'll have a career in the music industry and

709
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: I'll never have to worry again. You know. He's definitely

710
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: abusing his power. Yeah, yeah, in a couple of ways.

711
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: Like his power is like an older man who's wiser

712
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: in the world than these fifteen year olds, and his

713
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: power as a gatekeeper to celebrity. But there's also like

714
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: there's so much new. I mean, bottom line, it's wrong,

715
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: you know, he crossed the line. Bottom line that was

716
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: I want to preface that, but I also want to

717
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: the nuance of like someone he was a survivor as

718
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: a kid, and part of him, maybe that like the

719
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: part that you know he never dealt with, maybe wanted

720
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: to rewrite a little bit. So maybe he did treat

721
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: them really well and didn't force them in a in

722
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: a way to kind of rewrite like what if when

723
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: this happened to me, it was sweet and kind and

724
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: they didn't force it, So in a way he may

725
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: have been trying to rewrite his own path. That way

726
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: still bottom line wrong and there should have been more

727
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 1: resources in place to help him get through his trauma

728
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: so that he knew how to probably deal with it.

729
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: But there is a world. But maybe like maybe he

730
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: thought treating them well and then going to sex would

731
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 1: kind of be like, oh, there can exist a relationship

732
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: that's uh yeah, because he's trying to justify what happened

733
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: to him. Yeah, he's not like most people who do

734
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: really bad things, and I doubt he's going into this

735
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: was like no, I think the way he wanted to

736
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: sort of put some sort of meaning to what happened

737
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 1: to him and and make it feel like it wasn't

738
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: so bad because in his mind, he's like well, if

739
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: I could have a relationship with kids that feels even

740
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: or in his mind it's even like he's like they

741
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: like this, then that can mean maybe when I was

742
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: a kid, it wasn't so bad. Like he's trying to

743
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: rewrite a little bit what happened. Yeah, I can see

744
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: something like that going on in his head. I can

745
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: see that being like a way to sort of deal

746
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: with like crush your conscience a little bit because you

747
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: start to be like this is fun up doing er

748
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: shame about himself. Yeah, yeah, or his actions in this

749
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: particular instance, well, let's read the next paragraph. In two

750
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: thousand one, Tracy Sampson sued Robert Kelly for bringing her

751
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: into an indecent sexual relationship when she was just seventeen.

752
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: She claimed she was treated as his personal sex object

753
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: and quote, he often tried to control every aspect of

754
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: my life, including who I would see and where I

755
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: would go. Her case was settled out of court for

756
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: an undisclosed sum. Kelly was sued in successive months in

757
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: two thousand two, once in April and againd in May

758
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: by two different women. One claimed he impregnated her while

759
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 1: she was under age. Another claimed he'd filmed a sex

760
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: tape of them without her knowledge or consent. According to

761
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: the BBC quote, the recording was allegedly circulated on an R.

762
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: Kelly sex tape sold by bootleggers under the title R

763
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 1: Kelly Triple X. In both of these cases, R Kelly

764
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: settled out of court for undisclosed sums. I feel like

765
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: that song tracks should have been called age is just

766
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: an undisclosed sum. That's really good. That's really good both

767
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: of these women found in d A's. I found a

768
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: telling quote, though, from a BuzzFeed article that interviewed a

769
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: lawyer who's been involved with several of R. Kelly's settlements.

770
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: Chicago attorney Susany Logan's claimed to say how many settlements

771
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: she has negotiated with Kelly before lawsuits were ever filed,

772
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: but she said they were numerous, and recently included one

773
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: for a seventeen year old aspiring singer from Chicago's West

774
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: Side who was said to have been part of Kelly's

775
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: inner circle. So it seems like for every one of

776
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: these cases I've read, there's many, many, many others that

777
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: never proceeded to trial because the victim just went to

778
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: Kelly straight away and they worked out a settlement. So,

779
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: like the people were talking about on this are probably

780
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: not the only people who could come forward with allegations

781
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 1: if they hadn't already gotten paid and signed an n

782
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: d A. You know, it's like with a Weinstein thing.

783
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: Literally the month after those two cases, Robert Kelly was

784
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: charged again, this time with filming illegal sex videos. This

785
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: is the R. Kelly case. You've all heard about the

786
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: p tape because the actress in this tape that was

787
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: circulating underground was allegedly underage. Kelly was charged with twenty

788
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: one counts of making child pornography. So the backstory of

789
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 1: this one is a little bit interesting. So we're gonna

790
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: peer back for a little bit to November of two thousand,

791
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: when Kelly released the album t P two to a

792
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: number one debut on the Billboard Albums Chart. Uh. It

793
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: featured two number one R and B hits I Wish

794
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: in Fiesta. It also featured songs like the Greatest Sex

795
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: and Feeling on Your Booty. Uh. The album reviewer for

796
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: the Chicago Sun Times was Jim DeRogatis. He wrote this

797
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: about it. One minute he's grabbing his privates and bragging

798
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: of being like a real freak. The next he's drawing

799
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: on his gospel roots and once again paying homage to

800
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: his dear departed mom on the lush and touching single

801
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: I Wish Prince, Marvin Gay, and Al Green all showed

802
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: that in the right circumstances, sex and prayer can be

803
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: the same thing. Kelly has yet to combine the two

804
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: in one song, so he has yet to make the

805
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: transcendent record he's been promising throughout his career. His lyrical

806
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 1: shifts from church to street corner are still so jarring

807
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 1: that they can give you whiplash, So you can tell there.

808
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: DeRogatis hardly came into the Kelly case as a hater,

809
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: but it was probably this review that would contain the

810
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: seeds of Robert Kelly's downfall, or at least probable downfall.

811
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: One of our Kelly's assistants read the review and sent

812
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: this letter to Derogatas you wrote about R. Kelly and

813
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: compared him to Marvin Gay, Well, I guess Marvin Gay

814
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 1: had problems too, but I don't think they were like Roberts.

815
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: Robert's problem is younger. I've known Robert for many years,

816
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: and I've tried to get him to get help, but

817
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: he just won't do it. So I'm telling you about it,

818
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 1: hoping that you or someone at your newspaper will write

819
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: an article about it and then Robert will have no

820
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 1: choice but to get help and to stop hurting people

821
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,439
Speaker 1: he's hurting at. This is one of his assistants. Yeah,

822
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 1: so we will talk about what comes this later, but

823
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 1: before we get back to the r Kelly sex tape.

824
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: You know what's better than a sex tape that is

825
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 1: probable child pornography? This is not a good ad. Plug boy,

826
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: were inspiring anything? Celsius the only energy drink currently on

827
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: this table that's also not involved at all in r

828
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: kelly sex alleged sex crimes. Here's some other ads that

829
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: paid us. We're back, uh, and we've just been slammed

830
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: into our first free real ad of the day for

831
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: diet Mountain Dew, the only caffeinated beverage currently in my hand,

832
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to make another coffee. Why are

833
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: you holding a skateboard? Because Rao, do the do the

834
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: sound of a half pipe? I thought you're gonna say,

835
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: do the sound of a hang loose? No, there's no

836
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: sound of that. You just got to put it in

837
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: your voice. I can hear it when you when you

838
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 1: do the the hand gestures yeah, you're hanging loose. There's

839
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: no way to do that sign without sticking your tongue out.

840
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: It's required. It's the law. Speaking of the law, let's

841
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: talk about R. Kelly charges of child pornography making when

842
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: we when we last left off Jimmy Rogas at the UH,

843
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 1: I will be pronouncing differently almost every time we talk

844
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: about him. Reporter at the Chicago Sun Times, I had

845
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: just gotten an anonymous letter from one of Kelly's assistants,

846
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: being like, R. Kelly's got a real problem with young

847
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: people and somebody needs to do something about this. So,

848
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: as a journalist, getting a letter like that is a

849
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: legally prickle leafing. Anytime you're considering breaking a story that

850
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: would accuse somewhat of multiple felonies, you've got to be

851
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: on guard. A letter like that on its own is

852
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: not super journalistically actionable. Running the letter alone would not

853
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: be the best practice, so nothing happened at first. This

854
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: may have prompted the person in Kelly's orbit to push again.

855
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: A videotape was sent to the Chicago Sun Times by

856
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: some anonymous person. The tape showed Kelly having sex with

857
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: an extremely young person. Because this was super likely to

858
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: be evidence of a crime, and because if it was

859
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: evidence of a crime, it would also be child pornography,

860
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: the Chicago Suntimes went to the cops. The police could

861
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: because how isn't that if you even look at it.

862
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: That's so if you get sent a video like that,

863
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: you have to call the feds. Yeah, you have to

864
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: immediately bring him well, and I think they go to

865
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: the local. I'm not sure if they go to they

866
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: go to the cops, certainly not with child porn um.

867
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: So but the police opened up an investigation, but there

868
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: really wasn't much that they could do um because they

869
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: didn't have like, you don't know the age of the person.

870
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: You don't know for sure that this is our Kelly.

871
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: You just have these claims. So they kind of wait

872
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: for a little while, and you know, somehow, you know,

873
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: right around this time, tapes of R. Kelly. Bootleg sex

874
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: tapes of R. Kelly with young women start floating around.

875
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: There's multiple tapes. They are not all underage people. Kelly

876
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: apparently has sex taped, his sex taped regularly, so somebody

877
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: in his orbit was leaking these not just to the press.

878
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: I have not watched the R. Kelly P tape, but

879
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: this is when the R. Kelly P tape that's famous

880
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: gets out into the world. So people were watching because

881
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: I remember hearing the news and I guess people so

882
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: people are watching it. But if you watch it, isn't

883
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: that they weren't all child pornography. Okay, but it wasn't that.

884
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: I don't know much. I just remember I didn't even

885
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: know she was on age. I remember there was a

886
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: P tape and the dungeon and then there was like

887
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: a dungeon. Yeah, yeah, and that's part of this house

888
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: and stuff. Yeah. So whoever started sending these anonymous tapes

889
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: to the Sun Times eventually got fed up that nothing

890
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: had happened yet. This person left another video in Jim

891
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: Druggets his mailbox. He sent it to the police as well,

892
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: and they were finally able to make an i D.

893
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: They found a source who claimed to recognize the young

894
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: woman in the video as her niece. She basically was

895
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: able to name the kid and, like Kelly says, the

896
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 1: first name in the video. So the police were pretty

897
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: sure that they had the right person, and so the

898
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: cops give the Chicago Sun Times the go ahead to

899
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: publish their first story on the matter. That's terrifying. I mean,

900
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: I know they're just investigating. They have to do their job,

901
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: but that's terrifying to have to, Like your sex tape

902
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: is not only getting leaked, but then people are like,

903
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: do you know this girl? And like asking your family members. Well,

904
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: they weren't going straight to Kelly at first, No, they weren't.

905
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: They asking she recognized the girl as her niece. Yeah,

906
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: they That means her honor uncle watched the sex tape

907
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: to identify her. They probably saved, like had just a

908
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: cliff up the girl's face or something. I doubt they

909
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: played the whole tape for this lady, but like they

910
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: heard a first name, and I think they narrowed it

911
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: down because they had some Like they feel like they

912
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: have enough that the police charge him with twenty one

913
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: counts of child pornographyz because the aunt of this girl

914
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: claims she would have been around fourteen at the time

915
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: of the filming. So R Kelly, who had just performed

916
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: at the opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics, was forced

917
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: to respond personally, quote, it's not true. All I know

918
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 1: is this I have a few people in the past

919
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: that I fired, people that I thought were my friends.

920
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: That that's not my friends, it's crap, and that's who

921
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: we're going to treat it. The reason these things are happening,

922
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: I really do believe, is because of the fact that

923
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: I didn't fall back as far as blackmail was concerned.

924
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: I didn't give them any money. So our Kelly was

925
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: indicted for a child born on June five, two and two.

926
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: He pled not guilty the next day and posted bail

927
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: using seven hundred and fifty hundred dollar bills. Once he

928
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: got back from court, he immediately violated a court order

929
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: by singing at a kindergarten graduation ceremony, wait, like single

930
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 1: dollar bills that way? I was like, what he just

931
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: has just to be a petty like no, why no,

932
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: he just had a shipload of Oh my gosha, that

933
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, So at this point the grinding wheels

934
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: of the justice system set into motion. Jury selection did

935
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: not begin until June of two, six years after the

936
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: charges were filed. This is not normal, as an MTV

937
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: article pointed out at the time. Quote in the last

938
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: six years, Michael Jackson was charged, tried, and acquitted of molestation.

939
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: Phil Specter was charged and tried for murder, and due

940
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: to a mistrial, who have to do it all again?

941
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: Lit Kim was charged, tried, and convicted of a conspiracy

942
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: and perjury, and she even found time to shoot a

943
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: reality show while she served her sentence. So all that

944
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: happened while R Kelly's case was waiting to actually go

945
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: to trial. Now, delaying this case was very definitely a

946
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: strategy used by R Kelly's defense. They probably figured that

947
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 1: since his alleged victim was expected to take the stand,

948
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: it would be better optics if she were in her

949
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 1: twenties rather than still a teenager when she had to

950
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: do it. So, first off, they waved Kelly's right to

951
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: a speedy trial, which would have required the case to

952
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: take place in four months or the charges wouldn't have

953
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: to be dropped. They also filed thirty some odd pre

954
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 1: trial motions, all of which demanded a response from the

955
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: prosecution and usually led to an argument in court. This

956
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: always delayed things further. There were also some freak happenings

957
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: that disrupted matters. The judge fell off a ladder and

958
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: injured himself. R Kelly's appendix burst lawyer died fell off

959
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 1: a ladder. There's some weirdness around the judge in this case.

960
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: We'll get to some more of that later. During the

961
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: six years while he waited, Robert did not exactly shut

962
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: up and just sort of hunger down. Like a month

963
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: after the charges were filed. Here at least a single Heaven,

964
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: I need a hug, which was basically his plea of

965
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: innocence in the court of public opinion. Here's some lines

966
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: from Heaven, I need a hug. And as for Robert,

967
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: here's what I need to do. Get rid of them

968
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: clowns and get myself a whole another crew. Media, do

969
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,439
Speaker 1: your job, but please just don't make my job so hard.

970
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: Somebody please pray what I'm talking about. I'm still young,

971
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: trying to figure it all out. Heaven, I need a hug.

972
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: Is there anybody out there willing to embrace a thug? So, yeah,

973
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: he needs a hug. He's using his music as a

974
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: way to get i mean people get on his side.

975
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: It's powerful tool. The question of his guilt or innocence

976
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: is actually a semi regular theme in r Kellyes music.

977
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: For example, in the album Chocolate Factory, during a ten

978
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: minute mini opera our, Kelly finds himself at the gates

979
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 1: of Heaven. St. Peter denies him for his sins, but

980
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: then Jesus absolves him. The same scene apparently plays out

981
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: in the album Loveland as well in the middle of

982
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 1: a twenty minute remix of I Believe I Can Fly.

983
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: So it's a regular reoccurring theme in Kelly's music. His

984
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: career continued to chug along in the early aughts, but

985
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 1: even his work wasn't free of drama. In October of

986
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: two thousand four, he and Jay Z released their second

987
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: collaborative album, which did predictably well. They started touring together

988
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: and things were not smooth. During a performance in St.

989
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: Louis on October twenty three, Kelly left the show after

990
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: getting into a screaming argument with the lighting technicians. He

991
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: actually left the venue, drove to a random McDonald's and

992
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: spent hours serving food to customers through the drive through window. Yeah,

993
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: the Chicago Suntimes this coverage sheds a little light and

994
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: how Kelly's people's fun this It's weird. Kelly's attorney, Ed

995
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: Ginson confirmed reports Monday that Kelly headed from St. Louis's

996
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: Savath Center to a McDonald's restaurant that had closed but

997
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: which he persuaded to reopen for the entourage traveling on

998
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: his bus. Then he decided he wanted to work the

999
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,439
Speaker 1: drive through. Gainson said it was on the radio. People

1000
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: were running out of their houses to have R. Kelly

1001
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: served them. Kelly is a big McDonald's fan who has

1002
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: stopped and worked at the drive through windows of McDonald's

1003
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: restaurants before. In a primetime live interview that air in October,

1004
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: he talked about frequent visits there with his late mother.

1005
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: We'd go to McDonald's almost every morning. She drink her

1006
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,919
Speaker 1: cup of coffee. She'd wear this cheap lipstick and she'd

1007
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 1: leave this red lipstick around the cup. Kelly said that, well,

1008
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: first of all, to McDonald's have been so big that

1009
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: that's not even a thing you associate with McDonald's. It's

1010
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: just a household. It's just like going to the store,

1011
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: you know what I mean to be like he started people,

1012
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: it's like if you were a small brand, it would

1013
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: be and R. Kelly was just decided to work for

1014
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: you for a day, like that would be the biggest

1015
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: thing that happened to you. But that's so big you're

1016
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 1: just like, you don't even associate that with the brand.

1017
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: I feel like this has to have been a franchise

1018
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: e though, because I feel like McDonald's corporate if some

1019
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: if they didn't ask, like she we had this guy

1020
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 1: who's being indicted for child pornography drive, I feel like

1021
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: the allowed to go in to eat. Well, yeah, but

1022
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: I feel like Ronald McDonald would probably be like, yeah,

1023
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:08,959
Speaker 1: we don't want that kind of work in the window. Yeah.

1024
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: It was some like local franchise owner who was like,

1025
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: well it would be good business McDonald's and St. Louis. Yeah.

1026
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: I feel like would you have gone if you were

1027
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: there at that time, like knowing what's going on, but

1028
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: like he's not found guilty yet, Like, as a normal person,

1029
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: would you be like, I'm gonna go get food from

1030
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: the r Kelley at the drive through? You know what?

1031
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: I'll say this as someone who was born in St.

1032
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: Louis and who has been there a number of times

1033
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 1: in my life. If I was going to get handed

1034
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: French fries by a child pornographer, I would expect it

1035
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: to be at a McDonald's and St. Louis. Yeah, that's

1036
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: the kind of thing. Looking back, I'm like, oh, on principal,

1037
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want anything to do with him. But I'm like,

1038
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: if I was there at that time and someone was like, dude,

1039
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: RKelly is handing out burgers down the street, I mean, like,

1040
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be totally honest, I probably would drive through,

1041
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: Like I don't. Like, I'm not saying that's the right

1042
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: thing to do, and you can like whatever come at me,

1043
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: but I'm being honest. I think I would have gone. So, okay,

1044
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: let me let me only posit this to you. If

1045
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 1: like mel Gibson, No, because I don't care about mel Gibson.

1046
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: I don't like it would have to be someone you

1047
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: care about. I guess I don't care about our Yeah,

1048
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: what is the difference. Maybe the public opinion thing did

1049
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 1: make a difference him singing about himself because I'm like,

1050
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like he seems more human.

1051
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: I mean he was super popular though too, I mean

1052
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: already outside of all this, So I don't know. I

1053
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: think if it was someone like, Okay, William Shatner is

1054
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: a famous person I love who I'm sure has done

1055
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 1: horrible things that I just haven't heard about him. He

1056
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: has to look at it, look but he just looks

1057
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: like a character actor who like plays that. I think

1058
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 1: you could be told. We don't know if if any

1059
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: member of Hollywood has killed someone from money, it's Bill Shatner. Okay,

1060
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: I'm saying that right now. I have no evidence of this,

1061
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 1: completely unsubstantiated. It here first, if any a list star

1062
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: is a hit man, it's it's Bill Shatner in his

1063
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: younger days, when he was a lumberjack, that classic Canadian

1064
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 1: stereotype of the lumberjack slash. Would you get handed burgers

1065
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: by like a serial killer? No, but if, like I

1066
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: want and I knew it, I think a lot of

1067
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: people would do it. If Robert Durst was handing out

1068
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: burgers people, people would go. But I don't think I

1069
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: would want to. I don't want a killer to look

1070
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,439
Speaker 1: me in the eye ever, because it's like I don't

1071
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: know how they choose their victims. Like if they know

1072
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: my face, I might be dead intention you know what

1073
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: I mean. Like I don't know, maybe one day they'd

1074
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: be like, I remember that face, so just randomly I'll

1075
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 1: just kill her, you know what I mean. I don't

1076
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: know anyway, Sorry for derailing is Nellie from St. Louis

1077
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: what is Nellie from SAT. I have no idea anyway,

1078
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: because I give other artists from s where I landed.

1079
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 1: As if, like Bill Shatner was on trial for some

1080
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: terrible crime and he was on his way to court

1081
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: working at a McDonald's, I would try to get some

1082
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: McNuggets from from William Shatner. You would, I would? I

1083
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: think I would. So. Yeah, that that's your answer is

1084
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: I can see why people would do this. Uh So

1085
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: quite the digression. On October twenty nine two, a few

1086
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: days after Kelly's night at McDonald's, Guy R. Kelly's stopped

1087
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: a performance in Madison Square Gardens, saying a fan had

1088
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 1: waved a gun at him. He wound up in a

1089
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 1: fight backstage was one of jay Z's people and got

1090
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: pepper sprayed. He went to the hospital. There were a

1091
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: shipload of lawsuits and the tour collapsed in on itself.

1092
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,760
Speaker 1: Um so. On July two thousand five, during pre trial

1093
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: proceedings in Kelly's court case, a twenty one year old

1094
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: woman testified that the girl in kelly sex stape was

1095
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: fourteen when the video had been filmed, saying it quote

1096
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: it was the summer after eighth grade. The judge did

1097
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: not considered Yeah, that's bad, right, eighth grade sounds so

1098
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: much younger than four. Yeah, fourteen sounds I mean, it's

1099
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: still bad, but eighth grade really drives at home what's

1100
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: going on here? The judge did not consider this enough

1101
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: and threatened to toss out the court case unless a

1102
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: more afirmative I D could be made. Two months after this,

1103
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: Robert's wife, Andrea filed for an order of protection against

1104
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: her husband. She claimed that she had asked him for

1105
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: a divorce and he'd hit her. She rescinded the order

1106
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: shortly thereafter, but they went up getting a divorce in

1107
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: two thousand eight. Anyway, we will hear from Andrea a

1108
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: little bit at the end of all this. Back in

1109
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: February of six, while everybody was still waiting for the

1110
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: Kelly trial to start, Robert Kelly's brother, Carrie or kill A. Kelly,

1111
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: came out with a DVD filled with allegations against his sibling.

1112
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 1: Among other things, Yeah Killer Kelly claims that R. Kelly

1113
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: offered him fifty thou dollars in cash and a record

1114
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: deal to pretend to be the man on the tape.

1115
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: He also alleged that his brother was abusive to his wife,

1116
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: and had a problem with underage girls. None of that

1117
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 1: seems out of the pail. I will say that the

1118
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 1: credibility of killer Kelly's allegations is somewhat put into question

1119
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: by the way that he chose to drop this bombshell

1120
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: one A DVD is not the most credible way to

1121
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 1: present Alex title page and like Bonus Features, couldn't find

1122
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: the title. I found it. It It was published by Drama

1123
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: Magazine with an H in the word drawing, So it's

1124
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: again I'm gonna guess he got money for this. The

1125
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 1: age came before the d trauma Trauma, Yeah, so maybe

1126
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: it was all a cynical cash grab. That said, it

1127
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: is consistent with all the other allegations that have been made,

1128
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't be the weirdest thing in the world

1129
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: if R Kelly tried to have his brother take the

1130
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 1: fall form Now, even under the cloud of legal funckory

1131
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: looming over him, Robert Kelly had continued to release albums

1132
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: that continue to be gigantic hits, and this is important

1133
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: to note and part of why Kelly's fans defend him

1134
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: so vociferously. R Kelly has been the biggest name in

1135
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: R and B throughout most of this. In May two seven, R.

1136
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: Kelly gave an interview to Hip hop Soul magazine. In

1137
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: it he said, I'm the Ali of today. I'm the

1138
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: Marvin Gay of today. I'm the Bob Marley of today.

1139
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: I'm the Martin Luther King or all the other grades

1140
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:53,959
Speaker 1: that have come before us, and a lot of people

1141
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: are starting to realize that now. In February of two eight,

1142
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,959
Speaker 1: a couple of months before jury selection began on the trial,

1143
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: Regina Daniels, Kelly's longtime spokeswoman and the person who had

1144
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: officially denied the allegations of his wrongdoings to the press

1145
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: for like a decade, left his employ with her husband,

1146
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: George Daniels. In the interview, George explained, he crossed the

1147
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: line with my daughter. It didn't get to the extreme

1148
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,280
Speaker 1: of that the sex tape video, or else I wouldn't

1149
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: be here if you know what I'm talking about. The

1150
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: reason I'm that I'm talking about this. It's not just

1151
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 1: for me, it's not just for my wife, it's not

1152
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 1: just for my daughter, but it's for other fathers and mothers.

1153
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:27,919
Speaker 1: Because it doesn't have to be a superstar. It could

1154
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 1: be the dude on the corner. There are guys who

1155
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: sit around and give your child a couple bucks to

1156
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 1: go to school and then wait until they get a

1157
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,879
Speaker 1: little older, and then they set that trap that's grooming. Yeah, yeah,

1158
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 1: it's grooming. And this is now again. The husband and

1159
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: his spokeswoman, uh, both of them would work for him

1160
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: coming out and saying this. A lot of people in

1161
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 1: his orbit have come out later with allegations. On June two, eight, R.

1162
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 1: Kelly was found not guilty by a jury of his peers.

1163
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: The prosecution star witness, the woman in the tape, never

1164
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: took the stand. Jim DeRogatis, the Chicago Suntimes reporter who

1165
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,720
Speaker 1: broke the story, took the fifth and did not testify.

1166
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 1: I think some of it is that he might have

1167
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: had to admit that he'd seen the tape, which would

1168
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: have been legally scary, and he also had some like

1169
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: worries that he would be required to give up like

1170
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: sources and stuff like that, so he did not testify,

1171
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: which is always a fraught thing for a journalist in

1172
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 1: a court case. There's a lot of reasons that would

1173
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: be complicated. Four days later, judge gone through a post

1174
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: trial party at a bar to celebrate the end of

1175
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: the case. He invited the defense, the prosecution, court workers,

1176
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: and reporters. One of those reporters people, do it happened

1177
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: this time? Is that I've never heard of this before. Like, hey, guys,

1178
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: like rat party and the people who are everybody prosecution defends,

1179
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: let's all get on, get down. Its so bizarre, it's

1180
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: really weird. But one of the reporters who was present

1181
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: says that it was a hoot and that everyone there

1182
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 1: was loose and relaxed. So that's nice. Oh, you almost

1183
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: put me in jail. Let's all party a part. I

1184
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: don't think Kelly went. I'm gonna guess maybe that was

1185
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: the judge's hope that he'd get to party with R.

1186
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: Kelly again, there's some weirdness with the judge. Yeah, some weirdness.

1187
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: Uh So R Kelly was not guilty, and if he

1188
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: were truly innocent of all of the allegations against him,

1189
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 1: this story might have ended there. But this is not

1190
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: the sort of podcast where we talk about wrongly accused people.

1191
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: Um So, in the years since R. Kelly was declared

1192
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: not guilty, things have only gotten darker and a whole

1193
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: lot creepier. All of that will be coming to you

1194
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: the listener on Thursday, and we dropped part two of

1195
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: the working title has been R Kelly, what the hell man?

1196
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: How are you doing? Okay? I didn't realize that you

1197
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: were going to leave me on a cliffhanger. Then I'm

1198
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: gonna leave you on a cliffhanger, so I'm not going

1199
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: to know that. That's when the airhorns should have kicked in.

1200
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: I don't like the defense that people say of like, oh, well,

1201
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: great artist, blah blah, were here all the time, great artist,

1202
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 1: and you know what we're gonna do, not not off

1203
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: their art. Yeah. I think it would have helped public

1204
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: opinion if when someone's under trial for tild pornography that

1205
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: they're forbidden to put out art, because then people can just,

1206
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, fine, appreciate the stuff that came before, but like,

1207
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: we don't need to continue liking the guy. We might

1208
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 1: it might be true he's talented, but like, while you're

1209
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: on a trial for something bad, you shouldn't be allowed

1210
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 1: to put out any more of your art. That's a privilege,

1211
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: it's not a right. Well, I mean, when you're on

1212
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: trial but you're not guilty, like you can't stop someone

1213
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: from putting out art when they're innocent until proven good.

1214
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: But I think that because then puts people in a

1215
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: position where it's like, well, that's so good, we should

1216
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: just listen to Well, why don't we just stop having

1217
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: it that we don't have to be like it's so

1218
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: good in defending it. I think there's you have some

1219
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: water when you're trying to get people to be like, hey,

1220
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: this guy has been accused of a bunch of heinous crimes.

1221
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: Let's all boycott is music. I think that's fine, But

1222
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: I think like the government can't go and be like

1223
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 1: you don't get to make music. Yeah, you're right, because

1224
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: then when someone isn't guilty, they can it can be

1225
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: used against them to silence them. But pesky civil rights man,

1226
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: I don't know justice. Whoa Theresa? You want to plug

1227
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: your plug doubles? Yeah, sure, I've got a podcast it's

1228
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 1: all about secrets. I've gotta get you on Sometimes. I

1229
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: love secrets, any secrets a very open book, but it

1230
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a scandaliust secretch is something you've

1231
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: not talked about, you know, on stage or whatever, already

1232
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 1: did podcasts about. It's called you can tell Me Anything,

1233
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,919
Speaker 1: comedians confess something they haven't told anyone. It's really fun.

1234
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: You can find it on Instagram at Tell Me Anything Pod,

1235
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: and I'm on Twitter at Larissa t. Yeah, I'll have

1236
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: to be on I'll talk about the time I firebombed

1237
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: that oil Derek or something. I'm Robert Evans. This has

1238
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 1: been Behind the Bastards. You can find us on Instagram

1239
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: and Twitter at at Bastards pod. Uh by shirts and

1240
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: cups and cell phone cases and uh commercial drilling equipment

1241
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 1: all at our Tea public store behind the Bastards Tea

1242
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 1: Public check it out. You can get our branded stuff

1243
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: on your m X eight Earthcore Cracker, which is one

1244
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: of the finest, you know, commercial drilling rigs available. I

1245
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: shouldn't be lying about commercial drilling equipment. We're gonna have

1246
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: like thirty people pop up on Twitter and be like, Also,

1247
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: you can get stickers. You can find me on Twitter

1248
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 1: and I right, Okay. You'd find the sources for this

1249
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: episode on Behind the Bastards dot com. Uh. We'll be

1250
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 1: back on Thursday with the story of r Kelly's alleged

1251
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 1: sex cult. Uh and until then, podcast