1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:21,596 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I'm at Higgins and this is Solvable. Interviews with 2 00:00:21,676 --> 00:00:25,436 Speaker 1: the world's most innovative thinkers working to solve the world's 3 00:00:25,476 --> 00:00:30,036 Speaker 1: biggest problems. My name is Mitchelandrum from New Orleans, Louisiana, 4 00:00:30,316 --> 00:00:34,796 Speaker 1: and I am trying to solve the problem of racial 5 00:00:34,876 --> 00:00:38,276 Speaker 1: reconciliation in the United States of America. Mitch Landry was 6 00:00:38,316 --> 00:00:41,876 Speaker 1: sworn in as mayor of New Orleans in two and ten, 7 00:00:42,396 --> 00:00:45,356 Speaker 1: back when the city was on the verge of bankruptcy. 8 00:00:45,876 --> 00:00:49,396 Speaker 1: It was five years after the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, 9 00:00:49,476 --> 00:00:52,196 Speaker 1: and it was the midst of the BP oil spill. 10 00:00:53,516 --> 00:00:57,876 Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, he was voted America's top turnaround mayor 11 00:00:58,356 --> 00:01:01,676 Speaker 1: in a survey of mayors that was compiled by Politico, 12 00:01:02,516 --> 00:01:07,796 Speaker 1: and Mitch gained national prominence for his powerful decision to 13 00:01:07,796 --> 00:01:12,676 Speaker 1: take down four Confederate monuments in New Orleans. Mitch has 14 00:01:12,676 --> 00:01:15,636 Speaker 1: written about the entire process in his New York Times 15 00:01:15,676 --> 00:01:19,476 Speaker 1: best selling book, It's called In the Shadow of Statues, 16 00:01:19,916 --> 00:01:23,796 Speaker 1: A White Southerner Confronts History, and in it he recalled 17 00:01:23,876 --> 00:01:28,676 Speaker 1: his personal journey confronting racism, and he also tackles the 18 00:01:28,756 --> 00:01:34,036 Speaker 1: broader history of slavery, race relations and institutional inequalities that 19 00:01:34,236 --> 00:01:39,076 Speaker 1: still plague America today. You'll hear more in this conversation 20 00:01:39,196 --> 00:01:42,596 Speaker 1: with Malcolm Gladwell, and you'll also hear how things are 21 00:01:42,636 --> 00:01:47,396 Speaker 1: developing with his organization. It's called the e Pluribus Unum Fund, 22 00:01:47,956 --> 00:01:51,116 Speaker 1: and he founded it to bring people together across the 23 00:01:51,156 --> 00:01:56,036 Speaker 1: American South around the issues of race, equity, economic opportunity, 24 00:01:56,236 --> 00:02:00,556 Speaker 1: and violence. And he does that by convening diverse community 25 00:02:00,596 --> 00:02:04,756 Speaker 1: members to listen to and learn from one another. What 26 00:02:04,916 --> 00:02:09,436 Speaker 1: is it about this problem that attracted you? One of 27 00:02:09,476 --> 00:02:13,316 Speaker 1: my thirty years of experience, sixteen years as a legislator, 28 00:02:14,316 --> 00:02:16,396 Speaker 1: six as lieutenant government, eight as the mayor of the 29 00:02:16,436 --> 00:02:20,396 Speaker 1: City of New Orleans. Being in a position of having 30 00:02:20,396 --> 00:02:24,396 Speaker 1: to solve problems, it became fairly evident to me that 31 00:02:24,436 --> 00:02:27,396 Speaker 1: it just got much much more difficult because people could 32 00:02:27,396 --> 00:02:31,396 Speaker 1: be torn apart when they were hungry or cold or 33 00:02:31,476 --> 00:02:34,836 Speaker 1: afraid by race, and it made it impossible for people 34 00:02:34,876 --> 00:02:38,916 Speaker 1: to work together. You see this actually permeating not just 35 00:02:38,956 --> 00:02:41,676 Speaker 1: the United States of America now, but the rest of 36 00:02:41,676 --> 00:02:45,196 Speaker 1: the world, and it's manifesting itself not only a long 37 00:02:45,356 --> 00:02:51,116 Speaker 1: race but class ideology, nation of origin, sexual orientation, all 38 00:02:51,116 --> 00:02:53,356 Speaker 1: of those things, and I think that's exactly wrong. I 39 00:02:53,356 --> 00:02:57,516 Speaker 1: think we ought to in the United States be purposeful 40 00:02:57,556 --> 00:03:00,836 Speaker 1: like they were in Germany and in South Africa, to 41 00:03:00,916 --> 00:03:03,516 Speaker 1: try to heal a lot of the divisions that continue 42 00:03:03,596 --> 00:03:05,876 Speaker 1: today that slow us down and stop us from seeing 43 00:03:05,956 --> 00:03:10,516 Speaker 1: finding common ground that matters and news as a very 44 00:03:10,556 --> 00:03:16,516 Speaker 1: interesting and distinctive racial history different from other areas in 45 00:03:16,516 --> 00:03:20,956 Speaker 1: the American South. What was unique about New Orleans which 46 00:03:21,036 --> 00:03:24,596 Speaker 1: was different from some of the other slaveholding areas, was 47 00:03:24,596 --> 00:03:27,636 Speaker 1: that we were a port city through the Mississippi River. 48 00:03:27,716 --> 00:03:29,636 Speaker 1: Right now in New Orleans south of our city, we 49 00:03:29,676 --> 00:03:32,676 Speaker 1: have cumulatively one of the largest ports in the world. 50 00:03:32,716 --> 00:03:35,716 Speaker 1: And as a consequence, many different kinds of peoples and 51 00:03:35,796 --> 00:03:38,036 Speaker 1: goods came from all over the world. And if you're 52 00:03:38,036 --> 00:03:41,396 Speaker 1: in a port city, it is by nature diverse, and 53 00:03:41,476 --> 00:03:43,956 Speaker 1: there were free people of color. Of course, the slave 54 00:03:43,996 --> 00:03:47,436 Speaker 1: trade was as robust as it was anywhere else, and 55 00:03:47,516 --> 00:03:50,076 Speaker 1: a lot of the economy, actually all of the economy 56 00:03:50,076 --> 00:03:54,036 Speaker 1: pre Civil War, was as a result of the individuals 57 00:03:54,316 --> 00:03:56,596 Speaker 1: being forced to work in the fields and to produce 58 00:03:56,676 --> 00:03:59,636 Speaker 1: cotton and sugar cane and things of that nature, which 59 00:03:59,676 --> 00:04:02,076 Speaker 1: formed the basis of the economy New Orleans back in 60 00:04:02,076 --> 00:04:04,316 Speaker 1: the day was one of the largest cities. As a 61 00:04:04,396 --> 00:04:07,996 Speaker 1: matter of fact, in nineteen sixty if you jump forward 62 00:04:08,036 --> 00:04:10,836 Speaker 1: many many years, New Orleans was bigger at that time 63 00:04:10,836 --> 00:04:13,556 Speaker 1: than Atlanta and Houston. What I'm interested in, so you 64 00:04:14,556 --> 00:04:19,036 Speaker 1: in kind of understanding the racial landscape of New Orleans 65 00:04:19,036 --> 00:04:21,596 Speaker 1: when you take over His Mary in twenty ten, it 66 00:04:21,836 --> 00:04:27,156 Speaker 1: is you've You've inherited it quite a It's a mess. Yeah. 67 00:04:27,236 --> 00:04:30,876 Speaker 1: Were you aware of just how messy it was when 68 00:04:30,876 --> 00:04:34,116 Speaker 1: you took up? Oh yeah, yeah, no illusions. The reason 69 00:04:34,116 --> 00:04:37,356 Speaker 1: why I went walked me through how one goes about 70 00:04:38,156 --> 00:04:41,836 Speaker 1: repairing the kind of psyche of a city. We had 71 00:04:41,916 --> 00:04:45,076 Speaker 1: lots going on at once. The city was on the 72 00:04:45,156 --> 00:04:48,596 Speaker 1: verge of bankruptcy. When I ran for office, I ran 73 00:04:49,556 --> 00:04:52,396 Speaker 1: honestly on asking people to make a sacrifice so they 74 00:04:52,956 --> 00:04:55,396 Speaker 1: the people of New Orleans, we were hurting so badly 75 00:04:55,476 --> 00:04:56,956 Speaker 1: that you know, we were kind of at the point 76 00:04:56,956 --> 00:04:59,236 Speaker 1: where we would try anything. And I knew that in 77 00:04:59,316 --> 00:05:02,036 Speaker 1: order to stabilize the city, I had to stabilize the finances. 78 00:05:02,676 --> 00:05:04,676 Speaker 1: So I mean I kind of went about, you know, 79 00:05:04,756 --> 00:05:07,596 Speaker 1: finding a great team of people that were completely committed. 80 00:05:07,596 --> 00:05:10,716 Speaker 1: And when I say completely, I mean twenty four seven, 81 00:05:10,756 --> 00:05:14,796 Speaker 1: three sixty five, and what started to happen was New 82 00:05:14,916 --> 00:05:17,996 Speaker 1: Orleans got themselves into it, just a giving spirit. You know, 83 00:05:18,036 --> 00:05:20,196 Speaker 1: the whole world gasps, but the possibility that we would 84 00:05:20,236 --> 00:05:21,836 Speaker 1: be lost, and that gave us a kind of a 85 00:05:21,876 --> 00:05:25,276 Speaker 1: renewed sense of pride. And when I came in, my 86 00:05:25,356 --> 00:05:27,476 Speaker 1: job was to try to corral all of that energy 87 00:05:27,476 --> 00:05:29,276 Speaker 1: and moving in a positive direction. And one of the 88 00:05:29,276 --> 00:05:31,516 Speaker 1: ways you do that is that you touched skin in 89 00:05:31,516 --> 00:05:33,516 Speaker 1: the skin every day with as many people as you can, 90 00:05:33,596 --> 00:05:36,036 Speaker 1: so they can see you, touch you, feel you, hear you, 91 00:05:36,196 --> 00:05:39,116 Speaker 1: understand you, and then hopefully begin to trust you. So 92 00:05:39,156 --> 00:05:42,036 Speaker 1: I started having a lot of community meetings, and a 93 00:05:42,036 --> 00:05:45,676 Speaker 1: community meeting looked something like me walking into a room 94 00:05:45,676 --> 00:05:49,316 Speaker 1: of a thousand people who are frustrated and angry in 95 00:05:49,516 --> 00:05:52,556 Speaker 1: the neighborhoods that have hit the hardest, and making sure 96 00:05:52,596 --> 00:05:56,156 Speaker 1: that me personally as well as my entire team was 97 00:05:56,196 --> 00:05:58,836 Speaker 1: there and available to listen to the community here what 98 00:05:58,876 --> 00:06:01,276 Speaker 1: it is they had to say, and then somehow try 99 00:06:01,316 --> 00:06:05,036 Speaker 1: to form it into a coherent governing policy where we 100 00:06:05,076 --> 00:06:08,676 Speaker 1: started to put money where it needed to go. It 101 00:06:08,756 --> 00:06:12,636 Speaker 1: wasn't all honky dowry. We had lots of starts and stops. 102 00:06:12,636 --> 00:06:16,916 Speaker 1: The police department had a zero level of confidence in 103 00:06:16,956 --> 00:06:21,516 Speaker 1: the African American community. But I invited the Justice Department 104 00:06:21,556 --> 00:06:23,436 Speaker 1: to come in and to work with us. There was 105 00:06:23,436 --> 00:06:25,676 Speaker 1: a sense of openness and a real sense of commitment 106 00:06:25,676 --> 00:06:27,236 Speaker 1: that we were going to do what is necessary to 107 00:06:27,316 --> 00:06:30,036 Speaker 1: change the city. And then people helped. I mean people, 108 00:06:30,076 --> 00:06:32,916 Speaker 1: everybody just kind of got their hands really dirty. We 109 00:06:32,916 --> 00:06:36,596 Speaker 1: were in such a desperate situation that people actually stopped 110 00:06:37,516 --> 00:06:40,556 Speaker 1: seeing the differences between us. We were in such bad 111 00:06:40,636 --> 00:06:44,396 Speaker 1: shape that we all realized that we had to stop 112 00:06:44,436 --> 00:06:48,196 Speaker 1: fighting and we had to choose common ground. The police 113 00:06:48,236 --> 00:06:51,516 Speaker 1: aspect of this is an interesting one. So you have 114 00:06:51,596 --> 00:06:54,436 Speaker 1: a you inherit a situation where you say, the level 115 00:06:54,476 --> 00:06:58,596 Speaker 1: of trust between poorer communities and the copses as low 116 00:06:58,596 --> 00:07:03,916 Speaker 1: as it can go. That is a profound problem in 117 00:07:03,956 --> 00:07:09,636 Speaker 1: a city where the police voices becomingly needed from the community. Well, 118 00:07:09,676 --> 00:07:13,436 Speaker 1: I remember Katrina was August twenty nine, two thousand and five, 119 00:07:13,956 --> 00:07:17,596 Speaker 1: and some police officers after Katrina left their post. Now, 120 00:07:17,636 --> 00:07:22,036 Speaker 1: most most police officers, first responders were miraculous after Katrina. 121 00:07:22,076 --> 00:07:24,036 Speaker 1: I need to be clear about that. It was an 122 00:07:24,076 --> 00:07:27,196 Speaker 1: incredible thing to watch everybody lifting everybody up, but we 123 00:07:27,276 --> 00:07:31,116 Speaker 1: had some very dark moments. Historically, the police department in 124 00:07:31,156 --> 00:07:36,116 Speaker 1: New Orleans from at least nineteen ninety six through until 125 00:07:36,196 --> 00:07:40,036 Speaker 1: I took office, the police department had deteriorated in terms 126 00:07:40,036 --> 00:07:43,396 Speaker 1: of its relationship with the community pre and post Katrina. 127 00:07:43,836 --> 00:07:47,116 Speaker 1: So I knew that the only way that we could 128 00:07:47,156 --> 00:07:50,596 Speaker 1: heal is by, as me the leader of the city, 129 00:07:50,676 --> 00:07:54,196 Speaker 1: acknowledging that we had a problem, committing to change it, 130 00:07:54,596 --> 00:07:57,756 Speaker 1: and then actually inviting the Justice Department to come in. 131 00:07:57,836 --> 00:08:00,876 Speaker 1: That was an acknowledgement that we were going to do 132 00:08:01,036 --> 00:08:04,756 Speaker 1: everything we needed to do to reorganize the police department 133 00:08:04,916 --> 00:08:07,636 Speaker 1: and to make it go in the right direction. Now, 134 00:08:08,036 --> 00:08:10,636 Speaker 1: it was a rocky road with the Justice Department because 135 00:08:10,756 --> 00:08:13,316 Speaker 1: they live in Washington, they don't live on the ground, 136 00:08:13,356 --> 00:08:15,556 Speaker 1: and sometimes people that are not on the ground miss 137 00:08:16,396 --> 00:08:18,436 Speaker 1: essential components. But it was the right thing to do. 138 00:08:18,516 --> 00:08:20,676 Speaker 1: It sent the right message to the community, and then 139 00:08:20,756 --> 00:08:23,836 Speaker 1: we asked the community to actually help us. I created 140 00:08:23,876 --> 00:08:26,316 Speaker 1: a community advisory board to actually help me hire my 141 00:08:26,436 --> 00:08:29,956 Speaker 1: first police chief, and they made recommendations to me, and 142 00:08:30,276 --> 00:08:34,196 Speaker 1: I actually took the recommendation. The first recommendation. So you 143 00:08:34,356 --> 00:08:37,916 Speaker 1: do that, you build trust over time, you keep putting 144 00:08:38,236 --> 00:08:40,276 Speaker 1: resources where you say they need to be, you keep 145 00:08:40,356 --> 00:08:43,676 Speaker 1: demanding some level of accountability. And then we were the 146 00:08:43,756 --> 00:08:46,436 Speaker 1: first department in the country to put body cameras on 147 00:08:46,596 --> 00:08:49,876 Speaker 1: police officers because I thought it was important for them 148 00:08:49,916 --> 00:08:52,676 Speaker 1: to be real transparency. So now when there was an 149 00:08:52,716 --> 00:08:56,836 Speaker 1: officer involved shooting, the community knew exactly what happened because 150 00:08:56,916 --> 00:09:00,476 Speaker 1: we released those tapes within a reasonably short period of time, 151 00:09:00,596 --> 00:09:03,636 Speaker 1: pending some kind of veto by the district attorney or 152 00:09:03,716 --> 00:09:05,956 Speaker 1: the US attorney about whether it was going to compromise 153 00:09:06,036 --> 00:09:10,316 Speaker 1: the prosecution in a particular case. And those little things 154 00:09:10,436 --> 00:09:13,596 Speaker 1: began to restore levels of credibility. But if you do 155 00:09:13,716 --> 00:09:15,196 Speaker 1: that over and over and over again, and you began 156 00:09:15,276 --> 00:09:17,916 Speaker 1: to walk the walk and not just talk to talk, 157 00:09:18,036 --> 00:09:21,356 Speaker 1: the public starts to say we're good to go with 158 00:09:21,436 --> 00:09:23,116 Speaker 1: what you're doing. And on top of that, we actually 159 00:09:23,156 --> 00:09:26,636 Speaker 1: started to reduce the population in the prison and moving 160 00:09:26,756 --> 00:09:28,956 Speaker 1: very far ahead a criminal justice reform, and we built 161 00:09:28,996 --> 00:09:31,876 Speaker 1: a new use study center. So we were operating on 162 00:09:31,956 --> 00:09:34,876 Speaker 1: a bunch of different fronts. And I had a massive 163 00:09:34,916 --> 00:09:38,596 Speaker 1: initiative to reduce murdered death on the streets of New Orleans, 164 00:09:38,636 --> 00:09:40,836 Speaker 1: which I talked about every day. So the accumulation of 165 00:09:40,916 --> 00:09:44,636 Speaker 1: all those things I think gave the entire community confidence 166 00:09:44,676 --> 00:09:48,556 Speaker 1: that we were goodhearted and right minded about that approach, 167 00:09:48,596 --> 00:09:51,676 Speaker 1: and it helped a lot. Wow, how long, but too 168 00:09:51,756 --> 00:09:55,116 Speaker 1: the time you took office, how many years in did 169 00:09:55,196 --> 00:09:58,316 Speaker 1: you feel like you had turned the corner with that? Well, 170 00:09:58,356 --> 00:10:00,556 Speaker 1: you never feel like you're doing well enough. But I 171 00:10:00,676 --> 00:10:03,956 Speaker 1: think it took us about three, three or four years. Yeah, 172 00:10:04,036 --> 00:10:06,076 Speaker 1: I mean it was a bit. It was a bit, 173 00:10:06,116 --> 00:10:07,876 Speaker 1: and it was a long. It was a real deep dig. 174 00:10:07,996 --> 00:10:09,636 Speaker 1: You were a two term there, I was to term. 175 00:10:09,676 --> 00:10:11,436 Speaker 1: I serve for eight years. If you had been a 176 00:10:11,516 --> 00:10:16,236 Speaker 1: one term mayor, would it have worked, That's a good question. 177 00:10:16,716 --> 00:10:20,556 Speaker 1: Probably probably not. You know. One of the actually challenges 178 00:10:20,596 --> 00:10:23,076 Speaker 1: that we had was Mark Morio, who is known he's 179 00:10:23,116 --> 00:10:25,516 Speaker 1: now the head of the National Urban League, was the 180 00:10:25,556 --> 00:10:27,076 Speaker 1: mayor of the city back in the nineties, and he 181 00:10:27,156 --> 00:10:29,516 Speaker 1: turned the police department around when he was there, and 182 00:10:29,676 --> 00:10:32,596 Speaker 1: after he left it went back to where the lowest point. 183 00:10:32,756 --> 00:10:35,276 Speaker 1: So when I took over, one of the things that 184 00:10:35,356 --> 00:10:36,916 Speaker 1: was rolling around in my mind is that we had 185 00:10:36,956 --> 00:10:39,316 Speaker 1: tried this before, but we hadn't never institutionalized and the 186 00:10:39,356 --> 00:10:41,956 Speaker 1: consent decree would be necessary to do that. The city 187 00:10:42,036 --> 00:10:44,476 Speaker 1: actually is still under the supervision of a federal consent 188 00:10:44,556 --> 00:10:47,956 Speaker 1: degree because the federal judges they won't let you out 189 00:10:47,996 --> 00:10:51,076 Speaker 1: of it until they now see the institutional rules and 190 00:10:51,156 --> 00:10:53,516 Speaker 1: regulations put in place, which we were very aggressive about. 191 00:10:53,556 --> 00:10:56,356 Speaker 1: So I expected in a short time it'll be done 192 00:10:56,796 --> 00:10:59,316 Speaker 1: and the institutional changes. But you have to be vigilant 193 00:10:59,356 --> 00:11:02,276 Speaker 1: every day. Everything that we talked about, you've got to 194 00:11:02,316 --> 00:11:05,076 Speaker 1: repeat every day over and over again. Walked me through 195 00:11:05,196 --> 00:11:09,396 Speaker 1: the whole issue of the statutes and what you learn 196 00:11:09,516 --> 00:11:12,076 Speaker 1: from that, particularly what you learn from that for the 197 00:11:12,156 --> 00:11:14,756 Speaker 1: book you're doing. Now. What I learned is that we're 198 00:11:14,796 --> 00:11:17,996 Speaker 1: not as far long as i'd hope would be, and 199 00:11:18,116 --> 00:11:21,876 Speaker 1: that saddens me as the mayor of the city. Remember, 200 00:11:21,916 --> 00:11:24,236 Speaker 1: we're in the midst of the recovery. We're rebuilding the 201 00:11:24,316 --> 00:11:29,356 Speaker 1: whole city. The physical spaces of city inform how the 202 00:11:29,516 --> 00:11:32,036 Speaker 1: city lives and breathes and works and interacts with each 203 00:11:32,076 --> 00:11:35,676 Speaker 1: other every day, and it's really important, and many mayors 204 00:11:35,716 --> 00:11:37,436 Speaker 1: in America spend a lot of time with this, and 205 00:11:37,596 --> 00:11:40,956 Speaker 1: I was too. I had the benefit of a blank 206 00:11:41,076 --> 00:11:44,396 Speaker 1: or landscape because of this terrible catastrophe and so I 207 00:11:44,476 --> 00:11:46,476 Speaker 1: had a responsibility to make sure that it was built 208 00:11:46,516 --> 00:11:49,396 Speaker 1: back that right way, and so public spaces were in 209 00:11:49,556 --> 00:11:54,476 Speaker 1: my mind and big picture. Remember we were rebuilding hospital, schools, 210 00:11:54,596 --> 00:11:57,916 Speaker 1: We're building a brand new airport, rebuilding the riverfront. A 211 00:11:58,036 --> 00:12:00,756 Speaker 1: lot of opportunity and hence a lot of responsibility. And 212 00:12:00,876 --> 00:12:04,476 Speaker 1: so when I was doing that, I'd always had this 213 00:12:04,636 --> 00:12:08,676 Speaker 1: fetish for circles. I loved circles. I loved the circles 214 00:12:08,716 --> 00:12:11,276 Speaker 1: and washing you see. I loved them in Europe and 215 00:12:11,676 --> 00:12:17,436 Speaker 1: New Orleans being such rich history and architecture, it always 216 00:12:17,476 --> 00:12:20,156 Speaker 1: thought it was curious that we never had more circles. 217 00:12:20,196 --> 00:12:23,356 Speaker 1: We only have one, and it's the most prominent spot 218 00:12:23,396 --> 00:12:25,276 Speaker 1: in the city of New Orleans. It is the space 219 00:12:26,276 --> 00:12:28,756 Speaker 1: that all the autogra parades right on. It's on the 220 00:12:28,836 --> 00:12:31,516 Speaker 1: main thoroughfare in the city, and there's a statue there 221 00:12:31,516 --> 00:12:34,516 Speaker 1: of Roberty Lee, who is the general that led the 222 00:12:34,636 --> 00:12:38,196 Speaker 1: Confederacy in an effort to destroy the United States of America. 223 00:12:38,636 --> 00:12:40,756 Speaker 1: And so as we were building the city and I 224 00:12:40,876 --> 00:12:43,596 Speaker 1: was thinking about how to keep the city still energized 225 00:12:44,556 --> 00:12:47,996 Speaker 1: to keep doing really big things. I wanted to use 226 00:12:48,036 --> 00:12:51,556 Speaker 1: our three hundred anniversary as a framework for the city 227 00:12:51,716 --> 00:12:56,756 Speaker 1: to finish its reconstruction projects and to leave a legacy, 228 00:12:56,916 --> 00:12:58,916 Speaker 1: much like a city would leave a legacy after they 229 00:12:59,036 --> 00:13:02,676 Speaker 1: built for the Olympics or built for the World Cup. 230 00:13:03,316 --> 00:13:06,516 Speaker 1: So I had asked went mor Salis, who was a 231 00:13:06,636 --> 00:13:09,596 Speaker 1: childhood friend of mine, who I considered to be besides 232 00:13:09,676 --> 00:13:12,236 Speaker 1: being a great musician, I know that the horn and 233 00:13:12,316 --> 00:13:17,596 Speaker 1: the music is just his meeting his messages democracy and 234 00:13:17,796 --> 00:13:21,556 Speaker 1: freedom in history. And I said, when I want you 235 00:13:21,596 --> 00:13:24,116 Speaker 1: to help me curate the three hundred anniversary, which is 236 00:13:24,116 --> 00:13:27,756 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen. This conversation took place in twenty fourteen 237 00:13:28,116 --> 00:13:31,076 Speaker 1: because we had a long window. And he said, I'll 238 00:13:31,076 --> 00:13:32,956 Speaker 1: do that, but I want you to think about something. 239 00:13:33,156 --> 00:13:34,476 Speaker 1: And I said what he goes, I would like you 240 00:13:34,516 --> 00:13:37,556 Speaker 1: to think about taking down that Confederate monument. Well, it 241 00:13:37,756 --> 00:13:41,436 Speaker 1: really never occurred to me that I would take that 242 00:13:41,596 --> 00:13:45,396 Speaker 1: monument down. That statue really never played a prominent part 243 00:13:45,436 --> 00:13:47,356 Speaker 1: in my life. And I said to him, why would 244 00:13:47,356 --> 00:13:50,356 Speaker 1: I do that? And he said, well, Louis Armstrong left 245 00:13:50,436 --> 00:13:54,596 Speaker 1: here because of that monument, And he said, have you 246 00:13:54,716 --> 00:13:58,676 Speaker 1: ever thought about it from my perspective? Well, when he 247 00:13:58,756 --> 00:14:00,876 Speaker 1: said those two things to me, my brain really kind 248 00:14:00,916 --> 00:14:03,636 Speaker 1: of exploded because when he said, Louis Armstrong left here 249 00:14:03,716 --> 00:14:07,156 Speaker 1: for me, that was a really kind of a euphemism 250 00:14:07,236 --> 00:14:12,436 Speaker 1: for the great my imgration after slavery, where four million 251 00:14:13,036 --> 00:14:16,956 Speaker 1: of our fellow Americans left, basically the silence. They took 252 00:14:16,996 --> 00:14:20,276 Speaker 1: all the intellectual capital, of the music capital, everything that 253 00:14:20,356 --> 00:14:23,036 Speaker 1: they had, and took it someplace else and let the 254 00:14:23,116 --> 00:14:25,236 Speaker 1: rest of the world see it, know it, and understand it. 255 00:14:25,956 --> 00:14:29,516 Speaker 1: And I had known that, but I'd really never processed 256 00:14:29,556 --> 00:14:31,556 Speaker 1: it quite like that. And he just said it in 257 00:14:31,596 --> 00:14:35,276 Speaker 1: a real small statement. Lewis Armstrong left, and sitting in 258 00:14:35,396 --> 00:14:40,636 Speaker 1: front of me was Lewis Armstrong's progeny now the greatest 259 00:14:40,676 --> 00:14:42,356 Speaker 1: trumpet player in the road. So as soon as he 260 00:14:42,436 --> 00:14:45,716 Speaker 1: said that to me, it occurred to me that that 261 00:14:45,956 --> 00:14:48,036 Speaker 1: was really a symbol of oppression. He said, I want 262 00:14:48,036 --> 00:14:49,596 Speaker 1: you to think about it from my perspective and what 263 00:14:49,676 --> 00:14:51,116 Speaker 1: I think about when I have to look at that, 264 00:14:51,556 --> 00:14:54,356 Speaker 1: and of course the immediate unfairness of it slaps you 265 00:14:54,476 --> 00:14:57,236 Speaker 1: in the head and say, my goodness, I've been sending 266 00:14:57,276 --> 00:15:00,036 Speaker 1: a message to went and Marcellus and every other African 267 00:15:00,076 --> 00:15:04,196 Speaker 1: American that you're not worthy. And notwithstanding the fact that 268 00:15:04,316 --> 00:15:07,676 Speaker 1: the wall was lost you or not welcome here. And 269 00:15:07,916 --> 00:15:09,796 Speaker 1: so I told went that I would look into it. 270 00:15:09,876 --> 00:15:12,316 Speaker 1: I didn't know at the time, just because I hadn't 271 00:15:12,316 --> 00:15:13,876 Speaker 1: thought about it. Who owned it. Turns out to the 272 00:15:13,956 --> 00:15:16,356 Speaker 1: City of New Orleans owned it, and it turned out 273 00:15:16,396 --> 00:15:19,156 Speaker 1: that it was a mayor's responsibility. And so after good 274 00:15:19,276 --> 00:15:21,916 Speaker 1: year and a half of a lot of legal research, 275 00:15:22,076 --> 00:15:24,276 Speaker 1: because this was going to be a massive political fight, 276 00:15:25,236 --> 00:15:27,076 Speaker 1: you know, I knew that I had to control over 277 00:15:27,156 --> 00:15:30,516 Speaker 1: the property if I went through the right community process 278 00:15:30,676 --> 00:15:33,036 Speaker 1: and got the city council to approve it that it 279 00:15:33,116 --> 00:15:35,436 Speaker 1: was a city's responsibility taken down because in fact it 280 00:15:35,516 --> 00:15:37,276 Speaker 1: had been put up by the Mayor of New Orleans 281 00:15:37,356 --> 00:15:39,916 Speaker 1: in the eighteen nineties at the request of the Daughters 282 00:15:39,956 --> 00:15:41,836 Speaker 1: of the Confederacy and a group called the Cult of 283 00:15:41,876 --> 00:15:44,796 Speaker 1: the Lost Cause, and that put the Confederate monuments up 284 00:15:44,836 --> 00:15:47,956 Speaker 1: for the purposes of sending a message to African Americans 285 00:15:47,996 --> 00:15:50,796 Speaker 1: that even though the war had been lost by the Confederacy, 286 00:15:50,876 --> 00:15:53,436 Speaker 1: the cause was never lost, and then they would continue 287 00:15:53,476 --> 00:15:55,836 Speaker 1: to control the space. And the irony was which really 288 00:15:55,916 --> 00:15:58,476 Speaker 1: took me off, is that Robberty League, of course, wasn't 289 00:15:58,516 --> 00:16:00,716 Speaker 1: from New Orleans, had never been to New Orleans and 290 00:16:00,796 --> 00:16:03,956 Speaker 1: New Orleans wasn't even a Confederate town, and so they've 291 00:16:03,956 --> 00:16:07,836 Speaker 1: actually stole, they stole the most prominent space and told 292 00:16:08,116 --> 00:16:11,276 Speaker 1: basically a historic apply and that if I was building 293 00:16:11,356 --> 00:16:14,116 Speaker 1: the city for the future, building back the city not 294 00:16:14,276 --> 00:16:16,436 Speaker 1: the way it was, but the way it was supposed 295 00:16:16,436 --> 00:16:18,356 Speaker 1: to be, if we would have gotten it right, then 296 00:16:18,436 --> 00:16:20,716 Speaker 1: that was a clear aberration and that had to change. 297 00:16:21,156 --> 00:16:24,796 Speaker 1: When you explain those facts to people who would otherwise 298 00:16:24,876 --> 00:16:27,036 Speaker 1: have been hostile to take in a statue down, they 299 00:16:27,116 --> 00:16:31,076 Speaker 1: changed their minds. Not initially I knew I had a 300 00:16:31,236 --> 00:16:34,116 Speaker 1: pretty good feel for what the city wanted. In the city, 301 00:16:34,156 --> 00:16:36,316 Speaker 1: of course, was at the time I was mayor, sixteen 302 00:16:36,356 --> 00:16:40,356 Speaker 1: to sixty three percent African American. The majority of the 303 00:16:40,436 --> 00:16:43,356 Speaker 1: city supported what I did. I might have done it 304 00:16:43,436 --> 00:16:45,116 Speaker 1: anyway if they hadn't supported it, because it was the 305 00:16:45,196 --> 00:16:46,876 Speaker 1: right thing to do, had I been able to get 306 00:16:46,916 --> 00:16:49,556 Speaker 1: the right authority to do it. But in fact they did. 307 00:16:49,716 --> 00:16:52,716 Speaker 1: Now people who did not live in the city, and 308 00:16:52,916 --> 00:16:54,716 Speaker 1: some white people that lived in the city, not all, 309 00:16:55,356 --> 00:16:57,716 Speaker 1: were very hostile to the idea of taking it down. 310 00:16:57,796 --> 00:17:01,316 Speaker 1: And what had happened was that Donald Trump became President 311 00:17:01,316 --> 00:17:03,996 Speaker 1: of the United States and the issue of race and 312 00:17:04,116 --> 00:17:06,636 Speaker 1: the issue of white nationals and white supremacy really kind 313 00:17:06,676 --> 00:17:09,956 Speaker 1: of got new flavor. And the taking out of the monuments. 314 00:17:10,036 --> 00:17:12,956 Speaker 1: Actually they started happening at the same time, so the 315 00:17:13,036 --> 00:17:16,516 Speaker 1: temperatures were really hot, and people from around the country 316 00:17:16,996 --> 00:17:19,716 Speaker 1: came to New Orleans with the idea somehow that they 317 00:17:19,756 --> 00:17:21,356 Speaker 1: had something to say about what the city of New 318 00:17:21,436 --> 00:17:24,196 Speaker 1: Orleans did with its own property. So essentially, and it's 319 00:17:24,276 --> 00:17:26,836 Speaker 1: very simple form, this was just a property dispute. It 320 00:17:27,036 --> 00:17:28,716 Speaker 1: was a city's property. They could do with it what 321 00:17:28,796 --> 00:17:30,836 Speaker 1: they wanted. I could put an ice cream truck on 322 00:17:30,916 --> 00:17:32,516 Speaker 1: it if I wanted it, and you couldn't stop me. 323 00:17:33,076 --> 00:17:35,636 Speaker 1: But it was all caught up in the history and 324 00:17:35,676 --> 00:17:39,356 Speaker 1: the ethos and people, and it was a very symbolic piece. 325 00:17:39,436 --> 00:17:42,516 Speaker 1: But people were very against it. Now, not everybody, I 326 00:17:42,636 --> 00:17:46,036 Speaker 1: have to say that was against taking them down was 327 00:17:46,236 --> 00:17:51,916 Speaker 1: against it for racial, aggressively racial reason. Some people all 328 00:17:51,956 --> 00:17:55,036 Speaker 1: they remembered was that physical space where their daddy took 329 00:17:55,076 --> 00:17:56,916 Speaker 1: them to enjoy a wad to grow up rade. So 330 00:17:57,116 --> 00:17:59,596 Speaker 1: for them, their history was a short history that had 331 00:17:59,636 --> 00:18:01,716 Speaker 1: nothing to do with anything other than what they did 332 00:18:01,756 --> 00:18:04,756 Speaker 1: when they were kids. But it was such an overtly 333 00:18:04,876 --> 00:18:08,356 Speaker 1: racial monument that I don't think that you can argue 334 00:18:09,196 --> 00:18:10,796 Speaker 1: that it was put up for any other reason. And 335 00:18:10,916 --> 00:18:14,076 Speaker 1: if it was historically wrong to put it up, then 336 00:18:14,196 --> 00:18:16,956 Speaker 1: it was my responsibility to correct that historical era. What 337 00:18:17,116 --> 00:18:20,316 Speaker 1: did you put up in its place? Nothing? We took 338 00:18:20,356 --> 00:18:23,996 Speaker 1: the monument off of it, and my dream was to 339 00:18:24,676 --> 00:18:28,996 Speaker 1: take it down, to upend the entire circle, and then 340 00:18:29,036 --> 00:18:31,396 Speaker 1: to put a really wonderful piece of public art that 341 00:18:31,516 --> 00:18:34,636 Speaker 1: reflected our history, out riches in our culture. Because it 342 00:18:34,756 --> 00:18:36,676 Speaker 1: took so long, and because it was so hard, and 343 00:18:36,796 --> 00:18:40,436 Speaker 1: because it was such a security nightmare, and you can 344 00:18:40,476 --> 00:18:43,196 Speaker 1: go back and look at the pictures it was, it 345 00:18:43,356 --> 00:18:45,996 Speaker 1: was really hard. We didn't have time on the money 346 00:18:46,076 --> 00:18:48,356 Speaker 1: to do it, so we actually left it empty. So 347 00:18:48,556 --> 00:18:50,716 Speaker 1: the pedestal is there and there's nothing on top of it, 348 00:18:51,236 --> 00:18:54,556 Speaker 1: which ironically has turned out to be quite an interesting 349 00:18:54,636 --> 00:18:57,676 Speaker 1: piece of art because people have gone have now driven 350 00:18:57,756 --> 00:19:00,116 Speaker 1: by it, and now they're projecting what it is they 351 00:19:00,156 --> 00:19:02,236 Speaker 1: would put on time. We took down three other monuments, 352 00:19:02,316 --> 00:19:05,796 Speaker 1: by the way, but robberty Lee was the most famous 353 00:19:05,836 --> 00:19:08,236 Speaker 1: of them all. I think subsequent to taking them down, 354 00:19:08,276 --> 00:19:10,916 Speaker 1: a lot of people who were against it came and 355 00:19:11,236 --> 00:19:13,596 Speaker 1: their attitude was, well, I wasn't really for it, but 356 00:19:13,676 --> 00:19:16,396 Speaker 1: I'm out as hostile against it. But I would say 357 00:19:16,476 --> 00:19:19,436 Speaker 1: most of the people did not have not changed their mind. 358 00:19:19,716 --> 00:19:22,276 Speaker 1: Most of the people that were against it initially still 359 00:19:22,356 --> 00:19:24,196 Speaker 1: think that it was a mistake. I think they're wrong, 360 00:19:25,076 --> 00:19:28,756 Speaker 1: and I think history will prove prove us right. Let's 361 00:19:28,796 --> 00:19:32,036 Speaker 1: talk about what it means to take the lessons from 362 00:19:32,076 --> 00:19:34,596 Speaker 1: your time in New Orleans as mayor to the rest 363 00:19:34,676 --> 00:19:37,036 Speaker 1: of the country. There are lots and lots and lots 364 00:19:37,076 --> 00:19:41,716 Speaker 1: of other cities all over America that have profound divides 365 00:19:41,916 --> 00:19:47,756 Speaker 1: between racially and economically. You're now going there and trying 366 00:19:47,796 --> 00:19:50,716 Speaker 1: to help them. What are you telling them, Well, a 367 00:19:50,756 --> 00:19:52,996 Speaker 1: couple of things. First of all, just in terms of 368 00:19:53,076 --> 00:19:57,676 Speaker 1: the xs and oos of governing, government is an organism. 369 00:19:58,756 --> 00:20:00,876 Speaker 1: It's not a business, but it has to be run 370 00:20:01,796 --> 00:20:04,756 Speaker 1: in a way that gains people's trust. It takes in 371 00:20:04,876 --> 00:20:06,716 Speaker 1: money and it spends money, and it has to do 372 00:20:06,836 --> 00:20:08,796 Speaker 1: it honestly. It has to do it openly, it has 373 00:20:08,836 --> 00:20:11,836 Speaker 1: to do it ethically. In my mind, it ought to 374 00:20:11,876 --> 00:20:14,436 Speaker 1: do it as precisely as it can by using data, 375 00:20:15,436 --> 00:20:18,916 Speaker 1: and so, without being a techno geek, there is a 376 00:20:19,036 --> 00:20:22,156 Speaker 1: beauty to running an organization well to make sure it's 377 00:20:22,236 --> 00:20:25,276 Speaker 1: delivers to people what it is, and putting aside anything 378 00:20:25,356 --> 00:20:27,996 Speaker 1: that we've talked about relating to race or inequity, whatever, 379 00:20:28,396 --> 00:20:30,516 Speaker 1: you have a much better chance of solving all of 380 00:20:30,556 --> 00:20:33,196 Speaker 1: those other big problems if you're not constantly getting beat 381 00:20:33,236 --> 00:20:36,476 Speaker 1: on for running a government that doesn't deliver good services 382 00:20:36,516 --> 00:20:39,236 Speaker 1: to the people where they are. Now, that's a mouthful, 383 00:20:39,316 --> 00:20:41,076 Speaker 1: and that's a big thing. In other words, you've got 384 00:20:41,196 --> 00:20:45,116 Speaker 1: to have the basics right before you ascend to talking 385 00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:47,356 Speaker 1: about other things. You won't ever be able to get 386 00:20:47,436 --> 00:20:49,356 Speaker 1: them done. If you can't manage a police department, you 387 00:20:49,396 --> 00:20:51,436 Speaker 1: can't get the cars where they need to go, or 388 00:20:51,516 --> 00:20:53,476 Speaker 1: respond to nine one one calls, they get the fire 389 00:20:53,556 --> 00:20:56,196 Speaker 1: department to a fire, and then you've got no chance 390 00:20:56,276 --> 00:20:58,076 Speaker 1: of doing anything because nobody's going to listen to you. 391 00:20:58,556 --> 00:21:00,996 Speaker 1: So you have to be a good manager, and you 392 00:21:01,156 --> 00:21:03,076 Speaker 1: have to be fiscally prudent, and you have to be 393 00:21:03,156 --> 00:21:08,156 Speaker 1: thoughtful about budgets. So that's first order a business. Secondly, 394 00:21:08,156 --> 00:21:10,476 Speaker 1: I would say the thing that Trainer really taught me 395 00:21:11,156 --> 00:21:14,076 Speaker 1: is that in our darkest hour, when things are really 396 00:21:14,196 --> 00:21:17,996 Speaker 1: really bad, that human beings have a reservoir of goodwill 397 00:21:18,636 --> 00:21:20,596 Speaker 1: that I think we take for granted. And I think 398 00:21:20,676 --> 00:21:23,196 Speaker 1: that when we get into our easy comfort zones, when 399 00:21:23,236 --> 00:21:29,236 Speaker 1: we're not under tremendous stress from a catastrophic event, we 400 00:21:29,396 --> 00:21:31,996 Speaker 1: tend to fall back into what I would call our 401 00:21:32,076 --> 00:21:34,876 Speaker 1: more typical, selfish ways of thinking more of ourselves than 402 00:21:34,956 --> 00:21:38,276 Speaker 1: of other people. I vividly remember, because I was in boats, 403 00:21:38,316 --> 00:21:42,236 Speaker 1: rescuing people, no matter how much in despair we were, 404 00:21:42,916 --> 00:21:47,756 Speaker 1: how I saw human beings who would not titled, are 405 00:21:47,836 --> 00:21:51,036 Speaker 1: not entitled, would just run to each other and lift 406 00:21:51,076 --> 00:21:54,116 Speaker 1: each other up. And the walls of separation fell, The 407 00:21:54,236 --> 00:21:57,196 Speaker 1: walls that we fight about every day, being black, being why, 408 00:21:57,276 --> 00:22:00,716 Speaker 1: and being rich, being poor, being conservative, being liberal, all 409 00:22:00,756 --> 00:22:03,236 Speaker 1: that stuff went away because we had a common enemy 410 00:22:03,276 --> 00:22:05,756 Speaker 1: that was going to kill us all, and it brought 411 00:22:05,836 --> 00:22:08,596 Speaker 1: us together. And I saw it happened, so I know 412 00:22:08,676 --> 00:22:11,756 Speaker 1: it can happen. I can testify because I saw it. 413 00:22:11,876 --> 00:22:14,196 Speaker 1: It's not just a theory in my life. And that 414 00:22:14,316 --> 00:22:17,876 Speaker 1: same ethos allowed us to rebuild the entire city of 415 00:22:17,916 --> 00:22:19,556 Speaker 1: New Orleans in a very short period of time. So 416 00:22:19,596 --> 00:22:23,276 Speaker 1: I actually rebuilt a government. So you ask yourself. One 417 00:22:23,316 --> 00:22:26,476 Speaker 1: of the things I challenge other leaders about us. Why 418 00:22:26,556 --> 00:22:28,116 Speaker 1: can't we keep doing that? Why do we have to 419 00:22:28,196 --> 00:22:31,876 Speaker 1: have a catastrophe to take us to the point of 420 00:22:32,636 --> 00:22:35,836 Speaker 1: sustained growth over periods of time? And the things that 421 00:22:35,996 --> 00:22:39,196 Speaker 1: keep us away from that is fighting about money, fighting 422 00:22:39,236 --> 00:22:43,836 Speaker 1: about race. And you got to try to organize your 423 00:22:43,916 --> 00:22:47,676 Speaker 1: life in a way so that your choices are good choices. Yeah, 424 00:22:48,116 --> 00:22:49,676 Speaker 1: there has to be a vision, and the vision can 425 00:22:49,716 --> 00:22:52,556 Speaker 1: be a collective vision that you get from talking to people. 426 00:22:53,196 --> 00:22:55,796 Speaker 1: The interesting thing about my public meetings that I did 427 00:22:56,636 --> 00:22:59,036 Speaker 1: was I did them all over the city. There were 428 00:22:59,276 --> 00:23:01,916 Speaker 1: no few within five hundred people, and my community meetings 429 00:23:01,956 --> 00:23:04,916 Speaker 1: and about a thousand, and I did a lot of them. 430 00:23:05,156 --> 00:23:07,396 Speaker 1: After I did them all, it became abundantly clear that 431 00:23:07,516 --> 00:23:09,876 Speaker 1: all of the people in the city one of the 432 00:23:10,036 --> 00:23:13,356 Speaker 1: exact same things. So when you do that and you're 433 00:23:13,396 --> 00:23:15,516 Speaker 1: that connected and you're hearing, and then you try to 434 00:23:15,556 --> 00:23:17,436 Speaker 1: deliver what it is that they say, and you're working 435 00:23:17,516 --> 00:23:20,156 Speaker 1: hard to do that, they then begin to give more. 436 00:23:20,716 --> 00:23:22,396 Speaker 1: You make sure that you give what it is that 437 00:23:22,476 --> 00:23:24,516 Speaker 1: they ask for, and then it starts to create a 438 00:23:24,596 --> 00:23:28,756 Speaker 1: virtuous cyclist success. The juxtaposition on the national level right 439 00:23:28,836 --> 00:23:33,316 Speaker 1: now is and it's a strategy. If I divide, and 440 00:23:33,436 --> 00:23:35,796 Speaker 1: I keep people separate, and I keep people angry at 441 00:23:35,796 --> 00:23:38,796 Speaker 1: each other. I win. That's the president's ethos right now. 442 00:23:39,156 --> 00:23:41,916 Speaker 1: Not good for the country, but he succeeded at least 443 00:23:42,156 --> 00:23:43,996 Speaker 1: for a four year period of time. I think the 444 00:23:44,076 --> 00:23:45,916 Speaker 1: theory for the country now is well, now that you've 445 00:23:45,956 --> 00:23:48,156 Speaker 1: seen what that looks like, and now that you've seen 446 00:23:48,356 --> 00:23:50,716 Speaker 1: what that's gotten us, how is that working out for you? 447 00:23:51,396 --> 00:23:54,116 Speaker 1: For some people, that's working out well. For most of us, 448 00:23:54,156 --> 00:23:55,996 Speaker 1: it's not working out well. And the country is going 449 00:23:56,036 --> 00:23:58,276 Speaker 1: to have to make a decision to either be find 450 00:23:58,316 --> 00:24:01,596 Speaker 1: a leader, and leaders that seek and find common ground 451 00:24:02,116 --> 00:24:04,796 Speaker 1: are people that are happy with separating. It's because that's 452 00:24:04,796 --> 00:24:07,716 Speaker 1: a strategy too, and I think there's a choice to 453 00:24:07,796 --> 00:24:10,316 Speaker 1: be made about that, and I think the country is 454 00:24:10,356 --> 00:24:12,636 Speaker 1: going to have to make that choice. You had said 455 00:24:12,676 --> 00:24:15,396 Speaker 1: it at the beginning that there were things that could 456 00:24:15,396 --> 00:24:19,116 Speaker 1: be learned from the experience of Germany and South Africa 457 00:24:19,836 --> 00:24:23,276 Speaker 1: in reconciliation and that could be brought to this country 458 00:24:23,316 --> 00:24:25,556 Speaker 1: and we'd never gone through that kind of fomal process. 459 00:24:25,996 --> 00:24:28,836 Speaker 1: What does that fomal process look like in the American sense. 460 00:24:29,276 --> 00:24:32,316 Speaker 1: That's a really interesting question because I think it can 461 00:24:32,356 --> 00:24:34,476 Speaker 1: take a lot of different forms. The first thing it 462 00:24:34,596 --> 00:24:37,476 Speaker 1: has to form. It has to take as a recognition 463 00:24:38,116 --> 00:24:42,836 Speaker 1: by people that what happened was wrong, to formally say 464 00:24:43,836 --> 00:24:46,276 Speaker 1: what happened was really really wrong. It did a lot 465 00:24:46,356 --> 00:24:50,836 Speaker 1: of damage, and that damage lasts today. Whether that takes 466 00:24:50,876 --> 00:24:55,676 Speaker 1: the form of a national declaration by Congress or mayors 467 00:24:55,876 --> 00:25:01,956 Speaker 1: speaking individually, something structural that actually says to the world 468 00:25:02,396 --> 00:25:06,236 Speaker 1: that this was really bad, and by the way, recognizing 469 00:25:06,396 --> 00:25:12,516 Speaker 1: that things still exist institutional and they continue to exacerbate 470 00:25:13,036 --> 00:25:16,396 Speaker 1: what the original sin was. So that's institutional racism. That 471 00:25:16,476 --> 00:25:18,916 Speaker 1: word gets used a lot, but if you mapped it 472 00:25:18,996 --> 00:25:20,716 Speaker 1: out for people, what does it really look like, Whether 473 00:25:20,756 --> 00:25:24,116 Speaker 1: it's how we divide congressional districts, or how we segregate 474 00:25:24,196 --> 00:25:27,796 Speaker 1: school districts, or how we handle redlining, how we deal 475 00:25:27,876 --> 00:25:30,596 Speaker 1: with the mortgage crisis, that tons of examples of it, 476 00:25:31,316 --> 00:25:34,636 Speaker 1: and then to acknowledge it and to say we actually 477 00:25:34,716 --> 00:25:38,316 Speaker 1: now want to fix it, and here's a pathway towards 478 00:25:38,396 --> 00:25:40,836 Speaker 1: fixing it. I'd like to build the National Institute for 479 00:25:40,956 --> 00:25:44,476 Speaker 1: Racial Reconciliation that creates the space to have that kind 480 00:25:44,516 --> 00:25:47,236 Speaker 1: of dialogue. It doesn't have to take place in that building. 481 00:25:47,316 --> 00:25:49,596 Speaker 1: It can take place in communities across the country, but 482 00:25:49,716 --> 00:25:52,076 Speaker 1: we ought to be having in the New Orleans. We 483 00:25:52,276 --> 00:25:55,556 Speaker 1: borrow something from the William went to Institute of Racial Reconciliation, 484 00:25:55,676 --> 00:25:59,036 Speaker 1: the white governor from Mississippi, and they have something called 485 00:25:59,076 --> 00:26:02,036 Speaker 1: the Welcome Table where they actually invite people twenty at 486 00:26:02,076 --> 00:26:05,116 Speaker 1: a time, half white, half Blaque, or whatever the racial 487 00:26:05,196 --> 00:26:07,396 Speaker 1: mix would be, to get to know each other and 488 00:26:07,476 --> 00:26:10,876 Speaker 1: spend six seven eight months to learning from each other, 489 00:26:10,996 --> 00:26:13,356 Speaker 1: knowing each other, and befriending each other. Something as simple 490 00:26:13,516 --> 00:26:17,636 Speaker 1: is that multiplied many, many, many times creates a relationship 491 00:26:17,636 --> 00:26:19,156 Speaker 1: because it allows people to see each other, they know 492 00:26:19,276 --> 00:26:22,036 Speaker 1: each other, and they have by put down any preconceptions 493 00:26:22,076 --> 00:26:25,436 Speaker 1: they had and then work on projects together and build relationships. 494 00:26:25,756 --> 00:26:28,836 Speaker 1: Something as simple and as loosely formal as that could 495 00:26:28,916 --> 00:26:31,236 Speaker 1: be one of the pathways forward, as well as a 496 00:26:31,276 --> 00:26:34,036 Speaker 1: whole bunch of other things that they used in both 497 00:26:34,036 --> 00:26:36,236 Speaker 1: of the other countries that were referenced before. Are there 498 00:26:36,316 --> 00:26:39,796 Speaker 1: kind of takeaways for those listening to this things people 499 00:26:39,916 --> 00:26:42,836 Speaker 1: individuals can do to kind on their own to further 500 00:26:43,396 --> 00:26:45,876 Speaker 1: some of the things you've talked about. Well, honestly, it's 501 00:26:45,916 --> 00:26:49,756 Speaker 1: not going to be done unless individuals do it. Whether 502 00:26:49,996 --> 00:26:53,516 Speaker 1: the government can organize it. The government is not a person. 503 00:26:53,916 --> 00:26:57,156 Speaker 1: Government's made up of individual people. And so yeah, you 504 00:26:57,276 --> 00:27:00,356 Speaker 1: can do everything. The most important thing is to begin 505 00:27:00,396 --> 00:27:03,356 Speaker 1: to see other people as they are and who they are, 506 00:27:03,916 --> 00:27:07,276 Speaker 1: as fellow human beings, and not see them racially, and 507 00:27:07,436 --> 00:27:10,996 Speaker 1: not judge them according to race, creed, color, sexual orientation, 508 00:27:11,076 --> 00:27:15,836 Speaker 1: a nation of origin. And to imbibe the notion that 509 00:27:15,956 --> 00:27:18,196 Speaker 1: we all come to the table of democracy as equals, 510 00:27:18,756 --> 00:27:22,836 Speaker 1: and we share opportunity and we share responsibility. That very 511 00:27:22,876 --> 00:27:25,356 Speaker 1: simple way of living your life every day will changes 512 00:27:25,356 --> 00:27:29,196 Speaker 1: the world dramatically. It just will. Thank you very much, 513 00:27:29,316 --> 00:27:35,236 Speaker 1: You're welcome, Thank you. As William Faulkner wrote, the past 514 00:27:35,436 --> 00:27:39,276 Speaker 1: is never dead. It's not even past. Spooky but true. 515 00:27:39,596 --> 00:27:42,716 Speaker 1: It's funny, isn't it not funny? Ha ha, but funny? 516 00:27:42,836 --> 00:27:46,396 Speaker 1: Weird that when you hear people talk about the importance 517 00:27:46,476 --> 00:27:50,916 Speaker 1: of a collective reckoning with America's legacy of systemic oppression 518 00:27:50,956 --> 00:27:54,396 Speaker 1: of black and brown people, those people are more often 519 00:27:54,436 --> 00:27:57,756 Speaker 1: than not black and brown themselves. But they're not the 520 00:27:57,836 --> 00:28:01,516 Speaker 1: ones doing the oppressing. They're not the ones responsible for 521 00:28:01,596 --> 00:28:05,836 Speaker 1: this legacy or benefiting from it. Today. I'm grateful to them, 522 00:28:06,036 --> 00:28:08,956 Speaker 1: of course, but white people need to take up this 523 00:28:09,236 --> 00:28:12,236 Speaker 1: mantle if this country can hope to achieve the promise 524 00:28:12,436 --> 00:28:17,116 Speaker 1: of equal opportunity for all. Like any other country, America 525 00:28:17,196 --> 00:28:20,236 Speaker 1: needs to have a true understanding of her own history 526 00:28:20,476 --> 00:28:26,116 Speaker 1: and the legacy of that history today. Solvable is a 527 00:28:26,196 --> 00:28:30,716 Speaker 1: collaboration between Pushkin Industries and the Rockefeller Foundation, with production 528 00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:34,836 Speaker 1: by Laura Hyde, Hester Kant, Laura Sheeter, and Ruth Barnes 529 00:28:34,916 --> 00:28:38,756 Speaker 1: from Chalk and Blade. Pushkin's executive producer is Neia LaBelle, 530 00:28:39,156 --> 00:28:43,316 Speaker 1: Research by Sheer, Vincent, engineering by Jason Gambrel and the 531 00:28:43,396 --> 00:28:48,116 Speaker 1: Great Folks at GSI Studios. Original music composed by Pascal 532 00:28:48,236 --> 00:28:52,676 Speaker 1: Wise and special thanks to Maggie Taylor, Heather Fine, Julia Barton, 533 00:28:53,036 --> 00:28:57,196 Speaker 1: Carly Mgliori, Jacob Weisberg, and Malcolm Gladwell. You can learn 534 00:28:57,276 --> 00:29:02,196 Speaker 1: more about solving Today's biggest problems at Rockefeller Foundation dot org, 535 00:29:02,476 --> 00:29:06,316 Speaker 1: slash solvable. I'm Mave Higgins. Now goost solve it.