WEBVTT - Listen to Each Other 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:10.639 Find Out and podcast. Okay, so here we are another Monday. UM. 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:12.360 We just want to say thank you to all of 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:16.640 our listeners and everyone that commented after last week's episode 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:21.040 with the wonderful Mickey Guiden and her husband Grant and 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:26.560 who stayed patient throughout that episode because it was uncomfortable, um, 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.120 you know, and in the same theme of what's going 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:32.479 on in our world today, I reached out to a 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.639 good buddy of mine who was also a veteran from 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.559 being in the NFL for ten years. UM, African American 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.440 man married to a Caucasian woman with three mixed children. 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.080 And and my buddy Chris Spencer is joining the show 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:48.519 for it with us, and we're going to kind of 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.560 talk about some of the same similar things and kind 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:55.400 of here a different perspective, UM from his world. And 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:01.160 I think what we learned to was just to really listen, UM, 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:03.640 and we learned a lot from I learned a lot 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:07.399 from just re listening to that episode and it made 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.039 me real uncomfortable again and I wish I would have 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:15.920 not interjected at times and it just listened, UM. And 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:20.119 so I think we learned a lot um about that episode. 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:25.200 And you know, I've I've received the feedback and the questions, 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:28.160 and you know, I I just we wanted to continue 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:30.280 the conversation and we just also want to say thank 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.920 you for finishing the entire episode. And I think it's 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:38.480 more about, you know, we all kind of realized maybe 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:41.759 how things could have been said differently, but how we 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.920 acknowledge and look in the mirror and we own our thing. 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.720 I think that was what was so beautiful about it. Yeah, 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.520 And to your point, it's in the more you know, 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.560 listening back to that episode and the more I've kind 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.919 of listened to people this past week talking on different 0:01:55.920 --> 0:02:00.360 news platforms. Is this stuff isn't a debate. It is 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.560 about listening to one another, you know, and people are 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.240 going to have different opinions or different perspectives, but it's 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.600 not a writer or wrong you know. There there isn't 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.680 a debate around it. And like I, like you said, 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.840 you can't. So with that being said, we're gonna introduce 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.360 my good buddy, Chris Spencer Spence. Welcome to the show, buddy, 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:24.760 Hey Spence, Hey guys, thanks for having me and I 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:26.799 love listening to you guys, and you guys done such 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.120 a good job together here and um, very honored that 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.440 you guys reached out to me to join you guys. 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.840 And you know, this has been a very emotional week 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.080 and in a lot of ups and downs with you know, 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.880 even my emotions, particularly growing up in Mississippi, and you know, 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:43.400 having a lot of these things kind of come back 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:45.640 to the forefront. So so I'm excited to kind of 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.720 jump in and have a conversation with you guys about it. Absolutely, man, 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:50.600 we appreciate it. And do you, honey, do you want 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.600 to start with that one question? Yeah? I had someone 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.720 reach out to me and and I I felt really 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:01.120 bad when I read it because I I felt, um, 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.480 so she was an African American who um one of 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:08.520 my followers, and she said that me us asking Mickey 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.639 questions was very disrespectful and that it's not Mickey's job 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.480 or any other African American to teach white people about 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.680 their life or to teach them what they've to teach 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.720 us what they've been through. And I felt awful. I 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.040 started crying and I response, I was like, I'm so sorry, 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:30.000 Like that was not our intention and is so do 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.320 do you take offense for us when we ask you 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.760 know about your experience about your experiences and what we 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:43.000 can do and you know, um, the history. I guess 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.200 for me, it's it's more around just the awareness and 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.119 and and again, like she said, it's not my job 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.880 to teach everyone. Um, but if there's things that come 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.400 up that there's questions around, you know, it's also you know, 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:01.680 my job to share my experience. And uh, because as 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.360 I've been fortunate to you know, grow up in small 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.760 area of Mississippi, rural area and see a lot and 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.960 but also fortunate to live outside of that bubble into 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.680 a more fluent bubble. And and so I get to 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.040 see that a lot of people are very unaware of 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:23.080 other people's feelings. And um, if you don't side with 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:28.080 their view of things, then um, you're not you're not 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.960 fitting in their mode. And so so I think it's 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.440 when I hear things, I think it's for me, it's 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:39.440 more of um, hey, guys, look, you may think that 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.680 these things doesn't happen because you never experienced it. But 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.440 I've experienced it my whole life. And you know, and again, 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.960 I have a wife who's called Cajun, and so even her, 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.160 like we're driving down the road and we see I 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.360 see a lot more things than she is used to 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.240 seeing from Confederate flags and things like that that she's 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:58.760 never had to pay attention to. But I have to 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:02.920 pay attention to those things, and so um so it's 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.120 not our job to two explain, but it is our 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.400 job to have conversations. And because um, there's a lot 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.160 of good people in the world like you, guys that 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:13.720 um is trying to do the right things and want 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.640 to do the right things, but just need someone to 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.080 help open their eyes to experience that they never experienced. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.760 Because if I never lived in influent world, there's things 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.520 that I would have never known, you know, And so 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.919 um so you kind of have to have from a 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.320 black person. You kind of have to be able to 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.080 um understand that there's a lot of people that is 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.839 just just not aware of of it and and heaven 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:40.840 doesn't have the right know how to have the right 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:46.200 conversation to start that conversation around racing things like that 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.640 and how they can be more UM effective and in 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:55.240 the change. So is that difficult? And I'm saying this 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.880 based off just my experience with our interview this past week, 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:06.280 where being I was guilty of asking a question and 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:10.719 responding in a way that came across as ignorant, naive, 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:15.080 and arrogant because I haven't experienced it, because I just 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:20.240 questioned in my logic as a white male in this 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:24.760 world through my life experiences, logically didn't really make sense 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:29.000 to me. So is that difficult being, you know, an 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:33.559 African American When you know someone who's Caucasia or another 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:38.240 race says something purely out of innocence because they just 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.080 don't know better, is it really difficult, like not to 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:46.120 take that personally? Yeah, I mean, I tell you I've 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:50.600 had to learn how to not take everything personally because, um, 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.320 you know, I've I grew up in Mississippi and went 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:57.080 to o miss Um, you know, playing in NFL and 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.560 being a star athlete, you you get a pass per 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.680 se like, um, you're not really seen as black, and 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:06.880 that I think that's one of the most difficult things 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.200 for me, is that you're not really seeing as black. 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.800 So people say things around you that they think that 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.680 you're okay with because they see you as one of them. 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.679 And so, um, I've had to learn how to remove 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:22.840 myself from certain conversations because you know, being a six four, 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:26.400 you know, three d pound black man, you know, if 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.240 you you show some type of anger, then all of 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:31.880 a sudden you're known as that guy has been an 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.480 angry guy. And so so I've had to kind of 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.920 train myself of like understanding where conversations are gonna start 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.440 to go where it will make me feel uncomfortable, and 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:45.440 remove myself before it gets there, because um it, you're 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.720 you're fighting up your battle trying to explain something to 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.760 someone who's never experienced certain things. And and again I'm 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.880 never asking anyone to agree, but also I want people 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.080 to to hear another side and say, Okay, this is real. 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.120 The other side of is real, and it's not just 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:06.040 about your point of view. You know. It's crazy just 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:10.520 in this past week, like how much introspection just myself 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.880 I've been able to do, to think about situations and 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:20.480 without even again purposely being unempathetic, I have been because 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.440 again I haven't had to look through the filter or 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:28.360 live you know the way that you have, Chris or 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:33.240 other African Americans. And it's it is, it's just you 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:37.160 don't know what you don't know until unfortunately, until something 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.720 like this happens, where I really hope just in my 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:42.560 own eyes, who there? I mean, you know me we've 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.679 been friends a long time. Now. There's not an ounce 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:48.280 of racism in me right or anything, but the fact 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:50.160 that even someone like me is starting to see it 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.200 in a different light because of this stuff. Like, I 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:57.360 really hope this isn't all for nothing, you know what 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.720 I mean? Like I agree, I think, um, you know, 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.920 you starting to see more, um more people are just 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:06.199 coming off the sideline and not looking at it as 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:08.839 it's not happening in our community, so we're going to 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:10.480 turn a blind eye to it. You see more of 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.199 flowing white people actually step it up and and wanting 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.840 to learn. So I think right now black people will 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:20.000 feel uncomfortable with the questions because, um, there are more 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.160 people now who are willing to have a conversation and 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.040 not just sweeping on the road because you know, the 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.559 things that are happening right now are just they're just 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:29.480 blatant and it's right there in front of you, so 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.000 you can't walk over to step over anymore. And so um, 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.679 so I think right now, you know, it is a 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.120 challenge for black people to be a little bit more understand. 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.280 You know, I hate to stay understanding because we've missed 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.520 understanding for a really long time. But there's gonna be 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:49.320 more questions that's asked because um, there are people who again, 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.600 when you don't know, you don't know. And so the 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:53.720 only way to know is to ask a question in 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.040 And my granddad told me, I've taught me a long 0:09:56.080 --> 0:10:00.240 time ago. Um, being in Mississippi, closed mouth don't get fair. 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.440 So you've gotta be okay with people asking certain questions. 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.560 And but the question has to be has to be 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:11.960 a question that you're genuine wanted to understand and hearing that, 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.080 hearing what the response is and and having some empathy. 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:16.719 You know, I think in our country right now, with 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:20.240 lack of empathy of other people's situations and um, and 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.120 not not everyone is is afforded the same opportunities, you know. 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.480 And it's for for me. If I wasn't a you know, 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.319 a stud athlete, again, I don't know what my life 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:32.520 would have turned out to be. And you know, so 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:36.599 I've tried to use my platform in the way that um, 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.280 it shines a light on like you know, again, we 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.680 things that you don't ever have to think about, how 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.760 you're you're constant trying to make everyone around you feel comfortable. 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.640 That's not your race, you know, And and because I 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.240 married a Caucasian woman, I have to wear both sides 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.080 of it, where I have to make people around me 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.880 comfortable because they don't know if they can trust me 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.360 or not in my own race. And so so I've 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.160 I've had the ability to see it through a lot 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.120 of different lands, and so so I have a different perspective, 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.440 a little bit of different perspective on it. And and 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.360 I've been able to, you know, have conversation with friends 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.200 over the last several days that you know, it's exhausting, 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.480 but you know, I'm hoping the good comes out of 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.520 it is that people are starting to realize that these 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.480 things happen, and it it doesn't matter what environment you in. 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.320 And you know, just being pulled over your because you're 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.320 driving a nice car, um and household about do you 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:36.760 own this car? It's hard. Oh yeah, It's happened to 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.040 me tons of times. And you know, and I remember 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:42.480 just I was telling someone story the other day about 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.320 going to a cigar bar and pulled up in my 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.640 car and and the older gentleman gets out of the 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.800 car and he says to me, Hey, is that your car? 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:54.200 And I was like, yeah, that's my car. He's like, well, 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.480 let me guess you must be a musician. I was 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.959 like no, it's like, um, you must be, um an athlete. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.839 I was like no, you know, because again I don't 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.120 want to tell people what I do. And he was like, oh, 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.720 I guess you must be a drug dealer. And he 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:13.080 walked up and I was just like, I was like wow, okay. 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.840 So so it's you know, it's a lot of things 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:20.520 that that that I have to just walk away from 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:25.280 because again, um, if I react, society is already deem 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.080 me as um the guy who is because of my 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.480 skin tone, in my size is the guy that's is 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.920 going to be the troublemaker. So I have to again 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.160 remove myself. So I get in my car and leave 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.800 it because I know what would happen if the cops 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:45.160 call um. So um, and even with this pandemic that's 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.680 going on right now, Um, I'm torn even wearing a 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.960 mask and a grocery store a gas astion tonight because um, 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.080 my size again and walking in it's you know, I 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.840 don't want someone to think that I'm there to rob them. 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.760 And so, um, just a lot that you have to 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.640 think about as a as a black person in this country. 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.640 And uh, continue to move forward. And again, not all 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.680 cops are bad, not all white people are racist, but 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.280 there's just a lot of just people just unaware of 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.200 the things that we have to endure and teach our 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:22.120 kids and and and and living in an environment and 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.199 bubbles that you know, you you you face some of 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.520 those things that like that I'm that I just came 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.560 and that's awful, Like not being able having I just 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:33.640 that's awful, not being able to feel like you can 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.800 wear a mask and go into a store like you'll 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:42.800 never like we'll never have to feel that, And that's 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:47.080 just I'm I'm sorry, and I I remember when I 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:51.440 first met you, Spence, You're you're hilarious. You know you're 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:53.520 you're funny. But one of the first things you said 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:55.320 to me is you said, I'm black Santa. You know 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:59.400 you're wearing a Santa outfit. And I feel like, you know, 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:01.840 they're I've been times where when we have hung out, 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:03.680 it's like, you know, I'm I'm the only black friend, 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.520 and it's almost like the humor are you just are 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.560 you using the humor to almost make is that what 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.720 you're trying to do to make other people comfortable too? 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:19.320 Even though we were already comfortable with. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.000 because again, you know, you spend so much of your 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.800 life making everybody help and everyone feel comfortable that you're 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.280 not a threat, um that it just it bleeds over 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.560 into everything in your life, everything you do. And you know, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.880 even to the fact that I laugh at myself all 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.240 the time every time I go and and uh, I 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.560 get dressed and I'm going to work or if I'm 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.520 you know, going out with friends or something like that, 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.800 I go and grab my loafers because I know that 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.520 when you know, a six four guy walks in the 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:49.080 building the first day and they look at it's like, 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.000 oh man, this guy is scary looking. And then but 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:52.840 they looked at him, you know, they see me wearing 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.360 a paral loafers, They're like, okay, he's he should be 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:59.440 all right, he's you know, like so it's just it's 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.720 just a little things like that that you know, it's 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.080 um that I've kind of done my you know, a 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.280 lot of my life because again, I had a decision 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:10.920 to make. Do I want to continue to live here 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.400 in Mississippi and struggle like everyone else in my life, 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:16.920 or do I want to put my head down and 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.080 work and and and put my best foot forward. So 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.520 I can't have a good opportunity in life because I 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:24.240 knew one day I have kids and I want to 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.040 make sure that they had the best. And and my mom, 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:28.920 she had five kids, and she worked her butt off 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.160 and and and and doing a lot there and and 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:37.360 you know, but she's she's always you know, Black people 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:41.560 just so resilient when it comes to um these type 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.560 of things that happened in our country right now. Is 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.760 that forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness, you know. And you know, even 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.680 growing up without a dad in the home, you know, 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:51.880 my mom she was the mom and dad, and she 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.240 was always loving on us as like, don't ever hold 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.840 a grudge against anyone, don't hold a grudge against your 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.680 your father, don't hold a brother gets the person that 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.320 looks at you because you look different, and um, just 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.080 find a way to pray for them and love on them. 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.800 And so so I've kind of attacked my life that 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.920 way and um, and it doesn't mean that that I 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:15.200 have run into certain troubles. I mean, you can imagine 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:20.880 married to a a Canadian who's blonde, that you get 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:22.600 pulled over by the cops. The first thing in your 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.280 mind is like, oh my gosh, what do I do here? 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.480 And and the cops is asking her she okay, you know, 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.800 and it's like, well all right, So, UM, so we've 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.600 you know, I've brought some things on myself, but also 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.360 I've you know, I've learned a lot and and and 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.040 but also I just have a heart for people. And 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:47.200 I think now is the time that we all lend 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.400 our voice to to see a change and do it 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:53.440 in a genuine way and not just have people, um, 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.640 just continue to justify what's continued to happen right now 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:13.640 in our country. Yeah, let me ask you this, Chris. 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.720 You have three beautiful kids, beautiful daughter in two and 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:23.520 two boys. Have you, guys had conversations with them? Have 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.560 they experienced anything thus far? And I guess what are 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.120 you telling them now with all of this going on? Well, 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.480 I mean, unfortunately, you know, society to force you to 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.679 have those conversations very early with your kids about um uh, 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.359 the position that we're in as mixed kids and growing 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.800 up in a you know, a predominant white area. Um. 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.159 Society to force you to have those conversations what you 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:53.480 can and can't do? Um? Just just um, not even 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:58.000 six months ago when when school was going on, my 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.199 ten year old UM were sitting in the cafeteria with 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:05.000 his fourth grade class, and the kid said to him, Um, 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.080 if I was the president, I bring back slavery, and 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:13.320 you would be my first pick. And so um, because 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.800 of what I have taught, what we've taught, I taught 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.840 our kid and and my son, he's he has high 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:23.359 functional autism, and when he's felt wrong, he is very reactive. 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.440 And because of the lessons and things that we've taught 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.320 that people are gonna look at him different, They're gonna 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.640 say things. Um, he politely got up and went and 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:33.760 talked to his teacher and told his teaching what happened. 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:38.320 And and so we are constantly having a conversation with him. 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:42.320 He's he's going to be a big kid again. My 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.240 wife was an All American volleyball player, and he is 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:49.800 a very special athlete. And so we're constantly researching and 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.439 thinking about what's going to happen to him in the 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.840 next you know, six years, when he starts driving and 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:02.080 he he's not a it that again, we're trying to 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.639 give him all the two so he can thrive in 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.480 this world. But right now he's not a kid that, um, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.640 you could approach that he when he feels he hasn't 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:17.680 done anything wrong, he will defend himself. He will question, 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.399 he will ask, and so, um, it's one of our 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.240 biggest fears right now in our lives are and even 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:25.959 to the fact that, hey, Jackson, you can't wear a 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:30.000 hoodie when you walk into places, you can't go jogging 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.800 down the street with a hoodie. And it's he's like, well, why, 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.000 well this kid can do that. Why can't I do that? 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.359 You know? And so so we've had to have a 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.359 lot of tough conversations with him, and uh and our 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:42.560 two youngest you know, starting to have those conversations with 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.800 those guys as well, because um, you know, it's it's 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.600 just things you have to do, as is your responsibility 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:51.199 to keep your kids safe, and the things that we 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.600 have to do right now, I mean particularly um, in 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:56.600 the time we're in, but you know, just in general, 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.119 as a black person in America, you have to have 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.480 these conversations with your kids because, um, you don't want 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:06.040 them to be in a position where, um, they're not 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:09.480 giving themselves the best chance. And again, it still doesn't 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:11.479 mean you may come out on the other end of it. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:13.400 But it's just you're trying to give yourself the best 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:18.800 opportunity to to avoid a tragic situation. And so, um 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.000 so we've experienced some things with our kids. You know, 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.480 my daughter, she you know, has very big hair, and 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:25.280 the kids, you know, they don't want to play with 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.439 her because of her hair and her skin tone. And 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.640 so so you know, and and and our kids they're 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.760 they're very resilient, but at the same time you can 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.720 tell they really you know, destroys them, hurt them, you know, 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.080 to their core. And so we we walk this delicate 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.479 balance of teaching our kids what they can and can't do, 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.080 but also that they don't We don't want them hating 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.600 people either. We don't want them growing up to hate 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.080 white people and things like that. And so um so 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.960 we we we we do a lot of conversation, do 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.159 a lot of reading, and talk to a lot of 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:03.040 therapists and things like that, because, um, those things are traumatizing, 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.480 you know, and you don't think about it. And my 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:07.720 son he brought it up to me, um, you know, 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:10.000 two weeks ago, and I thought he had kind of 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.440 forgot about it, you know. And so those things stick 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:14.320 around for a really long time with you and it 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.520 it goes you know, it'd be something that he remember 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:19.840 the rest of his life and so um So for 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:22.840 us as parents, we just keep, you know, just keep 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.399 reiterating and having these conversations with our kids that you know, 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.160 you know, we don't see see color love, we don't 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:35.320 love everyone. But also, because you have the skin tone, 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.159 here are things, here's a list of things that you 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.400 have to be aware of, the things that you can't do. 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:43.280 And you can't wait until we're sixteen and start having 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.320 that conversation. So I think these are the kind of 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:50.560 conversations where it's, like we said, there's no debate, it's 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:56.120 just listening and understanding someone else's perspective on a daily basis. 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:03.000 Because when you think about it, it's like, okay, hopefully 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.760 as a whole, as a as a society, as a 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:09.080 as a species, we can start to be more empathetic 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.480 towards one another period about everything, like you're saying earlier, Spence, 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:17.679 and then unfortunately there's still gonna be because all it 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.720 takes is that one person, that one police officer, that 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:23.840 one person that does these acts to set things off again. 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:29.040 And you know, I saw this quote from Chris Rock 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:32.040