Speaker 1: Find Out and podcast. Okay, so here we are another Monday. UM.
Speaker 1: We just want to say thank you to all of
Speaker 1: our listeners and everyone that commented after last week's episode
Speaker 1: with the wonderful Mickey Guiden and her husband Grant and
Speaker 1: who stayed patient throughout that episode because it was uncomfortable, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and in the same theme of what's going
Speaker 1: on in our world today, I reached out to a
Speaker 1: good buddy of mine who was also a veteran from
Speaker 1: being in the NFL for ten years. UM, African American
Speaker 1: man married to a Caucasian woman with three mixed children.
Speaker 1: And and my buddy Chris Spencer is joining the show
Speaker 1: for it with us, and we're going to kind of
Speaker 1: talk about some of the same similar things and kind
Speaker 1: of here a different perspective, UM from his world. And
Speaker 1: I think what we learned to was just to really listen, UM,
Speaker 1: and we learned a lot from I learned a lot
Speaker 1: from just re listening to that episode and it made
Speaker 1: me real uncomfortable again and I wish I would have
Speaker 1: not interjected at times and it just listened, UM. And
Speaker 1: so I think we learned a lot um about that episode.
Speaker 1: And you know, I've I've received the feedback and the questions,
Speaker 1: and you know, I I just we wanted to continue
Speaker 1: the conversation and we just also want to say thank
Speaker 1: you for finishing the entire episode. And I think it's
Speaker 1: more about, you know, we all kind of realized maybe
Speaker 1: how things could have been said differently, but how we
Speaker 1: acknowledge and look in the mirror and we own our thing.
Speaker 1: I think that was what was so beautiful about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And to your point, it's in the more you know,
Speaker 1: listening back to that episode and the more I've kind
Speaker 1: of listened to people this past week talking on different
Speaker 1: news platforms. Is this stuff isn't a debate. It is
Speaker 1: about listening to one another, you know, and people are
Speaker 1: going to have different opinions or different perspectives, but it's
Speaker 1: not a writer or wrong you know. There there isn't
Speaker 1: a debate around it. And like I, like you said,
Speaker 1: you can't. So with that being said, we're gonna introduce
Speaker 1: my good buddy, Chris Spencer Spence. Welcome to the show, buddy,
Speaker 1: Hey Spence, Hey guys, thanks for having me and I
Speaker 1: love listening to you guys, and you guys done such
Speaker 1: a good job together here and um, very honored that
Speaker 1: you guys reached out to me to join you guys.
Speaker 1: And you know, this has been a very emotional week
Speaker 1: and in a lot of ups and downs with you know,
Speaker 1: even my emotions, particularly growing up in Mississippi, and you know,
Speaker 1: having a lot of these things kind of come back
Speaker 1: to the forefront. So so I'm excited to kind of
Speaker 1: jump in and have a conversation with you guys about it. Absolutely, man,
Speaker 1: we appreciate it. And do you, honey, do you want
Speaker 1: to start with that one question? Yeah? I had someone
Speaker 1: reach out to me and and I I felt really
Speaker 1: bad when I read it because I I felt, um,
Speaker 1: so she was an African American who um one of
Speaker 1: my followers, and she said that me us asking Mickey
Speaker 1: questions was very disrespectful and that it's not Mickey's job
Speaker 1: or any other African American to teach white people about
Speaker 1: their life or to teach them what they've to teach
Speaker 1: us what they've been through. And I felt awful. I
Speaker 1: started crying and I response, I was like, I'm so sorry,
Speaker 1: Like that was not our intention and is so do
Speaker 1: do you take offense for us when we ask you
Speaker 1: know about your experience about your experiences and what we
Speaker 1: can do and you know, um, the history. I guess
Speaker 1: for me, it's it's more around just the awareness and
Speaker 1: and and again, like she said, it's not my job
Speaker 1: to teach everyone. Um, but if there's things that come
Speaker 1: up that there's questions around, you know, it's also you know,
Speaker 1: my job to share my experience. And uh, because as
Speaker 1: I've been fortunate to you know, grow up in small
Speaker 1: area of Mississippi, rural area and see a lot and
Speaker 1: but also fortunate to live outside of that bubble into
Speaker 1: a more fluent bubble. And and so I get to
Speaker 1: see that a lot of people are very unaware of
Speaker 1: other people's feelings. And um, if you don't side with
Speaker 1: their view of things, then um, you're not you're not
Speaker 1: fitting in their mode. And so so I think it's
Speaker 1: when I hear things, I think it's for me, it's
Speaker 1: more of um, hey, guys, look, you may think that
Speaker 1: these things doesn't happen because you never experienced it. But
Speaker 1: I've experienced it my whole life. And you know, and again,
Speaker 1: I have a wife who's called Cajun, and so even her,
Speaker 1: like we're driving down the road and we see I
Speaker 1: see a lot more things than she is used to
Speaker 1: seeing from Confederate flags and things like that that she's
Speaker 1: never had to pay attention to. But I have to
Speaker 1: pay attention to those things, and so um so it's
Speaker 1: not our job to two explain, but it is our
Speaker 1: job to have conversations. And because um, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of good people in the world like you, guys that
Speaker 1: um is trying to do the right things and want
Speaker 1: to do the right things, but just need someone to
Speaker 1: help open their eyes to experience that they never experienced.
Speaker 1: Because if I never lived in influent world, there's things
Speaker 1: that I would have never known, you know, And so
Speaker 1: um so you kind of have to have from a
Speaker 1: black person. You kind of have to be able to
Speaker 1: um understand that there's a lot of people that is
Speaker 1: just just not aware of of it and and heaven
Speaker 1: doesn't have the right know how to have the right
Speaker 1: conversation to start that conversation around racing things like that
Speaker 1: and how they can be more UM effective and in
Speaker 1: the change. So is that difficult? And I'm saying this
Speaker 1: based off just my experience with our interview this past week,
Speaker 1: where being I was guilty of asking a question and
Speaker 1: responding in a way that came across as ignorant, naive,
Speaker 1: and arrogant because I haven't experienced it, because I just
Speaker 1: questioned in my logic as a white male in this
Speaker 1: world through my life experiences, logically didn't really make sense
Speaker 1: to me. So is that difficult being, you know, an
Speaker 1: African American When you know someone who's Caucasia or another
Speaker 1: race says something purely out of innocence because they just
Speaker 1: don't know better, is it really difficult, like not to
Speaker 1: take that personally? Yeah, I mean, I tell you I've
Speaker 1: had to learn how to not take everything personally because, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I've I grew up in Mississippi and went
Speaker 1: to o miss Um, you know, playing in NFL and
Speaker 1: being a star athlete, you you get a pass per
Speaker 1: se like, um, you're not really seen as black, and
Speaker 1: that I think that's one of the most difficult things
Speaker 1: for me, is that you're not really seeing as black.
Speaker 1: So people say things around you that they think that
Speaker 1: you're okay with because they see you as one of them.
Speaker 1: And so, um, I've had to learn how to remove
Speaker 1: myself from certain conversations because you know, being a six four,
Speaker 1: you know, three d pound black man, you know, if
Speaker 1: you you show some type of anger, then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you're known as that guy has been an
Speaker 1: angry guy. And so so I've had to kind of
Speaker 1: train myself of like understanding where conversations are gonna start
Speaker 1: to go where it will make me feel uncomfortable, and
Speaker 1: remove myself before it gets there, because um it, you're
Speaker 1: you're fighting up your battle trying to explain something to
Speaker 1: someone who's never experienced certain things. And and again I'm
Speaker 1: never asking anyone to agree, but also I want people
Speaker 1: to to hear another side and say, Okay, this is real.
Speaker 1: The other side of is real, and it's not just
Speaker 1: about your point of view. You know. It's crazy just
Speaker 1: in this past week, like how much introspection just myself
Speaker 1: I've been able to do, to think about situations and
Speaker 1: without even again purposely being unempathetic, I have been because
Speaker 1: again I haven't had to look through the filter or
Speaker 1: live you know the way that you have, Chris or
Speaker 1: other African Americans. And it's it is, it's just you
Speaker 1: don't know what you don't know until unfortunately, until something
Speaker 1: like this happens, where I really hope just in my
Speaker 1: own eyes, who there? I mean, you know me we've
Speaker 1: been friends a long time. Now. There's not an ounce
Speaker 1: of racism in me right or anything, but the fact
Speaker 1: that even someone like me is starting to see it
Speaker 1: in a different light because of this stuff. Like, I
Speaker 1: really hope this isn't all for nothing, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like I agree, I think, um, you know,
Speaker 1: you starting to see more, um more people are just
Speaker 1: coming off the sideline and not looking at it as
Speaker 1: it's not happening in our community, so we're going to
Speaker 1: turn a blind eye to it. You see more of
Speaker 1: flowing white people actually step it up and and wanting
Speaker 1: to learn. So I think right now black people will
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable with the questions because, um, there are more
Speaker 1: people now who are willing to have a conversation and
Speaker 1: not just sweeping on the road because you know, the
Speaker 1: things that are happening right now are just they're just
Speaker 1: blatant and it's right there in front of you, so
Speaker 1: you can't walk over to step over anymore. And so um,
Speaker 1: so I think right now, you know, it is a
Speaker 1: challenge for black people to be a little bit more understand.
Speaker 1: You know, I hate to stay understanding because we've missed
Speaker 1: understanding for a really long time. But there's gonna be
Speaker 1: more questions that's asked because um, there are people who again,
Speaker 1: when you don't know, you don't know. And so the
Speaker 1: only way to know is to ask a question in
Speaker 1: And my granddad told me, I've taught me a long
Speaker 1: time ago. Um, being in Mississippi, closed mouth don't get fair.
Speaker 1: So you've gotta be okay with people asking certain questions.
Speaker 1: And but the question has to be has to be
Speaker 1: a question that you're genuine wanted to understand and hearing that,
Speaker 1: hearing what the response is and and having some empathy.
Speaker 1: You know, I think in our country right now, with
Speaker 1: lack of empathy of other people's situations and um, and
Speaker 1: not not everyone is is afforded the same opportunities, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's for for me. If I wasn't a you know,
Speaker 1: a stud athlete, again, I don't know what my life
Speaker 1: would have turned out to be. And you know, so
Speaker 1: I've tried to use my platform in the way that um,
Speaker 1: it shines a light on like you know, again, we
Speaker 1: things that you don't ever have to think about, how
Speaker 1: you're you're constant trying to make everyone around you feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: That's not your race, you know, And and because I
Speaker 1: married a Caucasian woman, I have to wear both sides
Speaker 1: of it, where I have to make people around me
Speaker 1: comfortable because they don't know if they can trust me
Speaker 1: or not in my own race. And so so I've
Speaker 1: I've had the ability to see it through a lot
Speaker 1: of different lands, and so so I have a different perspective,
Speaker 1: a little bit of different perspective on it. And and
Speaker 1: I've been able to, you know, have conversation with friends
Speaker 1: over the last several days that you know, it's exhausting,
Speaker 1: but you know, I'm hoping the good comes out of
Speaker 1: it is that people are starting to realize that these
Speaker 1: things happen, and it it doesn't matter what environment you in.
Speaker 1: And you know, just being pulled over your because you're
Speaker 1: driving a nice car, um and household about do you
Speaker 1: own this car? It's hard. Oh yeah, It's happened to
Speaker 1: me tons of times. And you know, and I remember
Speaker 1: just I was telling someone story the other day about
Speaker 1: going to a cigar bar and pulled up in my
Speaker 1: car and and the older gentleman gets out of the
Speaker 1: car and he says to me, Hey, is that your car?
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, that's my car. He's like, well,
Speaker 1: let me guess you must be a musician. I was
Speaker 1: like no, it's like, um, you must be, um an athlete.
Speaker 1: I was like no, you know, because again I don't
Speaker 1: want to tell people what I do. And he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess you must be a drug dealer. And he
Speaker 1: walked up and I was just like, I was like wow, okay.
Speaker 1: So so it's you know, it's a lot of things
Speaker 1: that that that I have to just walk away from
Speaker 1: because again, um, if I react, society is already deem
Speaker 1: me as um the guy who is because of my
Speaker 1: skin tone, in my size is the guy that's is
Speaker 1: going to be the troublemaker. So I have to again
Speaker 1: remove myself. So I get in my car and leave
Speaker 1: it because I know what would happen if the cops
Speaker 1: call um. So um, and even with this pandemic that's
Speaker 1: going on right now, Um, I'm torn even wearing a
Speaker 1: mask and a grocery store a gas astion tonight because um,
Speaker 1: my size again and walking in it's you know, I
Speaker 1: don't want someone to think that I'm there to rob them.
Speaker 1: And so, um, just a lot that you have to
Speaker 1: think about as a as a black person in this country.
Speaker 1: And uh, continue to move forward. And again, not all
Speaker 1: cops are bad, not all white people are racist, but
Speaker 1: there's just a lot of just people just unaware of
Speaker 1: the things that we have to endure and teach our
Speaker 1: kids and and and and living in an environment and
Speaker 1: bubbles that you know, you you you face some of
Speaker 1: those things that like that I'm that I just came
Speaker 1: and that's awful, Like not being able having I just
Speaker 1: that's awful, not being able to feel like you can
Speaker 1: wear a mask and go into a store like you'll
Speaker 1: never like we'll never have to feel that, And that's
Speaker 1: just I'm I'm sorry, and I I remember when I
Speaker 1: first met you, Spence, You're you're hilarious. You know you're
Speaker 1: you're funny. But one of the first things you said
Speaker 1: to me is you said, I'm black Santa. You know
Speaker 1: you're wearing a Santa outfit. And I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: they're I've been times where when we have hung out,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I'm I'm the only black friend,
Speaker 1: and it's almost like the humor are you just are
Speaker 1: you using the humor to almost make is that what
Speaker 1: you're trying to do to make other people comfortable too?
Speaker 1: Even though we were already comfortable with. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely,
Speaker 1: because again, you know, you spend so much of your
Speaker 1: life making everybody help and everyone feel comfortable that you're
Speaker 1: not a threat, um that it just it bleeds over
Speaker 1: into everything in your life, everything you do. And you know,
Speaker 1: even to the fact that I laugh at myself all
Speaker 1: the time every time I go and and uh, I
Speaker 1: get dressed and I'm going to work or if I'm
Speaker 1: you know, going out with friends or something like that,
Speaker 1: I go and grab my loafers because I know that
Speaker 1: when you know, a six four guy walks in the
Speaker 1: building the first day and they look at it's like,
Speaker 1: oh man, this guy is scary looking. And then but
Speaker 1: they looked at him, you know, they see me wearing
Speaker 1: a paral loafers, They're like, okay, he's he should be
Speaker 1: all right, he's you know, like so it's just it's
Speaker 1: just a little things like that that you know, it's
Speaker 1: um that I've kind of done my you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of my life because again, I had a decision
Speaker 1: to make. Do I want to continue to live here
Speaker 1: in Mississippi and struggle like everyone else in my life,
Speaker 1: or do I want to put my head down and
Speaker 1: work and and and put my best foot forward. So
Speaker 1: I can't have a good opportunity in life because I
Speaker 1: knew one day I have kids and I want to
Speaker 1: make sure that they had the best. And and my mom,
Speaker 1: she had five kids, and she worked her butt off
Speaker 1: and and and and doing a lot there and and
Speaker 1: you know, but she's she's always you know, Black people
Speaker 1: just so resilient when it comes to um these type
Speaker 1: of things that happened in our country right now. Is
Speaker 1: that forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness, you know. And you know, even
Speaker 1: growing up without a dad in the home, you know,
Speaker 1: my mom she was the mom and dad, and she
Speaker 1: was always loving on us as like, don't ever hold
Speaker 1: a grudge against anyone, don't hold a grudge against your
Speaker 1: your father, don't hold a brother gets the person that
Speaker 1: looks at you because you look different, and um, just
Speaker 1: find a way to pray for them and love on them.
Speaker 1: And so so I've kind of attacked my life that
Speaker 1: way and um, and it doesn't mean that that I
Speaker 1: have run into certain troubles. I mean, you can imagine
Speaker 1: married to a a Canadian who's blonde, that you get
Speaker 1: pulled over by the cops. The first thing in your
Speaker 1: mind is like, oh my gosh, what do I do here?
Speaker 1: And and the cops is asking her she okay, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's like, well all right, So, UM, so we've
Speaker 1: you know, I've brought some things on myself, but also
Speaker 1: I've you know, I've learned a lot and and and
Speaker 1: but also I just have a heart for people. And
Speaker 1: I think now is the time that we all lend
Speaker 1: our voice to to see a change and do it
Speaker 1: in a genuine way and not just have people, um,
Speaker 1: just continue to justify what's continued to happen right now
Speaker 1: in our country. Yeah, let me ask you this, Chris.
Speaker 1: You have three beautiful kids, beautiful daughter in two and
Speaker 1: two boys. Have you, guys had conversations with them? Have
Speaker 1: they experienced anything thus far? And I guess what are
Speaker 1: you telling them now with all of this going on? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, unfortunately, you know, society to force you to
Speaker 1: have those conversations very early with your kids about um uh,
Speaker 1: the position that we're in as mixed kids and growing
Speaker 1: up in a you know, a predominant white area. Um.
Speaker 1: Society to force you to have those conversations what you
Speaker 1: can and can't do? Um? Just just um, not even
Speaker 1: six months ago when when school was going on, my
Speaker 1: ten year old UM were sitting in the cafeteria with
Speaker 1: his fourth grade class, and the kid said to him, Um,
Speaker 1: if I was the president, I bring back slavery, and
Speaker 1: you would be my first pick. And so um, because
Speaker 1: of what I have taught, what we've taught, I taught
Speaker 1: our kid and and my son, he's he has high
Speaker 1: functional autism, and when he's felt wrong, he is very reactive.
Speaker 1: And because of the lessons and things that we've taught
Speaker 1: that people are gonna look at him different, They're gonna
Speaker 1: say things. Um, he politely got up and went and
Speaker 1: talked to his teacher and told his teaching what happened.
Speaker 1: And and so we are constantly having a conversation with him.
Speaker 1: He's he's going to be a big kid again. My
Speaker 1: wife was an All American volleyball player, and he is
Speaker 1: a very special athlete. And so we're constantly researching and
Speaker 1: thinking about what's going to happen to him in the
Speaker 1: next you know, six years, when he starts driving and
Speaker 1: he he's not a it that again, we're trying to
Speaker 1: give him all the two so he can thrive in
Speaker 1: this world. But right now he's not a kid that, um,
Speaker 1: you could approach that he when he feels he hasn't
Speaker 1: done anything wrong, he will defend himself. He will question,
Speaker 1: he will ask, and so, um, it's one of our
Speaker 1: biggest fears right now in our lives are and even
Speaker 1: to the fact that, hey, Jackson, you can't wear a
Speaker 1: hoodie when you walk into places, you can't go jogging
Speaker 1: down the street with a hoodie. And it's he's like, well, why,
Speaker 1: well this kid can do that. Why can't I do that?
Speaker 1: You know? And so so we've had to have a
Speaker 1: lot of tough conversations with him, and uh and our
Speaker 1: two youngest you know, starting to have those conversations with
Speaker 1: those guys as well, because um, you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: just things you have to do, as is your responsibility
Speaker 1: to keep your kids safe, and the things that we
Speaker 1: have to do right now, I mean particularly um, in
Speaker 1: the time we're in, but you know, just in general,
Speaker 1: as a black person in America, you have to have
Speaker 1: these conversations with your kids because, um, you don't want
Speaker 1: them to be in a position where, um, they're not
Speaker 1: giving themselves the best chance. And again, it still doesn't
Speaker 1: mean you may come out on the other end of it.
Speaker 1: But it's just you're trying to give yourself the best
Speaker 1: opportunity to to avoid a tragic situation. And so, um
Speaker 1: so we've experienced some things with our kids. You know,
Speaker 1: my daughter, she you know, has very big hair, and
Speaker 1: the kids, you know, they don't want to play with
Speaker 1: her because of her hair and her skin tone. And
Speaker 1: so so you know, and and and our kids they're
Speaker 1: they're very resilient, but at the same time you can
Speaker 1: tell they really you know, destroys them, hurt them, you know,
Speaker 1: to their core. And so we we walk this delicate
Speaker 1: balance of teaching our kids what they can and can't do,
Speaker 1: but also that they don't We don't want them hating
Speaker 1: people either. We don't want them growing up to hate
Speaker 1: white people and things like that. And so um so
Speaker 1: we we we we do a lot of conversation, do
Speaker 1: a lot of reading, and talk to a lot of
Speaker 1: therapists and things like that, because, um, those things are traumatizing,
Speaker 1: you know, and you don't think about it. And my
Speaker 1: son he brought it up to me, um, you know,
Speaker 1: two weeks ago, and I thought he had kind of
Speaker 1: forgot about it, you know. And so those things stick
Speaker 1: around for a really long time with you and it
Speaker 1: it goes you know, it'd be something that he remember
Speaker 1: the rest of his life and so um So for
Speaker 1: us as parents, we just keep, you know, just keep
Speaker 1: reiterating and having these conversations with our kids that you know,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't see see color love, we don't
Speaker 1: love everyone. But also, because you have the skin tone,
Speaker 1: here are things, here's a list of things that you
Speaker 1: have to be aware of, the things that you can't do.
Speaker 1: And you can't wait until we're sixteen and start having
Speaker 1: that conversation. So I think these are the kind of
Speaker 1: conversations where it's, like we said, there's no debate, it's
Speaker 1: just listening and understanding someone else's perspective on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: Because when you think about it, it's like, okay, hopefully
Speaker 1: as a whole, as a as a society, as a
Speaker 1: as a species, we can start to be more empathetic
Speaker 1: towards one another period about everything, like you're saying earlier, Spence,
Speaker 1: and then unfortunately there's still gonna be because all it
Speaker 1: takes is that one person, that one police officer, that
Speaker 1: one person that does these acts to set things off again.
Speaker 1: And you know, I saw this quote from Chris Rock
Speaker 1: just recently about all this where he's bad apple is like,
Speaker 1: you know, bad apples. He's like, there should be no
Speaker 1: bad apples, and like law enforcement anything like that. He's
Speaker 1: like a pilot, there's not a bad apple. As a pilot.
Speaker 1: You can't just be like, all right, here's a bad
Speaker 1: apple the plane craft, like, you can't excuse that. So
Speaker 1: I just really appreciated his his somewhat comedic kind of
Speaker 1: you know, outlook on that, because that's true, like that,
Speaker 1: there's there should be a zero tolerance behind all that.
Speaker 1: And I'm just what I'm my fear is is even
Speaker 1: with society hopefully gaining better understanding, there's unfortunately there's still
Speaker 1: going to be those assholes that just set us back again,
Speaker 1: set society back. It's amazing how one person with one
Speaker 1: terrible act can do this to a country, one the greatest,
Speaker 1: arguably the greatest country in the world, and all it
Speaker 1: takes is one thing, and it just goes to show
Speaker 1: how much work we also have to do as human beings. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, the thing about it is is that it's
Speaker 1: not just been that one bad, one bad person, that
Speaker 1: one bad apple. There's been a lot of bad apples
Speaker 1: over years, and it's just now because we've you know,
Speaker 1: um sell phones and body cam and things like that.
Speaker 1: You know, you're starting to see these things happen on
Speaker 1: a daily basis. And so, UM, I think, again, I
Speaker 1: don't have all the answers. I don't know how we
Speaker 1: solve this problem because it's a it's a very complex,
Speaker 1: um issue. But I think, you know, starting with working
Speaker 1: within our community with cops, actually building relationship with people
Speaker 1: within the communities and humanizing these people, humanizing the the
Speaker 1: the kids that are playing in the park that's that's
Speaker 1: not their color. Because again, you you you get thrust
Speaker 1: it into as a cop. You go to school for
Speaker 1: six months and there's no training around mental well being,
Speaker 1: and um, there's a lot of people who have undiagnosed
Speaker 1: issues that you don't know about, and so you have
Speaker 1: to ingratiate yourself in these in these communities in a
Speaker 1: way that you get to know them for who they are.
Speaker 1: And then I think that as we start to do
Speaker 1: this in smaller communities and growing into the bigger cities
Speaker 1: and getting to know people, UM, I think those are
Speaker 1: some of the steps that you know, I think we
Speaker 1: should start looking at you to really make a change
Speaker 1: in and the everybody has to be involved. It can't
Speaker 1: just be a city hall for you know, just all
Speaker 1: the black people voicing their concerns about it. Put you know,
Speaker 1: the white community, the Asian community, all our communities need
Speaker 1: to just come together and be a part of this
Speaker 1: change because everyone around is going to help police it.
Speaker 1: Because now if a cop knows that that it's just
Speaker 1: if it's not just one community that's policing them, it's everybody,
Speaker 1: then they're going to make better decisions and they're gonna
Speaker 1: want to do do better. And so, um, again it's
Speaker 1: a very complicated situation, and I think that uh, we
Speaker 1: have to start within our communities and and and bringing
Speaker 1: human reality to uh to the people that we're seeing
Speaker 1: on TV right now, and um, making it feel that
Speaker 1: making these heaving these guys understand that there is a
Speaker 1: human life just like yours and like actually we are people,
Speaker 1: are not You're not just a robot. You're not a robot.
Speaker 1: We're not robots. And so I had another comment that
Speaker 1: came in that you know, I just wanted to ask
Speaker 1: your opinion. Um, you know, my last episode year, I
Speaker 1: don't have a racist bone in my body. And then
Speaker 1: you know, you said it again today and they said
Speaker 1: everyone is racist. Everyone has a part of them that
Speaker 1: has you know, whether they can still have the purist
Speaker 1: of intentions, But do you believe that every person? Because
Speaker 1: I was. I was talking to my therapist about that,
Speaker 1: and you know, and then she had told me that,
Speaker 1: you know, she's married to a black man, she's got
Speaker 1: biracial kids, and you know that her husband also played
Speaker 1: in the NFL for for ten years, and you know,
Speaker 1: he he was telling her that he experienced racism in
Speaker 1: his own race, where they would tell him that he
Speaker 1: wasn't black enough, or that he wasn't you know, he
Speaker 1: was because he was dating a white girl and he
Speaker 1: didn't wasn't sleeping around with a bunch of people. And
Speaker 1: and then you know, then we started talking about, okay, well,
Speaker 1: you know, is this person's com and then she asked
Speaker 1: me the question, and so we just started this debate
Speaker 1: and I just I'm just curious what your outlook and
Speaker 1: when people say that, well, I think it's um from
Speaker 1: from from me, you say, racist is more of a hate,
Speaker 1: you know, because of your skin tone? Now, is there
Speaker 1: some biggot and things and people I think everybody carries, um,
Speaker 1: some biggert because they don't understand someone else's race. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's what she said, opinions. She said, people can
Speaker 1: have opinions, doesn't make them right. Yeah, right. So that's
Speaker 1: kind of how I feel about it. And I think
Speaker 1: that because you you don't have the ability to experience
Speaker 1: someone else's you know, hardship, that you can form an opinion,
Speaker 1: that it can come across as racist or come across
Speaker 1: as been a biggert. Um you know, but it it
Speaker 1: goes across all race lines. Like I said earlier, you know,
Speaker 1: I had both sides of it, you know, marrying a
Speaker 1: Caucasian woman and not being you know, black enough, and
Speaker 1: you know, being called oreo by my own you know,
Speaker 1: my own race, and um, you know, but again it's you.
Speaker 1: You as a as a person, know who you are,
Speaker 1: and you stand for what is right, is right? And
Speaker 1: if I don't know, I would ask and I would
Speaker 1: talk and have a conversation if and you know, I
Speaker 1: remember back and um, um, when I was at Old
Speaker 1: miss and sitting down with a group of my friends
Speaker 1: and having a female who just who just just did
Speaker 1: know if she can approach me or not? And um,
Speaker 1: and over several times in the you know, in this group,
Speaker 1: his friend group, she found an approached me and and
Speaker 1: she she told me that, you know, I see everyone
Speaker 1: sitting around hanging out with you, laughing and joking, so
Speaker 1: you must be a good person. But I was taught
Speaker 1: something different. I taught all black people, Um, it's not good.
Speaker 1: I mean all of you guys. And so she gained
Speaker 1: a different perspective in life that that has changed and
Speaker 1: shaped to me. And to this day we're still friends.
Speaker 1: And and it's been you know, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of it is taught within your community, but a lot
Speaker 1: of it in the black community has been safety. It's
Speaker 1: been around safety. You know, Like my mom was scared
Speaker 1: for my life when the first time I was going
Speaker 1: to meet my wife's family. She didn't know them, she
Speaker 1: didn't know, you know what, respect because she grew up
Speaker 1: in Mississippi where um, you just didn't do that. And
Speaker 1: so um, so from our side, it's more of that,
Speaker 1: just that's safety concerned about you. So some of them
Speaker 1: may come across, as you know, they don't like you,
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's more of safety for you. But
Speaker 1: then also there's enough good people here that you didn't
Speaker 1: have to go this way and so UM, so it's
Speaker 1: it's it's it's challenging. It's been challenging, but it's um.
Speaker 1: Also you you you learn a lot when when you're
Speaker 1: outside of your conference zone. Man, I love you Spence
Speaker 1: every time I see you like that one time I
Speaker 1: saw you in church. I mean I see you in
Speaker 1: church all time, but you just you know someone's heart.
Speaker 1: You have an amazing heart. Gave me the best hug
Speaker 1: one time he could tell I was down, gave me
Speaker 1: the biggest freaking Spence hug. And you just like I
Speaker 1: just I love you, I love your family. I'm sorry that. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm sorry that you've you've had to experience
Speaker 1: these things and UM yeah it's hard to I don't
Speaker 1: know the words, but I am sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: just appreciate you guys and the work you guys are
Speaker 1: doing that actually getting a position to be uncomfortable, be
Speaker 1: out of your get out of your comfort rown and
Speaker 1: have these conversations and um to be told that what
Speaker 1: you said was UM, dismissive or whatever it may be,
Speaker 1: and then you reflecting on it to coming back and
Speaker 1: and helping other people understand how not to make those
Speaker 1: same mistakes. And you know, and and with the listeners
Speaker 1: that you guys have, I think hopefully hopefully everyone is
Speaker 1: listening and taking notes and hopefully that they're learning something
Speaker 1: that I understand how to have a conversation the right way,
Speaker 1: because the conversation needs to be had. It can't be
Speaker 1: swept on a rug anymore, and it needs to it
Speaker 1: needs to be done in a way where we can
Speaker 1: communicate understand each other's side, because again there's another side
Speaker 1: of it, and that we also have to be able
Speaker 1: to hear the other side of it. It's like, look,
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up around black people, so I don't
Speaker 1: know how to act around black people, you know, so
Speaker 1: you have to be able to hear that side as well,
Speaker 1: and without it getting inflammatory and so um. So we
Speaker 1: all have to come together. And I know it's a
Speaker 1: lot to ask for us as black people to to
Speaker 1: put our anger aside and have these conversations. Um but again,
Speaker 1: right now, anger, the anger and the the deluding and
Speaker 1: all the things that are happening right now in our
Speaker 1: country is not going to solve the problem. It's it's
Speaker 1: the voices that are people who are gonna be genuine
Speaker 1: to step up to the plate and and help with
Speaker 1: this issue, because it's gonna take a lot of people
Speaker 1: to to gain traction and gain ground and solving this
Speaker 1: issue so well spends. We appreciate you taking time out
Speaker 1: of your day. Brother. You know, we love you. We
Speaker 1: love you Catherine and you and your three kids, and
Speaker 1: we just hope that you know, people could continue to
Speaker 1: educate themselves and learn from from your words today. And
Speaker 1: that's why I wanted we wanted to have you on
Speaker 1: here because we knew, we know your heart, we know
Speaker 1: you as a person, and we really hope people are
Speaker 1: able to take something from this, and we know they will. Well. Hey,
Speaker 1: I love you guys and your family, and I'm very
Speaker 1: thankful for you guys to have me on a day
Speaker 1: and um, you know, like I told Mike earlier, it's
Speaker 1: like it's been an emotional week man, and and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not the most eloquent writer, but you know, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to lend my voice to to what's going
Speaker 1: on and um, and know that I'm praying hard that
Speaker 1: you know, we find our way out of this this um,
Speaker 1: this this mess we're in right now. So I love
Speaker 1: you guys. You'll have one for day and thanks for
Speaker 1: having me on. Thanks appreciate your words. All right, guys,
Speaker 1: he's the he's the best, and you know, he was
Speaker 1: the perfect one to have on because, like we said,
Speaker 1: we we know him so well. We know he's able
Speaker 1: to articulate things and um from a great, you know,
Speaker 1: frame of mind. And it's just I really do feel
Speaker 1: like my eyes are opening up more, my heart's opening
Speaker 1: up more, and just comparing like sitting with him this
Speaker 1: interview compared to last week is just like I felt
Speaker 1: like I was assuming things, you know, again, because of
Speaker 1: my own experience. I was stuck in my own experience,
Speaker 1: so I was like assuming. But that's what it is.
Speaker 1: It's like we can't assume. It's just like sitting down
Speaker 1: with somebody else and being like, tell me about your
Speaker 1: life experience each other, tell each other about your life experience. Well,
Speaker 1: it's almost like when Mickey asked you if you wanted
Speaker 1: to be She's like, if you had the choice, would
Speaker 1: you be a black man? And to hear like Spencer
Speaker 1: say the things that he has to, like he can't.
Speaker 1: He feels fearful of his life to wear a mask
Speaker 1: because the Corona it's like which I never even would
Speaker 1: have thought about exactly. But it's not saying that from
Speaker 1: a bad place. Yeah, it's just that's it's like you
Speaker 1: didn't you would never have thought about that, But but
Speaker 1: we didn't know that that would that that's even a
Speaker 1: thing like how like why would because because we're not
Speaker 1: we don't see that way, like we don't see like, well,
Speaker 1: of course Spencer can wear a thing over something like,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't assume, oh, because people are gonna think he's
Speaker 1: breaking in. That's not our first, second, third, no, because
Speaker 1: we don't look through that lens. We don't look through
Speaker 1: that that racist lens. But but it's different when you
Speaker 1: put yourself in that person's shoes, other than just being
Speaker 1: like no, why would we know Spencer? Why did anyone
Speaker 1: think that? And now because of the interview last week,
Speaker 1: like we're able to see it differently and even you know,
Speaker 1: I told you in bad the other day, I felt awful. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I had a conversation with um, one of
Speaker 1: my close stars, Percy, when I was filming Christmas and
Speaker 1: um Mississippi no losing oh yeah, Mississippi. And it was Christmas,
Speaker 1: you know, and Um, and we were having a conversation
Speaker 1: and I didn't listen to him. I really didn't, and
Speaker 1: I you know, I was debating things. And I looked
Speaker 1: back on that conversation in bed after the interview with
Speaker 1: Mickey and I was like, oh my god, I need
Speaker 1: to apologize to him. And I did, and you know,
Speaker 1: he responded. I was like, I'm sorry. I didn't listen.
Speaker 1: I was trying to debate a situation and that was
Speaker 1: not up for debate. I should have listened to your
Speaker 1: experiences and listen to why you kneel, why you do
Speaker 1: these things, and not debate something. And I mean, I
Speaker 1: show it to you. And I was crying. I was,
Speaker 1: I was so upset, and he goes, it's beautiful that
Speaker 1: because of what's going on in the world, you're able
Speaker 1: to remember our conversation and and and have that introspection
Speaker 1: and it's just like, like you said, it's just been
Speaker 1: so eye opening. No, I mean to your point again,
Speaker 1: it's about again, it's not a debate. It's about just
Speaker 1: listening and not forcing your own opinions onto somebody else,
Speaker 1: which I was watching, you know, ESPN this morning. Drew Brees,
Speaker 1: one of the highest most character guys like in the NFL.
Speaker 1: In an interview, he had stated that he would never
Speaker 1: not stand for the national anthem. Where he kind of
Speaker 1: went overboard with his words was he didn't believe anybody
Speaker 1: should not stand for the national anthem because he feels
Speaker 1: that it disrespects the flag, which we which we have
Speaker 1: agreed upon. But now I'm like Neil, but now I
Speaker 1: my thing is I'm actually seeing it less disrespect as
Speaker 1: disrespectful for the flag, which is was my hardest thing
Speaker 1: because you know, I have such a strong support in
Speaker 1: my heart for the military. When I look at the flag,
Speaker 1: that's what it represents for me. And what they're saying
Speaker 1: is Drew is fine with what he said, but it's
Speaker 1: just you can't put that down everybody. You can't make
Speaker 1: that everyone's opinion that I think everybody should stand. Now
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, my person belief, I'm I'm gonna stand.
Speaker 1: I would always stand, But if someone next to me
Speaker 1: doesn't want to, cool and you're not gonna now look
Speaker 1: down on that as disrespectful towards the flag. Now it's
Speaker 1: it's like again all so eye opening. It is, it
Speaker 1: really really is, and this all is just crazy, and
Speaker 1: I just I really hope that, for whatever it's worth,
Speaker 1: with these last two episodes, that our listeners can just
Speaker 1: are more willing to have a conversation, to talk to
Speaker 1: somebody else that they're close to in their life that
Speaker 1: may be a different race, a different religion, different in
Speaker 1: any way, and just say, tell me about your life.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because when I was talking to this with
Speaker 1: my therapist, her son came home crying one day, and
Speaker 1: her thirteen year old son, and you know, she's like,
Speaker 1: what's wrong? And she said, he said, so and so
Speaker 1: won't hang out with me because her parents said my
Speaker 1: skin color is too dark. And you know, she's like,
Speaker 1: it took every part in her to not get, you know, upset,
Speaker 1: because she was trying to control you know, her emotions
Speaker 1: and to make it more of a learning moment for her.
Speaker 1: And she said, do you remember that kid that everyone
Speaker 1: was making fun of that had disabilities at the lunch
Speaker 1: table because no one was sitting with that person and
Speaker 1: you looked, everyone looked at that kid with disability is different.
Speaker 1: How does that How do you think that makes them
Speaker 1: feel like maybe you can empathize with that person. Just
Speaker 1: because they look different doesn't mean that they don't have
Speaker 1: a story and pain and that you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of the she was trying to say, Like,
Speaker 1: it's kind of the same thing where it's like, just
Speaker 1: because we look different, like doesn't mean that we should
Speaker 1: be rude to other people or be mean or you know,
Speaker 1: we should we should be nice to everyone and talk
Speaker 1: to everybody and and include people no matter, you know,
Speaker 1: just like expense his son because he's autistic. It's just
Speaker 1: talk to them. Hey, sit next to that person at
Speaker 1: the lunch table. You know that you and I to
Speaker 1: kind of shift into it in to end this on
Speaker 1: like a lighter note, is you and I have talked about,
Speaker 1: you know, when when Joelie and Chase get older, the
Speaker 1: one thing that that one of the biggest things they
Speaker 1: can do to piss to genuinely piss us off, is
Speaker 1: if they're getting troubled for bullying or doing something like that,
Speaker 1: that we just have no zero tolerance for that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff because you and I have never been those people.
Speaker 1: You know, We've always been welcoming to all kinds, you know,
Speaker 1: ever since we're both kids. But that's just and that's
Speaker 1: just another level of how sad this is that parents
Speaker 1: like Spence and his wife Katherine have to have these
Speaker 1: conversations with their kids at such a young young age,
Speaker 1: Like Spence said, that society forces you to have to
Speaker 1: have them at a young age and that just sucks. Well, guys,
Speaker 1: that's our show for today. Um, see you next Monday.