WEBVTT - Racial Reconciliation is Solvable 0:00:15.076 --> 0:00:21.596 Pushkin. I'm at Higgins and this is Solvable. Interviews with 0:00:21.676 --> 0:00:25.436 the world's most innovative thinkers working to solve the world's 0:00:25.476 --> 0:00:30.036 biggest problems. My name is Mitchelandrum from New Orleans, Louisiana, 0:00:30.316 --> 0:00:34.796 and I am trying to solve the problem of racial 0:00:34.876 --> 0:00:38.276 reconciliation in the United States of America. Mitch Landry was 0:00:38.316 --> 0:00:41.876 sworn in as mayor of New Orleans in two and ten, 0:00:42.396 --> 0:00:45.356 back when the city was on the verge of bankruptcy. 0:00:45.876 --> 0:00:49.396 It was five years after the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, 0:00:49.476 --> 0:00:52.196 and it was the midst of the BP oil spill. 0:00:53.516 --> 0:00:57.876 In twenty sixteen, he was voted America's top turnaround mayor 0:00:58.356 --> 0:01:01.676 in a survey of mayors that was compiled by Politico, 0:01:02.516 --> 0:01:07.796 and Mitch gained national prominence for his powerful decision to 0:01:07.796 --> 0:01:12.676 take down four Confederate monuments in New Orleans. Mitch has 0:01:12.676 --> 0:01:15.636 written about the entire process in his New York Times 0:01:15.676 --> 0:01:19.476 best selling book, It's called In the Shadow of Statues, 0:01:19.916 --> 0:01:23.796 A White Southerner Confronts History, and in it he recalled 0:01:23.876 --> 0:01:28.676 his personal journey confronting racism, and he also tackles the 0:01:28.756 --> 0:01:34.036 broader history of slavery, race relations and institutional inequalities that 0:01:34.236 --> 0:01:39.076 still plague America today. You'll hear more in this conversation 0:01:39.196 --> 0:01:42.596 with Malcolm Gladwell, and you'll also hear how things are 0:01:42.636 --> 0:01:47.396 developing with his organization. It's called the e Pluribus Unum Fund, 0:01:47.956 --> 0:01:51.116 and he founded it to bring people together across the 0:01:51.156 --> 0:01:56.036 American South around the issues of race, equity, economic opportunity, 0:01:56.236 --> 0:02:00.556 and violence. And he does that by convening diverse community 0:02:00.596 --> 0:02:04.756 members to listen to and learn from one another. What 0:02:04.916 --> 0:02:09.436 is it about this problem that attracted you? One of 0:02:09.476 --> 0:02:13.316 my thirty years of experience, sixteen years as a legislator, 0:02:14.316 --> 0:02:16.396 six as lieutenant government, eight as the mayor of the 0:02:16.436 --> 0:02:20.396 City of New Orleans. Being in a position of having 0:02:20.396 --> 0:02:24.396 to solve problems, it became fairly evident to me that 0:02:24.436 --> 0:02:27.396 it just got much much more difficult because people could 0:02:27.396 --> 0:02:31.396 be torn apart when they were hungry or cold or 0:02:31.476 --> 0:02:34.836 afraid by race, and it made it impossible for people 0:02:34.876 --> 0:02:38.916 to work together. You see this actually permeating not just 0:02:38.956 --> 0:02:41.676 the United States of America now, but the rest of 0:02:41.676 --> 0:02:45.196 the world, and it's manifesting itself not only a long 0:02:45.356 --> 0:02:51.116 race but class ideology, nation of origin, sexual orientation, all 0:02:51.116 --> 0:02:53.356 of those things, and I think that's exactly wrong. I 0:02:53.356 --> 0:02:57.516 think we ought to in the United States be purposeful 0:02:57.556 --> 0:03:00.836 like they were in Germany and in South Africa, to 0:03:00.916 --> 0:03:03.516 try to heal a lot of the divisions that continue 0:03:03.596 --> 0:03:05.876 today that slow us down and stop us from seeing 0:03:05.956 --> 0:03:10.516 finding common ground that matters and news as a very 0:03:10.556 --> 0:03:16.516 interesting and distinctive racial history different from other areas in 0:03:16.516 --> 0:03:20.956 the American South. What was unique about New Orleans which 0:03:21.036 --> 0:03:24.596 was different from some of the other slaveholding areas, was 0:03:24.596 --> 0:03:27.636 that we were a port city through the Mississippi River. 0:03:27.716 --> 0:03:29.636 Right now in New Orleans south of our city, we 0:03:29.676 --> 0:03:32.676 have cumulatively one of the largest ports in the world. 0:03:32.716 --> 0:03:35.716 And as a consequence, many different kinds of peoples and 0:03:35.796 --> 0:03:38.036 goods came from all over the world. And if you're 0:03:38.036 --> 0:03:41.396 in a port city, it is by nature diverse, and 0:03:41.476 --> 0:03:43.956 there were free people of color. Of course, the slave 0:03:43.996 --> 0:03:47.436 trade was as robust as it was anywhere else, and 0:03:47.516 --> 0:03:50.076 a lot of the economy, actually all of the economy 0:03:50.076 --> 0:03:54.036 pre Civil War, was as a result of the individuals 0:03:54.316 --> 0:03:56.596 being forced to work in the fields and to produce 0:03:56.676 --> 0:03:59.636 cotton and sugar cane and things of that nature, which 0:03:59.676 --> 0:04:02.076 formed the basis of the economy New Orleans back in 0:04:02.076 --> 0:04:04.316 the day was one of the largest cities. As a 0:04:04.396 --> 0:04:07.996 matter of fact, in nineteen sixty if you jump forward 0:04:08.036 --> 0:04:10.836 many many years, New Orleans was bigger at that time 0:04:10.836 --> 0:04:13.556 than Atlanta and Houston. What I'm interested in, so you 0:04:14.556 --> 0:04:19.036 in kind of understanding the racial landscape of New Orleans 0:04:19.036 --> 0:04:21.596 when you take over His Mary in twenty ten, it 0:04:21.836 --> 0:04:27.156 is you've You've inherited it quite a It's a mess. Yeah. 0:04:27.236 --> 0:04:30.876 Were you aware of just how messy it was when 0:04:30.876 --> 0:04:34.116 you took up? Oh yeah, yeah, no illusions. The reason 0:04:34.116 --> 0:04:37.356 why I went walked me through how one goes about 0:04:38.156 --> 0:04:41.836 repairing the kind of psyche of a city. We had 0:04:41.916 --> 0:04:45.076 lots going on at once. The city was on the 0:04:45.156 --> 0:04:48.596 verge of bankruptcy. When I ran for office, I ran 0:04:49.556 --> 0:04:52.396 honestly on asking people to make a sacrifice so they 0:04:52.956 --> 0:04:55.396 the people of New Orleans, we were hurting so badly 0:04:55.476 --> 0:04:56.956 that you know, we were kind of at the point 0:04:56.956 --> 0:04:59.236 where we would try anything. And I knew that in 0:04:59.316 --> 0:05:02.036 order to stabilize the city, I had to stabilize the finances. 0:05:02.676 --> 0:05:04.676 So I mean I kind of went about, you know, 0:05:04.756 --> 0:05:07.596 finding a great team of people that were completely committed. 0:05:07.596 --> 0:05:10.716 And when I say completely, I mean twenty four seven, 0:05:10.756 --> 0:05:14.796 three sixty five, and what started to happen was New 0:05:14.916 --> 0:05:17.996 Orleans got themselves into it, just a giving spirit. You know, 0:05:18.036 --> 0:05:20.196 the whole world gasps, but the possibility that we would 0:05:20.236 --> 0:05:21.836 be lost, and that gave us a kind of a 0:05:21.876 --> 0:05:25.276 renewed sense of pride. And when I came in, my 0:05:25.356 --> 0:05:27.476 job was to try to corral all of that energy 0:05:27.476 --> 0:05:29.276 and moving in a positive direction. And one of the 0:05:29.276 --> 0:05:31.516 ways you do that is that you touched skin in 0:05:31.516 --> 0:05:33.516 the skin every day with as many people as you can, 0:05:33.596 --> 0:05:36.036 so they can see you, touch you, feel you, hear you, 0:05:36.196 --> 0:05:39.116 understand you, and then hopefully begin to trust you. So 0:05:39.156 --> 0:05:42.036 I started having a lot of community meetings, and a 0:05:42.036 --> 0:05:45.676 community meeting looked something like me walking into a room 0:05:45.676 --> 0:05:49.316 of a thousand people who are frustrated and angry in 0:05:49.516 --> 0:05:52.556 the neighborhoods that have hit the hardest, and making sure 0:05:52.596 --> 0:05:56.156 that me personally as well as my entire team was 0:05:56.196 --> 0:05:58.836 there and available to listen to the community here what 0:05:58.876 --> 0:06:01.276 it is they had to say, and then somehow try 0:06:01.316 --> 0:06:05.036 to form it into a coherent governing policy where we 0:06:05.076 --> 0:06:08.676 started to put money where it needed to go. It 0:06:08.756 --> 0:06:12.636 wasn't all honky dowry. We had lots of starts and stops. 0:06:12.636 --> 0:06:16.916 The police department had a zero level of confidence in 0:06:16.956 --> 0:06:21.516 the African American community. But I invited the Justice Department 0:06:21.556 --> 0:06:23.436 to come in and to work with us. There was 0:06:23.436 --> 0:06:25.676 a sense of openness and a real sense of commitment 0:06:25.676 --> 0:06:27.236 that we were going to do what is necessary to 0:06:27.316 --> 0:06:30.036 change the city. And then people helped. I mean people, 0:06:30.076 --> 0:06:32.916 everybody just kind of got their hands really dirty. We 0:06:32.916 --> 0:06:36.596 were in such a desperate situation that people actually stopped 0:06:37.516 --> 0:06:40.556 seeing the differences between us. We were in such bad 0:06:40.636 --> 0:06:44.396 shape that we all realized that we had to stop 0:06:44.436 --> 0:06:48.196 fighting and we had to choose common ground. The police 0:06:48.236 --> 0:06:51.516 aspect of this is an interesting one. So you have 0:06:51.596 --> 0:06:54.436 a you inherit a situation where you say, the level 0:06:54.476 --> 0:06:58.596 of trust between poorer communities and the copses as low 0:06:58.596 --> 0:07:03.916 as it can go. That is a profound problem in 0:07:03.956 --> 0:07:09.636 a city where the police voices becomingly needed from the community. Well, 0:07:09.676 --> 0:07:13.436 I remember Katrina was August twenty nine, two thousand and five, 0:07:13.956 --> 0:07:17.596 and some police officers after Katrina left their post. Now, 0:07:17.636 --> 0:07:22.036 most most police officers, first responders were miraculous after Katrina. 0:07:22.076 --> 0:07:24.036 I need to be clear about that. It was an 0:07:24.076 --> 0:07:27.196 incredible thing to watch everybody lifting everybody up, but we 0:07:27.276 --> 0:07:31.116 had some very dark moments. Historically, the police department in 0:07:31.156 --> 0:07:36.116 New Orleans from at least nineteen ninety six through until 0:07:36.196 --> 0:07:40.036 I took office, the police department had deteriorated in terms 0:07:40.036 --> 0:07:43.396 of its relationship with the community pre and post Katrina. 0:07:43.836 --> 0:07:47.116 So I knew that the only way that we could 0:07:47.156 --> 0:07:50.596 heal is by, as me the leader of the city, 0:07:50.676 --> 0:07:54.196 acknowledging that we had a problem, committing to change it, 0:07:54.596 --> 0:07:57.756 and then actually inviting the Justice Department to come in. 0:07:57.836 --> 0:08:00.876 That was an acknowledgement that we were going to do 0:08:01.036 --> 0:08:04.756 everything we needed to do to reorganize the police department 0:08:04.916 --> 0:08:07.636 and to make it go in the right direction. Now, 0:08:08.036 --> 0:08:10.636 it was a rocky road with the Justice Department because 0:08:10.756 --> 0:08:13.316 they live in Washington, they don't live on the ground, 0:08:13.356 --> 0:08:15.556 and sometimes people that are not on the ground miss 0:08:16.396 --> 0:08:18.436 essential components. But it was the right thing to do. 0:08:18.516 --> 0:08:20.676 It sent the right message to the community, and then 0:08:20.756 --> 0:08:23.836 we asked the community to actually help us. I created 0:08:23.876 --> 0:08:26.316 a community advisory board to actually help me hire my 0:08:26.436 --> 0:08:29.956 first police chief, and they made recommendations to me, and 0:08:30.276 --> 0:08:34.196 I actually took the recommendation. The first recommendation. So you 0:08:34.356 --> 0:08:37.916 do that, you build trust over time, you keep putting 0:08:38.236 --> 0:08:40.276 resources where you say they need to be, you keep 0:08:40.356 --> 0:08:43.676 demanding some level of accountability. And then we were the 0:08:43.756 --> 0:08:46.436 first department in the country to put body cameras on 0:08:46.596 --> 0:08:49.876 police officers because I thought it was important for them 0:08:49.916 --> 0:08:52.676 to be real transparency. So now when there was an 0:08:52.716 --> 0:08:56.836 officer involved shooting, the community knew exactly what happened because 0:08:56.916 --> 0:09:00.476 we released those tapes within a reasonably short period of time, 0:09:00.596 --> 0:09:03.636 pending some kind of veto by the district attorney or 0:09:03.716 --> 0:09:05.956 the US attorney about whether it was going to compromise 0:09:06.036 --> 0:09:10.316 the prosecution in a particular case. And those little things 0:09:10.436 --> 0:09:13.596 began to restore levels of credibility. But if you do 0:09:13.716 --> 0:09:15.196 that over and over and over again, and you began 0:09:15.276 --> 0:09:17.916 to walk the walk and not just talk to talk, 0:09:18.036 --> 0:09:21.356 the public starts to say we're good to go with 0:09:21.436 --> 0:09:23.116 what you're doing. And on top of that, we actually 0:09:23.156 --> 0:09:26.636 started to reduce the population in the prison and moving 0:09:26.756 --> 0:09:28.956 very far ahead a criminal justice reform, and we built 0:09:28.996 --> 0:09:31.876 a new use study center. So we were operating on 0:09:31.956 --> 0:09:34.876 a bunch of different fronts. And I had a massive 0:09:34.916 --> 0:09:38.596 initiative to reduce murdered death on the streets of New Orleans, 0:09:38.636 --> 0:09:40.836 which I talked about every day. So the accumulation of 0:09:40.916 --> 0:09:44.636 all those things I think gave the entire community confidence 0:09:44.676 --> 0:09:48.556 that we were goodhearted and right minded about that approach, 0:09:48.596 --> 0:09:51.676 and it helped a lot. Wow, how long, but too 0:09:51.756 --> 0:09:55.116 the time you took office, how many years in did 0:09:55.196 --> 0:09:58.316 you feel like you had turned the corner with that? Well, 0:09:58.356 --> 0:10:00.556 you never feel like you're doing well enough. But I 0:10:00.676 --> 0:10:03.956 think it took us about three, three or four years. Yeah, 0:10:04.036 --> 0:10:06.076 I mean it was a bit. It was a bit, 0:10:06.116 --> 0:10:07.876 and it was a long. It was a real deep dig. 0:10:07.996 --> 0:10:09.636 You were a two term there, I was to term. 0:10:09.676 --> 0:10:11.436 I serve for eight years. If you had been a 0:10:11.516 --> 0:10:16.236 one term mayor, would it have worked, That's a good question. 0:10:16.716 --> 0:10:20.556 Probably probably not. You know. One of the actually challenges 0:10:20.596 --> 0:10:23.076 that we had was Mark Morio, who is known he's 0:10:23.116 --> 0:10:25.516 now the head of the National Urban League, was the 0:10:25.556 --> 0:10:27.076 mayor of the city back in the nineties, and he 0:10:27.156 --> 0:10:29.516 turned the police department around when he was there, and 0:10:29.676 --> 0:10:32.596 after he left it went back to where the lowest point. 0:10:32.756 --> 0:10:35.276 So when I took over, one of the things that 0:10:35.356 --> 0:10:36.916 was rolling around in my mind is that we had 0:10:36.956 --> 0:10:39.316 tried this before, but we hadn't never institutionalized and the 0:10:39.356 --> 0:10:41.956 consent decree would be necessary to do that. The city 0:10:42.036 --> 0:10:44.476 actually is still under the supervision of a federal consent 0:10:44.556 --> 0:10:47.956 degree because the federal judges they won't let you out 0:10:47.996 --> 0:10:51.076 of it until they now see the institutional rules and 0:10:51.156 --> 0:10:53.516 regulations put in place, which we were very aggressive about. 0:10:53.556 --> 0:10:56.356 So I expected in a short time it'll be done 0:10:56.796 --> 0:10:59.316 and the institutional changes. But you have to be vigilant 0:10:59.356 --> 0:11:02.276 every day. Everything that we talked about, you've got to 0:11:02.316 --> 0:11:05.076 repeat every day over and over again. Walked me through 0:11:05.196 --> 0:11:09.396 the whole issue of the statutes and what you learn 0:11:09.516 --> 0:11:12.076 from that, particularly what you learn from that for the 0:11:12.156 --> 0:11:14.756 book you're doing. Now. What I learned is that we're 0:11:14.796 --> 0:11:17.996 not as far long as i'd hope would be, and 0:11:18.116 --> 0:11:21.876 that saddens me as the mayor of the city. Remember, 0:11:21.916 --> 0:11:24.236 we're in the midst of the recovery. We're rebuilding the 0:11:24.316 --> 0:11:29.356 whole city. The physical spaces of city inform how the 0:11:29.516 --> 0:11:32.036 city lives and breathes and works and interacts with each 0:11:32.076 --> 0:11:35.676 other every day, and it's really important, and many mayors 0:11:35.716 --> 0:11:37.436 in America spend a lot of time with this, and 0:11:37.596 --> 0:11:40.956 I was too. I had the benefit of a blank 0:11:41.076 --> 0:11:44.396 or landscape because of this terrible catastrophe and so I 0:11:44.476 --> 0:11:46.476 had a responsibility to make sure that it was built 0:11:46.516 --> 0:11:49.396 back that right way, and so public spaces were in 0:11:49.556 --> 0:11:54.476 my mind and big picture. Remember we were rebuilding hospital, schools, 0:11:54.596 --> 0:11:57.916 We're building a brand new airport, rebuilding the riverfront. A 0:11:58.036 --> 0:12:00.756 lot of opportunity and hence a lot of responsibility. And 0:12:00.876 --> 0:12:04.476 so when I was doing that, I'd always had this 0:12:04.636 --> 0:12:08.676 fetish for circles. I loved circles. I loved the circles 0:12:08.716 --> 0:12:11.276 and washing you see. I loved them in Europe and 0:12:11.676 --> 0:12:17.436 New Orleans being such rich history and architecture, it always 0:12:17.476 --> 0:12:20.156 thought it was curious that we never had more circles. 0:12:20.196 --> 0:12:23.356 We only have one, and it's the most prominent spot 0:12:23.396 --> 0:12:25.276 in the city of New Orleans. It is the space 0:12:26.276 --> 0:12:28.756 that all the autogra parades right on. It's on the 0:12:28.836 --> 0:12:31.516 main thoroughfare in the city, and there's a statue there 0:12:31.516 --> 0:12:34.516 of Roberty Lee, who is the general that led the 0:12:34.636 --> 0:12:38.196 Confederacy in an effort to destroy the United States of America. 0:12:38.636 --> 0:12:40.756 And so as we were building the city and I 0:12:40.876 --> 0:12:43.596 was thinking about how to keep the city still energized 0:12:44.556 --> 0:12:47.996 to keep doing really big things. I wanted to use 0:12:48.036 --> 0:12:51.556 our three hundred anniversary as a framework for the city 0:12:51.716 --> 0:12:56.756 to finish its reconstruction projects and to leave a legacy, 0:12:56.916 --> 0:12:58.916 much like a city would leave a legacy after they 0:12:59.036 --> 0:13:02.676 built for the Olympics or built for the World Cup. 0:13:03.316 --> 0:13:06.516 So I had asked went mor Salis, who was a 0:13:06.636 --> 0:13:09.596 childhood friend of mine, who I considered to be besides 0:13:09.676 --> 0:13:12.236 being a great musician, I know that the horn and 0:13:12.316 --> 0:13:17.596 the music is just his meeting his messages democracy and 0:13:17.796 --> 0:13:21.556 freedom in history. And I said, when I want you 0:13:21.596 --> 0:13:24.116 to help me curate the three hundred anniversary, which is 0:13:24.116 --> 0:13:27.756 in twenty eighteen. This conversation took place in twenty fourteen 0:13:28.116 --> 0:13:31.076 because we had a long window. And he said, I'll 0:13:31.076 --> 0:13:32.956 do that, but I want you to think about something. 0:13:33.156 --> 0:13:34.476 And I said what he goes, I would like you 0:13:34.516 --> 0:13:37.556 to think about taking down that Confederate monument. Well, it 0:13:37.756 --> 0:13:41.436 really never occurred to me that I would take that 0:13:41.596 --> 0:13:45.396 monument down. That statue really never played a prominent part 0:13:45.436 --> 0:13:47.356 in my life. And I said to him, why would 0:13:47.356 --> 0:13:50.356 I do that? And he said, well, Louis Armstrong left 0:13:50.436 --> 0:13:54.596 here because of that monument, And he said, have you 0:13:54.716 --> 0:13:58.676 ever thought about it from my perspective? Well, when he 0:13:58.756 --> 0:14:00.876 said those two things to me, my brain really kind 0:14:00.916 --> 0:14:03.636 of exploded because when he said, Louis Armstrong left here 0:14:03.716 --> 0:14:07.156 for me, that was a really kind of a euphemism 0:14:07.236 --> 0:14:12.436 for the great my imgration after slavery, where four million 0:14:13.036 --> 0:14:16.956 of our fellow Americans left, basically the silence. They took 0:14:16.996 --> 0:14:20.276 all the intellectual capital, of the music capital, everything that 0:14:20.356 --> 0:14:23.036 they had, and took it someplace else and let the 0:14:23.116 --> 0:14:25.236 rest of the world see it, know it, and understand it. 0:14:25.956 --> 0:14:29.516 And I had known that, but I'd really never processed 0:14:29.556 --> 0:14:31.556 it quite like that. And he just said it in 0:14:31.596 --> 0:14:35.276 a real small statement. Lewis Armstrong left, and sitting in 0:14:35.396 --> 0:14:40.636 front of me was Lewis Armstrong's progeny now the greatest 0:14:40.676 --> 0:14:42.356 trumpet player in the road. So as soon as he 0:14:42.436 --> 0:14:45.716 said that to me, it occurred to me that that 0:14:45.956 --> 0:14:48.036 was really a symbol of oppression. He said, I want 0:14:48.036 --> 0:14:49.596 you to think about it from my perspective and what 0:14:49.676 --> 0:14:51.116 I think about when I have to look at that, 0:14:51.556 --> 0:14:54.356 and of course the immediate unfairness of it slaps you 0:14:54.476 --> 0:14:57.236 in the head and say, my goodness, I've been sending 0:14:57.276 --> 0:15:00.036 a message to went and Marcellus and every other African 0:15:00.076 --> 0:15:04.196 American that you're not worthy. And notwithstanding the fact that 0:15:04.316 --> 0:15:07.676 the wall was lost you or not welcome here. And 0:15:07.916 --> 0:15:09.796 so I told went that I would look into it. 0:15:09.876 --> 0:15:12.316 I didn't know at the time, just because I hadn't 0:15:12.316 --> 0:15:13.876 thought about it. Who owned it. Turns out to the 0:15:13.956 --> 0:15:16.356 City of New Orleans owned it, and it turned out 0:15:16.396 --> 0:15:19.156 that it was a mayor's responsibility. And so after good 0:15:19.276 --> 0:15:21.916 year and a half of a lot of legal research, 0:15:22.076 --> 0:15:24.276 because this was going to be a massive political fight, 0:15:25.236 --> 0:15:27.076 you know, I knew that I had to control over 0:15:27.156 --> 0:15:30.516 the property if I went through the right community process 0:15:30.676 --> 0:15:33.036 and got the city council to approve it that it 0:15:33.116 --> 0:15:35.436 was a city's responsibility taken down because in fact it 0:15:35.516 --> 0:15:37.276 had been put up by the Mayor of New Orleans 0:15:37.356 --> 0:15:39.916 in the eighteen nineties at the request of the Daughters 0:15:39.956 --> 0:15:41.836 of the Confederacy and a group called the Cult of 0:15:41.876 --> 0:15:44.796 the Lost Cause, and that put the Confederate monuments up 0:15:44.836 --> 0:15:47.956 for the purposes of sending a message to African Americans 0:15:47.996 --> 0:15:50.796 that even though the war had been lost by the Confederacy, 0:15:50.876 --> 0:15:53.436 the cause was never lost, and then they would continue 0:15:53.476 --> 0:15:55.836 to control the space. And the irony was which really 0:15:55.916 --> 0:15:58.476 took me off, is that Robberty League, of course, wasn't 0:15:58.516 --> 0:16:00.716 from New Orleans, had never been to New Orleans and 0:16:00.796 --> 0:16:03.956 New Orleans wasn't even a Confederate town, and so they've 0:16:03.956 --> 0:16:07.836 actually stole, they stole the most prominent space and told 0:16:08.116 --> 0:16:11.276 basically a historic apply and that if I was building 0:16:11.356 --> 0:16:14.116 the city for the future, building back the city not 0:16:14.276 --> 0:16:16.436 the way it was, but the way it was supposed 0:16:16.436 --> 0:16:18.356 to be, if we would have gotten it right, then 0:16:18.436 --> 0:16:20.716 that was a clear aberration and that had to change. 0:16:21.156 --> 0:16:24.796 When you explain those facts to people who would otherwise 0:16:24.876 --> 0:16:27.036 have been hostile to take in a statue down, they 0:16:27.116 --> 0:16:31.076 changed their minds. Not initially I knew I had a 0:16:31.236 --> 0:16:34.116 pretty good feel for what the city wanted. In the city, 0:16:34.156 --> 0:16:36.316 of course, was at the time I was mayor, sixteen 0:16:36.356 --> 0:16:40.356 to sixty three percent African American. The majority of the 0:16:40.436 --> 0:16:43.356 city supported what I did. I might have done it 0:16:43.436 --> 0:16:45.116 anyway if they hadn't supported it, because it was the 0:16:45.196 --> 0:16:46.876 right thing to do, had I been able to get 0:16:46.916 --> 0:16:49.556 the right authority to do it. But in fact they did. 0:16:49.716 --> 0:16:52.716 Now people who did not live in the city, and 0:16:52.916 --> 0:16:54.716 some white people that lived in the city, not all, 0:16:55.356 --> 0:16:57.716 were very hostile to the idea of taking it down. 0:16:57.796 --> 0:17:01.316 And what had happened was that Donald Trump became President 0:17:01.316 --> 0:17:03.996 of the United States and the issue of race and 0:17:04.116 --> 0:17:06.636 the issue of white nationals and white supremacy really kind 0:17:06.676 --> 0:17:09.956 of got new flavor. And the taking out of the monuments. 0:17:10.036 --> 0:17:12.956 Actually they started happening at the same time, so the 0:17:13.036 --> 0:17:16.516 temperatures were really hot, and people from around the country 0:17:16.996 --> 0:17:19.716 came to New Orleans with the idea somehow that they 0:17:19.756 --> 0:17:21.356 had something to say about what the city of New 0:17:21.436 --> 0:17:24.196 Orleans did with its own property. So essentially, and it's 0:17:24.276 --> 0:17:26.836 very simple form, this was just a property dispute. It 0:17:27.036 --> 0:17:28.716 was a city's property. They could do with it what 0:17:28.796 --> 0:17:30.836 they wanted. I could put an ice cream truck on 0:17:30.916 --> 0:17:32.516 it if I wanted it, and you couldn't stop me. 0:17:33.076 --> 0:17:35.636 But it was all caught up in the history and 0:17:35.676 --> 0:17:39.356 the ethos and people, and it was a very symbolic piece. 0:17:39.436 --> 0:17:42.516 But people were very against it. Now, not everybody, I 0:17:42.636 --> 0:17:46.036 have to say that was against taking them down was 0:17:46.236 --> 0:17:51.916 against it for racial, aggressively racial reason. Some people all 0:17:51.956 --> 0:17:55.036 they remembered was that physical space where their daddy took 0:17:55.076 --> 0:17:56.916 them to enjoy a wad to grow up rade. So 0:17:57.116 --> 0:17:59.596 for them, their history was a short history that had 0:17:59.636 --> 0:18:01.716 nothing to do with anything other than what they did 0:18:01.756 --> 0:18:04.756 when they were kids. But it was such an overtly 0:18:04.876 --> 0:18:08.356 racial monument that I don't think that you can argue 0:18:09.196 --> 0:18:10.796 that it was put up for any other reason. And 0:18:10.916 --> 0:18:14.076 if it was historically wrong to put it up, then 0:18:14.196 --> 0:18:16.956 it was my responsibility to correct that historical era. What 0:18:17.116 --> 0:18:20.316 did you put up in its place? Nothing? We took 0:18:20.356 --> 0:18:23.996 the monument off of it, and my dream was to 0:18:24.676 --> 0:18:28.996 take it down, to upend the entire circle, and then 0:18:29.036 --> 0:18:31.396 to put a really wonderful piece of public art that 0:18:31.516 --> 0:18:34.636 reflected our history, out riches in our culture. Because it 0:18:34.756 --> 0:18:36.676 took so long, and because it was so hard, and 0:18:36.796 --> 0:18:40.436 because it was such a security nightmare, and you can 0:18:40.476 --> 0:18:43.196 go back and look at the pictures it was, it 0:18:43.356 --> 0:18:45.996 was really hard. We didn't have time on the money 0:18:46.076 --> 0:18:48.356 to do it, so we actually left it empty. So 0:18:48.556 --> 0:18:50.716 the pedestal is there and there's nothing on top of it, 0:18:51.236 --> 0:18:54.556 which ironically has turned out to be quite an interesting 0:18:54.636 --> 0:18:57.676 piece of art because people have gone have now driven 0:18:57.756 --> 0:19:00.116 by it, and now they're projecting what it is they 0:19:00.156 --> 0:19:02.236 would put on time. We took down three other monuments, 0:19:02.316 --> 0:19:05.796 by the way, but robberty Lee was the most famous 0:19:05.836 --> 0:19:08.236 of them all. I think subsequent to taking them down, 0:19:08.276 --> 0:19:10.916 a lot of people who were against it came and 0:19:11.236 --> 0:19:13.596 their attitude was, well, I wasn't really for it, but 0:19:13.676 --> 0:19:16.396 I'm out as hostile against it. But I would say 0:19:16.476 --> 0:19:19.436 most of the people did not have not changed their mind. 0:19:19.716 --> 0:19:22.276 Most of the people that were against it initially still 0:19:22.356 --> 0:19:24.196 think that it was a mistake. I think they're wrong, 0:19:25.076 --> 0:19:28.756 and I think history will prove prove us right. Let's 0:19:28.796 --> 0:19:32.036 talk about what it means to take the lessons from 0:19:32.076 --> 0:19:34.596 your time in New Orleans as mayor to the rest 0:19:34.676 --> 0:19:37.036 of the country. There are lots and lots and lots 0:19:37.076 --> 0:19:41.716 of other cities all over America that have profound divides 0:19:41.916 --> 0:19:47.756 between racially and economically. You're now going there and trying 0:19:47.796 --> 0:19:50.716 to help them. What are you telling them, Well, a 0:19:50.756 --> 0:19:52.996 couple of things. First of all, just in terms of 0:19:53.076 --> 0:19:57.676 the xs and oos of governing, government is an organism. 0:19:58.756 --> 0:20:00.876 It's not a business, but it has to be run 0:20:01.796 --> 0:20:04.756 in a way that gains people's trust. It takes in 0:20:04.876 --> 0:20:06.716 money and it spends money, and it has to do 0:20:06.836 --> 0:20:08.796 it honestly. It has to do it openly, it has 0:20:08.836 --> 0:20:11.836 to do it ethically. In my mind, it ought to 0:20:11.876 --> 0:20:14.436 do it as precisely as it can by using data, 0:20:15.436 --> 0:20:18.916 and so, without being a techno geek, there is a 0:20:19.036 --> 0:20:22.156 beauty to running an organization well to make sure it's 0:20:22.236 --> 0:20:25.276 delivers to people what it is, and putting aside anything 0:20:25.356 --> 0:20:27.996 that we've talked about relating to race or inequity, whatever, 0:20:28.396 --> 0:20:30.516 you have a much better chance of solving all of 0:20:30.556 --> 0:20:33.196 those other big problems if you're not constantly getting beat 0:20:33.236 --> 0:20:36.476 on for running a government that doesn't deliver good services 0:20:36.516 --> 0:20:39.236 to the people where they are. Now, that's a mouthful, 0:20:39.316 --> 0:20:41.076 and that's a big thing. In other words, you've got 0:20:41.196 --> 0:20:45.116 to have the basics right before you ascend to talking 0:20:45.156 --> 0:20:47.356 about other things. You won't ever be able to get 0:20:47.436 --> 0:20:49.356 them done. If you can't manage a police department, you 0:20:49.396 --> 0:20:51.436 can't get the cars where they need to go, or 0:20:51.516 --> 0:20:53.476 respond to nine one one calls, they get the fire 0:20:53.556 --> 0:20:56.196 department to a fire, and then you've got no chance 0:20:56.276 --> 0:20:58.076 of doing anything because nobody's going to listen to you. 0:20:58.556 --> 0:21:00.996 So you have to be a good manager, and you 0:21:01.156 --> 0:21:03.076 have to be fiscally prudent, and you have to be 0:21:03.156 --> 0:21:08.156 thoughtful about budgets. So that's first order a business. Secondly, 0:21:08.156 --> 0:21:10.476 I would say the thing that Trainer really taught me 0:21:11.156 --> 0:21:14.076 is that in our darkest hour, when things are really 0:21:14.196 --> 0:21:17.996 really bad, that human beings have a reservoir of goodwill 0:21:18.636 --> 0:21:20.596 that I think we take for granted. And I think 0:21:20.676 --> 0:21:23.196 that when we get into our easy comfort zones, when 0:21:23.236 --> 0:21:29.236 we're not under tremendous stress from a catastrophic event, we 0:21:29.396 --> 0:21:31.996 tend to fall back into what I would call our 0:21:32.076 --> 0:21:34.876