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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. President Trump is taking

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Speaker 1: this economy in a different direction. He ran on that,

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Speaker 1: he promised it, and now he's delivering. We're in the

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Speaker 1: process of imposing reciprocal tariffs. This is going to hurt

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Speaker 1: our economy before we get to any possible retaliation. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being such a pro business and pronavision President.

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Speaker 1: We're very excited to see what you're doing to make

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Speaker 1: all of our companies in our entire country so successful.

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Speaker 2: The big promise was that he was going to bring

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Speaker 2: down prices and make America affordable again, and everything he's

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Speaker 2: done is the opposite of that.

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Speaker 1: We have the greatest economy in history. This economy, in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, is going to blow it away. Let's face it.

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Speaker 1: The globalist idea that we should all do the same thing,

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Speaker 1: have the same regulations, have the same targets, and the EU,

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Speaker 1: of course, is the epicenter of all of this. For

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Speaker 1: the life that's now for the birds, there's a change

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Speaker 1: of debate. There is now something called national interest and

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Speaker 1: that's the new politics that you're saying.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Flanders, head of Government and Economics at Bloomberg,

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Speaker 2: and this is trump Anomics, the podcast that looks at

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Speaker 2: the economic world of Donald Trump, how he's already shaped

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Speaker 2: the global economy and what on earth is going to

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Speaker 2: happen next. This week, wanted to play you a lively

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Speaker 2: conversation I had with Nigel Farage, leader of Reform UK,

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Speaker 2: on the sidelines of last week's World Economic Forum in Davos.

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Speaker 2: Probably no single individual better embodies the conflicted and contradictory

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Speaker 2: mood in politics today than Nigel Farage. He's deeply associated

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Speaker 2: with Britain's exit from the EU, something that a significant

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Speaker 2: majority of Brits now regret. He's also made a virtue

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Speaker 2: of close ties with Donald Trump and the MAGA movement

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Speaker 2: in the US, celebrating election night with mister Trump in

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Speaker 2: Mara Lago at a time when barely twenty percent of

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Speaker 2: the UK population have a favorable opinion of the US president,

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Speaker 2: a number that's falling fast thanks to the row over

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Speaker 2: Greenland and Trump's deeply insulting comments about the service of

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Speaker 2: non American soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. And yet, despite

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Speaker 2: all this, Reform UK, a party which won only five

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Speaker 2: seats in the UK Parliament in the election just eighteen

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Speaker 2: months ago, is now more than ten points ahead of

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Speaker 2: both of the main parties in the opinion polls, and

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Speaker 2: the political betting sites give Faraj a much higher chance

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Speaker 2: of being Britain's Prime minister after the next general election

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Speaker 2: than the current incumbent, secure Starmer. So it seemed like

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Speaker 2: a good time to dig into what a reform version

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Speaker 2: of Trump and Nomics would look like, whether the UK

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Speaker 2: could get away with being quite a cavalier as Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump has been about boring things like central bank independence

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Speaker 2: or inflation target In a week when populists all over

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Speaker 2: Europe have also been rushing to distance themselves from the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration on many issues, I was interested to find

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Speaker 2: out what reforms foreign policy would look like and whether

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Speaker 2: reforms voters would really want him to put quite so

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Speaker 2: much trust in the US. I think our chat was revealing.

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Speaker 2: It was also, I have to admit, rather fun a

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Speaker 2: bit surprised to see you used to really slag off

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Speaker 2: all the globalists at the wef oh.

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Speaker 1: I slagged off the European Parliament for twenty years, but

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Speaker 1: I still went there once a month, and I think

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Speaker 1: I genuinely upset them virtually every time I turned up,

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Speaker 1: isn't it interesting. I mean, you know, five years ago

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Speaker 1: here at Davos, the main topic of conversation was climate change,

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Speaker 1: DEI or that baloney. And here we are five years

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Speaker 1: on and the debates completely different. It's being dominated by

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Speaker 1: AI tech energy and the one thing I've enjoyed over

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Speaker 1: the last couple of days, there is genuine debate. There

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Speaker 1: are different opinions now, rather than the sort of consensus

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Speaker 1: view that I certainly felt was coming out from the globalists.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, no, no, I found it really interesting and worthwhile.

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Speaker 2: It is quite funny that there's so many honest conversations

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Speaker 2: this week, and it sort of suggests, you know, what

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Speaker 2: were the conversations like before.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think it's interesting. I mean, ten years ago,

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Speaker 1: we had the Brexit referendum result, we had Trump winning

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Speaker 1: the presidency, and I think everyone thought, well, these are

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Speaker 1: just aberrations, these are short term Rembertonia Blair saying these

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Speaker 1: are sort of short term fits of rage. Normal service

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Speaker 1: will be resumed. And now everyone realizes that actually these

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Speaker 1: were the first tremors of a very very major change

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Speaker 1: in political conversation and debate, and that I think now

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Speaker 1: is writ large.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people were interested in how

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Speaker 2: you're seeing foreign policy, the UK's role in this new

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Speaker 2: world that we've all been talking about this week. But

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Speaker 2: just to get into sort of cool Bloomberg territory for

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Speaker 2: a few minutes. One of the consensus views out there,

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Speaker 2: if you ask economists, many people in the city, what

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Speaker 2: would happen to UK borrowing rates if a reform government

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Speaker 2: took power? They go up at least that's the consensus.

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Speaker 2: So why do you think investors would be seem to

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Speaker 2: be quite nervous about reform?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, as a as a former commodities trader, if

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Speaker 1: there's a big consensual view, take the opposite trade position,

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Speaker 1: I've always believed in that quite strongly. Look, obviously we're

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Speaker 1: talking about supply side reform. One of the big frustrations

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Speaker 1: is that since Brexit, businesses, particularly with small and medium

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Speaker 1: sized businesses, are now more heavily regulated, more penalized by

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Speaker 1: whichever regulator is relevant to their area they were before Brexit.

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Speaker 1: It's a massive frustration. So do we want to reduce

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Speaker 1: the size of the administrative state? Yes, Do we want

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Speaker 1: to attempt genuine supply side reform? Absolutely? Do we want

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Speaker 1: rich taxpayers to flee the country and young entrepreneurs to

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Speaker 1: flee the country every year or come back to the country, invest,

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Speaker 1: employ people, spend money. So that's the agenda and people say, well,

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Speaker 1: if you do all of that, you're kind of going

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Speaker 1: to be following a little bit of the quasi qua

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Speaker 1: teng budget and the market's going to take fright. So

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Speaker 1: that's where the view comes from. And I think the

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Speaker 1: one big lesson from the Trust qua teng budget is

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Speaker 1: they did not propose to cut spending. They basically said

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Speaker 1: we won't increase spending in line with inflation. So for

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Speaker 1: our program to work, what we absolutely have to do

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Speaker 1: is to say that people we are going to reduce

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Speaker 1: welfare spending, we are going to reduce excessive government waste,

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Speaker 1: and I think if we do that the markets will

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Speaker 1: applaud it.

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Speaker 2: You step back from some of the more sort of

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Speaker 2: aggressive tax cut promises, said it's an aspiration, but one

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Speaker 2: of the big savings in your plan currently is to

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Speaker 2: save money that the Bank of England currently spends on

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Speaker 2: paying interest on bank reserves. So as you know, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of concern about that from the Bank of England.

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Speaker 2: They think they're going to lose control over interest rates,

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Speaker 2: which is pretty core part of their monetary policy, and

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Speaker 2: certainly bankers quite clearly see whether it's I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think you've said thirty billion, thirty five billion. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think it's more like twenty billion. But that's a twenty

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Speaker 2: billion tax on banks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, that's less relevant now than it was because

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Speaker 1: we're not going through the Q programming quite the same

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Speaker 1: way we were before, as you know. In fact, the

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Speaker 1: opposite has been happening in some regards.

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Speaker 2: But that's where some of the savings come from. It

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Speaker 2: is from the sales of the QT.

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Speaker 1: We were the only party to point out just how

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Speaker 1: much this was costing. And I think that's what we're

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Speaker 1: good at. What we're good at is introducing new debates,

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Speaker 1: and it was it was very interesting when I went

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Speaker 1: to meet Richard Tiz and I went to meet the

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Speaker 1: Governor of the Marks of England, which was a very

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Speaker 1: interesting clash of cultures, I would say, And I just said,

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting that you're making massive decisions here that

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Speaker 1: have a huge impact on public finances, and yet it's

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Speaker 1: being done with no debate in Parliament whatsoever. That's not true.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's true that there's no reform MPs on

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Speaker 2: the Select Committee, but they go all the time to

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Speaker 2: give testimony to the House of Parliament.

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Speaker 1: The Government controls and these subjects.

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Speaker 2: Takes these policies actually because these agreements or agreements with

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Speaker 2: the Treasury of what.

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Speaker 1: They've been doing, and these subjects don't get talked about properly.

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Speaker 1: There's no proper open debate and frankly, the committee system

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Speaker 1: in the UK doesn't get the coverage, doesn't get the publicity.

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Speaker 1: We have not had any debate in the floor of

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Speaker 1: the House of Commons on this subject at all.

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Speaker 2: But you say you're going to do it, it's a

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Speaker 2: part of your plan, it's not just part of your

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Speaker 2: plan to discuss it. Then we're going to do it

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Speaker 2: at least twenty big We're going to do it and

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Speaker 2: tax the banks.

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Speaker 1: And some of the banks won't like it. You're well right,

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Speaker 1: they will. All I don't like consumers. Well, I don't

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Speaker 1: like the banks very much because they debanked me, didn't

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Speaker 1: They didn't I wouldn't give me, wouldn't give me an account,

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Speaker 1: and trying to force me out of the country. Now, look,

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Speaker 1: this will be tough for banks to accept. I get that,

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Speaker 1: but how do you think they get I'm sorry but

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Speaker 1: the drain on public finances is just too great.

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Speaker 2: But how do they make their money if they don't

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Speaker 2: make it there? Don't you think it's pretty clear it's

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Speaker 2: going to go on too interest margin. It's going to

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Speaker 2: go on to the more mortgage costs and the interest

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Speaker 2: rates they charge.

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Speaker 1: Your VOTs, or they become more efficient, or they cut costs,

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Speaker 1: or they do whatever. This money. They should not have

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Speaker 1: had this money. Over look. Frankly, the whole QE program

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Speaker 1: has not achieved anything very much other than to make

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Speaker 1: the rich richer and the poor poorer. And everything we've

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Speaker 1: done on que since George Osball and co put it

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Speaker 1: into place has been bad for most people in the country.

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Speaker 2: That's been really helpful because it's very clear you are

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Speaker 2: happy to have a very hefty extra tax on banks

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Speaker 2: more anti bank.

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Speaker 1: It's not a tax. They're just not going to get

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Speaker 1: free money anymore.

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Speaker 2: It's taking twenty billion pounds from the banks. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: really master.

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Speaker 1: They'll adapt what business does You.

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Speaker 2: Disagree with the Bank of England governor on that. If

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Speaker 2: we have an election on schedule, there'll be a new

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Speaker 2: Bank of England governor by the time you would become

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister. They'd come in in early twenty eight. One

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Speaker 2: of the other things that people are worried about is

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Speaker 2: that you're actually questioning one of these key pillars of

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Speaker 2: UK economic policy, one of the few stable pillars in

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Speaker 2: the last fifteen years or so twenty years.

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Speaker 1: The independent Bank of England.

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Speaker 2: Will you will you let that new Bank of England

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Speaker 2: governor continue in their term their full term?

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Speaker 1: Well, given what a catastrophe UK economic policy has been

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Speaker 1: over the last fifteen years, I think we should challenge

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Speaker 1: every single tenant of it. But one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: mistakes I mean that we vote Brexit. Now, if you

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Speaker 1: vote Brexit, use it as an opportunity to do things differently.

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Speaker 1: And the trouble is from day one the Conservative government

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Speaker 1: viewed it as a damage limitation exercise as opposed to

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Speaker 1: an opportunity. And Andrew Bays are perfectly plight nice man,

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Speaker 1: but they should have picked somebody who was a Brexiteer

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Speaker 1: to be in charge of the Bank of England and

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Speaker 1: to think totally differently, especially around financial markets financial market regulation.

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Speaker 1: We've ignored this.

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Speaker 2: Like every other central independent central bank, they think about

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Speaker 2: their inflation targets. So you're suggesting that after Brexit. They

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Speaker 2: shouldn't have been focused on inflation.

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Speaker 1: To take the whole world of cryptocurrencies and crypto trading,

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Speaker 1: and we are just lagging so far behind many other

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Speaker 1: parts of the world, and yet the Bank of England

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Speaker 1: are one of them. I mean, there was even a

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Speaker 1: proposal from Bailey just recently to restrict the number of

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Speaker 1: stable coins any individual can hold. So you see, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about having people the government the Bank of England.

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Speaker 1: I'm not questioning the independence of it. What I am

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Speaker 1: saying is that we need a new, more innovative approach

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Speaker 1: to all of this.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but if you get rid of the one who's there,

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Speaker 2: and there has been a tradition that reflects the independence

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Speaker 2: of the central Bank that the terms don't necessarily coincide

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Speaker 2: with election terms, you're saying you would suspend that because

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Speaker 2: you want to have your own person in there.

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Speaker 1: If we don't do things differently, we're going to get

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Speaker 1: poorer and poorer.

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Speaker 2: I want to know exactly how you're going to do

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Speaker 2: things differently, not to say we're going to have a

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Speaker 2: big debate and we're going to question.

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Speaker 1: We're going to pick different people with a different attitude

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Speaker 1: towards everything. To do with including the inflation target or

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Speaker 1: the inflation target. Fine, we're not We're not meeting it

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Speaker 1: anyway with what we're doing. Of course, inflation needs to

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Speaker 1: be controlled. Of course it needs to be controlled. And

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Speaker 1: there are other debates too. I mean, you know the

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Speaker 1: role of the OBR. I was going to ask you

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Speaker 1: about that. I mean, when do they last get a

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Speaker 1: forecast right about anything? What useful purpose? That just means

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Speaker 1: they're economists. What useful Well, I know they're nearly always wrong, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but what useful purpose does there that? Look, we are

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Speaker 1: prepared to think openly and challenge everything, just as here

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Speaker 1: at Davos, there is now open debate, honest conversations. As

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Speaker 1: you said earlier, no longer a consensual view the way

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Speaker 1: Britain's been run. Let's say since two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 1: We could go back earlier. The way it's been run

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Speaker 1: isn't working, and we're having fresh thinking on all of it.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of people would think, great, who

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Speaker 2: can be against fresh thinking? Good start, it's a good

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Speaker 2: place to start in opposition. It's not a good place

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Speaker 2: to start at number ten Downing Street, that you're going

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Speaker 2: to put everything in the air.

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Speaker 1: It istually what it worked pretty well in the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, didn't it where we had a radical government

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Speaker 1: that changed everything about our tax structures, our laws, and yes,

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Speaker 1: there were a couple of difficult years, But did it

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Speaker 1: turn the economy around? Did it lead to a change

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Speaker 1: of attitude?

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Speaker 2: And that's really interesting, Margaret, Thatatchall did not throw everything

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Speaker 2: in the air. If you look at the nineteen seventy

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Speaker 2: nine manifesto, it didn't have any of the big ambitious

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Speaker 2: things that Patcha later did. And the first few years

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Speaker 2: she's stuck to the plans that she'd had. There was

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Speaker 2: actually a certainty that was offered to the markets.

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Speaker 1: And two, well, I would disagree with that. She she

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Speaker 1: didn't just.

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Speaker 2: Question everything and didn't just suddenly surprise everybody.

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Speaker 1: I disagree with that completely. The first budget that Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: Howe brought in brought top rate income tax down from

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Speaker 1: eighties three to sixty percent. I'd call that pretty radical.

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Speaker 2: But there was still some of the core elements of

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Speaker 2: her policy. Things like the really dramatic stuff all came afterwards,

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Speaker 2: after she'd built up support and after they've got inflation out,

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Speaker 2: which she did say she would stop.

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Speaker 1: She gave a very clear signal that the country was

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Speaker 1: heading in a different direction. And did it take a

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Speaker 1: long time to get all the trade union laws through

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Speaker 1: and all the rest of it, Yes, it did. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can't change things overnight, but you can signal that

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Speaker 1: you want to go in a different direction. And look,

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Speaker 1: I just think the most ignored section of the British economy,

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Speaker 1: the one where we're failing in the biggest way, are

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Speaker 1: the five point six million men and women out there

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Speaker 1: running their own businesses. And they now want them to

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Speaker 1: do quarterly returns as opposed to annual returns. It's just

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Speaker 1: one little example of how we punish small business again

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Speaker 1: and again and again. And I do believe, I genuinely

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Speaker 1: believe that if you look at what happened economically in

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Speaker 1: America and in Britain in the eighties, you'll see a

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Speaker 1: lot of that growth actually came from the bottom up

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Speaker 1: in the economy, not from the top down. So I

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Speaker 1: want to complete rethink over all that.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people would hear you on

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Speaker 2: those sort of what we would say, you know, microeconomic

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Speaker 2: things going wrong. You say, I'm going to change these

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Speaker 2: micro things. But if you're putting the whole system of

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Speaker 2: the way that macroeconomic policy has been run in the country,

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Speaker 2: particularly the independent fiscal Watchdog, independent Central Bank. If that

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Speaker 2: is in question when you walk into number ten, you

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Speaker 2: don't think there's going to be an enormous amount of

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Speaker 2: concern in international markets that will affect your ability.

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Speaker 1: To maybe people what maybe people will think. Finally we've

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Speaker 1: got a government that actually has within it people who've

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Speaker 1: been in business. Because we haven't got that now, and

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Speaker 1: we haven't had much of it for many, many years.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like you're very worried about having a

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Speaker 2: repeat of a sort of list trust type.

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Speaker 1: That's because we're going to cut spend it. For example,

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Speaker 1: you can now go you can now get benefits if

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Speaker 1: you suffer from mild anxiety. Well, I have mild anxiety

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Speaker 1: every morning, you know. I mean, we've just reached a

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Speaker 1: ridiculous level with all of this, and it can't go on.

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Speaker 1: It just can't go on. We're looking at a benefits

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Speaker 1: fill of three hundred billion by twenty thirty something like that,

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Speaker 1: so it can't go on. And look, you know, of

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Speaker 1: course I'm there to challenge all of these things. Bear

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Speaker 1: in mind, I've only been back in politics. Eighteen months.

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Speaker 1: You know, I escaped, I got out over the wall,

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Speaker 1: but I'm back again. I've had eighteen months to try

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Speaker 1: and build a political party, a structure from nothing, so effectively,

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Speaker 1: I'm the CEO of Reform and we build departments and

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Speaker 1: they give their weekly or daily reports into me, and

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Speaker 1: we're growing. The next big stage of my development will

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Speaker 1: be that this time next year, sitting here on the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg panel with you won't be me, because there will

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Speaker 1: be a team of people appointed to take all of

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Speaker 1: those jobs. And that's the next that is the next

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Speaker 1: big stage of the development. So perhaps the criticism that

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Speaker 1: could be leveled fairly against me, There were lots leveled

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Speaker 1: unfairly against me, But the fairly against me is that

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Speaker 1: I've never been in frontline government, true, and it's a

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Speaker 1: one man band. So at the minute I'm asked to

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Speaker 1: talk about economic policy, foreign policy, you know, law and order, borders, everything,

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Speaker 1: and so it's now about broadening the team, putting different

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Speaker 1: people in position, and then formulating firmer policies than we have.

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Speaker 1: But we have laid out already some proposed bills, economic bills,

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Speaker 1: the concept of the Britannia Card to try and bring

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Speaker 1: high taxpayers back to Britain, the digital markets, the sorry

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Speaker 1: digital Assets and crypto bill, so that we are showing

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Speaker 1: a way forward.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned Brexit, mentioned that we should have made more

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Speaker 2: of an opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Out of bricks. We should have done it immediately.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about we are seeing a new kind of

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Speaker 2: global order. I haven't heard you say, what is Britain's

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Speaker 2: role in this new global order? How do you think

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Speaker 2: about your foreign policy number?

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Speaker 1: While we have amazing advantages, amazing advantages being outside of

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Speaker 1: the European Union leaves us free in terms of trade policy. Ironically,

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Speaker 1: you know, the super remainers Starmer boasts at the dispatch

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Speaker 1: box now about the fact we've got an independent trade

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Speaker 1: policy and we're able to do things. And I think

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Speaker 1: in terms of being a bridge between Europe and America

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Speaker 1: or in a powerful position, I just think we've underutilized

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Speaker 1: the amazing advantages we have across the rest of the world.

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Speaker 1: You know, we turned our backs on India, we turned

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Speaker 1: our backs on the Commonwealth countries in the seventies. We

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Speaker 1: decided that Europe was our future. That became a sort

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Speaker 1: of foreign office and political over decades, and we've turned

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Speaker 1: our backs on large parts of the world where there

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Speaker 1: is still a remarkable relationship between those former colonies and ourselves.

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Speaker 1: So we need to think more globally in every way.

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Speaker 2: China's the obvious country that there's been a big debate

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Speaker 2: about Prime Minister's going to visit. I think it's the

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Speaker 2: first prime minister or visit for the UK in eight years.

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Speaker 2: Would you go to China? How would you think about

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Speaker 2: relationship with China?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't believe our relationship with China is very good.

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Speaker 1: I think this government is utterly craven in the way

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Speaker 1: that it gives into China at every opportunity. It's a

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Speaker 1: difficult problem because they've become so big, and to some

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Speaker 1: extent we've become quite dependent upon them and not the

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Speaker 1: other way around if you think it through. So it's

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Speaker 1: a massive, massive problem, but it's not a relationship we

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Speaker 1: should trust and we should be extremely cautious of them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you're a prime minister, what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: It means you don't allow them to build an embassy

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Speaker 1: on the site of the storic royal mint, which could

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Speaker 1: potentially threaten communications. I'm actually can't believe that Isaac Newton

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Speaker 1: will be turning in his grave.

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Speaker 2: I like the fact that you know, Isaacton used to

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Speaker 2: be the keeper of the role mint.

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Speaker 1: He'd be surprised. Why now, if.

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Speaker 2: You have that kind of assitude to China, and you

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Speaker 2: certainly have your great relationship with President Trump, it does

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Speaker 2: sound like you'd be sort of saying, if as you

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Speaker 2: go into number ten, we are going to be absolutely

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Speaker 2: inextricably tied with us.

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Speaker 1: Now, b I'm not saying that, but I do think about, Look,

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Speaker 1: what's our growth rate going to be q for What's

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Speaker 1: it going to be a zero point two percent? If

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Speaker 1: it's zero point three percent, Rachel Reeves will be cheering,

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Speaker 1: she might even smile. You never know. And what's America's

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Speaker 1: growth rate going to be? Five percent? Five point two percent,

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Speaker 1: five point four percent. There's a lot we can learn

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Speaker 1: from america attitudes toward business and particularly embracing new technology.

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Speaker 1: We literally have front benches in Parliament, both sides, full

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Speaker 1: of people who have no comprehension, no comprehension of what

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Speaker 1: this world is. And that's why I've said one thing

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Speaker 1: that I will do is I want to bring people

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Speaker 1: into government from outside the political sphere who are genuine

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Speaker 1: experts in their area, who will take on a job

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Speaker 1: at personal cost to them for four or five years

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Speaker 1: to put something back. So for so much we can

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Speaker 1: learn about American business, about tech, but of course we

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Speaker 1: can't do any of it if we go on with

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Speaker 1: our maronic energy policy, utterly moronic. Actually it was the Tories,

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Speaker 1: of course, that wrote this net zero legislation into law,

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Speaker 1: and we've turned our backs on gas production, we've turned

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Speaker 1: our backs on oil production. This was a consensus of

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Speaker 1: both parties, both with the same attitude, and here we

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Speaker 1: are with industrial energy prices four times that of America.

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Speaker 1: It's insane.

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Speaker 2: Going back to the relationship with the US, I mean

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Speaker 2: you said you talked about the dangers of being on China.

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Speaker 2: We are utterly dependent on the US for many many things,

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Speaker 2: including obviously very a deep level at our defense. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and you're talking about closer economic ties. A lot of

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Speaker 2: people this week have really questioned whether this president is

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Speaker 2: a reliable partner.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I did not talk about closer economic ties. I

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Speaker 1: talked about learning from what the Americans have done, because

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Speaker 1: they're getting it right and we're getting it wrong in

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Speaker 1: terms of economics.

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Speaker 2: So who are we going to have closer ties with

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Speaker 2: under a reform government. Not China that would be worse,

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Speaker 2: Not the US.

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Speaker 1: We've got to think more in terms of the English

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Speaker 1: speaking world, and yes that does include America, of course

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Speaker 1: it does. But to have a close relationship doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: being beholden. You know, friends will disagree from time to time.

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Speaker 1: I will disagree with things Trump says, of course, from

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Speaker 1: time to time.

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Speaker 2: With this president, it seems that doing what you've just said,

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00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 2: having a good relationship without being beholden.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think we even learned from Mark Carley this week,

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00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 2: or at least his argument was means actually working with

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00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 2: a lot of other countries, and European countries have deduced

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00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 2: from this week and from the change in the position

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00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 2: on Greenland that ganging together was the only way to

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00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: would be not beholden to Donald Trump.

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00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: You don't want to do that. Good old Mark Carney

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00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 1: isn't need marvelous, But.

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Speaker 2: You don't think you should be working with other European countries.

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00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: These everything wrong. He's being promoted. It's remarkable. Look. Of course,

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00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 1: we understand collective strength through NATO and organizations like that.

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00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: All right, I get that, but let's face it, the

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Speaker 1: globalist idea that we should all do the same thing,

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Speaker 1: have the same regulations, have the same targets, and the EU,

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00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 1: of course is the epicenter of all of this. For

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00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: the globalists. That's now for the birds, there's a change

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00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 1: of debate. There is now something called national interest and

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00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: that's the new politics that you're seeing. That's the new

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00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 1: approach that you're saying.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people in this audience would

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00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: say the conclusion from this week was not that was

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Speaker 2: that countries cannot go alone, especially in their relationship with

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Speaker 2: President Trump. They need to group together. And a lot

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Speaker 2: of people in the UK will be thinking and right

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00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 2: if we know from the polls that they want.

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Speaker 1: To be closer to Europe.

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Speaker 2: But you're saying the opposite, you don't want to work

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Speaker 2: with other countries, and especially not with yours.

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Speaker 1: I'm very happy to work with other countries. I love Europe,

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Speaker 1: I love Europeans. I just don't like Brussels and the

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00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: terrible autocratic structures that it's built. I don't believe it's

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Speaker 1: brought any benefits whatsoever. It may have been good for

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Speaker 1: one or two big companies, but beyond that it's been

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Speaker 1: a failure, not a success.

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Speaker 2: It's been a little bit hard from this conversation to

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Speaker 2: see where the direction would be any foreign policy.

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Speaker 1: This is the point, actually do an independent United Kingdom

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00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: chooses its own future, chooses its own relationships, makes its

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Speaker 1: own decisions. We're doing it in trade policy. Trade policy

480
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: is one example of what you can do if you're

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00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: not part of a structure that tells you what you

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Speaker 1: can and can't do. And that's what the EU was,

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Speaker 1: and that's what the Brexit world's about. Making our own choices,

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Speaker 1: making our own decisions. Yes, of course, in terms of defense,

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00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: NATO is crucial, America is crucial. But you ask yourself

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00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: a question, you know, has Donald Trump made NATO weaker

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00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: or stronger over the last ten years? And I would

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00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: argue he's made NATO a lot lot stronger by waking

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Speaker 1: Europeans up to the fat They couldn't go on having

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Speaker 1: a free lunch. We're going to run out of time.

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Speaker 2: But given that this week has been so dominated by tech,

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00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 2: I couldn't help noticing you. This week you had to

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00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: apologize for breaching the Code of Contact, for failing to

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00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: declare a load of income to the Parliamentary Committee. But

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00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: your explanation was, I'm an odd ball and I don't

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00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 2: do computers. Do you think that's going to have to

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00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: change some Prime Minister.

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Speaker 1: I'm in a fortunate position. I get staffed to do

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Speaker 1: it all for me.

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00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 2: But that is you're just going to stee clearing of

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00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 2: computers if you go, if you go to number ten.

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Speaker 1: I spent my time meeting people. I could spend my

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Speaker 1: time on a screen all day, I choose not to.

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Speaker 2: Well, that is an interesting view around here with everyone

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00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 2: talking about what I do. Will you come back?

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Speaker 1: Don't forget I'm an old commodities trailer and I spend

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00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: my life traveling, meeting people and having the honor a

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00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: big on Bloomberg platforms with people like you.

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Speaker 2: That is such a sort of cheesy way. Thank you

510
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 2: so much, Nigel Coruh, Thanks for listening to Trumpomics from Bloomberg.

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00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: It was hosted by me Stephanie Flanders. I was joined

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00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 2: by Reform UK leader Nigel Farage. Trumponomics was produced by Summer,

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00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 2: Sadi and Moses and with help from Amy Keene and

514
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: special thanks to all of the team at Bloomberg's Davos House.

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00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: Sound design was by Blake Maples and Kelly Gary and

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00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: to help others find us, Please review and rate us highly.

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00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 2: Wherever you listen to podcasts,