Speaker 1: From My Heart Media. This is Missing in Alaska, the
Speaker 1: story of two congressmen who vanished in nineteen two, and
Speaker 1: my quest to figure out what happened to them. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, John Wallzac. On a hot September day last year,
Speaker 1: I flew from New Orleans to Phoenix, where I met
Speaker 1: up with our supervising producer, Paul Deckant. Paul, who flew
Speaker 1: in from Atlanta, got there before me. When I landed.
Speaker 1: He scooped me up in a rental car. We immediately
Speaker 1: drove toward our first interview with Jerry Paisley's daughter. To
Speaker 1: protect her privacy, let's call her Amy. My phone buzzed.
Speaker 1: It was Amy. Her son had just injured himself. She
Speaker 1: said she was at an urgent care. Could we reschedule you?
Speaker 1: Of course I was disappointed, but the unexpected free time
Speaker 1: was nice. Paul and I went to dinner at a
Speaker 1: Mexican place and plotted out the coming days. The next morning,
Speaker 1: we met up with Tom Davis, the Arizona Department of
Speaker 1: Public Safety investigator who helped interview Jerry Paisley in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy four. While working undercover. Davis had also secretly observed
Speaker 1: Paisley's wedding to Peggy Baggatte. One of the key questions
Speaker 1: I had for Davis, for everyone really, was whether or
Speaker 1: not Paisley told the truth truth. As a society, who
Speaker 1: do we choose to believe? Who do we instantly right off?
Speaker 1: Should we believe the politician discard the inmate? Why? What
Speaker 1: about Jerry Paisley? Specifically? I asked Tom Davis, would you
Speaker 1: be able to tell if he was lying? What were
Speaker 1: you looking for in terms of markers of deception for
Speaker 1: each and every story? Uh, consistency number one, and Davis
Speaker 1: said Paisley's story remained consistent. More importantly, everything Paisley said
Speaker 1: that could be verified, Davis in fact verified, including specific
Speaker 1: details about unsolved murders. I said, tell me something I
Speaker 1: can check out, and he says, well, you remember a
Speaker 1: supposed suicide in the Sahara. The Sahara was a Tucson motel.
Speaker 1: He says, well, during that period of time my life,
Speaker 1: me and Louis Marconi were running dope. Marconi, Paisley's friend
Speaker 1: was an ex cop. And I said, okay, I said
Speaker 1: what kind of dope? And he says cocaine. He said,
Speaker 1: we dabbled in, dabbled in marijuana, but moved over to
Speaker 1: cocaine because there was more money involved. So he goes
Speaker 1: and tells me that they're doing cocaine, and this end
Speaker 1: of edile that they had entrusted the cocaine to or gone.
Speaker 1: He had gone out and picked up the cocaine was
Speaker 1: back at the Saharah tried to rip him off. So
Speaker 1: the opening of the story was that was supposed to
Speaker 1: be a suicide. But he says, if you check with
Speaker 1: TPD in the coroner's office, he was shot twice and
Speaker 1: I said, okay, I said, now here's the flip side
Speaker 1: of that. Did you shoot him? Yes, I shot him
Speaker 1: twice in them out and Louis and I fought with
Speaker 1: him in the room. Um, we got him on the bed,
Speaker 1: I straddled him and shot him twice. Them out. Because
Speaker 1: of this confession, Paisley was convicted again in murder. In court,
Speaker 1: he was cocking and sarcastick. He thanked the jury for
Speaker 1: stopping by and called himself quote an honest liar. Obviously
Speaker 1: Paisley is not the most trustworthy person. Obviously he lied often,
Speaker 1: but he also told the truth at least part of
Speaker 1: the time. In fact, telling the truth is what earned
Speaker 1: him a second murder conviction. So if Paisley lied about
Speaker 1: Peggy Baggette meeting with Joe Banano, if he lied about
Speaker 1: Banano Lieutenant Joe I. Tarola giving him a locked briefcase
Speaker 1: to carry to Alaska, if he lied about Danny z
Speaker 1: Ivenach telling him the briefcase contained high tech explosives and
Speaker 1: that the missing congressman had been assassinated. Why why would
Speaker 1: he lie? What did he have to gain? The most
Speaker 1: obvious answer typically would be that he wanted some kind
Speaker 1: of leniency, time taken off his sentence, something like that.
Speaker 1: But he was already serving a long sentence for murder.
Speaker 1: He had no chance of getting out. And not only
Speaker 1: did he not receive leniency, but because he spoke, he
Speaker 1: was also convicted of a second murder, which earned him
Speaker 1: an even longer sentence. What then about money? Paisley made
Speaker 1: no money from this fame. Paisley made no concerted effort
Speaker 1: to talk to the media. What then about Peggy Beggatt.
Speaker 1: Did Paisley just hate her? Did he want to get
Speaker 1: revenge again? There's no evidence of this. Paisley and Peggy
Speaker 1: were long divorced, and in the interview, Paisley was ambiguous
Speaker 1: about Peggy's role in the alleged plot. He questioned whether
Speaker 1: or not she even understood what she had gotten herself into.
Speaker 1: What about notoriety or some kind of legacy. It's true
Speaker 1: that Paisley wanted to be remembered for his mob ties.
Speaker 1: It was undoubtedly a better look than his prison affiliation
Speaker 1: with the Aran Brotherhood. But what notoriety did he gain?
Speaker 1: So Paisley got no time taken off his sentence, he
Speaker 1: was convicted of a second murder, He made no money
Speaker 1: from his claims, he got no media, he didn't seem
Speaker 1: to have some boiling atrid to peggy baggage, And he
Speaker 1: gained no notoriety and told this show, And for that,
Speaker 1: I'm truly sorry. I don't cherish the idea of giving
Speaker 1: Paisley what he wanted at all, but I don't really
Speaker 1: care what he wanted. I care about the truth, And
Speaker 1: to that end, all three of the investigators who interviewed
Speaker 1: Paisley think there's at least a strong possibility that he
Speaker 1: did tell the truth. Furthermore, Paisley later offered to take
Speaker 1: a polygraph or lie detector test. It is, of course
Speaker 1: possible that Paisley just lied. Maybe there's no reason why,
Speaker 1: maybe he just did. Beyond scrutinizing his possible motivations, I
Speaker 1: wanted to see which parts of his story I could
Speaker 1: definitively prove. It was tough, but during my research I
Speaker 1: found evidence to corroborate much of what Paisley said, the
Speaker 1: parts that could be corroborated. But maybe he was just
Speaker 1: a good liar, mixing in truths and falsehoods. That's certainly possible. However,
Speaker 1: what I improve mob ties the marriage the business dealings
Speaker 1: has left me with an uneasy feeling and a hunger
Speaker 1: to find the truth. Late in the evening on the
Speaker 1: day I interviewed Tom Davis, I sat down in my
Speaker 1: hotel room in Phoenix and kept digging through databases trying
Speaker 1: to track down sources. One of the key players I
Speaker 1: was looking for was Gene Fowler. Fowler and his brother
Speaker 1: Larry were two of the six people Paisley named as
Speaker 1: having played a part in whereas having knowledge of the
Speaker 1: alleged bomb plot. Three of the six were dead. Joe Banano,
Speaker 1: Joeya Tarola, and Larry Fowler to refuse to talk with me.
Speaker 1: Peggy Beggett and Danny z Ivanitch so that left one person,
Speaker 1: Gene Fowler. I had looked for Jean for a long
Speaker 1: time without success. I can't tell you how many dead
Speaker 1: end numbers and emails I tried again and again. Maybe
Speaker 1: this Gene Fowler is the right one, Maybe this number
Speaker 1: will work. Be completed as did the number and dial again.
Speaker 1: So that night I shot off some emails, then fell asleep.
Speaker 1: Around two or three am September two, nineteen, I awoke
Speaker 1: to a surprise email. I found Jean Fowler, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't Jeane who emailed me back. It was his son, Steve.
Speaker 1: Steve was cautious, but he agreed to meet with us
Speaker 1: later that day at his house near Tucson. Excited, I
Speaker 1: texted Paul, our producer, and we agreed to meet downstairs
Speaker 1: for breakfast around eight am. We had a busy day planned.
Speaker 1: We were supposed to interview Amy, Paisley's daughter, and damn it,
Speaker 1: Amy canceled on us again. She apologized, saying her family
Speaker 1: wasn't comfortable with her doing the interview. I was disappointed,
Speaker 1: but I told her that I understood and that if
Speaker 1: she changed her mind to call me. I walked to
Speaker 1: the hotel breakfast area spotted Paul and said hello, thinking
Speaker 1: of Gene Fowler and are just canceled interview with Amy.
Speaker 1: I told him I had some important news. I got
Speaker 1: an omelet set it down on our table. But before
Speaker 1: I could sit down, my phone buzzed again and again
Speaker 1: and again. Today is September two thousand nineteen. Uh, Paul,
Speaker 1: one of our producers, and I are at a hotel
Speaker 1: in Phoenix, and we just went in to have breakfast. Uh.
Speaker 1: But wow, it's but a crazy A few hours Um,
Speaker 1: it was literally texting with Jerry Paisley's daughter, who I
Speaker 1: was supposed to interview on Sunday, and she backed out,
Speaker 1: um because she said her son was hurt. And then
Speaker 1: I was supposed to interview today at ten am. It's
Speaker 1: almost eight in Arizona where we are, and I was
Speaker 1: literally texting with her and setting food down on a
Speaker 1: table um when I got a text from Bob Martinson.
Speaker 1: Bob Martinson, remember that name. He's going to be very
Speaker 1: important to this story later on. You also told me
Speaker 1: something I hadn't heard, which is very kind of overwhelming
Speaker 1: and upsetting to hear at this very moment, which is
Speaker 1: that Cokie Roberts just died. Um. Also last night, U
Speaker 1: I U finally figured out where uh Gene Fowler lives.
Speaker 1: Fowler is the man who Jerry Paisley alleged. Um it
Speaker 1: was at the airport in nine two when Paisley says
Speaker 1: he carried a package for the bananas to Alaska. So
Speaker 1: I have all this swirling. I just walked out on Paul.
Speaker 1: He's sitting there eating and my my foods getting cold. Um.
Speaker 1: Really a kind of upset to hear that about COKEI
Speaker 1: Uh family seems to be very nice family, and you
Speaker 1: know they they lost Tommy a few years ago and
Speaker 1: Lindy too so and and to to hear that in
Speaker 1: the middle of all this, I mean, while I'm texting
Speaker 1: with very multiple people related to this story, is it's
Speaker 1: just weird. So I just sitting in a chair outside
Speaker 1: in a courtyard in a hotel and Phoenix. But um,
Speaker 1: I haven't had time to look too much to see
Speaker 1: what happened. But I believe Coke he died from breast cancer,
Speaker 1: which I didn't know she had. And I mean, I
Speaker 1: would like to express my adults start her family. Okay,
Speaker 1: it was overwhelming all at once. Cokey Bob, Paisley's daughter
Speaker 1: Geane Fowler. I sat outside for a while and just
Speaker 1: stared at the sky. Cokey was the last surviving child
Speaker 1: of Hale and Lindy Boggs. I had spoken briefly to
Speaker 1: her brother, Tommy. He agreed to do an interview, but
Speaker 1: several days later, before we could speak, he died of
Speaker 1: a heart attack. Coke and Tommy's sister, Barbara, the former
Speaker 1: mayor of Princeton, New Jersey, was also dead. She died
Speaker 1: of cancer, and now cancer had taken Coketo. Coke's death
Speaker 1: hit me hard. Only ten days earlier, the day before
Speaker 1: my birthday, my mom had gotten confirmation that she too
Speaker 1: had breast cancer, stage four inflammatory breast cancer, a rare
Speaker 1: and aggressive cancer. On top of lupus, which he's battled
Speaker 1: for thirty years. It seemed like a death sentence. Days
Speaker 1: before I flew to Arizona, I had flown home to
Speaker 1: North Carolina to see her. My mom's diagnosis weighed on
Speaker 1: me heavily. As we produced this show. I mostly kept
Speaker 1: it quiet, but there were times I wanted to share
Speaker 1: it with certain people, like the Baggage kids, so they
Speaker 1: could see that truly, at this moment, I could, in
Speaker 1: some way at least empathize with their loss, that I
Speaker 1: was human too, and not just some parasitic reporter. As
Speaker 1: of this recording, my mom has undergone chemo surgery and
Speaker 1: physical therapy up next radiation. Also, as of this recording,
Speaker 1: we as a world are in the middle of a
Speaker 1: devastating pandemic COVID nineteen or the novel coronavirus. I always
Speaker 1: planned to discuss loss or looming loss, or the possibility
Speaker 1: of looming loss, but I never imagined it would be
Speaker 1: under these circumstances. What I want to say most is
Speaker 1: that I've felt loss or the threat of it, nearly
Speaker 1: the entire time we've produced this show. It's been difficult
Speaker 1: to work, hard to focus, but given the circumstances, given
Speaker 1: our current global situation, I want to say this, We're
Speaker 1: all going through collective trauma right now. It hurts. Some
Speaker 1: of us have lost loved ones, some of us are
Speaker 1: terrified of losing loved ones. I just want you to
Speaker 1: know that I feel what you feel that fear, but
Speaker 1: we're in this together. And for anyone out there who's scared,
Speaker 1: who's afraid, who's depressed, who's anxious, I get it. This
Speaker 1: is horrible, but we will get through it. Be there
Speaker 1: for each other, love each other. We'll get through this.
Speaker 1: In Arizona, Paul and I still had a very long
Speaker 1: list of people to find, doors the knock on and
Speaker 1: places to visit. We were about to drive to Tucson,
Speaker 1: but before we left Phoenix, we made one final stop.
Speaker 1: I'm standing in the parking lot of the Clarendon Hotel.
Speaker 1: It's a hotel in Phoenix, Arizona, And on this very
Speaker 1: spot on June two, x Don Bowles, who was an
Speaker 1: investigative reporter who looked into the mafia and uh corruption
Speaker 1: around the state of Arizona, was killed by a car bomb.
Speaker 1: He said a few things before he died, John Adamson,
Speaker 1: emprize and mafia, And with those clues, investigators found a
Speaker 1: man named John Harvey Adamson, who was convicted of putting
Speaker 1: a remote control bomb under bowls car. It's abnormal for
Speaker 1: a journalist to be killed in the United States. It's
Speaker 1: extremely abnormal for a journalist to be killed by a
Speaker 1: car bomb. Um but car bombings happened. They happened in Arizona,
Speaker 1: they happened in Alaska in the and I mean I've
Speaker 1: read about this killing for a long time. And as
Speaker 1: weird to stand here because it's just an average parking
Speaker 1: lot in Phoenix, and a man was blown up here
Speaker 1: in the seventies. In old news footage of the Bulls bombing,
Speaker 1: you can see the exact spot where I stood, The
Speaker 1: exact spot in the parking lot of the Clarendon Hotel
Speaker 1: where Bowls was blown up. The pavement is soaked in blood.
Speaker 1: The assassination of Bowls in ninety six enraged his colleagues.
Speaker 1: Journalists from around the nation descended on Arizona to continue
Speaker 1: his work, to show that if you take out one
Speaker 1: of us, good luck, we'll dig deeper. These journalists launched
Speaker 1: the far reaching investigation into crime and corruption that became
Speaker 1: known as the Arizona Project. Good Evening, a group of newspaper,
Speaker 1: radio and television reporters charged today that the state of
Speaker 1: Arizona is now the major card or for narcotics into
Speaker 1: the United States, that the state has been invaded by
Speaker 1: organized crime, and that some of Arizona's major political figures,
Speaker 1: including Senator Barry Goldwater, have condoned organized crimes invasion of
Speaker 1: the state. The reporters took on their Arizona investigation to
Speaker 1: finish a job started by Don Bowles, a reporter for
Speaker 1: the Arizona Republic who was murdered nine months ago. The
Speaker 1: investigative work was painstaking. For six months, the team probe
Speaker 1: through public records, doing the slow, tedious, methodical work of
Speaker 1: the investigative journalist. What they found in records of land
Speaker 1: transactions and corporation documents and court documents would not have
Speaker 1: attracted the attention of most people. What they found were
Speaker 1: records of loans and canceled checks and request to politicians
Speaker 1: for help on certain projects. The reporters conducted hundreds of
Speaker 1: interviews and recorded many of them. They exchanged information with
Speaker 1: law enforcement agencies. They traced the geniale g. Of the
Speaker 1: mob families and located some of them in Arizona. At
Speaker 1: this point, as the reporter speaks, the camera pans over
Speaker 1: several books, including Honor Thy Father, the best seller on
Speaker 1: the Banano Family, the same book that tied Jerry Paisley
Speaker 1: to the Bananas. As the Arizona Project reporters dug deeper,
Speaker 1: they found pervasive rot They say in their reports that
Speaker 1: Arizona is now the major corrator for narcotics, that the
Speaker 1: state has been invaded by organized crime, that major political
Speaker 1: figures of the state have made an easy and profitable
Speaker 1: accommodation with the underworld. The major bank in Arizona, a
Speaker 1: large restaurant chain, the nation's foremost land swindler, corrupt law
Speaker 1: enforcement officials all find places in their stories. If you're
Speaker 1: curious at this point as to why I'm discussing Don
Speaker 1: Bowles and the Arizona Project at all, how they tied
Speaker 1: directly into the story of the missing congressman, let me explain. First,
Speaker 1: both Bowls and reporters for the Arizona Project dug into
Speaker 1: the two mob families. Jerry Paisley worked for the Bananas
Speaker 1: and the Lick of Olie's, who were not just in
Speaker 1: Arizona for some son. Both families were active and wielded
Speaker 1: powerful influence in the state. Second, Bowls was killed by
Speaker 1: a remote control bomb in Arizona less than four years
Speaker 1: after the missing congressman disappeared. Less than four years after,
Speaker 1: Jerry Paisley said he transported a bomb from Arizona to
Speaker 1: Alaska that was allegedly used to assassinate the missing congressman. Finally,
Speaker 1: I want to emphasize that it was a different time.
Speaker 1: Back then, bombings were much more commonplace in the six
Speaker 1: seas and seventies, and they weren't just concentrated in big cities.
Speaker 1: They were scattered around the nation. In fact, only four
Speaker 1: months after Bowls was killed by a car bomb in Phoenix,
Speaker 1: a woman named Muriel File was killed by a car
Speaker 1: bomb in Anchorage. So here in night Seen in the
Speaker 1: span of four months are two examples of bombings that
Speaker 1: killed people, one in Arizona and one in Alaska. Neither
Speaker 1: were directly tied to Paisley. But all this to say
Speaker 1: the idea of a small plane being bombed in Alaska
Speaker 1: four years earlier is not as outlandish as it seems.
Speaker 1: After we left Phoenix, Paul and I drove to Tucson.
Speaker 1: I was quiet for most of the ride, staring out
Speaker 1: the window, eyeing the desert. I texted Steve Fowler a
Speaker 1: few times. He sent me his address and a code
Speaker 1: to get into his gated neighborhood. Remember, Steve is a
Speaker 1: son of Gene Fowler, one of six people Jerry Paisley
Speaker 1: named as having taken part in or having knowledge of
Speaker 1: the alleged bombing of the missing congressman's plane. So Paul
Speaker 1: and I didn't really know what to expect. We figured
Speaker 1: Steve would be piste here. We were digging into his dad.
Speaker 1: When we pulled up to Steve's house, we just sat
Speaker 1: there for a minute. There was no car in the driveway,
Speaker 1: no movement. Then slowly the front door swung open, but
Speaker 1: we couldn't see anyone, just an open door leading into
Speaker 1: a darkened house. I got out of the car, Paul
Speaker 1: grabbed the recording equipment. We eyed each other like this
Speaker 1: is creepy. And then there was Steve. He smiled and
Speaker 1: welcomed us in. We sat at his kitchen table. He
Speaker 1: offered us water. He was friendly, which surprised me and
Speaker 1: made me suspicious. When name is Stephen Fowler. I am
Speaker 1: a native to s who spent about how of his
Speaker 1: life in Anchorage, Alaska, and from a very large family,
Speaker 1: and most of them are now gone. My father came
Speaker 1: from a family of three girls and eight sons, and
Speaker 1: my father is the only one that remains alive. At
Speaker 1: this point, I knew that Gene Fowler, Steve's dad, was alive,
Speaker 1: but I didn't know where he was. Half of me
Speaker 1: thought maybe that he was standing in a room down
Speaker 1: the hall, pushed up against the door, listening to our conversation,
Speaker 1: Steve said that when he was a kid, his family
Speaker 1: split their time between Arizona and Alaska. Jean his dad
Speaker 1: worked construction and mining jobs and found other ways to
Speaker 1: cash in on the Alaska oil boom too. There was
Speaker 1: a lot of opportunity to make a lot of money
Speaker 1: in a lot of different ways, and members of my
Speaker 1: family one of the things they did was they got
Speaker 1: into after hours gambling. They would open a place with
Speaker 1: a couple of black check tables at a poker table,
Speaker 1: and they didn't sell alcohol or anything like that. But
Speaker 1: when people had their paycheck, they cash it and now
Speaker 1: they wanted to have fun with it. So it was
Speaker 1: it was a big, a big period where nightlife was
Speaker 1: was huge. It was tough time for law enforcement. There
Speaker 1: was a lot going on. There was a lot of crime.
Speaker 1: Cocaine was everywhere um and it all stems back to
Speaker 1: the fact that there was a lot of money. The
Speaker 1: free flow of money brought in the cremble element, the drugs,
Speaker 1: the prostitution, the illegal gambling, and there was always somebody
Speaker 1: there to take advantage of the guy that just cast
Speaker 1: his paycheck. And probably from the time I was fifteen on,
Speaker 1: I started learning very quickly that there are two sides
Speaker 1: to Anchorage and the one side I never really saw,
Speaker 1: but as a teenager I learned there was a very
Speaker 1: seemi side to Anchorage. There were lots of bars that
Speaker 1: had a lot of crime involved with with those bars.
Speaker 1: There were shootings, there were there was prostitution, there were
Speaker 1: people were being beat I remember stories about the bars
Speaker 1: being firebombed, switching gears. I asked Steve what he knew
Speaker 1: about this story, what he remembered of the planes disappearance,
Speaker 1: which names he recognized, etcetera. So I'm gonna throw names
Speaker 1: at you, and you tell me what you know of
Speaker 1: these people. Jerry Paisley, Jerry Paisley, Jerry Paisley was a
Speaker 1: bar operator that, as I understand it, had ties to
Speaker 1: organized crime UM. Jerry Paisley, I believe he went to
Speaker 1: prison in Florence, Arizona, UH for more than a life
Speaker 1: term for killing someone in Tucson. I also believe I
Speaker 1: heard many years ago that while he was in prison
Speaker 1: he started confessing to taking six, seven or eight lives
Speaker 1: up in Alaska, and I think some of them were
Speaker 1: allegedly through bombings UM. Back when he was in Alaska,
Speaker 1: when Steve said this, it blew me away. Before our interview,
Speaker 1: I had, of course been honest with him about who
Speaker 1: I was and in general terms, what I was investigating.
Speaker 1: But with every source who might have important primary information,
Speaker 1: I'm also extremely careful not to taint their memory, so
Speaker 1: I hadn't gone into too much detail. I had not,
Speaker 1: for example, discussed the specifics of Paisley's claims or even
Speaker 1: told Steve Paisley's name ahead of our interview. So it
Speaker 1: really surprised me that not only was Steve familiar with Paisley,
Speaker 1: but he also knew to some degree what Paisley said
Speaker 1: in I asked him where he heard it the details
Speaker 1: of Paisley's claims. Steve said he probably picked it up
Speaker 1: from the Anchorage Daily News, but he definitely didn't. The
Speaker 1: Daily News never published Paisley's allegations, trust me. So. Jerry Paisley,
Speaker 1: originally from Detroit, lives in Tucson, was also in Alaska.
Speaker 1: Did your father and your uncle Larry, did they know
Speaker 1: Paisley in Tucson or just an Anchorage. I believe they
Speaker 1: knew him in Tucson. My uncle had a closer relationship
Speaker 1: with him. And and and when I say that I
Speaker 1: don't mean to say that they were close. They knew
Speaker 1: each other better than my father and Paisley and in Alaska,
Speaker 1: probably because my brother, my uncle was a bar fly.
Speaker 1: Dad's brother. Uh he Larry probably knew Jerry a lot
Speaker 1: better than my father. Larry Fowler, Steve's uncle, was again
Speaker 1: the man Jerry Paisley said he Geane Fowler and Danny's
Speaker 1: Ivanitch met up with on the day Paisley allegedly transported
Speaker 1: a bomb to Alaska. Larry is the guy who was
Speaker 1: shot to death in Anchorage only twenty seven days after
Speaker 1: Paisley did a follow up interview with an investigator. Steve
Speaker 1: was close to Larry. You know, Larry was was one
Speaker 1: of the biggest hearted guys I've ever met. Uh. He
Speaker 1: was a very nice man. He wasn't well educated, but
Speaker 1: he read a lot when he got older, and so
Speaker 1: he was a good guy. Um. I think he was
Speaker 1: like that junkyard dog that didn't have any teeth. He
Speaker 1: liked to be tough and gruff and tell people I
Speaker 1: know Jerry Paisley, and I know this guy, and I
Speaker 1: know that you know that guy. Um. And he acted
Speaker 1: like he was tough. He he walked with a gruff demeanor.
Speaker 1: So let me, uh kind of underscore one word that
Speaker 1: I always associated with him. He acted tough, but he
Speaker 1: was a coward. The circumstances surrounding Larry's death, do you
Speaker 1: find them suspicious? At this point? I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I would say suspicious, But
Speaker 1: there were a lot of unanswered questions. I asked Steve
Speaker 1: to tell me more about his dad. He told me
Speaker 1: that one of the defining moments of his dad's life
Speaker 1: occurred in nineteen seventy. My father in nineteen seventy, in June,
Speaker 1: was in a ditch in uh In, Alaska, very deep
Speaker 1: ditch with clay walls and water in the bottom, and
Speaker 1: the ditch caved in and broke twenty six bones and
Speaker 1: and my father's back laura, ribs, pelvis, legs, feet, and uh.
Speaker 1: He wasn't supposed to make it through the night. He
Speaker 1: was in traction in the hospital, and thirty days later
Speaker 1: he walked out and I asked him once. I said,
Speaker 1: why did you have so much determination? He said, because
Speaker 1: my family had forty dollars to our name. When I
Speaker 1: went in the hospital. We were living in a rental,
Speaker 1: and it's something that had happened to me, I would
Speaker 1: have left nothing for my family. Jean Fowler was all
Speaker 1: about family. Steve said, are you close her dad? Yes?
Speaker 1: And you were closer Uncle Larry too. Uh. Cut from
Speaker 1: totally different cloth than them. I have a different u uh,
Speaker 1: different ethical standard. I have different kind of character than them.
Speaker 1: I love them dearly. Um, they're good guys, but we're different.
Speaker 1: And I had tried to interview your dad, Are you
Speaker 1: comfortable sharing why that's not possible? Three years ago Dad
Speaker 1: had a major stroke. He's had a number of minor
Speaker 1: strokes since, and then about a year year and a
Speaker 1: half ago, he had a major heart attack. He's very
Speaker 1: hard to understand. In fact, just as you were pulling
Speaker 1: up to meet with me today, Dad had been trying
Speaker 1: to tell me something over and over and I didn't
Speaker 1: understand it. So I had him write it down on
Speaker 1: a piece of paper and have my mother called me
Speaker 1: and read to me what he wrote. And even he
Speaker 1: even has trouble with that. So, um, that's why he's
Speaker 1: not part of this this podcast. Do they live nearby here? Uh?
Speaker 1: They live seven miles away. So there we go. Of
Speaker 1: the six people Jerry Paisley named three were dead, two
Speaker 1: wouldn't speak with me, and the last one was alive
Speaker 1: but unable to communicate. I circled back to Paisley's allegation,
Speaker 1: about which Steve seemed to know a little, but not
Speaker 1: a lot. But that little, the fact that Steve somehow
Speaker 1: knew about them at all still intrigued me. You mentioned,
Speaker 1: uh that Paisley was speaking with law enforcement and or
Speaker 1: investigative reporters, or to my knowledge, that was never in
Speaker 1: the papers. Do you remember who told you that? No?
Speaker 1: I don't. Uh. You know, there were kind of a
Speaker 1: network of scuttle butt that always somehow ended up getting
Speaker 1: to my uncle and others. And I think before my
Speaker 1: uncle passed away, he had told me that he had
Speaker 1: heard that Jerry was talking to some officials or somebody
Speaker 1: about um, some missing bodies in Alaska, some unsolved crimes,
Speaker 1: and my uncle had been into soon just days before
Speaker 1: his death. I don't know if that played a role
Speaker 1: in and how he got that scuttle but but uh,
Speaker 1: that's why I think I heard about her. Are you
Speaker 1: aware that Jerry mentioned your uncle and your father to
Speaker 1: law enforcement. I don't know that. So Jerry had a
Speaker 1: very fascinating tale number one, and there were many unsolved killings,
Speaker 1: and he copped to at least five, I think six killings.
Speaker 1: One of the other things that Jerry said was that
Speaker 1: in nine seventy two, in the summer of seventy two,
Speaker 1: that he was asked by an associate of the Banano
Speaker 1: family to transport a package a briefcase to Alaska, and
Speaker 1: that he did, and that when he got to Alaska,
Speaker 1: there was a man named Danny, and your father met
Speaker 1: him at the airport. My father did, yes, Oh wow,
Speaker 1: did you did you not know that? No? No, that's
Speaker 1: just the only thing I know about anything to do
Speaker 1: with with with with what I think you're talking about
Speaker 1: is Jerry was telling people there's a real big deal
Speaker 1: about to go down, and that was right about the
Speaker 1: time that the that the Biggage plane went down. But
Speaker 1: uh no, this you're blown me away with this. I
Speaker 1: went on to read Steve documents detailing Paisley's allegations that
Speaker 1: Gene Fowler and Danny's Evidence picked up Paisley at the
Speaker 1: Anchorage Airport in nineteen seventy two, when Paisley allegedly transported
Speaker 1: a bomb from Arizona to Alaska, and that the three
Speaker 1: men later met up with Larry Fowler. Wow. Um, I
Speaker 1: can respond to what you read by saying a couple
Speaker 1: of things. I know my father and I can't say
Speaker 1: he didn't take Jerry Paisley to uh An airport or
Speaker 1: picked Jerry Paisley put An airport. My father would never
Speaker 1: ever knowingly do anything would bring harm to anyone. That's
Speaker 1: that's just my father. UM. Neither with my uncle. Um,
Speaker 1: local was just a coward. If they if they had
Speaker 1: had knowledge of it, do you think that they would
Speaker 1: have said something to someone now that I'm not sure of. UM.
Speaker 1: I know Dad was afraid of how bad people hurt
Speaker 1: good people. And Dad has never never thought it was wise,
Speaker 1: um to run to the police and tell police things,
Speaker 1: because it could jeopardize your own safety. Um. The allegation
Speaker 1: here is that your father and your uncle Larry, not
Speaker 1: that they were directly involved in any kind of bombing.
Speaker 1: The allegation is it was a different man, but that
Speaker 1: your father just picked him up at the airport, and
Speaker 1: that Paisley met with your father and your uncle on
Speaker 1: that trip. Well, if if, um, if I were to
Speaker 1: hear that again, of course my mind was racing as
Speaker 1: you were reading is to me and in so many ways,
Speaker 1: it's unfathomable that my my father could ever be involved
Speaker 1: in anything. Steve said that, like me, he was frustrated.
Speaker 1: Now he had a million questions for his dad, and
Speaker 1: his dad couldn't answer them. Why I was so interested
Speaker 1: to talk with your father is because there's so few
Speaker 1: people who actually and I know that I can't, but
Speaker 1: there are so few people related to this number one
Speaker 1: who were still alive number two who could theoretically provide
Speaker 1: any insight about the possibility of the plane being bombed.
Speaker 1: It's would would anybody believe anything Jerry Paisley said if
Speaker 1: it were not for the fact that he married the
Speaker 1: widow of the missing congressman and then later made these claims.
Speaker 1: Does not mean he was telling the truth, But it's
Speaker 1: like it becomes it's much harder than if he was
Speaker 1: just an average guy on the street who you wouldn't
Speaker 1: listen to him for two seconds. Again, it does not
Speaker 1: mean everything he said was true, and but this was
Speaker 1: this was enough that Dateline seriously investigated it. This p
Speaker 1: I was an army intelligence guy before he was a
Speaker 1: p I. Uh, there were very seasoned investigators who were
Speaker 1: significantly suspicious. Everybody that I've talked to who is reputable,
Speaker 1: who most of them quote called bullshit for a living,
Speaker 1: they have not and won't call bullshit. And it's not
Speaker 1: because they have any affiliate affinity for Paisley. It's because,
Speaker 1: like you said, if you hear this, this crazy tale
Speaker 1: from Jerry Paisley, and you know, I can find business
Speaker 1: records that show this or certain things can be corroborated. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe he was telling the truth, maybe he was lying,
Speaker 1: maybe he told partial truths. It's it's so hard to
Speaker 1: get to the truth here, It's almost impossible at this point.
Speaker 1: So that's why I was so excited to speak to
Speaker 1: your dad, not because I think your dad had any
Speaker 1: deep involvement in this, but because Paisley named your father
Speaker 1: and your uncle as people who might have had knowledge
Speaker 1: of this, and there's so few of those people left.
Speaker 1: But hearing me say that Jerry Paisley claimed that your
Speaker 1: father picked him up at the airport in Anchorage when
Speaker 1: Paisley brought a package two Anchorage from Tucson on behalf
Speaker 1: of the bananas. Do you think that's possible. I was
Speaker 1: as possible dead picked him up at an airport. I
Speaker 1: think it's is It's no different than if random cab
Speaker 1: driver picked someone up at the airport that had just
Speaker 1: cut his wife's head off. Um, in a different state.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean the guy knew anything about it or
Speaker 1: had any association with it. And I think my father
Speaker 1: is guilty by association in that in that narrative there,
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean for a moment that I think
Speaker 1: that Dad had any knowledge of anything about anything like that,
Speaker 1: because that's not my father. Um wow, I mean it
Speaker 1: just blows me away. What convinces you that there's no
Speaker 1: chance that he had any knowledge. That doesn't believe in
Speaker 1: hurting people. He doesn't like it when people hurt each other. Um,
Speaker 1: he's just he had horrors people getting hurt. Um, he
Speaker 1: values life. He's um, He's just he's not. He's not
Speaker 1: that person. M that that suggests that he is. And
Speaker 1: that's all I does is suggest doesn't say he had
Speaker 1: any knowledge of it. I mean I could believe all
Speaker 1: of that stuff and that even Dad took him to
Speaker 1: the to the airport unknowingly picking a guy up that
Speaker 1: might have had a bomb but not knowing. But my
Speaker 1: father would never knowingly pick somebody up that had a
Speaker 1: momb I can tell you that it did. Jerry Paisley,
Speaker 1: to your knowledge, have any problems or any beef with
Speaker 1: your dad and Larry to the point that it would
Speaker 1: prompt him to say something, not that I'm aware of,
Speaker 1: but you know, as you were reading that a while ago,
Speaker 1: the thought did cross my mind. I mean, why would
Speaker 1: a man say something like that. What's interesting to me
Speaker 1: about Paisley's claimed beyond the fact that certain parts of
Speaker 1: it are provable, again, does not mean all of it's
Speaker 1: approvable or true. Paisley very well could have been lying
Speaker 1: about all of it or part of it, and that's
Speaker 1: something that I want to be very clear about. I'm
Speaker 1: not here to do some bullshit conspiracy thing. I want
Speaker 1: to find the truth. It's really hard, but what Paisley
Speaker 1: said is just I mean, you understand why putting your
Speaker 1: father aside, just focusing on Jerry Paisley, you understand why
Speaker 1: it just seems suspicious, even too politic or winning reporter
Speaker 1: to a dateline producer, to law enforcement that this mob
Speaker 1: guy low level, medium level whatever, but had proven affiliation
Speaker 1: with the bananas and look of always would marry the
Speaker 1: widow of a missing congressman less than seventeen months later.
Speaker 1: You can't. It's crazy, um, But a lot of that happened.
Speaker 1: We know a lot of that happened. The marriages happened,
Speaker 1: that Blane went down. We just don't know a lot
Speaker 1: of the wise and what really happened. Well, I think
Speaker 1: I think it. You know, we go from what was
Speaker 1: the most logical explanation. The most logical explanation is the
Speaker 1: plane went down a bad weather, and I think, however,
Speaker 1: people just took that for granted and maybe when there
Speaker 1: should have been more follow up on other ends, there wasn't.
Speaker 1: I think people were just kind of happy to close
Speaker 1: the book on this. What I said to Steve is
Speaker 1: what I believe. I'm not looking to force a story here.
Speaker 1: I just want to find the truth. But other than
Speaker 1: Christal the Dateline producer, but he really looked into Paisley's claims,
Speaker 1: and that lack of follow up is what pisces me off.
Speaker 1: Do you know if your father or uncle were ever
Speaker 1: contacted by any members of law enforcement or the FBI
Speaker 1: to discuss Jerry Paisley's claims? No? No, The only the
Speaker 1: only knowledge that I have about Dad being contacted by
Speaker 1: law enforcement was right after the first hijacking. What was
Speaker 1: the guy's name, dB Cooper, Wait Wyatt. So dB Cooper
Speaker 1: supposedly hijacked the plane. I think that flew out of
Speaker 1: Portland or Seattle or somewhere. Dad had a friend in
Speaker 1: Alaska that loved to jump out of airplanes. This guy
Speaker 1: jumped out of airplanes all the time, and he would
Speaker 1: do it drunk, he would do it sober. He said,
Speaker 1: I don't care if I had the worst parachute. I'm comfortable.
Speaker 1: In fact, if you take the parachute off, I think
Speaker 1: I could hit the ground and still survive if I
Speaker 1: planned it right. And Dad thought he was nuts. And
Speaker 1: shortly after that hijacking, the the FBI came to Alaska
Speaker 1: and they said, you know, we understand you have association
Speaker 1: with one of these guys that are on our suspect list.
Speaker 1: And that's the only time that um I know of
Speaker 1: that Dad ever was involved in any kind of investigation
Speaker 1: like that. It was just that he knew a guy
Speaker 1: that jumped out of airplanes. And I'm assuming that guy
Speaker 1: was not dB Cooper. Dad's to this day thinks it
Speaker 1: was dB Cooper. Yeah, he never saw the guy again
Speaker 1: or anything. He didn't think he was capable of something
Speaker 1: like that. But the guy disappeared after after the hijacking,
Speaker 1: and and nothing's ever come of it. What was this
Speaker 1: guy's name? H boy? You know Dad told me his
Speaker 1: first name when he would tell the stories when I
Speaker 1: was young, but I don't remember. That was back in
Speaker 1: the sixties. I know, I know. A wild turn. Just
Speaker 1: when you thought the show had it all, here comes
Speaker 1: dB Cooper. Anyway, back to Paisley. Okay, So I interviewed
Speaker 1: the three men who the three investigators who talked to
Speaker 1: Jerry Paisle. It was Mike Grimes, Tom Davis who was
Speaker 1: in Arizona investigator, and Dave Tullis, who was an Alaska
Speaker 1: state trooper. And I was amazed they all agreed to
Speaker 1: speak on the record. It's it's not common. The thing
Speaker 1: that these guys said was they were very disappointed in
Speaker 1: the lack of a follow up by the FBI, that
Speaker 1: if Paisley's claims were true, that was a very serious allegation.
Speaker 1: They turned it over to the FBI. The FBI did
Speaker 1: investigate them, but it seems that it was a lackluster
Speaker 1: investigation to say the least. Um it just seems like,
Speaker 1: the going thing here is Jerry Paisley is a criminal.
Speaker 1: There's no reason to believe him, and I understand why
Speaker 1: people would say that, but it also just seems like
Speaker 1: a kind of convenient, lazy excuse to not follow up
Speaker 1: on information. I have no sympathy for Jerry Paisley in
Speaker 1: that sense. I mean, I don't know what he went
Speaker 1: through to make him the way that he was, but
Speaker 1: he killed people, He hurt people, he used people, and
Speaker 1: you know, the idea that these claims could be part
Speaker 1: of that legacy of hurting people is painful to the
Speaker 1: people obviously. I mean it bothers me. His was a
Speaker 1: life of crime, and in a life of crime, everything
Speaker 1: you do involves deceit, and so I'm sure he was
Speaker 1: a very accomplished lie. Was he lying about this? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I've done a lot of embezzlement work and
Speaker 1: chased down embezzlers, and you take everything in and you
Speaker 1: chase it every thread to its logical conclusion. And so
Speaker 1: when people get lazy and they close the books on
Speaker 1: allegations made by a guy like Baisley, I think I
Speaker 1: think that's a disservice to everybody involved. And when I say,
Speaker 1: everybody involved. On the day that plane went down, however,
Speaker 1: it went down into the side of a mountain, blew up,
Speaker 1: went into the water. I step, who knows when that
Speaker 1: plane went down, It was like throwing a stone in
Speaker 1: the middle of a calm lake. Those ripples are still
Speaker 1: going out and impacting people, and so it's it's it's
Speaker 1: important to the integrity of the of the investigation and
Speaker 1: to the lives that are impacted by those ripples that
Speaker 1: have continued to expand over almost fifty years. Now, it's
Speaker 1: only fair you follow every lead to its logical conclusion.
Speaker 1: You don't close the book just because it's inconvenient or
Speaker 1: you've got three more cases on your desk. But unfortunately
Speaker 1: that's what happened. Does it bother you that I'm still
Speaker 1: digging into this fifty years later, No, because, like I
Speaker 1: said earlier in the interview, Uh, I don't believe there's
Speaker 1: necessarily anything here worthy of a conspiracy theory, but there
Speaker 1: are unanswered questions, and I think wherever they are unanswered questions, uh,
Speaker 1: it makes sense to pursue it. So I actually commend
Speaker 1: you for trying to get to the bottom of this,
Speaker 1: and at the same time I recognize, and it's hard
Speaker 1: for as as hard as you're trying to to mitigate
Speaker 1: the pain it might bring to people. Um, people like
Speaker 1: myself hearing about my father's name at the airport, or
Speaker 1: if you sit down with Mark, Mark Baggage, Nack Baggage,
Speaker 1: Tom Baggage, you sit down with them, it's going to
Speaker 1: bring up pain to them. It's going to bring pain
Speaker 1: to them at some level. UM. Put At the same time, UM,
Speaker 1: no pain, no gain. And in order to get to
Speaker 1: the answers, you've got to do what you're doing, because
Speaker 1: law enforcement isn't doing it anymore. The fact that this
Speaker 1: didn't go public with what Jerry claimed to have have said,
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like it triggered an FBI investigation or anything.
Speaker 1: If it did trigger one, but it was brief. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that tells me that you're doing in the right thing.
Speaker 1: I recommend you, so I'm not angry at you at all.
Speaker 1: I legitimately though, I hate confrontation. I don't like showing
Speaker 1: up at people's houses. You know, why am I doing this?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a fascinating story. They're unanswered questions. There
Speaker 1: are a lot of questions nobody ever asked and I'm
Speaker 1: not really the type of person to just give up,
Speaker 1: but this is it for me. So whatever I learned here,
Speaker 1: it's somebody else can take up the mantle, or more
Speaker 1: likely we're just never gonna know the full truth. They're
Speaker 1: just again, you know a few odd things here or there,
Speaker 1: but there are just so many things, and there are
Speaker 1: a lot of powerful people in media and politics in
Speaker 1: Alaska that are aware of some or all of this
Speaker 1: that never said anything. So is your hope that this
Speaker 1: effort on your part, whether you take it much further
Speaker 1: or not, will genuinely will generate sufficient interest by one
Speaker 1: or more people to pick up the batone the torch
Speaker 1: and run with it. I would hope. So, yes, what
Speaker 1: I would really like to see, and I think what
Speaker 1: would have been fair to your dad is if people
Speaker 1: are innocent, then do a proper damn investigation and clear them,
Speaker 1: Because if what Jerry Paisley said is not true, then
Speaker 1: there's a lost opportunity that a better investigation wasn't undertaken
Speaker 1: in the mid nineties five years ago to clear people's
Speaker 1: names or to prove people guilty. So this is how
Speaker 1: September sev ended. At the end of this very long day,
Speaker 1: forty seven years after the congressman's plane vanished, and twenty
Speaker 1: five years after Jerry Paisley said it may have been bombed,
Speaker 1: I've found myself only seven miles away from Jean Fowler,
Speaker 1: one of the key players in Paisley's story, one of
Speaker 1: two men Paisley said picked him up at the Anchorage
Speaker 1: airport when he allegedly transported a bomb from Arizona to Alaska.
Speaker 1: It's stung to be so close to possible answers, and
Speaker 1: to know that if I had shown up three years earlier,
Speaker 1: I could have interviewed Jean. Now that was impossible. Stricken
Speaker 1: by strokes and a heart attack, Jean couldn't speak reporting
Speaker 1: this story. During the past nine years, as people have fallen,
Speaker 1: ill and died, I've watched evidence evaporate, knowledge disappear, but
Speaker 1: not all is lost. There are still answers to be had.
Speaker 1: Other people have important information. Many of these people are
Speaker 1: in two old photos, one color, one black and white.
Speaker 1: These are the photos of Paisley and Peggy Baggett's wedding,
Speaker 1: the originals that investigator Tom Davis gave me straight out
Speaker 1: of his Organized crime Bible. These are the red dot photos.
Speaker 1: Next time on missing in Alaska. How long after you
Speaker 1: arrived in prison did you meet Jerry Paisley. I met
Speaker 1: him in late two thousand and four. I think this
Speaker 1: week one task, using primary sources like newspaper archives, research
Speaker 1: what mob boss Joe Banana was up to between July
Speaker 1: nineteen two and November ninety two. I've already done this,
Speaker 1: but it would be nice to have your help see
Speaker 1: if I missed anything, see what you find, and if
Speaker 1: anything jumps out, feel free to contact us. You can
Speaker 1: reach us by phone at one eight three three m
Speaker 1: I A tips. That's one eight three three six four
Speaker 1: two eight four seven seven again one eight three three
Speaker 1: six four two eight four seven seven, or you can
Speaker 1: reach us via email at tips at i heeart media
Speaker 1: dot com. That's tips T I P s at i
Speaker 1: heeart media dot com. An important note, none of the
Speaker 1: people Jerry Paisley claimed took part in or had knowledge
Speaker 1: of the alleged bombing Joe Banano, Joeya Tarola, Danny Zevnach,
Speaker 1: Jane Fowler, Larry Fowler, or Peggy Baggage were ever charged
Speaker 1: with or convicted of crimes tied to any of Paisley's allegations.
Speaker 1: Peggy Beggatte and Danny Zevinage declined multiple requests for an
Speaker 1: on the record interview. Gene Fowler was unavailable for an interview.
Speaker 1: Joe Banano, Joeya Tarola, and Larry Fowler are dead. Louis Marconi,
Speaker 1: the X cop who was friends with Paisley, also was
Speaker 1: never charged with or convicted of any crime tied to
Speaker 1: any of Paisley's allegations. Marconi declined multiple request to do
Speaker 1: a recorded interview. Ben Boland is our executive producer. Paul
Speaker 1: Decan is our supervising producer. Chris Brown is our assistant producer.
Speaker 1: Seth Nicholas Johnson is our producer. Sam T. Garden is
Speaker 1: our research assistant. And I'm your host and executive producer,
Speaker 1: John Wallzac. You can find me on Twitter at at
Speaker 1: John Wallzac j O n W A l c z
Speaker 1: a K. Footage for this episode was provided by NBC
Speaker 1: Special Thanks to Steve Fowler. Among other things. Steve is
Speaker 1: an author. He didn't ask me to plug his book,
Speaker 1: but I will anyway. It's called Spy Games Inside the
Speaker 1: Murky World of Corporate Espionage. You can find it on Amazon.
Speaker 1: Missing in Alaska is a co production of i Heart
Speaker 1: Media and Greenfork Media