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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: We welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It's Thursday, October twenty third,

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Speaker 2: and guys, we have a stack knight of headlines. Listen

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Speaker 2: to the suspect that has been charged in the murder

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Speaker 2: of twenty three year old Kata Scott. He is now

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Speaker 2: in custody and her manner of death has in fact

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Speaker 2: been revealed. Also, Florida's Attorney General is literally suspending roadblocks,

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Speaker 2: basically calling it a hotspot for child predators. We were

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Speaker 2: just talking about this. This is a major major development.

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Speaker 2: Also at USC, the University of Southern California, a student

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Speaker 2: has been charged for serially drugging and sexually abusing women,

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Speaker 2: a PhD student, I might add. And in lighter news,

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Speaker 2: our KT family member Alan Waterer is here to discuss

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Speaker 2: his podcast, The Donut Shop Murders, which is a really

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Speaker 2: twisted story about a family and they're hidden criminal operation

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Speaker 2: they had running, and he is coming up to discuss

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Speaker 2: all of that and more, Ladies, I missed you. I

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Speaker 2: missed you last night. And see do you have fun

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Speaker 2: with your other friends? Well, no, no, I listen. You

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Speaker 2: guys are my truest. You're just geographically we are. We're

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Speaker 2: awry right now. So I have one friend here and

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Speaker 2: now I have three. So yes, and you guys had

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Speaker 2: such a great job last night. So hats off, hats off,

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Speaker 2: hats off. And by the way, anyone listening, of course

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Speaker 2: we want to hear from you eight eight eight three

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Speaker 2: one crime or you just leave us a talk back,

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Speaker 2: or you could always hit us up on our social

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Speaker 2: media and just dm us. In fact, let's go to

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Speaker 2: a talk back.

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Speaker 3: Now, Hey, guys, this is Brittany and the Philippines and

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Speaker 3: I fight trafficking and I just wanted to chime in

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Speaker 3: on a couple of things. I was listening to your

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Speaker 3: using equestrian or therapy, and we actually use scuba diving

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Speaker 3: and time in the ocean and water therapy to help

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Speaker 3: with anxiety and PTSD for our kids. So this is

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Speaker 3: part two because I only had thirty seconds, but I

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Speaker 3: was listening to you guys talk about trafficking and roadblocks

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Speaker 3: and one of the biggest prevention seminars that we do

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Speaker 3: with our kids in the Philippines is how to spot

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Speaker 3: predators on games like that and just on social media

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Speaker 3: because they are just primed to get groomed and a

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Speaker 3: lot of times are ignorant. So thanks so much for

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Speaker 3: your podcast.

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Speaker 2: Such a great one. Yeah, body, I know this is

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Speaker 2: a story that you've been tracked, you know, tracking all day.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the Roadblock stuff, and thank you so much for that.

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Speaker 4: Talk about Brittany and wow Philippines.

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Speaker 5: Wow, I know, ps way to make the most of

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Speaker 5: your thirty seconds, jam packed.

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Speaker 2: You're a pro.

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Speaker 4: So she fights trafficking and they in the Philippines they

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Speaker 4: educate I guess the children on how to spot these

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Speaker 4: predators on these games. And man, we could use some

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Speaker 4: of that education right now, right Uh. The Florida Attorney

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Speaker 4: General is taking matters into his own hands at this point.

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Speaker 4: He has launched a criminal probe into Roadblocks over child

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Speaker 4: safety concerns, and this is joining a growing wave of

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Speaker 4: lawsuits that the government is accusing the platform of enabling

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Speaker 4: predator access to minors. You know, we've talked about this before.

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Speaker 4: One thing we do here on True Crime tonight is

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Speaker 4: we really try to we're trying to We're not trying

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Speaker 4: to scare parents, right, We're just trying to educate a

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Speaker 4: little bit about and Listen. I'm certain that most parents

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Speaker 4: probably know all this stuff, but there might be one

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Speaker 4: or two. And if if we can help just one

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Speaker 4: or two parents, I think then we've done our job, right.

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Speaker 2: I nobody knows that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I actually say I disagree.

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Speaker 2: People don't realize this. Okay, roadblocks is I don't freewhere.

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Speaker 2: It is honesty, probably very hard to escape as a parent,

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Speaker 2: and it's sort of steered toward younger kids in furie.

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Speaker 2: You know, as a parent, if you look at the

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Speaker 2: cover art, there's no blood in gore, does it? It

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Speaker 2: seems appropriate? And in of itself it's yes, it looks childlike.

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Speaker 2: So the fact that this is actually a hotbed, as

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Speaker 2: the Attorney General of Florida is saying, is astounding, and

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Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that we're talking about.

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Speaker 4: It, right, So the Attorney General. You know, Okay, if

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Speaker 4: you don't know what rollbox is, it's an online gaming

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Speaker 4: platform with millions and millions of users, many of them

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Speaker 4: are children, and it is facing increasing scrutiny and litigation

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Speaker 4: alleging that it's design and moderation systems allow sexual predators

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Speaker 4: to connect and groom minors. So basically what they're saying

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Speaker 4: is that, you know, you don't have really good moderation

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Speaker 4: controls in the game within and of itself to monitor

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Speaker 4: for these activities, and so you need to implement a

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Speaker 4: new design feature or whatnot. But until then, we're done.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: So, several US states, including Kentucky and Louisiana, as well

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Speaker 4: as effective families, have filed lawsuits claiming Roadblocks has failed

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Speaker 4: to implement sufficient safety protocols and age verification tools to

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Speaker 4: prevent such abuse. Wow, so this is kind of a

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Speaker 4: big deal. You know, I know a lot of kids

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Speaker 4: are kind of addicted a little bit to Roadblocks, right,

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Speaker 4: and it's part of their social.

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Speaker 2: Restructed Yes, I mean you, in fact, you're kicked out

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Speaker 2: of your social group. This supplies the most social media, right. So,

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Speaker 2: and to our caller's point, you know, I can barely

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Speaker 2: navigate the world. Can you imagine being a kid with

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Speaker 2: you know, the purest of brains. That's not being impressionable,

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Speaker 2: that is just being a kid. So the fact that

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Speaker 2: people are praying on that it's not surprising, But I

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Speaker 2: don't know what the safeguards should be. I don't.

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Speaker 5: I mean, there are camps, you can send your children

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Speaker 5: to roadblox camps, how to design your own world, how

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Speaker 5: to this so it really it is a thing that

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Speaker 5: not a lot of people realize. And also how quickly

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Speaker 5: these predators can change children's lives. It can happen very quickly.

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Speaker 2: And keep in mind this was really because of COVID, right,

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Speaker 2: so you know, correct me if I'm going, but really,

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Speaker 2: robots exploded when COVID hit and everybody was home, and

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Speaker 2: every kid suddenly had a tablet and a computer, and

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Speaker 2: there was no way to interact with friends, and it

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Speaker 2: had sort of this like elementary school vibe, maybe middle school,

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Speaker 2: Like it didn't seem like, oh, we're all the scary,

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Speaker 2: bloody things, right, so this seemed like a very safe choice,

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Speaker 2: a very elementary basic choice, and everybody was online, so

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Speaker 2: there was no way to avoid it. That's how kids interacted, right,

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Speaker 2: and what it may still do.

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Speaker 4: And as I think Courtney you pointed out, like this

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Speaker 4: is part of like the social group dynamics that kids

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Speaker 4: are you know, at school and their friends all play, right,

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Speaker 4: So you can't just say, okay, kid junior, you no

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Speaker 4: more roadblocks, because then they're they're cut off, they're ostracized, right,

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Speaker 4: So socially it affects them if you just take the

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Speaker 4: game away.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: So it's just not as easy as I make it

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Speaker 4: out to be, Like when I say I would never

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Speaker 4: I would never allow roadblocks in my home, and I

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Speaker 4: stand by that, by the way, But I know it's

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Speaker 4: not that easy.

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Speaker 6: It's just not I haven't played it. Could I ask

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Speaker 6: a question if I don't know if any of you

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Speaker 6: are familiar, like are there parental controls that like you

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Speaker 6: could limit who the child is talking to? Or like,

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Speaker 6: can you are there any kind of ways to structure.

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Speaker 2: You can have your own embody.

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Speaker 5: You will probably correct me on this, and please do

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Speaker 5: you can have your own server?

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's true.

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Speaker 5: And then and what is the benefits of having your

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Speaker 5: own server?

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Speaker 2: You can only let even if you say that, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: what does that even mean? Most most people play with

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Speaker 2: the public.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so they log in and they're playing with the

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Speaker 4: seventy other million daily users. You can also create your

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Speaker 4: own like instance, your own server. And then if you

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Speaker 4: create your own server, let's say I created my own server,

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Speaker 4: and because I want to play with you know, Stephanie's niece.

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Speaker 2: Let's just say that, Okay, you would love my niece.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure I would.

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Speaker 4: I could create my own server and I could say

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Speaker 4: only these people can come into my server and play

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Speaker 4: with me.

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Speaker 2: God, so like basically parental control of some kind. You

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Speaker 2: can there's some kind of like a grouping, kind of

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Speaker 2: like your social like your Facebook used to be, right,

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Speaker 2: only my friends and people that I elect can be

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Speaker 2: in this you know, exciting conversation or on Facebook, they

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Speaker 2: only my people can see photographs. And a lot of

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Speaker 2: people do that.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people, do you know, they say, well,

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Speaker 4: my kids only play on the server, and I'm kind

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Speaker 4: of like always saying to myself, no.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, you know what I mean. Another and they probably

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Speaker 6: don't want to only play with those like probably the

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Speaker 6: fun of the game is to play with other people

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Speaker 6: and different levels. Like now I can be Stephanie Sneeze

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Speaker 6: all the time. I want someone who's a little better

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Speaker 6: or something like.

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Speaker 4: But I'm just guessing, yeah, there's I mean, the fun

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Speaker 4: in the game is playing with a bunch of other people, right,

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Speaker 4: And so when you do the only my.

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Speaker 2: Server type situation, it's not as fun.

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Speaker 4: You know. I play a lot of Minecraft, and it's

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Speaker 4: kind of the similar situation. My friends and I get together,

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Speaker 4: we play Minecraft, and it's I love Minecraft, but.

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Speaker 2: It's not as.

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Speaker 4: Fun when you're playing on a public server with a

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Speaker 4: bunch of other different people with you know, and when

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Speaker 4: you're playing on a private server, you don't have all

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Speaker 4: the tools that you would on a public server.

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Speaker 2: Got it, I'm getting off I'm getting off track a

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Speaker 2: little fun. I really have missed all things gaming. I

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Speaker 2: just kind of missed it. I love gaming, and I

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Speaker 2: could appreciate it. I'm like, I just, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 2: didn't get sucked into that rabbit hole. Yeah, I got

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Speaker 2: sucked in too many other rest assured. This is not

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Speaker 2: I'm not standing on anything great here, but yeah, how

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Speaker 2: do you navigate? How do you navigate? Listen? This is

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Speaker 2: true crime tonight. We are on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 5: I'm Courtney here as always with Buddy Moven and Stephanie Leidecker.

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Speaker 5: We're talking right now about the Florida AG's criminal complaint

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Speaker 5: against Roadblocks, as well as other lawsuits. We'd love to

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Speaker 5: hear from you. Yeah, you know, any parents, anyone who

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Speaker 5: knows adults or children that would be everyone, Yeah, what

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Speaker 5: do you think?

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Speaker 2: What do you do?

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Speaker 5: How do you navigate this eighted eight three to one

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Speaker 5: crime body?

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Speaker 2: What else do we need to know about these developments?

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Speaker 4: Roadblocks chief safety officer Matt Kaufman has reported that the

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Speaker 4: company self reported twenty three thousand potential child exploitation cases

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Speaker 4: to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty five alone. And we're not even done with

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty twenty five yet, I'm going to repeat that

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Speaker 4: they self reported twenty three thousand potential child exploitation cases

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Speaker 4: that happened on their platform. So they are claiming that

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Speaker 4: they are actively and proactively monitoring and responding despite those measures,

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Speaker 4: though critics and plaintiffs because again they're being sued despite

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Speaker 4: those measures. Critics and plaintiffs maintain that Roadblocks has prioritized

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Speaker 4: growth and profit over child safety, arguing that its business

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Speaker 4: model and inadequate moderation continue to expose children to predatory risks.

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Speaker 2: In that social media I think on its as a whole, right,

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Speaker 2: I agree that just the thing at this point, like

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Speaker 2: maybe it's started as a good idea to keep us connected,

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Speaker 2: and you know, well listen, I'm not saying anything unusually new.

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Speaker 2: How disconnected? Does you know? This make us very now?

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Speaker 2: It's taking it to a criminal.

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Speaker 4: Criminal, it's a criminal plaint and that these some of this,

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Speaker 4: like the Louisiana and Kentucky lawsuits, they argue that Rollblocks's

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Speaker 4: age verification and the parent the built in like parental

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Speaker 4: controls are insufficient and misleadingly marketed as protective, allowing adults

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Speaker 4: easily pose its miners and access children's spaces, which is true.

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Speaker 4: You know, we talked about, you know, in Rollblocks, it's

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Speaker 4: kind of like a platform.

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Speaker 2: It's like a game within a game.

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Speaker 4: You can build like different experiences, and they build experiences

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Speaker 4: that maybe would be appealing to children, but they're built

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Speaker 4: by predators so that they attract the children to come in,

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Speaker 4: and they once they get in those experiences, they get

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Speaker 4: in and it's like, you know, they've got these skins

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Speaker 4: which you can just with with these roadblocks books that

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Speaker 4: make them appear nude, and they start, you know, jiggling,

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Speaker 4: and that you know, it's just it's not a good place.

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Speaker 2: It's just not a good place to be. I just

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Speaker 2: wouldn't he's saying, it's nay on the o blox Ray

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Speaker 2: this is may try and talk and pig Latin does

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Speaker 2: not really it didn't really go as as it used

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Speaker 2: to in seventh grade, but so kind of that's a

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Speaker 2: hard no. Well for me, But again, I don't have kids,

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Speaker 2: it's so easy for me to say. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: know that's still I think everybody listening wants to try

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Speaker 2: to put their best foot forward. Knowing what we know now.

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Speaker 2: Even if this was a decision made two weeks ago,

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Speaker 2: it does seem as though there's new information. Well, what

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Speaker 2: do you do.

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Speaker 4: You've got maybe a kid in third grade, Let's say,

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Speaker 4: you know, Billy comes home and he's like, you know,

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Speaker 4: Jimmy and Sean want me to play roadblocks with them.

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Speaker 4: What do you do as a parent at this at

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Speaker 4: this juncture, right, what do you do? Do you say

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Speaker 4: no and ostracize him socially for like, you know, this

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Speaker 4: could potentially affect the rest of his social life, right?

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Speaker 2: But also maybe billion Oscar's mom's or dads may also

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Speaker 2: be like happy to hear this information as well and

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Speaker 2: to collectively Again, this sounds like a very simple answer.

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Speaker 2: I know it's not. But maybe like as parents who

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Speaker 2: kind of get on board with a different game. Is

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Speaker 2: that a thing? I don't even know what the different

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Speaker 2: game would be. I wish I did. But Roadblocks appears

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Speaker 2: to be like Candyland in our day, right, like it was.

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Speaker 2: It's like shiny, and it seems young, and it seems

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Speaker 2: really harmless. And I guess that's what's so heartbreaking about

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Speaker 2: this case. And thank god Florida's you know, attorney general

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Speaker 2: is putting a stop to it.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 4: One of the key cases involves a thirteen year old

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Speaker 4: boy in Kentucky and he allegedly befriended this predator on

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Speaker 4: the This this experience called the pet simulator, by a

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Speaker 4: thirty year old predator posing as a teen. The offender

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Speaker 4: offered him rollbox gift cards in exchange for sexually explicit photos,

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Speaker 4: and later threatened the little boy with exposure. I mean,

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Speaker 4: this is what's happening, you know, Like if you don't

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Speaker 4: give me more, I'm going to tell your parents.

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Speaker 2: And here here's the pictures I have of you.

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Speaker 5: That's right, and it's an escalation and the kids are

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Speaker 5: ashamed and.

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Speaker 4: Sure, and I mean these kids, these Roadblocks bought these dollars,

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Speaker 4: these that they want our priceless to kids and it's

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Speaker 4: hard to say no to them, So please be careful

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Speaker 4: out there, guys, Please.

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Speaker 2: Be careful when we come back.

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Speaker 5: A suspect has now been charged in the death of

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Speaker 5: twenty three year old Kata Scott. The medical examiner has

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Speaker 5: just revealed exactly how she died. Later, we are joined

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Speaker 5: by Alan Water. He's going to talk about the donut

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Speaker 5: shop murders his wonderful podcast. We've got that and a

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Speaker 5: whole lot more true crime tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I'm

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Speaker 2: here with Courtney Armstrong and body move in and listen.

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Speaker 2: We want to hear from you. We want to hear

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Speaker 2: from you live or a talkback. You just have to.

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Speaker 2: We want to hear your voice. We love the dms,

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Speaker 2: but we actually really love the interaction of hearing you specifically,

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Speaker 2: So please keep them coming. Eight eight eight three one crime. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: we eat it up, can't get enough of it, So

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Speaker 2: the more of you, the better. There's so much to

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Speaker 2: discuss tonight. So how about this PhD student who has

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Speaker 2: now been arrested in charge with serially serially drugging and

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Speaker 2: sexually abusing women. I mean again a PhD student who

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Speaker 2: does that remind us of? And also later in the show,

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Speaker 2: a member of the KT family Alan readers here to

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Speaker 2: discuss his podcast The Nutshop and you know more on

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Speaker 2: Katas Scott and the new developments there are are nothing

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Speaker 2: short of tragic and heroing. But first let's go to

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Speaker 2: a talk.

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Speaker 8: Hey y'all, It's Jennifer from Texas. Love you all so

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Speaker 8: so much. I have a question about your weighted vest.

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Speaker 8: I'm ready to do it, but I've never done it,

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Speaker 8: and I don't know where to start. What is your

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Speaker 8: favorite brand? What weight should I start at? I'm ready

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Speaker 8: to jump on board. All are amazing, Love you all,

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Speaker 8: Antaha and Sam Adams as well.

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Speaker 2: Oh bye, so sweet. That is the nicest talk back ever.

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Speaker 2: By the way, didn't we need this palette cleanse? Like

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Speaker 2: a little light? After such dark chat? I can jump

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Speaker 2: in about the weighted vest. By the way, it is

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Speaker 2: important to note that we are not Jim experts. By

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Speaker 2: the way, I'm going to speak for myself because you

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Speaker 2: guys actually might be in Courtney. You're in train, so

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Speaker 2: I am not a gym expert. So take this in

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Speaker 2: the spirit it is intended, which is simply what I do,

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Speaker 2: because I probably heard it somewhere. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: I went to a pilates instructor. And I have a

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Speaker 2: dear friend, Courtney, a different Courtney that you actually probably

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Speaker 2: have met, court that has the sickest back I've ever

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Speaker 2: seen in shoulders, and she subscribes to the weighted vest,

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Speaker 2: So go very low. This is my two cents. I'm

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Speaker 2: actually it's shocking that I'm prescribing right now. But Amazon

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Speaker 2: or we're you know, Walmart, Target anywhere. It is not expensive,

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Speaker 2: like under twenty Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I started at ten pounds and my weighted vest from

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Speaker 4: Amazon was twenty three dollars I think. And the biggest

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Speaker 4: thing I did not want was the ones that cover

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Speaker 4: your test because I feel really like freaked out when

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Speaker 4: things are like really tight on me, you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean, Like I get like I get wigged out

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Speaker 4: a little bit, I get little claustrophobic. So I got

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Speaker 4: the kind that has two buckles in the front too,

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm wondering.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 4: Mine looks just like yours exactly, and then a little

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Speaker 4: snap in the middle snap.

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Speaker 2: And the boot and like your back is kind of

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Speaker 2: and go low in the way the lowest that they offer.

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Speaker 2: If you're new to this, I don't know what everybody's like.

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Speaker 2: You know, athleticism is I'm doing. I'm doing now twelve

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Speaker 2: twelve pounds. However, I only wear it for two segments.

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Speaker 2: So now you've been working up like a half an

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Speaker 2: hour then right, right, so about thirty minutes, I guess,

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Speaker 2: and I do sometimes take it off during commercial So

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Speaker 2: if we're getting on the same exercise plan, my two

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Speaker 2: cents recommendation would be just like a couple of minutes, right,

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Speaker 2: or do it during commercial break at first, or you know,

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Speaker 2: and walk around the room, or if you're just sitting,

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Speaker 2: you kind of place it on your shoulder blades and

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Speaker 2: just do it for like one segment or half a second.

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Speaker 2: This is slow, slow and steady. Our long term goal

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Speaker 2: is summer, some a baby. We're gonna have the sickest

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Speaker 2: shoulders and backs and arms. Apparently it's like a full

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Speaker 2: body little extra something. But you don't have to be

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Speaker 2: walking or anything. You could, but I'm sitting right now.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I stand, But you do want to just like

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Speaker 2: not overdo it. Body, You overdid it first of all,

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Speaker 2: knowing Courtney's wearing like ninety pounds probably front and back

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Speaker 2: to one hundred and eighty pounds on her right now,

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Speaker 2: I'm wearing twelve. Stephanie can talk about this for an hour?

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Speaker 9: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Wait, should we continue? What else can we talk about?

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Speaker 2: Regarding the weighted best it's my favorite topic. She loves

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Speaker 2: slow and steady. Yeah, I wore mine the whole show,

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Speaker 2: and it was a big mistake. Do not do what

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Speaker 2: I did. And it was the first time. Man, I

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Speaker 2: haven't worn it since. Yeah, no, no, you had to

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Speaker 2: put it on. You're only going to put it on.

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Speaker 2: You're going to put it on reminutes. That's it, maybe

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Speaker 2: four minutes. Like this is when no one's in a

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Speaker 2: hero's challenge. Here, we're slow and steady kids, slow and steady.

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Speaker 4: I never think Salon City. That's my big problem.

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Speaker 2: Actually, it's one of the things I love most about.

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Speaker 2: You don't go change in all right, let's go back,

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Speaker 2: or let's actually go to skip the talk back. Actually

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Speaker 2: we're going to switch gears. But this is a kind

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Speaker 2: of a hard switch. It is so you know, Courtney

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Speaker 2: from waited vest to a difficult topic.

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Speaker 5: Yes, we are taking a hard right turn, which I

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Speaker 5: feel like I'm often taking those hard right turns. But

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Speaker 5: there is an update. Philadelphia prosecutors have charged Kean King,

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Speaker 5: the twenty one year old, of murder and connection with

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Speaker 5: the death of twenty three year old Kata Scott, and

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Speaker 5: just today the cause of death was revealed to be

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Speaker 5: a gunshot wound to the head.

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Speaker 2: We've spoken about this case before.

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Speaker 5: Kata Scott was reported missing back in early October.

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Speaker 2: It was October fifth.

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Speaker 5: It was one day after she'd been seen outside of

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Speaker 5: her workplace in Philadelphia. Apparently she was upset and leaving

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Speaker 5: in a dark colored s t V that later came

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Speaker 5: to be found out was tied to the suspect King.

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Speaker 5: And she was just a gorgeous, a literal beauty queen,

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Speaker 5: literal beauty.

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Speaker 2: Click you brought away beautiful nothing that is even anything

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Speaker 2: but now has reported beautiful inside and out right and again.

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Speaker 5: So the charge is now formally murder and Kean King

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Speaker 5: faces a lengthy list of charges kidnapping, arson, robbery, conspiracy,

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Speaker 5: abuse of a corpse, as well as tampering with evidence.

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Speaker 4: I want to know who he's working with. I mean,

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Speaker 4: this is the defense attorney, No, the suspect, the suspect,

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Speaker 4: So we learned through the court, the court records and whatnot,

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Speaker 4: there's two people seeing caring something that looked like a

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Speaker 4: body out of the car into this shallow grave. And

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Speaker 4: then we learned that a very specific anonymous tip came in.

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Speaker 2: Telling them where to find her, which was this other person?

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Speaker 2: To identify who was this other person? Right, I mean,

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Speaker 2: that has to be somebody else. How do they not

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Speaker 2: track those calls, those types of tips that are so specific,

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Speaker 2: because you want those calls to be coming, right, even

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Speaker 2: if it's within the circle of you know, dirty trust, Right,

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Speaker 2: even if it was somebody who was a part of

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Speaker 2: the crime. You want those tips to come in. But

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Speaker 2: you would think they would be able to track that

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Speaker 2: because that was so specific. It was. That's what the

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Speaker 2: articles I read said that said a very.

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Speaker 4: Specific anonymous tip came in telling the authorities on where

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Speaker 4: to find her.

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Speaker 2: And then they.

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Speaker 4: Affidavit says that two people were seeing unloading something from

435
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 4: this black car that it was associated with King as

436
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 4: you stated, Courtney, and leading it to a shallow grape.

437
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 4: Two people, who's this other person? And where is he?

438
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 4: Are they looking? I mean, I'm sure they're looking into it.

439
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 5: But I'm gonna bet and also that's that's hard to

440
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 5: keep a secret between Yeah, two people.

441
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: Well, and he confessed, right, so I'm assuming he's in

442
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: there spilling his guts. You know about this other person,

443
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: I would imagine this clown is twenty one years old,

444
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: I know, like what in the and Kata Scott such

445
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: a big life ahead. You know, we can't talk about

446
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: her brighter light than she was. I mean even the

447
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: work she was doing was so devoted and altruistic, not

448
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: the kind of thing you can pull off. So yeah,

449
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 2: she like knows this person he's twenty one years old.

450
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 2: This life is also over. How is it possible that

451
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 2: that is your best choice to not only take the

452
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 2: life of somebody as wonderful as Kata Scott and then

453
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 2: also do what he did to her and just toss

454
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: her away like it's unbelievable. Oh, it's deplorable. Absolutely.

455
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 5: Something else body you had mentioned the affidavit of probable cause.

456
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 5: Something else that came out was that on October fourth,

457
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 5: so the day before she went missing. This was a

458
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 5: ten seven pm. She allegedly texted King quote kidnap me again,

459
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 5: to which King replied, better be up, better be up

460
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 5: to and it was followed up by plans to meet

461
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 5: later that night.

462
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: So obviously they had like a loose, texty relationship. And

463
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 2: I guess that's even more scary, Like can you imagine

464
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 2: just you know, talking a little bit in slang and

465
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 2: maybe it's a little flirty and like this is what

466
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 2: that comes to and body if you're correct, if there

467
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 2: was a second person involved, is that do you think

468
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 2: in your gut? You know, again, we're just theorizing that

469
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: there was perhaps a second person also involved in the

470
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 2: crime itself, not just the disposal of the body. I mean,

471
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: she gets into an suv and maybe there are two

472
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: people there. She thinks she's just gonna be like she's

473
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: being cute or like, you know, she's talking a little

474
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 2: bit like oh yeah, come kidnap me, Like oh again,

475
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 2: we don't know.

476
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 4: He had this black Hyundai accent, right, and it was

477
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 4: later found burned like he something happened in that car,

478
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 4: I think, and he was trying to get rid of

479
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 4: the evidence.

480
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: I'm guessing, right.

481
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 4: And the coworker that last saw her outside the workplace

482
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 4: around ten o'clock, so it was around the same time

483
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 4: with this text exchange, right party correct, she appeared upset

484
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 4: and she was speaking on the phone and she said,

485
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 4: I can't believe you're calling me about this blank, And

486
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 4: there's like a swear word, so it's probably like, you know,

487
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 4: I can't believe you're calling me about this, right, So,

488
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 4: and then she walks towards this dark colored suv that

489
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 4: was parked outside her workplace. And so there's this suv

490
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 4: and then there's this Hyundai accent. So I do think

491
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 4: that the possible other suspect in this case was involved

492
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 4: and maybe even possibly owns this suv.

493
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 5: I don't know, though I mean this, I'm sure these

494
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 5: details will be coming out, and obviously we will keep

495
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 5: everyone updated as information on folds for sure.

496
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 4: This is to your Crimton and iHeartRadio. I'm Body Movement

497
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 4: and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker. We've

498
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 4: been talking about the tragic circumstances surrounding kaya Scott's death

499
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 4: and we want to hear from you.

500
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: What do you think?

501
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 4: Give us a call eight to eight thirty one crime

502
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 4: or hit us on the talkbacks in the iHeart Radio.

503
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 4: So I have an update about Brian Walsh. It's really complicated, though.

504
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 2: It's like complicated when I've been there following this in

505
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: all day, tell me everything. I wait to talk to

506
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 2: you about this.

507
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 4: Well, I can't wait to talk to you guys about

508
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 4: this because you guys were really invested in Karen Reid

509
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 4: and know the players lot more than I do, because

510
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 4: I didn't really follow that case all that, you know,

511
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 4: until this started, right and I got and then I

512
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 4: got interested in but then it was too late because

513
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 4: it was over. But Michael Proctor is heavily involved in

514
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 4: this update, So I kind of want to set the

515
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 4: stage a.

516
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: Little bit, if that's way Britney and I are all

517
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: we areoth like we are leaning in and huddering up. Okay,

518
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: so here's the key players.

519
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 4: Okay, Michael Proctor, now Michael Proctor, he's the former lead

520
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 4: investigator with the Massachusettate Police.

521
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 2: Okay, there's Karen Reid.

522
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 4: She is the defendant in the death of her boyfriend,

523
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 4: Boston police officer John O'Keefe in Canton, Massachusetts, in January

524
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty two.

525
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: She was just recently acquitted.

526
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 4: Okay, Brian Walsh, he is the defendant accused of murdering

527
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 4: his wife in dismembering her. Remember this case, this case

528
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 4: is ongoing. Her body has not been recovered. Okay, So

529
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 4: these cases, these three or these two cases overlap because

530
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 4: of Michael Proctor, Okay.

531
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: Who, by the way, was tossed. He was a disaster

532
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: mess in the Karen Reid case.

533
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 4: Right, his text messages in the Karen Reid case. Okay,

534
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 4: while he was investigating John O'Keefe's death, in which Karen

535
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 4: Reid was a suspect. Right, he exchanged private group text

536
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 4: in which he disparaged Karen Reid, calling her things like

537
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 4: a whack job and even speculating about.

538
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 2: Like her death. Right. These texts were admitted as evidence

539
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,959
Speaker 2: into Karen Reid's murder trial. As a result, Michael Proctor

540
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: was suspended and eventually fired in this year March of

541
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: this year, after a Massachusetts State Police trial board found

542
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: that he engaged in quote unquote unsatisfactory performance, right, sending

543
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 2: these derogatory texts and sharing sensitive investigate information. His appeal

544
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: to regain his job has been withdrawn. So he's not

545
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 2: going back to work. Okay, that's that.

546
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 5: That was a crazy appeal. That was a hail Mary. Ever,

547
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 5: the temerity to even show your face.

548
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 2: The merity you have to actually spell that out and

549
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 2: tell us what that means. Courtney, I'm strong temarity. Oh

550
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: my goodness, I feel like I know what that means.

551
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: It's based on your tone.

552
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 5: Well, that tone is my mother's because she would say

553
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 5: it to me. It's like just being really like overbold.

554
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, but why would he be no, Michael Proctor, it

555
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 2: seems perfectly in line for him to have the temerity

556
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: to ask for his job back after he messed up

557
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: entirely and tried to frame allegedly Karen Reid. Not allegedly

558
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 2: he got tossed, he lost his job. The fact that

559
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 2: he was going to go back and thought he should

560
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 2: have it back, he may have, because it seems like

561
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: there is a boiled system within that specific district, which

562
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 2: is the Canton Police Department. Only that little pocket, But

563
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: what a stain and what a nerve in all the

564
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: cases that he's touched are now spoilt. It's like the

565
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: fruit of the poisonous tree.

566
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 7: Yeah.

567
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: Right, this is going to have to go into the

568
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: next segment. Listen, this Brian Walsh case has gotten us

569
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 2: all crazed and there's so much to unpack because Michael Proctor,

570
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: you guys may remember from the Karen Reid trial. He

571
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: was the lead investigator and he was ultimately discharged for

572
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: you know, inappropriate actions involving this investigation. And now he's

573
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: tied up in the investigation with Brian Walsh. And guess

574
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 2: what that means. Right, We're going to to look at

575
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 2: all the evidence again and if you're not familiar with

576
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,719
Speaker 2: Brian Walsh, bodies filling us in so incredibly, you know,

577
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: he's accused of murdering and dismembering his wife Anna, and

578
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 2: what a mess. Yeah, so this has like far reaching implications.

579
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 4: So again, while Procter was investigating in O'Keefe's death, he

580
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 4: exchanged these private messages. He was inappropriate, he got fired,

581
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 4: he appealed it. It's been withdrawn in the last I

582
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 4: think two days. It got withdrawn forty eight hours ago.

583
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: This is not looking great and sound likely that I'm

584
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: going to get my job back, mostly because I was

585
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: not doing it very well or ethically. Right.

586
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 4: So, now Brian Walsh's attorneys, his defense is seeking records

587
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 4: tied to Michael Proctor and the Read case and all

588
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 4: the other investigations, arguing he has bias and he has

589
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 4: miscondent problems, and it might take the investigation into Brian Walsh.

590
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 4: So the prosecutors are acknowledging that materials from this there

591
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 4: was we remember there was this federal investigation into Michael Procter, right, yes,

592
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 4: and so the prosecutors are acknowledging that materials from the

593
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 4: federal investigation into Proctor are going to be handed over

594
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 4: to Brian Walsh's defense. Wow, this federal investigation that went

595
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 4: into Michael Procter, all the materials are being handed over

596
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 4: to Brian Walsh.

597
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 2: And just to add context to that, that just shows

598
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: how important law enforcement is and how they have to

599
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: be so careful. Right, We're seeing this in so many cases.

600
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 2: We're asking every day the pop star David, why don't

601
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 2: we have a manner of death? Why don't we have

602
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: a suspect? They can't jump to judgment because of reasons

603
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 2: like this. Michael Procter went down in a flame because

604
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: he was acting or allegedly acting not particularly ethically in

605
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: that case. So yeah, that brings into judgment all the

606
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: other cases he touched, including the guy that's being accused

607
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 2: of murdering and Choma's wife, Yeah, dismembering his life.

608
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 4: So this tie in of this federal investigation, materials suggesting

609
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 4: additional over cit and potential disclosure obligations. And this is

610
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 4: going to potentially impact the timeline of the Brian Walsh case,

611
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 4: which is, you know, it's fast approaching. He's currently being

612
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 4: kind of like evaluated for competency to stand trial because

613
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 4: he kind of got I think he got stabbed, is

614
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 4: what it is. He got stabbed while he's in jail,

615
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 4: and after the stabbing, he kind of like he kind

616
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 4: of went crazy a little bit. So he has been

617
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 4: sent to you know, this evaluation center and he's been

618
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 4: there for a while. I think his next hearing is

619
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 4: on the seventeenth of November.

620
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: And that's a delay too, right, so they basically pushed

621
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 2: that next hearing because he was in fact stabbed behind bars,

622
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 2: and yeah, his mental capacity is being brought into question, right.

623
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 4: So we're gonna have to wait and see, you know,

624
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 4: what happens. And we're definitely going to be keeping this,

625
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 4: you know, we're keeping an.

626
00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:58,959
Speaker 2: Eye on this one time.

627
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 4: It's infuriating, Like the things that Brian Walsher are accused

628
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 4: of are like really horrific and you know, and involves

629
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 4: his children and you know, dismembering his beautiful wife who

630
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 4: was trying to get out of there. You know, he

631
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 4: also was convicted of being an art thief, and like

632
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 4: he's just not a good guy. So the idea that

633
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 4: you know, what he did in Karen Reid's trial could

634
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 4: trickle down to other cases where there was you know,

635
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 4: a horrific acts done is just so upsetting to me.

636
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: But it does need to happen. Yeah, and you know

637
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 2: ripple effects. I feel like he's.

638
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 5: Been a theme of the week in many iterations, in

639
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 5: many different cases, and this is one of them. With

640
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 5: Michael Proctor of everything is now every defense attorney is right,

641
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 5: a little happier today.

642
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 4: I just double checked because I wanted to make sure

643
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 4: I was saying the right thing. He has a competency

644
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 4: hearing on October twenty seventh, following you know, he, like

645
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 4: I said, he got stabbed on the eleventh of September,

646
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 4: and his new trial is now scheduled for no earlier

647
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 4: than November seventeenth. That means it could happen in December

648
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 4: or something. Right, and this is of course.

649
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 2: Outcome by the way, like November December thing is always

650
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: a slog holidays, et cetera. But again for Anna, his

651
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: you know, beautiful wife and anyone who knows her and

652
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 2: loves her. This is talk about a ripple effect, right,

653
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: So here they are going into yet another holiday season

654
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 2: missing her without answers in this guy's calling it technicality.

655
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: And Michael Proctor, who honestly this little grew from the

656
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 2: Karen Reid case. I'm watching that pretty closely because that's

657
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 2: also a ripple effect. You know, maybe they had it

658
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: out for Karen Reid because they were buds with John O'Keefe,

659
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: who knows it was all very insider. But yeah, if

660
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: you're the defense attorney of some of these other heinous

661
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: criminals alleged, allegedly allegedly, yeah, this guy could walk as

662
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: a result, and that is so unsettling. Up, I'm gonna

663
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: lose sleep over this.

664
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 4: I know. And you know what else too, The data

665
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 4: from Michael Proctor's phone, it was unexpectedly massive, massive, right,

666
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 4: I read that. And so this data it's going to

667
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 4: include hundreds and thousands of texts and files dating back

668
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 4: all the way to twenty thirteen. And because it's considered discovery,

669
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 4: the defense lawyers for Brian Walsh are going to need

670
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 4: time to go through it because they're gonna call him

671
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 4: as a witness, and they're gonna want to cross or

672
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 4: you know, they're not gonna want to cross, They're gonna

673
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 4: want to interrogate him on the stand and they're so

674
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 4: they need to be armed with the information of what

675
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 4: he was texting and if there's anything in there that

676
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 4: you know, is exculpatory to Brian Walsh, We're gonna have problems.

677
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 4: We're gonna have massive problems. Yeah, and I'm really upset

678
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 4: by it. That's the story. That's the update.

679
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: That's the update. Well, exculpatory, that's another ten dollars word.

680
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 2: We go back the vests, we talk about face masks.

681
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 5: I just want to talk about exculpatory evidence because not

682
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 5: everyone knows what that is, and basically that's evidence.

683
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 2: That could free you. Yeah.

684
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 5: So if I'm accused of a crime and then I

685
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 5: have a video of me going into CVS at that

686
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 5: exact time, that would be exculpatory evidence.

687
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 4: Correct, And then if if the this is another one. Okay,

688
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 4: so let's say that happened, right, You're accused of a

689
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 4: crime and you're you know this, this crime happened at

690
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 4: eight one pm and there's a video of you buying

691
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 4: a Snickers Bar at CBS at eight oh one pm,

692
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 4: and you're watching. I'm watching the DA host this video, right,

693
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 4: they have it and they don't turn it over to

694
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 4: the defense. That's a Brady violation because they withheld exculpatory information.

695
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 4: So there's another tendeller. Look at all these any.

696
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 2: Way, So let me make sure that every that I'm

697
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: hearing that as clearly, so I understand scope we're going

698
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: to have by everything we're gonna do, like Courtney's like

699
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 2: word of the week, some fancy word like meglomaniac. See,

700
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: I can say it, but we're all gonna learn like

701
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: a super smart I already forgot the one we just learned.

702
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: What was it again? It's is what it is? I

703
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: can't wait. It makes me hungry when I hear you

704
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: say that to Merity, like it sounds like we should.

705
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's like a seasoning. I want some amoran. Yeah,

706
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: with a glazed a little something on it. That's sound

707
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 2: so good.

708
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's my job to rope us back in. Yes, okay,

709
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 5: all right, time and place. This is true crime tonight.

710
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 5: We are on iHeartRadio. Courtney Body is the ring master

711
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 5: this evening Stephanie is marching in place in her vest.

712
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 2: So that's what it's doing.

713
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 5: It on because I've had it on for two longs

714
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 5: and I am going to update you on what's going

715
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 5: on with the thirty year old USC doctoral student. So

716
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 5: it's a man named C. Jung Wang. He also goes

717
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 5: by Stephen. So Stephen Wang has been charged with multiple

718
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 5: counts of drug facilitated sexual assault and this spans four

719
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 5: years from twenty twenty one. He's being held without bail.

720
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 5: Authorities are very actively seeking out other potential victims. There

721
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 5: is a hotline, so it's very scary stuff. Wang allegedly

722
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 5: targeted women in Los Angeles, where the University of Southern

723
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 5: California is. He incapacitated them with drugs that he put

724
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 5: in food or drinks, and then is alleged to have

725
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 5: sexually assaulted them. This investigation began after German authorities alerted

726
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 5: APD and evidence was recovered at Wang's residence that corroborated

727
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 5: the involvement of the multiple drug facilitated sexual assaults. I

728
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 5: don't I'm so curious what.

729
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 2: The German about this? What a German like? How did ye?

730
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 2: I think one of the victims and not that I'm Courtney.

731
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one of

732
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 2: the victims was German. And remember USC is an extraordinary school.

733
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 2: Also Courtney and her husband's armor mater. So only the

734
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: smartest of great come there. But think about that. You

735
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 2: Nobody should ever ever drink anything anymore that is not

736
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: opened in a can by you. That is the one

737
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 2: thing that I have learned on this show. If you

738
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 2: go to a bar, if you go to a party,

739
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 2: and again like this is for like I think college, right,

740
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: you don't get those red solo cups anymore. No one's

741
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: doing shots at the bar. You need to crack it

742
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 2: by yourself, that can, because it is so easy to

743
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: slip something in. And you know, a PhD student, this

744
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 2: is having Brian Coburger undertones. You know, we know that

745
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 2: Brian Coberger was watching carnography about drugged.

746
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 4: It was so weird that you just said that because

747
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 4: I was just thinking of the red solo cups in

748
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 4: the red exactly and that's all we saw in those photographs.

749
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: And again like we're not you know, not to jump around. No, yeah,

750
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 2: it's so serious, and I think it's a tragedy of

751
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 2: this generation. Like nobody can drink anything that served them. Well,

752
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 2: I mean, it did happen in our generation. I was

753
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 2: gonna say, yeah.

754
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, it it definitely did happen in our generation. I

755
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 4: just don't know that we knew about it then.

756
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 2: Like that's fair. I can tell you fair. Well I can't,

757
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:54,439
Speaker 2: but yeah, that's so fair.

758
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:55,959
Speaker 6: It's so fair.

759
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: But the slicker in my head that just happened. You know,

760
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 2: we discussed that, yeah, I mean one hundred percent, but

761
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 2: knowing what we know now.

762
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 4: Knowing what we know now, and I have you guys

763
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 4: seen those the covers that go over like cups at

764
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 4: the bar you can buy. They're like kind of like

765
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 4: little cozies and they fit. They're elastic, and they're they

766
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 4: have a little hole for the straw if you you know,

767
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,919
Speaker 4: there's a straw situation, and you they just.

768
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: Fit over any cup, any cup.

769
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 4: Because they can drink and yeah, smart, But I always

770
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 4: worry they're going to stick them down the straw.

771
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: Something down the straw.

772
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:35,439
Speaker 7: Though.

773
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 2: That's fair. If only it was like a saran wrapped

774
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 2: seal almost frozen and then you put the straw straight

775
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: through it. Oh that would walking around. But like, I

776
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: don't know, there's got to be an answer to this,

777
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 2: because that is the story of the moment. You've seen

778
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 2: the nail polish. That's exactly what I was about.

779
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 5: To say, there's nail polish. My understanding is that it's

780
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 5: had some inconsistant results. So I'm I just want to

781
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 5: should you look into getting this product? Just look into

782
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 5: it as all I'm saying. The idea is fabulous. It

783
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 5: is undercover colors, it's nail polished, and it is designed

784
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 5: to detect date rape drugs.

785
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 6: Your finger in and if you get your finger in, brilliant.

786
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 4: This is like a billion dollar idea for somebody, Like

787
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 4: if you guys can come up with something that's kind

788
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 4: of like foolproof, billion billion dollars because bars, bars would

789
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 4: buy it, right, Bars.

790
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 2: Would have time to be a bar serving drinks because

791
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: they should be putting them with apps.

792
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 4: And even when people in college like go to you know,

793
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 4: parties off campus or whatever, they would buy these products.

794
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 6: I think like a billion dollar The cover one is

795
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 6: a great idea too. But I'm going to say there's

796
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 6: a bar in my area where I'm not going to

797
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 6: say the name, but even the bar staff was involved

798
00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 6: with spiking the drinks. So trust the bar now, So

799
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 6: it's a tricky.

800
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:03,240
Speaker 2: It's a very tricky.

801
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 5: I mean really, don't put it down every Yeah, yeah,

802
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 5: you can put your.

803
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 4: Drink down and then you and then you loosen up

804
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 4: because your bus a little bit absolutely like yeah, next thing,

805
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 4: you know, you're you're roofys in college.

806
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 2: Let's be very clear.

807
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 5: And then I would have drank anything from anyone at

808
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 5: any time.

809
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, especially if someone what it did?

810
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: You know you drank from buckets? Like right, yeah, right, you.

811
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 4: Would skip, you would, you would scoop your coat, you

812
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 4: like me, like we do your funnels.

813
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, funnels. That was a disease, is like the beer

814
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 2: began just thinking about all the beer bongs. But yeah,

815
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 2: in my the nail idea, that's brilliant nails. I do too.

816
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: But I'm so like particular about my nails. I know,

817
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, buddy, this is the geography. Look

818
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: at my nails right now, you see, I know it's

819
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: definitely it's own special little I need to come see.

820
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 9: I'm trying.

821
00:45:58,280 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 2: You did them a day.

822
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 5: Ago, Betz crime scenes all at the tips of Stephanie

823
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 5: Ladecker's fingers.

824
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 2: Well listen, yeah, go ahead.

825
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 5: So I was just gonna say we will, we will,

826
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 5: we will keep you updated on this situation. And I

827
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 5: also did want to say it is important that Wang

828
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 5: was arrested but has pleaded not guilty to the eight

829
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 5: felony counts got are charged against him.

830
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 2: That's right, We'll keep coming. We have Allan Waiter coming

831
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: up too, because of the Donuts Shot Murderers, which is

832
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 2: an extraordinary podcast. Listen. We don't make this podcast, Wondery

833
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 2: makes it, but it's so good and we're so happy

834
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 2: to have him here. And we also want to hear

835
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 2: from you, So give us a talk back or call

836
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 2: us eight at eight three one crime, stay with us

837
00:46:48,600 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 2: True Crime tonight. So listen. We have Alan Weader here

838
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 2: who was a beloved friend of ours and of KT.

839
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: He was also an extraordinary help in the piked In massacre.

840
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 2: But wait, if no one's listened to the piked In massacre,

841
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: we hope you do, and Alan, can you hear us?

842
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. Hi, Hi, miss you guys, I

843
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 2: miss you, save far too longmore. Yeah, listen, well except

844
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 2: for this exact second, because you've been out about solving

845
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: other crimes, doing other important fancy things. So for those

846
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 2: that don't know Alan worked and he was an incredible

847
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 2: asset on the piked in Massacre. He also worked with

848
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 2: Taha and I back in the day on Temptation Island

849
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: season two. Had listen how purposeful has it all become?

850
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 2: And I'm so grateful? Yeah, full circle, full circle.

851
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 7: So so Alan, that was the show that ruined my marriage.

852
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: Oh no, Alan really.

853
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 7: Being away for like six weeks at a time when

854
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 7: the marriage alreaty wasn't good fun with me.

855
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 2: Well, you got a book out of it.

856
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 5: So Allan is also an author and an artist and

857
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:13,919
Speaker 5: an artist actually you should share.

858
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: It's a Year of the coh.

859
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 7: The book is called Year of the Cockya. It was

860
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 7: like a psychosexual memoir of my divorce and it's very dark.

861
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 7: I think you can find a few copies on eBay.

862
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 7: Probably it did well, but it's been twenty I got

863
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 7: almost twenty years. Sin stuff came out. I mostly dropped

864
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 7: mostly these days, I mostly dropped pets. I don't know

865
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 7: if you've seen my recent pet work. I'm an illustrator.

866
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 2: You're an illustrator and also a producer. He also did

867
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 2: this extraordinary podcast wonderam makes It so you know Wondery

868
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: sort of the Golden Seal and as we are these

869
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 2: competitives great. We love those guys were inspired by their

870
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: work and the Doughnut Shop Murders is what Alan went

871
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 2: on to work on and really crushed it. It's a

872
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 2: fantastic podcast and really juicy'll be confusing, harrowing, weird pace. Right,

873
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 2: I don't even know where to begin. How would you?

874
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 2: I don't know writing about it.

875
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 4: I'm dying there.

876
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,439
Speaker 7: Well, for so much of the podcast, I was trying

877
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 7: to wrap my head around, like, so, it's about this

878
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 7: itinerant family. They came from Texas, and forget the town

879
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 7: that they came from, but they were petty criminals in

880
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 7: Texas and they were doing like they were passing bad

881
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 7: checks and doing small town robberies and they were just

882
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 7: kind of getting by grifting. And then there was a

883
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 7: lot of heat on them and they decided to as

884
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 7: a family hit the road. And at first it felt

885
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 7: like they were just going to relocate just to kind

886
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 7: of get out of the sort of escape the heat

887
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 7: in Texas. But what they ended up doing was going

888
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 7: on this twisted road trip that went from Utah to

889
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 7: Colorado to Kansas, Georgia, Florida, all the way back up

890
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 7: to Canada eventually the Pacific Northwest, and they killed so

891
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 7: it's called the Chuck Murders. This family working together. Not

892
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 7: everybody had a strong hand in the killings. It was

893
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 7: mostly the Sherman McCrary who was the patriarchal family, and

894
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 7: it was his son in law. They did most of

895
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 7: the killing, but Sherman's wife assisted in covering things up

896
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 7: and disposing of bodies and that kind of thing. And

897
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 7: then their daughter, Ginger was kind of a wacky character.

898
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 7: Not only was she complicit in the murders, but she

899
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 7: had a spending problem. So anytime they robbed the place

900
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 7: and killed someone like, she would spend all the money instantly,

901
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 7: and so they would have to go rob and kill again.

902
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 2: Now, but what was she spending this money on?

903
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 7: Can you so crazy? So crazy? So basically, they hadn't

904
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 7: killed anyone during their time in Texas. I wish I

905
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 7: could remember the name of the town they were named.

906
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 7: But they hadn't killed anyone. They were just passing to

907
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 7: had checks and stuff. When they got on the road.

908
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 7: Sherman and his son in law Carl Taylor. During mc

909
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 7: quarry and Carl Taylor, they got like a bug up

910
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 7: their ass to just like killed people, and so they started.

911
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 7: They went to a donut shop in Utah and there

912
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 7: was a single woman working there. And the reason why,

913
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 7: as you'll learn as the story goes on, like the

914
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 7: reason why donut shops were so ideal for finding people

915
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 7: and killing it was killing mostly young women sometimes men,

916
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 7: was because they were solo operations. Donut shops tended to

917
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 7: be very well lit, so you could drive by and see, oh,

918
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 7: other customers in there, and they tended to be manned

919
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 7: because like right, doughnut shops are mostly if you drive

920
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 7: by windshells or something, you can see it yourself, like

921
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 7: donuts are. Donut chops are designed around displaying the donuts

922
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 7: and creating hunger for those donuts. And so it became

923
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 7: kind of this ideal target because it tended to be

924
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 7: one person working there and it tended to be very

925
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 7: very visible from the street in terms of well lit,

926
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 7: in terms of what was there. They went to this

927
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 7: donut shop in Utah, and they are all originally thought

928
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 7: it was just going to be a robbery, but then sherman,

929
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 7: his father law, ended up taking the girl, kidnapping the

930
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 7: girl and throwing her in the car and then they

931
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 7: drove not too far away and they took all the

932
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 7: money that was there. And it wasn't a lot, it

933
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 7: was a donut shop. But they took this girl, this

934
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 7: woman who had this young girl who had been working

935
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 7: in the donut shop. They took her out into a

936
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 7: field and killed her. And it was really weird. It

937
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 7: was just really weird. There was no need for them

938
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,240
Speaker 7: to kill anybody. They could have just something napped in Sherman.

939
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 7: And he felt dissatisfied with bait, with petty crime, and

940
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 7: he wanted to be attain his person. He was. He

941
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 7: had an unbelievably horrible childhood and was abused, and it's

942
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 7: something snapped and it was no longer satisfying to just

943
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 7: steal and pass bad checks. He wanted to kind of

944
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 7: enter the annals of the serial killers that everybody was

945
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 7: hearing so much about.

946
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 2: Wow, almost an effort to be a little famous. Is

947
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 2: that was that? Sort of like that famous but to

948
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 2: feel willinous?

949
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 7: Yeahous, yeah, notorious. And Carl was kind of along for

950
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,479
Speaker 7: the ride. He sort of worshiped his father in law.

951
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 7: Then first they just killed some young women, which was horrible,

952
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 7: But then they started raping and killing but there was

953
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 7: no clear It was very haphazard. Their journey took about

954
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:12,879
Speaker 7: It was a little over twelve months across the whole

955
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 7: United States. They killed twenty people, and nobody ever really

956
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 7: knew about them. That's ultimately kind of this weird. I

957
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 7: wouldn't call it satisfact about the killings, but nobody knew

958
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 7: who they were when I was when I came on

959
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 7: to produce the show, I had a hard time fighting

960
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 7: anything online about this family, let alone anything juicy. Yeah,

961
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 7: when we did the podcast, the New Yorker picked it

962
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 7: up and they did a really wonderful piece on it.

963
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 7: But yeah, so the funny thing was, it was like

964
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 7: they didn't gain that notoriety. Nobody really knew who they were.

965
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 7: I mean, I guess in hindsight, I mean, me digging

966
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 7: up the crime years and years later gave them that

967
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 7: bit of fame, I guess.

968
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 5: But the death right, I have a question for you, Alan,

969
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 5: And actually, if anyone else out there does give us

970
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 5: a call, we are at eight eight eight three one Crime.

971
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 5: And yeah, Alan Weiter he created Wondering's hit podcast, The

972
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 5: Donut Shop Murders, So yeah, he's here for any questions

973
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,280
Speaker 5: that you may have and I believe you were searching

974
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 5: for the town. I believe it might be Athens, Texas.

975
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 7: Yes, Athens, Texas.

976
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 5: Good job for it's a good job, taha. It's like

977
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 5: hot potato of passing information.

978
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 2: Thank you, taha.

979
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,760
Speaker 5: So you've called the story sort of a twisted American dream.

980
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 2: What do you mean by that?

981
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 7: Well, you know, when it really was on the very

982
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 7: big team of people making and it was really just

983
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 7: me on my couch, and then I had this really

984
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 7: talented associate producer named Michael, and it was really just

985
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 7: us too, just calling around and trying to find cops

986
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 7: who had worked on the case. And you know how

987
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 7: it is. I mean, you're an amazing podcast that you

988
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 7: did on the Piked Mascer and so many other amazing

989
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 7: grind podcasts. You know the deal. But we were joking

990
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 7: that they were like the Griswolds, you know that it

991
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 7: was like this weird, disturbing road trip. It was like

992
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 7: almost like natural born killers. But they were a family.

993
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,319
Speaker 2: I can't even not to cut you off, Alan, but

994
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 2: it's extremely rare for a family. And by the way,

995
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 2: they're not all blood either. That some of this is

996
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 2: like by marriage.

997
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 7: They were all involved Liz McCrary was involved in covering

998
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 7: up some of the crimes. Herman was the boss. You

999
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 7: had Carl Taylor, who was the son in law. He

1000
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 7: was married to Ginger, who was Sherman's daughter. And then

1001
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 7: there was another son named Danny, who was also Sherman

1002
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 7: and Liz's son, who was kind of an idiot, but

1003
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 7: he really wanted in. He was like intoxicated by the

1004
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 7: killings they were doing. He knew what was going on,

1005
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 7: and so they led him in a couple of times

1006
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 7: into the into the killings. I think he participated in

1007
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 7: a couple of them. And then they had young children too.

1008
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 7: Carl and Ginger had three three children, and they were

1009
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 7: traveling in a in a station wagon. So that's why

1010
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 7: I said it was this twisted American dream because it

1011
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 7: was like a of this family in a station wagon.

1012
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 7: And I talked to a lot of cops who theorized

1013
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 7: that their crimes were so sloppy. They would just like

1014
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 7: kill a woman and leave her in a field. They

1015
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 7: left fingerprints everywhere. They were terrible criminals, but the reason

1016
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:16,879
Speaker 7: why they didn't get caught was because they were They

1017
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 7: seemed to be a family traveling in a station wagon,

1018
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 7: and I think there was like a Volkswagen Beetle like

1019
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 7: with I think Ginger drove that, but like there was

1020
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 7: they were moving into They were a caravan and few cars,

1021
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 7: and they were going all these places and committing these

1022
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 7: famous crimes. But the cops couldn't process it because it

1023
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 7: was nineteen seventy two.

1024
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 5: Oh, so they couldn't connect with the with the DNA

1025
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 5: because DNA outens didn't exist.

1026
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 7: Is that DNA didn't exist and police departments didn't really

1027
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:51,880
Speaker 7: work that well together. He went on, Yeah, so they

1028
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 7: finally there was enough evidence for the Texas Department of

1029
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 7: Public Safety, I think, to issue a traveling criminal's bulletin.

1030
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 7: So there were cops in Texas, Utah where they're first

1031
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 7: killing had taken place, and then in Colorado there was

1032
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 7: this guy named Joe Fanculi who was such a stud

1033
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 7: and he was the He was the lead homicide detector,

1034
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 7: who detective who caught the family. He actually put them

1035
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 7: behind bars. He was the one and I had the

1036
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 7: great pleasure of getting to know him for you know,

1037
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 7: the six months that we were making the podcast, and

1038
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 7: then we became very friendly and unfortunately he died cancer. Yeah,

1039
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 7: but he was such a cool guy. I mean, the

1040
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 7: guy was like Colombo. He was like, you know, he

1041
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 7: the detective who ultimately brought the family down. Was his

1042
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 7: degree was in literature, and he thought like, he's not

1043
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 7: about crime in terms of a story, and he was

1044
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 7: way ahead of his time. I mean, he was almost

1045
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 7: like those early FBI A serial killer profiles who just

1046
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 7: kind of understood it before everybody else. Mind hunter, yeah,

1047
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 7: like mine hunter. Yeah. He was that kind of that

1048
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 7: level of a detective and he was able to piece

1049
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 7: it together. And then they issued a traveling criminal's bullet

1050
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 7: in that of Texas and that led to there that

1051
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 7: Barly took. It wasn't quick, but they let it did

1052
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 7: ultimately lead to their capture in southern California. They made

1053
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 7: it all the way back to southern California. It was

1054
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 7: just such they were such a bunch of like morons.

1055
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 7: In fact, the interesting sort of being good I have

1056
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 7: about this is that when they were in the Pacific Northwest,

1057
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 7: that they were in Portland and they kidnapped a young

1058
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 7: woman named Cynthia Glass. She was like a hippie chick,

1059
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 7: you know, really really cool, very typical of the era

1060
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 7: early seventies in Portland, and she didn't think they were serious.

1061
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 7: He didn't think they that they were going to do

1062
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 7: anything to her. She just thought that they were idiots.

1063
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 7: And she like took out a joint and started smoking

1064
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 7: a joint in the back of in the back of

1065
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 7: their car, and started joking.

1066
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 5: With them, and like, we're going to Cliff hang on

1067
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 5: them smoking a joint in the car. Such a sign

1068
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 5: of the times. And keep it here because when we

1069
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 5: come back we have more. Ellen Wier reveals how detectives

1070
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 5: finally connected all of the dots.

1071
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 2: A little more details on.

1072
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 5: That that and more True Crime Tonight.

1073
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1074
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of

1075
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 2: course with dancing Courtney Armstrong. Right now, Courtney, you are

1076
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 2: cutting it up during the break and I love it

1077
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 2: so much and of course our body move it. And

1078
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 2: we're here with Alan Reader who is talking about his

1079
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 2: podcast that he produced called The Donut Shop Murders. And

1080
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 2: you know, Alan, we'll let you give a little context,

1081
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 2: but just you know, what we're so blown away by

1082
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,440
Speaker 2: is the idea of a family who murders. Obviously, we

1083
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 2: did the Pithon massacre of family murders. It's so incredibly rare.

1084
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 2: It's also incredibly rare for stories to stick together. Right

1085
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: in this case, it might even be multi generational. Yeah,

1086
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 2: and some bug brought the son in law was super involved,

1087
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 2: by the way, not even by blood. What is this

1088
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 2: weird spark that family that the maze together, right, like, oh,

1089
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 2: these yeah, exactly what isn't that the truth? Usually people

1090
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: turn on each other though, even family, right, so you

1091
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 2: can set your clock to the watch of Oh, yeah,

1092
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 2: this all seemed good until somebody turns. So having multiple

1093
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 2: people keeping the same story straight is a very rare thing.

1094
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 5: And also this road trip, like a road trip on

1095
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 5: it on a good day. Take the murders out of

1096
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 5: it is hard enough. Oh you know, but you're all

1097
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 5: stacked together.

1098
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 4: That is, and they're just killing them their way across

1099
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 4: the states, right, Like that's how they're basically traveling.

1100
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 7: They you know, the first killing was in Utah and

1101
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 7: it was years after they were committing petty crimes in

1102
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 7: Texas mathams they suddenly just I asked a couple of

1103
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 7: our experts, like, you know, like, well, what causes somebody

1104
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 7: to go from being a petty criminal, robbing grocery stores

1105
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 7: and liquor stores. That being a murderer. And one of

1106
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 7: my one of my experts, who's this criminologist named Lewis Lessinger,

1107
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 7: he said they were already murderers. It just hadn't clicked

1108
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 7: in yet.

1109
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 4: They were like attracted to each other because like they

1110
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 4: saw something in one another that made them attracted to

1111
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 4: one another.

1112
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 2: You know.

1113
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, because when Sherman and Carl started, they had a

1114
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 7: relationship that was close but competitive, and they were robbing.

1115
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 7: They were they were robbing, they were passing bad checks.

1116
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,479
Speaker 7: But then all of a sudden, Sherman was like, okay,

1117
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 7: how about this thought had shoot this ConA shop worker,

1118
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 7: And then Carl kind of thought it was intoxicating, and

1119
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 7: then they started doing it together.

1120
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 2: They just kept escalating and getting that direct.

1121
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 7: A very weird aspect of this road trips situation is

1122
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 7: that they would actually settle in some cities. We need

1123
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 7: to just get the heat is on, we need to

1124
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 7: they need to cool down.

1125
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:06,919
Speaker 2: The cooling off period, the cooling off period. Alan, it's

1126
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 2: my skir I want to do a documentary about this.

1127
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 7: The cooling they're cooling off, but their cooling off period

1128
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 7: was very condensed. Like with a serial killer, it could

1129
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 7: be years before they committed the crime, as you've seen,

1130
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 7: like the Long Island serial killer and stuff like that.

1131
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 7: They would settle down and be like, Okay, we're good,

1132
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 7: and then Ginger would like decorate that new house, buy

1133
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 7: TV and rugs and beds, and spend all whatever money

1134
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 7: they had robbed. And then they need to do it again.

1135
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 2: They need more money.

1136
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 7: Please, Yeah, it would let's let's all right, time to

1137
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 7: get it. Would leave behind all the stuff that they bought.

1138
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 2: They left their new house that had all the stuff

1139
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 2: in it, and then they would dip. Yeah, just so

1140
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,200
Speaker 2: they could repeat the exact same pattern.

1141
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:54,479
Speaker 7: She was constantly buying televisions in different cities and yeah,

1142
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 7: it's really weird. I think it was because they liked

1143
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 7: the idea of stopping and settling down, but they couldn't

1144
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 7: do it just Sherman and Carl just weren't one there

1145
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 7: that way.

1146
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 2: There was a compulsion probably on her part too. She

1147
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 2: was nesting, setting up a nest exactly.

1148
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 4: Was nesting and wanted to it. Seems like maybe wanted

1149
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 4: some stability.

1150
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 2: But they were driven. They were driven.

1151
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 4: I'm totally guessing they were driven to kill from necessity,

1152
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 4: but found out they actually kind of liked it and

1153
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 4: kept going, that's what it sounds like to me. This

1154
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 4: is the first time I'm hearing it, so please, I

1155
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 4: might be wrong.

1156
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 7: No, no, no, I think they they They sounds amazing

1157
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 7: because it was a Sherman was the first one to

1158
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 7: pull the trigger and it was a thrill for him.

1159
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 7: And then Carl was like, didn't want to be one up,

1160
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 7: so he started shooting too. And then they committed a

1161
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 7: bunch of rapes too. They didn't rape all their victims.

1162
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 7: This is a difference, you know. I spent a whole

1163
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 7: episode on this questionable that was this family serial killers

1164
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 7: or were they just something else? And I asked all

1165
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 7: the detectives that I had been working with build the podcast,

1166
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 7: and some of them, Fantually the badass detective that I

1167
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 7: told you about, he thought they were serial killers, but

1168
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,439
Speaker 7: a lot of the other criminologists and people I talked

1169
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 7: to were like, they were spree killers. And I was

1170
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 7: fascinated by the distinction.

1171
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 4: To take two things, because there.

1172
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 7: Is the difference is a serial killer has a longer

1173
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 7: cooling off period, and it has more of a methodology

1174
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 7: and more fetishistic feelings about the crime, like they returned

1175
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:31,959
Speaker 7: to the side of the They returned like in the

1176
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 7: Smile Serial Killer, he would return to those bogs or

1177
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 7: wherever he had got those women. And like haspect with

1178
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 7: their corpses, this family did not do anything like that.

1179
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 7: They weren't. What they did was incredibly disturbing, but they

1180
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:45,439
Speaker 7: weren't like thick in that way.

1181
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, they were killing out of necessity, for money and

1182
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 4: for things.

1183
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 7: And it was a spree killing, you know. But like

1184
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 7: I mentioned the girl in the Pacific Northwest, if they

1185
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 7: had who didn't think them seriously, he thought she thought

1186
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 7: they were clowns. She was like, you don't have to

1187
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 7: worry about I hate the cops. I'm going to go

1188
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 7: to the cops just like let me go. And then

1189
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 7: they shot her. So really, it's.

1190
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 2: Just horrible what happened two generationally speaking, What do you

1191
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 2: make of it? Like, what did they what becomes of this?

1192
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, you know, I really wanted to know what

1193
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 7: the effects of their of their crimes were on their descendants.

1194
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 7: Most of them, weirdly had most of like the grandkids

1195
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 7: of Sherman McCrary and and the grandkids of Carl and

1196
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 7: the kids of Carl and Ginger were dead. A lot

1197
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 7: of them had died really young, and I wonder whether

1198
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 7: it was just like trauma. I didn't hear when the

1199
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 7: podcast came out. I did hear from some relatives, including

1200
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 7: it was the daughter of Carl Taylor, and I asked

1201
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 7: her if she would give me an interview, and she

1202
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 7: didn't want to. She just wanted to privately tell me

1203
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 7: about her pain over email. She didn't want to be

1204
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 7: in the podcast. She didn't want on a formal any

1205
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 7: kind of formal interview. But my sense is that the

1206
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 7: family was just a complete disaster and that the youngest,

1207
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 7: the younger generations just died out. And I've always been

1208
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 7: really interested in generational trauma.

1209
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 2: By the way, if you're just joining us, I'm Stephanie Leidecker.

1210
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 2: I'm here at Courtney or I'm Strong and body move

1211
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 2: in and we're here with Alan Wader, who is talking

1212
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 2: about his podcast that he produced, The Donut Shop Murders,

1213
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 2: and we're talking a bit about generational trauma.

1214
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 7: My grandfather was He had been in a car accident

1215
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 7: when I was little, so he was kind of an invalid,

1216
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 7: but I used to just sit on his lap and

1217
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 7: he would like tell me stories about the Holocaust when

1218
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 7: I was like seventy years old. Grimley kind of like

1219
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 7: grimly funny, but I was very, very curious kid, and

1220
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:43,479
Speaker 7: I'd be like, like, are your mom and dad still

1221
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 7: a lot? You know? I would like ask questions that

1222
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 7: they would he would tell me know they were all killed.

1223
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 7: And I've always been interested in like senseless killing. And

1224
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 7: I think that's what attracks me to the crime genre

1225
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 7: so much, is that, you know, and I watch every

1226
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 7: crime podcast or every crime series it comes out in

1227
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 7: pretty well, watching Worst Way for Endeavor ever.

1228
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know that I.

1229
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 7: See that sexs Ever on Netflix. It's good, but yeah,

1230
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 7: so you know, I remember when I was in high

1231
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 7: school and I learned about pole Pot. I was like,

1232
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 7: holy rap, this guy's monster. And so the family I

1233
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 7: was very attracted.

1234
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 2: Not sorry to cut you off, but even the idea

1235
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 2: of a spree versus a serial killer, a killing spree

1236
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 2: versus a serial killer, that idea so scary. I don't

1237
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 2: know that I've ever really thought about it. A spree

1238
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 2: I always thought was someone who was like, I don't know,

1239
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 2: go in door to door god forbid, or maybe at

1240
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 2: a Walmart and just shooting anybody that walks in the door.

1241
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 2: But I would suppose if a family very.

1242
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 4: A spree, no reel direction, a spree has multiple locations,

1243
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 4: So like, really I understood that.

1244
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 7: Fully killings have multiple locations and not a lot of

1245
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 7: time in between the crimes. It's almost like the natural

1246
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 7: born killers exactly. But it led me to kind of go,

1247
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 7: has this ever happened before? Was there ever a family

1248
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 7: that engaged in this kind of brutality? And I found

1249
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 7: this family, the Bloody Benders had an inn in Kansas.

1250
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 7: And once again, I don't know the city, Steph, the

1251
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 7: court You're gonna have to look up the city.

1252
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 2: I love that you went from me to Courtney because

1253
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 2: you're smart and knows it already. Quitting top of head.

1254
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 2: What's the city? I don't got it. I don't got

1255
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 2: it to say Florida.

1256
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 7: They were in Kansas, was it Applene? I'm trying to remember,

1257
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 7: but uh, anyway, they had it. They had an inn.

1258
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 7: They had an inn and it was bizarre facility they

1259
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 7: had like it was this kind of quaint, nice family

1260
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 7: in where they sold provisions. This was in eighteen seventy one.

1261
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 7: They sold provisions in one half of their inn and

1262
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 7: then had some dormitory is for traveling cowboys or wherever

1263
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:04,639
Speaker 7: who would stay there. And then but there was this

1264
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 7: cloth that covered an area of the inn, and nobody

1265
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 7: knew what was behind the cloth. Well was behind the

1266
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 7: cloth were a bunch of killing tools, and they would

1267
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 7: serve the guy. The guy, this wayward traveler would have

1268
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:17,599
Speaker 7: dinner and then he would all of a sudden someone

1269
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 7: would come out from behind the cloth and bash his

1270
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 7: head in twisted well.

1271
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 4: Thank you, Alan Witer, thank you so much for joining

1272
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 4: us for shedding light on this incredible story. You murderers

1273
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:33,759
Speaker 4: now on Wondery and wherever you get your podcast. Allan

1274
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 4: also produce through his company, Studio Wider, developing new true

1275
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,240
Speaker 4: crime documentary projects, So keep your eye out for him.

1276
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 2: Stick with us.

1277
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 4: You sending your talkbacks and now we're playing them. We're

1278
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:45,960
Speaker 4: going to be reacting live and maybe even calling a

1279
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 4: few of you out.

1280
01:09:47,120 --> 01:10:01,680
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio.

1281
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lydecker

1282
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:09,639
Speaker 2: here with Courtney Armstrong Important and you move in, Oh

1283
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 2: by the way, and Sam and Taha and Adam. So, okay, Tah,

1284
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 2: what you got for us? We need to lighten the

1285
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 2: mood from.

1286
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 6: Some murder something. I have something that's a complete polar opposite.

1287
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:27,839
Speaker 6: Do you remember when we started doing our hero segment

1288
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 6: and we started getting some heroes involved that, Well, I've

1289
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:33,600
Speaker 6: got an update and I'm gonna thill you in on

1290
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:35,720
Speaker 6: what's happening. So I'm going to bring everyone up to

1291
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 6: speed in case they weren't familiar. But early on we

1292
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 6: had an idea of having someone that we consider a

1293
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 6: hero that we would kind of call out in the show,

1294
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 6: and then they would tell their hero and it would

1295
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 6: kind of continue the cycle. Well, Stephanie and Courtney for mentioned,

1296
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 6: our first hero. Stephanie's hero was Whitney Galloway. They met

1297
01:10:55,000 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 6: her during the Pike County Murders documentary. Whitney then Whitney,

1298
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 6: who was Stephanie's hero, is now working with us at

1299
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:05,519
Speaker 6: True Crime Tonight. So cheers to that.

1300
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 2: Courtney's hero, Yes, a dual set.

1301
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:12,639
Speaker 6: So this is because she got two people that asked

1302
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 6: for her. She continued the cycle and said her husband Kyle,

1303
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 6: who's a police officer and a chemical specialist in the military,

1304
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 6: is her hero. So we talked to him. He told

1305
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 6: us who his hero is, and his is a gentleman

1306
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 6: by the name of Aaron, who's a jet motor mechanic

1307
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 6: in the military. So we reached out to Aaron to

1308
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:37,200
Speaker 6: find out who his hero was. Sadly, he is pcsing.

1309
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:39,599
Speaker 6: I didn't know what this term was. It's a military term,

1310
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,680
Speaker 6: I guess, but it means permanent change of station. So

1311
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 6: because of his permanent change of stations, he unfortunately wasn't

1312
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 6: able to get back to us and talk to us

1313
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 6: about his hero. But we want to wish he and

1314
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:59,040
Speaker 6: his family smooth transition overseas. What sacrifice but Whitney sacrifice.

1315
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 6: Whitney had that pretty cap on and she said, what

1316
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 6: if we do something a little different and our next

1317
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 6: heroes are our four legged friends, like sort of painines

1318
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 6: who've done something heroic soastic. You like that?

1319
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 2: Goodness? Listen, I'm the only pet detective allowed on the show. Okay,

1320
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:23,760
Speaker 2: you don't with body? By the way, don't f with

1321
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 2: Rita is the new season two? Don't f with Rita?

1322
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 6: Don't with Rita? I do like right's?

1323
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,880
Speaker 2: Is Rita active or is she a little like low key?

1324
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:35,719
Speaker 6: She?

1325
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 10: She's active? I mean she I have to put on

1326
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 10: socks first thing in the morning. She'll just bite my

1327
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 10: feet like alm, I'm trying to wake up she's.

1328
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 2: I wouldn't call it a nibble. She'll just bite them.

1329
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:54,640
Speaker 10: Maybe she's hungry, but she's a good cat. Then she

1330
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 10: just sleeps the rest of the day. She just gives

1331
01:12:57,400 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 10: me a hard morning.

1332
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 5: I think you know that thing just puts her on

1333
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 5: the cusp of even being considered for future hero segments.

1334
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 6: Yes, I'm gonna say I want cats to be in

1335
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 6: our future one, But for this one, I've got a

1336
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 6: dog who wants to hear about a heroic dog.

1337
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 2: I do we do?

1338
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 10: I do?

1339
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:14,679
Speaker 2: I do?

1340
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 6: All right, raise your paw if you want to.

1341
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 2: Everybody's paws up, Sam, where's your paw? Yeah?

1342
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:25,599
Speaker 6: Are you ready for this one? Here's the story. It's

1343
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 6: a Florida rescue dog who is being hailed as a

1344
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:33,440
Speaker 6: hero after saving her owner's life during a medical emergency.

1345
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:38,040
Speaker 6: Here's the story. On September fifteenth, twenty twenty one, Harry

1346
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 6: Smith was walking his dog Ellie, when he suddenly suffered

1347
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 6: a stroke and collapsed in the driveway. No one was around, well,

1348
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 6: Ellie went crazy, started barking frantically ran between Harry and

1349
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 6: the neighbor's property line refused to leave like he was

1350
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 6: like like Ellie's like barking and going insane. The neighbor,

1351
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 6: Carol Kelly, came running out because she heard the dog barking.

1352
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 6: She discovered Harry lying unconscious, called nine one one and

1353
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 6: they came saved his life. The Gainesville Fire Rescue paramedics

1354
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 6: arrived and the doctors confirmed it was a stroke and

1355
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 6: they credited Ellie's behavior for the rapid response. So he

1356
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 6: would not be alive if not for little Ellie who

1357
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 6: saved their live hero. Isn't that amazing? They and in

1358
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 6: the area. The town Gainesville went as far as to

1359
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 6: organize a good Dog parade honoring Ellie, stopping Ellie, I

1360
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 6: know three parcels and maybe it got me choked up

1361
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:39,680
Speaker 6: because I'm like, I'm a big dog man. So they

1362
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 6: had a.

1363
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 2: Little parade for little Ellie. When he tells us, I

1364
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 2: like these, smile honestly reaches his ears.

1365
01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 6: What you're making me smile more? Well, I have another

1366
01:15:00,280 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 6: one if you want to hear one more. I got

1367
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 6: a nine story. Okay, here's another one. This one is

1368
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 6: also in Florida, This is a police canine K nine

1369
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 6: named Midnight, and Midnight is being held as a hero

1370
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:14,599
Speaker 6: after finding a missing three year old boy.

1371
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 7: The three year old.

1372
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 6: Went wandering away from his home into this I guess

1373
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 6: it's a wooded area near the home and crazy the

1374
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:25,120
Speaker 6: little boy just left walking around. This happened back in

1375
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:30,080
Speaker 6: October second of twenty twenty four. The police got a

1376
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:32,680
Speaker 6: nine to one one call. The panic family call, our

1377
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:34,559
Speaker 6: little three ye old son has gone from our yard.

1378
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 6: We don't know where he is. They've responded, and the

1379
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:43,200
Speaker 6: department sent out their tracking team. This Deputy Ryan Martin,

1380
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 6: he went out and he brought along his partner Midnight,

1381
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 6: the K nine. As soon as Midnight got there, they

1382
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 6: gave him a little clothing item. He started taking the sniff.

1383
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 6: He went through the trail. Thirty minutes later he began

1384
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:00,720
Speaker 6: he found the child. Midnight led them almost and this

1385
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 6: is the crazy part. It was almost half a mile

1386
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 6: away from the residents. As soon as the little child

1387
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 6: saw Midnight, reached up and tried to touch, Midnight was

1388
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 6: all excited and happy. So there's another beautiful one where

1389
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 6: we're going to say thank you to Midnight, who's a

1390
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:20,639
Speaker 6: black German shepherd trained in sent training and rescue operations.

1391
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 2: It's amazing. Well you did so good. And those were

1392
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 2: such good stories.

1393
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 6: I love those. I know they make me feel really

1394
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:27,240
Speaker 6: good because I.

1395
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:30,640
Speaker 2: All were together and Coda the dog went missing and

1396
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 2: we had one a dog hunt. Oh yeah, do you

1397
01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:41,719
Speaker 2: remember that? Oh yes, it was together. Who's our pop

1398
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 2: culture crime expert. We were all hanging, we were in person.

1399
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 2: This was like free show. He brought his dog, who

1400
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 2: is Coda? Who's so beautiful, but he's like a little humid.

1401
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 2: It's like a person.

1402
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 6: It's a big dog.

1403
01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a huge wrestler in a was very

1404
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 2: lean in me but in a dog outfit. Like he's

1405
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:10,360
Speaker 2: as big as it could be. And somehow he got loose. Yeah,

1406
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 2: oh was beside.

1407
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 6: Himself, beside himself, but he got He went really far,

1408
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:17,599
Speaker 6: he didn't I remember, he went like miles.

1409
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:23,799
Speaker 2: Remember Brian nat Miller and Doron went and our neighbor.

1410
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 2: It was a whole dog caper. Then I felt like

1411
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,480
Speaker 2: it was so bonding. We all were like slightly traumatized

1412
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:34,559
Speaker 2: and out of breath and exhausted and grateful beyond measure.

1413
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 4: These canines, though, I mean, they are something I love

1414
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:44,599
Speaker 4: the videos of the canines retiring and they call in

1415
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:47,400
Speaker 4: like the last you know, I'm ten twenty or whatever.

1416
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 4: They're leaving due to you for the day. And then

1417
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 4: they they'll have like the police line a hallway and

1418
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 4: the dog just kind of walks.

1419
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:56,640
Speaker 2: It's just like like their last shift, right, you know

1420
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 2: they're doing like everyone's clapping. Yes, how about then like

1421
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:02,759
Speaker 2: the dog? And I'm going to get this a little

1422
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 2: bit wrong, and I don't think I'm exaggerating, Courtney body wrong.

1423
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,680
Speaker 2: So there was a dog that like traveled to a

1424
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 2: different state his like his person went away, maybe went

1425
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:18,720
Speaker 2: to the hospital. I don't know why. They weren't like abandoned,

1426
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:24,960
Speaker 2: and the dog knew that there like family was somewhere

1427
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 2: else and they traveled day and night, day and night

1428
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:31,759
Speaker 2: to get to their person. Does this ring a belt anybody?

1429
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,439
Speaker 6: I've heard it like this? I don't know, but I've

1430
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 6: heard these where there's a dog that's made its way

1431
01:18:39,320 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 6: like miles away after the This.

1432
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 2: Is not Merley and me that was the worst. But no,

1433
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 2: maybe it was. Well, the scent, it's the scent so much?

1434
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1435
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:55,719
Speaker 2: To me? Is all this dog talk making you consider

1436
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 2: a dog? Oh? I definitely can. I don't know what

1437
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:02,800
Speaker 2: the dog type should be. You know, it's a new

1438
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:04,800
Speaker 2: world that I find myself in.

1439
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I think you I'm leaning towards it. And

1440
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 6: I'm going to say, there are people out there who've

1441
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:15,840
Speaker 6: been listening and have opinions on what they think about

1442
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:17,160
Speaker 6: you getting a dog. Do you want to?

1443
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:18,080
Speaker 7: Oh?

1444
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 1: Really?

1445
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:21,959
Speaker 2: Really? Yeah, Sarah got intended.

1446
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:24,280
Speaker 7: Let's go, Hi, ladies.

1447
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 11: This is Renee from Orange County. I wanted to tell

1448
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 11: you girls, I love listening to you every morning when

1449
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:33,719
Speaker 11: I'm getting ready for work, and I was hearing how

1450
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:35,520
Speaker 11: Stephanie is thinking.

1451
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 7: About a dog.

1452
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 11: I have the most ShoWest dog ever.

1453
01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 4: He is a ship too.

1454
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 11: His name is Oliver, and he just stole my heart

1455
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:49,400
Speaker 11: after I lost my first dog that we had. So

1456
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:52,120
Speaker 11: get a dog. You will love that dog. It will

1457
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 11: steal your heart. You guys, have a great night, and

1458
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:58,599
Speaker 11: I'm so happy that I get to listen to you guys.

1459
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:04,559
Speaker 5: Love you, Thank you, and you and Oliver.

1460
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 2: We're gonna have the best, great, great name. I think

1461
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 2: because I'm in Tennessee now, I think I would have

1462
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:13,920
Speaker 2: to name it Dolly if it was stop it. Yeah,

1463
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 2: and what is Billy Ray? Billy Ray. Yeah, and Billy

1464
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:22,120
Speaker 2: Billy Ray. Oh my good, I love it. Yes. I

1465
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:25,120
Speaker 2: worked on Nashville Star and Billy Ray was the host.

1466
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,680
Speaker 2: Oh you're kidding me? Yeah, I need a dog nad

1467
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:31,160
Speaker 2: Billy Ray, Billy Ray. And by the way, he shout

1468
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:34,400
Speaker 2: out to Billy Ray and yeah, or Dolly, but I

1469
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:36,240
Speaker 2: should suit. They have a cute.

1470
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 4: Little What about jelly Roll? Oh my god, that's a

1471
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 4: great dog names alone, my love love him.

1472
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:52,760
Speaker 2: Can I just pause on post Malone for one?

1473
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:57,479
Speaker 5: So there was a song that post Malone had out.

1474
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:00,640
Speaker 5: It had to do with the weekend or jukeeo in

1475
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:06,240
Speaker 5: any case, Stephanie had an obsession. Was convincing me? I said, oh,

1476
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:08,000
Speaker 5: and and it was. It was on the radio all

1477
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:10,559
Speaker 5: the time. And I said, oh, I don't enjoy the song,

1478
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 5: and she.

1479
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:18,320
Speaker 2: Just, yes, you do because it is. She okay, how

1480
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:20,680
Speaker 2: do you listen? We're gonna have to come. We're just

1481
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 2: gonna have to listen to it for the night time.

1482
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:26,639
Speaker 2: Then be like, how you like it a little? No,

1483
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:30,560
Speaker 2: because it felt as though our DNA was like dispersed.

1484
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 2: I don't even remember the song, but yeah, sometimes he

1485
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 2: speaks to my heart. So Dolly.

1486
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 6: And Jey, and.

1487
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:45,559
Speaker 2: I like a lazy jelly Roll such a I'm lazy

1488
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 2: even work, like the annoying dog at work. Bol jelly

1489
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:51,640
Speaker 2: Roll you can call him. You can call him j

1490
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 2: R for short j R. Just like Dallas Dallas who

1491
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:03,760
Speaker 2: shot j R? Do you if my parents? But bulldogs

1492
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:05,040
Speaker 2: tend to be quite lazy.

1493
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:08,840
Speaker 4: Pugs are too, so are probably they're just I could

1494
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:12,240
Speaker 4: just go to the shelter and just get yeah, of course.

1495
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:13,880
Speaker 2: Of course, but like it would be good to go

1496
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 2: to the shelter. Listen, can you imagine me at a shelter.

1497
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 2: I'll be in eighteen thousand dogs. I'll have the whole

1498
01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:22,960
Speaker 2: shelter in the house. This is not gonna I don't

1499
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:25,479
Speaker 2: even know that. I I think I have to have

1500
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 2: like a little bit of a framework. Yeah, Dodger was

1501
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:32,439
Speaker 2: a surprise and he was so awesome and I love

1502
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:34,720
Speaker 2: him so much, But like I think I need to

1503
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:38,759
Speaker 2: have be intentional about the size. Of course, the type

1504
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 2: by the way you tossed me in a shelter and good,

1505
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:47,720
Speaker 2: but you can honestly a finder or there's an other

1506
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 2: place to have a canoe. I'm suddenly going to be

1507
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:51,599
Speaker 2: Noah's arc.

1508
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 6: I like that well, actually, I think we have to

1509
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:57,519
Speaker 6: talk back that ties in with something with shelter someone else.

1510
01:22:57,640 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 2: My god, are we talking more about dogs?

1511
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:04,640
Speaker 6: We got another dog one.

1512
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 9: Hey, guys, it's Alia NBC Canada. In regards to our

1513
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:12,519
Speaker 9: poor pets and getting over that. You know, you have

1514
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:15,120
Speaker 9: to give yourself the time that you need, but never

1515
01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 9: be afraid to love again, because there's always someone else

1516
01:23:19,439 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 9: who needs love and who needs a home. I have

1517
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:26,520
Speaker 9: had many cats, a couple of which were diabetic with insulin,

1518
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 9: and they give me so much more than I ever took.

1519
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:36,280
Speaker 9: I do know, however, that some people may feel like

1520
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:39,000
Speaker 9: they don't want to get another pet because they feel

1521
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 9: guilty about replacing their previously loved for a baby. But

1522
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:47,880
Speaker 9: I just really love to tell people that it's never

1523
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:52,960
Speaker 9: replacement to give a home to another soul that really

1524
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:56,919
Speaker 9: needs you. That's all I wanted to say. Don't shop rescue,

1525
01:23:57,320 --> 01:23:58,639
Speaker 9: that's all love you guys.

1526
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 4: Okay, So something and it kind of goes along with

1527
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,320
Speaker 4: this talkback. I lost my my soule dog. His name

1528
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:07,360
Speaker 4: was Ping okay, and I lost him on a Friday,

1529
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:10,599
Speaker 4: and I was devastated, obviously. I went to work Monday,

1530
01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 4: and a woman from our HR department called and she said, listen,

1531
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 4: there's a guy, one of our employees. He's going to

1532
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:20,000
Speaker 4: prison and he has this little pug puppy and Ping

1533
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 4: was a pug, okay, and he needs a home like today.

1534
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 4: And I was like, I was like, listen, I can't.

1535
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:29,679
Speaker 4: I just lost Ping Friday, Like I'm devastated. Whatever. Well,

1536
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:32,880
Speaker 4: my mother also worked with me at the time. HR

1537
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 4: called my mother and said, Deanna said no. My mother

1538
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:38,639
Speaker 4: called me and said, you better.

1539
01:24:38,439 --> 01:24:39,479
Speaker 2: Come home with that dog.

1540
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 4: And I'm telling you what, that's Lemon, my pug Lemon,

1541
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:46,479
Speaker 4: And it is the best thing I did, because I'm

1542
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 4: telling you right now, Dodger wants you to love again

1543
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 4: and give and give your love to save another dog.

1544
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 5: That's right, Yeah, give a dog a life, you know.

1545
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:02,639
Speaker 2: And pillows and nact such a life right, so hard

1546
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 2: to yeah, Okay, I'm feeling it. I'd love these I

1547
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:09,640
Speaker 2: feel so much. And I'd love you guys even discussing

1548
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 2: it or even taking the time to make space for

1549
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:17,120
Speaker 2: this conversation or to leave a talk back. It's so

1550
01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:22,040
Speaker 2: beautifully touching. And who knows, you know, Dolly or Billy Ray,

1551
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 2: they're gonna jell you this is gonna be a group efforts,

1552
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:30,720
Speaker 2: so we're gonna get ourselves a mascot. Okay, all in

1553
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:33,439
Speaker 2: good time. I'm open to the convo and thank you

1554
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 2: so much. We have Joseph Scott Morgan on Sunday, stay

1555
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:38,920
Speaker 2: with us True Crime tonight. We'll see you on Sunday.

1556
01:25:39,280 --> 01:25:39,800
Speaker 5: Love you, Ed,