Speaker 1: Listen, you've slandered this man. Yeah. What I sort of
Speaker 1: want to know is how do we how do we
Speaker 1: get to this point? I do not think that anyone,
Speaker 1: Mr Chairman, I am done. Thank you, very man. You
Speaker 1: slandered this man from top to bottom. I want to
Speaker 1: say this before we welcome our esteemed guest, Maizie Herono
Speaker 1: from Hawaii. Sounds like a dope. Now, it's fairly unlikely
Speaker 1: she's actually a dope. Is it possible she just has
Speaker 1: resting dope voice? I mean, like this guy here turns
Speaker 1: up as a astrophysicist. I mean it's possible. So a
Speaker 1: majority of Americans don't want impeachment proceedings to happen in Congress.
Speaker 1: I think people are just getting tired of all this.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that hurts Trump or the Democrats
Speaker 1: or everyone or no one. I don't know. So we
Speaker 1: should talk to somebody smart. Indeed. Lan he j Chen
Speaker 1: is the host of the podcast Crossing Lines with lani
Speaker 1: enln He is also a David and Diane Stuffy Research
Speaker 1: Fellow to Hoover Institution Director Domestic Policy Studies at Stanford University.
Speaker 1: Lon he how are you, sir? Good morning, gentlemen doing well,
Speaker 1: how are you awesome? So that there is a big
Speaker 1: ABC Washington Post poll came out. I guess over the
Speaker 1: weekend um majority people don't want impeachment proceedings to start.
Speaker 1: The vast majority of people their opinion wasn't changed one
Speaker 1: way or another over the Muller report. I just I
Speaker 1: just think I just feel like people are worn out
Speaker 1: by all of this, and does that help or hurt?
Speaker 1: Who's that helper hurt? Yeah? I do think that there's
Speaker 1: a certain amount of fatigue that's set in. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think most Americans look at this and they just say,
Speaker 1: you know what, stop pickering and get something done, you know.
Speaker 1: I I think that's that's the predominant frame through which
Speaker 1: people see all this. In terms of who it helps
Speaker 1: or hurts. I think it depends on how the cards
Speaker 1: are played. If the Democrats do proceed to impeachment proceedings,
Speaker 1: I can't do you think that's a possibility. I haven't
Speaker 1: even considered that actually might happen. You think that could happen? Well, there,
Speaker 1: you gotta remember there's this conflict in the Democratic Party.
Speaker 1: For all the talk about what's going on in the
Speaker 1: Republican Party, with Trump and people who don't like Trump.
Speaker 1: The bigger divide and the bigger story over the next
Speaker 1: year is going to be the division within the Democratic Party.
Speaker 1: And you see this played out between Nancy Pelosi and
Speaker 1: Alexandria Kazio Cortez. I mean, no one is thrown more
Speaker 1: shade at Alexandria Kazio Cortez and Nancy Pelo. Now, now
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi has got a problem, which is that she's
Speaker 1: the only same one in the room there. She's the
Speaker 1: one saying, She's the one saying, look, we can't, we
Speaker 1: can't do this impeachment thing. It's not going to make
Speaker 1: a whole lot of sense given what we have on
Speaker 1: the record. Now, the problem is there's so many people
Speaker 1: agitating for this on the progressive left, and it's it's
Speaker 1: not even just raw numbers, guys, it's how loud they are.
Speaker 1: And oftentimes you, I mean you, you fellows know this.
Speaker 1: Whoever yells the loudest in an argument wins. And So
Speaker 1: while I don't think it makes any sense on God's
Speaker 1: green Earth or Democrats to proceed to impeachment proceedings, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me if they do it either, Just in
Speaker 1: where the energy is in their party. Wow. Interesting, that'd
Speaker 1: be something that'd be what a what a crazy maneuver,
Speaker 1: that would be against the wishes of your House the
Speaker 1: House Speaker. And I'm guessing Chuck Schumer's not into it.
Speaker 1: I mean, when when Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi came
Speaker 1: out of that infrastructure meeting the other day with Trump
Speaker 1: and all talked about how we had a great meeting,
Speaker 1: and this is that that's not a couple of leaders
Speaker 1: who are excited about impeachment, or they wouldn't be talking
Speaker 1: that way. Well, that's right. And the interesting part of
Speaker 1: this is you've got a dynamic here, right, because some
Speaker 1: of these Democrats, particularly marginal Democrats who are elected in
Speaker 1: twenty eight team, let's say from southern California, who represent
Speaker 1: districts that are pretty evenly divided, they'd love to have
Speaker 1: a two trillion dollar infrastructure package to take home at
Speaker 1: some of that to their districts and say, look at
Speaker 1: what I've got, Look what I was able to win.
Speaker 1: The problem is going to be on the other side
Speaker 1: of this if, in fact, you have a situation now
Speaker 1: where you've got people who are running for president, let's say,
Speaker 1: for example, they would benefit from nothing more than having
Speaker 1: a little more conflict, and it doesn't fit the narrative.
Speaker 1: Well if Trump is able to do a deal with
Speaker 1: the Democrats. So in some ways, all the incentives are
Speaker 1: misaligned here and that's why Americans are so sticky tired
Speaker 1: of all this. Yeah. Yeah, it is the age of
Speaker 1: hyperbole everywhere, from social media to the TV, and it's
Speaker 1: just the radio and politics is a hypercharged hyperbole, I think.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think that's probably why Joe Biden is
Speaker 1: so clearly trying to be Mr com Mr We're fine,
Speaker 1: Mr chuckling warmly. In fact, you know, he said the
Speaker 1: other day that the China is not a competitor us.
Speaker 1: That's fine. They're nice folks, they're good folks. I mean,
Speaker 1: so his uh, his strategies definitely emerged. Would you agree
Speaker 1: that's his thing. Yeah, he's he's sort of I'm going
Speaker 1: to be the voice of reason, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: be the comfortable blanket you you know, you throw on
Speaker 1: when it's corn it's cold on a winter night. The
Speaker 1: problem is, and it gets back again to this beforetime
Speaker 1: about earlier, which is the split within the Democratic Party.
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure the Democratic primary electorate, which is
Speaker 1: the electorate he needs to speak to right now, is
Speaker 1: particularly interested in a restoration of things past. I think
Speaker 1: they're interested in a forward looking vision and dramatic, bulk change,
Speaker 1: and that's not Joe Biden. I mean, you listen to
Speaker 1: Joe Biden his policy prescriptions straight out of there's not
Speaker 1: a whole lot he's talking about that's going to be
Speaker 1: anything new. And so that's the challenge that I think
Speaker 1: that that I think he's gonna face, which is what
Speaker 1: he's selling fundamentally, is probably not something that a lot
Speaker 1: of Democratic primary voters want. Now, they may end up deciding, Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll swallow it and we'll take it because we think
Speaker 1: he's the guy best equipped to be Trump. But I'll
Speaker 1: tell you he seems a little bit out of step
Speaker 1: with the Democratic Party elector now, not out of step
Speaker 1: with maybe what the general independent public wants, but in
Speaker 1: terms of Democratic primary voters, it doesn't sound like a
Speaker 1: great message to me. I I hate to derail the conversation,
Speaker 1: but I find that to be a really interesting question.
Speaker 1: A statement in the form of question what would be
Speaker 1: the best way for the parties to select president chill candidates?
Speaker 1: Because what you've described, and it's undeniably true, sounds like
Speaker 1: a bad way to do it. We're going to have
Speaker 1: a fired up, small minority of people pick who appeals
Speaker 1: to them, then we'll trot them out to the general population,
Speaker 1: who we already know is looking for something different. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, the way that they used to do it
Speaker 1: was the old smoke filled rooms where party elders and
Speaker 1: leaders would get together and figure out who they wanted.
Speaker 1: And that was probably better, wasn't it. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like it might be. That's that's interesting.
Speaker 1: Everybody's come full circle on that. When I was younger,
Speaker 1: I thought that just sounds terrible. A couple of powerful
Speaker 1: people making all the decisions. But Nancy and Chuck would
Speaker 1: do a better choice than the than the than the
Speaker 1: energized AOC wing is going to do. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's right. And you know the funny thing about this
Speaker 1: is we're always fighting the last fight. Okay, So I
Speaker 1: think about the Democrats. The perfect example of this. What
Speaker 1: they do in is they decide we're going to get
Speaker 1: rid of something called super elegance. Right, just to let
Speaker 1: you know, we've got like forty five seconds. But go ahead, Okay,
Speaker 1: So I'll try to make this quick. They've got these
Speaker 1: super delegates, right, which are basically party elders who helped
Speaker 1: select the nominee they decide. You know, we're going to
Speaker 1: get rid of those, so fast forward. We're in now.
Speaker 1: The party elders in the Democratic Party have far less
Speaker 1: influenced unless there's a contested convention, then they gain influence again.
Speaker 1: But this is what I'm talking about. They're always fighting
Speaker 1: the last fight, and in some ways going back to
Speaker 1: the way things were sometimes might not be a bad
Speaker 1: idea because you might actually end up with a better outcome. Listen,
Speaker 1: let's follow up on that next time we chat. To
Speaker 1: apologize for the abrupt and long he but it's always
Speaker 1: a pleasure. Lon he Chan as the host of the
Speaker 1: podcast Crossing Lines with lon Chan. That's interesting. That sounds
Speaker 1: like they've got a recipe for a less um effective
Speaker 1: candidate than they've ever had. More democracy is not always
Speaker 1: better