WEBVTT - Freddie Wong: From YouTube to His Own Production Company 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:22.516 Pushkin. All right, y'all, So it's twenty twenty three and 0:00:22.556 --> 0:00:26.276 we should probably finally act like it is on this show. Obviously, 0:00:26.356 --> 0:00:28.716 one of the most ubiquitous ways to make it from 0:00:28.756 --> 0:00:32.796 the bottom these days is to become an influencer. Freddy Wong, 0:00:32.916 --> 0:00:35.676 my guest on today's show, is an early version of that. 0:00:35.916 --> 0:00:40.636 A YouTuber. He started his channel, Freddy w and six, 0:00:40.836 --> 0:00:44.516 back when YouTube was still a fledgling video sharing website. 0:00:44.796 --> 0:00:50.116 That YouTube channel eventually became a real production company, Rocket Jump. Today, 0:00:50.196 --> 0:00:53.076 rocket Jump has over one point six billion views on 0:00:53.116 --> 0:00:57.556 YouTube and nine million subscribers. His YouTube journey, sparked by 0:00:57.596 --> 0:01:00.236 an early love of film, led to a production deal 0:01:00.276 --> 0:01:03.156 with Lionsgate to create a Hulu show a handful of 0:01:03.236 --> 0:01:07.476 years ago. Since then, he stopped regularly uploading videos online, 0:01:07.716 --> 0:01:10.836 has dabbled in podcast, and is generally just plotting what 0:01:10.916 --> 0:01:14.676 his next move's gonna be. On today's episode, we check 0:01:14.756 --> 0:01:17.516 in with one of the original stars of YouTube and 0:01:17.596 --> 0:01:21.516 explore the ups and downs of internet fame and creation. 0:01:22.476 --> 0:01:25.356 This is started from the bottom, harder and success stories 0:01:25.356 --> 0:01:31.876 from people like us pretty long. Man, Thanks for doing this, appreciate. 0:01:31.476 --> 0:01:32.676 You, Thanks for having me on. 0:01:32.796 --> 0:01:34.516 Man So I want to I want to get into 0:01:34.556 --> 0:01:38.396 all things YouTube and filmmaking. I want to talk filmmaking. 0:01:38.836 --> 0:01:42.836 But I'm just curious where there's not like a ton 0:01:43.116 --> 0:01:46.636 of info about your early life out and about in public. 0:01:47.156 --> 0:01:51.556 What where did your love of storytelling developed? 0:01:51.756 --> 0:01:55.876 Probably when I spent that stint in prison. No no, no, no, 0:01:56.276 --> 0:01:58.916 I honestly, you know what it was was growing up 0:01:58.956 --> 0:02:01.476 there were two Blockbuster videos that was like the close 0:02:01.516 --> 0:02:05.596 one and then the bigger, nicer one. My dad loves movies, 0:02:05.796 --> 0:02:08.236 loves American movies, and he would show us like just 0:02:08.516 --> 0:02:10.956 so much. So like pretty much every weekend we'd be 0:02:11.156 --> 0:02:14.236 at the Blockbuster just renting movies. So like Friday we'd 0:02:14.236 --> 0:02:17.516 see something, Saturday night, we see something Sunday afternoon. I 0:02:17.556 --> 0:02:20.036 would have, you know, a third movie sometimes, Like it 0:02:20.076 --> 0:02:23.316 was just a lot of time in video stores, honestly. 0:02:23.596 --> 0:02:26.316 And also my dad, who like just has such a 0:02:26.916 --> 0:02:30.476 like I remember, I remember when I was like I 0:02:30.556 --> 0:02:33.036 must have been like eleven or twelve. He was like, Yo, 0:02:33.556 --> 0:02:36.116 you have to see this guy, Dustin Hoffman. He's one 0:02:36.156 --> 0:02:40.036 of the greatest American actors. And so he rented the Graduate. 0:02:40.756 --> 0:02:43.036 I'm like, I kind of think I okay, I don't 0:02:43.076 --> 0:02:45.676 quite get what's going on with him in this, like mom, 0:02:45.836 --> 0:02:48.596 but like it seems kind of you know, definitely didn't 0:02:48.636 --> 0:02:51.236 quite get it. Like I still remember watching the ending 0:02:51.276 --> 0:02:53.876 and feeling a certain way be like what the interesting ending? 0:02:54.196 --> 0:02:55.836 And then like the next week he was like, you 0:02:55.876 --> 0:02:58.756 think that was crazy, here's his next movie? And then 0:02:58.796 --> 0:03:02.276 he rented Midnight Cowboy Wow, which like which is like 0:03:02.276 --> 0:03:04.716 you'd rather get very famous, like almost X ray, right, 0:03:04.796 --> 0:03:06.636 or I think at the time even extra I remember 0:03:06.676 --> 0:03:08.356 being like as a kid being like, I'm too young 0:03:08.356 --> 0:03:10.876 for this, but that was the that was the approach. 0:03:10.956 --> 0:03:13.356 So your dad was, would you say outside of movies? 0:03:13.356 --> 0:03:15.676 Your dad was conservative in his approach to raise. 0:03:16.756 --> 0:03:17.556 Both of my parents. 0:03:17.716 --> 0:03:19.356 Like, you know, I get this a lot because I 0:03:19.396 --> 0:03:21.796 think a lot of people have the shared experience in 0:03:21.876 --> 0:03:25.676 terms of the Asian American like typical Asian American experience. Right. 0:03:26.156 --> 0:03:28.516 The reason why there's a lot of similarity on it 0:03:28.556 --> 0:03:32.876 is because at least speaking to East Asian specifically Chinese 0:03:32.876 --> 0:03:34.436 immigrants China. 0:03:34.516 --> 0:03:35.996 So I'm full Chinese, so you kind. 0:03:35.916 --> 0:03:39.236 Of have to essentially historically you kind of have like 0:03:39.276 --> 0:03:42.596 these waves of immigration and migration, right, if you're in 0:03:42.636 --> 0:03:45.436 California and you're like Japanese or Chinese, Like there's a 0:03:45.516 --> 0:03:46.796 chance that your family goes. 0:03:46.676 --> 0:03:48.716 Back, like back to like railroad times, right. 0:03:48.876 --> 0:03:51.796 But the Pacific Northwest a lot of the Asian population 0:03:51.916 --> 0:03:54.996 there in my case, right escaping from the Cultural Revolution 0:03:55.236 --> 0:03:57.316 in China. You have a lot of Southeast Asians post 0:03:57.356 --> 0:03:59.956 Vietnam War, right, And so like there's a reason why 0:03:59.956 --> 0:04:02.196 when you think about like the typical East Asian experience, 0:04:02.236 --> 0:04:03.756 a lot of them, you know, like it's because it's 0:04:03.756 --> 0:04:07.276 like it's fresh immigrant families hitting this sort of specific generation. 0:04:07.476 --> 0:04:08.996 So there's a lot of commonality, is there, Like a 0:04:08.996 --> 0:04:12.476 lot the sort of touchstones were the same. Take school seriously, right, Like, 0:04:12.756 --> 0:04:15.356 But I think I do acknowledge that it was different 0:04:15.476 --> 0:04:18.876 for me because I think my parents just had a 0:04:18.916 --> 0:04:21.396 different approach to it. You know, at least for myself 0:04:21.396 --> 0:04:23.316 and my brother, we had a lot more freedom because 0:04:23.356 --> 0:04:25.636 you know, like sophomore year in high school, like I 0:04:25.676 --> 0:04:27.356 want to make a movie with a friend of mine, 0:04:27.396 --> 0:04:28.916 and they're like, as long as your grades are fine, 0:04:28.956 --> 0:04:30.396 do whatever you want, right, Like that was the sort 0:04:30.436 --> 0:04:32.356 of feeling on that. I think part of it also 0:04:32.396 --> 0:04:36.636 is because my mom, she was a professional dancer in China, 0:04:37.076 --> 0:04:40.956 and so has this kind of artistic bend and has 0:04:40.956 --> 0:04:44.076 the sort of appreciation for the stuff that isn't going 0:04:44.156 --> 0:04:47.236 to make you six figures all the time, you know. 0:04:47.356 --> 0:04:50.796 Like so I think that like that combination kind of output, 0:04:50.956 --> 0:04:51.676 my brother. 0:04:51.516 --> 0:04:56.396 And so you dab puts you onto movie making or 0:04:56.436 --> 0:04:59.116 to your love of film. And then you are lucky 0:04:59.196 --> 0:05:00.556 enough to live near a Blockbuster. 0:05:01.116 --> 0:05:03.116 I mean, it's when I think about this, I think 0:05:03.156 --> 0:05:05.316 about luck a lot, and I think that there's a 0:05:05.316 --> 0:05:06.916 lot of things that fall in place here. Right, So 0:05:07.396 --> 0:05:10.276 consider that I'm lucky enough to have be alive in 0:05:10.316 --> 0:05:12.596 an era when you have Blockbuster Video, and you have 0:05:12.716 --> 0:05:15.316 video rental, and you have DVDs and VHS tapes, and 0:05:15.316 --> 0:05:17.836 you have the access to a library, right huge and 0:05:17.916 --> 0:05:21.356 especially in the pre broadband internet days, that's a big deal. 0:05:21.436 --> 0:05:23.956 Right On top of that, we have the iMac that 0:05:23.996 --> 0:05:28.316 came out the first real kind of accessible consumer computer 0:05:28.396 --> 0:05:31.396 that let you take high eight or digital eight or 0:05:31.436 --> 0:05:34.796 mini DV footage and like edit it. Because I remember 0:05:34.876 --> 0:05:37.356 like taking vacation videos and kind of messing with them, 0:05:37.396 --> 0:05:39.636 and like you know, on the computer at home, being 0:05:39.676 --> 0:05:40.916 able to do that already, like. 0:05:40.876 --> 0:05:44.076 That's like camera like Jamie yeah, like. 0:05:43.956 --> 0:05:45.956 Like yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah, like a little sony 0:05:46.036 --> 0:05:48.556 thing got Like it was that era of camera where 0:05:48.596 --> 0:05:53.276 they were like, yo, we got night vision mode. Yeah yeah, yeah, 0:05:53.316 --> 0:05:56.716 you know night vision mode. Like they stop that. Yeah, 0:05:56.796 --> 0:05:58.916 Like no, but no cameras come with night vision. But 0:05:58.956 --> 0:06:00.676 that was a moment where it was like, Yo, this 0:06:00.756 --> 0:06:05.396 camera soons three, it was so cool and how does 0:06:05.396 --> 0:06:08.316 this work? Like I remember growing up and like doing 0:06:08.316 --> 0:06:10.316 like making a little spe effects videos with my brother, 0:06:10.356 --> 0:06:12.876 Like we would take these pool cues and like do 0:06:13.036 --> 0:06:15.356 those choreographed sword fights, and then I would go back 0:06:15.396 --> 0:06:18.276 into the computer and like put lightsaber effects on it. 0:06:18.276 --> 0:06:21.956 Because you know, that's the pinnacle of filmmaking at the time, 0:06:22.076 --> 0:06:23.636 was doing cool Star Wars lightsaber. 0:06:23.716 --> 0:06:27.596 So there's a certain amount of luck involved and we're 0:06:27.636 --> 0:06:29.796 doing what you do, and I mean you happened. You're 0:06:29.796 --> 0:06:35.716 growing up in the heyday of in a early nineties 0:06:35.756 --> 0:06:38.916 would be another high water mark for movie making, you know, 0:06:38.996 --> 0:06:41.196 and you're being able to rent movies and to fill 0:06:41.236 --> 0:06:43.116 to rent movies and also like again right, like you 0:06:43.236 --> 0:06:46.876 remember that that early nineties coincides with this indie movie revolution, right, 0:06:46.956 --> 0:06:49.716 You're talking about guys like Aronofsky coming out, you're talking 0:06:49.756 --> 0:06:52.996 about Quintartino, and then people being like, ooh, indie film, 0:06:53.036 --> 0:06:54.996 what's going on here? And on top of that, there 0:06:54.996 --> 0:06:56.996 was a demand for it because people were building so 0:06:57.076 --> 0:06:59.756 many screens. There are so many flights, they just need 0:06:59.796 --> 0:07:01.956 to fill fill them up with screens. So you had 0:07:01.956 --> 0:07:04.076 companies that were willing to take a shot on like 0:07:04.116 --> 0:07:06.556 the Sofia Coppolas of the world, or the people who 0:07:06.556 --> 0:07:08.156 were like, hey, they just had a Sun Dance film 0:07:08.156 --> 0:07:11.156 and that's it. The dominant mythology growing up for a 0:07:11.156 --> 0:07:13.156 filmmaker was like, oh, you got to make an indie 0:07:13.156 --> 0:07:14.796 and go to a festival and do all that stuff, 0:07:14.836 --> 0:07:16.516 which I think has you know, changed quite a bit 0:07:16.516 --> 0:07:19.116 in the year. So you've been growing up formative years 0:07:19.156 --> 0:07:22.036 being spent in that indie filmmaking boom loving cinema. Did 0:07:22.076 --> 0:07:23.956 that make you feel like you could be a filmmaker? 0:07:23.956 --> 0:07:26.676 One hundred percent yes, one hundred percent. Yes. It's like, oh, 0:07:26.676 --> 0:07:28.396 you can tell these stories and you can do it cheap. 0:07:28.436 --> 0:07:29.756 As long as you do it cheap, and you know, 0:07:29.756 --> 0:07:31.196 I mean like it was a total it's just a 0:07:31.236 --> 0:07:33.916 totally different context. So now so then that you know, 0:07:34.236 --> 0:07:37.556 in that hunt, in that search for trying to find 0:07:37.636 --> 0:07:41.836 ways to make movies anyway we could, we got onto online. 0:07:41.876 --> 0:07:45.156 Another four tu of this development, right, that you could 0:07:45.196 --> 0:07:46.996 put things online and people could see it and you 0:07:46.996 --> 0:07:49.356 could potentially generate an audience from it. That was just 0:07:49.396 --> 0:07:51.716 starting when I was in college. People were like, ooh. 0:07:51.796 --> 0:07:55.396 The idea of like a popular YouTuber meaning anything was 0:07:55.476 --> 0:07:57.956 completely foreign to everybody, even in film school. 0:07:57.956 --> 0:07:59.756 I remember after I graduated, I was. 0:07:59.796 --> 0:08:02.076 Like, oh, hey, I'm gonna do doing this YouTube challenge 0:08:02.076 --> 0:08:03.796 and think everyone's response for the film school. So I 0:08:03.796 --> 0:08:06.156 was always just like what why, Like what is what's 0:08:06.156 --> 0:08:08.276 the point? You know, like even that even just the 0:08:08.316 --> 0:08:11.036 idea of like making a video, putting it somewhere, getting 0:08:11.036 --> 0:08:13.356 someone to even find it. Yeah, sometimes you didn't want 0:08:13.396 --> 0:08:14.836 the video to go viral because you have to pay 0:08:14.876 --> 0:08:17.396 for it, because your bandwidth costs would spike up that 0:08:17.636 --> 0:08:19.796 week because all of a sudden people are sharing it 0:08:19.836 --> 0:08:22.036 on emails and now I gotta pay a thousand bucks 0:08:22.076 --> 0:08:23.996 at the end of the month because people were watching it. 0:08:24.316 --> 0:08:26.116 So you mentioned you went to film school. I mean 0:08:26.116 --> 0:08:29.676 you're born and raised in Seattle in Washington, Yes, correct, correct, 0:08:29.676 --> 0:08:32.516 come down to USC for film school. Yeah, you're twenty 0:08:32.556 --> 0:08:34.076 in two thousand and five, which I would say is 0:08:34.116 --> 0:08:38.116 probably the year that YouTube really plants itself in the 0:08:38.156 --> 0:08:42.356 mainstream consciousness. You know, yeah, but you have Hollywood dream 0:08:42.396 --> 0:08:44.356 I mean, you have dreams to break into Hollywood to 0:08:44.396 --> 0:08:46.596 some extent. You moved down. Now you're in film school 0:08:46.796 --> 0:08:50.156 at USC where George Lucas went, and you know, like 0:08:50.236 --> 0:08:52.796 everyone went right, and it's like you at some point 0:08:52.796 --> 0:08:55.796 decide to go to make stuff for YouTube rather than 0:08:55.836 --> 0:08:58.956 try to necessarily break into film the more traditional route. 0:08:59.116 --> 0:09:00.876 So for a little bit we were doing that. We 0:09:00.876 --> 0:09:03.076 were doing direct to DVD movies. I was working on 0:09:03.116 --> 0:09:05.636 direct to DVD movies, and like in film school, I 0:09:05.636 --> 0:09:07.836 met this guy named Brandon Loatch who was my partner 0:09:07.876 --> 0:09:11.556 for a base all the YouTube era, and we were 0:09:11.836 --> 0:09:14.356 watching YouTube and we were seeing these guys like build 0:09:14.436 --> 0:09:16.836 audiences and we had no idea what it really meant. 0:09:16.996 --> 0:09:19.716 But I do very distinctly remember being like, you know, 0:09:19.836 --> 0:09:23.156 like Kevin Smith can make movies whatever, he can kind 0:09:23.196 --> 0:09:25.316 of do whatever he wants because he's got this group 0:09:25.396 --> 0:09:28.956 of audience who likes his movies and they like him 0:09:28.996 --> 0:09:31.596 as a person who makes movies. So he kind of 0:09:31.596 --> 0:09:34.356 has this weird built in audience, and like I remember 0:09:34.396 --> 0:09:35.916 at the time being I feel like if you could 0:09:35.916 --> 0:09:39.436 build up an audience first, maybe you get more freedom later. 0:09:39.476 --> 0:09:41.196 And that was like literally the depth of the thinking. 0:09:41.276 --> 0:09:42.756 So Brandon and I were like, well, let's do a 0:09:42.756 --> 0:09:45.596 YouTube channel, let's try stuff, let's try making stuff. In college, 0:09:45.596 --> 0:09:47.316 we were making like little videos, and we were seeing 0:09:47.356 --> 0:09:48.836 some of them pop off. Like one of my early 0:09:48.916 --> 0:09:50.916 videos was this guitar Hero video or it's just me 0:09:50.916 --> 0:09:53.676 playing Guitar Hero or a very ridiculous way, but like 0:09:54.156 --> 0:09:55.996 that popped off and it was one of those weird 0:09:56.076 --> 0:09:58.596 formative moments where we were watching it and we're like, yo, 0:09:58.676 --> 0:10:00.876 it's gonna get a million views, and they're like, wow, 0:10:00.916 --> 0:10:02.316 that's crazy. And then it hit a million views and 0:10:02.436 --> 0:10:05.756 kept going. We're like, oh, it doesn't just stop. It 0:10:05.836 --> 0:10:07.876 just keeps going like this isn't like it hits a 0:10:07.876 --> 0:10:09.556 million and then no one ever sees again, Like these 0:10:09.636 --> 0:10:13.156 keep going for a while. So like we got into 0:10:13.196 --> 0:10:15.036 this feeling of like, oh, it's so cool to try 0:10:15.036 --> 0:10:17.836 and like make something and try and have it be 0:10:17.956 --> 0:10:20.676 something that people react to and respond to emotionally, and 0:10:20.716 --> 0:10:22.836 maybe they want to share it, try to just pump 0:10:22.876 --> 0:10:24.396 those numbers as opposed to I think a lot of 0:10:24.436 --> 0:10:26.476 times a way think about artists like they they close 0:10:26.516 --> 0:10:28.316 themselves off and they do their great works and then 0:10:28.316 --> 0:10:30.596 they present it to the adoring public, where whereas in 0:10:30.636 --> 0:10:32.476 this case it was more about for us like Trama's 0:10:32.636 --> 0:10:35.316 populous approach of like, well, let's see what whether people 0:10:35.396 --> 0:10:35.916 want to see. 0:10:35.796 --> 0:10:38.596 It change your aim. It kind of did change your 0:10:38.756 --> 0:10:40.036 dream in a sense. 0:10:40.556 --> 0:10:42.996 To an extent, because I think fundamentally anybody who gets 0:10:42.996 --> 0:10:45.996 into film, especially coming at it from like a popular 0:10:45.996 --> 0:10:48.556 film standpoint, Ie, you didn't grow up watching like the 0:10:48.596 --> 0:10:51.556 experimental films of like a guy like Stan Bracket or something, 0:10:51.876 --> 0:10:54.596 and you got into movies because you saw Jurassic Park 0:10:54.836 --> 0:10:58.316 and you want to like, there is a certain and 0:10:58.356 --> 0:11:00.876 that's why to me, film is such a fascinating artistic medium. 0:11:00.916 --> 0:11:04.276 There's a certain acknowledgment of commerciality with film. There's a 0:11:04.316 --> 0:11:06.836 certain acknowledgement that this stuff costs money to make and 0:11:06.876 --> 0:11:09.436 that people need to pay money to see it in 0:11:09.516 --> 0:11:11.876 order to justify the cost. And how do you get 0:11:11.876 --> 0:11:14.396 people to see it? You need to be populist to 0:11:14.396 --> 0:11:17.076 some extent, right, And it's really interesting because that's like 0:11:17.116 --> 0:11:20.476 this inconsistency at the core of this art form because 0:11:20.476 --> 0:11:23.116 it's not pure art, but it's also not pure populist 0:11:23.276 --> 0:11:26.716 mass drivel either. It finds this balance in between, and 0:11:27.116 --> 0:11:29.836 film I think has always had that tension inside of it. 0:11:29.876 --> 0:11:31.236 So when you go back to twenty year old you, 0:11:31.636 --> 0:11:36.476 who's starting to upload stuff to YouTube, Yeah, what at 0:11:36.556 --> 0:11:38.396 that point, like if you could have been like in 0:11:38.436 --> 0:11:41.596 twenty years my dream film is to make X, Like 0:11:41.676 --> 0:11:43.356 what would you have compared it to? Would it have 0:11:43.356 --> 0:11:44.156 been in Dressing Park? 0:11:44.956 --> 0:11:46.596 I mean, like for me, it was the two things 0:11:46.636 --> 0:11:48.796 that it was the two things that I loved growing up, 0:11:48.876 --> 0:11:51.916 which was I love comedy, I love action, and to me, 0:11:51.956 --> 0:11:54.156 action comedy is one of the hardest genres that to 0:11:54.196 --> 0:11:55.596 do well because I also I grew up with like 0:11:55.596 --> 0:11:58.876 actually movies like The Matrix, And I remember a formative 0:11:58.876 --> 0:12:01.556 experience watching The Matrix in theaters was like when Neo 0:12:01.636 --> 0:12:03.956 starts blocking Agent Smith at the end with one hand, 0:12:03.996 --> 0:12:07.436 he turns into it as one hand. I remember standing 0:12:07.516 --> 0:12:10.476 up in the theater do it up, and my parents like, 0:12:10.516 --> 0:12:10.996 what are you doing? 0:12:11.036 --> 0:12:11.516 Like sit down? 0:12:11.596 --> 0:12:14.276 Like no, Like what I'm seeing here is so big 0:12:14.876 --> 0:12:17.676 and so important to me that like I can't remain 0:12:17.756 --> 0:12:20.196 seated anymore. I have to like and like I remember 0:12:20.196 --> 0:12:23.876 me like what I can't that what I didn't know 0:12:23.876 --> 0:12:26.116 what to do with myself for that, So like stuff 0:12:26.156 --> 0:12:28.436 like The Matrix was high up there, like you know, 0:12:28.516 --> 0:12:31.196 I think everybody after they saw that movie, especially of 0:12:31.196 --> 0:12:35.116 our generation of filmmakers, was like yo, slow mo diving 0:12:35.196 --> 0:12:36.756 you know, which then you know, took me down the 0:12:36.756 --> 0:12:39.276 path of you know, of course the Hong Kong Blood 0:12:39.276 --> 0:12:41.676 operas and all that, and being familiar with you know, 0:12:41.716 --> 0:12:43.836 John woodswork before The Matrix to be like, wow, finally 0:12:43.876 --> 0:12:45.756 there's like an American movie that's doing this stuff that 0:12:45.756 --> 0:12:47.836 I love in these Hong Kong movies, so like just 0:12:47.996 --> 0:12:51.436 big action movies and just like the fun of it right, 0:12:51.476 --> 0:12:54.596 Like to me, humor is like such a I loved 0:12:54.596 --> 0:12:57.116 like the melt Brooks and the Naked Gun movies and 0:12:57.156 --> 0:12:58.996 like all those the Socker Brothers movies. 0:12:59.036 --> 0:13:00.356 Like I thought that maybe like a. 0:13:00.356 --> 0:13:02.876 Dio die Hard would have been like a dream movie 0:13:02.916 --> 0:13:03.676 doing something like that. 0:13:04.356 --> 0:13:06.516 A funnier though, like it's not even funnier than that, 0:13:06.636 --> 0:13:09.316 like okay, okay, like definitely funnier because I even goofy 0:13:09.356 --> 0:13:10.316 and at the end of the day, I just I 0:13:10.356 --> 0:13:12.116 love I love film comedy too. 0:13:12.236 --> 0:13:14.756 So it's like if you could blend like Hong Kong 0:13:14.796 --> 0:13:16.036 action movies. 0:13:15.956 --> 0:13:18.916 And humor and also as a visualfects nerd, right like 0:13:18.956 --> 0:13:21.116 I love doing like the Star Wars lightsabers and doing 0:13:21.156 --> 0:13:22.716 all the cool stuff that you can do with. 0:13:22.636 --> 0:13:24.556 Computers because I was a big nerd growing up too. 0:13:25.076 --> 0:13:26.836 Somewhere in there, somewhere in there, it. 0:13:26.916 --> 0:13:29.236 Was kind of the tree well, you know, and having 0:13:29.316 --> 0:13:32.196 painted that dream, that's not too far off from what 0:13:32.276 --> 0:13:36.236 you started uploading to YouTube and YouTube, I could see 0:13:36.316 --> 0:13:37.916 where you're thinking would be that would be a good 0:13:37.956 --> 0:13:40.996 platform for it. Because an action comedy film, of course 0:13:41.076 --> 0:13:43.356 needs some sort of exposition. You need a plot, you 0:13:43.396 --> 0:13:45.076 need narrative movement. 0:13:45.436 --> 0:13:47.556 But but it could be gags. It could be gased 0:13:47.596 --> 0:13:48.276 like you don't. 0:13:48.076 --> 0:13:49.676 Need to have like a you don't need to have 0:13:49.716 --> 0:13:51.196 like a a pulp fiction. 0:13:50.956 --> 0:13:52.236 Style humanity story. 0:13:52.316 --> 0:13:54.236 Yeah, it could just be like here's a cool I mean, 0:13:54.276 --> 0:13:56.996 like right, like here's it. And how many movies get 0:13:57.036 --> 0:13:59.756 summed up by like the best kung fu fights from 0:13:59.756 --> 0:14:01.556 this movie and people just sit there on YouTube and 0:14:01.556 --> 0:14:03.156 watch the fights only you know what I mean, Like, 0:14:03.316 --> 0:14:06.156 so action has that has that almost purity of like 0:14:06.716 --> 0:14:09.796 almost like dance, right, almost like choreography. Here's just the 0:14:09.836 --> 0:14:12.596 thing on its own, here's the self contained universe, here's 0:14:12.636 --> 0:14:16.756 gags within it. But yeah, that honestly, you know, YouTube 0:14:16.796 --> 0:14:19.076 gave us the freedom to do that, so we really, 0:14:19.196 --> 0:14:21.036 we really took it and felt like we took good 0:14:21.036 --> 0:14:21.916 advantage of that. 0:14:23.196 --> 0:14:24.996 We're going to take a quick break, but when we 0:14:25.036 --> 0:14:28.156 come back. Freddie tells me about his first taste of 0:14:28.276 --> 0:14:41.116 viral success. What was your first big kind of hit 0:14:41.156 --> 0:14:41.676 on YouTube? 0:14:42.516 --> 0:14:45.916 So in twenty ten is when we started, And at 0:14:45.916 --> 0:14:47.916 the end of twenty ten, we did this video called 0:14:47.956 --> 0:14:51.916 Future first person Shooter where we took a GoPro two 0:14:52.116 --> 0:14:54.316 at the time, taped it to the side of my 0:14:54.436 --> 0:14:56.836 head and did like this sort of riff which became 0:14:56.876 --> 0:14:59.636 this visual motif that shows up throughout our work at 0:14:59.636 --> 0:15:01.636 that time. But like it was a riff on like 0:15:01.676 --> 0:15:04.716 what first person shooters looked like the perspective of the 0:15:04.796 --> 0:15:07.756 video games. Yeah, but the novelty of it was I 0:15:07.756 --> 0:15:09.676 think it was that it was real, right, and I 0:15:09.676 --> 0:15:12.916 think that for people who were really into playing video 0:15:12.916 --> 0:15:14.476 games at that time, you're just like, oh, this is 0:15:14.476 --> 0:15:17.796 an interesting imagining of like what perhaps in the future 0:15:17.876 --> 0:15:20.996 when graphics are photo realistic, maybe this is what looks like. 0:15:21.196 --> 0:15:23.436 And we were taking little jokes from multiplayer games and 0:15:23.476 --> 0:15:25.436 stuff like Call of Duty and stuff like that, and 0:15:25.516 --> 0:15:29.236 we did a little pyrotechnics illegal pyrotechnics on it, and 0:15:29.276 --> 0:15:30.956 so it had like a visual pop to it, but 0:15:31.036 --> 0:15:33.276 also just kind of looked different and also, let's tell 0:15:33.316 --> 0:15:34.956 a little story, let's get some jokes, and then let's 0:15:35.036 --> 0:15:38.076 do some stuff that looks cool. And that was around 0:15:38.156 --> 0:15:41.836 Christmas of twenty ten, I believe, and I remember it 0:15:41.916 --> 0:15:43.916 went out and then like because there was just like 0:15:44.036 --> 0:15:48.236 no content around Christmas, all of these blogs just picked 0:15:48.236 --> 0:15:50.196 it up and we just saw like in the morning 0:15:50.276 --> 0:15:53.196 everyone opened their presence and then like everyone got bored 0:15:53.236 --> 0:15:55.436 by about like twelve o'clock and then like all these 0:15:55.516 --> 0:15:57.316 video game blogs were like check it out, like this 0:15:57.356 --> 0:15:59.396 is what it looks like in the future first and 0:15:59.436 --> 0:16:00.876 it just sort of went and it went in a 0:16:00.876 --> 0:16:02.876 way in a speed that we had never seen before, 0:16:02.876 --> 0:16:06.156 like whoa, everyone's covering this and that I remember really 0:16:06.196 --> 0:16:09.276 opening my eyes being like WHOA, how quickly stuff can 0:16:09.356 --> 0:16:11.516 go and how like quickly stuff can spread. 0:16:11.596 --> 0:16:13.756 That was like my first experience with it at this point. 0:16:13.756 --> 0:16:14.916 Do you view that as your career? 0:16:16.716 --> 0:16:18.836 Yeah, so, I mean, like career is such a weird 0:16:18.836 --> 0:16:21.996 one because I feel like I've spent my whole life 0:16:22.036 --> 0:16:24.396 just kind of like going from things that I think 0:16:24.436 --> 0:16:26.796 are interesting. And I've been fortunate in that the things 0:16:26.836 --> 0:16:29.876 I find interesting also have some overlap with my ability 0:16:29.916 --> 0:16:32.636 to sort of make some money from it and sustain 0:16:32.676 --> 0:16:34.276 myself in the other ways you need. 0:16:34.196 --> 0:16:36.836 To with life. Does that make me a little basic? Probably? 0:16:36.996 --> 0:16:39.956 Probably it does. You know, I'm not gonna that's fine, 0:16:40.036 --> 0:16:42.716 That's fine, you know. But so like at the time, 0:16:42.756 --> 0:16:44.956 I remember we were again, here's another fortunate thing. At 0:16:44.956 --> 0:16:49.156 that time, we myself, these guys Sam and Nico, like, 0:16:49.276 --> 0:16:52.476 we were all living in this loft in downtown Los 0:16:52.476 --> 0:16:55.756 Angeles and it was I think our rent. Each We 0:16:55.796 --> 0:16:57.756 paid two hundred bucks a month, like two hundred two 0:16:57.756 --> 0:16:59.396 and and fifty bucks a month, and we were all 0:16:59.436 --> 0:17:04.316 sharing this giant, crazy cool former paint factory space. There 0:17:04.356 --> 0:17:06.316 are no walls, so we all slept in like one 0:17:06.396 --> 0:17:08.596 room but just different corners of the same room. 0:17:09.316 --> 0:17:09.676 Was cold. 0:17:09.676 --> 0:17:11.316 We'd like turn on the oven and like heat our 0:17:11.316 --> 0:17:13.636 hands up by the oven. But we were able to 0:17:13.636 --> 0:17:15.956 pursue YouTube because it was like, Bro, you know, I 0:17:16.316 --> 0:17:18.236 just quit my job. I was working at twice century 0:17:18.236 --> 0:17:20.156 Fox doing video game stuff, and I was like I'm 0:17:20.196 --> 0:17:21.916 done with this, and I was, you know, talking to 0:17:21.956 --> 0:17:23.836 brand or like we could do this for a year 0:17:24.436 --> 0:17:27.156 and be fine, Like because our rent is so low, 0:17:27.196 --> 0:17:29.756 we can just take that risk, right, you know, Like 0:17:29.796 --> 0:17:31.516 it was good that stuff popped out very early for 0:17:31.636 --> 0:17:34.316 us comparatively, but like we were ready to just be like, yeah, 0:17:34.356 --> 0:17:35.316 let's just do this for a year. 0:17:35.396 --> 0:17:36.036 See what happens. 0:17:36.076 --> 0:17:38.396 You know, when when your stuff starts popping off in 0:17:38.396 --> 0:17:40.796 twenty ten, you're starting to get like, you know, get 0:17:40.876 --> 0:17:44.636 big numbers on videos, like we really starting to like 0:17:44.956 --> 0:17:48.756 make money like how to lead your circumstances. 0:17:48.716 --> 0:17:49.316 A little bit. 0:17:49.396 --> 0:17:51.516 And when you when we talk about the eras of YouTube, right, 0:17:51.636 --> 0:17:53.956 that really started to take off in the second and 0:17:54.036 --> 0:17:56.076 third years of doing things, because at that point then 0:17:56.116 --> 0:17:59.636 you start to get like brand attention. There was like companies, 0:17:59.716 --> 0:18:01.836 video game companies, what have you that were starting to 0:18:01.836 --> 0:18:04.036 be like, oh, maybe we can use YouTube business alternative 0:18:04.076 --> 0:18:06.716 advertising platform, and they weren't paying as much as like 0:18:06.756 --> 0:18:09.836 TV commercials, even though anything that we did was getting 0:18:09.876 --> 0:18:12.436 more exposure for them than a teeny commercial Everwood. But 0:18:12.436 --> 0:18:15.636 but like again the context right, like nobody Madison Avenue 0:18:15.676 --> 0:18:18.756 didn't respect it in that way. So once things start 0:18:18.836 --> 0:18:20.436 to like really in terms of being like, oh this 0:18:20.516 --> 0:18:22.836 is like can be like a real like money maker 0:18:22.876 --> 0:18:24.396 for us was one you start to be like, oh, 0:18:24.396 --> 0:18:26.196 I guess we could do like a little video promoting 0:18:26.196 --> 0:18:28.076 a game. But there was that window about to your 0:18:28.076 --> 0:18:29.476 window where it was like you start to be like 0:18:29.676 --> 0:18:31.276 brand deals started to show up, and then people could 0:18:31.276 --> 0:18:33.596 start to like, oh, shoot, I can we can shoot 0:18:33.596 --> 0:18:35.156 this for this much and here's how much it's coming in, 0:18:35.196 --> 0:18:37.236 and we almost were like a little mini ad agency. 0:18:37.756 --> 0:18:40.396 It started to change things because you know, we're like, oh, okay, 0:18:40.436 --> 0:18:42.716 we can buy like a nice camera. Now, oh wait, 0:18:42.756 --> 0:18:45.356 hey we can maybe buy this light or like buy 0:18:45.396 --> 0:18:47.436 this green screen pop up thing, you know, and then 0:18:47.436 --> 0:18:50.836 they're not like crazy expensive stuff. But it started to 0:18:50.836 --> 0:18:52.756 be like, oh, this is allowing us to keep doing 0:18:52.756 --> 0:18:54.716 what we like doing. And also I think we very 0:18:54.756 --> 0:18:58.196 quickly realized that it was just great practice every week 0:18:58.276 --> 0:19:00.836 forcing yourself to make something, finish it, see it through 0:19:00.916 --> 0:19:02.876 put it up and then next week you're just doing 0:19:02.916 --> 0:19:05.756 something completely different. That process where you're forced to just 0:19:05.796 --> 0:19:08.276 take something to completion over and over and over again. 0:19:08.556 --> 0:19:10.556 I think it's a valuable craft, and I think that 0:19:10.636 --> 0:19:12.396 we realized very quickly. We're like, this is great because 0:19:12.396 --> 0:19:15.996 we get to practice visual effects, we get practice doing movies. 0:19:16.236 --> 0:19:18.836 We can make mistakes, but it's fine because next week 0:19:19.076 --> 0:19:19.556 we'll do. 0:19:19.516 --> 0:19:21.116 Another video, you know, and it doesn't matter. 0:19:21.436 --> 0:19:23.716 What was what set us apart at that time was 0:19:23.756 --> 0:19:26.036 that we really took it seriously. Like I think a 0:19:26.036 --> 0:19:27.996 lot of people, especially once money started rolling in, they're like, 0:19:28.036 --> 0:19:29.716 what's the minimum amount of work I can do to 0:19:29.796 --> 0:19:31.716 get a YouTube video up and get views. I don't 0:19:31.756 --> 0:19:33.836 think we ever had that mindset. It was always about 0:19:33.956 --> 0:19:36.116 trying to do it better and trying to improve our 0:19:36.196 --> 0:19:40.036 craft as filmmakers. We'd shoot it, we'd edit it, we'd 0:19:40.076 --> 0:19:42.036 send the edit to sound design, where I would do 0:19:42.076 --> 0:19:44.636 sound design. Brandon would then do additional vfxs. I would 0:19:44.636 --> 0:19:46.396 help out VFX. He would do the color of it. 0:19:46.516 --> 0:19:49.636 We'd do a color pass, we'd mix it in pro tools, 0:19:49.956 --> 0:19:51.756 do a fo like we were doing it like it 0:19:51.836 --> 0:19:54.356 was a full movie and we're doing one every week, 0:19:54.436 --> 0:19:57.276 So like I fucked my sleep up. But you know, 0:19:57.356 --> 0:19:59.436 like that was but that was the like the grind. 0:20:00.436 --> 0:20:02.156 No no, I. 0:20:02.076 --> 0:20:04.196 Mean like no, I mean honestly, at a certain point, 0:20:04.276 --> 0:20:05.796 like we were brand and I were doing like an 0:20:05.796 --> 0:20:09.596 all nighter every week for like two years, Like that 0:20:09.676 --> 0:20:10.916 was just the energy of the time. 0:20:10.996 --> 0:20:13.676 Yeah. Yeah, at this era when you are twenty five, 0:20:13.676 --> 0:20:16.916 you're pulling all nighters, you're making money on YouTube, you're 0:20:17.036 --> 0:20:20.836 in LA again, mid twenties, like having some level of success, 0:20:21.156 --> 0:20:23.876 How did you manage to keep focused, to have the 0:20:23.956 --> 0:20:25.876 drive to keep to pull on nighters once a week 0:20:25.916 --> 0:20:28.596 every night for two years rather than just go blow 0:20:28.676 --> 0:20:29.916 money like and you know. 0:20:29.876 --> 0:20:31.156 I mean, I think a big part of it was 0:20:31.196 --> 0:20:33.476 seeing numbers go up and being like, wow, more people 0:20:33.476 --> 0:20:35.556 are seeing this and we're reaching more people sort of 0:20:35.556 --> 0:20:37.276 on a week by week basis, which was really just 0:20:37.356 --> 0:20:40.356 exciting to just note that alone puts a lot of 0:20:40.556 --> 0:20:42.516 gas in the engine, so to speak, because it's just fun, 0:20:42.596 --> 0:20:43.636 right and at the end of the day, we got 0:20:43.676 --> 0:20:45.676 to do whatever we want to do every week, and 0:20:46.076 --> 0:20:48.556 there was a certain creative freedom to that challenge of 0:20:48.596 --> 0:20:49.756 being like, all right, well we're gonna do this week 0:20:49.756 --> 0:20:51.876 how we're gonna top ourselves. And it required a lot 0:20:51.916 --> 0:20:54.396 of energy, required a love of effort, required your full 0:20:54.716 --> 0:20:57.436 life dedication towards it. But I think the difference was 0:20:58.316 --> 0:21:00.836 the end goal was always I want to make things 0:21:00.876 --> 0:21:04.156 that people see. And how they do that. Is it 0:21:04.196 --> 0:21:06.276 in a dark theater that they pay fifteen bucks for 0:21:06.396 --> 0:21:08.356 or is it on their phone right before classes start 0:21:08.396 --> 0:21:08.796 in school. 0:21:09.196 --> 0:21:10.276 To me, that's immaterial. 0:21:11.236 --> 0:21:13.356 I don't care about that as much comparatively, right, Like, 0:21:13.436 --> 0:21:15.156 I know a lot of filmmakers in my generation talking 0:21:15.156 --> 0:21:16.876 about the cinematic experience and you got to see it 0:21:16.876 --> 0:21:19.076 on the big screen, And to me, I'm like, listen, 0:21:19.676 --> 0:21:22.556 if I get that luxury, great, But right now where 0:21:22.596 --> 0:21:26.036 I'm at, like, yo, if anybody just sees it, I'm happy, 0:21:26.116 --> 0:21:28.116 Like I don't care. If I'm not gonna put any 0:21:28.156 --> 0:21:31.116 restrictions on it. I'm already nobody's I'm already in nobody, 0:21:31.156 --> 0:21:32.396 you know what I mean. Like, I can't afford to 0:21:32.396 --> 0:21:34.596 be like you can only see myself. I'm like, anywhere 0:21:34.676 --> 0:21:36.756 anyhow you can find that you can see it, Like, 0:21:36.796 --> 0:21:39.876 I'm happy. I don't care so to that to that extent. 0:21:40.076 --> 0:21:42.716 Right if you said, listen, I'm gonna give you a choice. 0:21:42.756 --> 0:21:45.636 Would you rather have a theatrical release that does okay? 0:21:45.876 --> 0:21:48.276 Or would you rather have like a home video iTunes 0:21:48.316 --> 0:21:50.396 only streaming only thing, but a lot of more. 0:21:50.236 --> 0:21:50.916 People see it. 0:21:51.356 --> 0:21:53.076 At the end of the day, I think that I 0:21:53.116 --> 0:21:56.196 got into film because I like entertaining people and I 0:21:56.316 --> 0:21:58.836 like entertaining myself. Right, I think I find a lot 0:21:58.836 --> 0:22:00.276 of stuff we do very funny too, and I get 0:22:00.316 --> 0:22:02.556 a kick out of it. Right, So if that becomes 0:22:02.836 --> 0:22:05.316 sort of higher on your list of priorities than other 0:22:05.556 --> 0:22:09.676 totally valid artistic sensibilities, right then I think that sort 0:22:09.676 --> 0:22:10.796 of shapes your worldview a little bit. 0:22:10.836 --> 0:22:12.636 I think it might be interesting to answer those to 0:22:12.716 --> 0:22:14.596 tease those out a little bit more, Like, like, you 0:22:14.636 --> 0:22:17.516 picked the theatrical release, roup, what do you think then 0:22:17.596 --> 0:22:19.196 happens to your career theoretically? 0:22:19.236 --> 0:22:21.916 So I think that in I think that in Hollywood 0:22:22.276 --> 0:22:25.836 and this industry specifically, there's a halo effect of having 0:22:25.876 --> 0:22:28.476 done things right. Like, only if you've done something in 0:22:28.556 --> 0:22:30.636 the exact context they're looking at, do they think you 0:22:30.676 --> 0:22:32.636 can do that thing in that context? So your constant 0:22:32.836 --> 0:22:35.436 I've felt, at least in my experience, I've always felt 0:22:35.476 --> 0:22:37.636 like I'm constantly needing to prove myself and prove I 0:22:37.636 --> 0:22:40.676 can do something again and again and again. And what 0:22:40.796 --> 0:22:42.716 it does for your career if you get a film 0:22:42.756 --> 0:22:44.756 and it's you know, sort of the more atracial, theatical approach, 0:22:44.916 --> 0:22:47.276 and it allows you those opportunities that are more in 0:22:47.396 --> 0:22:48.996 that direction of things. 0:22:49.156 --> 0:22:49.316 Right. 0:22:49.596 --> 0:22:51.036 And by the way, I will note that this is 0:22:51.276 --> 0:22:53.756 sort of it's where a very weird time period because 0:22:53.756 --> 0:22:56.116 stuff is shifting. But like I would say, let's say 0:22:56.316 --> 0:22:59.076 a few years ago, that's the kind of thing that 0:22:59.116 --> 0:23:01.556 would say like, okay, cool, maybe you could you might 0:23:01.636 --> 0:23:04.756 be opened up now to a commercial directing gig or 0:23:04.796 --> 0:23:07.476 like a television episode. Now you get a couple television 0:23:07.516 --> 0:23:10.396 direction credits, or it makes it easier for like, hey, 0:23:10.436 --> 0:23:12.916 I want to raise money in the traditional routes for 0:23:12.996 --> 0:23:14.716 another theatrical feature film. 0:23:14.836 --> 0:23:15.436 Oh, you've done it. 0:23:15.476 --> 0:23:17.836 Once already and you've hear some numbers for it. Okay, 0:23:17.916 --> 0:23:19.796 you're a more trustworthy ncity. You're more likely to get 0:23:19.836 --> 0:23:21.836 that compared to someone who's like, I've never directed a 0:23:21.876 --> 0:23:23.676 future film before and I want some money for that. 0:23:23.996 --> 0:23:27.476 So it opens up the doors in that direction of 0:23:27.516 --> 0:23:29.996 the industry, right, And I think what's interesting is that 0:23:30.036 --> 0:23:32.796 those are different doors. It's not there's not a lot overlap. 0:23:32.796 --> 0:23:35.396 Because then let's take the other direction. Let's take a okay, cool, 0:23:35.436 --> 0:23:38.596 you made a movie. It became huge on iTunes. Everyone 0:23:38.636 --> 0:23:42.156 downloaded on iTunes, incredible numbers on it did better than 0:23:42.196 --> 0:23:44.316 like commercial movies that week, like that sort of thing. 0:23:44.316 --> 0:23:46.396 A lot of people saw what that opens up potentially, 0:23:46.996 --> 0:23:49.876 like crowdfunding, for example, in that scenario becomes a little 0:23:49.876 --> 0:23:52.836 bit easier for you compared to like an indie movie 0:23:52.876 --> 0:23:55.916 that someone's done that nobody's necessarily seen. I think you're 0:23:55.916 --> 0:23:57.756 more likely to access the direct to audience thing, and 0:23:57.756 --> 0:23:59.836 I think it's a much more DIY route in that direction. 0:23:59.916 --> 0:24:01.676 Right when'm talking about crowdfunding, I'm talking about that sort 0:24:01.676 --> 0:24:04.236 of stuff. But again, different doors, different directions. 0:24:04.276 --> 0:24:06.596 So that really and that's really scenario released in iTunes. 0:24:06.876 --> 0:24:11.076 It's successful. It's taking you further away from the traditional route, 0:24:11.236 --> 0:24:13.916 opening you up though to an audience of people who 0:24:13.996 --> 0:24:17.156 might then you might be able to fund crowd source 0:24:17.196 --> 0:24:20.116 fund or maybe then do it the actual and then 0:24:20.116 --> 0:24:21.036 maybe created a. 0:24:20.996 --> 0:24:23.436 Film that you could release potentially right like or or 0:24:23.836 --> 0:24:25.676 the other direction where it's like, oh maybe we just 0:24:25.756 --> 0:24:28.436 keep doing stuff online only I know, you know, there's 0:24:28.436 --> 0:24:29.956 some some folks I know who are like, yeah, they 0:24:29.956 --> 0:24:33.036 don't care about theatrial release, but they they aim everything 0:24:33.036 --> 0:24:36.476 around the iTunes release and how they digitally sort of 0:24:36.516 --> 0:24:37.116 monetize it. 0:24:37.196 --> 0:24:38.956 Right, So like that's where we're at right now. We 0:24:38.996 --> 0:24:39.236 did this. 0:24:39.316 --> 0:24:42.356 We started a podcast, a Dungeons and Dragons podcast called 0:24:42.436 --> 0:24:45.356 Dungeons and Daddies, which is not a BDSM podcast. It's 0:24:45.356 --> 0:24:47.516 a Dungeons and Dragons podcast, and it's like it's it's 0:24:47.516 --> 0:24:49.236 a story where it's like an improv comedy thing. We 0:24:49.356 --> 0:24:54.396 like myself and four friends we play Dungeons and Dragons 0:24:54.436 --> 0:24:57.076 and we play four dads, like human dads from our 0:24:57.116 --> 0:24:59.556 world sent into a fantasy world to like rescue their kids, 0:24:59.556 --> 0:25:02.036 and it's like dad humor and all that stuff, you know. 0:25:02.036 --> 0:25:04.356 We started a Patreon for it. The podcast has been 0:25:04.356 --> 0:25:06.676 growing over the past couple of years. Matt and myself, 0:25:06.716 --> 0:25:08.836 my directing partner, we were like, all right, cool, this 0:25:08.916 --> 0:25:10.796 is our way of funding a movie. We're gonna use 0:25:10.796 --> 0:25:12.516 this and we fund the movie. So we shot the movie 0:25:12.596 --> 0:25:14.676 at the end of last year. We're in post production 0:25:14.796 --> 0:25:17.116 it now, and we're gonna go like the festival route 0:25:17.116 --> 0:25:19.796 for it, and like worst case scenario, we got good 0:25:19.796 --> 0:25:22.956 practice and we'll do another one. So you know, look, 0:25:22.996 --> 0:25:25.516 I think I think you can go in any direction 0:25:25.596 --> 0:25:28.196 and you can find your way to it. What matters 0:25:28.476 --> 0:25:30.556 is do you want that? Do you want to actually 0:25:30.596 --> 0:25:33.276 make movies? Because in the course of my career, I've 0:25:33.276 --> 0:25:34.716 found a lot of people, and I've met a lot 0:25:34.716 --> 0:25:36.996 of people who are doing things because it was getting views. 0:25:37.116 --> 0:25:39.436 They're doing things because it was making them money, and like, 0:25:39.516 --> 0:25:41.036 I don't know a single one of them who managed 0:25:41.076 --> 0:25:43.036 to keep it up. Like they all do it and 0:25:43.036 --> 0:25:44.236 they love it and they make up you know, some 0:25:44.316 --> 0:25:46.876 of them make boatloads of cash doing it, but then 0:25:46.916 --> 0:25:48.436 at certain point they're like, I gotta do something else. 0:25:48.636 --> 0:25:50.516 But like for me, I feel like very fortunate in 0:25:50.516 --> 0:25:52.316 that I've managed to find the thing I like to 0:25:52.316 --> 0:25:54.996 do early on. So this sort of exploring of like oh, 0:25:55.076 --> 0:25:57.116 let's get into like sort of longer form film. It 0:25:57.196 --> 0:25:59.316 was because you know, we were seeing YouTube change and 0:25:59.356 --> 0:26:00.676 we were like, yeah, I don't think we kind of 0:26:00.716 --> 0:26:03.276 like we don't work here as well anymore. We don't 0:26:03.276 --> 0:26:05.356 have the stamina to keep up that kind of schedule 0:26:05.356 --> 0:26:07.676 that we were doing anymore. And you know, we felt 0:26:07.676 --> 0:26:09.436 like we said a lot in the world world of 0:26:09.476 --> 0:26:11.116 short film, and I want to be like, what can 0:26:11.156 --> 0:26:13.196 I say now in longer form formats? And what are 0:26:13.236 --> 0:26:14.836 the kind of stories I can tell in longer forms? 0:26:14.836 --> 0:26:17.276 So that was from YouTube to like the web series, 0:26:17.316 --> 0:26:18.556 to Do is a couple of shows for Hulu and 0:26:18.596 --> 0:26:20.676 now doing trying to do a movie. It's it's all 0:26:20.796 --> 0:26:23.956 just sort of the same vein of artistic exploration. So 0:26:23.996 --> 0:26:26.236 it really just comes down to I think if you 0:26:26.396 --> 0:26:28.716 love filmmaking, you genuinely do love it, and you would 0:26:28.716 --> 0:26:30.876 do it no matter what. It doesn't matter if anyone's watching, 0:26:30.876 --> 0:26:32.316 it doesn't matter if you can make money off of it, 0:26:32.436 --> 0:26:34.676 you take a job and do it on the side. 0:26:34.676 --> 0:26:36.636 If that's how much you love it, that's I think 0:26:36.676 --> 0:26:38.596 what you need to be asking yourself because if it's 0:26:38.596 --> 0:26:40.556 not that fine, I think you have to find something 0:26:40.596 --> 0:26:41.796 that is that way for you. 0:26:43.116 --> 0:26:46.276 Hey, stick around, because after the break started from the bottom. 0:26:46.316 --> 0:26:49.316 Producer David Jah joins me on Mike as we ask 0:26:49.396 --> 0:26:52.756 Freddie about the obstacles he faced in Hollywood as an 0:26:52.796 --> 0:27:01.796 Asian creator. David, I know you're a fan of Freddie. 0:27:01.796 --> 0:27:02.356 Anything you want to. 0:27:02.356 --> 0:27:06.396 Ask, you know, Freddy, I will say, when I was 0:27:06.436 --> 0:27:10.476 grown up, YouTube did seem like a way for Asian 0:27:10.636 --> 0:27:15.596 filmmakers to sort of circumvent the institution of Hollywood. It was, 0:27:15.836 --> 0:27:19.796 and it was a breadth of fresh air to see 0:27:20.836 --> 0:27:21.996 a yellow face out there. 0:27:22.116 --> 0:27:22.476 Yeah. 0:27:22.596 --> 0:27:24.436 So I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on 0:27:25.076 --> 0:27:26.076 being an Asian creator. 0:27:26.596 --> 0:27:29.756 So here's the way I feel about that, which is, 0:27:30.436 --> 0:27:32.396 when I think about myself as an American, I think 0:27:32.436 --> 0:27:35.876 myself as a human being, I don't ever want to 0:27:35.916 --> 0:27:40.396 feel like I'm constrained by anything. So for me, and 0:27:40.436 --> 0:27:42.076 there's Asian stories that I want to tell, but I 0:27:42.116 --> 0:27:43.916 feel like I don't want to be someone to be 0:27:43.996 --> 0:27:47.276 like and they only tell Asian stories, Right, I feel 0:27:47.276 --> 0:27:49.756 like that is in and of itself, its own cage 0:27:50.116 --> 0:27:53.916 that you get segmented into and can be discarded and ignored. 0:27:54.036 --> 0:27:54.156 Right. 0:27:54.476 --> 0:27:57.356 I would much rather be someone to be like who 0:27:57.396 --> 0:28:02.036 has the freedom that is implicit to white filmmakers, which 0:28:02.036 --> 0:28:05.276 is you can make something and cover any subject. So 0:28:06.516 --> 0:28:08.996 in that sense, I think that when I look at, 0:28:09.236 --> 0:28:12.236 you know, sort of the generations to come, I think 0:28:12.276 --> 0:28:14.316 the message that I would want to send is like, 0:28:14.396 --> 0:28:16.596 not one of like stick to the world that you 0:28:16.716 --> 0:28:18.196 know and only say that it's like no, no, no. I 0:28:18.196 --> 0:28:22.116 think art is about exploring and empathizing with other viewpoints. 0:28:22.116 --> 0:28:24.556 And maybe I'll overreach, maybe I'll try and tell a 0:28:24.556 --> 0:28:26.276 story that I like, ooh, didn't get all the nuance 0:28:26.356 --> 0:28:26.596 on that. 0:28:26.596 --> 0:28:27.636 That's the risk of art. 0:28:27.716 --> 0:28:29.636 And I think that I just look around and I 0:28:29.676 --> 0:28:33.556 see so few, especially because you know there's a stereotype 0:28:33.596 --> 0:28:36.116 with with sort of Asian parenting and growing up. I 0:28:36.156 --> 0:28:41.476 see so few artistic Asian types. And then that bums 0:28:41.476 --> 0:28:44.116 me out because like it's devastating. It's devastating, it's a 0:28:44.116 --> 0:28:46.196 threat to us. So what do you make of this 0:28:46.316 --> 0:28:51.476 recent trend then, where Asian actors, Asian movie makers, Asian 0:28:51.516 --> 0:28:55.156 media is sort of being pushed towards this pigeonhole where 0:28:55.356 --> 0:28:56.796 we have to be Asian. 0:28:56.956 --> 0:28:57.116 Yeah. 0:28:57.236 --> 0:28:59.836 Yeah, like that's our thing now, Like that's our genre. 0:28:59.916 --> 0:29:00.076 Now. 0:29:00.236 --> 0:29:01.236 I was literally joking. 0:29:01.276 --> 0:29:03.196 I was literally joking the other day where I'm like, 0:29:03.636 --> 0:29:05.996 I can't wait until we get past this era of 0:29:06.396 --> 0:29:09.956 movies where our parents apologize to us as like the 0:29:09.956 --> 0:29:11.356 plot point, like the. 0:29:11.436 --> 0:29:15.476 Tropes, man, it's so bad, it's out of control. You know, 0:29:15.596 --> 0:29:20.196 a lot of Asian Americans don't like Asian American content. 0:29:20.676 --> 0:29:23.076 Yeah, And so to me, at least, to me at least, 0:29:23.156 --> 0:29:24.796 what's interesting about it is like there's kind of two 0:29:24.836 --> 0:29:28.836 factors that play there, Right, There's there is a palatability 0:29:29.156 --> 0:29:33.996 towards a predominantly white dominated quote unquote mainstream culture. 0:29:34.076 --> 0:29:34.236 Right. 0:29:34.516 --> 0:29:36.636 What YouTube and online has opened up is that there 0:29:36.636 --> 0:29:39.716 are niche cultures that are huge, right, Like K pop 0:29:39.836 --> 0:29:43.116 is exploded because of online video. Right, So the question 0:29:43.116 --> 0:29:46.236 of mainstream possibility, to me, the only answer to when 0:29:46.316 --> 0:29:47.556 someone tries to pigeonhole you. 0:29:47.556 --> 0:29:49.756 Is you must resist it as hard as you can. 0:29:49.876 --> 0:29:51.796 You must go as hard as you can in the 0:29:51.836 --> 0:29:55.276 opposite direction in order to not be pigeonholed. I think 0:29:55.276 --> 0:29:57.436 that the obligation is not to be like, what is 0:29:57.436 --> 0:30:00.036 the most commercially viable thing that I can fit in 0:30:00.076 --> 0:30:03.316 to the white media landscape that will get us the 0:30:03.356 --> 0:30:04.076 sort of athletes? 0:30:04.196 --> 0:30:04.396 Nah? 0:30:04.476 --> 0:30:07.556 Fuck that That's why, honestly, that's why I think about 0:30:08.076 --> 0:30:11.276 Better Luck Tomorrow so much. Justin Lynn's film that you 0:30:11.276 --> 0:30:13.676 know he started his career off with, which depicted these 0:30:13.956 --> 0:30:15.556 very studious. 0:30:15.116 --> 0:30:16.516 Group of Asians doing crimes. 0:30:16.556 --> 0:30:18.556 You know, the very famous example in the film History 0:30:18.556 --> 0:30:21.036 where he played that at a festival he was sun 0:30:21.116 --> 0:30:23.436 Dance and like a critic stood up and I was like, 0:30:23.636 --> 0:30:27.156 you're depicting Asians in this like negative light, Like how 0:30:27.156 --> 0:30:29.196 can you do this as an Asian filmmaker? And Roger 0:30:29.196 --> 0:30:30.756 Ebert stood up and I was like, no, man, he 0:30:30.756 --> 0:30:31.716 should be able to say that. 0:30:31.796 --> 0:30:32.156 Why not? 0:30:32.556 --> 0:30:34.756 Hell yeah, we do crimes, do you know what I'm saying? Like, 0:30:35.116 --> 0:30:36.556 that's the kind of stuff where I want. I want 0:30:36.556 --> 0:30:38.876 to be like, listen, this stuff is out there. How 0:30:38.916 --> 0:30:41.156 we respond to it is within our control, you know. 0:30:41.236 --> 0:30:43.476 And I think that, like it's always going to be 0:30:44.116 --> 0:30:48.716 commercially viable to hw with white culture. There's gravity. The 0:30:48.756 --> 0:30:51.156 gravity is going to pull you towards what's the mainstream 0:30:51.196 --> 0:30:53.436 pop culture accessibility? Right it's and I think it's up 0:30:53.476 --> 0:30:55.196 to us, as if you're a true artist, it's up 0:30:55.236 --> 0:30:57.156 to you to like fire the boost of rockets, be 0:30:57.236 --> 0:30:58.596 like no, hell no, we're going over here. 0:30:58.796 --> 0:30:59.356 You know what I mean? 0:31:00.876 --> 0:31:05.636 Yo, Freddy over nine million subscribers, one point six billion views. Man, 0:31:05.756 --> 0:31:09.596 by any measure of success, like your successful filmilmmaker, Like, 0:31:09.636 --> 0:31:12.956 I feel like in another era there's a war where 0:31:13.036 --> 0:31:16.996 you should be Kevin Smith, Robert Rodriguez if you wanted 0:31:17.036 --> 0:31:18.916 to be right, Like, if you wanted to have that, 0:31:19.396 --> 0:31:22.596 you should be Quentin Tarantino if you wanted to have that. 0:31:22.716 --> 0:31:26.276 Right Maybe, I mean, look, I mean been given the 0:31:26.276 --> 0:31:29.396 same opportunities at least that these people were given. Right, 0:31:29.436 --> 0:31:32.116 But like it feels like the given the level of 0:31:32.116 --> 0:31:33.716 audience's been able to build the level of success you've 0:31:33.716 --> 0:31:35.356 been on the to have as a filmmaker, Like you 0:31:35.356 --> 0:31:38.156 should be given the opportunities that a lot of like 0:31:38.236 --> 0:31:41.516 indie filmmakers have been given over the years. Like is 0:31:41.556 --> 0:31:46.036 there do you feel like the predominant view of Asian 0:31:46.036 --> 0:31:49.396 involvement in cinema has been a factor in that? 0:31:49.716 --> 0:31:53.116 Or I mean, I think there's always things in life 0:31:53.116 --> 0:31:55.036 that are some parts are in your hands, some parts 0:31:55.076 --> 0:31:57.516 are out of your hands, right, Like there's certain things 0:31:57.516 --> 0:32:00.356 that's just like I can't control what the taste is 0:32:00.436 --> 0:32:02.276 and like, hey, you know what, here's the book that 0:32:02.556 --> 0:32:04.476 was the Asian book that got popular and then you know, 0:32:04.556 --> 0:32:06.716 right like that a lot of the stuff in life 0:32:06.756 --> 0:32:08.716 I think is out of your hands and then other 0:32:08.756 --> 0:32:11.316 stuff in my hands. I think I've always tried to 0:32:11.916 --> 0:32:15.276 stay as close to my sort of artistic principles, guiding 0:32:15.276 --> 0:32:16.396 principles as possible. 0:32:16.756 --> 0:32:18.116 Those are the choices that you make. 0:32:18.396 --> 0:32:19.956 And for me, I think that you know, there certainly 0:32:20.036 --> 0:32:22.836 must be some I think there's of course, externalizing factors 0:32:22.876 --> 0:32:25.356 that have influenced the path that I took. 0:32:25.436 --> 0:32:27.476 Kind of bullshit like Kevin Smith can make a career 0:32:27.476 --> 0:32:30.116 out of clerks, Like why can't see it? 0:32:30.196 --> 0:32:33.836 Might be like I'm happy though, I'll be able to. 0:32:33.836 --> 0:32:37.196 Make some sort of commercial career out of in film, 0:32:37.276 --> 0:32:38.596 out of Rocket Jump. 0:32:39.236 --> 0:32:41.956 Even you said earlier like you keep having to prove yourself, 0:32:41.996 --> 0:32:43.076 like like it's not good enough. 0:32:43.236 --> 0:32:45.796 See, I love that, but I love that you like that. 0:32:45.876 --> 0:32:48.516 I love being in a position where I feel like 0:32:48.556 --> 0:32:49.716 I have to prove myself. 0:32:50.276 --> 0:32:51.796 But that's the thing I love that. 0:32:51.876 --> 0:32:54.116 I don't know why I'm addicted to it because I 0:32:54.156 --> 0:32:59.156 think that, like I think that that place is where 0:32:59.276 --> 0:33:01.676 it's like, that's where it's all on the line, and 0:33:01.716 --> 0:33:03.396 to me, it's like it's your choice, right. You can 0:33:03.436 --> 0:33:05.556 either be like, dang, the system's unfair, or maybe this 0:33:05.676 --> 0:33:07.196 is an Asian thing. I grew up here the Ox. 0:33:07.236 --> 0:33:08.876 Everyone says Ye're the Ox. They just put their head 0:33:08.916 --> 0:33:10.876 down work. That's like that's how I feel. I just 0:33:10.876 --> 0:33:12.956 put my head down, like, all right, listen, the world 0:33:13.036 --> 0:33:14.796 is not rewarding me in the way or whatever. 0:33:14.796 --> 0:33:15.156 I don't care. 0:33:15.156 --> 0:33:16.796 I'm just gonna keep working on my stuff because I 0:33:16.836 --> 0:33:18.556 love doing this the way. I feel like as long 0:33:18.556 --> 0:33:20.676 as I can at least sustain my career, at least 0:33:20.676 --> 0:33:22.636 I can kind of like pay for my rent and like, 0:33:22.716 --> 0:33:25.436 you know, pay for my food. I'm gonna keep going 0:33:25.556 --> 0:33:27.596 kind of the direction, the direction that I go. 0:33:27.956 --> 0:33:30.076 You know, it's funny. I feel like that's I feel 0:33:30.076 --> 0:33:33.996 like that's the primary way people of color become successful 0:33:34.116 --> 0:33:35.836 is just learning to put your head down and work. 0:33:35.916 --> 0:33:37.516 Because when you lift your head up and you start 0:33:37.556 --> 0:33:40.516 to realize, yeah, this a little depressing. 0:33:40.516 --> 0:33:41.036 A little fit. 0:33:41.156 --> 0:33:47.356 Yeah, it's so sad. We gotta just put our head 0:33:47.396 --> 0:33:50.676 down and ignore it. Shit, man, Freddie want thank you 0:33:50.756 --> 0:33:56.036 may Yeah, thank you so much. That was Freddy Wong, 0:33:56.156 --> 0:34:00.956 one of the og stars of YouTube and early influencers. Obviously, 0:34:00.996 --> 0:34:03.516 his career in media has taken some twists and turns, 0:34:03.596 --> 0:34:05.076 but it's incredible what. 0:34:05.116 --> 0:34:08.316 He's managed to accomplish. All from a YouTube channel that 0:34:08.356 --> 0:34:13.676 he started to as the six called Freddy w startup 0:34:13.676 --> 0:34:16.756 from the Bottom is produced by David Jaw, edited by 0:34:16.876 --> 0:34:20.916 Keishaw Williams, engineered by Bent Holliday, Booked by Laura Morgan 0:34:21.316 --> 0:34:25.036 with production help from Lea Rose. The show is executive 0:34:25.036 --> 0:34:27.596 produced by Jacob Goldstein, who's not all up in the 0:34:27.676 --> 0:34:32.076 videos for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music's by Bent Holliday 0:34:32.116 --> 0:34:35.476 and David Jaw featuring Anthony Yaggs and Savanna Joe Lack. 0:34:36.276 --> 0:34:38.316 Listen to Start Up from the Bottom. Wherever you get 0:34:38.356 --> 0:34:41.676 your podcasts and if you want ad free episodes available 0:34:41.716 --> 0:34:45.356 one week early sign up for Pushkin Plus. Check out 0:34:45.356 --> 0:34:49.116 Pushkin dot Fm or the Apple Show page for more information. 0:34:49.636 --> 0:34:51.636 If you like her show, please remember to share, rate, 0:34:51.636 --> 0:34:55.556 and review us on your podcast app. I'm justin Richmond.