Speaker 1: Yea from the heart of where innovation, money and power
Speaker 1: collive in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology
Speaker 1: with Emily Jay. I'm Emily Chang in New York, and
Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour,
Speaker 1: the end of a Silicon Valley era. Cheryl Samberg is
Speaker 1: stepping down after fourteen years at Facebook and now Meta
Speaker 1: as chief operating officer. I spoke to Samberg in an
Speaker 1: exclusive interview. I made a final decision this weekend, and
Speaker 1: let Mark know. I'm gonna have more on that decision,
Speaker 1: why she's leaving now and what it means for Meta's future.
Speaker 1: And if you want to keep working at Tesla, forget
Speaker 1: about working from home. Elon asks sending an email with
Speaker 1: the subject line remote work is no longer acceptable. We
Speaker 1: will get to that later in the show, But first,
Speaker 1: a quick check of the markets and of course, how
Speaker 1: Meta Shares moved on news of Cheryl Sandberg leaving the
Speaker 1: company after fourteen years. Bloomberg's ad Ludlow here with more
Speaker 1: Big day for the markets, Yeah, big day. Fantastic reporting
Speaker 1: on Cheryl Sandberg and the role that the sell off
Speaker 1: and Meta Shares had, even though it was just in
Speaker 1: the last twenty minutes of the session. You did have
Speaker 1: an impact on the broader markets. You look at the
Speaker 1: SMP five hundred, the NASDAC one hundred, both down by
Speaker 1: seven tenths of a percent, but those declines accelerated as
Speaker 1: we saw Facebook Meta shares sell off more rapidly in
Speaker 1: the last thirty minutes of trading. Definitely the biggest points
Speaker 1: lagged on the NASDAC one hundred, really weighing down that index.
Speaker 1: Another day where yields continue to rise though, which is
Speaker 1: impacting tex stocks. You see the yield in US tenure
Speaker 1: treasury up to two point nine percent, up around six
Speaker 1: basis points, and that that's the move right You're all
Speaker 1: wise on Meta, the parent company of Facebook, at one
Speaker 1: point down four percent, although it did pair some of
Speaker 1: those declines is more details came out about Sandberg's replacement,
Speaker 1: about the fact that Sandberg is going to remain on
Speaker 1: the board despite stepping down the CEO very quickly. One
Speaker 1: corner of the market where very heavy selling took place
Speaker 1: was crypto related stocks. We saw Bitcoin actually through most
Speaker 1: of Wednesday session full back down towards thirty thousand dollars
Speaker 1: per per token, and you see some of the names
Speaker 1: involved in crypto and also blockchain related technologies seeing really
Speaker 1: heavy declines. There was also broader impacts from their sell
Speaker 1: off and met up on the social media landscape and
Speaker 1: the moment that the headlines cross the Bloomberg terminal. You
Speaker 1: saw that instant reaction in Meta shares ticker FB remember
Speaker 1: June thirty is changing to ticker m E t A.
Speaker 1: But Twitter also saw the clients pairing some of those
Speaker 1: losses towards the close. The same story with Snap. This
Speaker 1: is going to have reverberations in the social media landscape
Speaker 1: because of the role that Sandberg was as a player
Speaker 1: in the ad space as well. And all right, thank you.
Speaker 1: That big news of the day Cheryl Samberg leaving Matter
Speaker 1: after fourteen years as chief operating officer. I had a
Speaker 1: chance to speak to her exclusively along with my colleague
Speaker 1: Kurt Wagner about the announcement. She will officially leave the
Speaker 1: company in the fall. She will stay on Meta's board.
Speaker 1: But here's her answer as to why and why not.
Speaker 1: This was a decision I made that I did not
Speaker 1: come too lightly, and it really is about how I
Speaker 1: will spend my time, not how much I believe in
Speaker 1: the company. I believe in the company, but as much
Speaker 1: as I ever did and staying on board, and I
Speaker 1: really have complete confidence in the team Mark and I
Speaker 1: have built. I think they're going to do a great
Speaker 1: job building the future or accompanied us a huge part
Speaker 1: of my life and a huge part of my heart
Speaker 1: for more. I'm joined by Kurt Wagner, who of course
Speaker 1: covers metaphor us, and David Kirkpatrick, founder of Techonomy, author
Speaker 1: of the book The Facebook Effect. Kurt, I'll start with you,
Speaker 1: since you and I both spoke to Cheryl exclusively on
Speaker 1: the phone. You know, we've been preparing for this, you know,
Speaker 1: but I think a small part of me never thought
Speaker 1: it would have been you know, give us a little
Speaker 1: bit more context about why you believe Charyl was making
Speaker 1: this decision and now. Well, she was very clear in
Speaker 1: our conversation Emily that, uh, it felt to me like
Speaker 1: this was a much more personal decision than anything for her.
Speaker 1: You know, she talked about the fact that she's getting
Speaker 1: married this summer. Uh, you know, she's gonna be blending
Speaker 1: her family with her fiance's family. She's obviously very passionate
Speaker 1: about her philanthropy work, and and lean in and so
Speaker 1: those were the types of things that she talked about, right,
Speaker 1: And when you start to take a step back and
Speaker 1: you look, okay, well, some of her biggest responsibilities, for example,
Speaker 1: running all of policy has already been handed off to
Speaker 1: Nick Clegg, right, and so the legal side had already
Speaker 1: been handed off. So you look at kind of, um,
Speaker 1: the trail that led us to hear right and see
Speaker 1: what's happening in her personal life, the fact she's been
Speaker 1: there a long time and that some of her responsibilities
Speaker 1: had been started to hand off to other people. I
Speaker 1: think it felt, um, you know, sort of to your point,
Speaker 1: like we've been asking this for a long time. It
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily shocking. At the same time, it's hard to
Speaker 1: think Facebook without Cheryl sand and we have been asking
Speaker 1: this question for a long time. But the irony is
Speaker 1: she told us that she made the decision over the weekend,
Speaker 1: told Mark over the weekend, and here we are with
Speaker 1: this announcement today. She talked to us a little bit
Speaker 1: about delivering that news to Mark. Take a quick listen
Speaker 1: to what she had to say. I made a final
Speaker 1: decision this weekend, and let Mark know, I think you
Speaker 1: know that the rules are such that once I've made
Speaker 1: a decision, we do not have a lot of time
Speaker 1: to announced. So that's why the timing between decision and
Speaker 1: is so tight. So obviously there are sec disclosure rules
Speaker 1: that require meta slash Facebook to tell the public in
Speaker 1: short order. David Kirkpatrick, who wrote the book on Facebook,
Speaker 1: You know Cheryl well, you have interviewed her many times
Speaker 1: over the years. What do you think. Well, I was
Speaker 1: surprised like everyone else, but I'm like many I had
Speaker 1: expected this really to come quite a bit ago. I
Speaker 1: think for the last few years it's been easy to
Speaker 1: imagine Cheryl wanting to leave Facebook, both because one could
Speaker 1: have the sense that she had sort of lost a
Speaker 1: grip on the issues that she was supposed to be
Speaker 1: responsible for, or she, by some analysis, wasn't taking sufficient
Speaker 1: responsibility for them. Obviously, Mark Zuckerberg has been taking responsibilities
Speaker 1: back away from her in the last year or so.
Speaker 1: The New York Times wrote a piece last summer about
Speaker 1: the split between Zuckerberg and Sandberg following January six, and
Speaker 1: her statements that you know, Facebook was not responsible for that, uh,
Speaker 1: and that resonated poorly with some, but you know, her
Speaker 1: whole history, there is an astonishing history of a miraculously
Speaker 1: effective leader in many many ways. And I think, unfortunately though,
Speaker 1: the end is sort of a sad one, because Facebook's
Speaker 1: reputation has fallen in such a huge way in recent
Speaker 1: years under her leadership, and of course Caryl's Hamburg unfortunately
Speaker 1: became the face of many of the controversies Facebook has weathered.
Speaker 1: But I don't think we can overstate her impact on
Speaker 1: obviously meta but also Silicon Valley culture, business culture. Is
Speaker 1: she built Google's business model as well. Facebook set h
Speaker 1: an inflection point right now. They've got to figure out
Speaker 1: this metaverse thing and a whole new business model. Kurt
Speaker 1: and I also asked her if that had anything to
Speaker 1: do with this, the fact that she's kind of got
Speaker 1: to write a whole new business plan. Take a listen
Speaker 1: to what she had to say. We have a current business,
Speaker 1: which is our current apps connecting customers to businesses, and
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of opportunity there right right now,
Speaker 1: but also over the long run. And then the metaverse
Speaker 1: is a much longer term business opportunity and it's going
Speaker 1: to take some of the same form and that I
Speaker 1: believe we will be your place. And then the metaverse
Speaker 1: will be a place where businesses and consumers connect. But
Speaker 1: I think the exact form that takes is something that
Speaker 1: will be figured out over the next number of you
Speaker 1: a much longer terms. Now there's a team in place
Speaker 1: whose job that is to do now figure out how
Speaker 1: consumers and businesses are going to interact in the metaverse.
Speaker 1: And Kurt, you know, talk to us a little bit
Speaker 1: about the new leadership structure. You've got Hobby Olivan who's
Speaker 1: going to be taking on the role of c o O.
Speaker 1: You've got obviously Nick Clegg who's continuing to run policy
Speaker 1: and communications. You've got Chris Cox, the Chief Product Officer,
Speaker 1: Andrew Bosworth the Chief Technology officer, and of course Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, historically, the way Facebook has been set up
Speaker 1: is that they kept the product side of the house
Speaker 1: under Mark Zuckerbergh and the business side of the house
Speaker 1: under Cheryl. Now, what you'll see from this image right
Speaker 1: here is that a lot of the people up there,
Speaker 1: with the exception of Nick Clegg, are kind of from
Speaker 1: the product side of the house under Mark Zuckerberg. You know,
Speaker 1: Chris Cox is a very good friend, Andrew bos Were
Speaker 1: a very good friend. Hobby and very good friends. So
Speaker 1: these are people who have worked with and for Mark
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg for more than a decade um. There's someone are
Speaker 1: people that he trust very very completely, and there are
Speaker 1: also people who are going to, you know, listen to
Speaker 1: what Mark says and believe in the vision that Mark
Speaker 1: sets forth right and not that Cheryl was at all
Speaker 1: someone who was sitting in the room and banging interest
Speaker 1: and saying, you know, I'm not going to go that direction.
Speaker 1: But my point is sort of that, you know, Mark
Speaker 1: has now uh surrounded himself with people who he very
Speaker 1: much trusts and who have worked for him for a
Speaker 1: very long time. And so when you look at the
Speaker 1: future and you look about what might be uncertain about
Speaker 1: this idea of the metaverse, I don't see the company
Speaker 1: wavering on it because the people, again who are going
Speaker 1: to be talking with him at all of these important
Speaker 1: meetings are people he's known for a very long time.
Speaker 1: And of course there are a lot of powerful women
Speaker 1: at Facebook who continue to work there. But David, what
Speaker 1: do you make of the fact there are no women? Oh,
Speaker 1: it's a bunch of wise man, isn't it, Given that
Speaker 1: you know Cheryl Sandberg, you know, did a lot to
Speaker 1: change the world for for working women. This has been
Speaker 1: a key priority of hers, a key priority in terms
Speaker 1: of evolving Facebook's culture to one that is friendlier two women. Well,
Speaker 1: she served as a symbol of him and success in business.
Speaker 1: There's no question. I mean for most of the last
Speaker 1: fourteen years, certainly for the last maybe ten or eleven years.
Speaker 1: She could have left Facebook at any time and become
Speaker 1: the CEO of any company in the world. And I
Speaker 1: know she was solicited for those kinds of jobs time
Speaker 1: and time again and didn't show interest because she really
Speaker 1: wanted to stay here. Um. I wouldn't be at all surprised. However,
Speaker 1: if she really has been feeling very not only left out,
Speaker 1: but quite critical of a lot of the company's moves,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even be shocked to learn that she was
Speaker 1: not in favor of changing the company name and didn't
Speaker 1: really believe in the metaverse shift, which I frankly think
Speaker 1: is still an unproven and highly questionable shift. Um. She's
Speaker 1: a very rational, grounded business person, and I want to
Speaker 1: reiterate one thing. She created what was probably the best
Speaker 1: business in the history of capitalism for most of her
Speaker 1: time there. The profit per dollar of revenue of Facebook's
Speaker 1: advertising business that she created is greater than the profit
Speaker 1: margin of any public company you can name, and that
Speaker 1: has declined in recent years for a variety of reasons.
Speaker 1: But she really is an astonishingly effective business leader. For
Speaker 1: whatever other flaws we might want to point she is not,
Speaker 1: I've heard many times today one of the most influential
Speaker 1: women in business. She is one of the most influential
Speaker 1: people in business and still is. Yeah, and of course
Speaker 1: now there's this big opig question, what's she going to
Speaker 1: do next. She talked about her philanthropy, She talked about
Speaker 1: her women's advocacy. Take a listen to that portion of
Speaker 1: the conversation. The decision I didn't come too lightly. But
Speaker 1: it's been fourteen years. It's been fourteen years, and I
Speaker 1: want to make more room to do more philanthropically, to
Speaker 1: do more with my foundation. I've definitely not been able
Speaker 1: to do nearly as much as I have wanted to recently.
Speaker 1: It's a really important moment for women, Emily. I know
Speaker 1: you and I have spent a lot of time talking
Speaker 1: about that over the years, but it really feels like
Speaker 1: a very very important moment. When I think more focused
Speaker 1: there would really be important to me personally, and of
Speaker 1: course Kurt and I are immediate next question was will
Speaker 1: you ever go back to business? Will you ever get
Speaker 1: into politics? Take a listen to what she had to say.
Speaker 1: I learned a long time ago and never make any
Speaker 1: predictions about the future. But I think I think a
Speaker 1: lot of that is pretty unlikely. And I'm really I
Speaker 1: really think there's a lot, hopefully that I can do
Speaker 1: with my foundations. And still on propically, Kurt, do you
Speaker 1: believe it? Is it unlikely? Are We're going to see
Speaker 1: a reincarnation of Cheryl Sandberg in business or politics. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna fall on the side of believing what
Speaker 1: she said there, simply because I'm not sure that going back.
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly she doesn't need the money, right, So
Speaker 1: going back into business simply for her own personal wealth
Speaker 1: or anything like that doesn't really it's not Sarah doesn't
Speaker 1: make much sense. And I think that, you know, similar
Speaker 1: to Mark Zuckerberg, similar to a lot of these um
Speaker 1: billionaire tech founders and successful executives we've seen, their legacy
Speaker 1: is going to be left probably in other ways, right,
Speaker 1: and so it's gonna be hard for her to go
Speaker 1: do anything outside of Facebook that's going to be more
Speaker 1: important than what she's already done on Facebook on the
Speaker 1: business side, and now I think she probably sees an
Speaker 1: opportunity to uh, you know, solidify herself as someone who
Speaker 1: is truly a champion of of women's issues, and, as
Speaker 1: she pointed out in that interview with Assembly, kind of
Speaker 1: making that her top priority. I guess if I had
Speaker 1: to choose, I would I would assume maybe that's the
Speaker 1: direction she goes. I I would agree. She did joke
Speaker 1: to us that it was the honor and privilege of
Speaker 1: a lifetime, but it was not the most manageable job
Speaker 1: of a lifetime. Kurt Wagner, thank you for your reporting
Speaker 1: on this. David. I want to ask you one last question.
Speaker 1: Do you believe do you believe her? Well? Is this
Speaker 1: is this officially Cheryl Sander moving into philanthropy or she's
Speaker 1: a multibillionaire. She can do whatever she wants, and she
Speaker 1: will certainly be effective as a philanthropist. I'm sure it
Speaker 1: might actually be a role that suits her better. I
Speaker 1: know she really has been interested in politics for a
Speaker 1: long time. I think for many years she really had
Speaker 1: hoped that that would be her eventual direction. My own
Speaker 1: opinion is that the way that the Facebook story has
Speaker 1: evolved in recent years has made it extremely difficult for
Speaker 1: her to move into Democratic Party politics, which is certainly
Speaker 1: what she would do, because Facebook is a essentially a
Speaker 1: persona on grata in the Democratic Party. Facebook has been
Speaker 1: shown to have so many social harms, and she is
Speaker 1: to some extent responsible for not having taken enough action
Speaker 1: on what about an appointed office versus an elected That's
Speaker 1: a possibility, I think if she you know, there was
Speaker 1: talk that she's been talked about as a Treasury secretary
Speaker 1: in the past. She worked in that office under Larry Summers.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she'd be a good one, but I still
Speaker 1: think even for a role like that, it would be
Speaker 1: very controversial because of Facebook's history. Indeed, all right, well,
Speaker 1: we will of course be watching, and we should mention
Speaker 1: she is. They're transitioning the team over the summer. Her
Speaker 1: direct reports will be transitioned over the summer. She will
Speaker 1: leave officially in the fall, and of course she will
Speaker 1: remain on Facebook's board. David Kirpatrick, Javier is a very
Speaker 1: impressive guy to who I know very well. He's been
Speaker 1: running growth and we know Facebook and that is still growing,
Speaker 1: and he's been there all this challenge pretty much as
Speaker 1: long as she has or longer. All right, well, David,
Speaker 1: thank you. I'm glad you're here today. It's good to
Speaker 1: see you here in person in New York. And of
Speaker 1: course we're gonna have much more on this throughout the show.
Speaker 1: Venture capital funding has surged in recent years, but not
Speaker 1: all founders are treated equally. Last year, companies founded only
Speaker 1: by women now just over two of total capital invested
Speaker 1: in venture back startups in the US. Still, VC funding
Speaker 1: for female founded or co founded companies has been trending
Speaker 1: up saw the creation of several women led funds, incubators,
Speaker 1: and new companies. Here with me to talk about this
Speaker 1: and more. A new doogal founding partner of the Female
Speaker 1: Founder's Fund and new Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Good to see you're in person. Thank you for having
Speaker 1: I have to ask you before you begin, what you
Speaker 1: make of Cheryl Sandberg leaving Facebook, given her impact on
Speaker 1: the tech industry and the conversation about women work and
Speaker 1: having a seat at the table. Yeah, well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think you know, it's obviously breaking news, so um,
Speaker 1: not much to comment beyond the fact that I think,
Speaker 1: you know, she's obviously been an incredibly influential women women
Speaker 1: excuse me in tech and has you know, a massive network,
Speaker 1: has made tremendous impact, and really excited to see what
Speaker 1: she does next to you. In my conversation with her,
Speaker 1: she talked about this being kind of an inflection point
Speaker 1: for women women's advocacy, She's going to spend more time
Speaker 1: on that. There's been concerns about women backsliding in the pandemic.
Speaker 1: How do you think that translates to women founders and
Speaker 1: what they're facing in the venture capital industry right now?
Speaker 1: You know, to typically when belts tighten and markets get tumultuous,
Speaker 1: investors go back to what they know, which is male founders. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think, um, we're kind of in the early
Speaker 1: stages of UM what one would call it downturn. I
Speaker 1: think looking back to UM, it was an incredible year
Speaker 1: for female founders. Overall, record number of I p o
Speaker 1: s led by female founders. In fact, I think in
Speaker 1: the history of the stock market there have been twenty
Speaker 1: female lad UM I p o s and last year
Speaker 1: alone there were six, So I think a lot to
Speaker 1: celebrate there. We had a lot of growth rounds that
Speaker 1: were led by female founders, particularly in digital health care. UM.
Speaker 1: So I think we're starting to see some really interesting lamentum. So,
Speaker 1: how are you thinking about deploying capital at this time? So,
Speaker 1: I think as a seed investor, we sit in an
Speaker 1: interesting position in that, um, you know, the markets have
Speaker 1: been largely overvalued and we have the opportunity to sit
Speaker 1: back and really look at valuations coming down and be
Speaker 1: paid shint. I think you know, in the last year,
Speaker 1: you at some point had you know, two to three
Speaker 1: days to get back to an entrepreneur to a founder,
Speaker 1: and it will be it will be interesting to kind
Speaker 1: of reset back to what I think was more of
Speaker 1: the norm, um, you know, in in the coming year.
Speaker 1: What's your advice to founders right now? I mean we've
Speaker 1: heard batten down the hatches, slower burn you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think I think all of the above.
Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, even the best performing companies
Speaker 1: are going to have a hard time raising capital, and
Speaker 1: if they do, you know, they probably will not get
Speaker 1: the valuations they want. And so in light of that,
Speaker 1: the advice that we've been giving is really too to
Speaker 1: your point, you know, look at your burn, focus on
Speaker 1: you know, that path to profitability and and really try
Speaker 1: to weather the storm. You started your own fund back
Speaker 1: in what are some lessons you've learned along the way?
Speaker 1: So I think, UM, you know, back when I started
Speaker 1: the funden the idea of investing in female founders was
Speaker 1: really quite novel and UM, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: along the way, there's been so much development in this space,
Speaker 1: and I think so much recognition for the fact that
Speaker 1: it is important to invest in diverse founders and that
Speaker 1: that diversity pays off when it comes to you know,
Speaker 1: some of the recent exits and UM. You know I
Speaker 1: p O s that I mentioned earlier, and what do
Speaker 1: you think the the the industries of the future are
Speaker 1: the bets of the future? I mean, are you looking
Speaker 1: for the next Facebook? It's a great question. I think.
Speaker 1: You know, a space that we've been seeing a lot
Speaker 1: of activity in UM is digital health, and I think
Speaker 1: that's largely due to what we saw with the pandemic,
Speaker 1: where you know, a lot of Americans had to deal
Speaker 1: with healthcare in a very different way. And you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's pediatrics, whether it's UM you know, your primary
Speaker 1: care physician, women's health, all of these categories, UM. You know,
Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of interesting disruption and innovation and primarily,
Speaker 1: you know, quite frankly, from female founders. All right, on
Speaker 1: a dugal female founders fund. Love the name. Thank you
Speaker 1: for joining us, great to have you here, Thanks for
Speaker 1: having studio. All right, Coming up, we're gonna have much
Speaker 1: more on Cheryl Sandberg's exit from Meta. While some controversy
Speaker 1: around Elon Musk, who would have thought and workers returning
Speaker 1: to the office. This is Bloomberg, Well, the world's riches
Speaker 1: man has had it with working from home. In two
Speaker 1: mammals to Tesla employees, Elon Musk said he wants to
Speaker 1: make sure certain stuff are in a real Tesla office
Speaker 1: at least forty hours a week, joining us to talk
Speaker 1: about the latest Bloomberg's bloodlow ed. What exactly did must
Speaker 1: have to say? So two memos to two different trenches
Speaker 1: of staff, but basically saying for those that want to
Speaker 1: work from home, they need to be in the office
Speaker 1: for a minimum of forty hours a week. As you said,
Speaker 1: but he stipulated, this isn't just a remote or pseudo office.
Speaker 1: This has to be a main Tesla office. The second
Speaker 1: memo to a broader number of tests or employees clarified
Speaker 1: his position, and he basically said there maybe tech companies
Speaker 1: out there and that have a hybrid working model, they're
Speaker 1: fully remote, but he didn't see any of those companies
Speaker 1: innovating or doing anything new on their products. So he
Speaker 1: is basically saying that he wants to see employees back
Speaker 1: in the office full time. Raises a lot of questions
Speaker 1: about Twitter as well. What if Elon Musk's purchase of
Speaker 1: Twitter goes through, because you remember, back in May, Jack Dorsey,
Speaker 1: when he was still CEO, instituted an indefinite work from
Speaker 1: home or work on a hybrid model policy. Even when
Speaker 1: Twitter's officers we opened in September of last year, people
Speaker 1: continue to work remotely. So that's been the kind of
Speaker 1: big question as a follow up to that. But it's
Speaker 1: very clear Elon mask Worlds really just man CEO of
Speaker 1: Tesla and SpaceX, is not a big fan of return
Speaker 1: to the office. Indeed, Jack Dorsey was one of the first,
Speaker 1: if not the first, executive I believe, to tell workers
Speaker 1: they could go work from home permanently. Okay, I'd love
Speaker 1: the story. We're going to continue to follow their thank you.
Speaker 1: The decision I didn't come too lightly but it's been
Speaker 1: fourteen years. It's been fourteen years, and I want to
Speaker 1: make more room to do more philanthropically, to do more
Speaker 1: with my foundation. I've definitely not been able to do
Speaker 1: nearly as much as I have wanted to recently. It's
Speaker 1: a really important moment for women, Emily. I know you
Speaker 1: and I have spent a lot of time talking about
Speaker 1: that over the years, but it really feels like a
Speaker 1: very very important moment when I think more focused there
Speaker 1: would really be important to me personally. I made a
Speaker 1: final decision this weekend, and let Mark know, I think
Speaker 1: you know that the rules are such that once I've
Speaker 1: made a decision, we do not have a lot of
Speaker 1: times announced. So that's why the timing between decisions and
Speaker 1: is so tight. This was a decision I made that
Speaker 1: I did not come too lightly, and it really is
Speaker 1: about how I will spend my time, not how much
Speaker 1: I believe in the company. I believe in the company
Speaker 1: because as much as I ever did and staying on board,
Speaker 1: and I really have complete confidence in the team Mark
Speaker 1: and I have built. I think they're going to do
Speaker 1: a great job building the future or a company that's
Speaker 1: a huge part of my life and a huge part
Speaker 1: of my heart. We have a current business, which is
Speaker 1: our current apps connecting customers to businesses, and I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of opportunity there right right now, but
Speaker 1: also over the long run. And then the Metaverse is
Speaker 1: a much longer term business opportunity, and it's going to
Speaker 1: take some of the same form and that I believe
Speaker 1: we will be your place, and then the metaverse will
Speaker 1: be a place where businesses and consumers connect. But I
Speaker 1: think the exact form that takes in something that will
Speaker 1: be figured out over the next number of you a
Speaker 1: much longer term. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology and Emily
Speaker 1: Chang in New York. That was part of my exclusive
Speaker 1: interview with Cheryl Samberg along with my colleague Kurt Wagner,
Speaker 1: who announced today that she is leaving Meta after fourteen
Speaker 1: years as the company's chief operating officer. Samberg now fifty
Speaker 1: two years old. She joined Facebook at this when she
Speaker 1: was thirty eight and Mark Zuckerberg was just twenty three.
Speaker 1: She'll officially leave the company in the fall, but she'll
Speaker 1: stay on Meta's board. For more on what this all means,
Speaker 1: I'm joined now by Bloomberg Sarah Fryer, who of course,
Speaker 1: covers technology and social media for us, along with Stephen Levy,
Speaker 1: Editor at Large at Wired and author of the book
Speaker 1: Facebook The Inside Story. Stephen, you heard Cheryl's words. They're
Speaker 1: her explanation for why and why Now. What's your read
Speaker 1: on this? Well? I think you know. The surprise is
Speaker 1: why she stayed so long. Uh. You know a lot
Speaker 1: of people have thought that it would have happened earlier.
Speaker 1: It's not a big surprise that she's going on to
Speaker 1: something else. No one can say she cut and run
Speaker 1: when Facebook run into troubles because she wrote it out
Speaker 1: long pass the time some people thought she would. Uh.
Speaker 1: And once the company changed its name and refocused on
Speaker 1: the metaverse, you could tell o'clock was tacking Sarah. What's
Speaker 1: your take? I mean, you know, in that interview she
Speaker 1: she talks about how you know, we asked her, is
Speaker 1: she gonna go back and a businesses? Are we going
Speaker 1: to see her in politics someday? She said, all of
Speaker 1: that is very unlikely. She really wants this time. She
Speaker 1: wants to work on her philanthropy and still never say never,
Speaker 1: but you know, not something that we should expect to
Speaker 1: see her do. What do you think, Well, I think
Speaker 1: you know, she wanted to leave Facebook in in a
Speaker 1: good place likely and and it's really been a difficult
Speaker 1: time to find a good place to leave Facebook. It's
Speaker 1: a company in constant turmoil. They've they've had multiple scandals,
Speaker 1: some of them you know, Cheryl Sanber contributed to through
Speaker 1: the company's grow at all costs and you know, advertising business,
Speaker 1: user growth, and then solving the problems after the fact.
Speaker 1: She she did try hard to make sure that UM
Speaker 1: Facebook could change. It's the way the public sees it,
Speaker 1: the regulators could see it differently. But this is a
Speaker 1: company that you know, is just such a big, powerful
Speaker 1: force and continues to have issues. And so there was
Speaker 1: no bright horizon moment for her to leave Facebook. She
Speaker 1: just had to make the call. And I think I
Speaker 1: think what she was saying about the transition to the
Speaker 1: metaverse that gives a little bit of a clean moment
Speaker 1: for her to say, like, listen, I I built Facebook
Speaker 1: up to a nearly one billion dollar business. It's time
Speaker 1: for the next era to begin. And that's not really
Speaker 1: the era that she needs to be a part of.
Speaker 1: UM Well, let's talk about that next era, Stephen. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously Cheryl Sandberg did UM for better for worse, become
Speaker 1: the face of many of Facebook's controversies. I imagine it
Speaker 1: was difficult to find that good time to leave. And
Speaker 1: yet she is inarguably one of the most influential people
Speaker 1: in business today. How would you assess or explain her legacy.
Speaker 1: It's a complicated one. She came there with you know,
Speaker 1: you pointed out Mark was only twenty three. Um, she was,
Speaker 1: you know, thirty eight. She built a big business at Google. Um.
Speaker 1: And she changed Facebook's culture when she got there. Uh,
Speaker 1: it was still very much a dorm room flavored uh,
Speaker 1: kind of grow engineering based culture, and she knew how
Speaker 1: to build it out to something bigger, something more welcoming
Speaker 1: to a more diverse group of employees. Um. She built
Speaker 1: up the business, the bad business. Um. You know you
Speaker 1: could say that, uh, maybe point a finger at her
Speaker 1: and saying the way she built it up was to
Speaker 1: build it up on personal data and target advertising. That
Speaker 1: was something that Cheryl really nurtured and delivered in a
Speaker 1: spectacular fashion to advertisers. Um. And then she was also
Speaker 1: in charge of the policy aspect of Facebook. And again
Speaker 1: that's where they run into a lot of trouble. And
Speaker 1: uh again you see it's interesting they had a few
Speaker 1: months ago. Uh, that part of it was shifted to
Speaker 1: Nick Clegg, who took over that part of the company's role,
Speaker 1: which previously had been Charles Domain. And Nick reports directly
Speaker 1: to Mark. Uh. And so before that whole policy thing,
Speaker 1: the Washington d C thing, which you think Cheryl would
Speaker 1: be so adept that because she came from d C
Speaker 1: chief and treasury, Uh, that went to someone else. So
Speaker 1: again one way for her to ease herself out of
Speaker 1: the company. So let's take a look at the next
Speaker 1: generation of Facebook leaders. Javi ol Evan will take over
Speaker 1: s c o. Oh, but the role is is being
Speaker 1: somewhat reconstituted. He won't oversee all of the things that
Speaker 1: that Cheryl did in her iteration of chief operating Officer.
Speaker 1: Obviously there's Nick Clegg, Chris Cox in product Andrew Bosworth,
Speaker 1: chief Technology Officer. Talked to us Sarah about the team
Speaker 1: that Cheryl Sandberg leaves behind. Many of these long time
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg lieutenants who've been at the company for years. Well,
Speaker 1: the one person that people might not know very well
Speaker 1: as Holly Hobby, who came out of the growth organization. Uh.
Speaker 1: He was a lieutenant to uh Chamath Polly Hapatilla, who
Speaker 1: was you know they growth at all costs lieutenant to Zuckerberg,
Speaker 1: who really drove the company sometimes in dicey ways, uh
Speaker 1: as it grew and he gained trust and really has
Speaker 1: been very quietly one of the very top executives Facebook
Speaker 1: slash Meta UM, and I think you're going to learn
Speaker 1: more about him now. Of course, Andrew Bosworth is again
Speaker 1: someone who's been with the company, uh since two thousand five.
Speaker 1: I think, Um, he helped launch the news feed. That
Speaker 1: that's how bar back he goes. UM. You know. Also,
Speaker 1: you didn't have any women in unfortunately in that line there,
Speaker 1: but Naomi glight Um is someone who is in that
Speaker 1: inner circle UM, who again one of the earliest Facebook employees.
Speaker 1: So it's sort of striking that now as Meta faces,
Speaker 1: it's next big focus is next challenge of the metaverse.
Speaker 1: The people behind it are people who have been with
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg since almost the very beginning. Speaking of women
Speaker 1: at Facebook, a number of you know, powerful women who
Speaker 1: came up in Facebook have left quite frankly, Stephen Caroline Everson,
Speaker 1: uh Fiji Simo, who is now the CEO of instat
Speaker 1: card I actually had a chance to sit down with
Speaker 1: Fiji to ask her about Facebook's future this pivot to
Speaker 1: the metaverse her thought on whether or not this was
Speaker 1: a good idea. Take a listen to what she had
Speaker 1: to say. I personally don't love spending a ton of
Speaker 1: time in gel I am incredibly emotion sick, which would
Speaker 1: have been a very big problems Facebook to guilt in
Speaker 1: metal else. You know, it's interesting, Stephen, I wonder if
Speaker 1: Chryl had a moment of like, you know, I've got
Speaker 1: to rewrite a whole new business plan, write a whole
Speaker 1: new business plan, and how this all is going to
Speaker 1: work in the metaverse now, and that may be a
Speaker 1: part of her just didn't want to do that, Stephen,
Speaker 1: what do you think? You know? I agree when I
Speaker 1: when I saw that the comped changed its name, I thought, finally,
Speaker 1: Charole has kind of an exit rant. If you look
Speaker 1: at the history of Cheryl, I think she wanted to
Speaker 1: leave originally after the company went public, but that really
Speaker 1: didn't go very well um and it would have been
Speaker 1: a bad note to leave on. So she said, Okay,
Speaker 1: let me wait till it all comes together. And then
Speaker 1: the next horrible thing that happened was her husband died,
Speaker 1: and you know, um, that wasn't you know, a good
Speaker 1: time you know to leave. It wasn't a good time
Speaker 1: for her personally, and you know, she leaned on Mark
Speaker 1: and the company to get her through that. And then
Speaker 1: came the election and all the troubles then, so you know,
Speaker 1: she was thwarted every turn. When the senatorial post came
Speaker 1: up in California, a lot of people thought, well, that
Speaker 1: was something that Charytle was waiting for us. She wanted
Speaker 1: to go into politics, but again she was in no
Speaker 1: position to do that. And also a lot of people
Speaker 1: thought that the person who took over that uh that
Speaker 1: seat was you know, in line for that again. And
Speaker 1: so Sheryl has had some pretty bad luck in terms
Speaker 1: of an exit ramp from Facebook, which she only really
Speaker 1: wanted to stay for five years. That was her original
Speaker 1: prem and she told me that today that she thought
Speaker 1: this was a five year gig and here she is
Speaker 1: fourteen years later. I mean, Sarah, what is your level
Speaker 1: of of confidence in that the team that's left um behind,
Speaker 1: if you will, or the team that's still there that's
Speaker 1: going to have to come up with this business plan
Speaker 1: for the Metaverse? And obviously all the products that are
Speaker 1: going to make it come to life. Well, always, when
Speaker 1: I think about Facebook and what Facebook is really invented
Speaker 1: over the course of its history, it's it's this this
Speaker 1: sort of very methodical strategy of growing, growing in ways
Speaker 1: that you know a lot of other companies wouldn't have
Speaker 1: thought of, like making sure that there is no barrier
Speaker 1: to somebody using your product and have your Olivan, who
Speaker 1: is going to be the new CEO of Facebook, was
Speaker 1: really the person spearheading that at Facebook for many years.
Speaker 1: He was in charge of growth, in charge of making
Speaker 1: sure that Facebook resonated in new markets. And I think
Speaker 1: that the fact that he's in the CEO of position,
Speaker 1: it just means that Facebook needs the betaverse to work.
Speaker 1: That is their next bet um. Because of the decay
Speaker 1: of their legacy platform, Facebook is is um stagnating in
Speaker 1: terms of user growth. Instagram is struggling to keep up
Speaker 1: with TikTok. This is a really rough time for Facebook
Speaker 1: to not have a sure bet for its next ten years.
Speaker 1: And by putting Xavier in the driver's seat their operations, um,
Speaker 1: they really are saying, like we want this to work. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's certainly interesting to think about the pivot of the
Speaker 1: metaverse as an off ramp. If you will, UM for
Speaker 1: Ryl Sandberg to leave, as you know, I'm sure she's
Speaker 1: been been planning to do at least eventually, Um. Bloomberg sarafire.
Speaker 1: Thank you Stephen Levy at our large at Wired, author
Speaker 1: of Facebook The Inside Story. If you want to learn
Speaker 1: more about how we got here, Thank you both. It
Speaker 1: is time now for our crypto report. And Bitcoin seemed
Speaker 1: to be on the right track for a decoupling with
Speaker 1: US stocks, but that was short lived, as the largest
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency felt for the first time in five trading sessions.
Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Katie Gray felt here in New York for more
Speaker 1: going to see you in person. Thrilling to see you
Speaker 1: so thrilling d that's the word. Um. What happened? It's
Speaker 1: not good that correlation with big tech. When it comes
Speaker 1: to bitcoin, it's back in a big way. That's actually
Speaker 1: bad news for bitcoin because of the the NASA's dropped for
Speaker 1: two straight days. It's down about one percent so far
Speaker 1: this week. And if you look at what that's meant
Speaker 1: for Bitcoin, basically under a lot of pressure, dropped almost
Speaker 1: seven percent on Wednesday alone. It's bad below that thirty
Speaker 1: dollar per coin level. It still hasn't broken out on
Speaker 1: the low end of its rain but Emily, it's just
Speaker 1: it can't get it off the ground. So what should
Speaker 1: we expect to happen tomorrow? It's a good question. I've
Speaker 1: actually been taking a look at the pro SHARE's Bitcoin
Speaker 1: strategy e t F. The ticker there is BITTO. If
Speaker 1: you look at the it's put to call ratio, it's
Speaker 1: close to a record high. That ratio right now stands
Speaker 1: at about one point six. And if you pair that
Speaker 1: with what we're seeing in short interest, about ten percent
Speaker 1: of BIDO shares outstanding are sold short at the moment
Speaker 1: you add that all together, Basically it tells you that
Speaker 1: even though BITTO and Bitcoin down well over thirty percent
Speaker 1: so far this year, trainers preparing for more losses ahead.
Speaker 1: Now I gotta tie this back to Cheryl Sandberg somehow,
Speaker 1: because that is the big news of the day. Let's
Speaker 1: not forget that Facebook had a big cryptocurrency project Libra.
Speaker 1: David Marcus, who had come over from PayPal, ended up
Speaker 1: running that. He's no longer at the company either, is
Speaker 1: there you know, how much hope is there for Facebook
Speaker 1: to have a role in the crypto space. It feels
Speaker 1: like this company really has a torture relationship when it
Speaker 1: comes to the entire crypto ecosystem. Like you said, I
Speaker 1: mean d M never really got off the ground. It
Speaker 1: took a long time for that to unravel. And now
Speaker 1: obviously Facebook now Meta took a hard pivot into the metaverse,
Speaker 1: that digital world. I haven't heard a good definition for
Speaker 1: it yet, but in any case, they're investing a ton
Speaker 1: of money there. But we heard from Zuckerberg just late
Speaker 1: last month saying that it's going to be a long
Speaker 1: path to return on investment in the metaverse. That Meta
Speaker 1: is going to lose significant money in the metaverse for
Speaker 1: the next three to five years. But like Sarah Fire
Speaker 1: said just in the last segment, Facebook needs the metaverse
Speaker 1: to work, but that could take a while. And Data
Speaker 1: now there's a whole different team of people that's going
Speaker 1: to be in charge of figuring out the business model
Speaker 1: for that without Cheryl Sandberg. Okay, Katie Graffeld, thank you.
Speaker 1: Coming up, what Cheryl Sandberg's departure means for women leaders
Speaker 1: in tech at large, We're going to talk about that
Speaker 1: and more with Girls Who Code founder Rushma Shao Johnny. Next,
Speaker 1: this is Boomberg. The decision I didn't come too lightly,
Speaker 1: but it's been fourteen years. It's been fourteen years, and
Speaker 1: I want to make more room to do more philanthropically,
Speaker 1: to do more with my foundation. I've definitely not been
Speaker 1: able to do nearly as much as I have wanted
Speaker 1: to recently. It's a really important moment for women, Emily.
Speaker 1: I know you and I have spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time talking about that over the years, but it really
Speaker 1: feels like a very very important moment when I think
Speaker 1: more focused there would really be important to me personally.
Speaker 1: I want to come back to today's new Cherryl Samberg
Speaker 1: leaving Meta, bringing rest Michelle Johnny, founder of Girls Who Code,
Speaker 1: author of pay Up, a book on the current model
Speaker 1: of the workplace how it needs to change for the
Speaker 1: next generation. Obviously, Ryl Samberg was part of the Converse
Speaker 1: station that I'm sure got you there, and I know
Speaker 1: she was a supporter of Girls Who Code. I have
Speaker 1: to ask for your reaction to this news that after
Speaker 1: a really long time, Cheryl's Amberg is leaving Facebook. I'm
Speaker 1: excited for her. You know, Cheryl was an early supporter
Speaker 1: of Girls Who code. We used to actually have every
Speaker 1: year these town halls, you know, where her and I
Speaker 1: would have a conversation with you know, hundreds of our students.
Speaker 1: And she opened up Facebook, you know, to this movement,
Speaker 1: and I think she's absolutely left right. I mean, women
Speaker 1: are in crisis. You know, Rovi Wade is about to
Speaker 1: be overturned any minute now, and so we need leadership
Speaker 1: and we need her leadership. So I'm excited to see
Speaker 1: what she does. So do you make us a controversy
Speaker 1: around her leadership? I mean not everybody agreed with len In? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I don't agree with all of len In.
Speaker 1: You know, I wrote a book pay Up saying but
Speaker 1: you know it was revolutionary at that moment, and things
Speaker 1: have changed. I think she would agree with that that
Speaker 1: we need a different type of fight in workplaces. We
Speaker 1: have to stop trying to fix women and we have
Speaker 1: to fix the structure. But the reality is is you
Speaker 1: have to applaud how far she got to and what
Speaker 1: that means for women. You know, we always say you
Speaker 1: cannot be what you cannot see, and there are so
Speaker 1: many young girls who are looking at her as a
Speaker 1: CEO of Facebook and saying, well, maybe I can do
Speaker 1: that too. A very high ranking female executive in Silicon
Speaker 1: Valley told me, you cannot lean in if the door
Speaker 1: is nailed shut. Is this is the door still nailed
Speaker 1: shut for a lot of people, or has has it
Speaker 1: cracked open? No, it's nailed shut. You know it. It
Speaker 1: is definitely nail shut. I mean, look at the state
Speaker 1: of affairs right now. We are literally living in a
Speaker 1: country that is forcing birth, you know, for when with that,
Speaker 1: in a country that has the highest infant mortality rate,
Speaker 1: no paid leave, no affordable childcare, where our kids are
Speaker 1: being shot in schools. I mean the number one you know,
Speaker 1: the number one reason why kids die is guns. And so, yes,
Speaker 1: the door is nailed shut and we have to force
Speaker 1: it open. Uh. And there's ever been a moment to
Speaker 1: call for a revolution, to call for you know, thinking
Speaker 1: about things differently. You know, we just launched a coalition
Speaker 1: to make sure that child care is a benefit that
Speaker 1: every single company offers. You and I have talked about
Speaker 1: women backsliding in the pandemic and the fear that women
Speaker 1: will come out of this in more shape than how
Speaker 1: they entered. Um Elon Musk is now saying I can't
Speaker 1: work from home. I'm curious what your your reaction is
Speaker 1: to his memo. Um, given that this thought of hybrid work,
Speaker 1: there's a thought that it's good for women. Yeah, I mean, listen,
Speaker 1: I get it. People want people back in the office.
Speaker 1: But people can't come back in the office unless they
Speaker 1: don't have the support. So, you know, we just did
Speaker 1: a survey with McKinsey, and half of the women that
Speaker 1: we surveyed left because childcare is unaffordable and unreliable. Today,
Speaker 1: half of our day care centers are still shut down.
Speaker 1: You know, we still have new variants. You know, we
Speaker 1: still have instability at schools. I mean, most people, you know,
Speaker 1: pay more for their their childcare then they pay for
Speaker 1: their mortgages, their largest cost center. So if we want
Speaker 1: people to come back to to work, we have to
Speaker 1: think about new policies to help them come back to work,
Speaker 1: which means paying for their childcare, you know, which means
Speaker 1: having paid leave, which means thinking about how you do
Speaker 1: design hybrid workplace to make it possible for people to
Speaker 1: fulfill the roles that they're fad And it's not just moms,
Speaker 1: it's dad's too, you know. I talked to so many
Speaker 1: fathers to say I don't want to commute two and
Speaker 1: a half hours, you know, to work every day there
Speaker 1: and back and see my kid for five minutes a day.
Speaker 1: I don't want to live like that. You also have
Speaker 1: a very unique view into how well our young people
Speaker 1: and girls especially are being prepared for their future. Are
Speaker 1: they ready? Are they getting new tools to succeed in
Speaker 1: in in the world that we're still faced with today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting. I gave Yale commencement speech last week,
Speaker 1: and I've been talking to young people and asking them, like,
Speaker 1: you know, how do you feel about this moment? You know,
Speaker 1: do you feel like you want to change the world?
Speaker 1: And when I talk to so many as they see
Speaker 1: in the past two years, it set us back. We're exhausted,
Speaker 1: we're tired, our mental health is drained. You know. We
Speaker 1: look at the adults in the room and they are
Speaker 1: not leading us, and so we are not inspired. We
Speaker 1: do not feel like we're ready to basically solve COVID climate.
Speaker 1: So we need to do something different. So in thirty seconds,
Speaker 1: what's the good news? Inspire us? Because you're out there
Speaker 1: doing this good work, and clearly women are inspiring. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the good news is we're piste off as hell and
Speaker 1: this rage is going to take us to power. Um, well, uh,
Speaker 1: what do you How significant do you think it is
Speaker 1: that Cheryl Sandburg will not be leading on the business side,
Speaker 1: but you know, might be more influential on the policy side.
Speaker 1: I think we need. I mean, listen, I I give
Speaker 1: so much gratitude to Melinda Gates and mckenzy basis. I mean,
Speaker 1: Melinda has single handedly funded the movement that I'm a
Speaker 1: part of, you know, in terms of making sure that
Speaker 1: we have paid leaven affordable childcare. So we need more women,
Speaker 1: more philanthropists, more women who are seating this work. Amen,
Speaker 1: Rushmashe Johnny, girls who code so good to see you here. Good,
Speaker 1: thank you. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be right back here in New York tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I've got a great lineup of guests there. That's all
Speaker 1: for now. Stay tuned to Bloomberg